Nobody Cares As Much As You Think They Do

Part Two: Cognitive Biases & The Truman Show

Why do you think everyone's watching you at the gym when they're really not? 

Why can't you quit that six-week transformation program even though it never sticks? 

Why does thinking about going to the gym exhaust you more than actually going? And why won't your brain let go of unfinished tasks?

Ben and Fiona break down the Spotlight Effect, Sunk Cost Fallacy, Cognitive Avoidance, and the Zeigarnik Effect–the mental shortcuts that keep you stuck. 

The Truman Show (1998) ties it all together: how do we accept manufactured realities without questioning them? 

Why do loops need to close? 

And would you walk away from a comfortable lie?

Topics covered: Cognitive biases, psychology, fitness mindset, The Truman Show, gym anxiety, self-improvement, mental shortcuts, the Zeigarnik Effect, sunk cost fallacy, spotlight effect

With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully "Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life."

Expect Foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life's daily rot. 

This weekly audio & video expansion on the world-famous 'The Daily (ish) Rot' email and video ramblings also includes: 

Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet Advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes (short and to the point)
Narcissistic wisdom. 

WHO THE FU*K ARE WE?

Howdy,

I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach (not a life coach) who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude towards exercise and nutrition! 

Empowering You to give the middle finger to your yo-yo diet and half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days! 

Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits? 

Only to start the same rotten cycle again?

YOUR COMPLIMENTARY 30 DAY DIET KICK-UP-THE-ARSER 

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Transcript

Ben 0:00

Okay, right. Here we go. Clap. One, two, three. Uh how we looking. Great, Ben. How are we looking?

Fiona 0:14

Fantastic. Lights, camera, action.

Ben 0:16

Yeah, are we in the centre?

Fiona 0:18

We're in the centre.

Ben 0:20

Brilliant.

Fiona 0:21

Excellent.

Ben 0:22

That's great.

Fiona 0:22

Teamwork, Ben.

Ben 0:23

Had a breakthrough, didn't we? Before we recorded?

Fiona 0:24

You had a breakthrough. Holy hell, this is just Ben got a new mic stand and it's not going very well.

Ben 0:30

It's not. It's not. It's not. Just better to hold it.

Fiona 0:33

Yes.

Ben 0:34

This makes absolutely no difference. Nope. This microphone. Please, someone reach out. This is meant to be a robust microphone stand for this sure SM7B. Very heavy. No, just keeps falling down. Just keeps falling down.

Fiona 0:52

Yep.

Ben 0:52

Just can't figure it out.

Fiona 0:54

And it's caused a lot of stress.

Ben 0:55

We've had a breakthrough, though, haven't we? We've had a breakthrough.

Fiona 0:58

Ben's had a breakthrough.

Ben 0:59

We've had a breakthrough. I'm the star of the show. So I need maximum energy. I need to be performing. I need to be at my best to coax out some interesting conversation.

Fiona 1:14

Yes.

Ben 1:15

I don't, I don't it's worth commenting on this, though. I just I just don't understand this.

Fiona 1:23

What's this? Because you've jumped from one thing to another.

Ben 1:25

This this setup.

Fiona 1:26

This setup, okay.

Ben 1:27

Yes. It's all LinkedIn. It's all LinkedIn. How do you get the best from Ben? Ben from Pushable Health. Pushable Health is Ben.

Fiona 1:36

Feed 'em.

Ben 1:37

It's Ben.

Fiona 1:37

Yes.

Ben 1:38

I'm Ben. And this is Pushable Health.

Fiona 1:40

Yes.

Ben 1:41

And pushable health is Ben.

Fiona 1:44

Okay. We've a startup.

Ben 1:45

But this, this people, podcasts. I appreciate that sitting on a sofa is meant to be relaxing. Well, I'm not very relaxed. I'm actually quite uncomfortable.

Fiona 1:57

Neither am I. I'm not sure.

Ben 1:58

Yeah, I'm reasonably uncomfortable. No, it's no, it's not about the stress, it's just about being comfortable. So just be super relaxed on the sofa and then it will just flow.

Fiona 2:08

Not when you've got a microphone in your bloody face.

Ben 2:11

Yeah, but the point is. The point is that this isn't very comfortable. Forget about if we're stressed or the light or the camera. Just just this. I I'm just really uncomfortable.

Fiona 2:21

Because you can't move, because you've got a monstrosity in your face.

Ben 2:23

Right, but so I'm not getting it then. So people, you don't you don't watch them, but other other people who host shows, they sit on sofas or or chairs. Like this.

Fiona 2:33

But maybe they're not uncomfortable, but they just don't voice it. Or maybe they're not comfortable and they just don't voice it.

Ben 2:37

Well it's a bit strange, isn't it? Well you may as well just sit at a table then. We've done that before. We've just sat at a table and it was like, well this is yes, but it was right. Up straight, here we go. Microphone was there. What's the difference?

Fiona 2:49

I don't know.

Ben 2:50

I wasn't doing this. I wasn't turning to the side, having a conversation, isn't comfortable, is it?

Fiona 2:59

Well why didn't you start sitting there then then? Over there.

Ben 3:03

No, it's better. It is better because well not that. We're gonna we're the green screen. Green screen's coming in the new year. It's gonna be so good. So funny. Oh, how we'll laugh.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

It's not gonna be funny.

Ben 3:14

This is better. This looks better, I think, but it's uncomfortable. Even then, even there, you were over there. So I was still I was still doing that. You can't relate though, can you?

Fiona 3:31

I can't relate to the case.

Ben 3:32

A standard podcast with two people or a a couple.

Fiona 3:36

I can envision it that way. They sit like this.

Ben 3:38

I'm sure they've got a nicer sofa because they've got more money. We're getting there. We're getting there.

Fiona 3:43

Just need a bigger one.

Ben 3:44

They've got a bigger sofa. They've got all this is set up for them, hopefully.

Fiona 3:49

Doubtful. I just start to get stressed about setting up. However, and they're not perfectionists.

Ben 3:54

But they are still doing this. And my neck, my neck hurts.

Fiona 3:58

That's what a conversation is. And this is Ben. You maintain eye contact.

Ben 4:02

So when you meet your friend or you have a conversation, is this the normal.

Fiona 4:05

Well, I'm not looking at them. Oh, well, how are you today? Or maybe it is then.

Ben 4:08

I just I just don't like talking to people. I don't know.

Fiona 4:12

That's an art that's an autistic trait, Ben, when you don't maintain eye contact or don't want to.

Ben 4:16

I don't think you can say that, Fiona.

Fiona 4:18

Yeah, but you No, no, sorry.

Ben 4:19

Where where have where have you jumped? You've jumped from I don't I can't make eye contact with people. What?

Fiona 4:24

That's what I felt like you were just saying.

Ben 4:26

No, it's not that. I'd rather you just be there. Well, I I I feel so much better.

Fiona 4:33

I feel like hi. I'm more than happy doing this.

Ben 4:38

I mean it's just this. So when people meet friends and they sit and they they have a coffee, take the microphone away.

Fiona 4:46

It depends on how the sheets are placed.

Ben 4:48

So is this position the norm for a lot of people? So forget this.

Fiona 4:52

Yeah, I'm sure it is, Ben.

unknown 4:54

Okay.

Fiona 4:55

Why are we rambling about this?

Ben 4:56

So I'm it I just find it interesting. And I'm sure one person out there will go, Yeah. Yeah, I'm not I'm not very comfortable actually when I say it like this. Or I also do a podcast. And yeah, it's really uncomfortable.

Fiona 5:09

Yes, but it's because you've got all the equipment as well. Like I would in an ideal world, I'd be sitting with my legs crossed or my legs over you, and I'd be a lot more comfortable. But I can't because I've got a laptop, I've got a hold of this monstrosity, I've got these monstrosities in my ear.

Ben 5:23

So so take all this away, and your friend was just sat right here. Would you you'd be sitting like this, wouldn't you?

Fiona 5:28

No, I wouldn't. I'd have my legs upon the sofa.

Ben 5:29

No, just a friend. A friend.

Fiona 5:31

Yes, I'd have my legs upon the sofa. I'd have my legs curled up underneath me and I'd be angling my body towards them.

Ben 5:35

Oh, right, okay. Well that that all sounds quite uncomfortable.

Fiona 5:37

No.

Ben 5:38

It's not.

Fiona 5:39

It's not.

Ben 5:40

Okay. So just to confirm, people sit like this at an angle when they're just shooting the poop with their friends.

Fiona 5:47

Yes.

Ben 5:48

Yeah?

Fiona 5:48

Yes.

Ben 5:50

Okay.

Fiona 5:51

Right.

Ben 5:51

So I just need to just get on for then.

Fiona 5:52

Yeah, get on with.

Ben 5:54

Okay. That was just a a ramble then.

Fiona 5:56

Yes.

Ben 5:57

I think I make a point though. I just I'm just this is just uncomfortable. And the you want to be comfortable.

Fiona 6:04

Yes. So in a comfortable.

Ben 6:06

In a podcast setting, sitting on the sofa, being almost relaxed, is meant to then, I don't know, what coax the best from you.

Fiona 6:13

But I don't think you will ever be relaxed doing a podcast, will you? Because of the lights, camera, and the action.

Ben 6:18

That's what we were talking about off off mic low. We've we've moved on. We have to move on. Before I went into that rant about seating positions and where to angle your body, it's about me. The show's about me. So I have to, I have to accept in the new year, however the camera is placed, however bright the lights are.

Fiona 6:38

They're very bright.

Ben 6:39

You are the grip. You are in charge of this. I don't think you're very good at your job. But that's fine. That's fine. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because the point is I need to be good at my job.

Fiona 6:49

Yes, Ben.

Ben 6:50

And the only way for me to be good at my job is to be able to come down, sit, like this. This is uncomfortable, but never mind. And just have my notes if I need them and just go. And just not stress about all this.

Fiona 7:04

Yeah.

Ben 7:05

There's something there, isn't there? You could say that's what people need to do, don't they? They need to find a place in life. Where they just sit and they can be themselves.

Fiona 7:16

Oh, you are yourself. You are yourself.

Ben 7:19

But I'm hampered. I'm hampered with all this. So I'm putting my trust into you, Fiona.

Fiona 7:24

I wouldn't.

Ben 7:25

Because people aren't watching this, and people won't watch this in the future. They won't watch it for the lights. Or the quality of the camera. Or if it's slightly off-centred. They won't care.

Fiona 7:35

No.

Ben 7:35

They're here for me.

Fiona 7:36

But I don't care about that. They're here for me. But you do.

Ben 7:38

So the point is we could be in a wardrobe in the dark. But if I'm on form, people are tuning in.

Fiona 7:49

Right. Okay, so that was eight minutes.

Ben 7:53

It's difficult though, because people are doing the big productions, Fiona. They've got the lights, they've got the nice camera. Yes. So you think, well, you need to do a bit of that. It's naive for me not to at least try and make an effort. Do you not think?

Fiona 8:08

I think you're making it.

Ben 8:09

Do you not think it would be a little bit naive if we just sat in the dark? And I was like, well, their watch. I'm great.

Fiona 8:15

Well it takes away all the stress and these rambling conversations, wouldn't it?

Ben 8:19

I don't think that's rambling for you, and I think that's interesting. Okay. I think that's interesting.

Fiona 8:22

Well, we have different interests.

Ben 8:23

They can't see me, but their watch. Because I'm good.

Fiona 8:28

Yeah.

Ben 8:28

I'm funny.

Fiona 8:29

Yeah.

Ben 8:30

I'm relatable.

Fiona 8:32

He's a twat.

Ben 8:35

I'm really uncomfortable. It's a shame. It's a real shame.

Fiona 8:41

So what do we get out of that nine minutes of Ben's rant? Ben is uncomfortable, everybody.

Ben 8:47

Maybe talk into the mic. Okay, this is part two.

Fiona 8:51

Part two of what, Ben? Who are you and what do you do?

Ben 8:54

I'm hoping we we got a we got something from that. Are you opening monologue?

Fiona 8:59

Are you Ben from Push Pull Health?

Ben 9:01

I am the Ben, yes. The Ben.

Fiona 9:03

Are you pushing your health from the pools of life? Or are you trying to push me?

Ben 9:06

Yes, yeah. The intro intro will be there. Yeah. We'll get the intro, so we don't have to do the find a form of exercising stomach and a diet extinctive longer than 10 minutes. There he goes. It's in the intro. People know that.

Fiona 9:18

So what's this but what's this?

Ben 9:20

Part two of cognitive biases. Common fallacies that us humans go through.

Fiona 9:29

I don't like those words, that common fallacy. You bring it up a lot. I was fascinated by it at the beginning. But now you talk about it all the time and it's no longer.

Ben 9:37

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry about that.

Fiona 9:41

Right, but we're we're we're sorry that I'm boring you. You're not boring me, Darren. I just want to say I do like your jumper.

Ben 9:49

This is part two.

Fiona 9:50

Happy Christmas.

Ben 9:52

This is part two.

Fiona 9:53

This is part two.

Ben 9:54

We're gonna get to something called the zygarnik effect.

Fiona 9:57

I didn't see that.

Ben 9:58

And that's just perfectly summarizes this. We really should have just made this one episode.

Fiona 10:05

Yes.

Ben 10:06

Yeah, because it's part two has been a long time coming.

Fiona 10:08

It has, it has. So where are we going from, darling?

Ben 10:11

I haven't edited part one, so I'm not too sure. I'm pretty sure we were talking about envy and people with envy in their eyes or something.

Fiona 10:18

Yes, we were.

Ben 10:19

So maybe. Based on that, because part one was so long ago, I think we can.

Fiona 10:24

Shall we rehash what cognitive bias is just to reframe?

Ben 10:28

That's right, we didn't we didn't mention it in the first one. It was uh yeah, an error.

Fiona 10:33

But now we're going to do that in this one, so proceed.

Ben 10:37

I'm after you.

Fiona 10:44

But you're the star of the show, Ben.

Ben 10:47

Exactly. So I need my I need my energy. We've moved on though, because the previous episode it was just me sitting here for just hours, just listening to you just really struggle through the through this text. If you can read the I'm reading, I'm talking about it. And then we will get into it. Yeah, we'll get into it.

Fiona 11:05

So cognitive bias is a systematic error in the way we think. Instead of seeing reality as it actually is, the brain takes shortcuts.

Ben 11:17

Not quite sure what I said now.

Fiona 11:19

The brain takes shortcuts and builds a subjective reality that feels true even when it isn't. These mental shortcuts help us make quick decisions. I've got the tickles.

Ben 11:30

I don't This is a shame, Fiona, because this is the intro. And as you pointed out, my opening monologue was a little bit rambly.

Fiona 11:39

So you need to really get your head in the game.

Ben 11:44

Because people need to watch this. Oh, you give me the You expect families to sit round.

Fiona 11:49

All I'm thinking about is these headphones are so uncomfortable.

Ben 11:53

Maybe get maybe get these. Okay, you've got a pair in there, but you refuse to wear them.

Fiona 11:58

Okay, anyhow. You refuse to wear them. What is cognitive bias? A cognitive bias is a systematic error in the way we think. Instead of seeing reality as it actually is, the brain takes shortcuts and it builds a subjective reality that feels true, even when it isn't. These mental shortcuts help us make quick decisions, but they also cause distorted perceptions, inaccurate judgments, illogical interpretations.

Ben 12:25

Interpretations?

Fiona 12:26

Interpretations and outright irrational behaviour.

Ben 12:30

Okay.

Fiona 12:34

Your headphones at you too.

Ben 12:37

Okay. Yeah. So what I think that could have gone smoother, though delivery, but so what is Let's get on with it, yeah. Let's move on.

Fiona 12:45

So lame it, lay it lay it to me. What is covered? Lay it to you. Yeah. Lay it to you, girl. Layman's it. Layman's it.

Ben 12:53

No, sorry, but this is part two. We've we've moved on, haven't we? We we're now gonna get to a D I thought you said we didn't cover it in the first one. Not the definition. There was no definition, which is disappointing.

Fiona 13:04

But we talked lots of part.

Ben 13:04

Because we started banging on about cognitive biases.

Fiona 13:07

Yes.

Ben 13:07

And there was no definition.

Fiona 13:08

Well that's poor.

Ben 13:09

We just got straight into it. Which I think's fine. But have a have a definition, yeah.

Fiona 13:14

Yes, Ben. I agree. The spotlight effect. What's a spotlight effect, Ben?

Ben 13:20

Okay, you've started, so you may as well finish.

Fiona 13:22

Oh, okay. I thought it wasn't me reading.

Ben 13:23

Just a little bit, it's just a little bit these days. Right. Just a little bit. Just a quick summary.

Fiona 13:28

We dramatically overestimate how much people notice and think about us. Everyone is in their own head. So you think everybody's watching you, but nobody is. I have a big thing about going to the gym that people are judging me or watching me. No, no one cares. I'm not watching anyone when I'm in the gym.

Ben 13:48

All I can see is this eyelash. Wow. Yes, I agree. That's all I can say. That's all I can say. Yeah, I agree, Fiona. I agree. Let's get come on. Let's get back. Soldier on. You're a professional. You're a professional.

Fiona 14:15

I ain't.

Ben 14:17

Okay. In the gym, yes.

Fiona 14:19

Yes.

Ben 14:19

So I believe we touched upon this maybe. Not not this exactly, but the the envy. And if people are in a position to start making snigh comments or just being unpleasant.

Fiona 14:34

What about people going to the gym and starting to work out journey losing weight? Because that's what we spoke about last year.

Ben 14:38

Well just in general, just people just being just make if people are to make shy comments, and this is the season. Tis the season to make snigh comments, isn't it?

Fiona 14:45

Right, yeah.

Ben 14:46

Family, friends, we all get together. Oh, how's it going?

Fiona 14:48

Well you've you've gained a couple of pounds.

Ben 14:50

Oh.

Fiona 14:50

Oh yeah, my my granny uses it.

Ben 14:52

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. So yeah, the granny and and the mum, maybe. Yeah.

Fiona 14:55

Oh you you've got a you've got a very round face.

Ben 14:58

Yes, yes. Which is fine when you're six, but when you're 26, it starts to become a problem, doesn't it? Oh, they all have to cheese field. You can sort of laugh that off. I'm sure some people can't, but that's it it's more the friends. It's more the it's more that certain family members like a sibling or I don't know.

Fiona 15:18

Well, I was called fat arse. Right. I still am.

Ben 15:21

Right.

Fiona 15:21

Called fat arse in my family, so yeah.

Ben 15:26

Okay. Well, how's that make you feel?

Fiona 15:28

I'm just so used to it now, I don't really care.

unknown 15:31

Yeah.

Fiona 15:32

Suppose when I did get the nickname, I did have a little bit of extra weight to myself.

Ben 15:36

Oh yeah. Oh. Sure there's something to be said there, but not for me. Not from my mouth, there isn't.

Fiona 15:44

Well, I'm used to it then.

Ben 15:46

Yeah.

Fiona 15:46

So it's just one of those things.

Ben 15:47

No, no, oh no, no, not about yourself. No. There's some irony, isn't there? There's some irony.

Fiona 15:52

Right.

Ben 15:53

Which is maybe maybe the point. Which is maybe the point. Yeah, isn't there? If someone's saying that, if someone's making that that statement, they themselves might be overweight.

Fiona 16:03

Maybe.

Ben 16:04

They might be unhappy.

Fiona 16:05

Maybe. I don't know.

Ben 16:09

And I'm sure a lot of people will experience that.

Fiona 16:12

Yeah.

Ben 16:13

Not just over Christmas, but in general, from friends. Oh, I know they do, because I talk to clients.

Fiona 16:19

I know they do.

Ben 16:20

We talked about this last time, so we won't talk about it too much. I believe you haven't edited it. I believe we talked about this last time. Just about people making snipe remarks. Oh, you go to a personal trainer, do you? Oh, you join that push for health. Oh, that guy, I see his videos. He's a bit he's a bit much. Oh, yeah, not for me. No. No, what is for you? What are you doing? What are you doing for your health? What are you up to? Oh well. God, have you not failed a few times before, Low? Like you you joined Slimming World and you did this and did that, but if it's working for you, give it a go. Oh, you start in there. Oh. Oh yeah. I just like my life too much. Yeah.

Fiona 16:58

I just like my weekends.

Ben 17:00

Yeah. Life's short, eh? Yeah. God, just just eat the cake.

Fiona 17:06

Eat the cheese.

Ben 17:08

Just do this, of course. Of course.

Fiona 17:09

In moderation.

Ben 17:11

How you how are you feeling? How are you feeling? Had the knees?

Fiona 17:15

The hips.

Ben 17:16

Yeah. How are you feeling? Getting older now. Yeah.

Fiona 17:20

So you were you were crapping on about tripods everywhere. I wasn't really sure. I'm sure there's a scenario in your head that you want to talk about here. I didn't know what you meant about it. Oh no, yeah. Me pushing over all ladies, huh? That's all that was.

Ben 17:33

Oh, that's right. Okay. What's all this about? No, the tripods but in public gyms, if public gyms weren't unbearable enough, there's now people with with tripods everywhere filming themselves. What I find fascinating with it is that these people, same people, which is really upsetting, is that they will then just walk into a gym or tripod. I I've only recently rejoined a public gym after quite a few years away. But again, talking to clients and just seeing stuff online, tripods in gyms is now a thing. Most gyms, there'll be someone with a tripod filming themselves doing their workout.

Fiona 18:03

But to bring the tripods with them to the gym and set it up.

Ben 18:07

Yes. I'm sure some gyms might provide tripods, maybe.

Fiona 18:11

Jesus.

Ben 18:12

Yes.

Fiona 18:12

But what if everyone's doing that and it's really busy?

Ben 18:15

I I think they do. Yes.

Fiona 18:16

I think that's really a safety hazard because people might trip over them with the wires and stuff.

Ben 18:20

And these same people will then get arsy when people walk in shot.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Jesus.

Ben 18:28

You need to get clued up here. You need to get online. It's a great place. And there's there's people, there's videos that I've seen of people filming other people in gyms. People that might be overweight. Or people that are struggling with lifting a weight or their form isn't very good. And they're like, look at this person. That's that's the scary part because these videos, this person is is watching back this video and going, ha ha, yeah, I'll post that.

unknown 18:55

Yeah.

Fiona 18:56

But surely that's illegal. Surely you have to have consent.

Ben 19:00

There's lots wrong with it, yeah. Lots of issues. But people are filming other people in gyms going, uh yeah, you need to go somewhere else.

Fiona 19:07

Surely to go gyms would would would stop that then.

Ben 19:10

Yeah, I I think mercifully a lot of people get called out and they get banned from gyms and there there is repercussions.

Fiona 19:17

Oh, okay.

Ben 19:18

But it's the point they're still doing it.

Fiona 19:19

Well, it should be banned for games.

Ben 19:21

It's still happening. There was a video recently I saw of a personal trainer.

Fiona 19:24

But that wouldn't be that wouldn't be nice. Sorry. That wouldn't be nice if like someone going in who hasn't been to a gym in years, going in and everybody's recording. I just I just want to leave. Yes. Because you you will be in the back of that video somewhere. And if you're self-conscious as it is, that's gonna make you even more self-conscious. I'm getting myself down to push into that private studio.

Ben 19:42

This isn't helping, is it? Because we're talking about how people aren't paying attention to you.

Fiona 19:47

Yeah, but I'm what I'm saying is what I'm saying is if you're already self-conscious.

Ben 19:51

Oh, what you're saying, okay.

Fiona 19:52

What I'm saying is what if people are already self-conscious going to a gym, that's going to cause that person to be even more self-conscious because there's cameras in the background, and they'll they'll be probably thinking, I'm going to be in that video, and the likelihood is they will be in that video. So that makes it even more difficult for people to get into the gym. So it's another barrier for people.

Ben 20:11

Sorry, I had to just lift my foot there, how ridiculous. Just to see if it was recorded. It is recorded. Okay. Hello. Wow. Sorry about that. Yes, yes. But for the most part, people aren't because people only care about themselves. The spotlight effect is is a thing where most people don't give a poop about what you're doing. And in the gym, they don't either. The whole tripod thing and people filming themselves, it's just about themselves. You have to be you have to be something else entirely to start filming people or start making comments on what other people are doing. And that's because of your own insecurities, isn't it? Realistically. You got you got the you got the odd few, the anomalies, who are just pretty disgusting people. They exist, don't they? So that was my point, I think, when it comes to the pushing old ladies over.

Fiona 21:04

Right.

Ben 21:05

It's it's a little bit of a mess, this one, Fiona. There's their rambles in yes.

Fiona 21:09

I gathered from it's fine.

Ben 21:10

It's look, we're just getting it done.

unknown 21:12

Yes.

Ben 21:12

We'll get to the zygonic effect in a minute, and that will make more sense about this episode in general. Just trying to tick, just trying to close the loop. So I think what I was my ramblings were with the old lady thing is that there are certain people that are just that are just monsters that just aren't very nice people. Forget about if they're struggling with certain things or they're projecting their own insecurities onto others by making sny comments and filming them in the gym going, look at that fatty. This is what's happening. If you sat them down, are you alright? No, I'm not actually.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Well, obviously.

Ben 21:46

I'm really struggling, actually. Okay, fine. But there are certain people that are just not very nice. So I think my my ramblings that I have added to this bias, which doesn't quite make sense, was if I was just a a mean A pretty unsavoury person, I could then just start going round Hern Bay in the local area, pushing over old ladies, filming it, and in my own head think, wow, this this could be good actually. Because what I'll do is I'll push them over and then go, Wuff. If you were in the private Push My Health Studio, you could stop yourself falling. Because you'd have the balance, the mobility, the strength, the coordination. So really, what are you doing? And then also on the floor with their broken hip, I'll throw them my business card and go, right, I'll see you next week.

Fiona 22:36

Can I ask a quick question, though?

Ben 22:38

If I had that mindset, but you don't, because you are a nice person. It's it's a risk, isn't it? I think I think if I did that, that's a risk. Even I would appreciate that that could probably go wrong. People would go, mm-hmm.

Fiona 22:49

I think so, Ben. I think so.

Ben 22:51

Yeah, and but that's based on on me producing these wacky videos as well, these talking head videos.

Fiona 22:54

Anyways, can I ask a question? Because I'll lose it if I don't if I if I please, please do. So now that you're back in a public gym again, surely to God, if people are videoing and recording in these gyms, it's taking them longer to do sets, and it's taking them longer to do stuff. So surely they're holding up other people using the machinery as well.

Ben 23:14

I imagine so, yeah. That's always been a thing though, isn't it? People just on their phones watching clips of me on their phone going like, yeah, this guy, he gets it. The lighting's a bit off, but he gets it.

Fiona 23:25

Camera's a bit off.

Ben 23:26

The camera's just facing the wrong way, but other than that, it's it's pretty good.

Fiona 23:31

He is still the star of the show.

Ben 23:32

Yeah. It seems like he's moved on from that. This guy seems like he's moved on from that and he's thought, you know what? Conserve your energy for your voice, your opinion. All right.

Fiona 23:41

Don't worry about the camera. It didn't really answer my question.

Ben 23:43

It's upside down, the lights are wrong. Don't worry about it.

Fiona 23:45

It didn't really answer my question, though. So surely does a bit more of a backlog at the gyms if people are videoing themselves. Because if you're videoing yourself, are you really? I don't know. I just it's I just I don't get it.

Ben 23:57

It's not ideal, was it?

Fiona 23:58

I get it. Obviously I do because it's content, isn't it? It's it's people, you know, whatever, whatever they're doing. But I just don't get I wouldn't get it because I'd never do that.

Ben 24:08

I think yeah, so I think the point is we're trying to bring let's bring it back. Let's try and so I think the point is if that's that's an extreme. Like not everyone's doing that, most people aren't doing that, but that's an extreme you can only imagine you can only imagine what you're dealing with if someone is doing that very popular now and putting that online going like, look at this person, look how look how gross they are. They shouldn't be in this gym.

Fiona 24:26

But you do see it.

Ben 24:27

Why not that they I think that's exactly what they should be. You do see what they're trying to lose weight.

Fiona 24:30

When I'm looking at my cat videos, when I'm scrolling, lots of gym stuff comes up and it's like people doing stuff in the gym. And it's people taking a mick out of people.

Ben 24:40

Oh, right, yes.

Fiona 24:41

Not all the time, but do you know most people aren't, are they? So I think the overriding thing is not what's true and what's not, dear nowadays.

Ben 24:49

No, true. So the overriding thing is if you can take anything from this, nobody gives me a stuff. Is that most most people don't, do they? And if they do, if you can step away from what they're saying and how they're behaving, and how mean they might be being, and just go, God, this this person is probably in in a lot of pain. This person is is really struggling. I'm sure it's quite upsetting for people. I'm sure when they see their nan and then an's like, oh god.

Fiona 25:18

The interview.

Ben 25:18

Oh dear. I thought you go into a personal trainer. You're looking, is it?

Fiona 25:24

What was it? I was told before you're looking round around the edges.

Ben 25:27

Oh right. Who said that?

Fiona 25:29

Um my granny, dad's daddy's mouth. This is when I was like, what? Oh god, 12 maybe.

Ben 25:37

Right.

Fiona 25:38

Maybe. Or maybe younger.

Ben 25:40

So it's not ideal, then is it? It's not ideal. And if people are still getting that. I I imagine, no, this, yeah, this is a whole different topic, isn't it? But I imagine I imagine there's there's yeah, there's there's a whole thing where if if you got that when you were a child and then you have children, and then you you witness your your child being told by their nan, your mum, oh bloody hell. Oh dear, you know what you what you've been feeding her? Yeah. She's getting big.

Fiona 26:05

Oh god. No.

Ben 26:07

I imagine that's a whole different thing.

Fiona 26:08

Yes. So what we're trying to say is I'm gonna read this bit because I actually quite liked this.

Ben 26:13

Which bit? Which bit?

Fiona 26:14

David Foster.

Ben 26:15

Oh, yes.

Fiona 26:15

So the reality of what me and Ben are trying to say is nobody actually gives a shit. So you're gonna think everyone's gonna see me, everybody's going to judge me, everyone's gonna notice my wish. No. 95% and probably 98% of people will not give a shit.

Ben 26:28

And if they do, if they do, that that person, I know it might not help. I know it's easy for me to say, yeah, just don't worry about it. Just think about how much pain they're in. That's easy for me to say that, but they're just to the pits. Other than you've you've got the anomalies. You have the anomalies who who maybe just aren't. Maybe they're actually just sky high. Maybe they're doing great. And they're just evil, they're just moments.

Fiona 26:49

So we've got a nice little um quote from David Foster Wallace here. You'll stop worrying about what people think when you realise how seldom they do. Then Ben said, Except miserable people, they do care, but only to project their own insecurities. That flicker of envy people show you before congratulating you, and people will tear you down to soothe their own resentment.

Ben 27:13

Yes, and I'm pretty sure we touched upon that. Yes. We might just be rehashing ourselves. Maybe we've already talked about the spotlight effect.

Fiona 27:20

We haven't.

Ben 27:20

Okay. Anything else say on that, Fiona?

Fiona 27:24

No, I really liked that um definition there, or that quote, should I say.

Ben 27:27

David Foster Wallace, yeah. Yes. Yeah, it's pretty good.

Fiona 27:30

Good man.

Ben 27:31

There's a few variants of the same thing.

Fiona 27:33

Yes.

Ben 27:34

If I really cared about people's opinions, wouldn't be sitting here, would I, doing this?

Fiona 27:40

No.

Ben 27:41

Jeez Louise. Anything else to say about that, Fiona?

Fiona 27:45

No, Ben. I think we're ready to move on to the sunk cost fallacy and avoidance loops.

Ben 27:49

Yes.

Fiona 27:50

That was quite a mouthful.

Ben 27:51

Yeah. Oh yeah, we are.

Fiona 27:53

Right. So what is sunk cost fallacy? We've talked about this loads of time, haven't we? So it's continuing something because you've already invested the time, money, and effort into it. Time or money or effort, not all. So then we've got cognitive avoidance is spending more energy avoiding a task than doing it.

Ben 28:13

Yes, let's touch upon the fallacy, the sunk cost first.

Fiona 28:16

Yeah.

Ben 28:18

Oh yeah. Well, I'm there. I'm there. We've got some examples, haven't we? Of the sunk cost fallacy. Right, maybe maybe read those out. And then we can then put our own bid in.

Fiona 28:26

So continuing a miserable diet because you've already lost weight on it. Keeping a gym membership you never use because you've paid for the year. Sticking to a routine that clearly doesn't work because I've already started. Buying equipment, books, courses, and refusing to admit that they were a waste. Repeating old patterns because they're familiar, not helpful. So I think the one continuing a miserable diet because you've already lost weight on it, I think that's a good one. Because we'd always go we always go back to the keyboard.

Ben 28:56

Yes, fine. Okay.

Fiona 28:57

So like I always go on about the keisha diet, I lost weight on the keisha diet, and I always want to try the keisha diet again. Yes. But did I enjoy being on the keisha diet? Well, I probably did, didn't I? That was a good diet.

Ben 29:08

It's knowing when to let go.

Fiona 29:11

Yes. And trying something else that might work better.

Ben 29:14

And because you've spent so much time and money and effort on stuff. And oh my god. It's all I do. Just so many things in my life.

Fiona 29:25

We would give some examples of the cognitive avoidance.

Ben 29:28

No, because we're talking about the sunk cost fallacy. Oh, yeah. So we'll move on to it. We'll move on to that fear.

Fiona 29:32

We're not happy about that.

Ben 29:33

Exactly. So we need to bring it back around. Okay.

Fiona 29:34

We need to fix it. Bring it away, then. Bring it away.

Ben 29:37

Are you so are you getting that then? Are you getting it? Yeah, I get it. The examples are kind of there.

Fiona 29:40

Yeah, I I get it. It's like not wanting to give up or not wanting to admit the fish.

Ben 29:45

So you can imagine with a lot of things that I'm currently doing and I've done previously. This. This podcast. This it's either finding a different way, approaching it with a different mindset, or just moving on.

Fiona 30:02

Yes.

Ben 30:03

And just accepting, you know what, maybe this just isn't for me. And that's okay. But no one talks about that either. You can give stuff up, but then how long does it take for you to get over that? Hence why people don't want to do it. Because if you if you throw something in the bin and go, do you know what? It doesn't matter how much money, time, effort I spent on this. I've just got to keep going because what happens then? Relationships. It's better, and I'm sure if if people weigh up like the the potential pain of giving something up like a relationship, like a marriage, compared to well, it's not all bad, some of it's okay, it's bearable at times. But what about the pain? How am I gonna feel if I give this up? If I go, do you know what? That's enough. Let's move on. You've got to deal with that as well, the aftermath of what comes next, when you've pulled the pin and gone, right, that's it. No more. So if I stop doing the podcast, then what? I've got to find something else. And that's also a different thing as well. It's it's oh okay, now I've got this big gap that I've uh that I now need to fill. Because I've stopped doing that, I think for the long term, hopefully that will be the right decision. But you know, what else can I do? I need to do something else now, I need to move on. I've been that off. Now what? Everything in life.

Fiona 31:31

Well, yes, it is.

Ben 31:33

My course, MNU recently, the website.

Fiona 31:38

Is the website done now? Kind of.

Ben 31:41

It's it's out there in the world.

Fiona 31:42

Okay.

Ben 31:43

But what would I have done if I'd have gone, do you know what I've had enough?

unknown 31:46

No.

Ben 31:47

But you can Again, we'll get to it in a minute. There's igarnic effect about closing loops. Yes. Closing loops. We get to that.

Fiona 31:54

Oh yeah. Oh, I'm looking at it.

Ben 31:56

So that's yes, that's bleeding in, isn't it? Like you said about the procrastination loop.

Fiona 31:59

Yes.

Ben 32:00

That's why they're that's why they're together. That makes sense actually now. I've I forgot why we had put them together.

Fiona 32:05

But why why we put them together?

Ben 32:07

It's just it's then it's the pain, isn't it? It's the pain of giving it up, accepting that you've spent all this money and time and effort on this thing. And and just not feeling miserable about just going, no, that's enough. Move on.

Fiona 32:20

It's it's like it's like you did you have membership one, it's like that you're admitting defeat or admitting failure. Oh, everyone said I wouldn't be able to do it and I haven't done it. So just like, no, I'm gonna continue paying for it, I'm gonna continue trying to go because that's not giving up, giving up. But it is, because you're not gonna go.

Ben 32:40

It's very easy, yeah. It's easy to pinpoint this and highlight this. Sun Cosphala is like, oh yeah, God, you're right. But it's the aftermath. It's all well and good saying that's enough. That's enough, move on. Okay, how am I gonna feel? I wasn't able to finish that.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Yes.

Ben 33:02

God, my life is just one big sunk cost fallacy. Holy moly. My problem is I'm just not giving up on any of it.

Fiona 33:10

No, you are not.

Ben 33:14

But it's big things, isn't it? It's big things in life. Yes, you can give up on on oh, I can't finish every book. It's small things. I've just got hundreds and hundreds of books. Even if I just spent all day, every day just reading, I just wouldn't have time. I'd have to give up on some books. So that's a win. I've got better at reading certain books and going, no. Or articles and going, no, it's just it's too much. No. Research papers, oh no. Sorry. Sorry, no, not interested enough. But that's small things.

Fiona 33:50

I can't remember the Z word you said.

Ben 33:52

Zygarnic.

Fiona 33:53

Zygarn.

Ben 33:54

But the big things, your health. Relationships. Name some stuff. Name some big stuff.

Fiona 34:02

Like what?

Ben 34:04

Life stuff.

Fiona 34:06

Buying a house. Buying a new car.

Ben 34:10

Yeah. Okay, so yeah, so you so buy on the car and it keeps breaking down and it yes, and you're like, you know, let's just keep fixing it. I'll just keep fixing it.

Fiona 34:17

Buying house and then realising you need to tie your bathroom.

Ben 34:19

Yeah. Yeah.

Fiona 34:22

Uh I don't know what else.

Ben 34:25

But there might be certain things in life that are reasonably small for people. If we're trying to give actionable advice, there might be certain things that you are doing in life that you can't quite let go of because you've just spent too much time and money and effort, resources on that thing. And if you made a list of your top 10 things, one to ten, number one, that's that's yeah, that's that's really hard to give up on. And then what's the aftermath compared to then number 10? Like how much energy would it how much energy am I going to waste thinking about giving up on it compared to how much more energy I'm going to waste continuing to do it? I don't know. Like a book, that that that type of thing. It's like quite quite a low barrier entry where it's, oh, do you know, maybe I could test the waters with trying to remove certain sunk cost fallacy things from my life.

Fiona 35:16

Yeah, but do people realise what sunk cost fallacies are? The only reason why I know about it is because of you told me about it. So do people realise these things that, oh, this is this is avoidance, this is this, this is that.

Ben 35:29

Well no, this is why you need to watch pushbull health.

Fiona 35:32

Yes, well, yeah, that's the thing. So it's very easy for us to sit here and talk about it, isn't it? Because we underst well, kind of understand it. Whereas Steve might not understand it.

Ben 35:46

Right. Okay, that actually links in with oh, where's that stuff? I do struggle to still remain in a position where I can relate to people. Because I'm quite far removed from really struggling with my diet. Really struggling to find a form of exercise I can stomach. You know, I found one. I have found a diet that I can stick to for longer than ten minutes. Oh dear, well, sorry, are you shaming me for enjoying my advent calendar? You need to be very, very careful.

Fiona 36:25

You were moaning about me from putting too many treaties in it.

Ben 36:28

Right.

Fiona 36:29

Were you enjoying them?

Ben 36:31

Yes. Good. I I don't feel compelled to eat the whole advent calendar.

unknown 36:34

Oh.

Ben 36:35

In one hit.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Oh no, it'd be too much chocolate for it.

Ben 36:37

Because I I am at a point where I'm conscious of all the things I shoved in my girl. I found a diet I can stick to for longer than ten minutes. Were you eating today? No. Peckish.

unknown 36:47

No.

Ben 36:49

Okay, can I continue?

Fiona 36:50

Yeah, sorry. Yeah, jeez. Sorry, because I'm not sure.

Ben 36:52

No, when I when I'm in a flow, eh?

Fiona 36:55

That's why you just started a shortcut. Keep it down over there. That's why you're just done.

Ben 36:58

Keep it down.

Fiona 36:58

Okay, by the way.

Ben 36:59

Button it.

Fiona 37:00

Proceed.

Ben 37:02

Okay, let me just get back on track.

Fiona 37:04

Where were we?

Ben 37:06

So your original point was people not quite understanding. Yes, and it's easy for us to for me to just go. So cost fallacy, zygonic effect. Come on, you're an idiot. You should know all this by now. It's very hard for me to continue every day to relate. I have to work hard because I'm I'm quite far removed from having the struggles of my clients a lot of the time. That's why people, when they seek advice from entrepreneurs, business owners, oh, how did you get to this? How'd you get to that? They they've forgotten. They're too far removed. Someone starting off year one, if they're in year 25, oh, so yeah, from year one to five, what do I need to do? Figure out. They might just being a bit douchey because they had to figure out by themselves. They had to put the work in. They didn't have someone to provide step-by-step advice on how to get from here to here. But I think a lot of people have just forgotten because they're so far away from that starting point. So they can't relate. I you know, I don't know. Figure out. So you need to find someone who who's just a year or two ahead of you. They might still be douchey, but they might still go, oh we just gotta figure it out. How do you find a diet you can stick to for longer than ten minutes? Figure out. You tell me. Oh do I become how do I become conscious of all the things I shove in my gob? You tell me. Figure out. Is that making sense, Fiona?

Fiona 38:47

Yes.

Ben 38:48

And that's my job. To relate to clients and to relate to their issues because I've found a way, for the most part, to have a hold on these things. I don't waste too much energy now struggling to consume food. I've fallen in love with boredom. I've talked about this before. I'm okay with the boredom. I can eat a lot of the same foods and be reasonably content.

Fiona 39:15

So this goes-yeah, you eat the same, you yeah, but you for breakfast and lunch, but for dinner you like a little bit of variety. Of course.

Ben 39:21

But so this this goes into my this links in before we move on, and this links into the pushbull health app. The brand spanking new thing that I always talk about. But it's it's oh, it's just getting a nice, a nice sexy upgrade. Fine, yeah, sexy.

Fiona 39:38

Who are you?

Ben 39:40

It's it's just it's getting it's just getting bigger and better in the new year. Okay, team rotter. Doesn't matter. Now, ideally, I should do like a Truman show thing and have this fake advertisement. So stop the show, or just whilst you're talking, I'm just doing this weird advertisement for the the Pushwell Health app. And you're like, What are you doing? Nothing.

unknown 40:00

Nothing.

Ben 40:00

I just hold this big banner up with pushwell health on. They're like, what are you doing? Nothing. I'm listening.

unknown 40:07

Yes.

Fiona 40:07

You know the Truman show, which we get to. Yes, yes, yes.

Ben 40:10

We may we may get to.

Fiona 40:12

The coffee. Cocoa, bean.

Ben 40:13

Okay, fo yes, yes, focus. Where are we? Where are we? Yes, so like an error. Group co group coaching. Group coaching, short-term things. This will bleed into the zygonic effect.

Fiona 40:29

Oh, okay.

Ben 40:32

So these groups. You have groups three to four times a year, maybe. Six-week shred, eight-week transformations, in the new year, of course, over Easter, over the summer, autumn, whatever. People run groups intermittently throughout the year. So when people have have gone off on their own, their misery meter is built up, it's overflowing. Oh, here's a nice six-week shred. Here's a nice eight-week transformation thing. No. I'm offering something long term. A little bit cheaper, but it's long term. People like these six-week, these eight-week things because they've just got just enough energy to do them, just for that period of time. And it closes a loop, which we're going to get into. It closes a loop. You open you open a loop with a six-week shred, and you can close the loop by completing the six-week shred.

Fiona 41:26

Hmm.

Ben 41:27

And then you go back to your normal life. You go, oh, I'm ready. I feel good. I'm going to apply all the tools that I learned. If you learnt any, depending on how good the coach is, I'll be good. And then four months later, three months later, six-week shred. Oh, yeah, I'm going to have to do it again. It's gone to pot. Here we go again.

Fiona 41:47

And you're going to do that one because it worked once.

Ben 41:50

Open the loop for six weeks, close the loop. Brilliant. Feel better. Okay. And people spend their lives doing that. And that's not a bad thing, to a degree, because that's better than doing nothing, maybe. So they just do these group programs intermittently throughout the year. And that just keeps them ticking over. And then some people, hopefully, will get to the point where they can tick over for the long term. And they might just want to because they like the person. Or some of their friends are, oh, should we just do this six-week shred just to tone up before Christmas? Yeah, alright, well, yeah, why not? Why not? But they're not doing it based on, oh, do you know what I've hit rot bottom again? My diet's gone to poop. I'm not exercising. I know what to do. I know the habits I need to start following to get back on track, and I just can't do it. Okay, I'll have to just do this. So the pushbull health app is meant to fix that. It's not short term, it's for the long term.

Fiona 42:52

That's great.

Ben 42:52

And within and within the app, we will have challenges within the app. So we do it. We'll have these challenges if people want to.

Fiona 43:01

Well that's a great advertisement.

Ben 43:02

Not trying to get people just to, oh, I'm really miserable. Oh, here it is, six weeks. Oh, brilliant. And then you go off.

Fiona 43:10

Bye.

Ben 43:11

Bye. See you in free mums. That's the reality, isn't it, for a lot of people? That's the reality.

Fiona 43:16

Yes, it is.

Ben 43:17

Other programmes I'm sure will offer some continuing support for a nice chunky fee.

Fiona 43:28

Yes.

Ben 43:29

And then I'm sure people drop off that because it's probably too expensive. They're now paying more money just for an ongoing thing. Gyms, whatever. They're paying more money just for an ongoing thing they're not following. So it's not a six-week tread anymore. It's just uh, oh, this is a monthly fee. And we'll just continue the habits. Oh, I'm not doing the habits. Life's got in the way again. Alright. Is this making sense? Is any of this making sense?

Fiona 43:56

A little bit. I feel like we're going around circles a bit. I don't know why.

Ben 43:58

It's all linked in. I can't remember. But the the original reason why I got onto that point.

Fiona 44:02

No. Um will we talk about the procrastination?

Ben 44:05

I don't think you've got any of that, Fiona, which is a shame because there's there's some good stuff in there.

Fiona 44:08

Yes, no, I feel as though we've talked about it though.

Ben 44:10

No, because it links into right, just get to the procrastination leaf and zygonic effect because you've switched off.

Fiona 44:17

No, I haven't switched off, dear. I just feel as though it was a bit long-winded. And I kind of looked at it. I don't think you were quite getting I lost uh kind of the originality of it. Oh, right.

Ben 44:26

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Fiona 44:30

Do apologize. Right. Cognitive avoidance or the procrastination loop. Thinking about the gym longer than it would take to go.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

We all do that, don't we?

Fiona 44:41

Spending hours mentally writing an email instead of sending it. Oh my god, that's you. That's you. Avoiding a five-minute task for five days, that's me. Creating more stress by avoiding the thing that would reduce the stress. Feeling exhausted from thinking about action rather than doing the action.

Ben 44:58

Oh yeah.

Fiona 45:00

Oh, they're good ones. They're good ones, Ben.

Ben 45:03

Okay. Yeah. Great.

Fiona 45:05

Yeah, you spend hours with your messages, don't you?

Ben 45:09

Sometimes. Sometimes. I need to be. Yeah. I'm just quite conscious of maybe not so much online. Oh god. Oh the eyelash. Oh the eyelash.

Fiona 45:22

Shall I pluck it on camera?

Ben 45:23

Maybe not so much online. I feel like there's a bit more leeway online. Hence why we do these. Because I'm trying to to remove the filter somewhat. But then I I then post these in the local area. So it doesn't quite work. But when I'm talking to people, businesses, people around here. I just want to get to the point where I can just tell them to politely go away. And that they are massive. Because a lot of them are. A lot of people I deal with around here. Tough.

Fiona 46:00

Right. Not good.

Ben 46:01

And I'm sure, I'm sure they think I'm the biggest that they've met. Mostly because it's the standards, I think. So my standards are up here.

Fiona 46:12

So how is that cognitive avoidance though?

Ben 46:15

I'm talking about the fact that I spend too much time being very careful with what I'm saying. Right, so I so I I waste too much time on emails, on messages.

Fiona 46:24

Right. Now I understand. Because you're making sure to tone is correct.

Ben 46:27

Yes, which is because standards are here. My standards are here. And I'm sure people, in their own mind, think their standards are there as well. I think they're down here. So when I ask people to try and raise theirs, they can't do it. It seems to be a bit of a strong, it seems to be just a thing that I'm coming across. I'm just trying to be very careful though. People in the local area, they see my wacky videos. Me just making up stuff on the spot. They're like, this guy's such a clown. It's very difficult. It's very difficult to get the balance of releasing these videos. People thinking that, oh, he looks a bit unprofessional. Not too sure about that. Getting them in to the Pushbull Health studio or on the Pushbull Health app and going, God, you know, bloody hell, this this is pretty good stuff.

Fiona 47:13

Is it the last one feeling exhausted from thinking about action rather than doing the action? I find this at work all the time. People ring me, oh, do you think I should do this? And I'm just like, Yes. Why wouldn't you do that? Because they're just they don't want to do it. And it's just like, just get on with it. But you've had a conversation with me for three minutes. You would have had that done in one minute. But you've just created more time wasting by ringing me, knowing that you should do something. So why?

Ben 47:38

I'm sure there's many people. Hopefully there's many people out there who I just I don't get it.

Fiona 47:42

Just get like people ring and they mourn mourn to you about whatever, whatever it is, and you're just like, okay, but you've spent 20 minutes mourning to me about it, so you've wasted 20 minutes of your time, which has now delayed you even further, and the outcome is still gonna be the same. You're gonna have to do it. Why are you mourning about it? Just crack on with it. I hope there's many people out there.

Ben 48:03

Oh Jesus Christ. Whoa! Yeah. Let me get a word in.

Fiona 48:08

Ces you.

Ben 48:08

Let me get a word in, you.

Fiona 48:10

C'est you.

Ben 48:10

Yes, scamp.

Fiona 48:12

God. Oh, I don't like when you're like this mood. Scamp.

Ben 48:15

Let's cut that bit out. Why? No, no, not that bit, sorry. The bit before I start talking about standards and raising my hands up and down.

Fiona 48:21

Yeah, and it's because I didn't think that sofa's getting whack.

Ben 48:23

It's fine, it's fine because I just I I need we need to do more of this and we need to do more of the stuff. More I can't. So I find it hard to stay on topic because I'm I've got so much stuff that I want to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

Yes.

Ben 48:35

So I have to make sure I'm just doing more of the stuff. And I waste too much energy. It's all LinkedIn. I waste too much energy thinking about all these ideas, all this stuff that I should be doing. Rather than just doing it.

Fiona 48:49

Yes. Shut up. Sorry.

Ben 48:51

Shut up and listen to what I'm saying because it's good.

Fiona 48:54

My penny's rumpling.

Ben 48:56

It's good stuff. Holy hell.

Fiona 48:58

I'm so sorry.

Ben 49:00

Oh my god.

Fiona 49:01

I'm sorry, darling.

Ben 49:04

My neck. I spend way too long, way too much energy thinking of just, oh god, I'd like to do that. Oh, I need to do this. I need to do that. Yeah, yeah. Rather than just doing it. I'm getting to the point now. I'm trying to move on. I'm getting to the point where I'm just trying to, every time, about whinging about stuff, moaning about stuff. For a lot of things, the things I really struggle with this year and other stuff is rely on other people to do their bit. And right, so it all links in, it's all there. I just because it just comes out. It's verbal diarrhea. So it's just trying to link it back up. So I can try and link it back up now. I'll cut that bit out and we'll bring it back around to this. It's relying on other people. So when you're trying to do stuff and you're trying to move things in the right direction, and you have to go, right, I need to give this to someone else. I can't do everything. Someone else has got to take over. I will I will give them money because I need to spend my time doing other stuff, because I can't do everything. Because then everything just gets diluted. And then that person, standards. Try and keep mine as high as possible. And then you get a response. And it's like, oh, oh, okay, they're down here. There's a massive there's a big gap. That's a pretty big gap, isn't it? That's a big gap for your owner.

Fiona 50:19

That is a big gap, then.

Ben 50:20

So you're relying on other people to do stuff. And their standards are so bad. They're so low. In my opinion. I imagine that they think their standards are sky high.

Fiona 50:33

And your standards are low.

Ben 50:34

Potentially.

Fiona 50:35

Yes.

Ben 50:36

That's difficult. That's tough. When it comes to energy, like we've said about trying to just do stuff. Do the thing. You'll spend more energy just worrying about doing the thing or oh, I should do this. I should go to the gym. I should be conscious of all the things that struggle my girl. Just start finding ways to start doing the thing. So I really try to limit myself this year and beyond forever now. Just ranting about people. Just for the sake of it. Just ranting about them.

Fiona 51:09

You have gotten better, actually.

Ben 51:10

But it's hard, it's hard to not have that because if you rely on other people to help you out to move things forward and they drop the ball, or their standards are just so low, that's really, really frustrating. Because you've tried to offset certain things to other people, you've paid them money. And it's still it's still not good enough. It's still rubbish. For them, it might be good. For you, it's it's just no, this is not good enough. I've tried to make changes, I've tried to conserve my energy for other things. So when I moan about stuff, a lot of the time, if it's in my control, as I've said before. So you moan, you have a rant, yeah, this person, that person, this person. And then it's just me standing there going, What are you gonna do about it?

Fiona 51:59

Hmm. That's one another another person.

Ben 52:02

What are you gonna do about it, Ben? Oh god.

Fiona 52:04

It's another person that you say.

Ben 52:06

So yes, now it makes sense. Because I've tried to do something about it. So that doesn't always work, and that's it's sometimes annoying because I've tried to do something about it. I've tried to give it to someone else to help me out, and they've dropped the ball. Standards, mine, theirs. That's annoying. I'm striving to get to the point where most of the things that need to be done or need to be improved is under my control. So when I'm happy so when I'm having a rant, when I'm moaning about certain things, me or someone else can go, all right. Yeah, that sounds tough. Bloody hell, feel for you. Really feel for you, buddy. What are you gonna do about it?

Fiona 52:52

I don't know what I'm gonna do about it.

Ben 52:53

Oh god, okay. So you you can apply that to your life. Hopefully, like we talked about the Sunk Cost fallacy, there might be just low touch, small things that you can do that might not take up that much energy. Where if you if you do find yourself whinging about it, getting irate, getting upset, there might be certain things that you can go, hang on a minute. Look in the mirror. Okay. Start small, what are you gonna do about it? Hmm. Right. Okay.

Fiona 53:26

Did that make sense, Fiona? That made better sense.

Ben 53:29

Oh, sorry. That made better sense.

Fiona 53:31

Yes.

Ben 53:31

It's frustrating when you have to rely on other people.

Fiona 53:33

Yes.

Ben 53:34

So you try and do something about it. So then you have to then go, right, I need to I need to have a different approach. I need to find someone else. I need to make more money so I can get someone better to help me out.

Fiona 53:48

Delights.

Ben 53:50

Okay, yeah, so ramblings. Rambling slightly, but as always, I look forward to editing it because I'm sure there's some pearls there.

Fiona 53:58

I'm sure there is.

Ben 53:59

Pull those out. Gotta meet you. Sorry about that. Right, let's come on. Let's finish strong.

Fiona 54:08

Let's talk about the zygaric effect because I've been waiting to talk about this for ages.

Ben 54:12

Yeah, we should have just mentioned the zygaric effect, and then more of the stuff, more of those ramblings would have made a bit more sense.

Fiona 54:18

Probably. But you know, you live and you learn. Doesn't make sense why you talk about waiters.

Ben 54:23

That's where it comes from. Right. Let me explain.

Fiona 54:26

Proceed.

Ben 54:27

The zygarn effect. The mental baggage of unfinished tasks. So Bloomers Igarnic, Dr. Bloomers Igarnic, I believe she was a doctor. She observed waiters in a in a restaurant could remember everyone's order. Without even writing it down. And then once everything was delivered to the table, that's it. I think what happened was they left the restaurant and then she forgot her scarf or something, something happened where she had to go back two minutes later, and the waiter had forgotten who she was. Oh, sorry, I forgot my scarf. Oh right. Where were you sitting? Oh, table seven. I've literally just left. Oh right, okay. Yeah. I'll just go and grab it for you. I'm pretty sure that's the story.

Fiona 55:20

Right. You said I was paid orders here.

Ben 55:23

Yes, because the waiter or waitress, once the loop had closed, on that table on their orders, they'd forgotten it. Like you would if you are studying.

Fiona 55:32

Well it's like that.

Ben 55:33

And you just you just cram stuff in to pass the exam. But you don't retain any of it. So once you've passed the exam and you finished it, go on. If someone asks you the following week, oh you know, see for question eight, don't know. Can't remember. I've closed the loop. I didn't retain any of that, unfortunately. Sorry.

Fiona 55:54

Well, yeah, but it's like people coming in to work and stuff and you see them on the street. You don't remember who they are. Well, I don't.

Ben 56:04

Wow. I think next or awake. Right, did that make sense, Fiona?

Fiona 56:09

Sorry, because we've got to make sense now then explain things to me. Yes, I get it. I get it that you can't you can't set until you finish something, basically.

Ben 56:18

It's closing loops.

Fiona 56:19

Yes. Unfinished tasks.

Ben 56:22

So that kind of goes into the six-week shred thing I was talking about earlier.

Fiona 56:26

Yes. That makes sense.

Ben 56:27

Opening opening loops, closing loops.

Fiona 56:29

Mm-hmm.

Ben 56:30

And then the examples were if the zygaric thing and the the story I just talked about, the waiter and the waitress, shows finishing on cliffhangers. That's become a really big thing. Well, it's always been a thing, hasn't it? But I'm pretty sure Netflix shows are now written to make sure that on each episode you have to include a cliffhanger.

Fiona 56:50

Well yeah, it's really annoying. Which is especially end of season.

Ben 56:52

But now it defeats the point because you can binge pretty much every show now. So you haven't got to wait. So something like Lost back in the day.

Fiona 57:01

Stranger Things. You have to wait for that.

Ben 57:04

Yeah, right. So that's kind of original actually. Yeah. To a point.

Fiona 57:07

But yeah, back in the day when you were watching Lost, you had to wait days. Right. Weeks. It was a week every week.

Ben 57:12

Yes.

Fiona 57:13

Yeah.

Ben 57:13

So you had to wait a full seven days on that cliffhanger. Breaking down tasks into smaller steps. A progress bar for life. Not quite sure what I meant by that.

Fiona 57:29

If it doesn't make sense to you, it doesn't make sense.

Ben 57:31

More like to start something that you finished. Yeah, yes and no. Yes and no. People like to close loops. But I think yet yet again that can cause problems for a lot of people. Sign cost fallacy. You open the loop to do something, and you just can't bring yourself to close it. You try your best for as long as possible to close the loop, whatever that may be. However you can define closing the loop of whatever you're doing. Some stuff can't be closed. Hence the six-week shreds. I think for a lot of people it's not really ideal to close the loop on those because exercise, diet, they need to be there forever. You can't just close the loop on your diet. Exercise, yeah, you can take it or leave it. But ideally it needs to be there forever. So that loop shouldn't be closed. Yeah, but it needs to remain open.

Fiona 58:38

Yeah, but then you say, what did you say, breaking down tasks into smaller steps? So you can break the loop. Oh, I'm gonna just gonna do one month of this, and then okay, now I'm gonna do another month, now I'm gonna do another month. So you're breaking it down into smaller tasks. So you're closing each individual loop.

Ben 58:53

Ideally, yes. And then that is the progress bar, isn't it? Yes. So rather than have this, I'm doing this, I need to lose ten stone.

Fiona 59:01

Yeah, you break it down.

Ben 59:02

And I won't close the loop until I've lost ten stone. It's having those small wins along the way.

SPEAKER_01 59:08

Yeah.

Ben 59:08

So having open loop, closed loop, and then having twenty-five mini open and closed loops. That would probably work better.

Fiona 59:20

Yes.

Ben 59:23

Because if you don't lose X amount of weight, the loop can never be closed. And if it's all about that. Yes, there's a lot more to it, Fiona. There's a lot more to it. We should have spent a lot more time on it, unfortunately.

Fiona 59:37

Well, we spent two hours.

Ben 59:39

Not on this though, not on this. On all the other ramblings. Well, that's Well, what more, what more? That's the one more. The finishing off. What else? What else is there to say about it? You're getting it. Are you getting the zygaronic effect?

Fiona 59:51

I gave you an example. Right. I quite like it. Yes. I quite like it.

Ben 59:54

Open and close loops.

Fiona 59:55

I don't like not finishing tasks, to be fair.

Ben 59:58

Right. So it goes it links in with the procrastination loop, doesn't it?

Fiona 1:00:01

Yeah.

Ben 1:00:02

So you're always thinking about that open loop.

Fiona 1:00:05

Hmm. But then it wasn't having willpower as well, isn't it? And all that.

Ben 1:00:13

Anything else to say about the zygaric effect? I'm sure plenty. I'm sure there's plenty to say. We'll have to revisit.

Fiona 1:00:19

Maybe.

Ben 1:00:20

Oh no. That means we're opening a loop.

Fiona 1:00:22

Oh no, we don't revisit it then.

Ben 1:00:23

Oh god, sorry, that was the whole point of this episode. That was the whole point. This is part two. There's just been a loop, hasn't it? There's just been a loop opened and it's just been horrendous. So much energy and and brain power has been wasted on. Oh god, we need to do part two. We need to do part two. Oh god, we can't move on. We need to do part two. We need to close the loop. Oh god. So great. Great that this loop is being closed.

Fiona 1:00:49

You just said.

Ben 1:00:51

No, it makes perfect sense. So this is this is part two of the episode that we started, part one, almost a month ago. And the whole time since I've gone, we have to do part two because we need to close the loop on that episode. And mercifully, we are finally closing the loop because we are doing part two. But I've wasted so much time and energy with life getting in the way. Oh god, we need to do part two, Fiona. I can't move on from this topic. Or I can't start doing more. Start planning the new episode because we need to finish part two. Because we didn't finish it, because there's an open loop. And now we're closing it.

Fiona 1:01:32

Feels good, doesn't it?

Ben 1:01:34

You tell me, Fiona. Is that making more sense?

Fiona 1:01:36

Yes, it is.

Ben 1:01:37

It seems like you're flagging over there. You flagging.

Fiona 1:01:39

I'm hungry and my stomach's a bit dodgy and I need to do we.

Ben 1:01:42

Oh right, okay. Why don't you just announce it? What do you announce?

Fiona 1:01:47

I just did.

Ben 1:01:47

That's Archie, that's a project.

Fiona 1:01:49

Yes, I'm flagging then. But it is over an hour. I've got about an hour in me usually, that's it.

Ben 1:01:53

An hour. Yes. That's fine. That's fine.

Fiona 1:01:56

You have to take into account the half an hour before as well.

Ben 1:01:59

Standing up, yeah.

Fiona 1:02:00

Yeah, no, the ramblings. I had already set up. But the ramblings before.

Ben 1:02:03

You have to you have to have some kind of ramblings because you have to warm up. It's it's unrealistic just to go straight in.

Fiona 1:02:08

It takes its toll.

Ben 1:02:09

Takes its toll. Takes its toll. What do you mean it takes its toll?

Fiona 1:02:12

On me.

Ben 1:02:13

Does it?

Fiona 1:02:14

Right.

Ben 1:02:15

It's been a very interesting episode, hasn't it?

Fiona 1:02:16

Very interesting episode, but we're closing the loop.

Ben 1:02:19

People would kill to be in your position.

Fiona 1:02:21

Would day.

Ben 1:02:23

We'll come back to the zygarnik effect.

Fiona 1:02:25

We will.

Ben 1:02:25

We'll come back to it.

Fiona 1:02:26

But we'll come back to the loop. So we haven't closed the loop because we're coming back to the loop.

Ben 1:02:35

We've closed the loop on this episode. On the edge, that's a big thing. On the edge. Once we finish off the film, I'll feel better.

Fiona 1:02:43

Good.

Ben 1:02:44

I'll feel better. Anything else, Fiona?

Fiona 1:02:48

No, dear. Let's talk about the movie.

Ben 1:02:50

Oh. You're closing the loop, are you?

Fiona 1:02:53

I'm closing the loop. The loop is well and truly closed. I think you've said everything that you need to say.

Ben 1:02:59

Oh god, trust me, I haven't. Right. Oh, trust me, there's plenty more.

Fiona 1:03:02

In your own time, you can do that then, can't you?

Ben 1:03:05

We can just stop and have a toilet break, Fiona. That's fine. No worries. Or we're a nappy.

Fiona 1:03:09

I need to eat as well. I don't know why I need to eat, but I need to eat.

Ben 1:03:13

Well, I think eating, eating's a bit of a push on the show, isn't it? That's that's unrealistic, you know. People gotta watch.

Fiona 1:03:18

Yes.

Ben 1:03:18

Watching you chom down like a bloody horse.

Fiona 1:03:21

I don't chom down like a bloody horse.

Ben 1:03:25

Maybe we'll test that. Maybe we'll test that theory.

Fiona 1:03:28

Maybe not.

Ben 1:03:29

See what the viewers think.

Fiona 1:03:30

Right. Anyhow, moving on. What movie did we watch 10 years ago?

Ben 1:03:37

A while ago, yeah. Yeah, so this is it. This is as we do for every episode, we have a film. We do. Which and this is a pretty pretty good film.

Fiona 1:03:44

It's a very good film, yeah.

Ben 1:03:46

Actually, unfortunately, yeah. We started part one, open the loop, I think about a month ago now.

Fiona 1:03:52

Yes.

Ben 1:03:53

So that means we watched the film about a month ago. Yeah.

Fiona 1:03:57

But it's a good film. Care to say what it is.

Ben 1:04:02

The Truman Show.

Fiona 1:04:04

Ooh, what year, Ben?

Ben 1:04:06

90 oh 98, was it?

Fiona 1:04:08

Well done. Lovely. What do you think it got on the IMDB?

Ben 1:04:12

The high sevens?

Fiona 1:04:14

No.

Ben 1:04:15

8.2.

Fiona 1:04:16

Excellent. Well done.

Ben 1:04:18

Wow.

Fiona 1:04:19

Yeah, 8.2 out of 10. I think very, very fair. So an insurance salesman begins to suspect his whole life is actually some sort of reality TV show. So we've got Jim Carrey as Truman, Laura Linney as Merrill, his wife, Noah something as his friend. No, Noah Emmerak, which is his friend Marilyn, Natasha, which is Lauren. Is that the girl that he fancies?

Ben 1:04:44

Yeah, I've got to find Ed Harris, of course.

Fiona 1:04:48

He's Christoph, he's the producer, the director, the maker, the everything of the show. Yes. Yes.

Ben 1:04:52

Yes.

Fiona 1:04:53

Okay.

Ben 1:04:57

Okay.

Fiona 1:04:59

So yeah. What did you think? Yeah.

Ben 1:05:05

I I reckon, I reckon we should we should just be really diligent moving forward and have the film review at the start of the show.

Fiona 1:05:11

Right.

Ben 1:05:12

What do you think? So it's relevant.

Fiona 1:05:17

How I don't understand how it took him that long to realise he was in a TV show. Because surely to God, there should have been mistakes, there should have been this, there should have been that. The advertisements did everything.

Ben 1:05:33

Well, there was, wasn't there? There was. We see the mistakes. The light falls out from the sky.

Fiona 1:05:37

But he didn't pay any heed to it.

Ben 1:05:40

Well he did. I suppose it became harder as he grew older.

Fiona 1:05:45

Hmm. I suppose it was her, um, the Fiji woman, um, putting things into his head as well, saying, Oh, you know, this isn't this isn't your life, or whatever she was saying.

Ben 1:05:54

Yes. So that was sitting with him for a while.

Fiona 1:05:56

Yeah. And the fact that they kept coming in and taking her out and Doing odd things when he was around her. I just I just yeah, I just don't understand why it took so long.

Ben 1:06:11

Well, look, if we'd have talked about this a month ago, we might have got into the weeds a bit more.

Fiona 1:06:15

But in the kitchen when she was saying about the core call beans and the advertisements and stuff, that was fairly bloody obvious.

Ben 1:06:21

Yeah, I'm pretty sure by this point he's like, sorry, who are you talking to?

Fiona 1:06:24

Yeah, exactly. That's what he did. That was his reaction.

Ben 1:06:26

Well, look, this this sums it up perfectly because I don't think this review is gonna be very good, but this sums it up from Ed Harris. We accept the reality of the world with which we are presented. That's a good summary, isn't it, for what we've talked about? That is a good idea. For the film, for what we've talked about, the topics.

Fiona 1:06:43

That is a good summary. Yeah.

Ben 1:06:45

If that's all he's known, these slight odd occurrences that are happening, the lights falling down, and then but then they always they always correct it, don't they? They always correct you straight away. So so they always close the loop. So anything that happens, the loop's closed pretty quickly. So when he is like, Oh, do you know what is there more to life? Oh, I would like to go to Fiji. That's been put in his head from the woman. Oh, maybe I should go back on the boat again. So they're to open and close the loop very quickly. Oh, we just killed the dad. Drown him because he can't he can't go on the boat. We need to get rid of that because then he's gonna eventually might just float out and hit the uh hit the edge of the world. So, right, so how do we open so that loop's now open? We need to probably close that just in case because as he gets older, that might be a problem. Right, we'll just kill the dad. Oh, okay, yeah, good idea. The light falls down on the radio quite soon after. Oh, there was a meteor. What was it? What was the story?

Fiona 1:07:41

I can't remember.

Ben 1:07:42

There was a story where something had happened.

Fiona 1:07:45

Yes, maybe.

Ben 1:07:46

Like a bit of a plane had fallen from the sky. He was like, oh, okay, oh. That's reasonable, yeah. Okay. So loop's closed, right? Brilliant.

Fiona 1:07:51

But even his home life, like, you know, this is 1998, you said, wasn't it? What year were we? What year was this for the city?

Ben 1:07:58

I'm not quite sure when this is set. It's very Stepford Wivesy, like 19 is that 1915?

Fiona 1:08:02

Yeah, but even the cars and everything has that kind of weird tang to it. But she was working as well, so Yes.

Ben 1:08:10

What's wrong with that?

Fiona 1:08:10

Well, usually Stefford Stefford wives, if that once they're married, it goes. Oh right, yes. So I I just wasn't really sure about what year it was. But it was odd, yeah. I just But surely he would I don't know. Like has he never he has he ever left that town? Is there other towns? Or has he always just stayed in that town?

Ben 1:08:31

Yes, yes, that's that's the point, isn't it? That's the point.

Fiona 1:08:35

I just don't understand.

Ben 1:08:37

Because every time he's incentivized to want to leave and to go to Fiji.

Fiona 1:08:42

But what but just what about just nipping down the road to the next town? Did he never do that? Is there another town?

Ben 1:08:51

Well, take away the Fiji and the woman coming in and saying, Oh, I'm off to Fiji and putting something in his head where it was like, Oh, actually, is there more to life than this town? He just goes to work every day. Comes back. We accept the reality of the world in which we are presented.

Fiona 1:09:09

Well, yeah, that's true. Yeah. That's a good quote, to be fair.

Ben 1:09:15

How many people in life do you know that just reside in the same town and the same area? And they've got absolutely no ambition to do anything else.

Fiona 1:09:23

Well, yeah, I suppose. I suppose he's fairly content. He doesn't know any better, does he?

Ben 1:09:27

If you ask people, Oh, would you not like to go to Benedor? Would you not like to maybe just drive an hour down the road?

unknown 1:09:33

No?

Fiona 1:09:34

And I suppose they um I suppose like back back then, 1998 obviously, but back then where whenever this was set, it was very different. People did stay at home and they didn't really go anywhere, did they? They didn't really travel. I suppose it's a different era, isn't it? As well. But then you get the I like to think that I'll be quite observant. So you've got him realising, oh, these people are walking in a certain direction, and then they do it again in five months' time, the car drives past once that person is doing it. Has he never noticed that before? Oh, that car's driven there and the bike the the newspaper guy's right there.

Ben 1:10:13

Yes, I know, but but he does, doesn't he? He starts to question his reality. That's the whole point. He starts to notice it.

Fiona 1:10:18

Why does it take so long? Like what age is he? He must be what, late 30s?

Ben 1:10:24

He's 30, isn't he?

Fiona 1:10:24

Yeah. Oh, is he 30? Oh, okay. I thought he was older, in it.

Ben 1:10:29

Accept the reality of the world, which we are presented.

Fiona 1:10:31

Yes, yes, yes. Yes.

Ben 1:10:33

Got him uncomfortable. But yes, of course. It's on a different show, a different time, you could really start nitpicking on a well that's the answer, Fiona. Would you prefer to do nitpickers?

Fiona 1:10:44

No.

Ben 1:10:44

No, I mean, for this part of the show, would you prefer to do nitpickers?

Fiona 1:10:47

I don't know. It depends on the movie, doesn't it?

Ben 1:10:49

Oh okay. So we used to do a thing back in the old day where we had a segment of uh we just used to pick the the knits out of the films. Uh it was quite short-lived.

Fiona 1:10:58

Yeah. Um yeah, what else do we have to say? How come so they had everything so controlled? You're alright, Debian.

Ben 1:11:07

I'm just I'm just staggeringly uncomfortable.

Fiona 1:11:10

They had everything so controlled with you know, you know, you saying about them closing the loops very quickly, mechas, whatever. But how did Yoan ring into the show then to call them?

Ben 1:11:25

You mean Ed Harris? No, Edward. Christian.

Fiona 1:11:27

What was her name again? Christoph.

Ben 1:11:28

Christoph. Christoph.

Fiona 1:11:30

Lauren Linny, the girl. No, that's his wife.

Ben 1:11:32

That's his wife.

Fiona 1:11:33

No. Yep, that's his name, sorry. Um Lauren is Natasha McLarlen. That's the Fiji woman.

Ben 1:11:38

Okay, that's fine. Yep.

Fiona 1:11:39

Um how did she ring into the show?

Ben 1:11:42

Because she lives out of the dome, isn't she? She lives in the real world.

Fiona 1:11:44

Oh, he was taking calls from the outside world, wasn't he? Uh-huh. Oh yeah. You see, I have it in my head, and I don't know why. I have it in my head that she made contact with Truman on this show. She rang Truman. I don't know why I I said it to you before. I know.

Ben 1:12:00

They just met, didn't they?

Fiona 1:12:01

Yeah, I've met it up. I made it up.

Ben 1:12:02

But we But she tried to get his attention a few times. So you you would have thought that she'd have been booted off the set a while ago. Or just take her away. I don't know, it's TV, I suppose. So it's always getting that balance, isn't it? It's TV. It's what people want to see. So Truman's going with his wife over here, but he's got this other love interest. So it's balancing, it's a TV show. So you have to make you have to make it interesting. Things have to happen to Truman, don't they?

Fiona 1:12:29

Imagine that, doll.

Ben 1:12:30

Because he lives he lives this very boring reality. So they have to throw a spanner in the work sometimes. It's that fine balance between, well, we need to make sure he doesn't find out, but we need to make sure that viewers are tuning in. So we need to introduce this love interest or something happens, events. And I suppose when you're when you become an adult, it's a lot harder. Just in life, because when you become an adult, it's just monotony. You just do I'm yeah?

Fiona 1:13:03

Yeah.

Ben 1:13:03

You ready?

Fiona 1:13:04

Go.

Ben 1:13:04

You calm?

Fiona 1:13:05

Yeah.

Ben 1:13:07

When you become an adult, life is quite boring. It's monotomy, isn't it? Yeah. You just do the same thing over and over and over again. So from the ages of zero to eighteen or twenty one, you can introduce more wacky things. Like they even tried to go to on holiday, didn't they? I don't know how they quite did that. They they went somewhere. They must have taken him somewhere else on a sound stage and then in the background put monuments. There's that picture, isn't there, of them on holiday? I'm not quite sure how they did that, but probably just draw around in circles. Right.

Fiona 1:13:49

And then just didn't went to another set.

Ben 1:13:51

So really that was a lot harder, wasn't it? That was a lot harder because they had to keep it fresh. He was a child, so they had they had to keep things going on all the time.

Fiona 1:13:58

Yeah, but if he was in yeah, but as a kid, if they were driving around, he wouldn't have noticed that.

Ben 1:14:02

No, but so when you become so he gets older, and then they have to then try and keep it kind of fresh. But it's hard because being an adult, for the most part, is quite boring. A lot of people are just living the Truman show.

Fiona 1:14:19

Yes. But what about the actors? What about his wife? Because yes, it's all about Truman and his reality, and obviously she's paid to be there, but she never gets any time off unless she goes to work.

Ben 1:14:32

Yes, was there a mention of conferences or seminars or something?

Fiona 1:14:36

She was going to see her gro her mother, wasn't she, for a couple of days or something?

Ben 1:14:39

Right. It's a little bit strange though, because watch are you implying that she has a life outside of this bubble?

Fiona 1:14:44

Well, so she goes back. She's got no life.

Ben 1:14:46

So her husband is watching her with Truman. And they don't show the the naughty stuff because they cut away, don't they?

Fiona 1:14:52

Yeah.

Ben 1:14:53

But okay. That's that's fine then.

Fiona 1:14:56

Surely that's very scheduled. Okay, so on Friday, the 14th, you were going to have sex with Truman.

Ben 1:15:03

Right. Well that was that was Christoph's thing, wasn't it? That was that was his next thing. That was his next project for Truman. Yes.

Fiona 1:15:11

Yeah. But then that's that's an awful lot for the actor. Because she'd actually have to have a baby, surely. Or would they pretend that she would she wear a bump or something?

Ben 1:15:22

Yeah. Yeah, so really it was it was running its course, I feel. Yeah. I feel like it it's it was ending.

Fiona 1:15:27

Yeah, I feel like closing.

Ben 1:15:29

Even with Truman not suspecting things, I feel like they were getting to the point where it was gonna start becoming troublesome.

Fiona 1:15:36

Well, Joan was at breaking point as well, um his wife, Meryl. How do you expect me to live like this? I know he was gonna I know he was going a little bit crazy and what whatever. But um, yeah, it was obviously taking a toll on her as well.

Ben 1:15:50

Yeah, it's but the biggest show in the world.

Fiona 1:15:53

Yeah.

Ben 1:15:54

So yeah. That's what it's all about, isn't it? Being an actor.

Fiona 1:15:58

Yeah, but it's it's it's that's to a new extreme, isn't it? Living on set. Being married to Truman.

Ben 1:16:06

I feel if my life is the Truman show. I feel there's enough.

Fiona 1:16:12

What do you mean?

Ben 1:16:13

I feel that's enough.

Fiona 1:16:14

I'm not an actor, Ben.

Ben 1:16:16

A lot of my life is quite boring, but j just my internal monologues, well not internal because you wouldn't hear it. My my monologues to myself.

Fiona 1:16:25

Which come out during this- Maybe you need to start start speaking to yourself in front of the mirror, just in case it is a true.

Ben 1:16:31

No, the annoying thing is the easy thing to do is just turn the camera and just talk to the camera. And I just need to do more of that. That's the annoying thing. It's it's pretty straightforward. All the stuff in your head, you just if you want to get it out, you have to do this, right? Fine. Or you maybe just talk to someone. Or if you want to just get things off your chest and just talk about them, either just sit in a room by yourself and just talk about them. Or ideally, put that on and just talk into it.

Fiona 1:16:55

Hmm.

Ben 1:16:56

And then think, oh, you know what? I feel better for doing that, and God forbid, there might be one or two people out there who like, Christ almost. Yeah. I'm getting that. I don't say out loud. I don't have anyone in my life who I could say that to, or I feel comfortable saying that to he's nailed it. Yikes. Okay. That's interesting.

Fiona 1:17:28

Yes, well, very good film. That's all I can say on it.

Ben 1:17:34

Okay, yeah, that's enough. That's enough, I feel. That's enough.

Fiona 1:17:37

But I'm gonna end it. So in case I don't see ya, good afternoon, good evening, and good night.

Ben 1:17:42

Oh right. Okay. Very iconic.

Fiona 1:17:48

It is an iconic film. It is I forgot actually how good it was until we rewatched it. We watched we watched it years ago, didn't we?

Ben 1:18:01

Okay, that will do then. That'll do. That will do.

Fiona 1:18:03

Goodbye and thank you. Salon Lash. Merry Christmas.

Ben 1:18:07

Intro, outro.

Fiona 1:18:08

Yep. Dan Michaels.

Ben 1:18:10

They're there. Canadian ball then. 2026.

Fiona 1:18:15

Do you have them yet?

Ben 1:18:16

Have what?

Fiona 1:18:17

The intros and the outros. Not yet. Have you told them about it?

Ben 1:18:19

I will do though because the good thing is you can just put them in you can add them to old episodes.

Fiona 1:18:23

Have you told them?

Ben 1:18:24

No.

Fiona 1:18:25

Oh okay.

Ben 1:18:25

No.

Fiona 1:18:26

Okay.

Ben 1:18:30

2026. I said the same thing last year, but 2026. Are you okay? What's the problem?

Fiona 1:18:45

Looks like there's something in in the corner here.

Ben 1:18:48

Uh-huh.

Fiona 1:18:49

I don't know what. I thought my laptop because I've closed it.

Ben 1:18:53

Like streaming, eh?

Fiona 1:18:54

It's fine. Oh.

Ben 1:18:55

See how the light's different for you now?

Fiona 1:18:56

It's a little bit, yeah. Yeah. Anyhow, Ben, I'm gone because I am starving.

Ben 1:19:01

Yeah, same.

Fiona 1:19:02

Right on cue.

Ben 1:19:05

Okay.

Fiona 1:19:06

Okay, bye.

Ben 1:19:07

2026. Keep going. You've opened the loop now with push for health? Think about closing it. But you won't. Because once the loop's opened, it doesn't close, and that's okay. Because some things in life aren't meant to be closed. And that's tough, isn't it? That's the tough part. It has to remain open. Oh, I'm sorry.