Unhinged + Unfiltered: Who gave them a mic?
Real women - slightly unhinged - get real about the daily chaos of motherhood, business, relationships and everything that comes from life. From airing out the dirty laundry to actually washing it, we dive into the messy, beautiful, and hilarious reality of navigating life.
Unhinged + Unfiltered: Who gave them a mic?
#52 - What IS Shadow Work And How Can In Actually Help You?
What happens when we shine light on the parts of ourselves we've been taught to hide? Shadow work invites us to reconnect with our whole selves, beyond the conditioning that has labeled certain traits as "good" or "bad."
In this milestone 52nd episode (marking our one-year podcast anniversary!), we explore the profound world of shadow work—what it is, how it transforms lives, and what actually happens in a session. Far from the ominous social media portrayal of "doing the dark work," shadow work is simply about meeting parts of yourself that conditioning has forced you to suppress.
When we're young, we learn which traits get rewarded and which get punished. Those punished traits become our "shadows"—aspects we hide away because our nervous system literally registers them as dangerous. The classic example? Being labeled "selfish" as a child for not sharing, which can lead to an adult who can't prioritize their own well-being without crushing guilt. Shadow work helps recalibrate this conditioning, showing that traits like selfishness aren't inherently bad—they're contextual. Being selfish about your health is actually essential!
Through somatic approaches that access the subconscious mind, shadow work helps locate where these feelings live in your body. Unlike affirmations or talk therapy, it addresses the deeper nervous system programming that keeps you stuck. Both of us share our raw personal journeys into shadow work—from spontaneous decision-making to profound grief and loss—revealing how this practice doesn't just change your thinking, it transforms your entire relationship with yourself.
Ready to meet your shadows? We share the various ways to work with us, from one-on-one coaching to retreats and membership communities. Book a no-pressure connection call to explore what path might be right for you—we're guides on this journey, not salespeople pushing you off a cliff!
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Expression of interest
Welcome to Unhinged and Unfiltered. Who Gave them a Mic? We're your hosts, steph and Lorinda.
Speaker 2:Warning getting triggered is not only accepted, but encouraged here. This podcast will dive deep into conversations that make you really think about life. No top level BS here.
Speaker 1:Where real women get real about the daily chaos of motherhood, business relationships and everything that comes from life. From airing out the dirty laundry to actually washing it. We dive into the messy, beautiful and hilarious reality of navigating life.
Speaker 2:Tune in for unfiltered conversations, practical tips and tools that actually work and are easily applied, and a whole lot of laughs as we navigate the ups and downs of being a woman together. Welcome back to unhinged and unfiltered. I think this is episode 52, which means that we have officially been doing this for a full year. Crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy, crazy stuff. A question that both of us get asked a lot, so we thought we'd you give it a place on the grid, if you will.
Speaker 2:The grid, the list, whatever you want to call it is what is shadow work and what do sessions look like? And I get it because before I came across it like what the fuck is your subconscious? I knew what it was, but I wouldn't have understood either until I experienced it. So we thought we would do a little bit of like what is shadow work, how we use it, how it's helped us, how it's helped our clients, and then, well, obviously, after you've heard this and gone, that sounds fantastic and I want to give it a crack. We'll also give you insight into what our separate offerings look like, what our separate sessions look like, if you are interested in that. So what is shadow work?
Speaker 1:So funny because I'm like it's not dark. I mean it can be pretty heavy because, like you see on social media, when you're scrolling, you see like these people being like you got to do the dark work, the shadow work, and I'm like so interesting that we're already putting the image in our head that shadow work is dark. What shadow work is? It is just like meeting the parts of yourself that have been suppressed. They haven't been allowed to come out. You've been conditioned that it's bad. So like you've got these traits about yourself that are bad, but just like kind of understanding, like what is actually bad and what is actually good. So it's just like going into our body. So like what steph and I do is very much more somatic shadow work. So going into our body and actually feeling what feels alive right now, and the shadow is like really born from conditioning. So like when we're born, we're born with wholeness. Like we don't understand traits, we don't understand things. Like as you grow up, you start to notice what you're getting punished for, which is where a shadow is born, and what you're getting praised for, which is where a persona starts to come out. So, like an example of this and I like to do examples because I'm much more like okay, well, how is this tangible in my life?
Speaker 1:You are a child and you have a toy that is yours, but suddenly you have a sibling and that sibling wants the toy and it goes, well, it's mine, but your parents go. You need to share. If you don't share like we all heard, the sharing is caring if you don't share, you are selfish. Like don't be selfish. Like share with your brother and you're like but it's mine. And then you get punished because you didn't share. Right, and there's, like these little things starting to build evidence in your body so, like when you're getting punished, your nervous system flares up. You're going oh, my body is now telling me this is not good to be selfish. Like, if you're selfish, that's really bad and you're getting in trouble and we don't want to do that.
Speaker 1:The thing is, and then it builds up over and over and over again and suddenly you're a parent or a mother and this is really common in my world is that if you do something for yourself or you have something that is yours and only yours, and you don't share it with anybody, you are selfish and you can't do that because, remember, selfish is bad. So then you don't have anything that is yours. You're suddenly a people pleaser some. Sometimes you don't even get your own food. So then you're now not eating healthy and you're not taking care of yourself and like, like it's this big cycle of like I can't do anything for myself, I can't have anything that is mine, because my body is telling me that that's not okay. Now, like, logically, we hear oh, make sure you put yourself first and self-care. And you know, like even the quote that Steph told me once, and now it's stuck with me to heal the mother is to heal the home. But you can't do that because your body is like screaming at you like no, it's not okay.
Speaker 2:Yes, and the piece that you need to remember as well is that in order to repress, it has to be there in the first place. So by repressing it, it means that there is a part of you that is desperate to get out, but can't so. A lot of the time I kind of explain this a little bit like a pressure cooker. So you're like no, I can't be selfish, I can't be selfish, I can't. So a lot of the time I kind of explain this a little bit like a pressure cooker. So you're like no, I can't be selfish, I can't be selfish, I can't be selfish, I can't be selfish. And then you'll go and do something like blow your rent on clothes in a way that's really unhealthy, or you're like you get, like you build a lot of resentment.
Speaker 2:I see this a lot in my clients, where they build so much resentment and they're constantly screaming at the kids, or they're constantly, you know, throwing out helpful comments to their partners like, oh, it must be nice or welcome to my life, or you know, oh, at least you can do this, or whatever. So it's coming out like that and that's effectively that piece of you that's selfish. That wants to come out of its cage and you're like stay in the fucking cage. And it's like barking like a dog. And you're like stay in the fucking cage. And it's like barking like a dog. And you're like shut up, you're not there, I'm ignoring you, you don't exist. But it's still barking at you, so you are exploding in other areas like steam coming out of the pressure cooker. We need to take the fucking lid off and look at what's in the pressure cooker and go. Yeah, sometimes I can be selfish yeah, yeah, 100.
Speaker 1:I like it manifests in different ways and this is where we see like for this particular trade as well like the martyr archetype, like I have to do everything for everybody else, and then, like you get to these moments where it does like blow up in your face, and this is like what I see a lot and what I've experienced with this one as well, is like you get to Mother's Day, and what do mothers tend to tell me on Mother's Day? That they want? They want to be left the fuck alone, and it's like their one excuse every year to be selfish and they feel guilty because they're like but I actually want to spend Mother's Day with my kids, like it's meant to be about that, but they're just so burnt out because they've been doing everything for so long that they get to Mother's Day and they're like and they build it up in their head, right, it's kind of like well, I want this, I want this, I want this not remembering that our partners can't fucking read our minds and suddenly, like you don't get everything that you want, and you're like fuck, I just want to be selfish for once. But the thing is, you actually can and like.
Speaker 1:The thing is with these shadows is like learning when they're actually like needed it's. You need to be selfish with your health. You need to be selfish with your time and your space. You need to be selfish with those things and also like the perspective change of like. Well, why is actually selfish bad? It's because it's been conditioned in us and this is why different cultures will have different shadows, inherently like. For our society, like success is like failure and success is a really big one that I see a lot the selfish, the people pleasing like it's huge in our society, where in other cultures it's probably going to be slut, yeah, or like whore, all those things, because like, using your body in a way for intimacy and sex is actually not okay. Where in our society it's a little bit more like yeah, it's still there, it's, it's very much there, but it's in other cultures it's probably going to be bigger and like, especially with austral, have like the tall poppy syndrome. So, like each culture will be different, which means that like, just because you're like, maybe you don't resonate with the selfish, but there's other shadows there.
Speaker 1:So, essentially, the best way to identify a shadow is like. My favorite question to like I ask myself and also my clients is if someone was to call you a name, any name. If you were to be called a name that was going to break your heart, what would it be? But if someone was to turn, I guess, in my face, like someone was to turn around right now and tell me that I'm not enough, that would hurt, yeah. So, like, that's the best way to identify a shadow really quickly.
Speaker 1:And also like, uh, when you're like judging somebody or like judgments are a funny one as well, because if you judge somebody, I always like to go is this showing me something about myself or is this a value of mine? Right, because I've heard people who, like are pedophiles I think we've mentioned this before right, I don't as a value of mine. So, essentially, like shadows are the traits, the traits of us, that we don't want other people to see, that we don't want to see in ourselves, that we've been taught is like, really not okay to have. Like bitch is a big one, idiot, dumb stupid Rude lazy.
Speaker 1:Failure. Yeah, like a lot of those things that come out.
Speaker 2:And then they, like those clusters of traits, will come out in archetypes, so things like your martyr archetype, which is made up of multiple shadows or multiple traits, so things like selfish, lazy, independent is probably in that one as well. For me, the one I see which is really interesting actually, is the people pleaser coming out, and that one tends to bite us in the ass when our kids get to toddler age, because we're so used to being the good girl who does all of the things and who reads the room and who does everything properly, and all of a sudden you're faced with this child who's just asked you to peel the banana, and you peel the banana and they lose their shit because the skin is no longer on the banana, and it's like your entire nervous system, even though, logically, you're like bro, you just asked me to cut the apple, I can't, no, I can't put the apple back together. Um, it is indeed cut. Now we can get another one, but that's about all we can do.
Speaker 2:But that's how people, I think, fall into that permissive or passive parenting, because they can't handle upsetting people. And with toddlers, unfortunately, to be a good parent, you're probably going to have to upset your kids quite a lot, because there's going to be things that you're going to do and say to keep them safe. There's going to be boundaries that you said that they are not going to fucking like and I think if, if you don't hear that they hate you at least once, you're probably not doing your job or you've just got like a really nice kid, I don't know yeah, I think it comes out a lot as well, like, uh, like the villain like I just really don't want to be known as somebody's villain in the story.
Speaker 1:And then, like, as an adult, I'm like, oh yeah, like whatever. And then I get teenagers and I'm like, oh my god, I'm the villain. And I think it's a different level as well, because, like, how many Disney movies did we watch with a really nice step-parent? Oh yeah, not many. So, like as a step-mom, I'm like, oh yeah, cool. Now I'm just like the evil step-mom and I don't want to be seen as an evil step-mom. So then you've got the passive and like, oh, I'll just let you walk all over me because I don't want to be the villain. So it's like kind of noticing those things recovering people, please. I was still recovering, um, is that where I used to just say, oh no, I just really love giving yeah, and I'm like but where am I like not allowing conflict? Where am I like really just like not allowing myself to use my voice? Where am I just allowing people to walk all over me? Where am I giving to the detriment of my health?
Speaker 2:the one I saw as well. That really got me good for a little while. There was I'm just teaching them that it's okay to change your mind or that it's okay to negotiate. So they would push back on something and I would go oh, you know what? Mummy's changed her mind. Yes, you can have that. Or like, oh fine, yes, fine, whatever, just have it. Because I couldn't handle the whinging, because I couldn't handle the fact that I'd done something that had upset them. And then I like I picked that up one day and I was like, oh, that's a nice excuse, isn't it? That's a beautiful excuse.
Speaker 2:So now something that I do a lot and I actually said this to one of my clients the other day, because I tend to, off the cuff, just say no a lot. I do do that because I'm like, oh, it's going to make you know, extra mess and blah, blah, blah. And here you go, a little bit of an insight into our fucking worlds. Instead of saying no straight away, I've trained myself to say maybe, because it gives me an extra little bit of time to think. And then, if I forget, or later on, I don't want to do it, I can. I've. I haven't said yes or no. I've said maybe and that does not mean either. That gives me a bit of space to stop and think, because sometimes I'll say, well, is it yes or no? Or, like my seven-year-old actually said to one of his siblings the other day, he's like when mum says maybe, it means no.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got to say my mum grew up. I'm like if my mum said maybe, I'm like, well, that's a no, no, it's no for me.
Speaker 2:For me, it's genuinely not for me. It's just something that I've had to do to stop myself from saying no and to stop myself from putting myself in those positions where then I have to go back on what I'm saying. So for me that's been really helpful, because then I can like it gives me the space to go is this actually really that big a deal? Could we maybe just do it? You know, like, do I have the capacity to do that right now, or whatever? So just yeah, things like that that will come out with the shadow.
Speaker 2:But the other thing about the shadow, like the way that I like to explain it, is it's like a scale right and let's take selfish and selfless, because you've got two sides, like they're two sides of the same coin. They're two sides of the same scale. As a general rule, you will sit somewhere on that scale right when you may be a more selfish person, like that's just kind of an something that's a little bit more represented in your trait, genetics, little personality bowl or whatever and then some people are naturally less selfish. But what shadow work does is it allows both of those to be okay in different moments and it allows us to slide that scale so that it's like, yeah, we may, at our core, be a pretty selfless person, we're happy to give, we're happy to do all of those things, but we can be selfish when we need to be.
Speaker 2:And both of those are okay, because no trait like not a single one trait is inherently good or bad. It's good or bad depending on the context. Yeah right, so it's like in like again, take selfish where if you're putting that into your personal life in terms of looking after yourself, in terms of your health, then like it's good to be selfish. But if you're putting your needs before your newborn baby and you're like, no, you just have to wait for me to feed you for half an hour while I eat my dinner probably not really the time, like that's not a good time to be selfish. So it's like allowing yourself to represent, like have those representations of those traits in areas where it's it works, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And like the thing is is, logically, you're gonna know this, like you, you're gonna be like yeah, okay, well, obviously I'm not gonna put my newborn baby last. But it's kind of like what we do with shadow work is it goes into the body to make sure that your nervous system is feeling safe to to be able to do that right, like so you feel safe to be able to go and put yourself first with your health and your needs and, like you know what I want a one weekend where I don't have my kids. And that might be really selfish, but it's need. So it's like where can I be selfish with the things that I really need and also the things that I really want? So, especially if you're being like, obviously people pleasing as a form response, which is then obviously a nervous system response that has been formed in childhood, because we have the natural like fight, flight and freeze, but then we have the form, which is a conditioned response if those three don't work. So if someone's saying they're yelling at you and you actually can't run and you know you can't fight back but you're also not allowed to freeze because they go but you need to answer me, then you're going to answer and that's going to be a foreign response. What we do is ensure that, like, your body is starting to get on board with those things, your body's starting to notice these things. Will it be changed?
Speaker 1:In my own personal journey of, like the last two years with shadow work, I'm like these things are still going to come up. It's the way that you notice them and the way that you move with them. Do I still have shadows that I have done before? I need to be like remit? Yes, because they're conditioned. This is the thing. You're never gonna be a person, that one. This is a myth buster. Right now, you'll never meet all of your shadows, right when I don't believe we're meant to.
Speaker 1:We're here to meet the shadows that are super alive for for us right now, and remembering that the nervous system doesn't know the difference between growth and safety. We're here to meet the shadows that are keeping us stuck, that are keeping us not able to move forward, and like they're here to help us with our relationships as well, because one of the biggest things that we have is belonging, like we're here to belong with the community. So those shadows like, where are they stopping me from belonging or feeling like I belong. So that's what we do. We go into the body. We meet those shadows that are alive, for right now they tend to be intertwined with other things, but we're here to create safety in our body. We're here just to meet those shadows with acceptance, and sometimes those obsessions are heavy.
Speaker 1:This is where that dark word comes in. They are heavy, but they've been conditioned, which means at one point they were already heavy that they've had to like be put into us. Our body has already had to go through a response to make that. So we're just here to like rewrite that response, to notice if we actually want to be more selfish. Where do we need to be more selfish and where do we need to be more selfless. So that's like, I guess, a general roundabout of like what is shadow work? Steph, I would love to know how you got into shadow work.
Speaker 2:You'll laugh at this one. I saw somebody on my Instagram post that they just done a shadow work course. I followed Caitlin, I booked a call and signed up. The next day I got into shadow work. I'd never heard of it before and, lucky for me, I landed on my feet with that particular one. It was similar with breathwork. Honestly, I was like, oh yeah, I could do this. I found a person who was actually in Darwin and I was like, oh my God, it's a sign from the universe. But what I found with shadow work work. So I'd done NLP before that and I just found, with that side of things, I love NLP, don't get me wrong like I love, I think it's it's a great modality. It's it's it's helpful in a lot of ways, but it is in some aspects, quite it's it's mindset work. So it's like it's reframing and stuff like that and that's perfect for some shadows. That's perfect for some parts, but you can't affirmation your way out of feeling deeply unsafe to be selfish. It just doesn't work. So for me, the acceptance stuff like it obviously came while I was doing the course and then while I was working with other coaches. I've also worked with a few shadow work coaches since then and it has helped with that Because, like, my inner bitch was really loud, like really really loud, constantly telling myself that I could be doing better.
Speaker 2:I'm like the overachiever, the productive, like that's very much me when I'm like, no, I could be doing better, I could be doing more, I should be doing more. And I'd be like you are such a lazy fucking bitch, like get off of the bed. Like you can't rest, the house is a mess, you know, the kids need this. Like you have to be the amazing wife and the business owner and have this spotless house and all. And I was running myself fucking ragged and I was constantly, constantly telling myself that I wasn't good enough, that I was doing it all wrong, that I just needed to crack the code, like basically, I had a massive issue with self-trust. I could not trust myself as far as I could throw myself.
Speaker 2:And I think, honestly, only recently, in the last month or two, I've actually gotten to the point now where I'm like I don't actually think I need these coaches. Like I've been telling my like I still love working with them because they expand me and they do see blind spots and all of those sorts of things. But I'm like I actually think I just need to lean in and trust myself a bit more and stop listening to what my brain is telling me, because you know, that's all my ego telling me, trying to keep safe. I'm like thanks, bestie. But I think it's kind of at that point where I have done enough for now. For now, because this is a for. Unfortunately, once you get on the train, you're on it for life. I'm sorry. One of my clients said that to me the other day. She's like I feel like I'm never getting off this right. I was like oh, oh babe. No, you're not Sorry, did I not mention that Once?
Speaker 1:you're on. You're on. This is not a return ticket.
Speaker 2:No, you will stay on this train. You get to see new scenery all the time though, so that's fun. But I was like I feel like I'm at the point now where I do I've seen the things that I need to see for right now to do it on my own for a little bit, and I'm sure that six months down the line I'll be like oh, I've signed up for it, you know, with another coach, Because I just I love working with them. I think it's expansive and it's fun, and I do love that side of things. But yeah, I don't know, I don't really think I answered your question.
Speaker 1:But I was like I can't have an idea.
Speaker 2:But it was like oh, I'm just gonna do this because that's another step, really spontaneous. Yeah, yeah, um, how did you get into?
Speaker 1:shadow work. Oh my god, I think this is such a I think I've told this story, I don't know on here, but like I have in the certification, but I was in like the pits, like in the absolute pits, like, oh god, I think about it now and I'm like holy shit, I don't even know how I feel. I feel like I survived, but essentially at the time and I haven't actually openly spoken about this story, um, in public, but I actually had a foster daughter and she had like severe, severe mental health, and this is when I was a PT and I thought I also had a little bit of a savior complex, which is wonderful, um, not great, but I was like I can help her like, and I didn't mean as in, like mentally, but I could give her a home because something that I definitely have in my body is like the nurturer and I'm like this kid just wants to be loved, right, this kid just really wants to be loved and I can do that, not realizing the depth of her mental health before it happened. So she actually went through, uh, she went through her first suicide attempt, obviously not successful, and I I really struggled with that because, like at the time, with the system. We weren't actually technically foster parents, like we were just a house and we weren't able to get like any funds or anything. So we were paying out of pocket for her therapy and I had to take a step back from work because with kids, they don't actually like to have them in the mental health hospital for too long because they start to mimic other kids behaviors anyway. So that meant that I was actually at home a lot with her, trying to essentially convince her to live.
Speaker 1:I was like sitting with this child, like this teenager, just trying to explain, do gratefulness and just show her that there's so many things out there and that she is so loved. And when you're with somebody who was at that point, it's extremely hard. Like you, honestly, I felt like such a dick trying to be grateful for all of those things. Um, and I was like looking at my own therapy and looking at how I can help her and the word shadow work came across and I just remember like well, what is like this? Because I had done like talk therapy and I knew bits and pieces about breath work and I knew bits and pieces about other modalities. But I was like I'm gonna look at this shadow work because I can keep seeing it come up and as well as this happening with her, I was in this weird transition with personal training where I really loved it but it lacked the depth. I loved training people and I loved more learning and I loved helping people feel better about themselves, but like it was just so external because it was about the body, like the outside of the body. So then I was just like, oh, I'll have a look at this certification, like it's the first thing that kind of comes up.
Speaker 1:And I remember like booking in the call being like I don't know, like this is not going to happen, and the call that I did with Caitlin that particular day I forgot that we were having a power outage. My foster daughter was actually at the mental hospital and I had just seen her and it was like really, really hard. So then I was also like, because I had to take a step back from work, I barely had any money. So then I'm sitting in my car because it's a freaking hot day. I don't know how it's so hot. I don't think it was like July or something and it was really hot.
Speaker 1:I'm in the car, I turn on my car so that the bluetooth would come on.
Speaker 1:I see that I have barely any fuel and I'm about to do this call and I she starts talking to me about shadow work and starts asking me questions about me. Now, the only time I had gone into a call with somebody, it would always really kind of start off with who they are and like how this is going to help me, and then they go into my stuff, where Caitlin was like this is what it like, how are you? And I'm like, oh my God, I can't answer that question because if I cry like you're, you're not going to be able to, like you're going to think I'm a lunatic, like I have to hold myself, like you're a coach kind of thing. And then she asked me I just started crying and I'm like apologizing and apologizing and apologizing, and she's like it's okay. What happens if it was okay that you were just like not okay today and I was just like I hadn't thought of it that way that's such a fucking Caitlin thing to say, I know.
Speaker 1:I know, and I just remember being like oh, I feel really seen right now, like, like, looking at it from there, I was just like no wonder I was a hot mess, but in that moment I'm like I should be able to hold myself together. Like you know, it's not me in the mental hospital, like it's not you know, and I was. I said to her I was just like I just really want to do this. Like because I looked at the curriculum multiple times, I just kept coming back to it and I was like I really want to do this and she's like okay. And I was like what? And she's like, okay, what do you need? And I was just like, well, I just can't. I literally said to her I can't pay you today. She's like, okay, do you want to pay next month? And I was like are you serious? And she's like yeah, and I'm like. Then I started crying again because I was like thank you, and she's like it's okay, like, and so yeah, that was like the start of like that was how I got into shadow work, because I was like seeing it and I'm like there's got to be something else.
Speaker 1:And then I go on a call as a hot mess and my immersion was so fucking rough, essentially with the certification that Steph and I did you, you get like your coursework and you start doing some coursework and then you have to go through an immersion weekend which is like in a retreat, online and it's.
Speaker 1:It can be really like she's changed it since then, but like I just remember feeling it was really heavy because when I did my immersion, my foster daughter at the time had actually gone through her second attempt and that was brutal because that attempt was actually at home and from there I had kind of trauma, bonded really hard with her and I was just like I don't know how I'm going to do it. I barely fucking survived the first attempt and my partner it was just like I love you, but I'm going to be on the pulse of pain here Because, once again, we still weren't actually getting any funds and, because of the legalities of everything, they couldn't actually provide more support. Because I said to them you need to help me, like you need to help me because I can't sit here for another month trying to convince a child to live.
Speaker 1:Like I need help. And they were just like we can't and Matt's like if you can't help us, we need to make sure that she gets the help, and the way that she can do that is by not living with us, because if she was to go into the system then they would be able to provide more support. So then like it was really quick, like attempt. Then like she left and then she wasn't coming back because she was in that rebelling phase, and like she couldn't rebel at our house because we had boundaries, so she didn't come back. And so then I was grieving her and then, like a week after that happened, my pop passed away and I was just like oh my god, but my immersion was really brutal because I was just moving through so much pain.
Speaker 1:And then, coming out of the immersion, I was just like no, no, I can't go back to PT after this. Like there's no way that you could go through something like that with shadow work, see so much more of yourself, and like people really forget the power of just being able to see it. Like, yes, we have that cognitive awareness, but when your body sees something and it finally feels validated and it finally is like you're finally looking at me. I've been screaming at you for so long to see this. And, like after that weekend I was like I can't go back. So like I did my immersion and then, like literally four days after my immersion, I burnt down my business. I literally was just like because I got on a phone call with Caitlin, because I ended up doing something else with her after that. That wasn't until a few months later. But when I got on the call, she's like what are you doing? And I was like I don't know, what am I doing?
Speaker 2:It and.
Speaker 1:I was like I don't know what am I doing. It's like you did your immersion, like because I had done my assessments really quickly. She's just like you just need to get your assessments in and you can start going with clients. She's like I don't like what are you waiting for? And I was like I don't know what am I waiting for. And I, yeah, just signed up my first client, like the day after I burnt my business down.
Speaker 1:I haven't looked back because I think that when you come into this kind of work and I understand like not, shadow work is not for everybody, but like for us especially like you're kind of like oh, it's like a missing piece.
Speaker 1:You're kind of like that makes sense, like seeing it from that lens just makes sense, which is like how I got into it. Because I was just like this just makes sense. Like two years on, I'm like I actually really love a lot of the modalities, but I think my foundation is shadow work, because you can just pull from so many different areas and, like I did breath work after, like I did breath work before shadow work, to be honest, and I was just like, yeah, like it's great, but like shadow work had that, that foundation and I've done a breath work afterwards as well and it just like I've noticed that shadow work's being pulled in so many modalities, because I don't know about you with your breath work, but I had shadow work in my breath work, yes, and like they were teaching me those things and I'm like, oh, like, so this is a very foundational skill to have, like it's just seeing parts of yourself that you're trying to hide. Yeah, so that's my very long-winded way of how I got into shadow work. Oh, I love it.
Speaker 2:I think like probably helpful to first like talk about how it's helped our clients, but then we'll also go through like what, what actually happens during a shadow work session? Cause it's a question I get asked constantly and I'm like I don't. I find it really difficult to explain what I do. It depends on the person who's asking. Sometimes I'll just say like oh, I'm like a life coach, but different. Or like, oh, I just like I'm a therapist. Or I answer it so differently depending on but like when somebody messages me and like, hey, like I'm really interested, but what? Like can you explain to me what you do? I'm like there are not enough characters in an Instagram message to explain to you what I do. Like I just struggle so hard to explain how, like what, what it is and what it can do for you.
Speaker 2:I think, for for my clients, like I've got clients from all different walks of life, but some of the ones that it's helped the most with I think it really helps people who did have like rough upbringings. It helps people who didn't, because I I put myself in that category, like I had quite a good childhood, but the people who were really told you're a piece of shit, you know like you're not good enough. You need to be better, you need to do this. You like the parents who wanted them in a box, yeah, and were very, very vocal about it, so it really helps them to like. I think that the most rewarding thing that can happen in a session is when somebody looks at you and they're like do you mean I'm not broken?
Speaker 1:no, like you're not a fucking yo-yo yeah, I think that's actually a really big thing with a lot of like people in my world is like from the retreat as well, is like, realize, like shadow work is actually not about fixing you, because the thing is you're not actually broken right and like I like, we have the broken shadow.
Speaker 1:Don't get me wrong, I take my with me a lot, but it's not like there's nothing to fix. It's here to be witnessed, it's here to be felt, it's here to be experienced because you haven't been allowed to do that so like, and it's so funny because, even like people who think they have a really good upbringing, I can guarantee you there's going to be things from your childhood that are so fucking heavy, right, and obviously like, when we talk from like people who have a good childhood, we're talking about like, obviously, physical abuse and emotional abuse and all of those things which should be the bare fucking minimum, by the way, for any child, realistically. But it's even like things of like, like, in my eyes, I also had a really great fucking childhood. But then there's the underlying things.
Speaker 1:Right, I was the eldest child yeah twins, which made me feel a little lonely sometimes, and then I have my lonely shadow.
Speaker 1:Right, it's those things that we don't actually realize are so powerful. Right, because for me in my life I always felt like and I've said this to Steph before I feel like sometimes I'm the middle number on a die, so like you've got the number five because I'm a family of five and I actually have five in my family. So like I'm like you've got the number five and you've got my mum and dad at the top and my sisters are down the bottom. They're like little dots down the bottom, but I'm the middle dot. And what happens with the middle dot if you roll a four? So look at there. So like that's how I felt and I like can see how that's manifested in my life of being like, yeah, but I'm here as a placeholder, right, I'm here as that person that will just maneuver, but however I need to, which then means I become a chameleon in relationships do you find that you also bounce between sorry, this is going to turn into a fucking coaching session.
Speaker 2:Wonderful, when people say something, something, this is fascinating, tell me more.
Speaker 1:Do you find that you bounce between like trying really, really hard to belong and then being like fuck you, I don't care yeah, I think my early 20s was very much like oh sorry, from like 18 through to probably like 21, of like fuck you, I don't care, so I would do what I want to like.
Speaker 1:Then, like meeting Matt, I was just like, but I really want to belong yeah like the fuck you, I don't care, is actually saying I don't feel like I'm gonna fit in. Yeah, 100%, I show that I care because I don't actually think it's gonna happen. Like there's a belief here that, no matter what I do, I'm not actually gonna belong. So I'm gonna put on the persona that I don't care. Yeah, obviously have the other side of like becoming so chameleon that you're like I want to belong, no matter what I have to do. So like they're both inherently the same but they're just showing up in different ways.
Speaker 1:Yes, and like in many instances, like I think in my family life and in my friend's life, I tend to like I can notice the chameleon. But the other thing is having a mask is not a bad thing because it means that, like in some situations I do. It's funny, actually, one of my friends now who did the certification, so I was her PT and then she did the certification and I just ran an event with her. So we have gotten closer and I went to her baby shower and this is so fucking funny.
Speaker 1:I can deal with people being angry. I can deal with people being angry. I can deal with people vomiting because they're crying so much. You got boogers coming out of your nose. I'm good, I can deal with those emotions.
Speaker 1:If you're awkward with me, I'm going to be more awkward because I'm going to win, because that feels really uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:So like she sees me as this person, like in the business of, like, oh, I show up and I can talk confidently and I can lead a call in the certification, like she's like, yeah, like you just are so confident.
Speaker 1:Then I go to her baby shower, where I know two people, and she tells me oh, this is an intimate baby shower, I don't know about you 21 people is not intimate and I am awkward. Okay, I am so awkward because I can feel the awkward energy of the room, but the thing is, I'm one of those people as well as I will be an extrovert with introverts, but an introvert with extroverts there's some big personalities here. So now I'm the awkward introvert and that mask mask of, like, okay, I need to, you know, talk, I need to do those things because I feel really awkward and my whole body is like all I want to do is find a little corner. But sometimes it's actually really good to have those masks right. Like I have my coaching mask because I'm like that's the person I am for this. So, like, when we talk about like having to wear a mask and being a chameleon, like, you need to remember those are the situations that actually is really helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. I think there's this whole thing about like being authentic and blah, blah, blah, and sometimes being authentic is not actually showing all of your fucking cards. Like you. You don't actually owe anybody showing them exactly who you are, especially if you feel like you're going to get hurt, like that. That's, our brain's job is to keep us safe. So if you're in a situation where it's like oh, if I, you know, kind of crack the jokes that I would normally crack, that might not go down super well. So I'm just going to shut the fuck up and I'm just going to hang out over here in my corner and just like listen and go oh yeah, that's really interesting. Like, oh yeah, that must be so, that must be so hard. Like tell me more, that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I also think that this is, this is one of my things. When people you know that question in personal development that you get asked of like who are you? Right, and you're allowed to say your roles and responsibilities, but the thing is I always say mine first, I always go I'm Lorinda, but I'm gonna share with you my roles and responsibilities because that's gonna give you an understanding of who I am. So then I'll be like I'm a mom, I'm a stepmom, I'm a partner, I'm a business owner, I'm a coach, right, what? I'm a nurturer, obviously. I'm a learner, I'm a lover, I'm so many things, but I'm so many things and it brings more depth to my roles. So when people like, who are you at your core? And I'm like but I am a mom because I am a nurturer.
Speaker 1:And I'm a stepmom, because I don't believe that blood just makes you a mother, right. And I'm a partner, which means that I'm also a lover, I'm also a carer, I'm also all of these things. Then I'm a coach, which means that I'm going to be learning a lot, right, and I like to help people. So then I'm a helper, I'm a caretaker again right. I'm a space holder. So, like when somebody asks that question, I'm like let me tell you my roles and responsibilities, because that's going to give you a really good idea straight away of who I am. Yeah, every single role has a different persona, because I cannot show up in my relationship as a coach or otherwise. I'd be single.
Speaker 2:I do it sometimes and I get stuck.
Speaker 1:I'm like run mask. Coach language yeah, but then my kids don't need. They need the coach sometimes, but they need it with the nurture lens yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really good way to look at it, where it's like, you know, at my core, you know I'm a, I'm a coach, like I, yeah, I ask the questions cause I want to understand, because I care about people and I'd love to know how their brains tick and all of that sort of stuff, like curious. But with my partner I ask it differently than what I would in a container. Or with my kids I ask a question differently than I would with you. Like it depends on what, like what. The intention is right because, like in, like in my containers with my coaching, like I'm trying to get to the fucking bottom of what's going on here. Yeah, like I'm not worried about hurting your feelings because that's not my intention. My intention is to shine the light on things that you can't see, and sometimes that is going to be asking really fucking uncomfortable questions. Like I get told to fuck off a lot and I'm like I'm okay with that, that's fine, I'm happy to be the villain in your story.
Speaker 1:That's what you did and I think that's just the best part of shadow work, though, because the thing like the, like you said before, there's two sides of the coin, right like whereabouts on the scale. Do we need to be in your coaching containers? The coach is going to be more there, but the nurturer is still there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like I care about you a lot, but I'm also going to ask the question still because I care about you and it's a different type of caring. Like you need something different from me than my kids where they've fallen over and scraped their knee and they just need a cuddle. That's all that they need. They just need me to, you know, to be there and to get them a fucking band-aid and to clean it up. But with you I'm trying to rip the fucking band-aid off because we want to see what is underneath this. Yeah, like, so it's.
Speaker 2:We still, like, at our core, we still really care and we are nurturers. But it shows up differently depending on what the intention is and what's needed of us. So that chameleon thing is super fucking helpful when you've got multiple different hats to wear and multiple different areas to show up in. Like, yeah, if you're showing up in your friendships like a mother or in your relationship like a mother not ideal, not great. So, like the whole being authentic thing, I am still being authentic by being a different person in these different spaces. At my core I'm still the same. I still swear a lot and I still, you know, really like I love hard and all of the things I still like. I'm a very reactive person as a general rule but, like I still really care about you. It's just in different, different forms and based off of what they need, and it's like that piece with the whole, with the mask thing and about being what people need.
Speaker 1:Like we're very, very perceptive, both of us to the point of a fucking fault, yeah, and it's like so interesting though, because like something that's coming up in my head as you're talking about this is that, I don't know, I think you may work with some of your friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So I actually had this question ages ago, so I was like, oh, I wouldn't be able to work with you because we're friends and I'm like, well, that's gonna depend on on you, really right, and like also me, like there are some friends where I'm like I love you so much that I would refer you on um. But I actually have like one of my like my best friends is actually coming to my next retreat and we've worked together before because we can, because we know that when we're in the container, I come with the coach lens. When we're outside of the container, I'm your friend, I'm like your best friend and like, yes, in my some of my friends and this is the other thing friendships are like they're so different because I know that some people come to me because they want the blunt. My sister will ring me when she wants the blunt. I'm like, are you asking me as friend or sister?
Speaker 1:sister, I might be nice your friend, I'm gonna tell you that's a load of shit and that's the same thing. Right, like, when they come into my containers as coach, I'm like this is this is the thing. Right, like I'm I'm not gonna hold your hand with some of this stuff and then sometimes I will, because that's also part of coaching, but that's like where we can go. Yeah, like, have that discernment of like this is the mask I need to wear. This is like what the persona that I need to have with you right now, because this is the container. So, like, I would just see if your friend is a coach being like could I actually work with them?
Speaker 2:and if you can't, that's actually okay, oh so fine, honestly, yeah, I do. I definitely have friends who, no, thank you, love you, but it's a no from me. But I do have a few close friends who are in my containers, um, and like. The boundaries are very firm in those situations where it's like if you have a question, where you want to be coached, you come into into whatsapp, do not text me, don't message me, don't call me, like, don't ask me when we're in person. If that's not like that, in those areas I'm your friend and in those areas I will validate you and tell you that your husband is just being an asshole, or that you are a phenomenal mom, or that you should tell that person to fuck off, or whatever. In coach land, I'm gonna sit there and go. Yeah, cool, how did you contribute to that? Why did that happen? Because it takes two to tango and there's three sides to every story yours, theirs and what actually happened yeah so it's like, yeah, those different areas.
Speaker 2:I feel like we've kind of gone off on a bit of a segue here, but, um, that that happens, I feel like people follow your question. I know I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:They listen to us for the chaos, so you never know what you're going to get in these podcasts, um you know what's funny, though this actually does segue perfect, because what we've just said is part of what the session is right. Yeah, they're actually like, let's go into sessions. Yeah, if you're in a one-to-one container, like a lot of people, can you just like break it down for me? And I'm like, but I can't right because one can. One container is so individualized to that person. The only thing that I have structured is that for my container I have a week zero call and a week one call from week one.
Speaker 1:It is then fortnightly. The reason that I have a week zero is because, uh, it's just something that I've always done, but I like to have that connection with them right, because the first thing in a container is that I'm actually not going to take you through a process that's going to be like really heavy to begin with because you haven't built that safety with me as a coach and the next thing you need to do is build safety in your body. So in a week one, a week zero, call with me. There's connection and there's also a embodiment. What that looks like is like a visualization of anchoring into your body, because a lot of people don't realize how disconnected they are to their body. When you go through processes, you will need to have an anchor point to come back. So the best thing about this is that you're actually educating your body.
Speaker 1:When to come back into regulation for safety so we're titrating In processes you will go into a dysregulated state. That's meant to happen. You are allowed to be dysregulated, but it's knowing how can I hold this dysregulation and make more of myself and when to titrate back into safety. So like that's the only structured part of like. You must have safety first. Now, obviously, safety will be built throughout the container. I'm not saying that you have to be 100% safe with me to express those things. I've had clients who've been working with me for six months and then they tell me something that they're like it's been on my heart and I didn't feel like I could tell you because they're not actually safe with themselves either one-to-one. So so individualized.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. And see, like for me, my initial call generally is like an intake I call it my data mining call where I'm like tell me all about you. And I actually had a client come back to me a little while ago she's one of my. She was three months, she's just signed on for another three. And she said to me afterwards she was like, maybe it's just because I'm used to talk therapy, but I feel like you didn't really want to know all about my childhood. And I was like, yeah, because it's not actually important. In some ways I will get to what I mean in a minute. But I was like I don't need to know every single little individual thing that happened to make you you. Because here's the thing about what we do. That is different to talk therapy, right? Is that?
Speaker 2:With talk therapy, you're in your conscious mind, so it's all the things that you know, that you know. Can you get to the things that you didn't know, that you know? Yes, if we ask the right questions and all of the things. However, what we do is we work with your subconscious mind. What we do is we work with your subconscious mind. So we will like, during a session, we will put you into a state of hypnosis or like a meditative state, and then we will lead you into a space. We'll go searching for a particular part of you and then we will ask it questions. So you telling me that the reason that you have to have your house spotless is because, like, your mum was a massive, neat freak and she, like you know, drilled that into you, that's, that's phenomenal Cool, great, great insight, love that.
Speaker 2:But in my experience what tends to happen is it will go on and in in on a particular shadow, so say, we're going with selfish and you tell me it's because, like your mom used to like was a massive martyr and put everybody before herself and all of the things. And we go into that. And it's actually not about your mother at all. It was actually about your fourth grade best friend telling you that because you hadn't brought her a fucking k time in your lunch or in her lunch, that that made you a shitty friend and then she didn't want to be friends with you anymore. And it was that one moment that you have repressed. It is sitting in your subconscious. Your conscious mind isn't aware of it because it was so fucking painful that it it bore a shadow where you learned from that one specific experience, where your mum had said it to you a hundred times already don't be selfish, you need to share, blah, blah, blah. And you were like, yeah, fuck off. But that one moment was what actually created that shadow. And so it's like, when she said this to me, I was like what you know is probably not what's going on. And she was like, well, oh, that's really interesting. Like I've never, I've never had a shrink or not a shrink, but like I've never she'd been through extensive talk therapy. She's like I've never had somebody say that. And I'm like, yeah, like it's interesting and tell me, but I don't need to know every single facet in order to get you where we want to go.
Speaker 2:So, with like, with those sessions, because you are in a meditative state, it allows us to access the subconscious, aka the shit that you've got locked up way in the back. Because you like it's the dog in the back that's barking, that you're ignoring and you're going it's not there, it's not there, it's not there. Yes, it is. We go looking for the barking dog and it's like what? Like, what memories are tied to that? What beliefs are tied to that? What emotion is tied to that that is still in your body, like when we say you know, looking for the selfish shadow.
Speaker 2:Where do you feel that in your body? Where does it live? Does it live in your chest? Does it make it really tight? Does it live in your chest? Does it make it really tight? Does it live in your head, makes it really full? Does it live in your belly and gives you butterflies like where is it? Yeah, where's it at?
Speaker 2:And then we want to really connect in with that feeling and we want to ask it questions. We want to get to know it, like hey, bitch, haven't seen you in a while. What's been going on? What are you doing? What are you doing in here? What behaviors are you responsible for right now? How are you keeping me safe? What do you think you have to do? Like, how can we stop? Because this is, you know, how can we get you represented a little bit better? Yeah Is effectively how we. It's how we operate.
Speaker 2:So with the yeah, like all the things that you, that you know or you think you know, it's very surface level. I kind of explain it like so I use breath work with my shadow, work quite a lot of the time. At the moment it's like my, my new thing, which I'm loving. It's effectively I I explain it like throwing a stick of dynamite into the water because we don't know what fish are in there. We've got no idea what fish are in there. You can see like maybe a meter under the water and that's it, but the thing goes 20 meters down. So we're throwing a stick of dynamite into the water and we see what fish come up and we go huh, I didn't know, there were fucking salmon in here, and the salmon is you know the fact that you think that in order to need to rest, it means that you have to have been insanely productive and you have to have done 10 hours straight of cleaning or studying or working or whatever before you're allowed to rest.
Speaker 2:I don't fucking know. That was it and that comes from. Like that voice is not even mine. It's actually dad's voice telling me that you don't get anywhere unless you work hard. And you're like, I don't even believe that, but that belief is in your fucking subconscious running the show yeah, it's just so wild what comes up.
Speaker 1:And I think the other thing that you mentioned is like, sometimes, like, especially as you go on your journey, you will be able to pull out the patterns, right. I feel like, oh, I know why I do this. Because of this, this and this, because I felt like I've seen this before, you can see it. And then the next thing that we do is help you feel it, help you go feel it because obviously, like it's stored in our body because it hasn't been finished Right, so it's stored in our body because it hasn't been finished right, so it's not, it's still there. You kind of like there's a belief here, and a good one I'm just going to be really transparent is like, because matt and I separated right, we separated for two years. I still have a lot of beliefs around that that like maybe that could happen again. Now this is not from actual matt, right, god bless his soul, sometimes could also, but it's still in my body because I didn't get to feel like I experienced that fully, and what I mean by that is I went through a lot of grief, but I didn't have time to grieve because I had a child. I didn't have time to grieve because it was also freaking COVID, right. So then, like, I still have grief, that is like stored in my body right now and I'm like, okay, well, I'm aware of it, like I know that there's grief from that because it was really hard, but I didn't actually have the space or the safety to feel that and that actually happens a lot as well. You're like, yeah, I can. I know that I was angry about this situation, I know that I was sad about this situation. I couldn't do anything about it because I can't feel this. And so then we go into that disassociation, that functional freeze that a lot of women are having right now and aware of. But how do you move out of that? Hello, shadow work. You come to us, you may know what it is, but you actually need a space to be able to fully experience that or even just touch on that.
Speaker 1:So that's the next thing that we do in our sessions is through embodiment. This could look like emotional releases, right, and it could be looking through emotional releases in many different ways. It is going into the belief system, it is going into those stored emotions and going how can I just meet this a little bit more in a way that feels safe. Now, what a lot of people don't realize that they have is they want to be seen in that emotion. Right, because I can very aware that I could do a lot of my own emotional releases. But there is this piece of me that I'm like I want to be witnessed in this. I want to know that this is validated, that I'm not having to experience it by myself, because I'm having to experience a lot of things by myself.
Speaker 1:So a lot of people come to coaches because they're like I know that this is happening, but I don't know how to move through it, because I also want to be seen in how I move through it. So that's also part of like the one-on-one experience, of like having somebody to be able to hold you in that space, because a lot of people feel like if they enter the emotion and they open the can of worms, they'll never, never be able to shut it again. That's a belief. So I think like to answer like what, what do we actually do? It's like we're space holders.
Speaker 1:So you come into the session and you tend to I have like each client once again so individual, but sometimes I'm like we're gonna set 10 minutes to talk about things, because I know that there's something here, right, because then you don't want to have the whole session of just talking in the other instance. There are many sessions that I have where it's just talking, because I have a lot of clients that come to me who have a lot of storage, like a lot of blockage in their throats and that stops them from talking. And I have a lot of women who feel really lonely in their lives and don't feel like they can actually lean on anybody or that other people are going through a lot of things and they don't want to put that on them. So then they come to me and we get to talk and then after that they're like, oh yeah, I just really needed to get that out. I didn't realize how much I had been holding on to. And then the more that you talk, the more that you can start to feel things.
Speaker 1:Maybe there's an emotional release, like it doesn't actually have to be a set structured process for it to be a process, for it to be seen and witnessed, and then you can go into a process.
Speaker 1:I, stephanie, just fly off the handle sometimes, like we just oh yeah, we don't have a lot of things that we do that are planned, unless it's like our memberships or programs and stuff like that, and even then we're very intuitive because we're like what we think. Once again, even our conscious mind comes into play. What we think is going to happen may not actually be what's needed. And we also don't see what our clients are going through every single day. Like we can get a general idea through messages and voice notes and in their instagram stories because we follow all of our clients and stuff like that, but like the actual depth behind it we don't see. So the sessions when you come in is just like really about what you need in this moment, what's the most alive for you and also what is safe to feel right, because what's most alive you sometimes you can't touch it straight away yeah, for sure I've got.
Speaker 2:I've got a few clients with really gnarly abandonment wounds, like really now, I've got a few clients with really gnarly abandonment wounds, like really gnarly. I've got one in particular, like that girl went through the fucking ringer as a kid and the first call like in my data mining call we were talking about things and I spotted an abandonment wound straight away. I was like oh, yeah, that's there. And she was like I don't want to touch it. I was like that's okay, no dramas, it took us four months before she was like okay. I was like you know, how do we feel about? Uh, about trying your abandonment wound today? And she's like, okay, let's do it. I was like, okay, cool, let's do it.
Speaker 2:And it was the first session where she has stopped deflecting with humor whenever I touched on something that was slightly painful, where she would deflect or she would go oh yeah, no, I know that that's there, but you know, but like she would try and logic it away, she actually threw herself straight in, like proper, into that session and had a massive, massive, big breakthrough the first one in four months. Yeah, it took us all like it took us a while to get there, and sometimes that's how it goes, like I've had people, I've had people come into sessions with me. It's been their first session and they've just they've been maybe the type of person who were taught that they could trust people and they can come in and they can just bare their soul and they can get it all out. I had one a few weeks ago. She's like I really didn't want this to be the case, but you've changed my life in one session.
Speaker 2:I'm like, okay, results may fucking vary, like that's not normal, but she was just able to dig into that, whereas then this other person who had been taught, you know, like that it wasn't safe to feel feelings, it wasn't safe to be herself, it wasn't safe to be herself, it wasn't safe to trust people. It took her a lot longer to get there and that was fine and it was beautiful and I wasn't gonna fucking push her until it got to the point where I was like, okay, girl, we've, like we've been through some of the you know, some of the top level stuff. Now you know how this works. Like, how do we feel about starting to dig a little bit deeper? And sometimes it will take us two or three sessions to get through something like that, where we'll try once and the body will be like, nah, absolutely fucking not, they'll dissociate, they'll still like come back into their conscious mind and start saying things like I don't know, I think or maybe it's and and I'm like, yeah, okay, out of the fucking process.
Speaker 1:I think that's also like a lot of people like.
Speaker 1:But I need a breakthrough and I'm like you don't realize that your body shutting down is actually a huge breakthrough, especially if you've been a people pleaser, especially if you haven't been able to say no Like I went through this as well. I really struggled with the word no for a really long time and then this year in the advanced certification, I went through something. I went through a process and I was just like nope, nope. And it was like one of the first times that I had said no in a process, because I was just like I actually were like I'm pretty good at going through things and like I had this thing of like am I actually going to go through this process? Because I feel like I need to go through the process, because that's what a good person like, that's what a good girl obviously the archetype of the good girl does, or can I actually just say fucking no today and that's like something as well, like I've been like yeah, if she had said no, you would be like cool.
Speaker 2:I'm just curious like why and this is where we use our discernment as coaches to be like is this a time to invite more depth, or is this time just to witness what's happening right now, and so that's really beautiful yeah, like some of my, some of my clients, especially the ones who have been with me for a lot longer, I will push them a lot harder than I will brand new clients where I'm like because I know that they can do it, and I'll be like, okay, like they'll be like, oh yeah, and I'm like, okay, why? And're like, I can't really give you a reason. I just don't want to and I'm like and I'll be like fine, let's do it Okay. But if that's a new, yeah, if that's a new client that you're still establishing safety with, absolutely fucking not, I don't know you well enough to push you, but that's kind of like.
Speaker 2:That's the beautiful benefit of long-term coaching as well is that my clients will drop in with things, because something that I fucking froth is they'll come in with a situation and I'll go this is what's happening in your brain, like the psychology behind it, and they're like like, even just knowing that sometimes like, oh, so this is normal that I do that. Yeah, it makes perfect, fucking sense from a safety perspective. That's yeah, that makes absolute sense that you're doing that. And they're like oh, so I'm not just shits. No, your subconscious is doing what it's supposed to do. That's its job, um, but yeah, because we know you so well, it's the same with with us we'll be having conversations and lorinda will say something. I'm like that's interesting and she'll fucking roll her eyes.
Speaker 2:She's like let's not thanks my, we always, we always ask. But like, do you mind if I ask it, like can I ask a question about that?
Speaker 1:and I'm like, no, I'm gonna ask it anyway, and then you can decide if you want to answer or not I know, I feel like the moment I'm just like getting questions left, right and center and I'm like, oh goodness, can we not? I like avoiding. I definitely have a little bit of an avoid, and this is what I realized, uh, the last couple weeks. I'm like in relationships I have such an anxious attachment, but in a relationship to myself, I am avoiding as fuck because that feels nice.
Speaker 1:Let's be honest, like um, but yeah, that's really funny, but I guess, like moving from the session, like Steph, how can people currently work with you in this season?
Speaker 2:so I have got my one-off sessions. They are generally a I'm I'm preferring to mix the shadow work and the breath work, so they're called shadow breath sessions. That's probably my like. I'm loving those at thering to mix the shadow work and the breath work, so they're called shadow breath sessions. That's probably my like. I'm loving those at the moment. They're so much fun.
Speaker 2:So you've got that option. You've obviously got my long-term coaching, which is offered in three, six or 12 month containers. And then I've got my group program, the empowered mom method, which is currently undergoing some changes again, because I'm just constantly fiddling with that space, because I don't believe in just like doing something and then leaving it, like I'll always be tinkering with that, I think, and just working out what's going to work best. So it is really likely, by the time this comes out, I probably will have announced this, so you know may as well chuck it in there that this will be moving from like you can come in at any time to the doors open and close. So you come in and we go six months with the same group of people and then it stops and you know, yeah, yeah. So it is likely that that will be what is happening by the time this episode is aired. But yeah, and what about you? What are your options at the moment?
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness. Okay, so I just closed the doors on Devoted, which is going to be my actual signature somatic shadow work program, cause I've just been like in it's always refinement, like you said, like I've just been like trying to figure out like what is me, what's going to be a program that people can come into and just like really meet more of themselves without having to go on retreats without having to leave their children without having to like, completely like, uproot their life because they're just not at that stage.
Speaker 1:So, obviously, devoted will be my signature program. There is good, by the time this airs it's probably going to be a wait list because, like I mentioned, it is my signature, um, and that's just a six-week program. Then I also have my one-to ones and the options. There are three to six months with, like, if you sign up, then you are first to then go. Yeah, I want to extend. Right, just because your container is coming to the end doesn't mean that, like, you don't have the option to continue. So I have actually like three clients who, um, or three or four clients who've actually signed on for, like you know, three or six months, and now one of them is about to finish up with me and she's been with me for 18 months, which is just wild. So those options are there as well, and then I mean that's the closest you can get to me without living with me. That's like the way I like to say it.
Speaker 2:I don't live with you, but you can do one-on-one. You're not quite as close as Steph, but you're pretty close.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:And then I have my membership, which is, by the time this airs, is also going to be changed. At the moment it's called the Shadowhaven membership. It's something that I started in December last year and I'm like I've never run a membership, like let's give it a go. But it is going to be changing, it will be called the Reclamation and it's still going to be a very interesting structure of like one call, one educational call a month and one embodiment one call, one educational call a month and one embodiment. I do believe that education is really good for those people wanting to step into personal development as well as the embodiment side of things. Now, the fun thing about my membership and steph is also in it, um, as a guest coach. So part of the reason I have my membership is that I wanted to try and bridge some form of gap, because at the moment there's like high ticket things and you're like, am I? I going to have to sell my fucking left leg to be able to afford this? And I'm like but I didn't want that.
Speaker 1:I also wanted people to see that I can collaborate with coaches, because if you don't work with me, I want you to still work on yourself. I still want you to go and find somebody that's going to fit you, because I don't believe I can work with everybody. I also don't have enough time. So then that's going to fit you, because I don't believe I can work with everybody, I also don't have enough time, um, so then I'm like, okay, well, instead of you spending so much money and googling and trying to research, why wouldn't I bring in people that I trust to show you their different modalities, to show you how they show up, to show you that it's okay to go and work with other people, because I've had people who have worked with me and then jumped to another coach and are doing great right. It doesn't mean that I'm bad, just means that it was your part of your journey. In the same instance, I've had people go from one coach to me and I want people to see that that's okay. I've worked with heaps of coaches as well.
Speaker 1:That membership will be relaunching and fun fact in August it's actually totally free. So in August, steph will be coming on as a guest coach, as well as two other guest coaches, so we're having an extra two calls that month and that's totally free. So if you're wanting to give that a go, you can come in in August. There's no like. You have to sign up if you join for free. If you don't want it afterwards, that's okay. I just wanted to give you the option. And then, obviously, my baby, my, my beautiful, my beautiful baby is my surrender retreats.
Speaker 1:I love my retreats they are, yeah, honestly, just like the best. I love everything else, but like being in person with my people, like it's just so beautiful. So we have an October retreat and the thing is I only run these twice a year and I only take six. So if you're after a retreat that doesn't have like 10, 12, 15, 20 people, you want actual intimacy, then like that's what surrender retreat is about, because I've been on retreats where I'm like I don't really feel like I'm fully seen and I don't want that option. I really love intimacy. And we have an October retreat which is the 16th to the 19th. We already have one spot sold, one spot on hold pending um work dates for her and then that's it for 2025.
Speaker 1:Okay, I have to tap out after that because you know school holidays and things, but those are the ways that you can currently work with me and for both of us, I believe we have free connection calls.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think like to really talk about these connection calls because I think it's like the gap that people are like I don't really want to book that call because I don't want to be sold into it. We don't actually have a pressure thing Like, do we want to work with people? Yes, do we run a business? Yes, but if you come on a connection call and you're like this is really not for me, I'm actually not going to convince you to buy from me, right, like I can tell you how great it is, I can tell you all of these things, but if you're like this is I can't put food on the table, don't do it.
Speaker 1:If you're like you know what I? There's a difference between being scared, excited and like, wow, this is really not for. Wow, this is really not for me. If this is really not for you and you tell me like this is really not for you, I'm not going to convince you. So, like the reason I say that is because a lot of people don't book the connection call because they're like fuck, am I going to have to convince this person if I don't want it, that I don't want it.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 2:That's not how we run things here we're not using those, those questions where it's like I just need to speak to my partner, what do you think he's gonna say? Like okay, I saw, I literally saw that on a post the other day and I was like, are we still using that in 2025? Yeah, like for real, like honestly, I, I have people who do connection calls. I had one one. She was like super keen. She's like, yep, send me the email, blah, blah, blah. And then she's ghosted me. I'm like, okay, I sent the one email, then I followed her up, that's it. And I'm like you know, hey, how you going. That's it Like, if you're not feeling the pull right now, like with absolute love, we don't want you.
Speaker 2:Because it's not that we don't want you because we're like, oh fine, then, like you know, it's not our rejection wounds coming up or our abandonment coming up, it's genuinely because this work you need to be all in. Like we don't. We don't want people in because they're like, oh yeah, I feel like my people, pleaser, came out and I didn't want to say no to that person. Or like, oh yeah, like it could be kind of fun. It's like, no, no, we're here to do like. We take our work so fucking seriously, where when we're showing up to calls, we're putting all of ourselves into it, like I don't know about lorinda, but I've come in with some fucking like shit going on in my personal life and I put that in a nice little fucking box and I come in and I show up like I don't miss calls. I don't like I am here, I take this so so seriously, so like if you're not in that space yet, that's perfect, come to me in six months I also think like, especially when it comes to retreats and programs.
Speaker 1:The reason this is why I've said it all the time the reason that you can come on a call and be curious, like you're not actually going to waste my time, because this is part of my business. Like I make time for these connection calls because my deep thing is I want to be connected to more women, even if it means you're not going to work with me. Okay. But if I was to sell, like say, six people got on a connection call this week for the retreat and I was just like I have to really sell it to them because they're like it breaks the safety of that container, yeah, like am I gonna sell to you? Yeah, that's the whole reason. I'm on a connection call, I am gonna sell to you, I am gonna tell you how fucking great it is because I believe in it, but I'm not going to push you because it will break the safety.
Speaker 1:I do not want to have only six people at my retreat and one of them not really want to be there it's like a bad strawberry like that is not safe to me and I think that, yes, I can ask you all the questions and just be really curious about, like you obviously jumped on a call with me, right, there's something that's pulling you to this moment. But I just want to understand and when I ask you these questions it's not because I want to mirror back that I think you, you fucking have to do it to change your life. I want to mirror back because I want to understand where maybe my marketing has gone wrong for you, where maybe you're currently at Maybe a retreat's not ready for you, maybe you're currently at maybe a retreat's not ready for you. Maybe you actually need to go into a group program. Maybe you need to go into the membership. Maybe actually hang on a second, I work more with these type of people, but I know somebody that actually does exactly what you need.
Speaker 1:That's why we have connection calls because, like, our deep desire is, yes, we run a business and we want to provide for our family, but our deep desire is that we want to help people, because if I wanted to make more money, there's definitely other careers I could have done, because this is a lot of work. Okay, it's a lot of emotions, it's a lot of fuck you sometimes, but that's why, when we ask you do you want to jump on a connection call, it's because we just want to connect and to understand and to see if this is something that we can help you with. And nine times out of ten, if you're jumping on a connection call, we can actually fucking help you.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah and yeah, if you're not ready yet, that's, that's perfect, that's so fine, like, come to us when you are, come to us when you can give it the space and I'm not talking the whole. There's always going to be an excuse not to do it. You are always going to be able to give yourself an excuse because your brain's like no, that's too much change. I don't like that idea at all. If that's the sort of feelings that you're feeling, I I strongly encourage you to try and push through them, because it's generally just your nervous system being like that looks like a road. You should stay away from it. It's like it's not actually a road. Babe, you're in a semi-trailer, it's okay. But yeah, for us, we're not going to push you. It's the equivalent for me. It's like if you were deciding that you wanted to go like cliff diving or jump off of a fucking rock. It's the difference between us pushing you and us holding your hand and letting you pull us over when you go. Yeah, like, yeah, I'll come with you.
Speaker 2:I'll hold your hand, I'll be there as support, but I'm not. I'm not making you do the first step. That's on you.
Speaker 1:Yeah 100%.
Speaker 2:Yeah, then when you come to us, yeah, we'll hold you, we'll, you know, we'll tell you what you need sometimes, when you don't know, we'll do all of those sorts and we'll take all the decisions out of it for you. Like, we'll do that for you, but the first one needs to yours. Yeah, 100. I spend a long, a lot of my days trying to convince people to do things that they don't want to do. I have no interest in convincing grown-ass adults.
Speaker 1:Yeah and this is why we have different options, right, because not everyone is like if someone's booking a call for one-to-one and I'm like, actually, I think you have a wound around community, I'm going to offer you that, yeah. And I think that's important because I think also, the reason that we have it that way is because how many times have we gone into a call where we're like, wow, I just got, like I was interested, and then, because I was pushed, I'm like, oh, I don't like that feeling, really don't like being pushed, because I'm still like listening to what you're saying, going, is this for me? But now you're trying to really like push me into the deep end, yeah, and also like, if it's a high ticket, I'm sorry. Okay, I'm just gonna say it. If it's a high ticket, I am gonna check in with my partner yes, yeah, that's just about mutual respect convince me otherwise.
Speaker 1:Do you know how many times I have been told that? Like the one of the retreats I went to, and I was really glad that because I knew who her coach was and I knew his sale tactics, because I've been coached by other coaches, by him and so I knew I could.
Speaker 1:I could hear the script that they were saying and she's like so why do you need to check in with your partner? And I'm like well, I need to check in with my partner because actually he's the breadwinner of this family and I need to make sure that there's no extra bills coming up that I need to be contributing to, because I don't make hundreds of thousands of dollars and this is a high ticket investment. This retreat itself was seven and a half thousand dollars. Yeah, I do need to speak to him about it because I also want to know that I'm leading with the right emotions.
Speaker 1:I don't want to be leaning like leading with. I'm in so much pain and I need you to save me. I need to be leading with. I'm in pain and I would like to be able to change this. Is this the right decision for me? So yes, I am going to change. The only thing that I would ask from the connection call from you is just a response. So if I send you a message, you can just respond with like not right now, and that's okay, because I don't.
Speaker 1:I fucking hate being left on rent yeah same because I don't want to feel like the needy person, but I also want to close up the conversation. I want to close that loop, so that way, if you do come back, there's a different loop that's opening now. That's all I ask out of a connection call is hey, just like I'm going to check in with you in a few days, if you don't mind just sending me a reply, and it doesn't have to be with anything of like yes, I need to do this, it could be just not right now. Yeah, and I'm not gonna like badger you about it god.
Speaker 2:No, because honestly, we've forgotten. We do love you, but we've forgotten about it. Most of the time when I've shot off a text message, I completely forgot, forget that I've sent it, and then they'll reply to me like three days later I'm like, oh yeah, I've just sent it while I'm thinking of it, but like I'm not, I'm not sitting there going like why hasn't that person like signed up yet? Why hasn't that person messaged me back like I love you and I love, like I loved our time together, but like, again, I've got three kids. Yeah, you know, we've got. We do have. We do have better things to do than badger the shit out of you, trying to convince you that this work like we. Everybody needs this work in my humble opinion, but I'm not going to convince you of that yeah, this is your journey, and this is the thing with coaching.
Speaker 1:This is your journey. I and this is the thing with coaching, this is your journey. I'm actually not the saviour, I'm not the hero of your story, I'm just a guide. What's that guy's name? Like Gandalf, yeah, gandalf. Yeah, actually I'm more like a hobbit, but like, let's go with Gandalf.
Speaker 2:Living in the tiny little house.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a personality Actually, we living in the tiny little house. Yeah, I have a personality actually we're going to finish this bit, but I have to share this for all my short people. So I'm five three on a good day. Steph, you're about five three, five four, yeah about five, four, I think yeah yeah, so I definitely don't have a five three personality.
Speaker 1:I'm going with five three today, everybody. I don't have a five three personality. I have like a six foot, like you know. You know Matt's 6'5. So let's go 6'5, my personality.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I'm on the massage table the other day and he made a comment about putting the massage chair down. I'm like yeah, well, like the massage table down, like that's good, because I'm like 5'3 and a good day, and he's just like I said, but my personality doesn't say that. Oh don't, I know it. And then, like, walks out the room and I'm like you're my massage therapist, who I see once a month. How do you know you?
Speaker 2:know what? You know what we're like. We're like two hours. Yeah, we're like tiny, tiny dogs, but they've got like so much fucking sass we have to make up for it.
Speaker 1:I'd rather be Gandalf.
Speaker 2:That's a big fucking stick yeah, it is a big stick. You could beat a lot of people. I could keep people away from me as well.
Speaker 1:Like don't fucking hug me, Get away from me. Anyway, definitely need you to get assessed for ADHD and me to take another tablet. But let's finish here. Everybody, I hope that you really love this episode. It obviously went through so many different tangents, like understanding shadow work and like our stories because we are humans, and like how it really helps people right, and how you can continue to work with us. Or maybe you're finally listening to us after a year and going, all right, I'll get on the call. It's time, time, it's time. But we really hope you love this episode. We would love if you would leave a review. You can share it, you can message us. The more that you get it out there, the more people that we can talk to and help. And that's a year.
Speaker 2:It is a year, happy birthday, happy birthday.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for joining us. We've absolutely loved being here with you today, and if you have enjoyed today's episode as much as we have enjoyed recording it, please leave a review or drop into our dms. We would love to hear from you. Bye.