Codependent Doctor
Podcast focusing on codependency. Learning how to create healthier relationships, healthier self and healthier lives.
Codependent Doctor
54 Codependency Talk With the Author of Love Smacked - Sherry Gaba Interview
Feeling lost in people-pleasing and emotional caretaking? You’re not alone. Psychotherapist and author of Love Smacked, Sherry Gaba, joins us to unpack codependency. We explore how early relational trauma wires us to abandon ourselves for connection.
Learn to spot the subtle signs of codependency: resentment, overgiving, chronic guilt. Sherry explains the link between love addiction and the pull toward unavailable partners.
We dive into healing tools: inner child work, parts therapy, and nervous system regulation. Discover how healing doesn’t always mean leaving the relationship—discernment is key.
This episode is both validating and deeply practical for anyone on the healing path.
Tune in to reclaim your peace, power, and sense of self.
For more information, go to www.SherryGaba.com
Get my Free ebook on the link between codependency and trauma here https://sherrygaba.com/trauma-quiz
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🦋 Enough As I Am - A healing workbook for anyone navigating people-pleasing, guilt, or self-abandonment. It’s filled with practical tools to help you build boundaries and reclaim your self-worth.
🖋️ Enough As I Grow - A 365-day journal with daily prompts to guide you through your healing journey one day at a time.
If you're interested in a list of books that I recommend to help you on your journey you can request it by clicking on the link in my show notes.
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🎵 Music: Touching The Air by Graceful Movement
If you've ever found yourself stuck in people-pleasing, constantly over-giving in relationships or wondering why you keep losing yourself trying to make someone else happy, then this episode's for you.
Speaker 1:I'm joined by the amazing Sherry Gaba. She's a psychotherapist, author of Love Smacked, and a total powerhouse when it comes to helping people heal from codependency, love addiction and toxic relationships. We're talking about what codependency actually is and what it's not, how unresolved trauma shows up in over-functioning or emotional caretaking and how it can keep us disconnected from our true selves. We also dive into the red flags of codependent patterns, the overlap with love addiction and, most importantly, what you can do to start breaking free, even if you're still in a relationship or family dynamic that's feeding the pattern. There's so much wisdom packed into this episode, so grab your coffee, find a cozy spot and let's get into it. Welcome to the Codependent Doctor, a podcast where we unpack the messy, beautiful journey of healing from codependency. If you're burned out from people-pleasing, stuck in unhealthy patterns or just tired of putting yourself last, you're in the right place. I'm Dr Angela Downey, a family doctor and fellow codependent, and I'm here to help you reconnect to your authentic self. One honest conversation at a time. Here we go. Hello to all my wonderful podcast listeners and welcome to the fourth episode of the Codependent Doctor. I'm your host, dr Angela Downey, a family doctor and fellow codependent, here to help us untangle our patterns, heal our hearts and reclaim our peace. Today's episode is a little different, but in the best way possible, because I'm not flying solo today. I'm joined by Sherry Gaba. She's a licensed psychotherapist and life coach who helps people cope with codependency, love addiction, toxic relationships and mental health issues. She's a single mother and once her daughter was old enough, she returned to school to receive her Master's of Social Work at the University of Southern California.
Speaker 1:As a leading expert on addiction and recovery, sherry's TV appearances include VH1 Celebrity Rehab, cnn Inside Edition, the Robert Irvine Show and Access Live. She's been featured in Cosmopolitan Women's World, the LA Times, thrive Global, the New York Post, marriagecom Psychology Today, zoosk and other leading publications Marriagecom, psychology Today, zoosk and other leading publications. She's also been a guest on many serious XM radio shows and hosted her own podcast called the Love Fix. Sherry is the author of Love Smacked, in which she addresses relationship, addiction and codependency, and is a contributing writer to the book Chicken Soup for the Soul Tough Times, tough People. Sherry maintains a private practice for codependents love the Soul. Tough Times, tough People. Sherry maintains a private practice for codependents, love addicts, trauma survivors and those breaking free from a toxic relationship. Hi, sherry, I'm so glad that you're able to join us today. How are you.
Speaker 2:I'm great, and thank you, angela, for having me. I'm really honored and I love what you're doing in the world.
Speaker 1:Thank you, sherry. I'm honestly so excited to have you on the show today. Your work has helped so many people put words to patterns that they didn't even know that they were stuck in, especially when it comes to codependency, love, addiction and trauma. You have this really grounded and compassionate way of explaining things that makes people feel really seen instead of being judged, and I think that it's so important for the healing process. Plus, your own personal journey going back to school as a single mom and now helping others who are trying to break free from toxic patterns is just it's very inspiring, and I know that my listeners are going to get so much out of your wisdom and I'm just really grateful to have you here. I'm happy to be here, very happy to be here, sherry. One of the traditions on my show is that we discuss something that we're grateful for, because when we stop and think about what we're grateful for, it helps our brain focus on the things that are working instead of the things that are broken.
Speaker 1:So I'd like to ask if there's anything that you're especially grateful for today.
Speaker 2:I'm grateful today that I live in beautiful Florida. I bought a condo here three years ago and I live on the beautiful ocean and I'm just very grateful to have this life. Tomorrow I'm going home to see my family in California. I'm grateful for that, of course, but I'm just grateful for the life that I built I love that you get to have some warm weather year round.
Speaker 1:I live in Canada, where it gets pretty darn cold here sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I gotta be by the sun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'd be by the ocean. Being a Pisces, I'd love to be by the ocean Not a whole lot of water close to where I am. So, as far as what I'm grateful for, I sanded my deck this weekend, but the weather was supposed to be terrible. It was supposed to rain all weekend and we reserved the sander a couple weeks ago. We had to go and get it. We had rented it and come back home and figure out how to use it and all. We were trying to beat the rain and luckily, I'm actually really grateful that the rain held off for a little bit and we managed to get the job done with just a couple of raindrops at the end. So just yeah, I managed to get that done. So that's probably just the rain holding off for just a little bit is what I think I'm really grateful for right now.
Speaker 2:So, to start things off, would you be able to maybe introduce yourself and tell us how you came to become such a powerhouse of a lady. Well, I'm Sherry Gaba and I'm a licensed clinical social worker and I've been doing it for about 30 years. I don't know if I see myself as a powerhouse. I know I've done a lot. Sometimes we don't see what other people see, but I did have the opportunity to meet Dr Drew Pinsky years ago. He was a famed addictionologist. Now he's doing some different things podcasts himself, and he's often on different news channels.
Speaker 2:But at the time he was doing celebrity rehab and I had the opportunity to meet him and I just said I'm going to be on that show, like I was really into the law of attraction and I just put it out there. And so after the first season I got invited to be on the following three seasons or maybe four I'm not sure if it was three or four and that just gave me a little bit of a media background. I guess you could say media buzz. I ended up writing two books on recovery and love addiction and now you know I'm just really passionate. I was very involved in addiction. I was married to an alcoholic, I was on the show. My book is recovery related and then I just kind of moved into codependency, love, addiction, trauma and most recently I'm just very much interested in generational trauma and how that affects us.
Speaker 1:So that is my history my wisdom and racial trauma is a really big, really big field and I know it affects a lot of people.
Speaker 2:Well, I think after October 7th happened, that was, you know, what happened in Israel. It was a really scary, scary experience having Holocaust surviving families, and it just really hit me hard. And then I started searching into what happened to my family during the war and that's just my story. There's so many other stories for the people in Gaza, for the people everywhere that they had. We're going to feel it and I do believe that I was experiencing generational trauma when October 7th happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a lot to deal with. So you've worked with so many people who are struggling with codependency. Can you walk us through what that is and what it's not Sure?
Speaker 2:So codependency is a pattern of losing yourself. In a relationship it can look like chronic people pleasing others at your own expense. It's defining your worth. Through others you need to feel needed or wanted. That's you get all your worth.
Speaker 2:Codependents tend to put other people's emotions and needs and problems ahead of their own. They don't even realize they're doing it. It's so subconscious. Even codependency can be a transgenerational trauma piece, depending on your history or your ancestor's history. It's a lack of boundaries. It's really a lack of connection to self. That's the biggest piece losing yourself, abandoning yourself. You feel responsible for other people's happiness and if they're not happy you feel guilty, you feel anxious, you feel shame, especially when you're trying to express your own needs. You just forget how to express your own needs. You almost feel invisible. So you struggle with saying no. You often fear being alone. You confuse intensity or caretaking with love. So love becomes being a caretaker, like I was with my ex-alcoholic.
Speaker 2:But what many don't realize is that codependency is rooted in early relational trauma. My story was I was a preemie. I was in an incubator. My mother did not hold me for three months. That was another one of my early traumas, and so that conditioned me to be looking always on the outside, being very other focused instead of being inwardly focused.
Speaker 2:So it's usually a childhood where love may have been conditional and predictable, fused with responsibility. You might've been parentified, meaning maybe you had a single mother. They treated you like an adult. So you became like this little mini adult. You never again knew what your needs were. So the codependent adapts, being what others want them to be, and they're very hyper, attuned to other people's moods and disconnecting from their own internal world to avoid abandonment or disapproval. That would be their worst fear in life. But the truth is, you know, codependency is not a character flaw, it's a survival strategy and it can be unlearned with the proper therapy. I use IFS, somatic work, nervous system regulation. By doing these things you can reconnect to your authentic self and learn how to set healthy boundaries and build relationships that are mutual and not enmeshed or emotionally caretaking.
Speaker 1:To be codependent, do you have to be all of those things that you listed, or just some of?
Speaker 2:them. You know, I don't think you have to be all of them. I mean you could be codependent in a work relationship. I mean mine is more intimate relationships, but no, you don't have to be all those things. But the idea is that you're other-focused, that you're always thinking of everybody else before yourself, and so, no, not all those things, but many of those traits.
Speaker 1:How does unresolved trauma play into codependent behaviors, especially when it comes to things like people-pleasing or over-functioning in relationships?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, most people think of trauma as being this big dramatic event, and it doesn't have to be. Trauma can be very subtle, can be chronic and it can be really emotional. So, like I was saying earlier, if you grew up in a home where love was conditional, where emotions weren't safe to express, that's where you start to feel invisible, that's where you become other focused, or where you had to take care of others to feel valued, your nervous system adapts to this and then all your adult relationships duplicate that. So you might've learned to disconnect from your needs, silent your truth. People, please you turn yourself into a pretzel.
Speaker 2:I did that a lot in relationships, just to be loved. I wanted love so badly from the moment I came into this world. Not having my mother, not having that early attachment, it was all about do you love me out there instead of self-love inside. So it's turning yourself into what you think others want you to be to get that love. So it's a survival strategy and it is rooted for me in particular and most codependents, in a fear of abandonment, a fear of being rejected, fear of being too much. You trade authenticity for connection. You trade authenticity for connection. You'll just do whatever that person wants you to be, so they don't leave you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you've talked about like codependency and how that can block you from being your authentic self. So what does that mean to you and how do we show up? How do we start showing up for ourselves?
Speaker 2:So it's about that connection again with yourself, and you have to know how to connect with yourself and if you don't, that's where good trauma therapy can help you do that. But it begins with safety. Authenticity only emerges when the nervous system feels safe and sometimes you could be out there with the nicest person, you could be dating the nicest person, but it still feels unsafe because it's unfamiliar. So it's all about doing all the different modalities that I was talking about parts work, somatic work, getting you to connect to those inner parts, the people pleaser, the fixer, the self-doubter, the part of you that fears abandonment, and just getting them all to show up and loving all those parts because they weren't flaws, they were just there to protect you.
Speaker 2:So radical authenticity means reclaiming the parts that were buried, you know, finding those parts that you've stuffed down for the sake of approval, and it means learning to say no without guilt. So many of my clients always talk about this guilt they feel when they step into their truth. So sharing your truth, even if there's risks of disconnection, because if you're safe with yourself you can do this, but if you don't feel safe with yourself, you're always going to be running to the outside of yourself for that connection. So it's not a performance, it's a return and in essence, it's what happens when we abandon ourselves to be loved. So radical authenticity is what happens when we love ourselves enough to really come home to ourselves.
Speaker 1:I am like a people pleaser and you know I've got my own traumas that I've dealt with. And a couple of years ago if you would have asked me who I was or what I liked, I think I would have just been referring to, like, my job title. Yeah, but deep down, like I had no idea who I was and it took a long time for me to figure that out. Is there like what can someone do if they don't feel like they know who they are at their core? Like what would be the steps in getting to know yourself and what does that look like? What do I?
Speaker 2:want, just asking yourself what do I want, even if it's the wildest ideas you know, like living on the ocean? I always wanted to live on the ocean but it seemed like, oh, that's just a pipe dream, that'll never happen. If you want a healthy relationship, who do you want to be with? What would make you feel good? Maybe you don't want to be in a relationship. Maybe you don't want to go with the pressure of what society tells you. Maybe you're perfectly happy being on your own. I mean really just finally trying to step away from what other people have expected of you, what you've expected of you. And what does my soul long for? What does it?
Speaker 1:really want. Yeah, if you've spent your life, you know shapeshifting to be what other people want you to be and you know doing everything because you're, you know, saying things not wanting to make anybody else upset, or you're changing yourself so other people are going to like you. It's really hard to know what do you actually want?
Speaker 2:It's true, it's just pulling those layers, that's why therapy is so important to really get to that, to the bottom, because it's true you don't know what your preferences are. You just never have given a thought because you just want to be loved so badly You'll be whatever anybody wants you to be and, yes, it's a process. So be compassionate with that part of you that doesn't know yet Say, oh, hi, part, I see you, I know you want to come out and play and you want to figure out who you are. I'm here, I've got you. You know, loving that part of you, it's even questioning who you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not very kind to ourselves sometimes.
Speaker 2:I love the parts work because it really it brings in so much compassion, so much love and compassion for every part of us, not just I'm this, I'm that, I'm black, I'm white. It's loving all of it it's, you know, it's total radical self-acceptance, is what it is and that's what we need to. Really that's part of recovery from codependency.
Speaker 1:To be okay with who you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's just accepting what is yes exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What are some of the red flags that someone might notice that indicates that they're caught in this codependent pattern?
Speaker 2:Well, what's interesting about codependence is sometimes they're some of the most angry people because they've been stuffing their feelings for so long. So do you notice that you get angry easily? Are you resentful, are you exhausted, are you anxious but don't know how to stop? It's not about being too nice or caring too much. It's about you just are losing yourself completely. So ask yourself some questions. Do I feel responsible for other people's feelings or problems? Do I have a hard time saying no, even when it costs me? Do I ignore my own needs and desires or boundaries to avoid conflict? That's a biggie avoiding conflict. I don't want to be rejected. That's a huge codependent trait. Do I feel anxious or unworthy when I'm not helping, when I'm just in the world and not just fixing and trying to make myself be needed? Do I stay in unhealthy relationships because I fear being alone? I mean, those all would be questions that you could journal on and just ask yourself. That might help, you see am I codependent?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I used to definitely be very resentful of people, or I would blame other people for me being unhappy, but it truly was, because I was just letting people either walk all over me or I wasn't able to ask for the things that I wanted.
Speaker 2:Well, you didn't learn how. Again, it's all about that other focus and that's what we have. It's the other disease, it really is, and that's where we have to kind of turn it around and make it about ourselves what's happening inside of us.
Speaker 1:So you wrote the book Love Smacked. Tell me about the book.
Speaker 2:So it's a little bit about love addiction, codependency and trauma. Now there is a relationship between love addiction and codependency. They can be very intertwined and so I kind of want people to understand that there is a connection. Love addiction is that compulsive pursuit of romantic intensity. You could be a romance addict. You could be a love addict. You get high on infatuation, fantasy.
Speaker 2:Emotional chaos is what you see as love. Deep down, it's just again driven by that fear of abandonment, fear of rejection, a deep sense of emptiness. When you think of any addiction, it's trying to fill up that emptiness, just like drugs or alcohol or any other addiction. You're trying to fill it up. The only way you can fill it up is a connection to yourself, a connection to something greater, but often with people who are emotionally unavailable or inconsistent. That is what love addicts, codependents, attract. So codependence, on the other hand, is the tendency to focus on others, like I was talking about earlier, at the expense of others and overgiving people-pleasing.
Speaker 2:But I think there's just a great, there's a great intertwinement between the two and there's a loop that happens. Feel incomplete or unworthy, then you seek out a partner to fix the emptiness, which is the codependent piece. Then you idealize the connection of the person, which is the love addiction piece. Then they pull away, which triggers your abandonment, wound Again another codependent piece, and then you start behaving dysfunctionally, like trying harder, turning yourself into a pretzel to please them, losing yourself, clinging, and this dynamic becomes sort of a cycle and that's often why codependents, love addicts attract toxic people.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of the loop. You fall hard and fast, even when there's red flags. You confuse intensity and chemistry or anxiety with love. Then you feel anxious or empty inside or worthless without that connection and then you keep choosing, emotionally unavailable so you can have that connection, which means you end up settling and you abandon your needs, your boundaries, your own identity and you feel like you can't stop obsessing over that person or being in a relationship. You really feel like it's almost worse than death to be alone, and that was how I was and that's why I had multiple relationships over and over again till I finally spent some time alone with myself and that all stemmed from being alone in that incubator and what we know is we have cell memory and that was probably a very scary thing for an infant to not have their mother's touch. You know, we know about attachment, so obviously I had major attachment issues and that's what created the love addict and codependent in me to be loved.
Speaker 1:So you talked about not having your mother there for the first couple of months. Yeah, you know, and sometimes as parents we do things to our kids, whether you know. It's probably, maybe it's not intentional or whatnot, but is there a recovery from that? So you have some trauma for those first couple of months, but is there a way for parents to make things better going forward?
Speaker 2:Well, for that trauma piece. Yes, I mean that's when I back in. I would say it was like 2008 or 2009,. I found a trauma therapist and even though I was a therapist, I knew all about talk therapy. I had no idea, like I knew I was different, but I didn't know what it was. And then I finally realized, oh my God, it's inside my body. I need to release the energy that's in my body that it feels so empty.
Speaker 2:I need to really go back, not like know every detail of that infant experience, but feel what it must have felt like. And it can be any kind of trauma. It could be God forbid you were molested or your parents went through a divorce, you went through a tsunami or a fire or whatever. You go back to that event and you discharge that energy in a very slow, titrated way. That's somatic work. You also can start looking at those parts. You know, look at that baby, that incubator baby, or look at the resilience of that baby.
Speaker 2:And that is a big part of my story is that a lot of my success was, I think, the resilience from that trauma, which was positive, but there were other parts that were not positive, so I had to really heal all of it, you know, I mean because trauma isn't a terrible thing. It can make you like, just like yourself. You probably became very successful in your own right from whatever trauma you experienced, but you also have to heal the trauma that is not serving you, and so that's really. Those are the steps. So what?
Speaker 1:are those first steps that people can take if they recognize that they're in these codependent relationships and you talk about the loop. So what are the steps that you can use to get out of that loop?
Speaker 2:Again the inner child work, really loving that little girl inside of you or little boy inside of you, doing that parts work, identify that parts, heal those parts. Really love that people pleaser, rescuer, performer, and then bring in this thing that we all have, which is self-energy, our soul self, our highest version of ourself, and then we come from that place in a very calm, curious and compassionate way. Learn how to regulate your nervous system, self-soothe. If you don't know how to self-soothe, then you're not going to want to be alone and you're going to be always wanting to fix and control and find someone to make everything okay. So you have to learn to go inward and learn how to regulate your own nervous system. If your body learned that love is unsafe or unpredictable, your nervous system will always be in survival mode. So somatic tools like grounding and breath work and co-regulation teaches your body that it's safe to feel, it's safe to express and to set limits. And of course, you got to do your boundary work, learning how to set healthy boundaries, learning how to build emotional tolerance. Codependents often struggle to tolerate the discomfort when some other people are upset with you or they're disappointed in you or they don't like you. So the real freedom comes when you can go. It's okay. They don't have to like me, they don't have to. It's okay as long as I'm being true to myself and then grieving that old identity.
Speaker 2:A big part of healing is just grieving the roles that you used to play. You know I had to grieve being the caregiver to the alcoholic, the fixer, the one who held it all together. You know the single parent was a survivor. I had to sort of heal that person. These all served a purpose, but they're not the full story of who you are. So you get to reclaim all those parts, and even the parts that were silenced, to keep the peace and bring in the healthy you. Ultimately breaking free is about, like I said earlier, coming home to yourself, learning that you're lovable without earning it. You don't have to earn love. You're safe without having to contort and you are worthy of relationships. That is where you're whole, just the way you are. You're resourceful, just the way you are. That is its foundation.
Speaker 1:I had a patient come in and was talking about his relationship and there was a lot of difficult dynamics in his relationship and when we were talking about that and I was trying to encourage him to get to know himself better and to work on himself, his first question was do I have to break up with my relationship? So is it possible to work through your codependency and stay together in a relationship?
Speaker 2:Yes, you can absolutely stay in your relationship If it's a toxic relationship. No, and what's really important is to decipher are my triggers in this relationship based on the past or is it based on I'm with a toxic person? In other words, you can still get activated and triggered. You just have to figure out. Is it because I'm in a toxic cycle? And if I'm in a toxic cycle, that usually means there's no resolving, there's no repair. If I'm in an activated relationship but there's repair, they're not toxic, they're respectful, there's reciprocation. You absolutely can be in that relationship. You just have to be aware that, unfortunately, codependents tend to be in toxic relationships. They tend to pick people that are not the givers, they're usually the takers. They can be abusive. They can be verbally abusive. And so just be really clear Am I with somebody where there is repair when there is a rupture?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's tough to. Sometimes it can be hard because the other person, like you, can work on yourself, but you can't force the other person to work on themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and sometimes people can be very manipulative, like you can work on yourself, but you can't force the other person to work on themselves. Yeah, and sometimes people can be very manipulative. I was in a relationship with someone that kept bringing up my wounds and they thought of I just bring up. You know, if I bring up her wounds, my wounds, then I can look really good over here and I don't have to be accountable for my wounds or my part. I'll just keep pointing the finger at you. And then, of course, if you're a codependent, you're going to go. Oh yeah, it must be my fault, it must be me, it must be my wounds. It can be very insidious these kinds of relationships. Again, don't be afraid to be in relationships. Just be aware of manipulation. Gaslighting Even a nice person can feel triggering if you're not used to being with a nice person. So that's why it's so important to really know yourself.
Speaker 1:Go inward, feel what you need to feel inside. Regulate yourself because it is easy to be activated when you have a history of trauma.
Speaker 2:What role does shame play in keeping people stuck in toxic or one-sided relationships? So shame plays a powerful role often an invisible role in keeping people stuck in toxic relationships. I think it's pretty much what I was just saying. It tells you that you're the problem. You're not good enough that you somehow deserve the treatment you're receiving. Shame convinces you that if you just try harder, fix yourself, prove your worth, the other person will finally love you. It's really insidious. It's very deep In toxic dynamics, especially those involving emotional abuse or narcissism.
Speaker 2:Shame becomes a control mechanism where you internalize the blame for the dysfunction instead of them taking accountability. So instead of seeing the other person's harmful behavior, you wonder what's wrong. Again, it always goes back to it must be me. So shame keeps you silent, it keeps you isolated, it keeps you disconnected from your inner knowing and it makes leaving you feel like you're a failure. If you leave, you kind of second guess yourself. That is a huge trauma trigger is second guessing. So that's why, if any of this stuff is happening, get a great trauma therapist Work with someone like myself who does the somatic healing that does the parts work. That'll really help you sort of manage all these parts inside of you that are confused and second guessing and activated.
Speaker 1:Can you walk me through what somatic healing looks like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, if I asked you when you were in some of your codependent behaviors, what would be an example of one of those situations where you felt like you were sort of pretzel bending for somebody?
Speaker 1:So I repeated the third grade when I was younger and it was really tough going back to school. I didn't have any friends, so I just kind of did whatever they wanted me to do and I would be whoever they needed me to be.
Speaker 2:So what do you notice when you say that? Where do you feel that? What is the felt sense in your body? Not maybe what's in your brain, but like, is there any kind of physical feeling anywhere? I feel?
Speaker 1:it in my stomach.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So just kind of notice the energy in your stomach, just kind of notice what it wants to do, where it wants to go. Might be a little uncomfortable at first. Just allowing it, allowing it to just move through you and be aware of it, watch it move, that's really how you release it. It's not really rocket science, it's just watching the energy move, letting it move, letting it go where it wants to go because it actually doesn't want to be there. It's actually probably stuck energy that just really wants to come out. Because you know, being in that type of situation was probably really really hard and very lonely it was very lonely yeah, so where does lonely live?
Speaker 1:Pardon, where does my loneliness live? Uh-huh, it's always in my stomach. It makes me feel sick yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, that's what somatic work is. It's just, you know, noticing where that feeling is and letting it move. And then suddenly all of a sudden you can people that have addictions or love addictions or codependency and you're always looking outside yourself. Once you can be inside and not afraid, it's probably really scary for some people to be really present with what's happening in their bodies. It's not something they're used to. I know when I started trauma therapy it was like what, what do you mean? Look inside, what are you talking about? I had no idea. I was so disassociated from my body. But once you do that, then when things happen to you in your life, you're like oh, I can be in my body, I don't have to leave my body, I don't have to escape, I don't have to settle for some, you know, random person because I can't be with me and it's pretty brilliant.
Speaker 1:I do have some patients who come in. You know they've got anxiety, they're feeling chest pain or you know their stomach's upset all the time. You know they're having diarrhea all the time because of their anxiety and maybe that's just them not processing things that are going on.
Speaker 2:That's actually probably in some ways a good thing that it's coming out. It can come out in a burp, it can come out in a fart, it can come out having diarrhea, it can have anxieties coming out and then kind of knowing that and then just keep you know. You don't have to talk about all the details of the trauma, like it's not about. I certainly can't remember being in an incubator, but my body remembers. You know, that's the whole idea is our body does remember. We just may not remember the details. I mean, if you talk to someone who, god forbid, was molested, they're maybe not going to remember every detail because they disassociated, but their body is going to remember what that felt like. So letting that move not going into the details, but just letting it move and I think it's the greatest work ever. I think it's a little overdone out there the whole trauma word. I think everybody just talks trauma, trauma ever. I think it's a little overdone out there the whole trauma word. I think everybody just talks trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma.
Speaker 1:I mean it's fine, but I think sometimes it's a little overdone, without really processing what that means.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Exactly Like they're bypassing the trauma. We're talking about the trauma. We don't need to talk about it, we just need to experience the movement of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, We've become good at saying that we have trauma, but not necessarily managing our feelings around it, or you know how your stomach is feeling or figuring out where it stems from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like the intergenerational trauma that I've become very aware of, is why am I stuck? Why do I keep doing these same behaviors? Well, wait a minute. If I look at the history of my ancestors and how they were persecuted and the things that happened and again that could be any population, not just my population or my tribe it makes sense oh, that's why I'm stuck, that's why I'm a people pleaser, because that's how my ancestors did it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I even learned this. This was amazing to me. So I was in a class about intergenerational trauma and we were talking about slaves, and we always talk about the slaves, but you know what we never talk about, and this was just fascinating to me the people that came from Africa on the ships, that died on the ships. Those people we never talk about population and what happened to those people and where does how did that affect future generations? You know what I mean? The ones that took the journey on the ships, you know, to this country. I mean, it's just, I don't know any population that hasn't experienced some kind of trauma.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. We have a large Indigenous population here in Winnipeg, where I'm from, and just watching, you know, learning about some of the traumas that they felt when they were taken away from their families and, you know, put in these residential schools and it impacts you for generations to come and it's heartbreaking and, yeah, it's unfortunate and it affects many people in many different ways for a long time system and for ourselves, for future generations, and that's really what we're doing.
Speaker 2:We're helping future generations. I noticed, the more I do this work, as much as this is going to sound really weird, my granddaughter is getting her own abandonment issues seem to be healing. It's fascinating. She had this. She would call me, she would be afraid when mommy and daddy went out and she'd want to have me on the phone. But she's not doing that anymore and it's interesting because I keep doing the work and she's doing her work in a way.
Speaker 1:That's great. Well, it's good that it's being talked about. I do think that's an important stuff. So what would you say that a healthy relationship actually looks like?
Speaker 2:Healthy, looks like consistency, without the chase being seen, without having to perform conflict, that even if it's uncomfortable, you go through it anyway and it's safe and it's repairable. It's love that builds slowly it's not this explosion and generally the absence of anxiety, but not the absence of passion. Calm feels boring. It's not because something's wrong. It's because your system was trained to equate stress with connection. But healing is learning and safety and it isn't dull. It's peaceful and grounding and very freeing.
Speaker 1:It can definitely feel much calmer than other relationships. There's very little anxiety there, so sometimes it can be equated to being boring a little bit little anxiety there, so sometimes it can be equated to being boring a little bit.
Speaker 2:Then you talk to that part. You go oh there, that is again. I'm looking for that quick, exciting fix. No, this is okay, boring is good, this is safe. And then you have to do some self talk and remind yourself isn't this really what I want? Someone that I can count on, someone I can trust, someone that isn't, you know, going to me, or someone that isn't going to work on issues? I mean, that's what we want. We want something that is everlasting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we all strive to find that relationship and I think it really starts by working on yourself and healing yourself and being the best version of yourself that you can be before you look for that relationship.
Speaker 2:So true People want to run from that, especially codependents and love addicts. They don't want to do that work and if you don't do it, you're going to keep attracted the same. I am an example of that. Sherry, where can we find you? They can go to SherryGabacom. I have a free ebook, if they want to get, that talks about the connection between trauma and codependency and that's at SherryGabacom. Forward slash trauma dash quiz. It's a quiz to see if they you know what is there a link between their codependency and trauma? And they get a free ebook and they want to make an appointment for a 15-minute consultation with me. I'm always available and that would be great.
Speaker 1:Amazing, so I'm going to put that link in the show notes to make it easier for people to find. Sherry, I want to thank you for being with us today. Your insight, your honesty and your heart really came through, and I know that so many people are listening or walking away feeling a little bit more understood and maybe a little bit more hopeful. These are really hard conversations to have sometimes, but you make them feel safe. So I want to thank you for sharing your story, your expertise and for the work that you do every day to help people untangle from these toxic patterns and to move forward in their healing. So it was a gift to have you here today and I want to thank you for your time. You are so welcome Angela.
Speaker 2:Thank you again for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you, and thank you to all my faithful listeners for hanging out with us today on the Codependent Doctor. If you liked the episode, I'd love it if you would click, follow and share it with someone who needs to hear it today. Heck, share it with the whole world. I'd love to help more people out. I'm most active on Facebook at the Codependent Doctor and threads and Instagram at drangeladowney. I wish you all a great week as you learn to foster a better relationship with the most important person in your life yourself. I'm gonna talk to you again in two weeks for another episode of the Codependent Doctor. Take care for now You've got this. Thanks for spending time with me today.
Speaker 1:I hope something in this episode resonated with you. If it did hit, follow, subscribe or share it with someone who needs to hear it today. The Codependent Doctor is not medical advice and doesn't replace speaking to your healthcare provider. If you're in a crisis, please go to the nearest ER or call 911 or reach out to your healthcare provider. If you're in a crisis, please go to the nearest ER or call 911 or reach out to your local mental health helpline. I'll be back here next week with more support stories and strategies, because we're healing together.