(43) Modern Methods of Construction & Canada’s First 3D Printed Building - Amy Vilis, Leigh Newman, Stephan Mansour

In this episode of the Real Estate Development Insights podcast, host Payam Noursalehi dives into the fascinating world of digitization, new-age technologies, and construction innovation in real estate development. Joined by three esteemed guests—Amy Villis, Leigh Newman, and Stephan Mansour—the discussion explores the potential of 3D printing, AI, and other digital solutions in transforming the housing industry. Amy, Director of Housing Growth Innovation at Digital, provides an overview of her organization's mission and the projects they're investing in. Leigh, CEO of Print, shares insights on the challenges and successes in adopting 3D printing in construction. Stephan Mansour talks about the importance of standards and certifications in advancing new technologies. Together, they examine the current state of the industry, regulatory hurdles, and the critical role of innovation in meeting housing demands. Tune in for an in-depth conversation on how these pioneering approaches can lead to better, more sustainable homes.

• Housing Growth Innovation
• What is Additive Construction?
• 3D Printing Standards for Construction
• Challenges and Innovations in Construction
• The Role of Data in Housing Innovation
• Easing Innovation into the Construction Ecosystem
• Concerns About New Technologies in Construction
• Challenges with Adoption and Implementation
• Record-Breaking 3D Printed Building Project
• Navigating Regulatory and Permitting Hurdles
• On-site Quality Assurance and Innovations
• Material and Technology Integration

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Transcript

Payam 0:01

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Real Estate Development Insights podcast, where we bring you ideas, experiences, and best practices from the real estate development industry. My name is Payam Nhi. I'm the president of Dental project management and construction and project management firm who helps developers define design and. Successful projects. We have an interesting episode today. We have three guests and our topic is a little bit different than our usual topic of development. Today we're gonna talk about digitization, digital, new age technologies, and hopefully some of the progress that we can use in the not too distant future to improve the situation that we are in and hopefully build better houses. Our first guest, Amy, which I have to thank for putting together this group. And Amy and I met a few months ago, three during one of our site visits on one of the projects. Amy Villa is the Director of Housing Growth Innovation at Digital, which I'm gonna get her to explain what digital is. prior to working at digital, she used to work for City of Vancouver, affordable housing manager, and she has a history of dealing with temporary modular housing back in 2019 and that type of project. So we're hoping to touch base on that. And, side note, she has a podcast, which I definitely suggest everyone go out, go there and check it out. It's called Blueprint for Growth Innovation in Housing, and. It won an award for best podcast in 2025 under the Best Tech podcast category, which is interesting, dealing with construction and housing and winning a, an award in a tech category. My second guess for this episode is Lee Newman, an entrepreneur and executive with over a decade of experience in civil and multi-unit residential construction, including the co-founding of three construction companies. And he is here as CEO of print, a PropTech and green tech platform for additive construction, which we're gonna dig into today, into this. New realm of construction, if you may And his colleague, which is Stefan Mansour. And he has over two decades or nearly two decades of experience in construction cent sector and Steven's. More technical from what I gathered during my research online. he deals a lot with the standards, with the additive for construction and the material typology works in 3D printing. So we're gonna talk about that and hopefully, I'm hoping to hear that we're gonna have the very first three printed house in Canada coming soon, and we'll see if that news comes on this podcast. As always, you can find all the relevant information and links to our website, realestate development insights.com. And please remember to subscribe to the show. Thank you. Amy, thank you for your time. We appreciate you being here. How are you doing today?

Amy Villis 2:55

my pleasure. Thanks for having me. It's fun to be on the other side of, the quote unquote mic,

Payam 3:00

Yes.

Amy Villis 3:01

honor your ability to put on a podcast. It takes, it does take some effort, but thank you for having me. I'm Amy Villa, director of Housing Growth Innovation at Digital. digital is one of, the innovation clusters, in Canada. They were, formed about six, seven years ago, with a focus across, different digital innovation things along the lines of health. natural resources. We work within mining, quantum ai, all of those areas and, a federally funded program. But, our housing minister at the time out here in British Columbia, minister, Ravi Callan, had the foresight to think, oh, how could we look at innovating in housing in this. Same way. so approach digital to start this housing growth innovation program. So we are actually provincially funded out here in bc. and, have been at it for about a year and a half, almost two years now. we three main purposes. One is the ecosystem building, talking about innovation and helping seed ideas and bring people together that have ideas. Thus, the podcasts. The presentations and, awareness we bring to the technologies, and nurturing a pipeline of ideas as well as we co-invested in, about 12, mission projects that are all looking at, technologies that are impacting, housing production, various types, and as well as some workforce development, knowledge mobilization and adoption stuff. So across the whole swath. And I look at it like a full service meal deal of a program that allows exploration through to, implementation of new, organizations and concepts through to mobilizing those and getting people aware and building out those businesses. And knowledge mobilization and workforce is obviously a part in that.

Payam 4:47

You have a very broad scope, if I may, from quantum ai. You, I think you mentioned to, to health and to housing and like all of these, it's, it must be interesting to be you. but before we dig too much into that,

Amy Villis 5:01

I'm

Payam 5:01

I.

Amy Villis 5:01

housing expert. Everybody else at the organization holds the quantum and the, I've got some AI in my portfolio. we can't not have AI in our portfolios. But, yeah, there's some pretty smart cookies in the organization.

Payam 5:13

I'm sure there's, I'm gonna go around, I'm gonna ask Lee to introduce himself and give us a little bit more background and then we will, I'm sure we're gonna come back to digital and dig a little bit deeper. Lee, how are you doing?

Leigh Newman 5:23

I am good. Thanks Pam. again, thank you for having me on the show. My name's Lee Newman, I'm the co-founder and CEO of print. We are a startup based here in Toronto, Canada. We're three years into, this journey, about seven years on the additive construction or 3D concrete printing, journey. I come from construction, so I'm not new to the industry, both in civil construction and general contracting. doing a lot of work in infrastructure, Ontario, assisted living, multi-unit residential, common areas, capital projects and all of that fun stuff. So I've. I'm well aware of all of the struggles that we face in regular construction, which is still brick and mortar. A hundred years later. It's the last industry to adopt innovation and technology across the board. you're trying to bring this forward, again, in a very rigid environment. We started off, by jumping heads first into purchasing a 3D printing machine once we saw a YouTube video of it and we were all excited that we were gonna print walls and it's gonna be amazing, had all of these promises given to us from the technology provider, which is the printer manufacturer. And we got our printer, we got our one week of training and we barely got the printer set up. And we quickly realized that we were gonna have to pivot our business model. And so what we did is we created additive construction as a service, which is our current platform, and that consists of all of the tools that you need in order just to use the 3D printer, which is just at the end of the day, a piece of equipment, a tool, so professional engineering, a materials, the training division, a construction arm, also a massive. R and d endeavor for the regulatory and standards portion, which I'm sure we can talk a little bit more about afterwards, which is probably one of the hottest topics in 3D printing around the world would be in the standards development. So that's where we came from. And then where we're at currently now, launching the world's largest net zero 3D printed building in the world currently, and I'm sure we can talk about that a bit

Payam 7:15

I'm excited to hear all about it. I'm going to go to Stefan first, and then we're, I'm sure we're gonna touch about that. Stefan, thank you for being here.

Stephan 7:23

thank you for having me and great to be part of this great panel. a little bit more background about myself, like you mentioned, I come from two, almost 20 years in construction, mostly working for a general contractor based out of Athens, Greece. yes, I lived in Athens, Greece and moved to Canada. but most of our projects were civil, heavy, civil oil and gas mechanical. we were getting to a point where the architectural designs in the region were turning to be very complex due to the 2030 and 2025 initiatives from the Gulf region. in order to actually print, 3D printed structures. My role in the company was actually looking at innovative approaches to actually do construction. we were looking at, IOTs, digital construction solutions, and 3D Printing was one of them. We were able to land a project with the Ministry of Housing in Saudi Arabia in 2018 to actually do some pilot projects, for 3D printing, for a single family multifamily, and then like a villa type setup. when we went into the, the design and engineering phase of the project for the single family. House, we ran into one of the problems was actually certify certification and qualification of how do we certify this structure. our engineering department quickly turned down the initial designs that, that were presented from the, technologies, provider at the time. only because there were no way to actually certify the structure and how do we build based on which standards which did not exist. we quickly pivoted into your typical rectangular shape. Building with a lot of rebar and grout, column beam reinforcement and Holocaust lab and roofing, and so on. as we tended for other projects in the region, that sort of stuck with me and we always came up with the same issue, as we were submitting for the tenders and the RFIs to actually bid for these projects. The first question that came up as a question from the clients was, how are you certifying the structure? when I left the company, I moved to Toronto in 2020. that's where I started digging into the initiatives of looking at the standards and if anybody's actually doing anything about it. Turned out nobody was. so I figured I'm not gonna wait for anybody to, to kick off the bucket. So I pretty much reached out to anybody and everybody I knew in the industry. and we were able to create a committee in 2020, which officially became an ISO A SDM committee in March of 2021. The first urgent, sort of mission for, the committee was to actually bridge the gap between traditional and 3D printing. How do you use existing standards to actually certify 3D printed structures? so that's where we kicked off the effort for five to 9, 3 9, and we were able to publish that in December of 2023. since then I've become a chair of, a SM committees. 42 0 7 0 7, and also ISO John Group 80. but we're also collaborating with other organizations like I-C-I-C-I-I-C-C-E-S, and other, committees globally. order to actually speak the same language when we're developing standards for the industry, the last thing we want to do is create confusion. so we are trying to work hand in order to support the different organizations to enable the standards and enable additive construction as a tool in the industry. That is something I do on my own time. I was, as a commercial sort of, income, I've been doing consulting in the area for public and private organizations in market analysis, adoption of 3D printing, construction tools or, like feasibility studies in the projects. and then as of May, joint print, which was spoke. Into the items that I was looking into where we, like you are enabling an ecosystem and you're not pretty much focusing on solution. So print has, its, has its sort of pillars of, topics that they wanna address and they pretty much encompass the whole ecosystem. privilege to be part of the

Payam 10:51

I like two aspects of what you just mentioned. One is that you didn't wait for someone else to do something about it, and you decided to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. And the second part is that, as someone who has had the privilege and opportunity of working with new technology, newer technologies in the industry, I very much appreciate the details that need to go into. Figuring out exactly what you said in terms of certifications and standards and not having those things in place doesn't work. You need the ecosystem. So with that, I want to go to Amy. Back to Amy. So Amy, you talked about digital. I think I get the overall idea, but I'm gonna. Put it in layman terms for myself. That is your mission, should you accept it, which it seems like you have, was to, push Canada forward to trying to digitize everything or anything that we could get our hands on and get some traction. And in this particular case, you found 12 cases of investment, wardee. Companies or ideas that were up to the scale or up to the level of accepting money and actually having a vision. Walk us through that process. What was it designed like? How did you decide this idea, meets the bar, let's invest some money in it, and how has this been going? Did you see, did you have some aha moments? And I'm like, oh, this is why. Don't do that again or do this again next time.

Amy Villis 12:19

innovation. So there's always gonna be those moments or those projects that are go, oh, maybe a little too aspirational or maybe not the right moment. So for sure, I think that when we first started this program, it was clear to me that. making these investments, you have to think, we have to root them in a rationale that, you want to see that red thread from, if we do this, it will, expedite. Housing production, and the housing sector itself, when you talk about innovation and making that joke about like, how did we win a tech podcast for a housing podcast? It's yeah, we weren't, not the early adopters putting it that way. So I think that my approach was, I mapped the end to end understanding of housing production. So I looked at it from a UX lens of if I'm a home. Regardless of what type of home, what steps and phases do I need to go through in order to be developed, through my whole life cycle. So from market demand through to end of use, looking at an eight phase approach. So once I had that eight phase approach around, market demand, due diligence, design, engineering. Procurement, construction, post commissioning, maintenance, operation, and end of life. So the full gamut, once you kinda understand that, you can start layering things on top of that. And when you look at modern methods of construction and industrialized construction, both of those things go hand in hand with digital technologies. You're not running a 3D printer without absorbing digital BIM related files and looking for those efficiencies. when I looked across, I tried to diversify the portfolio of projects from early due diligence, things like. We're doing the first of its kind in North America, AI generative design for the Maah hat nation's master planning. So that's the first time it's been done in North America. and that's to help plan, master plan a whole nation's, 2300 acres I believe. So through, looking at that, looking at how we can design buildings using standardized modular designs and housing systems with mass timber housing kits, which, a housing kit isn't all that, novel. It's. Been around for over a hundred years, but how we implement and do that in a digital environment that allows from design through to manufacturing, through to maintenance and operation, a supply chain ERP system is also one of our projects. So I've chosen 12 projects that you could actually seem together and see if you did plug them into each other, we'd be accomplishing a real significant impact in trying different digital technologies across the end to end. and that was e extremely important to have the diversity and understanding that the digital technologies, to be honest, are the backbone of how we root those modern methods of construction, which I know are talked about a lot right now. But without those digital twins, the AI products with the data feeding all of it. we're not gonna actually get too far. and, I'll leave that to the folks on the, on, the pod today to talk about how they're implementing that in their 3D printers.

Payam 15:27

I guess, if you were to look at the stages that you just, explained and that 12 instances of investment you've made, were there, areas that were more primed to accept this type of, push and did you get more traction per se, and if so, what were they, what made them ready to accept that innovation?

Amy Villis 15:48

Yeah, I think I'm gonna lean into data. when you have information, whether it's designs or you're building out an a platform, a software platform, you have to have access to quality. Data. I would say that the rooting in, I get pitched projects quite often and I call them like my chandeliers. I get these beautiful chandeliers and they look great, and you're like, How are you lighting them up? Where is the data that is going to harness this big, beautiful chandelier of a product? And I know that we're leaning into that nowadays with AI bubbles being burst. Not just the financial markets, but the quality of things that are being built. And when you're dealing with housing, you're dealing with the regulatory environment. And when you think about the data, who owns that data? Our local governments. Federal and provincial governments do, and how they've harnessed that, is part of this narrative. I would say that's the space that still, when I see innovation happening, we have to think really, really clever and look at the root of what data is providing. To that platform, to that concept, to that design, to that robotic arm. How are you managing, your ERP systems, that sort of stuff. Like where's it coming from? And we have a, an, a great project that's looking at all the data sources in, with UBC and the MAN students, as an aside, but. I think that's what I get excited about when I get shown a project. I look to see, how are you powering this? how is it gonna have that impact? So ones that have been successful have had access to digesting important pieces of data and or, have harnessed open source in order to, have quality results.

Payam 17:30

It's basically the quality of the raw material you want to use. Right. Is that a fair, is that the fair way of putting it?

Amy Villis 17:37

It

Payam 17:38

Okay.

Amy Villis 17:38

it almost is like exactly how you build a house.

Payam 17:41

Yeah. that's, and that's very fair because I know we had a few podcasts ago, a few episodes ago, we had a guest on the podcast that, who they've gone through like the whole AI implementation, I think the platform is called Land Logic and tried to put together the land. They did the zoning regulations on a platform, which is easily accessible for people. And if I'm remembering correctly, they had to integrate. 800 different data sets with different qualities and different directions and dimensions to overlay on top of each other for them to be able to get something meaningful so that is their meaningful.

Amy Villis 18:15

that the lifestyle lifecycle management of those rules. So if you don't own them, how are you ensuring that they're updated and the quality rules? And then if you're insuring a project, how do you know if someone's used a software that has been based off the most recent, building codes or, regulatory side of stuff. So it, it is a bit of a challenge on that front. And I love the concept. the city of Vancouver has 650 PDFs. Of land use documents. So when you think about, and some of them are quite old, so when you, and conflicting, so when you think about sitting down to digest those, it's not easy. And even the city of Vancouver is making, incremental, progress towards that. But they're doing their due diligence to ensure that they're, digesting rules that are based on outcomes. And sometimes some of these rules haven't even been determined on outcomes. They've been determined on. political need or someone's gut feeling that we need a policy about X, Y, or Z. this whole regulatory digitization side of stuff really holds people to a different outcome account, which I find very interesting. And we're still early days with some of that stuff, but,

Payam 19:23

Yeah, that's good. Not to. Not to make this whole episode about data, but one of the things that came up on that previous episode we had on Land Logic was that the need for having, basically a single or a unique backbone and structure and data set for everyone to follow. And essentially thinking from a governmental level that this is a, it, I don't, probably it is not the right terminology, data or. Digital backbone infrastructure, like a highway, like a dam, like a electricity grid that everyone needs to be able to tap into and not have to reinvent their own. Is that a

Amy Villis 20:02

Oh yeah,

Payam 20:02

valid point?

Amy Villis 20:03

and I'm very proud of the province of BC. They are rolling out and have for a little while now they're building permit hub and it's still in its early days, but as maturity builds, they will be, having ways to, for constituents and for developers to plug into access. Tools. So there's tool equity across the province that we have the right data that has, you know, that. And then the NRC, they're the national Secretariat of the National Building Codes, and they're working their due diligence on getting those digital files sorted for that, which I think we'll see. great strides o over the next like couple years for sure.

Payam 20:41

Perfect. So I'm gonna switch gears a little bit. I wanna go to Lee and I wanna play the devil's advocate, Lee, here please. My roots are in construction. I'm in my forties and probably since I was like five. Years old that they can remember. I've been on construction sites in different capacities. My parents were in the business and for the longest time I was an advocate of why are we such. Late adopters of new technologies. I think that's the nice way of putting it into construction. And let's try this. Let's try that. Let's bring in new technology, let's bring in new software assistant, you name it. And I've been, I've forced myself throughout the years to learn them, trying to implement them. And as I've grown older, sometimes I'm like, you know what? Now I think I have a feeling that this is an industry. There's a reason that we're slow to adopt new things because some of the things we do have a long trajectory of results. Before you can tell if that was the right choice to make or not right. if I come to you from that perspective, and I, the reason I'm pointing this question to you is that you and I share the construction background. What, what do, where do you stand on that? do you think we're, as a, as an industry, is the construction industry right, to be slow to adopt new things and shining objects, or is that our downfall?

Leigh Newman 22:02

Yeah, it's a great question, Again, the construction industry is extremely rigid and they're used to their ways. And that's whether you're talking on, a private residential, a single house construction. If you get into subdivision, if you get into high rise multiunit, commercial, there's a lot of factors at play. and the, that ecosystem, flywheel, so to speak, is set in its ways, to adopt innovation. It, the construction industry has to. We're not able to keep up with the demand that we need to build today, let alone tomorrow. We don't have the skilled workforce to build what we need today, let alone tomorrow. And so if we don't adopt technology and innovation in the sector, the world is in a heap of trouble. The other issue though, with technology in the construction industry is if you're not offering, on a silver platter with a gift wrap. entire solution, right? For them to be able to put into their projects. That's where you're getting the roadblocks, right? So here's one, one solution that we're gonna give to you. Now, figure it out and add that into your process that you already have. So they haven't been quick to adopt based off of that. The other issue you have with a lot of. Innovative solutions is they are not necessarily from construction, right? If you're talking about a technology provider like 3D printing, for example, right? These are, mechanical engineers and tech people that have built this, amazing tool, but they don't come from construction. So trying to put that into a construction company's app and say, all right, here's this tool. Now figure it out and make it happen. that's the huge issue is, for the acceptance of it. And also here in Canada we are filled with innovators in tech, but we're also slow to adopt a lot of things, not just in construction. the it there, it's not one thing or another per se, but it's a combination of things that have made it slow for adoption.

Payam 23:47

But I guess if I want to play the other side, it has been my experience that the current ecosystem, which this word of ecosystem keeps coming up and I'm happy to talk about it, is not, I would go out on a limb and I'm gonna say it's not primed, it's not ready, and possibly not willing. To take on the amount of change that is required to introduce these new technologies. And, I wrote up an article a couple months ago on LinkedIn and on our blog there that it's like calling Elon Musk in the middle of night and asking him to. build you new 50 unique models of a Tesla. It needs to be fast, it needs to be cheap, it needs to be working exactly fine. The first time you run it, it needs to meet all the certifications. You don't know when you're gonna pick it up. You don't know when you're gonna pay for it. but you need to know it's that there is, it's ready and you want it. And I think that's how we've been dealing with a lot of new providers in the industry. And I'm happy that. what Amy is doing and their company and their organization is doing, it seems to be bridging that gap from the receiving end of it. I know Amy is, we're gonna ask Amy to not listen to that for a second. do you think the support is there?

Leigh Newman 24:56

So definitely for us. What we're doing would not be possible without collaboration and partnerships. We're not able to do all the heavy lifting on our own. proof of concepts is crucial, so finding stakeholders, government parties, developers and other groups that are willing to, take the chance so to speak, or actually, prove what the technology can be done using multiple types of innovation at the same time. doing these, we're calling'em proof of concepts, also collecting all of the data because we're in the business of data as well, right? Data is key. when you're going to try to a solution, you have to then validate that this solution works and here's all of the proof for it. building resiliency, sustainability, and to hit all of the targets, that the world is looking to hit. Across the board. again, the proof of concepts are crucial. There's tons of support here in Canada, from the government as well as a bunch of other nonprofits and organizations. for the wider adoption, you need to show first proof of concepts, right? So you start off small and then you can show how that's scalable. as far as the innovation port part of it, there's companies in the US and in Europe and in Asia and the Middle East. You know that are 3D printing full steam ahead using technology, and we're not talking about, bungalows, civil components, infrastructure, bridges, multi-units across the board. So it is being scaled and has the opportunity. But here in Canada we need to really, show them what can be done and back that up on the regulatory.

Payam 27:12

I'm hoping you guys are setting some examples with Amy's help and the organization and going forward. I wanna go to Stefan. I was doing my homework before the episode and trying to learn as much as I could about you guys. I read. Something that I believe you've mentioned at some point, I'm gonna paraphrase, but basically you, the statement was that there's a reason that cement based material continue to be a good. Way of building things and, more acceptable into the current codes and our current ecosystem. Again, walk us through that. I think I understand what you're talking about and, but I would like for you to explain more what does that mean and what you meant by that.

Stephan 27:53

Yeah. when you're introducing a new technology, one thing is that you have to find common ground, and yes, part of 3D printing and additive construction as an industry and as a tool in the industry is that it enables new materials and new approaches. But you have to start from a common place where people can understand what you're trying to say and what you're trying to do. as a first step, in order to eliminate a lot of the variables and a lot of the questions is that we try to build with a material that everybody understands and everybody's familiar with. So concrete as a material, cement-based materials have been around for over a hundred years. So everybody understands cement-based materials. when you're trying to do comparisons and you're trying to develop standards or at least the initial version of those standards, you have to base it on something you can actually measure and you have a history of. So when print, for example, the permitting for the building that we're. Currently building, we are using existing standards as therefore taking the material that we have and then building upon that and doing the calculations based on those initial numbers. So in the standards, so cement-based materials is not now the common material just because it is the go-to material. And that's what we wanna print with it is for now, the reason that we're trying to bridge that gap and build the industry with, to actually get the construction sector to understand that yes, this is a viable solution, this is a viable approach to dealing with that. And then as soon as they accept that and then we have the standards in place, at least initially with cement-based materials, then we can move away to more. Eco-friendly material, more sustainable materials, less, CO2 footprint on those materials that you consider the source, the application, and the end of life of material with the main focus being that you're sourcing that material from a local, source, not that you have to ship it from a different continent or different region or different, side of the sort of, country that you're living in.

Payam 29:49

Is it fair to say that's your way of easing this innovation into an existing ecosystem?

Stephan 29:55

Yeah. So there, there's, yeah. and what I would like to emphasize first is that construction sector is yes, old fashioned. It doesn't want to change, but you, what people have, what have to understand is that the construction sector bears a very heavy responsibility, when it comes to. Building. So most of the construction is deals with human lives and people living in those structures. when you bring, introduce a new technology, people are very hesitant only because the risk. Primarily for the risk. How can I ensure that this building, if I don't have the data and I don't have the history of this material, how can ensure that this building will stand for the next 10 or 15 years and withstand the elements and whatever's going on. and the reason why I went into the standards as a push, not because I love writing standards or help. Love chasing people down to actually do the work. it's, it was a, an effort that, that the committee understood that in order to get the construction sector to understand, in order to mitigate the risk, in order to ensure that the structures are safe, a standard has to be in place, in order to make that happen. and that is like you'd say, I have my tender documents. I have my standard by which I built by, now I can move over with that project. So it is, it's a matter of delivering safe structures. It's a matter of responsibility. It's a matter of being aware that it's not just a structure, that there's more to it to this structure, especially when you're talking civil or heavy civil, oil and gas. the, these type of

Payam 31:26

Yeah,

Stephan 31:27

were. the viability or

Payam 31:29

you're absolutely right. At the end of the day, even

Stephan 31:30

very high.

Payam 31:31

a hundred percent.

Stephan 31:33

so you have to, we are very, the construction sector is very old fashioned, but I would say for a reason, not because they don't wanna innovate, but because there's a lot of responsibility that

Payam 31:42

Amen. Amen. We're in the risk management business. Amen. Did you want to add to that?

Amy Villis 31:47

I do because, traditionally the way that we have innovated in any building space has been about putting the cost of that innovation onto the project. because. As the profit margins are so small and, shared with so many, players and actors in the construction, designed through development, we put those costs on and in a very unaffordable market, it became very prohibitive for trying anything new. And sure, some of the big players out there that have, secured pipelines and massive projects have, space to, work in innovation and put innovation dollars, but 1% of r and d dollars. That is just not enough comparison to what in other sectors. So when you look at, print and look at what they're doing and moving a novel. Novel to Canada. Let's be clear product that we need to go, okay, what support can we offer through this, the regulatory challenges and get to those standards in order to get a potential product that can offer something that's financially viable. so I think that's a big piece people can't forget is, you know, BC has 24,000 small construction developers. we don't have 24,000 big guys, and the big guys are proprietary. They don't wanna share. and I'm not gonna list any, but the, I think that is a key point here is that, margins are small. we put the cost of innovation traditionally onto project costs, which we can't do anymore because of affordability levels. So we're Peeling back, and I think where we're really innovating is bolt-ons. So taking traditional buildings and putting on bolt-on technologies in different areas more than we are a whole solution like these guys are working on. So just to add that point.

Payam 33:31

I love that and. I want to use that to go to the segway segue to the next topic, and I'm happy you brought it up because Stefan was saying, I believe we're in the risk management business. I'm as a construction person who runs construction projects. I have to think about a million different risks and we did a full episode on using new technologies in construction a while ago, which I suggest people go listen to and there's a whole checklist accompanying that episode. But I want to go to you, Amy, and I'm gonna. Again, play the devil's advocate because I also get pitched a lot of new technologies in construction in being good systems and material, and you and I have talked about this offline as well. if Lee were to come to me and pitch this product. Am I gonna get more comfort knowing that an organization like yours is doing due diligence, is providing support, or is that a total separate entity? And we have to treat this as a totally individual, separate startup.

Amy Villis 34:34

no, I think our methodology is consortiums, so we would like to see a partner like yourselves with, print. So we wouldn't just like it, we would, ask for it because what we look to do is invest in a whole concept with all of the ecosystem players. That are gonna support the positive outcome. and that's, where we're, we do an in-kind contribution of partners that can come on board and whether it's financial or time in lieu, it's like that contribution of a consortium of partners. So a hundred percent, I would say, if you guys came to me with your idea and concept on how to. economic development for the province around this product, and you guys were willing to do it together. It would be a definite support and win.

Payam 35:23

Okay, so I guess, let me flip that again. when someone comes to me and says, here's a new technology, here's a new system, here's a new way of doing things, and we've had quite a bit of those in the past decade or so. my first concern, and I apologize for to the panel, but my first concern is bluntly, are they gonna be around for five years? By the time my project is done. So that's one of the biggest challenges we've had is that we've used product, we've specked products, we've specked systems in the projects. And before you're even done with the project, that company doesn't exist anymore. And unfortunately, I'm sure everyone on the call here has examples of that they know of. And I'm just wondering how is, do you think. Do we need to rely on the government to come in and step in or do we want to pass that? Because to your point, and I'm pretty sure if you look online, you're gonna find supporting data, as you said, we have at there's 80% of the players in the construction and development market are less than five people, like five people, companies, that very small entities. It's too much risk for them to take on. how do you think we should be dealing with that issue or risk?

Amy Villis 36:28

that's a good question and it actually has a couple elements to it. I think. One from the organization producing the new technology needs to pick a bite sized approach, which I think like print is doing when you look at how they're entering into a market and doing a POC and looking at shoring up this. Sector as a whole, as a player. So they've picked a lane, so to speak. whereas what we see quite often in, software platforms, it's because they haven't got the data that you need to support it. Or in manufacturers, we've seen it, they've grown too quickly. They haven't taken the. steps to set up a positive business from a decision maker. If I am sitting there being pitched ideas and concepts and your boots on the ground thinking, is this going to support, that comes from, What outcome are you anticipating? And that's where I go to these bolt-ons. Like we're seeing more and more, traditional builders using robotics in the sense of measuring tools and sensors and things like that. Because the, that technology is sound, it's easy to implement, but, bringing on, a big different, I have the pleasure of working with the scientists out at UBC and the stuff that they're doing with full robotic, excavators and stuff like that. Super cool. But we're a little minute away from having that sort of investment. I don't know if I really answered that question

Payam 37:57

No, I love that answer because it actually lines up with exactly what, I think you and I even touched on it offline. In when we first met is that I personally think, and this could be my, construction bias view, is that there's only so much innovation that you can push into a single project before the project starts bursting out of, new uncertainties and new risk elements and, stuff like that. with that being said, and I know that we talked about print and how you guys are trying to. Empower the whole ecosystem with the training and certification and standards, which I believe to be the absolute right way to go. I wanna go to Lee, talk to me about this, record breaking comp, building that you're planning and when can we hopefully see it happen? And also walk us through the process. What were the steps? What did you have to overcome? And maybe just elaborate a little bit on this whole ecosystem effect that we just touched on.

Leigh Newman 38:54

Yeah, it's great questions. the project, is for the University of Windsor. It's a student housing project. It's three stories tall, located in Windsor, Ontario. We first engaged with the university. We have a four year research program with Dr. Daaz in their engineering lab working on standard development, structural testing, and all of the above, So that's how the relationship started in our extensive re r and d relationships with quite a few of the academias here in Canada. And then they ended up having a project that was originally supposed to be modular. This student housing project was gonna be a modular one with another stakeholder, a modular company, and it ended up not coming through. And then there was a perfect opportunity for it to be 3D printed. So we got engaged to do the engineering of this project first. and I guess, as I said, as I tell this story, I'll also talk about the struggles that we've had along this, which is a perfect example

Payam 39:45

Please.

Leigh Newman 39:46

adoption in con of innovation and construction is difficult. So we were the engineers for this project. We were not the architects. So the university already had a consultant and architect that was already assigned to this project and are not familiar with additive construction. So that's the first, first, struggle that we have is now dealing with an architect that might not be as progressive or isn't familiar with the technology and is used to working within a confined, box of set parameters. So that was the first one. Second is after doing the drawing packages, permitting, Regulatory, which we already know is a huge, issue globally right now in our entire platform. And what we've been working on the last three years order to get, standards and, wall certifications has been a priority for us. So when in we submitted, we weren't supposed to have a permit because it was for the university, but it was signed off on an engineer. But we put a permit in apparently because it was out of good faith. So permitting office. So we submitted our permit in December of 2024, January, 2025, and every month afterwards we would follow up and say, Hey, is there any feedback from the permitting office? do they have comments? Do they have concerns? And the architect's Nope, everything's fine. Everything's good. Then we were two days before we were supposed to break ground start construction. We were told by the permit office, they're like, oh my God, this is 3D printed. We have no idea what we're looking at. Okay, so there was a disconnect, obviously, between the architect as well as the regulatory body in Windsor. So then we applied for a part four alternative solution. So this is a pathway in Canada for the construction industry to allow the adoption of innovation, right? Because standard development, as we all know, and if you don't know, you're 10 to 15 years for standards to be created. for any new, methodology per se. So the part four, again, you can take, what we did is we compare our wall system to masonry construction. Concrete block. So all of the testing we've done is in comparison of our walls to masonry. So when you go for a part four, you're taking an already approved methodology of construction, and then you're then saying, Hey, here's my method, and it performs better, or the same as. X. So we did a part four alternative solution, and that was a success, but there was a lot of time it took for us to write it. It was, I don't know, 300 pages long, all of the research and data that we've done. So that was the struggle, being obviously from dealing with the new architect because the architect has to sign off on it. Then dealing with the permitting office was also an issue. Then when we start to construction, we had a GC for the project. So now you're really boots on the ground dealing with a traditional general contractor that does, not just little residential jobs and they're union affiliated and all of that. So having then that disconnect of how to read the drawings, what is the process we don't understand it is, are the walls gonna fall down and so forth. been the, some of the barriers that we've struggled along the way. already broken. Ground foundations are in, our printer is set up and we're printing now. We were supposed to start in May and we started on November 1st, so we're not gonna get much

Payam 42:55

You started, that's the part that's important. You started.

Leigh Newman 42:58

we started, and the really unique thing and groundbreaking that we're doing on this project is not only is it the largest 3D printed structural wall building in North America. But we're also doing all of the onsite QAQC for additional validation. So fiber optic cables in the print layers with, Queens University, sorry, with York University for lifecycle, performance and monitoring of the building. We have Queens University adding string gauges and more sensors and columns and floor systems. We have Windsor University doing all of the QA QC, so everything that we print, we're doing large scale destructive testing, prisms and cubes, and collecting all of that data. We're working with Geotech out of Ottawa, which is another, innovation and tech company in construction with their smart rock sensors to adopt them for 3D CP. So the level of qa QC is by far more extensive than any. Traditional construction, so to speak, that you would typically see. So yes, we're building this, and then we're gonna then prove and share all of that data. As additional validation for the industry to see, hey, this is what can be done, this is how it would perform. And then people, that in our ecosystem, once they see that, are then more accepting to say, okay, this is an acceptable method. then you get into building resiliency, sustainability. And it's a net zero building too, right? So there's a lot of unique, aspects that are going into this, project. So it's huge for us as a startup. it's massive for Canada. it'll literally put Canada almost to the front of the line for innovation and technology in this sector. the other thing I

Payam 44:36

that's awesome.

Leigh Newman 44:36

I wanted to mention earlier is 3D printing isn't the solution to the CRI housing crisis or construction crisis at all, but we're looking at it as a combination of innovation and technology, whether it's combining 3D printing for mass timber for concrete cores, or is it a combination of modular and 3D printing or renewable energy. And all of that. So just to be clear, we're not saying that we're the best kid on the block, and our solution is the only solution. We're the first ones to admit that. It's a combination of things that the industry needs in order to solve the problem we have.

Payam (2) 45:08

and I love that because we want to make sure that the solutions that we have are right used in the right context and in the right mix. And, I'm a big believer that we use to, we need to use these material technologies to their strengths, not to their weaknesses. So if this system works in a particular setting, let's just use that for the time being. Let's get it going. We don't need to have it all over the place. And, yeah. With that, I'll turn to Amy.

Amy Vilis 45:34

I just wanna say the cool thing about 3D printing is it is actually doing. Really integral things with BIM related design because it gets plugged right on into the printing system for accuracy. It reduces errors. So that proof, like getting folks to use bim, we all know that adoption is not quite there. So 3D printing, Yes, I agree. Like I, it, I'm like, we're not gonna start building three DB three full 3D printed homes at the moment. But what we are going to do is prove out when you use digital, files like BIM through there, you're gaining that accuracy. You're gaining the integrity, the validation, rapid prototyping, all of that stuff leads, and then it leads through to something really cool where you're. you're able to do offsite and onsite. You could use 3D printing for panels. we've been making concrete panels for a long time. You could do it, do the full home. You could do it onsite. So you're then dipping into onsite offsite. You're dipping into potential traditional builds where maybe you just print the core, maybe you print other elements. So you're dipping into all these different spaces and I think, yeah, sure. It's maybe not the full Monty, you're also, which I'm gonna, maybe this isn't my podcast, but I would segue,

Payam (2) 46:55

By

Amy Vilis 46:55

would say to step it afterwards where I would say the cool other thing is yes, you talked about concrete earlier because that meets some easy masonry code, but like you have wood fibers, you've got recycled plastics that can be used. So you're also like. Fully integrating different types of materials. So I think it's a really exciting space for tying in a lot of elements of innovation into it. And I think a lot of people need to get past this concept of, yes, oh, we're not gonna, we don't live in Arizona. We can't 3D print homes. No. But the technology can be harnessed for so much. And it's all about these machines, and it's all about giving them the right environment for the right time, the right moment, and the right product. and I left out the operation management side of a building as, we were talking about where you've got all those sensors contributing to the efficiencies of the building. So you just, it gets me excited because I can see how it's really integrating every, and no one else is doing that. In a traditional sense, modular builders are embedding a bunch of stuff, but this is, this has a whole material element to it. it is true innovation. So I, I love it.

Payam (2) 48:05

that angle. I love that angle, and I want to, I know we had previously touched on the fact that it's not just about concrete. You can add more material and I don't know, maybe Stefan, maybe you can walk us through that in terms of, because the biggest push these days, at least on concrete, is the. Carbon footprint the effect on the environment. And obviously I'm a big advocate and I've worked on mass timber jobs and when first time I heard about you guys and what you're doing, and we had a conversation you mentioned that, we could potentially be even using, the, basically what I believe John Rath one in one of our previous episodes called the Biomass, which is the leftovers from the ma timber And they have a lot of wood fiber that they can't. Make it into a panel, but they're still there. walk us through that a little bit.

Stephan (2) 48:51

Yeah, sure. with regards to material, the way Lee had mentioned is that we look at every project as a single entity, and that's where we start off, off. We don't start from the technology side or material side. We look at the project and when we look at the project, we just don't look at the scope of work, but we also look at our material suppliers and who is within that region and can that region supply. the materials that we wanna build with. So for example, in Maine, the University of Maine, and in Maine they're printing with wood only because wood is an abundant material within that region. So it makes no sense for us for them to actually get concrete or build concrete plants. Yes, they do have concrete plants, but not on a commercial scale. so the to, to it, it will have to make sense based on the ecosystem, the material, and the environment that you're working in. So each project is not, it has to be looked at individually and then you align the materials, the technologies and the sort of systems that will actually make that, project happen. but also you have to keep in mind that if you are using, for example, digital tools or construction digitization, that you see it. All through the process of construction and not just a single segment of that. So when you're looking into bim, yes, you're creating your BIM models and yes, you're tapping into the feed D printing, but how is that playing into my project plan? How is it that playing into my change orders, how is that playing into my bill of materials, my mobilization plan, and my logistics plan and my procurement plan? So if I'm digitizing only one section of my construction process, like supply chain, but then. falling short on having those benefits realized in my construction process. Then sort of benefits that I gained in digitizing or maximizing my supply chain has no effect on my end project. So we have to make sure that when we're doing things, that we see things through from beginning to end. And. End of life of project to make sure that we actually gave, maintain those benefits and those gains that are revised through that. and just to go to a previous topic, for example, like as an SME is taking a lot of responsibility and burden of the additive construction industry on its shoulders as SME and Print is not the only company who's doing that. They're doing most of the heavy lifting when it comes to actually making sure that this industry is moving forward. And our collaborations are not just within Canada, but So we're collaborating for, in the consortium, we are members of the NIST consortium in the US where we're trying to bring in. All the entities globally in order to have that single platform where we can actually share data and build that data, that viable data that could be used, that AI can be used to actually enable that, forward. So our collaborations, even though printer is a small company, but our reach is global and international, but also our, It, the work that we do within print has a ripple effect, not just in Canada, but globally. What is missing though, however, is the financial support in order to enable that. Because as a startup and many startups are facing this issue, it's not. The issue that we have in Canada and other places in the world is not that we are lacking the expertise or experience or the knowhow. It is, we don't, we are lacking the platform by which we can enable this to happen. when we are collaborating with NRC, with Nest and with the US Army Corps engineers and with other entities, we are making this happen and. Enabling different strategies and different ecosystems, to make additive construction as a viable tool. But also what is missing sometimes is that financial support. So we're not asking for a platform. We will create the platform. We're not asking for research and how to do the research or for expertise. It's already available, but what's missing is that support, financial support. Because ss, SMEs and small companies, they cannot carry that responsibility of a whole industry. Not just Canadian, but internationally, and then expect to actually deliver results and carry that forward. So there, there's a lot that goes into it, but when you're going back to the materials. It has to be spar project specific and what makes sense locally. Again, the idea is not to force a technology or material onto a problem. the issue is how do I enable the project and then how do I enable the sort of ecosystem around that project. So that, to that community around the project, am I creating a new, a workforce development program or a new business, for the local community? How can the local community sustain and gain from this project that we're building in order to make it through later on and build, sort of an ecosystem within that?

Payam (2) 53:21

Perfect. I love the fact that you mentioned fit, basically the project fit project and technology fit is very critical and you wanna make sure you get it right. and, I wanna start wrapping this up. I want to wrap this up and I'm gonna ask you guys to comment on individually. you made a point about not having standards and you, instead of waiting for someone else to deal with the problem, you decided to be part of the solution. If you were to pick another challenge that you as a company can deal with the next three to five years to say this is the next critical milestone, what would that be for you? I'll start with you, Stefan. Then I'll go to Lee

Stephan (2) 54:03

I

Payam (2) 54:03

all

Stephan (2) 54:03

dealing with all of them, so we're not

Payam (2) 54:06

at say at the same time.

Stephan (2) 54:07

we're doing material development. We're trying to be eco-friendly and find being more sustainable. We're trying to enable local communities and communities. we're trying to, enable the workforce development programs and curriculum development. there's a lot of, retiring workforce that has a lot of. Has knowledge that is gonna be disappearing with that e workforce that we need to grasp. And that knowledge is very critical for this, sustainment and continuation of, the construction sector. Not necessarily just for 3D printing, but as a construction sector as a whole. there is. is the labor force issues, the environmental issues. There is the, enablement in issues, project demand, the growing

Payam (2) 54:45

you have your hands full, then you know you're gonna be working.

Stephan (2) 54:48

and print. Again, it goes to a small company in Toronto

Payam (2) 54:52

on the whole thing. Hopefully not by yourself. Hopefully not alone. And hopefully not just by yourself though. would be good.

Stephan (2) 54:58

it is not a single effort. It is a global effort, but again, it is bare. It is the companies like Penter and others that are actually, making this happen.

Payam (2) 55:06

Perfect. So Aliya, I'm gonna ask you the same question with a small twist. What were, do you want to see changed in the next three to five years for companies like yours to flourish aside? Stefan talked about the financing, we talked about the ecosystem. what are some low hanging fruit? solid milestones that you see. You know what? If we get that, this would be such a huge benefit to us as an industry.

Leigh Newman (2) 55:33

I guess kind of a. selfish, but the wall certification that we just applied for our Provincial wall certification, our platform is for the world. It's not just for ourselves like the, our platform is to give access for other companies to be able to use this technology. So when we, our wall certification for our provincial, one can come in the spring and early summer next year. That then means that everybody in Ontario that works through our platform is able to go and get permits to use 3D printing. We know that the standards in regulatory, it's not coming. Three years is not enough. Give it 10, 12 years and there'll be standards. So we have a, we've mitigate the pathway for permitting, right? With the wall certification, all of the research and testing that we've done, we can then take, our goal is to take to all of the other provinces. Showing them all of our seismic testing in the West coast, which will have those results in Q1 of next year. So that's the biggest component for the West Coast to be able to use this system. And then showing them, here's all the results. Meet with the CBO, the chief building officers, meet with the mayors and say, would you be willing to, look at a permit using this platform? And then we can go to the developers saying, these municipalities have buy-in, and then it falls down to the construction company. So we're looking to foster the ecosystem for everyone. To expand. I think that the three year one realistically I think for me would be the material. so much room, for growth on the material development using recycled, recycled fibers from tires from a company in BC for example. the, geo polymers is another huge one. Graphing components. There's a bunch of stuff on the material side that I think that'll be. Something that'll really open up the doors, in that three year period.'cause the technology will already be adopted. It'll be usable here in Canada and it'll be proven so, but I really think the material is gonna be the, this deciding factor on how scalable it gets.

Payam (2) 57:26

Perfect. And I'm gonna, go to Amy. I wanna ask you the harder question, Amy, and possibly the unfair question. we went granular with Frontera. We talked about this topic we zoomed in. Let's zoom out. Let's zoom out. You have 12 investment cases, and my guess is that you probably know another, let's say on a scale of 10, 120 other instances of innovation, startups, ideas. Paint us the ideal vision for the next five years. If you were given a magic wand between all these ideas in these platforms, which are, what would be the ideal vision for the next five years?

Amy Vilis 58:09

I love that question because given our current climate with Build Canada homes and the work that our federal government is doing, I think it's more po, possible than just aspirational. within a five year period of time, I would love to see, I think. People getting out of their current silos of solutions and seeing their solutions in a fuller end-to-end impact so they know where to partner and plug in and have, operable systems. Because right now we still, it's traditionally a very solid siloed and fragment and fragmented and competitive environment in, building construction. So I would love to see, more, Opening of cupboards, whether it's data from a regulatory side and government side, to be able to feed the engines of, the success of platforms, and the interoperability of the data across from the machines, the robotics through to the ERP systems, because that's where I see the largest gain of, of efficiencies is not mega plants. It's not buying more robotics and you need more people to fix the robots that break it. I think it's honestly a data play for me where we finally get the levels of government opening the cupboards, allowing strong digitization, having GIS layers available. With all infrastructure type things.'cause we're not building with that infrastructure first time. I'll mention it today, but no matter what, if we're really gonna accomplish getting those, our deficit of homes built, I think it's that, it's those leading things. I'm not gonna pick a silver bullet of a technology. I'm gonna pick that. as I said, that data current that is going to feed that to, find the efficiencies to power the modern methods of construction. if I see a mega plant come out in the next few years, I'm gonna be very disappointed. I think that we need to diversify what we're doing, but we need to consider what is up and downstream of what we're doing and how we plug into it. And I wouldn't be me if I didn't say something about those pro proprietary software providers that have a linchpin on really expensive licenses that are forcing our industry into proprietary softwares and making it very difficult to play in a field of, BIM without it being mandated. So I would say it would be great if everyone continued to find strong opportunities, but always be mindful of how you plug into your upstream and downstream, providers and always consider the end-to-end housing production lifecycle.'cause as, Stephan mentioned, no matter what you look at your regional area, that is what's going to feed you. We build regionally, Second to that would be, I know some great regions doing some great things, developers, builders, build in regions. So look to the ones that are successful, see why they're successful, and then maybe replicate some of their models with some, of the innovation happening in those spaces. And, yeah, that would be my.

Payam (2) 1:01:25

that's a great answer. And I, the way I look at it is that as an industry we are at tapestry. Have different technologies that woven together very closely and we mo we move in a wave-like manner, if you may. We can't have too many high peaks without the rest of us coming up together. It doesn't last, it will come down very hard.

Amy Vilis 1:01:46

Yep.

Payam (2) 1:01:46

that's, I think that's the essence of what you are also saying that

Amy Vilis 1:01:49

I love it. I refer to the data tapestry where it's like those layers that come in and out and I would be remiss if I didn't, say that I do think, And I am concerned that the federal government isn't going to fund innovation, and housing. They talk about modern methods of construction at the moment. are they going to just feed those mega plants or those offsite manufacturers? I'm not seeing too favorably towards any innovation going into home building environment. so if my feature looks bleak, let me know if anyone's hiring, but like the reality is, I haven't, the budget came out. There's, it's a vague statement about modern methods of construction. and as long as it's just not going to those 4,000 unit pipeline providers that have plants that want to say that they wanna scale their plants, because I think there's a lot more to be done. And if we don't, from my lens, look at the digital current that's, feeding the backbone of these methods and provide opportunities for folks like print to get support to get that next step forward in order to, socialize and get successful projects proven in our ecosystem and get those Canadian solutions like to talk about Canada. Looking at Europe is fine and dandy, but we need Canadian solutions that, fit our climate fit, yeah. Fit the size of our country. And that goes back to what I see as a regional approach. And, Ontario's lovely. BC's, lovely. There's a lot more to offer in the country as well that needs support. yeah, that Canadian play would be part of it too.

Payam (2) 1:03:21

We, we are very happy to have you from BC support, startup from Toronto and Ontario here. that's also a good mix. any final thoughts, Amy, before we start wrapping this up?

Amy Vilis 1:03:32

no, it was just an honor. It's always great to speak to, people doing good work and moving the needle on what's possible in, housing production in Canada. And, these conversations really help that. So thank you for always, putting the time and to create these podcasts. I know they're not easy, and everyone's spending the time, but the labor of love is recognized and, there's always a good nugget to take away from these things. So thank you.

Payam (2) 1:03:56

that and yes, hopefully we can all move, help move the needle in the right direction. Lee, any parting thoughts from you?

Leigh Newman (2) 1:04:03

Yeah, no, I echo I echo the same sentiments. we're not gonna be able to push forward as a country if we don't do it together, especially in the construction industry. We need to all, unite as one and. My silver bullet, I guess for the three year after thinking about it be having the government really step up, and allow us to put these projects together and like a full lifecycle projects like what Amy is talking about. And I think that those are the real proof of concepts using multiple innovations and technologies that you can do per region with government support, can really end up making a difference, something for Canadians by Canadians for the world. So I wanna

Payam (2) 1:04:38

When can

Leigh Newman (2) 1:04:39

me on the show as well. it was a great opportunity.

Payam (2) 1:04:41

thank you and when can I come visit? I wanna see, I want to, I need to come and spend a day or two on your site over there.

Leigh Newman (2) 1:04:48

You can, you are welcome at any time. We have

Payam (2) 1:04:50

Okay,

Leigh Newman (2) 1:04:51

facility, in Toronto, and we have the site in Windsor, which will be getting shut down shortly for winter. But you're welcome at any time.

Payam (2) 1:04:58

so when you open it up, lemme know I'll be there. And Stefan, last but not least, any parting thoughts from you?

Stephan (2) 1:05:05

No, just emphasize the point that additive construction is just a tool in the industry. It's not there to like Lisa to be an, a complete solution that solves every problem. We are there to address pain points, existing pain points in the construction sector, from demand to labor shortages, to material to environmental impact, and workforce depletion or, Lack of the workforce in the industry. it is a tool, but again, not the only tool in the industry, but, as a tool that, that I take very personal. So I'm very, when it comes to construction, for me, it's just like my fourth child. for me, I take it very, seriously and I see the benefits out of it. It's just making sure that everybody else, when we present the solution is just not for the sake of a short term, quick win type thing, but in order to actually leave, a lasting impression that this is a viable tool and it comes from a solid foundation with solid background, with solid people that are in the industry to move it forward.

Payam (2) 1:05:59

Perfect. That's, that, that has a potential of leaving a lasting legacy, which is, the secret calling to all of us. Thank you everyone. It was a pleasure to have you here and, wish you the best of luck. Hopefully in, in a year or two we can do another round of this, interview and you can share new innovations and lessons learned from this current project. you

Amy Vilis 1:06:19

Awesome.

Stephan (2) 1:06:20

Thank you.

Leigh Newman (2) 1:06:20

much.

Amy Vilis 1:06:21

Yeah. Thanks. Thanks so much. I appreciate it.