Heal with Grace

51. Finding Comfort & Connection When You Feel Alone During the Holidays

• Grace Secker / Liana Maurno • Episode 51

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In this episode of the Heal with Grace podcast, host Grace welcomes back Liana, a mind and body therapist from Elevate Therapy and Wellness, to discuss the emotional challenges the holiday season can bring, including loneliness, grief, and stress from family dynamics. They delve into how these feelings affect the nervous system and offer practical tips for managing emotions, finding meaningful connections, and setting boundaries with family. The conversation also covers the importance of acknowledging and honouring one's feelings, understanding the body's need for social connection, and finding balance in holiday traditions.

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[00:00:00] Grace Secker: Hello, and welcome back to the heal with grace podcast. I have Liana here, who is one of our mind and body therapists at Elevate Therapy and Wellness, and she's been on a few podcasts in the past, and I'm really excited to have her back today. We're going to be talking about the holidays and what all that it can bring up, meaning a mix of emotions like loneliness, grief, the stress of difficult family dynamics.

We're going to dive into how we can navigate these challenging feelings and find ways to connect with ourselves and others during the holiday season. I know that there's a lot of excitement around this time, and that's fantastic. If you feel that, and if you're listening to this, you probably. feel maybe a bit of a mix.

Maybe you have a lot of excitement around it, but you also have some grief and some loneliness or not really sure how to feel. So we're going to dive into all of that. We're going to talk about how it reacts in the nervous system or how the nervous system, can impact how we feel when it comes to loneliness and grief, and then give you some tips, tips to how to move through it, find some more peace and just know that you're not alone.

So settle in. And get cozy. And, thank you for being here, Liana. 

[00:01:17] Liana Mauro: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Grace. I'm excited to be back. It's been a while. 

[00:01:21] Grace Secker: It has been a while. And I think that these episodes are really helpful, for people to hear both of our perspectives and for us to talk through, because, you know, I can talk all day long, but it's helpful to have that person to kind of go off of.

And we share ideas and we get ideas from each other. So. Yeah, let's go ahead and jump right in and, we're going to talk specifically more about what it means to be lonely, what it means to grieve. So can you describe for us, what exactly is loneliness? 

[00:01:51] Liana Mauro: Yeah, I think it is probably helpful to just start with the definition of it and, you know, it's that distressing feeling that your social needs aren't being met either by the quantity or the quality of your social relationships.

And so really, you're wanting either more or deeper human contact, and you're not able to get that need met. and you know, the desire for meaningful connection, and what I mean by that is that desire to be seen, known, and valued. Is truly like a biological human need more and more studies are showing that we're wired for connection and, you know, at a very basic level, it's like literally how species survive and so, you know, being lonely can truly feel like a threat to your survival, which is why it can create that.

activation in your nervous system.and so I think if you have been feeling lonely, I think one thing that's really important is to recognize that maybe you're going to need to make some more effort to really like help support and reach out to people around you to help yourself with this. And so, you know, maybe think about.

the people in your life who you love, or maybe people who, you know, you care about, but you've lost touch with, and you kind of look back and wish that you hadn't, you know, reach out to these people, reach out, try to reconnect. you know, if they're in the same city of, you know, just see if you can make plans and get together.

Otherwise, you know, talking on the phone or making time to have a video chat. can really be a nice way, you know, to reconnect with people and help support yourself in this. you know, you could even like host a little holiday get together, like bring together the people you love or the people who, you know, you have like looser connections with that you want to deepen, maybe invite some neighbors.

and you know, another thing is like really trying to find something to get involved with, you know, trying to give back to your community. There's so much. going on around the holidays, like extra ways of volunteering, you know, and just all of the nonprofits that are available year round. And so those can be really nice ways to support yourself.

if you are feeling lonely and, you know, I think it's also really important to like, be very honest with yourself and, you know, not try to like smooth past the feelings of loneliness by like, well, let's solve this. And like, how can I connect? And, you know, And immediately improve this like I do think it's important to also like really make space for The pain that loneliness is right.

And give yourself that compassion that, you know, it is okay to feel this way. It's completely natural and normal. and you know, journaling I think can be a really nice way to support yourself through this. And also just making sure that you're really taking care of your basic needs, like getting enough sleep, really eating well.

and even just like allowing yourself the time to relax and, Really do things that you love and enjoy. Those are really nice ways to nurture yourself. 

[00:05:09] Grace Secker: I think that's important to even have a list of things that you can do when you're feeling that way, because especially in winter, depending on where you are, but if you are living somewhere that it gets dark pretty early, it's cold, it's hard to get outside.

It's really easy to just. be like, I'm just gonna not, you know, work over for the day and I'm just gonna sit on my couch and not go anywhere. And while sometimes that's totally fine to get cozy, not all the time because then it just perpetuates that feeling. And And then it just creates a cycle of, Oh, well, I'm lonely.

I have no one else to connect with. Right. Or maybe you can't get to the people you want to get to on the holidays. And, it can feel like, I mean, you can go down the spiral, right. Of what, what it means to not be in connection, what it means to not have friends, not have family around. And we create more meaning than actually really what is, yeah.

That's kind of what came about for me as you were talking.cause it's a weird, it's, it's hard. You can feel lonely all throughout the year. It just, this time of year seems to activate it a lot more and people. 

[00:06:20] Liana Mauro: Yeah, I agree. And especially, you know, with social media and everyone posting like their top moments and making, you know, their families or partnerships look so perfect and, ideal.

And, you know, the truth is, is that. That's not the reality for many people. and I think it is, you know, very can be a very, kind of bring loneliness to the forefront for people for sure this time of year. 

[00:06:47] Grace Secker: Yeah. And, you know, we talked about at the beginning, how, well, I mentioned at the beginning, we're talking about loneliness and grief, and sometimes they might feel like the same thing.

and they can definitely overlap. You can feel lonely from grief from being in grief, right? but I want to talk about that for a second, because Let's, let's separate them, but then also talk about the difference, and how they go together. So, for example, grief is, the emotional response to a loss, whether it's the loss of a loved one, a relationship, a job, a lifestyle.

It doesn't have to be actual loss of life. It can be, you know, the loss of any, anything really that has meant a lot to you. it could be you move to a different state or a different country and you're grieving the life that you lived right before you moved. And that can be really lonely when you move somewhere new and maybe it's just around the holidays and you don't know anyone yet and you're feeling lonely, but you're also grieving what was in the past.

and so, you know, especially for people, those who have lost family members or friends, whoever, or maybe you've lost a relationship and the holidays are about connection and you don't have that connection and that grief can be super activated during this time, which creates that loneliness. So I also, by the way, I also, put out an episode earlier this year around grief and the nervous system.

So I'm going to link that below and then talk a little bit more about it. But really what happens is grief creates that distance within your nervous system, that dysregulation from being connected to others. Like Liana mentioned, like you said, You know, we're wired for connection. So when we lose someone that's close to us that we've felt connected to, maybe it's felt really safe around, we lose that and we have no way of getting it back.

It's a literal break and your body, it's a, it's a disconnection that you can never get again. And that grief is difficult to create and can create anxiety. It can create that feeling of. Or thought of like, what is life then, you know, you start thinking kind of existentially or you start denying it.

There's all different types of phases, that you can go to or go through. And it's very pronounced or can be very pronounced during the holidays, which makes sense. Right. maybe you lost someone on the holidays or around this time period, you know, someone close to you. And so what kind of piggybacking off of what you said is that.

during this time, it can be really important to lean in and acknowledge those feelings. Give to yourself the compassion that you need to move through it and really remember that you don't need to make any kind of meaning out of it. Grief is grief and it is, it can be weird and it can take weird turns and it can pop up in the most unexpected situations.

where you just have no idea why it's there, but it's there and that's totally normal. All of these things are so, so, so normal. And so that's what I think we really want to get across is that, you know, when you feel irritated or you get really frustrated or you're feeling really sad or you don't want to leave the house, those are normal things to feel when you're grieving.

They're normal things to feel when you're lonely and you don't feel like you're connected to other people.yeah. Is there anything else that you want to say around this? 

[00:10:24] Liana Mauro: Yeah, I love everything you said and I, I think another thing that can be nice to do around the holidays if you are grieving is creating like some kind of ritual that helps you, especially if it's after a death, is creating some type of ritual of, you know, was there something that, you know, the two of you like to do for the holidays or something that you can kind of like, bring in as a symbol or, you know, anything at all.

but I think creating rituals can be a way of like, just like, Can be really meaningful, to help you kind of bridge that loss, a little bit to help you feel more connected during this time. 

[00:11:10] Grace Secker: Yeah, because we don't want to deny it, right? We don't, you don't want to push it away or try to like put it in a box and say, okay, I'm just not going to think about them because, well, that doesn't really work, to be honest.

It might for a little bit. but it'll always be there. And so in order to honor that person, honor that grief, yeah. Creating rituals, doing something like what you said, or, you know, the holidays are around a lot of food. What, what are their favorite foods? You know, make something or buy something that was their favorite, right?

something meaningful, do something that you both like to do together. and. There's one thing else I'll say on this too, if it's, especially if it's a family member or a partner and the people around you want to ignore it, or they don't want to talk about it because they don't feel comfortable, it can be hard.

I get to, to do some of these things, but that doesn't mean you don't get to do them. You can still honor, you can still create rituals, even if the people around you are having a hard time talking about it.and let it be okay to do these things and then move on. Go to that holiday party and have a blast, have fun, right?

Do whatever it is that you enjoy as well. It doesn't have to be all about them. There's a balance. I was just talking to a client about this who lost her best friend and, it wasn't specifically on the holidays, but she's trying to understand how to move on, but also doesn't want to forget her and doesn't know how to do that necessarily.

And so, you know, what we talked about is that it's. There's no one right way or wrong way to do it. It's just, how can you find that balance? Yeah. Go to dinner with your friend group. That's what she was going to do that night, but then tomorrow focus on you, you know, do the next best thing that you want to do for yourself.

take that. She lives in New York city and, lives very close to where her friend lived and she was like, I don't want to walk past that building. And I'm like, that's fine. Go the other way. Okay. You know, do things that are okay to move on from. It's totally okay. You're not going to lose her. You're not going to lose them.

so I just, I'll acknowledge it's hard to find that balance, but it's totally doable. And again, there's no right or wrong. It's whatever works best for you. And sometimes it takes a little trial and error. So we mentioned a little bit of co regulation. Right. of we're wired to connect. Let's talk, let's talk a little bit more about that because I really want us to understand when we're feeling lonely, when we're feeling grief, it's not just an emotional response, it's not just a mental health issue.

your body's literally going through a separation. It's they call it a heartbreak for a reason. Your heart hurts, that space where your heart is, is. not the same because you are grieving. And so you might even feel things like a heart rate increase. You might feel tightness in your chest or you might have trouble sleeping because it's grief and it's uncomfortable and it triggers, literally triggers a stress response in your body.

And so when you feel disconnected from others or when you're grieving, your nervous system goes into kind of a survival mode. May feel anxious, disconnected. and again, this is completely natural, but the important thing is, is that we learn to help ourselves through it because your, our bodies are wired for connection.

And what we mean by that, I've said that you've said that I've said it too many times.what that means is that, so think about it this way. We are as human beings. Like, as you as a person, you are not meant to go off and live by yourself in the woods. People sure do it. Not many people, but there's a reason for that.

We're meant to be in community, to live in community, to live together, to be in relationship and to help each other out and move through life together. Right? So in primal days, like, One person handled the, you know, hunting for the day. One person handled, whatever you did in the home to make it, you know, okay.

For that person coming back, you, you had to do that to survive together. And although obviously our lives are different now we're in the modern age, we still need that on a connection level. And so that's what we mean by wide for connection.so. In order to help ourselves soothe during that survival time, it's helpful to learn some nervous system regulation tools that, that we've talked about here before, but we'll go through a little bit.

do you have a few things to mention about that, Liana? 

[00:15:59] Liana Mauro: About regulating your nervous system? 

[00:16:01] Grace Secker: Yeah, like working through that on a level knowing that grief is grief, and it's going to be there, but it is creating that stress response. So how can we soothe during, during those times? 

[00:16:15] Liana Mauro: Yeah, you know, I think this is true many times, when learning how to really care for yourself.

But I, I think some of it is kind of playing with different things to see what is really soothing for you. you know, and so various things comes to mind, you know, like taking a walk or, journaling or, you know, if you're really finding yourself in a, severe fight flight response, like always taking it back to the breath.

I think that's the best place to start because it's the quickest way to bring that down regulation to your system. and so it doesn't have to be complicated, like just allowing your exhales to be longer than your inhales is, enough for your system to go into the relaxation response. and I think even just things very simple things like putting your hand on your heart, which tell it activates the same area of your brain.

as if somebody were hugging you. So it's like a really sweet thing to do for yourself. it's kind of like giving yourself a hug. you can also, you know, like gently rub your legs or rub your arms. you know, things like that can be like sweet ways to. Bring in some nurturing to yourself. 

[00:17:33] Grace Secker: Yeah. And also I'll add to that, feel your feelings.

I mean,How do I want to say this? You might have heard that term probably a million times, feel the feels. but what it really means is when the feelings start to come, when that hit of grief or loneliness just randomly happens and you don't know where it came from, the best thing you can do for yourself, if you have the time and space, you know, if you could even just go to the bathroom for a minute or something like that, is to be able to let it come, Let the sadness come, let the frustration come, let the anger come, and really separate those feelings from the why am I feeling this way?

Why is this happening to me? I can't believe this is happening. Oh my gosh. Why? What's going on? Stop it. This is not okay. All of those thoughts that happen. Consciously or unconsciously, you might not fully be aware of them, but that's what it means to feel. We have to separate the judgment from the feeling.

That's how we move through. And that's how grief moves through. That's how loneliness will move through because when you can feel without the judgment, it doesn't have to get stuck essentially. 

[00:18:48] Liana Mauro: Yeah. And something I'd like to add to that is. You know, it's also very normal, in grief. And I think even if you're feeling like very, deeply lonely, to have a fear response.

and I know that that is like anxiety is fear, but I, it's almost like a step beyond like, where you may find yourself doing things like checking the locks multiple times or being scared in your home when like maybe before you weren't, and there's nothing that's happened that would. be causing this to come up in you.

And that's really, really normal. And so I just want to bring that up if anybody's experiencing that, because it can be very disconcerting and surprising. And I think if you think about it again from that, you know, biologically, we are designed for connection and if we're not in that connection or if we've lost somebody, It's that it brings the reality of death, which we all know is.

and inevitable, right? But it brings it much more to the forefront of our minds, which is scary. It can be really scary. And also the idea that, you know, anyone can be gone, unexpectedly, right? And that is, that is scary. and so it's very natural for, for that to come up. And so I just wanted to touch on that because I think that that can, you know, surprise a lot of people when they are, you know, deeply lonely or grieving and having that response.

[00:20:22] Grace Secker: Thank you for saying that, because yes, very, very true. You're going to start questioning things a little bit more, probably just life in general. You might start bringing up some questions. when, if it is a death, the death is very close to you. or even if it is a huge life change, right? whether that is a loss of a relationship, a divorce, a move.

and it flips your life upside down and you start to look at things differently and question what you're doing and question life. And yes, exactly. Thank you for saying that very normal. and so from there, we don't, you don't need to figure it out or fix it. Just know that it's okay to think those things, journal them down, talk to someone that feels safe.

That's another thing I was going to say, because we are wired for connection. We do need those safe. people that we can talk to, that we can feel, or just express how weird this is, or frustrating, or angry, or that you are fearful about X, Y, and Z. and what I mean by safe people is people you know that you can talk to where you feel like a safety in your body when you're talking to them.

You feel a little bit of an exhale. you know that you probably won't get judged. Or, you know, they may not push their advice on you where they can listen. They can listen to you, and maybe, sure, giving some advice here and there or reflecting back if it's okay to you, but people that you can feel safe with in those ways, is very, very important.

And with that, yes, it's important to talk to people about it, but it's also important to choose who you talk to and who you don't talk to. There might be some people that are not great to talk to about it. One, because they don't really know how to hold that. They don't know how to respond to you, which might make you feel a little worse.

and so just start to think about that. Think about the people around you. who can you go to? Maybe it's one person that you feel like you can open up and be a little more vulnerable to, even if it feels uncomfortable, because to have that safe connected space helps your nervous system relax.

[00:22:36] Liana Mauro: Yeah, and, you know, especially because we are talking about loneliness, I also want to add, you know, this is a really important thing to have, but I also want to acknowledge that I recognize that not everybody does have this, and maybe you haven't, you know, even learned how to create safe relationships.

And so, or know what it feels like to feel safe with another person. And so I think, you know, first of all, just give yourself grace for where you are because, your, your nervous system is that way for a reason. you've learned these relational dynamics or that connection isn't safe. probably at an early age.

And You know, you, but you can make the decision to learn what a safe, supportive relationship looks like, and begin noticing, and creating safety within yourself and begin seeking out building relationships with people who Do you feel safe for you? 

[00:23:40] Grace Secker: Yeah. Thank you for acknowledging that. That's very, very important because yeah, you may not know exactly what that means or have that availability.

but yeah, this is probably your time to start thinking about it and leaning into, okay, where could I be? Build this community or safe relationships, which I think actually could go back to what you first mentioned around, how to cope with some loneliness, maybe go join, something in the community, right?

Start volunteering, go have a, a service that you provide or, a class that you go to or something like that and slowly start getting into it, and seeing where it goes. So, yeah. Okay.

So, we also wanted to talk to you about how to handle when you're feeling this way around family.and how we, how we go into the holidays knowing that family, Activates us. It just is right. There's a lot of talk around family and the holidays and how stressful it can be. And, how therapists, workloads go up after the holidays because people need help and support.

Right? and it's, it can be, it can be, we can joke about it because it's funny, but there's a reason for that. I mean, we get activated the most around our family because that's where our core room core wounds come from. Yeah. So even just knowing that, I want that to give you some validation. You're not crazy.

You're not reverting back to how you were. You're not, losing all efforts you have to help yourself when you're around your family and you react how you did when you were 10 years old or 15, like it is. It is something that I think a lot of us struggle with for a long time. It gets better. It can totally get better.

It's just that, yeah. How could they not be your strongest activators? Right. so just give yourself a little grace in that. And then, let's, let's just talk about that. And I know Liana, you have some tips for, for people around that too. So I'll kind of get that over to you. 

[00:25:52] Liana Mauro: Yeah, I think, you know, you know, if you have.

family dynamics that create dysregulation in you, you know, if you're triggered when you're around your family. And so if you are going home, I think it can be really, really helpful to prepare, right? Like, you know, you know what those dynamics are. And so maybe think about, What is like a recurring conversation that comes up or what's a recurring dynamic?

So that you can kind of think about okay. How do I want to respond to this statement? How do I want to engage in this dynamic if it comes up and you know at the kind of quote unquote like easier end you're going to be able to you know stay in that conversation and dialogue about it because you You know, put some thought into it and are able to bring some mindfulness into the Situation at the extreme end of it, you might feel like you never, like, ever want to come home again for the holidays.

and so there's a huge range and reactions that your system can go through in these kind of triggering environments. and so I think that for the ones that you really are getting more activated, and it's very hard, even when you've planned in advance to, you know, Like stay in your prefrontal cortex and think about what are the things that you want to say?

How do you want to be? I think it's really important if you're not already to begin practicing nervous regulation skills, before you go home. so that your system can really get used to, and you get in the habit of like, okay, so if you're feeling anxious or you're in a difficult conversation, you are already training your body to Regulate itself.

and so that's going to be like your go to, because when we're not in a regulated state, we're literally not able to access our rational brain, our rational brain. So you can't engage in that difficult dialogue. You can't, if you feel like you're just going to break down in tears mid conversation or run out the room, like, Those things are much more likely to happen because if you haven't learned how to, you know, soothe the discomfort that comes up.

and so that's a really important thing to begin learning. And then once you're, you know, in a distressing situation, I think it's, I like to think about these things on like a scale of one to ten. And so 1 is completely calm. 10 is like full blown panic attack, breaking down in tears, running out the door kind of a thing.

and so you want to begin noticing kind of where you are on that scale. And so if the regular dynamic comes up and you're kind of at like a 3 or 4 and you can regulate yourself, you know, You can regulate yourself in the moment and probably walk through that conversation. But if you notice that your anxiety level starts going up to like a five or a six, and you're not able to bring it down, and it kind of keeps going up, going up, well, first of all, I do want to say, because I think that there can be a lot of judgment around, you know, feeling these things, and, you know, above all, your body is always trying to help you.

Right. And so this feels very unsafe in your body, but, you know, at a very core level, this is your body trying to help you bring you, like, seek safety for yourself. And so there's something about this situation that doesn't feel safe. And so it's just trying to help you. And so when you can kind of look at it also in that way, that in and of itself can be regulating because it takes away the fear and kind of judgment of, like, what is going on in my body right now?

but if we go back to that scale, I think it's really important to kind of give yourself permission. you know, around that five to six place to remove yourself from the situation. that can be as simple as going to the bathroom for a couple of minutes, slashing water on your face or running water over your cold water over your wrists.

taking some deep breaths, getting yourself settled before you go back to be with your family. it could maybe mean taking a walk if you feel a little like you need a little more movement. if you anticipate, depending on how big of, dynamics occur, you know, like if big blow ups tend to happen in your family, for example, I do think it's also important to maybe have a conversation with your family in advance.

That like, Hey, if X, Y, Z happens, I'm going to take a walk. I don't want you guys to be surprised if I'm like, all right, guys, I'm, I'm going to just take a walk around the block. and you can explain why. Right. but that way nobody's surprised. And, you know, frankly, I, if things are depending on how bad they can get, I also think it's very appropriate.

to say if things get too bad that you're going to leave, or maybe you're just going to go for the day. but again, I think that communicating it in advance can be helpful, to mitigate any kind of reactions that could come up, as a result of you doing what you need to do to take care of yourself.

[00:31:05] Grace Secker: I'm also going to add to that too, because, you know, what you're really talking about are boundaries. Right. With your emotional state, your physical state, and man, I mean, we can do a whole other episode on boundaries. but I just wanted to add that. Yeah. When you do that, if you explain what you're doing or just say you're going to go for a walk or whatever it is, just remember that people might not understand it.

There may be people that don't respect it, or may say, why? Why do you have to do that? You know, judgmental response, something along those lines. But that means nothing about you. You don't have to take care of that. You don't have to take responsibility for that. You don't have to over explain yourself.

And yeah, it might feel uncomfortable. It might feel like, ooh. Especially You are one of our people pleasers out there. You might feel like you need to over explain or, you know, crawl into a shell if that happens. It's okay to feel uncomfortable when you set boundaries. It's actually very normal and you probably will.

So yeah, just, just remember it, it might feel a little weird and people may not understand it. but just keep doing you keep, keep making it happen. Cause you do get to choose that for yourself, even if that's not the norm in your family. 

[00:32:19] Liana Mauro: Thank you for saying that. 

[00:32:20] Grace Secker: Yeah. When it comes to helping yourself during the holidays with family, And feeling triggered and trying to set boundaries, trying to help yourself soothe, just know to not going to be perfect at it. It might feel a little messy or weird. but again, I, I want to highlight and explain this 1 point, that you are not responsible for other people's reactions.

You are not responsible for other people's feelings. When you set a boundary, when Aunt Jane wants to talk about her weight or her diet or ask you about what you're doing for your diet or your exercise plan, and you don't want to talk about it because you've learned that's not a healthy thing to talk about for yourself, you get to say, you know what, I'm not actually Comfortable talking about that.

And then you get to switch the subject or you don't even say that and you just switch the subject, right? But you don't and then they feel if she starts to feel or she has some kind of reaction You don't have to take responsibility for that action. You don't have to backpedal. You don't have to over explain like I said, I think that's something a lot of us have learned is to kind of like manage the emotions in the room.

Especially if you are a little bit more intuitive, you are the people pleaser. You have that your intuitive antennas are up and always kind of understand the pulse of the room. You don't have to do that all the time. And actually I think it's really helpful to learn how to detach from being the manager of the energy of the room because it's not your responsibility.

It's really, really not. And. I think it's always a work in progress. I know it is for me. but it can be really relieving actually, when you let yourself off the hook and you're like, Oh, I don't, yeah, I don't need to manage that. Or I don't, you know, they might place their responsibility on you to manage their emotions, but you don't have to.

which also goes along with, I think you mentioned, you know, you can go for the day maybe instead of the weekend or the week or something like that. Yeah. You get to make those choices and. I understand saying that is easier said than done. I just, I have to say it. I acknowledge it. I get it.there's probably guilt placed on you passively or non passively.

Again, you get to choose that though. You get to choose your holiday experience as much as possible.it can be a hard transition to do when you've had this norm of how you operate during the holidays, how many days you spend, where you spend it. You know, for however many years and you're the one changing it up can be hard, but it can also be really empowering.

And so if you're thinking about transitioning, how you spend the holidays or how much time you spend, just like. Know that if that thought has been there and every time you go, you're dreading or you're resenting it. It's the time. It's time to look at it. Time to look at how you spend your time.

Anything to add to that? You were kind of nodding. 

[00:35:34] Liana Mauro: No, I just 

[00:35:35] Grace Secker: really, I really disagree with everything you just said. Yeah. Yeah. I'll say this one last thing about it, that what you do one year doesn't mean you have to do it every single year. So maybe this year you're thinking, or maybe next year you're thinking, you know what?

It's time. I got to do this a little differently. Try something out. Maybe it is. You go for less time. Maybe it is. You stay somewhere else other than the house full of a bunch of people. Or, yeah, you, you try something else, right. And you just see how it goes. It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be what you do the rest of your life.

It's just something you're trying out. maybe you decide not to go and then you realize you have a great time or you don't go and you're like, Hmm, no, that doesn't work either. Right? Just one year is one year. I think that we get really caught up in, I don't know, I almost, I thought about this this year of there's so much emphasis placed on this is the time we do this, right?

But it happens every year. Why can't we switch it up sometimes? So something to mull over, something to think about for yourself. I've been thinking about it. So,I hope that you're able to as well, if you need to.

Okay. I hope this was helpful. I know that, you know, there can be a lot of feels and, trying to, and navigation through all of this, right? so take your time, give yourself all the grace, all the compassion, all the flexibility, it's like the, Biggest part of all of this. and thanks Liana for talking through this with me.

[00:37:19] Liana Mauro: Yeah. Thank you so much for inviting me. Anything else to add as we wrap up? 

[00:37:24] Grace Secker: No, I think that, I think we got it. All right. Stay tuned and we will see you next time.