From Surplus To Speedos: Bodybuilding Stage Prep For Dummies

Want a no‑nonsense roadmap from off‑season to stage day? We walk through a practical 15‑week bodybuilding prep, showing you how to set calories, train hard without burning out, and use carb timing and refeeds for performance instead of excuses. No magic resets here—just evidence, lived experience, and clear tactics that keep you leaner, fuller and sane when it matters.

We start by building the base: high training volume with progressive overload, minimal cardio unless body fat is high, and predictable meals that you can repeat under pressure. Then we introduce a calm deficit targeting 0.5 to 1% weight loss per week, push protein to 2.0 to 2.4 g per kg to protect muscle, set fats near 20 to 25%, and taper carbs in line with session demands. You’ll hear when to front‑load or back‑load carbs, why timing is more about adherence than physiology, and how two‑day refeeds can lift performance and preserve lean mass without turning into a cheat‑fest.

At six weeks out, we tighten the system: track everything, rotate carbs for heavy days, keep fats low to prioritise glycogen, and narrow food choices to avoid GI drama. We demystify peak week with a simple, testable plan: low‑fibre carb sources like cream of rice and rice cakes, steady sodium and water, and small final tweaks that prevent spillover. If you’re lean enough, you’re already there—peak week won’t save a soft look, and it won’t ruin a sharp one if you keep it simple.

We close with the piece most athletes neglect: post‑show. Skip the endless “reverse” dribble; return to your new maintenance based on your current weight, have your celebration meal, and stabilise with structure so you don’t rebound for two weeks. Along the way, we reflect on Magazine Dreams—the thin line between discipline and obsession, and why a support network matters when your goal demands isolation.

If this helps, follow the show, share it with a training partner, and leave a quick review—what’s your biggest prep challenge right now?

With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully "Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life."

Expect Foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life's daily rot. 

This weekly audio & video expansion on the world-famous 'The Daily (ish) Rot' email and video ramblings also includes: 

Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet Advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes (short and to the point)
Narcissistic wisdom. 

WHO THE FU*K ARE WE?

Howdy,

I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach (not a life coach) who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude towards exercise and nutrition! 

Empowering You to give the middle finger to your yo-yo diet and half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days! 

Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits? 

Only to start the same rotten cycle again?

YOUR COMPLIMENTARY 30 DAY DIET KICK-UP-THE-ARSER 

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Transcript

Setting The Stage: 15 Weeks Out

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I think unfortunately we're just gonna just read these out. Or you're just gonna read these out. Yeah, yeah. I'm not gonna try and jump in. These are the notes from the lecture. Sorry, MNU. I feel bad now. This is bad because this is this is MNU.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

But you have to give history.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Well, I know, but this is based on being an MNU student.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

And what does that introduce evidence-based?

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Yes, that's fine, but we should be spending more time on this, not on Sure, we'll see how we go. Sticking drugs in your bum. We spent the first hour talking about that.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

No, we didn't do. We didn't. Anywho, according to the MNU. So we're 15 weeks out.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

So this is just this is sorry, this is just this is bodybuilding prep, as we said at the start. So we're just gonna go from 15 weeks out all the way to show day.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Okay. So 15 weeks out, calories.

Building Habits And Training Foundations

unknown 0:55

Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

15 weeks out, calories in a small surplus or maintenance depending on starting condition. Training volume high, focus on progressive overload. Cardio minimal at this stage, only if body fat is very high. The main goal is consistency with diet and training before actual prep cut starts. Start tidying up food choices, aiming for predictability with carbs and protein. So basically you're getting rid of the bad habits.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yes, depending on your start point.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31

If you've got a lot of fat to shift, get on that bike. You might need to get a move on. Might need to be a little bit more extreme with it.

Introducing The Deficit And Protein Targets

SPEAKER_03 1:41

15 to 6 weeks out, gradual calorie deficit introduced. Aim for slow fat loss, around 0.5 to 1% body weight per week. Protein intake is increased to preserve lean mass, so it's increased to 2 to 2.4 grams per kg. Protein now matters more, but also needs to be kept mindful of overall calories. Carb intake tapered down week by week. The fats keep moderate, between 20 to 25% of total calories. Vegetables become more important. High fibre, low calorie, help with satiety and regular digestion. A useful way to keep volume up as calories fall. Food choices should become more consistent, such as rice, potatoes, oats, chicken, fish. Carb manipulation. Carb bunching, front loading, back loading can be trialled throughout prep, not just peak week. Some athletes perform better with carbs around training. Others spread intake evenly. Doesn't matter much physiologically, but can help adherence and energy. Studies show seven days of carb overfeeding restores glycogen, but doesn't enhance muscle protein synthesis beyond protein. The benefit is performance and training quality, not added growth. Refeeds.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Do we need to say anything about that, Fiona?

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Yes. What is front loading and backloading? What is that? And carb bunching? Is that just eating carbs all at once?

SPEAKER_00 3:24

Eating a good amount of your carbs in one sitting.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

Okay, and what does front loading mean and backloading then?

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Means having a good portion of your carbs for breakfast, for example. So just at the start or the end of the day?

SPEAKER_03 3:36

Ah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

So preference. Like anyone, it's preference.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Do you want to have a lot of your calories, carbs for dinner? Also depends when you train. So for the average person, it might not matter. On average, you might get home and have your dinner as your biggest meal of the day. Calories, carbs. If you're getting ready for a bodybuilding show and you're a bodybuilder, it might depend on when you train. The further you get into your diet and the further you get into your prep, you want to have your carbs around training. So before and after. So if you're training in the morning. Yeah. Makes sense to front load them and have more for breakfast. If you're training in the afternoon, early evening.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Backload.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Okay. Okay. Understood. Entiendo.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

That makes sense? Yes. Okay, lovely.

SPEAKER_03 4:33

Refeeds. Structured one to two day refeeds with higher carbs and fats kept low are common. Goal is glycogen replenishment, mental relief and training performance. Best practice is to use clean carb sources.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Clean carb. I don't know what clean carb.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

Such as white rice, potatoes, rice cakes. Avoid oats in large quantities, as 1 kg oats carry significant fat compared with 800 grams of white rice.

SPEAKER_00 5:05

Yes, just be careful with refeeds. That makes sense? Yes. With refeeds, high carb, minimal fat.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

Yes. Durlwanger.

Carb Timing: Front, Back, Or Bunched

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Oh, we've got some studies here. Oh, thank God. This is MNU, so this is nice. Evidence base.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Durlwanger?

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Durlwanger 2000. 24 hour.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

It's been a struggle, hasn't it, this episode? It's been a real struggle for you.

SPEAKER_03 5:32

Durlwanger 2000. 24 hour carb refeed increases leptin and energy expenditure, but fades quickly once dieting resumes.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

We've talked about, haven't we, leptin and ghrelin?

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

Leptin goes down, ghrelin goes up. Oh, it's horrible. Yes. Which is not good, is it, Fiona? No. Why is that not good?

SPEAKER_03 5:51

Because you're hungry.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

What does ghrelin do?

SPEAKER_03 5:56

It increases your hormone tingy. Your hunger.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, yeah. It makes you hungry, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Increases your hunger hormone. So yeah, so that goes up.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Nightmare. Leptin, what does leptin do?

SPEAKER_03 6:09

With your energy.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Ah, come on. Come on. We've talked about these hormones loads of times. Think about it.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

Insulin.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

If gremlin, gremlin, gremlin, what does that do? It makes sense. Increases. Yeah. What does that decreases? Leptin society. Society. Are you winding me up? You winding me up?

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Decreases.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah. Okay. So leptin decreases, which is not good, is it?

SPEAKER_03 6:38

No.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah. So it's not released as much?

SPEAKER_03 6:43

No.

unknown 6:44

It's not.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

So you don't feel satisfied after eating. And ghrelin goes up.

SPEAKER_03 6:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

I think I'm gremlins are at me now.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Well, yes. Yes, I'm I'm quite hungry. Anything else to say about that, Fiona?

SPEAKER_03 6:55

No, I'm going to go on to the next study.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Okay.

Refeeds: What They Do And Don’t

SPEAKER_03 7:04

1998. Leptin spikes draw and refeeds a transient, not a reset, just temporary mood or satiety lift.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

That's interesting.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

Satiety lift.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Satiety, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Satiety lift. That is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

Because a lot of people will say have a refeed. Because it will reset you. Reset your metabolism. But it doesn't it will speed up your metabolism.

SPEAKER_03 7:29

Which is temporary.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Yes. Refeeds for for some might be like I'm struggling because I don't know who I'm talking to.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Me.

SPEAKER_00 7:38

No, I know, but you know what I mean. I'm like, I'm talking about all this stuff, and it's like for the average person, it's like, what are you talking about? Refeeds. And then for bodybuilders, it's like, oh, this guy's not a bodybuilder. Who cares what he has to say?

SPEAKER_03 7:48

Well, why don't you just put it in between?

SPEAKER_00 7:50

Reasonable, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

If you can.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

Okay. I will do, yes. Yeah, so refeeds, if you're interested, if you're interested in any of this. Refeeds. Some people will use a refeed as an excuse just to eat a lot of calories. Oh, I need to have a refeed. I've been dieting for six hours. Refeed time. I need to reset my metabolism. It's slow down. No, I don't. No. Yes, there's probably been some adaption because you're now a smaller person compared to where you were ten weeks ago. But when I was more into it, when I was more into the weeds around bulking up and doing my own refeed, this is yeah, that's it. This is this is fine. This is based on my own experience. I would have told myself, based on what I was reading and listening and watching, oh, I need to I need a refeed. Definitely. Refeed time.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

I remember those times.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

I would have seen stuff along the lines of, oh, you know, your metabolism is slow right down. You've got to reset it, you gotta you've got to give it a boost, you gotta kick start it. Alright, okay.

SPEAKER_03 9:00

Were they not cheat days?

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Yeah, different oh different topic. Yeah, cheat days as well. Yes. So you can convince yourself that you need these cheat days, these refeed days. That's a good point because a refeed day might turn into a cheat day. Aspiring bodybuilders or people that might have any any interest in this will diet for six hours, two weeks maybe out of push and go, oh right, okay, that's it. God, I'm tired, fatigued. Refeed time. When in reality they actually mean cheat day. Or or a refeed turns into a cheat day. Calories through the roof, fats aren't dropped. Just everything. Everything's eaten. Oh, that was a good refeed. Was it a refeed or was it a cheat day? Oh, but I was boosting my metabolism. I needed it, my leptin levels were really low. Okay. What's the damage? How much weight have you put on? Yeah, a fair bit. Right, okay. God, it it's really unsettling when you look at me. It really puts me off.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

I'm making eye contact.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Okay. Right, was any of that useful?

SPEAKER_03 10:16

Yes, it was.

SPEAKER_00 10:17

Right, okay. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

So Campbell 2020, two-day refeed in resistance trained athletes, improved lean mass retention versus continuous restriction.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Very nice. Okay. Yeah. So That was easy to read. Yeah, refeed's fine. This is good. We're getting the studies in. MNU, we we talk about evidence-based stuff. It's all evidence-based, Fiona, but we forget to reference the studies. And that's not a good look, is it?

Hormones: Leptin, Ghrelin, And Appetite

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Training intensity remains high, but volume in needs slight reductions at recovery capacit as recovery capacity drops. Six weeks out. Things become stricter. That should say things become more stricter. Because it's fairly strict.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Chat GBT.

SPEAKER_03 11:03

Things become even more stricter.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Even more stricter.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Things become stricter.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

Yeah. Yeah. Nail it.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Calories.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Oh, come on.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Calories often push lower, cardio increased. Vegetables and fibre intake managed carefully. Still important for digestion, but excess can cause bloating at this lean stage.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Right, this is important, isn't it? The calories. So six weeks out.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Yes. It's all well and good.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

It's all well and good thinking. Oh, vegetables don't count.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

They do.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Protein, oh, you keep that high. Every calorie starts to count. You've got to count those vegetables because they add up.

SPEAKER_03 11:43

Protein remains high with carb intake closely monetized.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

It does remain high. It does remain high, but you've got you've got to track it.

SPEAKER_03 11:51

Carbs often rotated, high, medium, low days to match training demands.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

That makes sense. So for example, if you're for leg day. We all hate leg day.

SPEAKER_03 12:02

Well, you're going to have a high carb that day.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Makes sense if you're going to have if you're calorie cycling, carb cycling. Makes sense to maybe up the calories, slash carbs on leg day or days that you know are going to be a bit more high intense, a bit more volume, etc.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

Fat intake is kept low to allow to allow higher carb intakes when needed.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Calories, yeah. There is something called fat loading, which we're not going to get into.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Don't know why I brought up.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

Appetite becomes mechanical. Eating for function, not pleasure. Muscle fullness. Talking to the mic? Muscle fullness. That's the first time you've said it today. First time.

SPEAKER_00 12:51

Oh no, I'm just I'm just noticing it a little bit.

Evidence Check: Key Refeed Studies

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Muscle fullness, harder to maintain as carbs are lower and strength often dips. Training, more conservative with volume, avoids injury risk. Food choices narrow even further. They become predictable, repeatable foods only. Rice, chicken, whitefish, which is reasonable. Broccoli and chicken.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Chicken and broccoli, yeah. It's reasonable.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

Did you not want to say something about chicken and broccoli?

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Oh God. Yeah. Do I?

SPEAKER_03 13:25

Well, I go on about peak week first.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

No, very quickly. Yes, I chicken and broccoli. I sometimes chicken and broccoli. Chicken and broccoli. I sometimes get confused by some online coaches and who they're trying to target. So they will share videos or they will talk about chicken and broccoli. You can still enjoy all the foods that you love. You haven't got to eat chicken and broccoli. If I showed you a video of someone at a wedding or whatever, out socially, and they whip out their Tupperware box and it's got chicken and broccoli in, I'm sure you would say, Oh, that's insane. That's insane.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yes. And I think the general consensus would be, yeah, that's that's extreme. That's way too far. Like that person has gone way too far. Chill out. So I don't know who these people are targeting. If they're not trying to target bodybuilders, who's giving these people this advice? So this would imply, in my mind, it must be if you're like we've agreed to 2026 photo shoot, stepping on stage, this would appeal to the average person who likes the idea of doing one of these photo shoots. And we will eventually start releasing those photos that we did. Remember the photos? Do you remember the photos, Fiona? No, she does.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

How could I forget those photos? Oh, she does. Okay. I'm just surprised that you mentioned them on an MNU podcast.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

That's fine. Well, they haven't been released yet.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:42

So we'll we'll start releasing them eventually. So it must be, they must be targeting these online coaches, people that the average person, like yourself, who likes the idea of maybe doing a photo shoot, getting leaner, doing some form of 12-week diet, whatever. And they might have had a coach, you may have had a coach Ben who has told you from the from the get-go, right, it's 12 weeks, all you can eat is chicken and broccoli.

SPEAKER_03 15:05

Gorge Ben never said that. But yes, I get what you're saying.

Six Weeks Out: Stricter Tracking And Cycling

SPEAKER_00 15:08

That's because if it's not, then it doesn't work. Who are they trying to target? Me telling you, you haven't got to eat chicken and broccoli, you can still eat all the foods that you love. Well, you'd go, okay. Thanks. Would that mean anything to you?

unknown 15:24

No.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Would you would you asso well I don't know, it's it's hard, isn't it? I understand that people think dieting means restriction straight away. A diet's people hear the word diet or they get to they start dieting in their minds. Restriction. Based restriction, based on their own experiences, means right, that's it. Cut all the foods that you enjoy, they're out. All the foods that you love, out.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Predictability.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

Starvation, yeah. Starving.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Chicken and broccoli every day.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

So there's that. But it does annoy me because people will their biggest selling point might be no chicken and broccoli. You can eat the foods that you love. Well, no, no, no. No. Not necessarily. No. If you're getting ready for a photo shoot, no, you can't eat all the foods that you love. If you want to get super lean and you want to get six back and you want to look good, as good as possible, no. You can do if you want to. You can, up until photo shoot day, eat all the foods that you love. But you'll be you'll be miserable. If you follow this whole if it fits your macros approach from start to finish, hmm, tough. So it's annoying. If you're just trying to feel a bit better, drop address size, have more energy. Well, what's the more buzzwords for Yonah? What do people want to do?

SPEAKER_03 16:52

Get holiday ready.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

Okay, yeah, fine, yeah. Uh drop address size. Yeah, said that.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

Oh, did you? Oh, listen. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

Right, but all the buzzwords. Yeah. All the buzzwords, yes. Me mentioning, yeah, and you haven't got to eat chicken and broccoli. Surely that's just meaningless. It's like, well, yeah, okay. I had no intention on eating chicken and broccoli. Ever. It's meaningless. Yes. But if I then say you can also avoid that, okay, fine, whatever, and still eat the foods that you love. That's not going to work for this middle ground for people that want to do a photo shoot. Unless they're not that fast.

SPEAKER_03 17:37

Yeah, but if they're going to do a photo shoot, then they'll want to be fast, won't I?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

Yeah. So I'm just I'm just confused. Did you see what I'm trying to get? I'm just confused by a lot of these coaches who just offer this look at this chicken and broccoli. I had no intention of eating chicken and broccoli. That means nothing. That must mean there is a subsection of people that have maybe prepped for a photo shoot or have done something along those lines, who have been told by someone that they must only eat chicken and broccoli. And they have to cut out all the foods that they love. And then I will tell you, no, no chicken and broccoli, all the foods that you love.

Chicken And Broccoli, Myths And Reality

SPEAKER_03 18:08

I think that's just because if you're dieting, that's what that's what people do, isn't it? They just cut out carrots and they'd score for chicken and broccoli.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Maybe I'm just the alternative: pork and broccoli? Pork and green beans? Yes, but the alternative is is eat all the foods that you love. No.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

But why does it have to be chicken and broccoli?

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Because it's the cliche. Because it's the cliche bodybuilder diet, isn't it? Maybe I'm just looking into it too much. Depending on what your goals are, you might have to give up some of the foods that you love because you might be over consuming them. And you might not be able to control how much of it you shove in your gob. And if you're getting ready for a photo shoot, which a lot of people do, they enjoy it. Eating the foods that you love from start to finish during that period will be tough.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

Especially during peak week. So peak week.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 19:01

Just get back into it. Goal is to maximise the appearance on stage. Full muscles, low subcutaneous water, sharp definition. Approaches vary, can be front loading carbs, back loading, or steady intake. Key point is it doesn't matter as much as people think. If lean enough, peak weak won't save or ruin the luck. Carbs loaded carefully to fill glycogen without spilling over. That means too many carbs equals a smooth watery luck.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

It can do, yeah, if you push it too much.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

Carb sources, carb sources usually low fibre, low fat to avoid GI distress. So cream of rice, rice cakes, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

Oh, cream of rice, that's that's a very popular bodybuilding food.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Is it?

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Bodybuilder food.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Sodium and water kept consistent until final days. Manipulation can backfire. Small tweaks, slightly higher carbs the day before stage, pumping carbs backstage like rice cakes and jam. Oh, you used to have jam, didn't you? Main risks trying to do too much in the final week, overcomplication leads to overspilling, bloating, or flatness. Athletes who are lean enough already will look good with a straightforward approach. Just so much stress. Just so much stress. Is there like specialist nutritionist people there to help them on the zooming? Like these big bodybuilder people.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

You hope that a lot of bodybuilders will have a prep coach, yes. They will coach them from start to finish. You hope that most bodybuilders, professionals, definitely, will have a prep coach. And also what happens next.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

Yeah, what happens next? We spoke about this briefly.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

We're running out of time, aren't we, Fiona? We really are, but for some reason, the notes aren't there. I made the notes, but they're not there. About reverse dieting.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Yeah, we spoke about it in the last episode.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

We have spoken about it before, yes, yes. So many prep coaches, you hope, will offer support post-show to avoid that massive rebound.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

I'm gonna ask a very silly question. I feel it's also a very silly question, but no question is a silly question, does it? So is it just one show that they compete compete for, or can there be multiple shows? Throughout the year, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they have to keep doing this?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yes. Bolt cut, bolt cut.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Freaking hell. So you'd never have like January does a show, February does a show, it'd be January, then there's a show in April.

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 21:42

Yeah, okay. Yeah. So it would never be like maybe sometimes you have a show and then two weeks later. Potentially.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Depend. Yeah. Potentially. I imagine the higher you go up, it's not realistic to then bounce between, oh, there's a show on this weekend, then next week, and there's another show. Because then bodybuilders will want to go off and they want to want to have a massing period, bulking up. So they will maybe only do two shows a year.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

That makes more sense.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

To grow some more tissue. Or they will go on stage, like we'll get to in the film in a minute, and then someone will say, Yeah, you look good, but calves, yikes. Not good. Shoulders, ugh, needs work. Right, okay. So them going from that to right, I'll see you next week, next show. Like, well, well, that's not gonna work. No, no way. This is gonna take six months, at least.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Yeah, it makes sense.

unknown 22:34

Where did that go?

Peak Week: Keep It Simple

SPEAKER_00 22:35

What bit there was a bit about how the the ideal male physique body had changed over the years. Going back to Henry the Eighth and how peasants with big muscles were because they were peasants, they had big arms, big muscles, but they were peasants, so they were like, oh well, it's not very nice. Muscle, not interested. Henry VIII, big bloke, didn't move a lot, had massive calves, big legs. So that was seen as ideal. People were bewitched by Henry VIII's calves. Were they? Yes, oh, strong legs, big calves. Yeah, that looks lovely.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

I never knew that. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Hmm. That was the line. But for some reason, like the reverse dieting, not here.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

Anyway, reverse dieting. Very quickly, and then that's it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 23:34

Study highlights.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Some people will say that you should slowly increase calories post-show. So have your your food, have whatever meal you want, and then you need to slowly increase calories. I think for the most part, that's not the way to do it.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Why?

SPEAKER_00 23:53

You just need to return back to your new maintenance. So not the maintenance pre-show or before you started your prep.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Wouldn't that be be pro pre pre pre-peak week?

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Hang on, sorry, what?

SPEAKER_03 24:06

Would that not be your new maintenance? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Right, yes. Pre-peak week. So your current maintenance based on your current weight.

SPEAKER_03 24:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yes. But other people will say, no, you must slowly increase calories. Probably not. Probably not. That's probably not the answer.

SPEAKER_03 24:27

What would happen if you went to, I don't know, Burger King. Would you just get really, really fat? Or what would happen? Would you become sick because your body's not used to it? Or what would happen?

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Well you have to be very careful. You have to be very careful.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Like all your work would be undone. Would it be?

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Or it depends how far you push it.

SPEAKER_03 24:47

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

After one meal.

SPEAKER_03 24:49

No. No.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

After one binge, everyone's gonna have the meal. Everyone's gonna have a a big meal. I imagine. Oh imagine. Pocha. Pocho meal, yes. What would be your Pocho meal, Fiona?

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Steak.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Steak. Cheese. Oh, steak, cheese, bread, onion, mushroom, bread. But the point is it's if you then have that for the next two weeks. So you just said about will you ruin all your your your progress? If you then go on a two-week binger form, that could be a problem. Because you will put on a lot of weight. Yes, a lot of it will be water, but yeah. A lot of it will be fat as well. If you're having one big meal or whatever, having a cheat day and then staying at maintenance, your new maintenance, that's the way to go. But once again, if you haven't got a prep coach, if you haven't got the support, you don't really know what you're doing, tough. You've just slowly starved yourself to death for 12, 16 weeks.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

For nothing.

SPEAKER_00 25:57

To then go, well, if you just increase your calories now by a couple of hundred and just stay there for as long as possible, you're good. Yikes. Okay. Just have a burger. Treat yourself, have a burger.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Could you not have a refeed once a week? Well, you do have a burger or something.

Post‑Show Strategy: Reverse Dieting Sense

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Yes, but even then the refeed really needs to be around maintenance. So if you're already at maintenance, if you're returning to maintenance, you don't really need a refeed, do you? The whole refeed was based on the fact that you're in a deficit. So during prep, you're in a deficit. So you you then go, you then have a refeed and return to maintenance.

SPEAKER_03 26:31

It's too much.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

It's a lot. It's too much. It's a lot. Right, that's enough, Fiona. That is enough. Because we've we've really pushed the time though, haven't we?

SPEAKER_03 26:39

Yeah, I'm knackered.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Oh wow. I really don't want to talk about the film. Good film.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

We've just talked about it very briefly.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

Yeah, unfortunately. It's always the case though, isn't it? Fiona.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

And we're not doing these studies.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Oh my god, yeah. Studies. Study highlights.

SPEAKER_03 26:52

We've done we've done we've said most of them though, didn't we?

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Did we?

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Yeah. Well, I'll just say them anyways. Study highlights. Dural Wanger Atal 2000. Short-term carb overfeeding both boosts leptin and energy expenditure, but effects vanish quickly. Chime atal 1998. Refeed induced leptin rise is transient, not a long-term fix. Campbell Atal 2020. Two-day refeeds during restriction improves lean mass retention versus continuous restriction. Phillips 2016. 1.6 to 2.2 grams per kg of protein is optimal for hypertrophy preservation higher when dieting. Helms 2023, small surplus of about 3 to 5% increase of maintenance.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

5 to 10%, I think, Fiona. I'm sure we're getting 3 to 5.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

Do I say 3? 5 to 10% means optimal and off-season overshooting calories just adds fat.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

So a small surplus.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

Okay. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Okay, great. That's great. It's a shame. Good film. Good film, but it's right at the end as always. And that that went on. That went on.

SPEAKER_03 28:15

Indeed, I'm starving. So what is this film then? And why did you choose it?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Magazine Dreams or Magazine Dream.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Yes. So it was released in 2023. 7 out of 10 on the IMDB. Oh my god, my internet's gone. Seven out of ten on the IMDB. What do you think of that, Ray?

SPEAKER_00 28:35

You seem shocked. Too low, too high?

SPEAKER_03 28:38

I don't know. I don't know. Because it's one of those. Okay, so, anyways. So an amateur bodybuilder battles both the limits of his physical body and his own inner demons to gain recognition. Director Elijah Bynum. And the main actor in this is Jonathan Majors. And then we've got your man that comes in.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

You've got to separate the art from the artists again. Similar to Kevin Spacey, usual suspects. Oh Jonathan. Yokes.

SPEAKER_03 29:06

Yeah, so Killian Maddox. Yeah. Right, where am I? Michael, your mate's in there. Michael's in there.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Michael Hearn's in it. Yes, there we go. It comes back around. Back to Michael Hearn.

SPEAKER_03 29:18

So the thing about this film is it is a slow burner, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 29:24

It's too long. Way too long. Doesn't quite know when to finish.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Yeah, it's taking forever to finish. But oh, I have to find it. In your saying, I said that there was a saying that I really liked of yours, and it was very true, and I have to go back and find it because I think it really resonates with the film.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Oh, right, lovely. Thank you. Where is it? You're welcome.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

The obsession is disguised as discipline.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

This guy is clearly obsessed.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Yes. The problem is he's unwell. Yeah, he there's something Which makes it really unsettling to watch.

Comp Season Planning And Feedback Loops

SPEAKER_03 29:59

It is it is unwelling. Unsettling watch, isn't it? It's quite a it's quite a hard watch, this movie, but also it shows the dedication and determination and everything we spoke about in the podcast, how hard it can be because it really shows it, doesn't it? Like just the isolation, the social awkwardness, the everything else, and then it's just not good enough. You're there on stage saying that you don't have good enough shoulders or good enough biceps, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Oh, he didn't forget that.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Yeah, it's a delt, yeah, his death, and then he became fixated on that by a man who was old with no muscle, he had no muscle mass whatsoever to be critiqued by someone like that. Right, well, it must be it must be extremely it must be extremely disheartening.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

And it shows that you he he he nearly binned his whole career. He nearly went and shot this man. That was his mindset. No, towards the end, yes. That was his mindset. And it just goes to show how I don't know what the word is. I don't know what the word is. It's it's it's quite cons not concerning. But it's it's an interesting film. It was it was it was made very well.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

It was yes, it was made very well. Yes, there's an extra layer on top of just the whole bodybuilding angle because Maddox is very unwell.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

Well, yeah, but then surely that would that would tie into the use of the medication as well, the isolation and everything else on top of that.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

Yes, he has no friends. You know, there's it's not a case where every bodybuilder doesn't have any friends or doesn't have some form of social life or a circle of people that supports them or family, his mum and dad's both, his dad shot his mum, yeah. But his granddad is disabled. It it's just from top to bottom, it's it's hard.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

There's a lot going on, but then but in Killian Maddox Maddox's case, he's amateur, so he's trying to get big. So in order to get big, he has to isolate himself, he cannot have a social circle. His life is what he's doing. Yeah, I know, but he can't so when he goes on a date, that's all he can talk about. That's all he can fix it on because he's fixated. But we can't it's an obsession.

SPEAKER_00 32:22

We can't escape the fact that he's very unwell.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

Yes, he is very unwell because of everything on top of that as well.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Okay, because of the I think the film's really uncomfortable because he's doing the bodybuilding stuff, which is fine. I think that's interesting, but he's he's just very unwell. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:37

I agree. Yeah, so that's but I think doing this as well is making him even more unwell.

Film Chat: Magazine Dreams And Obsession

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Of course, yes, that's what I'm trying to get at. Okay. A lot of bodybuilders will will do it for themselves. They will they're on stage for themselves, and they hope that people around them will be, oh, do you know what? I support you, yeah. Go for it. I'm here, you need to eat all your wackiness, your chicken and broccoli. Do what you need to do. Put your speedos on, put your fake tan on. I'm your biggest fan. That's a bonus. But most bodybuilders to get to that point, it's all about them because it has to be. It all has to be about them.

SPEAKER_03 33:13

God, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

But if they're lucky, they will have friends and family that will at least go, do you know what? I'm there for you.

SPEAKER_03 33:19

Yeah, but he keeps going, he didn't have any support, support network, did he?

SPEAKER_00 33:23

The thing that he's doing, he's doing it for himself, yeah, as most bodybuilders will be, but he's doing it because he wants he's hoping that he will be able to get some friends. That's the difference, isn't it? He he's doing it because he wants, yes, the fame. Everyone, everyone loves the fame of fortune. You step on stage, you want to become Mr. Olympia, you want to be on the magazines, magazine dreams, but he's doing it because he wants some friends.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

Well, he's extremely vulnerable as well.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

And he thinks that becoming famous, becoming a famous bodybuilder.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

Will make him happy.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

Yeah. Isn't it? Well, will make him happy and also give him friends. People will want to be his friend.

SPEAKER_03 33:57

Yeah, but then it's your like I do, I did wonder when I was watching it, is there some does he have a diagnosis of something? Because he is very vulnerable. Obviously, you've got Mike coming in who takes advantage of him sexually, or is he just doing that?

SPEAKER_00 34:10

That's an excellent.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Or is he just doing it in order to get the fame status? Or is it is it showing that vulnerability and that mental illness side? Or that mental illness?

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yes, I think he's doing it because he likes bodybuilding.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:28

But judging by the film, I think one of the reasons he's doing it is because he wants some friends.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

He wants people to say, Oh, Maddox, you're great. You look great, and also can I be your friend?

SPEAKER_03 34:40

I suppose you've got that scene where he first meet first meets Mike and Mike's, Oh, you look good. Oh, really? Thank you. For somebody who in his stations, who's saying that he looks good, who's complimenting him, that must make him feel very good. And then obviously he's going to do everything he can to maintain friendship, probably.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

So he's sending Mike loads of letters. Is he trying to call him as well? Calling him, he's calling him. Yeah, he's got his number by this point, has he? No, he's not. He gets his number after, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Oh yeah, no. So he's sending him letters and then uh Mike rings him to come to this place and then gets his number.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

It's a little bit strange, isn't it? Because it's like, I don't know, maybe because Mike's in town and he's like, oh, do you know what?

SPEAKER_03 35:19

I'm he's gonna play in that vulnerability.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

He assumes he will be able to hook up with him. Maybe just likes the idea that he's in town and he's had all these letters which he's not creeped out by or scared by. It's almost too unrealistic. That that that whole scene is is actually just a bit silly, really.

SPEAKER_03 35:39

They should have had him, Mike, come in sooner in the film and a bit more interaction so it wasn't just letters that did meh or something.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Yeah, maybe. Or he sees Mike at a show or something and he's queuing up.

SPEAKER_03 35:51

Yeah, that would have made the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Or just not have that at all, just not have that scene at all. It's almost like they had to try and get more of Mike O'Hearn in the film. The Michael Hearn scene is unnecessary. It doesn't fit, it's unrealistic.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

I disagree because I think it's showing the what's the word? How far he's willing to go.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

Yeah, I suppose.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

Or it's either showing how far he's willing to go or his level of vulnerability about how mentally ill he is.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

Right, yes, both.

SPEAKER_03 36:28

But I think it's got I think it's got a big part to play in both that he's very vulnerable and he's also willing to do whatever it takes to get that, but then unfortunately he was pied off by him and then he got mad.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

But it's just shoehorned in. It is it's he doesn't need the film doesn't need that scene, and we can just go straight to the end where he gets very angry, he's very cross with Mike because he doesn't respond to any of his letters. Well, yeah, and then he's he's lost the plot at the end, his life's gone to crap, his life's gone to poop, and then he's very cross at Mike because he didn't respond to his letters, so then he takes the gun and then he's gonna shoot Mike.

SPEAKER_03 37:09

But he doesn't.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

It's not realistic the scene that we get with Mike.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

Or he should have shot Mike.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

Good to see Mike. Looks great. It's just it just doesn't feel realistic. So Mike's ignored him, and then all of a sudden he's he's caught him at the blue because he's in town, and then he's also banged him. So I play Mike. Like, so there's a lot going on. So you've you've ignored him, you've you're not creeped out by his letters, none of this, and then you get him to come to see you doing your shoot, and then also take advantage of him. There's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

He's on the phone, it's a lot, he's on the phone to his wife.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Oh, hi honey, yeah, fine, yeah. Oh, great, yeah, doing good, great photo shoot. It's just what it is odd, and also, how is he not arrested? So he's vulnerable, he's committing crime after crime.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

Yeah, what the heck?

SPEAKER_00 37:57

And all you all you get is oh, there he is again. There's no place ever.

SPEAKER_03 38:01

He's literally going through, breaking through shops and windows and everything.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

And all you get is him sitting down with his what what is she? Support worker.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Oh, you okay?

SPEAKER_03 38:12

I'm assuming it's a probation officer, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

You're okay. How are you feeling? Yeah, you know, not too bad. Yeah, I'm not sure about the bodybuilding stuff anymore. Yeah, I might just stop doing it. No, no. Why you're not in prison? What's going on? You need to be in prison.

SPEAKER_03 38:31

Yeah, it is, it is quite odd because you've got that scene then where he's in the coffee shop as well, going nuts. Surely that's like two bloody offences, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Yes, several. Several offences. Lots of offences, yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:44

And like his DNA was all over that shop because he was bleeding everywhere. Did he crash a car as well?

SPEAKER_00 38:49

He did, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:52

What is going on?

SPEAKER_00 38:53

Didn't get the surgery. What was it? Liver? Was it liver?

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Yeah, he had cysts on his liver, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

And he wouldn't he because of the scar. But yeah, he's able to go with scars all over his arm from smashing up a shop.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Yes. Strange. Okay, right, let's just rattle through a shame. Good feel. It's it is it is just this episode so long.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

Do you the scene where he's he's better so obviously the people the shop that he vandalised or whatever the word is, they show up to his garden the day of his show, his big show that he's been training for, and they beat the crap out of him. That is quite uh powerful. Is that the word? It's not powerful, but it's quite a good scene where he gets up on the stage, he's literally dripping with blood, his blood is everywhere, and he is really pushing through, and then he just collapses on stage.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

The YouTube video, him making those YouTube videos in his garage. Oh I'm hoping he did a bit of editing on those. Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

No, because it was like three hours and 28 minutes, one of them, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 39:54

Was it?

SPEAKER_03 39:54

Yeah, do you it showed a timer under YouTube?

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Oh, it was like three hours and something. So he posted that unedited. Wow. Yeah, wow way. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And then he had to sit there and read all the comments. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:07

It's like who is this guy?

SPEAKER_00 40:09

I'm sure there were some comments just saying, mate, you need help. Just get some help.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

Is it yeah? God love him. God love him.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

Quite the performance. Quite the performance, but yeah, the film got buried because unfortunately, Jonathan, he's uh he's not a good bloke. In real life, he's not a good bloke.

SPEAKER_03 40:25

And so there is assault allegations, wasn't there?

SPEAKER_00 40:27

Yes, M and U. This is MNU, so we won't get into those.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

So Disney removed a film.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 40:32

And then because yeah, they just remembered.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

I'm sure Michael Hearns very cross. Because this is a big film for Mike.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

Well, is that?

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Well, he's an actor, he's been in films, but quite low budget, straight to DVD type films.

SPEAKER_03 40:45

It was filmed in 24 days, Ben.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 40:48

Yep. Okay. That's quite impressive, isn't it? But then, as you said, physique is not long term, so they probably had to do it in 24 days.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Yes. Yes, potentially.

Final Reflections And Sign‑Off

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Yeah. But yeah, very good. It's a good film. It's a shame that it didn't get the recognition probably that it deserved. But then it is quite a bleak film. Because I'm when I'm talking about it, I'm I'm more so fascinated about the extreme, the level that people have to go to to enjoy not enjoy the sport, to do the sport, because I never knew how extreme it actually was. It's probably ignorance, I don't know. Just didn't think unless you've unless you've prepped for exactly, but I never knew how much it was until I probably s seen this film and started talking to you about it. Or started doing these parts. I never knew how much it was. Like I didn't know what peak week was or any of that. And it just shows how much it is it it is an obsession. It has to be an obsession.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Yes, it does, yes.

SPEAKER_03 41:49

It it just has to be. And it it's very interesting. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

It's not just bodybuilding, it's across the board, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 41:56

But then the film does do it justice because it shows that, it shows the obsession, it shows what you have to do, and it shows the isolation, it shows all of that, but it is quite bleak. But because it has to be. To a degree, I suppose, yeah. He couldn't be out parodying, could he? And having a social life, and this film wouldn't have the same impact.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

No. The dates, what about the dates?

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Oh dates, wow, wait, cringe wordy cringe wordy.

SPEAKER_00 42:25

Even before he starts doing his order, it's like, really?

SPEAKER_03 42:28

He doesn't ask her one question.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

She's there.

SPEAKER_03 42:31

She's well she got out of it fairly lively, fair play to her.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

But even before the order, she was still like, yeah, you know, this guy's Well, she reached out to him.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:42

He she said no first and then she must have felt bad, but she reached out to him, didn't she?

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:47

And rang him.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Well he's vulnerable, isn't he? He's vulnerable, so he ordered a lot of food. It's a bit strange because I I get that he's putting the calories in, but I don't know. This is dinner, so it's not dinner, but maybe he's just recently trained. Maybe this is just based on his routine. Because it's almost like, well, do you need to eat that much in one go? Would you not be spreading this out a bit more? Would you not have had a lot of your calories already so you could probably eat a little less? And then maybe post-dinner just have some more food.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Where's the money coming from as well?

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Well, that's what I was worried about, because he's working in a shop as a food packer, isn't he?

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Anyway, right, anyway. We need to unfortunately for you, it's one of those. We need to get on with the day. I need to get back to this.

SPEAKER_03 43:32

Maybe he was doing backlauding then. At the dinner scene.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Yes, there you go. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Very good. But a lot of food, yeah. And then and then he yeah, and then he binges.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

So a lot of food before the binge. So he's ordered all that food, just as part of his his normal meals.

SPEAKER_03 43:52

So do I think seven out of ten is a fair? I don't know, I think it could be more.

SPEAKER_00 43:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 43:59

I think it should be more.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

The performance is unbelievable from Jonathan.

SPEAKER_03 44:02

Yeah, I think it should be more.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

I'm sure, under different circumstances, that's being talked about as an Oscar contender.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

Bloody nomadics.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Taxi driver, Joker, the wrestler. Just some films where it takes inspiration. Taxi driver, Joker, the wrestler.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

Oh right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Similarities with the with the character, Alone Ranger, dysfunctional, mental health problems. All those films are better overall, but similar themes.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

You're said here you couldn't decide when to end the film, yes.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

It just went on and on and on.

SPEAKER_03 44:43

Yeah, it did it did go on.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

Two hours.

SPEAKER_03 44:45

Yeah. Obliakness.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:49

It's kind of one of those films where you have to, afterwards, you have to actually sit and digest it.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

Yes, I know. It's like this episode, Fiona. This is this is two hours. This is going on and on and on.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

Let's go. Thank you for listening goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 45:00

It's a shame, Fiona. It's a shame. As I always say, I've got to edit this. I've got to get back to the revision. I've got to read. I've got there's so much stuff I've got to do. But the point is it doesn't have to all be put into this episode. 30, 40. Well, you've talked stuff out of it, can't we? Uh-huh. We've got 30 or 40 years left of this, Fiona. It's fine.

unknown 45:17

No.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

We've just got to get through this period and we can just do more of these.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

Does that mean we're going to be together forever?

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Oh. Oh. Yeah, well, this, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Oh, grish. Can't wait for the next 40 years.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Jim, a good place to heal.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

But used as a crutch.

SPEAKER_00 45:32

Yeah. The scene with the the was it the girl? The coke. Don't drink that, this will make you fat. So it's all part of it again in his mind.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

No one will like you if you're fat.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Yes. Will I have more friends if I'm not fat? If I'm a bodybuilder, if I've got muscle, if I'm famous. It's all part of the same theme, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 45:50

He needs. I don't know what he needs. But anyhow, yes. Good film. Very good film, actually.

SPEAKER_00 45:57

Characters have moments to be happy but blow it. Yes, okay. That's why I mentioned taxi driver, Joker, The Wrestler.

SPEAKER_03 46:05

No one's happy in this film.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

No, but there is times, like even when he goes when he goes on the date.

SPEAKER_03 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

That could have gone better. A lot better. But it's obsession. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 46:15

Because all he wants to talk about was what he was doing.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Because he had nothing else going on. Yes, adds to the bleakness, doesn't it? Yeah. There are times where where the the characters in these films have got an option to go a different path.

unknown 46:27

But no.

SPEAKER_00 46:28

And they uh they blow it. Yes. Their obsession becomes too much. Okay, there we go. Lots more to say, lots more, but as we said, 40, 40 years, 40 more years of this. Okay, MNU. MNU. Pushball health.

SPEAKER_03 46:46

Pushing your health in the pulse of life.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

That was a lot. A lot of content.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

That was a lot. Very interesting though.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Yeah, anything else? Final thoughts for you now.

SPEAKER_03 46:55

I have nothing else to say. I really need to go to the toilet and my gremlins are at me.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Okay. There we go. 2026.

SPEAKER_03 47:03

See you on stage. What's that? Is that the flex thing?

SPEAKER_00 47:07

Yeah, go on. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 47:08

Yeah, I don't know. How do I hold a fork?

SPEAKER_00 47:10

We need some work.

SPEAKER_03 47:11

Yes, coach, baby.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

We need to do some work.

SPEAKER_03 47:14

Do you know a coach? An evidence-based coach. That's what I want.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:21

Go study and then you'll be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

I won't be if I keep doing this episode because I'll fail. Okay, goodbye. Okay, cheers. Cheers.