Ep. 83 - How to Reclaim Your Worth and Resilience with Susanna Johnson, LCSW

Trauma has a way of sneaking into your identity until “what happened to me” turns into “this is who I am.” Keila Aldea sits down with Susanna Johnson, a licensed mental health clinician at McLean Hospital, to name that pattern out loud and lay out a different path: one where your experiences matter, but they never get to decide your worth. 

We talk about trauma-informed therapy through a practical lens, including TF-CBT, CBT, and DBT skills that help women and teen girls rebuild resilience. Susanna breaks down why dialectics can be a game changer for PTSD recovery and self-esteem: you can be hurt and still be powerful. We also dig into the “two C’s” trauma often steals control and choice and how healing can start with small decisions, clear boundaries, and honest language that replaces shame with reality. 

Self-forgiveness comes up in a big way, especially the brutal inner questions many survivors carry: Why didn’t I stop it? Why did I stay? Susanna explains how to separate behavior from identity, stop judging the past with today’s information, and begin finding “glimmers,” the small moments of strength inside your story. If therapy feels intimidating, we also share how to take the first step, why therapist fit matters, and what to do if you don’t feel safe or seen. 

If you’re ready to stop living as “broken” and start rebuilding your confidence one small win at a time, press play. Subscribe, share this with a woman who needs it, and leave a review to help more women find trauma healing support that actually works.

Connect with Susannah: sjohnsontherapyprac@gmail.com I IG@sunshinewithsuze 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Hello and welcome to the She Can Heal Podcast, a podcast aimed at helping women heal and thrive emotionally, physically, and spiritually. I am your host, Kayla El Dia. I'm a licensed therapist and a self-care advocate that is passionate about helping women take back their power and help them realize they're important, worthy, and deserve the care and attention they give to those they love most in their lives. This show is meant to help inspire you on your healing journey, no matter if you're in the discovery phase and are just realizing that you have unhealed wounds, habits, and mindsets that are keeping

Welcome And Host Mission

SPEAKER_01 0:41

you stuck in your life, or you've been on this journey for a while and are looking for inspiration, encouragement, andor new tools to help you continue on your healing journey. My goal is to help you realize that you can heal from all that life has thrown at you and are capable of evolving into your healthiest and happiest version. On this show, I will provide you with resources, tools, and insights to help you heal and thrive emotionally, physically, and spiritually because you deserve all of that. So if you're ready to ditch the guilt and make yourself a priority, then you're in the right place. Because the truth is that you can't pour from an empty cup, even though most of us do this on a regular, and we really need to stop that nonsense. So get ready to be inspired, motivated, and equipped to truly thrive. Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Shakin Hill Podcast. In today's episode, I am sitting down with Susanna Johnson, who is a licensed mental health clinician, and we're gonna be discussing the radical shift from being defined by your trauma to recognizing your inherent value. We're gonna explore why the world often gets women's worth wrong and how to start seeing yourself as everything right now and start harnessing your inner strength today. And Susanna's a licensed therapist working at McLean Hospital, a psychiatric facility in Massachusetts. She's

Guest Intro And Trauma Focus

SPEAKER_01 2:04

passionate about working with teen girls and women who have been impacted by trauma. While trained as a clinical social worker, Susanna is passionate about macro level change and works outside of her role as a therapist to advocate for laws and policies around women's rights and health. I hope that you enjoyed today's conversation with Susanna. It is a great conversation about how trauma is only what happens to us, but really it's up to us to do the things we need to do in order to get through and to get to the other side and really understand that only because something happens to us doesn't mean that it makes us unworthy. It means that we're broken. I think that you're gonna get a lot of value from today's episode. So let's get into it. Well, welcome, Susanna. I'm so excited to be talking to you today, therapist to therapist, because I think that's exciting. And I really just loved what you entered into your application, and I feel so excited to just dive into all those things. So thank you again for being here. Thank you. I'm so excited. Awesome, awesome. So let's start with you just introducing yourself and telling us about your work as a therapist, working with women's mental health and just the work that you do that you're so passionate about.

SPEAKER_02 3:22

Yeah, absolutely. So um I live in Boston, Massachusetts, and I work for McLean Hospital. Um, and so I work as a child and adolescent therapist, and I think my second love after kiddos is adult women, working with adult women. Um, and I'm pretty blessed because much of the time in my work I'm working with little guys, but then the other majority I'm working with both young adult women and also teenage women um who have been impacted by all sorts of different kinds of trauma. So that's kind of my wheelhouse. I'm a trauma therapist. And yeah, it's a little bit about the background.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah. So I'm curious as a therapist, like what is your therapy modalities that you usually use for working with trauma?

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Yeah, for sure. So I feel like it changes day to day or even like session to session. Um, but I believe the ones that I use the most are I'm certified in TFCBT, so trauma-informed cognitive behavior therapy. Um so I'm using that with a lot of my teens. Um, and

Modalities For Treating Trauma

SPEAKER_02 4:42

then I would say that the other biggest ones are a lot of CBT, which I think is really helpful for those who have been impacted by trauma, just in terms of rethinking about what their trauma means and how it impacts them. Um, and then I would say the third one I use a lot is dialectical behavior therapy, so DBT, in terms of having to sit and kind of radically accept our traumas. You know, we can't change them, unfortunately. And we can make the choice to either kind of suffer or radically accept. And so I would say that's the third one that I use a lot of.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Okay. Yeah. I'm also trained in TFCBT and I also love CPT and DBT. Have you ever thought of getting trained or are you interested at all in EMDR?

SPEAKER_02 5:33

So interesting that you asked that this week because um I have two very good friends who are also therapists, and they are both trained in EMDR, and we have a lot of conversations about it. I think yes, someday soon I will be. Yeah, no, definitely someday for sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Okay. All right. I recommend it. I am. Are you trained? I am trained, almost certified. Um, and if afterwards I can give you some resources that I went through that made it so much more affordable. Sure. Yes, always, always helpful. Yeah. All right. So let's start off with uh my first question, which is one of the areas that stood out to me as a therapist who also works with women with experience that experience trauma is the power of resilience that you um shared in your application, which I think that is so key. Can you talk about how you help women build resilience after they've experienced trauma in their lives?

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Yeah. So I would say the first thing that kind of comes to my mind is they actually have to build the resilience, right?

Building Resilience With Choice

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Um, and I'm guiding them on that journey, and really it comes from the inside of them. So I think one of the ways that I helps them kind of start walking that path to resilience is really thinking about the fact that they have a choice in terms of how they both interpret and kind of interact with their trauma. Um, so once we have been traumatized or we have gone through a traumatic event or multiple, we can all agree that rightly so, we're going to feel a lot of emotions. And we actually have a choice of how we interact with those emotions. So I think one thing that I am doing a lot with the women and teens that I work with is helping them kind of come from a victim modality or whatever word they want to use to choose to describe themselves after their trauma, to I actually have a choice to be strong. And that takes a lot of hard work. So often it is the power of dialectics. So two things that seem opposite at the same time can exist. So I was abused and I can still be strong, or you know, I was attacked and I can still fight. So I think the power of dialectics and kind of reframing some of the black and white thinking that comes from trauma is often a way that we start to build resilience and just finding opportunities for control and choice in every single day situations, because often control and choice are the two C's. I call them the two C culprits, right? Often control is taken away from us when we're traumatized, and often choice is taken away from us when we're traumatized. So also finding little moments in the day that my girls and women can find control and choice, even if it's I'm gonna choose to have Cheerios for breakfast, or you know, I'm gonna set a boundary with this person. So I think that also helps kind of start the pathway to resilience as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

Yeah, I think that is so powerful what you were just talking about, because I also use that a lot in my own therapy sessions, which is helping clients understand that yeah, you can have both, right? And I think that's important for our audience to really like understand that the way you put it is very powerful, right? I can be right, I could have experienced this traumatic experience, and I can also choose, right, to think differently. So that is very different. Absolutely. How do you think are there any challenges that you experience when you're doing this type of work with your clients?

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think a lot of it uh depends on uh what um what kind of period of time they're coming to me in. So, you know, if their trauma just happened a week ago, which sometimes is the case, they are likely not ready to do some of the work, understandably so, that someone who's coming to my office, you know, a year or two after trauma is. But I think either way, some of the challenges is that with trauma, we know as therapists that it's so deeply ingrained in our identity and kind of how we view ourselves often. So I think one big challenge is having to kind of recreate an identity, which is not something that happens overnight, right? It takes a lot of work and a lot of hard work. So I think one challenge is just time, right? I think the other challenge is I work with individuals who have often chronic and complex trauma. And unfortunately, you know, the more that you have been hurt and the more that you have had a wound happen to you, the harder it is to kind of unravel some of those layers. And that's not to say that people who have only had one trauma have it easy. That's certainly not the case. It's just that with complex and chronic trauma, the brain has actually changed, right? Even with one trauma, it's changed. And so, you know, the time that it takes to kind of rewire some of those circuits and start to

The Hard Parts Of Trauma Work

SPEAKER_02 11:17

think about ourselves and look at ourselves differently takes time.

unknown 11:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

And then I think the third trauma, I mean the third trauma, the third challenge is um it's really hard to do trauma work. Um, and you know, to have to open up about something so painful, so scary, so sad, so horrifying, all of the words, it's hard. And sometimes people don't want to talk about it. And so there are sessions where you know, we don't get anywhere, we just sit, and that's okay, you know, one step at a time. But that definitely is a challenge, is you know, just that it's hard to talk about hard things.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

It absolutely is, and I think it's also very heavy work for us to carry. So I know I'm I'm not sure if there's any times where you are doing the work, and like what are you experiencing any times that you've experienced? Because I know like there's so many times. I remember this one case very, very clearly. This was like years ago, and it was a young girl, she was about 11 years old, and she came to me for sexual abuse, and her mom was not like she didn't believe her, so she really invalidated her experiences and what she felt. And so this girl was self-harming. And I remember she comes into my office one day, and I believe the school disclosed to me that you know she had um self-harmed, and she's gonna see you today. And when this little girl came into my office and we sh we talked about it, she she pulled her her sleeve, and this girl had cuts from her wrist to her to her um elbow. And in that moment, I I literally had to walk away. I was like, give me one second. I literally, I literally went into a colleague's office and I literally just cried because it was just overwhelming. And of course, I was able to get, you know, settle myself and come back to the session. But I'm wondering, you know, what have you experienced, or what do you feel like your experience has been lurking with trauma and how do you handle that?

SPEAKER_02 13:24

Yeah. And I think this is kind of the nature of being a therapist. Like we come into this work, many of us, I would argue the majority of us, because we are kind and compassionate and emotional ourselves

Therapist Emotions And Self Care

SPEAKER_02 13:38

as our all beings. And it is hard to have to find the balance between listening and holding somebody else's pain and also holding our own, right? Um it hurts when someone that is in our office is hurting, right? We feel that. And I think the other side of it is also that many of us, and I'm very open and honest about the reasons I became a therapist, I have my own trauma history. It is hard sometimes to separate those two things that there is a person in front of me who has been impacted by trauma. I have also been impacted by trauma. And how do I separate the two and show up for this person who needs me and then later on show up for myself because I need me, right? And so I think often it's exactly what you kind of framed. It's taking a break and saying, hey, you know what? I actually need to attend to an emotion right now. I think the important thing is to help people understand that that is not a reaction of shame or of judgment. We're not saying, I actually can't handle that. Please excuse yourself. It's saying, I hurt when you hurt. And I'm a human too. And then I think just having genuine open conversations about, you know, when you showed me, I'm just using your case as an example, but when you showed me your arm, I hurt. I don't want you to have to do that to yourself, right? And clearly there is a reason you feel like you have to, and my heart hurts for you. Um, so yeah, we do have to take care of ourselves. Self-care, I think, is like, you know, a phrase that people are like, ooh, self-care. And like, no, it is real. It is really, really real in our job. So often just, you know, turning and saying, Woo, that was a hard thing to see, my friend. Or, oh my gosh, what got you to a place where you feel like you have to do this to yourself? And often, you know, when we help kids regulate or adults regulate, we're regulating ourselves, and they're not gonna regulate if we're not regulated, right? So it's hard work and it can happen. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:18

It reminds me of I don't know if you're familiar with the circle of security framework. No, so it is a parenting program that is attachment-based. And so there is a theme that is called Being With. I'm sure you probably have heard of Being With. Yes. And so I'm I'm doing a group right now, and this came up as the topic that I'm gonna be talking about next, which came at the perfect time because I had a client in my office, she's a teenager, and she did not want to touch any of her stuff, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:49

And in that moment, right, we do get levels. I mean, we're human people, we're human.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Yes, we're trained to be therapists, but at the end of the day, we are human beings, and of course, there was some frustration that came up for me because you're right, you're in my office. This is what we need to work on, and then I remembered that concept of being with, and so in that moment, kind of what we're talking about is you know, being with someone in their other stuff, right? In their pain, in their happiness. So sometimes that can be really difficult, but I agree. I think naming it and really being human is important because that's because I think that helps clients so much to know like you're not a statue there, or you're making these faces, like you're grossed out by what I'm saying. I'm saying like what you just said. Oof, I felt it right here.

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Like, yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think that like what's so important about what you just said is like when we are with, we aren't, I think, controlling, like we're not forcing a conversation before it's ready to be had, which I think is important in any kind of therapy, but especially with trauma, if you think about how much force has often happened in trauma. So if we have to say, nope, you have to tell me right now, we're not gonna get anywhere, right? We're just re-traumatizing them. But if we actually sit and say, either, you know, just with silence or with our words, like, I'm here when you're ready, you can put the first foot forward. I think healing actually happens in those smaller moments. So, really important. I love that language of being with.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

I have something came up from my to my mind, and I was like, it left, but it was okay when that happens. Maybe I'll come back. Maybe, maybe it will come back. Maybe okay. So let's move on. I know that this is heavy, so sometimes we gotta take a little deep breath. And let's shift gears now because something that you wrote in your application that really stood out to me, which I think is really important for us to talk about because I know that when it comes to women specifically who have gone through traumatic events, that can really like break them down, their self-confidence can be completely gone. And so it's really the work is really helping them to rebuild that. So you work with women and girls who feel like they are quote unquote nothing, but are actually everything. Can you explain what that shift is?

SPEAKER_02 19:31

Yeah, absolutely. So if we think about trauma, I often think about my teens and women who have been abused in some way and have had like a lot of power taken from them. And I think unfortunately, what we know about abuse in particular as trauma is that often the person who is doing the abusing is doing something that makes us feel worthless, out of control, like we're nothing. And so I think the moment makes us feel like that. And then they think often the messages that we get after a trauma, whether they're internal from ourselves or external from the people around us or even the world, is often mimicking this message of you're weak. How did you let that happen to you? What were you thinking? Like, why didn't

From Feeling Nothing To Everything

SPEAKER_02 20:27

you say no? Why didn't you stop it? Right. And so that's really gonna take your toll to our self-confidence and be like, gee, I really am dusting, right? If I couldn't stop this, if I couldn't say no. And I literally look at some of my teenagers sometimes, and even my women, and I say, Of course you couldn't say no, ma'am, right? You were completely helpless. And so I think it is so natural to feel like we are nothing. And sometimes what I do with my teens, especially, who haven't kind of formed their identity as much as you know, some of my adult women have, is I say, put your hand on your heart and I say, What do you feel? And they often say, Well, I feel my heart. And I say, So are you dead? And they're like, No. And I'm like, Okay, guess you're something then. And they'll kind of like giggle. That's simple, right? Yeah. And sometimes that's what it is. It's like clearly we're not nothing if we're alive, right? And sometimes the work is just redefining what it means to be alive. And so then I'll say, like, you know, tell me about what you did today. And they'll say, I went to school if it's one of my teens, or, you know, I played with my friends, or, you know, if it's one of my older women and they're going to work, it's I went to work. And I say, Do you think that if we were nothing, we would have the ability to get out of bed? Do you think we would have the ability to get on a school bus and go to school and go to our classes? And the answer is no, right? And I think when you help a woman or a girl or really whoever it is realize that being something isn't always like these monumental things, that it's just like the small steps we take every day. There's a lot of change that happens. I had a parent in my office yesterday catching me up on her teenage daughter, who unfortunately has had multiple incidents of sexual abuse. And she said, you know, I'll call her Sarah. She said, Sarah has a new boyfriend. And Sarah told this boyfriend the other day that something that he did wasn't okay. She said, you know, that really didn't sit right with me when you did that. And I actually need something different. And I got teary in the moment because I feel like my voice is catching now, because that's not something she was able to do, you know, a couple of months ago. And even being able to say, I deserve X after you feel like you deserve zero, that's a step, and that's the beauty of the work. Like, even if we're not, you know, at the point where we can say, like, you know, I'm the most confident woman, and look how beautiful I am. And I love myself. If we're able to say, nope, I actually don't appreciate it when you treat me that way, and I need this instead. That's not nothing. That is a huge something, right? What power, what confidence, what resilience is in you if you are able to say those things, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:56

So, yeah, yeah. Another thing that I think is very difficult that I've been experienced working with clients, and I wanted to get your perspective on this and the and how you handle this in your work with women and girls is self-forgiveness. Right? It's like, I was such an idiot. Why didn't why did I stay with him for so long? Or why did I do this? Why didn't I listen to myself? So I know, and that's another really difficult aspect that I know for many women, right? When they are in these situations. Tell me about like how you usually work with this when you work with your clients.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Yeah, so I think that this goes back to the power of dialectics, right? We can make a choice that we know wasn't our most wise mind choice and still be a good person, right? I've made mistakes, I've put myself in situations that weren't the right situations for me to be in, right? And I'm not an idiot, I'm a human, right? We all do things that go against our values sometimes. We all do things that we are in, maybe emotion mind versus wise mind, and you can still forgive yourself. Like I made a mistake doesn't equal, I don't deserve forgiveness. So I think the power of dialectics is really important here. And personally, one of the things I believe as a therapist and just as a human being in general, is our behaviors are separate

Self Forgiveness After Trauma

SPEAKER_02 25:35

from who we are as a person, right? So just because we are somebody who struggles with alcoholism doesn't mean that that is our entire being, right? That might be the being that shows up the most prominent and the most strong at times, unfortunately. And we're still a father, or we're still a brother, or we're still a friend. And I think that this goes back to trauma too, is yes, I went home with that person, and I can still forgive myself. And honestly, like I would argue, like, if a kid told me, or even a woman said, Hey, I made a mistake by going home with that person, I'd argue that perhaps it was not a mistake because in that moment you thought things would be okay, right? And when they didn't turn okay, that actually wasn't a reflection of you making a choice to go home with that person. It was a reflection of that person choosing to do something unsafe to you. Um, and so yes, you made a behavior of going home with someone, but unless you knew somewhere in your brain that that wasn't the most effective choice to make, I don't know if it was a mistake. I think it was just you being a teenager and wanting to go hook up with somebody. That's actually a very normal thing for a teenager to want to do. What's not normal is to expect that we know or we, I guess what I'm trying to say is what's not normal is for us to expect that we can tell the future, right? How would you know that if you go on a date with your high school boyfriend that he's going to abuse you? Or how would you know that if you're going home with a man from a bar, even if that might not be the safest choice, how would you know that that's going to lead to acts? And if it does lead to acts, that's on him or whoever's doing the abusing. That's not because you went home with him. It's because you went home with him and then he chose to do something, or whoever the perpetrator is.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

I think that's the power of therapy, right? To really work with someone that can have that lens for you. Because sometimes I think it's clients almost need permission to believe that, right? They need permission that it's okay for me to say like it wasn't my fault. I think that is like the powerful impact of being in a safe space with someone that is actually seeing you for just who you are, versus talking to friends, family who are literally making you feel like it was your fault.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Yeah, the world too. I mean, I think so much of this is I do not think that trauma is a beautiful thing. I think beautiful things can come from trauma. And I continuously pray for the day where our world shifts their lens of how we view people who have been impacted by trauma. Because I think the world mimics messages of you're bad, you're dirty, you're worthless, you're powerless. And of course, women and girls, or whoever is impacted by trauma, men too are gonna absorb these messages when they're all around us. But I think if the world starts to shift its messaging around trauma and saying, you can still be powerful, you can and deserve forgiveness. We love you, you're whole, you're beautiful. There's gonna be some shift around how we all think about it. And it's a slow process. It's a slow process. We've made steps and it's a slow process. That's the dialectic.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Yeah. I mean, I can think of just myself before before doing this work, thinking like, it's normal to call myself, I'm just broken, right? We're just broken. You know, it was just like this normal, I'm broken. I just need to be fixed. Um, you know, so that's that different mindset perspective lens that we can we can create by working with someone that can really help us see it that way. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Let's see. The next question I have is choosing how to react to trauma is a body mental task. Is your clinical in your clinical experience what is the first step a woman can take to move from feeling defined by her past to using it as a foundation for her future?

SPEAKER_02 30:42

I think this goes back to being able when you have done a lot of work. I think this is maybe one of the last pieces of the work, is to take what you have learned about your experiences and find the language I heard the other day that I really like is find the moments of glimmer, meaning like find any piece of your story that is resilient or strong or powerful, and there's many in them, I would argue, for everyone. And how do I take that and then recreate who I want to be because of those? Yes, I was impacted by trauma, and that trauma brought me, you know, the power of meditation. And so now I want to be someone who is mindful and meditates and takes care of themselves and their body. And I think that can then reshift who we see ourselves. You know, yes, I was impacted by trauma. And look how powerful and how much grace and strength I have showing up and talking about that each week. How do I take the lessons that I have learned about how strong I am and then take those and apply them to my everyday

Turning Pain Into Future Foundation

SPEAKER_02 32:04

life? So I do think that this is a last piece of the work or one of the last pieces because, you know, day one of trauma therapy, we're really not gonna get, you know, I really believe I'm a really strong woman. And you know what? I'm okay. We're not gonna get that, right? Um and or I shouldn't say never. I think that there are some people who have been impacted by trauma and realize for whatever reason that there's lessons to take from it and they're okay and they're strong and et cetera, et cetera. But especially with teenagers who I'm working with, we're not gonna get that the first day. But once they've done their trauma narrative, probably. Um, or even as they learn some kind of psychoeducation about trauma. I mean, I had a kid in my office a couple of months ago who really felt broken. And that was something, you know, that they said about themselves. And then as we started doing psychoeducation in TFCBT and she started to learn about the rates of sexual abuse and how it impacts people and how it can show up in our behaviors, she started to have this shift of like, oh my gosh, it makes so much sense that this is who I am. And I actually don't have to choose to react to my symptoms with fear. I can react to them with strength and empowerment. And so, you know, when I have a flashback, I don't have to cower, I don't have to self-harm, I don't have to, you know, skip school. I can actually choose how I relate to that flashback with strengths, and I can still go to school or I can still set a boundary. So, you know, it is possible to happen at the beginning, and I think the true identity shift starts to happen towards towards the end.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

Yeah. Do you have any stories of clients that you have seen that through that journey and make it to the other ends? Any that you would like to share?

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, so I used to work in a piece of Massachusetts, in a town of Massachusetts called Brockton. And Brockton is a community, for those listeners who might not know, that is largely an immigrant population. And when I was working there, I was working with many teenagers and young moms in their 20s and 30s who had been impacted by some kind of trauma, often sexual violence, on um their journey from whatever country they were immigrating from to America. And I think one of the biggest shifts that I saw was that they really not only changed their kind of perception of who they were as um somebody who had been impacted by trauma, but also who they were as like an immigrant. And often they came and said, clearly I'm broken. I had to leave my country. I wasn't even able to survive in my country, right? And so clearly I'm powerless. Then this terrible thing happened to me during my immigration process. So now I'm even more powerless. And as we started to do trauma work, I think their shift from not only who they were as a woman who had been impacted by trauma, but also who they were as an immigrant and the importance that that piece of them played in their story. They were actually able to shift from I'm an immigrant, I'm an abused immigrant, to I'm an immigrant who has been impacted by abuse and what strength comes from that. And I once had a woman look at me and say, I'm so excited to tell my girls and my granddaughters about my story because it will teach them the lessons that they need to hold for the rest of their lives, how strong we are, the power of starting over, the power of recognizing that the reason that we actually had to come to this country wasn't because we're broken and we're not strong and couldn't survive. It's because actually our country has some pretty serious issues that are not a reflection of our like faults. It's a systemic thing, right? Nobody should have to leave their country. Um and so to watch people be able to get to that point where they said, I never want to have to utter this story to I cannot wait to tell my girls

Finding Therapy And Trusting Fit

SPEAKER_02 36:47

this story because I realize how much strength there is in it. That's a pretty beautiful thing. And I think that woman in particular um sticks with me the most. Just that transformation of I'm broken, I'm an immigrant, I'm an abused immigrant to I literally can't wait to tell my kiddos when they grow up my story because there's so much strength and resilience in it. And that's what we hope for.

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Yeah. Is that they can find the power. Yeah, absolutely. Because I can only imagine how much shame you know people carry when they've gone through whatever they've gone through. So for this um individual to come to the other side and say, like, I can't wait to share my story of strength versus I'm not telling anybody this because this is this is like I'm so ashamed by what I had to go through. It's it's such a power shift, powerful shift. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. That was very powerful to hear. All right. So for the women listening who want to start harnessing their own inner strength today, or I even say, you know, before I think about the woman who, you know, feels broken, the woman who feels that she'll never be confident, she'll never feel safe within herself. And we only and what we know is that if you take that first step, that first step towards healing, working with someone, you know, doing some type of work, but maybe she is scared. Maybe she, because I think in a lot of families, we hear different things that therapy is not, right? Therapy is not acceptable, right? If you go to therapy, there's something really wrong with you. I can't even say weak. Yeah, there's like so all these. So if if there's a listener out there who feels like, this sounds amazing, but I'm scared, I don't even know how to start. Um, what would you like? What advice would you have for her?

SPEAKER_02 38:50

I mean, first I just want to say, I see you, I love you, I believe in you, right? I think those things, those messages are really powerful for people to hear. And like, even if other people don't see you, believe in you, love you. I think therapy is a place where hopefully, if we're doing our jobs right, we're embodying those things. So, period. Like, I see you, I hear you, I believe you, I love you, right? I think a first step don't focus on what you are going to have to do once you are in the room. Focus on getting yourself to the room and give yourself grace because I've had kids who say, Oh my gosh, when I get into that room, I'm gonna have to talk about X, Y, and Z. They try to hold themselves to that expectation, they're not yet ready able to do it because who would be? It's day one of therapy, right? Um, and give yourself grace for just being able to walk through the door of a therapist's office. If you sit down on the couch and you want to tell your whole story, great. If you want to sit down on the couch and tell three words of your story, great. Just get yourself to the couch and whatever you're able to do will come naturally. And your speed in therapy is not comparable to somebody else's speed. It could take one woman five months and it could take another woman five years. Maybe not that long. We hope there's some change before five years. Um, but the point is, is I guess the advice is just give yourself grace, give yourself time, and applaud yourself for even showing up because that actually is the hardest part.

unknown 40:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

I hope, I hope that if someone's out there that's listening, that this is helpful to them in taking that first step. Because you're right, they that first step, that first phone call, you know, is probably the most powerful. And I remember another thing that like comes to me when I think about therapy is making sure that you work with someone who's really trauma-informed. Because unfortunately, there are, you know, bad eggs out there. And that's the hard part of you know therapy as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I think goodness of fit is really important to tune into, especially if you are doing trauma work. You want to be able to make sure that the person that you're gonna sit with in the heaviness is someone that you feel comfortable with and can trust. Because if you do not trust your therapist, you will not be able to do the work. Or at least you will not be able to do the work at the extent to which you deserve to do the work. And, you know, it can take time, but yes, please make sure that the therapist you're seeing is trained and trauma informed and is somebody who makes you feel seen and comfortable, or else, you know, you're kind of setting yourself up for maybe not being able to make as much progress as you want to and as you deserve to have. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:23

Yeah. I think that's important because I heard, I'm not sure where I heard this once, but it was someone who said, you know, I've been seeing my therapist for I don't know, three sessions, and I just don't feel a connection. Like, I just don't feel like comfortable. And the question was like, should I, I think it might have been on threads or something, but she said, should I give it, should I give it one more, one more chance, or should I just, you know, like stop, you know? And that's important for people to understand that if you don't feel comfortable, if you don't feel this is the right fit for you, don't keep going, you know. Um you should be able to, you know, go out there and find someone that is going to be the person you feel comfortable with sharing your story with and feel safe.

SPEAKER_02 43:10

Yep, absolutely. And I mean, there are things like I have kids look at me and say, like, I don't like that you like make me talk about my feelings. And I say, Well, you're probably not gonna like any therapist then because that's our job, right? So there are times where, you know, if it's something that the therapist could change, like I don't like when you use a loud voice because that scares me. That's actually something I can change. Like, you know, give that person another chance. But if there's just like a genuine kind of there's nothing you could change to make me feel comfortable or feel more at ease or more seen, then that's probably your sign, just like you said that no, you don't want to give it another chance. You have given it a chance and it's not fitting.

SPEAKER_01 43:59

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's that's I mean, I think of my own journey going into therapy. The first time that I went to therapy, uh, I experienced just that. It was this therapy. She was nice and everything, but she was just not giving me what I needed. And I gave her like I think to the by the third session, I just did not feel connected. And I just again, I didn't feel that she was just giving me what I needed. And that's when I decided, all right, let me go and find someone else. And now I've been with my current therapist for over five years.

SPEAKER_02 44:32

So love that for you. That's so awesome. And I think what's important for people to understand is we don't take it personally. If your therapist is doing their job, they will not take it personally. I've had people come to my office and say, you're not the right fit for me. And that's okay. I'm not going to be the right fit for everyone. Just like you're not going to be the right fit for everyone, right? And you have the power to choose. We will not take it personally. And like, what like good for you for being able to say, like, nope, this isn't right. And I'm going to do something different. Um, especially if you have been impacted by trauma, because that actually is exercising choice and control. Yeah. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Great, great. All right. So, what would you say to a woman who's listening, who's ready to empower that inner strength within herself? What are two or three tangible lessons or daily practices that you think every woman should adopt to build their emotional grit or strength?

SPEAKER_02 45:37

I feel like I keep giving the same answer, but it's so true. Dialectics, people. Um, every single day when you are stuck in black and white thinking and you are practicing judgmental language. So judgmental language is anything that's going to cause us to have like an emotional reaction. So I can imagine for women, it's often like I'm bad, I'm broken, I'm worthless. Can you make that more descriptive and what happens when you do, right? So if you say something like I'm bad, I actually don't know what that means, right? If you tell me something like, I feel like a person who has made a choice that I wish I hadn't made, that's actually much more descriptive. And then we can challenge that, right? We can say, are you really a bad person? Are you really somebody who has made a choice that you wish you didn't make make? And maybe, and does that mean that we don't deserve grace, forgiveness, etc.? So I think the power of dialectics, I'm this and I can still be this, or I did this and I can still be this. The power of non-judgmental thinking, like, what does it actually mean that you're worthless? Oh, I can't get out of bed. That's what it means. Okay, does that really mean that we're worthless? And so then challenging

Daily Practices For Emotional Grit

SPEAKER_02 47:05

some of those things. I think a third thing is also as hard as it is, give yourself compliments, even if it's like as small as I put my left foot on the floor when I didn't want to get out of bed. Like, go you, right? Huge step. Give yourself compliments. You know, I poured myself a bowl of Cheerios when I didn't feel like I deserved to eat. Go you. And like, what happens to your worth when you start giving yourself compliments? We don't have to have compliments be I'm beautiful. Look at my glowing skin. It can be like, I got out of bed today, I ate when I didn't want to, I went to work. So try to find moments of confidence as well.

SPEAKER_00 48:01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

Yeah. I'm just thinking about clients that I've had that feel very like uncomfortable with compliments. So if someone, if someone says, like, I can't stand, I mean, I've seen it. I I you give a kid a compliment, they're like, oh, stop, don't say that. You know? I have a kid don't like this yes. So what would you say if someone says like I hate compliments? Like, how do you think that they can work through that?

SPEAKER_02 48:27

Yeah, so I have a teen who is, she just turned 18. And when we were no longer working together because she had to move to an adult clinic for different reasons. But when we were working together, one of the things she said was, I cannot compliment myself, right? Her trauma was growing up in a household where her dad just constantly berated her and told her how dumb and stupid and worthless she was. And then had a stepfather who did the same thing. And I said, Can you say the words, I'm pretty? Like, is your tongue able to do those? And she said, Yeah. And I said, Okay, just start practicing compliments. Like whether you believe them about yourself or not, just say them. Like, I don't care if you believe them, just practice saying them. And then she started doing that. And then I started, she would write them down on like a homework log. Like, I said, even if I didn't believe it, I said, good job getting out of bed, or you did a good job on that math lesson. And then I would take those things and I would say, What does it mean about ourselves if we got out of bed? Or was it mean about ourselves if we did well on a math test or homework? And she would say, Well, you know, I think it would mean, you know, that someone is smart or someone is like brave for doing something that they didn't want to do. And I would say, Huh, I actually remember you doing that thing. And then she would go, okay. Yeah, I guess. I guess. I say, I wonder if that's true about you. And you know, at first she would say no, but then it turned into an I guess. And I'll take an I guess, right? That's a step. So I think it really is about practicing complimenting and then taking a compliment from you know a homework log or however you're doing it with your client and helping them understand what that means about them. And often, you know, they can only say, Well, she's brave or she's blank. And I say, Well, have you ever done that thing? And they're like, Well, yeah. And I'm like, Yes, you are too. And then we kind of laugh about it, and then there's growth.

SPEAKER_00 50:50

Yeah. There's growth. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Yeah, that's powerful. Cause I think when we think of compliments, or even like I like to do celebrate wins, which is pretty much pretty much the same thing, just different language.

SPEAKER_02 51:02

Um, sorry, there was a little thumbs up on your no, I drank my water bottle, and I think because of the way I was holding my handle, it was like thumbs up. Awesome. I love it. Thumbs up to doing wins.

SPEAKER_01 51:17

Um, yeah, so you know, yeah, very similar, just the language is different, and I think that it's very similar. It's like when you're celebrating wins, it doesn't have to be like people think it's like I have to be this big enormous thing, you know. Like you said, it could be I woke up on time, you know, it could be I remembered to take my vitamins today, you know. So I think it's important for people to know that you don't have to do these big things, it's just really just acknowledging the efforts that you're making towards right doing things that you want to do. So I think that's that's really important. Yeah. All right. So as we wrap up today's episode, I wanted to ask you, you know, giving your work with both women and girls, what is one truth you wish every girl could hear right now that would protect her sense of worth and show and as she grows into her 30s, 40s, and beyond.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

I think the thing that's coming to my mind the most is you have the choice to define who you are. You don't always have the choice to choose what happens to you. You have the choice to define who you are. And it takes time, as we've talked about for the last, you know, 50 minutes to go from I'm hurt to I can be hurt and act that I am powerful. I just want everyone to know that they have the choice, right? Like, even if a man or a boss or a teacher or the world or your mom or your dad or whoever it is says that you don't, you do, right? And there is beauty, no matter how long it takes in getting to the other side. So try to get to the other side because I think it stinks to have to walk to the other side. It is so hard, it is so painful, it is such hard work. And I promise you that once you get to the other side, there is some beauty in it, and you

The Truth Every Girl Needs

SPEAKER_02 53:29

deserve that, like give that to yourself when you're ready. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:34

Yeah, that's great. I totally agree with that. All right. Well, any last words of wisdom, anything that you feel like you want to leave our listeners with before we wrap up today's episode?

SPEAKER_02 53:49

I think one last thing I would say is I think often people see women and girls as like people to disregard. And like I just want to remind everyone that like we are actually the people that you should be regarding the most. Like, if we all want to be strong, if we all want to be powerful, if we all want to be resilient, which I argue are values that we all want, go look at a girl, you know. Like we go through, I'm not gonna swear, but we go through stuff every day, right? And we're still standing on our two feet. So, like, I just want everyone to remember that like there's so much power in being a girl. And I often hear people say, like, I hate being a girl. And like sometimes I hate being a girl too, in the sense of like, I don't like to get acne. And like sometimes it's hard to have body parts that hurt, right? And do things that I wish they didn't do. And at the end of the day, being a girl is pretty powerful. We get to bring other people into the world, like we get to have like a really strong voice, and I just want people to remember that it's a pretty beautiful gift, and once they can find the gift in it for them, there's a lot of power in that.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

Beautiful, beautiful. Well, Soina, thank you so much for being here. And I know that everything we've talked about today is definitely gonna be touching, you know, different people who may be experiencing either trauma or they feel worthless, they feel they're broken. And I hope that they can resonate with this episode and really hold on to something that really can help them to start making some positive changes in their lives.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Me too. I had so much fun talking about this, and I hope that you know, even if it touches one person, then we've done something, right?

SPEAKER_01 55:45

Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, all right.

SPEAKER_02 55:47

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

Thank you. Thank you so much for joining this conversation today. I hope this episode was helpful to you on your healing journey. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode packed with valuable tips and insights designed to empower you. If you found value in this episode, I'd be so grateful if you left me a review wherever you're listening from and share your thoughts and feedback. This really helps me to reach more women just like you. Thanks for listening.