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Push Pull Health
With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully "Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life."
Expect Foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life's daily rot.
This weekly audio & video expansion on the world-famous 'The Daily (ish) Rot' email and video ramblings also includes:
Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet Advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes (short and to the point)
Narcissistic wisdom.
WHO THE FU*K ARE WE?
Howdy...
I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach (not a life coach) who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude towards exercise and nutrition!
Empowering You to give the middle finger to your yo-yo diet and half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days!
Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits, only to start the same rotten cycle again?
And again.
Push Pull Health
What Is Causing Male Body Dysmorphia?
What does your rotten health attitude struggle with most?
What if the “ideal body” started as a philosophy lesson?
We kick off with the Greek blueprint for symmetry and virtue, then fast-forward through Sandow’s stage poses, Steve Reeves’ natural benchmark, and the cinematic spark of Pumping Iron. From there, the story bends: testosterone enters gyms, the Golden Era balances mass with clean lines, and the nineties push size to the edge with Dorian Yates and Ronnie Coleman redefining conditioning. You’ll hear how training volume dropped, intensity spiked, and once-human shapes gave way to cartoonish mass.
We unpack the culture around physiques, too, and how Hollywood transformations set impossible clocks with dehydration, diuretics, and carb tricks for a single day of filming. We talk Liver King and “fake natties,” how influencer economies thrive on denial, and why the industry keeps rewarding behaviours that would look like disordered eating anywhere else. The core tension surfaces clearly: when does discipline become obsession, and why does looking better so often mean feeling worse?
If you train, coach, or care about your health, you’ll come away with a grounded sense of what’s real: the likely lifetime muscle gain for natural lifters, the health costs of PEDs and SARMs, and a practical lens to judge claims online. We don’t preach; we put the history, the hype, and the hard truths side by side so you can decide what you’re chasing and why it matters. Enjoy the ride through physiques, film, and physiology—and if this episode got you thinking, follow the show, share it with a friend who lifts, and leave a quick review to help more people find us.
With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully "Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life."
Expect Foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life's daily rot.
This weekly audio & video expansion on the world-famous 'The Daily (ish) Rot' email and video ramblings also includes:
Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet Advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes (short and to the point)
Narcissistic wisdom.
WHO THE FU*K ARE WE?
Howdy,
I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach (not a life coach) who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude towards exercise and nutrition!
Empowering You to give the middle finger to your yo-yo diet and half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days!
Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits?
Only to start the same rotten cycle again?
YOUR COMPLIMENTARY 30 DAY DIET KICK-UP-THE-ARSER
Yes, one more time.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. One. Two. Three. Hi, Ben.
SPEAKER_02:Let's go. Yeah, you're right.
SPEAKER_01:How are you?
SPEAKER_02:You well?
SPEAKER_01:I'm well, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Stressed?
SPEAKER_01:Why are you stressed?
SPEAKER_02:M MU.
SPEAKER_01:Oh.
SPEAKER_02:Extra cash this morning. No tie. Creased. MNU.
SPEAKER_01:And who are you?
SPEAKER_02:Ben. Push, pull, health. In association with M and U. Am I allowed to say that? Probably not.
SPEAKER_00:You will be.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, let's get this done. Very stressed. Exams just around the corner. But I wanted to eke out some time to do this. Because this is meant to de-stress me. And act as revision. It's now. Not this episode, anyway.
SPEAKER_01:What it doesn't de-stress you or it doesn't act as revision or a bit of bullshit. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Just to clarify, that's all. What about the setup, Ben? Can we appreciate the lights? No one cares. The curtains. It's the camera.
SPEAKER_02:The curtains is nice, yeah. That's that's nice. Yeah, came on all by myself. That's a nice addition. So previous episodes where the light has hit your face and we can't see you.
SPEAKER_01:That's not a that's you know.
SPEAKER_02:Just pull the curtains across. Just pull them across.
SPEAKER_01:I did today. How many episodes are we in?
SPEAKER_02:Okay, no rambling. Apart from the fact that you have now committed to doing a photography lighting course.
SPEAKER_01:I have not.
SPEAKER_02:You have?
SPEAKER_01:I have not.
SPEAKER_02:What's the spare time you've got? Have you seen the Escobar meme? There it is. Walking and talking. Just so much spare time.
SPEAKER_01:I don't have spare time. Anyhow, what's the subject today, Ben?
SPEAKER_02:You tell me, Fiona, right? We should preface this.
SPEAKER_01:Preface always.
SPEAKER_02:So it's bodybuilding. Oh. It's bodybuilding. One of the lectures is about prepping for a bodybuilding show. Or prepping a bodybuilder for a show. And originally it was going to be bodybuilding and eating disorders.
SPEAKER_01:Two big subjects.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yes. Yes. Mercifully, very stressed. Eating disorders, separate episode. It's a very sensitive subject.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Needs to be taken seriously. The film choice. Dubious.
SPEAKER_01:Very dubious.
SPEAKER_02:For the eating disorder episode. Not this one. Film choice perfect.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I agree.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so there we go. That's enough.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And composing myself.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Quite a lot of notes here, Fiona. So I don't have too much time. So let's just correl them through so I can get back to revising four. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Thinner or bigger. So the origins of the ideal male physique. Do we need to preface this at all? Comes from ancient Greece. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry, do we need to preface it? We're going to go for the origins. The origins of bodybuilding.
SPEAKER_01:It's interesting. So the ancient Greeks celebrated symmetry.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry, sorry, Fiona. So let's.
SPEAKER_01:If it's not in the notes.
SPEAKER_02:I apologize. Let me just I feel like we should preface it sometime. Preface it. Bodybuilding. We're going to go through the origins very briefly. Before we then get into the lecture around prepping a bodybuilder for a show. Went down a rabbit hole, kind of. Stuck my head in a little bit at a look. Well, this is this is interesting. But I'm too stressed to go down to fully go down the rabbit hole. I did have one more thing to say.
SPEAKER_00:Chicken and Broadway.
SPEAKER_02:That as well, we'll get to that, yes, later. When you start in the gym, when you start doing some some training in the gym, hypertrophy, strength training, whatever it is, physique building, what are we calling it? When you start lifting weights.
SPEAKER_00:Building muscles.
SPEAKER_02:When you start pursuing big muscles like me. Like mine. Naturally, bodybuilding is part of it. So you can't avoid it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:That's pretty much it, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh right. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:We'll get into it.
SPEAKER_01:So can I read it now? Okay. So the origins of the ideal male physique. Ancient Greece celebrated symmetry, proportion, and the balance between mind and body. The gymnasium literally meant school for naked exercise.
SPEAKER_02:Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01:Training was as much about physology. Physology and nobility as it was about strength. Philosophy. Why couldn't I say it?
SPEAKER_02:Second line. We're just warming up. That's what we do there.
SPEAKER_01:I don't do that. No, we used to do that. Philosophy and nobility as it was about strength.
SPEAKER_02:Maybe, maybe do that again. Do that line again. Apologies, I jumped in.
SPEAKER_01:The gymnasium literally meant school for naked exercise. Training was as much about philosophy and nobility as it was about strength.
SPEAKER_02:That's lovely. Socrates.
SPEAKER_01:Very good. Masculinity was tied to nobility, not lust.
SPEAKER_02:This is for you, this line, Fiona.
SPEAKER_01:The ideal male body was broad-shouldered, lean, symmetrical.
SPEAKER_02:Oh no, sorry, it's not. No, no, no, not this line. Apologies.
SPEAKER_01:And included small genitals, which symbolise self-control rather than depriv depravity. Depravity?
SPEAKER_02:Depravity.
SPEAKER_01:Depravity. Okay, and even included small genitals, which symbolise self-control rather rather than depravity.
SPEAKER_02:Mmm. Maybe maybe we'll just skip that line. We'll skip that line. Okay. We'll skip that line. That's fine. Moving on. Good. Anything to say about that?
SPEAKER_01:No, it's it's good. I like these notes. The 19th century, Eugene Shando. Sando. You're okay over that. Sando.
SPEAKER_02:Sando, yeah, that sounds good. Yeah. Yeah, nice.
SPEAKER_01:Known as the father of bodybuilding, built his look specifically to replicate Greek status. He performed on stage.
SPEAKER_02:Statues.
SPEAKER_00:Shall I star again?
SPEAKER_02:Oh no, come on. That's let's come on. That's why we have to warm up. We have to you have to warm up, Fiona. You do, you gotta warm up. You gotta do that stuff. You've got to. You can't just roll out of bed and just start rattling off these notes. Doesn't happen. The best in the well, they warm up. They spend time warming up. Like bodybuilders. Like bodybuilders do. They don't just go in and start lifting heavy weights. You gotta warm the body up. You gotta warm the muscles up.
SPEAKER_01:Whenever you're ready, Ben, I'm ready.
SPEAKER_02:Physical and mental. Gotta warm these up and this up.
SPEAKER_01:He performed on stage, flexed, and they came to first fitness set celebrity.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, right, here we go. Come on. Okay. Let's focus. We'll keep this in, it's fine. It's all part of the part of the experience. You sit down with the family, you watch this, you think, oh, these guys, they're trying the best. It's not perfect. Behind the scenes, this is what you get.
SPEAKER_01:Just shut up. The Mr. Olympia trophy is still named after him. Early bodybuilding was about anesthetics and health, not extreme mass. It remained niche entertainment closer to circus speculate than mainstream sport. Spectacle, I meant to say.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. Okay. It's fine because we get the gist, but this is this is a pretty poor performance so far.
SPEAKER_01:Well, do you want to bloody read it, Ben?
SPEAKER_02:I'm a talent, I need to conserve my energy. Okay, did that make sense, Fiona? Is it worth rattling that off again very quickly? Oh, for God's sake. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:19th century Eugene Sandal, known as the father of bodybuilding, built his look specifically to replicate Greek statues. He performed on stage, flexed, and became the first true fitness celebrity. Celebrity. The Mr. Via Trophy is still named after him.
SPEAKER_03:It is.
SPEAKER_01:Early bodybuilding was about anaesthetics and health, not extreme mass. It remained a niche entertainment closer to circus spectacle than mainstream sport. Aesthetics. What did I say? Aesthetics.
SPEAKER_02:No, you said. What did you say? Touch my hand then. Focus. It needs to make some kind of sense, doesn't it? There's a limit. Anything to say about that, Fiona?
SPEAKER_01:No, Ben. Nothing to say about it.
SPEAKER_02:How are you doing over there?
SPEAKER_01:I'm absolutely fine.
SPEAKER_02:Are you parched?
SPEAKER_01:No, I'm fine. No, I'm fine.
SPEAKER_02:Right, okay. We've warmed up. We're good. We're ready to go. So sandal. That's where it all began. Began begun. Began begun. Yeah?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Let's go.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so pre-steroid champions. Stephen Reeves in the 1940s-50s. He was six foot one, two hundred and fifteen pounds, and he was admired for symmetry and proportion. His physique was aesthetic, achievely na achieved achievable naturally. Achieved naturally, and often held up as the pinnacle of what training and diet could do before drugs reshaped the sport. It's a shame, isn't it? Who was the other one?
SPEAKER_02:I was wondering who I was missing. Reg Parks. This was Arnold Schwarzenegger's idol. Oh yeah. Yes, Reg Parks. He was from Leeds.
SPEAKER_01:And then what happens, Ben? Steroids enter the picture. So in 1935, Ernest Laqueer isolated testosterone from thousands of bull testicles.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, and we'll come back to bull testicles, Fiona. Oh, they're very relevant today. Which is a shame.
SPEAKER_01:It was first used medically to treat so-called male menopause. Menopause. Depression and low libido.
SPEAKER_02:Apparently.
SPEAKER_01:In 1952, Helsinki Olympics, Soviet waste lifters suddenly dominated. Later linked to testosterone use.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, those Soviets, eh?
SPEAKER_01:Then 1954, Dr. John Zelger introduced synthetic testosterone to American lifters at York Barbell, injecting John Grimmick. That was the burst birth of anabolic steroid use in bodybuilding.
SPEAKER_02:I believe so, yeah. Yeah. So I guess you can take from that. Anything pre-1950s in terms of physiques should have been natural.
SPEAKER_01:Where is all the studies back then? Was there any studies or did you just decide to inject people? Were testosterone? I think there were studies, yeah. Was there? In 1950s.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, they've been doing studies a long time, Fiona.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I know that, but I just I just it just feels like a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02:Which part do you need studies for?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I don't know, it just seems a bit unsafe. It's come from bull testicles and then there's Well, there's a big there's a big gap there, isn't there?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, there is a big gap between 1935 to 1954. 20 years now, 29, yes. So the point is based on that, all the physiques that we've talked about pre-1950, natural. Achievable naturally. Diana Ball.
SPEAKER_01:It was released soon after and quickly spread through bodybuilding circles, making drug use systematic rather than ex experimental. This discovery shifted bodybuilding away from natural progression and into a chemical arms race.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, what do you think about that, Fiona? Anything other than the studies?
SPEAKER_01:Very interesting. There were studies, very interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, excellent.
SPEAKER_01:But what if if it was achieved naturally, then why did they have to introduce steroids? Because it was quicker. And there's only so much the body can do. Is that what is that why?
SPEAKER_02:Just getting more muscle, just trying to get bigger and bigger.
SPEAKER_01:And is it quicker, obviously, to inject than it would be to do that? I'm assuming it is a lot quicker.
SPEAKER_02:What do you mean quicker? In terms of gaining the muscle. Yes, and and you're able to gain more.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:You go far and beyond your genetic ceiling.
SPEAKER_01:Hmm.
SPEAKER_02:But the point is you still gotta train hard. It's all well and good saying that all these bodybuilders taking steroids, they're taking the easy route. No. And I'm not a big fan of bodybuilding or bodybuilders. But it's it's tough. They've got to put a shift in. Yes, they do. Still got to put a shift in.
SPEAKER_01:And then we have Irony and a Golden Era in the 1960s to the 70s.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, late 60s. Late 60s. Mostly 70s. Pumping iron, 1975, which we'll get to. Oh no, sorry, 1977. Based on the 1975 Olympia.
SPEAKER_01:I was just gonna correct you there. Arnold Schwartzniger.
SPEAKER_02:Kind of.
SPEAKER_01:Franco Colombo. Frank.
SPEAKER_02:The other two should be easier.
SPEAKER_01:Frank Zayn.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And Serge Newbert.
SPEAKER_02:Nubray. Just some examples. It wasn't just Arnie. There was quite a lot of fantastic bodybuilders during this period. The Golden Years.
SPEAKER_01:Sergio Olivia, the only man to beat Arnold on the Olympia Sky.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yes, that's worth noting. I believe that was late 60s. 69 maybe.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, around then.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, fantastic physique. Yeah. Beat Arnold. Unheard of.
SPEAKER_01:Hmm. How's Arnie now?
SPEAKER_02:What's he doing? He's pushing 80. Yeah. So he's he still trains every day. I believe he still gets on his bike and cycles down to Goal's gym in Venice.
SPEAKER_00:Imagine that coming across him, cycling on his bike.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think it's a thing. I imagine he's got lots of security.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well.
SPEAKER_02:Next to him.
SPEAKER_01:So the golden era was era was about mass. The golden era. The golden era was mass, but always balanced with anesthetics and symmetry.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's what you said. Anaphetics. Anas an aesthetics?
SPEAKER_01:Did I?
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Whatever.
SPEAKER_02:Aesthetics.
SPEAKER_01:Fo flowing proportions, wide shoulders, small waistlines, and a classic V taper. Oh, we know all about the V.
SPEAKER_02:Do we?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, remember you tried to get it. Well, you didn't get it.
SPEAKER_02:Got it now.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, remember the V.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I have a V V shape now.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. In training, high volume, hours in the gym daily, a big focus on the mind-muscle connection. Oh yes. Pumping iron in 1977 took bodybuilding mainstream. Arnie became a Hollywood star cementing bodybuilding in popular culture.
SPEAKER_02:Forgot about Lou Ferrigno. The Hulk.
SPEAKER_01:Oh the Hulk.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Do you know Lou Ferrigno?
SPEAKER_01:Is he yes? I know that name. I don't know the Hulk.
SPEAKER_02:He played the Hulk. In the the TV show, The Hulk. The Incredible Hulk. Big guy. Big bloke. He was Arnold's main rival during that 1975 Olympia.
SPEAKER_01:But he didn't beat Arnold. Sergio did. He was, you know, he was in phenomenal shape.
SPEAKER_02:I'm sure some would argue that he should have beaten Arnold.
SPEAKER_01:Really?
SPEAKER_02:And the fact I'm not quite sure why he didn't win an Olympia after. Arnold retired in 1975. I don't know how Lou Ferrigna didn't win an Olympia. Not sure. Not quite sure what happened.
SPEAKER_00:Who won after Ernie then?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, lots of people.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02:Colombo won a few times.
SPEAKER_01:Did Frank Zayn win? Was he not in phenomenal shape as well, then?
SPEAKER_02:Who?
SPEAKER_01:Frank Colombo. Well, they all were. So what what did your man have over Franco?
SPEAKER_02:Who? Arnold?
SPEAKER_01:No, the other dude. That should have won against Ernie that you just said.
SPEAKER_02:Lou Frigner.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, nothing because he didn't win. He was just in phenomenal shame. Big blow.
SPEAKER_01:So even though drug assisted, these physiques still looked human and aspirational. Big but not grotesque.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, that's a good point, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:So they still look normal.
SPEAKER_02:This was the end, this was the last. This era marked the the end of physiques. I think most people would look at Arnold and still say, within reason, that's that's fine.
SPEAKER_01:He was very big.
SPEAKER_02:It was big, yeah, it was big blow. Huge. Yeah, big blow.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But was he grotesque?
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_02:No. We get into the the 80s and the 90s. It starts to become a little bit grotesque. See, I only Because it's just trying to get as big as possible. Bigger and bigger and bigger.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well then it's taking that, it's taking it to the extreme, isn't it? And then it becomes looking fake. Well not fake, but gross.
SPEAKER_02:If you're into bodybuilding, yeah. I guess it's more muscle group. Lovely.
SPEAKER_01:The more muscle, the better. It's my slippers.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay. But yes, I think the the general consensus would be that Arnold, in terms of bodybuilding. That was the peak.
SPEAKER_01:So the 1980s, the 1980 comeback.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, this is Arnold. He came back in the 1980 Olympia. Yeah. He was he was training for what's the film? Conan the Barbarian.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I think he was just like, oh, do you know what I'm in pretty good Nick? Let's just let's just go and do the Olympia.
SPEAKER_01:But he didn't look as good as Mike Menzer or Chris Dickerson.
SPEAKER_02:He didn't know.
SPEAKER_01:No, so there's a lot of controversy around that, wasn't there?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, there was. He looked he looked pretty good.
SPEAKER_01:But but were these guys starting to take it to the next extreme then?
SPEAKER_02:But it was just controversial because he just turned up.
SPEAKER_01:Oh.
SPEAKER_02:So no one knew he was gonna be in it and he just turned up. So oh hi, yeah. Oh, it's Arnold, here he is. Oh you're just watching. No, I'm just gonna get in the speed out, just compete. Why not? It's pretty sickening, isn't it, really? Yeah. He was in great shape. Of course he was. He's always in great shape. I don't think he had specifically trained to do the Olympia. And these guys were there trained for several months to be in the Olympia. And Arnold shows up, everyone goes nuts. Oh my god, it's Arnold.
SPEAKER_01:Who won? Arnold.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's that.
SPEAKER_02:It wouldn't be controversial otherwise, wouldn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Well, I don't know. I just thought him just showing up was quite controversial.
SPEAKER_02:But the fact that it was Arnold, a lot of people say that he got gifted the 1980 Olympia trophy.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:The Eugene Sandau trophy.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yes.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Lee Hanley, who was in the 1980s, he brought in a new level of conditioning and size.
SPEAKER_02:Haney.
SPEAKER_01:Sorry?
SPEAKER_02:Sorry, yes, continue.
SPEAKER_01:Lee Haney in the 1980s brought in a new level of conditioning and size, but still carried the aesthetics of the golden era. Stimulate, don't annihilate. What is mantra? Balance size with proportions.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, Mike Benser. Oh, yep. Who we've mentioned. Begin to hit, which we'll get into in a minute. There's a there's a gentleman.
SPEAKER_01:Interval training.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, but based on more intense, shorter bursts, shorter workouts, not training as much. So instead of training five or six days a week for an hour and a half, two hours, Mike Mensah was three to four days a week, shorter sessions.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So that goes against what Lee Haney's saying here about stimulate, don't annihilate the muscle. And this then feeds into the Mass Monster era and a certain Dorian Yates.
SPEAKER_01:Dorian Yates.
SPEAKER_02:Oh big bloke.
SPEAKER_01:So the Mass Monster era was between the 1980s to the 90s. The shift from balance to sheer mass. Dorian Yates, he introduced grainy, dense, brutally conditioned muscles. Training was high intensity, brutally heavy, lower volume than Arnold's era.
SPEAKER_02:So three to four days a week, 45 minute sessions.
SPEAKER_01:Ronnie Coleman took size and conditioning to a level never seen before. He was eight times Mr. Olympia. On stage at 290 pounds with shredded detail.
SPEAKER_02:It's a lot, isn't it? Yeah, that is a lot. Having Arnold on stage was what? 215, 220, maybe. Maybe. Maybe a little less.
SPEAKER_01:I'm gonna have to Google this guy now.
SPEAKER_02:Ronnie Coleman. You must have seen Ronnie Coleman.
SPEAKER_01:I think I have, yeah, I recognize that.
SPEAKER_02:The thing about Ronnie Coleman is that, yeah, he was a freak. But yeah, the abs were a bit. He was just too big. He was just so big that he's the gut was there a little bit. His abs weren't great. Just too big. You know, 290, I'm sure some of these bodybuilders would have would have crept up towards those numbers off season when they were going for a bulk. But to step on stage that weight when you're meant to be shredded to the bow. Jeez. Insane. Dorian Yates, do we do we need to mention anything more about Dorian Yates? He was known as the Shadow. He used to go on. Sorry, Dorian. He used to go back to his little gym in Birmingham, I think. It was like a dungeon. Really bleak. Dark. And no one used to see him. He used to go off to his little dungeon in Birmingham, do his training, and then just turn up and wow, the audience, win the show. Used to wear baggy clothes all the time, so you could not quite tell how big he was, what condition he was in, but he was known as a shadow. Just swept in and stole the show.
SPEAKER_01:Hmm.
SPEAKER_02:Anything else, Vierina? Anything else here?
SPEAKER_01:Marcus Ruell.
SPEAKER_02:Oh Christ. Yeah, you should see this guy.
SPEAKER_01:Cartoonish in size. Oh, ridiculous. A symbol of the bigger at all costs mentality.
SPEAKER_02:Ridiculous.
SPEAKER_01:I think I've seen a picture of him.
SPEAKER_02:Just obscene.
SPEAKER_01:He looks gross. It's the neck, isn't it? He doesn't have a neck.
SPEAKER_02:He's got the traps are quite something, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he doesn't have a neck. Well he does, but he doesn't read it. The traps are.
SPEAKER_02:I believe he beat Ronnie Coleman in one of the not the Olympia, but in one of the early 2000s, he beat him at one of the shows. Absolutely obscene. Even bigger, actually, than Ronnie Coleman. At this particular show.
SPEAKER_00:Jesus.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely obscene. Obscene. Interesting bloke, I think. I think he off season he used to just drink and smoke and stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Really? And then he just whipped himself back and he didn't live the life, no.
SPEAKER_02:But I think a lot of bodybuilders would would sometimes just go off and train a little bit, but just put on a lot of mass and then just go, right, okay, here we go. Olympia season. Let's start injecting again. Let's start training in the gym. Oh my god, look at them. There they go.
SPEAKER_01:That must be so hard though. Getting back into that. After being like drinking, smoking, doing whatever.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I think I think Marcus Rawl was was a one-off. I don't think they're all doing that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:They were they were putting on.
SPEAKER_01:You should have to have a certain level of discipline.
SPEAKER_02:They maybe weren't training as much. So they were training less and eating more, but they weren't, yeah, they weren't going off getting drunk and smoking.
SPEAKER_03:Hmm.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, have a look. Maybe I'll link it in. Marcus Rawl, 2000 and I don't know, 2002 at this particular show. Just obscene.
SPEAKER_00:You're gonna have to say that word for me. The bubblegut.
SPEAKER_02:Where are we?
SPEAKER_00:Palumboism.
SPEAKER_02:Dave so the guy, this is from a guy called Dave Palumbo.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Palumboism?
SPEAKER_01:Palumboism. Which is, as Ben says, the gut or the bubble guts.
SPEAKER_02:The bubble guts, this is yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's caused by the heavy use of growth hormone and insulin. It leads to enlarged visceral organs and extended stomachs, even while shredded. Physiques look huge, but stomachs protrude. Ruining symmetry and aesthetics. The once inspiring look of bodybuilding became for many a grotesque spectacle.
SPEAKER_02:What's the use of the word grotesque?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. I don't really like that word. Well, it's just I always wonder how you um how you say it. I always have to think about it.
SPEAKER_02:Or grotesque.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It's quite a strong word.
SPEAKER_01:It is. Grotesque.
SPEAKER_02:Dave Palumbo, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So he does come from bubble he bubblegut.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, still had abs.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But a lot of these bodybuilders did suffer from the old bubble gut, so they had just a a stomach with abs on. Just looked a bit off. Dave Palumbo got into keto, big keto guy. We mentioned the MCT oils. Oh, he was all about those. Oh, he loves that. MCT oil.
SPEAKER_01:What's that?
SPEAKER_02:We mentioned this previously, you know, with the bulletproof coffee.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yes, yes, yes. Now I remember.
SPEAKER_02:I believe Dave Palumbo. Well I should know I'm I'm pretty sure a lot of the I'm pretty sure the bodybuilders in Arnold's area were weren't massively high carb. I think they were eating more along the lines of keto. Lots of meat, cheese, cream.
SPEAKER_01:That's high in calories, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think a lot of those bodybuilders weren't eating. I think a lot of them weren't eating massive amounts of carbs. Maybe as they got closer towards the show, the carbs went up. But Dave Palumbo was this guy who who started doing keto in the 90s. Dave Palumbo went to McDonald's or somewhere and just bought loads of burgers. Lots of foods that were high in sodium. And he got all these his veins popping, and everyone was like, My god, what's this guy using? Everyone thought he was using some drug that they weren't aware of.
SPEAKER_01:No, it's just food.
SPEAKER_02:And he was like, No, I've just just eaten loads of meat and cheese and lots of sodium. So he was like, oh hang on a minute, is this a thing? Maybe I should cut the carbs and try this instead.
SPEAKER_01:And that's how interesting.
SPEAKER_02:No, that's just what he started doing. Yeah. But the point is he started doing that in the 90s, I think it was the 90s.
SPEAKER_01:And then everyone followed the side.
SPEAKER_02:But I'm pretty sure. Well no, I don't know. Yeah, I'm not sure. I don't know the ins and outs you see, Fiona.
SPEAKER_03:Oh.
SPEAKER_02:But I'm pretty sure the golden era with Arnie, a lot of them were doing similar things. They were eating high protein, but high fat as well. It wasn't just eating loads and loads of white rice and oats.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Anyway, we've got a lot to get through. If people are watching, please let me know. People who are into bodybuilding, aficionados.
SPEAKER_01:So what about modern body standards? So from 2000s to now. So Hollywood transformations. We've got Hugh Jackman, known for Wolverine. Chris Hemsworth, Thor. Henry Cavell, Spider-Man, and of course of course.
SPEAKER_02:Superman. Superman, Fiona. He played Superman, not Spider-Man.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, did I say Spider-Man?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you did, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I got excited because I seen DeRock. Every time I say Darock, I can just Datoot Fairy.
SPEAKER_02:That's interesting because he has sized down. I don't know if you've seen The Rock recently.
SPEAKER_01:I just cannot get that picture out of my head.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I don't even know Rock are like that.
SPEAKER_01:Dwayne DeRock Johnson. It was his best role.
SPEAKER_02:He'd be listening to this. Well, you won't appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01:I just thought it was hilarious.
SPEAKER_02:He's sized down, Fiona. I don't know if you've seen him recently.
SPEAKER_01:No, I haven't.
SPEAKER_02:His latest film, he plays Mark Hunt, a former UFC fighter. Big bloke. The rock's, yeah, huge, you know. But now he's sized down.
SPEAKER_01:Why has he sized down? Too hard to make it.
SPEAKER_02:Who knows? So yes, the rock has sized down. He's lost a good 60-ish pounds.
SPEAKER_01:Why would you agree to size down when it's so hard to stay in that size?
SPEAKER_02:Well the weird thing is people are saying that he's sized down because of the film he's been in. Well, he was huge in that film. Mark Hunt was massive, and The Rock is massive in the film. He's humongous. He's he's if anything, he might be a little bit bigger. So maybe it's because he's now what 53? So it's enough. It's enough rock. That's enough. Of course, the rock isn't it? Pleads natural. He's got ridiculous genetics. He's got obscene genetics. Obscene genetics. So he's a big bloke anyway. Regardless. But of course he's Yeah, he's he's juiced to the gills. Of course he is. Jesus.
SPEAKER_01:Juice to the gills. So you guys are juiced to the gills and a two fairy.
SPEAKER_02:No, that's what I said. I think the two fairy is a bit smaller, isn't he? He went for a period of time where he he was smaller, he downsized to try and fit in and get different roles. Oh and then he got bigger again. He was like, no, I'm gonna be an action star. Oh okay, fine. I don't know, I don't know, Fiona. I don't think he's confirmed it either way, but he's he's lost a good amount of weight. So you assume he he might say it's for a role, but it'd be interesting to see if he puts on the weight again. Because as I've said, he's he's now in his fifties, and it's just not realistic to keep juicing to that degree. Or just to be that big.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, never mind. I'm not gonna lie.
SPEAKER_01:Anyhow, modern body standards, they're achieved through unsustainable methods, dehydration, diuretics, crash diets, carb manipulation.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, these people, most of these people, so Jackman four in the latest in the latest four, he just looks phenomenal physique, but he just looks ridiculous. I think the earlier fours, you'd say, okay, yeah, that's that's achievable. Good genetics.
SPEAKER_01:Because it's never good enough, though, that's the thing. So they always have to get better and better and better. They can't just stay they just have to keep pushing themselves until they'll start looking grotesque.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah. I wouldn't say does four look grotesque. I don't think it looks grotesque, but no, not at all. The latest four, I haven't watched it, but judging by the trailer, it's it's obscene. So whether whether about the fact if he's on gear or not.
SPEAKER_01:Gear now.
SPEAKER_02:Juice, whatever. Forget about the fact if he's juicy or not, whatever. Chris Emsworth. But the point is of these of Hugh Jackman and Four and The Rock and a lot of these stars, their physique that they they display on screen is so short, it's so fleeting.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Like it's literally two hours. It's achievable. Some of it's achievable naturally. But even the fact that, say Hugh Jackman, say he's natural. The physique he shows on screen is is a day. He's not walking around like that for weeks at a time.
SPEAKER_01:I don't understand how not.
SPEAKER_02:Is it because he's injecting a like you've just no, no, you you've read it out.
SPEAKER_01:Oh right. Dehydration directory.
SPEAKER_02:Crash diets, fine, carb manipulation.
SPEAKER_01:Fine.
SPEAKER_02:All these things are are short term.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well Dave can't hold his looks all year round. Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. So some of these things that we'll get to, if we ever get to it, you might utilise some of these things during, say, peak week for bodybuilders when they get ready to step on stage. So that's a week. Max. To finish off the final touches.
SPEAKER_01:So Zach Z Zach oh, what's his name? I can never say it. Ephron? Zach Efron, Baywatch, openly admitted his diuretic fuel physique left him depressed and unhealthy.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I imagine it did, yeah. He looked good though. Yeah. Yeah, he looked pretty good, yeah. Yeah, the rock, he looked pretty big in Baywatch. I never watched Baywatch. Looked terrible.
SPEAKER_01:I remember I've seen Brownie was terrible. I remember seeing a couple of them.
SPEAKER_02:We're talking about the film, Fiona Baywatch. Not not the Hasselwolf, not the original.
SPEAKER_01:Oh right, I'm thinking of Hassleworth.
SPEAKER_02:The original was back in the 80s and 90s. Yeah, we're talking about the film. Oh, yeah. I don't think Zach and Fraun and The Rock were in the off one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah, I've seen that. I've seen that. Oh, it does look good in that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Oh right, okay. I've definitely seen that.
SPEAKER_01:Any good? No.
SPEAKER_02:No, it looked terrible, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um counterculture dad bobs. Dad bods? Counterculture dad bods. Briefly seen as more relatable. We've got Chris Pratt. DiCaprio Seth Rogan. A cultural swing against a superhuman idea. No. A cultural swing against a super a c tough watching it.
SPEAKER_02:It's tough watching it. It really is. I feel sorry for you. Jesus. Wow.
SPEAKER_01:A cultural swing against superhuman ideal. But still tried to appearance.
SPEAKER_02:Still tied to appearance, yeah. That's it. Anyway, dad bods, yeah, whatever. It's I think that was just in there because I don't know. It shifts, doesn't it? People like dad bods. Yeah, champion championing in people like people like dad bods. Dad bods are hot. And then they don't like dad bods. Or there's videos online. Yes, yeah, of course, yeah. But there's videos online of. But there's videos online of women saying that. Chris Bumstead. He's uh he's a very famous bodybuilder. Big blow. He competes with the uh the men's physique. So he's not he's not against the big big boys.
SPEAKER_00:So what is women?
SPEAKER_02:But there's a video there's a video, there's a video online of someone seeing his physique, a woman saying, Oh, yeah, dad bot.
SPEAKER_01:Well and what exactly did this woman look like herself?
SPEAKER_02:This was when he was off season, I'm assuming. So he's not chiseled to the bone, just big blow.
SPEAKER_01:I'd have no idea who this guy is. I'm just trying to picture it.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, big blow. Yeah, oh very attractive, yeah. Yeah, he's he's the man when it comes to he's not na I keep I keep wanting to say natural physique. He's not he's not natural, he's far from bloody natural. Yeah, but he doesn't look men's physique. So classic physique. I think he I think he competes in the classic physique competition. So not not the Olympia, not the mass monsters. This other one. So they're still juiced to the gills, but they're not. I'm sure he doesn't care.
SPEAKER_01:Oh okay.
SPEAKER_02:But the point is, this is just this is just one video. I'm sure there's others. But the whole the whole shifting thing about dad bots. Oh, they're hot, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love a dad bot. Fine, okay. Oh, six packs, they're gross. But then people seeing Bumstead and saying, Oh yeah, a bit of a dad bot that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, people are just critical, aren't they?
SPEAKER_02:God, really.
SPEAKER_01:So fake nattes and famous frauds.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yes.
SPEAKER_01:We like the liver king. Liver king claimed his luck came from an ancestral diet of raw liver.
SPEAKER_02:Ancestral, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Later exposed for a 10k per month steroid stack. He's so naughty. Michael Hearn, decades of massive size while claiming natural, a long-running industry joke.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, Michael Hearn is in magazine Dream. Yes, he is. He's the bodybuilder. The liver king, yes, the the ball testicles.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, right, yes. Now I'm with you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's it's rough. We haven't watched that documentary yet about the liver king. No, but it's it's it is really depressing. Yes, it came out that he was lying and he was on steroids, which is like of course he was though. Yeah. Yeah, phenomenal physique.
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Looks good. Well, no, I know he looks terrible actually, he looks really unhealthy, but But why would he lie?
SPEAKER_01:Well, to make money, obviously. But he really went in for it, he really lied.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah. I'm not I'm not sure if he's had a bit of a mental breakdown. There was a there was a thing recently where he was he flew out to Austin to confront Joe Rogan. Yeah, the big podcaster, yeah. For a fight. It's like, my god.
SPEAKER_01:Well we might try for an RDAR step if we're not careful. Who'd win? You or him? Well, he's a big bloke, so he'd he'd he'd he'd yeah, he'd get you.
SPEAKER_02:Joe Rogan on the other hand, he's uh a martial arts expert. He's a black belt in all sorts of stuff. So I think Joe Rogan would have probably been okay. But yeah, I I watched a video recently of him just sitting there with his raw milk eating ball testicles or eating some form of testicle. It's like this is this is actually really really depressing.
SPEAKER_00:Anyhow, moving on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, sitting there eating raw testicles. That's disgusting. That's beastly. Should have watched the documentary, it'd be interested to see because some of those documentaries you think I'm Why is he eating that?
SPEAKER_01:To get testosterone.
SPEAKER_02:Ancestral life.
SPEAKER_01:That's disgusting.
SPEAKER_02:We'll come back and watch the documentary because sometimes it humanises these people, doesn't it? But what I've heard is that he doesn't. If you if you think Liver King's a douche, it's like, oh yeah, no. He's a douche. But this confirms that the guy is a douche. Unstable.
SPEAKER_01:Oh unhinged.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Making his kids do the same thing.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I don't want to get into it.
SPEAKER_02:Making his kids sit down at breakfast eating ball testicles. Jesus.
SPEAKER_01:Where does Orchandis bullshit?
SPEAKER_02:You know, Brian, by all means, if you want to live this life, you go for it, but leave the kids over. Maybe your kids just want some frosties. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Give the kid a cocoa pop.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I'm not here judging people's breakfast choices, but ball testicles and raw milk.
SPEAKER_01:So moving on to male body dysmenders.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, sorry, Michael Hearn. Very quickly.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, sorry, sorry, Ben. I told you.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we need to need to.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we do need to.
SPEAKER_02:Well, it's it's hard because it's interesting. We talk about certain things. I'm like, yeah, let's get into it. And I'm like, oh, hang on a minute. No, we're already 45 minutes in. M and you, I've got to go and revise.
SPEAKER_01:Right, go on, Michael Hearn.
SPEAKER_02:Nothing else to say. Oh, okay. It says it, yes. What's the bloody point? It's a long industry joke that he he claims natural.
SPEAKER_01:Well, he's not.
SPEAKER_02:Highly unlikely. But then you go back and see him when he was 13, 14. Just absurd. 220 pounds. Ripped. So once again, obscene genetics. Not just the 1%, the 0 0 1.1%. Obscene. So the genetics are there. The work ethics there. Everyone who talks about Micah Hearn, it's like, oh yeah, okay, he's probably on something. But they will then say, oh well, he's I've never seen anyone as regimented as him on his diet. He's a freak. It's just at this point, especially, he's now in his mid-50s. But it's but it is a running joke. I don't think people get too angry about it. But then I don't know at the same time what you should do because anyone who lies about taking steroids, it's rough. But yeah, why do people they sell supplements, they sell their training program while claiming natural? It's like you know, come on.
SPEAKER_01:Surely these people could be sued for false advertisement though. Because it is falsely advertising.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I mean it's all in the it's all in the TLCs and the TLCs, terms and conditions, it's all in the TNCs and disclaimers and all the rest of it. But yes, I'm sure Michael Hearn was natural for a good good while. A lot of these people that have got these ridiculous physiques and these genetics they were natural for for a sustained period of time. It just depends when they went from being natural to not natural.
SPEAKER_01:Hmm. Well, it's pushing themselves again, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02:Ronnie Coleman, he was. Oh what, sorry? Okay.
SPEAKER_00:My tunnel's gone off my watch.
SPEAKER_02:Oh right. Oh my god. Ronnie Coleman. Up until his late 20s, I think. There's there's pictures of him doing competitions. Obscene. Many people claim that he's still natural. Obscene. Obscene genetics. Huge.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So Michael Hearn queried.
SPEAKER_01:Moving on.
SPEAKER_02:Mid fifties now, Fierino. He's he's probably taken something.
SPEAKER_01:Male body dysmorphia or bigorexia. The forever small syndrome. No matter how big, men feel undersized. Obsession with every flaw in the mirror never satisfied. Egocytonic behaviors. The obsession is disguised as discipline. Refuse and social events if macros cannot be controlled. Anxiety if a meal is missed or tracking isn't perfect. Training multiple times per day, skipping recovery. The reward paradox. In bodybuilding, obsessive dieting, compulsive training, and heavy drug use are rewarded with trophies. In any other context, the same behaviours will be dis will be diagnosed as eating disorders or OCD. The better that you look, the worse your health is.
SPEAKER_02:Oh right. Well should we should we touch upon that? It's a shame because annoyingly The thing is, don't panic, Fiona. Stop panicking. I'm not. When when MNU's finished, when I finish the website, when I've got all this stress out of my life, this will be fun again.
SPEAKER_03:Oh.
SPEAKER_02:Because my my mindset with these, because of limited time, is that it's trying to get everything in. It's almost like it's a one and done. We're gonna be doing this until we die.
SPEAKER_00:No.
SPEAKER_02:So we've got another, you know, maybe if we're lucky, you know, 30, 40 years of doing this.
SPEAKER_01:You've got about half an hour before my battery goes down.
SPEAKER_02:I've doing this every week. Oh my problem is every time we do these episodes, they're rushed. And in my mind, it's oh well, one time. We've only got one shot of this, talking about this specific subject. No.
unknown:No.
SPEAKER_02:Well, yes, now we do, yes. Currently. But in the future, no. Okay, well, we're feared, then so male body dysmorphia. Just just a really interesting subject. But it's just it's just touched upon and it's frustrating because I like that I like that word.
SPEAKER_01:The obsession or that sentence, the obsession is disguised as discipline. I really like that. That's quite powerful.
SPEAKER_02:Well, the the whole the better you look, the worse your health is.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So the leaner someone is, oh my god, look at that. Oh, we've talked about that, we've talked about this before.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but yeah, again, it's it's you were saying about when you when you had a six-pack, when you were really chiseled and whatnot, you're completely miserable as well. So it's not just about your health, it's about your mental health as well, isn't it? The mental side, the refusing social events, so it's obviously you're isolating yourself as well. Not a bad thing. Depression, anxiety, as you mentioned. It's there's a lot, there's a lot.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, there is.
SPEAKER_01:So it's yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:I think it takes a certain I don't know what the word is. No.
SPEAKER_02:Hmm. It I it it can have a massive impact on everyone's life. Yeah, on your family's life. Yes. If you're if you get on edge about going to social events or doing anything.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, you used to drive my knotting when you were shredding.
SPEAKER_02:I used to have shredding.
SPEAKER_01:You had I had to measure everything out and even dinner and stuff, it was a pain in the back side. Now I just whack anything in. It's great. Love a butter, doesn't even know about it.
SPEAKER_02:Right, well, that's it. That's it, Fiona. This episode has inspired me to step on stage. I'm gonna get back into bodybuilding. I'm gonna do it. I was every into it, but I'm gonna get into it.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, I've lost my patience.
SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna start injecting. And I need you for that, Fiona.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:So you have to start shaving my butthole. You have to start injecting me in the bum. All this stuff.
SPEAKER_01:What's a PED? Sorry, did you not?
SPEAKER_02:Sorry. I'm saying. You're not doing anything with your buttons. At the age of 29, I'm getting I'm pushing it. 29. I'm pushing it a bit. So I need to. This is it. M and you. After we've done the exams, pass with flying colours, everything else. This is it.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'm sure M and you will sponsor it. Let's do a thing.
SPEAKER_02:Let's commit to it right now on camera. M and you will sponsor it. Do well, maybe, yeah. Let's do a bodybuilding show.
SPEAKER_01:Me and you. Is that a thing?
SPEAKER_02:I've never seen that. Yeah, I've never seen that. Uh husband and wife doing a bodybuilding show together. Husband and wife. I'm sure they do. I'm sure it's a thing, but.
SPEAKER_01:I'm not doing that with you.
SPEAKER_02:Let's do it.
SPEAKER_01:I don't have any discipline.
SPEAKER_02:The next 12 months, 2026. Let's get on the gear. Let's do a bodybuilding show.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_02:Tan up. We can trim each other's butthole, hair. That's what you need to do for you owner. No hair on the body.
SPEAKER_01:I'll send you down for a wax.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, that's fine. Let's commit to it.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Let's see how big we can get. Let's see how chiseled we can get.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Mainstream spillover. What is a PED?
SPEAKER_02:A performing enhancing drug.
SPEAKER_01:Pets often niche. Now used by everyday Jim Gores chasing influencer physiques. Steroid and swarms.
SPEAKER_02:SARMs.
SPEAKER_01:SARMS. Used to used in growing among recreational lifters.
SPEAKER_02:I wouldn't worry too much about this.
SPEAKER_01:What about your your experience in uh where are we? Indonesia with them all just injecting themselves.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Well, that's you know, that is a good point. We won't get into that now, but the point of that is a lot of people are now glorifying PEDs, drugs. So you've gone from people being really secretary about it, oh no my god, I'm not, I'm not on drugs, to now people glorifying, oh hi guys, yeah, this is my this is my snack, this is what I'm using. But a lot of these people are like 18. Oh Jesus Christ. Well, they've got a long way to go. Give yourself give yourself 10 years, at least. But then that's train for 10 years before you start getting on PEDs.
SPEAKER_01:But that's the thing. So at 18, they're using these PES or whatever the heck they're called. What are they going to then what are they going to resort to in 10 years' time? That's that's that that's my argument because it's never going to be enough. But surely they'll have to start utilising them more and more and more to the point where you're in liver failure or whatever.
SPEAKER_02:Well, a lot of bodybuilders, unfortunately, are are dying, yes. Yes. The last ten years there's been a lot of bodybuilders who have passed away.
SPEAKER_01:But there must have been.
SPEAKER_02:I'm sure that's and I'm sure that these drugs played a part.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, your man. He had liver problems, didn't he?
SPEAKER_02:Who's your man?
SPEAKER_01:In magazine Dreams. He was in liver failure. He had six sod over his liver.
SPEAKER_02:Rich piano, rich piano, rich piano, big bloke. I'm sure you'd have seen him as well. Tattoos. Yes. Yeah, big guy. Yeah, he was lots of lots of drugs. He he passed away a few years ago, but Jesus Christ. He was getting older as well. He was I think in his mid mid to late 40s.
SPEAKER_01:That's not old though.
SPEAKER_02:No, I know, but for a bodybuilder to be pumping that for a bodybuilder to be pumping that, it's just it's a risk, isn't it? To be that big as well, the older you get.
SPEAKER_01:So cultural influence. Heroes like Luke Skywalker in 1977 look slim and boyish. Modern equivalents are Marvel DC, who are much bigger, more muscular. Action figures have grown more muscular decade by decade. G.I. Joe, Batman, even children's dolls. Yes, children's dolls have gotten very beefy looking. Kids grow up with extremes as normal, feeling uh feeding feelings of inadequacy. Inadequacy. It's true though.
SPEAKER_02:How was that? How was that section? Again, it's annoying because it's it's a good section. You could do a whole episode on that section.
SPEAKER_01:I agree with it. It's it's like all dolls, for example. But now they're bringing out all of these different various shapes and sizes dolls, but a lot of the dolls are now action figure dolls.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they're twice the size.
SPEAKER_01:Do you remember Ken? I don't know if you had Barbie dolls when you were younger.
SPEAKER_02:No, I didn't know.
SPEAKER_01:But I had the Ken Barbie doll.
SPEAKER_02:Is he a beefcake now?
SPEAKER_01:He's a beefcake now. Right, yeah. Yeah, he was quite slim.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Previously. I'm surprised it didn't like. Do you know in the Barbie remake film? I'm surprised it didn't get somebody who was like fucking who was very, very big. I'm surprised it didn't get somebody who was big.
SPEAKER_02:I think Goslin was in good nick.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I'm not saying he wasn't, but I'm not surprised it didn't get somebody who was like a bodybuilder. Like something.
SPEAKER_02:Oh yeah, but Ken's not that low, is he? We're good to go, are we? We're good to go. Yes, we will touch upon the the whole male body dysmorphia stuff. More. More in the eating disorder episode. Or just in general, like I said, there'll be so much more time to have fun to do these episodes every day.
SPEAKER_01:So common pets in bodybuilding.
SPEAKER_02:Performing harsh and drugs. Finishing off on this.
SPEAKER_01:You say the words and I'll say what they are.
SPEAKER_02:Just say trend.
SPEAKER_01:Tren.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Extreme size and strength, but comes with aggression, sweats, poor sleep, and mental health issues. Why the heck would you be taking that?
SPEAKER_02:Aggression. Big muscles.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but Jesus, you're sweating them out. You can't poor sleep.
SPEAKER_02:Broid rage is a whole different episode entirely. Well, not really an episode, but Clen. Clembuterol.
SPEAKER_01:A stimulant fat burner, dangerous for the heart. Popular jury and cutting phases. Again, why would you take it? It's dangerous for your heart.
SPEAKER_02:It keeps your body up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Insulin allows bodybuilders to force carbs into muscles.
SPEAKER_03:This is not.
SPEAKER_01:Making it possible to eat thousands of calories more. Dangerous if mistimed. Hyperglycemia can be facial.
SPEAKER_02:That's bonkers, though, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:Did I ever tell you about the time where I had a hypoglycemic episode? It was horrible.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, not for this episode, I don't think. Not for this episode, but that's nuts. Absolutely nuts. All the PEDs is bonkers, but injecting insulin. Jesus. Jesus. If of course you haven't got diabetes. Bonkers.
SPEAKER_01:So steroids in general people are nuts. Steroids in general intensify male traits, aggression, vascularity, acne, hair loss. They enhance what men already have muscle, leanness, and strength, but they carry long-term risks for cardiovascular, liver, and endocrine health.
SPEAKER_02:Just a snapshot of some of the drugs. I'm not an expert in this, so there's lots. Well, I don't think there's lots more drugs. I think most bodybuilders are on similar amounts of drugs or similar drugs. They just maybe are on different amounts.
SPEAKER_00:Just insane.
SPEAKER_02:Anything to say about that, Fiona? The whole insulin thing, that that that really got me, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's more the aggression that gets me, actually. And poor sleep and mental health issues.
SPEAKER_02:It's a side effect, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But it's saying mental health issues, aggression, sweats, poor sleep, and then you've got dangerous of the heart, and then you've got hypoglycemia on top of that.
SPEAKER_02:It's just Well, that's for injecting insulin.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. But it's just why would you risk those? I suppose I don't get it. I don't get it.
SPEAKER_02:We'll get into the film review, but it depends, isn't it? As well, it depends how far you get. If you're just an amateur bodybuilder and you're doing a lot of this, you're doing all of this.
SPEAKER_01:But in today's how much can you justify? In today's modern society, for young people going into this type of industry, they're just gonna go straight onto the steroids, aren't they? They're not gonna try to maximize what their body naturally is, they're not gonna try and do it naturally.
SPEAKER_02:That's a good point, Fiona, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:They're going to just because of the social norms and everything, this this is now normalised, these bodies are now normalized, and these risks are there, but nobody says anything about them, about the risk.
SPEAKER_02:No, I think they do, they just don't care.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but kids, kids going into it these days, they're they're as I keep saying, it's just never going to be enough. Because they're never going to train, well, obviously they're gonna train, but they're never gonna allow their body to get to the natural point, they're going to go straight in for steroids.
SPEAKER_02:There's no time. If I'd have got into this at 18, oh yeah, 100%, that they'd have been going straight in. Definitely. If you start taking this seriously, bodybuilding, and you believe that you're the next big thing, and you believe you can be pro and and you just love it, you fall in love with the sport, and you can start going to gyms with bodybuilders, and they're like, Yeah, you look good, yeah. Shoulders nice, yeah, chest, yeah, it needs work, but yeah, you know, what are you wearing? Like, you know, 170. Gotta push those numbers up a little bit. Yeah, so let me get you in touch with someone and uh we'll get cracking, shall we? Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. You can't go to these competitions unless you go to competitions that are drug tested. There's no point turning up to these competitions that aren't drug tested, and you're not on drugs. Complete waste of time. You could have the best genetics in the world. You could be, again, 0.00, you could be Michael Hearn. You might get away with it initially if you've got unbelievable genetics and you just look great. But if you want to take it seriously, you need to get on the gear. Because everyone else is on the gear.
SPEAKER_01:That's my point, exactly. A young kid coming, not a young kid, but a young person who's starting out, everybody's already on it, so they're just gonna go on it. So they could have an amazing natural physique, but they'll never be able to experience that because they're gonna go straight into is it even called pharmac pharmaceutical measures? It's not the gear, they're gonna go straight to the gear. Well, more about everybody else's, and it's easily accessible as well.
SPEAKER_02:More about the bigorexia and the male body dysmorphia, which we'll get into at a later time. But yeah, I believe some of the stuff that I did, some of the stuff that I read was more and more people are getting into drugs. Just the average person, the average office worker, who sort of takes it, doesn't take it that seriously, might not even get on stage, doesn't have that much interest in becoming a bodybuilder as such, but they're just doing what everybody else is doing. Likes the idea of having big muscles, having a six pack. You just hope that a lot of these bodybuilders, if they're around people that are juiced to the girls and are doing competitions, you just hope that a lot of these wannabe bodybuilders are around people that are promoting getting your bloods done, having all your regular health checkups. All this might seem absurd and all these drugs, but all these bodybuilders, especially as you get higher and higher, will be having their health markers checked all the time.
SPEAKER_01:But what if something comes up? An abnormality. Well, what are they gonna do about it?
SPEAKER_02:There you go.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely nothing.
SPEAKER_02:Some might call it a day, others might go, okay, well, what can I do? What are the options? Can I still blast this drug but just less of it? Oh yeah, maybe. Can I take something else? So you hope at the very least, even the people that are just that just bodybuild over the weekend, who might be thinking about taking drugs.
SPEAKER_00:Don't.
SPEAKER_02:Ideally don't, yeah, but you hope they're around people that are, yeah, if you want to take this, fine, it's it's your own body, it's your own decision. But make sure you're getting your blood stun. Make sure you're getting all this stuff in place. Make sure all this is in place. It might seem like all these bodybuilders, all they do is just inject stuff and train and all the rest of it, but they've got all this other stuff in place as well.
SPEAKER_01:So we're coming towards the end now, but we're gonna focus on the women's side of things at another episode, aren't we?
SPEAKER_02:Female bodybuilding, yes. That was very male heavy, wasn't it, Fiona? Very male heavy, but we are running out of time. Yes, running out of time and energy, you know. I've got a revision. So and we haven't even talked about the lecture.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:The actual lecture notes. That's just that's just musings.
SPEAKER_01:Got excited, didn't we?
SPEAKER_02:That's just musings about bodybuilding in general.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, so we'll come back and we'll we're not missing out the ladies. No, we're not we will come back to you. Very interesting.
SPEAKER_02:Very interesting. But uh, yes, that was that was a lot.
SPEAKER_01:So this is natural.
SPEAKER_02:So there's a table here with this is based around men. This is realistic muscle gain per year for a natural, for a natty. A natty didn't mention the fake natty. We did, did we? Fake natty. Did we say fake natty?
SPEAKER_01:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:So natural natty and then fake natty, people like Mike O'Hearn, potentially.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, that's what we said. We talked about the liver king, fake nattis, and famous frauds liver king and mic ohnate.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, fake nattties, yes, that's that's the term. Yeah, we did. People who say, Oh, I'm natural, fake natty.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So in year one, the realistic muscle gain per year is between 10 to 25 pounds, which is 4.5 to 11 kg.
SPEAKER_02:Newbie gains. That's that's a good amount, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01:That is a good amount. 11 kg. That's a lot. That's a lot. Jeez. But we do start to decrease. Year two, five to ten pounds, two to four point five kg. Year three, two point five to seven point five pounds, which is one kg to three point five kg, and so on. So the total muscle gain in a lifetime would be 13.5 to 25 kg of muscle mass.
SPEAKER_02:Of muscle gain, should I say 13.5 to 23 kg?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Over a lifetime, which is your total.
SPEAKER_02:20 to 50 pounds.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. It's a lot.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Yeah, it's not bad, is it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but you achieve most of that in your first year.
SPEAKER_02:Unfortunately, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's a bit of a slog. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because when you get to year four, year four, year five, it decreases dramatically, doesn't it? It's one to five pounds. Yeah. A half a pound to a pound.
SPEAKER_02:So I feel like hopefully I've got I've got one more bulk in me. Because I don't think I've I don't think I've I don't think I've got anywhere near my genetic ceiling. So even though I've been now training for several years, I just don't I've never given it I've never gone all in. Not Not on the bulking side. On the on the getting lean six back, yeah, to a degree. I hope there's yeah, I hope there's some scope for a a bit of extra muscle. Probably not though.
SPEAKER_00:No. You're old now, hun.
SPEAKER_02:No, come on, there is. Because I there is probably I pretty much became detrained when we went travelling.
SPEAKER_01:Well you're still training every morning.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but not no, I wasn't there, was I? Terrible. It was there were the f some of the food was okay, but in terms of the training and being consistent with it, oh no, awful.
SPEAKER_01:No, you couldn't really be dull every day.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah. And really, since I come back, it's been okay, but with the business, pushable health, M and U, it's I've never been able to go all in. It's just like, oh, I was just getting it done.
SPEAKER_01:That's just life doll, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02:So yet again, 2026, Fiona is the year see you on stage. Drugs, bodybuilding, food, rock and roll, baby. This is it. One last go.
SPEAKER_01:What's the word? Uh I don't know what the word is.
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