The SAFEST exercise for people over 60 is not what you think

Why does your body start falling apart after 50, and is there actually anything you can do about it? 

Why is walking not enough? 

And why was a 49-year-old man cast as a care home resident in 1985 with nothing more than a grey dye job?

Ben and Fiona get into the stuff nobody really explains about ageing–the muscle loss that starts in your 30s, the strength decline that accelerates after 50, and why most of the advice older adults receive sends them in completely the wrong direction.

They cover sarcopenia and dynapenia, lifespan vs healthspan, why bone density responds to load at any age, what's actually driving muscle loss during menopause, how much protein older adults actually need, and whether GLP-1s cause muscle loss or whether that's just the wrong question. The myths get a proper run-through too–walking is enough, lifting after 60 is dangerous, muscle loss is inevitable.

They finish with Cocoon. Because sometimes a film about pensioners jumping into a swimming pool full of alien cocoons is the most on-topic thing you can watch.

With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully "Push Your Health From The Pulls Of Life."

Expect Foul-mouthed narcissistic ramblings on fitness, nutrition, film, and life's daily rot. 

This weekly audio & video expansion on the world-famous 'The Daily (ish) Rot' email and video ramblings also includes: 

Usefully Useless Fitness and Diet Advice.
Half-arsed film reviews.
The exploitation of children.
True Crime recommendations.
Nutritious leprechaun-inspired recipes (short and to the point)
Narcissistic wisdom. 

WHO THE FU*K ARE WE?

Howdy,

I'm Ben, the only 'health' coach (not a life coach) who allows you to embrace your Rotten attitude towards exercise and nutrition! 

Empowering You to give the middle finger to your yo-yo diet and half-arsed exercise routine in JUST 30 Days! 

Are you sick of yo-yo-ing from one restrictive diet and hideous exercise plan to the next, begging for it to end so you can slip back into old habits? 

Only to start the same rotten cycle again?

YOUR COMPLIMENTARY 30 DAY DIET KICK-UP-THE-ARSER 

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Transcript

Fiona 0:00

Do we not need to clap?

Ben 0:01

That okay for you? That microphone?

Fiona 0:02

That's fine for me. Do we not need to clap?

Ben 0:04

That's the problem, see. That's what I'm concerned about. What? If we twist it more towards me, the microphone.

Fiona 0:10

I can't. No, you can. Just yeah. Oh.

Ben 0:13

Because you'll be turning, won't you? Hello.

Fiona 0:15

Hello.

Ben 0:17

Makes a little bit more sense.

Fiona 0:19

Wow.

Ben 0:20

We need to extend the the Pushbore Health Podcast budget so I can buy you one of these.

Fiona 0:25

I don't want one of them, thank you.

Ben 0:26

They're just so expensive. We don't want to be. They're just so so expensive. He's talking over me. They're horribly, horribly expensive. Yes. There's a newer version of this one.

Fiona 0:33

Oh right, so I'll be getting the newer you'll be getting the newer version and I'll be getting the quick. Oh, I'm sure.

Ben 0:37

I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry.

Fiona 0:39

So I get your seconds.

Ben 0:40

This is still the gold standard in podcasting. This one.

Fiona 0:43

Well, what's this thing then?

Ben 0:46

Just a good entry mic. Good quality.

Fiona 0:50

Well.

Ben 0:51

Right, we're clapping.

Fiona 0:53

One on true or after true?

Ben 0:56

One, two, three. No headphones.

Fiona 1:02

Who are you then?

Ben 1:04

I believe I'm gonna ask you to start brushing my hair.

Fiona 1:07

Why can't you brush your own hair?

Ben 1:09

Just don't do it.

Fiona 1:10

Why can't you brush your own hair?

Ben 1:11

No, I've got to start taking these seriously. I said off off camera that the YouTube man designer said that these were low quality.

Fiona 1:20

Oh. And how did that make you feel then?

Ben 1:24

Well, it's not wrong, is he? He's not wrong. Well they are low quality.

Fiona 1:28

We're bought in a pajama bomb.

Ben 1:29

It's taken it's not even that, is it? It's taken over a year for you to finally agree to block out the light.

Fiona 1:36

And that's tough.

Ben 1:37

Incredibly tough for me.

Fiona 1:38

It's all on me then, yeah.

Ben 1:41

I'm just trying to get through these in one piece.

Fiona 1:43

Same.

Ben 1:44

And I begged you. On my hands and knees. Please. Please, that sunlight is is just coming in, streaming in, and it's blocking our faces. And it just looks a little bit looks very unprofessional. The content might be silly. The content might be unprofessional, but let's at least make it look half decent. Let's make the environment look nice.

Fiona 2:02

And Ben, what happened this morning? You came downstairs and everything was done.

Ben 2:09

Kind of.

Fiona 2:10

It was done.

Ben 2:11

Do you agree that this looks a bit better? I'm still not too sure about that.

Fiona 2:13

I'm too close to the camera. The lights doing my nut in. It's too dark.

Ben 2:18

It is it is still a little bit dark. I still haven't quite got the the tone of the light. I don't know. That's your job, though, isn't it, Fiona?

Fiona 2:28

It's all about learning and improving.

Ben 2:30

That's your job, but here, here we are.

Fiona 2:32

Here we are. I think we'll always be. The rebirth.

Ben 2:35

How many times have we had a rebirth?

Fiona 2:37

Talking over me. The rebirth of rebirth.

Ben 2:40

Excuse me. The rebirth.

Fiona 2:42

Yep.

Ben 2:43

This is it. And we've got this as well.

Fiona 2:45

What's this?

Ben 2:46

Just really expensive, and I've just not used it for anything. So I'm going to Well I won't. I won't do it.

Fiona 2:53

I certainly won't.

Ben 2:53

Well I'm going to try and get someone, anyone, to put some wackiness on a won't you just put your logo on it? No, I'd like to do something along the lines of what we're talking about on the episode. Because it could quite be quite funny. So this one is about the elderly being older. Older adults, I like to call them.

Fiona 3:09

Maybe you should put a picture of whatever your man is, Winfred Brumlin.

Ben 3:13

Yeah, something to yes, to that degree. A picture of a care home in the background. A toilet, I don't know, something.

Fiona 3:20

An MRI scan? Yeah.

Ben 3:22

Yeah, yeah. I've just got to find someone to do it.

Fiona 3:26

Good. That's why you'd idea man. Unimane. Idea man.

Ben 3:31

Yeah. But yeah, YouTube man. Low quality. I'm not sure if he was talking about the content or I'm hoping he was talking about just.

Fiona 3:38

Why didn't you ask him?

Ben 3:40

I did, but it it's hard. It's broken English. So it's I'm only getting 50% of it. But I saw the words low quality and I was like, wow. Yikes.

Fiona 3:48

Can't disagree. Speak full English. That's that's harsh. That's yeah.

Ben 3:52

But he's not wrong though, is he?

Fiona 3:53

I never said he was. I never said he was.

Ben 3:55

He watched a clip of us talking, horrible background, the lighting not really on properly, sun streaming in. You can't even see the face of the co-host or the presenters. You can't see them because there's the sunlight just streaming in.

Fiona 4:06

That's the idea then.

Ben 4:07

I think that's a human being. No, I t I'll tell you what it looked like. It looked like the characters from this film that we're gonna talk about. That's what it looked like. Yeah. There you go. Yeah, that's exactly what it looked like.

Fiona 4:18

Yes, yes.

Ben 4:19

I think there's a human being behind that sunlight.

Fiona 4:22

It was only me.

Ben 4:23

But I'm not watching it.

Fiona 4:24

But I like to be hidden.

Ben 4:27

Okay, right, let's get to the topic of the show, shall we?

Fiona 4:30

Who are you? Introduce yourself.

Ben 4:31

Ben, Ben from Pushpool Health. Ben from Pushpool Health.

Fiona 4:36

And I'm Fiona. The intro is still pending.

Ben 4:40

Oh. Sorry. Just a lot to get through today. The tagline on YouTube for the podcast is a temper as short as her legs. I presume I've told you this. With a temper as short as her legs, Fiona joins Ben every week to forcefully push your hell from the pools of life. I think that's pretty good though, isn't it?

Fiona 5:09

My temper's not that bad. On this.

Ben 5:14

You are five foot, I believe.

Fiona 5:16

Five foot point zero one, yes.

Ben 5:18

As a fully fledged adult? Yes. Okay. Temper that short.

Fiona 5:23

Anyhow.

Ben 5:24

It's a good tagline though, isn't it?

Fiona 5:25

No, not really.

Ben 5:26

So we get we get the pushing your health.

Fiona 5:28

You make it sound like that I'm literally a ball of rage. I'm not.

Ben 5:33

Pushing your health from the pools of life. We've got to use that tagline. It's good.

Fiona 5:36

I'm a joy. Sometimes. Not all the time.

Ben 5:40

Yeah, you are, yeah, lovely. But also a temper as short as her legs. And you join me every week.

Fiona 5:46

I'm sure your temper's not that great. You're a bit more patient and talking about it.

Ben 5:50

I'm not sure people like this. I don't know. We need more subscribers. And then people might go, oh, I just love how you two just bounce off each other and just bicker. Need more people watching.

Fiona 6:00

I don't like you.

Ben 6:01

But now. Yep, whatever the background, whatever I get the editor, the person who does this, whatever they did, put the wackiness on. Lights look a bit better, a bit dark, but.

Fiona 6:11

Anyhow. What we're doing today, Ben.

Ben 6:16

Is there anything else that we normally do? Intro. There will be an intro at some point. Yep. Canadian man. Very apt actually for this episode. He's old. He's really old, this Canadian man.

Fiona 6:27

That old.

Ben 6:27

Oh he's old. Oh he's old.

Fiona 6:29

He's not that old.

Ben 6:30

I don't even know if he's still alive. He's that old.

Fiona 6:33

Ben, he's not that old. Is he?

Ben 6:36

He's gone fifty. But that's the point. We're gonna turn it around because maybe 10, 15, however many years ago. 50. Goodness gracious. You get to 50.

Fiona 6:47

1985. Stop deaf. Those who look like 50 really look like 80. Which we'll get to later on. Do we? Yeah, you're a man.

Ben 6:57

Oh, from the film. Yeah. Okay, lots lots to get through. We're not gonna get through all of it. What we're trying to do is, as always, oh god, as always. We only do these once a month. Twice. I say forcibly every week on the tagline. It's not, is it? It's once a month.

Fiona 7:13

We have lives. Kind of.

Ben 7:16

No, we don't. No, we don't.

Fiona 7:18

Well, I just refuse to do it more often.

Ben 7:20

Right, well we get there. We get there.

Fiona 7:23

And I was already to go last week, but you would have wanted delayed.

Ben 7:27

Well, I'm glad I did, because this hopefully should be a bit better.

Fiona 7:30

Oh yeah. Anyhow, what are we talking about today?

Ben 7:34

Topics, topics, lots of to lots of topics, so we need to we need to get started. What I was going to say was we're we're trying and cut out the fluff. The scientific, evidence-based mumbo jumbo.

Fiona 7:48

Oh, I like that.

Ben 7:49

Well to a degree, I know, but we we've got a we've got a cater for the audience. There isn't one at the moment, but there will be in the future. And I I don't think they care.

Fiona 7:57

I think it's good to have some evidence to back stuff.

Ben 8:00

A little bit, but the old days just got you to read out all this stuff. Didn't work. No, I know. It was really boring. Yes. So we've moved on from that to a degree. So we're gonna have a little a tiny bit of that just to set up then the conversation we will have. So for this episode, let's just talk about real-world things. I can talk about clients, examples, our nans, our grandparents. Things that people can relate to. We'll say some of the fancy medical terms, and then just move on.

Fiona 8:34

Well, you can say it, then, because they're really hard to say.

Ben 8:36

No, it's fine. No, no, you've got to do something. You've got to do something.

Fiona 8:38

I'm here, aren't I?

Ben 8:39

Where would you like to start, Fiona? Have you looked at the notes?

Fiona 8:42

I have looked at the notes already. Yes, believe it or not.

Ben 8:44

So what do you think of the first?

Fiona 8:45

We'll start at the start. Well, do you mean we need to tell our viewers what is under what's on the notes, don't we?

Ben 8:53

Okay.

Fiona 8:53

So what are we talking about? What's the first topic this morning?

Ben 8:56

Well, before we get to the medical terms.

Fiona 8:58

Yes.

Ben 9:00

What is the topic? What are we talking about? What's the point of this episode? Maybe we should start doing that. Maybe we should start telling people at the start of the show what's the point of this episode after the rambles, after the the several minutes of just incoherent nonsense.

Fiona 9:11

Nine minutes 41 seconds. So what is the point of this episode?

Ben 9:15

You tell me, what are you gauging from the notes? The point is that 50 now, we've mentioned the the age 50, just a number, shouldn't be classified. It should have never been classified as being old. But hopefully what we're going to try and get into is that you can keep going after the age of 50.

Fiona 9:32

Well yeah, I should hope so. We're only 14 years away. 15 years.

Ben 9:38

21.

Fiona 9:39

Oh sorry. Sorry, Ben. Yeah. Yeah.

Ben 9:41

Stranger.

Fiona 9:42

Yeah, you're you're you're a younger man.

Ben 9:44

Maths are your strong point, are they?

Fiona 9:45

They actually are.

Ben 9:48

Anyway, let's get into it, right?

Fiona 9:50

Right.

Ben 9:50

I yeah, I can't make it up on the s on the fly. I can't make it up on the fly. Let's just get into the notes and then people will go, oh, do you know what? I know what you're talking about. Older adults.

Fiona 9:59

The point of this is as you get older, your body does start to decline and what you can do to help your body.

Ben 10:05

Yes, that's what I wanted, Fiona. Why why? Why why why why make me sweat over here? Trying to come up with something really just sounds like really oh he knows what he's talking about.

Fiona 10:14

Yeah, because you can't believe it.

Ben 10:16

I know I don't like being put on the spot.

Fiona 10:18

Exactly under tin. There's a lot of pressure on these. And I can't think under spot either.

Ben 10:21

But that was fine.

Fiona 10:22

That's what I got from reading your notes.

Ben 10:24

Okay. I asked you that and you didn't say anything.

Fiona 10:27

As I said, I like to make you spot.

Ben 10:28

You batted back into Michael.

Fiona 10:30

Yeah, I like to make you sweat.

Ben 10:32

The first line here, there is a deeply ingrained societal belief that as people age, they should move less. Not even should, is that they they just do move less.

Fiona 10:43

Yes, but there's probably a lot of different factors that stop people from moving less as well. Me, for example. This month, it's bloody cold.

Ben 10:53

You're old, yeah.

Fiona 10:54

I ain't going outside, I'm too cold. If I was 60, 70, obviously the older you get, there's more risk of falls, there's more risk of everything else. If you fall when you're older, you're more at risk of hurting yourself more significantly, such as a broken hip, etc. etc.

Ben 11:10

Oh steady, yeah, of course. We'll get into that.

Fiona 11:14

So there's lots of different things that can stop somebody who is older from going out as well. Exactly. Not just physical health, but the fear as well. Of course. I think the fear of something happening.

Ben 11:26

Moving is is a chore. Yeah. It becomes a chore.

Fiona 11:29

It's not as what's the word? Easy, basically.

Ben 11:33

And as we'll get into as well, what would I say as we get into that? Let's just let's just get into it now. Strength training, resistance training, lifting heavy weights, not really, up until recently, not really prompted, not really promoted. The average doctor, maybe, wouldn't openly suggest to someone who is older, who is in pain, who might be suffering from some of these conditions that we go through, to start lifting heavy weights. And an older person, or any person who is in pain already. The idea of putting themselves in more pain, making themselves more uncomfortable, going to a public gym to lift heavy things off the floor, or to sit on machines they can't use. Why would they do that?

Fiona 12:20

But I think the thing that you should take away from that is it's not going to be heavy initially, is it? Because you will start off a lot lighter. You'll only start off, you're not going to go into a gym and lift 20 kg weights, are you? If you've never done it before, you're going to start off at probably 2.5 kgs. Yes, yes. And then work your way up.

Ben 12:37

But it's still it's still challenging. Yeah. And as I I don't know if I mentioned this before, but most people don't like exercise. They've got enough on their plates. You need to find a form of exercise that you can stomach. No, I'm alright, thanks. I'm good.

Fiona 12:51

I don't stomach any.

Ben 12:52

I'm old. I'm 50.

Fiona 12:53

I'll just go for my walk. He doesn't like that, does he?

Ben 12:58

What?

Fiona 12:59

I just go for my walk. I'm not doing much. Walking.

Ben 13:01

We'll get into that. We'll get it. It's that walking. I never say to people not to walk.

Fiona 13:06

But it's just not a walking.

Ben 13:07

But it's unfortunately as you get older, especially. As you start creeping into your 50s, if you're lucky to get there, walking is not enough. It's it's great. Keep walking. It's not enough.

Fiona 13:21

So you have a couple of examples here of what people do when they see somebody old, which yeah, is quite well-meaning. And if you do see somebody struggling, you're going to help because you never know what that person. So you said helping with shopping, offering arms across the road, encouraging rest, telling them to be careful, you know, but it's all kind of alluding to the idea that that person is for real.

Ben 13:46

Yeah, so I had that bit there, and I thought, well, shall I mention it? Because it sounds like I'm almost saying, well, don't do that. If you see an elderly person trying to cross the road and they're struggling.

Fiona 13:55

Yeah, but the point is.

Ben 13:56

Tell them to get tell them to come down to the private pushwell studio.

Fiona 13:58

If they're struggling, that's that's the thing. If they're if you see somebody who's well able to do it, you're not going to go up and say, Oh, hello, Daris, take my arm, you know. If if it's somebody who's struggling, you help. But we see people and we often wonder, are they okay? Because as we see somebody who's older, we assume that they are for real.

Ben 14:15

I think it's trying to shift the narrative. That's what we're trying to do. Hopefully, by the end of this episode, we're trying to shift the narrative. About automatically assuming that as you get older, an older adult, the elderly, whatever that means. How do you define the elderly? Whatever that might mean, and there has been, there has been more of a shift now towards just because you're a certain age, just because you've got a certain medical condition that might have gotten worse through age and through lack of movement, etc. Poor nutrition, that that's it. Lifespan versus health span. Does that make sense? So lifespan, yeah, you can live to 95, brilliant. But i if you're sat in your rocker from the age of 75 for 20 years and you can you can barely get out of it and you're just pooping yourself versus health span where you live up until a certain age and it's only in the last maybe six months or a month. Because this is an ideal situation, of course. This is in many ways, this is fantasy land, isn't it, for most people, because you never quite know what you're gonna get. You never quite know when it's your time. But if you can live a a good life up until right towards the end and your health for the most part, with utilizing some of the tips that we're gonna provide, listeners, watchers, older adults.

Fiona 15:51

Everyone.

Ben 15:52

Everyone.

Fiona 15:53

The more we remove the challenges, the more it sheds our ability to function. So if we remove challenges such as helping getting off a step or something like that, it stop it it removes the challenge of being able to be independent, it reduces your confidence, being able to do it, your balance, all of those things because you're offering somebody that support. And I like that overprotection accelerates decline. That's what that thinks of that, then. Oh that's what that thinks of that.

Ben 16:24

It's fine. Yeah, it's it will do when you're stressed about it. It will do.

Fiona 16:28

New year less stress. Oh, it's really irritating you, don't we? Look at that, that foot has gone 90. It makes me sick, yeah. Yeah, that foot's gone 90.

Ben 16:37

Such an easy fix, just push it up. Just tighten it, maybe.

Fiona 16:45

It won't tighten anymore.

Ben 16:52

Yeah. Just have it a little bit higher. Yeah, okay. Just yeah, just hold it. Hold it actually.

Fiona 16:57

No, I'm not holding it when it doesn't all need to work.

Ben 16:59

That's fine. I think maybe we'll just you do better with just holding the microphone, don't you? You gotta try stuff.

Fiona 17:06

Okay.

Ben 17:07

I've got one of these things, this arm is useless, but I thought, you know what? Let's match. It'll look good. More stress. Okay, yes, continue. Yes, yes.

Fiona 17:19

So that's that's it, basically. The overprotection accelerates to decline. Obviously, it's about people who aren't struggling, isn't it? It's not about taking away the help altogether. If you see somebody who's not struggling, then you're not going to offer go up and offer help, are you? It's just an assumption. And you have to allow people to do it themselves to help them with their independence, because if somebody's crapping themselves about going down the stairs every time, then they're going to stop doing it, aren't they?

Ben 17:47

The general opinion is that older adults belong in rocking chairs, not under barbells. To be honest, I wouldn't put a lot of older adults under barbells anywhere. Really? Not initially. Not initially.

Fiona 17:59

I wouldn't even get under a barbell now.

Ben 18:00

Yeah, look by all means, if you can if you can get under a barbell at some point, why not? Doesn't hurt. But for a lot of older people, a lot of people in general, getting under barbells isn't necessary. Just another barrier, isn't it?

Fiona 18:17

Yes.

Ben 18:18

Just something else that gets in the way.

Fiona 18:19

Oh, I can just see that going wrong. I can just see this little free little old lady under a barbell and it falling on a old deer.

Ben 18:26

This is what we're trying to promote, Fiona. Yeah. On the push for health app, down at the private pushable health studio where a lot of my clients are over the age of 65. If they can get under a barbell, pain-free, why not?

Fiona 18:40

Why not?

Ben 18:41

But best bang for your buck, the risk ratio of getting a client to sit under a barbell, yeah. Probably not worth it for many people. Knees, hips, just don't like it.

Fiona 18:58

No.

Ben 18:59

So don't worry about a barbell. So if you do go to a gym after listening to this episode.

Fiona 19:03

Just do easy things.

Ben 19:04

Don't worry about getting straight into the squat rack and getting under a barbell. And and also, if you go to a gym and you have say say you do a personal training session, great. Why not? Or you have a fitness instructor or whoever. Someone shows you around the gym if you're lucky. And they get you onto a barbell. No. It's a red flag, unfortunately. For anyone. For anyone. Doesn't matter how old you are. But if you walk in as an average 65-year-old, yeah, I'm okay, I'm a little bit overweight. Knees and hips are a bit stiff to say the least. Just trying to tone up, just trying to move a bit better. Any suggestions? Yeah. I've got one. Let's get you squatting. Oh, okay, yeah. Squatting, yeah. That's that's reasonably functional. That makes sense. I need to squat myself up and down off a toilet, up and down off a chair. Fine. Right, what do we do for that then? You see that that rack? Just head over there.

Fiona 20:00

What would you recommend?

Ben 20:01

Get under that barbell. Oh, don't forget your uh your pad.

Fiona 20:03

Oh, these pads. Different oh anyway, what this is What would you recommend doing instead then?

Ben 20:08

Well, hang on, let me just finish the pad. Have you seen the pads? People use the pads for a squat bar for a barbell. You never seen a pad? I don't know. People will then do a squat and they will put the pad on.

Fiona 20:20

What? And the back of the neck? Yes. Yeah. It's like That's more convenient.

Ben 20:24

No, it's fine. It's fine because people it's it's not comfortable. Having a barbell on your on your shoulders, the shoulders of the shelf, the barbell goes there, not the neck. It's a neck pad. It's a neck pad for the bar. The bar is not meant to be on your bloody neck. Oh. That's the problem.

Fiona 20:44

Oh.

Ben 20:45

Oh god, it's it's it's hard. It's tough.

Fiona 20:48

It's tough. Right.

Ben 20:50

It is it is tough, Fiona. Oh goodness me. Gym down the road. One of the videos is a client with a barbell on their neck. Don't worry, they've got the pad on them. No, just take off their neck.

Fiona 21:01

I remember I put the barbell on the shoulders. You were training me or you shave them with me and you gave out to me about that. I think I walked out of the gym.

Ben 21:08

Alright, come join our gym. Look at this. You can do some neck squats.

Fiona 21:14

Not for me. I don't add the barbells, they're so uncomfortable. Why do it? Just no, just let me do something else, please.

Ben 21:19

Anyway, back to your question. Goblet squat.

Fiona 21:22

Oh, you do a goblet squat instead.

Ben 21:24

So or just squat squat to a box. No weight. Let's start with a bodyweight squat.

Fiona 21:29

Well, yeah, because if you're old as well, you you might have balance issues too.

Ben 21:33

Yeah, we'll well we'll get into it. So we're gonna I like this. This is good, it's good information, Fiona. I'm just I'm just wary that there is just so much to get through. So much to get through. But a bodyweight squat. Yeah. Great start.

Fiona 21:46

Yes.

Ben 21:47

Easy to progress, you just change the height of the box or the bench.

Fiona 21:51

Oh yes, we talk about it just did a day, didn't we?

Ben 21:54

Start there. T R X.

Fiona 21:55

Well I could get a TRX, but I don't do it.

Ben 21:58

Start on there.

Fiona 21:59

Even

Ben 22:00

Better maybe because the TRX will offset some of the weight for you.

Fiona 22:03

Do we have TRX here in this house?

Ben 22:05

I don't believe so. There's one at the private, there's two actually at the private pushwealth studio. Well if you join the Push Well Health app, you'll have some TRX exercises. Well maybe. You might do.

Fiona 22:17

Might do, might not.

Ben 22:18

Depends on your requirements, what you need.

Fiona 22:20

Right.

Ben 22:20

It's all personalised.

Fiona 22:22

What's our socpenia? Sarcopenia.

Ben 22:24

Sarcopenia. Yes. Yes.

Fiona 22:26

It's there for you, and so I think we can please if Sarcopenia, literal meaning is poverty of flesh.

Ben 22:34

We have mentioned this before.

Fiona 22:35

I like that. So it's basically age-related muscle loss, isn't it?

Ben 22:40

Yes, yes. To a degree, yeah. Yes. One way of looking at it, yeah.

Fiona 22:45

So average muscle mu muscle mass loss. So after tertiary, you start to lose muscle mass. So after for about 1% per year.

Ben 22:53

No, that's not after. So I think after 50, after 50, it's 1% per year on average. But after 30, and that's quite scary, isn't it? It is. After 30, after 30, it's it's if you just don't do anything about it. Oh. So each decade, after the age of 30, it will increase. But between say three to five percent of muscle mass will be lost after the age of 30. Between three to five percent each decade.

Fiona 23:21

That's a lot, isn't it?

Ben 23:22

Again, I don't want to get too bogged down the numbers. This this sort makes me stressed because I say all this stuff and I know I know it's some of it's quite boring. Some of it's interesting, some of it's not.

Fiona 23:32

But that's interesting.

Ben 23:32

So take a let's take away from that after the age of 30. It's it's the whole pass end.

Fiona 23:38

Hmm. And that's when you take it in your 20s, and your knees.

Ben 23:42

You're made of rubber and magic.

Fiona 23:43

Your hips and your neck, your shoulders.

Ben 23:45

After the age of 30. Hmm. Just just be conscious of what you're doing. If you've already got a good routine, if you're already doing some form of resistance training, strength training, going to the gym, walking, active, right, keep going. That's good. There does tend to be a drop-off after 30 for a lot of people. Due more to lifestyle circumstances. Children appear, time, work, stress, diagnosis. Yes. Dealing with their parents, grandparents.

Fiona 24:19

The partners.

Ben 24:21

But after the age of 30, you just tend to start having more responsibilities, don't you? Which then will probably impact in some way your habits, your routine, exercise.

Fiona 24:37

I'm thinking. Yeah, it's good. Okay.

Ben 24:40

Anything else from there, Fiona, about sarcopenia?

Fiona 24:43

No, but you say here that women tend to experience greater functional impact. Is that because of coming up to menopause? But that's not usually all the time.

Ben 24:50

We'll get into the menopause stuff. We'll get into the menopause around bone density.

Fiona 24:56

Oh, okay, fine. Do you mean osteopenia?

Ben 24:58

No, I think in terms of sarcopenia for women, it's it's they might be more prone to it for numerous reasons, but for one of the main reasons is just they their starting or their overall muscle mass for most women compared to men will just be lower.

Fiona 25:13

Oh right, okay, yeah.

Ben 25:14

If they naturally carry around less muscle mass. Sorry, what do I miss?

Fiona 25:20

I'm just thinking about you one time asking me, how do you even hold a fork? Oh, that's right, yeah, that's I don't have that much muscle, do you? No. I'm working on that, I've got me weight.

Ben 25:32

Can't feel the lateral head there. It's quite a small muscle, so.

Fiona 25:34

I don't have okay, thank you. That makes me feel better.

Ben 25:37

Yeah, there's a few apps, Fiona, there's a few apps. Yeah, I actually said to you yesterday. I said to you yesterday, don't use the pushbull health app. It's like me training you in the private pushbull health studio. Yeah, but we fight waste of time. I'm not doing it.

Fiona 25:49

That's when my temper comes out.

Ben 25:51

Yeah. A temper, as short as our legs. I'm not doing it. So there's apps, lots of apps, lots of decent coaches. It's like you go into a But I want the best, Ben. No, but it's like you go into another personal trainer. You could look at that and fake, hang on a minute, what?

Fiona 26:08

No, not really. No. No. Yeah, but the problem is I don't listen to you, do I?

Ben 26:12

It's only if you went to that personal trainer. The ones in this area. If you went to one of the personal trainers in the local area, and um I said, Oh, I have interest, you know, what they're getting you to do then. Let's have a look at your program. Oh, yeah, so you know, day one, you know, barbell, next squat.

Fiona 26:33

Oh tread not for 20 minutes to warm up. Yeah.

Ben 26:38

You like that? Yeah.

Fiona 26:40

Even though I've just walked down. Oh, sorry.

Ben 26:42

Sorry, the cat's over there, we've woken him up. Apologies.

Fiona 26:44

Sorry, sweetheart. Oh, yeah. Oh, he's yawning.

Ben 26:46

Oh, he's so he's so sleepy. Sorry about that. Yeah, anyway, yeah, so maybe join a local personal trainer. I I would just like to see their program and just uh just have interest.

Fiona 26:57

I'm not doing that. So what is Dynopenia?

Ben 27:06

Dynapenia, yes. Yes. Okay.

Fiona 27:08

So we've got poverty of flesh and dinopenia is poverty of strength. So strength can decline despite preserved muscle loss, uh muscle size, apologies. Strength, not mass, predicts falls, disability, loss of independence and confidence, mortality because muscle function is less than muscle mass.

Ben 27:37

Yes. Sorry, there's a few things here. I'm just looking at the notes. I'm I'm trying to keep this relaxed, but there's a few things that are probably worth mentioning. So we mentioned the the 1% after 50 of muscle mass. Strength after the age of 50, three times as fast per year. So you lose strength three times as fast after the age of 50. Say 50s. 50s, it could be younger, it could be a little bit older, but on average.

Fiona 28:02

Okay.

Ben 28:03

So muscle mass, that that's that's you're scaring me now. That's dwindling. That's dwindling. Again, the caveat.

Fiona 28:08

Well, I'm not doing nothing now.

Ben 28:09

It's it's strength three times as fast after the age of 50, for example, if you aren't doing anything about it.

Fiona 28:15

You've got mitts coming up later, don't you? To help that's got to be.

Ben 28:18

If you aren't doing anything about it, Fiona, if you aren't trying to maintain your strength or get stronger.

Fiona 28:23

I need to do my weights today.

Ben 28:25

Power, even quicker.

Fiona 28:27

Okay.

Ben 28:28

So muscle mass after the age of 50, on average, one percent per year. Wow. Yikes. Strength, times free. Power, even faster.

Fiona 28:39

Yeah, remember. I remember when I was on the wards when I was doing frailty, uh, when the frailty wards um we used to do muscle muscle tones. We used to comment on people's lower extremities what muscle they had in their legs, because obviously if they're laying in bed after whatever operation, surgery, infection, whatever, they um you just start to lose a lot of muscle tone. So we tried. That's why they try to get people out of bed more in hospitals. Well that's what they say, isn't it?

Ben 29:06

Yeah, that's that's something you need to do. You need to get people moving. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Rehab day one.

Fiona 29:11

Yeah. Well, if you go in and get a knee replacement, hip replacement, the likelihood is that you're up after the surgery a couple of hours. Not a couple of hours, but six hours at least.

Ben 29:21

I'm sure the percentages are in here somewhere, we've mentioned before, but yeah. You break a hip after the age of 65, oh boy.

Fiona 29:28

Little fraction.

Ben 29:29

You may not be coming home. If you're quite a heavy set person, if you're carrying a lot of excess weight, you should have a reasonable amount of muscle mass. Because you've got to shift that around every day. To a degree. There's something called. Yeah, but isn't that a fat born out then? Yes, of course. Yes, yes. Myocytosis, which is a a build-up and accumulation of of adipose tissue of fat in muscle, which sounds yeah, a bit ridiculous, doesn't it? The idea of fashion. Yes. But you got muscle mass, but there's yeah, they may again go back to the quality of muscle mass.

Fiona 30:15

You can have a fashy liver, you can have all of those.

Ben 30:18

Right, based on that, yeah, it makes sense. Right, anything else about dinopenia? I keep hitting my chin on this microphone. It's ridiculous. Imagine that if I knock myself out, you'd have to continue the show.

Fiona 30:30

Uh I think I just turned everything off. Well the notes are there. I think I just turn it. Why? You you conked out beside me. That'd be great, actually. It'd be done in five minutes.

Ben 30:42

I'm trying to control this fiery now. I'm the one trying to control it.

Fiona 30:45

Really? Right. So why does why as we get older does strength and power drop? So skeletal muscle is controlled by motor neurons.

Ben 30:58

A little bit sciencey, this one.

Fiona 31:00

Mm-hmm. High threshold motor units inter inter innervate type two fast twitch fibers.

Ben 31:07

So type one, type two, you've heard of those? So type one is slow twitch, type two, fast twitch. Yes.

Fiona 31:12

Yes. So these fibers, slow and fast twitch, produce power, rapid force, balance recovery.

Ben 31:20

Well, no, this is the thing. So that's more type 2, isn't it? Fast twitching. So anything that's apologies. Yes, anything that's force, power, explosiveness is very much type two.

Fiona 31:29

Yes.

Ben 31:30

Yes.

Fiona 31:31

But as we get older, these type 2 fibers or fast twitching fibers are lost first.

Ben 31:37

Goes into the strength and power that we discussed?

Fiona 31:39

Yes.

Ben 31:39

A minute ago?

Fiona 31:40

Because motor neurons start to die. Nearby slow motor neurons reinervate abandoned fibers. This causes the fibers that survive to become slower, weaker with lower power, which causes slower reactions, poor balance correction, which of course is going to cause a higher fall risk and which will cause lack of confidence as well, and then lack of independence. Right, okay.

Ben 32:06

Okay. A little bit boring, but but it we tied it in to go, right? So what's some real world examples?

Fiona 32:11

Yes.

Ben 32:12

And right, why is that relevant?

Fiona 32:14

I I I do think I do think that as you get older, confidence is a huge thing as well. Lack of confidence as you get older because you get more scared. And because I've seen it, scared of falls. I can't do that because I don't want to fall.

Ben 32:28

Well you're seeing my nan. Oh yeah. It's terrifying the idea that she comes. She's 86. She's doing reasonably well. Smoker.

Fiona 32:36

Yeah.

Ben 32:36

She's doing alright. But she walks up and down to the shop two to three times a week. It's a bit of a trek.

Fiona 32:44

Yes, good what must be 45 minute walk for her, yeah, yeah, probably.

Ben 32:48

Yeah, at least, yeah.

Fiona 32:49

And she's not one of those people that would slow down, that listens to her body, say she'd be Russian.

Ben 32:55

But when she comes here or goes to my mum's, it's and it's fine, but she's 86. So you're not going like, oh bloody hell.

Fiona 33:02

Yeah.

Ben 33:02

Sort your balance out with you. But it's terrifying. No, but just walking around, just doing anything.

Fiona 33:08

For like when she gets up, she's like, oh, it's just like slow down, woman.

Ben 33:11

Her balance looks dubious.

Fiona 33:14

Yes.

Ben 33:15

To say the least. Which is concerning. Anything to say about that? Well, it's not a lot of things. It's concerning, isn't it?

Fiona 33:24

What can you say? Because you don't want to stop her from doing it either, because obviously we know the risks.

Ben 33:31

It's like she'd have taken time ball.

Fiona 33:32

But yeah, well, yeah, unfortunately, yeah. But you don't want to reduce her confidence either.

Ben 33:37

No, of course not.

Fiona 33:38

But it's a tricky one, isn't it?

Ben 33:40

It's concerning that she's able to yeah, she's not falling in a ditch. And this this is not on a this is not a pavement. She probably has. This is along a main road.

Fiona 33:48

She has fallen in a ditch.

Ben 33:50

Remember when you're uh Oh yes, oh yes, the yes. Yes, there's uh well that was over COVID, wasn't it? So everyone was keeping their distance. I wasn't there, I didn't I didn't actually see it in the flesh, but we got pictures. Yes. Yes, everyone was keeping a distance. My mum and my uncle were there, I believe. Oh yeah. And they were yes, they were moving, they were I think they were leaving. So they were packing the chairs away and keeping the distance. My mum tried to go past my nan, and yeah, my nan lost her balance and fell in a bush.

Fiona 34:18

Didn't hurt herself, which was fantastic.

Ben 34:20

No, no broken hip. But mercifully.

Fiona 34:23

Yeah. And we got a picture first before help was given. So important.

Ben 34:26

Pictures of her stricken in the bush.

Fiona 34:29

She was laughing to be fair.

Ben 34:31

I don't think my nan was there.

Fiona 34:32

She was in the picture. She's like very happy. I've got a laugh.

Ben 34:36

Pain. Thorns.

Fiona 34:38

I don't think so. Nah.

Ben 34:40

But yeah, terrifying, concerning. And again, 86. So it's not you're not having a go at her. You're not, it's not massively surprising, but you sort of think, oh god, what would a little bit of strength training do for you? What would a little bit of working on your balance, coordination?

Fiona 34:56

Ah, it's a I'm trying to get her in the gym, do some little bits and bobs, but the good thing about your nan is, and it's it's probably not the right thing to say, but it's it's the lack of awareness as well, isn't it, for her? She doesn't actually realise how unsteady she is. It's us that's noticing it more. She doesn't notice it as much as I we do. So that's probably a good thing in her, because if she did, or she had the worry about falling and whatever, then she wouldn't do those things. And that's what's probably keeping her agile and able to go to the shop and do a 45-minute walk.

Ben 35:31

Yes, potentially. And it's just about thinking of her life and and how easy it may be for this to go wrong. If it it's like she has stairs as well. It's stuff like that.

Fiona 35:43

Yeah.

Ben 35:44

It's the little things that you don't worry about until you get older. And even if you are doing.

Fiona 35:48

Well, it fills me with dread when she's on the stairs here. I say everyone. Right.

Ben 35:52

Even if even if there is some some balance work, there is some resistance training, you are walking, you are actively you are active, you are doing stuff. You are trying to lift heavy things, you're keeping your strength up, etc. You're still gonna get some of this. Very few 86-year-olds probably aren't walking around a little bit wobbly at times. So it's not that, is it? It's just about, oh, hang on, so she's not doing any of this. She's walking, which is good, but based on her life, based on how she lives, stairs, walking up and down that road. She's really wobbly here at times, just just walking. Let alone stepping on anything. She's always on the verge of falling over. That's what it looks like. That that's the concerning part. It's not, oh, just you know, we all stumble. Don't mean if you're any, you know, we all trip over.

Fiona 36:41

Yep, you're still a triple. You're a bit of a tripper. You stumbled yesterday morning, didn't you, Ben? Getting out of bed.

Ben 36:46

Apparently. That cat's yeah, almost still on the cat, so just had to step over the cat.

Fiona 36:50

Yeah, you stumbled in the street.

Ben 36:51

This was at 5am, but there she is, one eye open.

Fiona 36:54

I never miss a trick. What was that? Did you fall?

Ben 36:59

Pathetic. What a pathetic life you live. How sad.

Fiona 37:04

Well, that's just the way it goes, Ben.

Ben 37:06

Anyway, what were we saying? What were we saying?

Fiona 37:08

Yeah, I can't remember. I'm underfalled now.

Ben 37:12

I'm sure you've seen it as well with your grandparents and then etc. Yeah. Yeah. And now you'll see it with your parents, maybe. And it's just that concern where it is it feels like at any second she's gonna go. Constantly walking on a tightrope.

Fiona 37:25

As you as you as you get old as you obviously I'm not living out in Ireland, am I? So whenever I go home every three, four, five months, whatever it is, I'm always quite shocked to see, oh, you know, there's I feel that there's a decline, there's this. Like I haven't been home since June. I know Daddy he was over here or whatever, but I haven't been home since June, so I'm expecting when I get home in February to see a decline. Because I know there's no there's not gonna be an improvement, is there? Because of lifestyle, whatever. Um there's n you know, so it it's like that decline, but then again, when they're not aware of it it's kind of like that's probably a good thing in a way.

Ben 38:11

Yeah, potentially in a way getting old stuff.

Fiona 38:16

Yeah, it's it's crap, isn't it?

Ben 38:19

It's not ideal in many ways, especially if you aren't aware of some of this, and why would you? Who's doing this? I don't expect the the average older adult. What's the problem?

Fiona 38:33

It's forty minutes already.

Ben 38:35

Alright. I don't expect the average older adult to be sitting there reading about sarcopenia.

Fiona 38:41

No.

Ben 38:42

Reading about power input, but that's your role, isn't it? To educate dead motor neurons, I don't if that's of interest.

Fiona 38:49

Is that why most um motor neurons diseases and old oils diseases are more pre prominent when you get above 60? I imagine very seldom not very seldom, but it is seldom to hear people diagnose at motor neurons before that. It's not unheard of.

Ben 39:03

I don't know if you and you tell me.

Fiona 39:04

But the most people that are diagnosed are usually in the older category.

Ben 39:07

Well I think that that's across the board for a lot of conditions.

Fiona 39:10

You know, some it's it's obviously it happens because I've seen that.

Ben 39:14

But when you get older, you're just more susceptible to all sorts of conditions.

Fiona 39:19

Yeah. So going back to the motor fibres and units. Oh, do we?

Ben 39:25

I think that's enough, isn't it, Fiona?

Fiona 39:26

So I don't know, this is interesting. They stay relatively stable until you're 60.

Ben 39:30

Yes.

Fiona 39:31

After 60, the decline accelerates to about 3% per year. So by the time someone is 80, they've lost 60% of their original motor units. So this why decline is not linear, so it's up and down. Explains why falls spike later in life. Post 60-70, we see an increase falls, and explains why early intervention matters. So get yourself the pushbowl health.

Ben 39:59

Again, caveat, all those numbers. Based on you not doing anything about it. Yes. Based on you not being active, based on you not considering doing some form of resistance training.

Fiona 40:11

The moral of the movie that we kind of watched was it's never too old.

Ben 40:19

It's never too old.

Fiona 40:20

It's never it's never too late to start something. Basically, that's kind of the moral.

Ben 40:25

What's the catchphrase before I forget? Damn, what's the quote?

Fiona 40:29

I have no idea.

Ben 40:30

It's not the it's not the Oh no.

Fiona 40:32

Oh dear.

Ben 40:33

Let me find it. It's not the years in your life that count, it's the life in your years. Great, great.

Fiona 40:44

You have a quote for everything, don't you? You're so annoying.

Ben 40:49

I don't I don't expect a lot of people to honestly sit down and watch this with a family for two hours. Not even the biggest podcast in the world. If you look at their views on YouTube, if they've got four million subscribers, you think, oh wow, Jesus, you're gonna have a million people then watching. No, it doesn't seem like it. Even for the big episodes, doesn't seem like that.

Fiona 41:10

Yeah, but sure, if you just go in and click onto something anyways, it's classified as a view, even if it's 10 seconds.

Ben 41:14

I'm not quite sure what the rules are, I should probably know that. But I mean, yes, exactly. So based on that, if they've got four million subscribers on YouTube, for an example, and then you've got people that will just see their episode flash up, you would think that would they would have a lot more views, like several hundred thousand views. I'm sure some of them do, but a lot of the ones that I follow, no.

Fiona 41:36

I have no idea.

Ben 41:37

I just I don't I don't know how people are consuming YouTube. I just think for YouTube, I don't know, it needs to be certain it's still not that interesting, is it? It's still not that No, but I mean, you know, YouTube's interesting. I mean, it's it's still for the average person, it's still not that interesting to sit down and actually watch the video on YouTube.

Fiona 41:59

Yeah.

Ben 41:59

Of people talking. However, however nice the setting looks, however nice the lights are, however wacky the background is.

Fiona 42:05

No, a lot of people would probably do it under gourd. That's why I prefer a podcast. I would never sit down, but if I was going out for a walk, I might pop pop as on.

Ben 42:13

So you know you wouldn't ever I'm 1.5 speed. There's nothing in there, there's nothing in the world, is there, for you to go, do you know what? It's like watching a film, isn't it? I'm sure that it will start to become that to a degree. That will be the future.

Fiona 42:23

I don't understand why it needs to be a video. I get it, it's for a podcast. It's for the clips, yeah. YouTube, like you said. I get that. But I'm just like, yeah, it's just easier to do it as a podcast, then everyone can be more comfortable. Yes, of course. Oh, I know.

Ben 42:35

I wish, I know. But it doesn't work like that. We're just trying to go over the times, baby. We're just trying to go over the times.

Fiona 42:41

But I've got niche ear.

Ben 42:43

Yes, it's interesting. It is interesting. This it's it doesn't the views don't seem to correlate with the amount of subscribers.

Fiona 42:49

So power is what? It stops a fall, it helps you get out of a chair, it saves a hip after a fall. And walking does not preserve the system. So walking alone is not good enough.

Ben 42:59

Unfortunately, and we're getting to like bone density, osteoporosis.

Fiona 43:04

Which we're doing right now.

Ben 43:05

Oh, that's on the next one. Oh, so we linked it. I linked it in with the woman's health part. Remember we mentioned menopause very briefly. Linked it in. Linked it in.

Fiona 43:12

So osteopenia and osteoporosis is two very different things.

Ben 43:17

No, no, that doesn't say that for you. No, it's they're not two very different things. Well, they're not already.

Fiona 43:24

There's a difference between the two of them then. There is a difference between the two of them. Of course, yes, yes, osteopenia is low but low bone density, which is a warning sign of osteoporosis.

Ben 43:34

Which can then accelerate too.

Fiona 43:35

Osteoporosis.

Ben 43:36

Yes, and with osteoporosis, most people won't know they've got osteoporosis until they break something. Yes. Yeah. On average. Again fracture or whatever. Yes, on average.

Fiona 43:46

Yeah. Well you well, doctors aren't doing bone density tests left, right, and centre, are they? They only do it after a fracture or a recurrence.

Ben 43:53

Right, exactly, yes.

Fiona 43:54

Or the bone's not healing properly.

Ben 43:55

Bone density, I I believe it's is it late twenties? You reach your peak bone density in your in your late late 20s, mid to late 20s. And then again, like we've talked about with the muscle mass, the power, the strength.

Fiona 44:08

Declines.

Ben 44:09

After the age of 30, the whole pass is gone, it then starts to decline. I think only up until recently, I say recent, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago, the evidence wasn't there to suggest that you could actually strengthen bone density. And now the evidence has come out to say yes, you can. It was a case of bone density would just decrease after the age of 30, bit by bit.

Fiona 44:36

Well, can you strengthen it or preserve it?

Ben 44:40

Please. Yeah. And the best thing you could do was preserve it. Uh-huh. But no. In fact, you can actually strengthen it.

Fiona 44:47

How?

Ben 44:49

Mainly through resistance training. Uh what about even tabs? Sorry?

Fiona 44:54

Vit D tabs, subs, supplements.

Ben 44:57

Supplementing, yeah, that's fine. Yeah. But resistance training. Yeah, weight-bearing activities. Pushing yourself.

Fiona 45:04

From the pulse of life.

Ben 45:06

Through resistance training. Through strength training. You've got to, like we just said, with walking. Something like walking. Great. Walking, great. Great for your health. Great for your overall.

Fiona 45:14

For your cardiovascular system.

Ben 45:16

Exactly. Lovely. Brilliant. Really good for you. But it's not going to strengthen your bones.

Fiona 45:23

Or your muscles.

Ben 45:24

We need to get some power in there. We need to get some strength stuff in there.

Fiona 45:31

What about walking uphill and downhill?

Ben 45:35

Fine.

Fiona 45:36

Would that help with muscle lower limb?

Ben 45:40

It's just good for your health overall. Again, we're not, it's not good.

Fiona 45:44

I'm just thinking they're going uphill like a steep one, not a small one, because obviously it's it's balanced.

Ben 45:48

No, it's i in terms of bone density. In terms of helping with. It's not a bad thing.

Fiona 45:56

But we still need more.

Ben 45:58

If you can do it to a point where it's actually challenging the muscle enough.

Fiona 46:02

Oh, it's even better for the cardiovascular, isn't it? Fine, yeah.

Ben 46:05

And yeah, yeah, you should if it's producing a bit of a burn through the legs, the muscles are doing something. They're working. It's probably still not enough, like.

Fiona 46:14

Going up steps.

Ben 46:16

Yes, what are you trying to get out of the steps? I don't know. I'm just thinking you're saying all this stuff.

Fiona 46:19

I'm just thinking I'm thinking when I get the burn.

Ben 46:23

Uh-huh.

Fiona 46:23

So if I'm going up loads of steps, like do you know those steps down at the hill there? And you come up, you get the burn by like literally halfway there. Well, yeah, halfway there. Yes. A little bit after. But you get the burn then. So I'm just like, is that helping with the muscle? Because it's it's engaging the muscle.

Ben 46:36

It's not, it's not not helping, but it's not enough.

Fiona 46:38

It's not enough. It's not. Is it enough? No, it's not enough. You need to do more. Okay, thank you, Ben.

Ben 46:44

But for someone who's just starting.

Fiona 46:47

Good place to start.

Ben 46:48

Absolutely, yeah. Yes. But for most people, not enough.

Fiona 46:52

Okay. So you kind of said all about osteoporosis there, so do we need to go into that?

Ben 46:58

Did I?

Fiona 46:58

What do you said about that?

Ben 46:59

Well, you can briefly mention it just as a snippet.

Fiona 47:02

So osteoporosis, in comparison to osteopenia, is a diagnosed bone disease. So obviously it's then causing increased fracture risks. Um, but it is still able to respond to resistance training. Bone adapts to load at any age. That's interesting, isn't it? Any age.

Ben 47:23

You can get stronger. There's there's been studies, I might include some if I can be asked, about 95-year-olds getting stronger.

Fiona 47:30

So if there's no load, the bone degrades. That's quite good. So the big M. Menopause.

Ben 47:44

Thank you. Sounds great. Please continue.

Fiona 47:47

Okay. So we have estrogen loss when we're going through menopause, which accelerates bone loss, but it does not automatically cause muscle loss. The bigger issue is reduced loading. We have a cultural message to slow down. I think that's because of fatigue, though, as well, because you do have this level of fatigue, don't you? So you're encouraged to rest more.

Ben 48:09

Yeah, you meant you mentioned estrogen, didn't you? Yeah. Yes, yes, that's right. Yes. So the drop in estrogen. Yeah. Yes.

Fiona 48:16

Um, so then there's a loss of confidence around strength. And menopause is not the primary driver of muscle loss, it activity levels and loading matter, loading matter far more. Okay.

Ben 48:30

Right, menopause in general, right. So yeah, so yeah, the estrogen drop in that, not ideal.

Fiona 48:37

Routine model? Yes, routine money.

Ben 48:39

And then that would lead to increased bone density. Sorry, decrease in bone density.

Fiona 48:44

Yes. But then you're probably gonna you're encouraged to move not move less, but you're encouraged to take it easier, which then causes people to move less.

Ben 48:51

Yeah, and with age as well.

Fiona 48:52

So then you have fatigue.

Ben 48:54

And the age, yes. So on average, between what, 46 and 54? Yeah, well it depends, isn't it?

Fiona 48:59

Some people are late, late tursies, some people, but yeah, on average.

Ben 49:02

We've we've reached that to that 50 mark, haven't we, again? So 50. Yeah, aches and pains, start to add up. What's your routine like? Are you doing any form of strength training? Resistance training, are you doing anything like that?

Fiona 49:15

No.

Ben 49:15

Are you walking? What what are you doing for your health? How's your nutrition? How stressed are you? What's happening? Oh, menopause. On top of that. Oh, what you need to do is you need to start doing resistance training. You need to start lifting heavy things. Oh. But I'm not sleeping. I'm overweight. I'm really stressed. Hot flashes. Night sweats. My mood's all over the place. Okay, yeah, it sounds terrible. Yeah, you need to start doing resistance training. You need to start doing you need to start lifting heavy weights at least twice a week, ideally. Is that alright?

Fiona 49:55

No.

Ben 49:55

And you need to be more mindful of your your diet and nutrition. Yeah, you need to start getting more protein in. What about your fibre? Fibre's quite low. Increase that. Come on. No, but I'm already in pain. I already feel terrible. I've heard that lifting weights just is painful. And excise, I I've never been able to find a form that I could stomach ever.

Fiona 50:15

Imagine how you said this to me before and it still sticks. This is how you feel now. If you don't do anything, how will you feel in 10 years' time?

Ben 50:22

Well, it's across the board, isn't it? That's again, hall pass.

Fiona 50:25

Yeah.

Ben 50:25

Teens, 20s, yay. 30. Oh boy. Oh dear. Okay. Right.

Fiona 50:31

Born density, what's the mass?

Ben 50:33

Yeah, I'm recovering less. I just feel a bit, ugh, you know, all these all these random actes of pains. Like, what why is my lower back hurting? I didn't do anything. What's going on? I didn't go to the gym. I feel hung over all the time. Because my I I slept ten minutes less than the other night. Now I just feel hung over all day. My bedtime is is 10 o'clock. I didn't get to bed until half ten.

Fiona 50:57

I feel like death. Ruin your day when that happens.

Ben 51:00

Crazy. So yeah, menopause, tough. Tough time. With all those symptoms. Dropping estrogen. Getting people to then start well menopause and age. Starting anything after the age of 50 for everyone. Is it's not ideal, is it? It's like anything. The earlier you start the better. The best time to start something was ten years ago. The second best time is today.

Fiona 51:32

I like that. Maybe five years ago, so not as harsh.

Ben 51:38

Probably ten, because if you're fifty.

Fiona 51:39

Yeah, but just just oh well yeah.

Ben 51:41

At least at least ten, if not twenty.

Fiona 51:43

But at least you're starting now.

Ben 51:44

Right. Second best time is today.

Fiona 51:46

Exactly.

Ben 51:47

Not ten years from now.

Fiona 51:48

What about tomorrow?

Ben 51:50

No, I'd say today.

Fiona 51:51

Okay. Just check.

Ben 51:53

Start today.

Fiona 51:53

Because tomorrow's Monday. It's a new day.

Ben 51:55

Right, we need to move on.

Fiona 51:57

So you mentioned about sarcopenic obesity already.

Ben 52:00

That's just the top half, yeah. Just the top half, very briefly.

Fiona 52:03

So this is when some individuals have a normal or high body wish. They appear muscular, but they have poor muscle function.

Ben 52:09

That's fine. That's enough, isn't it?

Fiona 52:11

Yep.

Ben 52:12

Grip strength, that might be worth briefly touching upon. So grip strength is inversely associated with all cause mortality. The thing with grip strength is that people will. The thing with grip strength is there seems to be this thing with grip strength where if your grip is quite good, then that's a good sign that you're you're in good nick. If your grip strength is decent, then you're that you're alright. That probably means that you're that you are you're quite strong and not to worry too much. It's not really the not really the case. It's just it's just quite an easy thing to measure grip strength. Well, how do they measure grip?

Fiona 52:50

I think it's a dynamom.

Ben 52:53

Dynamometer.

Fiona 52:54

Squeeze a hand.

Ben 52:55

Yes, and the thing. Whatever that's what what's this called? No idea. Grip dynamometer.

Fiona 53:00

It's not used. I've never seen it, never heard of it.

Ben 53:02

That they use one of these. So that's quite an easy thing to do, isn't it? So an old person could be sat in a chair. Oh just grip this, right? As hard as you can. Oh, that's not a bad score. Okay.

Fiona 53:13

All right.

Ben 53:14

Instead of asking that older person, oh, how quick can you sit up and down? Can you get off that chair without using the sides, without using your arms? Oh dear. Okay, no, no, they can't. Oh right, okay. But your grip strength's pretty good.

Fiona 53:27

I think they'll say that grip, if you have if you have better grip strength, though, the easier it would be to function. Because obviously, if you had no grip strength and you needed a walking stick or a mobility aid or something like that, and you have no grip strength, then you can't use that mobility aid, so therefore your mobility is further impacted.

Ben 53:50

Yeah, it's not a bad thing to have have good grip strength, but unfortunately, I think there's a little bit of a end all and be all. Yes, there's a little bit of a uh over-reliance on data from grip strength. Yeah. And that if you've got good grip strength, you're in a good spot.

Fiona 54:05

And you could have worked as God knows what for many, many years and muscle muscle memory, stuff like that as well. And it's the size of it's it's all very because I've got very small hands. My grip strength is terrible.

Ben 54:16

Yes, but you've got big hands.

Fiona 54:20

You've got big hands, you know. Of course, grip strength, great.

Ben 54:24

You want to be able to open jars.

Fiona 54:26

Yeah. Yeah. They're hard.

Ben 54:28

Are you are you understanding what I'm trying to say though about grip strength? Is that there's just that there is just there seems to be a almost a bit of an over-reliance on oh well, but they've got a good grip strength, so that's a good sign.

Fiona 54:37

Yeah, but it is silly as well, because at the end of the day, your grip strength is always going to be a bit stronger on one side of your body, anyways.

Ben 54:44

Yes. So it's yeah, so I mean ultimately it's about grip strength, doesn't correlate with grip strength doesn't mean if you've got a good grip strength, doesn't mean that your that your quality of life is is good or you'll have a a longer life because you've got a good grip.

Fiona 54:59

Yeah. It might be easier, your quality of life may become easier because you have that grip to be able to use things to enable you to mobilize a little bit better, or to be able to use a mobility scooter or whatever, but it it's not something that's gonna fully reverse.

Ben 55:14

If you go to a care home and ask 20 people, ten of them might have pretty good grip strength. Yeah. But that 10 might also not be able to get off their chair unassisted.

Fiona 55:23

Like if you have, if you've got just say getting off, getting on and off the toilet, if you've got grip strength, then you might be able to use something to pull yourself up to help you.

Ben 55:32

Yes, no, I know, but the point is you need strength, don't you? Yes, strength. Getting off the toilet, your grip, who cares about your grip strength? You need you need the str you need the upper body strength to get off the toilet, not not just grip, not not gripping the the rails.

Fiona 55:45

Yeah.

Ben 55:45

Oh god, my grip. Oh god, that's that's tough.

Fiona 55:48

Oh, I've got yeah, you need a strength to pull up.

Ben 55:50

I've got no muscle mass or strength in my upper body.

Fiona 55:53

Yeah. Oh yeah.

Ben 55:54

My arms and my chest, my shoulders, and my back. So but grip strength, I can I can open a jar. Just can't haven't got the strength to get off the toilet there. Hmm. Okay.

Fiona 56:07

So grip strength itself doesn't extend life. That's what I full body strength does.

Ben 56:13

Right, again, going back to that, a full body workout. I don't think we mentioned full body. I say I keep saying resistance training and strength training, getting stronger. Yeah. We'll get into it a bit later, maybe with the myths and stuff like that, where you need to you need to train. God careful, Fiona. You need to train. Is that that's not on camera, is it?

Fiona 56:29

What? My penguin, no.

Ben 56:31

You need to train five days a week. No, no, we'll we'll we'll get into that in a second, but no, no, let's just get into it now. I keep saying that. I keep saying it. In terms of the benefits of training, say once a week, a full body session, full body strength-based session once a week, just tremendous benefits. Two times a week, even better.

Fiona 56:53

Well, but seven days a week.

Ben 56:55

Ridiculous for everyone. Yes. Let alone if you're 50 and over. And this is just made up, but you're getting say 70% of the benefits of just doing that one full-body strength-based session a week.

Fiona 57:08

And you probably have more energy and you're probably getting more out of it than doing it five times per week.

Ben 57:13

Twice a week, even accurate. Twice a week, 80%. Now that those percentages are just made up, but I mean they're not far off, I imagine. Based on the research, based on the studies, based on just how you feel.

Fiona 57:24

But if you Sorry. It's easier to stomach doing two days than it is five days.

Ben 57:31

Of course. So you'd be more encouraged to But it's another reason why people don't do it, do they?

Fiona 57:35

Yeah, yeah.

Ben 57:36

Across the board, regardless of age. Oh, I've heard to get results and to feel better, etc., you need to go five days a week. I don't have the time. So I'm not doing that. No, what about once a week? Oh, once a week, that's not enough, though, is it? No, just try once a week. Yeah, it's pointless though. What's what's the point? It's five days a week or nothing, isn't it? No, no, once a week for a body, that's a good start. Doesn't seem enough though. Well, what can you commit to then? Well, I can try five. Okay, can you do five though? Well January, I'll give it I'll give it a go. Near you near me. But what about long term? Five will you better do five sessions a week for the rest of the year? Maybe. You won't, will you?

Fiona 58:21

Stop lying to yourself.

Ben 58:22

How's that microphone, Fiona?

Fiona 58:23

It's it's uh doing all sorts of weird.

Ben 58:26

Well, there's always something though, isn't there? But so so for the next one, so the next one, we'll just make sure that you just have the microphone just on properly.

Fiona 58:32

It's on then. It's just it's it's it's just yeah, it wouldn't be, yeah.

Ben 58:36

Other shows that uh do podcasts, other podcasts. I don't see their microphone just wobbling all over the world.

Fiona 58:41

Well, this isn't their podcast, is it?

Ben 58:43

No, this is our this is our just yeah makeshift piece of crap, isn't it? Yeah. Right there's always something, isn't it? There's always there's always room for improvement. There's gotta be, isn't it? It's gotta be gotta be room for improvement.

Fiona 58:56

I'm starving. I don't know how much.

Ben 58:59

Jesus Christ, well, buckle in too. Yeah, hurry up, Ben. Buckle in. Did you eat before we started?

Fiona 59:04

I had me wheat a picks.

Ben 59:06

Okay.

Fiona 59:06

I'm starving.

Ben 59:07

Right, I've not eaten anything.

Fiona 59:09

How are you functioning? So just I'm gonna start having cognitive decline.

Ben 59:13

Right, no, just soldier on. I am a soldier and on. Soldier on. You're sharper. Had a drink, had a coffee, keeps you sharp. You have a big breakfast, then you do this, slump. Stay sharp.

Fiona 59:27

I'm like in.

Ben 59:29

Right, where were we? Yes, so the benefits, yeah. The 80-20 rule. Oh, we're bouncing all over the place. Where are we now? The 80-20 when it comes to the.

Fiona 59:36

Oh, it comes to exercise. No.

Ben 59:39

The 80 20 principle. 80% of the results come from 20% of the effort. So that very much sits with the can you commit to, regardless of age, one full body strength-based session a week. That's a good place to start.

Fiona 59:59

Yes.

Ben 1:00:00

Two sessions a week? Even better.

Fiona 1:00:05

Well if we did three sessions. Yeah.

Ben 1:00:08

Fine. But there is that diminishing return.

Fiona 1:00:11

Because you're not going to be putting as much effort in. Yeah, recover. Yeah, exactly. Recovery. Especially when you're older, as well.

Ben 1:00:17

How's your nutrition? How are you sleeping? Aches and pains. Work around injuries. Yes?

Fiona 1:00:27

Yes.

Ben 1:00:28

Okay. Okay. So that links into Ben, have you heard of the official guidelines? Start again, Fiona. Focus.

Fiona 1:00:33

So exercise recommendations. Ben. We have official guidelines. Have you heard of these? Are you familiar with these?

Ben 1:00:41

Yes, I'm sure some people will be. Well there. The official guidelines of exercise.

Fiona 1:00:45

So this is per week, yes, just to clarify. This is per week. Okay.

Ben 1:00:49

Well, that'd be impressive, wouldn't it? That'd be very rough. Yeah, another reason why people wouldn't be doing it.

Fiona 1:00:53

150 minutes of moderate activity or 75 minutes of vigorous activity. Two full body resistance sessions per week.

Ben 1:01:07

Okay.

Fiona 1:01:08

So if you're going for your run, you must do two full body resistant exercises sessions as well per week.

Ben 1:01:18

No. Give or take. Not must. We've just that goes against what we just did.

Fiona 1:01:23

You know what I mean? You know what I mean? It would be more better than the five years.

Ben 1:01:26

Yes, or or I think you can then have 300 minutes of steady state.

Fiona 1:01:31

So like cardio.

Ben 1:01:33

So zone two. So zone two is that heart rate. I don't know, 60%, five to six on the RPE scale.

Fiona 1:01:40

It's gone hard. A brisk walk. Yes, there you go.

Ben 1:01:44

So you can you can probably still maintain a conversation, but it's the heart rate is getting up a little bit. You're in that zone two area. So 300 minutes of that per week. That's a good chunk.

Fiona 1:01:55

That's a lot of time.

Ben 1:01:56

Yeah. Good chunk.

Fiona 1:01:58

That's an awful lot of time of walking.

Ben 1:02:02

But the guidelines, yeah, the guidelines are the guidelines, aren't they?

Fiona 1:02:05

They're just guidelines.

Ben 1:02:07

But if you can walk as often as possible, and if you can then add in one full body resistance training session per week That's what we're saying, isn't it?

Fiona 1:02:19

Yes.

Ben 1:02:21

Even if you may cut down on the walking a little bit. If it means that you get in a full-body strength-based session per week, if you're already quite a keen walker, or you're running, great. I'm almost reluctant to say, well, you know, cut down on that. But if it means that you've got more energy to do some kind of strength-based session per week, if you need to reduce the moderate activity a little bit to get that in, then again, yes, it's essential that you do. Based on this discussion. Yeah, I'm just thinking about editing this episode. Oh, it's just a lot, isn't it? It's a lot to edit. Anything to say about that, Fiona?

Fiona 1:03:12

No, I think we covered it then.

Ben 1:03:13

Nothing else?

Fiona 1:03:14

No.

Ben 1:03:15

Most adults don't hit this. Most adults aren't getting anywhere near these number two.

Fiona 1:03:20

300 minutes. Absolutely.

Ben 1:03:21

Right, 150 minutes or 75 minutes of vigorous. You know, what's vigorous? Hit based training, that type of thing.

Fiona 1:03:27

Yeah, that's another session, is it? People don't have time.

Ben 1:03:31

Well, hit training is good in the sense that it's meant to be short and sharp. But you know, HIT training. Hit training for people over 50. If you enjoy it, fine, but it depends what you're doing during that session. It's quite hard on the old joints, hitch hit training if you're minimal rest, 30 minutes in and out.

Fiona 1:03:55

It's not just a 30-minute session though, is it? It's like when you go to the gym, you were complaining about it yesterday, you know, you had to drive, the thing, the shower, the whatever afterwards, the change enough. Yes, it takes time. But it takes time. So it's not just that. So if you're doing a nine to five job, going home, cooking dinner, then you're going back out, it's it's just a lot of time because then you need to have that time for yourself afterwards as well to do what you want to do, a hobby, read, whatever. So it's it's not just it's not just saying, Oh, 30 minutes of exercise, yes, you can put it in. But if you're going to somewhere to do it, it might be a 20-minute drive, it might be a five-minute five-minute walk. You don't know. It's still taking that time, and you have to shower afterwards, you have to do this, you have to do that.

Ben 1:04:38

Probably have to eat afterwards, and a lot of people don't enjoy it.

Fiona 1:04:42

Yeah.

Ben 1:04:43

They know it's good for their health, but they don't really enjoy it.

Fiona 1:04:46

And then introduce a 45-minute resistance session on top of that. It's like I can get why people don't do that.

Ben 1:04:53

Oh, if that's what you're talking about. I thought you were just adding that in as well.

Fiona 1:04:56

No, no, no. I mean like if you're doing because if you're doing a hit session, the likelihood is you're gonna be doing it at home because it's hard to keep momentum up for a f a hit session, isn't it? If you like hit, well, yeah.

Ben 1:05:05

If you like hit, yeah, but yeah, I just think it's different types of hit training, but I I'm always reluctant to not tell people to do some form of exercise. Well, you know, maybe but strength training, oh my god, if it means you getting rid of a hit session or not doing HIT, not bouncing around your living room, following Wixie on YouTube or going to the gym to do a class that's hit-based, which is tough, but lighter weights, more endurance-based, a bit of cardio. If it means giving that up to then do a dedicated strength based session once a week, then yes, give it up.

Fiona 1:05:55

So strength training what matters. So resistance training is, as Ben just said, non-negotiable.

Ben 1:06:05

Can you read out the meta-analysis bit for we move? I don't want to read meta. But that's just it's just that's just a good scientific summary, I feel, of what we've talked about. It's it's quite science heavy. It's science heavy, but that that will pretty much summarise most of what we've talked about.

Fiona 1:06:22

What's an RCT? Random control tests.

Ben 1:06:25

A randomized control trial.

Fiona 1:06:27

Trial, okay. Across meta-analysis and RCTs, resistance training, robustly improved strength, function, balance, some inflammatory markers, and aspects of mental health in older and clinical populations.

Ben 1:06:42

Wow. Nice.

Fiona 1:06:44

Read that quite well, didn't I?

Ben 1:06:45

That's good to that's good to hear, yeah. Yeah.

Fiona 1:06:46

Keep going, please. I'm gonna lose it now. Moderate intensity. See? Moderate intensity performed about twice weekly with attention to total volume and inclusion of task-related movements, such as pulling for grip, dynamic balance balance tests, appear both effective and practical.

Ben 1:07:09

Well, there you go.

Fiona 1:07:10

There you go.

Ben 1:07:10

Aren't you glad I'm made you read that? Yep, I am that pretty much summarizes everything what we've been talking about. And it sounds very smart, sounds very fancy, doesn't it? Yeah. Jesus. Yeah, you excited? Lovely. Okay. Well, that's I think we're pretty much there's so much more, but at least let's all get carried away.

Fiona 1:07:31

We spoke quite a bit because you know, you said walking's not alone. You know. So the key principles of strength training, so why is it so good? Because it targets major muscle groups. So if you're doing that two days per week and doing compound movements where possible, it will help with those muscle groups. And you're challenging three to five sets per muscles per group or something like that.

Ben 1:07:59

Okay, that's that's just I lost it. That's it. It sounds so poor.

Fiona 1:08:04

I lost it. It sounds poor.

Ben 1:08:05

But you're you're going off the notes. You you are a robot that reads the notes. So it's it's my fault, isn't it?

Fiona 1:08:10

Yep.

Ben 1:08:11

It's my fault when there's a lot of notes, I have to condense it down slightly because it's it just becomes too much because we're trying to avoid you starting to read out notes and me going, mm-hmm that's very interesting.

Fiona 1:08:21

So strength is for independence, function, and long it longity. Longevity.

Ben 1:08:28

Longevity.

Fiona 1:08:29

Longevity. Oh, you're so clever. So tell me a little bit about pro about nutrition then.

Ben 1:08:35

You're alright, you need a snack, do you?

Fiona 1:08:38

I told you my cognitive function would be glad.

Ben 1:08:40

No, no, no, it keeps you sharp, Fiona.

Fiona 1:08:42

No, it doesn't being hungry keeps you sharp. Not me. All I can do is have a sip of your drink. Okay.

Ben 1:08:47

Have a sip of your drink. Yeah, strength training. So by all means, by all means, if someone needs, if someone watches this, listens to it, probably you'll probably listen to it. And they need a a free program, fine. I always see coaches just I've got a I've got a free four-week program on Google Sheets. It's like, oh god. Who's following that? Some people must do because they seem like they're doing alright. It's a it's a call to action. So I imagine people are downloading it, people are following it.

Fiona 1:09:20

CT.

Ben 1:09:21

But yes. But yeah, working with older adults, I just know for a fact that 99.9% of them just wouldn't. Oh, here's a Google Sheets program. Enjoy. Go and take that to the gym and follow it.

Fiona 1:09:37

No, I wouldn't even be able to do that.

Ben 1:09:40

Right. But by all means, if you want to, if you want a program and I I will deliver it to you in some some easy form, or I just put you on the app. I don't know, whatever we do, just reach out.

Fiona 1:09:50

Reach out, have a check.

Ben 1:09:51

Reach out and I will get it to you. As simple as possible.

Fiona 1:09:55

Can I reach out to you later?

Ben 1:09:56

Well, that's why I have the app. The app is is a massive pain. But in terms of functionality, in terms of having everything in one place, being able to have a program on there which you then just press start and just tick off the exercises, it's not bad. It's pretty accessible for tech phobes, for maybe older people. It just removes one extra barrier from starting. So don't worry about we're not gonna we're not gonna start talking about what exercise you should do, what you shouldn't do, compound lifts, they're good because they're a multi-joint exercise and goblet squats. They target multiple joints at the same time.

Fiona 1:10:37

Not neck squats.

Ben 1:10:40

Yeah, squat. Barbell squat again. Compound lift, a multi-joint exercise. But for most people, no.

Fiona 1:10:50

No.

Ben 1:10:51

Older people, people have got injuries, niggles, eggs. Best to build up to that.

Fiona 1:10:57

Yes.

Ben 1:10:58

So by all means, if you need something, just reach out. Let me know. Let me know what you're looking for in particular. Rather than me just start offering some CTA, some lead magnets, like, oh look at this programme I've got. No one's interested. You tell me what you want.

Fiona 1:11:12

And then I'll help. Well, he'll help. I won't.

Ben 1:11:15

Yeah, yeah. I won't. You gonna help?

Fiona 1:11:17

Absolutely no. I do bloody enough.

Ben 1:11:21

Okay, nutrition. Anything to talk about nutrition? We've talked about nutrition already.

Fiona 1:11:26

Eat your protein.

Ben 1:11:27

Yeah. Older adults.

Fiona 1:11:29

That's it.

Ben 1:11:29

No, older adults over the age of 50, whatever, whatever are classing as older adults. Yeah. Nutrition becomes important. It's always important, but. Yes. Yes, okay. Should we talk about it then quickly? Hydration's gonna be. So protein.

Fiona 1:11:47

How many grams do you need?

Ben 1:11:50

What measure do you want? I always hate saying this because it's just like the problem is I see this every day, don't I? I see the same thing.

Fiona 1:11:57

How many eggs and how many chicken fillers should we eat?

Ben 1:11:59

Oh no, I see the same thing though. Like you m eat one gram, it's just like, oh, I was just it's so boring. But but if people are stumbling upon this and they haven't seen it before, that's what I forget. People haven't seen it every day.

Fiona 1:12:10

Just tell me how many eggs and how many chicken fillers in each other.

Ben 1:12:13

Forget about that. Forget about that.

Fiona 1:12:14

Well, that's how I want it measured.

Ben 1:12:18

Centimetre of height. So you're what 150 something?

Fiona 1:12:22

153 centimetres.

Ben 1:12:23

Okay.

Fiona 1:12:24

Right. Give or take.

Ben 1:12:25

So one gram per centimetre of height of protein.

Fiona 1:12:28

So should we have an 153 grams of protein?

Ben 1:12:30

So that sounds a lot. So I would say whatever, whatever metric you use, if you use that, if you use the one gram per pound of body weight, or some people will do target body weight, because if they're trying to say lose 30 pounds, if that's their target, you do one gram per pound of target body weight. So if you're currently 200 pounds and you want to lose weight and get down to 180, that should be your target. Right. So not not your current body weight. So not me going, oh yeah, so one pound, one gram of protein per pound of body weight. Oh, I'm 200 pounds. Oh, that's that's quite a lot. But I want to get down to 180. Oh, okay. So start start at 180 because that's your target body weight.

Fiona 1:13:11

So if I'm 100 kg 100 pounds, I have to have 100 grams of protein.

Ben 1:13:16

You don't have to.

Fiona 1:13:17

No, that's the recommended though. Give or take.

Ben 1:13:19

There's lots of recommendations. There's also there's also that 1.6.

Fiona 1:13:23

So I could have that in my dinner because a chicken fillet is.

Ben 1:13:28

What? A chicken fillet is what, Fiona? Well What's a chicken filler?

Fiona 1:13:34

Well, it depends. You can buy a packet of chicken fillets 500 grams. So you can have 100 grams easily of chicken, can you not?

Ben 1:13:44

What are you trying to say? I don't know. No, it's interesting. What are you trying to say? So are you trying to say 100 grams of chicken is a hundred grams of protein?

Fiona 1:13:52

Oh no, it's not, is it? Oh that's that's where I'm going wrong.

Ben 1:13:56

It's a shame, isn't it? It's a shame because you you've been on some of these podcasts.

Fiona 1:13:59

That's where I'm going wrong. That's why I was so confused. I couldn't concentrate on what you're saying because I couldn't work it out. Okay. Is it because you're hungry, is it? It's because I have a decline in cognitive function.

Ben 1:14:11

Other other measurements. 1.6 to 2.5.

Fiona 1:14:17

Oh, Fiona, okay. Okay, sorry.

Ben 1:14:19

What's going on? We've got to get this sorted out though. Yeah. This talking over each other.

Fiona 1:14:23

Oh, sues you.

Ben 1:14:24

No, it's badly. Is it because we're not looking at each other or look at you?

Fiona 1:14:28

Hungry.

Ben 1:14:28

Oh, he's faceable. He's faceable. He's not having it. He's disgusting.

Fiona 1:14:32

He's just like, shut up, you two.

Ben 1:14:34

Sorry, a hundred grams of chicken breast is a hundred grams of protein.

Fiona 1:14:37

It's not though. It's not. That is my error. Can you cut that out, please? Reasonable. Makes me look stupid.

Ben 1:14:43

No, no, that's that's what that's what we get people in because other people will go, oh that's what I thought as well. That's fine. It's not. Of course. That's fine. That's fine. Why would you care about how much protein is is in an average sized chicken breast?

Fiona 1:14:54

I can't believe I said that now. I'm embarrassed for myself.

Ben 1:14:57

Well, you should be embarrassed because you've done a few of these now.

Fiona 1:14:59

Yes, I have been.

Ben 1:15:00

For the average person, don't be embarrassed. Because why would you care? You're starting your journey. This is brand new information to you, maybe.

Fiona 1:15:08

Right.

Ben 1:15:09

For you, no.

Fiona 1:15:11

Right. Good job of having salmon tonight then.

Ben 1:15:14

So 1.6. Oh my god.

Fiona 1:15:17

1.6, yes.

Ben 1:15:19

Let me let me get this out. So we can move on. 1.6 to 2.2 grams of protein per kg. That's another way of measuring it.

Fiona 1:15:33

Right.

Ben 1:15:33

But my point is whatever measurement you use to start looking at increasing your protein, or how much protein should I should I eat? Just half it. Always half it. And start there.

Fiona 1:15:49

To increase.

Ben 1:15:51

To start being conscious of your protein, how much you're eating. For a lot of people, protein is just they just don't like high protein foods.

Fiona 1:15:58

It's hard, it's expensive as well, isn't it? When you think about it.

Ben 1:16:01

It can be, it can be. But in terms of macronutrients, carbs, fats, protein, alcohol, protein, bottom of the list. Some people might just naturally have a reasonably good amount of protein in their diet. And it might just be a case of just looking at the source of protein. But it depends on what their goals are. For older people, it's just trying to find ways, maybe, to get as much protein into their diet as possible. And that's that can be difficult as well because they might have a reducing appetite. Protein is quite satiating. Fibre. Fibre's great. Fiber and protein. In many ways, should go hand in hand. Everyone bangs on back protein. Oh, protein this, protein that. Oh, it's so important. You must have pick your measurement. One gram per pound, blah, blah, blah, blah. Everyone's obsessed with protein. Everything, everything now you can buy in a high protein form, can't you?

Fiona 1:16:57

Yeah.

Ben 1:16:57

To a degree. It's overwhelming. Fibre as well. What about fibre? Fibre's really important. But again, when it comes back to being older, elderly, whatever we're framing them, whatever we're naming them. Fibre is quite satiating. Protein is satiating. So if someone is older and they are doing some form of resistance training, hopefully, and they're being more conscious of their nutrition, they might even be trying to put on some weight. They might be quite frail. They're trying to bump their calories up. My nan, for example, she's she's quite frail. Again, she's 86. But in terms of her diet, it's poor. You know it's poor.

Fiona 1:17:41

Yeah.

Ben 1:17:42

I know it's not very good. That protein is low. But she comes here, scoffs. Really shoves it in. So the appetite's still there, isn't it? She can eat.

Fiona 1:17:54

Yeah, but then you don't know what she's doing before that. She might not have breakfast or whatever.

Ben 1:17:58

No, but I mean she can still eat. Yeah. Like she does, she's not leaving food on the plate, is she? She is shoving it in.

Fiona 1:18:03

No, she goes for it.

Ben 1:18:04

So the appetite is still there, which is great. That's good to see. But I know her diet day to day is probably quite poor. Lack of protein, lack of fibre. And she's active, she's walking, like we said. So not ideal. If you need to supplement with vitamin D, probably worth doing. It's cheap. If you're not getting outside enough. And even when you are, if it's overcast, rainy.

Fiona 1:18:31

If you live in the UK, just take some vitamin D.

Ben 1:18:33

Just supplement, yeah. Just just supplement. Just uh yeah. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. Pick one. Take a bit D tab.

Fiona 1:18:42

Have you taken yours today?

Ben 1:18:43

I've not had breakfast yet.

Fiona 1:18:44

Alright.

Ben 1:18:45

But I will.

Fiona 1:18:45

Okay.

Ben 1:18:46

Fish oils, there's yeah. Calcium.

Fiona 1:18:53

Querotine.

Ben 1:18:56

How's that microphone? It's absolutely fine. Oh, I don't think it is. I don't think it is.

Fiona 1:19:00

Querotine?

Ben 1:19:02

So creatine. Fish oils, potentially. Without starting to tell people that they need to start taking this stuff, because they don't. Not really. It it's a nice to have once you've got other things in place. Once you've got the one at least one full-body strength-based session per week. Once you've maybe looked at ways if you need to, to get some more protein in your diet. Bump your fire up a little bit. Once you've got those bedrocks, the main hitters, exercise, number one. Jesus Christ, you're having such a blowout of that microphone. It's shocking to see.

Fiona 1:19:40

It's because it's the balance of it, then. It's not my fault.

Ben 1:19:44

Creatine. Fish oils.

Fiona 1:19:46

What about them? Am I reading out? Yeah, you can do. Why not? Right, creatine is one of the most creatine. Ceratine. Creatine. Creatine. Queratine.

Ben 1:20:00

You are a crein, yeah. Correct. God, that microphone is you yeah, you you are almost swallowing it. No in between, is there? It's either it's either it's either next to the TV all the way over there. Out of shot, it's so far away from your mouth. Or it's it's in your gob. No in between, is there?

Fiona 1:20:15

Right, queritine.

Ben 1:20:16

I guess that's the show, isn't it? There's just never there's never an in-between. It's everything or nothing with this show. I would say you need to probably move it away a little bit because it's your face is covered.

Fiona 1:20:27

Ben, I can. I don't think that nose can Right, queritine querotine Say it again before we.

Ben 1:20:34

No, I'm not saying it again. I'm not saying it again. How many times have we said it before on this show?

Fiona 1:20:38

Querotine is one of the most studied supplements in older adults. Benefits observed in strength, power, lean mass, and functional performance. It appears safe in healthy older adults. It works best alongside resistance.

Ben 1:20:53

Oh yes. Yes, it does.

Fiona 1:20:55

Effective size, effect size is modest but meaningful. Take your hand from your mouth, maybe. Querotine supports training, it does not replace it.

Ben 1:21:08

That sounds fine. Thank you. Sorry, my eye. It's annoying.

Fiona 1:21:11

Fish oils.

Ben 1:21:12

On camera.

Fiona 1:21:13

So some evidence suggests amigo trees may support muscle protein synthesis, reduce inflammation, but evidence is mixed. Potential benefit is adjunctive, not primary. Fish oils do not compensate for low protein intake and lack of resistance training.

Ben 1:21:34

Might be good to have. Again. Yeah, do we need to what hydration is?

Fiona 1:21:37

Yes, it's so important.

Ben 1:21:38

Okay.

Fiona 1:21:39

Hydration. Thirst sent stirst stri The mouth the owner. Thirst sensation, often blunted with age-reduced adrenal function, so kidney function. Dehydration risks increase due to reduced thirst, medications, fear of needing the toilet. Dehydration can reduce performance, increase fall risk, and affect cognition. So the hierarchy, the hierarchy remains resistance training, with adequate protein, overall energy intake, movement, and supplementation, which is optimal.

Ben 1:22:19

That was one to five, was it, Fiona? That was one to five.

Fiona 1:22:24

Okay.

Ben 1:22:25

Oh boy. Right, okay. So just I think finishing off with just some myths then very quickly.

Fiona 1:22:30

Well we've done them, haven't we? We've done some of them.

Ben 1:22:32

Well, yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, we have. We just we could just finish off, expand upon them, and that that's that.

Fiona 1:22:37

One walking is enough. We spoke about that earlier. It's beneficial, it helps to improve cardiovascular health, mood, and general movement.

Ben 1:22:47

Sounds good.

Fiona 1:22:48

But it does not sufficiently load muscle, does not preserve type 2 fibers, and does not meaningfully slow down dynopenia. We know this because endurant athletes still lose type 2 fibers with age. Power and rapid force decline despite high activity levels. Walking is a baseline, not a solution. It keeps you moving, but strength training keeps you independent. Happy with that?

Ben 1:23:23

That's okay, yeah. Yeah, we're just we're just doing a little bit probably too much reading out, aren't we? Yes, I suppose.

Fiona 1:23:28

Yes. So we've already covered you need to train five days per week.

Ben 1:23:33

Yes. We've talked about the 80-20 thing.

Fiona 1:23:36

Yes, we don't need to talk about that again. Muscle loss is inevitable. Uh where was I? Muscle loss is inevitable. Muscle loss is use-dependent, not age-dependent. So, yes, Ben agrees. There is biological aging.

Ben 1:23:57

No, you're right. What was hang on, let's let's just let's just take a moment because yeah.

Fiona 1:24:02

I'm reading too much. It's I don't want to read.

Ben 1:24:04

Okay, but we I think we've got the balance, haven't we, this episode? For the most part.

Fiona 1:24:06

Yes, I think we have Ben yet.

Ben 1:24:08

Where you've got you to read a little bit and then that's that. Yeah. Okay. You shouldn't have the willpower, have you? Like, because you're just you're obviously just so hungry, aren't you? You're just so hungry. You just you have to. I just can't focus on the drive to I can't focus on anything else.

Fiona 1:24:23

That's the problem. I lose complete focus. Hunger is very different in pregnancy, just let you know. Very different. You've cut this out, obviously.

Ben 1:24:33

You'll find out eventually.

Fiona 1:24:34

No, let's see as I grow. Er right, what was I done? How about you tell me the missing?

Ben 1:24:42

Right, okay, let me just run through them, Fiona, without this without derailing the episode, because you've gone.

Fiona 1:24:47

I've gone.

Ben 1:24:47

You just get that microphone fucking sorted. You just get that sorted. No, no. Yeah. You just get that sorted. Listen to you drone on through these myths because you're too hungry. You can't function. Sad. Oh god, we'll just get a snack then.

Fiona 1:25:02

No.

Ben 1:25:03

Bring have snacks with you. That's a thing. I think I can't eat Ben on this. Not all the way through. But when energy dips, have a snack.

Fiona 1:25:13

Rush. Anyways, go on.

Ben 1:25:15

What was the famous thing? You're not you when you're hungry. Who was that? Was that Snickers? Pretty good. Good tagline that. You're not you when you're hungry.

Fiona 1:25:24

No, not me.

Ben 1:25:25

I think that did very well. Muscle loss is inevitable. I'm pretty sure we've answered this, have we not?

Fiona 1:25:34

I think we have.

Ben 1:25:34

Muscle loss is user-dependent, not age-dependent. Yes?

Fiona 1:25:39

Yes.

Ben 1:25:41

Resistance training. Even people in their eighties and nineties can get stronger. I think to summarise that, it's very much use it or lose it. It's a bit of a lame catchphrase, isn't it? But but for this, it's yeah. It fits.

Fiona 1:26:01

It does fit.

Ben 1:26:02

If you're not using your muscle, if there's no use for it, it's gonna start functioning. If you're not yes, if you're not challenging it, the power, strength, balance, all this stuff, if you're not doing anything with it, why would it stick around?

Fiona 1:26:18

Yeah. You have to engage it.

Ben 1:26:24

I think you've derailed this episode a little bit for you. That's a shame, isn't it? That's a shame.

Fiona 1:26:27

No, I haven't.

Ben 1:26:28

That's a shame. I'm starving as well, but gotta keep sharp.

Fiona 1:26:32

Yes, I am sharp. I'm keeping sharp. Next episode, let's have breakfast before.

Ben 1:26:35

But it's always nice, it's always nice to eat breakfast after though. I didn't know. That's a rule for life, isn't it? You know, do something hard. Oh, that's right, you've already eaten. I've had me. Do something hard. Do the hard get the thing hard, you know, eat the frog.

Fiona 1:26:46

What?

Ben 1:26:47

First thing, eat the frog, do the hard thing first, and then reward yourself. So for me, it's do this. Do the hard thing first.

Fiona 1:26:55

It doesn't seem like it's very hard.

Ben 1:26:56

Maybe I can eat breakfast, but yeah, I'm hungry. So next episode, have breakfast before.

Fiona 1:27:02

Maybe we should have breakfast.

Ben 1:27:03

But it's a little bit too early. That's the tough part. We start recording these just before I'm due to eat breakfast. Yes.

Fiona 1:27:10

So it's I did encourage you to eat.

Ben 1:27:12

Do I eat breakfast and delay starting to do this? Or do I just power through? And for the most part, I think it's fine. I can power through. Maybe maybe a monster or a coffee would be nice right now if I had my PA bring that in. We're not quite there yet.

Fiona 1:27:26

Or even a protein drink would have been too much.

Ben 1:27:28

Yeah, if someone could just bring me one in, that'd be quite nice right now. But hey, that's the future.

Fiona 1:27:33

That is the future. Bring a bell.

Ben 1:27:35

So for the first hour, maybe I'm I'm good. I feel good. The second hour, the second part, yeah.

Fiona 1:27:43

But I usually do I usually do drop off after about an hour and 20 minutes, don't I? Anyways, I get it.

Ben 1:27:48

Let's just find a way. How can we uh mitigate this? How can we in the future stop this from happening? What do you need?

Fiona 1:28:00

I don't know.

Ben 1:28:00

Less reading.

Fiona 1:28:02

Yeah. We discussed this off camera.

Ben 1:28:04

Lifting after sixty is dangerous.

Fiona 1:28:06

Oh, we spoke a little bit about this earlier, didn't we?

Ben 1:28:09

Resistance training has a very low injury rate. Most injuries are minor and self-limiting. Hospitals are full of people injured by frailty, not by squats or deadlifts. Strength training, once again, let's just go over it again. Improves balance, improves bone density, reduces fall risk.

Fiona 1:28:32

Oh, I like this one.

Ben 1:28:33

So lifting after 60 is not dangerous, no. Not inherently dangerous. It's just being mindful again of all the things that we've discussed.

Fiona 1:28:43

The dangerous thing is weakness.

Ben 1:28:45

If you start training for the first time after 60, and you go from zero to five sessions a week. 60 to 20. If you go from zero to a hundred, all of a sudden, that could be a problem.

Fiona 1:29:01

Yes.

Ben 1:29:04

It goes back to the same thing. One full-body stroke bass session a week. Start there.

Fiona 1:29:11

Yes.

Ben 1:29:11

That gets you a long way. Okay.

Fiona 1:29:19

Yes.

Ben 1:29:20

Right, it's the last myth, I think. Is this the last one?

Fiona 1:29:22

It is the last one.

Ben 1:29:27

Okay, do you want to Oh me?

Fiona 1:29:29

Yeah. You do so well. You read so well.

Ben 1:29:34

Wow, you're just creepy. You look creepy.

Fiona 1:29:36

Myth five. GPL ones automatically cause sarcopenia. This is a misunderstanding. Muscle loss risk increases when weight loss is rapid, protein intake is very low, strength training is absolutely.

Ben 1:29:51

Sorry, yes, a GLP1 is a is the weight loss medication. Uh-huh.

Fiona 1:29:58

Bored of talking about them. I hate them. We don't talk about them that often. Yeah, but I hear about them all the time. Oh, well they're they're a big thing.

Ben 1:30:06

They're getting bigger. More and more people are using them.

Fiona 1:30:08

GPL1 medications themselves do not inherently cause sarcopenia, often improve function via fat loss, can reduce sarcopenic can reduce sarcopenic obesity when paired with training. Again, muscle function matters more than muscle mass. Training mitigates lean muss loss. Medication isn't the issue.

Ben 1:30:35

Inactivity is another rough reading that, wasn't it? The thing is about the you reading notes sometimes is that yes, I know we we have moved on mercy, and we've moved on. We're trying to do better. Trying to have as much just general discussion as possible. But yeah, all those clips, some of them do quite well. That's the annoying part. Some of some of these clips of you just just droning on 1500 views on YouTube. It's like and then there's me there, just with just some very witty, insightful quote or something. No. Zero views. Oh my god. What's going on? So do are you understanding the mechanisms behind GLP ones? I think you are now. Yes, I do get them.

Fiona 1:31:24

I just I just don't like them. I just don't like talking about them. I don't like hearing about them. I don't like reading about them.

Ben 1:31:28

Oh, okay. Wow. Why's that?

Fiona 1:31:31

Because everyone's talking about them.

Ben 1:31:33

And it's just like Do you understand the mechanism though of GLP ones? You just you've just read that out.

Fiona 1:31:38

Yes, it caused Do you understand why? Rapid fat loss.

Ben 1:31:42

But not It can do, yeah.

Fiona 1:31:43

Yes.

Ben 1:31:44

So with sarcopenia and then also with just m losing muscle mass in general.

Fiona 1:31:50

Yes.

Ben 1:31:50

Because obviously But the drug itself, the drug itself is not causing sarcopenia. It's not causing muscle loss.

Fiona 1:31:58

Yes. And then it's the other stuff as well, because if you've got a reduced appetite, the likelihood is you're eating less, which then means that you're probably reduced nutritional things such as protein, whatever, as well, which will all impact.

Ben 1:32:10

A lot of people are, in my experience as well, a lot of people on some form of GLP1 are just eating less of the same diet. And that diet might have not been very nutritious, might have been quite low in protein, might have been quite low in fibre. And then with protein and fibre, as we discussed, they are both quite satiating. So their appetite is already reduced, and you're trying to get them to eat more protein and fibre, which are quite satiating. Will fill them up.

Fiona 1:32:46

Yes.

Ben 1:32:47

Yes. There is still some confusion around GLP ones. That they are fat burners. That they make your body burn fat. Like the old fat burners back in the day. That would heat up your body, increase your metabolism. Well, that's just that's just the average fat burner. And most fat burners on the market. Ones that you can just buy yourself will just be rammed full of caffeine. Will be rammed full of other things that may have a very small effect on your metabolism. Which will make you burn more calories.

Fiona 1:33:29

Yes. Do you not think they're over talked about GPLs? GLP ones, yeah.

Ben 1:33:34

Well they're just becoming bigger and bigger, aren't they?

Fiona 1:33:35

Oh yeah. Yeah. Well you've got all the celebrities on them now, don't you, son?

Ben 1:33:38

Yeah, so now you now you've got more people talking about how they are GLP1 experts. It's yeah. But it's a trend, isn't it? It's a trend, which I'm very much I I've jumped on. I've got clients who are using them, so it's yeah. And it'll be something that I talk about more.

Fiona 1:33:57

Great.

Ben 1:33:58

Yes. It's whatever gets people through the door, isn't it, ultimately? For a lot of trainers, for a lot of personal trainers, for a lot of gyms. What's hot? GLP ones. Here's a GLP one programme, training programme. Like, what does that mean? I've joined an app recently that has a GLP one training program on there.

Fiona 1:34:14

And what does it mean?

Ben 1:34:15

Nothing.

Fiona 1:34:16

No.

Ben 1:34:16

It means nothing.

Fiona 1:34:17

So it's just a training program. It's just a training program. That has GPL one in front of them.

Ben 1:34:20

What would you if I went to you? Oh, I've got a client here who's on a GLP one. What what sort of training should they do? Should they do squats?

Fiona 1:34:26

They're not doing any training.

Ben 1:34:28

Should they not do compound lifts? Or what about higher reps? Because they are on a GLP one, so what would you give to them?

Fiona 1:34:34

Surely it matters on them physically and their conditions and their training together.

Ben 1:34:39

Oh it sounds good though, doesn't it? If you're on a GLP one, if you so you're already paying through the nose, most people are paying through the nose for these weight loss medications if they're not getting it via the NHS, they don't qualify for it. So they're paying hundreds of pounds a month. And they get told, oh, what about your diet though? You can't just eat less of the same diet. Yeah, you'll lose weight, but yeah, you need to what about the muscle mass? You'll feel like crap. Oh, I got told I need to do some form of strength training, I don't really want to do that. Oh, I got told I need to go to the gym, I don't want to do that. Can I not just walk? Yeah, you can, but might not be enough. If you want to maximize your results from using one of these GLP ones and you are spending a lot of money on them, you need to start doing some strength training, maybe. Oh, well, I've only got about 50p left. Okay, join one of these apps. I joined the app.

Fiona 1:35:31

Who's a free training programme?

Ben 1:35:32

The app is what, 65 quid for the year? It's not bad, is it? That's not bad, or or 7699 a month. That's that's pretty good. Lots of people on there, very popular. It's got everything you need. You can track your calories, habits, I think, and it's got training on there. So you've got, yes, I know, but it's it's it's not $6.99, unfortunately. So you've got all these people that are looking to get into training, who might be taking a GLP one, who are skint because they're spending all their money on the medication, who have started to lose weight, who are getting results, so they're feeling pretty good, then they're not in a position to even consider coming off it. They might only come off it if they can't afford it anymore. A lot of people take a GLP1 and they might be on it for the rest of their life. Depending on what the circumstances are. So if you take if you say to these people, oh what you should start thinking about doing is paying through the nose, coming down to the private pushable health studio or joining the pushable health app, and it's not cheap in the grand scheme of things. The app is reasonable, but training face to face, that's not cheap. You should start coming off your GLP1 medication and start using that money instead for this.

Fiona 1:36:48

Is there I don't know if you'd noticed because you said you had clients who's on it, is there a weaning program for the GPL ones coming off it? Or do you just stucze doses, titrating the doses down, or do you just stop taking it? Because like at the end of the day, it is a medication, so if you stop taking your medications, usually there's some sort of you know problem associated with it.

Ben 1:37:11

More psychological, would you maybe start reducing your dose? But the doses only really matter based on if you stop losing weight. So if you're taking a dose and you're getting results and you're gradually losing weight, and then that stops working.

Fiona 1:37:28

Then you go to a higher, don't you?

Ben 1:37:30

Then you go to Yeah, I suppose that's the same with lots of other types of medication, isn't it, to a degree?

Fiona 1:37:35

Because you see you hear you hear people who are taking it and they stop taking it and then they continue to lose the weight, because I understand it's still in your system, but if they were weaned off or titrated down, should that not help?

Ben 1:37:49

It but it depends what's happened since they've been on it. What what habits have they put in place? Have they started going to the gym? Have they changed their diet? So can they maintain those habits? The food noise, the the dreaded food noise, that might come back. So what do you do when the food noise comes back?

Fiona 1:38:06

What's the food noise?

Ben 1:38:07

The food noise. You've heard the term food noise. That's why a lot of people say is removed when they go on a GLP one. They they aren't just constantly thinking about food. Oh, right. And the thing with food noise is that for for a lot of people, it's not necessarily about feeling hungry all the time or wanting to snack or or they've just got these cravings 24-7. It's just the idea of they're just constantly thinking about food. Even when they're not hungry, they're just bored and they're just thinking about food. I've got food, noise. It's there, definitely. I feel like I'm in a position where I can curb it somewhat. I've got a good handle on it, but it's there. For a lot of people, it's just 24-7. They're not craving anything as such. And when when they're thinking about food, it might not just be oh burgers and chips and pizza and chocolate, it might just be about fruit, healthy foods, but it's there all the time. And if they go somewhere, if they go to a restaurant or they go out, or they go somewhere where they're not in control of what they're eating. It might not just be about, oh my god, how many calories is in this food? It might be about, am I gonna have enough food? I have that when I travel, for example.

Fiona 1:39:20

Oh yes, yeah.

Ben 1:39:22

It's not necessarily about, oh my god, am I gonna starve? Can I not control my hunger? Can I not just not eat? Well, I'm doing that right now. I'm starving, but I'm still doing this. It's more about oh my god, what are the options? What food am I gonna have access to? Is there gonna be enough food? Will I have enough food on the plane? Oh my god, it's that.

Fiona 1:39:43

Yep. And then I uh bring too much food and then you give out as per.

Ben 1:39:47

That's the only way to get over that. That's the only way for me to remove my food noise. So I know that there's there's about 10 sandwiches in the back. Even though I don't end up eating them half the time. You don't eat, or I end up having one and go, yeah. Or I'm just bored and it's like, oh, how long have we got left? Oh, six hours. Oh, sandwichilla. It's like I'm playing food for the most part, it sucks, which which doesn't help, but it's like when you go to the cinema though, isn't it?

Fiona 1:40:10

When you get some popcorn or whatever. Before the movie's even started, the popcorn's gone. Just because it's in front of you, you have to eat it.

Ben 1:40:18

Environment would always play a big factor in changing people's habits. Removing increasing barriers. That's a whole different topic.

Fiona 1:40:27

Yes.

Ben 1:40:28

But food noise, I I thought you'd I thought you'd heard of food noise.

Fiona 1:40:31

No, I've got food noise.

Ben 1:40:32

So yeah, GLP one. If you mention the word food noise, that will go hand in hand with GLP1s.

Fiona 1:40:38

We spoke about GPL 1s and I don't want to. I didn't want to talk about it.

Ben 1:40:43

So yeah, so GLP 1 training programs. But for thousands of people who are taking a GLP 1 who are looking to start training. Yeah, sounds good, doesn't it? Oh, for $6.99 I can have a GLP 1 training program. That's all I can afford, so yes, please. You okay, Fiona?

Fiona 1:41:02

Yeah, my back is very sore.

Ben 1:41:03

Oh dear. Oh dear, yeah. You don't make it obvious that you're uh in some kind of distress. You never know.

Fiona 1:41:09

Just my back. Okay.

Ben 1:41:10

I just have to walk. Okay. Oh boy. I thought we'd rush through that as well, and that's I assumed this was gonna be a long one, but I don't think this long.

Fiona 1:41:21

This is what we need to do, Fiona. This is Yeah.

Ben 1:41:24

This is the the reminder that we need to just be regular with ease so we don't have to do four-hour long podcasts.

Fiona 1:41:32

Alright. Right, are we going for the film?

Ben 1:41:35

Are you okay? Do we need to stop, Fiona?

Fiona 1:41:37

No, we'll just do the film.

Ben 1:41:38

People don't want to see you in discomfort.

Fiona 1:41:39

I'm not in discomfort. I just want to crack on.

Ben 1:41:41

You look uncomfortable.

Fiona 1:41:42

I am uncomfortable. We just want to get on with it.

Ben 1:41:45

So I'll let you talk about the film. I'm not gonna say anything about the film. I'll let's let's just get it down. Because I will drone on about the film. But the film as always, it's part of the shtick, isn't it? It just links into the episode. And this film is quite relevant, to be fair.

Fiona 1:41:58

So we did Cocoon, which is a 1985 Sky-Fi movie.

Ben 1:42:05

Sci-fi directed by Mr.

Fiona 1:42:08

Ron Howard. So it got a 6.7 out of 10 on the IMDB, and it's actually based on a book by David Saperstein.

Ben 1:42:17

Oh, I see. Okay.

Fiona 1:42:18

So when advanced beings from another planet arrived at an old age home in Florida, the senior citizens there get a second chance at being young in the story of youth, old age, and how people choose to live their lives.

Ben 1:42:34

Okay.

Fiona 1:42:35

So the film's message is that it's never too late to start over and that age is just a number. They're fill the film characters are all facing their mortality, but they're given a second chance at life. Yeah, but what's that about? That's stupid, isn't it? Straight away.

Ben 1:42:49

Well, it's because they age is just a number. So for these people, they have to go off on a on a spaceship with aliens.

Fiona 1:42:55

Oh no, I think it was more so the fact that they were doing things that they wouldn't have done previously, such as the lady climbing the Chris the tree.

Ben 1:43:02

Yes, I know, but then they only did that because they literally had increased vitality from aliens.

Fiona 1:43:07

Yes, and then they were go they were putting themselves more out there, weren't they? They were going to the clubs, he was breakdancing on the floor.

Ben 1:43:14

Yes, of course. This is great. These habits are great, but I mean, in this film, literally, the the only reason they're doing that is because they actually have alien increased vitality from these cocoons. Yes, but yeah, it's not it's not a mind shift, is it?

Fiona 1:43:26

It's not that you were being quiet.

Ben 1:43:28

No, I mean, but it they haven't in in the real world, it's that that's a mind shift, isn't it? That's you know what? Age is just a number. If I want to still go dancing, if I want to go to the gym and do some lift some heavyweights, I'm gonna do it. I have to be careful because I've got some injuries. I'm not as young as I used to be. I'm no spring chicken, but I'm gonna shift my mindset. I'm gonna keep doing this because I enjoy it. For this film, it's literally they are only doing it because alien life forms have come down and they have jumped in the swimming pool and gone, Wow, I feel t I feel 30 years younger.

Fiona 1:43:56

No, they were doing dancing anyways because they were going to a little old age dance place, weren't they?

Ben 1:44:00

Yes, okay.

Fiona 1:44:01

And they were taking it a little bit easier than breakdancing, sort of speaking. The war's still doing it, but they're pushing the balls. They were just like, Right, I feel better, so I'm gonna do a break dance.

Ben 1:44:09

But but the m but the breakdancing, the is it breakdancing? No. Oh, whatever he's just doing. Yeah, break dancing.

Fiona 1:44:14

It was breakdancing.

Ben 1:44:15

Yeah. He's only doing that because of this alien.

Fiona 1:44:17

Yes.

Ben 1:44:18

Yes, he's not doing it because he's gone. Do you know what?

Fiona 1:44:20

I'm gonna do it.

Ben 1:44:21

If I break my hip, I break my hip.

Fiona 1:44:22

YOLO.

Ben 1:44:23

Yeah.

Fiona 1:44:24

Yeah, but then they'll just be careful in the real world. They go off with the aliens because they're getting a chance at mortality. So they're getting the chance of feeling like that forever. I know that's true instead of feeling like they did a couple of months ago before it started getting in the poop.

Ben 1:44:35

It's a bit much though, isn't it?

Fiona 1:44:37

Well, it is a bit much. You're never gonna see your family again, you're gonna live forever and ever and ever. You've got your man and your one, who's literally he's having affairs left, right, and centre, to just got back together, and now they've got a whole life of mortality together. They haven't even resolved their issues.

Ben 1:44:52

Is that not the beauty of life? Is that you know it will end?

Fiona 1:44:55

Well, yeah, but for these folks, it's not.

Ben 1:44:58

And for them, lucky them, they had their little moment, didn't they? They they were able to go dancing, they were able to climb trees, pain-free. So I suppose they got they got a taste of it, didn't they? They got a taste of that. They're like, God, do you know what?

Fiona 1:45:10

Yeah, yeah. For God knows feeling how long how long they were feeling like crap for as well. Because you know, you see the other people in the nursing home, you've got that guy with the with the mobility aid, and he's barely walking, barely stepping, he's more so shuffling in his steps. Do you know it it's like they're looking at that and they're saying, geez, well, I feel great, so I'm just gonna, you know, go break dancing. And why why not? If you are feeling great, why not?

Ben 1:45:34

Yeah, let's just be careful. That's just that's just preface this. This is based on the film.

Fiona 1:45:37

So then did find it very hard yet last night about the reality of the whole film and stuff.

Ben 1:45:45

Yeah, if you do want to go breakdancing, please, but just be careful, yeah. Please be careful and and hopefully make maybe do the the full body strength-based session for for six months at least. At least, yeah, if if you're currently not doing anything, if you're gonna go from doing nothing to break dancing and you and you're older and you've already got some some nickels or some fake hips or knees, wowie. Yeah, no, just yeah, take it easy. Yeah. Because if you do break your hip or you hurt your knee or whatever, and then someone says, you know, what possessed you to just go from doing nothing to break dancing? Oh, pushball health. Fiona from pushable health.

Fiona 1:46:19

No, it wasn't me. It wasn't me.

Ben 1:46:21

Okay, yeah, I'm gonna see with them.

Fiona 1:46:22

Maybe speak to your healthcare professional beforehand. Uh and then there was a second film called Cocoon to Return in 1988. I don't think it went down as well. No, it didn't. 5.4 on the IMDV.

Ben 1:46:34

And they just returned from the ship, did they?

Fiona 1:46:36

Yeah, it was scientists. No, scientists found more cocoons in the ocean. Yeah, and it was just more of the same.

Ben 1:46:43

So the original cast came back from the spaceship?

Fiona 1:46:45

No, not the full original cast, no one it was a different director.

Ben 1:46:48

Uh yes, I saw them.

Fiona 1:46:49

Oh also, it got two it won two Oscars as well.

Ben 1:46:51

Did it?

Fiona 1:46:53

For what? Oh, I don't know. I can't remember. Uh best supporting actor. For who? What Brimley? Don't know. Didn't look at that Benjamin. Do you recognise do you recognise Brimley? No, I think. Wilfred Brimley? Oh, I haven't done it's Bromley.

Ben 1:47:05

Oh, is it sorry? Oh, Bromley, sorry. Why am I saying Brimley? Is it Brimley? Oh no, no, I'm confused now.

Fiona 1:47:09

Was that name this? I know the actor. I'm never right. It's Brimley, it is Brimley.

Ben 1:47:14

It is. Say you made me a second doubt myself. You made me doubt myself.

Fiona 1:47:18

But I'm always wrong.

Ben 1:47:20

Do you recognise him?

Fiona 1:47:20

No, I've no idea who he is.

Ben 1:47:22

So he's in the thing.

Fiona 1:47:24

Oh the table.

Ben 1:47:25

You know, Blair who gets infected and they have to then put him in the hut.

Fiona 1:47:28

Oh yeah. He's here. Oh, okay. Yes. But by God, so he plays Ben in this fell in this in this film or William, whatever, but he's whatever. But he's the eye test man. He's the man that goes for the eye test and he's not allowed to drive, and then he's able to read the lower lore line. He was forty-nine years of age when this film went to hopefully. Hold on a second. He was forty-nine years of age.

Ben 1:47:56

Yes.

Fiona 1:47:56

The fact that he was in a playing somebody who was in a residential home. And he only had to have his hair dyed grey. That was it. There was no special makeup, there was no nothing else.

Ben 1:48:09

Are you sure there was nothing else?

Fiona 1:48:10

Just dyed hair grey. Hair dyed grey. And I think he popped the glasses, the medi glasses, the code or right.

Ben 1:48:16

This is back in the 80s, this is like 40 plus years ago. So I think that's that is the norm.

Fiona 1:48:20

Now But he was he was playing somebody who was 75 and he played it very bloody well. Yes. He looked the part.

Ben 1:48:26

The good thing about this the good thing about today and some of the advice that we've we've given is it's not completely alien anymore, is it? A lot of people are already doing this, or at least considering it. They're considering some of the stuff. They're considering joining a gym. Strength training. It's not as alien anymore to them. Back in the 80s, lifting weights, strength training, exerting yourself in that manner was for younger people. You get to 15 and it's like unless you're already doing it and you can just maintain it, it's just not happening. It's just few and far between, isn't it? If you go to your doctors, if you hurt yourself, the general advice is well, you're old now, you're in your 50s. Low impact, gentle movement for you. For women as well who are going through menopause. The advice, even now to a degree, but back then, back in the 80s, before that, yeah, just be careful. Gentle movement. Get one of those Jane Fonda DVDs. Is it Jane Fonda? Put the light coron and do one of the exercise videos. Just join one of those.

Fiona 1:49:37

Maybe maybe they were doing that in the video, in the in the movie.

Ben 1:49:40

Right, there you go. And maybe, but be really careful, get some of those pink dumbbells. And that's it. That's your lot because you're 50 now. And you're going through menopause. So one full step and it's game over.

Fiona 1:49:54

Well, he was 49, just to put that back out there.

Ben 1:49:56

Yes, and what was the thing about Tom Cruise? Oh, there was memes going on about

Fiona 1:50:00

Tom Cruise about when he was in Mission Impossible, he was actually five years older than Brimley was in this film.

Ben 1:50:07

Still doing his own stunts and jumping off buildings and out of planes and stuff. Yes. He's looking pretty good, Tom.

Fiona 1:50:13

Yeah, he well, yeah, but you know, your man, what he he he he what he did look a lot older than, you know.

Ben 1:50:20

But I think even now and back then, I think that was about right. I don't think he was an anomaly. I think that was about right. Wasn't that?

Fiona 1:50:28

Yeah.

Ben 1:50:29

Maybe he's he's at the far end where it's like, Jesus Christ, he's 49. Holy moly. But I don't think that's far off. Because he was he was look at your mum. He was right, yeah. He was an older adult. Like yeah, he was pushing 50. 50.

Fiona 1:50:45

I just that's some age. Yeah. But yeah.

Ben 1:50:49

I don't think he was lifting.

Fiona 1:50:51

Very good casting. Yes. Basically, yeah. But yeah, it was a good film. CGI was a bit on the dodge side, wasn't it? Aliens were quite dodgy. Fine. Very, very dodgy.

Ben 1:51:03

No more dodgy than it is now.

Fiona 1:51:05

Well, that's very true.

Ben 1:51:06

It was 40 years later.

Fiona 1:51:07

The ship looked a bit rough. The son, the grandson was a bit annoying.

Ben 1:51:11

The aliens were terrible.

Fiona 1:51:12

The aliens were terrible.

Ben 1:51:13

Yeah, they were terrible. Yeah.

Fiona 1:51:14

But cocoon looked all right. That decrepit little cocoon when they opened up and he was there. That was practical. Yeah. That was quite good. Yeah, practical looked good. He looked very dehydrated. Yes. But yeah, no, it was, yeah. Storyline and that. You know, is it a film that I'd watch again? Maybe. Because it's it's just one of those films, isn't it? You just kind of just like, oh, look at them go. You're kind of oh.

Ben 1:51:40

And that's what it's all about. Joining pushball health. Increased vitality. That's what we're here for.

Fiona 1:51:47

That's what you're here for.

Ben 1:51:48

That's what I'm here for.

Fiona 1:51:49

That's what you're here for.

Ben 1:51:51

Didn't even get into my clients. Didn't even get into examples from my clients. It just so happens that a lot of my clients are over 50, over 60. Yes. Nickels, injuries. So they are looking to find ways to increase their strength. To improve and to maintain their quality of life. And for most of them that started, they were in a similar position. They were in a similar boat where they thought that, well, I'm already in pain, I've already got a fake knee, I've already got a fake hip. Lifting weights, this is really? I'm not too sure about this. I saw you and thought, oh, if I'm gonna do something, maybe I'll I'll give this guy a go. But I'm still very much on the fence about it. Lifting weights at my age. I can't be doing that.

Fiona 1:52:41

But how do they feel about it now?

Ben 1:52:44

Most of them are, yeah. Well, all of them. All of them that are in the gym, they're feeling a lot better. Good. They're seeing the results, they're getting stronger.

Fiona 1:52:50

How's their pain?

Ben 1:52:52

Yeah, it's still there.

Fiona 1:52:54

Yeah, it's not gonna go away.

Ben 1:52:55

They're able to manage it better.

Fiona 1:52:57

And that's the thing. It's not a few.

Ben 1:52:58

Nutrition as well, it all plays a part, doesn't it? Once they get into it, once they and then for some of them, for some of them, they might have been quite active already. So they might be walking, they might have been doing stuff, they might be swimming. That's great. So now with with some form of strength training, on top of that, on top of stuff they're already doing, it's going, it's going well. They're realising that that goes hand in hand. And it's making everyday life, and that's the that's the biggest thing for a lot of older people, it's making everyday life a bit more bearable.

Fiona 1:53:29

A bit easier, yeah.

Ben 1:53:31

When you're younger, walking upstairs, walk up and down the road, it's like, oh yeah, whatever. But when you get older and your knees start to hurt and your hips and your back, everything just hurts. Walking upstairs without holding the banister becomes a big thing. And you just get used to it. Oh well, I'm I'm 60 now, so it's just the way it is. If you can then all of a sudden, by doing some form of strength training, not hold the banister anymore. Oh, hang on a minute. I'm 10 years older. What's what's going on? Well, right, maybe it works then. Pretty happy about this. Oh, these shopping bags, oh god, these these have felt really heavy the last couple of years. These are a bit more manageable now. It doesn't feel like my shoulder's about to pop out of its socket. This is alright. Right, okay, strength training, yeah.

Fiona 1:54:18

Just getting them there, isn't it? The first place to figure it out and just get those.

Ben 1:54:24

And if you're doing stuff that if you're already in pain, it's managing pain as well. There's a whole different thing. We should do an episode on that, on pain, pain management. It's a whole different thing entirely.

Fiona 1:54:32

I love the pain management services.

Ben 1:54:34

Right, we should do that. Because if you're doing a form of squat, if you're doing some kind of movement and your knee feels a little bit niggly, your shoulder hurts, it's easy to go, well, is this making it worse? And you have to rely on me to say, well, no, I think based on doing it this way, based on reducing the load, based on reducing the movement, based on reducing the movement pattern, based on not getting you onto a barbell, based on stripping it back and finding something that for the most part is pain-free. And is making sure that you're not crippled the next day. The older you get, and if you're just used to living in some form of pain, if your knees just hurt most of the time, then it's not the end of the world. And if you start lifting heavy things, you expect it to be uncomfortable. It just depends. Everyone's different.

Fiona 1:55:26

Yes.

Ben 1:55:29

Okay. Wow, we wow, wee. How was my hair looking that whole episode?

Fiona 1:55:34

I wasn't looking at your hair, Ben. I was thinking about food halfway through.

Ben 1:55:37

Well you What a shame.

Fiona 1:55:38

So that really Your hair looks nice, Ben.

Ben 1:55:41

I wouldn't say nice.

Fiona 1:55:43

It looks better than usual.

Ben 1:55:44

That's a shame though, isn't it, Fiona? So you were switched off halfway through.

Fiona 1:55:47

No, I wasn't switched off, Ben.

Ben 1:55:48

You were running at what capacity?

Fiona 1:55:50

Probably 75% and then 50% in the last 10 minutes.

Ben 1:55:53

Wow, what a shame. What a shame. Yes. Disappointing.

Fiona 1:55:57

Yes. But it's two hours ten minutes. Hopefully a lot of content then. It's two hours ten minutes, Ben.

Ben 1:56:01

So hopefully a lot of snippets to take away from this.

Fiona 1:56:04

Right.

Ben 1:56:05

Hopefully the this is a a a slightly less low quality episode.

Fiona 1:56:09

Hopefully. We'd ask your man and give it ask him for his opinion.

Ben 1:56:12

Right, pushable health. Pushable health.

Fiona 1:56:14

Pushing your health from the positives life.

Ben 1:56:15

If you live in the Hernbay and Witstabull area.

Fiona 1:56:18

Canterbury.

Ben 1:56:19

Canterbury, yeah. Come down. Come down for a chat. A complimentary chin wag down at the private pushable health studio. If you're online. If you live in Botswana, the pushbull health app. Either on a one-to-one basis or Team Rotter. It's ready for you. The website is ready. We're there. We are ready to go. If you want to join Team Rotter, a group coaching based program. But it's not a six to eight week shred. We're not doing that. No. This is an ongoing thing. You okay?

Fiona 1:56:53

Yes.

Ben 1:56:53

You're not gonna be there forever? That was the neighbor coughing. You're not gonna be there forever, but this is a long-term thing. Not a six to eight week shred.

Fiona 1:57:08

Why are you looking at me? Look at the camera when you're saying this, but you're talking to the audience.

Ben 1:57:12

This is not Team Rotter is not a six to eight week shred. It's a long-term thing, but it's reasonably priced. It's affordable coaching. That's what it is.

Fiona 1:57:22

Good. Something's affordable in this day and age. Excellent.

Ben 1:57:27

And the point is of Team Rotter is that eventually I want you to give me the middle finger. I don't want you there forever, but you need to be there longer. Oh, that's a shame. Two hours. Imagine if I didn't save. It'd just have to be a podcast. Wowie. Push the luck over two hours.

Fiona 1:57:50

I told you to stop. I was getting ready to go.

Ben 1:57:53

Okay. The camera has run out of memory. So finishing off.

Fiona 1:57:57

So the camera's run out of Steam and I've run out of Steam.

Ben 1:58:00

Team Rotter. Not another six to eight reach red. This is a long-term solution. Affordable online coaching. Link in the bio. It's there. Have a look. Is it? The landing page is is quite wacky, but that's what this is all about.

Fiona 1:58:16

Okay. So thank you for listening. Goodbye and good luck.

Ben 1:58:20

Helping you find a form of exercise that you can stomach and a diet that you can stick to for longer than 10 minutes.

Fiona 1:58:25

Yes. Goodbye. Say goodbye.