67: How Women Can Take Back Financial Power: A Conversation with Phil Weiss

In this episode of The Codependent Doctor Podcast, I’m joined by Phil Weiss for a conversation about women, money, and financial confidence. We talk about the patterns he often sees in women who are caregivers, people-pleasers, or overgivers, and how society has shaped so many women to seek security with money before ever feeling true freedom. Phil shares why women often know more than they think they do financially, but may struggle with confidence because they’ve been left out of the conversation for so long.

This is an empowering and practical conversation for any woman who wants to feel more informed, more secure, and more confident with money.

You can connect with Phil Weiss here:

Instagram, Facebook, , LinkedIn

Download Phil’s free guide: 5 Things Every Woman Should Know About Finance

This episode includes a paid partnership with BetterHelp. Click this link, betterhelp.com/drdowney, to get 10% off your first month.

📗 My Books: Enough as I Am (codependency recovery) Enough as I Grow (365 day guide journal). Affiliate disclosure: I am an affiliate parner with Amazon and therefore receive a commission at no cost to you.

📘 Great Books on Codependency

📙My Favorite books: 

Daring Greatly by Brenee Brown, It Begins With You by Jillian Turecki, Becoming Bulletproof by Evy Poumpouras, The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins, Real Self-Care by Pooja Lakshmin. 

Affiliate disclosure: I am an affiliate parner with Amazon and therefore receive a commission at no cost to you.

📰 Sign up for my Newsletter

🛜 My Website DrAngelaDowney

Email: codependentdoctor@gmail.com
Social Media links: Here
🎵 Music: Touching The Air by Graceful Movement

Transcript

Why Money Feels So Heavy

SPEAKER_00 0:44

If you've ever felt overwhelmed by money, unsure of where to start, afraid to ask questions, or just stuck in a cycle of overgiving and undersaving, this episode is going to be for you. I'm joined by Phil Weiss, and we're diving into a conversation that goes beyond budgeting. We're talking about financial self-trust, the emotional side of money, and what it really means to build security on your own terms. We're going to get into the cultural messages that women receive about money, how to stop outsourcing your financial power, and the simple steps that you can take even today to feel more in control of your future. This isn't about shame or fear. It's about taking your power back one decision at a time. Welcome to the Codependent Doctor, a podcast where we unpack the messy, beautiful journey of healing from codependency. If you're burned out from people pleasing, stuck in unhealthy patterns, or just tired of putting yourself last, you're in the right place. I'm Dr. Angela Downey, a family doctor and fellow codependent, and I'm here to help you reconnect to your authentic self, one honest conversation at a time. Here we go. Hello to all my wonderful podcast listeners, and welcome to the Codependent Doctor Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Angela Downey, a family doctor and fellow codependent, here to help us untangle our patterns, heal our hearts, and reclaim our peace. For today's episode, we've got a guest with us. Phil Weiss is the founder of a prized wealth management and brings over 25 years of experience in personal finance and investing. He's a CFA, CPA, and registered life planner who's passionate about helping women feel confident and secure with their money. After stepping in to manage his family's finances during his mother's illness, Phil saw firsthand how financially vulnerable women can be. And it's been his mission ever since to empower others with the tools and the knowledge that they need. As women, many of us were never taught to feel confident around money. We were taught to be good with saving, but not necessarily encouraged to invest or plan or take the lead in our financial lives. And for those of us who've struggled with codependency, whether it's with people pleasing or overgiving in relationships, that can show up in some really harmful financial patterns. So this conversation is about breaking that cycle. It's about learning how to trust ourselves, make empowered decisions, and stop outsourcing our financial security. Whether you're in a relationship or on your own, you deserve to feel safe and informed and in control of your money. Phil has a lot of wisdom to share that can help get you there. Welcome, Phil. I'm so glad that you're able to join us today. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 3:17

I'm well. How are you, Angela?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

I'm I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Thank you. Phil, one of the traditions on my show is that we discuss what we're grateful for because when we stop and think about the things that we're grateful for, it helps us train our brain to focus on what's working instead of what's missing or what's broken. So I'd like to ask you, is there anything that you're grateful for today?

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Well, I could give you a lot of things, to be honest. It took me my my my life, my career has had a lot of turns. And when somebody recently asked me if there's anything I would do differently in my venture to get here, my answer is no. Because all those things I'm grateful for all those things that I went through because going through those got me to where I am today. And if I look at things from the perspective of my family, from perspective of my business, all those things, I couldn't be happier with where I am today.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Yeah, it really sucks sometimes when you're going through some of these bad moments. But when those moments are over and you're able to reflect, it's it's amazing the things that you do learn from from those bad times. And you learn from the good times too, but it's how we build character and how we um, you know, get our little nicks and scars. And it's our ability to get back up and to learn from those things that really help build our characters. And um, no, I I think that it's I love that you've brought that up. I think it's really important to acknowledge that we've all come a really long way and we've learned a lot of things along the way. For myself, I'm I'm grateful for the mentors and the people who have come in and out of my life and have taught me things and have guided me along the way. And it's amazing how some mentors have been there for 15 or 20 years. Other mentors kind of just kind of came in and told me what I needed to know for those sometimes 30 seconds or a minute, and yet it completely changed the direction of my life. So it's amazing all these people that come into our lives and who invest time in us and invest their resources in us and that help make us better people and who we are today. So I think I it's I I met youth uh through somebody else, and um I had written an article for that person. Uh, and it was about my mentors and about all the amazing people who had come in and out of my life. So I'm glad that we're doing this interview, and that's one of the things I thought of was because the person who introduced me to you was somebody I'd written this article for. And mentors are incredible people, and we need to take the time to acknowledge that people have invested time in us and our wellness and our journey.

SPEAKER_02 6:04

I agree completely. And it's also why, as part of what I do, I volunteer where I have opportunities to mentor. And that's actually the person that asked me that question was somebody through a one of the organizations that I'm part of. We are there to help college students that are studying financial planning. And I'm there to help mentor them, and that's where that question came from. And so I under like it's a really important thing to be able to not just find mentors, but also to be a mentor. I think they're both important.

Phil’s Story And A Wake-Up Call

SPEAKER_00 6:38

And to share your knowledge, share your skills. Yeah, yeah, that's uh that's very important. So, Phil, maybe we can start by asking you about your journey and what led to you becoming a financial strategist and a coach, and how did this work become so meaningful for you?

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Sure, I'd be happy to tell my the story. And so we talk about mentors, and like I'll tell you that I've also learned that we have two types of role models. You can have good ones and you can have bad ones, but you can still learn from the bad ones. And so, my journey growing up in my house, it was the typical model that you often hear for my generation is that my father was responsible for the finances, my mom was responsible for my sister and me. But here's the thing when it came to finances, to say my father wasn't good at it is to put it mildly. We had no savings, we had no credit. We I remember when I was old enough to drive, having to go to local utilities to pay them because services had been turned off. It was just not a good financial situation. When it was time for me to go to college, I was told go anywhere you want. And I wanted to be a doctor and I was uh going to be a psychology major, and I chose to go to Duke because I thought that would give me the best chance of getting into medical school. With the benefit of hindsight, I might have made a different choice because I ended up while I did a lot to stay in school at the end of my junior year. I had even gone to speak to the president of the university because of some promises that they made. But we agreed that I needed to take some time off because I owed them enough money that I couldn't finish until that was paid. So I was six courses from graduating and I left. Was living home and it was a toxic situation. I didn't want to stay there, so I packed up and I moved across the country and I moved to Tucson for about a year and a half. I decided I was ready to go back to school. But when I was ready to go back, while my grades were good, I didn't think they were good enough to get me into medical school. And I decided I wanted to study accounting because this psychology major, I was like, that's just more school and I can't afford that. And Duke doesn't offer undergraduate accounting degrees. So I had residency in Arizona from my time there. I had residency in New Jersey where I'm from, and I decided I'd get a better job if I went to Rutgers and if I went to University of Arizona, so I came back home. I went back to school. There were times when I still didn't I had paid off the debt, but there were times I still didn't have enough money. So if you remember the credit card checks that just get in the mail sometimes, I use those sometimes to pay rent, sometimes to pay tuition. I knew it wasn't ideal, but it was the only way that I could do it, and the only way I was gonna get to graduate and be able to get on my own feet was to do that. I finished school, I moved back home. And one day I came home to get the mail, and there were these credit card bills and they had my name on them. But they weren't mine. I found out that my father had forged my name to get credit because he couldn't get credit on his own.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Ouch.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Yeah. So I used that I was paying rent to my parents, and so I used that rent to pay those off, but they stayed in my they just took them out of my name and put them in my father's. And while all this was going on, my mother went back to school and she became an occupational therapist and she ultimately started her own business. And I know in my heart that she did that because she wanted to be strong enough financially that she could be on her own. But unfortunately, my mom was diagnosed with stage four breast cancer not long after she started her business. And that's when we found out how bad the financial situation at home really was. And my mom asked me to help. We found that those credit cards that had been put into my father's name, they were now all delinquent and in collection. The mortgage was in danger of being foreclosed on. My parents had to sell their house while my mother was undergoing treatment. I did what I could to help, but unfortunately, my mom didn't make it. She had neglected herself. And like I said, it was stage four. It ended up metastasizing to her brain, and she passed. And so now I view my work as trying to help other women not go through or avoid the kind of things that my mother had to endure or face. And that's where I work with women facing the beginnings in my business. And I'm in addition to being a CPA with a tax background, I'm a CFA charter holder. So that gives me investment background. And then I became a registered life planner, was just trying to bring in that more holistic side and go back to like the psychology roots and really get to know my clients and what matters to them. And that becomes that's a very important part of what I do as well.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

That could have gone very differently from you growing up in a household where finances weren't really maybe understood by your parents or prioritized. I mean, you could have just continued on that pattern, not understanding what was going on. What do you think it was that made you realize, okay, this is not a healthy relationship with money. I need to do things differently. What made you come around and realize that?

SPEAKER_02 11:51

I think there were little bits and pieces. I knew that there were some in my family that weren't in that position. But I'll also say that I remember when I was at Duke, and I haven't thought about this for a long time, but I remember talking to some of my friends about some things and just saying, like realizing that just wasn't normal. And the fact that I decided to study accounting really made it a lot easier for me because that's I really started to understand things better. And I developed an interest in investing, which is how I which was why I did some things in that area and just realized the importance of saving and preparing for the future. So it's just being exposed to some people that had a better handle on things. And I think my mother had some knowledge, but I asked people sometimes what was the relationship or how was money viewed in your home growing up, and what were the values around it? A lot of times in my house it was that way. It was more autocratic where she didn't have much sex.

unknown 12:54

Right?

How Women Learn Money Roles

SPEAKER_02 12:54

And for a long time she wasn't earning anything, so it that kind of put her in a position where it was hard for her to have a say because she didn't look at the she didn't you know, some families now you see, even when one person earns, the other person takes care of paying the bills or something like that. That wasn't what happened. He did all of it, so she just didn't have awareness. And she, I remember when she started working, like she did get a couple credit cards and things like that, that she got her own credit. She wasn't she didn't pay the balance off in full, which is really what you should do all the time. But at least she was more responsible than he was. She was never delinquent or anything like that. So that and some relatives, and like I said, I think really it was seeing more my peers and talking to them and seeing what they had experienced that really made me realize it's not right.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Yeah. So you probably don't you don't know this about me, but I was actually an accountant before going to medical school.

SPEAKER_01 14:52

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 14:53

I switched to accounting. I did my first year of university and I failed. I did not do very well, and I was told I would never get into medicine. So then I switched and I went into a college program and and eventually worked in finance and accounting, but I always regretted not being in medicine. So I went back to school when I was older and became a doctor. So we kind of you wanted to be a doctor, but decided to go into accounting, and then you know, we kind of like did things backwards, but that's okay. Our lives are meant to take these twists and turns, and it just goes to show nothing is ever set in stone. And uh yeah, we have so many opportunities available to us, and we just need to grab them when we can. So, in your work, what financial patterns do you often see in women? So women who are caregivers, let's say sometimes we're people pleasers or overgivers. What kind of financial patterns do you see in in women like this?

SPEAKER_02 15:50

So I think one thing that so I will tell you that not there are couples or some women I work that are very financially savvy. But one thing that's really interesting to me is one of the questions that I'll ask during the early part of working together is what's important about money to you? And the two most common answers I get I'll I'll call these the same thing, security or safety. But then there's also freedom. And if you think about it, it's really a progression, right? And I think especially when you have a woman who hasn't had a lot of impact or say in the finances or just doesn't have a lot of knowledge, I think it's falls more on that security or safety part. But as we grow and as we learn more and become more comfortable, we take this path that takes us from security to freedom.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

And and how do you think that's different from men? Like how do men tend to view money?

SPEAKER_02 16:48

So it's really interesting. One thing that's in a lot of cases, men and women, their knowledge about money is very similar, but men have a lot more confidence. Like I think studies and I've tried this on occasion when I have a group of women and I ask questions like I take I don't know out of the equation. And what you find is if you take I don't know out, men and women really have about the same level of knowledge. And I'm discounting those that haven't gone into a lot of study, but women just don't have the same level of confidence. And that you can see that in investing. I mean, the truth is that for the most part, women are better investors than men. And part of the reason for that is because of the fact that they don't have as much confidence or comfort, whatever you want to call it, they don't trade in and out. They don't have that false bravado that comes with thinking, oh, I I'm I'm right, I know about this, I'm gonna make this really quick decision without doing any any research or anything else, and it's gonna be right. And so I think that's a big difference. I think the knowledge level isn't as different as we think. It's just how we apply it and the level of men just have more confidence, but it doesn't, it's not confidence that's necessarily borne out in any way in the results. It's just that's how they feel.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

I feel as I've kind of grown and I've reached that level of security. I feel like I've got some financial safety there. Money's almost become like a tool now, where it's a tool that I can use it to get the things that I want. I can use it as a tool to grow, to learn more things. So I feel like my relationship with money has been changing over the years, but I don't think I would be able to do that if I didn't already have some safety.

Security First Then Freedom

SPEAKER_02 18:31

I think that's fair. And I I often think of money as a tool, and I'm gonna take that a little bit further too and say that I think we have a team of capital. It's not just money. It's time, energy, attention, and money. And as we go from safety to freedom, we can use that, the other element, money, to buy ourselves more time, to free up our energy and to free up our attention. I love to tell the story that the house that we live in when we moved here, the woman who owned the house before us, she had this tractor and she cut the grass. Like, I'm gonna buy the tractor from her. I'm gonna cut the grass because I'm gonna save money, is right? So I started cutting the grass. We have four kids at the time that we still own only three. And my favorite part was that while I drove the tractor, one of the kids would sit on my lap and I would drive around. But it was taking me three hours and I wasn't finishing. My wife found somebody that was cutting the grass for other people in the neighborhood. It was$40 when she asked him how much. Now I know his equipment was better than mine, and when I sold that tractor, I found out that it was really too small for the lot. But I said to myself, I don't care if it takes him 15 minutes. It's taking me three hours. That's$13 an hour. I know my time is worth way more than$13 an hour. Please let him cut the grass. And we still have somebody cut the grass for us to this day, and it's so much better because I'm not wasting that time. Instead of having a child sit on my lap, right? I can do things with my kids and have more fun and for us and for them, for me and for them. So it's great when you start to think of money. It's a it is really that tool, and it's a tool that can buy us other things. It's not just, and it's not just things, right? Like I said, it's time, it's our energy, it's our tension. It's all those things. Money is definitely a tool.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

I feel the same way about cleaning my house and scrubbing the toilet. There are so many other things that I am good at. Cleaning my house is not one of them, and it's not something that I enjoy doing at all. So, you know, investing that money into having somebody else help you with some of the things that you don't enjoy or that you just don't have time for. I just it just frees up resources, energy, happiness, right? Like I don't like, I would much rather be playing with my kids in the backyard than just begrudgingly cleaning up my house. Um and for your son uh sitting on your lap on the tractor, I would argue that that's actually probably a lot of fun for a kid.

unknown 21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

It was. So you know, it's some still some quality time uh with your child, but he's probably not sitting on your lap for three hours. He's probably enjoying about 15 minutes worth, and then he goes and he has his popsicle and um leaves you to cut the rust the rest of the grass. So yeah, no, it's interesting. Money is is a tool so that you can regain some of these things a little bit more freedom. You mentioned that men have a little bit more financial confidence. So, what are some small realistic steps that maybe women can take to feel more can in control of their money?

Confidence Gap And Investing Myths

SPEAKER_02 21:42

So there's two different ways to approach that, right? One is that you can find somebody, whether it's an advisor or a mentor or somebody like that. You can read and learn. I I take the view that anybody who wants to can do what I do. But in order to do it well, you have to have, I'll use another acronym to Kit, you have to have knowledge, the knowledge, the interest, and the time. So if you want to invest the time and have the interest, then you can do it. But if you can't, or you don't, not can't, because you can if you want to, right? But if you don't, then it makes sense to hire somebody to help you. So that's one thing. The other thing is investing you don't have to pick individual stocks and things like that. There are lots of low-cost index funds and things like that that you can use. Just pay yourself first. Find you work for somebody, you have a 401k or something like that, have money go into it every month. Get an understanding of at least how much you're spending and how much you're taking in to make sure that what you're taking in, your income, whatever that may be from, is greater than your spending. So at least you're not running in a deficit and building up debt. Like just think with some of the basic. Like, I know I could tell you a budget and people, a lot of people get cringe at that word, right? I remember when I first started and I had this woman, and she thought I was going to tell her that she couldn't buy a pair of shoes. And I'm like, I would never tell you that. Even when you go to the to the extreme of the people that tell you not to buy that expensive cup of coffee or something like that, look, you could do it's your money. You could do anything you want. But when I get into the the work that I do and trying to help you align your spending with your values, well now think about okay, is it worth it to me to get that cup of coffee? What else could I be doing? Instead. And if if that's really important to you, maybe because there's a social aspect and something like that that you really appreciate, you can do that. But just know what you're giving up. I think that's because I have a couple that I'm working with and they were out spending, or they're spending more than they thought. And they're like, well, how do we cut? And so we did the life planning work that I do. So we know what are the things that are most important to them. I said, so look at your spending through that lens. And if you have those things that are really important to you, if the spending is tied to that, that spending needs you don't really want to give up. But there are some things that you're spending money on, all of us, that are not aligned with what's important to us. And so when you have that is situation where you need to cut back, that's where you want to focus on cutting back, is those things that are less important to you, not the things that matter to you.

unknown 24:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

I have a budget uh that I use on a regular basis. I have I have for years. But one of the things that kind of started creeping in were all these like subscriptions for these TV shows that I wasn't watching, or these, I don't know, memberships to these games. Like it just, it was, it was ridiculous because those things don't mean anything to me. And I could very easily give them up. Whereas there are definitely some things, like I do like my occasional Starbucks coffee, not very often, but I do, I do like to go sometimes. And that's important to me. And that's not something that I want to take out of my budget. So there are definitely some things that are more important to you. That, you know, um, was it Remeat Steady? He's got a podcast. Um, you know, he talks about building your rich life. And what does your rich life look like? Maybe that means a cup of Starbucks every day, but maybe that means giving up, who knows, Netflix or some kind of membership that you've got that you don't actually use and doesn't mean anything to you. So there are ways of working on your budget where you don't have to give up those things, though that pair of shoes that you want to buy. If that's important to you, then have that be priority and get rid of the things that that don't matter to you as much. But being financially literate and knowing how to make a budget, I think is so important. And that can be really intimidating for a lot of people.

Money As A Tool For Time

SPEAKER_02 25:55

It sure can. Because again, it gets me if somebody's telling me how to spend money or I have to spend time doing this or I have to track. But I'll tell you, I remember before I got married, I bought a townhouse. And I was really worried about whether or not I could make the mortgage payment. And I did a lot to get the rate to where I wanted to be, but I still wasn't sure. And I remember at the time that I was doing that, I carried around a little piece of paper in my pocket. And every time I spent money, it didn't matter how insignificant it seemed, I wrote it down on that piece of paper every day. And then at the end of a month, I looked this, I took that and I put it all into a spreadsheet so I could see what I was spending my money on. And I looked at that and I said, I know I can pay this mortgage because there's things on here that if the situation got tight, I know I could cut them out. So it's really about understanding where the money's going so that you know when things get tough, that you have places you can cut.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

It reminds me of the cookies and things like that, right? Like that you just it's on the counter, you take it, you eat it. You don't even realize these calories that you're taking in. It's just happening. It's the same thing with money. You go and you you buy these little things. You buy a donut, you buy, I don't know, something you go to the gas station, you you pick up some gas, you buy a couple of other little things. It's all these other little things that you're buying that that really increase your spending, just like the cookies or nibbling things from the fridge. It it does add something, and it's easy not to see those things.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

It is, and I know I recently read a book with a friend of mine because we get together and we try to, we read books together and we talk about them. Usually they're related to the work that we do. And we read a book called Your Money or Your Life. And in the book, he talks about those things you're calling. I think if if I remember right, he called them gazingas. Those things that you go into the store and you mindlessly buy. And he tries to start to frame it in this idea of think about how much money you make and how many hours you work. And I'm just gonna make the number simple and say that you made$1,000 and you work 25 hours. I'm just doing that because the math is easy. So that's$40 an hour. So if you go into the store and you buy something that's$40, that's one hour of work. Is that thing really worth one hour of work? If it is, that's great. But if it's not, then maybe you want to rethink buying it. And he there's a lot of other things that he talks about like that, but that's a I like that idea of framing it that way. Figure out how much you're making per hour. And then try to put those things that you want to buy or do in those terms, and it can make it a little bit easier for you to figure out is it really worth it?

SPEAKER_00 28:48

I had never really thought of it like that, but I think that's fantastic. Because when you see something, you're like, oh, it's$40, it's not that expensive. But when you see it as one hour or two hours of your time that you need to invest to get that, sometimes it just doesn't seem worth it anymore.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Yes, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

So you had mentioned that you tend to um work with women in relationships who might not have a big financial um who don't do a lot of the finances in the relationship. And that can lead to a lot of power struggles sometimes in the relationship. Can you talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 29:27

Sure. So one of the things that I do as part of my work is I do what's called life planning. And life planning is really designed to help you identify those things that are really important to you so that you can not get to the end of life with regret. It's about avoiding regret and figuring out now so you can start to do this. So when I work with a couple, what I'll do is there's usually one member, and in your example, it's it's him, right? That has more understanding of finances, more control over what's going on, knows what's going on. So when I'm doing life planning with that couple, she's gonna go first. And I create a container around it and I say to him, You can't, I don't want you to talk while she's going. I'll give you a chance to give to share your thoughts about what she had to say when you're done, when she's done. But this is her time. And I I'll switch it when you know I'll do the give him the same courtesy, right? She shouldn't talk while he's doing it because it just gives you an opportunity to communicate. Because what we're trying to figure out in that process every couple, if it's a good relationship, there should be things that are going to come out during this process that are aligned, but there's also going to be things that they each want independently on their own that we want to be able to identify those two, and it gives the other person a chance to start to understand what's important to them. So that's an important part of that process. But it's really the vast majority of women, women live longer than men, and women are typically younger than their spouse, and so they're more likely to end up on their own. And on that that doesn't even count the divorce the incidence of divorce, right? But the vast majority of women when they're when they lose their husband, if they had a financial advisor, they picked somebody else. And part of the reason is because their advisor ignored them. So they don't really feel comfortable or know that person. And when I work with a couple, I want to make sure that they both have that opportunity. And why have couples where she's the one that's the financially savvy person and he's not? And I do the same thing, but in reverse, because it's really important that you're there and you give both both members that opportunity to to talk and to share and to express what's important to them and and everything else. And it's really, I mean, it can be really a beautiful thing when you see a couple that's really in tune. And like it all kind of fits so nicely together.

Simple Steps To Feel In Control

SPEAKER_00 32:03

It's interesting that you say when when one partner, when the husband passes away, that the wife sometimes gets a different financial planner because she didn't always feel like she was being heard. And that brings me back to my early 20s when I tried to get life insurance. And we were told that my husband would need more life insurance than me because he was gonna be the main breadwinner. But what was interesting is I already made more money uh than my partner at the time. So when I brought that up, he looked at my husband almost shaming him. And he's like, Well, that's not gonna be forever, right? He's like, You're gonna be the main breadwinner. And I was like, listen, we need to be realistic here. Like I like I was the one that wasn't counting. I was a little bit, you know, I I understood money a little bit better, but it was it was interesting. This life insurance person refused to sell me more life insurance because my husband was gonna step up and start making more money. And I just I felt so uncomfortable with that situation. I felt um, I don't know, I felt like I was maybe put in my place a little bit. Like it was just, it was a very uncomfortable situation for me. And uh this salesperson was was quite a bit older, an older gentleman, but I just I did not feel listened to at all. And it was it was unfortunate.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

It is, and I have couples where it's more like what you just said, where she's the one. I have one I talked to the other day, she's a doctor. Her husband is thinking that it hasn't worked, like he worked a little bit early because I was asking from retirement planning what this means for social security. I have a I have several couples like that, but I can give you a different example. I'll never forget when my wife and I were first married. It wasn't about money per se, but we were going to look for a car. And the car that we were looking at was for my wife. And it so happened that after I used to make a car that had five cylinders, it was called the Vigger. And my wife was trying to understand why how that worked and what five cylinders meant, and she was asking a lot of questions, and the salesman basically said to her something along the lines of, Don't worry, honey, when we get to the color, we'll talk to you. Yeah. And she got up and I told him what a fool he was because the car was for her. It wasn't for me. So if she had questions, they needed to be answered. And we left. And we didn't buy that, we ended up not even buying that car, but we left that dealership because there's no way we were going to deal with anybody that treated her like that.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

It's it's unfortunate that women were were not brought into the conversation years ago. And and unfortunately, it just one, these are smart women who probably who could have grasped these concepts quite easily. You know, we all can women can learn just as good as men can. But it's unfortunate that there is these times when everything was deferred to the man. I I like to think that things are changing. But that incident with the life insurance guy, that was maybe 20 years ago. It's not that long ago, if you think about it.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

And you're saying women live longer than men, and a lot of times these women are younger than men. So if they haven't dealt with a lot of the finances at home and their partner is now gone, or let's say you're married and you get divorced and now you're on your own. Um, I have a friend who her husband told her that he was leaving. And when she went to ask him about the bank accounts, she noticed all of the bank statements and everything had been removed from the basement and everything was hidden away from her. And it was really scary to not know where any of this stuff is. So, what can women do to protect themselves?

Values-Based Spending Without Shame

SPEAKER_02 35:55

I think the biggest thing is not to wait until that happens. You can have money dates with your staff with your spouse, significant or other, whatever you want to call it. Have money dates, have conversations about it. Ask to go, like I know my wife, she keeps track of some of the things, but some of the things only I see because, like, for example, if it's our investments, they're on my platform as an advisor. There are a couple accounts that are hers, so she sees those, but she doesn't always see the other one. So probably about once a quarter, she'll come in here in this office where I work, and we'll sit down and I'll go over everything so she knows what we have. And she opens the mail and makes sure that she sees like our mortgage, she knows what the balance is, and she keeps her own little thing to keep track of stuff just to make sure. But we'll you have to have conversations and be aware and don't put yourself in that situation where all of a sudden you get to that point where your spouse passes or you're getting a divorce and you don't know what's going on. I mean, I can think of an example before I had my firm, I worked for a firm that only did divorce, and they had a client that there were credit cards in her name because that's something else that's really important. If you're right, if you get divorced and you didn't have a credit card in your name, they were all joint and you could use them, but they were all in your spouse's name. Guess what? You don't have any credit. So you want to make sure that you have credit cards in your name. So she had credit cards in her name, but he was responsible for paying the bills. So when things got tough, he stopped paying her bills and she went to move out. Credit isn't just needed to buy a house, credit's needed to rent, and she had no credit. And she was fortunate that she had family that could back her up because she wouldn't have been able to move out based upon that credit because he had just destroyed her credit by not paying her bills. So it's all about not letting it get to this point where you don't know what's going on, and all of a sudden you need to have information and you can't get it, or it's hidden from you, or you just don't understand. So I really encourage the idea of having money dates or something like that where you get down together with your spouse once a month, once a quarter, whatever works for you, and you're that cadence is whatever's best for you. But just make sure that you have an idea of what's going on and have conversations. Like I have some values exercises that I do with people sometimes. And one of the things that I asked as part of this series of exercises is what is money like in your house growing up. And usually it's more like what I described in my story, right? Where it's this authoritarian where one person made all the decisions and nobody else really got much say. And then I asked, what is it like now? What would you like it to be? And it is a positive because I see that it's changing. Usually, when I ask people what it's like now and what it they would like it to be now, it's more of a sharing. They may or may not bring the kids in, which at some point is important too, because there's lots of things that can happen there, but at least couples are talking about it more. It's not as one-sided as it used to be, at least in my experience.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

What are some red flags that you might see if you're outsourcing too much of your financial freedom to someone else, whether it be a partner or family member, even a financial advisor?

SPEAKER_02 39:13

So I think things that you would that you have done in the past, that all of a sudden somebody says you can't do that. Right. Um or you want something that you think makes sense and you're being told no too many times, or there's calls or uh things that come in the mail that you're not expecting that you didn't see. Like it's just it's it's keeping your eyes open. I think that's it. And just looking for for things that change in terms of how it is, how how money-related issues are. I don't know that I can put my finger on a specific thing, but I just think those are like all things that I think about. Like if if you used to go out to eat once a week, and now all of a sudden it's going to become once a month. Why is that? Or if it's every other week, why did that change? Be quizzical, ask questions. Don't just accept everything that somebody told you that that's the case, right? You don't have to. It's look, when you're married, it's not just either one of you, the assets. There are some, like if if your parents pass away and you inherit money from your parents, you want to keep that money separate, and that's really can only be yours. But the rest of it, the things that you have as a couple, they're both yours, and you have just as much right to know as they do. So ask questions.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

I guess if somebody's if you're asking questions and someone's kind of dismissing you or um, you know, saying don't worry about it, keeping you out of the loop, that would also be a red flag.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

Absolutely right. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:50

Yeah. I like your idea of having a weekly meeting to talk about these things openly. I know my calendar, I have weekly fun with finance. It pops up every Wednesday night at eight o'clock. And we have an online budget. Um, like we maybe it's not an online, but like an app that we use and we go over our budget. We talk about where we would like to go in the next couple months, what changes do we need to make to our budget to make that happen, and just having these open conversations about what our concerns are about the money, where it's gonna go. So I I like that part. Um, but I love money and I like that financial stuff. So, you know, you've mentioned spreadsheets, and it gets me excited. I love spreadsheets, spreadsheets. And um that just has a lot to do from my my previous accounting days. I never I never was able to get over those spreadsheets. I I really enjoy them. Once you start learning about money, at first it can definitely be really overwhelming, um, especially if you're learning to invest your own money, learning what the heck is an EFT? What's you know, what how do how do you trade a stock? Why is maybe an EFT safer than trading individual stocks? Like it can be really overwhelming, learning how to make a budget and doing all these things, but it is something that can be learned. And um, having a financial advisor is a great idea if if you're not sure how to get those things done. Uh, lots of stuff on YouTube, like anything else, you have to be careful what you watch, but really important to learn just a little bit of basic knowledge about money. I think it's really important if you want to have some measure of control on on some of the money in in the household and having that you need that just for that, for your own security.

SPEAKER_02 42:40

I completely agree. By the way, it's ETF, not EFT.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

EFT. Oh, so okay. Thank you. You're right. It's an ETF. See, I still got some some some stuff to learn. But um, no, I appreciate that. Listen, I just put my money in there and I forget about it, and it just kind of does its thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:59

That's all right.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

That's what I like about uh ETFs a little bit more than stocks. You don't actually have to like watch it every single day.

Money Dates And Relationship Power

SPEAKER_02 43:06

No, because it's a different thing, right? It's it's it's investing in a pool of companies as opposed to just one. So you've diversified, you've reduced your risk, and if you're adding through all the time, like it's it's really interesting to me. We like to watch so many people like to watch the market. But it doesn't really do you any good. And when we I just take the view when we've invested, we've made an implicit assumption that the market's going up long term. Because if we if it's not, there's no point in investing. And if you're adding money to the market, it sounds weird when I say this, but you actually don't mind shouldn't mind if the market falls. Because if you're investing in the same thing all the time, like for example, you're buying an ETF and it was$250 a share, and that's a high price, but I'm just doing it because the math is gonna work easy for my example. And it falls 20%, now it's$200 a share. If you stop buying, and then we say it's gonna come back, right? It's gonna get back to$250, but all you did is recover what you had. But if you kept adding during that period, and let's say you were buying putting$1,000 in, right? So you were getting four shares at$250, now you're getting five shares for at$200, so that's a thousand dollars. When it goes back to$250, by adding at the 200 level, you just got a 25% gain just by adding through the difficult times. And it's so it's it's to your benefit when you're saved, when you're a saver. It's to your benefit if the market falls. And we hate to hear that. We nobody wants to see the market fall, but that's really how it works.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

No, it does. You want to buy things when they're a little bit lower, and so when you're when the market does dip, not a bad time to buy if you're reasonably certain that it will go back up.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:59

Yeah. So money can be a really emotional topic for people, especially for women. Because sometimes we get told that some women are told that they're bad with money, or we grew up with certain beliefs that money doesn't grow on trees and you're or or feeling like you'll never have any money. And so, how do you help clients rewrite their story?

SPEAKER_02 45:21

That's a it's a really interesting thing. We we do get these. So, one of the things that I ask early on in the process when I'm working with a new client, I ask about the early money memories because as you're alluding to, we hear those things like money doesn't grow on trees, but we also see certain things in terms of how money is when we're going up. And that can really impact how we think about money when we get older. Like I can think of one of my my early money memories is I remember when I was a kid and we didn't have a lot. But my my parents would give me a little bit of money to go to the movies on Saturday. We go to I go to a Saturday matinee with my friend that lived next door because we could walk to the movie theater on a Saturday afternoon. And we wanted to get some candy in the theater. Yeah, the candy in the theater was much more expensive. There was a candy store nearby, so we started to go there and then bring the candy in, and then we realized that the supermarket that was actually next to the movie theater had the cheapest candy. So then we could get like one thing each or two things each instead of just the one thing. Yeah, I know sugar's not the best, but you're a kid, it's fine, right? But it was just I learned then and it's something that's carried through, but now as my money beliefs have changed and matured, I'm not a I don't treat it the same way that I did then. But I can tell you a client story too. I had a couple that I work with, and she's the one that's the got the financial background, and he's the one that doesn't. And he's been in the military and all that, right? He's not a financial guy. And he's also older than she is, and he wants to pay off the house, so they don't have any debt. And she's like, But my mortgage is three percent. Why would I want to do that? And when I ask what his earliest money memories are, he tells me how when he was growing up, they had this house that they lived in, they did well enough to move to another house and they kept the first house and they owned it free and clear. And then they had financial difficulties and they couldn't stay in the house that they had moved into and they had to go back to that first house. And knowing that that was there, that gave him a sense of security, and that's why he wants to pay off the house. So if something happens when they're both retired and they don't have money coming in in the same way, he wants to own the house free and clear. But when we talk through it, like they can get to a compromise where sure they can pay it off a little bit faster, it's faster than she wants, but not as fast as he wants. But by knowing, having that knowledge and that understanding, it helps us get to that point where they can both be more comfortable with the decision and we can kind of do the things that work for both of them. At the beginning of my life planning training, we we had to go through a book called The Seven Stages of Money Maturity, and it starts out to like our innocence and our childhood beliefs. But as we grow, and as I talked before about we go from security to freedom with money, well, you think about your money beliefs as you grow and develop can go the spectrum goes at the end. It's called aloha in the book. But it's just the idea that we can be more giving with our money and we're more free to give to others, and we don't really worry about what we get in return. So our money beliefs can change, but it's just trying to think through things and understand where they come from and what we can do to change them.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

Yeah. In my relationship, I enjoy spending money. I have lots of things that I like. Um I have my guilt-free spending that that, but I just I'm definitely more of a spender and my partner is more of a saver. And that sometimes can cause a little bit of friction because our goals with money and the way that we use money is is a little bit um different. So, what what do you do when couples feel differently, like have different like I I truly believe this is because of how we grew up. We grew up in two very different households. One was more conservative with their spending. Um, definitely everything was was saved and you had to be careful. And then the other one was, you know, there there was money there and and we spent it. So how how do couples find a way to come together when your values around money can sometimes be really different?

ETFs And Staying Calm In Dips

SPEAKER_02 49:58

So there's two things. One, I told you, I think I said earlier, how when I'm working with a couple and I let them go separately to kind of go through the process. But the other thing is when we're going through a situation like I have couples I work with where maybe they're spending more than they should be. And we've done the life planning work. So we know what's important to them and what they value. And so when they're looking for the things that they how to cut or how to reduce spending, let's try and tie it back to those things that are in our life plan, those things that are important to us. And we want to eliminate the things that aren't. So in a case like that where their beliefs aren't always the same, there's still some things that both of them are do you're both doing that might not be in line with your values or might not be as important. So that's where we can make some cuts so that we can still have the freedom and the ability to spend on those things that are important to us. So it's I think identifying those things that really matter to you is a big element in coming to that point where you can figure out how to compromise there.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

And even just understanding where your partner's coming from.

SPEAKER_02 51:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:09

And uh where some of these beliefs come from and um finding some kind of middle ground, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Yeah, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

For someone who's just starting out, where do you start? Do you do you have any apps that you recommend? Maybe some spreadsheets or journals to track money? What what would you recommend to somebody who's just getting started?

SPEAKER_02 51:34

So I do think that it's important to get that understanding of where your money is going. And like I said, that I go back to that story about the gazingas and how much right when you're spending your money, what is it in terms of work, but in terms of apps and things like that. And then I've used Quicken since my wife and I have been together. Like I have Quicken that we were married 30 years earlier this year, and so I have 30 years worth of financial data that's the thousand quicken. That's the one that I happen to use. That doesn't make it any better than anything else. It just happens to be the one that I use. Uh, for clients, the financial planning software that I use has an app that will help track it. And then there's other things like Monarch Money. Um, I think Nerd Wallet has something. There was you need a budget, but I think that that changed and it's not the it's not the product that they have isn't what it used to be. But you can do it in a spreadsheet.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

Right now is you need a budget. Yeah, I do I find that there's a lot of learning that needed to go into it. Like it wasn't super straightforward, but I like it. My partner thinks it's more of a game, but uh I like I like it. So yeah, no, there's definitely a lot of great apps out there. Um, I haven't certainly just do a spreadsheet. What's that? I could always just yeah, I use spreadsheets for years.

SPEAKER_02 52:51

Yeah, I mean that like I told my story with the hat when I bought the first house, right? I mean, that's what I did. I collected the piece of paper because I didn't have an app back then. I don't even know if there was or not, but it didn't matter. I just put it into a spreadsheet and let that do it for me. That's the simplest way. But it's a lot easier if you have an app, because what an app does for you is it allows you to import your transactions from your credit cards, from your bank statements into the software so that you don't have to worry about recording them. You have that. The only place I guess that that falls short is when you go though, it's not as prevalent as it used to be is if you take money out of the ATM and pay cash. But since COVID, people use cash a lot less than they did before.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

Yeah, I rarely ever have cash on me anymore. It's all it's all crazy plastics. So yeah. What's something that you wish more women knew about money?

Rewriting Money Stories From Childhood

SPEAKER_02 53:43

So I'm gonna go it is a number, but it's something a lot of people don't realize. If you are not working because you're home taking care of the kids and your spouse works, you can still contribute to an IRA. As long as your income's below a certain level. There's an income requirement that comes with it. But you can still save the seven or eight thousand dollars a year in an IRA because it you can make a spousal contribution. It's a really simple thing that a lot of people don't realize, but I think that's one thing. And like I said, the other thing that we talked about before is just you have just as much right to know what's going on. So I I really like that idea of scheduling those money dates or something like that so that you can be informed and know what's going on and be part of the process.

SPEAKER_00 54:30

You actually brought up a really good point that even though you are a stay-at-home parent, or let's say you make significantly less than your partner, management of money in the household should still be an equal partnership.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

Yes. Absolutely right.

SPEAKER_00 54:47

There's definitely sometimes some shame associated with some people who feel like they're taking money away from their partner or like they're not deserving of some of that income. I I have a relative who doesn't want to get divorced because they don't want to take their partner's um retirement plan, retirement or pension plan. And and I was like, well, you stayed at home with the kids. Like some of that is yours. Like he made that money because you were able to stay at home with the kids. So a lot of women, I think, feel stuck when they haven't worked or haven't been able to save as much in the relationship, and they feel like that money belongs to their partner, so now they feel stuck.

SPEAKER_02 55:29

And the other thing that I've seen is where you have gotten divorced, and as part of the process, you were given part of your husband, your spouse's pension or retirement accounts. And then when you asked for it because they're ready to retire, and all of a sudden they're mad at you, like you didn't deserve it, but you did because of what you just said. You were there, you were taking care of the kids, you were part of the household. Even if you were both working, it's a household, and you both have equal claim on the assets. And so the the it's more I've seen it more with a husband that gives his ex a hard time because she wants part of his pension. Like, oh, and I've even seen it where they'll try and use it with the kids to get the kids to be angry with their mom, right? Oh, your mother is ruining my retirement because she's taking some of my pension. Like, yeah, that's not right at all because she took care of the kids more than he did. And women spend more time out of work for caregiving, whether it be for kids or or their parents or whatever it may be than than men do. So women are out of the workforce more, so they're at a little bit of a disadvantage because of all that, but that doesn't mean that they're not entitled.

unknown 56:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

I think this could be an entire podcast all to itself. Just that that one question and what happens in breakups and how messy things can get. But Phil, where can people find you?

SPEAKER_02 57:06

So my firm is at Prize Wealth Management. My website is at PrizeWealth. That's APP R I-Se Wealth.com. You go there. I never charge anybody to have a conversation or multiple conversations if they're thinking about working with me. So you can always schedule a call. And I also blog every week and you can sign up for my blog. And we talked before about my if you go to apprizewealth.com/slash five things, you can download five things every woman should know about their finances.

unknown 57:38

Yeah.

Apps To Track Spending Plus One Key Tip

SPEAKER_00 57:39

No, I think that's a great um five things every woman should know about finance. I I think that that is something that we should all check out. And I want to make sure that all of those links go in the show notes. So um I'll make sure that everyone has access to those. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

Oh, you're welcome. And thank you for having me on today, Angela. I really enjoyed the conversation.

SPEAKER_00 58:00

I really appreciate your clarity and your honesty. And I kind of like the fact that like you're a guy who's helping women out. And that you're sharing all of this knowledge. I really appreciate everything that you're doing and that it's coming from such a like a deeply personal place for you. And this brings you so much joy. And I thank you for taking the time for sharing all of that with us. And thank you for being a mentor to all of us here today.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

It's my pleasure. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

And thank you to all of you who are spending time with us today. If this episode resonated with you, feel free to share it with someone who could use a little encouragement. The more of these conversations that we spread, the more people that we can reach together. If you'd like to stay connected, remember to follow or subscribe to the podcast. I'm most active on Facebook at the Codependent Doctor and on Instagram at DRAngela Downey. I always love hearing your thoughts, so don't be shy about reaching out. I'm wishing you a great week as you build a better relationship with the most important person in your life, yourself. Take care for now. You've got this. Thanks for spending time with me today. I hope something in this episode resonated with you. If it did, hit follow, subscribe, or share it with someone who needs to hear it today. The codependent doctor is not medical advice and doesn't replace speaking to your healthcare provider. If you're an advice, please go to the nearest ER or call 911 or reach out to your local mental health health client. I'll be back here next week with more support stories and strategies because we're healing together.