Roots to Health with Dr. Craig Keever
Welcome to Roots to Health—where we dig deep into the foundation of lifelong wellness! Hosted by Dr. Craig Keever, Northwest Arkansas’ first and only plant-based pediatrician, this podcast unearths the power of nutrition, lifestyle, and holistic health to help kids, families, and adults thrive.
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Dr. Keever breaks down the science of nutrition and disease prevention in a way that’s simple, practical, and life-changing. From raising healthy kids to optimizing adult wellness, each episode delivers key insights that challenge conventional wisdom and empower you to take control of your health.
Whether he’s debunking nutrition myths, explaining how food shapes long-term well-being, or sharing actionable tips for disease prevention, Roots to Health is your go-to guide for vibrant living—one bite, one step, and one conversation at a time.
Get ready to rethink everything you thought you knew about health—and discover just how powerful roots can be!
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Roots to Health with Dr. Craig Keever
The Family Plant-Based Journey: Strategies for Kid-Friendly Meals
"What's on your child's plate today shapes their health tomorrow." This isn't just a catchy phrase—it's the reality facing parents navigating a food landscape dominated by processed options, clever marketing, and conflicting nutrition advice.
In this candid conversation, Dr. Craig and Amy Keever tackle one of the most challenging aspects of plant-based living: getting kids on board. Drawing from both clinical knowledge and personal experience, they unpack why the standard American diet has become so problematic for children, with unprecedented rates of obesity, type 2 diabetes, and fatty liver disease appearing in kids at younger and younger ages.
The discussion moves beyond simply listing health benefits to address the practical hurdles families face. How do you handle school lunches when the cafeteria offers few plant-based options? What strategies work with picky eaters who turn up their noses at anything green? How can you navigate social situations like birthday parties without your child feeling left out? Each challenge is met with thoughtful, realistic solutions that acknowledge the complexity of family dynamics around food.
Amy shares kitchen-tested strategies that have proven successful, from creating visually appealing bento box lunches to involving children in meal preparation. The conversation explores how smoothies can serve as a gateway for introducing vegetables to reluctant eaters, and how children's taste preferences can transform surprisingly quickly with consistent exposure to healthier options.
For parents concerned about nutritional adequacy, Dr. Craig breaks down common misconceptions about protein needs and explains how plant-based eating can provide all necessary nutrients for growing children. The couple emphasizes that perfection isn't the goal—progress is. Whether your family commits to one plant-based meal per week or embraces the lifestyle fully, every vegetable-forward meal represents a win for your child's long-term health.
Ready to transform your family's relationship with food? Download our free PDF of kid-friendly plant-based recipes and join our supportive community of parents navigating similar journeys. Your family's health revolution begins at the dinner table—and we're here to help you make it delicious.
Click here for free downloadable PDF for Kid's Recipes! https://www.ozarkpediatrics.org/plant-based-resources
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The information provided in this video is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have seen or heard in this video. Dr. Craig Keever is a licensed pediatrician, but the content shared here is general in nature and may not be applicable to your individual health needs.
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Welcome to another episode of Roots to Health. I'm your host, Dr Craig Kiever, and this is my lovely vegan chef and wife, Amy I have a tile.
Speaker 1:So this episode we've entitled what's on the Plate how to Build a Kid-friendly plant-based meal. So basically, you know, we've kind of talked a lot of science. Actually, that's going on in the science of nutrition and it's been going on for a number of years, but it's getting, I think, more press now and I think it's gaining a little bit of momentum. We're still not what I would consider mainstream and I'll point to a couple of reasons for that in a minute.
Speaker 1:Today is that the research is really clear, you know that even if you don't go completely plant-based, a diet that is really heavy in fresh fruits and vegetables is always a healthier option. I think I can be very safe in saying that. You know, and I think I've said on the podcast before, you know my, I think I say that word too much, you know, but anyway, it's what we are. It's what we are. So, um, where was I the the um? You know, the science really points to this being the healthiest way, and I'm not particularly about being anybody's food police, you know, and I tell this to my patients and their families all the time. You know I'm not about necessarily trying to push my agenda Right In my appointments.
Speaker 2:Well, I always say I'm not. I mean, what's made me think about it is like a food pope, because they feel like they need to confess you know Right. Well, I really like it's OK, we're here for those that need advocacy, exactly, you know resources.
Speaker 1:And I think the reason this way of eating and this way of living has not gained more traction, in large part two big factors I see, and the first is that nobody wants to own up to and I certainly never wanted to own up to is food addiction. You know, we like what we like and we get hooked on it with. You've got big industry behind all the unhealthy things in our diet. You've got big meat, you've got big egg, you've got big pharma, you've got big dairy.
Speaker 2:You know there's a lot of money in all of that. Dairy is very much backing breast cancer awareness. So those things that are raised funds I'm not saying I know all of that, but a great deal of it is to go towards research.
Speaker 1:That's yep, yeah, and the flip side of this that occurs to me as I'm, as I've thought about these kind of things um, there's no big broccoli or big asparagus or big cabbage? Yeah, pumping tons of money into research and marketing for those things. You know, the healthy diet Can't market a broccoli, yeah. I can't own that realm. Exactly, exactly. So you know it's an uphill climb.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an uphill climb, yeah, because the fact of the matter is, all those things that ended up being really bad for my health are really tasty. Well, and they have that. I mean, like there's no question if I'm you know, I had a retreat this week and I brought all my food, but if I ever have any kind of those, even if it's vegan junk food, it's like I mean that doesn't have it like meat and dairy did. As far as like these addictive qualities, you know that you find in something you know I met a dear person who's now a dear friend of mine has alpha-gal, and so alpha-gal has gotten people really looking at things, because you know there's there's bone in sugar to whiten the, and I can't explain how they do that, but it's like it's. It's in so many things you don't think about gelatin.
Speaker 1:gummy bears are bones yeah, yeah, crushed and boiled, and yeah okay, yeah, no, no so so, yeah, I mean, I mean so it's, it's an uphill climb and you know, we used to joke a lot, uh, initially about and we still throw them out there once in a while about how sometimes it feels like or I used to think this way that it was going to be like when eating plant-based it's, it's all just grass and cardboard. Now, you know, but amy has shown me the flip side of that that uh, eating plant-based is one of the most rewarding, tasty and satisfying ways of eating that doesn't have that backlash after you eat out the backlash.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right I saw a meme this week that had said here's a salad for a non-vegan. You know how it how a non-vegan thinks we eat and then here's a salad, but made by vegan. It's like that's how I started, was like terrible.
Speaker 1:Just you know, I did it bad, yeah so, yeah, I think, uh, so to kind of point this towards helping our kids make good choices and teaching them how to eat right, you know, that's kind of why this all my health, you know, and being 100 pounds overweight and type two diabetes and high blood pressure and high cholesterol, and on five medicines and now I'm off of all it just was getting progressively worse and it was getting progressively and you know I was terribly scared of going to the doctor before I met you.
Speaker 2:You really did help me so much and plant-based helped me so much because I had all these weird symptoms. I was so scared that something really bad was going to happen to me because I had all these weird symptoms and so we just don't have that Like I mean, you're never going to see a 100-year-old carnivore diet person. It won't happen. You'll never see a carnivore diet person. It won't happen. You'll never see a carnivore diet person without some level of heart disease. And you're never going to see heart disease in a whole food plant-based, no oil, vegan, maybe vegan junk food, but it's not possible, you know.
Speaker 1:I don't think people realize that and, to that end, I recently watched a video on YouTube from one of our favorite plant-based people, dr Joel Fuhrman, and they were talking about the amount of research that's out there now supporting and this is real research that is not really approaching it from a perspective of wanting to promote a particular thing. They're just looking for what is the truth, right, right, as opposed to, there is a lot of I I don't know if it's a lot or not, but there is pseudo research out there that's bought and paid for by big meat, big egg or misinterpreted by these big corporations.
Speaker 2:Pairing a Twinkie to something you know maybe a little bit healthier, and that's the study. Yeah, and I should say as a disclaimer, you would find heart disease in someone who had had history with meat and dairy, who is now whole food, plant based. So I don't want to make it sound like that. Right, you know it can't be possible that way.
Speaker 1:But Dr Furman's point was there's now thousands of solidly well put together research projects that prove the value of plant-based eating and there's almost nothing out there for, for instance, the current fads of carnivore, like you'd mentioned, or keto. That's scary. And yet those ways of life, carnivore and keto, you know, I think they're looking for a way to justify eating everything they want. That's my own personal impression. I don't have science behind that.
Speaker 2:And what I want to say to people is question your doctors that are telling you this Do you have a nutritional background? Because doctors are out there touting that and they have no research. They've seen a YouTube video themselves. I guarantee you there's not science-based research that says you should be on keto and a long-term study. Give me a 20-year pattern of keto and nobody stays on that right, nobody. It's not sustainable it is and it's and your liver could not handle it if you could handle it right right I want to show you this one little thing first.
Speaker 2:Um, let's say I had it pulled up. Now I lost it. I thought this was so good. We have it on our page and it has circles and it says first it is intention, then a behavior, then a habit, then a practice, then a second nature, then it simply is who you are and that's really where we're at. That's we don't say that at all. It's like, look at us but saying it really is just second nature. I wouldn't even think about eating any other way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. And so then, why does this point so strongly to getting kids started on this? Well, I was going to mention something we talked about before a few minutes ago, about you know how the meat and dairy is problematic. But I think, no matter how you eat, whether it's carnivore, omnivore, whatever, I think just about everybody can point to processed food Absolutely. And when you're talking about addictive, yes, I think there are some addictive qualities to meat and dairy and those type of things, but the processed food, I mean, some of these corporations actually have full departments set to make their products craveable. It's really not food.
Speaker 2:It's a chemical.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:I mean, what I'm seeing with kids now is they're eating too many calories, so they're overweight, but they're nutritionally anorexic in a sense. They're nutritionally deficient in a way that we can really stand to do a lot less calories and our body does not think of us being in starvation mode. I almost wonder does the body look at it that way when they're not getting the nutrients but they're getting caloric? I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a good point. So yeah, and then when you look at the nationwide statistics in terms of why is this important for kids, I don't think that there has ever been a time in history where this percentage of kids was obese, where we're seeing type 2 diabetes and fatty liver disease in kids, you know, and it's all related to all the processed garbage.
Speaker 2:And we're also seeing a huge rise in anxiety. We're seeing a lot of depression. I mean, you know, I was listening to a speaker last week and he said I have never seen it. He goes into jails and, kind of you know, helps them work out their issues and things like that, and he's I've never seen it this bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons, you know, to go heavier on the plant based. If you can't go completely plant based, I totally get that, it's it's a big decision. It's a big decision, it's a big jump, you know, and I think, um, there are a number of ways to go about it and we've kind of talked about it and hinted at it at some of our podcasts before. How do you, how do you get started with this? And and that's kind of why this idea for this topic has evolved, and because if you start getting the whole idea of eating fruits and vegetables as a kid, it's not such a jump later in life.
Speaker 2:That's the best gift you could give your kids. We are wanting to talk to moms. I've reached out to several boards to just hear how did you do it? You know were you plant based from the get go and so, because you know mom and dad really have to transition, you can't transition a child without mom and dad, so that's that's a hard sell.
Speaker 1:You know that is a that's a very good point, and you know, as we're talking about, how do you get your kids to eat, that you know that implies that mom or dad or both, hopefully have kind of latched on to at least getting more fruits and vegetables. Why is that so important? And, and, of course, the flip side of that question is where do you get your protein? We talk about that all the time as if protein wasn't in fresh fruits and vegetables. Um, granted, it's not in, uh, fresh fruits and vegetables to the degree it is in meat, right, um, but, as we've also talked about in other episodes, um, you know, in this country, protein deficiency is non-existent.
Speaker 2:okay, what is existent is fiber deficiency and terrible levels of colorectal cancer you know it's like that's and inflammatory bowel disease and autoimmune disease, and autoimmune disease, all these things.
Speaker 1:We are the sickest country country out there all these things have links to our diet, and hence my one of my very favorite phrases um, as we moved into this, I'm talking more is food, is medicine.
Speaker 2:Totally, totally Changed my life, changed your life.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I mean it's hard not to talk about it when and I was encouraged at this retreat we were with so many amazing women and I had several people, once they found out I was plant based, were like, well, what about this? What about? They were curious about it. And so, and one lady said, well, what if I couldn't do all of it? I said, absolutely, you know, I so. And one lady said, well, what if I couldn't do all of it? I said, absolutely, you know. I said, what about Meatless Monday? She's like, yeah, we're doing that. So, people, it is being talked about in a way that gosh, I feel sorry for people that were plant based 20, 30 years ago because there weren't.
Speaker 1:There are a lot of resources now there are to just find it there are. So part of the purpose of this chat today is to kind of address some common misconceptions again and we've talked some about some of these and to help parents maybe start to deal with if they're really interested in moving their child more towards plant-based eating. Whether it's all at once or step at a time, you know what are some of the common issues that happen as we're moving that direction. You know so.
Speaker 2:And I will say a good resource for moms is the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine slash kids. They have a lot of great things about how much B12 they're needing and how much you know great videos, and we're going to be giving a free PDF, a downloadable PDF, of some recipes for moms. It'll be linked in the show notes Awesome.
Speaker 1:All right, well, moving right along, then. The second segment here we'll call the anatomy of a kid-friendly plant-based meal. What does this look like?
Speaker 2:I love your titles so.
Speaker 1:So how does this look, putting this meal together with each? Anytime we're talking about a human diet, we're talking about the three macronutrients, okay, and of course, protein leads the way, because that's what generally everybody wants to hear about right away.
Speaker 2:We got to get that out of the way we got to get that out of the way.
Speaker 1:So I think the first thing I would say about protein is and I've kind of come to this in the last few days as I thought about it and how to make this just easy to understand how much protein does a person need in a day? And I've gone through several different permutations of kind of oh, what it really boils down to is get your weight in pounds, and it's pretty close to half that, right, right, I mean, there are different ways to tweak it. You can tweak it to tell yourself if you're like a bodybuilder and you need more, or if you're a kid in a growing phase, you need a little more or not. Or you're an older person who and not in their 60s, because seniors need more as well but your average adult from 20 to 50 probably needs a little less, right, depending on what you're doing and just to remind people that maybe didn't hear you talk about this we don't store protein.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, I mean to kind of paraphrase what she's talking about. Yes, out of the macronutrients, protein is the only one that we have no storage for. With carbohydrates, we have a substance that our body makes called glycogen and that releases glucose and, under the proper conditions to keep our blood sugar level, our fat storage is infinite. We can get as fat as we want, and that yeah and so. But when we eat too much protein, what happens to that is we use what we need for that given day in terms of muscle repair, hormone production, all kinds of things, but at the end of the day, when we're done using the protein, if we don't use it, it is metabolized into carbohydrates or fat and stored that way.
Speaker 2:So you know, I've never really been someone who really had more than like a glass of wine or two, and my liver enzymes were getting higher when I was on meat and dairy and it was taxing my liver. You know it was, and I talked to my doctor at the time. He goes oh, don't worry. Uh, I know people, I have ladies in their 70s that, um, that don't even drink, and this is happening to them too and I thought don't worry, you know. I mean it's like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's issue number one. What are our sources for proteins and how do we get kids to eat them? Well, our sources, primarily, are going to be things like tofu and lentils and beans and chickpeas and nut butters, things of that nature. There are, you know, also proteins in grains Again, we're talking about percentages and it's different, okay, in all these things, but there are proteins in them. There are proteins in all the colorful vegetables. Broccoli has protein. Watermelon has protein. The watermelon has protein. So, yeah, there's ways to get your protein, there's ways to get your protein. And yet, and then all of these, um, other macronutrients, the fat and the carbohydrates are also in these things, like the whole grains. We got plenty of carbohydrates in those, um, along with a low protein. Our, our veggies have lots of carbohydrates. Are the beans to back up have been great? Yeah, I mean there are super.
Speaker 2:You feel good. That's why it's satiating. You feel like you're not, because I was listening to doug lyle um this morning and he he's a really great one. That's the pleasure trap, is that right? And he was trying to. We won't deep dive into this because I can't exactly explain it, but he was talking about wet fats versus dry fats and things like that. But, um, he was just saying people will load up on water, thinking that that fills them up, and he said that's not how the body works.
Speaker 2:He said it's going to delay a little bit, but it's not going to. You're going to be just as hungry. You need meat, like things that are going to keep you satiated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all those nutrients. And then, of course, speaking of one of those nutrients that helps keeps us satisfied longer healthy fats. Speaking of one of those nutrients that helps keeps us satisfied longer healthy fats avocados, nuts and seeds. Very important for kids Kids diet is probably a little heavier in the fats. You know, the average adult without metabolic issues can probably tolerate about 30 percent of their calories coming from fats.
Speaker 2:Give or take about a 30 percent of their calories coming from fats. Give or take um, but I do always find it interesting that we had the lowest fats of any species in the breast milk. Right it's. And then this is why I say you know, there's several plant-based doctors that have said whole milk or milk for a child in that first year of life is very dangerous.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's taxing on their kid well, yeah, and I and speaking of that's a good reminder I've actually been reading a little more about dairy stuff. And you're right. You know, cow's milk has three times the amount of protein, and that's the problem. We don't give infants.
Speaker 2:And probably three times the amount of fat I would guess.
Speaker 1:I didn't read any stats on that, but you may be right. But the issue with the proteins is, in infants especially, that can create such a burden on the digestive process and the intestines that it creates little tears in the surface of the the lining and ends up being, and possibly creating, anemia. Wow, I hadn't heard that. Yeah, and sets you up as a risk factor for type 1 diabetes. I've never heard that.
Speaker 1:So there's a number of reasons we don't do pure cow's milk, but formulas can be based on cow's milk as well, cow's milk as well. You know, it's not worth saying that cow's milk is useless because it's been used for a long time and there are nutrients in it. But when we're talking about needing to get proper nutrients, my approach to this is really where do we get the best ones Right? Right, because we'll go for gold. You can get, yes, you can get protein, you can get fat Right. But where is our source for the ones that are best for our body? And that's the major issue and that's the sticking point that a lot of people really want to argue about well, and I still go back to what's in that cow's milk because I have been around rendering.
Speaker 2:My father was in it. I had been around dairies and it's like there's a lot of stuff that those cows are being fed, that you know it's just right, it's a lot well, right and, and as we've talked about too, you know, my first approach to this way of eating was because of my health issues.
Speaker 1:But as I've gotten into it and I've recognized to your point, you know, the ethics of the animal industry, it's not good, yeah, and nobody in the industry wants that out, yeah, but the fact is it's not good.
Speaker 2:Well, and I saw something today and I may have to hunt for it a little bit, but it was talking about. Okay, here it is. I hope I can read it without my readers. It said on the Earth's surface that 76%, I think, of land was built was about agriculture. You know, as far as trying to feed these animals, I mean, it's just crazy and I need to break this down more.
Speaker 1:But, um, it apply to our kids' plate, right? Okay, because in recognizing some of the issues, for instance the picky eater, toddlers and young children school age children are often notorious, for you know, once they're introduced to the process garbage.
Speaker 2:That's it. I mean, I've seen vegan babies that from birth they've been vegan, and those kids eat an artichoke like it's, you know, a candy, you know. So it's like it is their taste buds that have been reset.
Speaker 1:Yep, those are not natural things, that's right and so yes, I would say, particularly a first and a kid that's been exposed to a lot of processed garbage, it's going to be a tough sell.
Speaker 2:Same as a human being.
Speaker 1:Same as an adult. That's exactly right.
Speaker 2:Human being.
Speaker 1:The child's not a human being, sometimes kid to do this. Then it becomes incumbent on us to how do we make this more interesting, right, more flavorful, more fun?
Speaker 2:And that's what I like about Plentiful Kiki's Plentiful Kids book. I mean it's really based on probably older kids, not not toddlers, but it's just making it, making it look desirable for kids. You know just really pretzels and you know my friend that has Alpha Gal. We were talking about it and she said, you know, they know they're eating vegan. You know I fix things like that. And she was saying how when people they'll have an event or something and there's just such stigma to think like, yeah, but you like vegetables, you know, you like an apple.
Speaker 2:So yeah, but you like vegetables, you know you'd like an apple.
Speaker 1:So yeah, All right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, some apple pie rings. Those look really good, just really tasty.
Speaker 1:All right, so we'll move along into segment three, overcoming some common challenges. We've kind of addressed those a little bit the dealing with the picky eater. How do you do that? You know, I think there's a lot of different ways to approach it and I think for a kid that's been that's had a significant portion of processed food in their diet, it's probably going to be a slow change. To rapidly change is not going to go over well.
Speaker 2:And with blended families and things like that, it gets hard because they go off or they go to some party. If the whole world had this available, it might be a little bit easier. Right, because it makes it hard for us it's hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a challenge.
Speaker 2:And it can be ostracizing for a child.
Speaker 1:We'll get to that too. There's a couple of topics here in that, so I'll give a for instance in terms of how I approached this. When I started modifying my diet, when I finally realized that my health had been jeopardized and it was really because I was eating the standard American diet and not getting enough activity those two things the very first thing I did, before I had done any research on anything, was I stopped drinking soda. Right, that's one of the biggest.
Speaker 1:I mean I always tell my kids in my checkups there are zero nutritional benefits to drinking soda. Zero. It's all sugar and chemicals. And if you're drinking diet, it's all chemicals and none of it's good for you. And so when I finally last a hold of that and got serious about changing my health, the first thing to go was soda. Yeah, I mean, that's just a no brainer. The first thing to go was soda. Yeah, I mean, that's just a no brainer. And so my point with that is really I was starting the process and taking it just one step at a time, because really to change and go do an about face 180 degrees from eating one way to eating the other way, you might be successful for a couple of days If you're lucky.
Speaker 2:A week, yeah. And then you're going to say, oh, this is too hard. Yeah, that's kind of how I did it. I went all or nothing and then I went back and forth for a while, you know.
Speaker 1:For sure. So, taking it a step at a time and finding you know for me what was the worst part of my diet and just eliminating that was one method Right. I think other methods with kids, particularly the school age kids elementary school and up may be a little difficult for toddlers, but it could be found a way to get them involved in the kitchen.
Speaker 2:Totally. I mean, that's the key, yeah, and make them get them fun lunch pails and get them, you know, with the bento boxes and things like that yeah.
Speaker 1:Let them experiment with their food, let them help produce their meal.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, having something different might even be something that a kid other kid would be like. Well, you go up there.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:So I mean mean, and it's all a mindset really because, um, my mom was very independent and like, hey, doesn't matter what the rest of the world's doing, and that that helps me in a lot of ways, because if you have that mentality, I see people on plant-based boards all the time saying, now, people are making fun of me. It's like I don't know if that affects me and you, I don't know that we really care. And so it's like, do you have some people that you need to just be? Um, let it go. But then maybe you know, just let them know, like that's a problem, you know, because, um, you've got to, you've got to do it in a way, or maybe some boundaries need to be put right yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:so another way, you know is is probably kind of Working in this idea about getting the kids involved in the kitchen, making fun shapes of foods, you know again, just to make it interesting for the kid to kind of tie in. You know, some of these foods have different textures. I very much recognize that they're, you know, with sensory kids, autistic kids and not even fully autistic, but just kids that have sensory issues. Diet is a big deal and can be very, very difficult, and those kids just have to go a lot slower and maybe an air fryer could help, because I know crunchy is air fryer, yeah, the thing that you want to have and another very good option that uh often goes over well is smoothies.
Speaker 1:Okay, a lot of times a kid will drink something, yeah, that they won't touch.
Speaker 2:It's solid I see kids all the time on the smoothie shred. Dr bold, nurse, you know those are green smoothies. You know they're and they'll be like my toddler's fighting me for it. You know like he wants it. He wants some of it, and part of that maybe because mom's like this is so amazing right you know, as moms we know all too well, you gotta, you gotta, be half drama coach. You know, as far as like, oh, this is incredible.
Speaker 1:So I think the biggest thing in dealing with picky eaters is just kind of that patience factor and really trying to work with them and get them involved and see where all this is coming from. And play with this, make it fun, yeah, and that's a big deal.
Speaker 2:And Apple Seeds is doing a lot of good work that way they go in.
Speaker 1:Yes, they are.
Speaker 2:I'm a part of the Bentonville Garden Club, which I love and adore, and they go into the schools and help the kids with their gardens and they do meals together. Helen Lampkin, our darling Helen, does a lot of that and many of the ladies do.
Speaker 1:So the kids love it. They are so empowered by that. Their focus is not at all like are we eating vegetables? They just like that. They are a part of the planning. You know that's a big deal if my kids are being ostracized because they're vegan or whatever. You know, at parties, at school lunches how do you deal with school lunches? Yeah, sadly the government is subsidized by big dairy and big meat and whoever else gives them money.
Speaker 2:We grew up, our ladies in the cafeteria were making home-cooked meals, you know, and everything kind of comes on a truck now, Yep. So it's really really difficult for moms to get past that.
Speaker 1:It is, and so I would offer that. You know the plant-based eating, kids are probably better off avoiding school lunches. I mean, it's sad to say there may be some things that could be picked out.
Speaker 2:And community. Try to find other vegan moms in your area.
Speaker 2:That's a big deal and get kids talking to other kids. That you know because I mean again, at this retreat we had all these lovely ladies and it's like I'm all in my bright artist wear but I was just like everybody else there because I was with everybody that was, you know, wearing bright clothes. Maybe they didn't have pom poms for earrings, but so if a child can see somebody like them, same thing with you know, if someone's going through cancer, you know community in that.
Speaker 1:Well, and here's the other fact, I think is we're talking about this socialization process with kids, and particularly as they're getting older and their friends are meaning more to them. Um, it doesn't have to be, and I don't want to be crucified for saying this, but as a kid's going through this, I like what rich roll talked about raising his kids. Yeah, he always talked to them as they're going out and and one of the things he said stuck in my mind he said you know, I always talk to them and tell them just try to make good choices.
Speaker 2:That's right as a parent, not lording this over them totally is a big deal now sometimes it's a mom just trying to be an advocate for their kid, like they're just trying, they're they're too young. And it's not that the kids like trying to go off, it's that they're saying, hey, we should be able to have a, we should not have to have all that junk. You know, because it's on the ethical side and I will say I've seen some little five and six year old girls that know that, that's that they don't eat animals and that helps the child. You know, dr morgan, right, yeah, the child. You know, dr.
Speaker 1:Morgan Right yeah the ethical science, you know.
Speaker 2:So that helps kids sometimes and there's a good way to do it and a bad way to do it, yep.
Speaker 1:So it's really just a process for our kids of educating them and I really strive, especially as kids are getting older, and empowering them. They're getting older and they start to really understand what's behind all of this. And, and you know, I've got a kid actually what is he? 13 or 14 and he is just hooked on dr pepper and I met with him imagine someone doing well.
Speaker 1:I met with him a month ago right, I'm not saying this to point at you, no, I know, I know so I I met with him last month and we talked about you know what are the thing healthy choices we can make, and he was talking about he. He drinks probably three to five dr peppers a day. Yes, right. And what age? He's? A young teenager, okay, 12 to somewhere around there. Um, and he and his dad and I were. His dad was really fully supportive of let's try and do healthier, let's try to get in the hole of it no, I didn't go there, but.
Speaker 1:But when I talked to him about limiting or eliminating that, that was one of the things like happened to me when I, when I started to change and just gave up soda.
Speaker 2:Well, that was a good thing that they took it out of schools like yeah, because I was getting them that way I was. I was a little christian school that had a little coke, you know thing.
Speaker 1:So so, yeah, his dad jumped on the bandwagon and, uh, I just saw him a couple of days ago and he has cut his consumption in more than half.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. So it just takes just one day. Better, that's right Is better.
Speaker 1:And so that's my point with this is is the education process is a big deal, you know, but I don't do this 100 percent compliantly Right. You know. I'm not going to expect my kids to do that Right.
Speaker 2:100 percent compliantly right you know I'm not going to expect my kids to do that, right? So, just like doug lyle, I mean, you and I are eating vegan foods. But he said, you know, every once in a while I go out and get a vegan pizza. And he said and I love the way he explained it because he said, um, someone was saying, does a glass of wine hurt? He goes, does it? Is it a? Is it a toxin of some kind? Yes, but he said to what enjoyment? He said you know, I was around some other plant-based doctors that were doing.
Speaker 2:And he said I don't, it's not enjoyable for me and he said but am I going to have a cup of coffee that has a little bit of a caffeine, a little bit of a drug addiction? You know, yeah, I'm going to do that. I'm going to occasionally have a, a vegan pizza, so it's like it's. It's all going back to that test and measure kind of thing, because I always tell somebody about the steakhouse when we saw it had 400 fat grams in one meal. You know not that we were eating that meal anymore, but we were eating things that were like, okay, that's 35 to 45 grams of fat, right, dr lyle, you know, if you're trying to lose weight, you have no business having nuts in your diet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a tough one for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a tough one for me, because our sauces yeah. We love those. Good, that's right. I packed the Alfredo sauce with me this week and I'm like, oh, that's one of my favorites, just like so.
Speaker 1:And then the last challenge I want to just point to is the fact that you know the convenience factor of processed foods and the other things that we tend to avoid, and that's a big deal, because the prep time then becomes much greater. Doing this plant based stuff becomes much greater. Doing this plant-based stuff. Now, how do you get what's? There is a hack to taking care of that, but it still requires a little bit of time and forethought. But you, on let's say, a weekend, make a big pot of something, make, make your week's worth of food.
Speaker 2:Well, it's just like this trip. I'm sure if someone had watched how much I prepped and then, well, it's just like this trip. I'm sure if someone had watched how much I prepped and then haul up that big ice chest upstairs and things like that, and then I had to stay at a hotel the night before, so I had to haul it up to the hotel. I know that there's times where I'm going like, oh, lord of mercy, I should just go get some food here. But once it was there, I was so grateful. I was so grateful because when I spoke, I forgot to eat before I spoke and I wouldn't have had any. You know, we were in a very remote location. Yes, I could have gone to a gas station, but that would have been about it, and so, um, I've gotten to where I'm. It's very comforting to me now.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, very much so All right, did you happen to bring any specific things to point to?
Speaker 2:I've got and I kind of wanted to just hear from you like what are some of your favorite meals that you like? I mean, it's kind of hard to think of them on the spot, but just so people kind of know, like what are you, what are we eating? You know, I mean, like I'll, I'll start. Okay, I did the vegan crab cakes which I'm telling you y'all. That is like so good. It's heart of palm and chickpea is in it and it has that flakiness Like it tastes just like a crab cake to me. And the remoulade sauce I brought the. You're kind of trying to avoid pastas, but I did pasta with the fettuccine Alfredo sauce.
Speaker 1:Amazing kind of trying to avoid pastas, but I did pasta with the fettuccine alfredo sauce, uh nice, yeah. So then, just to point out, I'm avoiding pastas just because that's, um, a type of carbohydrate that tends to spike my blood I mean I did white pasta, so it's not the best choice, I mean, but I was.
Speaker 2:You know, when I go off like that, I'll give myself a little luxury that I might, because I know you're not eating it.
Speaker 1:Well, on the flip side of that is, you don't have the metabolic problems, right, so it's not going to cause your blood sugar to spike like it does it doesn't.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's not probably the best choice, but it doesn't Right. And then we have the tuna-ish, as I said. Great yeah you make that from uh chickpeas there you go and tofu, and there's a silken tofu. That's kind of like the what is it? Mayonnaise that you put in. It's been so long since I've had tuna fish, I don't even know. But, um, what else did I pack? I did the quinoa salad, which is one of my favorites. Oh, that's a peanut thai sauce, so you had your tofu scramble yes, that's.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's my go to a. When I first started this process, oatmeal with some fruit on it was my go to for breakfast.
Speaker 2:I always feel bad if you have to have the same thing. You're like really.
Speaker 1:And enough weight loss. I figured out, finally, that for me, oatmeal is another one of those things, that if I eat too much of it it's spiking my blood sugar, and so I went on a search for an alternative for breakfast, because that's what I was eating, and there are several plant-based types of scrambled eggs, fairly pricey. Right, and come to find out. You can get extra firm tofu and mix that with sauteed vegetables and throw in the right spices and it's just like scrambled eggs.
Speaker 2:And it's not really got a lot of fat in it. The other one has an enormous. The Just Eggs has like 50 grams. That little bitty carton has like 50 grams of fat.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean, like I half hardly say like, do we really need to know all this? But there are some things it's like it's not worth it and you know, at the end of the day, I mean I really want to encourage everybody to get their blood work done, because you know there's some people that will even try to eat. I've heard people say I'll eat right and two weeks before I get my blood work done, like you're fooling you, not the doctor, you know Right, and there's a lot of things that that wouldn't even work anyway. But but you know, if, if your numbers are telling you I I mean, this is what I wish people could understand nothing feels as good as this that it is. It is worth everything, I don't. And and how you look at it really matters, because I've seen people that went vegan and they're just like hang up you know, we really don't feel that way no, we don't now.
Speaker 1:What we do have is periods of time where because sure, yeah, we're eating at home all the time right we don't have I'm really not crazy about that one yeah, we really don't have the ceremony. Uh, going out to eat, and how fun that can be, um, and so we've had to figure out ways to make it different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and, like me, I never really have had a lot of mixed drinks, but I love the ritual of like maybe having a glass of wine. So I've really gotten excited about mocktails because we're using and, if people want to join, our plant based tribe is the Keevers plant based tribe. It's on Craig's website, it's a Facebook page and it's going to be linked in the show notes as well, but we've just been having super fun with pomegranate balsamic and chocolate balsamic and the California balsamic salmon tribe All kinds of different flavors.
Speaker 1:So much good. Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2:So much, goodness. Well, and I'll just throw out a couple examples Like for toddlers, a mini zucchini chickpea patty with apple. That'd be kind of close to what I do, a fruit and veggie smoothie. So you can. This is another thing I want to tell moms. We do a smoothie that has kale in it and you really would not know that it has kale in it, except that it's the coloration.
Speaker 2:But you can get those vegetables in a kid, you know, through a smoothie, that they wouldn't normally eat them, that's, that's a fact. So preschool tofu nuggets I mean, they taste so good almond butter, banana, sushi rolls, and then, up on elementary age, asian inspired stir fry with tofu, veggies with rice noodles, you know, again, make it fun, something they've never seen before. And that's what we're trying to do in this upcoming garden that we're talking about is to have vegetables and things. Someone told me that they did a tour of their garden with with school age kids and the beet was every kid's favorite and it was some particular beet that I cannot, cannot remember, but it doesn't have that earthy, like you know, dirt taste. So, yeah, well cool.
Speaker 1:So, in terms of finding recipes that are more kid friendly, you've got some resources yeah.
Speaker 2:So plant-affiliated kids is a great one. I think this is good about getting the kids involved, and we've talked about some of these, but plant-based baby and toddler this is one that we've really not talked about, but it's endorsed by Dr Colin Campbell, D Colin Campbell, plant-powered families. So those are some, and then I'm going to try to link some of those We've linked some. Last time We've got a show coming up about lifestyle medicine as well, where we kind of go through the other pillars of lifestyle medicine, which would be you could rattle that off All the pillars.
Speaker 1:there's six pillars of lifestyle medicine, with the first one being nutrition, but then we've got exercise, sleep, stress management, avoidance of toxic substances and relationships.
Speaker 2:They're all very important. That's the Blue Zones in a nutshell. In a nutshell so if you haven't seen the Blue Zones, that's a good show to see on Netflix.
Speaker 1:So all these books are great resources for specific kin-friendly recipes and we'll have links to those in our notes. Yes, and you mentioned a downloadable PDF. Yeah, we're going to have some recipes recipes.
Speaker 2:I always love videos. I'm going to get as many videos as I can, some of these. We won't be able to do that, but I'm going to do every age group, from toddlers to pre-k, to um, middle age and high school awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, we were reaching the end, kind of. To recap things, I think I'd like to get the point across that it is very possible to successfully transform a kid into more of a plant-based eater. And you know, I would like to remind people that I've said before, while I do believe that the whole food, plant-based diet, the way we're doing it, is really the healthiest way of eating on the planet, it's not the only way to be healthy, right?
Speaker 1:And if you don't have metabolic disease like I have, yes ie high blood pressure, type 2 diabetes, history of obesity, all those things. Your metabolism is healthy and can do everything it's supposed to do. A mediterranean diet is a reasonable option. Again, a mediterranean diet. They americanize them. Yeah, a mediterranean diet is a reasonable option. Again, a Mediterranean diet, the Americanizer. Yeah, a Mediterranean diet is an emphasis on fresh fruits and vegetables and add a little bit.
Speaker 2:I watched the great oil debate with Dr Garth Davis and Rip Esselstyn and now I got to say I think Rip's got that one. I mean, I just don't think he had anything to really challenge that. So and Dr Lyle says hey, if there's a little bit of oil in your marinara, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But he said am I going to tell you to do a salad dressing with oil? He said absolutely not. You know it's 4,000 calories per pound. Well, not that you're going to get a whole pound, but hey, there's enough processed foods.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, if you're going to get catfish, that's been fried or something you know exactly and I always say it's okay to do it in a mild version, but don't plan the diet if you're not getting results for whatever you want to do, right, you know, and that's that's what I would point to as well as if you're looking for results from being on a plant-based diet, the best way is to be 100 in right, and if you can't yet go 100 in exactly, which is fine, yeah, just don't be too disappointed if you're not getting the results that you really want. That's right, you know have.
Speaker 2:Have patience with yourself.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:What I want to say is, yes, we get frustrated sometimes, but there's not a part of us that's like I want to go back to eating.
Speaker 1:We really don't say that no, I mean, we really don't. I don't miss the old way of eating. I guarantee you, if I did not enjoy the way I was eating almost five years into this, I would not still be doing it.
Speaker 2:That's right. I mean, that's what I want people to know is, like anything, anything that takes discipline. There's going to be when you're working out, there's going to be days where you're like, oh yeah, but you're so glad and committed to yourself, and there's something about making that promise to yourself and keeping it. That's really important.
Speaker 1:Well, here's the other important thing Taste buds change. They sure do, once I got my palate cleaned of needing all that salt and oil and sugar.
Speaker 2:Yeah. A whole new world opened Absolutely, and you'd be sick if you ate that way. I would.
Speaker 1:And kids' taste buds.
Speaker 2:Their palates change a lot quicker yeah change a lot quicker, yeah, so don't be too concerned if a kid won't eat, whatever it is, for that particular day or week. We had a post and it said their taste buds change every two weeks. Right, and you know I love what Dr Lyle said. He said is caffeine going to do something to your body? He goes yes, because that's why you have a headache when you stop. Same thing with those foods If they were healthy for you, you would not feel like death after you get your palate clean. There's a reason why I always say, if you ate an orange three years later that you had not had it would not do that to you.
Speaker 1:Well, and I've relayed my experience with having been plant-based for a while. Um and my blood sugars were coming under control and we had a uh an evening that we decided okay, we didn't plan real well for this, and family was in town. We went and ate pizza. This was about at the house. Yeah, oh cool.
Speaker 2:This was what three and a half years ago or so, and my blood sugar was wonky for days and there was one point in the 200s wonky there was one point when you had popcorn, when we went to movies with oil and it was, it was high for two weeks, yeah, yeah, like. But that's that just shows that insulin resistance. Right, you know, you were fairly new to it at that point and that wouldn't that would be the case then.
Speaker 1:Not only that, but I felt terrible for several days afterwards oh my gosh I just felt sluggish and you said it's, it's a real thing yeah, I mean I don't.
Speaker 2:I know we have frustrations, but there's not one part of me that wants to. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, I would like to encourage, or maybe even challenge, um, some of our viewers, uh, to experiment with a finding, a new plant-based meal to try this week that's a great idea, you know great idea, yeah and uh, if you do that, uh feel free to let us know, and maybe even you know.
Speaker 2:Look at your own diet like you're. You may be more vegan than you think you are maybe.
Speaker 1:Well, I appreciate everybody tuning in and, uh, I want to say a quick shout out this.
Speaker 2:I met this darling artist this this week and her um studio is moon forest studio, I'm so. It's her children's middle names, so everybody needs a pin from her like, like she had them at the. I know this isn't about food, but she had them at the retreat and we all got them because they were darling. Every artist needs a little shout out.
Speaker 1:They do that's right, they do All right. Thank you very much and we'll hopefully see you next time.
