Data, Data Everywhere: Redefining Multifamily Marketing Measurement with Aimee Farmer

In this episode Aimee Farmer, VP, Marketing at Middleburg Communities discusses how she is redefining the role of marketing through embracing data. 

The discussion covers the importance of tracking key metrics like booked appointment show rates and response times, emphasizing the impact of personal touch points in increasing conversions. 

We also examine the lengthening renter decision-making process, advocating for earlier "coming soon" campaigns and extended lead nurturing. The conversation frequently returns to the challenges and opportunities of using data from various sources and the future of search with the rise of AI.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

And now a message from our sponsor Flamingo. Every multifamily marketer wants to know what the next big thing will be. At the apartment department, we think that resident retention is the next big thing, which is why we're excited to have Flamingo as our podcast sponsor. Flamingo, founded by Jude Chai, is an all-in-one resident retention platform used by some of the top performing communities in the country. And here's a fun little secret. If you see a community with 300 plus online reviews and 65% plus retention, there's a good chance they're using Flamingo. From automated renewal management and resident events to amenity bookings and even an AI concierge, Flamingo brings everything together in one sleek app that residents actually use. Learn more at getflamingo.com. Hi everyone and welcome to the apartment department, the podcast for multifamily marketers by multifamily marketers. We, as always, have a very special guest with us. Um, first of all, this is Ann Baum and Chris Johnson. Second, we have a very special guest with us. And um, I always say that our guests are special, but you guys, today we are going to be talking to a multifamily marketer. So we're gonna be switching gears a little bit because it is always really fun to hear what other marketers are doing, what challenges they're facing right now, and how they are approaching the future of multifamily marketing. So with us today, we have Amy Farmer. She is the VP of marketing at Middleburg Communities. They are a development heavy firm. They have about 6,000 units. They do multifamily and um build to rent, and they are in leaseup season right now. They have multiple leaseups going on, which Amy will talk to us about in a little bit. But really, why we wanted to talk about Amy and talk to Amy is that she is really a data heavy marketer and she's doing some really wonderful things by diving into data to help build traffic as well as really get in front of these leaseups. So with that, Amy, thank you so much for joining us. Um, hoping you can tell us just a little bit about your background, uh, just because I think that really, you know, gives us a good view of who you are as a marketer.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

Yeah, first off, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be sitting here speaking with you guys. I started out in the industry in 2012 in a leasing role. And most recently, previous to the role that I currently have, I was SVP um of operation on the operations side of it. And in the last two years, I moved to the marketing side, which has always been my passion. So um, yeah, I'm really excited to be here.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

That's amazing. So we were talking a little bit at the beginning. Um, like I said, you're you're very data driven and it obviously sounds like you've been in your role for about two years. So my guess is that you've kind of had to build up some new practices and maybe build up a team. And uh I don't know, can you talk to us a little bit about your journey on the marketing side?

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Yeah. So for me, it's part of knowing what the teams are going through. And they're getting, they have so much thrown at them on every single direction. It's not, it's not just the marketing request, it's also working with the residents, working with the prospects coming in, putting out fires. Um, and so what I've been able to bring on the marketing side that I've been able to carry from operations is understanding, I think, the big picture and how everybody talks to each other and everybody's needs. So, like asset management has a need, development has a need, the regional manager has a need, the residents have a need, the prospects have a need, marketing has a need. And so, how we can just bridge that gap and make really good decisions by looking at the data. Um, and everybody can talk a similar language.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

So, what language are you using? What reports are you pulling that the entire team understands, but you can still pull levers on the marketing side to make a difference? What numbers are you showing them? What's your Monday report look like?

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Okay. So we actually just revamped our Monday report to have better tracking into the statistics on that we find it to be important. So uh let's say, for example, booked appointments is not something that has been broadly looked at, but it it is actually a really important piece to the picture. So previously, when we first started looking at this information, we were showing that there was a little over 50% of our leads were booking appointments, but of those, nearly around 40% were actually showing up. And so how we looked at that data is what can we do differently from the time the appointment is booked to the time that they actually show up? So we implemented some best practices and um introduced additional pre-tour touch points in our training, including a personal phone call. And the goal of that phone call is super simple to build a connection and understand what matters most to the renter before they arrive on site. So the teams really leaned, the teams that really leaned into that approach. We saw nearly a 20% increase of intro rates, which ultimately we received more conversions for releases.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

That's amazing. And I think that's really important to talk about. I've been looking at this number a little bit differently. I was looking at it self-scheduled versus when they have a touch point with one of our agents. And it's staggering how much better it is when they have a touch point with our agents and they show up versus just the self-scheduling. And your data, which you just told us on the pod, reinforces that even more that our teams need to be communicating with the prospects. I have a feeling, like it or not, that once these prospects hit our sites, they should lease. In our world today, with all of the information that they have, if they already know the price, they already know the location, they've already done their research, they know the reviews. Maybe a little bit different on a lease up because it's not there yet. I get it. But let's just say stabilized, it makes such a big difference. They have to lease. And so it's the personal touch. They're leasing from the people on site. When somebody walks out the door, it's they're probably choosing something else. It's not really price, it's not location. They already know that. You're exactly a really good piece of data.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Yeah, you're exactly correct. We believe that they are just looking for to finish finding the value on their decision. And it's up to us to show them that while they're on site. But that starts at that first touch point when they're on that phone call. Um, they start building that quality connection. And when they already feel like you're connected with that person, they're more likely going to show up. Like you're not gonna ditch your best friend for dinner after you've committed to them, right? Exactly. You're gonna show up to dinner. And so that's the point behind this touch point is you start to build that friendship so you don't get ditched later.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

That's a really good way to look at it. And you've looked at these numbers too, right? Haven't you seen something similar?

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yeah, we have. Um we've been watching also just like you said, like how many tours are scheduled versus how many are showing up, and then when they're showing up, not necessarily why did they show up, but we've been looking at it more. Are we seeing a larger gap between tours scheduled and then people showing up? And then is that an indication that maybe there's a follow-up issue or a tracking, a manual tracking issue? It's you know, so it's like then what is that telling us? But I think that that's really interesting that you're looking at that too, because I think it would be easy to be like, oh, well, that's just kind of like the way it is now, right? Like it's so easy to schedule tours so people don't show up. But like you're like, no, let's actually build a process within this to make sure that like this drop-off doesn't have to be this way. We can do something about it. And I really love that. It reminds me of something. This is going back like 15 years, so like bear with me. But we I used to work at this marketing agency and we um worked with a college, it was a for-profit college, and we were responsible for driving leads to them. Um, and then basically so they could get new students. Well, what they saw was that their semesters only started certain months of the year, right? And so what they noticed was that the students that um signed up, like let's say four months before the semester started, had a higher drop-off rate, meaning they didn't actually start class. Um, whereas if someone had signed up closer to the start date, then they were more likely to um to start college. And so they came to us and said, like, how do we build kind of a communication uh strategy roadmap to keep these people engaged when they're, you know, the longer out, the more likely they are not to start. And so it's very interesting to hear that you're basically taking this strategy that we did a super long time ago and thinking about it from that's but but that's how it works in our industry on life.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Everything gets resurfaced, and we go back to the basics, and that's a lot of fun. My question to you is not everybody picks up the phone. We know that these days, especially younger generation. I mean, it's something we've all struggled with. Do you then text or email or you got to have some touch point, right? So how are you measuring all of this?

SPEAKER_02 9:58

So our first suggestion that we roll out is pick up the phone. Try to talk to them first. But like you, I'm not going to answer my phone. So the second point of contact is if you don't get a hold of them, if they text at you, text them because that's their preferred method of contact. If they email you, then email them because that's their preferred contact. Um, so we're not gonna stop at the phone call. We always want to follow up with that in writing touch point too. And we we kind of have it set out depending on how far out the appointment is booked. If it's like two weeks in advance, um, which we're starting to see a pickup in the length of time that people are booking appointments out. Um, then we want to do three touch points up until that appointment because I know me, like I'm setting my schedule. If I have a doctor's appointment, I will forget I have that doctor's appointment. And but they're calling me 10 times to remind me, hey, you have your doctor's appointment, which is annoying, but it's also extremely helpful. I'm not setting plans on that day a week before because I have that appointment already scheduled. And so it's kind of the same thought process, is people forget, they get busy, something else comes up. So it's just keeping it on the forefront of, hey, reminder, you have your appointment when it's so far out. If it's in that three days time frame, we still want the 72 hours and then 24 hours. And then of course they get it two hours before. But in my opinion, two hours is too late.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Have you had to play with the cadence to kind of find like, are you still, do you feel like you have the right cadence or are you still kind of trying to figure it out or what? Because that's that's a lot of testing.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

It is a lot of testing, and it's a for right now, the other, the other kind of hiccup is it's also a very manual process for right now. We are trying to work with our CRM to actually build build out a better appointment reminder. Um, so yes, I would say it's something that we're still monitoring, but we also just over the last month really started looking into this um and set that initial cadence.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

That's however, I think the best part of this story, though, is that you added something to a Monday report that I don't think many of us in the industry put on our reports, especially marketing-wise. And that just goes to the whole language of this industry that marketers can come to the table, we can make decisions using data that operations understands. We are a revenue generator with a very small expense. We are generating new residents, we are the reason why these buildings are populated, and and we do help out on the renewal side too. Are there anything other metrics that you're pulling that maybe the rest of us need to be looking at for our Monday reports or Tuesday reports or however you do it?

SPEAKER_02 12:52

Maybe you guys might be looking at this. I'm not sure, but response time is also really, really big for us right now. It's something that we have also added to our Monday reporting is what percentage are we immediately picking up that phone and within two hours and then six hours because we know today's renter is looking for immediate gratification. They can, they're gonna keep going down the line until they talk to the first person or just not even call us back. They may not even answer the phone if we call them back. So we really, really want to answer that phone immediately. We don't want to have to wait to give them a call back. So we really heavily monitor the immediate response, and then we also heavily monitor the two-hour response, but look to make sure they at least got a phone call that by the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

If so, this is something I've been thinking about recently. So let's say on a weekly report, you notice that there's a community and the response time is slower than what you ever you've set as the standard. What happens next? Like where does that information go? So that's a really good question.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

So the purpose of the report is to generate conversation, ask the questions. Um, it doesn't mean that's the whole picture. It could be that they had 50 tours that day and got 20 leases, and that's why they didn't pick up the phone, which is totally acceptable. Um, so for us, it just helps push that conversation to the regional and operations team to dive in to make sure that you know the case was they got 50 applications, and that's that's the acceptable answer. So we really just use this in this particular case. We use this to drive the conversation, um, to look into more of the deep dive, um, the hyperlinks, I like to say, um, and to see what the whole picture is.

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

No, I think that's interesting. Like I said, I've been thinking that that's the same with us. We're, I feel like marketing to Chris's point, we're in a good place where we can have oversight into all of these different the leasing metrics and pricing metrics and marketing metrics. And so we do kind of have this 360 view of data points that tell us a story. But then you're right, it's like we have to get that human feedback to say, like, this is what we're seeing, tell us more about it. And we've found that the data does allow us to open up those conversations as well, and we start to learn more about the properties than we might have ever known before, just by casually saying, Hey, we're noticing, we're noticing this, tell us more. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

And in some cases, I love using oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

I was just gonna say, in some cases, it can spark a conversation of like, you guys are getting so much traffic, so many leads, like you can't keep up with the volume. And so that spark that sparks a whole different conversation.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah, how do you do it? See, I for me that that's exactly why what we should be using KPIs for, both on the operational side and marketing or however you want to slice it, it's for conversations. It's not uh I never feel like I'm in a gotcha moment. Um, we all are working to be better, and you you know, we put a lot on our on-site teams every day, and we need to have some understanding. I and I'm sure Annie coming up through it, and my wife did the same, and so she's given me that perspective. There's just so much that goes on on site with residents and phone calls, and if you're in a lease up, you are dealing with a lot of leads and a lot of questions and all of the things. So I you know, these conversations are meant to spark on how we can be better and not necessarily oh man. Now, if you have a trend, of course, then you have to have the difficult conversations that none of us want to have. But if it's one off or whatever, and they could be explained, it's great, because then you can have that that dialogue. But I also think the dialogue, as you said, leads to other conversations, and then you become a stronger team in general. And that's why I think the data is so important and and really the tool that equalizes us marketers who do look at the data versus those who may not pay as much attention because we can sit in a in a meeting in a room with the executives and feel good about what we're talking about, and we know we can speak their language. We just have to switch it from our jer jar, you know, our jargon to their jargon, which I mean, which is fun.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

I mean, I I love that part of marketing, which is helpful when you come from the operations side. Yeah, I I I will say like I absolutely love marketing for those same reasons. It truly feels like you're you're solving like operations, kind of felt like it was like one piece of the puzzle, but marketing feels like it's capturing the whole piece of the puzzle. And I love working puzzles, so it is it definitely is marketing is my side.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

So let me ask you this with all these leaseups and and your marketing strategy, what are you concentrating most on? I mean, are you do you feel like the top of the funnel is pretty good and you really want your teams now to concentrate middle down? Do you feel like you know we're in a market, maybe your markets, you need more top of the funnel. What get what's the data showing you and how are you addressing that with the teams?

SPEAKER_02 18:08

Yep. So absolutely. In very rare cases, we do need to fill more top of the funnel. However, we have seen we have a pretty healthy top of the funnel pipeline. And so on our leaseups, we actually adjusted our strategy recently. Um where part of us using the data and the data being, we know now the renter is taking longer to make a decision than this time this year, than last year, and even the previous year. And so how we use that data point to make a decision is we rolled out our coming soon campaigns a lot sooner. So we rolled out coming soon campaigns, we launched our CRM, especially on our build-to-rent product. People don't know what that is. Like we can say that lingo, but the renter doesn't understand that lingo. And so we also have to have an education piece of that to the coming soon campaign. So it's dual, um, which significantly helped our leaseups by doing that. Um, we saw above a 10% increase in our pre-leasing efforts since rolling out the coming soon campaign. And with our leaseups that we're launching now, a lot of the traffic that we're actually leasing to today was from four or five months ago when we first launched our coming soon campaigns. Additionally, because we know the renter is taking longer, so not just for our leaseups, but also for our stabilized properties, we've adjusted how long we nurture a lead. So before it was like you've got to follow up with them three times, um, then it was five times. And now we look for seven to nine times for that follow-up because we know it's taking them longer to make that decision. And we don't want to just lose the lead. So we've done a couple of different adjustments on the leaseup side and the stabilized side.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

I think that's that's very interesting because once you typically once you cancel out a lead of your CRM, then if they kind of get cut off from any automated communications, any bulk communications. So um we've been thinking about that lately too. Like, wait a minute, we have all these canceled leads, and then we're sending out these bulk emails, but there isn't an audience for canceled prospects. So who are we like who are we sending actually sending these bulk emails out to? And so um it's interesting that that you're talking about that because we've we've started to be thinking about that too recently.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Do we have any idea why it's taking our renters longer? Do you think it's because they have more information at their fingertips? Do you think it's the economy? Is it just more choice? I mean, this used to be you could almost say, like, hey, I'm moving in a week kind of thing, and I'm gonna sign my lease and be going, like when when we started, when I started in this business. Um, and then it moved to a month, then two months because of the 60-day notices, but now it is creeping past that. Why? Why do we think it's taking longer?

SPEAKER_02 21:15

That's a really good question. And I would like to hear your perspective on this too. Um for us, I see a little bit of some of it is market demographic, but our specifically our BTR product, you see a much longer lead time. And we we had a couple leases in the last few months that looked last year, like just in the last couple of months, a handful of them. Um, and we're we're not really seeing that length of lead time on our traditional multifamily, but we're still seeing it longer. And I do think it's because they have there's much more competition. There's a lot more product going up. Um, and they have a lot more resources. To make those decisions. Like they can, they have more tools to be able to put together their Excel spreadsheets and check off all the boxes. So they're just taking longer to check those boxes.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

I agree with all that. I also think there's more noise. I just think that people have busy lives. We have social media. We are working. And I think they kind of they make it more of a casual thing versus like I'm going to go find a place to live. When I was a renter by choice, I picked a weekend and I just looked at everything I could in that weekend and I was making my decision. But I just don't think even on apartment row, like I just don't think in a lot of markets that's how people operate now. I think they wanna kind of be casual about it, drive around, they want to vibe, they want to make sure they can love it, right? It is, it's such a vibe. And I know we're side we're sidetracking because I'm just so excited about this thing I'm working on. We're sidetracking off the data, but I'm working on this SEO geo thing because of Brooke, and I've already launched one and it's amazing. But when I was showing people at work, they're like, Chris, you've created a vibe, and that's like to the community, this is what our residents are actually saying. And I didn't look at it when I first started thinking about it that way. Like from Brooke, it was more of like a surf and SEO like geo strategy. But once we put all this stuff together from all the reviews and what people are saying, it actually is creating what's going on in the community. And guess what? Luxury, resort style, all the stuff that we use was not used in any of these reviews that we're that we're kind of compiling and using. It's the staff is great, the it's quiet, it's a place that I love to live, it's near everything I need. Um, and it's just more conversational, so it's kind of fun to look at it. And I just think that that the search is changing because, as you know, and you think Google's dead. So nobody's gonna search Google anymore, they're gonna go search the vibe.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

They're gonna search the what the vibe of the community.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

The vibe.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

What? What are would you put what how did you represent all?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

I think I missed well, how did you represent all of these things that you used my I used my reputation software AI to compile what people love about the community?

SPEAKER_03 24:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

I then took that and used more AI to make it SEO geo friendly, fair housing friendly, um, and compiled all of the things that they were saying, all these reviews. So maybe a hundred reviews of the community, um, and what they all kind of touched on. What were the what were the top five things that they loved about living there? And so that created these statements about why our residents love living at X.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

And then is it like a pay, like is it a page on the like a five?

SPEAKER_00 24:42

I put it at yeah, I put it at the bottom of our amenities page. But then after after thinking about it, because I'm doing it for the rest now, I might scatter it throughout the rest of the website. I don't know yet. I mean, it's a test, it's a it's like our it's like the video FAQ, it's stuff that we're just trying out, and that's what marketing, we're gonna look at the data. How is it gonna help us increase our time on site? We launched the video FAQ, and that site already has more longer traffic. Uh the time on site has already gone up, and we are thinking it's because people are actually looking at these videos. So um, I mean, it's not a direct because it's not tracked, but you know, if you make a change like that, that's the only thing you changed.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yeah, I I think you're right. That conversational comment, it was weird. It was like conversational and then also structured at but it's like you have to take the conversation and structure it to like still be findable. So it's just kind of an interesting, it's it's an interesting phenomenon. I'm uh that's so neat though that you move so quickly on these ideas.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

I'm lucky. I don't have a lot of red tape, but also I make the argument like I'm not hurting anybody, I'm not putting anything out there that's gonna hurt. So like it's only gonna build our brand. Um, so you know, I mean, some of the stuff I do slowly, like the video FNQ took a little off, but um yeah, it's kind of fun to try it, and that's what the data the whole point of this conversation is we can use data and we can use these things and move on it, and we can see if we can move the needle. Because if you can move the needle in our industry, like Amy, if you get three more bookings to show, you get one more lease, or you should. Yeah, so um every week. And if you're doing that on a lease up, that one lease is gonna add up. That's you know, if you break it down over eight weeks, that's eight more leases.

SPEAKER_02 26:27

That's exactly it, and that's why we took it back. It's kind of like taking it back to the basics. Like the booked appointments is the first thing you need to be able, well, the lead is the first thing you need, but the booked appointment, the physical contact, it's the first thing that you need to be able to convert. And so we took it back there to try to obviously increase the overall conversion and and leases coming in. So um, yeah, it's been it's been a huge help. And I cannot wait to try your idea. Like I think it's absolutely brilliant. Um, and another one of the reasons why I absolutely love marketing because it just like you said, it literally does not work to try. It's not going to affect anybody. And but you can see in the data, does it work? Does it not work? Um, so yeah, that's on my list of many things that I I want to get rolled out. And I there's so many benefits with it. Like, so many benefits with even your credibility that you're building, um, seeing those positive pieces in so many different places. So Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

I that's the whole thing is you gotta you gotta touch them all over the place. Where are you guys living data-wise right now? Are you pulling out of G4? Are you using? I know Ann, you have some stuff with Yardi that you use. Um, are you guys living in your CRM for data? Are you going outside to get data or using both?

SPEAKER_02 27:49

For us, we are we have so many different places we pull data. We pull data in our CRM, we're pulling data um in our property management system software. We're pulling data through our digital advertising company. Um, and then of course, we do have the Google Analytics that we can also pull it from. Um, but we get really, it's basically the same data through our digital advertising space. And it's really just broken down a little bit better. You can still see where the website traffic is coming from, all of those things. So we use a lot of that um to help make the digital space uh decisions based on that data.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

I live in G4. I live in NOC right now. Um, I mean, those are the places that I'm getting most of my data. My I do get data from third party, but I check their data versus to the G4 data too, even though they're pulling it, because G4 gives me the ability to customize a little bit more. So I use theirs as kind of a 35,000 view, like what's going on, how's our traffic, time on site, things like that. But then I'll dive into Google Analytics too, um, and just kind of check it out because we have so much they've made it so customizable these days, yep, how you want to see the data that I do like to look at it that in that form. And I do like looking at it in the 30-day window over the last 30, and then track that, and then look at what was doing last year, the last quarter, just so I can make sure we're staying on track. I don't mind less traffic as long as the quality of traffic goes up. And I think all of us would agree on that. We don't want to waste time.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

No, we're doing uh six weeks now. We're looking at six weeks because of the length of the sales cycle has lengthened. And so originally I think we started with a maybe it wasn't, maybe it was a four week and then we went to a five, and now we're at a six-week and we Does that made a difference for you, Ann? To be able to look at it that length of time, yeah, because um then the data is a little more um the move-ins are a little more accurate because if you're looking at like at that shorter time frame, then the move-ins are gonna be shorter, or excuse me, less, and then the conversion rates are gonna look worse. And so then you might accidentally be like, oh, well, they're doing badly as the conversion rate, you know what I mean? And then it's like, but that's not the real story. So to answer your question, yes, it has. Um, it increases those. Um because then we're at least able to see, like, okay, well, maybe a lease was executed, but there wasn't a move in yet. So we're able to like at each of the data points, we're able to see like a larger set of data and kind of a more accurate one.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Yeah, I agree. I think that's a good idea. I think I'm gonna start pulling after this conversation. I'm gonna start pulling in longer terms because I think it'll help us get a better picture. Um, one thing I do on my Monday report that I don't know if everybody does, maybe, but I do I track the cancellations and denials pretty closely because I want to know, like it's fine if we get the applications, but I want to know how many of them are actually sticking. It helps kind of for me to just look at it, eyeball it, and say quality of traffic is good or quality of traffic isn't good. When we have really bad weeks, I look at the team and I say, Do we need to make an adjustment? But it's more of a conversation. Because if it's not happening week over week, then maybe we just had a bad week or we had a bunch of leasing the week before and had some stuff spill over. Um, but that's something I think is really important. Um, and we've talked about this before, but I love I only look at the lease number. I I I have my lease numbers memorized, my current occupancy, I don't care. I mean it's good, but I don't care because my marketing doesn't market for current, it's only marketing for the future. And I look at it, by the way, not in a 60 or 90 day, I look at it forever. So if that makes sense. I don't look at I don't look at it 30 or 60 days out or whatever the standard report is. I just all of my move outs could be there, could be somebody that gave a move out six months from now because they know they're leaving. I look at that number. That's my true, my true availability.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Something I want to start looking at is kind of similar. We have the data, but I haven't started. I pull it, I don't look at it yet, but kind of the the length of days to like basically application submitted to approved. So like how because I think what you're talking about, Chris, like it are there a lot of cancellations. Well, that could be quality of lead, it could be that there's a special where it's like no hold fee or no app fee, and people are just like, ah, whatever, I'm applying. It could be that there's a broken process. It could, I mean, so that's something that I want to start looking at too. Like, are we losing people because that process is taking too long? Um, or uh seemingly taking because again, it just starts a conversation, right? But like if if there's a property that's kind of above a benchmark, so that'll be one of the things that I want to add in too, because I think that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

We do that now, and we just had this conversation, and it was taking the team too slow to kick the people out, or look at the application, and quite frankly, it was because we had the lease number and the uh and the denied um cancellation on the same report. I put it on the same report, and so you can look at it and the trend number, we look at it, we're like, this is not a true trend. We know it's not a true trend. We we know what's going on here, and so you can have those conversations and it it makes a huge difference. I track the scheduled move-in to move in too, um, not on a report, but I I personally track it because that's another one if they're not communicating with these residents, or they're not residents yet, so prospective residents. I mean, you know, Amy, uh coming from the operation side, it's not a move in until they move in. It doesn't matter if it's scheduled or not.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

You're you're exactly correct. We actually just added these things to our weekly report. We added our pending applications past 72 hours because are they working them properly? Um, just like you said, it's not an application until they've been approved, denied, canceled. Um, and then we also just added apps that are still in process, but have not paid anything. So, like, do they still need to do something else to work that process? Meaning that's a really high intent lead in one way or another. And so we want those to be worked like very quickly, but we also just added our cancels and denies um and looking at those a little more granular, because is it did they just deny like five applications that have taken place in previous weeks? Like, is there something going on? Um, for example, we could denies and cancels with the high percentage. Are we actually working our leads with quality? Because you more than it's easier to get an unqualified application than it is to get a qualified application. So if you're seeing that really high deny and cancel percentage, are you really working your leads with quality content and follow-up? Are you really trying to narrow down their needs and creating that value for them on why they would lease here? So that's also opened up a door for more conversation by adding that to the weekly report.

SPEAKER_00 35:17

So something that's done for me too is uh I have moved away as a concession at free out fees and and admin if you have them, because you're not that if if they don't have to put any money in the in the skin in the game, then they have no reason to stay. And so when I see that now, I know it's a red flag at that community that they're trying to do something right. And no offense to people out there doing it. I get it, you got to fill the building, fine. But I'm just saying if I have my if I have my my preference, I would rather offer something else, a little bit more up front, let's say, in that first month than giving away the app and admin fees.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah, because it's gonna impact you on the back end. You might get them more app, yeah, but you're not necessarily gonna get more move-ins. All right, Amy, here's the million-dollar question. Are you pulling all of these data sets into different spreadsheets and then putting them into like what? Because I'm working off of a crazy pivot table system right now that could break at any moment. I'm very scared. Like, how are you putting all this together?

SPEAKER_02 36:24

First off, let me just say I'm extremely thankful for my colleague because she does all of this for our for the weekly reports that goes out, and she is pulling it. We're also adding Aura scores because we want to be able to track to see because that also tells the story. Yes. Like, we want a cap, we want to capture a snapshot of what we can see in the whole story because we know. I mean, recently there's a report that came out. Gen Zers are searching on Chat GPT 4.6 stars or more. They're not okay with a 4.5, they're not okay with a 3.5. They want the 4.6 stars or more. And the higher review, the higher rents you can get, the better value you can build for your property. So we also want to be able to track like how are the reviews fitting into this big picture?

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 37:17

So long-winded way to answer your question. We're following it from a million different ways, a million different areas, but we're really trying to work with our um IT department and try to automate these reports as best possible and not having it to be so manual.

unknown 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

Okay. No, that's good. So it sounds like right now you're in the same boat as most people of like compiling a bunch of different reports, but at some point we're not quite at the point. I feel like every week and every time I have a conversation with someone, I'm like, oh, you know what we should add? Like now I want to add. Yeah, like the other thing now I want to add is like how many units are vacant ready, but ready. Yes, ready or not ready. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

We're adding that on next week's report.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

But see, here's the thing, Amy, that's because you're an operation. My the our head of operations has that on his report, and we each send a report on Monday, and some of our information is the same, and some of it's different. One of his is the make ready, the vacant make readies, and it's a really important score in our company. Um, so you guys are on the right path.

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Yeah, that's hilarious. Um you can't lease it if it's not ready, or if it isn't, you know, like four if you have no availability that's ready online, you're not gonna get as many leads. So yeah, um, you need you need it to be accurate because that goes into the formula on our lead generation that we're getting.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

This is a good way to kind of tie it up because you just said something you said accurate, and I think we're all still struggling with accuracy, accuracy in our listings, accuracy in our data. It is hard. I never I don't think I can ever say I have one single source of truth, which is sad, right? Like, I can take all of this data and I can take my experience and I can tell a story for sure, but the data, like, you can't just say like 100% this is what's happening because it's so we get so muddled up. Um, and I think our industry is is kind of unique in that way. Um, I don't I know it gets muddled everywhere, but I don't think it's as muddled as multifamily with all of the third parties that we use and all of the data that we're trying to pull in, and they don't all talk to each other. And we, you know, this is a conversation that we've had over and over again. Um, we do a really good job, I think, of of taking that data, dissecting it, and doing a great job of analyzing it on our own. But wouldn't it be nice if we had a tool that helped us do that and we had clean data?

SPEAKER_02 39:59

Yeah, I completely agree. It and it can be so overwhelming because there's so much data. And how do you sort through that data? Um and yeah, it's and then just like you said, there's conflicting data. Like we have some of the same same system, you know, systems under the same umbrella and they report different things. And so we've just as a company had to decide what data we're looking at in which area, and then build our KPIs and our weekly reporting on that set.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Exactly. I mean, it's not perfect, but we can get pretty close. And I think we're getting better and better at it. And I love that there's more marketers like Ann and I that are out there that are willing to dive in and do the hard work and ask these questions and actually look at our booked tours versus non-booked and self-guided versus not and AI versus human and all of the things that we're looking at, because we also get a lot more data than we've ever had too, right? And that's the other piece of all of this is we have a lot of data we have to sift through to make these decisions. But it's kind of great. And I think I'm gonna, I know I'm going to add some of the things that you talked about on some of my reporting. Some of the stuff that we've talked about, I do in a monthly KPI, not a every Monday KPI. But I do think some of the things you spoke about are real important on that Monday to drive that conversation, right? What do you think, Ann? Should we ask her the question? Google versus chat.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

I know. It's the question. The question. All right, Amy. First of all, we had so much fun talking to you about data. We didn't even get to like the lease, like we had like 20,000 things planned that we were going to talk about. And as always, you shared so much wonderful information with us that, you know, until next time, next time we'll tackle lease up strategies. But we like to leave our guests uh with a question. And the question is do you think that Google search is going to, with the kind of invention of AI search engines, do you think that traditional Google search will go away?

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Traditional, okay. This is so yes, I do think traditional Google search will go away because I think traditional Google search is going to be replaced with AI search. I think you we start to see that trend of users going the route. I think people are obviously a lot of people are still using Google itself. Um, but I think people are using both. I think they're asking Google and then really asking Chat GPT the specific details. They're looking for Chat GPT to make the decisions for them. Once they get enough information from whichever source, um, the apartment list, the Zillows, the Apartments.com, like they're compiling all the information, Google putting in ChatGPT and telling ChatGPT to make the decision for them. Um, I think Google is going to shift the Google search itself to using just the AI platform. Okay. I like Google.

SPEAKER_01 43:12

So Google's not Google's not dying. By the way, I did ask that differently than I normally do. Usually I'm just like, I think Google's dying. What do you think? So like I feel like I did qualify that a little bit, but you did better, Ann.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

You did a lot better. You did a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Yeah, I got a different and I have a different response for that.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Okay, let me ask a let me ask you this, Ann. This is a serious question because I do, and I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm just old too old school here, but I think one of the the the most valuable benefits of Google is seeing it on a map with everything else around it. And I have not seen uh chat GPT give me the location parameters as well as Google. And I think location, I I don't even think 100% location. Matters, period. All things set aside, if you have an if you have the money and money doesn't matter and price doesn't matter, you're probably picking one location over another. And I think that until chat brings it truly gives you a good idea of the location and can show you on a map where your local I'm not a Starbucks fan, but a lot of people are. That's why there's so many of your local Starbucks or your local dominoes or whatever you're into. To me, like Google, that is their huge, their biggest strength, is they give you that along with all the other information, like the reviews and the website and the contact info. Uh, because it's also a directory, right?

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Yeah, that's interesting. I think that people are gonna start training themselves to search to like search like that though on chat GPT or like AI. Do you know what like they're gonna be very specific?

SPEAKER_00 44:51

So chat is gonna have to figure out how to give you that function though, because it's visual too. It gives you the directions, it gives you the time there. I mean, chat can you could say, chat, how long is it gonna take me from this address to this address, and it'll pop it for you. But it doesn't give you, it's not like Google Maps on your phone or something. And so I just think of it in those terms where Google is giving you a lot of information. I do use them separately, and I've I've been open about that. How I use my search, and I I kind of use it all any easy is just talk about it. I use Google, get all my background, and then I tell ChatGPT, okay, make the decision for me.

SPEAKER_02 45:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

I do that with my minivan.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

Yep. Right, or just keep asking it questions until you have a satisfied answer. And that is the amazing thing about ChatGPT, is you can just really drill down. I mean, for example, I'm looking on, we are seeing more data from our website coming from Copilot, ChatGPT. And so I'm sitting here asking, I asked four different um platforms, best apartments near me or in in my neighborhood, whatever. And every single one of them gave a different response. However, two of them actually cited their sources on where they were pulling the best neighborhoods. So I drilled down and I asked, where why are you citing this source? Yeah, and they each gave me different responses on why they're why they're citing that source, um, which is a whole nother conversation in itself. It's I it's fascinating when you actually like really start using Chat GPT. But then I think that goes into there's a little bit of a to answer your question, Chris, like trust trustworthy factor. Because you can get so much different information. Um I don't think people fully trust it. And you have to ask it the right question to get the right answer. Yeah. For example, is Google dead? I cheated. And I asked Google, I asked Chat TBT, is Google dead?

SPEAKER_01 46:59

They say no, they're so polite. They're like, no, Google always have a place, right?

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Is how but yes, but in that long-winded response, there's a statistic in there that says the Google chat, the Google P the people using the space, the AI, the goo, um, the search itself is down by like one percent. So I'm like, okay, who stole the other one percent? Bing. Bing stole the other one percent. And so I'm like, wait a second, I have Bing automatically pop up on my computer when I log in every day, but I don't use Bing for search. I type Google in for search for Bing. So then I'm like, how many people are what is what's the most search word in Bing? You know what the most search word in Bing is? Google. Google. So it's not that the you it's not actually that the searches are down in Google because Bing stole the searches in Google. And so when you then I asked it just more questions, okay. So what is the percentage of people using the Bing searches that are actually Google searches? It's like estimated seven to eight percent. So when you include that into Google, Google searches are actually up. But if you're not asking those questions, you're not getting that answer.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

And this sounds like such an and day. Like you're a whole conversation. You guys are gonna like go toast champagne somewhere. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

I know that was awesome. I at a conference with drinks, talking about like the most random, like I'm very excited for whenever this is gonna happen. Um, thank you so much for joining us. This was really truly wonderful, and I can't wait until the next time we all get to talk to each other. So um, you know, if you guys are interested, please connect with Amy on LinkedIn. Um, and until next time, this has been the apartment department. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Carlos, thank you, Flamingo, and uh, we'll talk to everyone soon. Thank you.