Time Is Better Than Money: Maxwell D on Music, Fatherhood & Breaking the Cycle

This week on The Parent Playbook, Nyah sits down with one of the most iconic figures to ever come out of the UK music scene. Maxwell D. The man behind Don't Let Me Get Serious. A legend of garage and funky house. A father of three. And one of the most unexpectedly raw, honest and profound conversations this podcast has ever had.
Maxwell came into the music industry fierce, hungry and full of raw street energy. Fame followed. The penthouses. The cars. The charts. And then his first son Kamani arrived — named after Bob Marley's son, called by name from inside the womb — and everything changed. Because that was the moment Maxwell D finally understood what unconditional love actually felt like.
But this is not a straightforward success story. It is a story about what happens when you are trying to provide and perform and be present all at the same time, without the tools or the role models to tell you how to do it. Maxwell's mum had him at 15. His dad was not around. He grew up in foster care, went to prison, and found music as a way to outrun his trauma — only to have fatherhood bring all of it rushing back to the surface.
They talk about the grind of building a career in music while raising a child, the invisible load that performers carry on show days, the marriage that did not go the way he planned, the youngest son he did not meet until he was six years old, and what it really means to break the cycle when the cycle has been broken for generations before you.
Maxwell also gets into the state of the music industry today — the 300 TikTok videos it takes to go viral, the way streaming killed the return, and why he is still making music at this stage of his life because it feeds his soul — not because it pays his bills. His new album Emotional Intelligence drops this week and this conversation is the perfect companion to it.
Plus Kizzy sounds the alarm, the Kizzy question gets answered with Mortal Kombat energy, and Nyah reflects on why watching a child feel protected by their father might be one of the most powerful things she has ever witnessed.
Gem after gem after gem. This one is a part one. You are going to want a part two.

If this conversation sat with you — that's the Purple Print doing its thing.

Share this episode with a parent who needs to hear it. Not the one who has it all together. The one who's in it, just like us.

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I'm Nyah. This is The Parent Playbook by Trybe. And I'll see you next Wednesday.

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Transcript

Cold open — time is better than money

SPEAKER_01 0:00

You know, it wasn't like I was I didn't want to bondle much out with my son at a young age. It was I was so being busy trying, and you realise that the time you're putting into your the songs, the traveling up and down, money's great, but the time is better.

SPEAKER_04 0:13

So, what how would you feel about your children getting into the music industry?

SPEAKER_01 0:17

I don't want them to. All the things that I've bared my soul, blood sweat, tears into this industry. I do not want that for my child.

SPEAKER_04 0:34

Hey everyone, and welcome to the Parent Playbook by Tribe. This is a space for real conversation about parenting and careers. It's not a highlight reel, it's not none of that fake Instagram shit.

Welcome & introducing Maxwell D

SPEAKER_04 0:45

You're gonna get a real authentic version of what real parents are really going through. We're here to talk about the mental load, the invisible stuff, and the thinking and the remembering and all of the stuff that nobody really clocks. There's no manual, there's no instructions, just a purple print. Real parents and real parenting hacks. And today I am joined by a colossal guest who I'm very privileged to be sat next to. I'm not gonna sing his songs, okay? We're not gonna start singing these songs, but I really feel like I could. But I am joined by the famous, yeah, infamous, okay, Maxwell D! Thank you for having me. We need a studio audience, and that's when they start. So introduce yourself and tell the people who you are and what you're best known for.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Okay, so my name is Maxwell D. Um being I'm a proud father of three, and I'm being in the music industry for the last 26 years, and mainly known for my first track that I delivered in the industry called Don't Let Me Get Serious. Everyone should give me a pound for every time they say it. I'll be rich. It's a hashtag. It's a hashtag, yeah. Basically, so yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it, man. I couldn't decline a hat to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:59

It's it's strange

Coming into the music industry raw, hungry and off the streets

SPEAKER_04 2:00

sitting next to you in this capacity because before I even got into music, you're yeah, it's just like we've seen you all the race, singing all the music, and it's yeah, it's really it's crazy to think that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Here we are, just a normal setting.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

It's just a very normal setting and a really great conversation we're about to have. I can't wait. I we started talking before the camera started coming.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

We did, we got into it, we was getting spicy into the conversation. Oh my lord.

SPEAKER_04 2:26

Um, but yeah, we're gonna get into it now. So let's let's start. Like, I want to really talk about how you manage having a child in your the earlier stages of your career. Now I had my daughter at, I would say like the middle tail end of my career, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

So how would you say when you had your daughter?

SPEAKER_04 2:44

I had my daughter at 34. Oh, well, I'd already been in the industry a decade by then. So I'd already done, you know, a lot of stuff so I kind of knew how to navigate. Whereas where you entered the scene, you entered it in a time where you were the pioneers.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

Early. It was very easy. Very, very, very, very early.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Yeah. How did you find that?

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, I think for me, I which is what this is a really good question, actually. So when I come into the music industry, I was just like fierce and hungry off the street, road, this ex-road man has gone into the music industry with all these suits and ties, and I'm just like coming with my raw energy, and we're getting through, and I'm making progress, I'm making legal money, no one, no one's not gonna kick off my door, and that's it. We're just in there and we're in the thick of things, and I'm just bringing my street energy and stuff like that. So I would say that, you know, I've got knees, I had did I have any nieces? I had one niece at the time, so I didn't really have loads of nieces and nephews. Um children for me was not in the in my mindset at the time when I came to the music industry, it was just about me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. And um, so let's say, after all the like the first early trials and tribulations of the music industry, becoming famous, becoming successful, going into the national charts, making a lot of money, buying the pent artists, the cars, the jewels, great. But, you know, dealing with all the backlash of the music industry, all the declines and all the you know negativity that comes with, you know, being a pop star at the time or whatever, then get into the ages of like 27, 28, having my first child, my son, you know. Um that's when I experienced love. Okay. That's when I could absolutely, absolutely say unconditional love. But a flip side of it, it was like all my trauma caught up with me.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

It was like me running away in the music was like an escape to put all my trauma and you know, getting through all the stuff that I've been through in my child and my um past as a you know, being in foster care and going to prison and doing all that stuff. To have my firstborn was like, oh my god, I'm gonna love this child to death. Like this is it, like anything, I'm gonna lick off my life. Any healthy head. So that was where that's what introduced me to love.

SPEAKER_04 4:50

Okay, and do you know it's it's like it's nice to hear you poise it like that. And I think a lot of the time when I speak to people that don't have children, it's like there's a thing inside of me that wants to

Having his first son Kamani at 27 — and finally understanding unconditional love

SPEAKER_04 5:00

say, no, no, no, but when you have children, everything's gonna change. And then I fight myself because I remember being that person that didn't have kids, and I felt like I'm fine without kids. Yeah, you do think it doesn't define me, it's not gonna be the making of me because I'm already doing all the things.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

And then I had my daughter, and and what happened? And I was like, It blew.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

The love just expanded.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

I'm like, I'm like, what like, and I feel like when as they get older, you see a version of yourself in real time, which is the strangest, like it's the strangest thing. Like she was doing something, and I must have said to my husband, she's so funny, man, she's hilarious. And he looked at me and said, That's because you like yourself, because she's exactly like you. You find your own shit funny. That's why you're finding her funny, and that was how I loved her. I don't yeah, I do, because I do find myself funny. Um, but yeah, it is like it's nice, and it's nice to hear a father's version as well. Um, because you know, love is it's an underrated word, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

I feel it's unconditional as well. Doesn't matter what your child does, you know, what they be, what turn out to be, or whatever they do, you're gonna love them regardless. I mean, we was like at the Moses basket, like with the air, he's breathing, yeah, like you know, making sure, like, yeah, like I'll jump it up, like you know what I mean. It wasn't even a bad experience. I mean, the pregnancy was quite interesting, like the kicking stages like, oh my god, he's kicking, he's kicking, like, you know what I mean. Like, I I I said he was a boy from she told me it was pregnant, she was pregnant. I was like, yes, boy. But I was manifesting that regardless. Could have come out a girl and be like, look, it's a boy. So I we called him, we you know, we gave him his name straight away from the first, like, you know what I mean? His name's Kamani. I was like, yep. Um, after the Bob Marley's um, one of the sons of Bob Marley. So um we was like, yeah, Kamani. So we could Kamani Marle thinks his name is, but we just called him Kamani. So I was like, right. Kamani. So I was calling him Kamani from the stomach. Okay. So when he used to kick, I'd be like, yes, Kamani. And he, you know, he'll kick and whatever. So that was interesting. The pregnancy was very interesting, you know. Um, unfortunately, my son's my son's mum, she lost her mum but she was three months pregnant. So she, yeah, so there was a lot of that going on behind the scenes. So I have to be like very, you know, try to be supportive through the pregnancy. And then when we got into the pregnant with the labor room, um he was breached.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Oh my day.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yeah, so imagine you're just going through the pregnancy, like your first pregnancy now, your first Charles coming, and you're like, yeah, and don't want you got this, and she was like, she was oh, it's funny, the gas, she sucked out the gas in there. Like the gas in there, the bottles went boom, like it was just like boom, boom, the bottles are flying. And it was like, you know, time for the epiguro and all the rest of it. And then when, you know, she was pushing, the the woman's coming in, she was like, nah, you know, and you can see them all talking to them themselves, they're doing all that, and you're like, And they're like, right, you gotta sign this. And I'm thinking, sign one. You have to sign a thing to say, yeah. And I'm like, so by that time, the blood left my body, and I tell you, I did, I didn't smoke at that particular time. Yeah, but all I remember, the woman looked at me, I felt really, really dizzy when I found out we're gonna have a c-section. She was, and she was like, Are you alright? Did you need a cup of tea? I'm like, Yeah, please give me a cup of tea. I went outside, I had a fag. Literally, I had a blatant fag. Yeah, I was puffing on it. And then um, yeah, we got dressed up. Um, what we, I got dressed up, and then we're getting your in your robes, and I watched the C-section. It was like a horror movie, a happy horror movie. Yeah. I remember one time I peeked over the curtain and I just saw blood and yeah, and the stomach was just like, I was like, yeah, a real life happy horror movie. And I just heard punch, yeah, pull, pull, pull, say not, push, pull, pull. And then um, that moment of him coming out, it just felt like slow-mo. Yeah over to the counter art where they lay him down, and you're waiting, you're looking at him, holding her hand, she's crying, I'm got a look at tears up in the hand, and we're just waiting for him to just make that sound, and it's like and it just and then like the tears flow. Yeah, so that that for me, nothing will ever beat that birth and that moment. It's no, yeah, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_04 8:55

It's funny you talk about c-section. I didn't have a c-section, I said I had a normal birth, but my cousin just

Bonding from the belly — calling him by name through the womb

SPEAKER_04 9:00

had twins just before Christmas, and she was gonna have them like vaginally without the C-section. Yeah, you didn't think you wouldn't go with this. In the moment, anyway, as you said, it all changes, and then it was they come with a form, and then all of a sudden, and then the dad's putting his thing on, and then everybody had left this room, and I was just left in the room, like only two people can go in. So I'm left in this room, no one's in there, it's just me, my cousin's gone, and I'm like, what I she needs to come back alive, you know, like everything's gone. There's no one here. The C-section is happening without me, and I'm gonna after your rendition of this horror, the love horror movie, I'm glad I was like, You were not I wasn't gonna peek.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

I wasn't gonna peek, but I'd say you know the you know, you just want to know what's going on here, and all this shoveling and mubling, and you're just like and then looking over, I was like, Woo! Yeah, well, look again. I looked once. There was not there was not another look.

SPEAKER_04 9:52

I was just like, I just yeah, so okay, so alright, so the burps happened, you're in love with your son, absolutely named him, you've got a bond because you were already bonding from outside the belly. From from the belly, yeah. Which is a unique experience. Some men don't get that. No, it was a look at that. Some men actually struggle to to bond with the baby because I don't know, but it's just a I don't know why, but some men do. They have this thing. Um, yeah, Google, do your Google. All your chat GPT, there is a there is a thing. Um you're very fortunate to have that. Um, but okay, so but fast forward to your your first performance as a dad because it's different, right? Yeah. Because you're leaving your shop.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Show me the money. Absolutely. I think I don't know. Do you know what? I feel like I had a bit more compassion for people, a bit more patience. Yes. I felt like I I matured a bit, but I was very about my bread. I was like, right, I got a mouth to feed. Yeah. I feel like I'm man, to be fair, that is when my space was around.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

And that's when I met my best friend, my best friend today, who lives in Los Angeles. Oh my god. A producer, yeah, who opened me up to Hollywood. And um, I was that was the reason why I was grinding. Because I actually, you know, my uh son's mum was airstroder. Okay. So so before, you know, when she f before pregnant, I used to get ID 90s and we used to I used to travel around, fly around the world with her. And then when she used to go and work, wherever, so I used to get got a cheap ID90 to go to Los Angeles because I met my friend on MySpace. And um, I remember going shopping for for my son, and literally, for me, um yeah, I was thinking the world. I was just like my my my scope of dreaming big. So when I performed as a as a father, I just remember having a real responsibility, like, yo, I'm not doing this just for me no more. Yeah, I'm doing this for him. So it made me really tighten up my gap and then then come Blackberry High. Like, literally, that's how much I was driving myself into my career again to actually get myself another hit.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Okay. Yeah, so and how many songs do you think would you say you'd done in between? Because there's millions.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

Okay, there's there's a whole thing. I've done about 20, 30 funky freestyles.

The C-section, the gas and air and the happy horror movie birth story

SPEAKER_01 12:00

That was my whole thing. I was like, what this funky thing's really. I've heard your songs and stuff like that. Well we're outside, um, other other funky songs are outside, and I was even on another genre, I was like, yeah, man, this has like garage. So I'm like, yeah, this can't go on.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

So yeah, I was on everybody's instruments.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

I think people think that when you have a song that does really, really well, that it's the only song you've ever talked about. Oh, no, no, no. And nobody really talks about the hundred of songs that sit on your hard drive. Absolutely. The ones that you do, like uh, you must have had this experience where you're in the studio, you're making a banger, and then a banger, and then you go back and listen to it the next day and you're like, what the hell was that? Like, nobody really talks about all of those moments. I remember when Twitter first came out and Wiley was having an issue with his label, and he just uploaded a zip file.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Yeah, I remember 100 songs and that's sick.

SPEAKER_04 12:50

And I remember thinking, how you like that? Must be the best feeling in the world because we do all of these songs, and the major every song you do as an artist, you love. Of course. And then like it. And then you're just like, what is this? But it's like you feel like not every song gets a chance.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

No.

SPEAKER_04 13:07

You know, and that feeling of having like making all of these creative products and no one ever getting to hear them. And I remember watching him do that and think, I wish I had the guts to just let go of everything I'd recorded previously and then just starting again. Yeah. Because it must feel kind of it does.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

I mean, I was flinging them out raggle on Sunspace. I was just like, yo, DJs funky, DJs, any DJs house, DJs, whoever's out there, who can hear me? Anyone? Is anybody there? You know, one of them, have it. And that's what literally kind of brought on the Blackberry hat because I was doing so many freestyles on funky instrumentals that when I heard the little silver different thing, I was like, oh, yeah. I just went home and I just pressed record and I just literally freestyled the tune because I got a Blackberry phone. I was so gassed to get a phone. I was paid to go for so long that when I got a flipping contract, I was gassed. I was like, oh my god. I mean, and then I ended up doing a song that became it was a timing that the phones were out. I I tried to reach out to Motion, but they were like, nope, sorry, everyone's got the phones now, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've done a drink. So I ended up doing a Blackberry hat energy drink, and then I was going around to the shows with my energy drink. Oh wow. And it was like, so yeah, I learned a lot of stuff of them even declining me. You know what I mean? So, and all that was at the time when my son was like one, you know, one and a half, you know what I mean, being a father. But I was like, I learned a lot about that period because I was so trying to provide, because I'm like, you know what it's like, when you ain't got a hit song, you're unemployed. That's what it is. So when you got a hit song, you're like, rah, I got bookings, I got show, I'm I'm up and down him in Scotland, I'm in Europe, I'm doing so many shows, Napa, back to back, Mali, whatever. And then but you you got you got a family. So then you're not realizing that you're leaving, you know, your partner to kind of like do the graft, and you're not sharing the family moments. And I didn't learn, I mean, I learned after this, but that was the most vital points of maybe bonding as a family. Yeah. But you know, then on the flip side, it's like, well, you know who you're with.

SPEAKER_04 15:06

But do you think as well that a lot of it has got to do with, you know, growing up in like the 80s and the 90s was a different time, and we were kind of programmed into man must provide and the mum must look after the kids. So with that in mind, it's like you're doing your best version of what that looks like because you have to provide with the tools that you have. Whereas I think in like 2026, times have changed. Absolutely. Mums are in the workspace, they have careers, there are a lot of mums that are actually chief income, you know, and dad is working, and it's like now we're realizing that no, no, no, this takes two at home as well as it takes two in the workplace. Because not many people can survive on one income right now.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

What these bills are you crazy? The cost of living, yeah, yeah, it's a lot. Stay away from London, guys, stay away from blood that it's a lot. If you're if you're trying to, you know, do something because you know how it is, people working and then the bills and stuff like that. So, yeah, two people in a household did very well.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

So, what do you what would you say you would do differently now, understanding that your partner would have probably had an invisible load of stuff to do that you just didn't know about? A, because you was on the road, but b because it just wasn't traditionally for a man to do, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Yeah, that as well. I'd feel like for me, now looking back, it takes two to raise a child. It doesn't, I mean, there are, you know, you gotta release the woman. Uh when I say release the woman, I mean as in her. No, I'm free! You gotta release her. She needs that, and also you need that one-to-one bond with your child. You know what I mean? I, you know, it wasn't like I was I didn't want to bond with my child with my son at a young age. It was I was so being busy trying to, and you realise that the time you're putting into your songs, the traveling, up and down, money's great, but time is better. Yeah, yeah. You know, time is always gonna outshine the money like that. Could never get the time back. So don't get me wrong, I was around and we spent a lot of time, but there are times when, you know, we're going to the park, and I'm just like, oh my god, like,

First performance as a dad — tightening up for someone else

SPEAKER_01 17:00

yes. And this is like, come on, did you get it? You know, put them on the bike. And you're like, come on, come on. And you're just like, I know I want to go. I've got a shoulder next, I need to get my hair cut. Like you're trying to run the schedule, and you're just like needs to, and but but you know what I realized? That was I needed to be present. You know, my mind wasn't present half the time. Like my body was present, but my mind was.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

It's interesting when you explain it like that, because it sounds like you have your own version of the invisible load. Yeah. Okay, because that version there is like, and I don't know if that is a creative thing or the the recording artist thing, because I, when there's a show, the day, like people think, yeah, you get paid to be on stage for your three and a half.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

No, the day is a mental process.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

The whole day is a countdown to the show. Yeah, of course. Like in every like, how many hours have I got? I've got six hours. Yes, I'm understanding. And then you're like oh, I'm laying in bed, I've got to go relaxing, oh, six hours, four hours, and then all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

We're progressing it as well. It's mad. But I'm just thinking about what you've got to do.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

It's so hard. And then as you said, is that you're thinking about your chair, thinking about the hair. I'm thinking about back in the day, it was like my PA C D and the shoes and the pizza. And then you're like, look at the time. If I leave now, I could get extra five. And what used to happen to me a lot of the time is I'd be at the hotel in the city of where the show was, and I'd be like, I'll get a nap in.

unknown 18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:19

Okay, let me get a quick nap. And then to get me up for that performance.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Hey! It was a lot. You're tired and you've got to get the room.

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Now I'm looking at you and I'm thinking, adding a child on top of that, like, it is probably And you're a first father.

SPEAKER_01 18:34

I'm a first father. First time. You know what I mean? My dad wasn't around when my mum, so you know, they broke up from my mum had me young, my mum had me at the age of 15. Okay. So I was raised by a teenager. Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? And my dad wasn't around. So um it was, I didn't have no role models. I didn't have no one to try and tell me this is what you do when you become officer. So I'm just learning on the job. Yeah, and you know, and I now I look at it and I'm like, rah, like I should have, like, not should have been there, I was there, but I I understand more now as an as an older person, as a you know, three times platinum father now. That you know what I'm saying, that's you the woman, this is what you call, you know, um a joint parenting that in the household. And and uh that for the first three and a half before we broke up, I was outside, you know what I mean? But she needed, she needed, she needed that support, you know. So um I learned from that.

SPEAKER_04 19:26

It's really um, I don't know, it's just very um refreshing to hear you explain it the way that you explain it. Because I think that there are probably a lot of parents that get to an age where they will just do a blame game instead of taking ownership over. Do you know what I could have done differently? But I think it goes across, I think we all realise that as parents, even me. When you're talking about the park, in my head, I'm thinking these men like to go bike riding. They're like, come on, mommy, we're gonna go bike riding. And I'm like, do you know how much shit I gotta do at home? And like you want me ri riding around this park, and you manage just going, and I'm like,

Blackberry Hype, freestyles and grinding for the next hit

SPEAKER_04 20:00

it's just it's just it's not enjoyable, doesn't feel enjoyable, but then there will be a day where I would long to go on the bike ride, you know. Like I wanna do that, you know. Even now, I can't go and take my daughter to the park and push her on a swing. Like she's nine. See, she ain't on that, bro. She's oh oh, we've got the alarm clock going off. It's the kizzy alarm, the kizzy alarm is on the city. So, yeah, we have the kizzy question. Okay. Um, so yeah, for those of you don't know, I have a nine-year-old. You should know by now. You know, we are in season three, and she's a very like she is the CEO of my company Vibes, yeah? So anyway, I've told her I'm doing a podcast and she wanted me to ask all the guests a question. Okay. And the question is, what is your most favourite hobby to do with your child or children? So obviously you have multiple children, so you might want to say something you enjoy with the older one, and maybe something with one of the little ones. Well not little, but younger.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

I mainly only see my uh eldest. So it would be my eldest. Um so what do I like doing with we um Badminton was a what I did like doing. Oh, I like Badminton! Yeah, we it gave us a good game with Badmurton. And what else do I like? Do I like doing? I mean, um we were good at playing computer. Oh really? What was your game? Like our game would be Mortal Kombat. Oh yeah? Yeah, Mortal Kombat. Um if not Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter. I tried to get him on Street Fighters. Okay, okay. So like yeah, those were the good, those were the good hobby days. Now he's a bit he's gonna be 18 next week, so that went out the window. He has a girlfriend, he has he's he's going to uni soon, so it's all changed, it's all switched up transformation. Like, yeah, the transformation's crazy, you know, they're driving lessons, everything. So I can't imagine. I can't imagine. Yeah, you'll get there. Another nine years, and you're gonna be in a whole different headspace.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

Listen, and the way she acts, like she's 25 already.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Trust me, it she's gonna be telling you how to do something.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

She really does, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

Like, sometimes I'm looking and I'm like, what She did the other day, she'd done something, and then my notes from my phone were on her iPad. And I'm like, How have you done this? And like, I don't, and then she started reading that, and I was doing something to do with work. So then she started reading it all out. I said, like, and then I had to go to Chat GPT and say, How do I get this off of her iPad? You know, like they just it's so savvy.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

No, they're cool because that's the they've born into this, so they get it's it's a natural instinct for them.

SPEAKER_04 22:23

Yeah, it is. So, what how would you feel about your children getting into the music industry?

SPEAKER_01 22:28

I don't want them to. Like, I I all the things that I've bared my soul, blood sweat, tears into this industry. I do not want that for my child. But my son is he's creative, he's going to uni for film and media. So he's taken that part of the creativity out of me, you know what I'm saying? So he's gonna end up. So I thought, yeah, yeah, you make movies, yeah. You uh that's not, you know what I mean? But even that's gonna be a hard industry, not hard, but it's gonna be an industry for him to he's gonna have to climb and climb through. But not the music industry, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:56

I think, yeah, I I agree with you as well. A lot of people always say that my daughter loves seeing it, she's it she does everything. Um, but I said to her, This is when she was six, was she six? Yeah, she wanted to do a song, and I said, Okay, you can do the song, but you have to write the song yourself. Because if you're gonna be a uh musician, you need to write your own music because that's how you're gonna make your money. And um, anyway, she wrote a song and we recorded it. I released it on Spotify for her. Wow. And she saw one royalty check, she got about 33p or something ridiculous. And she was going for music, man. She was like, I write it, she said it's diet, and then she said, and then I showed her the listeners on Spotify. She's like, I've only got 31 listeners. I'm like, you don't promote the song, like there's a whole you don't just do a song for close, you know, like so. It was an amazing lesson for her to understand if you're doing music because you love it, great, but you sound like you're doing it for the cash. And bro, there's hardly any cash in this in this industry. Like not like that.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

Not the way they've turned the technology. I remember guy into EMI one day, a publishing, and they were introducing this whole iTunes thing. And I wish I paid more attention to what the guy was saying, but he was like, yeah, it's gonna we're gonna change over. And it's gonna be this thing called iTunes, and Apple were doing this and Apple were doing this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:06

But you're so lucky because you actually came out at a time pre-digit. Yeah, vinyl. So when Funky was coming out, it was just a crossover. It was I done vinyl, but then my song, I didn't do a CD, no. I went, it was just iTunes, I think, had just launched. Okay. And then we literally just launched digitally. But no one was really, it was it was a really messed up time. It was just um we talk a lot, like a lot with my um funky house peers. A lot of us talk about the fact that we came out of a really strange, it was a really strange time to release music because it was all brand new. So no one knew what they was doing. A lot of people didn't even have iTunes on their phone yet. It was just, yeah, it was crazy. So you're lucky that you had the experience of that, you know, today if you release a record, it's now we're working backwards. You know, like before you would gear up towards a release, now it's like you release it.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

There you go, and then you gotta do all the things. It is backwards because people are got the tension spans, are crazy out here. They don't like you could do that. It's

The songs that never got heard — and the hundred songs on the hard drive

SPEAKER_01 25:00

coming in free, two. No, no one cares. No one cares. Is it out today? Today, now can I get it? No, yeah, that's it. And so, because we're living in a now generation, is you do that and then you gotta bleed it. You know what I mean? And even for us artists, I hate reposting the same stuff. But it's just what you've got to do it because people are just like, they're clicking and not listening. That's what you've got to realize. Click, click, click, click, click. So you've seen, you might be seeing names, but trust me, those people ain't listening the way you think they're listening. 100 million percent.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

And also, I feel like it's it's a bit of pride that stops us from the reposting and the keeps. We kind of gotta get over that.

SPEAKER_01 25:36

We you gotta get you gotta play the game. I mean, the whole pushing and pushing, it just becomes a sad, like groundhog day for us. But for the actual audience and that, it is like they're taking in information in clips.

SPEAKER_04 25:48

Well, you know, before we before we was recording, I was letting you, I was talking to you about music, and I said, you know, like I'm kind of done right now.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yeah, I can't believe it.

SPEAKER_04 25:56

But again, um, but one of the things that made me think about the music as well is like I like to really, if I'm gonna apply myself, I'm going all in. And I was watching a video with um the Molly Mae, Shake It to the Matter. And I was recording a project in Ghana, and the one of the producers that would worked with her told me about the song. It's the first time I heard it, and he said, Yeah, it's going viral now. And he said she would film the song everywhere she went.

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

She filmed over 300 videos for TikTok before one took off.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 26:28

And I thought to myself, That's dedication. 300 videos. Yeah. I've got a cook. I have to pick up, I have to pick up my daughter. I'm building a tech company. Well, this is what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

They've made it like slave mindset. Three to really get out here.

SPEAKER_04 26:44

Videos. And then I I would never like to say it's a young man's game because I feel like I feel like being young is neither.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

When they say young man, they mean young man's energy.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

Bro, young man's energy, young man's time, young man's schedule. Bro, you're probably living at home, you ain't got no bills.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Majority.

SPEAKER_04 27:01

You're latching onto someone's Wi-Fi to you snapchat your friend. Like it's a different ball game when you are providing for a child that you choose to put your time in places where your ROI is a little bit more certain. Absolutely. And for me, it was a am I gonna do 300 videos? And it's not 300 videos now because you've already done 300, which means I've got to do 500 because you have to raise the bar.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Oh, yeah, yeah, no, you gotta be gotta keep going. And honestly, I do the reels, and I was like, well, I'm be speaking to certain camera people, media people, and they're like, yeah, Max, I'm gonna charge you ra-ra-ra. I'm just like, so I'm gonna be spending money with all of these people, and the return, like, you know what I mean, is not there is no return until until you bust. So your wife will bust. Yeah, but until you actually, you know, actually make that cross over or if you can get somewhere. And all of that investment on yourself, like, I'm like, listen, um, I'll just take out my iPhone. Yeah. I know we've got to do with quality and whatever, but I am getting out my iPhone or getting out my Digi, and we are just gonna make it happen ourselves because you're still gonna hear the same song. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'll rather work with you know, a little bit of on a budget basis and then just feeding people's pockets just to make myself looking at the case.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

But that's how she done it. That girl never had no crew, she had a phone, every chance she had, she popped out the phone and she recorded a video.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

And there we go.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

This is and the one that she didn't even plan, it was just a joke, they almost said around that's the one that went viral.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

But this is what I say.

SPEAKER_04 28:27

But she had the time to do that.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

I'm not gonna. When you're a family mum and I'm saying to you, what's I said, we was talking earlier and I was saying that married life, I'll convince myself to like, right, this is it, I'm gonna I want a family, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna watch these things.

SPEAKER_04 28:40

What was you when you got married?

SPEAKER_01 28:41

I was made, I was 40. I just I just I got married the day after my birthday. Wow. Yeah, I just literally got married a day after my birthday in Como. Um, and I was like adamant that this was gonna be my future.

SPEAKER_04 28:55

And I'm laughing, but because you already told me this story, it's like you have to share, you have to explain the

The invisible load of a performer — the whole day is a countdown to the show

SPEAKER_04 29:00

the rationale behind what marriage looked like in your head versus what they experience.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Like, as I said, well, since we talking to you earlier when I said that with men, sometimes it gets to a point where you have so much trials and tribulations, there's a clock that just goes, ding, I want to get married. Okay. Like, and it doesn't really necessarily matter what person you're married, it's like I'm ready to settle down. So if that person seems to like tick all the boxes, you're like, but you're not really like going through it properly. That there's are they compatible with this? Are they compatible with that? Is it my real person? Are we really gonna you just you know assume so that's why sometimes it you have to learn the person before you jump in and want to marry the person? But I was just like adamant that this is it. Um, this person, I'm falling in love, I'm gonna marry this person with someone, and then yeah. So for me, I thought that marriage was like gonna be love and support. So if you marry the right person, this is me not putting anyone off marriage. You gotta marry the right person, right? So if you marry the wrong person, you could be, it went from, you know, it's that honeymoon period to the bigger. Honeymoon period to like, wow, okay, East Enders, okay. Yeah, go to the street. Oh, you know, okay, you know, we're watching a big brother, okay. Celebrity brother, okay, love it. And then before you know it, like you're in a routine, and then you know, you know, oh, you like dogs, okay. That's dog's your thing. I met you, you know, you had a dog, and then you, you know, I'm gonna get a dog because I love you. I'm gonna try compromising. Yeah. Now you want a dog, you let's get a dog. And then you're trying to, then you realize, you know, that's a responsibility. I don't want the then you say, okay, I got boundaries, like the dog's not allowed to come on the sofa, it's not allowed to, then the dog's on the sofa. Then the dog's upstairs, then it looks upstairs. And then you're like, and then it just the the person that you, your marriage life that you thought you were gonna have with that person is just not going that way, and they got their own version of what they feel like the marriage should be, and then yeah, and then it doesn't work, and then you know, me awakening in the marriage is like actually this is not who I am. Yeah, like I I you know, I might love this person, you know, but this is not who I am, and that having that even in a marriage is hard because you want to fulfil your dreams, and we both look at the world different. So when you do get married, you really gotta share the same values, the same goals. And um, yeah, it takes a lot. So I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 31:11

I feel like, yeah, I feel like there is a definitely a version that they paint of marriage, what it looks like from the outside. And I think even when you're locked in with the right person, I still feel like you're gonna face an um like an immense amount of men and women, it's it's trials and tribulations.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Like I understand, you know, by the way. So women are in our job. There's a book that we don't understand. There's a lot of chapters that are not even in there, they don't even know it's in there. 100% women absolutely are still figuring themselves out biologically as they as they get older, as they go through.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

Well, this is what I was gonna say. What happens is is, and I'm no marriage guru, but what I feel like from what I've seen and a lot of the married couples that are around me is that we're all growing and evolving. And what's happening is is you could just be evolving at a different time and a different space. So you grow into somebody else, not just because you're married, but because you're getting older, and you actually just grow into someone else anyway. And what happens, I think, is that people either grow together or they grow separately. And if they're growing separately and there's no communication, then that adds to the stress.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Along with the trust, the loyalty and the support and all of that stuff. So, yeah, I believe that if you sometimes as a recipe red flags from both sides from early, and we miss them, and you know, there might be red flags on my side, and we're her side, and you miss them, and you just want to love the person, you just want to be with them, and you get attached, and then it's an attachment thing, and then yeah, uh that's why I say that people need to marriage is not something that I would tell anybody to just run and jump into.

SPEAKER_04 32:46

Yeah, you gotta know your person, and that's my lesson from being yeah, and know the person, but also understand that that person could change, yeah. And I feel like that's probably one of the biggest things that changes number one, number of things really talking about.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

No, no, people changing, you know, you meet someone at the beginning, and you know, you grow in, and then for me, I feel like I changed, and she might have a completely different version, whatever that's cool. But I know that I changed along the years when I first because it was like when we first got together, you was cooking and you were doing all this stuff, that they might see it as love bombing, yep. And I was like, no, I was just so happy to be here, you know. Like they're coming to that was uh on so happy to be married. I was like, this is my future, and then you know, you get into the real life, and it's like you got my nerves, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:33

I don't like that.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

I don't like that, nah, nah, bruv. No feeling, nah, and then so and then that could start being cement over the years. Yeah, 100% pulls up resentment, right?

SPEAKER_04 33:46

Yeah, no, and then you're others are actually But this is why I say it's like when you are joining with anybody, from one of the values for me is understanding that if you change, it's okay, and also if you change and you need to leave, that is also

Being raised by a 15-year-old mum with no dad in the picture

SPEAKER_04 34:00

okay. Because who we are at 30 and 40 and 50 and 60, and you're gonna be all different people, and those two people at that stage in their life, yeah, they might not just want to fuck with each other anymore. Absolutely, and that is okay, and that is why the communication has to be A1, because then you wouldn't have the fallout. Do you know what I mean? This is what I don't think anyone's mastered that. I don't think I've mastered that. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

I know, but I thought you know what Larry, I think you hit the nail on the head, like understanding that's why I called this my album, which is out on Sunday, quick plug. Album is out on Saturday, which is called uh Emotional Intelligence, and that's the name of the album because even trying to write from a perspective of where I am today, and even I put a lot of the some of the relationship stuff in there that on my side of the fence that I felt that was happening, and trying to explain my stuff. And there's a track in there called Um Love Yourself. And I realized that as you said, people change being with somebody that if they're not really loving themselves that much, I can expect them to love you 100%. So that was one of the key tracks in it, and so learning, and it's okay, and even how we split, you know, divorce and stuff like that, it was really harsh, it was very like cold, it was very, you know, we don't speak no more, you know, we separated and instant divorce papers, and it was just like that feeling, and what it was horrible. So I've learned now obviously at the time I was upset and hurt and whatever, but as I got older, I've learned that that was just who they are. That's that how they deal with things is who they are, and then how I have dealt with things who I am, like, so I'm like, we just gotta understand to learn to accept people for who they are, and learn that yeah, we've outrolled each other, and we're just different people. We're just we weren't meant to align. We just wasn't meant to be exactly a hundred movies.

SPEAKER_04 35:44

You know what I mean? And it's tough. I feel like there's especially when you grow up with no, there's no traditional, like you describe your early childhood, very similar to mine. It's like just mum, no dad, of course, um, young parents. My mum had me when she was 19, my mum was white, she had her own challenges and everything. And then you're witnessing which is conceived broken because it's not a it's not a traditional nuclear family. So then you grow up and you think, I want this, I need a nuclear family, I want the bridal dial, I want the family, I want the white picket fence, and then you're in it and you're thinking, it's dirty.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

I'm gonna sign up for this shit.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

I need to sign up. And it's like I I said I had my mum, I said something, I remember I was talking to my mum about something, and it was something to do with my daughter, and I said, Yeah, I was gonna check with her dad. And she went, Yeah, well, you know, I'm good. I didn't never have to go and check with Noah, I don't have to check with Noah. This is a single parent. Absolutely. And in my head, it's like, I think maybe years ago I could have probably agreed with her, but now I look at it and I think, yeah, but it's not really you didn't have to deal with someone else. I didn't have a dad, yeah, which means I was robbed of a situation because of whatever your circumstances are, but I was robbed of having synergy and having a father figure because you are happy to be the sole provider. This doesn't even make sense to me. So I'm listening, I'm thinking, okay, that's your defence mechanism because you didn't have a partner. But there are certain things I would rather negotiate with her dad than her not have a dad. Because watching moms take no listen to the gems. Watching my daughter with her father. This is special. It I've like my daughters, so my mum's got a dog. I'm not a dog lover.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:22

Okay, the dog has bit bit somebody.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Under duress that was a dog lover, sorry. Under duress.

SPEAKER_04 37:32

And that's no shame, you know. That's no shame. I've done it. She uh, my mum has been just biting someone, and I said to my daughter, Oh, are you like scared of the dog because it bit someone? She said, No, I ain't scared of that dog. I said, Oh, you're not scared of him? She goes, No. I was like, Okay. And she said, He knows who my dad is. I said, Oh, the dog did who your dad is. She said, Yeah, he knows who my dad is. If he bites me, my dad will smash that dog. In my head, I'm dying laughing. So I'm thinking, I'm thinking, the dog don't know.

Learning on the job — no role models, no manual

SPEAKER_04 38:00

The dog don't know. He doesn't buy any biting fine. But the beautiful thing for me was seeing you are so protected by your dad that you feel bland. You're confident anywhere you go. Because you know what, my dad's got my back, and my dad will kill anyone that see that how special that is as a mother to understand that.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

And I and I think a lot of women get overprotective, as another song on my track, on my album about my children, and it's called How Would You Feel? You know what I mean? And it's explaining like, how would you feel if you gave life and you was told that you couldn't preserve it? The song is so deep. And uh my elder, my youngest son, I didn't see him till the age of six, and didn't meet him. He lives in America, I didn't meet him to the age of six. And it's like what for me, no matter if the if the if the dad's not violent, yeah, and I know we all bicker, and I know you know, because of that, even on my side of the thing, you've got to look at yourself in the mirror and be like, how you can't just we ain't perfect, we ain't perfect, you know what I'm saying? But at the same time, it's about the child. And as long as there's there's rooms to, you know, what does a mother get over blocking the father? So that's a whole nother conversation, a whole nother No, and I when I hear you talking, I think that a lot of mothers should just take that approach for the child.

SPEAKER_04 39:14

For the child just for the child, and I I have a lot of male friends, like, and I am surrounded by some fucking great dads, and I've seen some dads go through some spend some cash just to see their children. And I can't understand, I can't understand the version. I can't understand the version where you wouldn't want your child to have a relationship with their dad.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

But they I think a lot of women they have everyone has their own reasons and have their own versions, but I just think to me personally, it's an excuse.

SPEAKER_04 39:43

It's always down to Well, I think if the dad wants, there's some dads that don't want to see. This is what I don't understand those guys.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

So I understand why do I get put in the right. I take it personal that I know dudes like that. Nah, I'm over it. But me sitting down there and being very vulnerable, very honest, I've tried. My youngest is nine and my daughter is eleven, and I've tried. And I'm over it now. Okay, like I'm over trying. Like people like, yo, you can go. Listen, I've done, I'm, I'm just dumb. And because for my mental health, for my I was making decisions, it was making me sick, yeah, emotionally sick though. And people don't see that side of it. I'm outside, performing, got a career, I've got another child to raise. Yeah, and it rips you apart. And and and all the up and down, seeing them, not seeing them, seeing them, that's too much for me. So I also it's too much for them.

SPEAKER_04 40:34

It's like how, like, imagine a child having to be like easy coming. And the easy coming is not because of him, it's because of whatever the situation is. And then all of a sudden you just don't get it. It's all right.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

I just feel that women, if you are gonna have you know, uh children with men, understand that if you and that guy was to fall out, would you still be able to co-parent with that? I think that's the number before you get even pregnant. Yeah, understand is do I even gonna be able to be friends with this guy? Because not everyone, you know, as long as it doesn't end violent, yeah, yeah, and you have to put any restraints on that. I just don't see we all fall out. It's not right, it's not a detriment to the children. We fall out with our brothers and sisters, everyone falls out with their friends and that. So that's just natural life. So I understand we've got to put that aside and just do with the love for the child, you know, put on your business game face and be like, right, I'm putting on dad hat, I'm putting on mum hat. We're gonna smile in front of the cameras, which is in front of your child, to to you know, put on the love and and do it and make the bond happen.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

It's odd, it's it's a it's a tough one because then on the at the same time as having the woman make those decisions, it's the same as the man as well. When you lay down with a woman, you have to know who is this woman.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

Target is take it to church because it's talking about it. Take it with church. It's the I listen, I take the account of Billy A. I take it, I worship the budget honor. No, you're not gonna be able to do not you know why because I'm gonna teach my son, yeah. Strub up, yeah, yeah. Yeah, oh

What Maxwell wishes he had done differently in those first years

SPEAKER_01 42:00

we are gonna get sponsored by Joe. We are gonna get sponsored by Joe. Oh my son. No, but honestly, that's how I look at it. Like, I don't I've done the blame game, I've done the whole thing of uh in my head. That's what I mean. That's the thing about what makes you sick, like the guilt, yeah, the guilt that you live with, like, ruh, I can't believe that. Why did I make the one decision? What me? Like, uh when you love love, you're you're you're you're not moving. Where did I not get the guidance? Like, so I could be great this guy on stage, I could be a great um partner, great whatever, but making the wrong decision. Where was that emotional intelligence? It was in how can you not see the red flags?

SPEAKER_04 42:39

But how could you how can we see the red flags at the same time? Because you're living life, yeah, and no one's running towards somebody saying, Show me the red flags. You see the grade in everybody.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

No, do you not do not you know in my scenario? I think one of them I definitely could have it was better than that. They usually maybe not there, but people No, I I think for me it was and also things that are not planned. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, not planned, but then it's down to what you should have worked on. Do you know what I'm saying? Like so we need to teach that people don't get caught up in the moment. You know, the cool out game, it's a it's a lie, it's a mix. Like, oh my cool. No, it's a myth. Yeah, just be safe and practice safe sex, yeah. And then no one's got to blame. And yeah, and things do happen, things like whatever, all the rest of it. But nine times out of ten, you're safe for all the other reasons as well, not just children, you know what I'm saying? You know, so I would say for me, you know, yeah, I put myself in a certain situation and I had to pay for it. But at the end of the day, it's still 50 50, you know what I'm saying? And I just realized that um I think accountability, but at the same time, I'm like, I learned from it. Yeah. Well I thought I did, because I ended up having another one.

SPEAKER_04 43:54

But you know what? Like, you know, I feel like I there's a saying, and some people believe this, some people don't. I don't feel like you we I feel like we choose our parents before we get here.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

It's a very spiritual spiritual way.

SPEAKER_04 44:06

And I feel like, yeah, you can try all that you want to try to prevent things and you can do cautious. But if someone's meant to be here, they're actually gonna be here. And there is a purpose and there is a reason. And we don't sometimes we don't know, we might not know it in this lifetime. But at some stage in your spiritual journey, there will be an alignment. Do you not find that important then?

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Imagine that, imagine that how I've saying it like that, but I wouldn't want to change that. Yeah. I would I'm so God, thank you for giving me a beautiful son, my youngest in a living in America with an American accent. Thank you for giving me a beautiful daughter. Like I'm sure when the time's right and we we bond as it's gonna align. Like I will I wouldn't want to take that away. Like I might want to change the mums if it was a computer game. Let me pick the mums. Like, can we just stop the mums? Can you have an arc? Can you have a given beyond say the love of that, you know? But generally speaking, the children all day long, our arms are wide open to give unconditional love to my children.

SPEAKER_04 45:02

No, listen, I feel like conversations like this really, really matter. And your your honesty will travel um way beyond you because it is you are a voice that is giving something that is happening all the time. Yeah, like it happens all the time. And as I said, I have a lot of male friends and I've seen some really tough, tough situations and fighting for just because they want to love on their children.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

Listen, I'm not sure you've seen that meme that there's the guy from Jamaica and he's like, Marsha. Is that is that this ever is like Marsha, please, like women will have you outside the house like some man, like, please, I just want to see my child. Yeah, you know, please, like, I said, no, she don't like you compromise a lot of self-respect. Why do you think a man's on just in a Spider-Man suit on the unbacking the pine? What do you think this is? Like, man, we do anything for our children, so it is a very serious thing. Like, it's a very emotional people who commit suicide. I mean, like,

The music industry in 2026 — 300 TikToks, streaming and working backwards

SPEAKER_01 46:00

once you have that emotional attached to uh, you know, unconditional love to your child, we as men, like, that is the one trigger that will really destroy us. And I think some women know that. And they press loads of it. Yeah, and I think that's wrong. And we don't have a court system set up. People say, Yeah, go court, do that. Yeah, I know guys that go on court, pay, and still going through the dramas. And even for me, people be like, bruv, go to court. And I'm like, I was gonna go to court, I was geared up for court and all of that, but court gives me PTSD. How about that? How about I've been that roadman that's been in the court?

SPEAKER_04 46:35

I don't like these guys, yeah, and also so it's like a bit of a money spinner.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Number one, yeah, and number two, just the emotional drag. So I like, yeah. So after dealing with all of that, and then like getting geared up to go court, and then I just like, you know what?

SPEAKER_04 46:48

But I've seen people go to court and they do a court order and they say you have to see the kid on this day, and then the mum don't stick to it anyway. And then you just go back to court. It's it's very good.

SPEAKER_01 46:56

But I've been getting geared up to go court, and then I'm not allowed to see my child, and then it's like, yeah, so then you're like, okay, right. You don't need cool. We don't, I don't I don't even need to immediate. Um, and then it works for a couple of you know, that time I see my child, I'm thinking, yeah, I'm getting there, and then phew, the carpet gets pulled underneath your feet again, and then back again, and it's like in and out over the years, and it's like, and then two, I've just like, you know, no, enough is enough for me, not and I love my children, but for me, I had to just put my mental health first and be like, right, the door is open when it is full consistency, not block them or anything, but the door is just open, and it's gonna be the mother to actually step and be like, hey, you know what? I'm ready to co-parent and I'm ready to do this properly. There's no games, this is the times, this is the days, this is what she's been like at school, this is what's happening, right? I need some money for this, I need to do this, we need to work out this fee, da da da. And I mean my child's life. Not this, like, yeah, send me the money, but I ain't got no access to no child, no nothing. Wait, where is this? Where's this? A hostage, like pay the money, like, oh, you're not gonna see your child. Yeah, like we're not doing that.

SPEAKER_04 47:59

It's crazy. I feel like honestly, there's a lot of scope for com for a conversation about this, like, because it's the it is just so familiar.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

Um we got friends, family, members, we've seen it, and I feel like when I watch some podcasts about you know, parenting podcasts, and then um, you know, baby father, baby mother comes up, baby father, children's moments. We all we a lot, and I don't get me wrong, I sympathize because my mother, you know, has come from a simple my mum was single parent. My dad is, you know, is a he's a good man. Put my dad down, but he was in the music industry and um, you know, he was delivering his life, and his story is different. He doesn't know his dad. Okay, so it always falls down why these men are the way they are, yeah. But there's no excuse if you really want to be in your child's life. So, but the a lot of the women are cussing because there are the guys out there that are not stepping out, but we're not talking about the women that that don't side, yeah. And I feel like there's not an even playing ground on that side. We you know, everyone just bashes the dads.

SPEAKER_04 49:00

I hear you, and I feel like because obviously I speak to a lot of mums and I speak to a lot of dads as well. Like, I'm always saying, like, we're not here to put a dad down and point out what he doesn't do when we're talking about the weight that mum carries. It's a very different conversation because dads are carrying their own weight. Sorry, yeah, yeah. And also, we're in a day and age now where I think dads are meeting mums in the middle, you know? Like they're meeting them in the middle of the world.

SPEAKER_01 49:24

That's a great there's some great dads that are even questioning your parent. They're like, yo, I'm like, he's yeah, and I'm like, am I a rubbish for? Am I need to step up? Like, what's going on here? Like, so there are things that next level, but then we all, because obviously, I've not had a dad around like as much as I was when I was younger. He's around and we're very cool. So for me, I feel like I've broken the cycle. I've been with my child from zero to 18, you know what I mean? All the steps of the way, co-parent, and we've had our ups and downs with his mom, but we've managed to grow this child, and he's turned out to be an amazing, loving child, and we're proud of him. And yeah, and um so for me, I've broken the cycle. Yeah, you know what I mean. When I was my son's age, I was in prison. Do you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_04 50:11

So when you think about it, it's like, do you know what? No, what happens, man's winning. And I'm sure he will do better than me. Yeah, and but I feel like that's just that is the goal. And I feel like I look when I look at my daughter sometimes, I feel like, wow, what would I have been like if I had me as a mum? Not trying to say I'm the most amazing mum, but what I give her, I feel like have I fucked that, then and but then that's not the reason. The reason is for her to then go do great things.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

So we are breaking the chain that we're ending. Yeah, so that's cycle.

SPEAKER_04 50:41

That is commendable, like honestly. Okay, so listen, we listen, you have gem after gem after gem after jump. I know I'm sure. I want you to just give some of the listeners like one piece of advice that you would give them when juggling music and being a dad at the same time. Like, because I I remember, I can't remember who it was, I think there was a rapper one time, and I saw him, and to me, I felt like he was aging out, and it's like his son was in school and his son's friends were watching him on the YouTube, and it was very techy. Yeah, it wasn't like you know, like so. How would you is there like a cutoff age that you should you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 51:18

Like when you're on the come up, it's funny because I was still trying to think I'm cool to my son, and he'd be like, You're cool, you know, but I get away with it when I'm sending them birthday messages from big nasty Dave and all that. He's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, my dad's the man for that.

SPEAKER_00 51:34

You get me? But I think you are the guy.

SPEAKER_04 51:36

I'm not talking about that guy. I'm talking about yeah, you know, when you're at the stage where it this is it it's maybe not working.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Like, is there a time when you say Yeah, I I I think I personally think there's not a cut-off plan. I think we just need to add more things to the to the table. Okay, you could I just don't think that anyone should give up their passion. It might not make you money, it might not, you know, be where you

Getting married at 40 in Guam — and what he thought it was going to look like

SPEAKER_01 52:00

want to be within it, but I just feel that you you know you've got to bring other things to the table that kind of compensate for the other things that it's lacking, yeah, but still driving your passion if because that's what makes you tick. This is what therapy, this could be mental health stuff for people. It feeds the soul. It feeds the soul. You don't need the, yeah, but don't be like you can't just be out there blind. Because you will end up at the betting shop drinking tenants, and you will be the statistic.

SPEAKER_04 52:24

Tenants, you need a timeout, you need to time out for the tenants, man. Because I know my mum used to drink tenants of water. Oh, I'm sorry. I hear I hear that.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

Yeah, special brew. Oh, I'm cute.

SPEAKER_04 52:39

Then they said it's been amazing talking to you, right? Honestly, you have been an amazing guest, and I'm sure that people will listen to it and take a lot of gems. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

But just just to sorry to cut you, just to say that my advice is as being a um a father in the music industry, please. Time, it's all about time, it's about how you juggle your time. That's what I've learned. Don't, you know, from my first co-parent and no, for my first years of living with March Son, from up to three and a half years, which is very important, I feel like I didn't give enough time with his mum and as a family unit. And I think that's what I ended up chasing throughout afterwards and ended up making all the wrong decisions with all these different women. So do not end up in that situation. Please give time. It was you had it all set, but the timing was off, man. The timing was off for me, and I was still learning about myself. You know what I mean? So no, no, no fault to her. She was going for her own stuff, I was going through my own stuff internally, and my child was there, but I just didn't have the tools, like, you know, emotionally to deal with what was in front of me. Yeah, you know what I mean. And I think that if I had the tools, I would have been maybe a better father in that little gap. You know what I mean? But I got there and you know, got great wrong with my sons.

SPEAKER_04 53:52

You know what? As parents, one thing you have to understand is there's no such thing as a perfect parent. No. Like you're always gonna wanna, there's always gonna be something you could have done different, there's always gonna be something you could have done better. It's exactly how it's gonna be. And you can give your child the best start, and they're still gonna get to a stage where they probably need therapy and have to unpack some shit because something is. When I'm into therapy, my mum was like, Why? What happened? She like all these um like negative things are.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Oh, my family ban up therapist for that. No, I go for I I mean, I've got I've got a therapist, there's no there's no shade that's no shade. Yeah, because ah hello, I'll be walking on the edge like many a times on the edge. So I needed to bring myself together.

SPEAKER_04 54:34

So once you understand it, it makes you have a better understanding of what is in front of you. Absolutely. And I feel like that is gonna be for every child, no matter what your version is, though the children that all the money in the world, everything out, and it still will have issues.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

It's this is the world we're living in. 100%. And so I agree with that. And I'm proud of you for doing therapy, man. It's it's oh, the therapies was saved my life. Yeah. In many ways. In many ways, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:00

So no, I hear that. I feel like we need a part two. We don't know. Yeah, we definitely we definitely need a part two, we definitely need a part two. Well, I am going to I'm gonna try and do a close. I don't know how we close after that because that was magnificent. Thank you. I would like to say that after listening today to today's conversation, I'm sure you'll have taken something away with it. I want you to definitely check out Max Ordy's new project because it'd be on emotional intelligence, which is really fitting for the conversations that we had today. And I'm really looking forward to it. This is myself. Um, but yeah, I'm your host, Naya. This is the parent playbook by Tribe, and yeah, we'll see you on the other side. The parent playbook.