Unhinged + Unfiltered: Who gave them a mic?
Real women - slightly unhinged - get real about the daily chaos of motherhood, business, relationships and everything that comes from life. From airing out the dirty laundry to actually washing it, we dive into the messy, beautiful, and hilarious reality of navigating life.
Unhinged + Unfiltered: Who gave them a mic?
#45 - From Victim to Voice: Cat Dunn's Journey Through Domestic Violence
Cat Dunn shares her powerful journey as a domestic violence survivor and how she transformed her 20-year experience of abuse into advocacy for women's voices and stories.
• Surviving domestic violence for 20 years, learning it was a behavior pattern from childhood
• The challenge of rebuilding self-trust after trauma and how the body physically holds onto past experiences
• Discovering hypermobility diagnosis after years of unexplained injuries, connecting physical pain to emotional trauma
• Why leaving abusive relationships is so difficult – you're not just leaving a person but your entire identity
• How to support someone in a domestic violence situation: be present, listen, avoid telling them to leave
• The power of sharing stories through Cat's "Life After I Left" events and upcoming podcast
• Breaking the "sister wound" and finding genuine support among women
• Recognizing that domestic violence affects one in four women – it's someone in every room
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Expression of interest
Welcome to Unhinged and Unfiltered. Who Gave them a Mic? We're your hosts, steph and Lorinda.
Speaker 2:Warning getting triggered is not only accepted but encouraged here. This podcast will dive deep into conversations that make you really think about life. No top level BS here.
Speaker 3:Where real women get real about the daily chaos of motherhood, business relationships and everything that comes from life. From airing out the dirty laundry to actually washing it. We dive into the messy, beautiful and hilarious reality of navigating life.
Speaker 2:Tune in for unfiltered conversations, practical tips and tools that actually work and are easily applied, and a whole lot of laughs as we navigate the ups and downs of being a woman together hello, hello and welcome to another episode.
Speaker 1:And I wish you could see the smile on my face today because I am extremely, extremely honored that we have the beautiful cat here today and she's going to do her own introduction because I feel like I will just butcher it. But cat to me is somebody you know when you're working with people and you look going to do her own introduction because I feel like I will just butcher it. But Kat to me is somebody you know. When you're working with people and you look up to people, kat is one of those people to me. Right, don't look at me like that, because meeting her was like a very one-off thing. We were in the same shadow work, I guess, workshop, and she actually won the masterclass, like she got a free session.
Speaker 1:But I just remember watching her answers and watching the way that she showed up and I was like going through my own visibility stuff and I was like holy moly, this, this woman, is just like reflecting so many things back to me about how she holds herself, how she leads herself in her life and you know how she doesn't just advocate for herself, but she advocates for so many women.
Speaker 1:And I'm going to get upset in a second, because there's so many of us that have so many big stories that we're not able to share or that we don't feel comfortable in sharing or feeling safe. But Kat was one of those moments where looking at her it made me realize that this is my story, this is my life, and I actually get to express my story and tell other women my story the way that I feel like it should be, without having to hide things about myself, without having to feel unsafe and to know that my truth is mine. No one can really change that. So thank you for being here, kat, and I'm sure I'm gonna have tears throughout this, but I would love for you to you know, tell our audience who you are, what you do and like just the behind the scenes of who you are as a human.
Speaker 2:Start me off with tears.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 4:So hi everyone. I'm Kat Dunn. As you can hear in my accent, I'm not Australian. I'm from the UK, specifically England. Everyone thinks I'm Irish because I speak very fast. I will try very hard to speak slowly today.
Speaker 4:So, on the surface level, I'm a business owner. I'm an online business manager, which basically means I manage your business for you, so you don't have to, because most people don't want to do all the hashtag, hashtag, air quotes, boring things, systems, processes, structure, all those. I'm also a speaker. I'm a mentor to women who want to become OBMs and I have my own events. That's service level. That's what I do. That's who I serve. That's what I'm here on the planet for.
Speaker 4:But I suppose as a human, I'm very flawed. I'm very vulnerable. I'm very open. I'm way too honest. Sometimes I take way too much on. I am a recovering people pleaser and I do struggle with that to this day. I lack self-trust, which then projects onto others, but in a positive sense, I'm somebody who's growing and developing, and it took me 35 years on this planet to really find what we call the work, where I started to really think about what I need and what I can do to better myself, to better serve everyone else around me and I am flawed but real and I want to be better.
Speaker 1:I love all of that about just like owning all of those pieces, because when we get into personal development, which you know, it's all about the growth and how I can do better and be more. And for you it's kind of like this is where I'm at right now and I love that so much. And there's also another reason that you're here today of like you are an advocate for women, and mainly for advocate for women in DV situations, and I would really love to like kick this off about why you are an advocate for women to share their story, because I know that you have a really beautiful event. Why did you build that?
Speaker 4:So the other part of me is I am a domestic and family violence survivor.
Speaker 4:I was in abusive relationships for 20 years, so that's half of my life. So far it was a learned behavior from my childhood. I grew up in a domestic violence home. My parents had a very toxic marriage and by doing the work I realized that, obviously based on their childhoods and the marriages that their parents had, they didn't stand a chance because they didn't get the opportunity to work on themselves. They didn't know any different. They did the best they could with what they had at the time, but unfortunately it impacted their three children in three very different ways.
Speaker 4:My takeaway from that is I started dating men just like my father. He taught me to be abused. He taught me to be belittled. He taught me to be smaller and less than to the point now where I will never have a child because I don't know how to have one. I'm so scared that I will carry on the generational trauma and, no matter how much healing I do, I never feel like I'd be ready and I do believe that was taken from me in that situation. However, I don't look at it as a negative. My sister has the most beautiful child. I have a gorgeous niece who's the happiest oh, she's just the loveliest little kid ever and all I want to do is protect her and make sure that she can do whatever she wants. So in a way, it's reflected in a positive way. That way, as I discovered healing and moved away from those relationships and could stand on my own two feet and be myself, I realized how many people were drawn into my world who were also in domestic violence relationships or had experienced that or knew somebody who had it to the point where it would be nine out of ten women had experienced it.
Speaker 4:It is so common. If you think about COVID and all the facts and figures that were thrown at us, domestic violence is a pandemic. It's a national crisis in Australia because it's affecting everybody every day, even if it doesn't affect you directly. If you're in a room full of women, so there's 20 women in a room, it's one in four A quarter of every room. You're in room full of women, so there's 20 women in a room, it's one in four a quarter of every room you're in. A woman has been through it or is going through it, and I will say obviously it's not just women. Men do suffer abuse and I'm not belittling that, it's just the stats for women are catastrophic and I realize that.
Speaker 4:What happens when you leave a relationship and you start working on yourself. There's still this shame around it shame you didn't leave earlier, shame that you let it happen, or shame that you are a survivor or a victim to begin with and I hate the word victim because we are. But you get to change that narrative of how that word works. And I'm a pretty confident outgoing person. I'm a trained performer. I can get on stage and sing out of key doesn't really bother me. But the one thing I couldn't do was I couldn't talk about it because I was shamed. And as I worked on myself and started my healing journey, I realized that if I start speaking about it and I'm confident about it and I own it in a way that's protective of me and protective of the people around me, maybe other women might hear that and either find the confidence to leave or find resources to leave or help each other or actually be able to share their story. So I created my own event called Life After.
Speaker 2:I.
Speaker 4:Left, to give women a stage up on a safe, supportive environment to say this is my story that I need to say out loud because I don't know who else needs to hear it. And these aren't just stories of domestic violence. They're stories that only women can tell and it's their story. But we can all relate in some way. You don't have to be a domestic violence survivor to relate to the fact that I felt shameful or I had to learn how to heal or I was in a vulnerable situation. You can always take a bit of yourself from someone else's story, regardless of the topic, but you just need the space and the confidence to be able to say it out loud.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you even mentioned the word victim, and that holds a lot of power to a lot of people and it's something that I also have personally worked through, because being in the personal development industry, being a victim, is a bad thing and you're not allowed to be in that victim mindset and you're not allowed to play the victim or be the victim For you right now, in this stage of your life. How does that word hold for you now?
Speaker 4:When I say this, anyone who's in a situation right now or doing the work, please take this from my experience and it's not necessarily projected at you, but I learned a lot about taking responsibility for myself. Work, please. Please take this from my experience and it's not necessarily projected at you, but I learned a lot about taking responsibility for myself I allowed myself to be a victim.
Speaker 4:What, what happened to me is not okay. These men should not have done what they did. Obviously, in hindsight I could see that childhood. I could see the way they were brought up and they didn't really know any different. It's up to them to go on their own healing journey, but I was still in that relationship and in a way I manipulated them. Sometimes, you know, I became their mother, I became caring of them, or I gave more and more. I became somebody that I wasn't, just because I was so desperate to be loved or so desperate for them to love me back, so desperate to keep it because it's all I knew and it felt safe to me, even when it was terrifying.
Speaker 4:So, victim to me is a word that I can take and make it what it means for me, and it doesn't have a negative connotation. It's like the word failure. Failure is not negative to me because it's always a lesson. You can always get stronger and you have to have dark to have the light, which sounds a bit flippant, but it's so true. I look at my life now and I'm like, wow, what I'm doing now I could not be doing for women if I hadn't gone through that and maybe that's just the path I had to walk and I can say that now from a healing place, but obviously back then the world's against me. I don't deserve this and I was very much in victimhood because I just let it happen and I didn't do anything to change it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I love the responsibility piece. It's actually not taking away of what happened to you, it's taking the responsibility of your own actions. And I feel like that is so, like, as you're talking, even though I don't have any experience with domestic violence and I can take pieces of your story because the more that you push away from the victim and the more that you just stop looking at it, the more that you actually are in the victim. And I remember someone saying to me once and it was another coach, and she said to me why don't you just let yourself be a victim to that situation, not your entire life? And I was like crap, yeah, that that one really like stuck me. And then the other piece that she said to me and I don't know if this has any resonance with you, but she said you being the victim and not actually sitting in it is pushing you to do better in vengeance of that situation.
Speaker 1:Right, because I refused to look at the situation that I was in. I was like you know what? I have to prove that you know I didn't deserve that. I had to prove that I can make something out of myself despite the situation, and so I would turn my back to all of those feelings and try and build something. But it wasn't building something out of love and intention, to speak.
Speaker 1:It was building it to prove that person wrong, to prove everybody wrong around me and to prove that I wasn't a victim of that situation, instead of just going going. I am a victim of this but I'm not playing the victim anymore and, like you, sharing that I was just like it just gives me goosebumps, because there is a responsibility that we have to take and you've seen that and you've seen the parts that you had and you made something out of your life. But for those who are in that situation I guess for you in that timeframe that you were in the victim and you were coming out of that situation how do you feel like? How did you feel then versus now, in your body, right like somatically, like being in that victim to now, what is the big difference that you feel?
Speaker 4:Wow, yeah, like this is something I had to learn because I worked so much on my mind. Just change your thoughts and you'll change your life.
Speaker 4:Brother, alert doesn't quite work that way, because I ignored my body, because I didn't know that I had to do anything else. Yeah, let's go to the gym or let's go for a walk, yeah, great, but not really what we mean because, as I learned, the body holds trauma, the body holds everything that's ever happened to you and it's stored there, which is terrifying to me. And so, when I exhausted my mind, my coaches got to the point where they're like you need to do the body work, and I just really didn't want to. And I know for a fact, even to this day there's something in there that I'm not ready to face from my childhood and I don't know. But back then it just didn't feel safe because I have this huge trust piece. I don't trust myself because I allowed all of those things to happen. I allowed myself to stay.
Speaker 2:And as much as I can have compassion.
Speaker 4:I still struggle with it. So the idea of allowing my body to do its thing was so uncomfortable because everyone else had used my body, manipulated my body, my body had been a tool for them. You know I lose weight, I gain weight. I do this. You know, manipulating my body, my body had been a tool for them. You know how those weight, I gain weight. I do this. Like you know, it was always to please somebody else, so it was really hard.
Speaker 4:I remember trying to do a shamanic practice one day and like halfway through, I think the person doing it was male and he just, I think he put like one finger on my side and my whole body, just like, was so tight and so clenched and like I was paralyzed and he sensed it and back straight off and he was like you're just not ready to open up, you're just not ready. And I was just so constricted like. It was like then, whenever I've gone to sleep and you wake up, you can't move and you're terrified. For a second it felt like that and I was like, oh, my god, there's a sense memory coming and I need to block it out because it's insane. So my body and my mind was so disconnected that I just avoided it. So then I did what you usually do, at least for british people and I just drank a lot and I went out and I saw a validation from other men, like, do I look good?
Speaker 4:And I did it from a really outside perspective and I did it for a long time because I didn't know how to do it internally, whereas now there's still things I need to work on. There's always things to work on. But now I like I've had an ankle issue recently. I've had a back issue recently and I've taken care of it. I've gone and saw a chiropractor. I've like gone to see a surgeon. I've spoke to this person. I'm saying, like connecting with my intuition on what is going on, like I've learned how to, step by step, trust what my body is trying to tell me and figure out the best way to take care of it, rather than ignoring it like I did. And I think part of that is healing and part of that is my age, because the older I get, the more my body's going to fall apart anyway, but I've learned now as well that yeah, there's physical things, but where's the physical thing coming?
Speaker 2:from.
Speaker 4:It could be emotional, and I've learned how to use my intuition and trust my gut, which sounds really like easy to do, but it's not. Women ignore it to our detriment, and so I let my gut lead the way to the rest of my body. It's a practice, it's hard, but that's definitely the way I've connected more with myself internally yeah, and it's so beautiful.
Speaker 1:You like talking about all this because a lot of people, like I, come from a small town, so growing up we didn't have any talk, therapy, body work, nothing but like how one really significant trauma can actually affect your physical body for years and years and years later. And this is the thing like doing the talk, therapy and all of that is great, but like, how is your body actually telling you that there's something there? And I was talking to a few clients this week about the more that you stop listening to body, the louder your body will get. And for you it was like numbing out with external validation from men and alcohol. And now, years later, your body is like, hey, I'm still here, I've still got things to move through and, yeah, I just love all of that. How in your day to day, do you else take care of you?
Speaker 4:Again, if there's any business owners listening, we do tend to sit in our chairs for a long time. You look up and realize you haven't moved and haven't eaten. And I do these fluctuations when I'm really, really invigorated and get really stuck into something. But what's interesting is like I'll get really hyper, focused on a fitness challenge or taking care of myself, and I I get injured and it falls apart and I start to scratch and it happens over and over again and I'm like what is happening? And I recently got diagnosed with hypermobility, which basically means I'm really flexible on a basic level, but there's so many other medical things attached to that that explains my entire life and explains why I'm constantly injured, explains certain ways like I walk into walls, like I just walk into things, even though I know that, like all these weird things that I'm like, I just thought it was me like no, no, it's a condition like your heart called hypermobility, like oh my god.
Speaker 4:So I've learned that when I rush into these fitness challenges and things like that, my body just reacts and that's why things pop and things break and things fall apart. Because I haven't been listening to all these years, because nobody, like you say, told me, because all we have is a GP that gives you a pill, you pop the pill and off you go. So nowadays I'd be really conscious about how I move my body and how I treat it. I know if I eat really bad foods, I feel really selfish. If I drink too much alcohol like the hangover is so bad, there's just no point. So my body's literally telling me like, stop doing this thing, it hurts. And when it comes to exercise, it's finding those things that I can do that don't hurt. And it's really frustrating because I'm the person that wants to do better, jump higher and run faster, and I'm like sometimes I just have to get in a swimming pool and run in the swimming pool like like people stab me, like I'm crazy, but I'm like it's really good for my legs.
Speaker 3:It's really good. It's not just dropping on the knees and I feel like an old age pensioner, but it's just.
Speaker 4:I have to listen and do the things that work, otherwise I'm just gonna hurt myself and I'm right back to where I started.
Speaker 1:So yeah, every day looks a little bit different yeah, that's so beautiful and you even mentioned that, um, you didn't listen to your body for years. When did you actually get diagnosed with hypermobility?
Speaker 4:it was literally like three or four weeks ago, like it was oh my god, yeah, so recent because I've been having my back issues like basically I hurt my back by sitting down. It's like I didn't do anything to hurt my back and it just kept coming back, and coming back, and coming back. And then I did another fitness challenge over the christmas period and then january I went over my ankle and jim spread my ankle really badly and I thought just let it heal, just let it heal and it just still months later.
Speaker 4:It is not quite right and I exhausted every natural thing you do in terms of like for the GP. You take the drugs. My chiropractor said go to like, go go to an orthopedic surgeon, but I think like maybe Pilates or something to help. And then a 90 odd year old woman suggested clinical Pilates and said it just said it's changed my life.
Speaker 4:And I go and within the first session they did nine tests on me and they say you're nine out of nine hypermobility we can help that is wild because obviously back in the old days okay, all the days I'm running like 39 but they didn't know all this kind of stuff, but they didn't care. Or I went to a lot of men to treat me and not to be too flippant, but a lot of men obviously didn't really know anything about women's health, women's bodies.
Speaker 1:There's still so much we don't know about perimenopause or about periods, so hypermobility, I mean, people just thought, cool, you're flexible, go do gymnastics yeah, and I agree, there's so much that we don't understand about women's bodies, because we know a lot about men, because they're pretty simple, they don't have the hormone fluctuations, they don't have anything like that we do. Um, but it's so interesting that it took that long and I am starting to realize that a lot of women that I'm seeing are getting diagnosed late with, like ADHD or the hypermobility. I have a client who has POTS, like it's getting diagnosed really late and I think it's because, like my belief is that we don't listen to our bodies, we're listening to what our head is saying and what society is saying, and they're like, like for me, I got diagnosed with ADHD last year. Now, sitting here, I'm like how did I not know, right, how did I not know? But it's because I wasn't listening to, to my body, right, and I was using all the tools.
Speaker 1:I did the exact same thing. I exhausted all of these efforts. I was regulating, I was doing the work, I was talking, going to therapy, I was trying to be organized and nothing was working and my body was saying there's something else here. And for you to just only get diagnosed like a month ago after so many years of like injuries and injuries and even sitting down and just hurting your back. It's wild that your body was like cool, you've exhausted everything. This is what it actually is and now you can move forward in a way that's in alignment with the hypermobility because there is so many things that people don't realize with hypermobility and how to actually further take care of your body. I guess that also falls into the trust piece of like you said. You mentioned that the big theme here is the self-trust, and to wait this long to now be diagnosed with hypermobility how do you think not being diagnosed with it and getting injured all the time really affected your self-trust?
Speaker 4:Oh so much because you know like I hurt my knee many, many years ago when I was dancing. I literally popped out of place, pop back in, and people just went, oh, rest, it's fine. And then I danced on that for years and years and it never felt okay. I never felt comfortable, I felt unsafe, literally unsafe my body, because I felt like it was going to collapse at any moment. But the people around me kept saying just rest, just do this, just until, like years later, a surgeon looked at my knee and said it's in the wrong place, you've been walked. How have you even walked on that? And I'm like what the hell? So I had to again look. But trust in other people because they were telling me this. So in my own body one year doesn't feel right, but maybe it's in my head because they keep saying it's okay.
Speaker 4:Then I have surgery. Surgery didn't really, I mean, it helped, it got in its right place. But now my body's completely different since the surgery. And then I keep in here so I keep injuring, but in my household. Not to blame my parents, but what I learned from my mother was she's at the doctor all the time. All the time she'll take any pill they give her because she just wants a conversation. She's so lonely, she just wants to connect and that's where she goes. She gets a 10-minute consultation to give her something. Enough, she goes.
Speaker 4:My dad would cut off his own arm and just insist it will grow back. They are so opposite ends of the spectrum it's unreal. So depending which parent I went to, I've got different, different advice. And with my mother, when I went to the doctor, usually I was brushed off so I ignored. With my dad, my dad would just kind of say, get over it. Like after the surgery appointment and my consultation he was telling me I'd have arthritis and hip replacements, all these things.
Speaker 4:I was a young girl, I was in my late teens, and I was just crying. I was so upset because I just thought like it meant like I couldn't do anything I wanted to do, and I was going to be really old before my time and my dad was just so disgusted at me crying and kind of told me to grow up. And so I did, whereas if my mother had been there, my mother probably would have been like, oh no, no, no. But in a way I would prefer that because I needed just someone to hear me rather than shut me down, so that sticks in you. So then when you're with somebody, like a partner or something, I don't like to say I'm not well, because they're just kind of saying I'm okay. I dated a guy for nine years. Every time I was sick, he just accused me of pulling a sick day from work, so I couldn't win.
Speaker 4:So if they don't trust me, I don't trust me, so I must be making out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and you mentioned that you just wanted your mum to be able to be there and for you to be able to express and listen when you left. Like coming back to this situation. That changed a lot of things in your life. When you left that relationship, do you feel like that you had support?
Speaker 4:not for my family, in terms of my sister's amazing. My sister lives in australia. Like when I left my last abusive relationship, she's the first person I run to and she was the one that was witnessing it and one of the best for me. But my parents now my mother is a very simple creature and I mean on the most loving way.
Speaker 4:She's very sweet in certain ways, but she's had years of abuse herself. She's not quite able to hold serious topics. She can't have a real conversation, which is fine. I accept her for who she is.
Speaker 4:When I rang my dad from emergency housing unless you're homeless, I have nobody in a room to tell him, his first words were how did you let this happen to you? And I to tell him his first words were how did you let this happen to you? And I said back to him because you taught me to feel this way. And ever since that conversation he refuses to speak to me about it and I do think deep down it's because he feels like he let me down. Do you feel like he does take some responsibility?
Speaker 4:But he'll never admit that my dad's love language is he'll give you money. He's like do you need the money? Do you need that? Great, but it's, it's that thing. We've had that since kids. He's the money. He's the money because he just doesn't know how to. And that's fine, I can accept it, but it's, it's not what I needed. So I looked elsewhere. I had my sister and I had a community of women I met through coaching. I was looking in that way that I had that with the support and and he actually says to me to this day don't you have other people you can talk to about this? So I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I definitely feel like there's and this was just me speaking from, like you know, knowing people in these situations and seeing these situations that when you're in a DV relationship like this, it can feel very isolating. So, for somebody who is leaving that situation, how would you recommend them finding support? If their family doesn't understand, if their friends don't understand, then there's probably, like you mentioned, a lot of shame of, well, why didn't you leave sooner? Why didn't you do this, like, why didn't you tell us? So, I guess, for somebody who's in that situation, what would you say to them? Well, first of all.
Speaker 4:I'm so sorry this is happening to you and I I know that you're stronger than you think. You are doesn't feel like it, but you are. It's so important to have even just one person in your life that you can talk to or that can support you, and if you don't have that, it is really difficult. If you do have that one person, fantastic, lean on them and that person, please just be there for them until they're ready to leave. If you don't have anybody if you are able to safely there are a lot of organizations out there that are designed to support you through this and to make sure that you're not alone. Accessing those obviously could be quite dangerous, so I want you, to you, to do it a safe way. When you access certain websites, for example, there is a quick exit button. There are phone numbers. Sometimes you can text them, you can email and I would say, if you have some time for research, find one that works for you.
Speaker 4:So I'm in Victoria, in Melbourne, victoria, melbourne, melbourne and Victoria round me round and in my community. When they saw me struggling, they gave me a few options, such as Lifeline, which was helpful, but when it came to actually leaving and I need a safety plan, I need someone to support me and guide me to do that, because I have family and everything but I don't want to involve them because it's quite a dangerous time that for me the orange door, that organisation, was my Lifeline. They were the ones that I spoke to, who assessed me, could see that I was in danger and actually put in steps to protect me, to get me out of that property and into emergency housing. So then for me were my angels and the woman I dealt with. I actually said at the end of it I said if I have a child, I'm going to call out your name because you said you know my god, my absolute right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and oh my God, I don't even know how to segue that, because that was just so beautiful. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I guess, for the other side, the people who are not in those situations and they see signs that somebody they love is in those situations, oh my God, God and they see signs that someone that they love or someone they know are in those situations. How can they support them?
Speaker 4:this is such a difficult one and I do speak about dv in public and on podcasts quite a lot, because I'm trying to continue the conversation to make it as normal as talking about penthouse or bills, like because the more we don't talk about it, the more shameful it becomes. And I haven't a lot of people come to me saying like I've experienced this, or the local girl at the chippy behind the counter like I keep seeing my bruises and I know my husband works there, like how can I help? And the first thing to remember is it's not just here. Here's how you do it. Here's a text we can follow this. It's going to be very difficult for each person. So very difficult for each person.
Speaker 4:So if you're in their world and you're close to them and you can talk to them, the best thing for anyone who's in the situation, who maybe can't talk it's unsafe to talk them just knowing they have you, that you're there, that you're available, that you can talk about anything, is really key. Let someone know I am here if you need anything, if you ever need to talk, if you need. You know my phone's always on. You can ring me in the nighttime. Just you don't have to specifically say it's about DV or leaving the relationship, just saying I am here for anything you need and repeat it and repeat it, and repeat it until they believe you, because, as much as they might want to share, maybe they're not able to. For example, maybe the husband works in the same place or their partner works in the same place or you know their phone's monitored. I would just try and assess in person as much as you can, because as much as you might want to help by say, texting them here's a link to lifeline, here's a link to the orange door if their phone's being monitored and their partner sees that you actually could be putting them in danger, I don't want to scage with probably you don't do anything but assess it the best way you can and people who are witnessing this. There are organizations as well who are actually skilled and trained to provide you support, to help you figure out how you can support them or how they can support them without you getting too involved and become dangerous.
Speaker 4:But if, for example, like I, had people I could talk to there was a few people in my life that he allowed me to speak to, that did witness it or I could actually confide in a new one, going further, and it was their reflections back at me that made me realize that it wasn't okay. But at the end of the day, please, please, please, please, please, please, do not tell them to leave the relationship. Don't keep reminding them that's something better. Don't don't like, let them feel like they have no option but to leave because, as much as it's safer, we want them to. It's their choice and they will not leave before they're ready.
Speaker 4:And leaving is the most dangerous time and it can take women seven times to actually cut ties so they might leave and then go back and you won't understand it and that's okay. You don't need to. You just need to keep showing up and being there, because they'll leave when they're ready. And if you witness something really bad, if you witness an altercation, argument, if you're there, if something's really critical, please, please, please, call emergency services and get them involved yeah, and you mentioned that it takes them average takes them seven times to leave to feel ready to leave.
Speaker 1:Did you feel ready to leave?
Speaker 4:it got to the point for me where if I didn't leave and trigger one in here, I was very close to not be on the planet anymore like I could.
Speaker 4:Just I couldn't take it anymore and as someone who's been in it but people say, just leave, it's okay like he was my entire world again. He was tied to everything that meant me and everything about the life I've built. If he, if he left me, I was beyond homeless. I didn't have a country, I didn't, I didn't have anything and I was so in love with him although now I realize was mainly a trauma bond that he, the only reason for me to exist was him so to say, just leave, just didn't feel like anything. I'd rather not be on this planet than be without him. But it was when I realized that that is almost something clicked in my head of like that's not normal, that's not okay, you need to pick you now. And I still didn't leave immediately. But it took me to a breaking point before I could really logically look at it because I was driven very much by emotions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's a big thing for everyone to remember that when you leave that relationship, you're actually not leaving the relationship, you're leaving your entire identity. Right, you're not grieving a relationship, you're grieving your entire life, because when you're in these situations, it's like you mentioned the chronic people-bleasing is a fauna response which you learned from childhood. You can't leave. It's not as simple as being like. This person is hurting me. It's like my entire foundation of who I am and the life that I live is here, and I think that's actually a really beautiful reminder for the people who are not in those situations and who are noticing that there's things happening to maybe their friends or family or people they love, because it's not about us, it's not about us trying to save them.
Speaker 1:We're not the hero. It's it's allowing that person to see it. Maybe it is nearly getting to a breaking point. It's just. The biggest takeaway is you just need to be there for them as a person, because we have to remember that these are people instead of just looking at them as the victim. They are a victim of that situation, but they're also human and like it's just really like my heart is like beating so hard, because I think that's something that we need to remember when it's when people are in these experiences of we need to be there, we don't need to change anything for them, we don't need to save them, we don't need to label them as anything. It's just they are humans in a really shitty fucking experience and it's actually their choice yeah, I think it's key.
Speaker 4:It's support. Don't save, because then as well, you are making it by yourself and that's your own trauma planner. Because you want to save somebody, you want to help, and the other side of the coin is, apart from emotional distress or maybe physical abuse, financial stuff is so huge because, for all you know, they have no income. Maybe their partner's kept all the money. They have no way to escape, maybe they have kids, maybe they are married, maybe there's a mortgage.
Speaker 4:There can be a lot of factors that make it feel impossible to leave, and it's not impossible, but it makes it that much harder. So you have to get in grace with the fact that you have to figure all that out as well, and leaving is the scariest, most dangerous time. It doesn't stop there. You could leave and then they fight you for sole custody or they start saying that it's all your fault and you're crazy and all these things. The rumour will start. So they're still human. You don't know what's going to happen. So they need a bigger support after they've actually left as well. That's going to be way bigger than when you can support them. I always say get people involved who are specially trained in how to provide this advice and the support because there's so many out there for all states in Australia and beyond.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, my goodness. Earlier and beyond. Yeah, oh, my goodness. It's just. I am so glad that you're able to share all of these things because I know there's going to be people who are going to listen to this and and see you and know that, even for people who are not in those situations, that it doesn't end when they leave. It's something that I'm assuming for the rest of their lives, that they will. They will hold and have to work through, and even you're talking about self-trust. That's something that you're having to work through now, even after being out of it for a period of time. I'd love to know how that experience shaped you in your business.
Speaker 4:It's interesting because, when I started my business, I was in that relationship, and the business was the reason to get out of bed in the morning and I could show up and connect with someone. That just wasn't him and wasn't me. So what I did at the beginning, though, was I poured so much myself into it that I was so burnt out and so overworked, because I had like 11 clients at one point, and I was just online from dawn till dusk. So when I left, I was just so exhausted that, basically, my business kind of like just collapsed because I couldn't focus on anything. But I realized that I'd given so much into it because I'm just trying to avoid, trying to avoid everything that was happening. It was my way of escaping, just kind of like you would doom scroll, I would go out and drink alcohol. My business was my avoidant, but now, when I'm in my business, I still probably over serve.
Speaker 4:I'm definitely a bit people pleasing in my business. I definitely am too over-serve. I'm definitely a bit people-pleasing in my business. I definitely am too available, but it's because I just want to help, I just want to serve, I want to show up, I want to give support where I can, and I work with coaches predominantly because they are going to change women's lives. They changed mine. I could not have left and I would not be here today without the right coach and the right community. That I feel like if I can support women who are doing the same for other women and they get to change their lives and show up in the way that they want to, and then they encourage everyone else around them, there's this beautiful domino and that's what drives me today. I have to remember, take care of me, obviously, but I just get so involved in business in terms of like I just want to help.
Speaker 4:I just want to say everyone else can be helped now like I want to have a big impact. How can I make it more? How can I make it more so obsessive?
Speaker 2:in a different way.
Speaker 4:It's not. It's not a crutch anymore, it's a. It's a drive just to make the world a better place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and being an OBM and helping other. You know people get into O, though you're doing a lot of speaking events right now.
Speaker 4:I am. I I obviously work with a lot of coaches. I've worked with coaches personally and in business and I've worked with a lot of high profile people as well and I saw the impact they were making, you know, in their podcasts and speaking, and there was a desire deep down that I want to be on stage because I'm a trained performer like I actually trained actress, I can say I can dance, all those things. I didn't do it because I'm only okay and it's not very well paid. So when I sit with everyone, I've got this urge. I had to sit there and think, actually, is this just me wanting to be on stage and be seen? This is a validation. This is just like oh look, she did so well. Is it coming from that place or do you have actually something to say? So I started working with my speaking coach, jackie Maloney, from the first place. They asked me you want to perform? Everyone to do something? What can I do? How?
Speaker 2:can I be on?
Speaker 4:stage and I was very aware of it. But I thought Jackie is just such a warm, beautiful, sound, yet strong person with me because I've known her for years that she could point me in the right direction. And when I started I almost quit because I knew that that was coming through this validation piece. But then, as I was working with her, I was talking about my domestic violence experience and when I started I almost quit because I knew that that was coming through this validation phase. But then, as I was working with her, I was talking about my domestic violence experience and I was like God, you know, what changed my life was. I heard other people's stories and I heard a podcast about it and I realized what was happening to me and I think that's my keynote. And she said I think that's an event. I said what she said I think that's an event. I think people sharing their stories in the safe space. I think I think you should put on an event.
Speaker 4:So I did, and that's how life after I left was born. And at the first event I was one of the speakers. So I told my domestic violence story in stage for the first time, and that was it. Like I just like, oh, I have, I have something to say, because afterwards people came up and shared their story with me or asked advice on how can they help somebody else. Oh, my god, that was so brave. And it wasn't brave, it was just honest, like I just want to be honest. And so I was like oh, if people got so much from that and they're just in this space, can I share it more? So for me, if I don't say it out loud, if I don't talk about domestic violence, nobody else is going to and I know they will, but it's like it's okay to have another voice.
Speaker 4:I don't want it just to be once a year. We talk about it, we bring awareness and then another woman's killed the next day. You know, in Melbourne there's a very famous land where people graffiti the walls and they've put up every single a poster of every single woman who's died in the past year. And I got vandalised and that breaks my heart, absolutely breaks my heart. People are like it's war on men and I'm like it's not. It's honouring women that died for no reason other than somebody didn't listen, and whether that's government, whether that's the perpetrator, I don't know. I'm very lucky that I had a very good experience with the police, had a very good experience with the courts, lucky that I had a very good experience with the police, had a very good experience with the courts. I know it's not the case for everybody, but I just want to talk about it. Can we just talk about it? Mental health was such a taboo 20 years ago. It shouldn't be a taboo. It's a national crisis. I should get attention and we should be stopping it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, sorry. I just listened to all of that and I'm like just, it's all landing and I'm like this is why that you need to keep speaking. And when you got off the stage after speaking, at that, that first event and sharing your story for the first time, how did you feel?
Speaker 4:well, kind of like we did at the start. Jackie got on stage afterwards because she was my emcee and she like just shared, betsy, why I created it and a bit about my journey, and I think I broke down because it was kind of that the trust of like, well, you can do this. There is, there is a story to tell you. It isn't about you, it's about them, because you know, I see women in the audience crying or reaching for each other's hand, because I'm in this room full of like 50 women and I'm like quarter of this room. We're going through it right now. We'll have gone through and I just want them to know that I see them and they're not alone.
Speaker 4:And even if they don't want to share their story they can't share their story someone else can share it for them and someone else can hear it and take steps to leave. So it was very overwhelming but at the same and exhilarating in terms of could I have saved someone's life tonight? I saved one life. That that's it. I can stop and I can be okay. So it felt right. It felt right to share.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I'm just going to go and sob later. Oh my God, my brain is going. If that part of you that was in that situation could oh my God, I'm going to cry the part of you that was in that situation and imagine if she was standing there watching you right now. What do you think she would say to you?
Speaker 4:I think she would say I had no idea that was possible. I had such a different life plan for us. But I'm so proud of you because, as well, the way I was raised when I was younger it was very regimental in terms of I just learned that you go to school, you go to college, you go to university, you find a job, you meet a boy, you get a house, you get married. You go to university, find a job, you meet a boy, get a house, you get married, you have your kids and that's just what I I knew to do. My sister did that until she realized it didn't fit for her and she came to Australia and now we have amazing new lives. So the idea that you can have your business, you could leave abusive relationship, you could speak other state, it's just felt like two different people. So my younger self would just be like what?
Speaker 4:on earth you live in australia. Oh, my god, have you been on the set of coming away like it's just like. It's just such a? It's like watching a hollywood movie and I'm so grateful for all of the trauma and all of the horribleness because without it I wouldn't be able to change other people's lives just by sharing a story, which that's what it is. It's a story, it's my story, but it's a story, an impact that can harm the ripple effect. And I've been writing since I was a kid. I used to do pop-up books and I had a series called the desk gun and it was like a pencil and a pencil case and a rubber that used to come alive when the kids went to recess, kind of like toy story, but with stationery, like I know that little girl, like creativity, that Barbancy was selling that. I'm kind of still doing that today. So she'd be so chuffed that, oh, you wrote something and people listen to it. That's so cool. So, yeah, I think she'd have a little grin on her face. It's so beautiful and I think it's.
Speaker 1:She's having a little grin on her face. It's so beautiful and I think it's so beautiful that you're in a place where that you can see the gift because not always to see the gift of our experiences and for you to see the gift and for you to get up, and because I could not imagine it would have been easy at some point to to share those things, to to openly express what you went through, and and I think you're so right like maybe women won't share their own story, but they get to feel validated. And I remember like when I was younger, there was a girl who had put on Facebook a similar experience to what I'd been through and I felt so fucking validated and that's what I mean. Like not that I've been through any domestic violence, but like when you get up and talk about your stuff, I'm like I feel so validated and that's the feeling that so many women and even men are going to feel, yeah, and I guess too yeah, at our second event, my friend Haley.
Speaker 4:She spoke about foster care. I didn't even know her story, I didn't know she was raised in foster care. Afterwards a woman ran up and said you're the reason I came today. I've never heard anyone else talk about it. I had the same experience and I want to change foster care for future kids and I was like pencil, mic drop, like done, because then they've connected and now this woman has a business and she's going to change foster care because she saw herself on stage with someone else, that's exactly what I want to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're right and I literally love that your event isn't just domestic violence. There's been so many different. Like I've looked at all of the speakers and seen all of their different stories and you're right. Like we also have clients that come to us who have had similar experiences and it's those experiences that we've been through that change other people's experiences and so forth, and it's so wild to see so many different perspectives of things.
Speaker 1:Like you said, with supporting somebody, it's actually not a textbook thing of this is how you do it step A, b and C.
Speaker 1:It's so individual, which is why everyone's stories, even though it might be so similar, they're so individual. And to see so many different women speak about their stories and and how they've moved through it because it is even that the leaving side of things you said is the most dangerous time it's gonna be different for everybody, and to know that it's not actually a B and C. Life is not linear. It's not. You know all of the steps, it's how you move with it, and I just feel so grateful that you are here speaking to me today about these things, because there's things that I didn't know and gives me a wider perspective of like how we can actually continue to support more women, and most of it is just being there. And you being here today, I know, is going to validate so many women, and there's a big part of my heart that feels so grateful that you're here. For the women that are listening, maybe today, maybe tomorrow or next week, who may or may not be in this situation, what do you want to share with them?
Speaker 4:it took me a long time to heal my sister wound. I was one of the guys. I was a pick me girl for a long time and now I'm in the world of women. I'm so obsessed with you all I cannot even describe it. So my message to all of you is you are so not alone.
Speaker 4:I was so of the idea mindset that women are vindictive, women are competitive, women don't have your back, and maybe that's just what I experienced in corporate. But it's so not true. There's so many incredible people out there that I wouldn't know without my DV journey, that I wouldn't know without my business, that I wouldn't know if I hadn't found coaching. You just have to find the right people and if you don't feel like you're seen, supported and heard in your female group, you need to find a new one. Or if you don't have any, go find them.
Speaker 4:Like I recently joined Bumble for Friends because I'm like let's bring more people in, let's try this, let's see if it works. Oh no, I'm trying. That's why I go to so many networking events. That's why I join so many memberships. I'm just trying to see where my people are and not to get clients, not to just trauma dump, to just connect and show and let you say I'm here. What do you need to say? What do you need? How can I support you? Because the more we support each other, then we can be more independent, we can let shame die and we can just be ourselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let Jim die and we can just be ourselves. Yeah, and that's huge. The sisterhood wound was something that I also. I feel like you're a beautiful mirror right now. For me, it's like that wound was deep and it is our conditioning, it is society and, I think, learning that you don't. It's not a give and take relationship, it's just being in the moment, being present, because listening to somebody else's story is so healing for yourself. But I think people forget the most simple thing is, if you just listen, you don't need to fix, you don't need to do something, you just need to listen, because they probably haven't been heard for a really, really long time. So thank you so much for being here and I would love for you just to like where can we find you for my business owners who listen, how can they get in touch with you? And also like what's up and coming in your business?
Speaker 4:So you can find me on Instagram, linkedin, facebook and my website under cat louise dunn, capital c, and what's coming up is, as I've mentioned, I have these life after I left events. I've had three in seven months, so we're taking a short break. They're currently only in melbourne, but I have big plans for next year, so stay tuned. But what I'm going to do is turn that into a podcast. So I'm going to have life after I left podcast and it launches on the 22nd of May and you can find out all about that on Instagram at Life After I Left podcast. So come support the show, because what I'll be doing is bringing in all sorts of women with all sorts of stories to just share what it is that they want to share with the world, so we can hold space and listen and just show approach in that way.
Speaker 1:That's so beautiful, thank you, thank you. Thank you for being here and I'll put all of your stuff in the bio and I'm just so deeply honoured that you get to share your story and that you get to be here, and just grateful for that little thread that pulled us together. So, thank you, thank you. You're very welcome. I love how the universe works.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for joining us. We've absolutely loved being here with you today.
Speaker 1:And if you have enjoyed today's episode as much as we have enjoyed recording it, please leave a review or drop into our DMs. We would love to hear from you.