Peach Podcast
Two guys and an occasional guest breaking open topics on: Purpose, Energy, Attitude, Commitment and Health through shared experiences.
Peach Podcast
S2EP11: Cycling Lifer: Ming Tan's Journey from Bike Shop to Brand Builder
What if custom bikes didn't come with an endless list of upcharges and confusing options? That's exactly the question Ming Tan asked when he founded Haley Cycles after spending nearly four decades in virtually every corner of the cycling industry.
Ming's journey begins with a childhood revelation during a family trip to Europe. At just 11 years old, he discovered how bicycles could transform transportation and exploration, sparking a lifelong passion that would shape his career. From his first job at a local bike shop through progressive roles at industry giants like Look USA, and Richey Design just to mention a couple. Ming absorbed crucial lessons about manufacturing, marketing, and business operations that would eventually fuel his entrepreneurial leap.
The most fascinating aspect of Ming's story is how his "no-charge custom" philosophy emerged as a direct response to industry practices he found frustrating. After years watching customers face endless upcharges for custom features – "You want a taller head tube? That's $150. Internal routing? Another $150" – Ming built a business model that eliminated this nickel-and-diming, making the custom bike experience more transparent and accessible.
Whether you're a cycling enthusiast curious about the craft behind custom bikes, an entrepreneur seeking inspiration for disrupting established industries, or simply someone who appreciates a good story about turning passion into profession, Ming's experiences offer a compelling blueprint for following your dreams while keeping your wheels firmly on the ground. Join us for this candid conversation about titanium frames, the gravel bike revolution, and finding your unique path in a crowded marketplace.
For more info on a custom build reach out to Ming @ https://www.haleycycles.com/ and tell him Peach Podcast sent you!
Hey, hey, hey, welcome to the Peach Podcast. Just a couple of dudes and an occasional guest breaking open topics from everyday life on purpose, energy, attitude, commitment and health. So, if you're ready, listen in as we live to learn from our losses, gain from our gratitude and laugh as we level up. To learn from our losses, gain from our gratitude and laugh as we level up. Always remember, if you ever feel stuck, all you got to do is just start. Come on, let's go. Hey, welcome back to Pete's Podcast with Doug and Daryl. Man, we've got a great exciting—actually, we're going to take a little—man, we're going to pivot a little bit. Man, we got a new guest coming on today. As we promised, we got some great guests lined up, but we had a very interesting guest and Daryl knows a lot about him. Daryl's worked closely with him and so I'm going to let Daryl go ahead and introduce him.
Speaker 1:But before we get into our guest, daryl, we've been training, we've been suffering on purpose, intentionally, getting ready for this half marathon coming up on Sunday. On Sunday and Darryl right, that's what they call them Double barrel, darryl. And I'm going to tell you why because Sunday we're running a half marathon, but if you're insane, you get to do a 10 K or a five K the day before. And so, insane, double barrel. Darryl said you know what I'm doing, you know the. The non-runner of us says I'm doing both. And so Daryl has signed up to do the 10 K on Saturday and then he's going to run a half marathon on Sunday. And I'm just going to go down and say, daryl, I'm going down on Saturday just to support you and a few other people who are doing the five can 10 K that day, and maybe we'll do a few little spot interviews to get them on the podcast and then clip them in later on down the line.
Speaker 1:But, daryl, tell me what's going on in your mind, what's going on in your head. You signed up for the double. It's called the double header for the Shamrock and it's actually Shamrock Inn in Sacramento. What's going on in your mind, in your head? And are you ready, man? Are you?
Speaker 2:ready I am. I'm excited Last year. I'll introduce Ming in a second. But Ming, overall I am a lot of things. I am not a runner. He is, he's lying to you.
Speaker 2:But, doug, I broke through last year and got past that 10-mile mark and did my first half marathon. So it was one of those make it or break it, so I did it. Doug's been running for a few years now. Did CIM make it or break it? So I did it. Doug's been running for a few years now. Did CIM, so I got through and I actually survived and I was like mental kind of those mental breakthrough, get through 10 miles, do my first half marathon. So I've been running a little bit more. My wife and some of our friends and I signed up originally because I thought it was really cool. You can sign up for both and you get a double medal, you get a double shirt. But Josephine, my wife, is running now too. So I'm actually on Saturday running the 10K with her and basically, however she wants to run it, my job is to support her and then we're going to go try and beat our times on Sunday. But it should be a fun, fun item. And then, ming, it's back to cycling, which is what I'm excited about, ming. It's back to cycling, which is I'm more excited about. So first of all, I couldn't be more happy I introduced Ming Tan.
Speaker 2:Ming I got to know about three, four years ago as I was starting my cycling career. I was working at a Trek bike and got bike fitted from Bruce at the athletic camps and he talked to me a little bit about where I'm at, as people don't know me too well but I'm 6'7" so I'm a little tall and it was a little bit hard to find bikes. And he talked to me a little bit about where I'm at, as people don't know me too well but I'm 6'7", so I'm a little tall and it was a little bit hard to find bikes. And he said you might think about a custom bike. And I said OK, what does that mean? Most time you hear the word custom, you just think expensive. And I was like, is this like a Trek experience where you do all those things? He said no, you can actually kind of explain the process. And he mentioned Ming at Haley Cycles and I got to know Ming had a great experience with him and just a great story Ming.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna let him talk a little bit about himself, but literally has been in the cycling industry for the past 35 to 40 years, all the way back from working in a bike shop in high school. He'll talk about how he found his love for this. Going to college, love Ming big California boy right Us CSUS I was. You went to, I believe, hayward. I went to Sac State. I think you also did some time in Davis and then pretty much you worked your way through all aspects of the cycling industry, which I'll let you talk about, and then started his own company in 2014. He's got a great story. So first of all, just welcome Ming to Peach Podcast.
Speaker 1:Yes, welcome welcome.
Speaker 3:Appreciate you guys having me yeah.
Speaker 2:So tell us a little bit about yourself. Talk a little bit about you know, growing up, your background. You've got a really cool story. I love uh, I love hayley cycle and some of the posts you put up there.
Speaker 1:So talk a little bit about the early years yeah, and we want to know ming ming the dude, like, just bring it to us real and raw, like who's ming? Talk to us, man, come on man, you know it's.
Speaker 3:It's been a long, it's been a long road. You know it's. Uh, daryl, you talked about this uh long and winding road post on the website. You know, and I'm what you call a lifer in the cycling industry. You know I got exposed to cycling when my sister and I went to London, the UK, back in 1983. I think I was 11 years old and when we were visiting family there. They don't have a car and so everything that every their mode of transportation was either public transportation or their bikes, and so that's how I was exposed to the cycling lifestyle. The longest ride that we did when I was there, I think, was 26 miles.
Speaker 1:And that was just for transportation. You were saying right, Like you just use it to get around.
Speaker 3:Like you weren't trying to get around and we were riding from I think it was from their house to Greenwich, wow, you know, so it was. It was there and back, and uh, that's that's where I started, you know. And, uh, I got home from that summer trip and my cousin was a cyclist and, and, and he helped to kind of encourage me to get into it further. And, yeah, that's where it started. I was 11 years old and when I was in high school, started a cycling club with a handful of buddies at in high school and, and, uh, started working at a bike shop. Um, and and, from there it's, it just grew. From there, you know, it was the bike shop Worked at REI for a while REI, okay, as I was getting through college, and then I graduated from, I started with Davis and then, you know, it didn't really have a program that I was interested in.
Speaker 3:So I transferred to Cal State, hayward, and I wasn't, you know, I was never really a studious kid, just wanted to get through and finish and get to the next phase of life, which was kind of that career step.
Speaker 3:Graduated from college and started looking for my next step and found a job at Bell Sports in San Jose and at the time I was living in the East Bay where I grew up. So I got this job down in San Jose at Bell Sports and the inside sales department which is kind of their um, their, their phone department, yeah. And so that's where it started on the wholesale side of the business for me, and ended up spending um, that was 96, probably spent a couple years down in san jose with bell sports and then ended up moving over to an importer called bell tech sports in the late 90s and I was a brand manager there for for look and for this german the small little german and for this German the small little German cycling computer company and Veltex. You know Veltex specialty at the time was sales and marketing, so it was a Dutch company based on Monterey.
Speaker 3:Their whole philosophy was to provide the sales and marketing mechanism for small European brands to come to the US. And so I worked with Look, which is a French frame and pedal company, right and Ciclo Sport, which was a small little German computer company. Then worked with CD for a little while, cd, cycling Shoes, for a little while, when I was there, almost five years with those guys, and then the commute was killing me.
Speaker 1:But this was all in the Bay Area. This was all in the Bay Area. Oh yeah, that's a nightmare man for sure.
Speaker 3:And Veltec was in Monterey, oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:So that was a long commute.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was developing relationships with different companies and different people are in the industry and a good relationship with the guy who was running richie design and so he kind of recruited me away from veltech and you know there's the director of marketing for richie, for for a for a period of time and then, as things happened, I had a great relationship with the managing director of Look and so he kind of you know we had a good working relationship and he called me and he said you know it's time for us to pull away from Veltec and you know we want to build a true US subsidiary of Look in the US.
Speaker 3:That was the next kind of big step in my career because that was where we kind of built this business from the ground up for Look. We built it in San Jose, which is where I was living, so it was great. I had a nice short commute. Yeah, built it in San Jose, which is where I was living, so it was great. I had a nice short commute and ended up spending another four or five years you know, with Look specifically.
Speaker 3:So you know, from 2000 to 2010 was a really key part of my career because I learned a ton during that period of time about the business.
Speaker 1:Right, and let me ask you something real quick. I mean, don't mean to cut you off, but in it, in that timeframe that you just said, 2000, 2010,. Was that the thought of you having your own bike company ever crossed your mind, or any? It was no way, yeah. So you were just kind of in the process, not even knowing what the outcome was.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, if you asked me back then about starting my own business, I'd be like are you crazy? That's the last thing that I would ever consider. Wow, you know. But I learned a lot, um uh, from I give a lot of credit to the owner of Veltek. He was a Dutch guy and learned a lot about the business and and how to run a business and what the key components of the business model is, what the key components of a business model would be, and so, between 2000 and 2010, learned a ton.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Made a lot of mistakes along the way, did some good things but also did some bad things. You know, in terms of running a business and kind of took my licks Right. And then, you know, when I was kind of reaching my limit with the french and and that brand got recruited back to ritchie and so ended up running ritchie uh from the the general manager uh level. I was the, I was the vice president and general manager for Look for when we built that subsidiary and then got recruited back to Richie at the general manager level, had a great relationship with the CFO and CEO of Richie Design. So they called and had some good conversations and had a good run with those guys and then got recruited to work with these two guys that I had met in the early 2000s when I was at Veltek.
Speaker 3:These two guys came out of tech. They wanted to get into the cycling industry and when you look back on it now you're like what are you thinking about getting into the cycling industry from tech? You've got this great career in technology. Why would you want to go to the cycling industry? But you know these two guys. They were super passionate about cycling Right and got a ton of respect for what they did, you know, starting from scratch, wanting to build this kind of the same model that Feltech was for sales and marketing. And so they wanted to bring in these other small brands from from Italy, specifically because these two guys were Italian, right Italian American guys, and uh got a ton of respect for what they did and kind of taking that leap themselves and starting their own business, uh, importing and brand building, and so their business kind of evolved into the apparel business.
Speaker 1:It started with socks and uh, socks are big man. I don't know what it is about socks, but socks, socks, socks are a big market.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, you always have to have clean socks, that's it man, and cool looking socks too.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it'd be the right height.
Speaker 3:Exactly, that's it, man. And cool looking socks too where I learned that entrepreneurship was possible and it was something that those guys can do it. I think I can do it too, wow, and so I give a lot of credit to those guys for teaching me that, uh, being a business owner was possible.
Speaker 2:Hey, let me ask you one thing. Um, you talked about your career and like I love it. Literally, you've done, it seems like, every job in the cycling industry, right From design to apparel, everything else. What about the? Did you love cycling? Did you along this way, when you're doing all these different jobs and commuting and different people and Italy entrepreneurship what about? Did you like it, do you? Did you have time to ride. You have time, yeah.
Speaker 3:When I was 11 and I got exposed to cycling. That's where my love for cycling started to develop, you know and I've been riding a bike for it seems like forever I was fortunate to have these relationships on the business side of things that took me to different parts of the world. You know, when I was at Bell Sports, I got exposed to Asia. You know, I was born and raised here to Asia.
Speaker 3:I was born and raised here. I'm, for all intents and purposes, an American kid with an Asian name and an Asian family and heritage, but I grew up here and so I was fortunate, when I was working for Bell, to be able to get exposed to the Asian manufacturing side of things. So I learned a lot about product management and product development there, wow, and my passion was always with cycling and with the bicycle itself, you know. And when I was a product manager, I was working more on the parts and accessory side of things the PNA side of things. And then, when I was working more on the parts and accessory side of things the pna side of things and then when I was working for the dutch at veltec in monterey, that's where I was able to get back into the kind of the hard goods side of things. And, and look was a super fun brand to work with because you were talking about European brands, you know, a French brand that was embedded in European racing, yeah, and when I started working with look, they were working with five pro teams at the time Wow, you know. And so, like that, that was fantastic, that was so much fun, you know, and that that was fantastic. That was so much fun, you know, and, and, and to be able to learn about european manufacturing, european design, carbon fiber technology, how they applied that and how they used their european pro race team affiliations to help them develop what they wanted to do on the commercial side of things was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I mean, daryl, to your point. I mean cycling was something that I started doing at a very young age and loved it. You know, I loved everything about cycling. You know the, the healthy lifestyle, the, the sounds of cycling. I remember in high school I was with a couple of buddies of mine in 1983 when Greg LeMond won one of his tours to France and it was just so much fun to be involved in the cycling side of things. All right, that's cool, but I tell you, you know, one of the things that gets talked about in the cycling industry is the deeper and the deeper you get in the cycling industry and the progression in the cycling industry, the higher up you get, the less you ride.
Speaker 1:So you answered that question, yeah, yeah did you ride much while you were? Doing all this shit right?
Speaker 3:yeah, you know so when I was working at bell tech, it was great because you know, we had a really, I mean, and bell too there was always a a culture of of cycling and there were lunch rides and you'd go out and you and they'd like go ride, you know, get outside, and and so that was great.
Speaker 3:But as I grew in the, in the industry um, yeah, it's true, kind of true and the less you rode, the less time you had to ride. And, um, especially coming off of covid, I found that there's a certain amount of burnout that comes after you've been in cycling for so long, you've been riding a bike for so long. Honestly, I haven't ridden my bike consistently probably for the last three years, you know it. It's hard to get motivated to go and ride, maybe because of where I'm living now here in the city.
Speaker 3:Um, yeah and uh, it's hard to get motivated to go and ride, maybe because of where I'm living now here in the city. Um, yeah and uh, it's cold. You sound like an old man, we got to get you up here on some uh.
Speaker 2:Bruce rides, bruce is out, uh, kicking it a couple of times a week with this, uh, with this team. Hey Ming, I gotta I gotta tell you a couple of funny stories. So kind of got into Doug's been writing for a long time.
Speaker 1:I actually started down in the San Francisco area man, that's my neighborhood from Portrero Hill all over the Golden Gate Bridge.
Speaker 2:By the way he took us down there. Those roads are no bueno right now, hey Sacramento roads are much nicer.
Speaker 2:You know I had to take my PSIs. I was like getting banged all around the East Bay riding up all those places. He's like this is great. I'm like ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So Doug always teased me because when we first got out riding, all of a sudden I look like I was going to go like play basketball at the high school gym. I had some tank top and some long shorts and stuff and and then then you see the progression, right, and I see some of these reels like your first year writing and all this stuff, and you end up you you start dressing different, you start looking different, your bikes get nicer. I mean, there's a whole there's that culture is real and if you would have told me that I am dressing the way I am now five years ago I would have thought you were nuts. But it's a big part of the biking industry. Just the kit and everything else.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, you've got to look the part. I mean, you're riding a ton, you're out there, but part of that culture, like you said, is looking the part, getting the right kit that not only is comfortable but it looks right. Right, like Doug said. You know, when it comes to socks, it's got to be the right height. No one's wearing short socks these days. You've got to have at least. You know, I think at Coppo, the Italian American apparel company that I work for, you know, is always okay. Okay, are you running nine centimeters or you're running 14 centimeters? Maybe we should put to push it to 18 centimeters, you know. So it was fun.
Speaker 2:It was fun because, you know, the whole fashion side of cycling became such an integral part of the culture and building the cycling culture, developing the cycling culture, it was a lot of fun yeah, but I mentioned that we were uh, we were running um and uh, eric and I were uh last week running uh down by the american river trail and uh, and we were on the dirt path and a couple of bikes went by and it's like, and that that sound of a really nice bike going by you and Eric said. Eric said, doesn't that sound good? I was like, yes, two more weeks and we're on it. But literally, like you said, I was thinking that sound. I was like, ooh, that's a nice one, you know.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, when you're out there on the road and the tarmac is smooth and your bike is running, great, there's a certain whir right, yeah, this whirring noise that comes with your bike when you're pedaling out there and you get a couple guys and you've got a tailwind, yeah.
Speaker 1:Now we're in fantasy land man.
Speaker 3:That's fantasy land, that's what you feel and that starts to fuel that passion for wanting to ride more and more. Yeah, you know, and so it's a lot of fun, but honestly, I haven't felt that in a long time. Oh, we got to get you.
Speaker 1:I need to figure out how to get that back. You know, I'm going to tell you how to get it back. Ming, we went riding last weekend for my cousin dave's uh, 60th birthday. He's part of our peach team, peach cycle team. But we, since then, I don't think any of us have ridden our bikes probably, for I know I haven't ridden for a couple months at least, thank you. But I've been.
Speaker 1:I've been running a lot and when I got on my bike saturday I felt like I was in hell. I was. I didn't need motivation, the inspiration, everything, all my senses were back. I'm like, oh my gosh, I almost felt there was a little part. I felt like I was in heaven. I was. I didn't need motivation, the inspiration, everything, all my senses were back. I'm like, oh my gosh, I almost felt there was a little part of me that felt a little guilty, like I was cheating, getting my physical exercise in because it was so effortless. I wasn't killing myself running into all the pounding. But the joy came back, the love of just being outdoors, the wind in my face, um, and then that, that whirring sound. There was about what was there?
Speaker 1:10 of us there, oh, eight to ten of us yeah and, uh, you know, just and laughing and joking, and and then the hills came and just you know, keeping it in that big ring, getting the blood pumping to the legs, and just man, everything just felt amazing, man, it was just that. So I'm that that that's what you're gonna do, man Ming, you're going to start running and then you're going to be begging to go back to your bike.
Speaker 2:man there, you go, and then uh, and then uh, and then Ming, as you know, like in these group rides, of course, they played some tricks on me, right, I was in the back of the thing and uh, my uh, David guy, he's like go, take him, go, you know. And I and I went out and I just say, smoked him, just smoked, went straight by him and guess what, they turned about 50 yards after.
Speaker 1:I passed them.
Speaker 2:They all laughed. It was funny. So, ming, you've done every, every, every job. And then a big move right, you learned some entrepreneurial. You kind of found that fire in you and talk to me 2014,. You, you went out on your own, you started your new company.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was the switch? What was the switch that flipped in your brain and cause that's a big leap, you know, and I know you, you credit those guys, the entrepreneurs, who said hey, if you see it, you can dream it, you can do a kind of a thing and attitude. And so, what switch? What flipped in your in your mind? To say I'm doing it, cause that's a bold move.
Speaker 3:You know, as you know, I love those, those two guys that I worked with at Kapo, and you, like I said, I learned a lot, but I got burnt out, you know, and I was. I was at a crossroads mentally, um, in in 2013, going into 2014, you know, and I was talking to my wife and I was like man, I'm so burnt as much as I I love what I'm doing and I love these guys and I've learned a ton. I'm burnt, burnt out, do I? Do I leave the industry, but, hell, I've been in this industry for so long. I don't know if I could work in another industry, right, you know?
Speaker 3:So I was talking to my wife about it and I was like man, I don't, I don't know what to do. And she said, you know, maybe just do something on your own, I guess I could. So, anyway, I mean, I thought about it and thought about long and hard over the first number of months of 2014. And then the guys that own the business Capo they're like you know, we probably have to move because our lease is running out, the landlord wants to make some changes and I was commuting from San Jose to Emeryville Another killer commute. Yeah, that is.
Speaker 3:It was up 880.
Speaker 1:880 is terrible, 880 sucks.
Speaker 3:It sucks, and throughout my life I had all these long commutes and so I was like, ah, so tired when they were looking around for a new place. They found a new place. It was in richmond what's that?
Speaker 1:like another, uh, seven to eight miles of just hell.
Speaker 3:right, exactly, I'm like, oh my God, I did it for a couple months. I was like I don't know if I could do it much longer. I said, gary, rob, I can't do it anymore. It's nothing about you guys, but I just can't. I can't take the commute anymore. So I resigned. And these guys are super passionate guys, you know. And and Rob got it Rob lives in Marin and he's like I totally understand Gary's like, forget it, I'm wiping you from my social media, wiping you from you know he was a little. You know he's a very passionate guy and I respect him for that.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I had to, I had to draw the line and I did that in July, august of 2014. It was tough because, you know, I was a career guy and I built my career and I and I developed career guy and I built my career and I and I developed my career and I progressed throughout my life, from when I started working in a bike shop to the wholesale side of things, to product management, product development, brand management, director of marketing, to vice president, vice president, general manager, running a business, developing a business. So I was like, ah, it was tough because at that point, if I did this, I'd be going from a nice salary to what am I going to do? Okay, so I made the decision. My wife was awesome about being supportive of making this decision, and so I timed it to where I could go and resign from my post there to Interbike. Interbike was still in Vegas at the time, so I went to Vegas and I started to. I decided I was going to be a rep.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:Because that's the one thing that I hadn't really done in my career. So I went out there and I just started talking to people picking up brands for being a rep in Northern California. Throughout some of my connections that I developed over the years, I was also able to pick up some consulting gigs. So you know, that's how my business started in 2014. Oh and in 2013, 2012, you know, know, a couple buddies of mine 2013, a couple buddies of mine, as I was at this crossroads, um decided that we'll start aluminum frame brand. That was great.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of fun as we were developing this brand, this aluminum brand, but we kind of stumbled along the way because there were four of us. I was kind of the the operational role. We had a sales guy that kind of filled the sales role and then two of the other people were kind of the marketing and social media roles, but we were kind of coming at it from different points of view and we had a great supplier in Oregon that was able to build frames for us and we had this really nice aluminum frame. But the problem was it was too expensive. On the marketing and social media side of things. As that developed well, it ended up kind of pointing towards the hipster market. On the one hand, it was pointing towards this hipster market. On the the one hand, it was developed, it was pointing towards this hipster market on the marketing and social media side of things, but it was kind of also supposed to be kind of this no-nonsense race frame, but it was also too expensive.
Speaker 3:So we were kind of in a conundrum because what we were building and who we were, who we were pointing it towards, that part of the market couldn't afford it, you know. And so we were kind of in a tough spot. And so, as I started my own business in 2014, you know, we were still working on vinyl, but we kind of got to the point where we couldn't maintain it because it was too expensive. There were four of us, too many cooks in the kitchen, right? So we sold it. We sold the brand to a gentleman in Colorado, another tech guy. He decided he wanted to get into the cycling industry. I'm like, what are you doing? But okay, whatever.
Speaker 1:Darrell, that's going to be you, man.
Speaker 2:Bruce is also from tech. He was in tech too.
Speaker 3:Oh man. So anyway, we're like, okay, well, we'll sell it to you. So we sold him the brand and he was able to run with it. He made a good amount of money in tech already. So he was like I'm tired of tech, I want to do something different, which I totally respect, and so we sold it off.
Speaker 3:And as I was developing my business in 2014, I was repping some brands, I was doing some sales consulting that also eventually transitioned into sales management consulting, and I hooked up with this brand called Alchemy and Alchemy is a handmade, custom carbon brand primarily and the owner started it in Texas and then he eventually moved it into colorado. So I had a lot of fun with these guys because I learned more about carbon manufacturing from a different point of view. It was very different from what look was doing. Right, what look was doing was one thing, and they poo-pooed everything that these guys in colorado were doing. So I looked at these guys in colorado. I'm like, what are you doing? But they had their own technique, you know, and and they built kind of a cult following and they also did tie and they also did the stainless steel out of Colorado. So I ended up doing this sales management consulting gig with those guys, learned more, went with the owner to this.
Speaker 3:I got this cold inquiry from a distributor in the UK and so I said, hey, let's go. Well, I struck up this conversation with the owner of the distributor in the UK and then ended up securing this huge PO through this distributor in the UK. And so we were trying to build this relationship with this distributor in the UK and we got this huge PO from these guys and so got it and then transitioned out of it because the owner of the brand was like I can't work with you anymore because our business is evolving. So I said, ok, whatever, I can't work with you anymore because our business is evolving. So I said, okay, whatever.
Speaker 3:And then in 2016, I was at the Sea Otter, ran into some guys I knew at Bond cycling shoes. Okay, yeah, when I was at Veltec, one of the pillars of their business was Seedy Seedy cycling shoes. So I was like, yeah, cycling cycling footwear, maybe I can do something like that. So develop this relationship with bond, and I've been working with bond ever since. I wouldn't say that it's a pillar of my business at this point, but, but it's, uh, but it's also taught me a lot as I've grown with the brand. So what my business is today is primarily distribution in North America of bond cycling footwear on the B2B side, but also a fairly limited B2C side of things.
Speaker 3:And then on the other side of things, we're still developing Haley Right and Haley as we sold vinyl.
Speaker 3:You know, I learned from the vinyl project because, as I was saying, with vinyl, you know we were a US made aluminum brand but it was too expensive for the market that we were pointed at, and so we made some mistakes along the way. And, as I told you, you know, I was always very much a hard goods guy and the bicycle itself was something that I was always super passionate about since I was a kid, and I remember when I was a kid I had these posters of bicycles and look was one of them. And carbon fiber was always this really fun material that kind of evolved as I was evolving in the industry, right, but titanium was something that, um, also kind of evolved throughout my career path. So I was thinking um, as I had this relationship with alchemy, I started with this and I said, hey, ryan, can you build me a frame? Would you do OEM for me? And he's like yeah, sure. So my first initial samples of Haley's were built by alchemy.
Speaker 1:Ah Right, and they were titanium, titanium. Wow, and they were titanium.
Speaker 3:Titanium, wow, and the welder that they had on staff was a guy that super talented, came from Serrata, but he moved from the East Coast to Colorado, and so that's where I started to develop this idea of Haley. But what I wanted to do was create a brand. This was back in 2017 when I started working on Haley. But what I wanted to do was create a brand. This was back in 2017 when I started working on Haley. What I wanted to do was create a brand that would be simple, easy and kind of dispel some of the myths of custom, because one of the things that I learned with custom as I'm also a car guy I love cars. And one of the things that I learned with custom as I'm also a car guy, I love cars.
Speaker 3:Okay, and one of the things about custom is that, oh, if you want a taller head tube, that's $150. Oh, you want internal routing, that's $150. So, as I'm shopping for a bike and I'm shopping for a frame, I'm realizing that, okay, the titanium frame may cost me $3,000, but if I want a taller head tube or longer chainstays or internal routing, these things would just add up Right, right. So there was a certain amount of nickel and diamond that came through the process, and it's the same thing with automotive.
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm shopping for a car and I want this, and as I'm flipping through a magazine I can say, oh, it's 30,000 bucks. But when you finally find it on a dealership floor, it made me 35,000 bucks because there are all these little things that get added into the cost of the car. Right, oh, you want a roof rack exactly you want wheels oh yeah, so you know, I wanted to try to make it a simple process, right? And so that's where this whole concept of no charge custom came into play no charge custom.
Speaker 1:So that's what hayley is charge custom.
Speaker 3:That's what Haley really began with no charge custom, because when it came to the manufacturing process and the pure process of cutting and mitering tubes, the cost that I found ended up being a little bit. A certain amount of it was negligible. So I was like, okay, well, why don't we try to make this really easy process for our customers to where, if they want custom, okay, it's all inclusive, nice. And so that's kind of the basis of what Haley kind of developed into.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, um, you've been doing Haley cycle for a while now. Um, uh, I'll walk you through a little bit of the no custom, my experience, because it'll be interesting story. So I got bike fitted. Doug said you should go get bike fitted after we'd done a big century. I went and got bike fitted. Um, now I don't know how many of your customers work with you, know with their local bike shop or something else, and then they come to you. But literally after we kind of ran the geometry, I had kind of do I go left and go try to go find and tweak a manufacturing thing and a whole bunch of different things, or I could go this way. By the way, at the bike fitting they gave me that nice little printout of all the dimensions of what my bike fitting is Right, and then he said, well, let me contact. And he contacted Haley cycle and Ming.
Speaker 2:Um, I think we had a couple of conversations and, uh, all I remember I don't remember. First of all, when you and Bruce start talking, you guys are like scientists, back and forth, like this and that and this, and I was just just like, do I need to know any of this? No, you don't need to know any of this, right, you know. But basically I went to you and basically you took his bike fitting, yeah, and built a bike for me yeah, I mean that kind of was it. And I know there was a base price right for for the, the general. And then I just happened to be very fortunate of having someone like Bruce to help me kind of pick some of the components, and you guys went back and forth, but really it was a bike fitting, build a bike pick, pick the equipment, right, um, that it was kind of a three-step process, right, oh, except for me. And guess what? The wheels I picked were on back order for a year. But that's a different story.
Speaker 1:That was during COVID. Man, everything was back over during COVID.
Speaker 2:I remember when Ming said to me he's like here's your bike, I'll get you your wheels in a year. But it really, I got to admit the experience was not much more than that and I've told Doug you know what the most. But by the way, ming, you know what the most stressful part of the whole bike experience was Paint, paint, oh man, picking the colors and the design and all sorts of stuff like that. But it literally on your website you kind of look at, get fitted and pick something in this. So it's a three or four step process. Um, it was pretty cool and, um, I felt like when I got to the end of it I didn't have like I didn't go to my local bike shop and write a check and walk home with a bike. I felt like I had a baby, you know. I mean, I take pictures of that everywhere, man, as Doug knows.
Speaker 2:But that was kind of the experience. It was a pretty interesting process and, like I said, I don't think we had any nickel and diamond, I remember, other than just picking the components. That was probably in the paint. But, like I said, the paint I don't remember, ming, but I don't remember if there was like a, a paint, a paint B and a paint C. There was hey, what do you want? You know what I mean. So it was a pretty no nonsense buying experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, and Bruce kind of has a unique uh program because I think you know you can go to Bruce and he's got a kind of a new bike program so you can go in, you can get your fit assessed by him and then what he'll do is he'll, he'll see how your fit data looks and he'll try to help you find an off the shelf bike first. You know, that's kind of the easier approach. So he's got a cool program in a sense that he say, okay, daryl, here here's your geometry. You could probably make this, amanda work. If you want an Amanda, this is what it would look like. You'd have to run two centimeter spacers, you'd have to run a 120 stem. This is what your saddle would look like, this is roughly what your bike would look like and this is what roughly what your bike would look like. And it would work. And and you know I would probably say eight customers out of 10, he can make it work with an off the shelf bike, which was great, right, but for those two customers that don't necessarily fit a stock bike, you know, daryl, you're kind of an exception because you're so tall, right, and it's hard to find a tall bike that would work for what you want to do. And so that's when he brings the Haley side of things into play, because with what we can do with custom geometry, then we can kind of apply that to build a bike underneath you.
Speaker 3:That could work, that would fit, and so he's got a cool program from that standpoint. You know, and you're right, you know you get fitted, and if it's something that you're interested in, he'll send me the data and then I can build this, this geometry that we can make it into this file. That ends up creating a PDF of a bike that's pretty close to what your bike would look like. And then what I do is I send it back to you guys and then you can talk about it with Bruce and kind of get Bruce's assessment in terms of how well it could work for you. And then you can decide okay, do you want a complete bike or do you just want a frame set? And if you want a complete bike, then you can send me a list of the components you want.
Speaker 3:And that's where we start looking at the numbers, right, but the core aspect of the frame is set. So at least you know, okay, this is what the frame's going to cost. And then everything else in regards to what I want in components would be the variable set of costs, whether I want Dura-Ace or Ultegra Di2 or Mechanical Zips or Envys, whatever. Those are all those variable costs that can come into play.
Speaker 3:But the core of the frame the frame, the fork, the custom geometry and the paint and finish you know what that's going to cost, and so that was kind of the core aspect of what we were trying to develop with Haley Know what it's going to cost. And so when you're shopping, you at least know okay, I can budget this, this is what that's going to cost, and if I fill in everything else underneath it, this is what my total investment's going to be. And you're right, darrell, you're not the only one that said the most stressful part of the process was the paint finish, because people get this whole aspect. Okay, cool, I can choose, but there's so many different colors in the spectrum what I can do it's like a tattoo man, it's all, it's forever.
Speaker 1:Man, oh man, that's tough I would, uh, I would I would text, I would text.
Speaker 2:Team Peach. You would send the different designs. I'd text them out to people. I said what do we like? And you sent me four. I had votes on all four.
Speaker 3:I'm like oh no, come on. Yeah, but yours was cool because you wanted this 49er theme because of how big of a 49er fan that you are. Yeah, yeah, and so that was cool and that was right. But what I always encourage people to do is to make it unique to you, because you're spending 10 000 bucks, 12 000 bucks or whatever. So if you're going to spend that, make it something that belongs to you, that doesn't look like the guys down the street.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because if you got an Amanda you could spend 10, $12,000 on Amanda, but chances are it's going to look like the guys down the street, yeah, you know. So part of that whole custom aspect that I like is the uniqueness of it which I think is a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's a great way to look at it. I like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and so you got, you got any questions, I, I got, I got one thing, uh, I got one, I got one question.
Speaker 1:One question uh, in the in the time you've you really dug in and got serious about cycling and and it was, and you were working in it and you evolved from maybe bike shop mechanic at REI or something like that, up to VP and manager. If you could pinpoint one thing that's evolved in the cycling, in bicycle, the core of the bike, over the last 10, 12, 15 years, whatever it's been, what would you put your finger on if you could, if you could like that has made a big difference in cycling? What's one thing the frame geometry for, uh, carbon, titanium, the, the we talked about that before we got on here. We talked about tire sizes and all that stuff like, uh, what's the? You know, I mean, I know that's a hard question because there's so many components to a bike.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Well, you know, in terms of materials, there's always been three Steel carbon, and well, four Steel carbon, tie and aluminum, and each represents price point, fatigue, life durability and weight. But I think the biggest thing, that there are some markers that you could say made some real big differences in the industry. And I think the first thing is STI, you know, with brake lever shifting, Okay.
Speaker 3:Remember when that first came out? Yeah, I do. You look at those brake levers, like what's up with those brake levers? Hold on, they're also shifters, you know, and that was when it was still cable actuated and mechanical, but I think that was one of the real markers. Well, that was one, clipless pedals were another and then, as time has progressed, it's been electronics and disc brakes.
Speaker 1:Oh, let me add to the question then. It just is there something down the line that us normal people don't know about that's coming that we should get excited about? I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's always something's always changing man.
Speaker 1:I remember when they had the little, the little, the spacers and the, or the, what do you call them? The. Well, who came out with those? Uh, specialized with dessert?
Speaker 2:spacers or something like. Yeah, yeah, yeah and uh I mean, it's always little little things e-bikes now yeah that's right.
Speaker 3:But I don't know for us people in the industry we get jaded right, yeah, and we look at these, look at bottom brackets, little little things like bottom brackets. For the longest time in the 80s and 90s, early 2000s, you either got an English bottom bracket or an Italian bottom bracket and it was either 68 millimeters wide or 70 millimeters wide and it was either this thread pitch or that thread pitch and that's what it was for the longest time. And then threads went away and then you got these press fit bottom brackets that everybody liked, but it was an easier bottom bracket to manufacture in Asia.
Speaker 3:But then T47 came along and T47 was a little bit larger in diameter but threaded, and that's kind of been a key point in handmade frames in my opinion. Right, let's go back to a threaded bottom bracket. It may seem pretty minor, but it makes a difference.
Speaker 3:But I think on the industry side of things we get a little jaded because we're like okay, t47's here, and then someone might come out and say, well, what about T47.5? They're like oh my God, let's just keep it a standard standards. Whether they be bottom brackets or head tubes, they tend to sometimes evolve from one side to another, you know, and all that we're asking on the handmade side of things is let's just keep things consistent. Yes, yes.
Speaker 3:You know, and what we've seen is there's a certain amount of consistency that's stabilized, but then SRAM comes along and says okay, to hell with derailleur mounting. Let's change it up and create UDH, this universal derailleur hanger. But it's not really universal because it only works with SRAM.
Speaker 2:Right. I mean I got to tell you I didn't quite. I'm in the high-tech business. Like in the high-tech business, things are interchangeable. When Bruce started talking to me he said you can't do that because it's SRAM you can't do. I'm like what is? I felt like there was like two sides of of the evil empire right. One was inches and one was centimeters right, and they don't talk to each other. I mean that's kind of odd.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. But I think what is happening over time, and fortunately with UDH UDH is something that's. Hopefully it sticks around for a while, because they figured out with udh dropouts. We can get you an adapter that'll allow you to run shimono and whatever derailleur you want, which is great, and so a lot of the frames that we're building.
Speaker 3:Now, like daryl, your new frame is going to be udh okay but it's going to have the adapter and what that'll allow you to do is basically allow you to run whatever derailleur you want. If you want to run a UDH derailleur dedicated, no problem. If you want to stick with your Dura-Ace, no problem. If Shimano ever goes to UDH, no problem. So hopefully that's something that's going to stabilize here over time.
Speaker 2:Good, good, I got just one more. Hey, I love my wife, I have a great relationship with my wife, but I've never to this day told her how much I spend on my bike, so we got to keep that. We're going to edit that part out Everyone every once in a while she'll be like she says you know, she'll say to me something like you know, I really want that. I go. That's kind of expensive. She goes, how much was your bike? I said, sure, honey, we'll, we'll get that for you let's talk about
Speaker 2:gravel for one second. I want to talk about gravel. Just maybe one minute on gravel, man, I'll tell you what. Just I feel like a lot of the people that we ride with you know everything else big, big, maybe it's a trend, maybe it's long-term, everything else. But talk about gravel, cause I know that you've got some great gravel bikes.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, I, I mean gravel's fun and the thing I like about gravel is, it gets you off the streets.
Speaker 3:Yes, you know, and the customer was talking this morning, he just got hit by a car again, again, you know. And so with cars and bikes there's so much more that's happening. That's I don't know whether it's driverless cars or autonomous cars, but man, it's getting to be. It gets to the point where it feels like it's more dangerous on roads these days. So, but gravel's fun, it's different. And I go back to the whole Tom Ritchie things about the whole Tom Ritchie thing about eventually things are all going to come back around again.
Speaker 3:Because gravel came about, because guys wanted to explore, people wanted to explore. Because guys wanted to explore, people wanted to explore, people wanted to take their road bikes and hit that trail that they saw off the pavement and it was fun and that was one of those things, that kind of drove higher width. So yeah, I want to take that little trail that I saw, but my 23s aren't going to cut it. Maybe I'll go 25, then I'll go 28, then I'll go 30, then I'll go 32, and then I can ride those little trails that I can find off the side of the road. But I tell you, gravel's great because you can do some exploring and there are a ton of roads out there Like some good friends of mine in Fairfax they're retired now, or at least the husband semi-retired and they get in their sprinter, they go everywhere.
Speaker 3:And they've just been down in in Arizona, tucson and this area called Patagonia, and they sent some photos back that are just miles and miles of rolling gravel roads. And it's beautiful, man, you know, and you don't see anybody out there, yeah. And the other thing is, when you're out on gravel there aren't any stop signs or stop lights. So to a certain point you almost get a better workout because you don't have to stop. Whether that's good or bad, um, it's different. But I tell you, when you see some of these gravel bikes and some of the big brands and how they're evolving, now there's flat bar gravel and eventually you're going to be back to hardtails, yeah. So it's kind of fun. I mean, it's different, it's fun. Gravel's an interesting concept.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's going away because it's providing another type of racing that's out there too yep, yeah, and I think a lot of people use gravel bikes on the road now, as you know and they're I mean I see them out there when we do death ride there's a lot of people using gravel bikes because of the gearing and the hill climbing. It's like it's just easier.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, for sure I'm like man I might get a game gravel bike to come do this damn ride because it's it's big, yeah and when we started building gravel bikes, my whole thing was, if I want a gravel bike, I want a gravel bike that's going to feel like my road bike, yeah, handle like my road bike, but have clearance for bigger tires. Yes, so that was always a bit of my philosophy in terms of gravel. But we have to be flexible in regards to what people want. Yeah, you know, some people want longer wheelbase, bigger tire clearance. So you know, depending on people want, we'll adapt and we'll build for people you have your, you have your um.
Speaker 2:Uh, your line is itorato. That's your gravel bike.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:We'll definitely put your link on the website. I was looking at those. Hopefully I'm going to tell my wife we skipped the podcast this week. She won't listen to it.
Speaker 1:She might see me online.
Speaker 2:looking at the Storato, I might be putting in an order for Christmas for you.
Speaker 1:Hey Ming, if people want to look you up, look up Haley Bikes, how I mean, if people want to look, if people want to look you up, look up Haley bikes, like, how do they look you up? What's your? Do you have a website? Do you have a Haley cyclescom? What is it? My website is Haley cyclescom. Haley cyclescom. And what about you? Any social media handles anything like that.
Speaker 3:The best place to find our bikes is on Instagram. Instagram.
Speaker 1:At Haley cycles. Okay, All right so uh, instagram feed.
Speaker 3:That's where you can really kind of see the different types of variations. Right, you can also see our new frames that are not only a tie but tie carbon. Yeah, so we've, we've blended titanium and carbon, hi carbon. Yeah, oh, it's not like we're the first to do it. I mean, there's been some builders that have been doing it a long time, but this is just our iteration, but you may be the first to perfect it.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I'm just kidding, I'm just saying you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:We weren't the first to do it, we're just the first to perfect it. Dan, there we go, hey Ming, on our show we always wrap up with what's called a quote card and I believe, daryl, is it my week to give you a quote? It's your week, and when we have a guest, we ask the guest to chime in too. So I just kind of we share, daryl and I give each other surprise quotes at the end of the podcast and just talk about what it means to you off the cuff top of your head.
Speaker 1:So your life was kind of like I got this quote in here and listening to your life, it was kind of like an adventure listening to it and it's very conducive to the quote that I'm about to ask or throw out at you guys. So the quote I have is the biggest adventure you can take is to live the life of your dreams. All right, the biggest adventure you can take is to live the life of your dreams. So, ming, I'm just going to say you know, you're 11 years old, you discovered cycling, and so I don't know if it's always felt like a dream. Sometimes it might have felt like a nightmare, but when you hear that quote, what comes to mind? And are you living in that? Do you think you're living in that now or do you think you might need to pivot?
Speaker 3:That's great, you're right. I mean, as an 11-year-old, yeah, you get these dreams of cycling, and I remember when I was talking to my mom when I was in school, I said you know what I want? To work in the bike industry, that's what I want. And so, if I look back upon my childhood, yeah, it's been a dream, for sure. But maybe it is time for me to pivot a little bit, because I've been in it for so long. Right, forever Seems like forever, yeah.
Speaker 1:And dreams evolve, dreams change. You know it's okay.
Speaker 3:Dreams evolve, for sure, for sure, but you know, I like this whole aspect that you guys brought about these quotes, yeah Cool, because you know I have a chronic disease that I deal with, okay, chronic active Epstein-Barr, okay, and so you know I I'm fine and I'm living, I'm moving forward, but but it's something that brings you back down to earth, right, and it gives you a certain perspective. That, I think is important, because I think everybody needs to be grounded to a certain point.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And even though you have all these dreams, it's important to grasp them, for sure, and to embrace them, but I think you also need to be grounded in reality. Yeah, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1:It makes a lot of sense, man. I think a lot of people don't don't kick off on their dreams because they're too too much up in the clouds.
Speaker 3:yeah, you know I think your, your, your point is well taken, in a sense that you should still recognize your dreams, embrace your dreams and if it's there, go for it yeah, all right, thank right.
Speaker 1:Thank you, ming and Daryl. Come on, man, you don't get off the hook. The biggest adventure you can take is to live the life of your dreams. Are you living it? Yeah, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:But I also think that you know, as we've kind of grown, you know the end of the day thing. You don't get back as time, right. So I like the I wish somebody would have said in your twenties right, your life is your adventure, right, because you know, now I feel like that, like you have a, you have X amount of time, right. If you think your life is an adventure and I talk about this a lot with some of my friends I say yes, a lot more now. Like you hear something out there and you're like I'll do that someday. Well, why not today? Like, well, what's so good about there?
Speaker 2:And to Ming's point, sometimes the adventures in your life are sometimes the things you got to be more grounded. Sometimes the adventures is guess what? Man, I'm going to go spend as much time as I can with my daughter. Or they don't have to be these grandiose. You know things right, they can be, but they can also be the things that are going to matter to you. So I think I love that. The life is your adventure. If, if, if you ingrain that I'm going to talk to Ava about that tonight, right, you know, what you know tomorrow is your adventure If your kid won't go up every day thinking every day is an adventure. They might live it a little different. So I like and I also like Ming that you got to be grounded and it doesn't always have to be some grandiose thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good stuff, gentlemen. Well, we're going to wrap on up. We've been on, we've taken much of your time. Ming, thank you so much for getting on with us. And yeah, absolutely, brother, Absolutely, we're excited to share your voice with our audience and so they can hear your story, maybe be inspired to take a leap of faith or a step themselves. And also one of the things I recognize in your story is it was you know, the outcome wasn't there, it wasn't clear while you were deep in the process. And one of the things that I preach and we preach is, man, just trust the process, step in, don't get tied to an outcome. Just show up, do the work and see what happens. Man, it's a journey, it's an adventure. Right, absolutely, things will always change.
Speaker 1:I mean 2014,.
Speaker 3:What it was then to what it is now, man, it's very different. But you know, roll with it.
Speaker 1:Yep, good stuff, gentlemen. Well, we're going gonna sign off, like we always do, and I'm gonna say god bless and peace out, peach out.