Welcome to Humanity: Exploring Spirituality, Mental Health, AI, and Creative Potential. A Conversation with Dr. Fred Moss (Epi. #209)

In this episode, Shilpa hosts Dr. Moss, diving deep into his extensive journey as a healer and psychiatrist. Dr. Moss discusses his unconventional path from early work in nursing homes and with adolescent boys, to renouncing traditional psychiatry due to its reliance on medication. He emphasizes the profound healing potential of genuine human connection and authentic communication. The conversation also touches on the challenges posed by modern psychiatry, the transformative nature of connecting with others, and the role of artificial intelligence in today's world. Despite the fears surrounding AI and global instability, Dr. Moss advocates for love, authenticity, and seeing humanity in all experiences.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:58 Dr. Moss's Early Life and Career Beginnings
02:33 Discovering Communication and Psychiatry
05:05 Challenges in Psychiatry and Personal Struggles
09:27 Transition to Coaching and New Perspectives
12:41 The Concept of Authenticity and Healing
22:02 Welcome to Humanity and AI
30:46 Final Thoughts and Future Conversations

Guest Bio:

Dr. Fred Moss is a pioneering psychiatrist, mental health advocate, and the founder of Welcome to Humanity, a movement dedicated to transforming mental health through authentic self-expression and human connection. With over 40 years of experience, Dr. Fred challenges traditional psychiatry by emphasizing holistic healing, creativity, and true voice discovery over medication and diagnosis.

He is the author of Creative 8: Healing Through Creativity & Self-Expression and Find Your True Voice!, and has been featured on over 200 podcasts, sharing his revolutionary approach to mental well-being. Through his True Voice Course, coaching, and speaking engagements, he empowers individuals to embrace their authentic selves and reclaim their mental health.

Learn more at welcometohumanity.net

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Transcript

[00:00:00] shilpa: Welcome, Dr. Moss. I am so honored we were able to finally connect. 

[00:00:08] dr. moss: It's great to be here. Thanks for having me on, Shilpa. I'm really looking forward to this conversation. 

[00:00:13] shilpa: Yes, absolutely. And before I hit record, I was sharing how, um, profoundly touched I am by the humanity of your work. I mean, you've truly gone to places where, I think I read, even just working with a variety of personas, in nursing homes to, I think, early parts of your career was, Working with, um, adolescent boys.

[00:00:40] shilpa: So you seem like you've truly understood the heart of these different souls. And I'd love to have you give us a quick synopsis of your journey, and then maybe we can touch on AI and authentic voice. 

[00:00:56] dr. moss: Okay, sounds good. So, uh, let's see a [00:01:00] quick synopsis of the 67 years goes like this. Um, I was, uh, I was born into a family as a born healer and the family was in chaos and disarray and I arrived in order to bring some form of peace and joy into that family.

[00:01:15] dr. moss: I had two brothers. Uh, 10 and 14 years older than me and my parents. And you can imagine there was a fair amount of, you know, disarray and chaos. And, um, the idea was that I would come and, you know, I think that they everyone was sort of welcoming me that maybe I would be the The pin that punctured the bubble and, uh, I did a pretty good job.

[00:01:37] dr. moss: I was a bundle of joy for a few years and, um, and I'm not sure I've been a bundle of joy the whole ride, but at least early on. And, uh, I was fully right, fully enchanted with the whole idea of what I'll now call communication. I remember watching my brothers and my parents speak. Um, my sister was born after me, um, and I was her protector.

[00:01:57] dr. moss: And the idea was that, [00:02:00] you know, maybe someday I would learn how to communicate. And because it was very clear to me that that's where the action was. And, um, well, you know, I, I communicated. I was, I was pretty precocious. My brothers taught me a lot of things that most kids didn't know. By the time I was kindergarten, I knew how to add and subtract.

[00:02:18] dr. moss: I knew how to read. I knew a little bit about the world and. Sex and drugs and rock and roll, for instance. And, um, you know, I talked a lot. Uh, I was, uh, uh, there's no elementary school that forgot having Fred as a student for sure. And, um, you know, we fast forward a little bit. I wanted to learn how to communicate and it wasn't happening in the formal school setting.

[00:02:41] dr. moss: So I waited and waited. Junior high was worse than high, uh, elementary school. High school was worse than junior high. And it was like, okay, maybe people learn in college. So I went to college. Yeah. at the University of Michigan. And, uh, I was, you know, I was, I got in based on my [00:03:00] math scores primarily. And so I was in engineering school and that wasn't going to work for me.

[00:03:05] dr. moss: It wasn't enough communication actually. Um, so I left and, uh, dropped out and came back out to Berkeley, California from Detroit, um, on a bus to figure out what my life was about. And, uh, I landed there, was there for the summer. And then my. Parents and my brothers told me about this new field that was breaking in, uh, that they thought I had an aptitude for.

[00:03:27] dr. moss: And you might have heard of the field. It was called computers. And, um, I was like, okay, let's go. You know, I don't know what a computer is, but I do know there's one at the University of Michigan. So back, we went to the Michigan and I re enrolled and re registered and I started in computer science. I lasted very, maybe a term.

[00:03:47] dr. moss: I'm thinking it might be two terms. And then I dropped out again because that certainly wasn't going to work to do batch jobs and punch cards the rest of my life. And it is like, no, no, no, that's not what you think. So back to California, I went [00:04:00] and, um, I promised my family that I would never, uh, Never go back to college under any circumstances, um, much like our friend Steve Jobs who we were just talking about.

[00:04:10] dr. moss: So, the idea was that, you know, you don't learn anything, um, in college that, uh, is important in the real world. So, my parents this time, my mom said you have to get a job, she got me an application for a civil service job in Michigan where I was a resident. And so back to Michigan, I went this time to actually get a job as a child care worker at a state hospital for adolescent boys.

[00:04:34] dr. moss: And these kids, you know, I thought I would only last three weeks for the orientation, but these kids who are only like six or seven years younger than me, um, were my first example of communicating and getting, uh, reimbursed for it. Like the idea was that in that communication with these children, we could create healing.

[00:04:50] dr. moss: And we did create plenty of healing between me and them, for them, for me, for the room, you know, for the ward, for the whole facility, um, and it was very clear to me [00:05:00] that communication had deep and honest, profound, uh, healing qualities. Um, I hated what was happening in psychiatry and, you know, Prozac. Uh, had not yet been, um, introduced to the world, uh, but I could tell that the medicines was where we were headed and that they weren't doing very, um, very much good for, uh, our people.

[00:05:20] dr. moss: Um, you know, Jimmy and Johnny would get into a tussle or Tony would be up too late and. I didn't like the way psychiatry was going because the psychiatrist, we would call them and they would speak to Jimmy or Johnny for maybe like three seconds, speak to us for like seven seconds, and then go in a nursing station right in order and then we'd have to go retrieve the child and hold them down in the quiet room and jam them full of some injectable cocktail.

[00:05:45] dr. moss: Now, the problem here is that some people shake their head like you just did like that was the past. Actually, that has happened several hundred times this morning. Don't fool yourself, it's not any, it's not happening less [00:06:00] often now than it was 40 years ago. Several hundred times around this country, that exact thing has happened.

[00:06:08] dr. moss: Okay, so I didn't like that. I was I found that to be barbaric and unacceptable. And the reason I went back into psychiatry, the reason I went back to school one more time anyways, was the idea that I was going to be a psychiatrist so that I could bring communication back into this industry. It was very clear that we were losing our hold there.

[00:06:26] dr. moss: So I finished off my undergraduate school, downtown Detroit and Wayne state. And then I got accepted at medical school. My brother was already a psychiatrist, the one 14 years older than me. So I had, you know, big shoes to fill and, uh, I finished medical school. And before too long, I'm a resident. And then before too long, I'm a child and adolescent fellowship and, uh, graduated all of that.

[00:06:48] dr. moss: And now I had a rip roaring practice down in Cincinnati, man. I was there for about, I don't know, about 18 or 19 years. Um, and, um, [00:07:00] you know, I really had a storied career. I had jobs in every single specialty known to Western medicine, psychiatry and most of them very, very high up leadership role. So I did get to see how things were done in all of humanity, all age groups, all demographics, all nationalities, all, all cultures, um, and all conditions, all, you know, from very serious conditions to the worried.

[00:07:25] dr. moss: Well, and, uh, yeah. I, I, I sort of like the field except, you know, Prozac got an issue introduced in 87 and that changed everything in the basic paradigm of what psychiatry was and all of a sudden people were talking about biological psychiatry and chemical imbalances. And I didn't see that the same way because I had been there during the transformation and transition from where it was to where it is now become.

[00:07:50] dr. moss: So I didn't, I couldn't buy it full hook, line and sinker, but you know, I was typecast after all, I'm a psychiatrist. And when you get out of medical school and you take [00:08:00] jobs, that's what they want you to do is to diagnose and to medicate and diagnose and to medicate, diagnose and medicate. And I did that over a hundred thousand prescriptions in my lifetime and over 30, 000 patients since that time, when I entered, uh, when I became a doctor.

[00:08:15] dr. moss: Um, but I've been fighting myself the whole time. It's a duplicity that's inherent here. I was, Uh, on the one hand, I did not believe that diagnoses or medications were first line or maybe ever to be used. It was much more important to me to treat people like they were and with the honest and goodness, honest to goodness, full scale respect of another human soul there.

[00:08:36] dr. moss: And this is what I always intended to do, although it wasn't really often promoted inside of the psychiatric field. So I did what I could. I quit medicine a couple of times when I could no longer do what was being asked of me, and I would come back realizing that I had a gift or that I needed to serve, or I needed to be, uh, uh, of the people and I'd take another job and get going.

[00:08:58] dr. moss: I have a pretty remarkable [00:09:00] CV. I think you reviewed it. It's pretty incredible. Um, and I've had a lot of jobs. I've, I've done a lot of things. Most of them was really just looking for the place that would allow me to be me. Um, there wasn't a lot of places that were that way. You know, they didn't want me to be me.

[00:09:16] dr. moss: They wanted me to look like me and be them. Cause that, that's what they wanted. And that's what, you know, in the end, the rubber would hit the road and there would be a disconnect. Um, so that happened a lot of times. And then I, you know, as my career, you know, in 2006, I did something pretty special, which was, I didn't know it was special at the time.

[00:09:35] dr. moss: I knew it was against the grain, but not that special. And that was, um, I started taking my clients off of medication altogether, and they got better, reliably better, way better, profoundly better, and predictably better. Like, it was just the way it was. And not only did they get better, but frequently they got so well that their condition would disappear.

[00:09:56] dr. moss: What they thought they were being treated for was no longer there. So over [00:10:00] time, I've made the conclusion that these medicines frequently induce, increase, perpetuate, or actually cause the symptoms they're marketed to treat. Now, this was a profound statement, of course, and I was really angry about it.

[00:10:13] dr. moss: Initially, I was like, Oh, you need to stop medicating children. You need to stop medicating your friends and your parents. He's like, Oh my God, please don't do that anymore. But violence doesn't work as a way of, um, communicating. And, um, you know, we know that from the man that's over your shoulder there in Pramahansa Yogananda, violence is not the way to get this done.

[00:10:32] dr. moss: And so I had to learn how to, like, cool down and accept the world for what it was and then comment from a place of listenability. And this is what I've done in the second half of my career. And later on, creating a coaching program rather than even psychiatry. Once I say I'm a psychiatrist, I'm, you know, earmarked to be a diagnostician and a psychopharmacologist.

[00:10:54] dr. moss: Although I know how to do that with the best of them, I've learned, I've never been aligned. Every [00:11:00] prescription I wrote has been a kind of a soul sacrifice, has been a shot, you know, at my heart, a heartache. And so I've lived this life for like that for a long time. And now, As a coach, as a transformational coach, a restorative coach, I call myself.

[00:11:15] dr. moss: I, uh, um, take on the fun moniker called the UN Doctor, and a friend of mine gave me that and gave me that. And basically what I do is I undiagnosed UNM medicate and then indoctrinate my clients, meaning I invite them and direct them to not come into the psychiatric industrial complex at all. Please don't, please don't I stand at the front door and say, don't come in here.

[00:11:41] dr. moss: And that's the best I can do. Now, the truth is I still have a conventional job and, you know, it's, uh, you know, pays my, pays my bills and stuff. And, uh, I have an out, you know, it's mostly supplemental, my coaching. However, the job I have does allow me to. I don't know. Play with [00:12:00] my elbows out, but not quite my wing spread.

[00:12:02] dr. moss: That's what I like to say. And, uh, you know, so I have that. I still, I still am licensed in California. I'm still a psychiatrist and I, now I have the viewpoint and after my books and, you know, I, I've been on, I don't know, 250 podcasts or so I've had my own podcast with 300, um, 300 drops in there. And, you know, I get out there and speak my truth and this is the best I can do.

[00:12:25] dr. moss: And, um, so as a coach, as a podcaster, as a keynote speaker, as a writer, uh, this is, you know, this is, this is what I get to do. Uh, so, um, yeah. 

[00:12:41] shilpa: So what I found fascinating in the beginning, you had a deep clarity of being a healer. And that can be so esoteric in nature because what does it mean to heal? What does it mean to even, why do we need to heal?

[00:12:58] shilpa: How did you [00:13:00] reconcile that in a world that Is so let's say, um, it's, it's a, for lack of a better expression, because my, my background is computer science. It's a very binary world when we live in the Western society where what, like you said, the, the field prescribed things, Medicaid, and you have this understanding this inner compass.

[00:13:26] shilpa: How did you reconcile those emotions to become who you are now? 

[00:13:33] dr. moss: Okay, well, I think that, you know, we live in a world that needs a lot of healing and ultimately the only reconciliation I have is to clean up the stuff that's in the way of you being authentic and then go out there and communicate effectively with every other human being you can, no matter what they think about anything, no matter what they think about.

[00:13:51] dr. moss: I don't care what they what you think about that. And I don't care what you think about that. And I definitely don't care what you think about that. And I definitely Definitely don't care what you [00:14:00] think about that. Here's what I know, you're a soul here. Doing your very best to do, like, make sense of this insensible world.

[00:14:08] dr. moss: Make some, um, you know, it's create some stability or some purpose in a world that is in full scale chaos and disarray like it's always been by the way. Um, and it's, uh. It's always been that. I mean, you just have to ask the Buddha or asked, um, ask Yogananda. You're going to see that it's there's never been a time where the world wasn't in maximum chaos.

[00:14:30] dr. moss: So we think we always think in whatever world we're living in, that we're in the most chaos of all time. And that maybe that's true. It might have, you know, it might have gotten more chaotic, but it doesn't matter. And it's been maximally chaotic since the beginning of human, um, um, The human arrival. And so how can you make sense of it?

[00:14:48] dr. moss: The only way you can make sense is realizing that healing is the goal and and the source of healing of all conditions of all types and all specialties is a human connection. [00:15:00] 

[00:15:00] shilpa: And when you said the word. Authentic. I also understood and recognized that you honed in on the term soul, and that to me is very vital because authenticity and soul are, I think, synonymous.

[00:15:19] dr. moss: Yeah, I think, you know, that's a good point. There is something, there is a core value, a core central, authentic, genuine, honest self that we walk around with. And that's the value of like, you know, you can recognize that value because it's really been with you since you were like, A child, you know, it's it's here.

[00:15:36] dr. moss: It's that you you may remember anything of being a child, right? And one of the things that a mentor made me aware of a few years ago that I think it's kind of fun and most people haven't looked at is Do you know that there's no cell in your body that was there when you were a child? Every one of your cells has turned [00:16:00] over.

[00:16:00] dr. moss: There are zero cells in your body that were there when you were a child. With that said, how do you remember anything? What's remembering your mind is not the same mind. It was, and yet there is this thing, this thread that we will call a soul. If you will, it can call it a lot of things. Um, a core center, you know, core center or, um, You know, it's just a core if you'd like.

[00:16:32] dr. moss: Um, and, uh, but when we start realizing that this physical self that we think was there when we were kids, it was not there. There's none of this, none of this zero cells of this were alive then. So we started looking at, yeah, there's soul sacrifice or there's heart pain, you know, there's heartache and. Um, and, uh, you know, some of the things we do are misaligned with our core self, and that causes a lot of dis ease.

[00:16:58] dr. moss: And we know disease is, [00:17:00] is something that we can heal by connecting with another person. Um, so when we really look at disease, what most people have, and they have diseases, they have something that is. that they see as being, um, you know, uh, uh, restricted to their own self. But the truth is we all can relate.

[00:17:21] dr. moss: And when we connect with another person, we get something, this magical explosion of healing that takes place upon that connection. Now I've worked in some prisons. I've worked in some jails. I've worked in many inpatient units and like you said, nursing homes and orphanages and homeless shelters and. You know, methadone clinics and rehab centers and partial hospital programs and, you know, all of those places.

[00:17:44] dr. moss: And what I can tell you is one of the universal truth is when I'm able to connect with anybody, whether they be staff or, um, or patients or clients or customers. Uh, there's a terrific explosion of healing that takes place at that second. We don't need [00:18:00] any, don't need to do it for months or years at a time.

[00:18:02] dr. moss: It's just once someone gets heard, once someone gets gotten, once someone feels connected to and feels listened to and feels understood, um, healing at a very deep level takes place at that moment. 

[00:18:16] shilpa: That is so beautifully expressed. When I was going through your bio, I remember reading that you mentioned modalities for lack of a better expression, art communication being the meta concept, but then different modalities within that form of communication.

[00:18:35] shilpa: Um, and then you mentioned connecting with humans. I find that, um, there's a direct correlation between being able to connect with another human and that. The communication that we then can foster so that we can, um, I feel like to relate. I often use the word. It resonates or [00:19:00] relates that somehow heals us.

[00:19:04] dr. moss: Yeah, when we, um.

[00:19:09] dr. moss: You know, when, when we find that resonate. So this is really important to take us out on, uh, you know, on what is communication, what is our responsibility of communication? And so many of us over time have learned how to become inauthentic as a protective mechanism. We think it's been a valuable protective mechanism because we were traumatized or terrorized or we had some sort of experiences as we've been growing up this whole time.

[00:19:35] dr. moss: I mean, we've been growing up the whole time. Um, and we have these experiences and then we protect ourselves by making sure that we'll never have that experience again by changing us. So we become inauthentic. We get out of line and then we continue to be out of line for the rest of our life. Um, because we don't go back and check the crack in the cement.

[00:19:54] dr. moss: So one of the things that we can do is recognize that we've been on inauthentic and then clear the stuff off that's [00:20:00] in the way of us being our truest self. So we no longer have to pretend to be someone else than, than who we are in order to protect who we are. We no longer have to do that. And once we do that, we find we get closer and closer to this resonating frequency, um, that allows for harmony with the rest of humanity.

[00:20:21] dr. moss: And I know that you know this because everybody has a little bit of at least a flyby through that when we have that connection and we can relate to other humans, not only did they heal in that presence, but we heal in that healing takes place. And it takes place when we realize that we're not alone and our capacity to communicate is infinite, we can do so with words we can do that with art, or with music with dancing with singing and drama and cooking writing can do a lot of things to communicate.

[00:20:49] dr. moss: And in fact, we communicate all the time, whether or not, um, whether or not we are speaking and expressing ourselves. So, in other words, there's a nonverbal communications as well. [00:21:00] Our body language, um, that pays an important role in communicating. And again, when we can align and get ourselves with another human.

[00:21:08] dr. moss: There is no more potent medicine out there in the world, in the world, including the big dude, including medication, including everything. Um, there's nothing more potent than connecting with another human being. And that's why we're here after all, you know, we, we call it love. Sometimes we found our partner, or maybe we.

[00:21:28] dr. moss: Love our kids or we love someone or we love our, you know, we love the connection. And, um, you know, some people have given up on pursuing connection mostly because they tried as they were, uh, as they were wired to, and they were disappointed in some way and then turned away and then decided to go live in a cave somewhere or something like that.

[00:21:48] dr. moss: But ultimately we're all interested in being some assistance to the human race, pretty sure, or at least being heard. 

[00:21:57] shilpa: I could go deeper into that in a [00:22:00] moment, but I know we're sort of limited on time. So I wanted to jump to something that I feel there's a nice polarity in this, um, question I'm about to ask, which is.

[00:22:11] shilpa: Um, I, I know you mentioned in your bio, humanity and AI or communication, AI, healing and AI. I forget how you expressed it, but then you also have this initiative called Welcome to Humanity, which I'm super curious about. Maybe you could share where AI stands because it can feel so anti human, yet I do have my perspective on that, but then what your initiative is about Welcome to Humanity, which I find so inspiring.

[00:22:41] dr. moss: Yeah. So welcome to humanity. Thanks for asking. Welcome to humanity became sort of a brand name, if you will, or became something to pursue, um, maybe about eight or 10 years ago. And the idea there was You know, every experience that we're having, whether or not they're desirable, pleasurable or horrible, whether or not [00:23:00] they're miraculous or freak, you know, freaking like, like unacceptable is a human experience that we've been blessed with while we're here.

[00:23:10] dr. moss: So like a smorgasbord table of food, some foods which are palatable and some foods which are not. And, uh, when we can really get that. Everything that's happening, all the things that are going on, including AI, including everything. There's no such thing as non non human experience. If we're experiencing it, it's a human experience.

[00:23:29] dr. moss: And the idea is welcome to humanity can become an answer to almost anyone's, um, pain at any point or almost anyone's pleasure at any point. In fact, I don't, I'm yet to find a circumstance where. Saying welcome to humanity, to somebody when they're expressing anything doesn't fit because the truth is it does fit what's going on for you as a human is humanity and, uh, AI has, you know, maybe put a little wedge in a previous way of thinking of [00:24:00] humanity, but now contending with that massive force called AI, that's, you know, changing the world every single day about how we acquire information or how we design our own creativity or how we communicate.

[00:24:12] dr. moss: Or what resources are there for us to use or what linkage into, you know, the world at large do we now have, um, it seems to threaten the basis of what we previously thought was humanity. Uh, we now have a new version of welcome to humanity. This time we have a neighbor in this humanity and this neighbor.

[00:24:31] dr. moss: That we have is a machine and the machines know how to act a lot like we think humans act because we taught them how to do that. So, um, that's how they do it. And there's not a real them there. It's really just this is all continues to be part of the. Magic of what it means to be a human being. 

[00:24:51] shilpa: And there's, um, a lot of fear around this concept of AI, um, [00:25:00] without belaboring it though, I agree that it can sound like a human cause we've trained it and depending on which one you've trained or which one you're using, your experience will be different, but that's sort of true for human beings as well.

[00:25:13] dr. moss: Exactly. It is for sure. Yeah. Yeah. You know, we get to deal with the impact that this, uh, You know, this, uh, large force of nature, if you will, uh, using the word nature, uh, a little bit loosely, um, uh, called AI is having on the human race and on the, uh, on, you know, we can, so we do like, you know, we can, we can explore this using, um, electronics and mechanics.

[00:25:42] dr. moss: And so we do, and we just move forward because we can, and we move fast because we can move fast. Um, You know, what's really happening is no longer, uh, really measurable. Uh, there's, you know, you can't, it's going so fast that we don't have the tools to measure the impact. And [00:26:00] that's where we're left really, I think, being really terrified of the whole thing.

[00:26:03] dr. moss: Um, the idea that it's happening so fast that it's just whizzing by us as we enter a new land that's, uh, supplemented by artificial general intelligence or basic artificial intelligence. 

[00:26:17] shilpa: Now, with that, and given what I know about your connection with more of the spirituality side of life, um, Whether it's meditation.

[00:26:26] shilpa: I don't know if you practice meditation. How do you frame? Um, or how do you, I'm trying to come up with the right way to articulate this. Um, there's, as I mentioned earlier, there's so much fear. A lot of people that I talked to fear of politics, fear of what's going on globally, fear of AI. And yet, yeah, I think unlocked the notion that the solution is in our soul.

[00:26:55] shilpa: We can heal. So what do you say to those people [00:27:00] that are so overcome with fear that they think this is so real? 

[00:27:04] dr. moss: Yeah, it is real. Um, first of all, and you don't get out of this one alive, you're going to die. You're going to die on this planet. Um, And, uh, you know, that's, what's going to happen. And, uh, if we can incorporate all that's going on, you know, it's not simple.

[00:27:20] dr. moss: We tend to really veer away from pain and towards pleasure. Um, and if we can incorporate all that's going on as simply being what's going on without the emotions, without the assessments or the evaluations or the judgments, if we can really just take that on as. You know, it's not that my fear of all those things is not as I think back to my early childhood when I was in fourth grade, I was really afraid of this boy named Wayne.

[00:27:47] dr. moss: He was one year older than me and I used to think that he was that he wanted to beat me up every single day. I would be afraid that Wayne wanted to beat me up every day. I took here. I am 67 this Saturday and [00:28:00] um, And I was afraid for my life every day, every day, that level of intensity that I had for Wayne is no different than the level of intensity I have right now for the end of the world, as we know it, so we've had the fear the whole time, and now we think it's gotten me, it's gotten a little bit more legitimate.

[00:28:21] dr. moss: Like, Oh no, for real, like this could really happen now. But when I pay attention to how afraid I was of Wayne and many things, when I was a kid, you know, whatever it was, the Vietnam war, my brother's hitting me or something. I was just afraid at the same level that I'm afraid now, which was maximum fear.

[00:28:41] dr. moss: But now there's a collective agreement reality that the things that you just listed, plus a few others are absolute reasons to support maximum terror to one of your options. One of your options is to be just freaking, [00:29:00] totally terrified, totally possible. I use the word options there because it's not the only option.

[00:29:08] dr. moss: It is a possible option and it may even be the default option. It's just not the one that has to happen. And when we do fall into mindfulness, we fall into, you know, cleansing and, uh, you know, detoxing and nature and creativity and spirituality and service and, um, You know, uh, pampering ourselves and authentic conversations and, uh, gratitude and all these things, they open up the possibility to have a different response than this most painful one called disempowered terror.

[00:29:47] dr. moss: Disempowered terror has swept. There's, there is a lot of people in full scale disempowered terror. Okay. Okay. Yeah, we're all facing [00:30:00] the same stuff. One of the choices is to fall into disempowered terror. It is, I used the word choice this time. It is optional for real. You've been living a life of potential end of the world as we know it since the moment you arrived.

[00:30:24] dr. moss: It's always been the end of the world as you know it is right around the corner. So the end of the world that you, as you know, it is right around the corner. Hello. Welcome to humanity. 

[00:30:37] shilpa: Uh, there's a song, I think it's at the end of the world, as you know, or something like that. Uh, um, well, okay. So for someone who is seeking that hope and welcome to humanity or finding their true voice, where would you [00:31:00] tell them to start if they would like to find more?

[00:31:05] shilpa: Healing opportunities through you. And I will obviously share everything about you in my show notes. 

[00:31:13] dr. moss: Yeah, I think that really we start realizing that there's a choice and we start realizing another thing, which is there may be nothing wrong with you.

[00:31:24] dr. moss: We don't blame a log for burning in the fire. We don't have to blame you for being thoroughly confused in this life. Not sure of the future depressed about things you've done in the past things that have happened being totally terrified being like hopeless Being awkward being distracted. Hello. Welcome to humanity.

[00:31:46] dr. moss: It's all good. Maybe there's nothing wrong with you Maybe this discomfort just came with this life. So when we can go to that, you know, really go to you know [00:32:00] Maybe there's nothing wrong with you and we then couple that with all the exercises strategies Tools, tricks, you know, um, um, and, uh, practices, uh, we have an opportunity to separate ourselves out from the default ways of thinking that have us be disempowered.

[00:32:24] dr. moss: So we don't, you don't have to fall into the disempowered default. You just don't. I get it. You're like, I can't control it. Okay. I don't, I disagree, but you probably can't control it from your present state of affairs. Mindfulness allows us to separate what's going on in the world from who we are. And that's really spectacular.

[00:32:45] shilpa: So in your, in your group. Is it a more of a mastermind or are there courses within, um, your platform? 

[00:32:55] dr. moss: So I have a platform on mighty networks, a welcome to humanity on mighty networks that [00:33:00] I invite your guests to consider coming into and, um, uh, or your listeners, I should say, it's not so much a group and it's not so much, um, you know, I will see people individually if they're interested in, uh, deep, you know, like, uh, On on diagnosing or on medicating or on doctor nating.

[00:33:20] dr. moss: But the problem with that is that it's a different group. The group that has already gotten themselves in have already bought the farm, and this group is very interesting because I want to write a disclaimer about them. There are several people out there who believe that their treatment has been perfect and that they wouldn't trade it for the world.

[00:33:36] dr. moss: And for to those people, I say, Please keep doing exactly what you're doing. You know, if you've reached that point where you wouldn't change something in your life for the world. Mhm. Like congratulations, more power to you. There's no, no improvement available. You should actually keep doing what you're doing.

[00:33:52] dr. moss: So I'm not telling them they're wrong. On the other hand, the possibility of really taking away the trauma of the diagnosis and the. [00:34:00] Um, the promoter of that diagnosis that often masks itself as medication, then, uh, you, you have a possible new life to explore. 

[00:34:10] shilpa: That's lovely. Um, well, I will be going deeper into it.

[00:34:14] shilpa: I know you've invited me to welcome to humanity in the past. I'm glad that we finally connected. Sure. Hopefully if our schedules allowed particularly yours, you can come back and we can go deeper. I would 

[00:34:27] dr. moss: love that. I would love that. Thank you. 

[00:34:29] shilpa: Yeah, I would definitely love that. Especially other modalities, like I practice meditation.

[00:34:34] shilpa: So 

[00:34:35] dr. moss: yeah, of course. Let's talk about it for sure. 

[00:34:38] shilpa: Thank you. We'll have a lovely day. 

[00:34:40] dr. moss: All right. Thank you. 

[00:34:41] shilpa: I will connect with you via message messages. All right. 

[00:34:45] dr. moss: It was really beautiful conversation. 

[00:34:48] shilpa: Take care.