BONUS Episode: Never Stop Training! 52 year old former Natural Mr. Olympia Phillip Ricardo Jr talks Strength after 50.

We sit down with four-time Natural Mr. Olympia Philip Ricardo Jr. to explore how planning, smart training, and faith create strength that lasts. The focus moves from ego lifts to longevity, with clear tactics for men in midlife to train hard, recover well, and stay consistent.

• daily planning routines that protect training time
• evening workouts for stress relief and consistency
• smarter splits with GVT, fives, supersets, and drop sets
• form, tempo, and mind–muscle connection over load
• active deloads and responsive programming
• incline pressing and machine choices to spare joints
• warm-ups, foam rolling, belts, and chiropractic care
• sleep realities and scaling intensity when tired
• faith shaping purpose, humility, and service
• natural bodybuilding’s health-first path and community
• goal setting by paying and picking a date
• coaching principles for sustainable lifestyle change

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Transcript

Host Intro & Guest Reveal

SPEAKER_02 0:03

You are listening to the Mindset Forge podcast. I'm Barton Bryan, your host. It's season five, and today I have an awesome interview with a four-time natural Mr. Olympia bodybuilder. He has been a lifetime natural bodybuilder, somebody who's worked in the State Department. He's also a Marine and just like he's very focused on living his best, healthiest life and helping other people do so. His name is Philip Ricardo Jr. And if you've seen a documentary about natural bodybuilding called uh Generation Iron 4, the Natty Life, he is the one that wins the Mr. Olympia in that uh documentary. If you haven't seen it, it's actually fantastic. It'll teach you all about the sport of natural bodybuilding versus kind of traditional bodybuilding that you might know, like Arnold and those guys that's traditional bodybuilding where they could take steroids and stuff like that. So uh this is gonna be an awesome interview, but a couple things I want to talk about before we get into the interview.

Sponsor: Iron Neck Overview

SPEAKER_02 0:58

First of all, my sponsor, Iron Neck, see it on my shirt here. I love the shirt. Ironneck is right here in Austin, Texas, but they've really figured out what I consider the only true way to help rehabilitate and strengthen the neck in a dynamic way that really challenges and makes the neck do things that like it naturally needs to be able to do. First of all, stabilize, move in various ranges of motion with various uh resistance on it. The thing that I love about it is because of the way it works, you kind of wear it as a crown on your head, and you can turn left, turn right, you can tuck your head back, you can you can face backwards on the resistance and work on pushing your head forward. There's so many core movements you can use in turning the body and the neck with the body. It just develops all those little intricate muscles, the scalings, the sternocleidomastroid, all the upper neck stabilizers just develop such a great way for you to dynamically strengthen and support your neck. Whether you've had an injury in the past, have a stiff neck, or you're an athlete and you want to strengthen your neck for things like jujitsu, bodybuilding, or whatever. So awesome device. I use it all the time, highly recommend it. And of course, they have a 30-day money-back guarantee. You go online, you buy one, use my link in the show notes to get yourself 15% off. Uh but when you do, you have 30 days to try it out. And if you don't use it or it doesn't work for you, you can send it back, get your money back. Best device on the market for strengthening your neck. So check it out.

What This Conversation Will Cover

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Okay, uh, so today when I talk to Philip in this interview, so Philip uh graciously gave me about an hour and 15 minutes of his time. So this is a really in-depth interview, not so much into bodybuilding, although we talk a little bit about the sport of bodybuilding, specifically natural bodybuilding, but really we go into kind of he's 52 or about to be at the time I interviewed him. Uh just how he does things, how he thinks about working out, preparing for the day, just mindset around how do you really set up your day for success, knowing when he needs to work out, bringing his meals, things like that, and just to hear from somebody who's been doing it his whole life and really mastered the art of really being a healthy, strong athlete. You know, and but he's 52, so he's got those, you know, the thing injuries that a lot of us, you know, develop from working out, or just you know, life in general kind of comes around. We got those little injuries. So he talks a lot about quality of exercise versus quantity of weight. We we dig into recovery, we dig into a lot of things that I think will resonate with you guys as you're trying to get in better shape, working out, maybe doing some strength training, maybe wanting to figure out how do I get better at it, what are some ideas. He talks about German strength training, you know, six sets of ten reps, what that is. So we just go into a lot of different things. It was so much fun for me to interview him, obviously, as a trainer, but also as an aspiring bodybuilder. I just had a lot of questions on kind of his philosophy, what he does, how he makes it work. And I hope it resonates. I hope you guys get a lot out of this too. I think you will. I did. And so, without further ado, my friend Philip Ricardo

Philip’s Daily Structure & Planning

SPEAKER_02 4:02

Jr. Philip, thanks for being here. Uh let me know, real quick, just uh at this point, like talk about how you think about your day. Because, you know, I think so much if you can conquer your day, you can conquer your life. And and I think as you get older, you have to really be more purposeful and more focused on like how how do you make sure your day is is uh set up well for success.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Well, well, I can say that as a type A type person, I really have to do some prior planning. You know, I'm sure everyone's heard of like the five P's, you know, the prior planning prevents you know, poor performance. And the night before, I'm actually thinking about what am I gonna do the next day. And of course, the big part is always when's my workout gonna be, right? But um but in the morning, you know, I wake up a certain time, making sure I walk my dogs, get breakfast done, um, make sure that whatever I have at my job, because I work you know as a contractor for the government, that if I have something that's you know due or something, I have to make sure that my mind is right to make sure I accomplish all the things that I, you know, all my tasks for the most part. Um, you know, if my wife has anything going on or you know, kids or whatever, I've got to make sure that I schedule enough time in the day to get my hours in that work, come home, take care of that, and like I said, of course, get my gym sessioning because that's my stress relief. And um, yeah, I think everything that I do is always planning. And and unfortunately, with that, if something throws it off, it throws me off. You know, so I like to be just like kind of a robot and have everything lined up perfectly so that I can accomplish every task that I had in my head. And so that's being purposeful, but also it can throw me off sometimes too. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Over like I I'm very much a scheduled type person. I like to my calendar is like color-coded, anal retention, like my workout, two hours blocked out. So how do you so let talk about the night before? Because I'm really um, you know, it's not just about waking up and like I do these things. It's like what have your thoughts what do you think about the night before? What are some ways that you like to wake up and kind of get your day going?

Night Routines, Faith, And Focus

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Yeah, for me, uh, you know, I'm a Christian man, so I love God, I love Jesus, and he's a big part of my life. So, you know, at night, uh, I normally like to have that quiet time, you know, and kind of get into word before I go to bed. Usually I'm laying down with my wife and we're watching some Korean drama before on Netflix, but then as I wind down, you know, I do think about when I wake up in the morning what I'm gonna do. And uh that involves me getting into like I have the the U-verse Bible app. I'll listen to that, get some scriptures in me to get me in the right mindset. And that whole entire morning, I like the quiet, the peace. And when I wake up at five in the morning, and I'm able just to think about what I gotta do, you know. And without that, I think I just would be scatterbrained. I'm not I can't walk into bubblegum at the same time. I don't have those that that, you know, people that can just do multiple things at one time. So for me, I need to have that time to line everything up, it's like you said. And so when I wake up, even at night, I'm thinking about it before I go to bed, which sometimes affects my sleep. But um, you know, if I have a lot going on, I have to think about it. And I have to just make sure that I have everything lined up and scheduled. 5 a.m. do this, 6 a.m. do that, 7 a.m. do that, get on the road. You know, traffic is is a lot going on with traffic here in DC, then that might throw me off a little bit. I try to schedule phone calls while I'm driving to make sure I can, you know, multitask and do things like that. So it's a lot, but it becomes uh second nature when you kind of get more on your plate. I've gotten so much on my plate recently that I had to learn to multitask, and I think that's the way I get it done.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah, I've always, you know, the expression like you want to get something done, give it to somebody who's busy. Yeah, you know, like people that are busy know where to how to fit in those little moments to schedule this or make that phone call. And like, you know, somebody who just kind of lays around, doesn't do much, they got a lot of time, but they don't have that discipline to get things done quickly. And yeah, that's yeah, I I'm like that too, just scheduling phone calls. Like, I got a 20-minute ride, you know, to my client, I'm gonna I'm gonna get the phone call in there, or I'm gonna listen to this podcast and prep for this interview or whatever. Like, all those things are are built in. Talk about working out, because I think you know, as as men get into their 40s and 50s, it is it is absolutely, I mean, I as a train as a trainer and a fitness perspective, I'm gonna use the word dire. Dyer that you get your body in check and get your body, you know, like healthy and strong and like can and have a have a commitment to your to your health and and strength training. Uh what how do you do it? Is it I know you obviously have been training for a long time, but like are you an evening guy, or is it like what's your schedule do? Like, how do you where do you put the workouts in if you if it's up to you? Like obviously there's times when you probably have to move it around, but when it's up to you, when are you doing your workout and why?

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yeah, for me during the week, especially with work, um, I go in the evening and I actually feel a lot better in the evening because after a long day of work, you know, I actually love to go in. I even drink coffee or pre-workout

Training Timing, Frequency, And Purpose

SPEAKER_00 9:06

or whatever before I get into the gym and I just crush it, and then it it really relieves the stress so when I get home to the family, I'm a much better man, you know. And uh I I go around six, seven o'clock at night, get my hour, hour and a half in. And it's a lot different now that I'm not competing. When I competed, I would do a two a day where I'd wake up, do fasted cardio, um, you know, and of course hardcore nutrition, and then still work out the second workout at night. But for now, just the night workout is really good enough for me. I work out six, sometimes even seven days a week because I just love the feeling. And I know that that's probably counterintuitive to a lot of people, especially when you get older, that you know, you want to heal and everything, but I go there now just for you know for health and longevity and not just to go in there and just push heavy poutages because I got a lot of injuries, obviously, at going on 52 years of age. And so, you know, I go in there, get a good pump, I have a good, you know, um split for you know, legs, you know, all the body parts, etc. And that's the way I get a lot of things done. Even when I do my cardio at night, I'll be on my phone texting my clients um and then scheduling things like that and catching up on emails, and then I just hit the hit the weights and I go home to the family.

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I mean it's different, it's different not being prepping, not prepping or or working out to uh you know to compete. That's a totally different animal. You know, I I I did a show a couple months ago, and I know that kind of two-a-day split and like the nutrition, and it's like you're you've got so many variables of like nutrition and water and you know, workout and fasted cardio and and all these things, and it just it takes over your life uh for at least a few months. I don't know. I told my wife, I'll take a year. She was she was more stressed out about the whole thing than I was because she was just like I was just I was not a great human being at that time. So you know, right? I do know. God bless the the the spouses of bodybuilders who put up with that, yeah. They are they are a special, special breed.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Well, let's talk about, you know, I think having you on the show, you're just about turned 52, you know, you've been working out what I mean, when did you start training?

SPEAKER_00 11:24

Um I mean, I when I went to high school, I I got serious into training. So I went to high school in Chicago, uh actually a suburb, Downers Grove. And I went to Downers Grove South High School, and uh the football team that I was on had an amazing weight training program. And so uh shout out to Tim Nash. I know he's probably not around, but he was a great coach, and uh the training there just really set me up for the compound movement, squats, bench press, deadlifts. Um, and I fell in love with it. And I was a skinny dude, I was like 5'9, like 135 pounds, but my squat was always really good, which is probably the foundation for my legs. Um my bench was weak, deadlift was decent, and um it it set me up, obviously, to be successful in high school for football. Um, but when I joined the military, I just continued on, and I

Starting Young: Foundations And Injuries

SPEAKER_00 12:15

think when I got overseas, the first thing I wanted to do is work out. It's like you work, you work out, weekend, you party, and that was my lifestyle. And I ran into a bunch of guys that were really, you know, older, you know, senior, seasoned um trainers or workout guys and stuff, and they taught me a lot, and I just continued on. That's when I did my first show like back in 1992. But I've been working out probably since I'd say 1984.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

So, I mean, going on doing the math 40 years, right? I mean, almost, right? Like 40 years, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I was like literally counting down the days till Davis Athletic Club would let me train. Yeah, you had to be 13 to go into the free weight room. And they like, I was like, I would try to go in and they'd kick me out. I was like, you're too young, kid. But I mean, that like so you know, you you and I are similar in the sense of like our whole lives we've been training, but with that comes injuries and maybe overtraining certain joint movements like bench press or things that we've now, you know, at 48 or 52, like you've got to like figure it out a little bit different. You've got to think about so talk talk not as a bodybuilder, but you as you talk about kind of like longevity, uh durability. I like that word as in as we get into you know my 50s. I'm like, I want to be really durable, I want my joints to work, I want to have mobility, I want to be strong. Like talk about how you plan, you know, four, six, seven days a week you're in there, but not two hours, so much hour, hour and a half. Like, what do you how are you thinking about your splits and and that type of thing? Give us give our listeners kind of an understanding of how you do it and what they might get from that.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah, for me, as I'm older, I don't go heavy unless I'm really feeling strong. It's important to listen to your body. Um, I think, you know, when you know how you're feeling before you get into the gym, then obviously you're gonna be able to, you know, mentally say, okay, I can jump on a squat rack and I might be able to put more plates or more weight on there than I normally could. And then you go for it, just be careful. But if you're feeling tired and you want to go in there and try to set some PRs, you know, some personal records, you're better off just being smart about it and maybe just do like a couple of drop sets or higher reps. You know, you can work around still getting a pump. And so it's really being aware of your body. I think I've been smart enough to be aware of you know how my

Longevity Mindset And Smarter Splits

SPEAKER_00 14:31

body feels before I get into the gym. So I think that's very important for anyone that's going in there to train and you know, kind of setting up their splits. Um, for me, you know, if something's sore, I'm not gonna go in and train it because I don't want to get injured. And um, I'm able to still do decently heavy weight without you know injuring myself. And it's also important for me to go to a chiropractor, you know, those therapeutic modalities and stuff to get your body adjusted when you feel off track. If you continue to work out while you're still feeling like you're off balance and things like that, or if you don't do like a foam roller or something that's gonna get all the knots and everything out of your body, um, you're you're gonna be in trouble.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

Now, when I mean it I think heavy weight is all relative. I mean, your version of heavy is different from my version of heavy. Like I think the better a question that will help people understand that is what rep ranges are you working out in that you feel like are getting you results, but not necessarily overloading or or you know, putting your body too much at risk?

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Right. I mean, I'm I'm very old school, so what I do is I'll go through different periods, you know, um, of of working out where I do a lot of German volume trainings, which is more like the 10 rep range and stick with uh one exercise for about six sets and do, you know, those six sets of ten, and I'll do that for about a month. And then I'll switch off to a point where I want to get a little bit more power and strength. So I'll keep my rep range around five, and that'll help me get back to some of the strength that I might have not really lost, but I'll be able to see how strong I am. And so that five rep range, I'll be able to lift a little bit heavier weights. And there's sometimes I'll go into the gym just feel like I want to lift heavy anyway, even during my you know, German volume training, 10 rep range, and I'll just stick with something and say, let me see if I can do you know some deadlifts and you know, five reps, how many, how much weight can I put up? Um and also when I look at some of my weaker areas, my there's some body parts that I want to really develop more, like my shoulder, you know, get them my shoulders wider, my back wider. So, you know, obviously when it comes to you know being on stage, you want to be wider, you want to have that illusion because I'm not really a big guy. But

Rep Ranges, GVT, And Variations

SPEAKER_00 16:37

if you create that illusion with your back and your shoulders, obviously you're gonna stand out and people can be like, oh, you're big, but we see you in real life, you're just like a normal guy. But I really put a lot of focus on shoulders and back, and so those body parts, if I have a chance to go, you know, heavier on so I can get that development, then I'll I'll do the five rep range. But the majority of the time I'm in that 10 rep, you know, bodybuilding style um training. But um that switches off and I'll go and do a a session where I'll do you know a lot of super session drop sets. And so every month I kind of change up my workout styles. German volume training, I do something called crazy fives, where you do five reps and then you do a 20-set drop set of different, you know, tempos and and movements, half reps, you know, going down five and coming up, you know, powering up for one, and you know, you just you just throw as many different variables to shock your body.

SPEAKER_02 17:32

Yeah. And I get and caveat here is I think you know, after training so many years and and and really developing an understanding of like what your body can and cannot do, I think that's those are the you know, you're making choices based on what you know your body's capable of in that moment. I think where people get in trouble is is where they they might, and this is what could be the young person or the or or even somebody our age who's getting back into training, you know, and kind of remembers when they could bench two two plates or squattle, and you know, and we we can excel we try to put on too much weight too quickly and not slowly, you know, add a little bit, two percent total volume, maybe five percent total over the course of you know a couple of sets. Very small progressive overlay so that we don't get injured. But uh, you know, it's really interesting. You uh you talked about you know German training. I mean we talk about 10 reps, you know, hypertrophy is kind of they've always said kind of that six to twelve, fifteen maybe. Kind of everyone's a little different. I think you can get hypertrophy from five reps too, but I think the the the key that I'm taking from that is like you know, do a month one way, develop some some kind of momentum in that in that style, and then change it up. Or how are you with uh uh with deload weeks or or things like that? What's your what's your philosophy on that?

SPEAKER_00 18:54

Yeah, the D-Load weeks is is pretty similar to when I have those month periods. So if I do a month of the German volume, I might take a week of just like really high rep and not go as intense. Like basically leaving something in the tank. So I don't totally deload where some people say deloading is like you don't go to the gym

Deloads, Recovery, And Why Feel Matters

SPEAKER_00 19:10

at all. You know, I I rarely take a day off because, like I said, it's more of a therapeutic thing for me, stress relief versus you know, um trying to go there for whatever reason, ego, I don't know what you want to call it, but I go in there because it's a part of my life and it's it's one of those things I think that keeps me healthy. Um, you know, my parents died pretty young, and I want to make sure that I can make sure I have more longevity. And if if it takes me eating healthy and and working out, not just for bodybuilding, but just for you know health reasons, I'm gonna keep on doing that because I know how it makes me feel. Of course, the byproduct is looks as well, but um it's really about the feeling for me. So the D load for me isn't really anything crazy, but just I'll go in there, do uh high reps, you know, 15 and leave something in the tank and not do as many sets so that I'm not over taxing my body so it heals.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Yeah. Yeah, what I've heard is, I mean, there are I've actually taken five days off is about all I could get through. After the show, I you know, I started got back into training, and about about the end of June, my body just felt like it was it hit a wall. Like I just didn't have anything, so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna take five days off, nothing. Swim, relax, you know, just enjoy. And I came back and it was probably what I needed. But for the most part, like when I when I deloted, it's like I pull back, a little bit lighter weights, not quite as many sets. And and just like you, because I'm like you. I I want to be in the gym. Unless there's a really good reason for it, I want to be in the gym. Right. Like, and I think that's that's a great place. Because I mean, I think for for I also think for us, you know, we're kind of gym rats, like you, you know, you were in the gym when you were, you know, 12, 13 years old. I uh I too like so it it has a more of a home base for people like us. Right, yeah, and so but somebody who doesn't have that relationship with the gym may not feel quite feel that way. And it's and so in that sense, you might you know come in three, four days a week, do your do your push-pull legs, maybe total, you know, total body split, core, things like that, and then get out and just go enjoy whatever else you like to do. You know, run outside, go on a bike ride, swim, whatever. Exactly. But for the gym rats, you know, yeah, seven days a week, baby.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

There you go. I know, right? You gotta do it. Yeah, yeah. It may not be smart from some you know scientifically, but you know, it's working for us, and that's how you do it.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

So well, and and I people always, you know, they see someone like yourself, and and if y'all go to his Instagram page, I mean he's about to turn 52. The guy is a you know specimen, you know, as a as a natural bodybuilder. And let's be very clear, you know, there's a lot of people that are at the gyms that look great, but they're on a lot of different supplements, or not even supplements, steroids, TRT, all that kind of stuff. Right. Um he you know, Philip here is a is a natural bodybuilder. He's part of the federation. Now the the there's a couple of federations that really like you know are putting out these natural bodybuilding shows, really helping the board make decisions on you know the future of natural bodybuilding, that kind of thing. So it's a very specific, you know, thing to be natural, to not take steroids, to night, to not prep for a show with diuretics and and anivar and all these things that make keep you super vascular and make you look great on Instagram.

unknown 22:34

Right.

Form, Tempo, And Mind–Muscle Connection

SPEAKER_02 22:35

I mean, you know, but to do it like in in in and you know, to do it the right way is the way I feel, because that's I'm the same way. You just you gotta just do it the right way. And so when you do that, you can't you can't ego lift, especially in your 40s and 50s, and you you have to really understand how to warm the body up and prep the body for intense exercise. You know, at your age, like what have you learned about that? What somebody who's like getting back into working out wants to like understand like the mindset of your your thought process around natural working out, hour, hour and a half. How do you warm the body up? What are the kind of steps you take to prepare yourself to to lift and get results?

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Yeah, I mean, for me, I don't judge those that are taking things. You know, I've got friends that are, you know, make that decision, that choice, right? But my choice is to be natural. My choice is, I'm doing this for health, like we've mentioned over and over again. It's about health and longevity for me. That's all it's about. I want to be around for my kids, I want to be around for my wife. I just want to live, right? I want to live and live in a way that I have the good quality of life. Um, so for me, I I take everything seriously when it comes to preparation before I get to the gym. Um, of course, eating the right meals before you get in there, make sure you're hopefully not too tired. Um warming up is key, you know, whether I do the foam roller before I uh hit the first exercise to get all the knots out of my body so I'm free of any kind of like impingements or um things that might throw me off when I'm like benching or doing shoulders or back. Um warming up is just like you said, it takes me sometimes four to five sets before I'm able to get and really do some heavy weights because I do have injuries at 52. You know, I've got my shoulders that are messed up. I go to see chiropractor for that. I have you know lower back injury, so I know that I can't do squats or or deadlifts without having a belt and really warming up multiple sets. Um, but it's the mindset of knowing that I'm I'm at this age, not using it as a crutch, but I also don't need to go in there and try to squat four plates and everything like I used to back in the day or deadlift. I can still get a really good workout and still keep my body looking, you know, youthful, you know, at this age just by being smarter, not harder, right? So um I I enjoy just doing the movements that I know aren't gonna hurt me. There's sometimes you see this machines and it's a machine for chess, but you know that for some reason you don't feel right when you do that machine. So I'm not gonna do that. You know, if you're not feeling the actual stimulation for my chest, why am I doing it? Or if I'm feeling pain in certain areas, I'll go to a machine that I normally use that I can feel like it'll work, it's working, it's not gonna injure me. So, you know, it may make things a little bit boring for some people, but for me, I'd rather stick with the machines that work for me versus trying to be like, oh, I'm bored, let me try this machine over here, or let me do this different movement. So, but um I think that's the key for me to stay, you know, consistent in always going to the gym versus I see a lot of people that I've even trained with before, they're in there for like a month, they're making crazy gains, and you're like getting stronger, and then you don't see them for three months and say, What happened? Oh, I hurt this, I got injured here, you know, and then they may not even go back to the gym forever. So I've seen, you know, the flash in the pan type athletes, if you will.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

We're gonna take a quick break from the interview with Philip to talk about coaching. If you're interested in getting a more holistic approach to how you're attacking

Discipline Beyond The Gym

SPEAKER_02 26:02

your fitness goals, let's set up a phone call. I actually do a discovery call, which you can find in the show notes. 30 minutes, let's chat about your goals, what your objectives are, some struggles you're having, and see if this might be a good fit for you to work with me personally. I really look at a holistic approach, looking at blood work, VO2 max, some strength testing, some benchmarks that we can use to figure out how to get you in the best shape possible and how to let that really expand into your life most effectively. If you're interested in something like that, jump in the show notes and let's set up a call. All right, back to the show. Well, there's a risk reward. I mean, the the idea that, like, oh, how much can I put up on my bench? Or I mean, I I I don't bench. You told me on before this, you don't bench. Like, it's something I mean, I was just literally today, this 17-year-old kid, private school kid, came up to me. I was doing leg press, and he's like, Hey, can you spot me? And he had like 185, you know, and his form was good. And you know, he pumped out seven reps and he kind of couldn't get the eighth, and I helped, you know, and we started chatting. And I was like, Hey man, I know you, you know, you're this guy, he's talking about guys at a school that already benched, you know, 315. And I'm like, dude, let me, I'm gonna tell you something. I'm 48 years old. Fall in love with incline right now. I'm like, your chests will look better. Yes, you won't, and and this is the interesting thing. If you haven't heard this, uh listeners, like there's something about the angle of the shoulder and and how it the bench press works that it's it really is more complicated for our body to stabilize the bench versus incline. Incline is much more natural in a way. It I know we we can't put up as much weight, but it's more engagement of the chest. You're gonna fill out the top of your chest, which is what looks better anyway, and you're just not gonna get injured from doing incline barbell, incline dumbbell, or and it, and and if you do bench or flat dumbbell, just pull back the weights, like do it after incline where you can really squeeze and like we were talking about, feel that mind muscle connection of the chest versus ego lifting. And the guy was like, dude, I I know, but I and he's you know, poor kid, he's 17. I'm who the hell am I, right? But I'm like, he's like, I just I I I wanna I wanna bench a lot. I'm like, dude, I get it, I get it. But I'm like, you know,

Goals, Commitment, And Taking The First Step

SPEAKER_02 28:16

and I'm just telling you, I was like, I was like, I don't bench anymore because it doesn't because it hurts. Yeah, and I was just like you at 17, and I wish somebody had stopped me in the gym. So I was like, I'll leave it there, I'll leave it there. So, but listen, coming back to the 40 to 60 year olds, like y'all listen to this. Like, um, you don't need to go back in the gym and start benching again. Like, it's not a requirement to like being strong. Nobody's gonna walk up to you anymore and say, How much you benched, bro? No one, no one cares. That's true. And if they do, they're probably stuck in high school and they need to go up.

SPEAKER_00 28:50

Good advice, yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

But point, yeah, point being here, like you know, four or five warm-up sets, like you're talking about, Philip. Uh yeah, you know, finding movements that you can feel that mind muscle connection when you're using, so not using equipment that doesn't feel right. Um, what what would you advise them? Like, I mean, obviously, there's lots of ways to to stimulate growth and and and challenge the body. Resistance, obviously, you could add more weight, that's the obvious one. But what are some other things that you've learned that really work for you to make sure you're getting the the most kind of um stimulation of the mood of the muscle and potential like kind of benefits from it?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yeah, I mean, form obviously is very important. I think I've been very lucky where I had guys that taught me like form is number one, right? So because I was able to use good form before I started trying to push heavy weight, I always was able to feel the muscles that I was working, right? And so even at this age now, if I'm not feeling it, just like I said with the machines, um, I think it's not worth doing. And so even when I'm warming up, I I sometimes I'll warm up just for the bar when it comes to, like you said, I only do incline. Like you said, that's the best advice, best thing you can do for your chest. I'll do multiple. Even I have an incline, you know, bar in my in my garage, and if I can't get to the gym, I'll just do that. I'll do like 10 sets of those and I'm done with my chest workout right. Um, but you know, I'll start off with a bar, and I'm really the tempo, I think tempo is the key. You know, coming down nice and slow, feeling it, holding it, contracting when you push up, you know, those kind of movements, feeling that my muscle connection through the entire range of motion when you're doing an exercise is so important. Because I work out a lot of guys, like you said, the young kids especially. And uh I was working out with a young kid today, um, because he goes to my church with his with his father, and you know, his form is off. He can lift almost as much weight as I can, but he's not really trying to connect that muscle when he's just trying to move the weight. And so that right there, I think, is the most important. That's the key for everything. If you're just moving the weight without trying to feel the muscle that you're working, I think you're not going to get that development. And I've seen guys who don't lift a lot of weight, but you can tell their form is so perfect and that they're really concentrated on feeling that muscle work, they're getting that development. You can make, you know,

Coaching, Lifestyle Change, And Adherence

SPEAKER_00 31:04

a hundred pounds feel like 300 pounds if you move it the right way. And I've heard many bodybuilders say that before. You know, not all bodybuilders have to be like, you know, power lifters. They live for power, so they have a different physique.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

But bodybuilder no nobody should watch Ronnie Coleman work out. I mean, he's a freak of nature, and and but like you know, Jay Cutler is it'll say like he's never tried to like, you know, you know, he's very strict on his bench, a lot of incline, a lot of like squeezing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

You'll see 15, even as big as he is, and that's his, you know, but then Ronnie Coleman's doing 600 pounds or something, is like, what the heck?

SPEAKER_02 31:41

He's like, yeah. He could compete in powerlifting or bodybuilding, like on two days, you know, two days in a row. Um yeah, and that's I think that's so important. I and I think what the other thing, and for those of you listening who have kids that are, and I'm I have a nine-year-old, I'm still I'm already taking him to the gym, like going through basic push-pull, uh, you know, squat, things like that, just basic movements with weight, uh, is you know, if you can teach them form and you can teach them to feel it. Like that that I never really I don't remember uh learning that until I think I was like 19 or 20, where like somebody like, hey, what you're not feeling it in your lats. I was doing pull downs, wasn't really I was just jack, I was just pulling weight, right, instead of like trying to contract. And it changes everything. When if you stay focused on that contraction, then you you know the right muscles are engaged and your form is probably in the right place. And that's where like bench, if you're just moving weight like that kid you're talking about who's just probably putting up as much weight as you, but there's no sensation, like then it's so often it's rotator cuff, it's it's it's weird scapular trap movements that are that are kind of forcing, and you're it's just that that's what leads to injury. It's not actually like the heavy weight, it's the fact that we're not using the chest, shoulders, and triceps properly to move that weight. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

And a good thing nowadays, you know, especially for the kids, there's a lot of stuff on YouTube, Instagram, social media. They can find the right ways to work out, you know. So I'm I see a lot of kids doing better and they have actually awesome physiques, but there are just those same ones that just, you know, they're doing it the wrong way, and then the only thing that's really getting developed is their arms. You get the big old, big old arms, but they have no back, they don't have shoulders, you know. And you know, I was the same way until I actually was able to feel the muscle and the same thing, like you said, when you know how to, you know, do certain movements for your back or your shoulders, it gets more developed.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yeah. So talk about just how, you know, I think one of the things that I'm I'm really about is is how lifting and and working out, just having that having that disciplined part of your day affects the rest of your day. You talk about going home after you go to the gym and the mood you're in, and that just you're a better husband, you're a better father. Talk about how just your discipline around exercise and health seeps into the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Yeah, I think discipline, like you said, it it's it's contagious or it kind of bleeds into every single thing in my life. I was in the military as in the Marines, and obviously to be in a military, you have to be very disciplined. And so I think that helped me to be, you know, a better trainer or train better in

Aging, Smarter Nutrition, And Consistency

SPEAKER_00 34:20

the gym because I knew how to work out. I knew that, you know, fitness was an important part of life to make sure that I'm able to function in every single thing I do, whether it's work, whether it's combat, whether, you know, no matter what it is. And so, yeah, that does lead into life. Sometimes you've got to be careful because, you know, the discipline that I have and that kind of type A hardcore personality, not everyone can can take that. You know, like if I'm like that with my wife or my kids, um, obviously it might be a bit too much. So you have to kind of learn how to tailor it. But, you know, in the workplace, it's it's definitely something good because, you know, I'm in there and I can be a leader because I know that you know you have to do certain things a certain way in order for you to get that mission accomplished, that task done. Um, so everything that I do within the gym, and people, you know, they're the same way. I I go in there and I got my you know my healthy food in a Tupperware bowl, and they're ordering pizza and you know, subway sandwiches and things like that. And then I and they say, Oh, okay, where are you going after you know get off work? I'm going to the gym. You know, and they're like shocked I'm going to the gym because it's just a part of life, it's the discipline that I have. But, you know, they may laugh at it at first, but you know, I've been working at the same place for about four years, and now they're like, Yeah, you know, you're inspiring me to go, you know, work out. And then they ask me, hey, do you train people? Can you send me a diet plan? And I do it. You know, I I I want to help them out because it's like it's like spreading the gospel, right? Like I said, I'm a Christian. But you're spreading the good news of the healthy lifestyle that you can have in longevity. And it's mainly the people that are my age, because they obviously just like you probably get the same thing. Like they can't believe you're you're 48 years old, you know, you're probably looking like guys in your early 30s. Um, so when I tell them my age, they just don't believe it. And then I really don't even tell them about the things I've done in in bodybuilding because I just don't want to, I said that that's not who I am. I don't like you know bragging about that stuff, but they end up finding out, and next thing you know, it's like non-stop questions about fitness and what I'm eating and this. But I think that discipline is is really helped me to just you know inspire others, you know, and and do the best I can in every facet of life.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

So, you know, as a bodybuilder and having done many, many shows,

Sleep Truths And Adjusting Training Load

SPEAKER_02 36:32

like what what do you think the most important thing you learned about like setting a goal? It doesn't necessarily about bodybuilding here, but like for someone who like sets a goal to like run a marathon or do something that's like challenges themselves physically. In your case, or in my case too, we did we uh you know it's bodybuilding, but like what what does that do for you? What have you learned from like going out going out and like taking taking that type of risk and challenge to put yourself you know at that highest level?

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Yeah, I mean for me it's one of those things, and I'm sure you you can think the same way, you when you before you do it, you maybe have that fear that you can't do it. But once you do it, it just opens up a whole floodgate, doors, everything else that you know, how far can I go? So I think in my opinion, it's just getting started. You know, if you can take that first step to, you know, get started in that goal, no matter what it is, if you're trying to, you know, get on the golf course or or maybe uh do something with going to school, you know, going to college or something, take that first step and you know get this the process started. And once you get that process started, like follow through. I mean, whether you got to pay money to make sure you're like committed to it, just be committed and do it, and you never know how far you can go, because I never in a million years would I think I would have reached where I'm at now in the fitness industry. And um, you know, when I got pretty successful into the sport, you know, 10 years into it, um, things just started rolling like really quickly, and I it's it's a lot, but um I've been blessed, you know, and I think anybody can do it. I don't feel like some special person, I'm just a person that actually took that step and continued on and continue with the passion. And if you got a passion for something, make take that first step, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 38:17

Yeah, and you know, it for someone in their 40s and 50s, it may not be you you were able to find something you were loved at at an early age of you know 20 years old, about was their first time. Yes, like 21, yeah. Right. So you you know you got really to experience a life of this pursuit of bodybuilding and and and that kind of thing. But for somebody that's you know 43, 48, whatever, and they're they're like, I'm I always recommend like chat find some physical challenge, some some event that you need to put out there that scares the shit out of you. You know what I mean? Like I don't care, marathon, bodybuilding show, whatever. Spartan race, something, put it on, pay for it. Like you said, I love that. Put the money down. You know, when I when I was gonna do the NPC show uh this last April, you know, first thing I did as I went and got my NPC card and I signed up for the uh Phil Heath classic. No transition. I was like, nope, money's out. I'd out, you know, I'm doing it, right? And and there's not that that sounds like a small thing, but it's actually like it's a mindset shift. You have you have a way out, like, hey, you know, I haven't paid for it yet. Maybe I'll maybe I'll use a better show two weeks later. You know, you start playing all these games.

SPEAKER_00 39:32

Right. I'm telling you, you're so right. I do that with all my clients. I say, okay, you plan on competing. If you're gonna plan on competing in this show, find me a show that you want to do and pay for it. And that that locks them in. They have no choice but to get ready. And it's a big shift in their mind and their, you know, discipline because I get others to say, Oh, I don't know, and it when they say, I don't know, and you you you keep that, you can't have that in your vocabulary. Because once you do that, you're second guessing yourself and you're just gonna keep staying You're going to stay at this really low level when you can actually be up here.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

So Yeah. That's awesome. Talk talk about like you obviously are are you do you do bodybuilding coaching specifically, or like who do you what clients do you work with?

SPEAKER_00 40:14

Um I do have

Faith, Humility, And Redefining Success

SPEAKER_00 40:15

just you know non-athletic clients just trying to get fit. Um like I said at my job, people just reach out to me and say, hey, you know, my my daughter, she just had a baby, you know, you might like whipping up a plan for her and I'll pay you whatever, you know. So I don't advertise, um, but obviously with the success I've had in the sport, I get mostly a lot of people that are aspiring bodybuilders or fitness figure or whatever. Um, but like I said, I do also get those that, you know, just want the healthy lifestyle. And you know, I give them different prices, different type of plans, and things like that. But um, being around the industry so long and seeing different types of body body types and also the way I train myself, um I've really got a good grasp on how to get people in shape no matter what their fitness level is, no matter what their gender, age, etc. You know, it's just one of those things that with experience, you know, you become more successful.

SPEAKER_02 41:06

Yeah, it you know, something about when you, you know, and I look, I I've worked out throughout my life, but not at the you know, the last three or four years has been kind of like all in, right? And that's been cool. But you know, in your case, for like you're literally your entire life in this world of bodybuilding and and just like you know, you talk about like it's almost like spreading the gospel. I love that. Like it's like you have really like fallen in love with this whole sport and and and the the uniqueness and the kind of the discipline and and the the whole aspect of the sport of bodybuilding, and you want to help other people find that too. Um whether somebody's a bodybuilder or just wanting to get healthy, like what's just from your experience, what's the advice or the the mindset, the the thing that you would want somebody listening to kind of to take a step towards that's really that you feel like that's one of the keys that you see over and over again, if they can get that a little bit better, that they're gonna they're they're gonna be a lot more um you know successful what they do.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yeah, I think we already talked about it, but it's really you know, the mindset of thinking that they can actually do it. You know, a lot of people just are scared because when you, you know, when you've been unhealthy or if you looked a certain way for like the majority of your life, you don't feel like you can like look the way you do and then look like someone, you know, like yourself or me or whatever, and all of it. And not saying that you're gonna look, everyone's gonna look different when they get in shape, but if you just put in the work and actually just take the time to like if I if I knew I can become rich, you know, I'm gonna go to someone like Bill Gates and like follow every single step he has and pay him the money and follow it step by step by step, right? And so for people that want to get in shape, say, look, find someone that you know is a reputable coach and and listen to everything they say. Don't second you can ask questions, but if you're second-guessing everything that they're trying to tell you to teach you, you're probably not gonna get to the way you want to be, you know. So I think it's just being courageous enough to um take that first step. Second, listen to those that are successful and have done it, and really humble yourself to just follow everything to the T. You know, whether you need to get rid of all the crazy foods that you got in your refrigerator, in your cat in your cupboard, start fresh, you gotta change your lifestyle, and then you'll be amazed at what can happen to your body, what can happen to your life. And that's that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

So yeah, it's there's so many people that just kind of make, you know, they're like, Well, what can I keep the Oreos? And you know, we're we're so we're so kind of like, you know, our some oftentimes we're kind of wrapped around, like our personality is almost around like certain foods or certain you know, happy hour, that's my jam. Like it's just a thing that you do that's not healthy, like you don't have to do that, right? You know, but like you know, it's kind of comfort, comfort things that they have in their life that you know, but those are hard things to really change, and those are hard things to step out of and like redefine themselves outside of those comfortable places for they feel accepted and they feel they're getting some sort of validation from it.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Well, I I I will say this, and you brought up a really good point because I'm not trying to make it sound like you have to get rid of everything, you know, because there's no way that's not saying blow up the pantry. No, you can't blow up the pantry because you know that that's not the way to really live. There's no way I would have been doing this as long as I have if I was like every single day I'm eating chicken and asparagus. You know, I you you have to have a life, you have to be able to like go out and you know party with friends and do that. So everyone that I I work with, I I I try to help them with the lifestyle that they already have, be able to slowly but surely just adopt the healthy habits so that they make the initial changes, but still they're able to do the things that they're still doing in life. Because if you take everything away, it's not gonna work out, it's gonna be a temporary fix. And so it's all

Natural vs Enhanced: Health And Legacy

SPEAKER_00 45:05

about having something that you can do to make your lifestyle still the way it is, but just make better options, better choices, including, you know, getting to the gym, getting some kind of workout. It doesn't have to be like what we do with weight training. It could just be anything that's physically physically like to do. They want to do CrossFit, do CrossFit. They want to run, you know, run if they want to do you know, whatever. But it's just getting active and eating right is the way to just change your life.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

So yeah. I think the the challenge too is when you're 20, you know, you talked about being 20, like working out with the guys on the military base and like go party on the weekend, and like but but that you could do that at twenty in your when you're in your 20s, you are like a superhuman. Like I said, like when people kids in their teens are like rubber bands, like they don't they're not gonna get hurt at at 18, 19. The 20s, you testosterone or whatever, you know, you're boy, girl, like you just you're just full of everything, right? Your body's ready to grow. And so you can kind of do you can be pretty pretty loose with your nutrition and those types of things and still get results. Now you're gonna get better results if you if you lock in on some of those more just you know kind of habits, but you get to 30s, 40s, 50s, and I'm not 50 yet, but like uh just between 44 and 48, I really felt like man, I needed to lock in even more, like in terms of like just the amount of good decisions I make in a day versus like the bad decisions, or you know, like how many times I can have pizza before it catches up with me, right? Like in those, so and I think this is a hard thing for sometimes men to swallow is like this idea of like, well, I it I used I used to be able to just like start working out and I just drop all the weight. Yeah, me too, at 28. I mean, go to the gym for a couple weeks and I was like, hey, look at the muscles are back, right? Right, right, right. And we we have to accept the fact that, you know, I mean, and your your testosterone levels are probably down from where they were in their 20s, your your body does not recover as fast, our our gut health, all those things. We're just not quite the, you know, unfortunately, we're not quite the athlete or you know, that we were in our 20s, and that's okay, right? But we have to be smarter and we have to work out smarter. You know, you're talking about warming up, foam rolling, you know, doing those things to set up and really listening to your body, also putting the good foods in and just you know, just owning more of that, the discipline around health and longevity. Yes, big time, big time. And that's you know, the reality is is like when you've been doing it, it's not that hard once you've you've been doing it for but but we're not saying it's easy, right? Like Philip myself, we're not sitting here going, oh yeah, it's easy, no problem, just start doing it, right? That's why you hire a coach. You know, I'm I'm working with a lot of guys, you know, here in Austin, like the same type of thing. It's like, you know, working on strength training, we're working on you know food intake, how much protein, all that kind of stuff. Are they getting enough sleep? You know, water, like all those little things matter so much more.

SPEAKER_00 48:16

Yes, big time. You hit it right on the head. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

Talk about sleep, man. I

Promoting An International Natural Show

SPEAKER_02 48:20

think that's that's I mean, we're it's it's coming up. You hear it a lot in podcasts, but I want to reiterate how important sleep is. Talk about your sleep habits and what your I what's your gonna go with sleep for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

That's probably my biggest failure, and I I'll admit that right away, and my wife will tell you, it's it's one of those things where if you listen to a lot of successful people, you know, they'll tell you, I'm only getting four to six hours sleep so I can get everything done. And unfortunately, they're right. The only way you can get most of this stuff done is like you gotta sacrifice something. And unfortunately, I do the same that sacrifice sleep. And I'm getting at least six hours, which is good. But even I can tell such a huge difference. Six hours, by the time I get to Thursday, Friday, I'm like, I'm I'm a brain fog and body's just broken down. And then on the weekend, when I try to catch up, if I get like seven to eight, just getting two extra hours sleep. I don't need, you know, to pop, you know, three things of caffeine and coffee, and you know, I can actually function just because of the sleep. And so it's very important. If you can get that seven to eight hours sleep, I mean it's it's magic. It's good for your growth hormone, it's good for your mental capacity. Um, sleep is beyond important, and I know it, but that's one of the big failures in my own life that I I wish I can fix. Um, but for me, you know, I got a new puppy here that's sitting under my under my foot that you know needs to eat pee, poop, and all that good stuff. I got two other dogs, you know, I got a wife and got at work, and so, you know, life happens. And so you have to find a way to balance it. Sometimes I know I can get earlier sleep by getting to bed early, but then you you end up watching movies and stuff. So it it it's it takes intentionality. Um, it takes you know being able to schedule and make things happen, but it's not always a perfect storm the way you can get that that sleep, but it is very, very important for sure.

SPEAKER_02 50:14

Well, and and that, you know, that's doesn't sound that abnormal. I mean, got you know, six hours, you know, especially during weekdays with with work and school or you know, just kids' schedules and all that kind of stuff. Right. I think it's it's important to think about like, I mean, oftentimes people say, Oh, I take the weekends off, but I get the best sleep on the weekends like you. I mean, I'm getting nine, I got nine hours last night, thank God. Right? Fantastic, right? You know what? So today is leg day because I got nine hours of sleep. I was ready. I was in there, I was, you know, it's like versus like you get four hours of sleep and you go in, you're like, I'm gonna crush this workout. You might your body is not recovering. What like you like you're you're playing with a very fragile state because your nervous system, part of sleep, you talked about you know growth hormone being released, and you know, naturally, your testosterone is being released as you kind of come out of sleep as daybreak happens, and like that's when your natural

Choosing The Right Stage And Community

SPEAKER_02 51:10

test is at its highest, is in the morning. Um, so those are those are positive things that come from sleep, but if you if you miss that, you you know you're not sleeping well, you're getting four hours of sleep, you know, your system, your nervous system's not like settled in and like strong. And so that's you know, that's where like you say, you sometimes you gotta go in the gym and say, like, you know what, I don't quite feel it today. I'm not going for a PR in my deadlift, or maybe instead of five sets of five on you know, on whatever exercise you're gonna do, you know, five sets of ten, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:45

But that's it, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:46

Yeah, and that's and and unfortunately those lessons are usually learned by making by like hurting yourself and going like, ah, yeah, do that again.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Right, right, right. Yeah, it's great, especially at our age, you know, like you said, 20 years old. We can party, you know, all night long, get three hours of sleep, and still go to the gym and you know, still function. You get into your 30s, 40s, especially late 40s, 50s. If you don't get that sleep, you are playing with fire for sure, you know.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

Well, hey, last question for you, uh, Philip. I you know, you you talk about being a man of God. Uh I I've I know just from listening to other podcasts up about with you that you found, you know, your kind of your your relationship with God later in life after you know some mistakes and some and some kind of overcoming some kind of bad decisions in your life. Talk about how important that's been to you and kind of like how you were able to kind of be in one place in your life, be making mistakes or maybe not being your best self and and kind of how you transitioned into the person you are today.

SPEAKER_00 52:47

Oh, yeah, for sure. Uh uh, thank you for allowing me to speak on this because it is very important, you know, early in life, very shy kid. Um, when I joined the military, you know, military life is crazy. You're you're always gonna go. And I I just lived kind of one of those wild lives where, you know, working out, partying, um, you know, relationship-wise, I had a lot of failed relationship divorces, and you know, it it's rough because I didn't have God in my life to just ground me with the decisions I make. And um, you know, I I became a Christian at um in

Closing Reflections & Practical Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 53:24

2012. Um, and when that happened, it just gave me a new focus on, you know, my humility, my pride, um, knowing that everything I did is I can't make excuses for the way I lived, the things that I did. Um, and so I just held myself more accountable because I knew that, you know, God is looking at everything that I do and I want to please him. And even though he forgives everything that I've done, um, I still want to make sh make him proud, right? It's like God's like your father. So if you look at him as your dad, you don't want to disappoint your dad. And um I also saw how the things that I did affected other people. And so even with the successes I had in bodybuilding before, you know, knewing Jesus, I could see that it was all because I was prideful. Kind of like you're talking about with uh the Arnold Schwarzenegger uh, you know, what he got a documentary, right? Talking about his life and all the immoral things that he's you know, the way that he thought to make himself become, you know, the greatest bodybuilder of all time and a man that he is with all the successes, is he had to really be super selfish, right? And if you're super selfish, yeah, you can become successful, but at what cost? And so everything comes with a cost, and I had a lot of things that came with a cost, and yeah, I became very successful as you know in natural bodybuilding, bodybuilding in general, but you know, there was a cost. And I felt like once I became saved, I knew that even though I was having success and people were asking me to do you know guest poses and appearances and all this stuff, the mindset of the reason why I was competing and working out and doing what I did totally took a 180. You know, it wasn't just about self, it was more about trying to give back. You know, I I I enjoy more of people that reach out to me because I'm a Christian, people reaching out to me because of my career and wanting to me to assist them, and I'm not gonna take advantage of them. I want to give back so that they can be a better person. And so I think my faith has just made me, you know, still a work in progress, and I'm always gonna be a work in progress, but it's helped me to really um focus on humanity versus myself. And, you know, it's one of those, it's always a battle. There's so many battles I have to go through internally, and that's why I pray to to the Lord to just, you know, make sure that I'm I'm not uh turning into the wrong directions or distracted off the path that he wants me to be on. And I want to be a good role model. I want to be a good role model for all the athletes out there, um all the people that I I coach and train, all my friends, especially my family, my wife, you know, kids. Um and so I think this is the way, this is what life is supposed to be about, you know. So um my faith in the Lord is is really uh what I uh I call myself to. Um and I I I'm just really glad that I found Jesus when I did, because I know a lot of people, and and it's you know, a lot of people that are maybe my age and they're you know, they haven't found that that way, you know, and they're living a lost lifestyle. And even those, and I'm not trying to point out people that are taking steroids and drugs, and I know there's probably some Christians that might be, you know, um enhanced. But when I look at the lifestyle of some of the the top like IFBB bodybuilders that are passing away in their 40s and 50s, it's very scary and it's sad, you know.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

You just had one pass away yesterday.

SPEAKER_00 56:52

Yeah, it was uh Gustavo Badell, who's like one of the guys I followed back in the day, you know, when he was 50 years old.

SPEAKER_02 56:57

He was second to Ronnie Coleman, third to Ronnie Coleman.

SPEAKER_00 57:00

I remember I actually saw I was actually in Vegas for that one because they had like a different thing where they had like where the um audience was able to like judge who who wins like each of the poses and he beat him there, but then Ronnie won, you know, and he was second to Ronnie. But it it's crazy, you know, and and it's not just a one-off type deal here, not to say that natural bodybuilders aren't dying too, but the way they're dying, a reason why you're not gonna see an IFB or NPC bodybuilders still competing in their 60s and 70s. And in natural federations now, like the one I promote, the IMBA PNBA, uh, there are guys, there's a guy in his 60s, Peter Chahansky, and there's a few others that are just like amazing, you know, Kent Beerley, and there's, you know, a bunch I can name off, Marshall Johnson. These guys are in their 60s looking incredible. And they are my motivation. You know, Marshall's another Christian man that I I I talk to a lot, and we both have the same mindset when it comes to like, you know, we're building our body for God, you know, we're just trying to do the best we can to just be an ambassador, um, just for those, and give back and just give both the spiritual and physical um, you know, mentorship that's needed in this world, trying to be a light.

SPEAKER_02 58:16

Well, you know, for it's so important in these, in this kind of time, this chapter of our lives. And I I I, you know, I'm I I see this kind of you know, 40 to 60 as really a very pivotal chapter, and whether it's you know, finding God or finding purpose in like not just selfish pursuits, but like how can we give back? How can we take what we've learned in our life? And some people really just need to get back on the horse in a sense and kind of like get their health back, get their mojo back, get their confidence back. And uh, and that's you know, I think you and I are in in our own ways are supporting those people. But I think once once you once you become somebody who's inspiring to other people, you know, it can't be an ego thing. It has to be a like, how can I lead, how can I support, how can I lift others up? Uh, you know, because you know, like there's no being as healthy as you are, you know, being a natural athlete, like there's no reason that you could be, you know, kind of the Albert Beckles, you know. Right, right. And this, you know, somebody who's competing or or supporting the sport in in your 60s and 70s, as being super healthy cognitively, physically, all those things. And you know, I think we're so it just in general, like people work out, they want immediate results, they want to be somewhere, you know, in six months that looks or feels strong and and and is impressive and all of that. But if we look at life as like a journey of like, you know, 20, 30, 40 more years, you're 51 about 52. Like, if you know, if we start looking at like you got 40 plus years left. You know, that's a there's a what what does that journey look like?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:06

Whole other life right there, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:07

If you think about it, I mean I was just I could be live, I could live 48 more years. Like I could be halfway done.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:14

Yes, you you I was just thinking about that the other day, and so you said exactly what I was that's that's amazing. You know, my my grandmother was 102 years old, passed away this year. Oh, so you got the genes and praying that's what happens, but you know, like you said, we have life is not over just because you're this age. And I think you know, people that said, Oh, I used to be like this, and I was an athlete, blah, blah, blah. But then, of course, they're overweight, they have health issues. They they can get back to where they were. They just need some kind of motivation to get them started. And like you said, hopefully we're able to motivate those type of people to get back in the gym. I've I've gotten messages from people who say that they've seen like the documentary on Generation Iron and all that, and they just fired them to get back in the gym. Nothing makes me more happy than to hear that more than anything else, many more than any title, that right there makes me happy because I want people to be healthy. Like, there's no reason why 50 has to be old. 50 should be the new 30, right? So that's the way, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:14

And you can you, I mean, you know, you've been doing a long time, so I mean, it's it you people could say, well, he was strong since you know, because he'd been doing this, but like I I I could tell you guys, and I've seen it, like, if you do like I got a couple of friends at the gym who kind of started working out in their 40s, like, and you know, you can get stronger, you can put on muscle even in your 40s and 50s, yeah. Don't have to be on TRT, right? You don't have to do a bunch of steroids to do it, like you just have to be disciplined, smart, and relentless about showing up in the gym, kind of like what you've been doing like six, seven days a week. Like, you know, I'm trying to make it five. I what I try to do is two on, one off, two on, one off. Like, and it's so it's it ends up being about five days a week. I'm in the gym, or yeah, just kind of forcing myself to take a day off and I go jog or I go try to do some sort of cardio because you know, I know that uh you know, bodybuilders, we don't love cardio in general.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:14

I don't know about you, but I don't I don't love it, but I know that it's effective and I know that it's important. Heart health, you know, you gotta do something to keep the heart going instead of just but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:26

Well, amen. And by the way, uh you mentioned it, and I I want to just shout out the Generation Iron, the Natty Life. It's the fourth documentary. For some reason, most controversial. What was that about? Why is it so controversial? Is it because is it got Mike O'Hearns in it and nobody believes he's natural?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Well, I can't make a comment about that one.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

No, we cannot talk about it. Yeah, I mean, there's one old Mike showing up my door.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:51

They they did they did a lot of, you know, the way they filmed this one for the controversy. I think they did an amazing job, you know, not just because you know I was in it and everything, but I just feel like all the characters they had, they had Kai Green in there, you know. Oh I agree. He was great, you know. And I I Kai Green, you know, maybe not a lot of people know, but he was one of the top naturals for a long time with the WMBF. And then, you know, he obviously won like the team university and he went IFPB, and now he's you know, he is who he is. But you know, having someone like him that knows both sides, he was able to talk about that. But you know, there's a lot of controversy because people, and it rightly so, not a lot of people know that there's natural body link. No one knows like some of the names that are out there, except for our you know, circle of natural body lovers. You know, everyone else is really NPC IFPB focused, and you know, it's a shame because I I hope that you know we can get more, you know, more visual um just respect too that you know there is another side of body where we can be you know healthy and and still be impressive with your physique. So hopefully the movie did that a little bit, the documentary did, but you know, it's still a work in progress, and we'll see how it goes. We just gotta keep doing what we do and not worry about what everybody else is doing so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:05

And you you actually promote a natural bodybuilding show uh once a year, is it the uh Legends International? Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, yeah, and and where I where I can sign up for the 2024 show.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Oh yes, please, you gotta come out here. So it's uh I I did my very first promotion for the show in 2014. So 2024 will be kind of like the 10-year anniversary in in some ways, and actually hosted at my church, which is great because you have a great venue. Um and I I used to live in California because I was stationed out there um as a Marine. San Diego, right? Camp Penalty. San Diego, Camp Penalty. So I had most of my success out there, you know, constantly competing because the Federation is actually located there, their their presidential housing or whatever. Uh most of the shows in the West Coast. So when I came out here on the East Coast to get a job after I retired, they didn't have any presence of the Federation. So I said, look, all they have is these other natural organizations, but we need to get our presence out here. How can we make it happen? So, well, if you promote, we'll make it happen. It's like, oh my goodness. And I I'm not a promoter, I'm just I just want to be on stage. I don't want to do any of that other business type stuff. But uh they helped me out, and like I said, 2014 was the very first one, and 10 years in, I'm still going, and you know, it's been very successful. I get a lot of the big name people coming out to the show, and then a couple of years ago I had people come from Australia, Germany, Brazil. Like it is truly international. So um each year, some of the winners that come out of my show end up doing very well at the Natural Olympia. Some we had a couple of champions that come from my show that qualified as a Natural Olympia qualifier in the same year, they end up you know winning the Natural Olympia in their division. So great show. Um, one of the few here on the East Coast. Um, so yeah, if anyone can come out here, I usually have it um April, like end of April. I might switch it to May, depending on if I go to Israel, because I might go to Israel with my church. Um, if that happens, I'll go and push it off. Otherwise it'd be late April again.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:04

Awesome. That's fantastic, man. I I I had this idea of maybe uh, you know, like as I'm a natural bodybuilder, I really looked for, I was like, the first thing I want to do is like where are the natural bodybuilding shows? I there's nothing. I'm sure there's some in in Texas, but it's really hard to find, you know, like a show far enough out to like be able to, you know, it's just it's just not it's not something that's that's you know, at least in my you know, around Austin is is really well uh well promoted or attended and anything like that. So there's a lot of IFB, or it's IFPB, yeah. If and MP NPC, like um, so I'm actually going to the Texas Pro with a buddy of mine from from San Diego. We're gonna fly out, he's gonna fly out and meet me in in Dallas for the Texas Pro. Nice, yeah. Yeah, you know, I mean, Hunter Labrata and uh Andrew Jacked. It's gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:57

Big old beast, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

Yeah, that's the great thing. I mean, this is the other side, it's like I can be natural and still love bodybuilding, knowing that they're you know doing all the things. And I just still love, I mean, I just love the sport, and I love like, hey, yeah, that guy's a freak. It's amazing. Like, but still, like, you know, you just appreciate because you know, that's that's like the you know, it doesn't just take steroids to get somebody that big. It takes it first of all, it takes work ethic, it takes discipline, it takes genetics, it takes, you know, never, you know, there's so many like positive sides of like that type of athlete who pushes himself that far to be that great. And you know, and it's just you know, I think people make the assumption, well, if you if I did a bunch of PEDs, I could be like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:47

Give it a shot and see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

Yeah, it's not uh it's not a magic pill, you know. It does it does put you at a different level, but it's definitely not magic. If you're not in the gym and you're not watching your nutrition, you're you're still gonna be the same person, you know, just just angry. And you know, the same thing, like you're saying, too. Like I obviously, the majority of natural bodybuilders, we start off not knowing about natural bodybuilding. We know about, you know, I grew up looking at Arnold first and then Boyer Co. Ronnie, uh, I mean uh Roppy Robinson, and then when I was out, it was like Flex Wheeler, Sean Ray, uh, Vince Taylor, all these greats, Lee Labrada, like those are the guys I was like, oh my god, I want to be like and I had no idea, and I'm I was so naive about steroids, right? And then I started doing like armed forces shows and then I did, you know, some NPC shows. And I'm thinking, like, why, you know, what's the what's the deck? Why is there such a difference? But I still did very well in the NBC shows. And um, it wasn't until later on when I found the federation that I now promote for when I really found a home, knowing that you know it's an even playing field. And so that's why I'm pretty much married to that federation. And I've done it pretty much almost every single natural federation that's out there. Um, but uh, you know, you kind of have to, you know, lay your foundation at one of them so that you can kind of continue to work with those athletes and and promote build that kind of relationship with that organization too.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:13

I mean, I did an NPC show and we can wrap this up in a little bit here, but just I did the MVC show, it was Phil Heath Classic. It was great. I I wanted a big show, I kind of wanted the whole experience of like doing a big MPC show. Yeah, but I mean, I I you know the judges at the end of the show, they sent me an email feedback, they're like, love the you're very lean, you look great, great personality on stage. If you could just put on about 15 pounds of muscle for next. I was like, Yeah, show me how. I mean, uh you know, it's fun, but it's and and so I I've no regrets. Love that I did it, loved being on stage. I mean, freaking Bob Chicorello's up there doing the oh no, you know, like do you mean you know Phillies walking around in the tightest jeans you've ever seen? You know, it's just a show, it was awesome. But uh but the next time I do it, was that you look great too.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:08

You were shredded. I was like, yeah, you you would if if you bring that physique to my stage next year, oh yeah, you'll get that pro card.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:15

Um and but that's the that's you know, it that's that seven layers of of tan, which I didn't realize. I mean, the difference between not tan and tan with with like it just pulls everything out, like just the lights. All these things that I never saw, like everywhere, yeah. But uh, but yeah, that but I so I did the show, loved it. My my son was there, and he you know, cheering me on like everything about it was cool. But I realized after the show, I was like, I need to be in I need to be with my people, right? I need to be with natural bodybuilders, you know, masters 40, whatever. Like I need to be putting myself against other people that are just like me, uh, so I can really know and experience that that true, you know, that true bodybuilding experience, you know. Man, amen. Make it out. All right, that's what I'm doing. But hey, you never know. I might show up in uh Virginia and uh that'll be awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:13

That'll be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

That would be good timing. Yeah, well, hey, Philip, man, thank you. This was awesome for me, just as a fan of of bodybuilding, to talk to you. But I think you know what I really wanted to get from you, and I think we we achieved that today, was just this, you know, what can men in this at this chapter of their life, what can they grab from your kind of mindset and your discipline, your habits, to pull and and kind of give them that juice, give them a little more information to help them stay on course or start, you know, in that direction. And so I appreciate you and your and your vulnerability in that way.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:50

I appreciate you. Thank you so much. I I really enjoyed this this uh this uh talk.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:55

Yeah, absolutely. I love when people have that shift. When they're 30 or 40, that something happens where it's like they realize giving back to others is really what it's all about. You know, and they whether you know Philip's talking about being prideful or or just kind of selfishly driven in his early 20s and 30s as a bodybuilder, you know, finding God and really finding the value and the and the fulfillment of helping others has really transformed his life. And so I love that about Philip that him sharing that, and I I hope that's fine, you're finding those types of things for yourself. I mean, I think a big part of this time in our lives is marrying the two things being healthy, being our best, being strong, being capable, having self-confidence, but at the same time being about others, our community, our family, our kids. Like, I don't want you guys to be selfish. I don't want you guys to be like, you know, not caring about anything else except your health, your fitness, your bench press max. Like, that's not what I'm trying to do here. I want to help you guys maximize your potential, you know, in the space of health and fitness, but also within the space of having the clarity and the confidence and the vulnerability to be great parents, to be great husbands, to be great you know, members of the community. And I think Philip is a great example of that at 52 years old. So think about that for yourself. I mean, last week I talked about kind of the five you know daily things I'm thinking about health, fitness, family, growth, creativity. What are the little things that you can be thinking about on a daily basis? They kind of move the whole engine of your life in the direction you want to go. Because if we only care about business or we only care about one thing, and we let all the other things kind of fall by the wayside, that's not an effective way of living a healthy life that we're gonna be fulfilled by. So fitness is a big part of it, health is a big part of it, but family, community, business, those things are also a piece of that too. So as we're developing the skills, the strengths, the uh the discipline around health, those things also need to show up in other parts of your life. And when you have discipline in one area of your life, you can transpose that into other areas as long as you prioritize them, just as you're prioritizing your own health and fitness goals. So take that with you. If you missed the last episode, uh jump back, give it a listen. I talk a lot about prioritization, things you can do now to kind of maximize what you're already doing that's healthy, and some other tips that I think will be valuable to you. Alright, thanks for listening to the Mindset Forward podcast. Boom!