01: Meet your host: Becoming bold, dreams for the pod, and of course, a spicy rejection story

Today, I am sharing my story of growing My Write Hand Woman, a verbal strategy + copywriting business, selling my agency, and working on a startup. We're also digging deep into what being bold really means and how I became a founder. I'm being interviewed by my close friend and fellow podcast host, Chelsea Turgeon. 

In this episode, we are covering:

• How I created my business in 90 days after realizing I didn't want a 'normal job'  
• How do you come back to your boldness in moments of failure and rejection?Realizing when you are not living in your truth and what routines and rituals help you stay in your power 
• Owning who you are or who you want to be and giving yourself permission to call yourself a founder
• My experience working in the startup world compared to the online businesses space And of course, some SPICY opinions on why they both need to change 

To connect with Chelsea:
Website
Instagram: @coachchelsmd
Her podcast: Life After Medicine 

Feeling the pull to have more of me in your world?

DM me on Instagram: @mywritehandwoman

Work on Your Messaging or Copy with Me: The Website

Find Your Brand Messaging Superpower: Take the Quiz

Sign Up for the Exact Factor Sprint

Transcript

Lucy: [00:00:00] The thing is, women, especially when they do assert their opinion or they get a little bit too loud, it does get them into trouble. And if you are trying to create a straight path, it's almost impossible to have both. You're not going to be able to be bold and also take a straight path. At some point, you're going to have to make a decision.

Lucy: It's choosing every single day, okay, I am going to show up as me. I'm going to speak my mind in every little detail of my day. So when big things happen, I can be bold. 

Lucy: Hi there, you're listening to The Bold Founder, where we inspire you to go bigger in your messaging, marketing mindset and moves while finding a joyful middle ground between intense hustle and easy flow.

Lucy: Today, you're going to be hearing about my story and my take on what it means to be a bold founder. I have one of my closest friends interviewing me, Chelsea Turgeon, and you guys are 

Lucy: going to love her. She used to be a doctor and then she In 2019, she left the [00:01:00] hustle and grind of her OB GYN residency to travel the world and create a life of freedom.

Lucy: She is a trained career coach, best selling author, digital nomad, and host of her own podcast Life After Medicine. I'm gonna put all of her links in the podcast notes and make sure you check her out.

Lucy: The undertone for where I want my mission to be with my entire life is helping women be bolder in their businesses and in their life. So I was thinking, okay, well it doesn't matter what companies I start, this podcast is gonna be that thread that brings everything together. 

Chelsea: Yeah. Why is it important for people to be bold?

Lucy: Because so much of what we decide to do that's important is impossible to do unless we dismantle a narrative, whether it's society's narrative or a narrative that we've created for ourselves through years of conditioning. So saying, Oh, I want to make [00:02:00] sure I fit in or don't ruffle any feathers. Okay. If you're creating a disruptive product by default, you're just. You're going to be ruffling feathers or even in your life if you're going to do something different than a pattern that you've done for 25 years, that in itself is bold too.

Lucy: So it goes so far beyond business. 

Chelsea: Yeah, and for you, did you ever have moments where, in your past, in your story, did you have moments where you were afraid to ruffle feathers or like you were conditioned to not do that? Or do you feel like you always had the ability to be bold? 

Lucy: It's funny because I think I was a bold person.

Lucy: child when I was actually three years old. I remember once my mom said something to me and I was like, why? Because you know, you're three. And she's, she just says to me, because I'm the mom. So you have to listen to me. And she said, I put my hands on my hips, looked her in the eye and said, well, I'm Lucy.

Lucy: And she said, from this moment, she's like, oh God, what did I give birth to? 

Chelsea: Okay. So you have this bold energy as a kid, but I think sometimes as a kid, it's easier for us really, [00:03:00] to understand societal messaging or conditioning? Like we have this innocence and like, that's like the essence of who we are. But then how did that sort of translate into your life as you're getting more into college and getting more into the workforce?

Chelsea: How were you able to keep that bold energy or were there times where society was telling you not to retain it? 

Lucy: Oh, I absolutely was not able to retain it. I like to say that this podcast, I hope you guys can all witness the becoming, not the became, because under no circumstance do I feel like I embody the bold founder every single day.

Lucy: I feel like it's something I have to work for and practice is my own boldness. Because moving through school and also growing up Middle Eastern American, there's so many things where you are rewarded for following the linear path and getting good grades and being a good girl or whatever you want to say.

Lucy: And then it got to the point where I was in college and interviewing for jobs and I had an [00:04:00] interview with what I thought was my dream company. I got out of the interview and you know, and you just feel like you crushed something that was me. And I was told that I won't be moving to further rounds because they thought my ideas were too innovative and I had too strong of a personality.

Lucy: And I remember thinking to myself, what, why don't you want innovators on your team? What are you like, what are you going for? And, but it was that, that I said that to a friend and he said, like, so innocently, he's saying, okay, if you want to get a corporate job, you're going to have to be less of yourself.

Lucy: You're going to have to be less extra. And. I could have just been like, screw you, screw that, but he was actually right because the thing is, women especially when they do assert their opinion or they get a little bit too loud and loud doesn't mean volume standing on a table belting out Britney Spears, it just means being unapologetic in their ideas.

Lucy: It does get them into trouble. And if you are trying to create a straight path, it's almost impossible to have both. Like you're not going to be able to be bold and [00:05:00] also take a straight path. At some point, you're going to have to make a decision. And these decisions aren't just like one big thing. Of course, you'll have a job interview or a client call or something, but it's choosing every single day.

Lucy: Okay. I am going to show up as me. I'm going to speak my mind in every little detail of my day. So when big things happen, I can be bold. Okay. 

Chelsea: Yeah. What were some of your innovative ideas? It was too much for them. Like we need to hear some specifics. The funny thing is they were so benign on the Lucy spectrum.

Lucy: I like to redid a process so it would be more efficient utilizing a different role that they weren't specifically hiring for. I mean, if you can say consultant within the lines idea, I was basically coloring with Sharpie and not even bringing in pastels to the conversation because it was so normal. And the fact that something that normal ruffled so many feathers [00:06:00] goes to show that.

Lucy: It's not your ideas, it's just the fact that you have the audacity to show up with ideas. So don't be so scared of coming at people with crazy ideas because just the sheer idea of having an idea that's outside of what someone wants you to say is the rebellion. So go big. 

Chelsea: And I love it because there is a lot of reality to it, right?

Chelsea: It's like, what are the consequences to being bold? And I think for any choice that we make in our life, it's like choices and then there's the consequences that we have to deal with. And so for you and your friend, like you don't move forward in the interview process and then your friend is telling you, Hey, like you got to tame it down to fit in to this corporate mold.

Chelsea: What is your decision at that point? 

Lucy: Truthfully, I was like, I'm a new college grad and I need to get a job, so I need to tone it down if I'm gonna actually put food on the table eventually. And I interviewed for other companies and I just remember being so [00:07:00] good, going back to that good girl that got straight A's at age 14, and just coming out of those interviews with job offers in hand, but feeling so good.

Lucy: Just knowing that I got this job offer, I remember once they said, what's your 10 year plan outside of work? And I said, Oh, I plan to be married with kids. And then I got out of that. And I'm like, wait, what? That seems such, if people want to be married with kids in 10 years, and that's like who they want to be like, great.

Lucy: But the real answer was, I want to travel the world and I want to see what's out there. And I don't want to take a linear path. And maybe those things will be part of my weird wavy path. But I gave such a societally desirable example because I was like, I need to get this job. I need something. And I actually ended up taking both those job offers and turning them down and telling my parents, hey, I'm going to start a business and I'm going to give myself 90 days.

Lucy: I'm going to work my ass off. And if I'm able to match [00:08:00] these proposed corporate salaries, I'm going to officially tell them no. And then that was the birth of My Right Hand Woman. 

Chelsea: I love that. I love that you also like to have a specific timeline, I think that you have these job offers, so then there's Sort of metrics to measure yourself against.

Chelsea: And there's like this motivation too. And I think for you, like the reason you were not wanting to take the job offers was just because it felt empty and it felt not right for you. Did you also have an idea already about wanting to start a business or like where did the business idea come from? 

Lucy: Yeah, I definitely did.

Lucy: I started a fashion styling business when I was a teenager for professional postpartum women, and it's so weird. I've always loved fashion. I studied fashion in Milan for a year, so I really thought fashion was going to be it for me. So I put my services up on Thumbtack. I was in suburban Maryland, like the safest place, working with the safest demographic.

Lucy: I would go into their house, clean their closet for them, and then we would go to this place called Montgomery Mall, which was 10 minutes away from my [00:09:00] house. I would drive them with my new license, and we would shop for clothes for like four hours for them. And then they would take pictures on their next date night with their husband and be like, thanks, I feel so confident.

Lucy: And it was really fun. fun. I remember loving that business, but your styling, I think I was charging like 30 to 50 an hour, which is pretty good for a 19 year old. But I knew that I was craving something a little bit bigger and also more flexible, especially post pandemic. When that travel bug hit me, I knew that this wasn't going to be my sustainable forever career.

Chelsea: Yeah. And so then how did, how did that go? So you have this sort of 90 day window to start a business. And was writing always something that was a part? Because my right hand woman is copywriting. And so where did the writing piece come in as well? 

Lucy: I should have seen the writing on the wall. I have been writing my whole life.

Lucy: I started my first journal when I was five years old. I wrote my first fiction story when I was seven or eight. 65 handwritten pages on [00:10:00] lined paper thrown out on the floor. My parents actually thought I was a serial killer. It was so creepy how much writing came out of this little body. And so it was always writing.

Lucy: I always should have known it was writing, especially because my degree was in marketing, but of course I didn't start there. I thought, okay, I meant to be a web designer or a graphic designer. So I would create stuff on Canva and it was. hideous. But the funny thing is people still hired me to create hideous stuff.

Lucy: And then I did social media and I was so bad at it. But the reason I'm saying people hired me to do these things is, to me, it was hideous and it wasn't my standard. But there were still people that didn't even know Canva existed. So the fact that I was creating a templated Canva graphic for them, they were delighted.

Lucy: So it's one of those things of, you know, We feel so much pressure to be an expert from the get go, but there're people who want you at your beginner and at your beginner rate and are happy to support you on your journey. But when I landed on writing, it's like a [00:11:00] glove or a shoe that you just slip right on and it fits.

Lucy: And then I knew I took on five, Clients for free and all of them just gave me I was expecting like some testimonials That's why I did it but such glowing testimonials things like you are meant for this That I just knew and then I took on my first paying client, which was crazy the first time I've ever been paid more than a thousand dollars and it was a Feminine weed accessory company up in Canada, and it was such a fun project And then from there I was able to I told myself I had to hit 60K, because that's what the job offer was for.

Lucy: And I hit 5, 000 a month consistently after the 90 days, which is what I told myself I needed to do. And then I was like, yeah, screw all these jobs that I had to not be myself to get an offer there. 

Chelsea: What did that sort of teach you about the concept of being yourself and the value that can bring? 

Lucy: I think it's one of those things where I took rejection really [00:12:00] hard.

Lucy: Another thing that happened was I took a part time remote job and I was fired from that job after 90 days. And ironically, for a very similar reason I was doing a lot of work that could be automated. So I just, I told the founder like, Hey, I'm happy to set up these systems. I think it could really help us.

Lucy: scale. And she told me basically get back in your lane. She just did it with a team of HR and a really awkward zoom call on a Monday morning where I was let go immediately. And I think I can talk about it from a standpoint of that's the best thing that ever happened to me because I'm so far removed from it.

Lucy: But when it happened, especially after getting rejected from that dream job, There was a part of me that said, "Am I just destined to never hold a job or never work or what am I missing? Why are all my friends getting six figures out of college as consultants? I got good grades too. Like what's wrong with me?

Lucy: I'll come to learn eventually that it's ADHD. Um, but you know, and it's really, it's tough because I think I want to give back. Grace to that girl, [00:13:00] too, who is struggling. And I learned that any place that tells you to be less of yourself is a place you need to run away from. But that's not what I felt immediately after those rejections.

Chelsea: Yeah. And I think that's a huge difference is in hindsight, you can paint this beautiful story of, Oh, and then this thing happened and it was the perfect catalyst for this. But it's like when you're in it, it does not feel like that. And so I think that's really important to zoom in on if the way it feels in the moment is.

Chelsea: Rejection. Not good enough. Totally. Doubting yourself. Like, will I ever be able to be successful? What's wrong with me? It looks like and feels like all of those things at the moment. So that's why I think it's also incredible that you're starting this podcast now in the journey, in the beginning. So that you're documenting things as they're happening, not from this hindsight perspective of, Oh, and then it all worked out, and this led to this, and it's really cool to have that ability to zoom in, like, while [00:14:00] it's happening and to really unpack, like, what is going on in the moment.

Lucy: Totally. I mean, I wish I could be sitting here being like, I created the next Snapchat and now we're going to talk about being a founder. But the truth is, I feel really happy with where I am at in my journey. I mean, you know, we talked about my styling business, didn't know that'd be an episode one thing.

Lucy: And then I have my right hand woman, which I was able to scale up crazily in that 2021 2022 boom, hitting 30 to 50 K months in revenue as a 21 year old, I was like, Oh my gosh, like someone pinched me. Then I started an agency, sold that agency in under a year and then worked on a tech startup for a little bit.

Lucy: So my, my experience is so diverse, but I also know that there's so much in store for me, and that's why I love talking about becoming, because I know there's a world where I have multiple companies. I'm an investor. My right hand woman grows and so many women are able to become. bolder simply just by sitting at the table and realizing there's another way.

Chelsea: Yeah, but let's go back [00:15:00] to the moments of the fallout because I think this is really important too of like we said at the beginning it's like when you're bold there are consequences just for lack of a better word there and so for you you have you're having these consequences like you don't get the initial job offers you get fired from a part time job there's these pieces that it's so easy at that point to tell these stories.

Chelsea: of the like, I'm not good enough, there's something wrong with me, I need to tone it down. It's so easy to just go there. So for you in those moments, how do you process that? And how do you like, not stay away from those stories, but how do you be sure to not encode those stories? Like, I'm not good enough, and come back into your boldness in those moments.

Lucy: Yeah, it's really tough because I think we're often told that story of I'm not enough. But when you start to be bold, that story actually flips into I'm too much. And I sometimes think that's the one that's not talked about as much, but for women who are naturally stronger or have big [00:16:00] ideas, that's the one that creeps up.

Lucy: So I think it, whenever you see. Say, and I love that like we're having this conversation because that's your specialty is like pulling people out of these stories. Because for me, I think I would get so wrapped up in these stories to the point that I was like, okay, if I'm going to live this lifestyle, I'm going to need to start doing mindset work.

Lucy: It's going to the gym. It's just going to need to be an everyday pull up the journal stay because it's not a one and done because things are always going to test you and stretch you and okay, you're going to make it over one hurdle, maybe three months. goes by after getting fired and you're thinking, okay, I think I'm, I think I'm feeling okay after that.

Lucy: But then you move into a new company and someone makes a pass at you and you're like trying to raise funding and then it's boom, like you're back to that. Oh my gosh, I showed up weirdly or I said that weirdly, or they probably think I am going to be hard to work with or whatever the story is. So it is one of those things that.

Lucy: When you're [00:17:00] in the depths of it, healing from that exact moment, but also realizing you're always going to be in the depths of it. And I don't say that to be dark and doomy and gloomy, but I say that because if you are a founder who keeps being bold and keep stretching, you're just going to keep making bigger moves and it's just going to keep getting harder and you're just going to keep rising to the plate.

Chelsea: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it's just so real, right? It's not that there's ever a point where you're like, Oh, I fully recovered now. I completely embody boldness all the time. It's like what you were saying at the beginning is creating this podcast. It's almost like you're creating your own hero archetype for yourself because I think we all have this really bold, strong version of us, but we have to continually be reminded of it and step back into it because society is going Tell us all of these reasons why we don't need to fit into that.

Chelsea: And so what is your process for just anchoring back into, and I think now this podcast will be part of the process for anchoring back into it, but like previously up until [00:18:00] now, how have you sort of anchored back into I 

Lucy: think the most powerful practice I got into was recognizing when I'm not living in my truth, when I get out of an interaction with someone that makes me feel really terrible, or when I launch something in my business and it just doesn't feel exactly right or I make a decision and something's just off.

Lucy: I think the first step is just being brutally honest with yourself. How did I show up today? Did I show up as I want to be? How did I feel when I showed up like that? Because if you're not able to recognize when you're submitting to what society wants you to be versus when you are in your fully expressed self as a founder, it's really hard to make any of those shifts and changes.

Lucy: So I think recognition is always what I'm anchoring back into is just reflecting on the day and then whatever you need for your process to feel good. Like for me, I listen to really dancey EDM and I just, Dance it out for 5 [00:19:00] minutes at 4, 10 p. m. if I need to. And whatever it takes, whether you need to get into your body, into your mind, into your spirituality, it's just anything that reminds you of your power brings you back to your core.

Lucy: And just temporarily muting out all of those voices in the background is gonna help as tangible action steps to move into your boldness. 

Chelsea: Yeah. And for you, is that something that you have a sacred every night you sit down and you journal or do you have specific routines and rituals that you're holding on to or what does that sort of look like in your day?

Chelsea: Or is it just whenever you notice that something feels off, you do it in a reactive way. Obviously it's not going to be perfect either way, but like, do you have certain things that you generally tend to do? 

Lucy: I honestly think I'm keeping the whole sticker economy alive. I have an agenda book that I've basically turned into memory planning.

Lucy: And I just sticker that thing up literally every single day, as I mentioned in the beginning of this podcast. For [00:20:00] me, mindset work is, it's discipline. It's something I show up for every day. It's not, you know, a pill that I pop when I notice there's problems. It's definitely preventative. And so that's what I do.

Lucy: I make it fun. I put my stickers all over my book and if I need to unpack something a little bit deeper, then that's where I take to the kind of boring journal where I'll pour it all out in a stream of consciousness. 

Chelsea: Yeah. And so while we're also talking through your story, we talked through the beginning of my right hand woman and how that has changed and you said you also were in a tech startup for a bit.

Chelsea: Do you want to talk a little bit about your experience with that? 

Lucy: Yeah, so essentially, I was working with someone else on a tech startup. It was to find your friends around the world. And ultimately, it ended up not panning out as many startups do. But for so long, I had been in like the online space with service based businesses and coaches and it's very women centric and anyone who's in this space knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Lucy: And then I went to a very masculine [00:21:00] masculine, like we're going to build a startup world with someone who embodied, you know, he was, he had done like YC and just was totally in that world. So I was able to, in this time, Just completely swing the pendulum, and there's definitely things I want to fix in both worlds.

Lucy: But I think what was so beautiful about my experience in a tech startup is I just got a whole new lens and a whole new perspective on how business can be done. As I move back into my right hand woman, but still have my eye on tech because it's so fun and, and different and it moves so quickly. And my goal is to marry the two because both have so much beauty.

Lucy: I mean, this like easy, I just sneeze and make seven figures is not realistic. But also like I work 24 hours a day and take ice showers doesn't sound so great either. So, where can we find that middle ground? Where can we marry that hustle, that flow, that masculine, that feminine, so businesses can be built in a sustainable way?

Chelsea: Okay, on a day to day basis, because I think it is so fascinating as a digital nomad also, [00:22:00] I am very much in the, there's the bro mad, bro marketing world and like that whole thing. And so I definitely see the hustle culture and then, like you said, online and the Instagram coaching space. Soft, feminine.

Chelsea: There's benefits to both, but I think there's also harm to going to the extreme in both. And so I think having that grounded perspective is so helpful. For you, what was the most different thing or maybe the most jarring thing about going from the feminine kind of coaching world into the masculine startup world?

Lucy: I think just the pessimism, for lack of a better word, and I like, I mean this with love. I know startups fail. I know it's a pressure cooker environment. I know this Pollyanna view of abundance and it's going to be fine is not always the time and place. But as I was talking to founders and just the intensity that things are approached with and, Oh, we need to do this, or we need to do this, or this is how the experts would say, there's a lot of.

Lucy: There's a lot of looking up to people who've done it before, which is great. But it's, it's particularly intense about startups of this is what builds onto this. And there's like a rigidity [00:23:00] to it. Whereas coming from that online space with more service based businesses, it was very free to, you know, if you can create something that people buy and people see value in, like more power to you, like that's the path.

Lucy: So I think it was that rigidity that was the biggest day to day. But at the same time, it really encouraged me to I don't want to say lean out of my intuition because that sounds like a massive red flag, but lean out of it a little bit and start reading and taking in data and doing things in a way that was so different than my process for building My Right Hand Woman.

Chelsea: Yeah, I think there is something really interesting about taking time to learn the rules of the domain and like taking time to learn how it's done so that within the structure, like when you know how it's done, I think it's actually, Your ability to innovate is amplified. There's power to coming in completely naive and having no idea what's going on and like dropping some ideas, but I think that only goes so far.

Chelsea: I think it's like when you really know the rules of the [00:24:00] game and then you can bring your intuition in. To break them from there. I think there's just something really powerful about that. 

Lucy: For sure. The fact that my homework was to just read books by really inspiring people was great. There's especially when it comes to startups, there's so much information out there.

Lucy: I mean, the online kind of service base is a little bit of a newer industry, but people have been. Starting things from the ground up for years and you can have so much reading from just this entirely new world that I had been shielded from so I think it really rounded out my experience as a founder and made me feel more More complete, for lack of a better word, because now I have, I have more lenses to approach problems from.

Chelsea: Yeah. What are some of the big takeaways from just that learning experience, from going into the books and like seeing how other people have done things? Are there any big takeaways from that kind of immersive experience? 

Lucy: For sure. I think so much [00:25:00] can be automated is the biggest takeaway I would say.

Lucy: I have strong feelings about AI, especially being in the copywriting space, but when it comes to utilizing tools. Like, wow, we really can supercharge our productivity if we just take an afternoon every single week to learn what's out there and what's new and what's hot. The second thing is staying lean.

Lucy: And my right hand woman, I was very quick to hire and hire well and spend a lot of money to do it well. And then when it comes to a startup, because you're not profitable as quickly as you are, as with a service based business, there's a lot more rolling up your sleeves and being scrappy. And I think that's incredible.

Lucy: should adopt just being able to do everything and not ever think you're above any task. The third one is just, I think there's some magic in startup culture in like that level of we're going to build something huge and that being the belief because I think often and we can dig into this in a little bit later of the episode, but [00:26:00] when we are a woman starting something we are so.

Lucy: Scared to call ourselves a founder or say, I'm gonna build a unicorn, or I'm gonna build something that's gonna get funding. We say things like, I'm a mompreneur, I'm a solopreneur. I'm in my girl boss era, creating something. But truthfully, if you are creating a company or you're creating a company that you expect to be something outside of you, even if that means you just have a small team, you are a founder, and don't be afraid to say the word that you are.

Chelsea: Yeah. And so for you, why is it? The word founder, such an important distinction. What does it do for you to claim that? 

Lucy: It's actually funny because I had so much imposter syndrome starting this podcast specifically for the name. And at first I really thought it was bold. I was like, Oh man, am I really going to use the word bold?

Lucy: Like I'm not bold. Some days I like wearing PJs, just trying to do my admin tasks. But it actually was the word founder because so many, Women were like, oh, such a cool podcast. [00:27:00] I'm definitely gonna listen in even though I don't think I'm your target demographic. And then I was like, wait, you're, you're starting like a tech company.

Lucy: What do you mean you're not my demographic? So I think. At first I was thinking about changing it because the copywriter in me was like, speak to your target market. But then I'm like, no, I'm not going to change it because I assume men and women are going to be listening to this, but I want to make sure the women who are listening to this feel called up to wear this name with pride.

Lucy: Pride. If you started something that has the potential to become something outside of you, or even if you started something, even if it's a service based business and you have frameworks and processes and things that are more than just your expertise, you started a company, you started a business, you are a female founder, whatever the word you want to use is, that's the title.

Lucy: And I think the reason I'm so passionate about people using titles, if you want to be a mompreneur, is because you want to go get coffee with a bunch of other mompreneurs and it helps you find community. Great. But it's also giving that permission slip to actually [00:28:00] use the title the same way it gives you a permission slip.

Lucy: If you're not a founder to apply for the job, if you have 30 percent of the bullets. Marked not a hundred percent because as women we feel like we need to be so uber overqualified just to use the bare minimum of titles or make the move and I hope this podcast shows you that you can move messy You can claim the title even if you don't have the result of the top 0.

Lucy: 01 percent I'm not gonna be the next founder of snapchat before I start using that title I'm gonna use it now and it's a matter of obviously being Realistic. We don't want to completely deceive people and say, I'm the CEO of a fortune 500 company if you're running like a web design studio, but this is full permission to use the titles that you actually are and not feel like you have to water them down.

Chelsea: Yeah, it's like a version of identity work. It's almost like we stunt our ability to grow into who we want to become if we [00:29:00] don't let ourselves use the language what feels like prematurely. Exactly. If we don't claim the identity that we want to be, if we don't say it and start referring to ourselves as that, like it, it feels so weird for me to say I was an entrepreneur.

Chelsea: Like initially I also had imposter syndrome when I was a digital nomad. It was so weird. Like my first week I was in Vietnam and I had, I don't know, I think I had made like one sale in my business, maybe two sales. It was less than 3, 000. And I was also teaching English and. I was like in Vietnam.

Chelsea: There was a digital nomad hub there, but I didn't know anyone. I just got there and knew zero people. And I'd go to a cafe and open my laptop and I was like, people are going to know that I haven't really made money in my business yet. Like, it was so weird. I was like, people are going to know I have no idea what I'm doing as a digital nomad.

Chelsea: So I'm like on my laptop typing, but looking around, feeling like everyone's like looking at me, like nobody cares. But it took me a while and having conversations initially at meetups and cafes with all of the dudes. I remember it went on a date. with this one supermarketing dude, and [00:30:00] he's like, what are your KPIs?

Chelsea: And I was like, 

Speaker 2: Wait, what? 

Chelsea: And I felt like just such an imposter talking about business around these guys. Even then there came a time where even I didn't know all the technical lingo, like I was making more money than some of them at some point. And then I still felt like an imposter. So it was just really interesting that sometimes you just have to claim your identity.

Chelsea: Even if you don't feel like you embody it yet, and it's like the claiming of it can help you start to really embody who you want to become. 

Lucy: Oh, totally. And I also have this belief that if anyone wants to shame you for not knowing, I'm willing to bet you're going to blow past them in results in the next three years because no one who's actually good at what they do or has done anything successful has any reason to tear you down and make you feel dumb.

Lucy: When I ask people who they are, I consider them like eons ahead of me, quote unquote dumb questions, they are the first [00:31:00] people to break it down so beautifully and pull me up with them. Um, so that's just. Just a side note because I think it's really easy to get out of an interaction with someone that we're like, Oh my gosh, we perceive them to be successful, but maybe they're just loud and own a microphone or have a podcast.

Lucy: It's so easy to fake knowledge and have this platform these days that I think it's really important that we go through the feedback that we're getting and ask ourselves, who is this coming from and what place is it coming from and not let it shake the identity in our heart that we know to be true.

Chelsea: Yeah, what was coming to me as you were talking was just like insecurity is loud. I think in women, it's not always like, I think we can be really small in our insecurity, but I think sometimes like within the more masculine energy, I think their insecurity can sometimes come off as really loud. It's like coming from that place of insecurity as opposed to true, like mastery of what they have accomplished.

Lucy: For sure, and I think it's one of those things of there's definitely [00:32:00] also a little bit of fake it till you make it I think when it comes to starting a business, like I said earlier in the episode There are people who want to buy from your business or your startup right now in its ugly beta phase and its Minimum product in your beginner era, whatever you want to call it.

Lucy: There's people who want to be the first person. They're out there. So don't feel like you have to hit this level to start getting bolder and start talking about your product. Start talking about it now. Start getting people because if you keep waiting for this certain level where you feel confident enough or where the insecurity demons just magically die off, you're never gonna do it.

Chelsea: Yeah, it's like the start before you're ready kind of mentality to where it's like, ready is not a real thing. Like you're never going to feel ready when you're doing something new. And so there is just a confidence that comes from action and like iteration and movement. 

Lucy: Yeah, move messy is like what [00:33:00] I always say make it so ugly get on that sales call and butcher it like you You have to do things so badly and then usually you're gonna be so hard on yourself But sometimes that butchered sales call the person comes back after 20 minutes and it's like, okay these parts I like didn't love but overall I like this.

Lucy: Can we negotiate? You never know what someone's thinking or how something's gonna go You But if you do nothing because you don't feel like you belong in the room, then you're never going to get into the room. 

Chelsea: And so I think we talked about more like the tech startup space and like the, not the problems there, but like we talked about the way the masculine energy dominates there and the pros and cons of that sort of energy.

Chelsea: But then what about for you from the more like feminine space being in that, what are some of the ways that. Is really powerful. And then what are some of the ways that sort of missing and needs a little more activation? 

Lucy: Yeah, I started my right hand [00:34:00] woman to target women specifically because I actually, I started that from a place of insecurity.

Lucy: It's only until I gained some traction, I realized, Oh no, I actually like, I love women. I want to keep working with women and helping them be bolder. But in the beginning, I had gotten a few sales calls with men and they were probably men in their 60s that were running very traditional companies. You know, anyone who's seen me is like, girl, why was that your target market?

Lucy: And on these calls, I just felt like I was being questioned. Someone asked me why I didn't have a master's and I just felt like a lot was getting brought to the attention and being a 21 year old woman. I was just like, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I'm cut out for this. And then I found this more insulated online space of women and just immediately felt at home.

Lucy: And I think the magic of this space is in collaboration. I've never seen a group of people who are more willing to help each other out and collaborate. Elevate [00:35:00] each other. It's in the breaking of limiting beliefs. I saw so many limiting beliefs in the startup world. And the thing is they're kind of sneaky.

Lucy: Cause they're rooted in like, well, this is how it is, or this is what the data says. But at the end of the day, it's fear. And I think there are so many of these online. business owners in that service based field, they are actively doing the work on themselves and it shows in their businesses. And then the third thing is just flow.

Lucy: There's so much being talked about, if you're not happy, change it. And we are given this.

Lucy: And when I tell people I love my job and I say it with a straight face, I mean, I said this to you. They looked at me like I eat infants because we have been fed this narrative that, like, work is not fun. It is work. So those are the three main things that I think the online space does beautifully and actually has such a leg up than more traditional business narrative.

Chelsea: Yeah, I think that that's so [00:36:00] important to have the mindset piece and to have the ability to just bring a different energy. It doesn't even have to be that you're doing the task differently. You're doing the same task, but if you do it with an energy of excitement or flow or possibility, it can just change everything.

Chelsea: So it's not as much even like what you're doing, but how you're doing it and really emphasizing. What do you feel like within the feminine flow coaching world, what's missing there? Where does the feminine sort of not always cut it? 

Lucy: I think in transparency, as someone who works with coaches who are pulling in 100, 200k in profit per month, it happens.

Lucy: People aren't lying. These businesses are actually being built and they're actually being built. But because so much of it's being created in podcasts and in the open and on Instagram and X or whatever platforms people are using, it makes it feel like that's available to everyone. And it's the same as [00:37:00] startups.

Lucy: There's going to be so many coaching businesses that fail the same way that there's so many startups that fail. So I think you can show. The best of the best, but I wish there was more conversation of what did it take to get here? And, and just being open and honest about that the same way that the startup world is a little more pessimistic.

Lucy: I'm not saying we need to bring that pessimism to the online space. I think that can really stay over there. But I think it just comes down to not keeping this view of, Oh my gosh, like everyone can do it if they just do it this way, because it's not true. And that's a big thing for me is that transparency piece of I was able to scale a business.

Lucy: My clients are scaling rapidly. Like it does happen, but wow, does a tremendous amount of work go into getting them to that level where they are able to take the foot off the gas. 

Chelsea: Yeah, an almost glorifying ease to the point where You feel weird about working hard and like actually putting energy and effort [00:38:00] into something.

Chelsea: Is that something that you've noticed too? 

Lucy: Yeah. I think it's one of those things where I think there should be ease. I think if there's friction or bad feelings in your business, something's wrong, even in your startup, even when it's in the worst, you're down in the trenches, you're having a hard time getting users on.

Lucy: If there's friction, like something's wrong. And often you have to go back to the drawing board and ask yourself, why is there friction? But you can have ease and not have friction and still work an 18 hour day. It's just the difference of is it going to be a miserable 18 hour day where you're not moving the needle at all?

Lucy: Or is it an 18 hour day where you're shifting and moving and there's momentum and you're thinking, okay, I think I feel clear. I think there's direction. This is what I need to do. And now I need to roll up my sleeves and I need to work. 

Chelsea: Yes. It's not like the absence of work, but it's how you're approaching work and what's happening within the work.

Chelsea: So it's anytime there is. Friction and things feel unnecessarily hard. It's questioning that and wondering, [00:39:00] like, does it need to be this hard? Like, does this friction mean we're going in the wrong direction or something needs to be troubleshooted in some way? And, like, not letting it be unnecessarily suffering hard, but then also allowing There to be output and exertion and effort put forth.

Lucy: Yeah, I talk about like the online coaching space sometimes glorifying ease when I kind of strip it down so much more now as being talked about what it took for someone to get somewhere and, and I feel fortunate that this like, If you're not having an amazing one hour workday every day, you might as well just go pack it up.

Lucy: That kind of marketing really, it just doesn't survive in 2024. So we are also seeing shifts in that space too. I absolutely think the startup world could benefit from a little bit more, okay, we're really pushing up against a concrete wall here. Like what needs to change? 

Chelsea: Yeah. And so I think it's, it's so cool how you have, your journey and your story has taken you into Kind of both worlds and then your ability to [00:40:00] just be bold and move messy is helping you start to bring it together and create this podcast.

Chelsea: So what do you hope that people get from listening to this podcast? What is that thing you want them to take away? 

Lucy: Yeah, when, when I think of the person who's listening to The Bold Founder, I'm pretty clear on that it is for founders and people starting businesses. But if you're listening to this episode, it means that you have a desire for more to achieve more.

Lucy: My hope is for anyone listening to this episode, if you are a founder, if you're not, you've made it to a good part of this episode. And it's really for anyone who feels called to move bigger in their business and their companies and their life through utilizing mostly messaging and marketing and mindset work to get there.

Lucy: Because the truth is, I'm a big believer in business as an inside job. And when you can step into your boldness and what you're able to create, Your ROI shows it. So when it comes to being a bold [00:41:00] founder, it really is about you as the founder and not always about the strategy you need for your company to soar.

Lucy: And don't get me wrong, there's going to be so many actionable takeaways. My goal is to give you all of the productivity, marketing, messaging strategy, things that you need to scale your company, but also softening it a little bit and saying, okay, what do you need as a founder to do those things that have never been done before?

Chelsea: Yes, I love that. And so to go with the actionable takeaway theme, what is one actionable way that someone could step into their bold founder energy today? 

Lucy: I would ask yourself, what are you scared to put out into the world? And I would just put it out into the world. I would speak it into existence. Is there something you want to be?

Lucy: Is there a company you want to start? Great. Put it in stories and say, Hey, would any of you guys want this? Just literally respond to this poll and then reach out to the people on the poll and say, Hey, can I ask you one market research question? And just feel it [00:42:00] out. But the thing is, we have so many ideas and things that are just inside of our bodies.

Lucy: And most of us have 500, 600 Instagram followers. Imagine if you could just say, Speak it in front of 500 people who already decided that they like you and they wanna follow your journey, your brain, your mind, whatever. Just put it out there. The worst thing that happens is Instagram gives you terrible reach and no one looks at it or no one responds to your poll.

Lucy: And, but at least you put it into the world. And I think that's the first part of being bold. It's speaking out what you're doing, but also speaking out what you are planning on doing. There's so much rhetoric about. Build in silence and then just come out of it and everything's amazing. I, I don't believe that.

Lucy: I believe build loudly and let people into your process because they're going to shape it. Assuming they like you, which we're going to assume your followers do, they're going to help you shape it in a beautiful way that you might have not even realized is part of your process. And they're going to make it so much better when you can just build loudly and speak what you want into [00:43:00] existence.

Chelsea: Yeah, I love that. Something else that's coming to me is if there's like an identity that you want to have, what if you just introduce yourself like that at the next party or meetup that you go to? Hi, I'm a fighter pilot. Why don't you just try it? Say it at the next thing you go to and see what happens.

Chelsea: Because I also think that's a big thing too. It's like introducing yourself as something in a definitive way. And owning that to strangers and just like seeing how they react and seeing how it goes for you. Like, cause it took me a long time to be able to say, I'm an entrepreneur. And now I say it in multiple languages.

Chelsea: I say it in Spanish and English. Soy emprendedora, like, but I think there's something really nice about just claiming it verbally to people. 

Lucy: Oh, for sure. I remember I was in a nail salon and for like a brief second, I thought I would be able to build and optimize like a new copywriting AI that's better than all of the ones currently out there.

Lucy: Getting my nails done. Someone asked me what I do. I'm like, Oh, I run a copywriting [00:44:00] company and we're going to be utilizing AI to Create a portal for people to be able to input their brand voice and then it's going to spit out their entire website. Like what? I had been talking about this idea for maybe 10 minutes with someone before getting my nails done and I had a whole thing going and granted I never saw that person again, but it's showing up and just speak it like what's the worst that can happen?

Lucy: I mean, it wasn't false. Like I was actually spending my afternoon trying to see if that would be a viable newsflash. It's not. But if you never. Say the crazy thing that's in your mind or what you're trying to build or what you're trying to create, then no one can join you in the crazy. And when you find your crazies, actually everything gets better.

Lucy: That's the real actionable advice. 

Chelsea: Find the craze. No, I just, okay. Another random story about just owning a random identity you're playing with is when I was in the hospital after my accident, I didn't want them to know that I used to be a doctor. And so I didn't want to say I coach physicians. I was like, I don't want to go there.

Chelsea: So I just started saying I'm a writer. And that I travel and then I [00:45:00] became this travel writer to all of them and I was like, Oh, they probably think I'm like a Nat Geo personality. And so I was just owning that and feeling into they're like, Oh, you're a travel writer. That must be so difficult. I was going for it.

Chelsea: And yes, that was not totally true. But I think it's not that you have to lie to people, but I think there's something just really interesting about it. One of the most common questions you get asked when you meet someone new is, what do you do? So like, just tell them what you want to do. 

Lucy: Yeah. Especially if it's like a low stakes airplane 

Chelsea: conversation.

Chelsea: Exactly. It's like, how many people can you just meet in the wild and just test something out? I feel like we don't do that enough with Stranger Earth. We don't just sort of use strangers as a testing ground. Strangers are your playground.

Lucy: And even if that makes you wildly uncomfortable, you can just say, "Oh, I want to be this person. Let's say you're an accountant, like no shame to an accountant, but let's say you're an accountant that doesn't want to be an accountant and you want to be a travel writer. You could just literally, it seems like, Oh, what do [00:46:00] you do?

Lucy: Be like, Oh, I'm starting my career as a travel writer. And then that conversation is going to bring so many fun, fresh ideas. Because when people talk about their passions, Oh my gosh, the chemistry of that conversation just got elevated tenfold. 

Chelsea: It's so much more interesting. That's why I love what I do because I help people literally uncover their passions.

Chelsea: And so I get to like, anytime I share what I do, I'm like, I help people discover their purpose. And then strangers will tell me what their hidden purpose is. So I'll be like, I was at a Costa restaurant in Costa Rica and the lady was a waitress there and she told me about how she wanted to open her own restaurant.

Chelsea: restaurant with handmade things and she had this whole idea and it's so fun to talk in the realm of ideas and possibilities instead of the current existence if it's like a kind of a existence. 

Lucy: Yeah. No, invite that spark into your conversation. And that is actually just having the courage to speak them is actually the first 

Chelsea: step.

Chelsea: Find your crazies. Yeah. Find your crazies. I love it. Strangers in the playground. Strangers in the [00:47:00] playground. A lot of takeaways. Here we are. We bought some little sound bites. We've got them in spades. Anything else that you want people to know or just walk away with before we're closing out this episode?

Lucy: I think just so much gratitude. I mean, this is going to be literally episode one. If you're listening, you're still with us. And I'm so thankful that you are choosing to listen to the bold founder, but also you're choosing yourself. It's not easy to tune into things that say, Hey, dismantle the narratives you've been told for the past 30 ish years.

Lucy: So the fact that you're even just listening to me. Letting yourself move into this realm where you decide, okay, I'm going to live in the gray area and I'm going to invite nuance into the conversation of starting a business or starting a startup or being a founder. That is part of the rebellion. And I'm so proud of you for being here.

Lucy: And I'm so excited to stay on this journey with you. 

Chelsea: I love it. Bold founders. taglines. Yeah, what's going to be our outro? [00:48:00] Yeah. Let's see you later. Stay bold. Don't get mold in your house.