Behind the Paddle
Welcome to "Behind the Paddle", the podcast that explores the fascinating world of sex across a wide spectrum of topics; from LGBTQ+ and feminine power, to kink, sex work and the adult industry. We aim to inform, inspire and entertain, featuring expert interviews, compelling stories, and thought provoking discussions.
Join Porcelain Victoria (a very experienced Pro-Dominatrix of 8yrs) on a funny and wonderfully truthful look at the world through the lens of a BDSM practitioner working in the sex industry.
She will also be answering listeners questions about real-life queries which will be discussed on the podcast. These can be sent in via email or through any
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Email: behindthepaddlepodcast(at)gmail.com
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Behind the Paddle
E18: Client Etiquette Part 2
In this episode, Emily Sin continues to interview Porcelain Victoria, a professional dominatrix and sex worker, to explore the dynamics of client etiquette in the world of BDSM and sex work. Victoria shares candid insights into her experiences, discussing the fine line between a respectful client and one that crosses boundaries. With real-life stories from her work, she delves into what makes an ideal client—respectful, communicative, and mindful of consent—versus the challenges posed by her most difficult encounters. Tune in for an open, eye-opening conversation on etiquette, boundaries, and the realities of her profession.
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Thank you so much for listening 💖
Hi and welcome to Behind the Paddle. This is actually gonna be part two of the client etiquette. Because we filmed so much of it.
Speaker 02:Well it's important. It's important. There was a lot to say. There was a lot to say.
Speaker 01:I know. I I I have a lot of stories. Um but yeah, I'm I'm sure there is more to do a client etiquette as well. But yeah. This is part two. Just the intro. And then it will resume. Exactly. Like usually when it is our first meet, I will describe what I'm doing and what things I'm using on you. And it c it like it's not a lecture, but I want you to be aware of what you're using. Oh, totally. And how it can affect you and then what it can do to you and things like that.
Speaker 02:It gives them a better idea, like what they enjoy and stuff as well. So they're not just like blindly feeling sensations and like no knowing what's going on. Exactly. Especially if it's new to them. Like, no, I think that's like a good way to go about it. They can actually ask you the next time.
Speaker 01:Yeah. And the question some mo most guys have is like, oh, can I come twice and whatnot?
Speaker 02:Uh-huh.
Speaker 01:And it's like, yeah, you absolutely can. You you paid for the time with me. Yeah. So yeah, you can come whenever. And then usually I ask, if you feel like you're gonna come, do you want to come there and then? Yeah. Or do you want me to edge you or something like that? So they're like the main things which I comment on. I don't know if there's I'm trying to think now if there's been any parts of me meeting somebody where it just really, really hasn't wanted to plan just meeting them. Oh in escorting.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:There'll be guys who come through the door and they'll even before they've handed you the money, they will just lav you in kisses and cuddles and things, which pay me first, please. Yeah. Give me my money.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Because I want to know that you actually have the money before you touch the merchandise, basically. Totally. That's like totally fair. I remember in my rookie days when I first started out, um, I would do car meets a lot. Yeah. Because, you know, clearly there's nothing wrong with car meets. Yeah. Nothing can go wrong with that. No. Um, the way I used to do my pricing was a bit different back then. And it would be if you want to touch this, if you want to do this, it's more and more and things added on.
Speaker 02:Like Merloy Kamen kind of thing, where it's like Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 01:Where it's like you can pay for this and then you can pay for that. Yeah. And there was this one client who was like, I want everything, but he would say it when it was happening, um, if that makes any sense. Like he would want to touch my boobs and then explore other places. Yeah. He'll he was like, I'll pay you later, I'll pay you afterwards. Yeah. And he actually went to the cash machine. He was like, Oh, I've only got this much. Here you go. And he didn't pay my full rate.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:And he was like, Oh, you've got my car reg, it's fine. And I was like, For God's sake, it's ridiculous. They it's very, very sad to realise the amount of grown ass men which took advantage of like an 18-year-old, or maybe a bit younger, but like an 18-year-old who was just in started in the business. Yeah. Um, because there was one guy who I had an overnight with, and he never ended up paying me for that overnight. Really? And this was a guy in his late 30s who like put on the romance and things and was absolutely so rude. Yeah. And then ended up like blocking me and whatnot. So rude.
Speaker 02:He thought he deserved a free night because he was handsome.
Speaker 01:He was far from fucking handsome.
Speaker 02:I didn't see what I thought I was saying, he thought. Very, very. Yeah.
Speaker 01:I mean, I don't know, I've not seen the guy, but Oh, I can't I can't remember what his name was or anything. Um, but just the fact that men can do that to women. Yeah. It's such a harsh reality. So definitely when you walk in, you pay the person. Yeah. You pay the provider first. Yeah. No matter what.
Speaker 02:Um that's like non-negotiable. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 01:Unless discussed otherwise. Come in normal clothing. Don't come dress up as a sissy or in kink gear.
Speaker 02:Yeah. Especially if you're like meeting in a hotel or whatever. Because that's like Yep. That's shitty just walking down the street. But like that's gonna draw attention.
Speaker 01:Yeah, and some subs do this because it's their kink.
Speaker 02:Yeah, and they like to feel like humiliated, like quiet. Yeah. I can see that.
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 02:But yeah. Um we never really touched on equipment too much, so like is it quite common that people kind of expect you to have like X, Y, and Z, like give you really detailed like scenarios where they move like you wear in certain coloursy things, and like you've got to kind of try and like be like, mate, I've got like this, this, and this. Yeah. And that's it. Or whatever.
Speaker 01:Like that, yeah. I've had that before where a client's like, I want you to wear this, I want you to do this, I I want you to have this specific thing, and I'm like, okay, you you're gonna pay for that then. You're gonna give me the money and I'll order it. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, they're there are absolutely a client's like that because they'll they'll want something that I don't have.
Speaker 02:Yeah, they've got like a fantasy in their head and like everything's laid out in it, and they just want that exactly. Yeah, like the Which is fine, but they can pay for it.
Speaker 01:Yeah. Yeah. Like they there was a guy who wanted like a police uniform. Yeah.
Speaker 02:And when I was like a real one, or like just like uh like Ansumers as close to real as possible. Yeah.
Speaker 01:And once I was like, Well, you can pay for it. Yeah, he was like, Oh no. I was like, Well, I'm not gonna spend half of the money you're giving me to go out and find a decent uniform or something. But you might never wear again. Exactly, exactly. And I I absolutely love the clients who will buy me things they want me to use, especially if it's like in videos or in-person meets, because I have had quite a lot of stuff purchased by subs. Yeah. Which again, it just gets you in the good books. It sounds like an ideal setup, like absolutely. I mean, there have been clients who have bought me things, got in the good books, and then fucked up and have gone bye-bye. So it's not the situation of oh, if you buy me something, you'll forever be in my good books.
Speaker 02:The bad stuff, exactly.
Speaker 01:Yeah, um what else? Yeah, there will be clients who want me to use a certain thing, and I'm like, well, I don't have that, you're gonna have to pay for it.
Speaker 02:The thing is, like would you would you use equipment a qu a client brought themselves? Yeah, like and took away with them again.
Speaker 01:That's absolutely fine, yeah.
Speaker 02:Like if it's something they're in, they could just buy it and just have it for them. Like, I'm not I'm not suggesting they shouldn't be buying it for you, they a million percent should, but like if they're uncomfortable with that, like if that's something that they're gonna be using regularly, why not just clients turn up and they've got like their own sissy clothes, they've got their own dildos that they like to use.
Speaker 01:Yeah, especially with dildos, it's like if you've got something that makes you pleasurable down there, yeah, bring it. Use it. I I absolutely encourage people to bring their own toys and to bring what they are familiar with so it can make them more comfortable, yeah.
Speaker 02:Could be their resecurity blanket, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 01:Up their ass. Yeah. But yeah, they are more than welcome to bring their own stuff. I know that they, especially if it's a dungeon, they assume that it's gonna be fully well equipped.
Speaker 02:Yeah. But not every there's probably not one dungeon in the world that has everything. There's not be enough space. There's so much stuff like mine was so good. Oh, yours was amazing.
Speaker 01:I'm not but I mean, if if you could actually pick out something that I didn't have, I'd be very surprised. Um yeah, because there's been a few clients where they've like, oh, I want to do like suspension or heavy bondage, and I'm like, sadly, the dungeon that I've booked does not have like heavy bondage or good suspension points and things like that. So sometimes it's just not possible.
Speaker 02:Fell in the form. Like, yeah, fell in the form and you won't be disappointed.
Speaker 01:But yeah, um, yeah, some clients do, especially when it comes to outfits and things. Yeah. Where people are like, oh, could I have like an escort session with latex? I'm like, absolutely, I will wear a skirt. Yeah, I won't wear a cat suit or anything like that because if it rips, I then have to pay 400 pounds for like a new cat suit or something, and they are expensive.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:When it comes to sessions like that, I do tell the clients, are you gonna pay for it if it breaks?
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:And they go, Oh no. And I'm just like, well, no, I'm not gonna do a session where a particular outfit could break.
Speaker 02:Yeah. So I Especially if that outfit costs more than the sessions paying. Exactly. Like, why would you risk that? It just doesn't make sense. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 01:It just doesn't. Um so if they're not prepared to pay the cost, then I will wear like a safety latex outfit, yeah, where I'll be able to do like face sitting on or do whatever I'm doing in that session, and it'll be like a mini latex skirt or something, or a cutout skirt or something like that. Yeah, but yeah. If you if you're not prepared to pay for something which will break in session, then I'm not I'm not wearing it. It's very simple. Latex is expensive, and there may be mistresses out there or sex workers out there who will still happily wear it without getting um paid for it if it breaks. That's up to them. Yeah. For for me, no, you will pay for it if it breaks.
Speaker 02:Yeah, everybody's different, everybody's got their own boundaries, and that is totally fine. That's how it should be.
Speaker 01:Like if a toy breaks, depending on the toy, um then they don't have to pay for it because I broke it.
Speaker 02:Exact it's you that's using it. Yeah. And latex is just fragile. It is, absolutely. Like the the risk of that breaking so much higher than any of the toys.
Speaker 01:Yeah. I remember when I yeah, like if if something breaks and it is your fault, you will pay for it. So yeah.
Speaker 02:Um, what about changing what they've asked for mid-seen? Is that something that you've kind of encountered before? And how how would you handle that?
Speaker 01:Oh, absolutely. Like, especially when somebody's booked like a two-hour session and they don't want to do like pegging anymore, that's like an hour gone. Yeah. And it's like, what do I fill with that now? What do you want to do? So yeah, that's absolutely happened where somebody doesn't feel like they're in the mood, especially if it is a certain kink like um adult baby or pegging or one that has like any mind, like a heat space attached to it kind of thing. Yeah, like being a sissy.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Or oh, I remember one time I never saw him again. Oh my god. When I first moved to Scotland, there was a sub who liked being called Piggy and he liked doing domestics and things. Like our Meepal. Just a wee bit, yeah. Are we gonna have the same one? Yeah, yeah. Dark fans. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
Speaker 02:If you have no, we've got to f you humiliated them. I was just having a laugh, and it was great fun.
Speaker 01:So if you want to get humiliated by us, um you can reach out and we will take your tribute and we will do a lovely video on humiliating you basically. Yeah, it'll be very, very fun. And you will then see on our dark fans, which you can um subscribe to, and that is behind the paddle, I believe.
Speaker 02:We've also not done the we spiel at the start, where we are now we're in lovely lingerie, which the video of which will only be available on dark fans.
Speaker 01:So if you want to check that out. Yeah, you can wink to us while we talk about this. Client etiquette. Yeah, oh yeah. You better tip us while you do that. But yeah, um, there was a guy, and I remember he was on his hands and knees, he was cleaning the cupboards or something, yeah, and I spat on him. Uh-huh. And then he was like, Mistress, I'm really not in the mood today. Oh, right. I don't really feel submissive right now, so I'm just gonna leave. And I was like, Oh, have I just done something wrong? Yeah, like I felt like I've just destroyed my career, basically. It was like shit, because like he let me keep the money and things, yeah. Um, and I don't believe I ever saw him again. Oh, really? Yeah, um, but yeah, he just wasn't in the mood at all, which is absolutely fine. They're all that you you have to have the mind space of wanting to be submissive and just in the headspace.
Speaker 02:I think especially like I don't know, like speaking as someone that's a switch, like sometimes like I think I'm in a submissive mood, and then I'm like, oh no.
Speaker 01:Absolutely no no no, and I'm like, don't you fucking do it can be it can be much much harder when you're a switch, and I I can absolutely uh resonate with that, and it's just it's just one of those things where it's like if you have come to a session which is planned and you don't feel like you are in that right headspace, that's fine. Yeah, I won't be postponing the session, I won't be uh moving the session.
Speaker 02:Yeah, but would you change the session so in that scenario say somebody's come came in, these have sat down, these have done the pre-talk, you've started like a submissive session, and then they've went, oh I'm not the mid. Like, are you happy for that to change to like an escort session, for example?
Speaker 01:If they pay me for that, yes.
Speaker 02:Yeah, like I know that yeah, cool.
Speaker 01:Yeah, if we discuss it there and then, and I'm comfortable with that, yes.
Speaker 02:Yeah, but there's another discussion needed, it's not just like boom, yeah. Yeah, then he's gonna be able to do that. There's another talk happening, basically. If it's changing, like if it's changing vastly through what you've initially discussed, and the money's changing, there's a free talk.
Speaker 01:Absolutely, yeah. The like if because with this job you have to learn people's face facial expressions, the way they move. If I see like a a little bit of something not good, um in the ways of like it's not pleasant, it's uncomfortable, or just they're not really in the mood. Yeah, then we will absolutely have a talk and we can be like, Do you want to turn this into like a therapy session?
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Do you want to just talk? Do you wanna um chill and like watch a movie or something like that?
Speaker 02:Do you want to try and like work through it or totally?
Speaker 01:Yeah, because there has been times where people have just wanted to push through and just sat right on the edge of that line, yeah. Yeah, and it's like sometimes they get the results they want. Sometimes I could do something say like slap them or spit on them or peg them, and it just makes them switch, yeah. In the in the sense of like, yes, I'm now submissive. Yeah, yeah. So like they could get triggered in a certain way, or the client could get like PTSD or freaked out in some way, and like they could not be in the mood anymore.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Like, um, I have had instances where pegging just hasn't went right, or something happened and it just knocks them out of that mood, yeah, which is absolutely fine. Um it it happens. We can absolutely have a talk, yeah, but you will not receive a refund. Yeah. Because you have paid for that time.
Speaker 02:Yeah, totally. It's still taking up your time.
Speaker 01:Yeah, it's like when a guy has come. For some guys it that they're done, they're over. And that's up to you if you want to get ahead of yourself or if you think you can come twice, but actually you can't. And if they want to if they choose to leave early by their own accord, you're welcome to do that. You've paid for my time. That's what you've paid for. Yeah. So if you want to leave, that's fine, but you will not get a refund. I've had I've had people in the past who have said, Oh, because I left early, can it can I get a refund or can it go towards my uh next session? I'm like, no, because you paid for my time. Yeah. It was your choice to leave. Yeah. It wasn't mine.
Speaker 02:And especially with like out calls and stuff, like people don't take into consideration that like you have travel, you have childcare, you have like other costs on top of like you maybe wouldn't have took that book in if it was any less time than the time that you've agreed to to make it worth your time actually getting there and getting back and stuff.
Speaker 01:So like Yeah, my my client last night was absolutely amazing. They messaged me the day before and was just like, Hey, I I'm at this place for the outcall. Are you available? And like I didn't get a notification, so I didn't look at it in time and whatnot. So I messaged them back and I was like, Oh, sorry, I didn't get a notification. Are you free tonight and whatnot? They got back to me very quickly, and they were actually American and they didn't live here, so we discussed a deposit, we discussed like Amazon, but he sent me the Amazon.com uh gift card instead of.co.uk, so he had to get it refunded and then process a new Amazon gift card, but then his Amazon gift card uh account actually went on hold because he was American and not from the UK, they thought it was like fraud or something like that.
Speaker 02:Which makes total sense, sadly, yeah.
Speaker 01:And then what was it? And then I was like, oh, use Etsy, and then Etsy worked, so it took like an hour, an hour and a half, but we eventually got there. Yeah, and like I had to figure out childcare and whatnot, so that took a good few hours. So I think the session was at like 10 and at like six I got the gift card and things like that, so and that was the deposit. Yes, I do take gift cards, I understand other people don't, but I like to buy things online. Yeah, I I I'm able to pay my bills at the end of the month, so yeah, a gift card doesn't hurt. Yeah. Um but yeah, so working with the client and he did not lose interest, yeah, which is always great because there's been people who they try and do the gift card or some sort of deposit, and they're either lying, faking it, or they're just not that interested to the point of going through all the effort.
Speaker 02:Yeah, yeah. When we hurdle and that's them.
Speaker 01:Yep, that's I'm done. They they can't do it. It's too much effort for them.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Um, but yeah, it would lovely session, everything like that. That that makes me go, this person's serious. Yeah. And they seem lovely because they've gone to this effort to do that.
Speaker 02:Um what about aftercare? Is that kinda something I would expect that to be within the paid amount of time, but is it something that you get asked for a lot? Is it something that you kinda offer everybody? And or what's the challenge?
Speaker 01:I offer I don't usually offer it to escort clients because they're there to do one thing and they they know the goal, basically. It's not that emotional, at least my connections with people, because I'm not going on a lot of dates with people. Usually it is just they've paid for my time for a specific and once we're done, we're done, basically. Um if they want aftercare, that's absolutely fine. Some people don't realise they are ha doing aftercare, especially when it is an escort meet, because they'll just talk. They'll they'll just talk and talk and talk, which is fine. I I know one particular person who listens to this who after the deeds happened, they'll just talk, or they will talk all throughout the time. Yeah. And that's absolutely fine. It it it genuinely is such a form of being a psychiatrist in a life. Oh, totally. Being, you know, a counselor, somebody who people talk to. Yeah, yeah. So I think there is a lack of knowledge about aftercare, especially in the BDSM industry.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Because the amount of times I've said to a client, do you require aftercare? And especially if I get that sort of vibe, I absolutely do ask them, just like, do you f do you think you want aftercare? And then they explain the different stages of aftercare and what different things people can do. Yeah. I had somebody who was well experienced in BDSM and they just said they went home to their partner and ate ice cream.
Speaker 02:Yeah. Like they did aftercare with their partner. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 01:Rather than the mistress.
Speaker 02:Yeah. Which I think is quite common at like play events and stuff. Because like I've I've always wondered that like if people are playing with like no random people, but like people that they don't live with, what's the chat with that? And the few people have asked, they're like, oh, I'll do it with my partner when we go home. And I'm like, that makes total sense. But obviously, no everybody's in that position, so yeah.
Speaker 01:Like aftercare for me, after doming somebody, I'll come home and I'll have a hot chocolate and I'll like snuggle up um on the sofa and things. Yeah. Like that's the sort of aftercare which I want to like keep routinely. Um you just have a wee bit you time. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, there will be people who I'm just like, do you want to colour in? And they're like, what? And I'm like, yeah, do you want to just chill? Colour in? Do you want to cuddle? Do you wanna sit there and just chill, basically? Do you want to hug? Do you just want to get a shower and leave? Or do you want to be alone? That is all absolutely up to you. Yeah. But I do think there is a lack of knowledge in BDSM. Uh probably even more in just vanilla meats because you just don't come across it.
Speaker 02:It's not really something that people speak about in like vanilla sex at all.
Speaker 01:I think it's very vulnerable. And some people, especially men, do not want to be vulnerable.
Speaker 02:Yeah. Because I they just they're like, oh, like I don't want to cuddle. Like I just want to be on. Because cuddle, that is like I'm not saying that there isn't aftercare, like that is what that is. Like that's like the the nice bonding time afterwards. But it's just not called that. So like people I it's maybe not even a term people have heard it before in that space.
Speaker 01:Um I I think no matter what type of relationship you're with somebody in, it's just nice because you are calming down the dopamine. Um serotonin and oxytocin, yeah.
Speaker 02:That's like the the one that like bonds you, and there's like a surplus of that, like after you've came, which is why like cuddling after sex like brings you closer together. Yes. Because it like forms the bond, like actually or like strengthens the bond.
unknown:Anyway.
Speaker 01:Well, I was about to say how people have sex and then they turn over and go on their phones or something like that.
Speaker 02:Because they don't want that like bond then thing.
Speaker 01:Yeah, yeah. Because it's a vulnerable place, like and that's how some relationships can break down.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Because they're not doing the cuddling. Or not doing the chemical, but exactly, yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
Speaker 01:So as cold as that sounds. That that it it just does it sometimes it just doesn't help, but it it can also just bring you closer to the person. Yeah. I I I just find it always nice afterwards. It's nice and calming and settling. Yeah. Yeah. And it does show um, hopefully, that if you are in a relationship with somebody, they're not just there for sex. Yeah. They're there for hopefully more than that. Depending on the relationship.
Speaker 02:Yeah. But yeah. So is it something that you actually get asked for? Or is it always kind of something that you've got to kind of like check in with?
Speaker 01:Usually check in with. Yeah. It does surprise me happily when somebody's like, I want to do aftercare and things. Yeah. But usually it's me teaching them or asking about if they want aftercare.
Speaker 02:But it's something that you always can offer. Yeah, usually. Like in in uh Dominatrix sessions anyway.
Speaker 01:Yeah, usually Dominatrix. There's like no speak usually when it's vanilla. Uh-huh. There's you you usually just like done.
Speaker 02:But yeah.
Speaker 01:Again, usually it's just usually there is just a we chat afterwards or something. Um yeah.
Speaker 02:Cool. Um we can I spoke a wee bit about exclusive earlier, so what does like any long-term like a client slash sub like look like for you? Like what like what's good etiquette to keep for that?
Speaker 01:Well for me.
Speaker 02:Or to get to there, sorry.
Speaker 01:Do you mean like in terms of like ownership or just I think potentially.
Speaker 02:I was meaning so like have you had any clients long term? Yes. Escort or dominatrix or both? Both. Both. Like what what's the etiquette for that? So like what is your ideal client and then what's your ideal sub in that scenario? Like, how are they behaving towards you that's like kept them in the good books for so long? For what a better way to put that.
Speaker 01:Client-wise, don't haggle.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:They the they the my regulars who I've seen don't haggle. Don't um get me something get me something on my birthday. Yeah. Yeah. That's nice. I don't necessarily mind if they go see somebody else because they're not my property. I they're not owned by me, they're not collared or anything like that. It it does, I guess, maybe hurt a wee bit, but at the end of the day, people have different ways of doing things. Yeah, totally. In terms of like different providers and stuff, so go for it. I I know that I change like nail technicians and things.
Speaker 02:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 01:Because each and every one of them has their own different style. Totally. So yeah, I would I would just just be polite. And if you this is a big one, if you are a f like a few hours before the book in or a few days before the book in, let the provider keep the money. Like you can come to an agreement and things, but if you let the provider keep all of the money, not necessarily just a deposit, and you don't start a fuss or anything like that, you're like, here, mistress. Um, or just you you keep that as like an apology that I can't make it. Yeah. Cool. You're in my good books, you are in my good books. Respect your time. Yeah.
Speaker 02:Yeah. What about like boundaries and stuff and in terms of like obviously it must be quite difficult keeping things so professional over a long term, like you're saying about your birthday and stuff like that feels like it's kind of starting to like meet somewhere in the middle a bit more. Like how do you balance that? How do you expect your sub uh sub slash clients to kind of balance that?
Speaker 01:Um don't go too crazy in the ways of I once had a client who became fantasised about me and romanticized.
Speaker 02:Uh-huh. And like in a relationship sense rather than just a client professional sense. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 01:Like always think as it like we're business partners in a way.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:In the way of like, you come to me, you're my client. And don't like possibly if we are that close, I would get you something for your birthday.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:For the client's birthday.
Speaker 02:But it really is because there's still a relationship there. And it can still be a good relationship. It can still be like one that you know when each other's birthdays are in maybe by, like you would for like a work colleague or whatever. Yeah. But it's just never gonna breach into that personal life side.
Speaker 01:Yeah, yeah. Like there is like uh a relationship in some sense and like a sort of friendship, but they're not coming over to meet my kid. Yeah. They're they're they're can that it can be with like submissive and things if it's like lifestyle, yeah, but I have not reached that with somebody, yeah.
Speaker 02:I like that's unknown ground at this point. Nobody's hit the points that you need them to to get to that place yet, exactly, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 01:Um yeah, so yeah, it would be don't don't be so personal because I did have a client who they would get me stuff for my birthday, and that was lovely, I absolutely adored it. And like for Christmas, but then it would warp his reality, and at one point, the last session I had with him, he gave me a card and it said that he loved me and he wanted to have a life with me. And in the session, he talks about how we were gonna have our first dance, a wedding, and I was gonna meet his parents, and his mum was gonna love me and things, yeah, and it was just like you're like just jokes, right? I it was so serious, and I was like, no, no, no. If I was attracted to him, that might have been a different story, you never know. But it was very much But that would be like you letting them know, exactly, exactly, and I think previously I had told this guy like it was getting uncomfortable because he had made remarks like that previously as well. Yeah, but there's been a good few instances where it has um made them think we possibly could be more and things so the pesky chemicals in their brain because I'm so good sub-wise. I would say lend yourself to your mistress whenever possible, basically. Oh, your mistress needs something picking up, or she needs the groceries, or she needs something paid for. Yeah, do it. It doesn't always have to be money-based as well. Yeah, it can be oh time and effort and skill-based exactly. Yeah, like I'm gonna help with the plumbing, or helping with wallpaper, or taking your dogs for a walk. Yeah, it can be something like that, absolutely. It does not have to be oh, you need to pay a hundred pounds, or you have to pay for these groceries. Like it's all out of like kindness, and it it when a submissive does not need something in return, yeah, out of the ordinary, you're on to a winner, basically. It's great.
Speaker 02:Like if they're playing like the long game rather than it being like, oh, I've just done this thing, like give me attention. Instant gratification from that. Because if they go and buy you groceries and expect that to mean a session, like they're trying to haggle and undercut you.
Speaker 01:I have had a client who used to buy me groceries and expect a session.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:And expect me to like piss on him and like shoot on him and stuff like that.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:And it was going okay. Like I tried it out, I'll try anything.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:So I try I tried it out, but he was he wanted too much. He wanted to do the bare minimum to get a session which was at least £100, and he was spending like not even 30 on groceries. Yeah. And I was like, you're there's no I like, what that there's just no point. Yeah. There's really no point of me doing this and possibly getting childcare and spending more money um on childcare than the groceries are worth. Yeah. Or just anything. My time is very precious, especially these days. Yeah. And so I don't need somebody to sit there and not necessarily waste it, but waste it.
Speaker 02:I mean they are wasting it. If it's not worth your time. Yeah. Then it's not worth your time and it's a wasted time. Yeah.
Speaker 01:Like if you are gonna do a job, do it fucking right.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Because I've had people who say, Oh, I could be your driver, and then they're late by like a fucking hour.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:And what they want in return with that is like a session or to massage you naked or something. And it's just like, no. No. And then you'll get the clients who try and guilt trip you.
Speaker 02:Yeah. Oh, will I give you a lift? So Yes.
Speaker 01:Is that what you mean? No. Yes, or my son's dying.
unknown:Sorry.
Speaker 02:Or my expecting you to say at all.
Speaker 01:Continue. Continue. My son died. My mum died. This is why my behaviour's like this. Yep. I've had all of this. Yeah. And I'm just like, no. If something in your life has caused you to act like this, why would I want you in my life? Yeah. Simple as. Yeah. And like you haven't told me what is happening during all this time, so I can't even support you or anything. I can't give you any help. Where was that in the pea talk? Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, people have literally used their dead disabled son as a reason to being a dick. And like their mum and other aspects of life. Yeah. And I'm just like, other people don't act like this. Why do you? Why why is this an extreme?
Speaker 02:Why are you getting like special treatment for this thing that happens?
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 02:Like it's sad. And then but it's not really my business or anything to do with anything. Yeah, exactly. You're another therapist. As much as like your services can help people work through things in a similar way.
Speaker 01:Yeah.
Speaker 02:That is not your job role. Exactly.
Speaker 01:Like And there has been a client where the same one who blamed his disabled son dying. Yeah. He was like, Oh, I've got a pension. I can't afford sessions. Yeah. And I was like, my fucking problem is, is it? Well, don't have sessions in. What are you speaking to me for? Yeah. And like there's there's been people who are like, oh, I'm on pip, like I can't afford it. And I'm like, I'm sorry, but like I I can't I can't give you a disability discount or something. Like I can't.
Speaker 02:There's charities that pay for that.
Speaker 01:Oh yeah.
Speaker 02:But I think it needs to be like people who would not have that experience otherwise. What do you mean? So like maybe somebody I don't even want to like say that now. I feel like I've trapped myself in this. Like people who are like in like units and stuff who got like 24-hour care. Yeah.
Speaker 01:Like I think it's like people Oh yeah, who have like a care round thing.
Speaker 02:Yeah, like where they're not like living independently. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah.
Speaker 01:Yep, absolutely. I understand that. Yeah. That is, yeah, a thing. Um but yeah, and this particular client would be like, oh, I I only have my pension. However, he would have a full-time job of being like a taxi driver.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:And like go golfing and things. And it's like, so you can afford that and like have a big fuck off van or and a nice car, but you can't afford a session with me.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Doesn't really add up, mate. Doesn't really add up. And it's like, if you really want a session with me, you save up. I just save up. Like in a s like, yeah, you save up or you do something that would benefit me, like walk my dogs or clean my garden. Like, you know, do something that would benefit me, and you don't have to pay me. We can come to that agreement, absolutely. But you need to have that respect and it needs to be agreed beforehand.
Speaker 02:That's not like a you offer to do a thing and then expect that's a conversation.
Speaker 01:And I I don't want you to message me and be like, oh mistress, I can do this for you. Okay. I didn't ask for it.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:I I I I would prefer a relationship of sorts first rather than I could do this.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:I could do that.
Speaker 02:Or you put stuff out on Twitter to be like, I need this, like, wait for that. Follow you in socials. Like keep an eye out and see something that you need.
Speaker 01:Yeah. Yeah. Earn it first. Um, yeah, like a like a good little subby the other day. Um, we will be releasing like a little bonus episode on a wee little interview style style.
Speaker 02:Yeah.
Speaker 01:Um, that we had with one of my subs. And out of like his kindness, he went out and bought me a drill set, yeah. And like a full-on drill, which was like 150? Mm-hmm. 150? Something like that. More than that. Um, because I needed it, and he just did that out of the kindness, and he delivered it and things. So yeah. Don't expect things in return. Don't make up uh what I like to call excuses. Yeah. Don't don't sell yourself short. Just don't make yourself look pathetic just to possibly get a discount or something for free. Yeah. I want a sub who actually sees the worth in himself or or themselves rather than I'm pathetic, I can't pay for this or whatnot.
Speaker 02:Yeah, okay. Then don't speak to me, will we?
Speaker 01:Exactly.
Speaker 02:Like cool. Um I think that is pretty much us, other than if you want today we spiel about how people can contact you.
Speaker 01:Oh, I do have my adult work, so Porcelain Victoria is the name which I go on a few um websites. Uh you can contact me on professional mistresses, my details are there. There is I think I'm not quite sure about that one actually. Um my Twitter, Mistress PD, you will find my links all there, everything on my links page.
Speaker 02:And which is also connected to the podcast links page, so it should be quite easy to find if you follow us on any social medias. It's all attached.
Speaker 01:So you will be able to get like my mobile number from one of those links, possibly possibly more than one. But yeah. Yeah, you can contact me there and um my own website, um, porcelain dolly.co.uk where you'll find the rates and the forms and my emails and things.
Speaker 02:Um as always, we've got a wee 10% discount for you guys at thesancuryofsin.com. If you use behind the paddle um at the checkout, you'll get that added to your basket. But other than that, thank you so much guys for listening. This has been the Behind the Paddle Podcast.
Speaker 01:Yeah. Thank you. Bye bye.
