Roots to Health with Dr. Craig Keever

Overcoming Obstacles To A Sustainable Whole Food Plant-Based Life

• Dr. Craig Keever • Episode 20

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Ever feel trapped in the “there’s a pill for that” loop while your labs keep creeping the wrong way? We’ve been there. Today we pull back the curtain on how a symptom-first mindset masked the slow march from high cholesterol to high blood pressure to type 2 diabetes—and how shifting to a whole food plant-based approach finally addressed the root causes.

We get practical about the real obstacles. Social friction and family traditions can derail the best intentions, so we share low-drama scripts, plant-based comfort food swaps, and how to be “the happy vegan” at gatherings without turning dinner into a debate. Convenience doesn’t have to mean processed food: batch cooking, silicone freezer molds, frozen veggies, and a global spice rack let you assemble fast, flavorful meals all week. Taste buds do reset; when salt, sugar, and fat stop shouting, real flavors come through, and cravings fade with satisfying staples like banana nice cream and clean sauces.

We also tackle the big nutrition questions. Protein? Easy to hit with tofu, legumes, whole grains, and seeds. B12 and vitamin D? Know your numbers and supplement smartly. We separate trend diets from evidence, pointing to trusted resources that cite the science. Cost surprises most people—beans, rice, potatoes, and seasonal produce keep budgets in check—while restaurant eating calls for flexibility and oil awareness. We close with our three whys: better personal health, a lighter footprint on the planet, and a clear stance on animal ethics.

If you’re ready to move from treating symptoms to transforming habits, this conversation gives you tools, recipes, and mindsets to make change stick. Subscribe, share with someone who needs a nudge, and tell us: what’s the one swap you’ll try this week?

Thanks for listening to Roots To Health!

The information provided in this video is for educational and informational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have seen or heard in this video. Dr. Craig Keever is a licensed pediatrician, but the content shared here is general in nature and may not be applicable to your individual health needs.

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🌱 Follow Dr. Craig Keever for more plant-based pediatric insights:
📍 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ozarkpediatrics/
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📍 Website: https://www.ozarkpediatrics.org/

🎨 Connect with Amy Keever for art, creativity, and inspiration:

Website for plant-based Cuisine : https://www.wildflowercuisine.com/
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📍 Website: amykeever.com

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SPEAKER_00:

I'd like to welcome everybody to the next episode of Roots to Health. I'm your host, Dr. Craig Keever, and my lovely vegan chef, licensed. You're developing quite the repertoire here. I am, I guess.

SPEAKER_01:

You don't know what to call me.

SPEAKER_00:

My lovely partner, vegan chef, wife, um, licensed teacher of uh plant-based cooking. Yes, yes, yes. Yes, all of the above. So today uh I'd like to address a topic that um we probably addressed um at various times in different um the segments, uh different episodes, but I don't know that we've sat down and addressed this as a topic. Really address it enough. Yeah. Uh and and that is obstacles uh to changing from the standard American diet uh to a plant-based diet uh and and way of life. Um to keep this in context, of course, uh, as everybody out there that's listening probably fully understands, um, but of course, the standard American diet is just um laden with fats and salts and um sugars and uh all kinds of other processed things and chemicals that are just really not good for us. Not food. Not food. That's exactly right. Um, having said that, and having just done this not too many years ago myself, um, there is a complete recognition of um this is a tough change.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it's it's first and foremost a mindset. It's really not so much about the food.

SPEAKER_00:

That's exactly right. And then uh the the um the mindset change um come came about for me when I finally started to recognize um the health issues that this was causing me. You know, I I bumbled along for years uh with high cholesterol. And, you know, at age, I think I was what 27 or 31. I can't remember exactly, but somewhere early 30s, uh, when I finally found out that I had high cholesterol, um, you know, no big deal. There's a pill for that. You know, I felt fine.

SPEAKER_01:

Pretty dad gum young typically.

SPEAKER_00:

Pretty pretty dad gum young. Um but I felt fine, you know, and I just in recognizing that, okay, that's a risk factor for heart disease, I started the medicine without, you know, even thinking twice about it. And clearly not thinking about getting to the root cause of, well, why do I have this? You know, the first thought is, oh, it's genetic and I can't do anything about it. So I just need the medicine to fix it. Okay. Bumbled along for a few more years on one medicine, and lo and behold, um, not only had I started to gain weight a little bit, um, not because of the statin medicine or anything like that, just a natural progression of the standard American diet. Um, now I've got high blood pressure. Oh, well, that's kind of easy to fix. Uh a little blood pressure medicine. Yeah, no big deal. No big deal.

SPEAKER_01:

And uh to your point, it's not like you were asking for it, but Western medicine, that's just how we do it. Right. You know.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And and I addressed that in my talk at the Bentonville Public Library, you know, that um uh this is the approach of Western medicine. Um, it's not necessarily an approach that uh, you know, tries to tap down to the root cause of all of this. It's just here's your symptom, here's your pill. You know, and uh and as I mentioned in that talk, you know, this is, in my opinion, an abject failure of Western medicine to deal with these kinds of issues. And I think the tide is turning slowly, uh, but there's still a very big prevalence of the whole attitude of pill for nil.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's would you say that billing almost makes it to where it's really hard for a physician to even have that time with a patient because they really make it to where it's kind of you have to get in, get out.

SPEAKER_00:

I think it can be viewed that way, uh, and unless the physician has a mindset change. And, you know, uh in my um practice, uh certainly uh that's kind of changed for me in recognizing the importance of basic nutrition and trying to teach my families and my kids, hey, this is a lot more important than this culture ever gave it credit to be.

SPEAKER_01:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. Right. You know, um basic good nutrition will fix or prevent so many things. Amazing what it's it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01:

When it can turn off genes, I still can't get over how it can really turn off certain bad genes that you have in your body. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00:

And I love yeah, it's so hopeful and empowering, you know. And that quote kind of or that thought comes from a quote um that I and I can't quote it directly, but from T. Colin Campbell, where he compares um, you know, our nutritional status to a symphony with our genetics. And it just plays our genetics like a symphony.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely, mate.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So, so yeah, um uh in and in going through this whole process as I was kind of getting through, you know, well, there's another medicine, and then a few years later, oh, I've got type two diabetes. Now, where did that come from? You know, oh, I need another medicine for that. And of course, once you get to that place, the medicines are only very softly tapping the brakes on a progressive illness. And they're really not and they're really not fixing anything. Right, right. Uh, right. So uh it was not too long after that. Oh, there's a second medicine for my type 2 diabetes. And by this time, oh, by the way, I'm on two medicines for my blood pressure as well. You know, so again, the the whole idea of the root cause. Um and and so and my point with all of this in terms of in light of today's discussion uh is really how subtly uh this whole um metabolic syndrome takes place.

SPEAKER_01:

And we're also kind of taught that, oh, the heart disease doesn't have anything to do with your blood sugar. It's like they they dissect it and it's like it most certainly does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, these are all very interrelated. That's right. Exactly. And so in today's talk, there are several categories that these obstacles uh show themselves to changing that mindset. And I had probably most, if not all, of them, as I went through this process. And, you know, the first time I ever started to think about the possibility of plant-based eating being for me, because I many times prior to this joked, oh, I'm a medetarian. Yep. It's a personal choice. Yeah, you know, it's like a lot of what veget a lot of what vegetarians will say, you know, this is a personal choice. And and, you know, and I was kind of poking fun at that without really fully understanding what was going on. So, but the some of the most common chain uh challenges in in um changing that mindset um start uh really on a social and cultural basis. Most definitely. You know, and to that end, you know, some of my first difficulties uh as I began this process, you know, I saw the movie uh forks over knives, and that was the first time I ever started thinking, maybe I need to change the way I eat.

SPEAKER_01:

And uh was there a part of you that was kind of like, you know, like I'm gonna, I mean, I think what happens to people is they convince themselves, well, it's just in my genes. It's just, you know, that so that that food, you know, noise is still stirring, you know. It's a big talk, it's that little devil on your shoulder.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, yeah, there's there's that, and and there's the whole uh knowledge that I have now about uh food addiction, you know. That's what I mean. That's yeah. I mean, uh knowing now the what I didn't know before, that there's so many foods in the standard American diet that that have an addictive uh opioid-like um component to it. Even if it's a very low level of that, uh dairy being one of them, and I and I go back to uh some of the things I've seen in videos and whatnot, and and this picture of a baby with this goofy grin on his face after just having taken his milk and he's milk drunk. Yes, it's a real thing. It happens for a human thing. It's a real thing, and that's not a bad thing. Yeah, and that's not a bad thing at that age, you know. But uh as we get older, uh, you know, so dairy is has that uh opioid-like quality, meat actually has that opioid-like quality, and sugar and chocolate.

SPEAKER_01:

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it that after that certain length of time that a baby is, you know, getting into toddlerhood or a calf that I mean, like that we lose that ability to even digest that we're all kind of lactose intolerant.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, a large majority of the population does we we have the di uh enzymes to digest lactose uh as an infant. And uh use and I I don't know the exact age range, but it memory serves as somewhere between one and two years of age, that we lose our ability, most of us, to produce lactose. And so that's why such a large percentage of the human population um gets lactose intolerant. Yeah. It's not meant to be that way. It's not meant to be that way. So regarding social and cultural barriers, you know, as I went through after I saw that movie Forks Over Knives, and I went through the process of kind of thinking about, well, how do I do this? Well, I didn't have any mentors that um I could lean on for learning about plant-based eating. Um, all of my friends were definitely not into this, and we were all going out to restaurants and so shit.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, right. What's this about?

SPEAKER_00:

Who did you murder?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's right. That's always my joke.

SPEAKER_00:

So um, so yeah, I mean, that becomes a real issue. And not only that, but then you tie in with that. Now, I didn't have any of these particular issues, but you know, family, uh cultural meal plans and and and those kind of things and traditions, um, and fear of losing favorite meals and and whatnot. You know, we have certainly addressed that. My uh again, my lovely vegan chef took it on herself as I was starting to go plant-based to say her main j goal in life was to uh create many of my comfort foods. Make sure from a plant-based uh basis. And and that has uh very well succeeded. I mean, these um all these foods can um I say all, we still haven't figured out a filet mignon. Yeah, but that's okay. Yeah, I'm not worried about it.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know. I think Derek Sarno is pretty dang up close.

SPEAKER_00:

You're right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

The caveat to that is he to make it really go there, he uses a lot of oil, and so we're staying away from it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we're staying away from it.

SPEAKER_01:

So I would I would challenge that.

SPEAKER_00:

And there's still possibilities for that. So, but yeah, I mean, that's the the whole idea, you know, in terms of challenges to going plant-based, um, the all those you know, cultural ideas and the ideas of my favorite meals and stuff like that. Another issue with the social and cultural issues uh regarding, you know, just social gatherings, you know. Um, as a plant-based person, um, you know, many times people are made that aren't plant-based are feel uncomfortable and and get poked at. That's right. Um, I've been fortunate, uh, not very often has that happened in my journey. Uh, but there have been a couple of people.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, it definitely happens to us, but um, I think you have to be a little bit of a maverick or have a maverick attitude of like, okay, you know, like that's on you. Like I before I went, before I became a vegan, I guess I could use that word too. Um, I never had that in me to want to tell somebody like, ugh, you know. And so if if you got that around you, you might need to kind of just look at your boundaries because that's not really necessary. We really don't have both our our dear friends and family don't really do that.

SPEAKER_00:

Sure. So, how do we overcome some of these uh issues with the social and cultural barriers? We've already addressed that a little bit in terms of uh trying to figure out plant-based versions of our full former comfort foods, but um uh other uh ways to do this, particularly in like potlucks and stuff like that, you know, uh if you're the only plant-based person there, bring obviously bring your own.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And and no one's gonna really, I mean, they will know because you're plant-based, but uh how many times have we done meals where people, if they had never known, they would they just gobbled it up. So it's right. My advice to that is, you know, don't make a big deal out of it. And everybody does this differently. I have friends that are plant-based that they're like, I can't go to that restaurant because I can't eat that. I am like, I always say I'm Switzerland. I'm like, I'm good. I can go, you know. So if you need to get a little snack, which you maybe talk about um in in ahead of time, but um, yeah, just don't just be the happy vegan.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, be low key. Love Dr. Clapper. He's like, yeah. Be the happy vegan. So and and another uh way of helping uh through some of this, uh, in in particular in the face of somebody that's a little more confrontational, like, why don't you eat meat? Well, have a short, canned, planned answer for that. You know, it's like you know, whatever works for you in terms of a response to that kind of question.

SPEAKER_01:

And that response could be, I don't care to talk about it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you know, as simple as that.

SPEAKER_01:

You really don't have to go into any detail.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. You don't.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And and should you choose to, it's like, well, meat's not healthy for me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Period.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

They don't have to agree with you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Dr. Essliston, to avoid oil, would tell someone that he was allergic and he would say, I can't have a drop of that. And so they made it, they went above and beyond to make sure, you know, I've had people when I don't will now say I don't want cheese on something, they'll say, Do you have a dairy allergy? And so, you know, those kind of things are pretty common now.

SPEAKER_00:

You bet. Uh, the next uh common obstacle uh is just uh a a logistical one, just based on convenience and time. You know, the I suppose you could say benefit of the standard American diet is Is there a benefit? Is there a benefit? Well, yeah, it's why people yeah, yeah, it's why people stay with it. Yeah, uh convenience. Oh, there's a lot, yes. Yeah, convenience. We say that facetiously. You bet. And and just the time management, because in reality, being plant-based does um sometimes pose a little increased um demand on your time.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, especially when you're traveling, because if you really want to know that you're gonna have good food, you don't have to prep it, but we found that it's just, you know, and again, everybody finds their own rhythm in this, and that community is so important. Like the potluck the other night. We had such a great conversation with people that we've known, you know, for a while now, but oh, I didn't think about that, you know. And we went back and forth as far as and that's what I'm excited about. Um, teaching at Honeycomb. I'm gonna be teaching at Honeycomb Kitchen, and it's amazing in Rogers, you know. Plant-based people need those outlets where they can just get around other people that like those kind of same things just to have social.

SPEAKER_00:

You bet, you bet. And and the fact of the matter is that these uh, as we've uh probably already hammered on uh to this point, but you know, the the processed foods uh do have a convenience aspect to them, but they're killing us.

SPEAKER_01:

They said 65% of what people are eating is the is the highly processed foods. I'm like, wow, that's a lot of non-food.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a lot of non-food. That's exactly right. So what are some of the solutions to this? You know, one of the things that we've come with um is batch cooking.

SPEAKER_01:

Man of super cubes, I can't say enough about that.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I would if if you have time, I'd like to explain a little bit of that. Yeah, it's called super, um, not like super duper, but soup, as in S-O-U-P-R, yes. So you can find them on Amazon, but wow, we've gotten into a really good rhythm of like they come in half cup, cup, two cups, and you can do little tablespoons for like any kind of sauces. It's a really great way. I was always having extra tomato paste, and I would, you know, not I just throw away half of the the jar because I wasn't gonna use it. But now we've gotten to where I'm doing, you know, you never know if all your greens are gonna get used throughout the week. And so I chop kale, I put them in those little super, and they're perfectly little rectangles. I should have brought some.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, so what they are is these silicon things that are getting there. I'm getting okay. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So you can actually cook in them. Um, they're steel reinforced and you can put them in the oven and then go directly to, you know, let them cool down a little bit and go into the freezer. They have a cap, so they they freeze in like it's almost like having Legos for your meals. So they're like perfectly little um rectangle or square, and then they fit. They even make a casserole where you can put three of them in at a time, which I love the challenge of that. Um, challenge, you know, the fun of that. So that's been really nice because we'll do rice, kale, um, even our frozen veggies. I might do them up ahead of time and have them individually done like that, where lunches become a lot easier like that.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. So, yeah, having things uh uh ready-made, batch cooked in the freezer to pop out. And I mean, that's that's made a world of difference a lot of times. So, and using uh, you know, just frozen vegetables from from the grocery store. I mean that's yeah, while that is a form of processing and we're trying to avoid processed foods per se. It's not really worth it. That's that's not, yeah, the the ultra processing is what we're really talking about. So frozen vegetables and frozen fruits are all on the table, so to speak. Absolutely, yeah. For sure.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it gets my grains in a whole lot more if I can handle individually little cups.

SPEAKER_00:

You bet. Next, we'll come to uh uh a difficulty with uh changing uh to a plant-based lifestyle in terms of uh being taste and cravings. Um and this is something that actually for me uh has changed over time. I think most people do. I think one of the big problems with the standard American diet is, of course, um our tongues get and taste buds get so coated with the the taste of the fats and the sugars and the salts. And and um it takes a while.

SPEAKER_01:

Lots of sodium.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right.

SPEAKER_01:

More than you can even imagine in the standard diet.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my goodness. And so it does take a while, um, weeks to months, uh, for those taste buds to actually cleanse themselves. And uh, I can tell you that I taste things much more vividly than I ever used to. Um it's just pretty incredible. And uh not only does that unmasking of my taste buds uh has that happened, uh, but um, you know, I'm I'm exposed to so many more different flavors. Um it's just um it's such a wide variety of things that made it much better.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and they've proven that sodium does up your, you're going if if you have sodium in food versus not, you're going to eat more. It just gives that credibility and it really causes, you know, a lot of hunger.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, and there's actually some real science to the knowledge that a high fat, high salt diet does stimulate your dopamine um pathways and which creates that addictive quality to it. And so once you decrease that, then you know, I I will honestly say, you know, uh I joked about the filet mignon earlier, but I really don't have any cravings, you know, for anything like that. And and really the thought of of some of those things from the standard American diet, um it it quit bugging me after probably several months to a year.

SPEAKER_01:

That's what I mean. I think people think we sit around just like, oh gosh, I wish. And you know, I'm sure at the beginning when I was um even at home, I might have thought about that kind of stuff and surely in a restaurant, but now it just kind of grosses me out. It's not even something that I I even remotely, you know, I wish people could understand. It's not, and part of the food noise that goes on in your head, probably part of that addiction is just those processing, you know, all those additives they're putting in. Because I've said it before, I could have dairy and then two or three hours later I am like nauseous if I don't get food in, you know. This has been years ago, of course, but I can go 16 hours, no problem. Now, you know, it doesn't bother me.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah, and in solutions to these cravings and whatnot. Um, for instance, one of my biggest solutions, you know, I was an ice cream hound, right? Oh my goodness, I could eat ice cream after every meal. And I think, in fact, shared one time I did for a while during med school on an experiment uh that was being run by somebody else. Anyway, but uh suffice it to say that um I've got a real sweet tooth and our had, it's not as bad as it was, but it's it's still there. I still have a tendency to favor sweet things. And I've really solved that in large part. Um, the biggest thing was nice cream. So using bananas as a base and just as simple as freezing them, throwing um the cocoa powder and vanilla extract and almond extract and a plant-based milk. And I've got something equivalent to a Dairy Queen soft serve.

SPEAKER_01:

And if you want to go farther, the date lady has her new chocolate syrup and it is duh vine. Also her chili sauce. And I will say for convenience sake, that it's really low sodium. It does not have all the junk. She is, she is a very clean product. The chili sauce has been my absolute favorite because a fresh sauce is gonna go bad in five to seven days. But hers is something where it's like shelf stable and it it is so nice to be able to just pour it on something. I use it probably every day. Well, I think the chili sauce, not the chocolate. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I I think the point of all of this is in the plant-based world, there are definite substitutes that for us, I think, have really um solved that craving issue, that that, you know, these certain taste issues, uh, whether it's because it's kind of mimicked in some ways uh the standard American diet and and brings that kind of comfort or just a new flavor that it's like, wow, this is awesome. Yeah. You know, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

It's just a different way of cooking. And it and in some ways it's not at all. And so it just depends. But if you can get those spices, if you can get those things that are you might you don't have to, but it does make it nice when you can do something where it's got, you know, you bring the comforts of home.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah. And I tell you, we've got a spice rack now that um it just From every culture. From every culture, it's like it's something to be um it's a work of art. It's a work of art.

SPEAKER_01:

It's so the next I mean I will say to that point, we did get a really nice spice rack, and I have an alphabetical, and I know when I got a new one the other day, you were like, oh gosh, we're gonna have to go all the way down, but it helps so much to know where they are.

SPEAKER_00:

It does. It's really nice.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm all about efficiency.

SPEAKER_00:

You bet. Well, the next issue that uh occurs often um uh as a struggle or an obstacle uh to turning plant-based is just basic nutritional concerns, and there's a lot of misinformation out there. Okay. Um not the first of which we've or actually probably the first that we've always joked about. Where do you get your protein? Ask me how much protein I had at lunch today. How much protein did you have at lunch?

SPEAKER_01:

50 grams of protein.

SPEAKER_00:

50 grams of protein in one meal.

SPEAKER_01:

30 grams in my tofu, 10 grams in my rice, and 10 grams in my hemp parts.

SPEAKER_00:

Holy moly. So not a problem getting protein. Just did it. Problem solved. Yeah. So yeah, it's very easy to get protein, and that's a huge misinformation. Um, probably based on although I'm kind of talking out of the, I don't know. Anyway, talking about something I don't know really where it came from, uh, you know, but I'm guessing some um pseudoscience studies. Yeah, yeah. Right. But in fact, there was a common misconception that vegan people used to be these thin, frail people.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and that's that may that could have a point because you can be on the unhealthy side, as you know. That's right. This is why we're talking about it. You can be on the unhealthy side of of of both diets. That's right.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, uh for real. I mean, you can be vegan and be horribly unhealthy because of all the vegan junk food that's available. Yeah, right. So, so yeah. So uh, and and realistically, there are a few things um as uh plant-based eaters that we do have to pay attention to. All right. Vitamin B12 is probably the most common one. That's a super easy supplementation.

SPEAKER_01:

Most everyone is low on vitamin B12.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, so many people. Yep, that's right. Um, another uh common concern uh would be potentially like iron. Okay. Now, I will say uh I I've had zero trouble with that. If you get your Christopher's vegetables, that's right, it's tied. And I think the big deal is here, um we really need to pay attention to eating the rainbow. Yeah. I mean, if you eat a wide variety and all the colors of foods that are there are out there, you will get all the basic nutrients.

SPEAKER_01:

And if you don't know, go get your blood work done. That's right. So you've got to measure it. You've got to see where you're at with things.

SPEAKER_00:

So, in terms of supplements that I take, um, you know, and fears of deficiencies, uh, vitamin D is is up there. Now, I think this is also true for the general population, uh, because uh we get vitamin D primarily, of course, from sun exposure. And uh we have become a rather sunphobic culture. Well, and rightly so, isn't it? And rightly so. We we don't want to, we it's it's hard to find that balance between proper sun exposure for vitamin D and development of skin cancer.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, any yeah, any um skin doctor is gonna tell you be careful because it can really be a problem.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, and and then there's the the whole um media fiasco of um all these different um dietary trends, right? Like the carnivore. Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, there are unpasteurized milk. Or unpasteurized milk. Pediatrician's saying one thing I wouldn't do is give kids pasteurized milk. I'm like, oh my goodness. Really?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So yeah, the the the the the carnivore diet, there is not one scientific research study that shows anything really positive about it in terms of longevity.

SPEAKER_01:

There will be somebody who challenges you on it. And that's okay. That's just how that goes.

SPEAKER_00:

And and the reality is, um, as Dr. Clapper puts it, um uh these things are uh nutritional, um, what does he call them? Parlor tricks. Okay. That that's a great word for the yeah, because you will, in fact, switching to any of these keto, paleo, carnivore, there is a potential to lose some weight. There is a potential for a brief period of time where the numbers seem to improve. You feel better. Um, but there are zero studies for any of these that I'm aware of um that actually show benefits long term.

SPEAKER_01:

There's no way someone can be on a carnivore diet for 30 years. That's right. They wouldn't live.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, these these plans are not sustainable and ultimately they are not good for you. Right. I mean, when you take way too much fat, that fat goes somewhere. Yeah. And the fat that you don't burn, if you're planning on like on the keto diet, you're you're trying to tell your body, oh, let's just burn the fat for our calories. Well, our bodies aren't made to do that. This is an unnatural condition. And and so over time, that's going to cause deposits uh in your arteries. You're going to have more heart disease. And I think there are studies starting to come out now that are showing some of these things.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, and it might not be the place to mention it, but on Instagram, there's a page called The Carnivore Cringe. And it's like, it's real accounts of people that are sick, sick, sick. And they're like, Well, it must be the oxalates.

SPEAKER_00:

When in fact, I don't think any studies have really shown serious problems from oxalates. Now, there are a few issues that may That's a hot topic. That's a hot topic. Uh, I mean, certainly they're involved with um kidney stone production.

SPEAKER_01:

There are some people that are more pro to that are you know, they're on the histamine. That kind of tends to be something like a note, but that's a different thing.

unknown:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

So I would always uh with any questions related to any of these things, recommend um uh researching evidence-based sources, people that know the real science and not just who are not paid to do the that's right.

SPEAKER_01:

They have some kind of pocket.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01:

And uh last but not least, um, if you kind of spill that out, I mean, spell that out for people, like where would they go for that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. I mean, uh, we've got several resources that we use and trust. And and uh so um the Esslstons, uh, that family, um Dr. Caldwell Esleston and his family uh have numerous, I think, books and uh videos on YouTube, and um you know, those are excellent resources. Dr. Michael Greger, if you're interested in the science behind things, nutritionfacts.org is probably one of the best websites out there. Um and this is we'll cite every study. He will cite yeah. I mean, he looks at the science uh and looks at the studies and makes sure that was this project done correctly, is this accurate information? You know, uh yeah, it's it's an Amazing resource. Um, those are the first two that pop off in in my mind.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I mean, if people want to look up your website, it's Ozart Pediatrics and they can also put dot org. Yes, but I'm just saying on a search, they can say Ozart Pediatrics plant-based resources, and it will go to that page. Excellent.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, they don't need to so yeah, and that will give you all the things right now that I mean it's not a comprehensive list, but it's many of the the things that we have used in our journey. So last but not least, um uh one of the common concerns or complaints is wow, this it just costs too much.

SPEAKER_01:

That's the funniest one.

SPEAKER_00:

That's the funniest one. Um, because uh truly it doesn't get much cheaper than beans and rice. And beans and rice will give you probably greens. I can get up and throw some greens in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, yeah. I mean a ton.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah. Now, can you spend a lot of money doing this? Yes, there's a lot of vegan processed foods that get kind of pricey, which is not whole food plant-based, which is not whole food plant-based, right?

SPEAKER_01:

However, I will say, I love physicians committee stance on this. If you need that transitionary type food, or just like me, occasionally I will have an impossible burger. I'll just put it out there for everybody to you know give me a hard flow about. It's like, you know, it's like saying you're never gonna have junk food ever again. It's it's my version of junk food. I'm never gonna have any kind of animal products anymore, but um, they do serve a purpose. But it it is true that that's where the expense lies.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And you know, occasionally we'll get something new for our kitchen or we'll get new spices that might be, you know, we we really like to get those spices. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, it's it's pretty easy to do this. That's right.

SPEAKER_01:

People have to realize that that is something too, that's kind of something to get used to because you're gonna run into oils if you go to a restaurant.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, without a doubt. I'm not sure of hardly any chefs in this country that are aware of how to cook without oils. It's they're few and far between.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. So in conclusion, um, yeah, I mean, uh I think all of these issues that come up as difficulties to transitioning to a standard uh to a to a plant-based diet, they are real difficulties and they do require some time and and some thinking through uh on how to get around them. But the bottom line is, you know, we have basically found our three main whys as to why we do this. Okay. And for me, the very first one was just my health. I mean, my health was worth it. And when I finally figured out, oh, this is really the healthiest way, um, then I kind of dove in. And then recognizing as a second um reason for doing this uh is the environment. I mean, raising that many animals for the purposes of slaughter and feeding the country is uh providing um an impetus for destroying much of the environment and our waterways. I like to pass this statistic on that I was shocked to learn that 50% of the waterways in this country do not support aquatic life. In large part, not completely, but in large part due to runoff from large animal farms and all the fertilizers that go on them that create the algae blooms. And when the algae dies, the bacteria take over. And when the bacteria take over, the oxygen disappears.

SPEAKER_01:

We're in trouble.

SPEAKER_00:

No oxygen, no aquatic life.

SPEAKER_01:

That's that's a big problem for us.

SPEAKER_00:

It's a big problem.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, beyond the the the fish.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right. And then the last but not least is the whole animal ethics. You know, and my favorite saying about that is one look at a chicken truck really tells you all you need to know. Yeah. But the whole animal industry is fraught with unethical treatment of animals.

SPEAKER_01:

I guarantee you if you get close enough to see what it's really doing, you'll never want meat again.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep.

SPEAKER_01:

You'll never want it again.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. Well, I would like to thank everybody for tuning in and uh hope this was helpful. And we will sign off for now and catch you next time. Take care.

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Amy Keever

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