The Dad Bods and Dumbbells Podcast
The hosts Mitch and Bart discuss fitness, fatherhood, and guy stuff to help men live a great life, have fun, laugh, and get a little more fit in this weekly Podcast.
The Dad Bods and Dumbbells Podcast
Matt Choi's Leadville & Marathon Journey, being Authentic, and dealing with Social Media
What happens when a Division 1 football player swaps his helmet for running shoes? Join us as we welcome the dynamic Matt Choi, who shares his inspiring journey from the gridiron to the roads and trails of marathons and ultra-running. Initially poised to become a personal trainer, Matt took a surprising pivot during the pandemic, finding his niche on TikTok as a running influencer. Guided by Gary Vee’s advice, he embraced the platform to share his passion, and his journey rapidly gained momentum. Matt opens up about the mental and physical transitions required to excel in endurance running, offering insights into how his football discipline has shaped his current path.
Listeners will be captivated by tales of Matt's incredible achievements, including his quest to complete the Abbott World Marathon Majors, with Tokyo being a particularly hard nut to crack. Discover the rigorous ways runners can earn their spot in these prestigious races and the potential for Sydney and Cape Town to join this elite circuit. We also dive into Matt's personal feats, such as running across South Korea and tackling the grueling Leadville 100 ultra-marathon. These stories highlight the mental resilience needed to push through even the toughest challenges, as well as the emotional connections formed through these endeavors.
Beyond the races, our conversation covers essential topics like injury prevention and recovery strategies for runners, especially those just starting in their 30s and 40s. Matt shares valuable advice on strength training, plyometrics, and the importance of a positive mindset when dealing with setbacks. He candidly discusses navigating criticism, staying true to oneself amidst fame, and the dynamics of building trust and relationships in the world of running. Wrapping up, we reflect on Matt’s continued growth and the exciting possibilities for his future, fueled by determination and an unwavering belief in unlocking one's true potential.
Follow Matt Choi on Social https://www.instagram.com/mattchoi_6/
Check out Matt's Youtube Leadville 100 Documentary: https://youtu.be/gf3WLvVPYtg?si=VnoJqCrU7H0wA4UY
To Learn more about GLP-1s and Set Up a TeleMed Call with Solutions RX, use this link:
https://solutionsrxaustin.com/solutionsrxaustin-dadbods-and-dumbells
To Learn more about James and Mona De Lacey's Strength Programs, visit:
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Follow Mitch: http://instagram.com/runwithmitch
Follow Bart: http://instagram.com/bartonguybryan
Follow the Podcast: http://instagram.com/dad_bods_and_dumbbells
Visit Mitch's website: http://Bigboysruntoo.com
Visit Barton's Training Website: http://teambryanwellness.com
Welcome to DadBods and Dumbbells. My name is Mitch and I'm Bart. We have an amazing special episode today, but first I want to start by thanking Iron Neck for allowing us to use their studio for this episode. It's an amazing product, so make sure you check out. In the description, there is a 20% code that you can get and enjoy and try it for a discount, so check it out. Also, big Boys Run 2 merch is available. So if you're a big guy, small guy, medium guy or a girl who just wants to wear it, ironically, check out Big Boys Run 2, t-o-ocom and use the code Big Boy for 15% off your first purchase. So make sure you share, like, subscribe wherever you consume this content. Thanks for listening and watching. Share like, subscribe wherever you consume this content. Thanks for listening and watching.
Speaker 1:This episode is an interview with a creator, influencer, runner legend named Matt Choi. Coming from a D1 football program in college and he found the love of running. Taking his infectious personality to social media, he quickly became a juggernaut in the influencing runner space. He is currently seeking to compete in the six marathons known as the World Majors. This year. He ran a marathon a month in 2023 and also ran across South Korea as a way to discover and explore his heritage. He is one of the greatest marketers and creators in the influencer space, which has brought him to repping major brands. He also completed a documentary telling the story of his journey of finishing the Leadville 100 in under 25 hours. Please welcome Matt Choi. All right, welcome Matt Choi. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1:This is Dadbots and Dumbbells. We're so glad you chose to come out here, and I think the first question is do you consider yourself a dadbot or a dumbbell? I would definitely go dumbbell. What, dude, do you want to be like this? You don't want this type of frame. I'm not going to do so. Mitch Dude, it's crazy. I mean, how many marathons have you run without a shirt? I think every single one.
Speaker 3:I think the only one I didn't run with this that I did run a shirt on was probably my very my two first marathons. One was an unsanctioned one on my 26th birthday, and then the philadelphia marathon in 2021 were the only two races I think I ran with the shirt on, actually the first all-state marathon too. The first three races I ever ran were all worn with the with the shirt, and actually they were long sleeve shirts. Was it because it was?
Speaker 2:cold, it's a little chilly, yeah well, mitch keeps talking about how he gets uh nipples bleed from the shirt and I'm like take the shirt off. And Mitch says you don't want to see that you don't want to see that. This is the dad bod coming out.
Speaker 1:You don't want that dad bod jiggling around.
Speaker 3:Dude, there's a couple of people blooding shirts because their nipples are bleeding in.
Speaker 1:Chicago. I'm like never wear a light shirt in Chicago, never, I wear a dark black shirt. I wear a dark black shirt Always, always. Yeah, that's my goal. So I mean, that jumps us right into. How do you go from being a D1 athlete in football to being a marathon ultra runner, marathon runner.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think it takes time. I think it takes a level of commitment and discipline to adapt your body to take on more endurance challenges. And I think for me, like I learned so much through football, a lot of it's soft skills around, like being disciplined and staying committed to a goal, and I think once I hung up the cleats after I was done playing, I felt like I still had that fire in me. I just wanted to use it in something else and running kind of became that vehicle. During the pandemic, I just I got inspired by guys like David Goggins and other ultra runners that got into the space, but they hadn't always been ultra runners, yeah, like Jesse Itzler's of the world, real entrepreneurs that just used endurance running as a vehicle to test their limits and to unlearn some limitations in that sense.
Speaker 1:So did you ever see yourself being a running considered running influencer? Like was that ever the goal from the beginning?
Speaker 3:or like I mean, just how you got here. It's extraordinary. No, I mean, I never thought that that was going to be like the thing. To be honest, I started making cuts and because I wanted to be a personal trainer and I wanted to open up a gym and a facility. But when you're training right before the pandemic and then the pandemic happens, you start realizing that having a gym isn't that sexy and the overhead expenses and the actual business model isn't that great, it's not that lucrative. So I wanted to then think about how do I have the leanest business possible?
Speaker 3:And media was something that required limited employees. I didn't need a lot of people to work for me. I could just do all of it from my phone, and my content then became like the work right, and in that sense, I saw it as like I just my mind pivoted. I didn't know at that moment, though, that was going to be like a running content creator. I just was like oh, I'm going to think of myself as a media company, and I'm going to think of myself as a media company and I'm going to just build content in my distribution based on the interest that I had.
Speaker 1:And how quick did it like? How fast did it take?
Speaker 3:off. I mean it took I mean probably a year really before I grew any following on. Tiktok is like, really, where my audience grew first and that was just me like consuming a lot of Gary Vee, and at that time he was like shoving down everyone's throat and get on tiktok. Get on tiktok.
Speaker 3:At the moment I didn't really know how to like storytell or build content out on that platform, on any platform, but I was putting up five, six videos a day and just random stuff.
Speaker 3:It was me at the time training for football, it was training other athletes and I just was putting in a lot of reps.
Speaker 3:I didn't really know what I was aiming at, but I just was getting reps in and no different than when you first get to the gym. Like you know, when you first go to any gym or you start anything like any hobby, like when you do your first push-up, it sucks, but over time you keep putting reps in and like you compound that interest, you get a little bit better. Yeah, and for me, like that then grew to my my tiktok grew to like 100k and I was like, oh, it's not really like the most like organized audience, but like I just I knew that I had something, yeah, and it was from like some football videos went off, some running stuff went off, some like just random videos. I didn't really know how to like contextualize, but I I was like, okay, well, I was able to amass some following, and a lot of that didn't even transfer into Instagram yet, so for me that was kind of when I first saw like a glimpse of like oh, there's something here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when was your first like pay? When you got paid for it, like what was that first?
Speaker 3:The first big thing I got, before I even got paid, was I got to go to the Boston Marathon in 2021, when it wasn't in April. They pushed it to October because of the pandemic, so it was, and I never like. It still shocks me how much in the game I am now in the running world because I never went to a marathon. Growing up Like even growing up in New York York my dad and my mom were not into marathons. We never witnessed the New York City Marathon. The Boston Marathon was the first time where I was like, oh, there's a magnitude to this race. People spend their life dedicating to come and run this race. I went there on a brand trip with NordicTrack. I was brought on and two other creators, but I was the only one that was unpaid. Basically, I got gifted a treadmill and they paid for all my travel, but that was like the first moment where I got brought on, like a trip where I didn't have to pay for any of my travel, and one of the guys that was leading the campaign. He basically said to me he's like Matt, after this, you're going to start getting a lot of opportunities and I didn't really understand what he meant, but he got to meet me in person and felt my energy.
Speaker 3:And I think a lot of times with agencies, when they meet creators, they don't know if the creator is going to be like how. They are online and no different than any of us, right? You know someone online and then you meet them in person. Sometimes you get disappointed and sometimes you're like damn, they're just as dope. You meet them in person, sometimes you get disappointed, sometimes you're like damn, they're just as dope. Yeah, and I think for me, like I just show up in any room, I go to being the same person I am online, being the same person I'm at home, and I think for me, like that's just been a, it's been my like secret sauce in that sense, and it's just me. And I think even in that moment I didn't understand what that guy had meant when he said that. But then funny thing is, down the line that I started getting a bunch of stuff in my inbox of all these brand opportunities, that I started realizing that there's a legit business behind this thing. That's cool.
Speaker 1:I mean the first time we met. We met you, me and bart met you at the same time. We were at that running.
Speaker 2:It was the jesse, it was the jesse, it's lured, yeah like yeah, and I was there to see jesse, because I was trying to get him.
Speaker 1:He's already written a book. But I was trying to meet, uh, devin devin yeah, because I'd met him at the austin marathon. I was like, man, he needs to write a book, and so that was my main goal. And then I looked to my right. I was like that's freaking matt choy. He's been on my feed for like months now, and so I talked to you like hey, I just you're the exact same person in person as you are online. I was like, come to the office, and that was when it kind of all kind of struck, was like, hey and I there's something about this guy special. And then I got to meet your brother and just see what you guys were ultimately going to do in the vision for the future, which included going across, uh, south Korea, and there was a big, big plans, and so I'd love to talk a little bit about. Um know, you have you go from being a marathon a month in 2023. You're trying to get all six majors marathons. Which ones do you not have? Tokyo's?
Speaker 3:the only one I don't have, and are you going to hit that? Yeah, I mean, my goal is to be there in March. That'll kind of complete my six Abbott world majors and that is definitely one that, as a place to tokyo being a place I've never been to I'm like obviously really excited to have that opportunity. In the current day I do not have a spot in that race, okay, but I'm so bullish on the opportunity that, like, come a couple months, like I will have a spot running to run tokyo. However, how do you, how do you get a spot? So there's multiple ways you can get a spot. You can just like put your name into the ballot, where it's just an open ticket where all of us could put our name in. But the chance of you getting it is very slim. Sure, just because all the majors are coveted, like there's 50, 60,000 runners at every single one of those races and everyone wants to run them. So the percentage, the chance of getting your name in just by doing an entry, is very minimal.
Speaker 3:Another opportunity is to raise money through a charity, where in Tokyo it's a little bit different, where they basically have like a bidding system where, like, if I want to run for autism, I have to basically put in like a number that I want to raise and let's just say, like the minimum is like I think maybe $800. But the thing is, if you just put, you just put 800, a lot of people are going to put a 50 right, 1200, 1500, whatever it is. So if you don't put in a high enough bid, then you don't get it. And, unlike other races like new york or boston, like they're set numbers of contribution for certain um charities, but tokyo is the only one that has it, that's like an auction system, okay, um, and then there's other other ways to get in right, whether it's to like a brand, whether, um, you're doing something like with, uh, with, yeah, like different, like destination marathons and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So you can't qualify like you can't, isn't? Is there any no other way, like if you got a certain time at the chicago where that wouldn't qualify you?
Speaker 3:correct, correct, so there. And then another way is qualifying okay, um, and similar similar Boston, new York and all these other races. Like if you hit a certain time they take a portion of those people as well. But like, just cause you qualify it, sometimes you still don't get in right. Even Boston this year, 12,000 runners qualify for the Boston marathon but didn't get in because now it's getting so competitive, like there's so many new athletes getting into it, the times are getting faster, the performance from shoes help athletes run faster. So it's right now running is having that moment where you know there's an influx of new runners, there's an influx of new athletes and the technology and the performance in the shoes is now taking like the time at another level in a sense. So it's getting more competitive. But it's also a beautiful thing. It means that there's new people getting into it, which is obviously growing the sport, it's growing the brands and, yeah, at the end of the day, it's generating revenue for every side of it on the business level.
Speaker 1:That's cool. So what are the other five majors? I know Chicago, Boston, New.
Speaker 3:York, new York, those are the three in the States. And then London Okay, you've done that one, I've done London. And then Berlin, and then Tokyo, okay, and then there's talks right now that Sydney will be the seventh world major, and then Cape town is in the discussion. And then there's also one that they're talking about maybe in China they haven't announced where it would be, but right now they're six but obviously for Abbott as well, well and like. The thing is like the world majors is like relatively a newer concept within the past decade, 10 to 15 years, right, um, and obviously they see how much excitement and energy and the amount of runners that come to these races. So if you're sydney, if you're australia, like hey, great way to showcase your city too.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, like a mini olympics, you're getting people all over the world annually annually and that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3:And like, obviously, domestically for us is it'd be living in the states like how lucky are we that three of them are on our home turf? Yeah, but like, if you're someone that lives in australia, like to come to america like three times a year is a big ask, right. So I think it's only fair that like one should be on every continent. To be honest, right, like just to make it fair for everyone, yeah, that'd be cool.
Speaker 1:So tell me about, like your, all the different accomplishments that you've had. You've done two ultras, two 100 mile races, one being this year, leadville 100. The hardest ultra marathon in the country they say right In one hard country, and you ran across South Koreaorea. In 2023 you did marathon a month.
Speaker 3:what would you say, of all the things you've done, like it's one thing that you're like that was the hardest thing I've ever done I mean the career run, just because of the fact that like it's multi-day, it's just like um, it's a different challenge because you have to just keep showing up, like leadville was very challenging as well, but like there's like light at the end of the tunnel, knowing that after 25 hours, like you just call it, like you know, you get one day of suffering and then the next day, like we all get out, we go get some coffee and like get breakfast the next day, like there's something that's enlightening about the fact that you can see the end of the, like the end of the tunnel, but korea, like 10 days, 300 miles, which in that sense a one-third of what leadville is. But then to stretch it out, like even though there's more time to rest and recover, you just like it's. It's almost like you'd rather just get it like peel the Band-Aid off, right, it's like a slow burn. So in that sense I would say that one was just more daunting, because if you are dealing with some form of injuries and I was dealing with some injuries after like the fifth, sixth day and more so, just overuse, right, it's like your body's not used to wearing that distance for that many days. So I would.
Speaker 3:There's so many moments and there's so much time in between for you to say like let's just call it. You know, like think about it, like you actually get to go to sleep and then you wake up the next day and then you're kind of like slugging around and you're like contemplating, like damn, my foot is like it's bright, it's like it doesn't want to fuck, it doesn't want to move, like it's like I can't feel my foot, like there's so much time to just feel sorry for yourself and andate stopping, whereas Leadville, like you come into an aid station and Mitch was there crew chiefing like I'm coming into an aid station for three to five minutes and the thought of stopping is not never even a conversation, it's just a matter of like, how do I eat as many calories as possible and then move?
Speaker 2:So in that sense, like I was able to like I guess, like manage, like the emotional ride that ledville has to offer a little bit better than something that's like like taking over over a 10-day period yeah what was the personal experience like right, like running across korea and just you know, kind of connecting with the country of korea and you're korean, yeah, and like just going, like just the emotional journey that you went on just kind of being there and experience it in a personal way yeah, I mean it was.
Speaker 3:it's something that it's hard to even convey to people, because you know the parts of korea that I ran through most people never see, even people that live in korea. Like, if you live in seoul, which have 10 million people, the same size as new york, like you're not going to go to like 150 miles into the. The boonies right, it's basically just farming, right, it's agriculture um, very few people would spend time in those small cities. So for me, my brother and then two other friends of ours, I got to go on the trip, like for us to kind of experience it firsthand and like the amount of love and support that we got from just like locals that had no idea who we were or what we were doing, and to then see it on foot, where you, like I always say that it's traveling by foot is one of the best ways to experience a new city. I mean, then there's the concept of then running through a whole country to see it. Yeah, I mean you start to appreciate the smallest things that a country has to offer and I think for us, like seeing the farming and seeing all the like the fruits and vegetables that my grandma used to feed me and my brother back when we were super young and not really understanding like, oh, this isn't really like American stuff. But like now having a further appreciation of like you know, why is cabbage and kimchi so popular in Korea? Because it's a very resilient vegetable. Now having a further appreciation of like yo, why is cabbage and kimchi so popular in Korea? Because it's a very resilient vegetable. It can withstand a lot of cold temperatures, it can withstand summer heat.
Speaker 3:And I think, seeing all the elders that were working in these farms and seeing not even just the areas my parents grew up in because they didn't grow up in the farming land, they grew up outside of Seoul but to see people that looked like me, that were working in the farms, it was something that it's hard to really comprehend. Right, it's hard to process in that sense. But I think me and my brother, we hadn't been back to Korea for 20 years and we spent most of our time in Seoul. So the opportunity to actually run down it and for us, not even being able to speak that much Korean, like still feeling like there was like this connecting piece to all the locals that we got to interact with, whether it was at the coffee shop, as we were getting breakfast before we started running, or as we stopped for meals and stuff, and I think it was really special just to like get out of our comfort zone, because I think sometimes, as Americans, like it's so easy to never leave the States it's the biggest country in the world and it's so comfortable to always think that like, oh, oh, like when people come here and they don't speak English, we almost like look down on them as like oh, like you're like uneducated, but equally for us when we go there, it it's.
Speaker 3:We can't speak great korean, so like that feeling of not, of being a foreigner is such a humbling thing. Yeah, and I think the perspective, like the takeaway from that trip was just so much more around, like you know how awesome it is to see something on foot, but then to also experience those micro moments and conversations that you can't really get if you just stay in your hometown. You know, I like it.
Speaker 1:Most people, most people don't leave Texas.
Speaker 3:You don't have to, I have, so many friends that they just got their passport and they're like Matt, I'm ready to use my passport. I'm like yo don't do that thing. 100%.
Speaker 2:So we're, I'm going to take this one. So we're, you know we're talking about fatherhood fitness, guy stuff On the fitness tip, because you know there's a lot of people that get into running and whether it's it band, plantar fasciitis, like you know, shin splints, you name it right, it all, it all, it's all you know, kind of something that that is problematic for people that are runners. What are, what are some of the workouts and and things that you would advise somebody, whether they're, you know, in their 30s or 40s or just starting running, you know, to begin with, to to kind of get them to not fall into those traps of getting injured, especially those plaguing injuries that just don't go away that's a great question.
Speaker 3:I think there's a couple things I would say.
Speaker 3:The first thing would be around, um, the best way to to handle recovery that doesn't require that much time Doing myofascial release, so foam rolling using lacrosse balls and like really rolling out your calves and your shins that would be a great foundational piece.
Speaker 3:If you begin your running journey and you start to increase your volume, making sure that you're spending 10 to 15 minutes a day doing myofascial release specifically on the foot and lower calf area, that would probably be like something that that requires a $10, $15 commitment and then just time. Um, I think, when it comes to actual like exercises and like strength training, once again focusing on like lower, uh, lower leg, yeah, strengthening the soleus, the bottom part of your calf, and then also the gastroc, which is likeus, the bottom part of your calf, and then also the gastroc, which is like the meatier part of the upper calf, so a lot of that can happen in two ways like doing it from a seated position and then standing. Doing calf raises is one of the most slept on exercises for runners that I would recommend for anyone, whether they're experienced, intermediate or beginner, because if your foot cannot handle the load of even doing calf raises.
Speaker 3:Right, it's going to be very difficult to handle the load of running, which is like four or five times the force of your body weight right and so, and then you're doing that over several miles, and so it's correct and then if you think about half marathon marathon, I mean, we're talking hours, right so I think that would be like first start with myofascial release, then lower foot calf strengthening from, and like loading the weight, right, I think people think like, oh, but like doing calf raises is boring, it's unsexy, like you're not going to get a massive pump just doing calf raises.
Speaker 2:Right, it's unsexy, but it's like that's something that you brought up seated and standing, because standing works the gastroc and the seated works the soleus, which a lot of people deal with achilles tendonitis, which I have as well.
Speaker 3:A lot of people have shin splints, which I have as well.
Speaker 2:And all this is from personal experience, because I've, over the past five years, dealt with a lot of these stuff, because I know well so often like we, we learn it when we finally get like like I just got through over plantar fasciitis from playing basketball and man, now I'm like the guru of like how to stretch and roll, and I mean, but I never even like, I just didn't consider all those things. I just, you know, take it for granted. You're like, ah, it was fine.
Speaker 3:I mean people take it. When you're healthy, you take everything for granted, right, and you're young that's why I said you're young, that too and I've been fortunate to have a lot of good physical therapists around in my corner over the years, and I secretly enjoy not only of getting injured but I secretly enjoy when small things do present itself, because it's an opportunity for me to learn. It's an opportunity for me to kind of recalibrate my system and see, yeah, where are there weaknesses in my body that are causing these things to flare up? Yeah, where are there weaknesses in my body that are causing these things to flare up? And I think a lot of people. When they get through injuries, especially in the running space, especially if you're a creator and you feel like, oh my God, like your life, your business, depends on you running, I think it gets super easy to get discouraged when you get hurt, and I always flip that on its head where it's like, yeah, when I get hurt, does it suck? Of course, but I also see it as an opportunity to storytell and to um, to convey to my audience like, hey, like this stuff happens, like, like I'm not superman, even though some people think that I am, like I deal with a lot of these similar injuries and um over the course of four or five years. I've now built some tissue tolerance and some resiliency to it, but I still have stuff when that pops up, because if you're training for anything that's challenging, like your body should react in some form or fashion right, whether it's a positive or a negative thing. But back to your original question, like the foam rolling myofascial strength training from like the lower calf and the foot and upper calf region.
Speaker 3:And I think the last piece would be including plyometrics in your training as a runner. Even if it's as simple as doing pogo hops, both feet on the ground, single footed, and that's something that I found, that I've tried to keep my elasticity and my soleus and my calf at a very high rate just because I found that through football I kept it and now I don't want to lose it. And if you think about running, running is basically doing plyometrics. For X amount of time You're leaving one foot to go to the other, right. And if you think about running like running is basically doing plyometrics for x amount of time, right, like you're, you're leaving one foot to go to the other. And if you can't do that in a controlled environment in a gym and doing the plyometrics right. It's going to be hard to to cover the distance of a 10k or 5k and then if you go further, it's just asking your body to do so much more. So I would say plyometrics would be like that. Last, piece.
Speaker 2:That's great, and you know, one of the things they talk about, like as you get older, is you lose strength and muscle mass, but what actually you lose, faster than all that is your, is your ability to create power and explosive like uh, response time and by that and that all relates to plyometrics and just explosive movements. And so you know, people like after 35, like certain percent of the population, will never sprint again.
Speaker 3:Yeah or jump.
Speaker 2:Or jump, yeah, but it's like the more you can keep that you know whether you're a runner or not. Just like keeping some sort of like plyometric training you know can help out.
Speaker 1:That's good stuff. I wish I would have known that many, many years ago. I think more than likely from from all the stuff you're describing, I think the big thing that kind of pops into my head is is there a point where you're just sick of running? It's like, are you kind of like crap? I created a whole career off of running. You know like, is there any sense of dread or discouragement, or is there I can't burn out, or on this or on that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean this is a common thing. People ask is like cause, like you know? I mean, from the outside, people are like Matt, like running is your job and in the moment, yeah, like there's definitely major opportunities for my business around that sport, but like I still don't think that I get paid as a runner, like I get paid to be a creator first. So I've always said, like I'm a media company first and then I run. I'm a media company. Back in the day and I was a personal trainer, I saw myself as someone that understood how to produce content and how to communicate that to an audience. So, to your point, if I stopped wanting to run because I dreaded that much which I currently do not I would have some interest in something else, whether that's juggling, cooking, real estate, whatever it is and I would still create content around those injuries. So in the current state, the reason I love running so much is that I feel like it still is an opportunity for me to be a student.
Speaker 3:I think, no matter how many marathons I've done, every single one of them I learned something else. I learned something new about who I am, about how to overcome the mental doubt and the insecurities and the uncertainty of finishing a race. And I think for me, that's why it's so easy to get obsessed with running, because no matter how good you get, there's always an opportunity to improve. There's always something that you can take away from it, and I think that's very true with actually many hobbies right. And I think for me, it's like the goal post just changes, whether it's just me wanting to finish a race, whether it's me setting a very challenging goal of saying like can I, can my body handle this extreme pace, or furthering the distance, or whatever it is. And there's so many ways still for me where I feel like I'm still just scratching the surface of what I can do as an athlete, as a runner, um, and then also, like I enjoy the opportunity to storytell it from a content perspective in different ways. Yeah, like I do feel like I'm one of the top running creators in this space. I feel like I've paved the way for a lot of people to either replicate my content or, you know, use that as an inspiration for them to start their journey.
Speaker 3:And I think for me, when I look through my page of content, I like created so many nuances within this one genre where it's like. I've shown how you can hit us up three. I've done ultra distances. I've I've drank beers at the boston marathon. I've shown what you can eat during these races. I've shown the recovery like, all the things like the, the strength training components, like and I still feel like I'm always learning different ways to communicate it and in that sense, even though I feel like I'm one of the top guys and whether that's true or not, in my own mind that's what I feel I still feel like there's more for me to learn and in that sense, I guess that's what keeps me from being burnt out or feeling like I don't, like yeah, what gets me up every single day to wake up and just keep doing it is the fact that I don't know.
Speaker 3:I feel like there's ounces of me that I want to always be a student of life, and running allows me to continue to chase that itch, because for a long time when I was in school, I was a poor student. I cheered on everything and I speak on that a lot and people think it's like I don't think that it's funny or it's nothing that I'm proud about. It's just that I think for a lot of students like when you're not interested or stimulated in what you're learning. It's very easy to get bored, it's very easy not to apply yourself and I think in this season of life I've kind of missed out on that boat from my early years and I'm trying to make up almost for time lost.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I mean, I think one of the things that I pick up from this is you're kind of drowning on a lot of the noise around you. It's like this is what I'm working on, this is what I'm focused on. How do you deal with the hate, like negative comments, or you know, I was. You just did the amazing documentary for Leadville 100 on your YouTube and I read through the comments, because that's me and I'm like damn son. Man, there's some people that just hate you Like. How do you deal with that?
Speaker 3:How do you deal with that? How do you process that? I mean, I think I deal with it one by being comfortable in my own skin. I think it starts with having a high level of self-awareness and confidence that, like you're just, I'm not, I didn't make content or I'm not in this world to please everybody. And I think the more content I put out there and as my following started to grow, I started realizing that it's hard to please everyone in this world.
Speaker 3:And the moment you realize that you can't please everyone, no matter who you are, no matter how good of a person you are, no matter how much success you have, no matter how much you give back to charity, no matter what you do, someone's always going to say I don't believe it, he's full of shit. Oh, he's just doing that, just to check the box. There's always going to be some opinion of someone else. But I think for me, I realized that that opinion is not what I feel about myself. So when I see myself in the mirror every single day, when I wake up, I'm confident that what I'm doing is with the right intent, that who I am is actually who I am when I present myself online or in real life and that people are going to have everything to say, and I think that's just like, internally, how I deal with that.
Speaker 3:I do also like I also don't let the admiration get to my head either. Like I go to a marathon and people are, they call me, they give me the goat emoji, they give me so much love and admiration. I also don't think that that makes me any better of a human. So I think it's having a balance of not needing the admiration or not hearing the hate, because I think it's so easy when someone starts to grow following that, like you, people start giving you love and you let that you almost get high off your own supply of like oh, I'm that guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like I don't think I'm shit. Yeah, like I think I'm doing something in the world, but like I don't think that because I have a following or because people want to take pictures of me, that I'm better or worse than anybody. So I think for me it's just keeping that even keel. And I think you know there's different entrepreneurs. I looked up to that. I felt like I wanted to emulate their mindset around what success and failure looks like and what criticism and admiration looks like and how to deal with it and I think definitely stoicism has helped as well and I think, to answer your actual question, I think it's just having enough confidence of knowing who you are and not allowing the opinions of other people to dictate that.
Speaker 1:Does that make it great? Great. Thank you for that insight, because that hits me pretty hard too thinking about all the things that are necessary for you to not only build something and create something, but also put yourself as the forefront of that. You know you're putting yourself out there. I think that's what stops a lot of people from doing it. I know it stops me from creating a lot of content, because I'm like, ah, you know, I know the person that makes the comment and I know who they are and it hurts my feelings and you know all the things, all the excuses as to not and it's really cool to hear just you. It's not that you don't hear the voices, you just allow them to kind of wash over you and it's like, hey, I'm focused on what I'm meant to do, your goals.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things, too, that you've said it several times is like you're, like you see yourself as a media company, like you're, you're you're not saying I'm putting myself out there for people to judge. You're saying I am a media company, I'm putting out content to create, to further a brand. So even in just the way you describe what you're doing, your value is you've actually put your value here, you as Matt Choi, and then your business out online is almost like, maybe subconsciously, just slightly separate from who you are right, which I think allow. I mean, it's just, it's a way that you just phrase it kind of naturally. I think that actually you know, instead of like I'm going to put myself out there and see what, what happens, and it's, it's almost like looking for value, looking for validation. This is like I am a media company, I, I am doing this, I'm creating content. I am, you know, like growing this.
Speaker 3:There's admiration and hate everywhere in between, right, whether it's the host, whether it's the, with the topics that they cover, and similar to like even my content, like I feel like I have instagram, tiktok, um, youtube, like that would. You can compare that to cnn, fox and mbc, yeah, or cmbc whatever one wants to use or watch um on every single outlet. There's different channels, there's different shows, there's different hosts and I think even in my content I try to emulate that in that sense too, where it's like, yeah, I'm going to show you what I eat in a day and I'm going to do a mile challenge and I'm going to show you me running and then I'm going to show you the highlights of like cheering people on and like there's so many like nuances within the the framework of what the content's being pushed out under the media company, and I think it does help create a layer of like disconnect from myself as, like the personal brand now, granted, it is ran through my, my personal brand and like who I am and like that's a major component of it. But, to your point, it's like it's, you know, like the platforms are just a machine, yeah, right, and you put stuff out there and then the algorithm has to decide, like, how worthy of this is to be seen by other eyes. And for me, it's like I get very unattached to the metrics and the vanity stuff when it comes to followers and views, just because I need it for the long haul of like, what does this look like down the line, right, right?
Speaker 3:I think to what Mitch said earlier, like I'd be lying if, like, just because I don't let the opinions of people get to me, it doesn't mean that I enjoy to see. Yeah, right, it doesn't. Yeah, I don't think it's any. As humans we all have. We all have feelings. I have emotions too, like as much as people are. Like, no, you're so positive all the time. I'm like, yeah, like, that is who I am, but like I think anyone would be lying if they said who would want to be hated, who wakes up in the morning and says, yeah, I'm going to do content today so I can get a negative feedback. I don't say that either, even as positive as I am. So I think for me, I've just learned to understand that it's just part of the game and not to take it too seriously.
Speaker 3:Because, to your point, yeah, I've had people come up to me in real life, online. Most times it is always online. I just don't have the balls to actually say it, but when people do, it's like I actually feel empathy for them, I feel compassion. I'm like the fact that you are this hurt you don't even know who I am you feel this type of way. You feel this strongly about something I've posted or the persona I perceive online that you feel the need to come up to me and explain yourself or to make make yourself feel heard. I'm like I feel bad for that person. I want to help them. Yeah, and most times you can't, because they already made their. They already made their choice right. But to your to that point, it's like no one wants to be hated. It's just not allowing that stuff to dictate who you actually are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know so has the the? Because I've seen it. The year we worked with Nate, the year before in Leadville. This year in Leadville, you were recognized. When you know, two years ago, when we did Leadville 2023. Last year, yeah, last year, you were recognized, People recognized hey, Matt, I love your content.
Speaker 1:I saw it, I was asking about it. This year was almost like on steroids. Where it was, everybody would stop, Everybody would say hey, everybody would want a picture. Um, with that type of popularity, do you see? Does your circle like of trust people around you? Have you had you had, has it had to get smaller, of the people you trust, the people you bring in with you, or are you just kind of come on, come all. I keep everybody the same way? Are you lost friendships? Or, like I'm thinking interpersonally, like has it affected any relationships in a negative or positive way where you're like I can't be around those people anymore because it's a different, I'm in a different space and they, whatever. You know it comes across as I hope I'm explaining the question right, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think it's natural with anyone that grows out of a different season of life to like gain and lose friendships. I think my circle of trust it's not necessarily about, like, the length of time, it's more through action, it's more through loyalty, and I think that can be taught. It could be Not taught, that could be gained and learned in a short amount of time or for a long amount of time. I would say someone like Nate Boyer is somewhere in that circle, but I don't know Nate for a long period of time. I don't know Nate for extended years or have had numerous conversations where I feel like, oh, nate's my best friend. I wouldn't say Nate's my best friend, but I would say Nate's one of those guys that I would call if I needed something, if I needed to be able to execute a race, if I needed to do something specifically around how me and Nate built our relationship. And, granted, I have friends from my high school that I'm not maybe as close with because I just am not in contact with them as much, or our interests have changed because we're just in different seasons of life. It's not that I have like lost love for them or they're not in my inner circle, it's just that I'm not going to ask my buddy, jared, who's like one of my best friends from high school, to come and pace me, for, yeah, he just had a kid. Like we're just in different seasons of life, so I think it's just a matter of the context of the situation. Um, now, granted, like, yeah. Obviously, when I'm first meeting people, there's always moments of like, yeah, like, oh, like. Of course, a lot of people would want to enter my circle, to, to have them in. I need to build some level of trust and there needs to be some form of action that I'm like, oh, yeah, this person, I feel like they can take on that role, or I feel like I trust them to do X, y and Z, and I think someone like Griffin's a great example. I haven't known Griffin for a long time, but he's the type of person that's like a yes guy. He's willing to do the dirty work, he's willing to do things that most people that I have known for years wouldn't want to do.
Speaker 3:And I think, when you start to play around in this space, sometimes like some of the closest people I've gotten to know now I've gotten to know through running, and I always say that like it's hard for me to judge a friendship based on how many miles I have with them, but I'd be lying if there's not a closer connection with people that I've shared a lot of miles with. I shared 38 miles with Nate Boyer. Most people that know Nate for years would probably never have been able to say that, and I knew him for two times before that. Yeah, dude, it's crazy. Yeah, so there's moments like that where, when you see people in these adverse and resilient moments, you almost learn the best and worst of who people are.
Speaker 3:And I feel like, because running in ultra marathons and these crazy long distance races they require people to get out of their comfort zone and you start to see how people respond to that stuff. So I think for me to answer your question, like, yeah, like have certain relationship change, have some certain friendships come and go, for sure, and it's not like love loss, it's just that we're just in different seasons and there's nothing wrong with that. And I don't think it's like it's no hard feelings, it's just obviously there's. It's just contextual, like there's certain things that certain people could add value in and certain people can, and you know, like that's just that's how the cookie crumbles.
Speaker 1:Is there any moment of being like people coming into your circle, trying to come into your circle, that you know they're just trying to use your influence, they're just trying to gain? Is there anybody? Does that happen a lot, or what is that I mean?
Speaker 3:I'm sure it does. But, like you know, for me, I think I'm very protective as well of like, understanding, like there's this word in korean called nunchi, which just means like. It basically means to have like, means to have like a, two cents of foresight and feeling energy from someone. And I'm trying to, almost, like you know just all body language and just feeling someone's energy and like what their intent truly is. And I think, for me I'm, you know, that radar in my mind and heart and soul is very strong. Radar in my mind and heart and soul is very strong. And I can just feel when someone's like they're either desperate or they are trying to kind of leverage what I've already built, and when that happens, I'm understanding of it, I just try to keep my distance and I try not to be rude about it.
Speaker 3:It's just like, yeah, I'm not going to open up my doors or open up my circles to just welcome anyone, but I think when people show up as who's they, who they are and they they are trying to, you know, add value in a certain situation, like I'm more than well willing to help and I'm very open to it. Um, so I think that's yeah, I, it's happened, yeah, um, and I don't think that it's bad or good. I just think it's how humans operate, right, in the sense that, yeah, like it obviously for someone if they feel like they can bring value. Maybe some people just don't know how to sell it or pitch themselves. So then it comes across as like, oh, I'm just going to use that, that's going to be my ticket to go to X, y and Z, and you know, I think it is kind of how business works.
Speaker 3:In a sense, too, it's not the smartest way to go about doing business, because if it's not authentic, if it's not organic, then it's gonna feel it's gonna there's gonna be friction. So for me, like when I feel those moments of friction, if there's even a level of doubt, I just know that it's probably not the right fit. Yeah, that could be with friends. Yeah, it could be with brands, it could be with dollars, right, all those things. And it's just, it's gotta feel right in my heart from any situation for for me to be like yo, let's do that you know.
Speaker 2:But it's probably come from, on their standpoint, probably coming from a place where they don't feel like they're bringing enough value to you, and but they're just, they want to get something from back, from you know they're, they're trying to get you to give them something that they're not really bringing anything to the table in return, correct, and I think. But that's their issue too, you don't? You know it doesn't have to stress you out which is, yeah, and I mean it rarely does.
Speaker 3:Like it's funny, like I'm such a calm person, like people see me out because when I'm out at marathons, like I always say, like the marathons, like the super bowl for me, and like I like people ask like man, like do you get bombarded?
Speaker 3:Like on day-to-day life, I'm like really no. Like especially in austin, like I'm super chill, I'm super introverted, like I don't really like most of I don't leave my house, um, but like, obviously, at marathons like chicago, like new york, these races like it's almost like being an a-list actor in hollywood. When I go to a race, like like yeah, it's hard to like make it through the expo without stopping hundreds of times, right, and in those heightened moments where most of my audience is right at new york, chicago, most of my audience is there. Yeah, people don't absolutely either follow me or you can just seen a video. Yeah, like they're gonna be at that race because it's a world major. And when I'm at those moments, like it's just heightened and like the noise and the stimulation is at a much grander scale. But day to day, like I'm not like living like justin bieber where I can't step out the house. I can step out the house and be a normal dude yeah, I'm a normal.
Speaker 2:I've actually seen you run like seven in the morning going downtown to to train people, and I'll see you like on congress, like sitting there waiting for the light to turn. Yeah, yeah, you're just by yourself, shirt off. Just you know your phone's in, just just you know just getting your run, because it's 100 degrees that day and you gotta, you know you're there at 7 am or whatever, to you know beat the heat or whatever, but like no one's you're not. You don't have a herd of people chasing after you, not at all.
Speaker 3:Just do your thing and like and I love that about austin too, because it's like you know to your point, yeah, like you got one, you have to get up, like I, I just don't want to run in the peak daylight, um, and yeah, it's just like. Yeah, you get it, you get done in the morning and yeah, some people may honk and just say what's up, but like it's super chill, it's like low-key, yeah, my time to just be alone, you know. Yeah, um, and then it prepares me for the moments when I'm at the majors all right, so you're about to turn 30.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, and that's a big milestone. You know, you've just gone through the you know kind of the big decade and lived it up. What are you thinking about?
Speaker 3:What's your you know what's kind of on the horizon for you, maybe not something specific, but just kind of things that you're processing as you're looking to your 30s yeah, I mean, I think you know I feel like I've learned a ton over the past couple years and just like, like you know myself personally and like, whether it's business or finance or, um, understanding like how to plan for the long term, because truly, like even how I think about you know my business everything I do is always like what's the 10, 20, 30, what does it look like down the line? I think you know it's no different than an investment strategy or how to treat your 100 mile race. It's so easy to get high off like oh, you hit a check mark, you hit mile five, mile 10, or you hit 100,000 followers. I think for me, now I've been in the game long enough to understand like, all right, what got me to this point, to now take it to the next level. Like it's probably going to look a little bit different and my strategies are going to look a little bit different. Like I'm not going to be able to do what worked in year one in year six.
Speaker 3:So I'm looking a lot at like yeah, like how do I live different systems? Or you know how do I come up with different, you know, maybe products that are outside of just Matt Choi as the brand, because ultimately, like yeah, like you know, in a couple of years, if I have a family or if I have kids, start like soon, like and I'm a bachelor still but like if my life can change pivotally next three to five, and to then not feel like I'm obligated to make content every single day, like how do I create a business or an infrastructure where I'm not going to need to do that? So those are some stuff that are on my mind and I think media is going a lot of places now and I think, with the advancement of AI and technology, there's going to be a lot of opportunities and moments to leverage how much tech is going to be a major component of furthering content creators, but also this media landscape. So I think, to answer your question, I think it's a mix of yeah, like what does an actual business look like that I want to start and or be a part of? And that could also mean having pieces of companies versus a whole pie of something, and I think that's even how I've structured some of my deals now. It's like, how do I play for the long-term?
Speaker 3:It's like, yeah, like how do I get equity of some of these businesses that I really believe in for the potential that they might sell in the next five or 10 years and then set me up even longer term. So you know, obviously people are like, matt, how do you make money? I'm like, well, I work with brands, I do brand partnerships, but then there's certain brands I really believe in, that I'm convicted, I'm like might be something and, granted, they might be right, but the chance of it could it couldn't really be a beneficial play down the line right, instead of looking for just the like partnership paycheck or yeah you know.
Speaker 2:Hey, give me a promo code. I'll put it out like let's. Like, let's think differently how I believe in what you're doing. Let's go, let's go in and help me, help you grow there, I mean that's actually like something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because like long-term rise, right, like you want pieces of companies, right, no different than real estate, right? So you want to own buildings, you want to own homes? Yeah, and I think for me, right now, because I built leverage and distribution and content and understanding how to market, like, yeah, how do I attach my face to a brand that needs help on that end? Because that's the expertise that I built. I haven't built the expertise when it comes to operations, when it comes to manufacturing, when it comes to stuff that, like doesn't excite me.
Speaker 3:So I think now I'm sitting in a spot where I can better leverage and negotiate different terms on a deal where maybe two years ago I couldn't. I would just have to ask for a retainer, I would have to ask for cash on a deal, and I think that's something where, even as a creator, you have to start planning out, like, what does it look like if you want to stop creating? And I think for me it's like I almost see it as like, almost like a small venture firm, right, where it's like, yeah, you're betting on these operators, you're betting on a product that really can maybe take off, and you know the fact that I can somewhat control the fact that I could slap my face on it and be like, hey, this is a product. I believe it, and I think that's been something that I've been thinking about a lot of, and the more private equity and VC friends that I have.
Speaker 3:When I have conversations like this with them, I put my learning cap on so much because I'm like maybe you just think I'm just a creator and I've never had a manager. I've negotiated all my deals and it's been really exciting for me to also learn from how they're able to what they look at in a certain deal or what they look at from a startup company and seeing like, yeah, does this company have legs? Would a Nike buy them? Would a tech company buy them? And all those conversations where a couple of years ago, I'd be like it'd go over my head.
Speaker 3:All of these guys, yeah, but that's. Those are some stuff I've been thinking about.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I love that. So what's the next big event, next big challenge that you have coming up?
Speaker 3:I'm going to be in New York City for the marathon. I think High Rocks is something I'm really been excited about. I think that's been a fun event. Slash like workout and run that I don't know it's high rocks excites me because I feel like my body frame and my running base translates really well into that sport. Yeah, um, that's going to be in chicago in november, but I think in the fall, in the springtime.
Speaker 3:I mean, my next big goal is like I really want to go out and rip a fast marathon time. You know, like I think right now I have a 257 pb, which is pretty solid, but I haven't really tried to go out and rip a fast marathon time. You know, like I think right now I have a 257 pb, which is pretty solid, but I haven't really tried to beat that time in the past two years and I think I've now, like I have the confidence I can like shave that down significantly. What are you looking like? I want to go like 245, like I want to shave that by like 10, 12 minutes and I feel like I'm like I can do that, like I have the capacity to do that. It's just going to take a level of focus and training and no different than people were shocked at like my Leadville time. And to me I wasn't surprised, just because I understood like the work that I put in and also like just the grittiness that I have when it comes to being in the pain cave, like it's funny, like my buddy.
Speaker 3:I have a good buddy, his name's Jonah. He's like a mad scientist almost, but he looks at all the science and the data behind running and volume and training load and he's the analytics, he's analytics guy and I remember there was a conversation he's gonna love this because, um, he really drove me a lot. I'm not gonna lie, like when I was training for leadville I was in new york one weekend and you know I was kind of telling him how I was training, like my approach to leadville training and all that stuff, and he didn't tell me in person but he told a mutual friend of ours. He was like I don't think matt's taking leadville like that seriously. He was like I don't think matt's gonna finish. And then ty, my buddy, tyler, told me that and I said fuck, jonah, I don't mean to curse and I said, said F science.
Speaker 3:I said sometimes you can't measure how much of a dog or how much grit someone actually has, because in the moments of suffering you can peel yourself out of it, you can push through, and there's different things that you can't ever predict based on a data point.
Speaker 3:And it's funny because at mile 99 of Leadville, and we were coming up at 24 hours and 45 minutes, and I said F Jonah, I said F science, I said that's not everything, because you can't measure someone's heart or their will. And I think for me, like you know, that's always been something I've always put my hat on because yeah, like even for marathon chain, like you know, it's so tactical, right, it's very technical, you can almost predict your time based on how training's going. Sure, but I actually disagree with that because I always tell people I mean you, you never know what happens on that given day. Yeah, you know it could be the perfect weather, that's good, you could just have that. You know you ate the right thing, you just felt right. Like you never can predict how much like the emotional side of this sport and this activity can take you right, and I think that's just something I always think and and fucking adrenaline.
Speaker 2:I agree. You've got hundreds of thousands of people cheering you on and you can't replicate that. You cannot. You can't train that way.
Speaker 3:100 right, and it's just crazy, it's crazy and I think you know I always it's funny because jonah, like he, he, he wanted like a crazy pr at chicago. He ran in chicago, yeah, and he wanted like 245 but he ended up getting like 258 because he blew up and yeah, it's funny, he even told my buddy tyler he's like, yeah, I have to go back to the drawing board and see, like, what happened.
Speaker 2:But like sometimes when you overanalyze and think that everything's gonna go perfect based on how you thought of it in training, it's kind of like I think about, like rocky, yeah, or david, I mean david gog, I mean like I have a 10 year old and I and I'll show him like little goggins clips, because I just think, because Goggins is the anti-science, like he is, like he is exactly what you're talking about, he's all heart, all guts, just spitting vinegar, just like, like I'm like, and and then you know, so there's that side too, that that a lot of us need more of right, and and I just love that because, dude, it's funny you say that I appreciate you say that because I actually Goggins was one of the first softwares that I downloaded and I always say, I always speak about software as, like you know, we're programmed, like all of us are programs in a sense, and the things that we consume, the knowledge that we go seek like that becomes part of who we are.
Speaker 3:And, like David, goggins was one of the first people I started to consume when I got into this space. And, to your exact point, I feel like I've consumed so much of him that I've ingrained that framework of like, no fuck, what people have to say, you can't question my level of sacrifice and will and grittiness to get through this pain, because that's something you can't measure. And, to that exact point, I think that's why he's transformed some people's lives because, yeah, even if you take one percent of what Goggins has to say, yeah, what that can do for someone's life is exponential, absolutely. And I think, to that exact point, yeah, you, how do you measure that?
Speaker 2:what it reframes pain, 100%, it's so evil, like you know, they avoid pain. But even in a run, I mean, you see, with kids, like you know, oh it's, I'm, my legs are burning like it's, like they're immediately they're assuming that the pain that they're feeling, or anybody's feeling, is somehow negative. And and if you frame it like, oh, this is the, this is, this is not, you know, I'm not even close right, but yeah, this is where it starts like, just that is such a, you know, that is the difference between just kind of the layman runner and somebody who's like going for, you know, to find out what their true potential is. Correct.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think most of us aren't even touching what we could potentially do, you know. So I love the challenge. I love your story. It's been awesome getting to know you over the last couple of years. It was awesome to see you just struggle through Leadville. But in reality I've never seen someone so happy when you were coming down. Everybody was like so, but you pumped us up when we were truing for you and there was never a doubt in our minds.
Speaker 1:I was like Matt's got this. The moment you stepped on that line I was like he's got this and I'm really proud of you. I'm proud of what you built. I think you got huge of you. I'm proud of what you built. I think you got huge. I mean, the future is big. It's even bigger than what you can imagine and I'm thankful that I've had a small piece of being able to see it in action so that when you're you know, when you're huge, when you're much, much bigger, you're going to be able I can be able to say you know, I was with that, I'm the reason, I'm the reason that guy's huge so well. I appreciate you, matt, taking the time to come out and be a part of dad bods and dumbbells, even though you are not a dad bod or a dummy, so I appreciate you being a part of it. Good luck to you at Hydrox. Is that Hydrox, hydrox, hydrox? This has been dad bods and dumbbells. Thanks for listening.