Unhinged + Unfiltered: Who gave them a mic?
Real women - slightly unhinged - get real about the daily chaos of motherhood, business, relationships and everything that comes from life. From airing out the dirty laundry to actually washing it, we dive into the messy, beautiful, and hilarious reality of navigating life.
Unhinged + Unfiltered: Who gave them a mic?
#49 Wait? Body Confidence? Yes, Body Confidence With Jemma
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Welcome to Unhinged and Unfiltered. Who Gave them a Mic. We're your hosts, steph and Lorinda.
Speaker 2:Warning getting triggered is not only accepted but encouraged here. This podcast will dive deep into conversations that make you really think about life. No top level BS here.
Speaker 1:Where real women get real about the daily chaos of motherhood, business relationships and everything that comes from life. From airing out the dirty laundry to actually washing it. We dive into the messy, beautiful and hilarious reality of navigating life.
Speaker 2:Tune in for unfiltered conversations, practical tips and tools that actually work and are easily applied, and a whole lot of laughs as we navigate the ups and downs of being a woman together.
Speaker 1:Hello, hello. And we are back with another episode, and I feel like my favorite episodes are always when, like, guests come on, because I get to hear so many different perspectives and stories, and I think that's the piece here that I really love about it Hearing other women with their stories and the women that are walking the walk, the women who have been through so many different things in their life and they're still here showing the fuck up. And today we have beautiful Gemma, and for Gemma I was like a silent stalker. I'm a silent stalker for many of you and I just really love silent stalking because I get to have a feel before I even, you know, meet them and talk to them.
Speaker 1:And Gemma, to me, is somebody who does walk the walk, like there's a lot of coaches out there, there's a lot of different people out there, but you can tell when somebody's walked the walk and I really feel that she's done that and she continues to do that, and that's also a difference of somebody who's not only walked the walk but continues to walk. And so she, to me, is body confidence. She reflects so many things to me about how I still have so much more I can love about myself, so much more that I can heal with my body and also like how confidence is deeper than the surface level, because you can get on Instagram and you can post the photo. But when you post it and you feel that dread inside of like what is everyone going to see, what is everyone going to think, I think that's the next level, that is confidence to me. When you can post the photo and go cool, people are probably going to say something, well, oh well.
Speaker 1:But she, yeah, she is such a beautiful energy to me. She's's like this big, playful, fun, loving. She's even wearing pink right now, like she is. So her energy is so beautiful. So I'm so excited to have her on, because once again, I did Silent Stalk and then Rambling Message and be like hey, can I come on your podcast and hey, can you come on my podcast. So, gemma, I would love for you to introduce yourself like who you are, not just in business life but day-to-day life as well.
Speaker 3:First of all, thank you for that lovely introduction. I'm just going to come back and listen to that anytime. I'm sad because that just gasped me right up and I was also a silent stalker of Lorinda everyone, so we've just been silently stalking each other, which is great, yeah. So I am okay. I'm going to gonna start with business.
Speaker 3:I'm a confidence coach is probably my title, but my main passion is basically helping women particularly realize that they can be so much more than they think that they can in terms of. I feel like so many of us feel like we need to squish ourselves into some little societal box and be nice and be kind and be quiet and be polite and all of these things. But when we can actually be ourselves and for a lot of us maybe we don't even necessarily know who that person is because we've lost it along the way that's kind of when all the magic happens. So I do that through work with confidence. But my other really big passion is very much so body confidence and our relationships with our bodies. I like to call myself a fat activist as well, so I believe in equality for all bodies, whether that is body shape and size, but also just all the different intersectionalities of that. So I'm really passionate about loving and accepting your body, and I don't mean the way that it looks, I just mean it as a thing that is carrying you through your life, no matter what it looks like. So that's probably me. From a business side of things and then personal side of things. I feel like the biggest thing about me is I'm such a dork and I know so much like what you just said about people posting a photo and then getting the self doubt or posting a real. There are so many things that I post. I'm like this is so fucking stupid. I do so much stupid shit and yet I love it. I never have that self-doubt Like I'll post something and go like. I remember I recreated a reel of when Saltburn that movie came out and he did the naked dance to Murder on the Dancefloor at the end. So I wore like a skin-coloured bikini and did a dance like copied that, and I remember someone in my life being like, well, that was, um, that was a choice and I was like I make myself laugh, that's all that matters. Yeah, don't go on my Instagram thinking I'm going to be a cool person. I'm not a cool person, but yeah, I'm a dog.
Speaker 3:I love cooking, I love food. So I mean, I think we're probably going to talk a little bit about my journey today, but food is something I struggled with for a really long time, but now food is just something that purely brings me joy. I love cooking, I love baking. If I'm ever stressed, you will find me baking and then gifting that to all the people in my life, because food is totally my love language. I love sewing, I love crafting. I love sewing all of my own clothes. I love exercise movement. I love Pilates, running weights. I love reading. I love anything crafty and also plants. I'm currently surrounded by plants that are being propagated next to me, so I can't move my hands too much or I'm going to knock over a plant.
Speaker 1:But that's it in a nutshell. I think that is so funny. I love the dork. I literally wet myself when you said that, because I love I love dorky people, because I feel like it allows other people to be dorky as well, and it's so funny. I literally did a reel of me this morning, like being chaotic and, like Gemma, you've already started to see my chaotic side, but not many people see the playful chaotic. And I think it's cool that when you can start to show up in so many different aspects of yourself and that's something that you reflect to me of like, oh, I don't have to show up as, like this business woman all the time that is serious about her job I can actually have fun with this. So that's another reflection. The other reflection is that we're so similar but so different, because I can't sew for shit, I can't cook for shit and I would kill a plant pretty quickly.
Speaker 3:So I just have all of the grandma hobbies to go with my 8.30 pm bedtimes. Basically, that's pretty much my life.
Speaker 1:And I literally love that so much. But yeah, getting into, I guess, the nitty gritty things of like, the first question that comes to mind is why confidence, why body confidence, like, why are you doing this?
Speaker 3:I feel like, okay, I mean it's a long story really, but basically from the time I like when I was a kid, I was that quirky I was myself now, but smaller. Basically I was quirky, I was weird. I was the kid who wanted to be friends with everyone, like I was the kid who made friends with the weird kids that nobody else wanted to be friends with. I just was like 100%, completely myself, little drama queen, little out there child who loved wearing tie, dye and all of the things which, if you see how colorful I am now, it makes so much sense. But I kind of lost that, I think, from probably about the time I was 10, you know, like that age it's tricky. You're getting to the end of high school and into primary school and you start realizing that, oh, like, maybe there are certain things that are platformed above other things. There are certain things that people prioritize. You're starting to hit puberty. You're like, okay, boys, which I mean now I've realized I'm queer, so that's totally different.
Speaker 1:Back then I was like, oh, oh, boys, like want everyone to love me but so I feel like so funny, because my thought was like, when you're talking about rainbows, I'm like interesting, like had this thought, and then you said it.
Speaker 3:I'm like, yeah, okay, this makes total sense yeah, when I came out to my best friend, she looked me up and down and went oh my god, how did we not know this?
Speaker 1:it's like yeah, true that is so funny yeah, but you're so true, like it's so true. Even now I think about it as like a mom and their school is always like we cater for, like differences and all of these things and individuality, and I'm like, no, you don't. Like you know, you fucking don't, right. Because everyone has to have a uniform, right, and I understand the duality of that of making sure that, like all kids, can you know, the kids who don't have the resources to clothes and whatnot, because then that would be a whole thing. But like you don't, they have to, their skirt has to be a certain length, their socks have to be pulled up a certain way, like especially private schools, and if they don't make a certain like grade or they don't succeed in something, then you, it's bad. So I don't, and I like listening to that, I'm like it was the same when I went through school. Like you, you really want to belong in that era, and to belong you do have to fit yourself in a box.
Speaker 3:I took it to a whole other level when I went to high school. I had cause. I like I was friends with everyone but I wasn't cool, like I really wanted school captain and I didn't get school captain. Then I didn't even get house captain and I was like, but I'm a good person, like why am I not getting this?
Speaker 3:And I think that was again one of those times where it was like because that's not what matters, that's not what people care about. It was the like the hot girl as much as you can have a hot girl in grade six, you know who got school? Yeah, it was like the cool ones, the pretty girls got, got the captain things. So when I went into high school, I had one of my closest friends was going to the same school as me, and so we sat down in the summer holidays and we made a plan for how we were going to be completely different people once we got to high school, because we were going to be cool. So and I mean she was the one because I was like I don't know how to be cool, I don't know, I'm weird.
Speaker 1:You're like this plan's all good and well, but what?
Speaker 3:does that even look like? Yeah Well, she did all the research, which back then, like there wasn't social media or anything like that. So we had like plans on how we would change how we dressed no more tie dye, I was allowed to wear tie dye how we dressed, how we walked, how we spoke. Like she literally was reading, I'm guessing, like Dolly magazines maybe, and like looking at videos on how we walk to like sway our hips to make boys like us.
Speaker 3:So I went into high school going I have to be completely different. I can't be myself. If I want to make friends, if I want to be cool, if I want to be accepted, I have to be a completely different person. I'm like that's really hard. It's really hard to do that and I mean, look, I failed miserably. I ended up making friends with the weird kids anyway, because that's who I am and that's what it was.
Speaker 3:But there was very much that like push pull I think throughout my whole high school where I just kept feeling like I need to be a different person, I need to change. I went through periods where I went no, I don't want to be part again the same situation, don't want to be friends with the weird kids anymore. I want to go and make friends with the popular kids. So I have like strategies again to change who I am as a person and a big part of all of this was definitely related to my body. So, like you hit puberty, you change. I'm quite tall, I'm 5'11". So I shot up in grade five or whatever it was, and you know you shoot up, you put on weight again, as you're meant to in puberty. But to me it was like, oh no, all of my friends are these tiny little skinny girls and I'm tall and I'm big, and that's bad and that's wrong.
Speaker 3:So from the time I was 10, basically it was like change your body. Your body's not good enough. What can you do? And I've still got my diaries from that time, like year seven, year eight, and you know I have two little brothers and of course that's. They just know how to get to you. So one brother would always call me fat because he knew that was the thing that would get to me. And like I would lie.
Speaker 3:I remember being like 14 years old and lying in bed with a pair of scissors looking at my stomach, going I could just chop this off, like if I just chop this off, all my problems will be fixed. And there was actually something in the media recently about that. A I can't remember who she was, but like a sportswoman or something like that shared the same kind of story and everyone was like, oh my God, that's horrendous. And I was like, oh, that was normal, that was so normal for me. So body issues were a huge, huge, huge part of it, because, even though we didn't really have social media like I, had Pixo, where you'd create your own websites, and we had Mindspace. Eventually, just seeing the people around me who were the ones who were accepted, I suppose, yeah, and not even having social media.
Speaker 1:Like you mentioned, it was the pretty girls that got captained, so conditioning, like right, you're seeing these girls who look like they have it all put together and they're pretty and they're skinny and you're being shown that that's how you get things, love, validation, house captain, captain, like. And there still is a stigma the prettier you are, the skinnier you are, the more you'll be noticed 100%.
Speaker 3:And like obviously there was the yeah, the boys thing as well. You're going into high school and everyone's getting boyfriends and I was like, no, that's just not happening for me, basically, and I mean that kind of ended up being a bit of a thing. When I look back now at, like, my early 20s and my late teens, it was all about validation from other people, all about validation from men wearing as little, which, like I'm all about wear whatever you want, like do whatever you want with your body. I believe in body autonomy. But when I look back at myself I'm like, yeah, none of that was for me, that was all for other people. So I mean, for me, I was like, oh, long story short, and then I've just made it the longest story ever.
Speaker 1:I'm not even out of high school yet, lorinda, I'm sorry, but I think this is so relevant though, because a lot of like, especially with my journey, I haven't really delved into like inner child. It's always been like the inner teenager, because it was so fucking brutal and I think we need to talk more about that. Like, yes, we have a lot of inner child problems, but it's like the teenager us had it so fucking rough. Yeah, and that's okay. I, I love that we're talking about this, because there's gonna be a lot of people like who, who resonate with this, who go yeah, I fucking remember like for me it was like literally grabbing my stomach and just like squeezing it as hard as I can because I'm just like fuck off, like so this is so important to talk about because there's a lot of healing that needs to happen from our teenage times.
Speaker 3:And especially, like I mean on my podcast, I've spoken to so many women who've had shitty relationships with their bodies and how they've come through it, and so many people had relationships with their bodies that were caused or prompted by parents, Like I've had. So many people say, my parents put me on weight watches when I was 10, or my mom, you know, was constantly on diets and I didn't have that Like my mum's always had a pretty healthy relationship with her body, like obviously there's you know different time, like there were different maybe language around food or around bodies, but I didn't really have that kind of clear cut story, I suppose. So I think that's also something I've kind of like grappled with sometimes of like, oh, I didn't have it bad, so why did it end up bad for me? Which, yeah, yeah, is always kind of interesting trying to trace those things back and even like talking about memories to do with food.
Speaker 3:I've definitely said things around my family because obviously, like this is the work I do now and my brother's, like what are you talking about? Mom's, like what are you talking about? And like no one else in my family remembers things. And then I'm like did I make that up or yeah, is it just that it was important to me? It impacted me and that's why I remember it, which I'm pretty sure that's the latter, but yeah, the lens that we wear, and that's the same thing.
Speaker 1:Like I was very similar with that my mom. She didn't have a good relationship with her body, but she made sure that every word that she said was intentional to show us how much she she wanted us to have a good relationship. And it doesn't really matter how much your parents help you or even somebody. Somebody could give you all of the tools and you're going to see things from a different lens and my lens was I was a dance teacher and I was a dancer and dancers don't have bums and they don't have boobs and they don't have all of these things that move, and so that was. That was why it wasn't anything to do with my own like familiar conditioning. It was just that the society was like, okay, if you want to be a dancer, then those things don't move and that's like for me.
Speaker 1:I did tap and then I, as soon as I got boobs, I actually stopped doing tap dancing Cause I was like these things move because you can see in the conditioning, like fake boobs were a big. I think they're still fairly big, but not as big as back then. But like the girls who had little boobs that didn't move. Or you had people who ended up with fake boobs and they didn't move. No-transcript, because even though you may have a really great fucking childhood, you will still end up. There will be still something that hurts because it's still an experience through your lens or whatever version that is. So that's like so important to talk about. How does your family deal now, like when you talk about those things?
Speaker 3:When I first shared about like particularly so, I mean, for me it basically devolved into an eating disorder and depression and anxiety and I'd struggled with, like mental health issues. Since I was in probably year eight, I think was the first time I actually went and spoke to someone. I went and saw a psychologist because a friend made me and then I freaked out and never went back to her. But when I finally opened up about like how much I had struggled and how hard things have been, I know it was really hard for my mum, because me and like my mum is I know everyone says their mum is their best friend, my mum is my best friend, like we talk on the phone pretty much every day, and so it was hard for her because I hadn't shared, I hadn't spoken about it, I hadn't been open. There were like little times that I had, but never about the food stuff, never about the body stuff, cause that felt too real, I suppose, too big and also too shameful, because while now I think we're getting a lot better at talking about body related issues, at food-related issues, even when I was struggling with my eating disorder, that was what 2018, probably 2017 to 2019, maybe the start of 2020.
Speaker 3:I didn't know anyone really. One of my closest friends was struggling, but no one was talking about it, like I didn't see it, even on Instagram and things like that. It was, and maybe that was just I don't know, maybe that was just my algorithm, but that wasn't common to talk about. And I had binge eating disorder.
Speaker 3:No one was talking about binging, no one was sharing, and I worked in a gym, so I was very much in the like fitness space, the health space, and I was like I am the only person doing this.
Speaker 3:Like I am fully broken. I would lock myself in the toilet at work and binge packets of Oreos and freak out, being like if anyone comes in here, like I'm probably going to get fired. I wouldn't have got fired, but I was so sure that I didn't fit what I was supposed to fit, especially in that space, cause no one was talking about it to fit especially in that space, because no one was talking about it, nobody was sharing. And yet now I've had so many like members from that gym reach out seeing the work that I'm doing and they're like oh my God, yeah, I'm struggling with this too. Yeah, this is relatable. And it's like oh, okay. So most people I mean the statistic is 80% of Australian women dislike their bodies, like most of us do, yeah, and yet nobody back then felt like they were talking about it, which just perpetuates that whole entire shame cycle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I definitely think it was. For me it was like always about anorexia or bulimia, but like being genie wasn't like I never, never heard about it, it was never really a thing. And even like, when you say that statistic, you're just like, holy crap, I would love to meet that 20% to be honest with you. Hey, that's me now. Yeah, and I love that and I love that you get to contribute to that. It's just so wild that there's so many people out there who continue to hurt their body because of conditioning and because of society and because that's what they feel like they need to do. How did you, I guess, talking about that? How did you even recognize that you had an eating disorder? I didn't.
Speaker 3:I had like Googled so many times like the eating disorder, like the DSM-5 manual where it's got it all in there and read it. And my one of my best friends at the time was studying psychology and she was the same as me. Like we, I think we kind of especially fed off each other. That is such a bad accidental pun, but we kind of fed off each other in that space in a way, like we probably actually weren't super helpful being around each other. But she was like no, when we don't have an eating disorder, like we don't meet whatever criteria I can't even remember what it was. So I was like I'm fine, all I have to do is try harder. I was like that's my problem, it's that I don't have willpower, it's that I don't have control, that's why I'm binging Like I'm being so good. All of the time I was, I've done every diet under the sun, every single one. I was queen of the macro counting, like weighing every single grain of rice and like piece of lettuce that went into my mouth Couldn't eat out because I was too scared, all of those types of things. But I just thought that I was being healthy and even though all the like bad things were happening behind the scenes the binging, the like, depression, the anxiety, all of that stuff. I didn't see it as a problem. I saw the depression and anxiety as a problem but I genuinely did not realize the two were linked. Like I just thought I had to be better and then I was seeing the psychologist for depression, anxiety and then I had my I guess my like rock bottom moment with food, which was my. So, like I said, my mum and I are very close.
Speaker 3:Mum lives in Melbourne, I live in Tasmania and it was my birthday and mum sent me this beautiful gift basket of all these like Tasmanian foods and like all this stuff that I absolutely love, which was so beautiful and so special. And it was the day after my birthday and I'd received it the day before and I sat in my bed and I binged and I ate the entire basket of things and like I've never felt guilt or shame like that before, because I was like mom has done this beautiful thing for me, like it's not cheap to send gift boxes, like it's not. It was so nice, it was so special and I've just eaten it all, like how disgusting are you, how ungrateful are you. And that was the moment that like I'd had like suicidal ideation and things like that before, but that was it was I was literally sitting on my bed holding onto my doona Cause I was like I can't move.
Speaker 3:If I move, bad things will happen, like I have to stay where I am. I have to ride this out. And I sat there staring down for about three hours, not moving Cause I was like until I felt safe to be able to leave my bedroom and like see my housemate. So I went into the psychologist that week and was like so a thing happened. You know this wasn't great and she goes okay, so it sounds like food's an issue for you.
Speaker 2:And I went huh, I don't know, I don't know, no, no.
Speaker 3:I'm just trying to be healthy. I don't know, I don't know. No, no, I'm just trying to be healthy. She was like okay, let's get out the DSM-5. Let's go through. And it was like yeah. She was like yep, you very clearly meet all the categories for binge eating disorder. She's like bulimia, like more exercise bulimia. She's like you're pretty much there as well, like yeah, and that for me was like oh, but I'm just doing what I've been told to do, like I'm just doing what's healthy and like I'm just trying to be smaller because that's good. Like being skinny is good. So I'm just trying to do all the right things. And yeah, that's how I realised which. Then it was like obviously, but I genuinely couldn't see it when I was in it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know what there's sometimes like when you go and do those DSM-5s and I can't remember what the depression one is. Sometimes I'm just like these are so generic that everyone would be classed as this. But then the bonus side of this, for the people who can't see it, it is logical. Like you've literally gone and ticked all these boxes and you're like huh, and then you start to see things. I think there's a benefit of doing those checklists sometimes because, like I did one for ADHD, I was like fucking, I do not have this whatsoever.
Speaker 1:Then my psychologist was like, oh, we're finally going to talk about it because it was my own journey. And then she's like like here is the form. And then I and she actually felt like she ticked boxes and stuff and I would, I would have to answer, and I'm sitting there going, huh, maybe I do. Now it's clear as fucking day, but it's, it's so interesting. But to sit there and it's even funny that you talk about like the exercise part, because like that's what we were told. Like, even in my head I'm like that's what you're told to do, right, if you eat a big meal, then you just go and work it off, right, like it was never food as the the primary source of energy. It was like food. And how much calories do I have to burn to ensure that I can eat that?
Speaker 3:and even like the, the cognitive dissidence of. I can still remember after like one of my really bad binges, cause I was running it just horrendous. I was running this like six week weight loss challenge at the gym where I was. I created it Cause I was like everyone should be able to do what I'm doing. They'll be happy, despite the fact that I was clearly not happy. But I remember having this massive binge at the end of this challenge and then the next day going to the gym and I remember I was doing deadlifts and I could deadlift so much more than I normally could and I was like, wow, why could this be? It's like cause you had calories. Last night you weren't starving yourself. It's because you genuinely had like. Obviously no, the amount that I ate was not healthy and not good and it felt awful, but your body actually had some fuel and like again, I just couldn't match those two things up. And now it's like it's so obvious.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess, being a personal trainer. How did it feel to be, I guess, diagnosed with an eating disorder while also holding the role of being a personal trainer.
Speaker 3:So I wasn't actually a trainer. I worked in the gym. I wanted to be a trainer and then I decided I wanted to go down the food path instead. So I was working. Yeah, so I was working in sales and marketing at the gym. I was basically managing the gym, but not getting paid for managing the gym, but that's another story. I'm not still a bidder, but anyway. So I was doing the food coaching side of things when, I was not qualified.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's even another level, though, right? So how did it feel to be managing the food side of things, and even managing the marketing and the sales of a gym, with people coming into the intention to lose weight and to be healthy, while also being diagnosed with an eating disorder?
Speaker 3:I felt like such. I mean, I felt like a fraud the whole time because I was because I was doing the binging behind the scenes. And then when I found out, like got diagnosed, it was like I can't be. I also, I think, realized that it wasn't healthy for me to be in that space as well. Like I definitely felt like a fraud. But then once I started working on things and I learned about like intuitive eating was a really big turning point for me. Once I learned about that, I started researching I say researching like reading research about the non-diet approach and things kind of started opening up for me and I was like, oh, wow, okay, so everything I've been told and everything we're promoting at this gym is not actually necessarily healthy, despite the fact that this is, you know, a gym is meant to be, like the place you come to improve your health. So, it felt, I felt like a fraud.
Speaker 3:And then eventually I just felt angry and I felt like angry at myself for impacting so many people in that space negatively and like perpetuating this cycle that had got me into a really dark place, angry at the place for not changing. And then, like you know, I started making some like shifts at the gym, which was really cool. We stopped being cause it was things like I remember when we were doing meal plans, my boss was like Like I remember when we were doing meal plans, my boss was like we can't. All women should only eat 30 grams of fat a day. Yeah, I know, I see your face Like that is cooked. That is not enough to support our hormones, to support anything like that. And yet that was what we were doing. And then so eventually I was like no, I'm changing this against all the leadership and everything. I just went and changed everything because I was like this is fucked, like this is not okay.
Speaker 3:But yeah, it felt really hard and so I left because I was like this isn't a healthy space. This is kind of pulling me, because even when I was trying so hard to you know, I was putting weight back on because I got down to my lowest weight while struggling with all of those things. And like I was, I was putting weight back on because I'd got down to my lowest weight while struggling with all of those things. And like I can still remember like members commenting because I was constantly getting praise for my weight loss throughout it and then members being like oh, you've you know, put on, put on a little bit. Oh, look at you Like, oh, you've you know. Oh, your body's changed a bit, hasn't it? Like, oh, have you stopped stopped doing the program or have you stopped? Blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 3:And it just. I was like this is not the right space for me, Like none of this is right and I can't sit here and like to sell memberships. You were supposed to make people feel shit about themselves, like you were supposed to highlight that they're not where they want to be and therefore you like real pain point focused marketing, but in a really gross way, and I was like I'm not doing this anymore, like I'm not assuming that everyone who comes in who's over a size 10 wants to lose weight and point and getting them to weigh themselves as part of the like gym sales process.
Speaker 3:Like I'm just not doing that and yeah, so I got out of it and that was a huge part of my like recovery as well was getting out of that environment.
Speaker 1:I just can't believe people say shit, like sometimes I just like I have learned over the years not to be like oh you look so good, it looks like you've lost so much weight, and like I do that for people like when I have friends who who are put on weight, I'm like you, just you look happy, right, because it's not actually about the fucking weight yeah right.
Speaker 1:you can have and this is a perfect example you can have somebody who is a size eight or ten, whose body, like their organs are shutting down or their endo or their picos are flaring up because they're having less than 30 grams of fat, like where you could actually be, whatever size, and your body is functioning. I think that's the biggest thing your baseline should be am I functioning?
Speaker 3:Because if I am not functioning, there's something I need to look at which like sounds so obvious and yet I don't think that's what most people are going by. And yeah, what you just said there about like just not commenting on bodies in general, that is something I am very, very, very, very, very passionate about, even in the like quote unquote positive way. Because when those compliments stop, like if you do gain weight which statistically 95% of people regain weight they lose within two years. 99% regain within five years. So more than more than more than likely, you will regain weight if you lose it. And then when the compliments stop, then you're like shit, I'm not good enough anymore, I'm not worthy enough anymore, I'm not acceptable anymore, I'm not loved anymore. And even like.
Speaker 3:I can still remember there was a person I worked with at that gym who always, like we spoke about our body so much and would always compliment me on my body and always raise the weight loss. And then I ran into her about a year after I'd quit and she didn't compliment my body, like she didn't say anything about my body. And I spiraled because I was like she didn't say anything about my body. She always says things about my body, she always compliments my body, so she's not complimenting my body. Therefore I'm disgusting and that triggered a real backslide, which even at the time she didn't comment to my body.
Speaker 3:Good, but I just feel like we shouldn't do it in the first place because you don't know what's going on behind the scenes for someone and it doesn't actually matter the way your body looks like exactly that what you said. If someone looks happy, compliment them for that. If someone's's like, I'm really proud because I've been exercising and I have been nourishing my body. Cool, compliment for the. Compliment them for that, but not for the impact it's having on their bodies yeah, I love all of that.
Speaker 1:I guess, like with you talking about statistics of like 80% of women, and then like the regains and all of that why is it important for you to share this Like? Why do you have a podcast? Like, why do you jump on other people's podcasts? Like, why do you do what you do?
Speaker 3:I feel like it's the same answer as anyone really like, because I don't want people to have to go through what I did and yet so many people do go through what I did Like that's my story's not different. Or like unusual or special. It's completely normal. Which is cooked, that that's normal. But it is like whether it's to the level where you get diagnosed with an eating disorder or whether it's just disordered eating, unhealthy patterns, feeling shit about yourself, that is normal. Like it is so much more normal to struggle with your body and to struggle with food than it is to not. So that's basically why I do it, because if I'd had someone like me now to look at and to speak to and just to hear from, like to normalize things, I think that would have changed so much and even like a big thing now. So I'm in the biggest body I've ever been in, yet I'm also the healthiest that I've ever been.
Speaker 3:I also believe that, like, if people don't want to be healthy, you don't have to be healthy as well. Again, body autonomy While health is a great thing to aim for, if you don't want to, that's also fine. Personally, I do want to be healthy, so that is something that I focus on. But yeah, I'm in the biggest body I've ever been in and I didn't see that even when I was going into the like non-diet nutrition space and learning about body acceptance. Still, pretty much everyone I learned from was like absolute max, the size 12. And they could have bodies that like yeah they could have bodies that like like.
Speaker 3:They would post the pictures where it's like see, look I, I'm not perfect and they've got like two little stomach rolls or they're like bending over to like contort their bodies so that they've got like cellulite or something like that and like. So I still thought, if I like eat intuitively or learn to nourish my body, if I stop restricting, I'll still be skinny, I'll still get a good body, I'll still look like that. And then I put on weight and I was like, fuck, what's wrong with me? I'm gaining weight, I'm not losing weight. I thought I was supposed to like stabilize my body at a size 10. I thought that's what would happen and it didn't happen. So again it was like all this reinforcement again of like I'm broken, I'm the exception, I'm the one things don't work for. And now my weight has stabilized and it is in a lot bigger body than I would have been, or that I thought that I would be in Like if you told me back then when I was trying to recover, gemma, you might end up in a size 18 body, I would have been like, fuck that I'm not doing that.
Speaker 3:And yet it's the best thing that's ever happened to me and I can do I can do more than I could back then. Like I ran a half marathon last year, like there's no way I could have done that back then. And yeah, I think it's just I and I do get that a lot from people who message me and they're like you've made me realize like seeing someone who genuinely loves and appreciates their body and has a healthy relationship with food and has like the things that they want, like the confidence, the relationship with food, all of that stuff who is in a bigger body. They're like, oh, you've kind of made me realize that. Like it's okay, I'm not broken, I can have that and it's actually feels so much more achievable for me and more possible for me. So that's kind of, yeah, like it makes me grateful to be in a bigger body because I can be that example for people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I just love that because it's so fucking true, cause I was thinking when you mentioned like very early on to the podcast that you're like tall and it just reminds me of that fucking movie like tall girl, and it's like this is all the movie for the tall girls and I'm like, uh, not all tall girls are a twig, yeah, and I was like, what the fuck like? Because my so I'm five, three on a good day, so I'm fairly short, but my step kids like, so the girls they're they're much taller than their dad's 6'5", which means that when you're taller, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be tall and skinny like the supermodels. Yeah, so that's something that I'm like they really fucked up with that movie.
Speaker 3:because I'm like you've just now shamed again yeah, yeah, and that was a huge thing, like I'd kind of forgotten that. But for me me that was growing up it was like, oh yeah, if I'd complain about being tall, everyone's like, yeah, but the supermodels are tall. I'm like, yeah, but the supermodels are also less than half my size, like I just felt. And when I look back at me as a teenager, like even if I was fat or big or anything like that, that would have been so fine. I wasn't. I just felt like I was because I was tall and like my body structure, I suppose, is bigger than what many other people were. And yeah, there was so much shame in that.
Speaker 1:Like you can be tall but you have to be skinny yeah, I just like literally had that moment when you said it. I was just like that fucking movie because like I like I'm short and curvy, right, I've never been like I was until birth control, and then that just like really pushed all of the uh, I guess the hormones, right, like was like was picked on as a young teenager for not having boobs, and then I was picked on a year later for having boobs so big that I must be a slut. So I God, so I'm just like ugh. But when you were talking about it, all I can think of is, like one of my biggest values is flow, and I don't think you should be happy all the time and I don't think you should be like I don't know what the word is I'm looking for, but like shit flows right. Life flows, which means that your body will flow with the season that you're in Right, and like the last couple of years, my season was, I had to learn that I was actually taking care of everybody else and not my body.
Speaker 1:And then the last 12 months I've like taken care of myself and as a PT, I had the same thing. I was like I'm such a fucking fraud because I'm walking into a gym and I'm not the fittest and I'm not the leanest and I can't lift the heaviest. But gym and I'm not the fittest and I'm not the leanest and I can't lift the heaviest, but I enjoy training. I'm still fraught because during my PT I put on weight because I wasn't taking care of myself. Because I do the split shifts, I quickly run and grab a lunch, like I wasn't actually take care of myself. So then I came out of the PT world and ended up losing weight and ended up being healthier and ended up being fitter and I'm like this is weird, like I'm training less and my body feels better.
Speaker 1:I'm training. I'm not going to a gym, I'm choosing to go out into the sunshine with for a walk, I'm choosing to listen to my body and I'm like holy shit, like so in the last like 12 months it's been 14 kilos, but I know that I'm not always going to be this size in a year's time if I put on weight. I put on weight and I actually feel okay with that because of the amount of fluctuations I've had in my life and I'm like life is a constant fluctuation. I'm going to go through phases where I'm the happiest I've ever been.
Speaker 1:And then the spiral turn and it will be heavy again, because everything is a growth and I think it's so beautiful for you to stand there and be like, yeah, I've fluctuated, yeah, I'm a tall person. Yep, these body acceptance and I see it all of the time, because, even as an embodiment coach, I see the embodiment coaches who are like taller than I am and they're like goddesses and they're like they move their bodies and they're like just connect with your bodies and I'm like there is not a stretch mark on your body, like when you bend over, there's no overhang. I'm like, why?
Speaker 3:like yes, I'm understanding that everybody is beautiful, but like, just look at the audience that you're preaching to and look at yourself right and that's why I think it's so important to like and like even me, I say all the time there will be people who look at me and go it's easy for her, she's a size 18. I'm a size 28. Easy for her to say and like cool, great, exactly that. Like find the people to support you, who are where you want to be in terms of like feelings and things like that. But if there is something that doesn't gel, that person's not right for you, that's totally fine. Like, find someone who's relatable to you. I think is important because, yeah, I'm totally aware that there are people who will see me and even like I'm white, I'm cisgendered, I'm well now, I'm queer, but like I'm a, I live a pretty privileged life. Like I am white, I'm cisgendered, I'm well now, I'm queer, but like I'm a, I live a pretty privileged life Like I am not particularly marginalized and like, even on the plus size spectrum.
Speaker 3:I'm very much this I'm small fat is what we call it Like. I am not discriminated against anywhere near as much as so many other people, so it's so fine. I would never be offended if someone's like easy for you to say cool. It is easy for me to say compared to some people. So that's why I yeah, I think it's so important to like surround yourself with people who you can relate to more and like. Also why I do try and like platform other marginalized identities that I'm like I can't speak for, because then I don't want to speak for yeah, and I love that and I definitely go through very much the same.
Speaker 1:I think this year for me and privilege was a huge thing as well Like I am white, I live a pretty fucking normal life, a life that isn't like struggle and chaos anymore, and I'm like, oh my God, I like am I able to say these things because I'm so fucking privileged, like, and I think that's a beautiful conversation as well.
Speaker 1:It's just, I think it's really important with what you said of like I guess in regards to finding a coach, is, you don't want to find a coach that you've like pedestaled. You do want to find a coach that is relatable to you, and for me, I tend to find coaches I'm like cool. There's something that's like really annoying me about you, like is there something triggering that I need to look at myself? Or have I just like pedestalled you and I'm like I'm never going to get there because that's the coach you don't really want to go with? You don't want to go with the coach that you pedestalled because they will fall off the pedestal pretty quickly because they are human and that's actually nothing to do with them, but more about, like, where you put them, and so for you. It's kind of like, yeah, I'm relatable, and if you are not for me, then that's actually okay. Yeah, I love that, I love that so much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, yeah, I love that. When I learned about like the golden shadows thing with coaches, that blew my mind a bit because I was like, oh, I've totally got people that I do put on a bit of a pedestal and I'm like they're incredible to be like them and it's like okay, so how am I those things as well? That was one of my favorite things to learn.
Speaker 1:Oh, I loved it yeah, I actually think that golden shadows for me are like so much worse than like dark shadows. I'm like dark shadows, I can take so much accountability for the shit, but then, like the jealousy and all of that, I'm like anyway, um, but yeah, like what I would love to know, gemma, like what's next for you?
Speaker 3:oh, look, my mission in life. It's very small, it's very tiny, it is to change the world. Um, it is like my ultimate dream. My ultimate goal would be to, like change the way the world views bodies, like particularly like you know, I'm talking like Australia, uk, america, cause I feel like other parts of the world. You know there's different standards, but the standards that we're living by right now we're cooked and it sucks that we're literally raised Like from the time.
Speaker 3:There was a study done, I think it was by Harvard, where they put dolls in front of, like Barbie dolls in front of two-year-olds and said which one is, or like it was a group of Barbie dolls and it was from a small body size to a bigger body size and they said which one of these Barbies is lazy? Two-year-olds go for the biggest Barbie. Two-year-olds they don't come out of the womb being like big bodies are bad, like they're taught that and we're literally taught that from the time we are infants. So like I want that to change because, yeah, it's just it sucks that we're all conditioned so much to hate our bodies from the time that we're born.
Speaker 3:So like, yeah, I know it's it's a very vague goal, but I just want tiny change, like for the next, for the next generation, and like I don't want kids, but I want the kids in my life to grow up not feeling that way and that's one of my favorite things. So I love, I love working with moms because and like I don't just work with moms, but I love my mom clients because they'll come back to me and they go oh my God, gemma, like I'm doing things differently for my kids and my kids like I don't know when they'll send me a story and they'll be like oh, my child, we were having spaghetti and I had some salad, and they're like, mum, can I have some of that?
Speaker 3:Not because they feel like they should, but just cause they're like, oh, you know, I want something to. I know that'll make like nourish my body, and then I don't need to finish everything on my plate, mom, because my tummy's full now and I'm happy. Or they'll talk about how they love their body and how they love their mom's body, and like when they're raising kids who do love themselves and who do have good, like they're breaking those generational cycles, like that's what I want. That is the goal. So for me, yeah, it's kind of just keep doing what I'm doing, try and go bigger, try and reach more people, cause I feel like every time I mean it's I'm sure it's exactly the same for you. It's like you impact one person, but then that person goes and spreads it to the people around them and it's like yeah, that's how we change things.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, what's next for me? Changing the world. That's all tiny, that's all. That's all. I love that. Now, if there was a woman listening right now who is really suffering with like severe body confidence, who really doesn't like the way that she looks and it's really controlling her life, what would you say to her?
Speaker 3:It's not about your body, like, it's not about your body. And once you can kind of realize what it is about for you, that's when you can start making some changes. But the thing that is not going to fix you, the thing that's not going to make you feel better, the thing that's not going to make you feel broken anymore, is not changing your body. It's not a diet, it's not exercise, it's not plastic surgery, it's not a Zen pick Like it's none of those things. Those things are just bandaid solutions and eventually they're going to stop working. So you need to find something that actually will work and that's about what's going on inside.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that. Now I did this for another guest as well, but if you could go back to maybe like 13, 14 year old Gemma and like stand in front of her, what would you say now?
Speaker 2:Well.
Speaker 3:I think I would just say that kind of exactly that like you don't need to change, you don't need to fit yourself into a box, in whatever sense that that is, in order to be loved, in order to be good enough, in order to be worthy, like you are enough exactly as you are now. And like don't, don't lose the magic. Like, don't lose that little quirky, weird, like very loving I still loved fairies when I was 13. Like don't lose that part of you, because like that's what makes you you, and otherwise you're going to have to wait until you're 30 to find it again and you're going to feel like you've wasted the next 15 years. So please don't do that. Just keep the magic part.
Speaker 1:Oh, I'll keep the magic part. I love that. That just like hit me in the heart so hard, oh man, okay, so I don't even tell you when this episode was coming out, but probably in like two weeks. So anyone listening you're like I don't know what she's talking about. But for anyone who is wanting to, to work with you in a way that feels authentic to them, with their body confidence, what ways can we work with you?
Speaker 3:I've got a few, so the main one, like at the moment when we're recording this, I have a program that is launching, but in two weeks that will be closed door, so sorry, you can't join that, but you can send me a DM on Instagram, though, and we can talk about how we can get you in the next round or how I can support you there. It's called the confidence revolution and it's basically about everything we've talked about today, or I also do one-on-one coaching, which that's something you can join at any time. I've also got like little programs you can find if you just go on my Instagram. There's always little ways to work with me, like low cost offers and things like that, where that are a bit more self-guided.
Speaker 3:And then I've got my podcast as well, so come listen to that, but come talk to me, like I love. I know you said this yesterday, lorinda, when you were on my podcast, but I just love talking to people, I love connecting to people, I love chatting, and so just, yeah, come and talk to me, come and tell me, tell me your stories, tell me where you're at, and if I can help in any way, I will, and if I can't, I'll tell you who can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that we're always loving, like when we're like, okay, I'm going to outsource you because this person feels right for you, or hey, you're actually resonating so hard because that is me. I just love all of that. And I also think that, like, you should just go and follow Gemma to begin with, because her content will really speak to you. Like, I don't find Gemma's content to be like marketing. I find it to be like, oh, you're actually looking at me and going, I see you. So go and follow her, because there's always so, so much that she gives so much.
Speaker 1:Honestly, playfulness is a huge one and if that triggers you, then, like you know, I'm all about being triggered, probably showing you something, um, but also just the way that she holds herself and that can, that can really show you so many tools that you you have in your, your toolkit of, like, cool, right, I'm going to actually get in this fucking bikini and I'm just going to sit here, right, or I'm going to dance, or I'm going to play and I'm going to be in my body, because the thing is, those shitty boyfriends that you've had, they come and go, right, but this body that you have is always yours.
Speaker 1:It is always there with you. It's through every shitty boyfriend or girlfriend or friend, but your body is the relationship that you have that will continue throughout your entire life, and I think that is so important and it's why I really love your purpose, your tiny, itty bitty goal of just changing the world. So thank you for being here, thank you for sharing your story. I feel like there were so many different threads that were pulled. There were so many things where I'm like I feel like she's just talking to me right now and if anyone's listening to this and feels the same way, then you're more than welcome to reach out to Gemma or talk to me, because you know there's power in in speaking our story and just being seen and validated in our story and as teenagers, it was pretty fucking rough. So if you love this episode, leave a review, message Gemma, message me and we will see you next time. So thank you for coming, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1:We've absolutely loved being here with you today, and if you have enjoyed today's episode as much as we have enjoyed recording it, please leave a review or drop into our DMs. We would love to hear from you. Bye.