Ep 181. Pregnancy After Loss

Join us as we chat about and normalize the complex emotions of experiencing pregnancy after a loss. Learn some and practical steps, holistic care strategies and emotionally supportive recommendations to support your journey.

00:00 Introduction to Kelly and Tiffany's Podcast
01:11 Today's Topic: Pregnancy After Loss
02:22 Kelly's Nighttime Routine
08:04 Navigating Pregnancy After Miscarriage
15:53 Emotional and Physical Support During Pregnancy
24:37 Creating a Prenatal Plan
29:49 Conclusion and Resources
32:35 Supporting the Show


Links We Chat About


Courageously Expecting Book

Nurturing Hope Journal

Grief Guide

Previous Episode 144. Holistic Miscarriage Support

Due to Joy Miscarriage Support Gifts

Our Monthly Membership: SO MUCH more support found here!

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Transcript

0:00

Welcome to at Home with Kelly and Tiffany, where we share powerful tools, exciting education, and relatable views about holistic health, physiological birth, and thriving in the female body. We are home birth midwives in sunny San Diego. Passionate about the alternatives that give women control and confidence in health, in birth and in life. We've poured a lot of love into creating very in depth and high value offerings. A monthly membership, a physiological birth course, and holistic guides for the women who really want to dive all the way in. But this podcast. We want to bring zero cost information about health and natural birth and make these important topics accessible always. Your support of the show is also zero cost and means everything to us. When you leave a review, share an episode and join our newsletter. It really helps us keep this space open, ad free and full of honest, valuable conversations. Now let's dive into today's show. Okay. Welcome back to the at home with Kelly and Tiffany podcast. I am Kelly. And I'm Tiffany. And we are chatting today about pregnancy after loss, after some kind of loss miscarriage, walking through something really hard. In a previous pregnancy moving forward with a future pregnancy, and we're talking about this because it's, there's so much to it. There's not only just the physical aspect of getting pregnant again, being pregnant again, but also just the intense emotional, mental, spiritual impact that experience can have. And it really is a pregnancy that honestly is very different than others can be. It is, and we, you know, we highlight miscarriage as a common experience for women that is often stigmatized and handled privately, and that absolutely is its own little beast of a thing to have to navigate and walk through. But we kind of miss this little nuance of a follow-up pregnancy and the things that come along with that. So I'm excited to be able to share on that topic today. So we can share that information with listeners and other women. I hope it's a huge encouragement. But before we get started with that, Kelly, I know a couple of episodes ago I asked you to walk through your morning routine with us, and I've been dreaming about morning at your house. I think I'm just gonna come spend the night sometime so I can Yes. Do your morning routine. We please do. But give us. Pause. I will, I'll just, I'll show up with my sleeping bag. Walk me through your nighttime routine now, because these rhythms in our lives as women who are pursuing holistic health sometimes we get so caught up in the rigidity and the shoulds and the. The checklist that we miss, the rhythm aspect of how important it is to have some of these pieces in like. In a ritualistic way that folded in and morning and night kind of hem in our opportunities for as we wake up, getting some of those rhythms established as we go to sleep, kind of capping out the day with some intention. What is it like for you? What do you do before you go to bed? Maybe it's hours before bed, your nighttime routine starts. Maybe it's 15 minutes. Walk us through it. Yeah. As you just said that, it's funny because part of getting the morning sun in the morning actually is part of my nighttime routine technically.'cause it does help my circadian rhythm and all of that, which is just funny. So I never had a nighttime routine that was consistent by any means. Before I had my third baby and she was maybe like eight or nine months old. And we finally were like, she's, she was a terrible sleeper after two great sleepers. And so then I was like, I need some help. I need some sleep anchors. I need to be consistent in putting her to sleep in a way that let her know Hey, sleep is coming next. And then that wormed its way into my own head. And I was like, I think that's. I need too. I need some things that just associate, hey, now we're like winding down. Now our brain is gonna like, hopefully try to quiet itself. Now our body's gonna try to chill out, nervous system, all of that. And so, so I kind of began to be as, as consistent as possible within a season. That felt a little inconsistent, but now it's it's not technically as involved as my morning routine, but I don't necessarily need it to be. My nighttime always involves starting, like with my skincare first, and I say skincare, it's literally just oil cleansing with beef tallow at night. But the the oil cleansing part, like you put the hot little hand cloth on your face. It's one of my. Favorite parts of the day. It's literally a minute, but I'm like, oh yeah, this is like a little sauna for my face and it just feels so good. So I'll kind of get ready, get my, you know, teeth brushed, flossed, tongue scrape all of the things that I started to do for my oral health. And then that allows me to think like, okay, let me get dressed for bed. Let me get what I'm gonna get on. I always put on socks as I'm getting my pajamas on because that's an association for me that I'm gonna wear them while I sleep. But before I put those socks on, I am putting magnesium spray on my feet and on the back of my legs. Because again, that is a helpful thing for my sleep, but also just a helpful association for me. And then eventually as it gets a little bit closer to bedtime. I have a red light in my room that I'll use, you know, therapeutically, but at night I just turn it on and it's not like next to me or anything, but it's just sort of like the ambiance of the red light. That's what I pick up a book and I read too, and usually one of my kids is in bed with me also reading. And that is kind of how I end the day, either with them or without them. Is reading, falling asleep. Of course, a little bit earlier in there is like, you know, getting kids to sleep and all of those pieces too. And so sometimes that weaves its way into the, I'm reading, I'm taking a break, I'm putting them to sleep, I'm coming back and I'm reading kind of thing. So it's not quite as. Consistent, I guess, or rigid I suppose. But all of those things then help me, like once I'm able to close my book, put my earplugs in, I do have an eye mask. I've become very bougie, I guess as I've gotten older about sleep because I know how much it matters and I'm just more sensitive. So I, you know, I'm trying to and then depending on when I ate dinner, I'll also have a little snack right before bed if I need to too. Or like some magnesium tea and throw some collagen or something in there too for a little boost of protein to. Help my sleep. So, that is like generally nighttime for me, depending on like what else is going on in our lives or what just happened in the evening, you know, with our day. But that's kind of what I do. Okay. Let's say you come home from a birth in the middle of the night and you're out of routine, you're out of that structure of just already being at home or like you come home late from a date night or something like that, right? What are like three things that no matter when you're going to bed, you're not gonna miss? Oil cleansing on my face. Magnesium on my feet. And maybe sometimes I might miss reading, but even if it's late sometimes, even if it's just a page, I'll try to get that in because that really does help me fall asleep quite a bit. But I guess if not that, almost always the red light turns on too, just to set the somewhat terrifying but calming mood. It does have a certain red glow that's a little creepy till you get used to it. That's awesome. Yeah, so that's, you almost exactly described my nighttime routine too, and that's probably just'cause we talk about these things all the time and we love sleep and we're midwives who don't always get all the sleep all the time and. When we do, it's just so very precious. So, so precious. Okay. Let's jump right into our topic today. I think the first thing that happens for women as they're starting to think about pro pregnancy after loss or after miscarriage is, and not for everybody but women we have talked to, have this overwhelming piece to sort out that is. Shame, guilt, the weight of responsibility for what happened in their body and was it their fault? And is there anything that they can do to prevent it? And so I wanna briefly encapsulate some of those pieces, some of those topics because I know that's on everyone's minds, but there's so much more that we are going to discuss. This is not an episode about preventing. Miscarriage. But we know that miscarriage is often not preventable, especially with things that your body is trying to sort out for you as just a non-viable pregnancy. And it doesn't mean that loss is any less important. It doesn't mean that life is any less significant because it has. Chromosomal abnormalities or some other thing about this sweet little baby was not gonna make it compatible for life. But that piece we don't have a whole lot of control over. And it was really interesting for me recently to have a conversation with another midwife friend who started to drop progesterone on all of her clients and. Because there's, because the risk, the miscarriage risk is on the rise in her practice especially. But I think we've seen that happening. And, you know, in our dealings and interactions with our clients too. And so she started drawing progesterone right away on her clients to see if they're low. Then she can offer some support to them with progesterone supplementation. But what we started talking about is this piece of, well. If you're, if the body was already trying to kind of handle this non-viable pregnancy and then we're adding progesterone in to the mix, are we artificially trying to preserve a pregnancy that shouldn't continue? And so that's some food for thought there. I know that's really heavy and kind of deep, but. It's something that has been on my mind recently. As we look at our options and we look at this idea of preventing miscarriage I'm all about, you know, trying to preserve healthy pregnancies, but there's an element of mystery that we just can't possibly know, and that. The idea of surrender and trust and being present in the moment and supporting our bodies in the most, you know, natural and foundational ways possible could be the way to go as you start to go. If you start to kind of spiral down the rabbit hole of what can I do? I need to do everything possible. So we will talk a little bit about how that kind of interplays throughout the entire pregnancy, but strategies that can support the whole body that. That may not necessarily get all, wrapped into trying to control or trying to, you know, safeguard all of the, all the things that could be happening in your body is totally fair and approachable. Things that support health, things that help support natural fertility. Of course, there's no approach that guarantees that you're gonna be able to. Event miscarriage, but coming from it from a whole root perspective and just for the sake of those who are listening now, you know, kind of eating up some of this information. If you're listening before your next pregnancy, you've already experienced a loss and you're just trying to process how to move forward inside of this potential prevention space. It is definitely worth looking into things like autoimmune disorders, PCOS, maybe some chronic infection issues that are happening in your body. Thyroid, M-T-H-F-R testing. These are all things that should sort of be on women's radars if it feels right for them to take a little bit more clinical approach to preventing a future miscarriage. Yeah, and gosh, it's so hard because even just this week on Instagram, I probably got three separate messages of just like, Hey. I'm pregnant again after this loss. And now all of, I didn't realize how scared I was. And I didn't realize how I had this opportunity to like look into things after this loss. And now I have it. And now I'm like, oh gosh, should I make the wrong decision? Should I have looked into these things and like. Just like you were saying, it's a smorgasbord of options that you have. Some people will be like, oh, I love information. And some people are like, that is not the way my brain is going to feel safest moving forward. And that's perfectly fine. So being able to say like, this is individual, of course. That. You can make the decisions that feel right for you, like that is perfectly acceptable in any situation, right? But what becomes hard is, so say you, you know, have experienced a miscarriage a loss, and you're moving forward with pregnancy again, pro you, you've probably processed that loss, pretty deeply at that point. But all of a sudden that gets brought up again, right? It's kind of in your face that like, oh gosh, yes. That grief, that struggle. It's kind of back in my face again because I'm experiencing a somewhat similar. Potentially triggering kind of situation. So miscarriage is complicated enough, right? There's a lot going on there. But then when we add in a pregnancy after miscarriage it, there's just so many layers of just really complex experiences and feelings. And things that you may think that you are like, wow, I can't believe my brain went there. And so, we're mostly just saying this so that you are not surprised by that or if you are experiencing that yourself, to know that you are absolutely not alone in how complicated and complex the emotional. Mental spiritual aspect is to this experience. And so normalizing a little bit of that mix of experience when, or like emotions too where you're like, I'm so excited. I am, we've wanted a baby. I'm really excited about this baby. I have hope that this is going to like work out. I'm so thankful that I'm pregnant again. That's like in the one hand, right? And then in the other hand, there's probably a lot of anxiety, a lot of grief that you're holding at the same time. And when we hold two separate things, like, birth is really good, birth is really hard, right? We can hold those two things and they both can be true. It just can be really uncomfortable to sit with the reality that both are true at the same time. Like that simultaneous just oh wow. I'm the mix of emotions that I'm feeling all are valid and okay and true. They're just very different at the same time. I just want to normalize that piece for you because that is something that most women will experience whether they say that out loud to someone else or publicly or whatever. It definitely is a pretty common thing, but recognizing upfront, if you are pregnant there's no right way to go about processing or kind of walking through all of this. There's not like a, okay, we're not gonna give you the 10 steps to being pregnant after Miss'cause it's there, it's just not realistic, right? Everybody's experience is so different. The way that they're processing is so different. And then what you're feeling when you first get pregnant versus week six versus week 12, right? All of those things. That may change and may evolve a lot over the course of your pregnancy. And so, it's very common at the beginning of the pregnancy to have a lot of anxiety, a lot of fear. And as you move forward in your pregnancy, slipping into a little bit more hope. But then like the reality of meeting your baby and your closer to your due date anxiety can, you know, kind of kick back up again. And so it's a bit of a rollercoaster as you're walking that and being able to have somebody that you can kind of talk to. Process with whether it's a group of people or a really trusted friend or therapist or, it's finding somebody that you can kind of anchor onto to, to kind of process and hold space with you for that stuff is really important.'cause recognizing that you are not alone in it, I think is one of the biggest helps. You mentioned Tiff, at the beginning, all of these women, like it's a very common experience to go through a pregnancy loss and that it sucks. That reality is really hard. But we don't always talk about the processing of that, and we don't always talk about this particular experience of allowing your body and your mind and your heart to feel some hope again while also. Being like I am like crippled with anxiety also at the same time. And so recognizing that you're not the only person experiencing that, and it's okay to talk about some of those, like I feel this way and also this way. I had a really great, you know, day here and a really terrible one here. And the highs and the lows, just being able to actually. Process. Talk about the reality of that, saying that, man I wish I could have met that baby. Like, that is heartbreaking for a mom to not be able to meet her baby. But I'm also still so excited about meeting this baby. And just the reality again of holding those two separate things can feel like a lot, but finding safe people to process with is gonna be super important along the way. Okay. Yeah, and I am, there are excellent physicians out there. There's excellent obs out there who get this and who are able to take extra time and be compassionate. But if you find yourself wanting more individualized care more compassion, more time to process some of these things, the midwifery model is. Really good at that. So I'm plugging that in. For ladies who are trying to figure out who would those people be? Who are the safe people who are gonna give me time to process, who are gonna, who are not gonna say, oh, you wanna talk about that again? Oh, that's coming up. I thought we already went through that. I thought we already talked about that. The emotional lens. Of this type of pregnancy is just really varied and wide, and the spectrum is really huge. I mean, women have fear of experiencing another loss, so we have to hold that in one hand. The what ifs the thoughts, those emotional triggers that come up. There's guilt for not being over the loss and feeling badly about processing. More of that grief in this current pregnancy that could feel unfair to this new baby. Or guilt for feeling joy again. Does that somehow mask or cover up the hold, the holding space for that baby? The baby that was lost there's sometimes this association with. Grief is the only way to remember that baby. And so if I start to feel happy again about this future pregnancy or this future baby am I wrong for being happy and excited about this next pregnancy when my only way of feeling, close and connected to the previous pregnancy is just being sad and grieving. There's also a big piece that I think sometimes takes women by surprise of navigating testing that's available to them. I mean, we alluded a little bit to that in the prevention piece, but certain milestones, certain appointments, those are very those can be treacherous places because, you know, and we're, we even are walking through this with a client right now who's like, I don't think I'm gonna be ready for an official midwifery appointment with you guys until I get to, till I get past the place of when I lost the last baby. I just, I need to protect that space. I'm not ready to be excited. I'm not ready to have both feet in until I hit that point. That's just what I need and I'm so glad that she was able to say that and we can provide her support and touching base and be celebrating milestones with her while she waits for the right time to engage in like official midwifery care. Totally. Appreciate that. But there's some things like. HCG testing that's gonna measure, you know, how onboard pregnancy hormones are. Progesterone we talked about. That's you know, low progesterone is a serious issue in women's fertility right now. Do you want to monitor that? Do you want early ultrasound? Is that going to be really helpful? And does knowing this information, help you to trust, put you at ease? Or does it the exact opposite? What are you gonna do with that information? Is genetic testing important to you? Does it help to have that information about this about things that we could potentially be able to capture in this pregnancy for some women who would normally say. I'm not interested in testing. I don't want that extra information. That's not important to me. Walking through a loss, being on the other side of it could totally, and we've seen this a lot, find themselves in the place where they're like, well, old me would not have wanted to have this information. Knew me, is absolutely completely desperate and grasping for anything that is going to give me some reassurance and. There's no right or wrong way to navigate that. It is completely valid to find yourself having to make decisions in a different way in this pregnancy than you would have in the last. There's this aspect of grieving the past while you're carrying life in the present and knowing the potential of what that loss can feel like.'cause you've already gone through it. You just have different, you have different information in your own heart and mind to navigate. And so practicing being present, saying things like, today I am pregnant. Today, this baby is loved. And just refocusing back on the future can be really helpful. And then thinking too about how to navigate interactions with other people that is so loaded, right? And can really take you by surprise. Depending on how much someone else knows about your history, maybe nothing at all. You might wanna prepare yourself. For things ahead of time, like when people say, are you so excited? Or is this your first? Maybe your very, maybe your first pregnancy was a loss and nobody knows about it, and then you have to figure out how to an answer, honestly, someone saying. Oh my gosh, congratulations. Your first pregnancy and then you're like, it, is it on? Is it on? Honest to continue that conversation. Does this a, is this a safe person to share that with? But you know, there's, that's, it can feel everyone's gonna have a different preference of navigating some of those, what seem like really harmless comments and conversation that can come up with anyone from a stranger to your, you know, your best friend or your mother-in-law or somebody, right? And so I think that can be really helpful to keep some of those things in mind as you just are caring for yourself emotionally in this special type of pregnancy. Yeah. I'm thinking of a friend of mine who was asked, she was sharing on Instagram, so she has shared very outwardly about her grief and her experience, and she was asked while she was somewhere with her older kids. You know, oh, like are these all of your kids? Do you have like are you have these three, or whatever it was. And in that moment, she had not quite prepared herself and she began crying and was like, no. And of course this person who was just. Trying to ask a question to make some, you know, friendly talk at the park kind of thing. Then also started crying and she was like, these aren't all my kids either. And they're talking about their losses together. And I was like, wow, what an incredible, like, that obviously doesn't always happen like that and you don't need, like, nobody's owed that kind of information from you, right? But it took her by surprise.'cause she was like, I was just gonna be like, yeah, these are my kids and I'm gonna move on'cause I don't know you. But what a sweet. Interaction. It ended up being, again, not saying that's gonna happen all of the time, but it was an opportunity for both of them to be like, wow, this is weird. This is kind of crazy to kind of be walking this road and look at that. I'm not alone, in walking that as well. So I think what you were mentioning about just like having a few of those things in your back pocket to be like, okay, I can say this, how do I feel about this? You know, processing yourself beforehand can be so helpful, especially as you move into this next pregnancy, but also as you're like creating that sort of emotional plan for yourself, creating a. Prenatal plan and like you mentioned, certainly there are wonderful obs, there are great midwives and even if you decide like, Hey, I don't necessarily wanna GI have my baby at home, you can still see mid midwife midwives from midwifery care to get some of that support as well. But creating this prenatal plan for yourself. What do I, how do I want to be taken care of? Who do I want to be taken care of by? Who's going to be the holder and container for some of these pieces to allow me to process well? But understanding your emotional needs in that space is just as important as understanding your clinical needs. Absolutely. And so if you've experienced different types of care in your life, especially, you know, a medical model versus midwifery model. You may feel like, Ooh, more information, more clinical, better. Or you may feel like, oh, what I really need is this emotional piece while also being supported clinically. And so again, that's gonna be a personal preference for you. But then being willing to support your body, to connect with your body and to do the same with your baby, right? To say, yes, I am pregnant. Oh, what is this baby doing? Am I feeling movement? Oh, I'm starting to feel nauseous. What is this, you know, mean? And this man's, you know, X, y, z to me in my heart? But being able to say like, yes, this is what I'm actually feeling. Physically too can be a really helpful piece. Because yes, so much of it is emotional, but so much of this experience is physical as well. And you may have really varying degrees of acceptance on some of that and kind of relationship with your body as you walk through this next pregnancy. And again, saying that out loud because that would not be an uncommon experience, and I think as we consider some of the pieces as we're taking care of women who have had you know, they're pregnant again after a loss of some kind we're constantly thinking about. How can we reduce some of just that no matter what, when you're grieving or you have experienced loss, there's a bit more, tension that is held in your body, in your nervous system, right? And so how can we help you release some of that, reduce some of that stress? So we're thinking about like, does this mom, like, does she need some adaptogens on board? What is his, her nervous system regulation, you know, consistency. Like is she moving her body? How is her sleep? And so asking all of these many different questions to try to get some answers so that we can say like, okay, yes, movement is great. Her supplementation is wonderful, but her sleep is terrible. You know, nervous system regulation is kind of out of whack. And so how can we support that? How can we kind of, help her into a space where she's able to kind of be at home in her body a little bit more. That matters so much. And then moving forward, as we're talking about some of these like clinical care pieces certainly. Some of these same recommendations are given across all pregnancies, right? Like we wanna really be focused on blood sugar balancing and magnesium, because so many women are deficient in magnesium. It's a great one to have on board. B vitamins. What is her iron stores like, and does she need some extra iron supplementation, omegas, vitamin D, right? All of these things. And especially it depends on. When that pregnancy was that first pregnancy or that last pregnancy where you did experience loss? When did that happen? Because there may be a lot of depletion that's still going on while you are pregnant in this next pregnancy. And so sometimes we have to work a little bit harder on these vitamins, on these minerals to help support mom. And all of a sudden she's like, oh, it's like that, you know, brain fog is lifted that I didn't really even realize I had. Because her body's starting to say, oh, thank you. I really needed that. All of that, right? The emotional aspect of processing and that mental and spiritual aspect of processing, but also this clinical care aspect of processing and supporting your body where it's at right now in this pregnancy after that previous loss that this pregnancy right now as well. Yeah, and I think as we like talk about holding space for the changing emotions that duality, the juxtaposition of like grief and joy and holding both in your hand, being aware of that as you approach your birth too. And maybe there will be some new emotions or new level of things to be discussing with your birth team and your partner. And just allowing. Allowing some of that to come to the surface. But I think the earlier in your pregnancy that you can acknowledge this feels a little more complicated, this feels a little more complex, and start to process that and be present with it, the better it is going to be for your birth, for your acceptance of this pregnancy, for the way that you want to greet this baby and enjoy this baby. And be present with what is actually happening is, I think it's so important for women who are navigating all types of grief that are happening inside of their pregnancies. Maybe you lost a parent during, you know. This time in your life and that's coming up for you. You know, there's so many ways that, that we can hold space for grief and be also anticipating a really joyful and connected birth experience for you. For women who are looking for a little bit more support and handholding we can put some resources inside of the show notes that can lead you to some books that we really like on grief. Some resources for connecting to like, support groups in your area. Some of those types of things because there are some really great. Things out there. But we also have this particular concept of holding this space physically, emotionally, and mentally inside of our monthly women's health membership. Whether you're navigating loss right now, whether you're trying for pregnancy again, or you just need to feel like you're not alone with some of these pieces, we have. Really gentle evidence-based guidance for root cause healing, how to maximize fertility, how to support your early pregnancy. We don't have all of that inside of our childbirth education course because we keep it housed in our membership. And so it's a really low, low cost and easy entry way to get support at this for this specific time in your life. We have the emphasis on supportive rhythms for nervous health nervous system health, hormone health, and then just a community of women who see you and remind you that you're not broken, you're not alone, your story matters. And some of those pieces can just feel so redeeming and life-giving. When you don't feel like you're navigating something completely by yourself or maybe the people in your real life don't get it, or they have their own things to be processing their own associations to deal with, it can be really helpful sometimes to have a specific goal with a different group or with a different, in a different platform. And so we offer that inside of our. Membership so you guys can get into the show notes to get some of those resources. Those of you who are looking for more of that information, we'll also include, we have a checklist for women who are preparing for pregnancy that just kind of goes through some really basic like timeline pieces. At what point should you consider this type of testing before you get pregnant? At what point should you start supplementing these kinds of things in preparation for the healthiest pregnancy possible? And so. We hope that you find something here that has been a help to you and a gift to you, and that you are able to pass that this episode on to somebody else who potentially needs to hear some of these truths and be reminded of how normal and experience like this can be and how we can be normalizing it for ourselves and for the women around us too. Yeah, so we will catch you next week on another topic, but again, check out the show notes for all kinds of resources that will hopefully help you on your journey. Hey ladies, if you're loving the show and want to help us keep it ad free so we can keep talking about all things birth and women's health, without cutting to an ad about electrolytes or grass fed beef sticks, here is how you can support us. First, leave us a quick review or a rating. It helps more women, new moms, and birth enthusiasts find our show. And it honestly means so much to us to be reminded that you love what we are doing here. Second, share this episode with a friend, with a doula buddy, or anyone who is on their own holistic health or natural birth journey. And third hop on our newsletter list. This is where we share. Bonus goodies behind the scenes stuff. Fun little extras you just won't hear on the show. You can find that link to join in our show notes below. Thanks so much for being a part of this growing empowered community. We could not do it without you.