Trick R Treat: Fitness Myths That Refuse To Die

Start with the noise and jokes, stay for the clarity. We’re taking a scalpel to the health and fitness myths people keep running into —from GLP-1 panic to the 6 pm food curfew —and giving you the simple playbook that actually holds up. First up: GLP-1s like Wegovy and Ozempic don’t “melt muscle.” Rapid weight loss on a low-protein diet does. If your appetite goes down and you eat less of the same low-protein meals, you risk losing lean mass. 

The fix is straightforward: keep protein high, strength train 2 to 3 times per week, and add fibre so you can stick to the plan.

Next, we crack the late-night eating myth. Calories at 9 pm are still calories. The real problem is behaviour: TV, wine, snacks, and decision fatigue. Some people even adhere better to more evening carbs when total calories are matched. Use a time window if it helps curb the 9 pm spiral, but don’t let a clock bully you. Then we take on sugar “addiction.” Your brain lights up with sugar, but it also lights up with hugs. That’s not the clinical definition of addiction. Ultra-palatable foods are engineered to be easy to overeat. The practical move is less demonising and more structured: protein-forward meals, fibre for fullness, treats without moral drama, and fewer opportunities to mindlessly graze.

We also address fears of insulin and fructose. 

No, you can’t store fat in a chronic calorie deficit because insulin “traps” it there. Fructose in fruit is not a poison; context and total energy matter. 

Spot reduction? Still a myth. Crunches build ab endurance, not selective fat loss. You’ll get a slimmer waist with a steady calorie deficit, lifting to keep muscle, and movement you can repeat all week. Breakfast myths fade too: your metabolism never shuts off, and meal frequency doesn’t stoke anything special. 

Finally, we wind down with a tight review of Trick' R Treat, a cult Halloween favourite whose rules are actually memorable: wear a costume, respect the jack-o’-lantern, and check your sweets. If only diet advice were that tidy. Until then, here’s what is: energy balance, protein, fibre, strength training, steps, and sleep. 

Enjoyed this? Follow, rate, and share with a friend who loves a good myth takedown. 

With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully "Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life."

Expect Foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life's daily rot. 

This weekly audio & video expansion on the world-famous 'The Daily (ish) Rot' email and video ramblings also includes: 

Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet Advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes (short and to the point)
Narcissistic wisdom. 

WHO THE FU*K ARE WE?

Howdy,

I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach (not a life coach) who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude towards exercise and nutrition! 

Empowering You to give the middle finger to your yo-yo diet and half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days! 

Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits? 

Only to start the same rotten cycle again?

YOUR COMPLIMENTARY 30 DAY DIET KICK-UP-THE-ARSER 

Youtube
Instagram
Facebook
Twitter 

Transcript

Casual Relaunch And Halloween Banter

SPEAKER_04 0:00

They're noisy. Next door. I'm assuming they're watching this, so if you don't mind. Keep it down.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 0:12

Oh, that's all I can hear.

unknown 0:14

Shh.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

Oh, I can use my arrow. In session. Okay, that's better. I can use my arrows.

SPEAKER_04 0:19

How are we looking on the camera?

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Good? Yep.

SPEAKER_04 0:21

It looks better though, doesn't it? I think.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Are we are we?

SPEAKER_04 0:24

In terms of having the background, it looks better. It looks a little bit more professional.

unknown 0:30

Right.

SPEAKER_04 0:30

We can worry less about the curtains and the light streaming in.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

I never really worried about any at all. Oh, I did. Oh right, okay.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

Oh, I worried. Oh, I lost sleep over it. This is quite intense. It is.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

It's a bit too intimate for my liking. I like there being space between.

SPEAKER_04 0:49

This is new.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

Hello.

SPEAKER_04 0:50

We're just trying something out. This is a very casual episode.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

Legs are touching.

SPEAKER_04 0:55

Happy Halloween.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

Halloween.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

No, it's Halloween.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

It's Halloween.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

Happy Halloween.

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Why?

SPEAKER_04 1:02

You tell me.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

No, it's Halloween.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

Halloween. That's how they were saying it in Trick-A-Treat, the film we were all reviewing today.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Oh. Well, that's a spoiler already, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:17

Stateside. Canadians, they all they all say Halloween. There's an O in there for some reason.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Not all. The news reporter said Halloween Halloween. Yeah. But the other guy said Halloween.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Are you sure?

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Right. Oh.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

He's wanting our Julie Norton.

SPEAKER_04 1:32

Sorry about that.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

You're wrong.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

So they don't all say it.

SPEAKER_03 1:35

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

A lot of them say it. Halloween.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

But not all.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

Anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Right, who are you?

SPEAKER_04 1:41

Pushable health. Pushable health. Oh god. Pushable health. I'm Ben. I'm Ben. No, sorry. She's Fiona.

SPEAKER_03 1:53

And I'm Ben. And he's Ben.

SPEAKER_04 1:56

It's not for effect. It's not, honestly, it's not for effect. It's not.

SPEAKER_03 2:01

Corgan.

SPEAKER_04 2:02

She's Fiona.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

And he's Ben.

SPEAKER_04 2:04

And this is pushable health.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

Pushing your health from the poses of life.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

Yeah, nice. What do we go for? Is it the yo-yo diet and the half-assed excise routine? Or is it the finding the form of exercising the stomach? Which one do you prefer?

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Half-arse diet.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

Okay. So what we do here at Push Well Health is we help you. Empower you. To get rid of. Stop.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Maybe just maybe I've preferred the other one.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

I should probably know this. Empowering you to stop yo-yo dieting. No, oh my god. I've genuinely forgot it. Where's my phone? It's out there.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Just do the other one.

SPEAKER_04 2:52

We stop yo-yo dieters. And we stop the half-assed exercise in just 30 days. Something along those lines. Or helping you, empowering you, find a form of excise that you can stomach, ideally twice a week, and a diet that you can stick to for longer than 10 minutes. Could be five minutes, could be 15 minutes. 10 works, isn't it? 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

10's a good round number.

SPEAKER_04 3:20

That's what we do.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Good. That's what you do.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Yes. Yes. It's 99.9% me. And you just do these. This is long, isn't it? Very reducing. But this is fine. This is fine, isn't it? You're allowed to have these intros if you talk about what you do. Who you're trying to help.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Well, yeah, it's it's making me feel a lot more closer to you now since your legs are touching. Makes me feel more involved.

SPEAKER_04 3:43

I'm not too sure I could sit here for two hours.

unknown 3:46

What?

SPEAKER_04 3:47

The last episode was just over two hours.

SPEAKER_02 3:49

I'm not sitting like this for two hours. You make all shite.

SPEAKER_04 3:51

Right. That's too big. Okay. Okay. I will have a random bald Canadian at some point before 2030 record an intro and an outro.

SPEAKER_03 4:06

Oh you said that before, yes.

SPEAKER_04 4:07

But until then, we'll just keep doing this.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Yes. Er what we're doing today, Ben? What we're talking about.

SPEAKER_04 4:12

Myths.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

Oh. What myths?

SPEAKER_04 4:14

Trick or treat. Oh. I haven't thought of the episode title.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Why trick or treat? Is this myth a trick or a treat?

SPEAKER_04 4:21

Halloween.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Oh, what gave that away?

SPEAKER_04 4:24

I don't know. Sorry, I'm thirsty.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

What are you dressed up as?

unknown 4:34

Lovely.

SPEAKER_04 4:35

That's refreshing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Yes, it's the cop, Ben. It's the cop that makes it refreshing. It's a pumpkin. What are you dressed up as today, Ben? Please. I'm confused. You've got ghouls on your head and a few bats.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

Yeah. I've got this spooky polo on.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Yeah, that is that is nightmarish, to be fair.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

Oh, I'm sorry. This was purchased by my nan.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Well. And your pajamas, not trousers. So Batman goes, spooky top.

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Just okay, now it's dragging. Jack of all. Now it's dragging. Now we need to move on.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Jack. Jack of all.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

We're trying something new, aren't we?

SPEAKER_02 5:16

More jobs?

SPEAKER_04 5:17

Excuse me. This is the the relaunch, the re-re-re-re-re-relaunch. Is it? Of yes, we I do this every few months, like every episode. And then we just relaunch.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

Oh gosh. I didn't realise that.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

There's a lot of talking from you.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:38

Yeah, lots of talking.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

We don't like that.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

I'm the talent, so I'm trying to conserve my energy. Aren't I? We've had this discussion. So I thought, because a lot of the episodes we've done recently have been based on MNU. So they're a bit more serious. We were trying to take them seriously.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

But now it's back.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

This is just this is regular push-ball health. This is not in association with MNU. Even though I am soon to be an MNU evidence-based practitioner.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Ooh, extremely.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

We might touch upon a couple of controversial topics on this episode. So that's separate. This is just pushbull health. Push poor health.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

Pushing your health and pulse of life.

SPEAKER_04 6:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 6:21

You were talking a lot. I was getting you to read out a lot of information. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

And I was doing it very reluctantly.

SPEAKER_04 6:27

It was so boring. So boring.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

I hated it.

SPEAKER_04 6:30

The irony, as I said before, I started to press record. Is that a lot of those clips were you just droning on about vitamins and micronutrients? Dosages. Just so boring. Oh, the mouse is gone.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

That's just fair.

SPEAKER_04 6:49

So boring. But they got a lot of the time they got a lot of for for us anyway, we're still we're still trying to get the views. But they got a lot of views. Compared to me sitting on the sofa talking about really interesting topics, not just making them up on the spa. We're getting sometimes double triple your videos with you just droning on, we're getting sometimes double triple the views.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Well, what can I say? I've got a lovely voice.

SPEAKER_04 7:14

But they were just boring, weren't they? They were really boring.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Not really.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

We got stuck in this middle ground.

SPEAKER_03 7:19

Yes, where you did not.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

I was doing a lot.

SPEAKER_03 7:22

No, you weren't. I do everything.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

I do pretty much everything. But we we we're getting stuck in this middle ground. There's other people that will talk about certain subjects and topics a lot more in depth. And are experts. You're not.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

I am not. And I never said I was. And I don't want to be, ever.

SPEAKER_04 7:41

Hence why I get you to talk about some of this stuff. Because I I didn't want to sit there for an hour going, right, that's right, vitamin D. Okay, so the dosages of vitamin D. Oh God. Oh God. Sorry, is that are you okay?

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Yes, shall we start with the episode? Yes, I know. I'm just trying to preface what we're doing.

SPEAKER_04 8:00

I'm trying to preface it's not woes. No, you can't keep no, I'm not having it. This isn't woes. This isn't woes. This is, I'm describing I haven't been told I'm describing the new direction of the show. We're just trying to get the middle ground.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

He's not having it.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

We're trying to get the balance of giving some decent information, evidence-based information. But it not being too boring and structuring it and talking about certain things like we would on a random Tuesday evening. Evening, darling. How's your day been?

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Shit. How's yours?

SPEAKER_04 8:34

Swearing.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Good night. That's not a bad word.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Do you see what I'm trying to get at? Yes. So we need to get a bit more. We're not going to sit there. I'll be honest with you. We are not going to sit there around the table talking about vitamin D. And the dosages and how much you need and how much you need to be outside. It's just not going to happen.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Been there, done that, trialled, tested, didn't like it.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

You seem to be mangy for you, but I do you must you must understand what I'm trying to say. You must agree.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

Yeah, so if the camera was talking off from me.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

If the camera was off, these are the conversations we would have.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

Yeah? Yeah. Does that make sense? Yes. So that's what we're going to do. A little less talking from you, and if you are talking, it will just be having a discussion. Excellent. Not just me going, right, Fiona, next block, read that out for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

No problem.

SPEAKER_04 9:26

Have you finished? I don't even listen as well when you read out.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

I know you don't.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

I have read the information. I do know the information. Sorry, I've just come round. What was that? So if I'm bored, what about them? God, I'm uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:49

How are you feeling?

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Okay, right. So some ifs. So we did something similar last year. We did. So this is now an annual thing.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Let me just get it.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

It's still early days, Fiona, but we are we're taking this to the next level. We're taking this to the next level. I'm slightly less distracted. Just slightly. Wow. Okay. Okay, no worries. We'll wait. Okay.

unknown 10:17

Okay, I'm ready.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

This is the awkward part, we have to face each other. It's not good, is it? This is what people do. I I just keep seeing people, unless you're really professional and you and you're around a table.

unknown 10:34

Which we have.

SPEAKER_04 10:35

We've done that before, and that was that was just as bad. A lot of people just sit on sofas like this for hours. Twist their whole body and just go, yeah, absolutely. That sounds fantastic. I just love having this conversation with you. Well, it's been 12 and a half minutes and this hurts. I'm uncomfortable. So I'm not getting it.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

So will we start with mint number one?

SPEAKER_04 10:58

We did something similar, didn't we, Fiona?

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Sorry?

SPEAKER_04 11:01

Last year.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

We did.

SPEAKER_04 11:03

So this is the next this is the next five myths? Yep. We're giving ourselves an hour. An hour off.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Just because this is casual, as you can tell. Just casual. We're just having a good time. We're relaxing. We're just relaxing. We're comfortable. We're feeling good. This was it. This is where it started to really pick up the momentum. Do you agree?

SPEAKER_03 11:24

Right. Common myth, common fitness and nutrition myths that need binin. Very important one, actually, and very relevant to today, I think.

SPEAKER_04 11:34

Okay. Talk into the mic if you can.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

GLP1 drugs cause muscle loss. What is a GLP1 drug, Ben?

SPEAKER_04 11:40

It's a weight loss drug. Oh, such as? Uh Wagovi, Monjaro, Ozempic.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 11:46

Yes?

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Wagavi.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Wagovi.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

Oh, is that what you said? Yeah, that's what I said. Yeah. Oh, I missed that one.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

Or Wagovi.

Myth 1: Do GLP-1 Drugs Cause Muscle Loss?

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Right. So the claim is everyone's panicking that it's empic or wagavi is melting their muscle faster than their waistline.

SPEAKER_04 12:04

Wagovi.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Tell me the reality of that.

SPEAKER_04 12:07

Maybe it is wagovi. Maybe you're right.

SPEAKER_03 12:09

Just tell me the bloody reality.

SPEAKER_04 12:10

So what do you think, Fiona? What do you think?

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Wagovi.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

No, no, about about that.

SPEAKER_03 12:16

No.

unknown 12:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

It's too much of a weight loss in a short space of time. Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:23

So it's the weight loss. So the drugs themselves don't just eat away at your muscle. They help you lose weight. They suppress your appetite. Yes. Which means that you'll lose weight. Some clients that I've trained over the last year or so who have been taking some form of GLP1, they have fallen into the trap of they've lost lots of weight. Great. So they're making progress. But they've fallen into the trap of just eating less of the same diet. So the diet they had before using one of the GLP1s may have not been the best. May have not been balanced. Lacking protein, lacking fiber.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Right. So what have they done then?

SPEAKER_04 13:05

Well, nothing.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Just reduced the protein more.

SPEAKER_04 13:08

Their appetite has dropped. They've lost weight, okay? Appetite's dropped. Calories have dropped. Good. So now they can exercise. Now they can consider exercising. Brilliant. The private Pushwell Health Studio or the Push Well Health app is ready. In you come. But they haven't made any nutritional changes or very limited ones. Protein's still quite low. Fibers low.

SPEAKER_03 13:38

And what's what's what's protein good for?

SPEAKER_04 13:41

Uh muscle mass. Retaining muscle mass. When you're in a calorie deficit, it's good for retaining muscle mass. And that's one of the muscle recovery?

SPEAKER_03 13:49

Yes. If somebody's new to a gym, did need good amounts of protein for muscle recovery?

SPEAKER_04 13:54

Absolutely. Absolutely. You're learning. This is nice.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

I am.

SPEAKER_04 13:58

What's funny?

SPEAKER_03 13:59

So what's serious? So what exactly is it then? What's the reality in a simple sentence?

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 14:08

Yes, we're discussing it, Fiona. Remember, the notes, we're not reading off the notes anymore. The notes are there just to go, oh hang on, sorry, two seconds. Let me have a just have a quick look. But we've moved on.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:19

We're now just having a discussion.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 14:22

Okay. Okay, I'm not used to this. I know. Look at me.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

I'm trying to make it.

SPEAKER_04 14:25

Look me in the eye.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 14:29

My cat's not around, are they?

SPEAKER_03 14:30

Silly hurt.

SPEAKER_04 14:32

Oh god, it's so comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Okay, so.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

Yeah, so did that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 14:37

Yes, it did, Ben.

SPEAKER_04 14:38

So the drugs themselves aren't eating away at your muscle.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Like little gremlin are eating the muscle. No, they're not doing that. No. That's what you'd envisioned though, wouldn't it? That's what you'd envisioned, though, isn't it? Like a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

Yes, I I believe a lot of people think that these drugs. Oh, you take you take uh this is why people are getting what's it called? Ozempic face. Well, Govy butt, exempic, Ozempic bum, butthole.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

I never heard that.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

You know, people are getting quite sunken faces. They lose all the body fat off their faces. Yeah, yeah. And their and their bums are caving in.

SPEAKER_03 15:11

Now Sharon Osborne. She's kind of prime example.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

Yeah, she wasn't looking good.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

She wasn't looking good. But she's older now, wasn't she? Wasn't she in her 70s? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

But she went really.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

She was quite slim anyway, wasn't she?

SPEAKER_03 15:23

Yeah, yeah, but she went very, very gone.

SPEAKER_04 15:24

So yeah, people who are already reasonably slim who are then losing an extra 20 pounds. It's got to go, it's got to be lost from somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 15:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

So did that make sense?

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Yes, it did.

SPEAKER_04 15:38

Okay, explain in one sentence. You explain in one sentence because you're the lay person. You're the sort of person I'm trying to teach and educate.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

It's the rapid weight loss. It's the rapid weight loss, the lack of protein, and not implementing good habits.

SPEAKER_04 15:54

Better habits, yes. Lack of fibre, yeah. Yes. So it's it's the nutritional choices you're making.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

Not the drug. The drug is not making you lose muscle mass.

SPEAKER_03 16:05

So what does the drug do then for me? It just suppresses my appetite.

SPEAKER_04 16:09

Lots we can get into the science, of course, but we're not going to do that today.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Okay.

Hilarious Shallow Hal Ozempic Episode

SPEAKER_04 16:14

We've got an episode, haven't we? On Ozempic.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

We do. Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 16:17

Yes. What was Oh, that was the Shallow Howe one. I think that episode was okay. It was okay. It was fine.

unknown 16:26

Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:27

It was fine.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

I'm very uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_04 16:28

But yes, go listen to that one. What's it called? Um Shallow How Does Does taking Ozempic make you shallow? Or does taking a weight loss drug make you shallow? It's it's very clever. It's very witty.

SPEAKER_03 16:38

I came up with that.

SPEAKER_04 16:39

Shallow how. Bad. Bad feel. Bad feel.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

Oh really offensive. Okay, there you go. Okay, so we're moving on to myth number two. Well, there's there's more there, isn't there? But let's let's keep rolling. Because we've we've just we've just got an hour, so.

Myth 2: Does Eating After 6pm Make You Fat?

SPEAKER_03 16:56

Right, this is one that I actually believed quite significantly, actually. Okay. I was very much like, yep. Yep. And there's another one as well. So eating after six pm makes you fat or your willpower runs out.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

Some would say, Fiona, that I'm a myth buster.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Don't eat after six, your metabolism shuts down, or worse, I've got no willpower at night time.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

You your watchhouse now.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Willpower.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

Metabolism.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Metabolism.

SPEAKER_04 17:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

What did I say? Metabolism.

SPEAKER_04 17:31

God knows.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Your metabolism.

SPEAKER_04 17:33

Yes, that's that's lovely.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 17:34

That's very well said.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

Hit me, baby, with the reality.

SPEAKER_04 17:38

Well, you tell me, Fiona. So why did you think that this 6 pm number time? So you thought that eating on. Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:51

I'm not I'm not using up any energy. So after after 6 pm usually there's no exercise or whatever. I see. So if I get at 9 pm, I'm going to bed straight away. Whereas if I have breakfast at 9am, I've got the whole day to walk to use some of that energy that I've consumed. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 18:07

So you've if you've So eating 800 calories of something at midday compared to 9 pm.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

That 800 calories would just be stored as fat. And it would it would what? Even if you are at say maintenance or if you were in a calorie deficit, if calories were matched, that would just be stored as fat.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

I I'm not sure what what would happen with it, to be fair. I would just happen that somebody something would come in and eat it.

SPEAKER_04 18:33

Look, it's it's fine. Yes, but no, but the the logic is. Oh, I wouldn't say sound, but it makes sense, doesn't it? Yes. Yes, because if you're eating a big meal and then going to bed, your body's not working. It's it's switching off.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

But it is.

SPEAKER_04 18:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:48

We have since learned. Even by just sitting here, we're burning energy. You've told me. Not much.

SPEAKER_04 18:55

Just drop it. There we go. That should be nice. That should be nice. Yeah, yeah, we're sitting here right now. We're burning fat right now.

SPEAKER_03 19:02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

We're in the fat burning zone right now.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

We are. And at night time, when you're sleeping and stuff, you're in your fat burning zone, or are you?

SPEAKER_04 19:14

You'll be burning fat, yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

But you're not in your fat burning zone because you're not awake.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

What's the fat burning zone, Fiona? What we're in now. It's a made-up term, isn't it? Oh. Really? It's a made-up term. Well, it's we've discussed this before. It's the the fat burning zone.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

But going off on tangent.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

So why do where why if I eat late at night like a big meal at just say eight, nine o'clock, I'm absolutely starving the next day. Why is that?

SPEAKER_04 19:43

Depends what the meal is, mate. What's in the meal?

SPEAKER_03 19:46

We last had dinner at what time? Half five yesterday.

SPEAKER_04 19:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 19:48

I'm grand.

SPEAKER_04 19:50

Okay. It was what do we have for dinner? It was reasonably uh potatoes, some veg, chicken. So high protein potatoes are very satiating.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:03

Some fibre from the vegetables.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

I guarantee you, if I'd had the same thing at 9pm last night, I would be starving today.

SPEAKER_04 20:08

Well that that means it's psychological then, doesn't it? But it also depends what you're eating. If you're eating a a packet of Harry Bows at 9 pm and then going to bed, yeah. Go for it. Enjoy it. It's all about balance. But chances are, when you wake up in the morning, hungry.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Right. Any studies on this, Ben?

SPEAKER_04 20:29

Have we answered the question there? We haven't answered the question.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

No, you haven't really told me the reality, actually. You did in a roundabout way.

SPEAKER_04 20:37

Right, yes. Oh, okay. No, that works. Yes, the study. So the study is is about we've discussed something called ego depletion. So the point is calories are the same at 5.59 compared to 6 pm. But behaviourally, a lot of people may have the tendency to overeat in the evening after a long day.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

With a glass of wine.

SPEAKER_04 21:07

If are you more likely to eat a tub of Ben and Jerry's at 9am or 9 p.m.?

SPEAKER_01 21:14

PM.

SPEAKER_04 21:14

Right. Of course. Wine. Are you likely to glug a bottle of wine at 9am or 9 p.m.? Some people do. That's a whole different topic in itself.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

Depends.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

But for the most for the most part. For the most part. Realistically, if someone said to you, Oh God, I just saw.

SPEAKER_03 21:28

It's PM because it's associated with relaxing.

SPEAKER_04 21:32

Right. So if someone said to you, Oh my god, I glugged a bottle of wine yesterday. What time was that? Oh 9am.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

I'm just like, yeah, but you've got the whole day to do. You have to cook for dinner.

SPEAKER_04 21:43

You went to work? Yes. Oh, okay. If they said 9 pm, you go, yeah, being there, eh? Yeah. Long day. You know what Tuesdays are like?

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

Yeah. You wouldn't question it. No. No.

SPEAKER_03 21:58

Probably not.

SPEAKER_04 21:58

So it's it's the decisions that people are making. It's not a physiological thing. Calories are calories.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

But then I suppose between nine to five, if you're working, your brain is more active. Not active, but your brain is more occupied because you're working, you're more distracted, you're not focused on food, you're not focusing on your cravings, all of that as well. Yes, that yeah, that helps, yeah. So at night time, you've got nothing really to entertain you other than what's on on the TV.

SPEAKER_04 22:22

Some people might just snack, they might just graze throughout the day, so they don't eat proper meals. Breakfast is a breakfast bar, lunch is a soup, maybe. They're not eating properly, they're not having they're not having a breakfast, they're not having a proper lunch. They're just snacking. So they get to the end of the day, they're they're starving.

unknown 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

They're starving, they've had a long day. They have their meal, it's not enough. The meal is that was okay. But what else have we got?

unknown 22:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 22:50

The ego depletion was about people's willpower will deplete. Roy Bammaster, Bimaster, Bad Roy, Roy something. There was this thing about how your willpower will actually deplete. And that's the reason why people, as the day goes on, are more likely to overconsume. That's not really a thing. It makes sense, doesn't it? It does make sense. But it's not physiologically, it's not a thing. You don't you don't have a willpower meter that just that is just going down physiologically. You still have the decision, you still make the decision.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

Yeah, but then if you're not as focused on something, then the likelihood is you'll make that bad decision. Oh, you're a little gremlins already?

SPEAKER_04 23:40

Yes. Yes. This is quite an easy one, isn't it? It's not really logically, once you've moved past the fact that calories don't change at 6 pm compared to 5.59, then you start thinking, oh, okay, so maybe it's my my habits, my lifestyle, my environment, the behaviours that I tend to engage with after 6 pm, after a long day at work, after a long week. Makes more sense. It's not really it's not a bombshell, is it?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

No. So to take home from this, it's not the clock that's making you fat. It's your 9 pm meltdown. That's what you said on that. I like that. Is that what it says? I quite like that.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

No, who do you think said that? Do you think I wrote that?

SPEAKER_03 24:26

Oh, I quite liked that. Okay. But I do like, I do like them to be fair.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

Oh, there is some studies here.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Yes, there is. Right. So for et al. 2011 says uh did a study and they ate most carbs in the evenings. Uh no.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

Right, sorry. So yes, they they took two groups of people.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:44

Both groups overweight. One ate the the majority of their carbs earlier in the day. The other group ate most of their carbs later in the day. Right. So maybe after 6 p.m. Yes? Yeah. The group that ate more of their carbs in the evening had better adherence, lower hunger, improved leptin and insulin sensitivity, despite calories being matched. Oh, and what's just one study, of course, but.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Hmm. Interesting. Okay. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_04 25:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 25:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:23

There is another study there talking about circadian rhythm. Yeah. And how you should maybe.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

That's Roddick Collins at all.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

Yeah, do you want to read that out quickly? Very quick, let's move on.

SPEAKER_03 25:30

I can't really see it.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

Oh, okay. Right. But in terms of your circadian rhythm, it may make sense for some people when it comes to time restrictive eating. To eat within certain windows. So for example, if you are eating, if you only eat all of your calories between 8 a.m. and 6pm, yes, that might be more in line with your circadian rhythm, but it might just make sense. Because if you if your cutoff is 6 pm, then you're okay, aren't you? You're good to go. You haven't got to worry about the 6 pm. You've eaten all your calories. So you haven't got to worry about overindulging, binging, over consuming.

SPEAKER_03 26:16

Right, okay, now I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

Eating the Ben and Jerry's. Because 6 pm is the cutoff.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

Yes, you've had all of your 2,000 calories, say, in that day.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

Yes, for example, yeah. You might have had a nice nutritious breakfast, had a good hearty lunch, had an earlier dinner, and you're good to go.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

So then the peop so are people who are more likely just having 500 calories, say, between 8 to 6.

SPEAKER_04 26:42

500 calories.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Just say.

SPEAKER_04 26:43

Right.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

And then they overconsume the 1000 they have 1,500 calories in the evening, but then they're the ones more likely to overconsume that calorie intake because they're starved.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

Potentially, yes. Yes. The point is it shouldn't make a difference for your goals. Yes. Whatever they may be.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 27:02

For weight loss, for fat loss, that's what a lot of people's goals are, aren't they? Yes. If calories are matched, you can eat whenever the hell you want. If your goal is to lose weight. If you're in a calorie deficit, you can eat 2,000 calories at 8 a.m. And if you maintain that deficit for the rest of the day, you will lose body fat.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

Hmm. But not 2,000 calories at 8 a.m., 4 p.m. and then 8 p.m.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

Hey, if you're if you've got, yeah, if you're if you're a big person. If you can get into a calorie deficit and still eat 6,000 calories, lucky you. Well done.

SPEAKER_03 27:41

Alright. Next myth.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Is that it, Fiona?

SPEAKER_03 27:44

Yes, that's it. That was fine. It was fine.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

Oh, this is a big one.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

This is a big one. And we have spoken about this before, haven't we?

SPEAKER_04 27:50

We have, so let's not go too crazy about it.

Myth 3: Is Sugar Additive?

SPEAKER_03 27:52

I think this is very this is um schools and whatnot are quite big on this. Well, not myth, but yeah. Schools? Schools, yeah. Okay. Sugar is addictive. Oh the claim sugar lights up your brain like cocaine.

SPEAKER_04 28:09

Oh, we've heard that before, haven't we?

SPEAKER_03 28:12

So just to give a little example, a little definition of what exact what addiction is. So this has come from the American Psychiatric Association. It involves compulsive use of a substance despite the harmful consequences, often with tolerance and withdrawal. Tolerance needing more to get the same effect, withdrawal, physical or psychological symptoms when stopping. Hit me, baby. That sounds good. Tell me, what's the reality? Well, as always, let's start with studies in there.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

Let's start with you, Fiona.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

I would never I would never said that sugar was addictive, no. But I do think it does have an impact on people's activity level, of course.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

So it's behaviour again.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Yes, it's behavioural.

SPEAKER_04 28:54

So yes, sugar, physiologically, is not addictive. How often have you had the urge to go into the kitchen, grab the bag of sugar?

SPEAKER_03 29:04

No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_04 29:06

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

I have it right now.

SPEAKER_04 29:09

How often have we done that? Come into the lounge, grab some spoons, and just tucked in.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Did a bag of sugar.

SPEAKER_04 29:16

If it was the same thing for heroin or for alcohol, it's not happening, is it? If you've got that in your house and you are an addict and you are addicted to that substance, and it's in the cupboard and you can see it. You know it's there. You're not just gonna take it or leave it.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Hmm. Yes. But I think what people think is, is because they think it's addictive because they want that sweet treat, don't they? And they constantly want that sweet treat. So they want that.

SPEAKER_04 29:50

It's the dopamine, the old dopamine hit. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:52

That's yeah, you feel you feel better after it. But then I always think that it's associated with because we'd have we'd have we'd have a snack. We'd have treats, wouldn't we? Like dessert basically in the evenings. Oh, treats, a bit of chocolate or a bit of chocolate or a crisps or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 30:06

Lots of treats in Canada, wasn't it, Fiona?

SPEAKER_03 30:08

There was too many treats. Treaty. There was too many treaties.

SPEAKER_04 30:10

We went to Canada in a camper van with my mum. And it was as terrible as you'd expect.

SPEAKER_03 30:15

No, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

Oh, Canada. Beautiful country. Beautiful country. The experience in the camper van, tough.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Ben's mum likes treats.

SPEAKER_04 30:23

Treaties.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

Treaties. Lots of treaties. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she likes her 11s.

SPEAKER_04 30:28

Oh, Canada have got lots of treats.

SPEAKER_03 30:29

Yes. Yeah. So we're not used to it, are we? All these treaties.

SPEAKER_04 30:33

I like a treat.

SPEAKER_03 30:34

I like a treat too. But one per day is good.

SPEAKER_04 30:37

But it was, yeah. Yeah, treats.

SPEAKER_03 30:39

But it was treats when we were driving, it was treats when we pulled up, but it was treats at 11. It was treats after breakfast.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

Well, I suppose you've got to get through that experience, haven't you? You've got to find a way to get through the experience of being in the camper man.

SPEAKER_03 30:48

Would you say would you say your mum is addicted to sugar ben?

SPEAKER_04 30:51

No, I don't think so. No. No. Just likes a treaty.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Can't take it seriously when you're talking about treaties. Okay, anyways, what were we talking about?

SPEAKER_04 31:03

Sugar is addictive.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Yes, no, it's not really addictive. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

But the the first line there. What was the first line about how it lights up the same?

SPEAKER_03 31:12

Sugar lights up your brain like cocaine.

SPEAKER_04 31:14

Yes, right. Yes, so does so does hugging.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Yes, I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 31:19

So does being happy. So does when you stroke Donald. Not for me. The opposite effect. But when you stroke Donald the cat, those pathways light up.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Is hugging addictive? I don't think it is. But then again, sugar's not addicted to.

SPEAKER_04 31:40

Seeing a child, people like people like children. They hug a child. That could be a problem if you're addicted to children.

SPEAKER_03 31:47

Right. Anyways, moving on.

SPEAKER_04 31:50

But you're not though, are you, Fiona? You you love kitties. Oh, you love them. You love the children.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

Yes, I do. Are you addicted to them? No, it's lovely to give them back.

SPEAKER_04 31:58

Okay. Who's that? And also, and also, when it comes to treaties, sugary treaties, a lot of these sugary treaties also have a good amount of fat in them. Sometimes there's even more fat than sugar. For a lot of these pastries and these cookies, there's a lot of fat rammed into them. So how do you explain that? I don't know. If it's just the sugar that you're addicted to, there's more fat in them.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_04 32:34

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

But then again, it's like so people always associate being addicted to sugar with being addicted to chocolate. That type of stuff, like candy.

SPEAKER_04 32:48

Right, yep, sugar, yeah, some sugar in there, yeah. But you might have some fat as well.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

But you wouldn't say that somebody's addicted to Leucosid or lemonade. You you would with Coke, because Coke has that taste, a nice kind of taste to it. But these but lemonade, full fat lemonade, who do you see sinking lemonade? They're full of sugar.

SPEAKER_04 33:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

Cornflakes full of sugar.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

That's a very blanket term, Lofiona, because I'm sure there is many people that just love Leucasade and they just love lemonade. Lemonade is what I'm saying. Yes, and they will drink litres of it a day.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Oh no, I don't think it's a little bit more than a little bit.

SPEAKER_04 33:16

And then if you ask them in what setting, if they wanted to lose weight, right, so let's you know let's have a quick look. Quick snapshot of your your an average day in the life of you. Yeah, so I drink four litres of lemonade a day. Okay. That's that's a lot of calories. I just don't like lemonade. Yeah, I'm addicted to sugar. Right, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Yeah, but you're not.

SPEAKER_04 33:40

So if you're if you're drinking and consuming a lot of foods that are high in sugar, and then you remove those foods, yeah, people will talk about having withdrawal from these foods. So it feels like you are withdrawing from drugs or alcohol. Get the shakes, you get, oh my god, this is all you can think about is eating sugar. It's a thing. I'm not saying that people don't have these symptoms and they don't have these struggles when they try and remove certain foods from their diet or they try and cut down on certain foods. I'm not saying that. I'm not just saying, oh, well, you're wrong, you're an idiot. Physiologically, no, not addictive. Moral. I believe these people. I've got many clients who have said, yeah, I'm addicted to sugar. I just can't stop eating this food.

SPEAKER_03 34:29

And what is your response when to say that?

SPEAKER_04 34:31

Well, you have to then you're a moron. You have to be polite and you have to then slowly start educating. Go, right, well, let's uh what can we do? What what small changes can we start making? Do you feel like you could cut down on that food? Not remove it completely, but if you if you feel like you're overconsuming on that food or you struggle to to cut down calories in certain aspects, or can we start adding some more food to your diet? Here's some more protein, here's some more fibre. They start adding some more calories first. And then what is the well more sorry, more foods. Adding start adding more foods whilst trying to reduce in certain other aspects. To then if your goal is to lose body fat, try and get you into a calorie deficit. Try it into maintenance. Because you might be in well, yeah, well, you might be in a in a a fifth a 1,500 surplus most of the time. So let's just try and bring that down. Not here's a day here's a thousand calorie deficit, get into that, enjoy. Let's just bring it down.

SPEAKER_03 35:28

So when you start introducing and reducing, so when you start introducing, say the protein, something that's going to keep you fuller for longer, all of that and reduce, what is the results immediately? Well not immediately, but are they fuller for do they feel fuller and that they don't need to have that sugary the sugary snack? Or are they still like, oh, I'm still craving it?

SPEAKER_04 35:49

Or it takes time. Hence why a lot of people don't do it. Hence why a lot of people will go, right, that that sounds that sounds long. That sounds like I've really got to start changing my habits for the long term. Potentially, yes, yeah, some of them. Ugh, like six weeks red. Okay, yeah. Yeah, you can do that, but you you'll be miserable and you'll be re reducing your calories dramatically. And I'm not sure you'll be able to sustain that for the long term. For some people, going into more of an aggressive diet for three weeks, four weeks, if you've got a lot of weight to lose, makes sense, and having bouts of that. Doing that, maintenance, go again, maintenance that works, but at the same time, you need to start putting in drip feeding in habits and behaviour change that they can then maintain for the long term at the same time. Anything else there, Fierina? There's a lot, isn't there?

SPEAKER_03 36:54

There's a lot when it comes to studies here, Ben, as well.

SPEAKER_04 36:56

Please, Benton, that's a good one, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 36:58

So Benton from Benton in 2010 wrote there is no support from the human literature for the hypothesis that shocrus or sugar may be physically addictive or that addiction to sugar plays a role in eating disorders. This has been coming from the clinical nutrition.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

Okay. Okay. There's a few doctors there that we've got.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Lustig.

SPEAKER_04 37:20

Yes. Uh yeah. Grund Grundy. For some reason I always say, look, you have to be careful. I don't know why, but this is this is the new stage Fiona. We're just calling out charlatans. Quackery.

unknown 37:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:32

If these people are making these claims, these people are making these claims. But so that's okay. That for some reason I was like, oh my god, our podcast is seen by like five people. Dr. Grundy's gonna come after me. No, not yet. Not yet. I look forward to it when it happens.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

But is it evidence-based, Ben?

SPEAKER_04 37:49

What these guys are saying. Yes, but also if these people are saying this, it's when people aren't saying this. If you say, this person said this and they didn't say that, or you've misinterpreted what they've said, that's a problem, isn't it? Or you're lying. Yes. You're saying this person did this and they said this and it's a lie, then that's a problem. That's when you might be getting sued. But if you're just if you're just repeating, if you're just parroting what this person said and you've and then you have your opinion on it, what's wrong with that? So that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 38:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 38:25

Right. Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Did you read any of that? Did I read any of it? I read it twice, Ben.

SPEAKER_04 38:29

No, I'm saying what some of these doctors will say. So you got someone like Dr. Hyman.

SPEAKER_03 38:33

I like Grundy.

SPEAKER_04 38:34

Okay, start with Grundy then.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

Dr. Grundy and his famous grapes are sugar bombs, should only eat fruits in seasons like apes do. He was 80 pounds overweight from sugar, I'm assuming.

SPEAKER_04 38:44

That's what I wrote, yes. Yeah, so yeah, he that he uh what was it, Dr. Mike. There's a podcast with Dr. Mike. And he yeah, it's it's it's done the rounds where he talks about how grapes are sugar bombs. Okay, and then he compares he he effectively said, I don't the doctor, Dr. Mike said, Right, okay, but when it comes to if you're advising parents on on what to feed their children, would you say that they are better off trying to get them to eat more grapes compared to a Hershey's chocolate bar? And he was like, Oh, well, it's yeah, pretty much the same phone because it's got the same amount of sugar in.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

Per whatever the grammar was. Well, it's it's the same amount of sugar, so pretty much the same phone. And he was serious. Like he said it with like a really smug, grotesque tone. This guy's a doctor. But that's his opinion. Grapes are sugar bombs. Sugar bombs. Like it's rough, isn't it? It's rough.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

Yeah. Well yeah, yeah, high in sugar, to be fair. But uh but it's fruit. It's good for you.

SPEAKER_04 39:50

It's got a lot of good stuff in it, yeah. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

And it doesn't have the fat associated with the chocolate bears.

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Potentially, yeah. Yeah. Nothing wrong with Hershey's. Nothing wrong if you like a Hershey's, go for it.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

And to be fair, all of these chocolates and stuff, they've got a whole host of additive uh what do you call them to additives. Additives.

SPEAKER_04 40:07

Yeah, that's on top of it.

SPEAKER_03 40:10

So they make them moorish, don't they? They make you want more.

SPEAKER_04 40:13

You are more likely to overconsume on Hershey's chocolate bars than you are grapes, I imagine.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Yeah, no, no, grapes.

SPEAKER_04 40:19

You can get for you for per calorie, you can get quite a few grapes in. They may be sugar bombs, but you can get you can get your calories worth of grapes. Yes, he was overweight.

unknown 40:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:31

Sometimes this is by 70 pounds. Sometimes not just the pounds. That's absolutely fine. We're not we're not demonising that. But some of these people across the board, and this is this is human nature, if you get results by doing something, and then at the same time you have a platform that you can shout about to people. If I if I lost lots of weight and it was through the carnivore diet, I could do the same thing. And then I had more people going, oh my god, this guy, he talks a lot of sense. And I was just talking about the carnivore diet, and I was then saying this is the only way to lose weight, it's very black and white with these people for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Right, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 41:07

Sometimes they do still sort of say stuff like, yeah, you try and move a bit more. Try and have a overall, you know, a minimally processed diet. Stuff like that. Exercise if you can. So it's not it's not all complete quackery. What's are we are we okay?

SPEAKER_03 41:22

It's the mouse, it keeps because it doesn't work undertain.

SPEAKER_04 41:25

Jesus Christ. Okay, this is fine for you. This is we're just testing it. We're just testing it. But this setup is absurd. So we need to work on it.

SPEAKER_03 41:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 41:32

But it's fine because it's casual.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Anyways, that back to Mr. Grundy.

SPEAKER_04 41:35

Look at you. Right, you need to look at look at me when I'm talking to you. Right, so we need to get this sorted for the next one.

SPEAKER_03 41:42

This is better because I took my headphones out. Because you're sat right down. When was this? Just five minutes ago.

SPEAKER_04 41:47

Oh dear, okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:48

That's right here ideal.

SPEAKER_04 41:51

But you're right here.

SPEAKER_03 41:52

I can hear you.

SPEAKER_04 41:54

Shall I get back to it? Shall I get back to it?

SPEAKER_03 41:56

Yes, get back to it.

SPEAKER_04 41:57

But this needs to we need to work on it.

SPEAKER_03 42:00

Anyways, go on. Right, what was I saying?

SPEAKER_04 42:02

Talking to them, mate. You're putting me off my flight. Grundy. Grundy. Yes. What were we saying about Grundy?

SPEAKER_03 42:08

He was overweight.

SPEAKER_04 42:09

Right, yeah. So the carnivore diet.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Carnival diet.

SPEAKER_04 42:11

If I was overweight, I did the carnivore diet.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 42:14

I had a following. People started to oh, this guy, it talks sense. Oh, should I write a book? I'm gonna write a book. Oh my god, life changing. I lost loads of weight. All my health markers improved. I was near death. You saved my life. And I'm making lots of money. And I've got lots of supporters and followers who are supporting me based on me saying the carnivore diet is the only diet for you. And if you follow any other diet, it will kill you. And if you're overweight, if you feel like crap, if you've got medical conditions, it's because you're eating, you're over consuming calories. Specifically, sugar. Too much sugar. Yeah, you're right. I got great results. I cut all the sugar out, I reduced my calories, I just ate meat and eggs, minimal vegetables, and I feel fantastic. Okay, fine. It's hard to argue with that, isn't it? Makes sense. Yes. Yes. But grapes, sugar bombs. Rough.

SPEAKER_03 43:20

You're not a sugar junkie, you're just stuck in a biscuit and boredom of.

SPEAKER_04 43:25

Oh, that's I like that. You know that's chat GBT.

SPEAKER_03 43:28

Yeah, so anyways, tell me about Hyman. You did you talked about Well, yeah, we're running, we're running out of time then. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 43:34

Dr. Hyman, yeah, food is medicine.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Well, yeah, you need to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_04 43:39

Eating for energy, eating for fuel. There's there's lots of terms.

SPEAKER_03 43:43

Nutrients to feel better.

SPEAKER_04 43:44

But once again, the whole if he's once again the whole food is medicine is then that means you need to cut out all your sugar. I'm not quite sure about Hyman, I'm not quite sure what other claims he's got, but that's one of them. Some of the advice, as I've just said, is is useful. Yes, is it useful for some people? For for most people, if possible, to eat a mostly plant-based diet. Yeah, probably. Don't eat too much sugar. Yeah. Yeah. Ideally. But it's the demonizing of it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 44:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 44:21

It's it's the demonizing, and then it's saying that sugar and these types of foods are having a a unique effect on your body. Which we'll get to in a second with Robert Lustig. Dr. Robert Lustig.

SPEAKER_02 44:34

Oh, where's he?

SPEAKER_04 44:36

Oh, is he not on the original notes? Did you update the did you download the Oh Lustig? Right. Yep. Okay. There you go, Fiona. Well, you know, you've you've not said a lot this episode, which is fine. This is nice, but the energy.

SPEAKER_03 44:48

Sugar is toxic, poisonous. This is lustic now, not.

SPEAKER_04 44:52

This is Dr. Robert Lustic.

SPEAKER_03 44:53

Sugar is toxic, poisonous. Similar effect on the liver as alcohol. Fruity.

SPEAKER_04 44:59

Yeah, sorry, sorry, fructose. Yeah. This is this is specifically about fructose. Fructose. Not a fan, Robert. He does not like fructose.

SPEAKER_03 45:07

Similar effect on the liver as alcohol. Fruity with energy energy balance.

SPEAKER_04 45:12

Oh, sorry, sorry. Yeah, that's that's my that's my word. He's being fruity with energy balance.

SPEAKER_03 45:18

He's this is why this is easier for you.

Sugar Addiction Claims And Evidence

SPEAKER_04 45:20

Yeah, sorry, that this all makes sense. So he he is, I believe, I believe, he's one of these people that if calories are matched, if you eat sugar, if you eat 3,000 calories of broccoli, if you eat 3,000 calories of table sugar, you will still put on weight based on you eating sugar or a high sugar diet. Anyway, please continue.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Insulin hypothesis?

SPEAKER_04 45:54

Yes, that's fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:56

Implying sugar causes fat gain independent of calories.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

Right, that's what I was just saying, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

In his view, the insulin surge traps fat in cells, meaning you can be in calorie deficit but still gain fat because insulin is keeping energy locked away. So insulin suppresses fat breakdown temporarily. That's its job.

SPEAKER_04 46:18

That's reasonable, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

That's yes. Fat storage only persists when total energy intake exceeds expenditure. The you store fat even in deficit line is physiologically improcessable.

SPEAKER_04 46:32

Yes, there's some A's in there, Fiona. You store fat in deficit.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

In a deficit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:38

Yeah, there's a couple of A's in there, but never mind. Alright.

SPEAKER_03 46:40

That's my little dyslexic brain, Ben.

SPEAKER_04 46:42

Yeah. Well, I've given you I've given you the episode off. You should be fresh.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

I'm not.

SPEAKER_04 46:46

Talk into them. Hi, go on.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

Reading is still an issue from me, Ben.

SPEAKER_04 46:50

Right, this. Okay. Okay. What do you think of that then?

SPEAKER_03 46:54

Sugar's not the enemy.

unknown 46:57

Dr.

SPEAKER_03 46:58

Grundi is.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 47:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 47:00

Oh dear. Oh dear. Sorry about that, Doctor.

SPEAKER_03 47:05

Yeah, and I don't like them.

SPEAKER_04 47:07

What I need to do, now I've well, I say I've got now I've got more time. I don't have more time. But I mean, what I need to do, I need to start getting into the weeds again.

SPEAKER_03 47:13

Into the what?

SPEAKER_04 47:14

I need into the weeds. I need to read the I need the weeds. Oh right, okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:18

I thought it's in week. I know to turn. Oh, sorry, sorry. I thought it's in the week.

SPEAKER_04 47:21

I need to read their books. I've not read any of these guys' books. Well I've I've listened to them on podcasts. I've I've I've read summaries, I've read, I've listened to people that I respect in the industry talk about them.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

It'd be interesting to see what evidence to have and what studies to have.

SPEAKER_04 47:35

The evidence is is always potentially, allegedly, is always dubious. Always. It's done in rodents.

SPEAKER_03 47:46

Interesting. Interesting. Anyhow. Oh, I do. I do like Huberman.

SPEAKER_04 47:56

That's a good question. Why? I was thinking about this the other day. We've had this discussion, I think, before. Why though? Why is Huberman? Yes, very intelligent guy, lots of interesting stuff he talks about. Why is he so popular for the layperson? Because a lot of the stuff he talks about is quite advanced.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

I think it's just because it reminds me of New Zealand.

SPEAKER_04 48:15

Right, okay. But I mean, okay, so take away take away Huberman in the car whilst driving, which he's talking about subjects and topics that are quite science heavy.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

Yeah, there was a lot of science heavy, but then he did go in and he explained it in he did simplify it a little bit, some of the stuff. Some of the episodes I didn't like.

SPEAKER_04 48:33

Right.

SPEAKER_03 48:34

The really sciencey ones. I really didn't like that.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

Take away from take away the car. So if I went to you, right, Fiona, let's put some Huberman on. He's got a new, he's got a new, he's got another episode talking about sunlight and how you have to go outside first thing and open your eyeballs and just stare at the sun. And it's really good for you.

SPEAKER_03 48:50

Yeah, no, I probably wouldn't be down for that.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

It's four hours long. Let's put that on.

SPEAKER_03 48:53

I liked hello friends.

SPEAKER_04 48:55

Chris Williamson, yeah, that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 48:59

Yeah, I liked him.

SPEAKER_04 49:01

Right, yeah, that's different though. Talk about human.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

Yeah, well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 49:03

It's it's just it's just a little bit more.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

I think it just reminds me. It just reminds me of travel.

SPEAKER_04 49:09

Okay, so that's not that's not great though, is it?

SPEAKER_03 49:11

No, probably not.

SPEAKER_04 49:12

But that doesn't really help with my question.

SPEAKER_03 49:13

No. How has he become Well, sure, I'll listen to another podcast and I'll see.

SPEAKER_04 49:18

How has he become so popular?

SPEAKER_03 49:19

But then my attention spells.

SPEAKER_04 49:20

For the lay person, because a lot of it's quite heavy.

SPEAKER_03 49:23

It is very heavy, yeah. But then he is straight to the point.

SPEAKER_04 49:27

No, he's not.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

He is he is. He gets talks.

SPEAKER_04 49:30

He rambles for hours.

SPEAKER_03 49:31

Yeah, he says his point, he gives the research, then he rambles. He points ra he points, gives the point, talks about it, rambles. Right. And when he's rambling, I don't listen to him.

SPEAKER_04 49:42

I've not listened to him for a while, actually.

SPEAKER_03 49:43

I haven't listened to him in too much.

SPEAKER_04 49:44

So maybe I should yeah, maybe I should check it out again.

unknown 49:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 49:48

I mean the last thing I heard about Huberman was there was uh I think he was like dating several women at the same time. Lots of naughtiness from Andrew, I believe.

SPEAKER_03 49:56

Hi, darling.

SPEAKER_04 49:58

Oh dear.

SPEAKER_03 49:59

Okay.

Myth 4: What's The Best Exercise For Losing Belly Fat?

SPEAKER_04 49:59

The cats enter the room, so let's let's speed this along. But yeah, please reach out. Huberman, what do you like about him?

SPEAKER_03 50:06

This one's for Donald. What's the best what's the best exercise for losing belly fat? They're claim. The claim. There must be more this is Chat GBT. Okay. There must be one move that melts body belly fat, right? Reality. No, there's not.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

No, you can't spot reduce. No. That's pretty much it. We need to move on now, but you can't spot reduce.

SPEAKER_03 50:30

Yeah. So if I go and do 100 crunches, isn't that gonna help then?

SPEAKER_04 50:35

It may help with endurance and you might strengthen your core a little bit, but it's not going to independently from a calorie deficit burn belly fat.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

Well, how do I get rid of my belly then?

SPEAKER_04 50:48

It's a calorie deficit. It's a calorie deficit, it's moving, it's having a well-balanced diet. It's genetics as well. A lot of people might just store fat around their stomach and it sucks, and that's just the way it is. Women in particular, unfortunately, you will store more fat around your stomach and hips on average. Genetics.

SPEAKER_03 51:07

Yeah. But when I go online and say about belly fat, they're telling me to do abdominal exercises.

SPEAKER_04 51:14

Do they? Yep. Yeah. Well it makes sense, doesn't it? It does make sense. If you've got flabby arms, you've got bingo wings, do some tricep movements.

SPEAKER_03 51:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 51:21

Yeah. That'd be nice, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_03 51:24

It's not very nice. We do not provoke or condone violence.

SPEAKER_04 51:29

So it makes sense, doesn't it? It does make sense.

SPEAKER_03 51:31

Yes, I know that. But then essentially, you're kind of doing not doing more harm because that's the wrong word, but you are adding because you're the more exercise you do for your abdominal, if you're not in a calorie deficit, it's gonna make you wider because you're building that muscle, sure enough.

SPEAKER_04 51:48

That's what it says in the notes, isn't it, Fiona? You've taken that from the nose. Yes. You've said that like it's your thing.

SPEAKER_03 51:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 51:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:53

But I'm trying to say in my words.

SPEAKER_04 51:55

Right, yes. Yeah, sometimes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

If you're if I was if I was maintaining my calories as I am now, and wasn't just everything's the same, so I'm basically not in a calorie deficit. And I started doing 500 crunches per day. Well, wouldn't my stomach get wouldn't my stomach get bigger? It'd get more tawned.

SPEAKER_04 52:16

You're you're trying to You're treating your you have to treat your your core, your abs. Your abs.

SPEAKER_03 52:23

I don't have a core abs. They're muscles, aren't they? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:25

So you would if you want to get them bigger, but I you train them the same. You have to put them under some sort of resistance. You have to have some form of progressive overload.

SPEAKER_03 52:35

But I don't, I want to get rid of my belly fat.

SPEAKER_04 52:37

Right, okay. But that that was what I put in the notes, is that sometimes if you start training your core a lot, still you have to train them hard because they're a muscle. But if you start training your core a lot and you're trying to get a a more felt look, you're trying to get a slimmer waist, well then you might end up you'd have to train quite hard, but you might end up having bigger abs. Yes. So you become your waist becomes blockier.

SPEAKER_03 53:07

Yeah. But not fatter. Because it'll be torn to it. It'll be harder.

SPEAKER_04 53:14

To lose the fat around your stomach or to to give it a good go, you need to be in a calorie deficit. And you need to try and be moving a bit more.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

Yes, deep.

SPEAKER_04 53:22

Exercising a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 53:24

The clue is if you want to build muscle, that's when you do the crunches. But if you want to lose belly fat, that's calorie deficit.

SPEAKER_04 53:32

It depends. If you're doing 500 body weight crunches, that you that's gonna take a long time.

SPEAKER_00 53:36

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:37

That's gonna take a long time to build muscle. Because if I did 500 of these on my biceps, that's probably not a good example because you are you're using your body weight to do a crunch, so you are putting a bit of resistance into it. There's not much resistance here, though, is there? No. So I'm not gonna build my biceps.

SPEAKER_03 53:52

You need to bring that weight.

SPEAKER_04 53:53

So yes, so if you're doing crunches, you are still using some resistance, your body weight. But it's it'd be better probably for endurance.

SPEAKER_03 54:01

It's like if you plank, the more you plank you're still good at that.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

Right. The more you plank, the better at planking you get.

SPEAKER_03 54:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:08

Will you get a uh a slimmer waist? Will you lose belly fat just because you plank more? Will you get bigger abs? No. Not not if you're just planking.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 54:20

No, you you just you'll just get better at planking.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

Right.

SPEAKER_04 54:23

If that's what your goal is. Great. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 54:26

Well, the best exercise for belly fat, the one that stops you quishing after two weeks. God is so lame, isn't it? Right, this is another one. Breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Why? Dang on because it kickstarts your metabolism. Oh, oh. So the myth is how to kickstart your metabolism in the morning by eating breakfast. That's what everyone used to say. So you've got to kick start your metabolism, try lemon water, ice plunges, six mini meals, ensure you eat breakfast.

SPEAKER_04 54:57

I need to make these notes better because you reading them, it sounds a bit it's out it sounds a lot more jarring because we're at we've had now more of a just uh just a chat.

SPEAKER_00 55:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:05

So yeah. It's much better approach. Listening to you read these my notes, but then Chat GBT putting a his spin on it. Or or or she or they. It sounds really jarring. Really jarring. And sometimes you just miss words out as well, so it sounds even worse. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, you're not all mower. Ooh. Your metabolism is working all of the time. If it wasn't, you'd be dead. So you're not kick starting it. You don't you don't kick start your metabolism.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

That's so dramatic. Well, if it wasn't, you'd be dead.

SPEAKER_04 55:35

Well, it's not dramatic, Fiona, it's fact.

SPEAKER_03 55:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 55:37

If you if you if you were kickstart it in the morning, that'd be a problem. That'd be a serious problem. And you can't. Because you're not a lawmer. Lemon water and having a big breakfast doesn't kick start it. It's always ticking over. So where did that myth come from? Because it might be a good habit. It's habits, it's about behaviour change, it's about behavioural concepts, it's about habits, lifestyle. Is it a bad thing to eat breakfast in the morning? No.

SPEAKER_03 56:06

No, for some people it's great. Is it a bad thing not to eat breakfast in the morning?

SPEAKER_04 56:09

No. Oh, there's minimal room over there for him. Bless his heart.

SPEAKER_02 56:17

Ben.

SPEAKER_04 56:22

Oh, okay. Oh, that's a shame.

SPEAKER_03 56:24

Shall we continue anyways? Because we've only got five minutes left.

SPEAKER_04 56:32

I spent an hour doing the memory card.

SPEAKER_03 56:34

Yeah. I don't know when that went. I've just checked it now. Have you looked at it?

SPEAKER_04 56:38

No.

SPEAKER_03 56:39

I don't know when it went.

SPEAKER_04 56:40

Oh, okay. Oh, we've gone back to the old days. This was meant to be a fresh start. This is meant to be a fresh start for pushable health. Well, and the memory on the camera has run out. Even though I I cleared it this morning. Silly me. That's a shame. We were coming towards the end, so that's fine, but that's that's a shame. That's a real shame. That's that's yeah. Or serious PTSD. Oh, wow. And I don't use the word PTSD lightly. Oh, that hurts. I'm getting all sorts of flashbacks of the misery of the camera not working.

SPEAKER_03 57:10

But Donald is here having a wash. You're missing out on that.

SPEAKER_04 57:12

Okay, God, that's really taking me off my flow. Right, let's let's finish off then. What a shame. Okay. What a shame.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

So as usual, mitz fly around claiming that frequent eating stalks metabolism or that skipping meals triggers starvation mode. Oh, yeah, we've talked about those.

SPEAKER_04 57:27

Yeah, don't exist.

SPEAKER_03 57:28

We can't walk about that anyways. Right, give me some studies, Ben. Hit me with studies.

SPEAKER_04 57:32

Well, no, we'll continue, Fiona. Human metabolism doesn't change meal to meal or day to day. It responds to total energy balance, not breakfast routines.

SPEAKER_03 57:41

It's quite good.

SPEAKER_04 57:42

Studies. Yes. Here you are. No, you know, you're the study person.

SPEAKER_03 57:45

Oh, why am I the study person?

SPEAKER_04 57:50

That's fine. Learn.

SPEAKER_03 57:53

Te at al 1991 shows no meaningful difference in metabolic rate between eating one meal or six.

SPEAKER_04 58:02

That's Te at al.

SPEAKER_03 58:04

Te at al.

SPEAKER_04 58:05

Right. Okay, yeah, there we go.

SPEAKER_03 58:07

Bell Oil at al, 1997, even found no difference in 24-hour energy expenditure between nibbling or gorging.

SPEAKER_04 58:19

Right, okay. There you go. So that that goes a bit more into meal frequency, doesn't it, as well?

SPEAKER_03 58:25

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:25

And and how how meal frequency might affect your weight loss goals or your goals or your metabolism goes into the whole, oh, you must eat frequently throughout the day to keep the metabolism, to keep your metabolism stoked, to make sure the lawnmower doesn't shut down again, you've got kickstarted by eating more. One meal a day, that's not gonna work, your metabolism will be will be dead, drained. As always. Depending what your goal is. It's the behaviors, it's the habits, it's the total calories. If that what do you do?

SPEAKER_03 58:58

Time, Ben. It's an hour.

SPEAKER_04 58:59

Right, I know. Yes, we've been distracted by that turning off, haven't we? No. Why is it turned off? Yes, it's the same thing. It's the same thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 59:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 59:07

Some people enjoy eating one meal a day. Some people enjoy eating six.

SPEAKER_03 59:11

I enjoy eating two. And then treating it.

SPEAKER_04 59:13

Brilliant. But it doesn't make a difference on your metabolism. Don't feel obliged to have to kick start it in the morning, which you won't, because if you did have to kickstart it, you'd be in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 59:27

Dead.

SPEAKER_04 59:27

Yes. So don't worry about having a big breakfast. If you're not hungry in the morning, don't eat. No problem. Your metabolism will be absolutely fine.

SPEAKER_03 59:37

Be grand. Be grand, Frankie. Okay. Where do you want me to go now? Here.

SPEAKER_04 59:44

Anything else on that, Fiona?

SPEAKER_03 59:46

Uh do you want me to start about denetient crap like that?

SPEAKER_04 59:49

Well, yes, a metabolism is affected by there there's an adaption in your metabolism based on you losing weight. We've discussed this, haven't we?

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Yes, we have. So people who

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

Talk about they've got a broken metabolism or they can't lose weight because of their metabolism. If you're losing weights, you become a smaller person, which means your BMR basal metabolic rate, which we've talked about, you require less calories to exist. Your metabolism slows down a little bit because you become a smaller person who requires less calories.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Ah, yes, I remember that.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:23

So it's adapted.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:25

Clever little thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:26

But also behaviors. Neat, non-exercise activity phonogenesis, which we've discussed, which we've touched upon many times. Yes. That reduces. You're hungry. Less energy. You may not want to move as much. Some people exercise too much. They go crazy with the exercise. Ironically, exercising too much means that you're reducing your neat. And your neat makes up 60 to 70% of the calories that you burn every day.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:54

What's neat again?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:55

Non-exercise activity thermogenesis.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:59

Be careful. If you're exercising like crazy all of a sudden, if you go from zero to six times a week, it's too much. Chances are your neat will reduce. You'll stop moving in between sessions as much. And that will hamper your weight loss goals. It sounds crazy, doesn't it? But I've got to exercise as much as possible. Exercise and that loses weight, no, it doesn't. No. Exercise for health, for strength, for purpose.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:28

So like on to six spin sessions a week.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:31

If if you love spin and you can recover from it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:34

But then you don't do anything else. Whereas if you did tree and then you went for a walk every day.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:41

That'd be better.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:42

Yes. We've discussed this before, haven't we? Yes, we've got to be. Bodybuilders, people that are that are deep in deep in prep. They they stop blinking as much.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:50

What do you mean blinking?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:51

They stop blinking as much. People have been observed when you get into an extreme deficit or you're prepping for a bodybuilding show or whatever. Whatever you whatever reason that you may be in a in a big deficit. That your body starts to conserve energy. So it has to find lots of ways to conserve energy.

unknown 1:02:13

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:14

So it stops you moving as much. It stops you wanting to move. This, the arms. Oh, you can't see it now because the camera's off. The arms, the hands. If I got into a a deep deficit, chances are that I would just stop moving as much. That's right. I would slow right down. I won't I wouldn't have the energy to do this. I wouldn't want to. But that's your body's like, no, sorry, Ben, you can't be as handsy anymore.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:36

That's so interesting though, isn't it? Yes. But how your body responds to that. Like to the point where you're not blinking as much.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:42

Yes, because you're starving, you're slowly starving yourself to death. So your body's not your body can't tell, oh, he's in his prep for his bodybuilding show. Oh, he's he's doing his photo shoot in six weeks. Oh, that's why we've reduced our calories. Oh, no worries. I'll I'll keep the energy high up for you, Ben, so you can do your walks, no worries.

Dieting Leads To Blinking Less

SPEAKER_03 1:02:57

But then my question is, and I've I've asked this question before, and you've answered the question, I can't remember what the response is. But then surely it is not good for these bodybuilders to be in that huge of a definition.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:09

Well it's not good for anyone to be in a massive.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:11

With anybody, yeah, but I was just that was the example you give.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:13

For a sustained period of time.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:14

Yeah. But then it's only a short period of time, isn't it? That to do it for.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:18

Well, 12 weeks.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:19

Freaking hell. That's a quarter of the year.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:22

Dropping it bit by bit though. So the first six weeks. It depends what you're doing, depends what your goals are, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:27

It's just it must be so harmful.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:29

Bodybuilding, it's one of those things, it's one of those sports.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:32

You're depriving, but then you're depriving your body, and I know you said about the diet that like you'd have somebody to start introducing the food in and whatnot, but you're going from deprivation to basically overloading. Essentially.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:44

When it when you're overloading.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:45

When when you start eating normally again. Right. I know you have that phase where you where you where you have your start introducing the introduction, whatever whatever phase is.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:53

Well, for everyone, regardless of bodybuilding. Maintenance phase, reverse dieting.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:58

I don't know which phase it was, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:00

If you're dieting for a big chunk of time, if you're in in a in a deficit, in a large deficit for a a large chunk of time, it will be very beneficial to creep back up to maintenance. Your new maintenance, because you're in you are a smaller person now. So not the maintenance you had before. That's not maintenance anymore. That that's a surplus.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:19

But then a lot of people will go to bulk phase, then wouldn't they?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:22

If you go from a massive deficit for 12, 16 weeks and then start bulking straight away, yes, you you will put on a lot of fat quick.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:29

A lot of weight, including fat.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:31

But then that's my that's my argument. Surely that's that's not good for your body when you do it that way, because when you start to think about the extra sugar that's in your body, the extra everything, the protein, which your body now has to work harder to get rid of. So you're using your car, your your heart, you're using your kidneys more, liver, all of that more, but it's just been deprived for the past 12 weeks, not being able to bloody blink. Surely it has it's so bad for the body.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:59

If you're going through regular bouts of it over the years, it's not great.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:03

Yeah. Just yeah, it's it's very fascinating.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:07

This is good, well, let's save it because unfortunately I have I have semi-switched off because the camera's switched off. Well, I think that was very, very, we've gone way over the hour mark, and we've not even talked about the film. So the film is gonna have to be another five-minute job again, and that's it. It's annoying, it's frustrating. More editing now is now involved. It's rubbish. Rubbish. I need to mess. So what a shame. What a shame. Because I think the first, well, however long we got before the camera turned off, no idea. I think it was okay. This new format, I'm not very comfortable, but not bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:36

Not bad then.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:37

Certain things to work on, but not bad. I love hearing the enthusiasm. Let's keep that going. Let's bottle that moment, Fiona. They can't see it because the camera's off, but they can hear it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:48

So that let's bottle that enthusiasm and let's br let's take that forward into the new year. No, sorry, I mean I mean deadly serious.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:55

You're so annoying. No, because that's what you want, Fiona. Let's take it into the new year.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:59

That's what you want, because in the future, when I can find someone else to edit these as well. So if the camera was to turn off or there was a malfunction, it'd be like, oh, that's that's annoying. But I'm not dealing with it, so it doesn't matter. Steve's dealing with it. I'd go, Fiona, this is fantastic. Keep going. I love the enthusiasm. Are you listening?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:18

Yes, I know. I'm just trying to do this.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:20

So what I'm saying is good job. That's great. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

Thank you, darling.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:22

So keep that up.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:23

Right. What film are we talking about?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:25

Trick or treat. Sorry, this is gonna be rubbish.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:27

It's not trick or treat.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:28

Trick or treat.

Trick R Treat Film Review

SPEAKER_03 1:06:29

Yep. So what year was it, Med? 2007. I was doing North for a 1987 one, just to let you know. Oh wow, that's yeah, did did that film look like it was made in 1987? It did not, and I was thinking, this is weird. You've only got I looked at the characters and I was just like, oh, this isn't right.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:46

You've now only got one job, Fiona, because you don't do a lot of the reading anymore. So you you need to really nail this film part. No pressure, you need to focus. Okay, I'm gonna be able to do it. You need to get your head.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:55

Just to let me get a word in, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:57

Trick R treat. Trick R treat. Trick R treat.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

2007, 6.7 under IMDB. What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:05

I think it's quite a good film, actually. I think we watched it, everyone was in a bit of a bad mood. It was like, oh, this is a bit ugh.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:11

Yeah, there was some good bits on it.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:12

I think it I think it's I can see why it's a it's a beloved recent Halloween film. A lot of people enjoy Trick R treat. It's it's one of those films that ushers in the the season.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:24

Yeah, but when I was reading when I was reading the notes and I was reading the synopsis, it kind of made sense to film because I did have a hump on watching it, didn't I? Okay, well, the synopsis is five Halloween stories.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:36

It's an anthology, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:37

I didn't know that. So a principal has a secret life, granted a serial killer, a virgin is looking for her first time, a group of kids pull a prank, a woman who loads Halloween does not respect the rules, and a mean old man meets a demonic trick or treater. So I didn't realise they were all stories because it's it's quite cleverly done because they are very intertwined though.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:01

Yes. Yeah, you you might you were watching the film, weren't you? Yeah. So the characters. I didn't realise.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:05

I didn't I didn't I didn't really realise.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:07

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:08

So what are the rules, Ben? It says here does not respect the rules. Tell me the rules of Halloween.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:13

Oh, from Sam, is it the Pumpkin Man?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:16

The Pumpkin Man, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:18

Quite a good character.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:19

Yeah, there is something about him.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:21

Quite icon quite iconic, that character. Oh no, that's nice. Memorable.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:24

Yeah. Quite freaky.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:26

Yeah. That scene. At the end when he's with the old man and he just goes across the room. No, that's yeah. That was a good scene.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:34

It was you were yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:36

I like the way he came back together as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:38

Yeah, pumpkin seeds came out of him as well. Yeah. It was very good. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:42

When I think it was. It's good. This film's got some good stuff. Yeah. Anyway, sorry, Dave.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:45

Rule one, always wear a costume. Yeah. So this is Sam, the demonic sack man.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:51

Rule two, always always pass out treats to trick or treaters. Rule three, never blow out a jack-o'-lantern before midnight. Oh. You tell me.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:00

Bad luck.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:01

Bad luck.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:01

Yeah, it keeps it keeps it even more.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:03

Rule four, always check your candy.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:05

Oh why?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:05

Rule five, always respect the dead. Rule six, never take down your decorations before November the first. Rule seven, never hurt the innocent.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:14

So just come back to rule number four there. Always check your candy. Why? So the candy bear bar that Sam uses to attack the old man is the same candy bar that he got from the principal earlier in the movie.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:27

Very good.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:28

The principal put razor blades in the chocolate bars before he handed them out. That's how he killed them. So that's a very important rule, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:37

Absolutely, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:38

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:39

Yeah, the principal, great. I can imagine there's lots of teachers out there that would watch us and go, Oh, good for you, buddy. If I could, if I could murder some of these fat little shits, I would. Oh well, the rules are gone now. There's no rules now because the camera's turned off.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:54

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:55

If I could, yeah, if I could may maybe not murder, maybe just teach these kids a lesson. I'm sure we'd be nice. Scare them. There's some manners on them.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:07

There is another rule there as well. Never blow out a jack or lantern before midnight. So I quite like the way it did this because at the end, so it started at the film started with an opening scene, which was actually the end of the film. Does that make sense? Because you're one, she blows out the jack or lantern, doesn't she?

SPEAKER_04 1:10:27

And then it goes earlier in the day, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:28

Yeah, and then it it then the film starts with how she was murdered or whatever. So I quite like the way it did that, but you didn't realise until the end that it did that. So you're kind of it's kind of showing the rules, isn't it? All the rules.

unknown 1:10:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:45

In Fernanda. Yes, it is Fiona. Yeah, you see it. That's all young kids going round to that In the bus? What's it called? That I went to quarry.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:54

Yes. It's got some pretty heavy stuff in that those uh those what do we call them the children in the bus? Mentally handicapped?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:05

I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:06

Special needs?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:07

I think there are special needs.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:09

Okay but that that's that's quite that's quite heavy. So you've got a bus driver and parents who have gone, sorry, these kids are insufferable. Can you go and drive them into a lake?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:18

That's terrible. But was he going to do that because he gave out treaties first?

SPEAKER_04 1:11:25

So what happened? Unfortunately, bless him. Timmy, or we just called him Timmy. He just ended up driving the bus into the quarry anyway.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:34

Yeah. So But how did he oh because he wasn't strapped in.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:37

Yes. So it kind of happened anyway. But yeah, good effort for trying to save the children.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

Trivia on that, they actually recruited those who did have some sort of d some sort of disabilities for that scene or some sort of inner um injuries for that scene. Okay. And they apparently had a hoot and they really enjoyed themselves. Lovely.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:57

Well, that's lovely. No.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:59

But quite heavy. Very heavy. Really heavy for the parents to do that and the bus driver to actually carry it out as well.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:07

And then to live with that.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:09

Oh, what a shame. Decent film. Lots to discuss. The Red Riding Hood. That's that's good.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:14

So Anna Pakwans.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:16

Nowhere near, but that's fine.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:18

Her character, Laurie, is named after Laurie Strohl from Halloween 1978.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:23

Makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:24

The first note that I have here, Michael Myers scenes in the open scene. Remember across the road?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:29

Yes. Someone just ended out.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:31

That's Michael Myers kind of homage.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

A homage, yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:38

So that was very that was that was quite a bit.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:39

That was good. The werewolves. The werewolves.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:44

As you know, the werewolf transformations are done practically with some CG CG enhancements. Fantastic. Because Michael Dor Doherty, who is the director, knows that full C CG transformations don't always look the best. What do you think of that?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:59

No, that yeah. Yeah. He's spot on. They look haggard most of the time. And this was 15, 16 years ago. So you can only imagine. Well, saying that, in my mind, CGI doesn't look like it's improved.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:11

No.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:11

That much? No. Since. So.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:13

He also did Krampus.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:14

He did? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:15

Not bad. Not bad. I actually don't mind Krampus. It's alright, Krampus. I don't like I don't like the second one. I think there's a second one. We've discussed Krampus, haven't we, on the old show?

SPEAKER_04 1:13:22

Oh, they were the days.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:24

Yeah, and that's my notes. On that.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:26

Okay.

unknown 1:13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:28

I think we've kind of covered both.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:30

Well, I would happily spend if the video was still on, I'd spend an extra five minutes on it. But no.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:34

And your note there gets gets a lot done in a short amount of time. It was perfect. It was perfect.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:40

82 minutes, wasn't it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:42

Perfect amount of time. In and out. Told a story. There was no Oh, it had a disclaimer. Sorry, it just kept into my he came into my head there. It had a disclaimer because of the jack-o'-lanterns or the pumpkins that were all in your man's house. Do you know um at the the old man's house? There was hundreds.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:58

Yes, I saw them, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:59

They had a disclaimer, no pumpkins were harmed during the making of this film. It's yeah, it's it's silly. It's silly. I'm getting it. But you don't realise it until you're I didn't realise it when I was watching the film. It was when I did this, when I was just actually, it's actually a good film.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:16

I think this is it. I think it's one of those one of those films that does the opposite. Sometimes you remember films a lot more fondly, and then you re-watch them and go, oh dear.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:24

Oh, that was that actually wasn't very good.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:26

I think I'd sit and watch this again now.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:28

Right, there you go. Because this is it.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:29

I'm more educated on it. The yearly tradition.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:33

Halloween.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:34

Halloween season hits, you put this on. And I'm getting that's what people do.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:37

All of my notes.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:38

By the sounds of it, it's it's very well regarded.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:40

All of my notes are just negative. Charlie Nick and Street's weird name. Oh, you had you had a stinky attribute watching that film. Stupid quarry story.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:48

We still smell it now. Hideous. I've got hit the memory of the movie lingers more in the initial watching experience. So you watch it and go, oh, like you did. Oh, that's oh stinks. Rubbish. And then now we'll talk about it. Oh, actually, yeah, no, actually, it was there was some good stuff. And then hopefully you rewatch it again and go, Oh, do you know what?

unknown 1:15:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:07

It's silly, but that's the whole point.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:09

It's got a huge cult following that following it. Yes, it does.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:11

Yes. And uh I I believe Michael has number two, the script, ready to go. I feel they're they're re-releasing it this year, or maybe last year. It's been released either last year or this year. In because it never got a a cinema release.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:27

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:27

Which didn't help. So it just got banded around film festivals and then started building its cult following.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:32

Oh. Yeah, no. I think I'd go see that. I think I would. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:37

If anything, if anything oh, sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:38

I like the link that I had as well with the vampire, um, the principal dress dressed up as a vampire, didn't I? And then the werewolves, because in all stories, werewolves and vampires are enemies, aren't they?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:51

Yes, there you go, very good. So it's quite a bit. Yeah, I wasn't quite getting the need to have him as as the serial killer. Yeah, it's like we get this guy, this guy's a shit, yeah. But geez. And this as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:01

Yeah. Um and we didn't see any kills.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:06

From who?

SPEAKER_03 1:16:06

From anybody. When you think about it, we've seen that we seen it before, but we didn't see the drawing. We just seen it after. We've seen the little boy's head on the table. We've seen her turn into the werewolf but not kill him.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:17

Uh yeah, I suppose.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:18

We've seen her just hung up on the tang underneath the phone.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:21

Maybe that was to keep it to fifteen, potentially. But yeah, yeah, the principal, yeah. So he killed killed the kid, yeah. Good good on him. But then then he was teaching I don't know, Billy or whoever, his child, how to kill.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:36

What happened, Billy, in the end?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:37

W was he not dressed up in his dad's shirt with the blood on at the end? He was sitting on the step on the step. He's now in the next generation. He can now continue his dad's good work. Oh, he'll probably be in the next one. Oh, I hope so.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:49

I've got here, it's almost too Halloween-y. It is a bit there's a lot of films, it's probably similar to Christmas. There's a lot of films that are set round the season or the holiday, but aren't actually based on Halloween. Eve even Halloween itself, even Michael Myers, it's set at Halloween, but it's not very Halloween-y. No, it's a lot of people. There's some leaves on the floor, but it's like apart from that, it's like, oh my god, this is so Halloween y.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:15

Yeah, but then this is this is this film's kind of playing into the culture, isn't it? The Halloween culture in America, because it's the reporter. Oh, it's Halloween. It's a big festival, everyone's dressed up. Yes, it was very Halloween. It's playing into it as well a little bit, which it which makes it even more like, oh, it's actually Halloween. Spooky shit's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:36

Oh, yes, yeah. So it it does a lot, it does a lot well for itself.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:40

It does, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:41

Yeah, it rams it down your throat, Halloween, which is nice if you like Halloween.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:44

Well, I have to say, Ben, I'm so sorry for having a stinking attitude.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:48

Talking to the mite, you must.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:49

I'm very sorry for having a stinking attitude.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:51

Yeah, a rotten attitude, you'd say you had a rotten attitude.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:54

Yep, yeah, just like I do to exercise and nutrition.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:57

Yeah. Oh, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. What a shame about the camera. Because this episode has been okay. It's been okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:03

I think it's been up there, Ben. Yeah. I think it's been a very chilled.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:06

Okay. Well, this is the future, then. We've got to get that laptop sorted out. We've we've got to get we've got to work on certain things. But this is the future.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:13

And Donald has been in and very quiet and behaved.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:16

I got used to this position. I'm still very uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:18

And the lights, who did that this morning?

SPEAKER_04 1:18:21

Oh, yeah. Okay, the lights changed, hasn't it? Because the curtains have been left open again.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:26

So we didn't quite all with closed Ben. The blinds haven't been.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:29

Yeah, we didn't quite get it. We didn't quite get it. So next time the curtains will shut so the light doesn't stream in.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:34

Well, it's a learning curve. Anyhow, say goodbye. Pushable health.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:39

Pushable health. Yes? Oh my god. What's the outro? Pushable health.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:46

Pushing your health from the puzzle. We're on all the socials. We're on them.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:49

I'm trying to build this YouTube channel. It doesn't help when you can't actually use the camera and it turns off. That's a bit of a bummer because YouTube's about video. So that sucks. That hurts.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:56

Well you can put half a video on.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:58

Yeah, brilliant. Great. Excellent. Yep. So yeah, YouTube, all the socials. Podcast, podcast. Podcast platforms are all we're on there.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:08

Are we on Spotify?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just said all the platforms, Fiona. All the platforms are on there.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:13

Sometimes, Ben, it's good to be specific.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:15

We're on there. Push poor health. Type it in, you'll find us. And what yeah, the logo is there's no logo. Well, there is a logo, but and we need to we need to work on certain things. But we're getting there. This is the next stage. We're now going all in.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:28

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:29

What was the number, Fiona? We're in on this. We had a brief discussion. Off mic, off camera. The camera's off. What's the number? What's the number that we need to get to? Financially, subscribers, downloads, before we can start doing this at least once a week, if not twice. What do we need to get to where you can justify it?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:48

500k per year.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:50

Downloads?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:52

Money.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:53

I need to earn half a million pounds from this podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:56

Yes, because then I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:00

So you need I to quit your job, you need to be earning a half a million just from the podcast. Is that right?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:06

Okay. That seems expensive. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:11

Per year.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:12

What about downloads? What about subscribers? I say to you, Fiona, we've got 10,000 subscribers.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:17

I don't know what that means though.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:19

10,000 subscribers.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:20

I'd say what's going on.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:23

We got we got 10,000 downloads this week.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:26

That'd be impressive.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:27

Okay. Right?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:29

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:30

Are you open to a second episode based on those numbers?

SPEAKER_03 1:20:32

Maybe.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:33

Maybe not.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:33

Right, pushable health. Pushable health. There will be a ball Canadian man talking about pushable health. At some point.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:39

Charlotte. And happy Halloween. Happy Halloween. It's Halloween next week.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:42

Happy Halloween. Go and watch Trick or Treat. Trick or treat. It's it's fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:47

And don't have a hump like I did.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:48

82 minutes. It's a good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:50

It's it's a good stuff. It's good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:52

It's a good stuff. Bye.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:55

Cheers.