S1E8: Discovering Your Ikigai with Ashna Patel: Integrating Joy Into Your Daily Routine

Overview:
In this episode of PausePoint: The Podcast, I sit down with growth coach Ashna Patel to explore her journey toward burnout prevention and mindfulness. Ashna shares insights on maintaining well-being, achieving work-life balance, and enhancing career development. She emphasizes the importance of reflecting on personal values, creating a system of beneficial habits, and embracing deep work. Additionally, Ashna discusses how treating employees as primary customers can cultivate an empathetic and supportive work environment.

Guest:
Over the last decade, Ashna Patel has prioritized health in her role as an individual contributor, emphasizing it through sessions and podcasts on topics like burnout prevention, mental health strategies, and work-life balance. She advocates for a unified life approach, recognizing the importance of effectively managing various life roles for better physical and mental health. Professionally, she has coached her team on these principles, leading by example and actively participating in related activities. Ashna is vocal on social media about the significance of emotional intelligence, managing burnout, establishing work-life balance, building personal systems, and the power of saying no to maintain wellness.

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Recent Work:

• Podcast: Breaking Free from Information Overload
• Manage & Prevent Burnout
• Building Habits to Become the Best Vision of Yourself

What You'll Discover This Week:

• Individualized Approach to Burnout: Learn how Ashna advocates for tailored self-care routines and mindfulness practices, including yoga and meditation, to sustain personal well-being.
• The Power of Ikigai: Explore the profound concept of Ikigai. Ashna shares how finding a balance between your passion, mission, vocation, and profession can significantly enhance life satisfaction and prevent burnout.
• Building and Maintaining a Personal System: Gain insight into the crucial practice of constructing and upholding a personal system that aligns with your goals and overall well-being.

PausePoint: The Podcast
Where Mindfulness Meets Mastery in Work-Life Balance

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Learn More:
Visit www.pausepoint.io to discover a wealth of resources and further information on enhancing your professional and personal life through mindfulness.

Transcript

 Welcome to PausePoint, the podcast, your ultimate destination for reclaiming your time, revitalizing your spirit, and saying no to burnout.  I'm Felisa Wiley, CEO and founder of PausePoint, and I'm here to ignite your journey towards a more balanced and mindful life.  Join us each week as we delve into practical tips, inspiring stories, and expert advice designed to integrate mindfulness into your daily life. 

We'll explore mental health tips, discover ways to strengthen work life balance, and Methods to reduce your stress.  Whether you're new to mindfulness or seeking to deepen your practice, we are here to spark action. It's time to reclaim our time, take more breaks, and infuse our lives with moments of peace and rejuvenation.

Join us starting July 15th for our debut season where we'll share practical tips, inspiring stories, and expert advice to help you thrive in today's fast-paced world.  Let's create a mindful world. One pause at a time. 

In this episode of PausePoint the Podcast, I sit down with growth coach Ashna Patel to explore her journey toward burnout prevention and mindfulness. Ashna shares insights on maintaining well being, achieving work life balance, and enhancing career development. She emphasizes the importance of reflecting on personal values, creating a system of beneficial habits, and embracing deep work.

Additionally, Ashna discusses how treating employees as customers can cultivate an empathetic and supportive work environment.  Ashna Welcome to PausePoint, the podcast. We are very happy to have you. Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself? Yeah, thank you so much 

for having me. I know we've talked about this before quite a bit, but this, everything that you're doing with PausePoint, I'm, it's very close to my heart.

So I'm so excited to be here and a little bit about me. I am a formal CS leader turned marketer. I'm also a growth coach. I help people with career and personal development, coaching and advancement.  And very much focused on well being, work life balance, burnout management. So this, it's in my, it's in my zone, I would say.

So, that's a little bit about me. I've had over 10 years of personal, like a professional experience, work experience. And then, it's just, it's  I'm just excited to be here. 

And we're so happy to have you. It's been a couple of months in the making, but what got you interested in burnout prevention? 

Yeah, that's a great question.

I would say I was always been so close to topics that were related to, I would say, personal development and interesting topics.  Overall, and over the course of the, my professional experiences, it's something I feel like everybody at this point is probably have seen some level of burnout. In their lives.

It's just the world that we live in and you know that we are and I've also gone through that a couple of times actually and I am more the person that likes to dig into the lie and I know we always talk about burnout is different for everyone which I believe in that but it's also I'm more like why does it happen although what's the what's below the surface that we're not seeing and the more I got into it and it just I became a lot more the person that got into it. 

Mindfulness practices, meditations, and yoga, and you name it, like, I have journaling, it's like, I've gone through all of that and it brought me more and more closer to understanding, reflecting, and understanding what's going on when people are burnt out and why does it really happen, and in the different ways that it happened.

So, it just got me so interested and then I started doing, I made books on it, and I started doing this podcast, things like this. And it's just. It's a topic close to my heart. I don't think I've mastered it. I don't think I can ever but it's just it's There's so much to it and it's so obvious that there's so many people are going through with it right now So it's a it's part of me also want to from a health standpoint Like I want to help people because I know i've gone through with this And I may go through with it again tomorrow too because it's like the way the world is changing so that's why i'm involved in this and it's just it's I just want to support people 

and I want a second what you said where You Just like life, it's a work in progress, and the only thing that you can do is work every day to make small improvements in your life, and all of the mindfulness techniques that you mentioned, whether it was meditation and yoga, journaling, these are all small, the small building blocks that the more you repeat it, the more you add on, the stronger your foundation gets.

Yeah, you're so 

right. It's also, what makes you happy? I know we've talked about this before, but I'm a big believer of like 80 guy and  purpose in life and then and it's just you have to know you have to figure out what are those small little things throughout the day that makes you happy because it and learn to enjoy those learn to respect those things and it's just Or just because something happened and you weren't happy for a second and you just move on.

No, savor those moments because that's what helps you get through the day and that's what actually helps you get away from burnout. Because you'll learn to put your energy into things that makes you happy, that makes you who you are, that aligns with your values. 

I know I'm probably getting ahead of myself right now. 

Burnout is, yes, 

especially when it happens, it's There's so much that you can play, that you as an individual can do, but also at the same time you have to focus on what you can't control. What is it that you have control over? Because once you start to realize that and start to work on those, you see the shift that starts to happen.

Whether you're burned out or you feel like you're just so much on your plate or you don't have enough time, whatever that may be. It's, we have to focus on the things that we have. 

And I actually want to go back because you didn't mention Mikey Guy. Yeah, what are some of the small things that make you happy?

Oh my god. 

I'm a such a  Artist probably not even the right word, but it's smallest little things  Craziest. The other day, I'll tell you this, the other day I was just watching random videos on my YouTube. I love watching, I love cooking and I love watching cooking videos and for whatever reasons, people chopping vegetables on video, it makes me so happy.

I don't know why. But it's, I was telling my husband, I was like, I just realized that this actually makes me really happy. So sometimes when I'm really tense, rather than an hour long meeting or something, I will randomly open up my video on YouTube and just watch a bunch of people just cooking or something, because it makes me happy.

So it's like small, just one example, but it's like taking a walk outside or listening to my favorite song.  Oftentimes, 90 percent of the time, I have a soothing music playing in my background, in my office. So something like that makes me happy. Cooking, like after a long day of work, I just want to get into my kitchen, put on a music, and I just prepare something.

I love that. So it's like small little things that it's just, it's me. But I think what it is is A little bit of a me time that I can get throughout the day makes me happy. So it's in the morning when I'm journaling or just being with myself or just taking a walk. Yes. I'd like to, when I talk to my family and friends and things like that also makes me happy.

It's like when I know that I've had my cup of me time in a day, I know that day, whether it's even if it's a stressful day, it's going to be like a product, it's going to feel like it's a productive day because that's what makes me happy. 

I love that now. And I. When you started talking about the cooking videos, my first, the first thing that my mind went to, have you watched Nara Smith's videos?

I probably have. 

I probably don't know the name, but I probably have because I feel like I've probably broken YouTube by watching 

YouTube videos and I've saved so many. So many. She's very popular on Instagram right now because she does like a soothing voiceover of her like cooking. So it's not necessarily like the chopping blocks that I'll actually send you.

Some videos later, you might like that. Yes, please. I would love that. And correct me if I'm wrong, for Ikigai, is there a block where it's find what you love and then try to get paid for that? Yes. So 

it's what you're good at, what the world needs, what you can get paid for, and I think I forgot the fourth one.

But it's like, there's four kind of like the themes and then they interconnect with each other. What you're good at and what you love is something and then. It's just what the world needs and we can pay for. And so that's what it is. And that's what the purpose of life is basically aligns with. With all of those when they're interconnected, so it's really about it's a great exercise I'd recommend everybody to do that exercise because it and i've done it multiple times and You can find different answers of those exercise when you do it maybe at the beginning of the year or at the end of the year because A lot can change in just one year and i'm just talking about one year so it's it's a great exercise, but it also grounds you and makes you want to reflect on On things that you do and what you're good at and what you really love because a lot of the times what we think is that What we can get paid for is what we love and what we're good at but it's not sometimes It's completely different and that's okay that you're getting paid at with something that you don't enjoy But that the question is are you giving yourself time to do what you love?

Because that's what's going to help fill that cup That happiness cup in your life, and that's gonna what's gonna help help you prevent burnout Because otherwise it's just it's just gonna feel like you're in a rut just doing something that you just don't enjoy 

And how do you guide? Your clients to that intersection. 

It's, I talk about building your own system a lot, and it's just like reflection is a big part of that. And when I work with, whether it's working with my clients or when I lead my teams, like with my team, team members or just in general, like if I'm talking to a friend or whatnot, it's just, I always put a lot of pressure on.

We're different individuals, and so we have to first acknowledge that, and second, it's, we have to, reflection plays such a big role, and it's not, I'm not just saying, everybody needs to, you know, sit down at a piece of paper every single day and just, Reflect. It's a lot about you taking a moment to just reflect and ask yourself a couple questions and that could just be like, have I, could I have done something differently during this time?

Or what did I learn from this? Or what's my, what was the one thing that I did today that actually made me happy? And because we don't take this time to reflect and realize those shifts that are happening. Throughout their days, throughout their lives. And so when I work with, when I just work with people in general and talk about this, I ask them to, let's create a system when you're reflecting.

First, because you have to understand what's working and what's not working. And that's what I, that's what I have them do. Let's go back and look at what's working, what's not working. And if it's not working, why is it not working? And then let's figure out, okay, out of those things that are not working, what are the things that you actually have control over?

And what are the things that you actually don't have control over? Because a lot of the time, what happens is that we can whine and complain about other things that we just don't have control over. And so what's the point? It's not going to change. We're not going to be able to change it. So let's focus on the things that we can change.

And that could result into introducing a couple of good habits, which is why I even refer atomic habits book wide a bit. Okay. Amazing book. If you haven't read it, I recommend everybody to read it because it talks a whole lot about having those good habits in your life. So it's, what are those habits?

Because those habits are going to be your, your motivation to wake up and do those things. And even when I work with people that are burned out, and, This is what we actually get to, okay, how can I introduce some of those habits that's going to make me happy and then I can take myself away from the things that are actually making me want to pull my hair apart, basically.

That's what it is, and I'm not saying like it works for everyone, it's different for everyone, but that's usually the process. Let's dig deeper, figure it out, and then we can get to the next point. 

And from what I'm hearing,  icky guy, building your own system. Being able to reflect and really ask yourself questions and get to know yourself.

A lot of these ideas and concepts, they're rooted in alignment.  Yes. So if you want to build healthy habits, but you don't really know who you are, you don't sit down with yourself and ask yourself the questions, how are you supposed to know what you care about? Know what you love to do, what makes you happy, and how are you supposed to know, like, what habits are it?

When to, like, instill new habits and how to instill those new habits. You're so right. You're so right. 

What are my values? What, what matters to me? And every, anything and everything that I'm doing, does it align with, does it align with those values? Because I will tell you, 90. 9 out of 10 of the times,  It's gonna come down to those misalignment with your values when you are you're like, I don't want to do this I'm not doing this and that's gonna create distractions You've lost the loose focus and that's gonna go down to the Section like the amount of work that you could be able to finish in one hour taking you four hours you feel like you have so much on your plate and then you're gonna feel like you're burnt out and But if you dig deeper, it's gonna come back to you It's taking you four hours, maybe because you don't want to do this, and you don't want to do this, maybe because it's not really aligned with who you are.

Now, it's hard for me to sit here and to say this, because it's like, it's easy to say then to get things done. Obviously, it's hard, but it's never about what you're doing, what you're not doing. It's about, okay, if this isn't working for you, then how can you create a system, or a place, or whatever you want to call it, so that you can get out of it?

So I think that's where it is. And that's why, like you said, it's so important for you to know are you really aligned with your own values or what matters to you in life. And just to be frank, it can change over time. 

It can 

change over time. You can, we are individual, we evolve every single day, every possibly second that we live and breathe and it's okay.

Change is inevitable. It's gonna happen. Those things can change. So it's just and that's why it's not something like I'm gonna value it by value once and I'm just gonna figure it out and that's gonna be no. That's why like I said, ikigai, all these practices like habits and things like that. We have to have a kind of like a system created so that we are re evaluating this over time because that's gonna help us do, okay, this used to be amazing and It's so important for me, because I grew, it's no longer important, or it's not as the same capacity importance it  used to be important for me.

Okay, what can I do to change it and focus on the things that are important for me right now? That's the power right there. 

No, that is actually. Okay. Really amazing that you're pointing that out because as humans we are supposed to be changing and we are supposed to be evolving And if you're the same person that you were four years ago, I would strongly urge you like ask yourself Why are you just and some people it's very easy to get into those routines where yeah You would just have certain things to do and I think it also changes generationally where you have like certain seasons So if you are a new parent, you're now in the season of taking care of a newborn baby and you're going to be taking care of that child for now 18 years.

So maybe you establish some routines and your new focus isn't really on you, it's on the child. But it's, you can always reevaluate who you are, where you are. And the more you get to know yourself, the more you can, also it makes it easier for you to say yes and no to certain things. Yeah, I agree. 

I agree.

And that's why I I know I mentioned earlier about me time, the, it's that me time gets you closer to who you are and what you are. And this me time can be different for every individual, but I think that's where you have to value it. You have to, and you have to be open to accepting the reality and just, okay, this is where things are and that's okay.

And this is what I need to get to, and this is how I'm going to do it for that. I need to make these sort of changes.  introduce new habits in life, introduce certain new things, whatever that may be.  That change, I know change is scary, but that change can actually help a lot of people. Go through with some of these things because change can be actually motivating. 

I think that's what people don't realize. We always put this change as, ah, scary, I don't want change. But it can be motivating if you actually put it in the right place, the right way. 

If you put in the right place, you set out with intention, and you also just put in the work, and you make small incremental steps.

It's all about those baby steps. And this entire, everything that we're talking about, You mentioned being an advocate for one life where you play different roles. Yeah. I feel like this also would go back to the different seasons of one's life, but also in each role you play, your needs and your values in that role might be slightly different.

Yeah, I 

Agree with you 100 percent because and that  the word balance comes in place because then it's yeah It's not about work and life balance It's about those roles that you're playing in different parts of your life And that's what you have to balance it out because if you're putting a hundred percent in something or hundred ten percent at one role that you're playing, but at the same time, you're not even 20 or 30 percent in some others, then there's going to be that misbalance.

And then even if you're achieving so much in one place, you're not going to feel that achievement because it's just, it's not balanced well. And that could be, and I know I'm talking about this, that could be just between maybe you're advancing your career, but you're maybe at certain points in life, you're not advancing as, you know, Advancement can be different.

The definition of advancement can be different for different people. But I think I want to, I don't want to get into too much of an example. That's what I'm trying to give an idea of. It's like, you, the balance, like only you as an individual know what the true balance is for you. And you have to first, understand that, acknowledge that, and then figure out, okay, what can I be doing now?

So, one of the things that I always say is also, it's never about if you can do something, or if you cannot do something. It's always about, should you be doing that right now?  If that makes sense, it's never, I am capable of doing so many things, that doesn't mean that I can't, I should be doing all those things at the same time or right now.

It's also about, should I be doing that right now with everything that's going on in my life and do I need, is this the right time for me to do this? And so if, and only you can know the answer to that, 

so 

know that answer, acknowledge that answer, respect that answer, and go with it. I think that's what I always advise people, is that it's not about if you can or cannot do it, it's about should you be doing that right now.

Yeah, it's like, life is nothing but a balancing act. One, we only have 24 hours in the day, and we still need to sleep, eat, work, unfortunately. Yeah. And we still have to try to find time where, whether it's like socializing, hanging out with spending time with family or, and even.  Taking that time and like throwing it over the course of a month.

I've actually done this exercise where I calculated how I was spending every single hour of my day. It was a Tim Ferriss recommendation. And I realized I was like, Oh, I actually have not really spent that much time with my family, but I always thought that one of my core values was like quality time with family.

So how can I say that if it's not actually, Reflecting in my day to day, my week to week or my month to month. So I knew that I had to make some adjustments to my own schedule in order to add more time for family. 

Yeah, that is, that's amazing. First of all, I love that you did that. And I think that's where it's like, when we talk about burnout, a lot of the times what happens with the prioritization comes in place, are you prioritizing your time management when it comes into place?

And one of the questions that I always ask is when you think about prioritization, Are you only thinking about how do I prioritize my work schedule, or are you actually thinking about prioritizing my schedule, as in, me as a whole? And a lot of the time, when we are talking about burnout and other things, we're disregarding that  whole me portion of it, and we're just like, I need to prioritize. 

What I'm doing would work or this or that and we're taking bits and pieces of life I need to prioritize this and it's and I'm like no you gotta prioritize it all because That's when you can give your that full like you said, it's like you If you had not done that kind of an exercise, you wouldn't even know that you spent, you weren't spending enough time that you wanted to spend with people.

Like it's, you meant well, you wanted to do it, you just didn't even know that you were not, because that wasn't even part of your kind of, I need to dig into this and figure this out or whatnot. So I think that's what I, that's what I, and then again, it's not something you need to do it every day, but it is something that you need it.

You need to be, like, conscious about, like, am I spending the time that I need to be doing the things that I need that makes me happy? Because if you're happy, you're gonna amplify that happiness around you, and that's gonna make others happy. And it's just, I don't know, I don't know what the scientific word for it, but it's just like, you're, you're, I'm not into science, but it's, it's just, it's, there is a word for it.

You need to, it just, it's like mirrors. You're mirroring those things. And so what it really comes down to, understand yourself, really understand yourself, reflect on things, and then have an open communication with yourself too. It's just, and that is what you did. It's in your case too. When you have that communication, then you can dig deeper and then you can figure out, okay.

What 

are the places that I need to 

shift? And what's crazy too is that life goes by fast and we're already in August. I know. Can you believe that? The year is almost over. Imagine if I had gone three more months without doing that exercise. That would have been three months of me doing the same thing that I was already doing, thinking that I was prioritizing my family, but the data is actually saying.

Something completely else and that had been three months that I lost and when I am on my deathbed started to get morbid I don't want to look back on my life and be like I should have done that or Wow, I didn't spend any time with like my mom. I want to be able to be like, yeah, yeah It's so funny that you mentioned that 

it's because when I was journaling this morning, I'm not lying one of the things that I wrote is I think What's the, what am I leaving behind?

What's, what legacy will I be, what legacy am I keeping behind, or leaving behind, basically. So, I started worrying about some of those similar things. Okay, one time, again, sorry for being morbid here, but I want to add that. It's, what am I leaving behind? It's not just, oh, I achieved this and that, it's just, no.

But it's, for me, it's, What I achieved is for someone else to celebrate, but it's like when I say what I'm leaving behind is I need to be able to say, oh, I've lived, I've lived a life when I have actually given time to my family, or I did this, or I did that. It's just different for everyone. And again, different seasons of life for people.

You could be going through a whole lot of things right now, but it's just different. Be okay. Embrace that. Accept that. Accept the reality. And then you figure out, okay, now if that is something that I want to achieve, what are the two things, or one thing that I can do today that's going to get me 1 percent closer to whatever else that I'm trying to achieve, because then you can be on your deathbed and be like, even if you haven't achieved whatever that you wanted to achieve, you can still be like, okay, it's okay.

I still tried. I did my best, and I tried, and I put everything that I needed to, and I did everything that I wanted to. So I think that's the, it's just, it's a mindset shift, I feel like, that's needed to happen. 

And, so we talked about prioritization, we've talked about Ikigai, we've talked about, we've talked about, like, the one life and the different roles, and then you also mentioned, like, the building your own system.

I want to shift over into the professional setting because you did mention being an advocate for treating employees as like the first customer. What does that concept mean to you? 

Yeah, so I always, your employees are your first customer. I believe in that because  they're the people, they're the face of your, of an organization.

They're putting. Not just, they're not just putting words out there for your company, also, they are the people that's going to represent your organization.  If your customer was going through something, would you, how would you treat them? That's my, always a question and if, if it's going to be starting a lot of the time, people in like, I've been in customer success for long enough that I can say you start with being empathetic.

So, same thing, the people that are actually, Presenting, representing an organization that are doing the hard work day in, day out, learning and growing and, and putting the name of your company out there. That should also be like, you treat them as your customers. They are your first customers because if you make them successful.

They're going to make your customer successful, and that's going to help the organization. And I think that's the kind of like the mentality, that's the mindset that I have. And I've been fortunate enough to work for organizations that where this mindset is put in front. Even in my current organization, for whatever value right now, the first value is people first.

And we try to live by that in and out. But it's that's the concept it's key understand make sure understand that your employees are your first customers and So you have your responsibility not just to make your customer successful You have to make your employees successful too. And for that you have to understand You know, different personas, different people, different, are your leaders equipped with what they need to be, to understand what your employees need, because they're the ones that's going to help them, whether to grow in their career, whether to help them.

Guide them through in the day to day, whatever that may be, and that goes hand in hand. I'm not saying like everybody, every employee is to come in, come to work with their emotional baggage or whatnot, but if you have that, are you creating environment where you can openly say that, Hey, I'm going through this right now, and I need this much of space, and can work this out with your manager?

So then, or, and if not, then maybe that's where you're going. We'll need to do the work because that's when then employees go back and they feel like They're not well supported. 

Yeah, no It makes perfect sense. Like just treat your employees as people and not like robots. We're not there We're not like hamsters on like little spinning wheel.

We are people, we have different personalities. Like you mentioned, we have lives and we, our lives like can impact our work. But if you look at your employees like a human first, you understand that, Hey, Matt, just because they have this, something going on with them, they're still a person and it's okay to let them be a human 

at the end of the day.

Exactly. Exactly. And I think it's, and also it works. Both ways too. And employees also need to understand that if you're vocal and if you're being authentic and real about what is going on, but then at the same time you're showing your willingness to do the work that needed to be done to, to make this happen.

Your role to be successful. So then your organization then can be successful. If that goes in, like it reflects, organizations will see, leaders will see, executives will see that.  It's like a, it works both ways. You can't just be like asking something but not giving back in return at that help. So it's like it's communication is a key.

I'd say nothing. That's why I would end it on this topic. Be creative as an organization, as a leader, create an environment so that your voice can have that open communication with you. And as an individual, be real, be authentic, bring your super typic self to the table so that you can have that open communication, which is only going to make things easier for both parties.

Yeah, and on the complete opposite end, If you're an organization and you lack that authenticity, that empathy, I feel like that directly contributes to employee burnout. Yes, it 

does. It does, because values, alignment, being, if I acknowledge, am I getting acknowledged for the work that I'm doing? Those are some of the things that it's like, It adds up.

It may not look like that. It's the only thing but it adds up because then eventually you're going to feel like why am I working so hard if it doesn't really matter to anyone, you know what I mean? That thought can come across and that can be those one of those early signs of burnout because that's going to get you down to the road of I don't enjoy what I'm doing because I'm not getting that acknowledgement or like recognition that I need.

Yeah. And it just recognition could just be like just getting a job well done from your manager But you're doing a good job. So it's not i'm not saying go on a stage and celebrate whatever it's it can be different For for people so I think it's like some of those things can add up, but you're so right It's it plays a big role in it 

And it also I also feel there are generational divides with what we expect from Work, do you experience this in some of the clients that you work with?

There is 

I feel And especially if you think about, even in the last decade, the way that the work culture, work environment has evolved, especially after COVID,  during COVID, and now with this introduction.  Crazy advancement of AI coming into place, and I know I mentioned this because there is that divide, it is changing, but at the same time what we talked about change, organization has to change, people has to change, and I think that's where I bring back is remember that you're working with people on the other end.

And people, different people have different personas and they're going through different phases in life. And so if we all can just be a little bit more empathetic towards one another, I think that can really help solve the problems. And that's just maybe me, optimistically speaking because I'm an emotional tool to, to some capacity.

But I'm just saying that is there, it's, we need to just understand one another and then, and just. be vocal about, okay, these are the things that I can do or cannot do. And I think it's, I know it's easier said than done, but because that divide, I feel like generational divide is going to be there because it's also who's going to tell someone that there is that.

And even if someone does make a point of,  that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to get changed or it's like, It's there. The shift is there. Also with the, sorry I'm bringing this up, but like with the increase of like social media and like other factors, external factors that can play a role in it.

The world has changed so much. World cultures has changed so much. And so that changes. In 10 years I've seen a complete shift in world culture. And I can't even imagine what the next 10 years is going to be like. Honestly. I'm scared. Oh, no, I don't think it's, I don't think it's that way, but it's, I am, I don't know, I feel like I'm, yeah, it's, it can sound scary, but it's, I'm saying it more from, it can be positive if you make it positive for you, so it's, Learn to just accept the reality and go with the flow.

Focus on the things that you can control. That's the, what I'm trying to get to. There you go. Yeah. 

Yeah. No, it makes sense. If I stay in the here and the now, the only thing I can focus on is, like, the work that I can do. Maybe I can do more studying so that I can actually be able to compete against whatever AI models decide to take my job.

There you go. There you go. And they're not going to take your jobs. No, actually they'll make it easier. They're going to make it easier. I love using like TattooTee and like Cloud AI. They actually really do help with everything. 

They do. They do. And they make it easier. And it's also  We're in, I like to always think about the positive side of things, and it's just, if you just sit down for a second and think about it, even in my years of decades that I've lived, and I feel like such a sound like it's such an old person, but I'm just saying,  I've seen so much.

I have seen a generation when I didn't even have a phone in my hand, and I now have a, a system that actually connects me and lets me do everything and everything, anything that I want to do, and it's just,  hey. Nobody taught me any of those. I learned along the way and look at me. So it's like we have it in us to be able to learn and adopt and go with the flow and run with the society, but we just have to understand that we have to run with where the the world is going and not necessarily where the other person is going because we shouldn't be comparing with someone else.

We should always just be acknowledging like how far we've come along and then how far we can't continue to go. 

Absolutely. And it's funny that you said that you remember a time where people didn't have cell phones. Do you remember when cell phone bills used to show you like every single text message that you used to send and receive?

Yep. I remember that every 

time you send a message, there comes another message. This is how much you charged like 25 cents. Yeah. And now you just. Exactly. And look at this now. It's just like. I see the phone bill. We're not saying that we're burned out because of that, even though it does play a bit. The cell phone plays, and when we talk about burnout, it does, cell phone plays a huge role in it.

It's, or the amount of, okay, I take it back. It's not cell phone. It's how you use cell phone plays huge role in, or cell phone or. Digital media, whatever you want to call it, plays a role in it, but we don't because it's teaching us something new every day, so we don't want to get rid of it. You have to reflect and be open to accept.

Yeah, and going back to just like the way that you use cell phones, there are some believes that technology is evil and there's others that believe that technology is good. I just believe that technology is, and it is what you make it. So if you want to live a mindful life while still Being connected to the digital worlds, there is a way to do that and it's called balance.

It's called learning to disconnect. It's called rewiring our brains to not get so attached, which is hard because these are, these devices are designed to keep us locked in. Exactly. 

And it also, this is where I'm going to bring it back to. You have to know yourself and then one of the things for me too is just I had to understand What are the things that actually?

Distracts me a lot of the time and when I understood and something was one of the things if I just have it on my Table, I could be typing in the email and it'd be like nope. Let me pick in and see A notification came in or something else that I wanted to do on myself because it was just right there.

Yeah. So I started to do what I started to do and this is a little change that when I start my work specifically, I have myself on my hand right now, but some of the days if I'm getting into a meeting or something, I will just put it into a drawer. Like, it's still with me, but it's I have my notification turned off and I've put it in a drawer so that I'm not, I don't see it in front of me for me.

So it's like you have to understand your, those stress points or those distraction points and then you have to figure out your system that is going to work for you and can help you come out of it or it can help you stay focused. Because focus is the key. lack of focus can really it's also one of the one of the kind of like the early sign they can bring you out.

Yeah and it reminds me of a conversation that we had a few months ago when you brought up Carl Newport's. Yeah, Newport. Newport's, his concept of deep work. Yes. Can you talk more about that? He wrote 

a book, Deep Work, and then I think we sneaked him out with another book, Slow Productivity. I've read deep work like A through Z and it is amazing book.

But the concept that he really talks, the main, the thing that he talks about is, he's given a lot of examples of a lot of these like authors and other like successful people and some of the achievements that they've had. And he talks about these people used to lock themselves in a room and just sit down and do whatever they wanted to do.

the focus work. So he's, and he even, he gives us his own example too. He says, I probably do four or five hours of work in a day. But he's, I am very focused. And that is usually equivalent to someone that is probably doing nine or 10 hours of work in a day. But if you're, so it's, that's the difference. If you can't do focused work, That can, you have to understand what distracts you, eliminate those distractions, do the focus work, because that's where you, mind my language, will get shit done, basically.

That's where it's going to help you. Get those things done, and then you're going to feel productive, and you're going to feel like I've achieved something, and you're going to, and that's going to motivate you automatically to do next work, because if you're productive, and you feel like you've accomplished something, and you're motivated, you want to do, it's not about I'm doing more work, I have so much on my plate, it's more about let me prioritize, I'm going to do the focus work here, and I'm going to achieve this that I wanted to achieve. 

This concept is pretty simple. It's just Eliminate those distractions, do the focus work, and that's going to help you. And that focus work can be different for different people, but if I have back to back meetings again in, in the morning, then I, in the afternoon, I want to maybe schedule some focus time for myself when I can actually unwind and focus on what, what are the things that I need to get done?

Because otherwise, if you have so many meetings throughout the whole day, You're gonna feel like you're burnt out by the end of the day and the next day you're not gonna be so productive because you're still burnt out for day four. So it's kind of, it's a combination and then introducing other things throughout the day.

It's also part of his deep work. It's like, when you're doing the deep work, meditation is a big part of it. Going on walks or taking those breaks and things like that.  I recommend reading that book, or he has a YouTube channel too, so check out his work on YouTube channel too, called Newport. But it's, I think it's just the concept of focused work and lack of, if you can eliminate distractions from your work, that can really help you.

But for that, you have to first understand what are your distractions. And so I think that's where you want to start is to understand really what distractions are and how often do you get distracted because I can tell you so many of us are probably typing an email and a slack or a team's message or something comes up and we're like oh wait a little bit real quick and according to research, not my research, I read it online, it says Once your focus is distracted, it takes about 23 minutes for you to get back into the focus zone.

So imagine you're typing an email, and if you're distracted four times while you're typing that email. You can't even finish that email in two or three hours. I'm just, again, just one example I'm using here based on what I read on as a research. It's, that's the thing. Versus if you can just take five minutes of undistracted time and just finish that email, how accomplished are you going to feel by the end of the day?

That's absolutely insane to think about it. And, but I do remember another research That basically said that we actually don't know how to multitask.  There's no such thing. There's no such thing. I don't believe 

in it. I don't believe I would go to debate for days If someone asked me to there is no such thing as multitask It's no because it's not multitasking.

It's multi Multifocusing, basically. You're dividing your focus into five different things and that's, it's actually funny this, I think it's called import or something that talks about it. Imagine that you completing one task 200 percent in one hour versus doing five tasks but all of them at 20%. What's better?

The 200%. Exactly. Okay.  You feel like, oh, I've done this five things in this, but it's like, how much were you really present for those five things that you were doing versus, I've just accomplished this one thing, but I was fully present there, I was fully focused, and I've achieved this. So, I know this is a podcast, and people are probably going to hate me if I say this, but I, it's, I don't, like, like, multitasking, yeah, you can be like, talking and doing something, but You're in one example diving and you have a podcast on or you have a music on I will tell you that the minute you start singing the song or you actually listen to the podcast and you're like it's registering to your head you will forget if you sit down and try to remember that you won't remember what road you were on or what sign you saw or you where you were because your mind can only focus on one thing at a time and that's the easiest example I can give.

Something to think about. That is something to think about. Wait, that's crazy. Yeah, and I've  gone back and forth 

on this exercise on my own and I don't remember it because you're you can only focus on one thing and it's there's so many examples like there's two conversations going on you can only remember one now that there's like a whole thing about your unconscious mind conscious mind and all those things but at the What I'm trying to get to is, you can only focus on one thing, so why not focus on one thing fully?

And you can accomplish that, and then get to the next thing. 

I also feel like the attempt to multitask could also lead you to burning yourself a little bit, because you Oh yeah! You're being pulled in so many different directions, you're only giving each thing 5%, so you're not hitting that fulfillment, or that ability to accomplish a single thing, because you're not accomplishing any of those things.

Exactly. Exactly. 

Because at the end of the day, it's only going to make you feel like I haven't accomplished anything. You could have had nine hours or eight hours full of work where you've done so much work. But at the end of the day, you're like, I don't feel productive. I don't feel like I'm really accomplishing anything.

And a lot of the time it's because your attention was getting divided into so many things. Context switching happens over and over. And you're just like, okay, I don't even, I don't even, at the end of the day, I don't even know what I'm doing right now. It's just, and again, it's easier for me to sit here and say this and then for someone to figure this out.

But it's just. I've seen it firsthand. I've gone through with it. I've researched it. I've learned it. I've read about it I've done all of those things and I can tell you it's you have to realize that I don't think I have fully figured out  How I can stop. I still get disturbed. I'm not gonna lie. It's there.

It's everybody I don't have a perfect recipe figured out but it's at least I know that I can Acknowledge it when it happens because then I can stop myself and be like, okay I need to rewind myself and do something, I need to change something because this is, I see those early signs and it's happening right now.

So in terms of like work life balance, what trends do you see happening and like how should organizations prepare for them? 

Oh, I wish I can tell you for all organizations, obviously not, but it's like the whole, this is what I feel like I talk about.  There's one life, there's different roles that people play with it and I think  the balance needs to come.

You need to acknowledge and understand that people are going to be at different levels. Even in two person living similar lives and doing the same work can have two different It's just, there, it's, there are going to be two different energies and values and whatever that may be. So, it's, I could tell you smaller organizations is going to be different versus the bigger organizations.

But I think the biggest thing that organizations can learn and see is just to not continue to invest in this human first. Mentality, because that is what's going to help to get through, especially with the change that is coming at like AI and everything, digital world, it's just, and communication is going to be the key.

It's just, as companies evolve, as individuals evolve, organizations, the culture is going to evolve, what used to matter yesterday is not going to matter tomorrow.  How can you communicate that openly so that For that vocal, that communication, that dialogue is there because that is the only way that it's going to help.

And for that, I think one of the things that my company does too, which I could give as an example, they'll take surveys. When we have annual kickoff, there's a survey that we've done. So, As an employee participate on those things because that's where you can put your voice out there And stay now just because you stayed and complained and did something doesn't mean that it's going to get fixed tomorrow But at least you have contributed towards that.

So I think  That's where I would say the best way is to communicate, be open, be vocal, and learn your own structures because  just because the company is going in one direction, you can't force yourself to go in that direction and vice versa. You just have to understand yourself and lastly, focus on what you can control.

Yeah. And remember 

you're just human. Exactly. We're all are. So this is the last question because believe it or not, we did get through a lot of the questions here. What are two things you want listeners to take from our chat today? 

Oh, I feel like we had such a good conversation and the two things I would say is, I think one of the biggest thing is I advocate about building your system.

So I'm going to mention, take that away, reflect, figure out what's working for you, what's not working for you. And then. Build your, build those habits, build your system. And I think the last thing that you said, it's just, we're all just human at the end of the day. So just understand that we are human.

Other people are human too and we're working with them. So just give yourself grace, give yourself space and do the things like every day. I think that's one of the biggest advice is just figure out a balance where at least there's one thing in a day that you're doing that makes you happy. actually happy because if you can't figure that out Believe me a lot of the problems a lot of the things a lot of that stuff can like shift I won't say that'll be eliminated completely because everybody's life different, but it  Let's just do something that makes you happy 

No, and all of your tips and strategies are very true, but they're also very actionable.

Yeah. So that simple, simple step of find what makes you happy and just do it. That's so simple. It's just sitting with yourself and remembering that last time you randomly smiled for nothing. What were you actually smiling about?  

Exactly. And do that. It's that little bit of a reflection is going to take you a long way.

Yeah. Do that.  Spend a little bit of time this weekend, if you can, if you're listening, and then, and just figure that out and see if you can implement that in your life. 

Well, Ashna, thank you so much for joining us today. I really enjoyed our conversation. 

Thank you so much for having 

me. 

Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Pause Point, the podcast. Our debut season is packed with enlightening conversations, featuring thought leaders, burnout prevention specialists, authors and mindfulness coaches. Together we delve into topics like effective stress management, burnout, goal setting, and transformative mindfulness techniques. 

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