Unhinged + Unfiltered: Who gave them a mic?
Real women - slightly unhinged - get real about the daily chaos of motherhood, business, relationships and everything that comes from life. From airing out the dirty laundry to actually washing it, we dive into the messy, beautiful, and hilarious reality of navigating life.
Unhinged + Unfiltered: Who gave them a mic?
#37 - What Doesn't Kill You Leaves Your Nervous System Cooked
What if everything you've been told about trauma making you stronger is actually allowing you to sink further into chaos? In this deeply personal conversation, we challenge the popular notion that suffering builds character and instead explore how trauma fundamentally rewires our nervous systems.
Our bodies become calibrated to chaos and uncertainty after traumatic experiences. This calibration explains why so many of us find ourselves unconsciously drawn to chaotic situations, destructive relationships, or overwhelming busyness—our nervous systems are desperately seeking the familiar, even when it hurts. We share vulnerable stories about how this has manifested in our own lives, from sabotaging healthy relationships to creating unnecessary drama when things feel too stable.
The concept of the "trauma loop" illuminates why traditional talk therapy sometimes falls short. When animals experience danger, they complete a full cycle—perceiving threat, responding, and then releasing that energy once safety is restored. Humans often interrupt this process, never fully processing or releasing the trauma. This explains why embodiment practices and somatic therapy can be transformative—they help complete the interrupted cycle and finally release what's been stored in our bodies.
Perhaps most enlightening is our discussion of how seemingly minor experiences—what therapists call "little t" trauma—can profoundly shape us. A man yelling at you when you're eight years old. A parent's dismissive comment. These micro-moments get stored in our bodies and influence how we navigate relationships decades later, often without our conscious awareness.
If you've ever wondered why you keep repeating unhealthy patterns or why stable, loving relationships sometimes feel more threatening than chaotic ones, this episode offers clarifying insights and compassionate perspectives on healing. Your trauma is valid, your responses make perfect sense, and there is a path forward toward recalibrating your nervous system to recognize true safety.
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Welcome to Unhinged and Unfiltered. Who Gave them a Mic. We're your hosts, steph and Lorinda.
Speaker 2:Warning getting triggered is not only accepted but encouraged here. This podcast will dive deep into conversations that make you really think about life. No top level BS here.
Speaker 1:Where real women get real about the daily chaos of motherhood, business relationships and everything that comes from life. From airing out the dirty laundry to actually washing it. We dive into the messy, beautiful and hilarious reality of navigating life.
Speaker 2:Tune in for unfiltered conversations, practical tips and tools that actually work and are easily applied, and a whole lot of laughs as we navigate the ups and downs of being a woman together. Welcome back to Unhinged and Unfiltered. It has been a few weeks since we've recorded and we will share more about that soon chaos of cyclones and all of the things, both emotional and physical. Um, it has been a hot minute, but today we wanted to talk about a. It's not a meme, what do you call like serious memes, I don't know. Like a quote.
Speaker 2:I guess, yeah, I guess. And the quote was this I'm going to read it like verbatim Trauma doesn't build strength. It creates chaos within your nervous system, disrupts your digestion and traps you in constant hypervigilance. Suggesting trauma makes someone stronger, dismisses the immense struggle they've endured just to survive.
Speaker 2:And we wanted to kind of go through what happens firstly to your body when you are traumatized in some way. We also wanted to go through what happens afterwards, because we all know someone like this right, and it might be you where it's just things just seem to happen and just keep happening and it's like man, you could write a book about your life. It's insane, the amount that you've had to endure and et cetera, et cetera, saying the amount that you've had to endure and et cetera, et cetera. And the thing we need to understand about our nervous systems is that they get used to a certain calibration. And if that calibration is set to chaos, hard, traumatic, shitty things happening to you, that's where it feels comfortable. And I'm not. We're not saying before you start putting words in my mouth. We are not saying that you are causing the things that are happening to you, but I definitely do see some people kind of like you know, seek it out a little bit.
Speaker 1:I love how you just like try to tiptoe, like unconsciously, we make decisions that aren't necessarily the right ones, and the thing with the nervous system is it seeks out that familiarity and they can't really tell the difference between whether it's like safe or it's actually going to be there for you to grow or, like you know, move forward. It just is clinging on to what it knows and if you're somebody that constantly has that level of chaos or has that, you know, really busy lifestyle, it's going to cling on to that. This is why, like, a lot of the dv relationships get dismissed, because a lot of people don't understand the nervous system right. So you'll see somebody in a dv relationship and they can't leave and you're like maybe they're just not strong enough, and the fact is no, no, their nervous system is like this is familiar. If I do the right thing, I may not get hurt, but if I leave I don't know what that looks like. So it is that thing of the fear of the unknown.
Speaker 2:Our body actually has a fear of the unknown yeah, and that's just simply because it can't predict what will happen, you know. And DV relationships honestly, I use these as an example a lot because I think that it's really interesting the way that it works and people, just people who have never been in one, just don't understand it. Like, how can you possibly get sucked into that? And it's like, well, firstly, someone's not coming up to you and being like, hey, I'm a real arsehole. Like they're coming up to you and love bombing you and gaslighting the shit out of you so that you think that they're a good person and by the time that their true colors are showing, you're stuck. It's like they're very, very clever about it.
Speaker 2:And, yeah, it's the same with the trauma piece where you know we go, my God, like why would you stay with that person? You know that person's not even necessarily DV, but maybe you've just, you know, ended up with somebody who just doesn't really treat you very well, like it might not be DV, but it certainly might be bordering on it, and you're kind of going firstly, well, it's not as bad as some people say. So you, maybe I should just stay. But then also, yeah, your nervous system has calibrated to that and that it is. That is what it is going to be used to, because it can predict the outcome. Because, yeah, if you leave, or like you'll find as well, people will get out of those sorts of relationships and then they'll end up with somebody who is the opposite of that and really beautiful and safe, and they're like, oh, oh, no, no, no, no, no, and they'll sabotage it because it doesn't feel safe to them, because they don't.
Speaker 1:They're not used to being treated like that yeah, they used to think that's something that I really struggled with, like when matt and I got back together because we had a very chaotic relationship at the start.
Speaker 1:And then, like when we got back together and we were in a stable place, I remember literally walking into my therapist and being like I need to do something Right, because I'm bored and I feel like something's going to happen. But I want to control the situation and, like you can, you can feel yourself like nitpicking and being like well, my logical brain is like everything is fine, but my whole body is like this, doesn't feel safe because he's left me before. He's probably just gonna leave me again. And this is why you also see people like date the father version as well. Like you're seeing it, you're kind of like well, you're dating somebody who is your dad, it's because that's what you used to, right, you're looking for somebody that is familiar. So if you've had a chaotic childhood, you're probably going to and this is obviously not every case but you may gravitate towards somebody who is also in the same nature as that, even though you're like, my brain is like well, I don't want to be with somebody like that.
Speaker 2:but it's familiar, yeah, and like, even if they're not bad, people like my dad, my dad's great, you know he's a great guy, drinks a bit too much, but you know he's got his. He's got his bits and pieces. But I married my dad, I did because, again, like it was safe to me, I knew what to expect. And like, your brain does not care that you're growing or survive or thriving, rather it cares that you're surviving. So it will try to mimic patterns over and over again. It's why, when people like, oh no, I'm so spontaneous, I'm like, no, you're not, you're really like no human is we like to pretend that we are, but it's like, then you're, you're creating chaos, that's what you're trying to do, you're trying to escape things, um, but yeah, around the trauma piece. And again, what we need to also remember about trauma is it's not necessarily about the event itself, it's how we responded to it. So if your body decides that that particular event was really, really traumatic, then it will pair that with danger. And that's why two people can experience the exact same thing and one is like that wasn't really that big a deal and the other person is like, oh, my God, that was the worst thing.
Speaker 2:That's why two people can experience the exact same thing and one is like that wasn't really that big a deal and the other person's like, oh my God, that was the worst thing that's ever happened to me and it's why siblings often grow up differently. It's that whole nature versus nurture thing. And if your nature is to kind of blow it off and it's like it wasn't really that big a deal, it was fine. But the other person maybe is a little bit more highly strung or has maybe not had as good a base as you have, or whatever. They will see that and go oh my god, no, that was, that was awful. So we do also. I think it's. I think it's very freeing to understand trauma in that way, because then it's like oh, maybe there's not something wrong with me, because I, like, that particular event really affected me. It's. You don't even actually get to decide it. Your nervous system decides it, your subconscious decides it. It's not you. Yeah, you can't undo it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I think the other piece is as well as like an event, like, let's just say, an event happens and there's two siblings that are in this event. One may be traumatized straight away, like you will be outwardly the anxious, the, the need to go to therapy, the other all of those things, and you can see that person. You're like well, the other person looks fine, but then years later that's when it will will happen. Right, trauma doesn't actually have a timeline, like ptsd doesn't have a timeline. It just comes and goes all the time and that's why it makes it so it for us.
Speaker 1:It makes it very interesting to see how it actually navigates in the body and whatnot. But you will see a lot of people who don't understand and then will dismiss right. You'll see somebody who may be assaulted at 18 and then they're 80 and they're like holy shit, it's because their body is finally responding to the trauma.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think it's. It's very freeing, but it's also so interesting. I find it so fascinating the way that our bodies respond to things. It's just it, it's fascinating.
Speaker 2:But around the yeah, like, firstly, don't, don't let anybody tell you that what you've experienced has not traumatized you. Like nobody gets to decide that, even you don't get to decide that your body's decided it. So there's a lot of oh, that's not even that big a deal, and this is a lot what we do as adults right, where we'll look back at particular events that happened to us as children and we go that wasn't that big a deal. You know, that was fine, you were fine, it worked out okay. But to your child self, that was the worst thing that could have ever happened to you. It was horrible.
Speaker 2:I have experiences through high school which, as an adult, I can look back and go, yeah, okay, those girls were just bitches. But that's that's me as an adult, having done work around this sort of stuff and being able to apply logic and intellectualization and all of those sorts of things. But to 13 year old me it was awful and it did leave its marks and it did leave its wounds and it's like, yeah, you can sit there and say well, it shouldn't have it did yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:I also feel that on the opposite way as well of, like when you're a child, you're like, oh, it's fine, no worries, and then, as an adult, now I look back at things and I'm like that's not okay. Yeah, that's not okay. And this is the thing that I tell all my clients like you can integrate a shadow or a belief system and move through the trauma, but you may need to do it again and again and again, because you're going to get different perspectives right, because, like 20 year old me versus me, now I see things very differently and I know that, like in five years time, I'm probably going to go back and be like what the fuck? Um? And it's probably going to trigger me again, but in a different way. So it's like, as you grow, your level of awareness changes, your perspective changes. There's going to be life events that go. You go, wow.
Speaker 1:Actually that moment in time was actually really significant to me and I need to take time to process and that's like even the um on Friday. I actually did a reel, because friday um was the anniversary of when I was spiked and I found it really interesting because, like, your body will remember the trauma. So for like days leading up to it, I was like super anxious and I was just like like in my head like what the fuck is my problem? Like the most anxious I had been in a while, like waking up at three o'clock in the morning like nearly having a panic attack, and I'm like what is it like? Am I just, you know, coming down from the cyclone, is it? There's other things going on, like maybe I'm just really tired.
Speaker 1:And then I got a memory on my phone from like one drive and it was like a photo of me going out and I knew exactly which night it was and it was five years ago and my whole body like looking at the photo, it was like someone had just just like threw the dart and hit the target and I was like that's what it is, that's 100% what it is, because, like last year, I didn't really notice it because I had so many other things going on where this year I intentionally created a lot of space and I was just like holy shit, like I'm so fucking sad for that version, and I was like sitting with it and grieving with it and I was like that was one of those moments where I was like sitting with it and grieving with it, and I was like that was one of those moments where I was like actually that was a really significant event for me and I remember when it happened, like I got spiked and then I went to the hospital the next day and they just dismissed me and then I just started on with life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, went back to mothering, I went back to working, I went and done everything else.
Speaker 2:But now I'm like, wow, like that version of me was really hurt. Yeah, and that's the thing. Right, it's because you've been dismissed at the hospital. You're like, oh well, it's not that big a deal. Like maybe I should just get over it, like maybe I shouldn't be having this sort of reaction to it, and you sort of try to intellectualize it, try to logic it away and try to be like well, maybe I'm just being a sook and again, there's no shoulds with this shit.
Speaker 1:Like you either, you feel the way that you do end off yeah, and like, even like feeling, and I remember messaging Matt and being like look, um, because Matt is a fixer and I love him for it. But I'm like, look, I'm just going to tell you this and I actually don't need you to fix me, there's no solution, I don't need to feel better, like I'm just letting you know, just to let you know. I'm like this is the anniversary today. I do feel really sad about it and a lot of the time I know a lot of people are like well, it's just the anniversary, like whatever, like why do you even remember that? And I'm like, well, because I'm gonna honor that. If this was me three years ago, I would have felt like an absolute dickhead, but it's like just taking those moments and obviously my body in that moment was able to feel that, yeah, and this is like we I was talking to Steph about the trauma loop as well so, um, we both have a book by Peter Levine, who was a somatic therapist and he does a lot around the body um, and I think he was almost like one of the founders as well like really went into this and deep dived into it. So essentially, the best way to explain it, which really helped my brain was obviously we come from animals and say a gazelle is out doing its thing in the pasture or wherever they are, and they notice that something's off and bloody.
Speaker 1:What are they? Tigers come and get them and they're running. So their, their flight system is kicking in. They're running as fast as they can, but the tiger gets to them and what happens is they play dead. Right, they go into that freeze response, so their trauma system, like their nervous system, is kicked in, freeze response, play dead. Because what the play dead does is this tiger will hopefully drag them back to the cave, and it will. Either the gazelle will either stay in that freeze response and then not feel the pain as it dies, or, when the tiger leaves, will have enough energy to kick in and run. And then it's running and running and running and then, essentially, that energy is expended, it's run, it's finished the nervous system loop. With humans we're not the same. We have too many systems kicking in. We have too many many brains and whatnot trying to kick in. So then from there, so say you're in a car accident, car accident happens, you get out of the car and you're immediately taken to the hospital and you're sat down.
Speaker 1:You're maybe in a bit of a freeze response, but there's no movement there's, there's not much happening, and you just get dismissed and you're like, yep, you're fine, even though you've just been through something really traumatic and you potentially nearly died, like you're like, yep, you're fine, even though you've just been through something really traumatic and you potentially nearly died. Like you thought, yep, this is me, done Right, kicked into the freeze response, and then you go about your day. You haven't finished the loop. Which is why when you see people who are screaming and kicking and crying and then a week later they seem fine, it's because they've expended more energy, they're starting to close, close that root loop. Which is why we do embodiment work right. We do the, the somatic work, because what we're doing is trying to slowly close the loop, right.
Speaker 1:So an example of this is I was sexually assaulted and eight years later, still not really dealing with it, squishing it, went and done an embodiment and realized how unsafe I felt in my nervous system and in my body and all the things, and I started to cry and scream and then I was sobbing and then I was just holding myself and I'm expending energy, I'm moving through the loop.
Speaker 1:You don't need to move through the experience, you need to move through the feeling. Right, I don't ever put my clients back in an experience. I put them in the feeling. What is the feeling? I'm fucking angry, like angry, like fuck you. Then I'm sad because I shouldn't have had to go through that. And then my body is moving through the loop, so now I can actually sit here and be like, hey, I was sexually assaulted. Hey, this is the feeling that I get and I know my triggers and I understand when I'm getting activated. I couldn't do that before this embodiment and so it's just learning to close the loop there's obviously going to be big experiences that still come up.
Speaker 1:But a lot of us don't actually understand that you actually have to move through the experience if your experience has been stopped. My experience is I went into a freeze response during the assault because that was the only way that I could deal with it. I couldn't run, I couldn't fight, I just shut down. So now, how old am I? 10 years later, 11 years later, I'm still moving through that experience and that's okay and I think this is the thing. Like it could take you 20 years, it could take you 30 years, but doing the embodiments and the somatic work is actually going to speed up that process. That's why, sitting there and talking about it, a lot of psychologists will not talk. Do talk therapy around an actual assault. Now they do things like EMDR or we're getting more somatic therapists, because talking about the experience actually sucks you back in to the trauma itself yeah, would that then restart the trauma loop?
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, I've never heard it explained that way.
Speaker 1:That's so interesting yeah, and it's like just understanding that more just gives you an idea of like, when, like even on Friday, when I was fucking sobbing about this thing that happened five years ago, I'm like, oh okay, actually, I feel like it's better about it now and I can sit here and talk about it and I don't feel as sucked in, so you don't like. This is the thing with the coaching as well. Like when you're talking to somebody about an experience, experience, just be very careful that you're not re-traumatizing them, because your body doesn't understand in the moment versus the past.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, which is why people with ptsd have flashbacks yeah, yeah, and a thought can trigger that same response as as much as the actual event can yeah, and also I feel like this dismissal, like if you can get anything out of this episode right now.
Speaker 1:It's like that Steph and I will never dismiss someone's experience because one, we don't fully understand the whole picture and we also don't understand how it's triggered your nervous system Little T and big T, which Steph talks about all of the time. You can't tell the difference between it. Yeah, what is big to me may not be big to somebody else, and vice versa, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the other thing that trauma can create, especially if there's been a lot of it, is this whole, you know, suggesting that trauma makes you stronger, right? So it's that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, kind of verbage. I think that that's what I'm looking for. So that's what they're telling you, that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. So you go okay, cool, well, I survived. So I must be really strong. I'm really strong, I'm really resilient, I get through things, and that's what you're learning, right, every single time that happens to you. So the more that that sort of stuff happens to you and the more that you have to be quote unquote strong or resilient or whatever, the more that you are going to start to embody that identity, especially if you are getting attention for it.
Speaker 2:And at our core, we are all little attention whores. That's all that we're looking for. We're looking for people to notice us. We're looking for people to pat us on the head and tell us that we're good little girls or good little boys, looking for people to pat us on the head and tell us that we're good little girls or good little boys, like, we just want that validation. And if you speak to a lot of women. We all bitch about the fact that we don't get enough validation from our partners, from our kids, from our friends, like we all talk about this. So if you're sitting there being like, no, not me, okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you don't like the word, attention, um, I actually definitely had a shadow around this as well, the attention seeker. But our two core things are survival and belonging yeah, yep, and it's again to belong, exactly.
Speaker 2:And it's when you're getting that sort of you know, attention I'm just going to use that word because it's the best but, like, when you are getting that sort of feedback, that positive feedback from people looking at you and admiring you, going, oh my gosh, you're so strong, I can't believe that I could never do that. And I know that a lot of people who have experienced really traumatic events like Amy who was on the podcast a few weeks ago where she lost her daughter, and people are constantly telling her that she's strong and she's like I don't want to fucking be strong. And I hear this a lot from people who have, like, lost children and things like that where they'll say people say like I don't know how you do it. It's like bitch, I fucking have to like, I like what do you want me to do? Just knock it out of bed. It's not an option, right? So there's this whole like, there's almost this expectation, I think, because people are so scared of really like the big t. They're really scared of those really traumatic events like I lost a child, I was sexually assaulted, you know things like that, and they're like, oh, oh, I don't know how to talk about that. I don't know how to oh, I couldn't do that. Like, oh, you're so strong, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
Speaker 2:And it's like you can tell. You can tell the people who who do things like that, because they just freak out and you say something like that to them, and it may be because of their own trauma. It may just be that they're just not comfortable talking about about that particular topic, and that's okay. But you can kind of tell the effect that it has on people and I think that that's a really good reflection of our society as a whole, where we don't really want to talk about the bad things. But I digress. So what it then does is that, because we're getting that positive attention, people are checking in on us, people are, you know, they're bringing us food, they're doing all of those sorts of things, and we go.
Speaker 2:It's good to be strong, it's good to be resilient, it's good to not show my emotions and it's good to just say that I'm okay, it's good to say that I'm fine, because then I get that belonging, interesting. And your brain at all times is looking for things that it can put into its subconscious. It is looking for patterns. It is looking for habits that are going to help you to survive and belong, or belonging is part of surviving realistically, because if you get kicked out of the tribe and a group of tigers comes, you're pretty much fucked. I talk about tigers a lot too, but it's going to go looking for those sorts of patterns.
Speaker 2:So it's like okay, cool, every single time that something happens to me, I shove it down and I just get on with things, and people keep telling me how strong I am, like that's a good thing. And this is how shadows are formed, by the way, because we've decided that that's a good thing, and crying about it or whatever is a weakness. And I'm not saying that that is a blanket rule, but that's generally what our society does tell us or told us as children. Our generation, I think, is starting to break out of that, but certainly when we were kids, it was, oh, you're so strong, like, oh, my gosh, I wish I could be like you, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2:So then what happens a lot of the time is that we will start to embody that identity where it's like I'm just a strong, resilient person. I'm a strong, resilient person, and so then what can happen is we start creating chaos, and it's a creation a lot of the time. It really is the things that have happened to you, not your fault, the chaos that we create as a result that one is a little bit more under our control. So, because we don't know how to feel safe when things aren't going wrong for us, when we don't have to be that strong person, when life is actually just fine and we don't have anything to survive or to be strong with or to move through, we start to go looking for it.
Speaker 2:So this can look like, you know, constantly becoming friends with the wrong people, getting into relationships that you know are really bad for you, getting yourself into situations that are bad for you drinking, smoking, doing drugs, drugs. It can also look as simple and, as you know, I can't think of the word as having a very, very productive and busy life, because that's a good thing, right? Oh my gosh, you're so like. Look at how much you get done. I don't know how you get it all done in a day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I know I know, yeah, it can also just be look like, put like, I just think about relationships, well, pushing boundaries maybe liking somebody's instagram posts that you know that you're not meant to. Yeah, maybe messaging somebody, maybe just pushing the boundaries a little bit, like when you're like, okay, our relationship feels really safe and really stable, and a little boring like groundhog day, like you know, I'm just gonna message this person. Maybe I'm gonna message my ex-boyfriend, maybe, and that's like all good intentions, I'm messaging him to apologize, or you know, it's just like there's always a reason behind it and always an intention, and this is definitely coming from my own experience as well. I'm not sitting here and like being like, yeah, I don't do any of that. Yeah, I fucking create so much chaos, right, especially in my relationship, I was like, maybe he's gonna leave me, so I'm just gonna like I was definitely a bit of a relationship hoe, um, jump and jump and jump.
Speaker 1:So I push boundaries, even like I was talking to step about our businesses, right, like I have a really stable life, which is really weird for me to say sometimes, but like every time I've done something really big in my business in the last few years. There's evidence of my business that it grows really quickly when something significant happens in my life. And now I'm like, oh yeah, there's really not much happening. How can I create chaos? And I was even like voice noting Steph. And I'm like, mate, pass me, sucks in organisation, because what I would do is just start a thousand projects and, honestly, you should see my Google Docs none of them are fucking labelled. Because I'm just creating like these little chaos things, because I'm like, yeah, cool, I'll just keep going and going and going and going and going, instead of actually slowing down and being in the present and just being with the stability. It's just like noticing what little things are you making harder for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's obviously a secondary gain, right, like, for example, we just had a fucking cyclone. I very well could have been like okay, we've had a cyclone, which means I'm behind on everything, and that's the reason no, lorinda, you're behind on everything because you didn't fucking organise your shit Right. Another one I hear is I have four children. I'm going to let you know that is very valid to an extent, okay, because I don't have four children and I have two that live with me pretty much full time and mate, mate. So to an extent, I'll give you that one, but what are you doing? What are you not doing because you have four children? Yeah, you're not going to change. You're not just going to wake up tomorrow and only have three.
Speaker 2:You're not going to have five insane like yeah crazy yeah, and it's, you know, like being realistic about your situation. Obviously, yes, when there are. I mean, I've got three small children. They are three, five and seven, so they are we're very much still in. I feel like we're starting to, you know, move to the side of the trenches. I feel like we're starting to climb out of the trenches a little bit, like we're still in them, but not as much as what we were, you know, a few years ago. You know a few years ago.
Speaker 2:But I absolutely and honestly, looking back at my childhood, you would not really think that it was bad. You know, I like my parents are still together. I had one sister I did have. I do have a half brother and sister as well who grew up separately to us. So I do have bits and pieces.
Speaker 2:But there were things that did happen in my life that were like I lost a friend when I was 15 years old. He died very suddenly at 15, like, looking mortality in the eyes at 15 years old, where we're, we're supposed to, what do you mean? Like that's not supposed to happen, those sorts of things. And looking back at it now as an adult, I'm like, yeah, there were bits and pieces, but I feel like and I speak to clients about this sometimes where we feel like, because our lives have been quote unquote pretty good, pretty stable, you know, we weren't abused, we weren't neglected, like now that I have two parents who love me, you know all of those sorts of things we go, oh well, there should be nothing wrong with me, I should be completely fine.
Speaker 2:Whereas if you've got a child who did grow up in a very chaotic kind of you know situation, or had things happen to them, et cetera, they've probably been to therapy, right, because they've gone. Oh yeah, there's heaps of shit here and people validate it, of course they do. It's like, oh my God, yeah, your parents were abusive. Like, yeah, you should be in therapy. Oh my God, that's terrible. Whereas for people who didn't have those sorts of things, every single person, as a child and as an adult, is going to be traumatized. Remembering back to our definition of trauma, where it is not about the event itself, it is about how you respond to it, for that person, who did have a very, very rocky upbringing, the things that happened to me were probably not that big a deal, but for me they were huge because I didn't have the other stuff you know and and I'm fucking blessed I'm not sitting here being like, oh, poor me, but it's like we do also need to acknowledge that comparing lives, that's not helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's so funny. When you were talking about it, it just like sprung something in me. I've done like talk therapy for many, many years and I remember this feeling of every time. I would find I've had lots of different therapists so funny. But every time I'd walk in they'll be like so, how was your childhood? And I'd be like, can we not? You're not gonna find anything.
Speaker 1:I was like so adamant, like knowing what I know now and like the definition of trauma and how it works. I'm like I have parents who are together and have been together before I was born. I'm married, uh, stable. I have two sisters who are healthy, fit fine. I have grandparents who love me right, I have a roof over my head, I have food and who are healthy, fit fine. I have grandparents who love me right, I have a roof over my head, I have food, and my mom is a stay-at-home mom, which means that she comes to all of my events, means that she goes on all of my excursions. It means that I come home at 3 o'clock in the afternoon and there's fucking pancakes ready for me.
Speaker 2:This is so fucking interesting, please go on.
Speaker 1:And I was just like you're not going to find anything. I don't have any deep childhood assault. I don't have any thing that happened to me severely at school, like I was bullied a little bit like everybody else. Mainly I'm like you're going to find things in the later teenage years, early adult life. There's no point of you going into my childhood right and I wouldn't speak about it. There's still many things where I'm like I. There's really nothing there, but my attachment style is anxious everybody right because of the way that I responded to things.
Speaker 1:I always had somebody with me. My mum was always with me and I also lost my pot when I was two and obviously I don't remember it, but I remember being surrounded by grief. So my literally like let's just look at it. Two days before I was two and obviously I don't remember it, but I remember being surrounded by grief. So my literally like let's just look at it. Two days before I was born, my godfather passed away. It was my mom and dad's best friend and they were 22, 23.
Speaker 1:Then I was born, two years later my pop died, which is my mom's dad, and we moved from the farm to a house right From there. There my nan who was severely in love with my pop, like the ballroom dancing the, the soulmate thing. She didn't want to be here. She was like I just want to go, I want to go with him, so straight away at two grief then, because my pop passed away, I had no family.
Speaker 1:No, extended family like you see, reunions and cousin no, I don't have any of that. If I was to get married tomorrow, I would family. No, extended family Like you see, reunions and cousin no, I don't have any of that. If I was to get married tomorrow, I would actually have no extended family come. I did have a beautiful life. I was spoiled, rotten. I was the privilege kid I had dancing four to five times a week. I ended up becoming a dance teacher because mom and dad you know dad was a minor, so we made good income, which means we could do. I had a beautiful fucking childhood. But there were also experiences that did shape the way I love and the way that I feel love.
Speaker 2:Look at your face. No, honestly, I just think that that is so fucking important because I think and this is kind of going to go off in a little bit of a segue here but as parents, we focus so fucking hard on what we're doing, where it's like it matters that we're at home with our kids, and it matters this, and it matters that and it matters something else, and it's like, to a degree, of course, all of that comes into it. I'm not saying that it doesn't, and because I had the same thing.
Speaker 2:My mom was a stay athome mom until we got to school and she, like, because her dad died when she was very young, so her mom had to go out and work. This was in the 60s, so she was 15 months old when her dad died and so she didn't have her parents around. So she said to us all the time she's like it's my job to teach you how to survive if something ever happens to me. I remember her saying that to us all the time because she was so traumatized by obviously, yeah, at 15 months and in the 60s and 70s, like you didn't go to therapy about things like that, you just and her, her mom wouldn't talk about it.
Speaker 2:So it just got swept under the rug and we know that generational trauma tends to be handed down until somebody fucking deals with it and like she just didn't realise all of this stuff and it's like she did the absolute best that she could. Like my mum is such a great mum she really is. Like even now she lives around the corner from me and she's so involved in my kids' lives. Like she is such a good mum and things still happened to me as a child or happened around me that she could not control. Yeah, and it's just so important that we like I honestly I will die on this hill that the best thing that you can do for your children is heal from your shit so that then you're not blowing that up in their lives because you'll pass it on to them. It's their baggage if you don't deal with it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I shared something on my story this morning about remembering that one day your children are going to sit down and tell somebody how they were raised. And I was just like, because the thing is the intention, right they, if you like, let's take a step back again, right, like, so my grandparents and the way they raised my mother is going to affect the way that my mother raised me, right so my mom was there all of the time because my mom was an accident.
Speaker 1:Oh so my mom was just like the youngest by actually yeah yeah, so she was alone and mine and pop they lived on a farm and they would go away for weekends and leave my mom, like obviously when she was a teenager and able to do those things. So she was alone a lot of the time and the reasons we did dancing four to five nights a week is because mom lived too far out to go and do sports. So like, look at the way that she was raised and then how she's raising me and then I get to go cool, how do I want to raise my children? And the intention behind it like if you have a shitty childhood and the intention of like one, you'll never actually know somebody's intention. But like abuse and stuff like that. Right, my experiences were not shaped from a negative intention.
Speaker 2:I have anxious attachment because I was never alone, yeah, and it's because they loved me yeah, yeah and like, and you may have anxious attachment, but then your sisters may be securely attached because their mum was around all the time, like it. Just it depends on your nature and nurture and all of the things too. Yeah, and their intention.
Speaker 1:Their intention was beautiful yeah, and I think just and this is like we can definitely talk I think talking about touch and styles would be really great in another episode, because there's so many people who don't fully understand it or they just really hold on to it, and it's just about recognizing and, with trauma, like we said, little t, big t it's the experiences that shape you. It's like one moment, like when I went to go into therapy, they'd be like all right, tell me something that happened in your childhood that you remember. And I'm like I don't know what to tell you because there's all these little micro moments and it's remembering the micro moments I think some people forget. They're like where is this big fucking trauma that shaped the way I am? And I'm like, no, no, it's the micro moments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, I remember, um, one of the moments for me that really shaped me around men as well as I got yelled at when I was probably like eight and I got accused for bullying this little boy. But it wasn't me, it was somebody who looked like me and he went back into town on me, right, but I grew up when my dad didn't raise his voice. It wasn't until, like, my sisters were teenagers that I heard him yell because, um, they obviously pushed able to push buttons that I wasn't able to push, and so for me it just was like, oh my god, like okay, is my dad just some man? That this is actually not how it is. Like, do men yell? And then the first relationship that I got into, I would constantly get yelled at by his dad really fucking time. And I was just like this is insane. And I even have moments like and um, my dad was the dad that would always go and get the period stuff. Like nine times out of ten if I needed a pad or a tampon, my dad would go and get it right. Never, ever had a problem. All the boyfriends I had always had a problem.
Speaker 1:And then the other day I was in extreme period pain like worst I've had in over 12 months. And I'm on the floor and Logan's like right, dad, go get this. I'm going to move the chair and I'm going to heat the heat pack and I'm going to get the Panadol. And Mum, what do you need? And he literally put the Panadol in my mouth, everybody Because he didn't want me to move my hand. And that's because Matt's the same way.
Speaker 1:So it's just like those are the moments that I remember that I'm like, oh, I can't ask for help during my period because someone's going to be like, ooh, I'm not going to do that for you, but there will be somebody that comes along and does it like, oh, am I actually able to receive this now? Yeah, my son's taking care of me and my partner's taking care of me, but there's been a pattern of men who haven't taken care of me, and it's because, from this man who yelled at me at age I'm like, wow, my dad is one of a kind. It really shaped that for me, that I'm like my dad is one of a kind. No man will treat me like the way my dad treats me.
Speaker 2:Just such a micro moment yeah, and that's kind of that's the piece, and I think that's the piece that I speak to my clients about as well, like when we're doing this work. It's not about the huge moments, it's about like every single time that I speak to my clients. They'll come on and they'll be like, yeah, you know like not much has really been happening, but you know, the kids did xyz and previously I would have completely lost my shit about it, but I managed to stay calm. Like one of my clients, her child had a pretty decent accident last week and she messaged me about it because, you know, she was obviously like, oh my fucking god, and she's also a friend of mine, so she'd messaged me and told me what had happened, because our sons are friends at school and I was like, oh my god, what the hell?
Speaker 2:And I was speaking to her about it the following day and she's like previously I would have gone in there and been like what the fuck? Like what did you do? I told you not to do that, blah, blah. She's like I stayed completely calm and I was like, yes, like that's what we're fucking looking for, where it's those moments where you actually manage to override what your conditioning is telling you to do what your trauma is telling you to do, what your nervous system responses are telling you to do, yeah, and that's, that's the work. That's, and when you become aware of it and you you don't even necessarily need to know where it comes from, in my opinion, honestly, like it helps sometimes to have that awareness, but I certainly come across people who are very self-aware with, like I know that I do this and it's because of this, and they still don't do jack shit about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what. This is actually a really good way to segue this as well is like when you're over-intellectualising trauma as well, because I will always pull up my clients because I had one come on the other day and be like, okay, I'm doing this because of this and this and this and this childhood experience, and I'm like I'm going to stuck you right there. What do you feel in your body when we talk about this, this thing that comes up for you? And then we went into a process and it had nothing to do with this, right, because we want to pull the threads of understanding. Yeah, like, we can see it right.
Speaker 1:Like, okay, this, the trust of men probably comes from the thing of me being eight, maybe, who knows, really.
Speaker 1:But it's like when you're starting to pull the threads and find out why this is happening, you're then bypassing the feeling, you're then bypassing the opportunity to, I guess, close that loop or repattern or create those new neural pathways, because you're like oh, this is the reason, so I'm going to keep doing this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, just like when I'm like okay, I'm an anxious attachment style, which means that you have to tell me all of the reasons why you love me and you can't walk away for a fight because I'm an anxious attachment. That's not the case here. I don't feel loved because of this way, and the way that I would really love be loved is this way. Are you able to do this as somebody who isn't an anxious attachment? Maybe you're avoiding, maybe you're secure. Are you able to give that to me? And if you're not, how can I give that to myself? It's cool to have the pieces of bed like oh, I can see why that plays out, but knowing why and then integrating it are two very different things, yeah, and feeling safe enough to integrate it as well where it's, you know.
Speaker 2:again, you can look back at that particular piece and go, oh, that wasn't that big a deal Like oh yeah haha, I'm just that way because you know, yeah, my dad used to say X, y, z to me and like, haha, isn't that so funny? And it's like no, it's really not. Like when you were eight years old and that man yelled at you. Like, looking back now you're like ew, like that's gross, but like as an eight-year-old, your fucking fight or flight is triggered as hell. Like there's this random man who was a lot bigger than you who, yeah, do whatever the hell they wanted, realistically yelling at you, like having this big emotional reaction to somebody who's not even his child, like, yes, it is gross. And also that's yeah.
Speaker 1:And you know, what's so funny is like I can actually tell you exactly what he said. Oh, that's yeah, he goes. If you's so funny is like I can actually tell you exactly what he said oh, that's yeah, he goes. If you ever bully my child, I will bury you in the ground. Yeah, and I remember that, and that is one of those things of like I've been bullied and all of these things. But that was one of those moments where I remember that.
Speaker 1:And then what happened is a week later. I believe. In my brain it was a week later. I don't know if it was a week later, but they actually ended up getting divorced. And then I was like, oh my God, because I told her what happened, yeah, and so then my little brain was just like I took that on for a really long time.
Speaker 1:So then I'm like I don't want to say things to people and you're going to laugh at this, right, I don't want to say things to people because they may leave me or they may do something to leave somebody else, and I don't want to be the reason for that. Yeah, and she's just laughing because we'll talk about it another time but like do you see how those little things, these micro moments of like I'm a child in my own lens looking at this and going this man has said that if I bully him again which I didn't actually to begin with I'm gonna be buried right. So my whole like survival thing is kicking in. Then I'm watching two people who I very much thought they're in love and I actually had a lot of respect for them split. Then I'm watching a family break apart. Am I actually the reason? No, I'm not the fucking reason. But my eight-year-old brain is like oh my god, I said something and this is happening yeah and like sorry, sorry to cut you off.
Speaker 2:That was rude, um, but like this is what kids do as well. They, like human beings at their core, are very, very selfish and we think that everything is about us.
Speaker 2:We make everything about us isn't it about me, steph you're probably gonna fucking laugh as well, because, again, but we do, we make it about us. So then a lot of kids of you know who are a result, or like, come from divorced families and things like that. You can sit there until you are blue in the face and tell them you know, it wasn't you, you matter, etc. Etc and so forth. They are still probably going to project onto themselves like I wasn't enough, like somebody left, and all of those sorts of things, and it is just the way that we are wired. So I think to leave this particular episode in terms of our children, because a lot of I know a lot of our listeners are parents.
Speaker 2:When things like this are happening to your kids if whether it's a big moment or it's just you know, their friend told them that they don't like them anymore and they don't want to be friends, and, coming from personal experience, very traumatizing but instead of saying to them things like, no, you're perfect, no, no, no, don't feel like that, no, they're just blah, blah, blah, just validate them. I'm so sorry that that happened to you, babe. That must be really upsetting. Can you tell me more about how you're feeling? Yeah, let them experience it. Let them feel it you can't stop it and, honestly, allowing them to close that loop and take them out for a run or something, I don't know, um, but allowing them to have that big cry, allowing them to just have a soft space to land where they can just be really, really upset about that particular moment, without you trying to make them feel better, because it hurts our fucking hearts when our babies are upset or sad or whatever, and we don't want to see it.
Speaker 2:Just allowing them that space to close that loop and to do whatever happened, come and debrief about it and then have a big cry or go for a big walk or do whatever they need, even if it's a big hug like those big, like squeezy hugs where it's, you know, just lots and lots of pressure on their little bodies. Just allow them to close that loop, because it means that it is a lot less likely that that emotion will store in their bodies and that that will be a really defining event for them. It will still be an event, but it's allowing them to process that emotion so it doesn't get stuck, because that's what happens when we push it down and we don't talk about it and we don't validate it or we try and go no, no, don't feel like that, like that, like no, it's not your fault, no, no, no, no, it's like, but the way that, like that, that's the way that I'm taking it, that's how I'm feeling, so just let them.
Speaker 1:Let them feel their feelings yeah, and then I guess, to end this episode on a you view and this is just something that came to me as well as the dismissal you will have people in your life that potentially will dismiss you and your trauma and not understand the things that you do. The best thing that I can tell you is start with yourself. If you can bring a lot more acceptance and compassion and curiosity into your stuff, then it doesn't actually matter who dismisses you, because you know the truth is the truth and it's yours. And yeah, yeah, just start creating more safety within yourself rather than trying to find it from other people to validate your experience.
Speaker 2:your experience is validated by yourself yeah, totally, and instead of going, I should or shouldn't feel this way about this particular event, you do feel this way about that particular event, so let's just start with that yeah awesome, cool.
Speaker 2:Well, this has been fun, um, as always. If you have loved this episode, if you've gotten something from it, please drop into our dms and let us know. We do love to hear from you, um, share on your stories, all of the things, because the more people that we can reach, the more people can learn about this sort of stuff, which means that, hopefully, the more people can heal from their bits and pieces. But, yeah, thank you for joining us. Thank you so much for joining us. We've absolutely loved being here with you today.
Speaker 1:And if you have enjoyed today's episode as much as we have enjoyed recording it, please leave a review or drop into our dms. We would love to hear from you.