The Catholic Pursuit of Excellence

Detachment from Outcomes with Lisa Canning

• Jessica Castillo • Episode 11

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#011 - What does it truly mean to strive for excellence and be detached from outcomes? Lisa Canning, known as the "Possibility Mom," joins us to unpack these questions from a Catholic viewpoint.

Lisa shares how it's possible to balance ambition with spiritual integrity. This conversation is rich with insights on pursuing excellence while staying grounded.

We discuss how relying on Jesus has helped us navigate turbulent waters and how such trials can deepen our relationship with the Lord.

We explore the vital balance between personal effort and divine trust and how embracing this balance can fortify our spiritual journey. It's about who we become in the process of our pursuit of excellence.

Connect with Lisa on Instagram.
Learn more about Lisa and her husband's ministry Persevere Together.
Check out The Guiding Star Project. 


Are you ready to build high-impact habits of body, mind, and soul that actually stick? Check out the Catholic Path to Excellence today to find out how you can be more consistent in your habits and excel in every aspect of your life.

Feeling "stuck" in your life? Coaching could be the solution you need to break through whatever is holding you back. Book a FREE Call with me today to find out how I can help you.

Speaker 1:

You're listening to the Catholic Pursuit of Excellence, the show that helps you accomplish more, stress less and become the saint God created you to be. I'm your host, life and health coach, jessica Castillo, and I am joined today by none other than the possibility mom herself, lisa Canning. Lisa, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2:

I'm so happy to be here. I love your new podcast. It makes me very, very, very happy to hear it.

Speaker 1:

Thank you. I'm pretty excited about it myself. So one of the really cool things about this show is we get to explore what it means to, as a Catholic, really strive for and pursue excellence, and I think that it's so important that we have a show like this that is from a very Catholic perspective, because the way the world pursues excellence and the way we are called to pursue excellence as Catholics can sometimes look very different. However, we all know when we see Catholics in the public space who are really excellent at whatever they do whether it is like a sports star or even a coach or a musician or an actor or an actress and we recognize excellence, we see this person is doing exceptionally at whatever it is that they're doing, and it might not have anything to do with the Catholic church or evangelization directly, but they're excellent at what they do and that attracts people.

Speaker 1:

I think that excellence attracts people. However, I think sometimes we can get really confused about what does it mean to strive for and pursue this excellence without getting completely wrapped up in outcomes and to be very graspy and clingy about it, and I have learned so much about this particular concept from none other than Lisa Canning, so I thought she would be the perfect person to have on the show to talk about. What does that look like? What does it feel like to really and truly be detached from outcomes while striving to be your best?

Speaker 2:

striving to be your best. I mean I wish I was not an expert in this. I mean I say that kind of playfully, but I've had some unique experiences that have, just through the school of hard knocks, taught me what it looks like to detach from the outcome. I think it's interesting. I grew up in an industry so I got my start in television and then I went into high-end interior design because my start in television was on an HGTV show and a lot of the people I surrounded myself with were really really great people but very concerned with I guess competition is the easiest way to put it. Like my observation of a lot of my colleagues was that they were always chasing the best project, or the cover of the magazine, or the this, the that Okay, now I need the best project in another country. There was always this pursuit of something more Same thing in television. Like there was always a better show to be on a better time slot. And of course, when you're around people like I'm very fascinated by what influences our motivations, right, obviously we're motivated or we learn that something is true from our parents, from our family of origin, there are certain concepts that become then ingrained in us and we believe our truth, whether they're actually true or not, we believe that they're true. Right, and similarly, especially in the very beginning of your career, one can just be like well, this is obviously what makes sense. This is obviously what I must strive for, and so I developed lots and lots and lots of habits that were really challenging to unlearn or to soften. And that's the thing I think you're hitting on is that how do you pursue excellence? So how do you do something, be the best at something, or do something to the best of your abilities? And it's interesting. I've gotten a lot of value from digging into my M-code assessment. M-code is a assessment that looks at your unique motivations, developed by Dr Josh Miller and his family at the Franciscan University of Jubinville, and one of my top motivators is to excel. I'm pretty sure it's yours as well, right? Yeah, I am very motivated by being the best at whatever it is, and so there is this interesting tension that exists between the performance. I think there's some integrity there as well, like meaning just doing something at your absolute best because you value doing something well, but then a detachment that when you have done that so you have treated it with integrity, like it's funny.

Speaker 2:

I'll just give a quick. I'm a mom of 10, my oldest is 15 and he just did, for the very first time, exams in a high school setting. And he was like, mom, I'm just like not even going to study for my Latin exam. And I was like that's an interesting suggestion. I was like that's very interesting. That is one way that you could proceed about your Latin exam.

Speaker 2:

And so I kind of prodded him a little. I was like, well, why wouldn't you study? Oh well, I just really don't care about it. And like I'll probably get a good grade anyway, like whatever, right. And I was like, okay, that's like a decision you can make. So, yeah, if you feel like you actually are adept enough to do this well, without studying, sure, but I really challenged him. I was like but I really want you to examine and consider is this how you would approach this with high integrity? It might be and it might not be, but I really want you to examine it.

Speaker 2:

And then at the end of the 20 minute conversation he was like yeah, okay, maybe I'm being lazy and I really should just study. And I was like all right, very intrigued by how people justify behavior. I do it all the time, you know, like all the time, but I've had to become aware of where am I justifying things? Anyways, that's a whole other, just pet project I'm currently working on. Where in my life am I noticing that I'm justifying or excusing perhaps not the most virtuous of behavior, and where can I increase that? So yeah, basically, that's it is. How can you pursue something with excellence but then be okay when it doesn't work out?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think it's really interesting where you're talking about in that in your background, with HDTV and interior design and just bringing that into your current business and into your, you might've had some of these habits where it is almost like a refusal to be content with where you are and what you have accomplished.

Speaker 1:

You can only seek for the next level and push forward, and I do think that that's a very big distinction, not just the detachment from outcomes, not just I am going to pursue this goal, I'm going to do my best, I'm going to strive, I'm going to and I think we all recognize what that feels like when we are at the absolute edge of our capabilities and it feels kind of awesome because we are pushing, we are stretching, we are growing, we're becoming that better version of ourselves, that saint version of ourselves.

Speaker 1:

Honestly, if we're doing it with virtue and it feels good to be pushing ourselves in that way, I think the shadow side of it is when we refuse to also be grateful for the process itself and to recognize actually it's in the pursuit that I can be grateful, because it feels good to be doing this work, to be doing honorable work.

Speaker 1:

Whatever it is, your honorable work could be digging a ditch as well as you can dig that ditch. But when you are pushing yourself and you are toiling at work because work is honorable, work is a gift from God when you're toiling in that way, with virtue, with honor, it doesn't matter how big the ditch is or how deep the hole is, or how it's the best ditch that anyone's ever dug in the whole history of ditch digging the hole is, or how it's the best ditch that anyone's ever dug in the whole history of ditch digging. What matters is you gave it your all and did your best, and that in itself is an honor, because if the Lord of the universe hands you a task to do which is basically every task we have when we show up to it and do it well, it's honorable to serve the Lord in that way.

Speaker 2:

You know it's the process that you're talking about where I have had to grow significantly in the last few years. I've shared publicly on my podcast a couple big business sad bears experiences, and just one notable one was I hosted a really big summit. I wanna say this is like August 2021, I want to say so a couple of years ago from time of recording and my previous summit. So we're talking like in the pandemic, when everyone was home and had nothing else to do but watch these online summits over and over again. All my previous summits had been in the multi-value figures, like they were very successful summits. And then I hosted this one in August and I remember just being like check, check, check. I've checked all the boxes. I did that thing with full integrity, like it was done excellently and the financial outcome did not happen at all, like not even a little bit at all. And I remember I know you'll appreciate this I was counting conversions on Sunday, mass sitting in the pew during mass counting, calculating the conversion that based on I knew I was going to get the most sales Sunday. Typically there's a last chance kind of thing that would happen on the Sunday night, so I knew I was going to get the most sales. Sunday Typically there's a last chance kind of thing that would happen on the Sunday night. So I knew more would come. But you knew you had an indication, based on registrations and all that kind of thing, what your likely outcome was going to be in the evening. And I just remember sitting there in mass, literally like calculator in my head, and realizing that it was not going to be the financial payout that I was hoping for. That's just one example.

Speaker 2:

I have lived a lot of life in the last 24 months that have also shown me that it's so much more about the process. And here's the thing when we realize what the ultimate goal is in life, truly like when you pull back the camera greater to 30,000 feet and you're looking at truly just what is the actual point? The actual point is the process. Actual point is what is happening to prepare ourselves for our ultimate destination. And even as I'm saying it literally, there's a voice in my head, jessica, that is saying yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally there's a voice in my head that goes yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you still want to be the best and you still want to do the thing. But it's been very much impressed upon me.

Speaker 2:

Just some unique things have happened. I had a miscarriage in the last two years. We moved internationally in the last two years. I wouldn't say that I was all that excited to move from where I was. We could not find housing in the new spot that we landed. We lived in 10 homes in 10 months while I was pregnant with baby number 10.

Speaker 2:

I will chuckle with God about how poetic he is in his use of the number 10 in my life, but it was a process like talk about a process, and I was the sole breadwinner for much of that period and so I couldn't exactly just like crawl into a hole and cry Although, to be frank, for a lot of the last 24 months that was my inclination. I just wanted to take like all my kids and my husband and just sort of like nuzzle in a little burrow, a little hole, and just be happy and cozy and not worry about the outside world and definitely not show up on the internet. But I couldn't do that because we had bills to pay and we had children to educate and clients to serve and obligations and all the things, and so I had to learn what it looks like to be excellent or to just pursue things with excellence. Do your best to pursue things with excellence when you really just want to hide and cry and be sad. And that was just the very valuable learning lesson over this last season of my life. I'll call it in understanding that it truly is about the process, my husband. There have been some significant trials, trials that I share publicly and I'm happy to share publicly, some significant trials, trials that I share publicly and I'm happy to share publicly. But then trials that I will never share publicly and are just for the privacy of myself, my husband and the Lord. And we just went through something that is on the more private end.

Speaker 2:

And my husband brought this book to me. It was interesting. It's a Father Jacques Philippe book and, forgive me, the title is escaping me, but it's a newer one and it had a question in it. Reflect for a moment on people who you have observed have suffered a lot, but their suffering has actually brought them closer to the Lord. And he was like Lisa, that's you Like, as he was reading it himself.

Speaker 2:

He was like I have watched you become absolutely reliant on the Lord and I think that's the danger. I guess I'll call it, for lack of better word right now. But the danger that can come when you're a high achiever and you're used to, is you can just simply think that you can do everything on your own by your efforts, by your skills, by your talents. And I'll be honest, I still find this a little confusing, jessica, because it is my skills and talents, like it is, I participate in that. Like I'm the one who gets up and exercises, I'm the one who gets up and makes nice meals for my family. Like I'm the one who gets up and exercises, I'm the one who gets up and makes nice meals for my family. Like it is me I'm making the choice to do it. So it does confuse me still sometimes, if I'm being really honest. But experientially I've learned that a reliance on that kind of thinking and yes, we do participate with the Lord, but a reliance on that kind of thinking, and yes, we do participate with the Lord, but a reliance on that kind of thinking is what can get you into a little bit of trouble.

Speaker 2:

And I really believe that the Lord has invited me for the last 24 months or so to just bring me literally to the end of myself, kind of like I've moved all the chess pieces. I've done all the things and yet it still hasn't worked out. There have been a couple of things in my life where I have put in all the effort and it still hasn't worked out. But the Lord has allowed it because of something greater that there is to work out, and that is me. That is me interior life, and this is not reserved for Lisa Canning, this is all of us. He allows things to happen because there is something so much greater that he is working on and that is our ability to trust him, our ability to be docile, our ability to understand that he is the one who is truly in charge of everything you know and that we can trust him.

Speaker 2:

I mean, I could talk about honestly, I could go on for hours and hours about this, because it's a bit of a mystery. Meaning that I think cerebrally, I still want to think my way out of everything and, again, that is not necessarily bad. Meaning you still need to participate in your own life, like we're not lemmings, right? The Lord has given us free will and agency, so he's not just like pressing, play on like a tape and then I'm just operating a little. There's a participation there that he has given me the latitude, so to speak, to participate in. Like there is a co-creation 100%. But at the same time I have to learn with a lot of humility, like a humility is sort of like a living breathing entity, that's like a passenger alongside my trip. You know, I have to learn with a lot of humility that every breath I take, every opportunity, literally every time I have a stage to speak on, it is only because I have a loving father and the Holy Spirit and the grace that is present that truly makes everything possible.

Speaker 2:

Career can be taken away real quick, like either by an injury or by the economy or by some other circumstance. Like your career can disappear in a moment it really can but other things aren't going to disappear. Your family isn't going to disappear, your life, the breath in your lungs, but your career can truthfully, in a moment, be completely gone. And so for anyone listening that has that same driven desire to do really well, to make a lot of money, to be excellent, it's just by necessity. We must remember that, just the nature that career especially is not permanent. It's just a very trust me when I say learn it earlier than later, because it can cause a lot of unnecessary suffering.

Speaker 1:

You have just brought out so many good points and I just want to kind of highlight a few of the things you said. One was basically kind of the downside of being a high achiever or someone who's driven to excel, which is that temptation to think that it's either all on us or all from us, or we have these talents, we have these abilities. Therefore, we almost have this temptation to say, okay, lord, I got it from here, you know. And then we want to take the ball and run away and do it on our own. And I feel like if there were an easier way for us to learn the difficult lesson that we need to trust the Lord that he would totally do it the easy way. But because some people, myself included we are the kind of personality that's like no, I got to learn this one the hard way, and I've had that experience in my life too, where it's almost like it was necessary that I got pushed to the absolute end of what I could handle so that the Lord could finally say look, but I got you and I am going to carry you, and this is not all you.

Speaker 1:

And I think the book that you're referencing actually I think it's Searching for and Maintaining Peace by Father Jacques Philippe, because I remember reading a passage in that and you might talk about it in more than one book where he talked about how watching the suffering of others can sometimes cause us to lose our peace, but definitely keeping that, like you said, the 30,000-foot perspective, that long-range view of what's the point and St Paul would talk about this and how athletes train in every way for a perishable crown, right, they discipline their bodies, they discipline their diets. They're training for this crown that will perish, but we're training for a crown that doesn't perish. We're running for that other crown that's really to become the saints that we were created to be, and that's why that's part of the tagline of this show, because it recognizes that, yeah, we want to be the city on the hill, the light that's giving light to everyone. We want to shine forth in the world and let people see the good works that we're doing and the excellence that we're doing things with, because, if you think about it, you're not going to be attracted to someone who doesn't seem to have their life together. Right, I'm just trying to think about if you are, for instance, out at the supermarket and you see a mom with her kids and she's like shouting at everyone and she's frazzled and everything's chaos you're not necessarily thinking that is someone I want to be like right.

Speaker 1:

But if you go to the supermarket and there's another woman who has similarly lots of children running around asking her questions and asking for things and I think I'm using this example because I literally just got back from grocery shopping with all my kids before we started recording this and everyone was asking me for things and talking to me and trying to negotiate our clipboard system and all of my children want to have deep conversations with me while we're shopping. So it can be a little much to triage, but I was just kind of trying to stay patient with them and talk with them and we're kind of navigating the aisles of the supermarket and there was a lady behind me in the checkout line who was observing what my interaction with my kids was like and she was like, wow, you're being really patient with them and I'm like, oh, and in my mind I'm like I'm just momming. This is just momming, you know, but at the same time I can recognize, because you do see, the alternate version of that. And this is just a silly little example, but the reason I think about it is we recognize that any patience I have, even to deal with my kids with patience, that's because he started my day with prayer and begged the Lord to give me the patience that I would need, knowing that I was going to be with my kids all day and I was going to have to navigate situations with them.

Speaker 1:

But we recognize, like Lisa was saying, this is totally both. This is our participation in the work that the Lord has given us to do Because, like you said, lisa, you wanted to curl up in a little burrow and not do the work. But you had to make a choice. You had to choose to still keep showing up and to keep doing the work that the Lord had given you to do. But we also recognize that even that good impulse to choose comes from the Lord. So we can't even like pat ourselves on the back too much. We're like, oh, I made a really good choice. But it's like, okay, all of it's grace. I don't remember which saint said that, but everything is grace. Maybe it was Saint Therese. Everything is grace. The talent, that's grace. The ability to make a good choice, that's grace. The circumstance, that's grace. It's all grace. But yeah, it is very interesting to think about what's the point and why are we striving.

Speaker 2:

And what's important to remember too. Father Mike Schmitz did a homily on this. I think it was the second week of Lent and I remember it so distinctly because I listened to the homily so many times, because it articulated for me why I whine so much and I encourage people to go listen to it if you struggle like I do. He basically just said it's completely fine to ask why, Like what's the point? Why is this happening? Why am I even bothering? Why am I trying? This is so hard, why are you doing this to me, Lord? He was like it's completely fine to ask that question, as long as you remember who and that's the really like important distinction If you believe that our God is a good and loving father, then this can all make a little bit more sense.

Speaker 2:

It's for your benefit. The same way that conversation with my son I could have just been like yeah, okay, don't study for Latin. Okay, whatever, no big deal. He might then decide the next exam he doesn't feel like studying for. He might decide to also not study for that one the next time he decides in a situation like it could be helpful to help somebody out, but I'm actually really not feeling like it. So then he might think of that as well. Like the same way that I'm trying to equip my children to live good lives, Our father in heaven is doing the same, but that ultimate destination is forever life with him and deep intimacy with him, and so it's just so important to remember. Like we can whine and complain about the why, but the who is so important to remember.

Speaker 1:

Oh, absolutely. And just thinking about that deep intimacy, that is really what holiness is. It is that deep intimacy with the Lord, and I've often said before that there's no excellence that exceeds holiness. I mean, if we see the lives of the saints and how they lived, that's when we're like, so inspired, because we see these lives of excellence and we're like, yep, that was an excellent life, and so in each of our various roles and capacities, that's really the kind of excellence we're called to. That's really the kind of excellence we're called to. And if, in the attainment of that excellence, we also happen to be successful in business, or be excellent in sports, or be excellent in parenting or whatever it is that we're striving for, that's almost the icing on the cake, and not so much the cake itself, like the point of the whole thing.

Speaker 2:

I'm very fascinated by the Opus Dei community because you will often find people in Opus Dei are very successful and I have found it to be just a curious thing to dig into. As I shared, I'm very, very curious about people's motivations and how they show up in the world, why they show up the way they do, and Opus Dei is just an interesting one to me. When you sit in an Opus Dei recollection or a circle, you're often looking around the room and you're like and there's a CEO and there's a CFO, and there's a this and there's a that, like it's often you're surrounded by very high caliber people and I think, because they have so built into the sort of like anthropology of their practice, the Opus Dei community just like really, really good habits, so like going to daily mass, and they have like apostolic work, like there's an emphasis on are you journeying with people? So I think the two can absolutely go hand in hand. But it actually will influence how successful one can become because you are training yourself in these habits that are, like you talked about the perishable crown like you're training yourself in the habits that will give you true long term, if you will, excellence, like my spiritual director when I whine and complain and bring him the typical things I bring him.

Speaker 2:

Why is life so hard, father Damien? Constantly, I'm just constantly like can I not just catch a break like this? I could literally sometimes press play on how my spiritual direction goes, because it is often just like little child complaining. I'm not trying to undermine or I'm not trying to dismiss my own challenges, but it truly. If you hit record on my spiritual direction, it's often the same kind of theme and he will be the first to be like all right, how many times did you make it to mass this week? And I'll be like just Sunday, how many times did you do your morning prayer time and your examination of conscience in the evening? And I'll be like yeah, maybe once you know what I mean Like, and he'll just be like well, there you go. No wonder life is feeling really hard. You're not doing some of the things that you know will help you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the spiritual practices, jessica. You know, for anyone listening that is like oh, but I have like a bunch of kids Like I can't, there's no way. I used to think like that too. You know I've got 10 kids, 15 to little baby. I get it Like I'm very much in the trenches of little children and diapers and all the things. I totally get it.

Speaker 2:

But I think developing these spiritual practices is something that you don't realize the benefit of until you've done them for a while. Then you feel the absence and you're like whoa, oops, whoa, like I really miss this, and then you get back into that habit again. But I remember when I was first sort of examining my lifestyle and trying to fit in more during the week, so rather than just going to mass on Sunday, trying to make it to the Adoration Chapel, trying to make it to daily mass, praying the rosary daily, like when I was trying to incorporate more of these habits, I just remember being like there is absolutely no way I have time for any of this. But remarkably, you really do have time. You might not think you do, and certainly if you're in a rural area or what have you, there might not be. There may be some totally challenging circumstances, but I just would encourage you to get curious about how could you make it possible, and there are so many ways one can make it possible.

Speaker 2:

I have so many random stories like moms going with their minivans and just parking in the church parking lot and so all the kids are just in the cars and the air conditioned cars and so moms take turns, like watching all the kids in the minivans They've got their TVs on or whatever. Or similarly, where I used to live, the moms kind of band together and all the moms and the kids would be in one house and then our parish priest would be in the house across the street and it was like a confession morning and it was actually the best you like got to socialize and like have a really nice time. The kids all played together, people would bring snacks and it was like a spread. Oh my gosh, I actually felt like gluttonous. I was like I need to now go confess gluttony because we're here for this wonderful sacrament. But I feel like, but one should celebrate when one is clean.

Speaker 2:

But my point is is that it might at first glance seem insurmountable. There is no way I can take a bunch of small kids to adoration or figure out how to go to spiritual direction. Like. It might seem insurmountable in the beginning, but get a little creative, rely on help from others and make it a priority. I'm sure this audience will not be stranger to the concept of what is in your calendar reveals what is important to you. So literally make it an appointment. Make it literally your first appointment of the day. Kristalina Evert we had a podcast together not too long ago and she was like it's the first meeting of my day. The first meeting of my day is my CEO, which is the Lord, and so she was referencing getting to daily mass at nine o'clock or whatever, like literally one of the first appointments of the day. And so just again, encouragement that there might be a way that it makes sense and it just might take some creative thinking.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I love how infinitely creative the Lord is when you bring to him something and you just say, lord, I love you. You know I love you. How do you want me to spend time with you this week, and can you show me how to make this work? Because I don't see it and you'd be amazed. Sometimes those ideas will just come into your mind or you might envision yourself doing something in a way you've never done it before, but it's just very clear in your mind that this is how you could do it.

Speaker 1:

And I'm reminded of something a Franciscan friar wrote in a book. It's called Habits for Holiness and he talks about the creativity of love and how we can get creative and then we can find ways to be with our loved one when we are creative. And then another thing he talks about in that book that I was thinking about just now while you were speaking is what he calls the efficiency of holiness, which I love, because think about how much time we waste in sin, think about how much time we waste in self-reliance or in worry or preoccupation with the past or the future or all of these things, and it's like man, how efficient is it to be holy? So if we actually made it our first priority that number one on my to-do list is be a saint, become holy then everything else not only falls into place as it should, but it actually can happen better and easier and faster. And I think it's that original temptation of the devil that tells us did God really say you have to spend all your time praying and you can never do anything else? And it's like a twisting of what the truth is, which is God did invite us to pray always, but not necessarily in a chapel if we're not able to be at church all the time, but in our lives and in what we're doing.

Speaker 1:

And it's like that original temptation, which was the lie that God had something good but he was holding it back from us, whereas when we understand who our God is and how much he loves us, we see, yeah, he has something good for you and he wants to give it to you so badly, but your hands are so clenched tight on something else that you need to open up the grasp of your fingers and let him actually pour out what he wants to give you. That's really what I'm thinking when I think detachment from outcomes, because we cling and we grasp and we hold and we strive and we're so intent. But what if we could both strive for excellence, strive for holiness, with open, loose hands and enjoy the process, because the process is all we got really. We'll reach one goal and shoot for another, so we just keep moving forward, and I think that that's where we can really strive for excellence in a very Catholic way.

Speaker 2:

And it can be enjoyable. It certainly has moments where it's not enjoyable, but even in the moments where it's difficult, I believe that we can praise him for what is happening. And my very favorite hymn my children, they all give each other like a knowing kind of like look when this hymn comes on in mass, because they'll all just be like, get ready. It's like three lines and mom's going to be crying, but it's so praising, and there's several lines, but it's the third verse and where, like, I will triumph through my sorrows and rise to bless you, still, to marvel at your beauty and glory in your ways, and make a joyful duty, my sacrifice of praise, something like that. I might've missed a couple of words there, but even when it's hard, I will sing your praise, Lord, I will glorify your name and yes, it's a choice, Jessica Like, yeah, we have a choice to do that, but in a way and I mean that's not in a bad way Like in a way it's also just obedient.

Speaker 2:

I think the faster one can recognize that life is not going to be easy but that's not bad you know, business is not going to be easy, but that's not bad. I think the faster one can recognize and realize and just accept that as reality. Many things can then be made available. This intimacy with the Lord that we've been talking about requires a little bit of living in reality and acceptance of these truths, you know. So you can complain and ask the questions why. But as long as we come back to the who, we're in good shape.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely, Lisa. This has been so good. You've shared so much wisdom. I'm so grateful for your time.

Speaker 2:

Where can everyone find out more about you and the work that you do? At Lisa Canning on Instagram is probably where, if you're interested in life with 10 children and what it looks like, I do share every Monday. I do a day in the life of navigating many different things. I run a coaching business where I help Catholic moms specifically understand these concepts of business and my Wealth Without Guilt community. I will galvanize you and cheer you on, but also give you the very specific enablement to take those next steps one step at a time, and so I invite you to learn about the work I'm doing over there.

Speaker 2:

My husband and I have something that we do together called Persevere Together, where we support Catholics who have mental illness present as a challenge in their marriage, and so you can, on my Instagram, get a link over there. And then, finally, I am very honored to serve the charity, the Guiding Star Project, where we have a vision for the future, where no women fear pregnancy. And again, just this unique combination of things in my life is what has given me. The words that are coming out of my mouth today, like the unique things that the Lord has allowed, the opportunities that he has given me, is what has fueled a lot of the words, a lot of the wisdom, a lot of the experience, and it's meant to be shared.

Speaker 2:

I think that's just one final thing I'd love to just sort of end on is that we are not meant to do life alone, like we're not meant to do the suffering and the struggle alone, like we're not meant to do the suffering and the struggle alone.

Speaker 2:

And so just the encouragement to accompany people I think there's a lot out there on recognize when life is hard and reach out and bring dinner to somebody. Sure, that's all very important and I'm not trying to belittle that, but I'm also on the flip side of that is the active part of accompanying others. So, meaning, where can you be on the lookout and have conversations with people to help them process what the Lord is doing in their life? Take a conversation that maybe, when the playground after school pickup is, the temptation might be to keep it very surface level, but with one additional question, you're helping somebody process and become more aware of what the Lord is doing. And this whole notion, again, of surrender, of detachment and of understanding what the point is of our lives. And so just maybe a little challenge for your listeners today. How can you be on the lookout for how you can journey with somebody and make this more clear to them?

Speaker 1:

That is so good and so great. So, yeah, that's our challenge and we'll be focusing on that. Thank you again, lisa, for being here, so grateful for your time, and I will drop links to where you can find and connect with Lisa in the show notes so you can find Lisa that way.

Speaker 2:

Grateful for you, Jessica.