Codependent Doctor
Podcast focusing on codependency. Learning how to create healthier relationships, healthier self and healthier lives.
Codependent Doctor
Reading Faces, Healing Patterns: Michelle Butt and How Facial Intelligence Transforms Relationships
In this episode, I sit down with Michelle Butt, founder of Face Talk™ and expert in Facial Intelligence, to explore how our facial features can act as a mirror to the mind and spirit. Michelle shares how understanding our own face can reveal patterns, improve communication, and help us break free from cycles of people-pleasing and conflict. It’s a powerful conversation about stepping into self-awareness, connection, and personal power.
Connect with Michelle on Instagram @michellembutt, on Facebook at Michelle Butt Facial Intelligence Expert, at www.atfacevalu.com, or through her free Reflection Masterclass. She has also shared the link to her book: Face Talk.
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Today's episode is all about something you probably haven't thought much about, your face. And I don't mean in the do I spinach in my teeth kind of way, but in the sense that your face actually holds clues to how you communicate, connect, and even repeat patterns in your relationships. We're diving into the fascinating world of facial intelligence, how our features can act like a mirror, showing us not just who we are, but how we show up for others. And if you've ever struggled with people pleasing, conflict, or feeling like you lose yourself in relationships, this conversation is gonna give you a whole new perspective on those patterns, where they come from, and how to shift them. So stick around because by the end, you'll have a powerful new tool to understand yourself more deeply and maybe even spot the keys to connection and conflict resolution right in your own reflection. So grab yourself a cup of coffee, have a seat, and stick with us. This is gonna be a good one. Welcome to the Codependent Doctor, a podcast where we unpack the messy, beautiful journey of healing from codependency. If you're burned out from people pleasing, stuck in unhealthy patterns, or just tired of putting yourself last, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Angela Downey, a family doctor and fellow codependent, and I'm here to help you reconnect to your authentic self, one honest conversation at a time. Here we go. Hello to all my wonderful podcast listeners, and welcome to the 58th episode of the Codependent Doctor. I'm your host, Dr. Angela Downey, a family doctor and fellow codependent, who's here to help us untangle our patterns, heal our hearts, and reclaim our peace. For today's episode, we have a guest with us. Michelle Butt is a facial intelligence expert and founder of FaceTalk. With training in Chinese face reading, linguistics, and philosophy, she created a system that helps coaches, healers, and leaders decode facial features to spark breakthroughs, deepen relationships, and create lasting change. I'm really excited to have Michelle on the show because what she teaches us is so different from anything we've talked about before. The idea that our face can actually give you insight into your patterns, your power, and even how you connect with other people. This feels like a totally new doorway into self-awareness and healing. I can't wait for you to hear her take on this. Welcome, Michelle. I'm so glad that you're able to join us today. How are you? I'm doing really well. How are you? Good, good. I hear you're in Canada just like me.
SPEAKER_00:I am, yeah. I'm in Ontario.
SPEAKER_01:That's amazing. Enjoying the summer while we can.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Michelle, one of my traditions on the show is that we discuss what we're grateful for because when we stop to think about what we're grateful for, it helps our brains focus on what's working instead of what's missing or what's broken. So I'd like to ask, is there anything that you're grateful for today?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. Well, I am grateful for in this moment, this beautiful space that I'm in. We've spent the last two years building a house that is our second home. And um, it's finally done. So we get to spend some time here, and it just feels amazing. So I'm very grateful for that.
SPEAKER_01:It's nice when the work is finally done and you actually get to appreciate it instead of just worrying about and paint swatches and things like that. So uh for me, I'm really grateful. I've got this great group of uh friends, and I'm super introverted, and but my partner is more on the extroverted side, and she's got these great friends who she's been meeting with regularly, and now she's brought me into that fold. So I'm loving all the great people that I've gotten to meet, and we still get together every month, rain or shine, and we just got together this weekend, and I'm really grateful for all the new people I've met, and she's really kind of gotten me out of my shell because I would rather just kind of sit at home in my bathrobe, to be honest with you. And uh, so it's nice being able to get out there and and and to meet people and and to have great friends. And for all of you who are listening out there today, what are you grateful for? I'd love to know. You can reach me on Facebook at the Codependent Doctor or Instagram at dr Angela Downey. So, Michelle, I'd like to start with your story. How did you first get introduced to Chinese face reading and communication science? And what inspired you to blend those into what you now call facial intelligence?
SPEAKER_00:That's a great place to start. I left corporate uh management for a few years to have a bunch of kids. And when I was deciding to go back to work, I wanted to go into that leadership mentorship space, but not go back to the corporate grind. So I did a bunch of NLP and coaching courses and thought, okay, I'm gonna be a coach because people came to me anyway. And as I started to have that journey of coaching, at the same time, things weren't necessarily working in my marriage. So I thought, okay, there's gotta be something that I can do better around seeing what people want me to know but aren't able to tell me because I was working with clients and they would come back session after session and kind of still be in the same place. And I'm like, we're not getting to it. And I have all these great tools that I was trained with and paid for, and they're not working. So I went on a search to try and find the thing that would work for me. And I happened upon a book on Chinese face reading, picked it up, took it home, read it from cover to cover, and then I thought, oh my god, there's something to this, but it's a little ancient, it's a little woo-woo. I don't know if this is gonna work. And then a client walked into my office who'd been struggling with anxiety and a whole bunch of things, and I just took one look at her face, and I said to her, We're gonna do something different today. I'm gonna tell you what your face is telling me because I think this is the actual root of your problem. And um, she had this nose that said everything about the anxiety and everything about the way that she was doing her life, and from there actually able to figure out the problem, which maybe we can chat about later as we talk more about this work. But that started a whole change in her life. She changed career, she started a new job, she started working for herself, she wrote a book, she had a couple of kids, met the love of her life, and all because she finally knew who she was and how she could do life according to her design as opposed to haphazardly. And that made me say, okay, there's something to this, but we're not living in ancient China. So, how do we modernize the work to meet modern day problems? And that's where facial intelligence came into play because I had a degree in linguistics and communication, so I layered in those strategies with the face reading part and started facial intelligence.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so this was news to me. I'd never heard of this before. So, listeners who might be hearing about this for the first time, what exactly is facial intelligence and how different is it from just reading expressions or body language?
SPEAKER_00:Right. So it's very different from expressions in body language, although that is actually a layer in the advanced facial intelligence work. But really, what it is is it's looking at the features, markings, and wrinkles on our faces to understand our personality, our health, the way our emotions, the way we access our emotions. It's all about a personality blueprint that is part of your innate design. So the features that you're born with and that you grow into, but then also how you're actually doing life in accordance with or in opposition to that innate design by way of scars, wrinkles, changes in features to understand who someone is, how they connect, how they communicate, how they do life. So it's more than just saying, Oh, did you just lie to me? It's oh, okay. What does that expression mean when you make it?
SPEAKER_01:So, like you've said that the face is it's like a mirror to the mind and the spirit. So, can you walk us through how someone might begin to read their own face to better understand themselves?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. So there's four main things that any feature on the face can tell you. Um, so one is where the work originally began, is it's a potential for a health marker. So face reading began in ancient China as a diagnostic tool for health. And as the ancient doctors started seeing, oh, okay, we can map each area of the face to the meridians in the body. So if anybody's ever had acupuncture, you know that all those meridian points were mapped out thousands of years ago. And they all kind of culminate in the face. So the face maps to the liver, the kidney, all the systems. And so any feature can tell you something about the state of those health markers. It can tell you about the personality and emotional set points of someone, it can tell you something about their time of life. So there's a spot on the face for each year from one to 100. So you can kind of map, oh, where did that scar when when you got that scar? Where is it marking? What do those two times have to do with where you're at right now? And it also has each feature says something about our intuition. So the type of intuition we have and that we have access to to help us discern the intangibles in life. So that's all the information that we get from like each feature.
SPEAKER_01:So is this like saying, oh, you've got you know crow's feet, you've got all these lines around your eyes, you must be like a really happy person because now you're smiling a whole lot. Is that what you're talking about? Or is it like my nose is really big, therefore my liver must not be working properly? Like struggling to understand exactly how this works.
SPEAKER_00:It's both. So these are joy lines in facial politics, right? So you're exactly right. If you have them in abundance, then that usually means you smile a lot, a genuine smile. So those are the wrinkles that we like to see on faces and hope people never ever get rid of. Um, but it also speaks to like the nose. So, for example, in that example I gave with my client, a prominent nose is one of the features that speaks to how much of a perfectionist we are, how much we pay attention to detail, how much control we need, with the intention of paying attention to all those little things because we want to create beautiful experiences for other people. The intuition that's associated with that is a strong sense of spatial energy. So in her case, or do you want go ahead, ask the question.
SPEAKER_01:No, I was gonna say, like, isn't this just the nose that I was born with?
SPEAKER_00:It can be, yes, but that nose that you're born with says something about how you do the world from the perspective of how much you pay attention to detail, how much perfectionism comes into play in all the things you do. Uh whether you're here to create beautiful experiences for people or you're here to nurture and hug them, because those are two very different things, even though they both mean that someone may have a beautiful experience in your presence. The nose will indicate how perfect you make it, so how it looks and feels, and the hug will indicate how you touch somebody's.
SPEAKER_01:I suddenly feel the need to hide my nose. Yeah, no, you have a beautiful nose. Thank you. So by my nose, can you tell that I'm like a people pleaser and a perfectionist and a bit of a control freak? Are you able to see that? Is that what you're saying that you are?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I can be for sure. Yeah, well, you know what? I honestly I'm not seeing that coming from your nose necessarily. Your nose says to me that you care about the experience people have with you. So it's about the experience that people have with you, not necessarily that the environment is perfect. It's like, okay, am I touching their heart? And I think the if you are a perfectionist, it's not coming from the same energy, it's coming from a different place. So this is what the features will tell us. Perfectionism from the place of a nose, which is part of the royal archetype, is about making sure that the energy feels right so that people walk into a room and they can feel it. And it's also about the person who owns the nose being in control of the energy so that they can take a full breath in the room and feel really good and safe. And whereas perfectionism, if you describe yourself as a perfectionist and you don't have lots of royal features, then potentially it's coming from a different motivator. And that's kind of the beauty of the work is figuring out the motivators by way of the face.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, there's a lot of information. So it's not just clear cut, this is your nose, this is your personality type. There's a lot of other information that that comes into play when trying to figure out what's happening.
SPEAKER_00:Right, because we all have noses, but we have it on different bases. So each nose means something, but it's unique in the way it's combined with all the other features on each face.
SPEAKER_01:So a lot of my listeners, they struggle with people pleasing, overgiving, and losing themselves in relationships, as I did for a very long time. How can understanding your own face or even noticing features in other people, how can that help create healthier conditions for us?
SPEAKER_00:So I think it's important to understand first what your face says, and then when you know what how to read a face, then you can see what other people's faces about are saying about their experience and their experience with you. But I think that each of us can be a people pleaser or stay in relationships that don't serve us for different reasons based on our faces. So if we were to use your face as an example, if you're okay with that.
SPEAKER_01:Please please do. I'm afraid to ask, but yes, I'm super curious.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so the way that we read a face typically is I will look at first what's the thing that's just kind of blinking at me, like giving me this blinking light, saying, Hey, look at me, I've got something to tell you about this person. So one of the first things I notice about you is that beautiful curly hair and the bright sparkly eyes. So those two features in and of themselves fall under the archetype of the captivator. And one of the things that the captivator uh struggles with is an interesting thing because you were saying, Oh, I'm so introverted, I don't like to go out. But part of that is because a captivator feels everything. They feel people, they are the empaths. So I know we use empath a lot as a buzzword, but captivators, still curly hair, bright sparkly eyes, really are true empaths. They feel with their heart and they feel the emotions of other people. So even though they're meant to be out there, because captivators are supposed to be in the spotlight, they may shy away from the spotlight because of the empathic overwhelm of being around a lot of people. And so when you can feel people and you feel that they're sad, you feel that they're upset, as a heart-centered being with all that captivator energy, you're going to want to help them. You're going to want to do something for them. And so then you end up pleasing them and depleting yourself when you don't know how to have those boundaries of, okay, this isn't mine, it's not mine to take, it's not mine to carry. It belongs to them. But they're letting that you can feel it, learn to feel it and say, Okay, I feel that emotion from you. I don't need to take it from you. I'm just here to recognize it and see you. Not, I'm not the purpose catalyst to your healing all the time. And so that can cause codependency because of your face. Just those two features is probably a big key to that. Now, people who aren't captivators can also be codependent based on their other features. The other thing that I see is that you have this beautiful, nice, round, full face, which is very much a nurturer. And so, nurturers, that's one of the archetypes, they are the ones who take care of other people. So, not from the heart-centered space, but from the that kind of mother energy space where I make sure all your needs are met, I, you know, feed you, and I make sure your clothes are out, and I make sure there's so the taking care of. And often nurturers can overgive, not receive enough. And then when they don't get the feedback they need to reassure them that they are giving enough, they will do more and more and more and and lose confidence in themselves because they're like, Well, this person still isn't happy, and I'm cooking for them and I'm cleaning for them, and I'm doing all these things, and they're still not happy. Must be me. Because that's the mentality and the programming of a nurturer. So when you understand that, then you can be like, okay, I don't have to overgive, or all the other strategies that come with now recognizing who you are and how you do the world, that your face is trying to help you understand every time you look in the mirror.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you've hit the nail right on the head. Like anyone who's listened to my podcast knows I don't like to cook or clean, but there are many other ways that I tend to nurture and and kind of overgive. Um, but that that's interesting that you could say that just from curly hair, sparkly eyes, and a round face.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And you know, and I think that's the thing too. Nurturing means taking care of people, and that means anticipating their needs, knowing their needs. So it also means feeding them, but that means feeding their soul, feeding their heart, feeding so it, you know, it doesn't have to be as literal as cooking. It can be, I'm the one that will sit down and have a cup of tea with you and give you the hug. And, you know, if you need something, I'm right there, that kind of person.
SPEAKER_01:Very cool. I love that. Um, and yeah, feel free to tell me anything about my face. I'm pretty open on the podcast. So I appreciate that. Um, so you mentioned that there uh when we were talking earlier, you mentioned that there was one feature that's especially important when it comes to connection and conflict resolution. Can you share what that is and how we can use that knowledge every day?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. So the one that I think is most important for that, and that I I use it because it's easy to recognize and um although like with my glasses, it's harder to see today, but are the eyebrows. So one of the things that the eyebrows reveal to us is what type of a decision maker somebody is. So depending on the shape and the thickness of the eyebrows, you can discern what people take into account when they're making a decision. So, for example, my eyebrows are pretty straight. So, for the most part, um I look at things from a logical perspective. So, eyebrows are about confidence and logic and strategy and all of those things. So, when I'm making a decision, for the most part, it has to make sense to me first. So give me the A B C's, do it in a direct linear way, and if it works in my brain, then I will say yes. Now you have um slightly more rounded eyebrows, and I know we manipulate our eyebrows, so you kind of go with you look for the natural shape, but then you also take into account, if you change the shape, what that how that is influencing your innate decision-making positioning. But um, assuming that's your innate shape, rounded, then that means that although you value logic because the eyebrows are about logic, you take a people-centered approach to your decision making. So that means that even if I gave you all the ABCs, if I didn't tell you how it would be good for the people in your life that are going to be influenced by that decision, it would still be harder for you to say yes until that was taken into account because it's important to you to consider everyone, not just your own perspective. Does that resonate with you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Does that does that change anything when it comes to conflict and trying to communicate in people with people in everyday life?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I think it does because often conflict leads from a missed communication and then a misunderstanding. So if I just say to you, hey Angela, we we need to go to the grocery and do this and do this and do this, okay, are you coming? And everything makes sense, it's all in a line, and you're like, wait, no, I'm not sure. Then I can be like, Well, what's so hard about that? And we can start a big discussion around it because I'm thinking, I just told you that we're gonna get all these things done and it's only gonna take an hour. And you're thinking, but what about the puppy that's gonna be left alone for and so I didn't take that into account, and so then you're thinking, but you're not seeing all the things that are outside of that list, so you know, and then uh there's the peaky kind of eyebrows, you know, the ones like the Kardashians have with the all almost like an upside-down V. Those people, especially if they're naturally shaped that way, they're really quick decision makers. So they can make a decision on the fly, but people with your eyebrows or my eyebrows, we need a little bit more time to go through what's important to us. And so often in con, like in conversation and communication, if I had peaky eyebrows, I'd be like, okay, just make a decision now. And you're like, but wait, I need to. And so then if I have peaky eyebrows and you have rounded eyebrows, I need to know. I need to give you a little bit more time and talk about the people because I've already made up my mind, but you don't think that way and you don't work that way.
SPEAKER_01:So you're saying it just kind of helps you understand where the other person's coming from and what their natural tendencies and decision making are.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And what they need from you in order to get on board with you. Because often then, when we don't meet the needs of the other person in a way that is honors who they are, then they are less apt to want to honor what we want. And then it just becomes a battle of wills or a battle of dominance or control as opposed to a coming together of understanding.
SPEAKER_01:I have one eyebrow that's different than the other. One goes up higher than the other. So I have to kind of like push my eyebrows down on one side, lift them up on the other so that they're a little bit more even. And I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if that just makes me look like I'm questioning things. I I don't know if that means anything.
SPEAKER_00:What side is the one that's higher?
SPEAKER_01:So it's the one on the left side is is higher than than the right.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So in facial intelligence, the left side of our face is about our private life, our personal life, and the right side of our face is about our public life. So if that eyebrow is higher on the left, which is your private life, then what that says to me, so the positioning of the eyebrows can sometimes um will indicate that perfectionism, kind of royal aspect that you may have. So that eyebrow says in your personal life, you have high standards, you uh really care about the experiences that other people have with you, that you hold yourself to high standards and you hold other people to high standards, and you really want to create those beautiful experiences for the people who are closer to you. It's more important necessarily than in your public life. In your public life, you can be less less rigid, a little bit more um open because your private life has higher stakes for you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree. That's I didn't know if there was any significance to that, but you're very correct in what you've said.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that's great. Thank you for validating that for me. And you know, the thing is too, this this may come from experiences over time, like you were saying, like, oh, maybe you raise that one eyebrow more as part of the experiences that you've had. So if you are one who didn't hold your standards in previous relationships because of that captivator nature and stuff that made you give in to other people more, now looking in the mirror, you see that higher eyebrow every day. So your system is saying, hey, remember, we've got really high standards in our personal relationships. We're not going to allow that to happen anymore. And so your face has molded into a way that when you look in the mirror, the unconscious face reader in you is saying, Oh, yeah, this is really important in our private life. We don't want to get to that place where we feel the way we used to feel.
SPEAKER_01:Very interesting. I don't think I'll ever be able to look at my eyebrows the same way. That's my intention. That's great. Thank you for that. So in codependency, people often feel stuck repeating the same relationship dynamics. So, how can facial intelligence help someone recognize those patterns and begin to shift them?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, I think we've talked a little bit about it by using you as a beautiful model and reference. So thank you for that. But I think part of it is when you begin to know who you are and you know how your faces map to the behaviors of the archetypes, then you know, okay, as a nurturer, for example, my intention is to give and support and take care of other people. When I get out of balance, I'm overgiving and I'm over-supporting, and then I lose confidence. So I have to know how to, I have to learn how to not let that happen because that is the way I lose my power. And part of that is then knowing, okay, when a nurturer energy is depleted, what fills that cup back up? It's things like reassurance and gratitude and being able to ask for help. It's knowing that some things your partner might not be able to give to you, but you might be able to get elsewhere. So, for example, if a nurturer is with a partner that is very captivator, so I'm only using those because we can see that in your face. So that captivator may need all the attention they because oftentimes an out-of-balance captivator will either be the complete introvert or the one who sucks all the energy out of the room because it always has to be about them. And so that nurturer may not get the attention they need from the captivator, because the captivator will always turn something around and make it about them. So if you said, Oh, I'm really tired, you're tired. Well, I'm tired too, and you know, it'll always turn around. So where do you go? Then you know, okay, I may love my partner, but I don't get that from them. So I'll go to my best friend and say, I just need to have a cup of tea and talk about my day. Is that okay? And get the filling of their cup in the appropriate place without asking the partner to change or resenting them until they're able to be healed enough to see you as well. So knowing who you are by way of your face allows you to take some power back in knowing what signs of the depletion really are. And that's just one strategy, but uh how to use the right strategies to fill you back up to the best energetic version of yourself.
SPEAKER_01:At the beginning of the interview, you mentioned that you had a patient who came in, she had severe anxiety, and I think it was the nose that you looked at and you thought we need to kind of take a different direction. So, what was it about that person and and and the nose that kind of make you made you change directions and focus on something else? And how did you go about doing that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so one of the tools that I was taught in my coaching practice was that you just keep asking the same question to the client. You keep saying, How is that a problem? And how is that a problem? And how is that a problem? Until they eventually come to an answer that is a universal core wound for everybody. And that just didn't seem to be working. So I was like, well, why isn't this working? And then when I started reading these face reading books and started studying with a mentor, when that client walked into my office, what I noticed was that she had a very royal nose. So it's a prominent nose, but it also had a little bump in it. It was perfect for her face. But what that nose meant was that she was very royal. And part of the characteristics of the royal archetype are being really detail-oriented, wanting to create beautiful experiences for other people, being perfectionistic, everything looking perfect on the outside, but like the junk drawer in the house, it's a mess on the inside. That was who she was. And what she was how what she worked at was that she was a hairstylist in a very busy, very high standard salon. So here she is doing all of these things, but feeling very anxious at the end of the day and feeling like there she she couldn't do enough. Well, the other side of a royal is an extremely sensitive intuition. So it's an environmental sensitivity. So being able to walk into a room and just feel the space, knowing if you know the plant over there has been moved five millimeters by somebody else overnight, um, knowing how everything feels all the time. And that is a gift of a royal because that allows them to create a beautiful experience energetically, but it can be so overwhelming, especially when you're touching people or people are coming and going, and the whole thing all day long is about perfectionism and energy, and people are relying on you to feel good all the time, just by the nature of you know, they come in looking one way and they want to leave feeling. So her big problem was the energetic overwhelm of her job and of her own desire to be as perfect as she could be as a royal. So once we I got that, because that's what her nose said, then she was able to say, Oh my god, that is how I feel. Like I walk into this space and I automatically feel drained, and I didn't even know what that was all about. So we began, and she never thought about energy that way, and never thought about any of that. So after that, she started her own journey. So she left the salon and created a salon in her home where she controlled the energy, she controlled how many people came in, only took her own clients, and then went on to study yoga and Reiki to learn how to take better control of her energetic sensitivity in order to live more fulfilled in the world rather than drained all the time. And now that's what she does. She she is a Reiki master and she's written a book and she teaches other people energy management because that's been her biggest issue her whole life was managing the energy in the spaces around. And we wouldn't have gotten there if I didn't see it in her nose.
SPEAKER_01:And out of all the people that you've worked with, is this like the most powerful transformation story that you've experienced?
SPEAKER_00:I think that is one that's very memorable to me because that was the moment when I realized, okay, this work is important. This work helps people see themselves and it it can change the way they do life. Um, but I think most recently, um, I had a client who came to me and she just said, you know what, I'm just doing this because I saw you do a talk once and and I think I'm done. Like, I think there's nothing left for me in life. Like, I'm done. She was just like, I have my kids are grown, she was divorced, I had enough money to live the rest of her life without doing whatever anything, and she was just, I think I'm done.
SPEAKER_01:And I was suicidal done, or just yeah, or that and yes, that, or it's okay if I died tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00:It would be okay. Um and but I said, Well, you can't be done because you're here. So what do you need to see? And what she was really done with was identifying with all the things in her past that weren't allowing her to find the next great thing in her life. And so, you know, one of her things on her face that we saw or that I saw was she had this um I don't know if people I don't have it, but a line here. Have you ever seen that where people have a line there?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know if you just kind of the the bridge, the bridge of the nose between the eyes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and it was really prominent. Um, and that often indicates. So I talk about three things, right? It can indicate um potential stomach issues because it's part of the nurture meridians, it can indicate um a break with life, uh a big life change at the end of the 30s into the 40s, or it can indicate mother issues. It's often the first indicator of issues with mother issues, and she had digestive issues. She got divorced shortly after her 40s and huge mother issues in her life that were now that she was no longer like she was an empty nester, in essence, both of her children had gone on and started living their own lives. Those mother issues really came to the surface because she couldn't transmute that into her own mothering journey, which helped her to say, okay, well, I'm being a good mother, I'm being a better mother than my mom. Now she had to deal with what had driven her her whole life as an adult, which was a I'm not my mom, to okay, then who am I now? And that's what we began to work through. And she found her own way, and she's an incredible intuitive channeler, which we didn't she was not putting out into the world. And so we still work together today, and she's so different. Like if you saw her face from then to now, like 18 months ago, the changes are incredible. And you know, the changes in her face are a byproduct of the work she's done because now her face can't must reflect to her who she really is inside, not the parts that she didn't want to see anymore.
SPEAKER_01:When you say that there's been a change in her face, that line at the at the bridge of the nose between the eyes is still there.
SPEAKER_00:Or is it there? It's there, it's less. So sometimes they disappear, um, but it's definitely less, which means that you know, I often say that the face is is telling the story of you. So that trauma with her mother will always be part of her story, but it doesn't have to be the one that's blinking all the time at you in the first thing you see. So it's definitely gone down. And she hasn't seen her mother in, I don't know, 10 years. And she's taking a trip to go see her mother because her mother lives in New Zealand and she lives here in Canada in the fall. And I suspect, oh, and I'm getting goosebumps.
SPEAKER_01:So I suspect that that will be the culminating of the healing, and um her face will be different again when she comes back from so instead of racing to get Botox to fix some of these lines on your face, maybe we should just be getting more curious as to what's what our face is trying to tell us and maybe work on that instead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and or at least know what it is that you're doing when you Botox, what you're erasing, what lesson, what warning. Because, you know, for me, we're living longer. And so, of course, that means that we're taking, we have more time to make the expressions that create the wrinkles, because wrinkles come from when we do our facial movements. And so, in the living of the longer, the more you make the same expression, the more that's going to carve that line into your face. And it's part of how you respond in your life. So if you take away the ability to see the response, it doesn't mean you're not making the response. It just means your face can't reflect it to you, which is almost worse because then you can't see the evidence of either the behavior that's really good for you, like smiling, or the behavior that says, Hey, I need to ask for some help because I'm always overgiving here. And if you understand what you're doing and then you Botox it, then at least you can be like, All right, I know that I'm I don't want to see my overgiving. I want to still hide from that. I'm not ready to fix it internally.
SPEAKER_01:So for somebody who's hiding these like deep, deep 11s uh with Botox, you just need to remember that they were there and make sure someone knows. If I go to see you, I need to let you know that they were there before.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like nowadays, because fillers and Botox are so common, part of my intake is I say, Have you had any cosmetic surgery or procedures so that I understand the face that I'm looking at in the moment? Because one of the times early in my career, I was like, okay, this work is infallible. Everything I say, people are always like, yep, yep, yep. And I was working with a woman and I said to her, because she had no lines on her forehead, and the forehead represents the decade of the 20s, and usually that's where we get all our surprises. So it's the lines that show up are records of the lessons that we've learned in that coming out stage of our life. And she had no lines. And I said to her, Wow, you you must have had a really nice decade. And she said, Oh no, it was horrible. That all of these things happened. And I was like, Oh, okay, am I wrong? And then later on in the session, she said, Oh, by the way, though, I botox. And then I said, Oh, okay. So you can only read what you see, but also knowing these things, it's a way to talk to people about, oh, okay, well, all of a sudden now you're bumping up against that same issue that you had when you were 20, and you're getting more and more of that. Well, maybe it's because you can't see the lesson in the mirror anymore. So your system's saying, Oh, what we need to hit some betrayal again because we didn't learn those betrayal lessons well enough. I don't see it in the mirror. So, you know, our face is a record of our life experiences for us as well to help protect us and guide us, not just to make us look older and you know, deny that we've lived all these many beautiful years.
SPEAKER_01:I went to medical school in my 20s with two kids, and that definitely took a toll on my forehead. Could definitely see it there. So, for someone who's curious and maybe a little skeptical about this, what's a simple practice or exercise that they could try after listening to this episode to get a taste of facial intelligence in their own life?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think, you know, one of the things that I like to give people, especially people who are not so happy with their wrinkles, is um a little exercise I call the five-minute facelift. So if you're looking in the mirror and you're like, oh, I don't like that line, or I don't like these lines, like those 11s or whatever, then part of understanding what your face is trying to tell you is knowing that you are making an expression that's causing the line. So what I suggest people do is put a little piece of tape across the place where the line is, when you're alone, of course, and just go through life for 15 minutes, half an hour. And when you feel that tape pull, know that you're making the expression that's causing the line and stop and think about what am I thinking, what am I feeling, what's happening right now, because that's what your face is trying to tell you. Like, oh, every time you make this face, you're thinking about your mother-in-law and uh how critical she is of you, because you just are doing the dishes and she tells you to do the dishes wrong all the time. It's like, oh, okay. Doing something that invokes a memory of somebody criticizing me, and that's why making this super critical face. What if I didn't, what if I stopped bringing up that memory? What if I had a conversation with them? What if I realized I'm it doesn't matter how I do the dishes, they're my dishes. That's how our face tries to speak to us, but we don't recognize that. So with the tape, especially around things like wrinkles, which are easier to know, then you can do a little bit of a self-assessment to say, okay, you know, we'll start journaling around that with various things. And then you're accessing your own internal face reader and understanding what she wants you to know.
SPEAKER_01:Do you find that a lot of people stop you and ask you about their face? Like you must go to a dinner party, and people are just like, What does my face tell you right now?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I often get that. I'll get people saying, Oh, what does my face say? Or they they hide their face, or they'll just be like, Oh, it says I'm really tired, right? And I'm like, Well, I don't know. But yeah. So it's one of those things. It's like intuition, it's always there, but you kind of either keep it in the background or you keep it in the foreground, depending on whether you're working or not.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm sure people are very curious about uh about what you do and what what their face says about them.
SPEAKER_00:Michelle, where can people find you? Probably the best way to find me is on Instagram. It's just Michelle MButt, that's my handle, or facialintelligence.co. That there's a channel there for that too. And I post tips and things like that there. That's the best place.
SPEAKER_01:And you've got a free masterclass as well. So I'm gonna put a link to that in the show notes. I'm gonna put the links to your uh social media and your free masterclass. Michelle, thank you so much for being here today. This was a really fascinating conversation. I've never had anybody read my face. It was a little bit intimidating, but I appreciate your kindness and you're so on the mark for with many, many of the things that you've said. And I know that a lot of my listeners are gonna get a lot out of this and see some of this in themselves as well. It's probably gonna help their relationships, especially if their partner's got really peaky eyebrows. And, you know, maybe they might react to the relationships a little bit differently after hearing this. So I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom. And it's been a real gift to have you here.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for letting me share this work with you and being such an open canvas for me to demonstrate the work.
SPEAKER_01:Well, in the podcast, I've been pretty open, so I I don't think there's too too much left to hide. So, and to all my listeners, thank you so much for hanging out with us today. If you'd like the episode, I'd love it if you would share it with someone who needs to hear it and heck, just share it with the whole world. I'd love to help more people out there. I'd also love it if you'd be so kind as to follow me and maybe leave a comment. I'm most active on Facebook at the Codependent Doctor and Threads and Instagram at DRAngela Downey. I wish you all a great week as you learn to foster a better relationship with the most important person in your life, yourself. I'll talk to you again in two weeks. So until then, take care for now, and you've got this. Thanks for spending time with me today. I hope something in this episode resonated with you. If it did, hit follow, subscribe, or share it with someone who needs to hear it today. The codependent doctor is not medical advice and doesn't replace speaking to your healthcare provider. If you're in a crisis, please go to the near DR or call 911 and corporate your local mental health health line. I'll be back here next week with more important stories and strategies because we're healing together.