The Shadow Diaries
Real women - slightly unhinged - get real about the daily chaos of motherhood, business, relationships and everything that comes from life. From airing out the dirty laundry to actually washing it, we dive into the messy, beautiful, and hilarious reality of navigating life.
The Shadow Diaries
What if “no abuse” still isn’t safe? With Guest Coach Caitlin
In this episode of The Shadow Diaries, shadow work coaches Lurinda sits down with Caitlin—mum, counsellor, and mentor—to explore the quiet kind of relationship misalignment that looks fine from the outside but leaves the body shutting down.
Caitlin shares her story of months of throat tension, sudden weight changes, and constant messages to “be grateful, he’s a good dad.” When she finally said, “I can’t do this anymore,” her body exhaled for the first time in years.
Together we unpack what emotional safety really means: being able to feel, name, and ask without being dismissed. We talk about nervous system cues, over-functioning in relationships, and how repair cycles and counselling can only go so far when there’s a deeper disconnection.
You’ll also hear about the social fallout of choosing yourself, the pain of outgrowing a partner, and a simple body check-in practice to help you reconnect to your truth—without shame, villains, or clichés.
If you’re a woman, mother, or healer navigating relationship burnout or wondering why your body keeps whispering “enough,” this conversation is for you.
Listen now, follow The Shadow Diaries, and share it with a friend who needs to hear she’s not alone.
Reach out to us on Instagram!
Steph is here and Lurinda is here.
Welcome to the Shadow Diaries.
SPEAKER_00:This isn't a Deer Diary, it's a Deer Shadow. Here we are pulling the curtain back to the good, the bad, and the ugly to bring light to those deep inner thoughts and feelings you keep on having but are too ashamed to admit to. To provide a safe space and get radically honest about what's holding you back and what shadow work really is. This isn't surface level.
SPEAKER_01:It dives deep into your soul to meet it with acceptance and compassion. There is no need to hide. All is welcome. This can be a space where you learn and receive real women, real stories, real shadows.
SPEAKER_00:This is the Shadow Daries, and your story starts now.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, hello. Welcome back to another episode. And today I feel like these are always my favourite, like having guests on here because I really love hearing women's stories. And when this beautiful soul messaged me to say that she would love to jump on, I was like, yes, we must talk about this topic because it's a topic that honestly I feel like it's a little taboo, which is really annoying because it's actually very common now. But I'm gonna share my thoughts on this beautiful soul because this is actually the first time we're properly communicating that's not over text message and that we're meeting and all of that. But you know when you meet people and you're like, ah, you are like a bubble of safety. Like I literally love going on to her content and just feeling like super seen, super safe, and like everything that she's has like written and spoken about like really resonates with who I am as well as the women that I know that I work with and that are coming into this space. And you all know I have really big opinions of the coaching industry right now, but she is one that you need to go and follow because she she understands. She's not a bullshit artist, she actually truly understands because she is a mum. She is going through big life experiences, and instead of them bringing her down, I've just seen like this light over the last couple of months in her content and and the way that she shows up. And honestly, like when we go through these big experiences, it makes us want to like crawl in a hole. But it feels like she's done the exact opposite of that. Like she's really come out of this dark place and just like shown so many women that even though something doesn't work out, doesn't mean it's the end of you. So, beautiful Caitlin, welcome to this podcast. And I would love for you to share who you are.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you. I'm actually very touched by that. I am very that's really lovely. Um, yeah, okay, so I'm Caitlin. I run Heal with Caitlin, which is a women's mentoring, coaching, and counseling business. Um, I'm a mom, I've recently separated from my husband. Um in my day-day job, I'm a high school counsellor, and I yeah, love all things self-development, self-healing, and self-love. So yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. Super simple. I go on tangents and it's so bad.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I never know what to say. I'm like, oh, this is just me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, cool. I feel like we're just gonna dive in like super deep. So I know two beautiful children. In that nine-year period, how many years did you feel like this is actually not working?
SPEAKER_02:Four probably six would be where I really started to feel that there was like a misalignment, but also that it wasn't safe for me to be who I was, it wasn't safe for me to have a voice. Um that being from like my own conditioning, my own stuff as well, but also the environment that was set up within the marriage. Um, but most prominently, um the last three years of the relationship after we had our daughter, and that's when it all really like hit me, and I was like, Caitlin, like this, you need to look into this and unravel what's going on here because there was a huge misalignment and disruption in myself and in my nervous system. So yeah, cool.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so when you talk, you said like the six years, you were being married for six. So was this something that you were feeling even before you got married, or did that happen around that time?
SPEAKER_02:I think definitely before it was probably there the whole time. But I think from conditioning and from such a low self-worth within myself and not knowing who I was, when I did identify it such early on, I didn't know how to navigate that because I wasn't anchored into who I was and I wasn't, you know, at peace with myself. So I just thought this is the way it is. Like you should do, you know, you should be happy because of this and this and this and all of those kind of things. Um, but it was definitely there the whole time, but I didn't trust myself in that until like about three years ago.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So when you were talking about like you knew that there was something, there was a misalignment here. Did you actually know what it was, or were there was just like this nudge of like actually there's something here? Like, did you like obviously hindsight is a beautiful tool gift that I wish we had before, but it's hindsight. So was did you actually know what the issue was?
SPEAKER_02:I think in the beginning, no, not knowing the issue, definitely had an inkling, definitely had like a nudge from my nervous system being like, hey, something's not right, you need to pay attention. But because I didn't have the tools or the understanding about myself and my own needs, that kind of got suppressed, and then that's when it became like a process of like a whisper, a nudge, a smack, like then health issues, then screaming at me, and then that's when really three years ago I was like, Okay, the gig's up, like it's time to actually look into why. And that's when I chose to get us into marriage counselling and the journey then of like me reading all the books, doing all the programs, understanding like love languages, um also like inner child moons, like how his was showing up, how mine was showing up, how we were communicating between each other, every single book, every single like form of research, masculine, feminine, like marriage counseling in between, was all out there then and in the works for like three years until yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, crazy. So for the for people who aren't super familiar with like you mentioned like a nudge from your nervous system, like you had this thing that was telling you. What did that actually feel like for your nervous system?
SPEAKER_02:How did so all the way back and all the way through was like kind of like a little inkling of like this doesn't really feel very good, but you know, it'll be fine, yeah. Or it's it's normal, or you know, there's so many other good things about the relationship. So it's like a little nudge in there where it's like it's almost like a twang where it's like this doesn't fully feel safe or in alignment, but I don't know what it is, and it is a little bit uncomfortable in the beginning, and then that's when it sort of shifts in the nervous system into like, hey, like you need to start paying attention. Something's really not right, stop suppressing, stop pushing it down because it just keeps shooting back up. As soon as you try and put that lid back on there and you don't listen to it and honor it, it starts to bubble up to the surface, which is obviously when it then results in health issues and really like serious um effects in your life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And even when you're talking about like reading every tool, like tool and resource and book, I'm like, uh I can hear the fight response showing up there of like, okay, I must do everything, I must do everything, I must do everything. And then there's that key thing here of like, I must. I think because even though like I'm not a relationship coach by any means, but a lot of the women who come and work with me end up healing their relationships because it's the relationship to yourself. But you can even heal a relationship to yourself, but it also takes two to tango.
SPEAKER_02:100%.
SPEAKER_01:So while you were working on yourself, because this is also a big fear that I hear from a lot of women of like, if I work on myself, I'm gonna outgrow my partner. Did that come up for you?
SPEAKER_02:100%.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:100%. And then the nervous system goes into this state where it's like, well, no, no, no, we can't have that because this is a form of safety, this is a form of familiarity. So if you continue to grow, and for me, I always have like I've been developing myself since I was 16 when I was out of home in therapy, doing the courses, doing the coaching, like when you are in a relationship that feels safe, like the safest thing you've technically ever felt in your life, although not actually safe, your nervous system will try and cling on to that. So the thought of you continuing to grow and continuing to bloom basically and become your authentic self, the nervous system's like, absolutely not. Like, no, no, no, no. Like, shut that shit down. Like, we need to stay in the safe, we need to stay in the familiar. And I think that's like that pivotal moment when when you develop that self-awareness and that self-love for yourself where you can actually hear that little voice and be like, Hey, I know it's uncomfortable and I know it's feeling really scary, but like this is also not okay. This is also not in alignment of you know who you are and what you need, and something's not right, like it's trying to communicate to you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it would be really cool for us to also share because you've mentioned the word safe a few times, and for people who aren't like living and breathing personal development, like as coaches, we use that word so much. Can you explain to the audience like what safety is to you? Because it doesn't just necessarily mean like I'm not getting hit, I'm not getting verbally abused, I'm not getting like abused essentially.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for sure. And I think like to put it out there too, like in my relationship, I didn't have verbal abuse, I didn't have physical abuse, there was none of that. This is really talking about like emotional safety. So for me, safety within my being and in my nervous system is to be who I am, say how I feel, honour what I need, and advocate and use my voice to communicate those things safely. So I think safety, so for example, if we go back to the beginning of the relationship, I wouldn't say so. If we talk about like an example of what you could be met with if there was not emotional safety, if you say, Hey, you've done this and it made me feel like this, and then you get met with dismissive behavior or whatever it may be, and you don't feel heard and you don't feel safe and you don't feel held, also when you're not holding yourself and not feeling safe within yourself, that is signaling, and to me, that is signaling that it's not safe to be who you are, it's not safe to communicate your needs, it's not safe to be asking to be loved the way that you want to be loved. So therefore that's patterning into your nervous system. Hmm, this isn't safe, so therefore it feels very unsafe to actually be and do the things that you want to do and be.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I love that. I think it's so important to just really like unpack what we mean with safe. There's definitely situations where abuse is happening, and there's situations where it's like I actually just don't feel safe in my relationship to express. And I think even something that I've noticed from you is there's like a and we can talk on it as well, of like a building of safety in yourself because as you were talking about like uh dismissive behavior, I think it all your partner can also have a reaction. Just like I'm gonna have if my partner brings me something that I did not see, I'm gonna be like, Are you kidding? Hey, hey. Yeah, but it's then it's the way that we hold our partner's reactions as well of going, actually, that's not about me, right? I this to you, this is my feeling. You're allowed to react that way. And I heard this thing the other day that my partner and I were big on sharing podcasts right now. And it was feelings are valid, behaviors are not, right? So you can feel this way, but the way that you ri respond with it or react with it is not okay. And talking like, okay, I'm allowed to feel like I'm what's a what's an example? Like, well, being a mum, you tend to do everything, so I'm feeling a little bit used, right? But my behavior of just like shutting down and not communicating and making everybody else feel bad is not okay. It's up to me to go, this is the way I feel. Yeah. So I feel like we're just gonna take a little turn. How did you show up in your relationship with yourself during these years?
SPEAKER_02:How did I show up within myself? Yeah, I guess through that process, like even when I reflect back through it, although you know, extremely hard, like I'm very proud of where I did show up for myself, and although that didn't make sense to you know, my ex-partner, my friends, my family, like at the end of the day, I knew that the moves that I was making and the way I was communicating was in alignment with how I was feeling when I got to that point. It took a while, like it really took a while. Yeah, but um essentially, like that was you know, going to therapy, like learning about relationships, like learning about my own wounds, healing my trauma, figuring out if you know there was ways I could improve on how I communicate, how I, you know, maybe play like because we all play a part in that too. So taking accountability for my side of it as well, but also really showing up for myself in a way instead of, which is what I've always done for my whole life up until the last few years, instead of being like, you feel like this, so therefore I'm gonna shame myself and shut that down and hold it within and carry it around and not actually act in a way that is my truth. It was really building that safety within myself to be like, okay, Caitlin, like you actually feel hurt. You actually feel not heard, like you feel like you're not able to, no matter how much you communicate, no matter how much therapy, no matter how much courses, books, help, support, you like all you all I could do was show up for me and communicate my needs and honor myself in a way where essentially got to a point where it's like I am responsible for me and how I feel and how I communicate, and everything outside of that is outside of my control. So knowing that I was making moves within my control, and from within my truth, I guess, is where I showed up in my truth, and even if it wasn't received well or if it was, you know, met with judgment from other people, at least I knew that it was my truth, and I wasn't, you know, coming from a place of inauthenticity.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that's huge, and that's and that could be really hard while trying to navigate a relationship that's I guess inevitably breaking down. Now you mentioned like marriage counseling. I'm gonna be really honest. I have done relationship counseling with me and my partner years ago, and I absolutely fucking hated it. Yeah, with every fibre of my being. Yeah. Now I I'm not trying to project my experience, but like, what was your experience like in that?
SPEAKER_02:I think like so there were two different therapists over the three-year period um that I found for us to go to. The first one I found quite helpful because like the first time we went, it was our daughter, I think, was from memory four months old. So I was literally sitting in the marriage counselling room, breastfeeding my baby while also talking about this like deep pain and like this deep like feeling of not being heard. And I think for that experience, that first experience, that was probably quite a powerful and also healing experience for me because the therapist was actually like, Hey, you know, you've got this this wife, this mum who's literally here, like trying her best in her most vulnerable moments. Like it, I felt very validated in the way that I was being, you know, I guess heard in that situation. Um, so that was for you know a period of time that that that was to be honest, quite a good experience. Things got better. Um, but as I guess at the end of the day, what is kind of identified for that situation is no matter how much work two people can do, if one or the other doesn't have the same amount of like capacity to you know do the inner work on themselves to you know kind of bring up the energy within the relationship. There's always gonna be like this for me. There was a thing where it was like things would be really, really good for like two weeks, and then the ball would drop, and then they'd be really, really good for two weeks. So there was a constant rupture and repair, and that we talked about that in therapy as well. Um, but the second therapist was really like I really enjoyed her because she held me accountable for things too, but at the same time was like, you know, you're you're using the tools, you're very self-aware, like sometimes probably too self-aware. Um, yeah. And like maybe she was really good for me because she highlighted that I have a tendency to like fix things and like hold the heaviness of everything, and you know, be a bit more of my masculine to be like, we've got to solve this, it's gotta work, we've got to fix it, kind of thing. Instead of like actually allowing myself to feel how it was for me, like and how like neglected I felt within the relationship, and also how much I was neglecting myself. So two really good experiences, but two very different kinds of experiences. I would say I loved marriage counselling for the fact that it it really highlighted to me that when it got to the point where I was like, I can't do this anymore, I knew that I had done 280% of whatever like for I gave it 280%, and there was nothing more I could do. So I think going to that marriage counselling really helped me see like you really have given this your all. You didn't just throw in the tower, like you went to the depths, you fought till the end, and now you can't do it anymore because you can no longer self-abandon. So I think I loved marriage counseling in a nutshell.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And look, I'm not like shitting on it because like I it's such a time and place. I think for my relationship at that time, we had so much of our own personal shit that it was actually like not beneficial. And also, like I really struggled at that time to articulate how I felt. So I would go in there and I would look like the crazy one because I'm like getting louder and I'm like you're not hearing what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02:And it just felt like And because you were like trying to process it yourself in this inner turmoil, and you can't like verbalize it, but you're trying to get it heard, and it just comes out like, ah, yeah, it sounds like I'm crazy.
SPEAKER_01:I literally would walk out feeling crazier than I walked in. And I'm like, where is there time to process when we have children? And like and it was just yeah, it was just a very interesting dynamic. But for me, it was actually like we needed our separate, like we're very different personalities, yes, our separate things. But so you did marriage counselling for three years?
SPEAKER_02:Three years on and off, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, all right. So that's a long time.
SPEAKER_02:That's a long time, but a moment. Well of my own therapy, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:A lot of therapy.
SPEAKER_02:Um that's a lot of therapy as a therapist myself too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, that's um that's a lot of yeah, therapy. Um, cool. So I want to know the last straw. You've been like, you can see here that like there's a pattern of like you're trying to fix things and you're fighting, and you're you know, like I want to save this relationship. And that's can be such a beautiful thing because you can get to a place where it can be saved because sometimes we go through seasons, but like what for you was the last straw where you're like this is actually now not saveable?
SPEAKER_02:I feel like I don't know if there was like a specific, like I can a specific final straw. I feel like there was a specific moment where it was like, okay, like you, it's time for you to put down, you know, the like whatever my like fighting things were, like swords or like you know, holding everything up kind of thing. It was probably so we had been going to marriage counselling, and then there was like we'd it's it had slowly been breaking down. The marriage counselor was basically like like a really think, you know, she's like, I don't know what else to say. Like Caitlin, you've really given you know all the opportunities and tools that I would suggest you use, and you're kind of at a place now where it's like it's in your court, and she said this in front of him, and I was just like, you know, I just don't know, like this, I'm just gonna, you know, see how it goes, see how I feel. And I think there was a moment where I went for an additional, like, individual, my own therapy session, and then there was one more joint one, and then I went for an individual, and I think the days leading up to that I'd said, like, I just don't think I can do it anymore. Um, and I think there'd been a process for the last three months of the relationship, um, where it was at a point where he really knew that we were kind of on standby to see, because you know, I'd said so many times, you know, this is how I feel, this is what I need, this is what the this is what we've identified the issues are in the relationship, and this is how it's impacting both of us and also our children, um, because they're not getting the best version of their mum and their dad. Um, where it came to that session for myself where he knew I don't remember the exact details, but he came like I came home from it and he's like, Okay, so like what have you and it was in the hallway, like what have you decided? And I just said, like, I can't do it anymore. Like, I just can't. And then I just, you know, started crying and I was like, I'm really sorry, like I just I I can't do it anymore. Um, and then even within so like if we talk about the the last 12 months of the relationship leading up to this point, because it kind of works into that standby-ish but still working on a thing. Those 12 months, the last 12 months of the relationships, like I had huge health issues from just not like honoring myself because I knew it wasn't right, but I wanted to fight till the end to to keep my family together because I grew up with a broken family, and you know, I really owed that to him as well because he is a really beautiful person, and I wanted it to work, um, but unfortunately it didn't. So the last 12 months was like when we talk about the nervous system being like nudge, nudge, push, yell, scream, like shove, like I got to the shove point after the nine years, and it was like I had skin cancer on my lip, and I had thyroid issues from not speaking up for the last 12 months of the relationship every single day. It felt like I was being choked, like my my neck was that tight and like clenched from stress that like it was affecting how I felt every day. Um, I had a scare of breast cancer, so I had to do like two biopsies of that for a suspicious cyst in there. Um, I put on 15 kilos in 12 months just rapidly from from stress. Um my PMDD, so I had PMTD as well, and my ADHD, that all just like spiral out. Mental health crashed like 12 months of that. That when the moment I said those words, like I just can't do it anymore, within like a day, my throat released, and that's when I was like, this is like confirmation that this is like my body felt like it just kind of like relaxed a little bit in its like the way it was holding up in that fight, it was like you're gonna be safe now, like emotionally. You've honored yourself, like you've actually done the thing that you knew you had to do, but you were so scared of doing, and now you get to just like be. So I think that was the final moment where my body was just like Caitlin, and it was a very gentle thing. It was like Caitlin, like this is it, like no more.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's so crazy hearing that because like the the more you ignore your body, the louder it gets. It will literally come punching at you, like yeah, yeah, and then when you actually start making decisions that are like beneficial to you, it's kind of like your nervous system's like, ah, I can breathe.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think you at being trying to tell you that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. And it's so wild because like um before we got on, we were obviously speaking about like weight and stuff like that. And I said it looks like you've lost weight. And I mentioned my own weight stuff, but even like sicknesses for years. I would like if somebody had a cold around me, I would just get it. Where now I'm like, I think I've been sick maybe once.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because your immune system's like a bit more because your nervous system's more calm, more settled, more safe, not more susceptible to Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I also think that you when you're listening to your body more, you can tell like when it starts.
SPEAKER_02:So like Yeah, even like burnout.
SPEAKER_01:I'm like, oh, I can tell like when I'm like starting to reach that capacity. And instead of like ignoring it and pushing forward, you actually go, let me pull back and let me like rest. So that way you're not hitting burnout. And so, yeah, it's so wild to hear all of your health stuff because I'm like, okay, that's not just like little health things, that's pretty gnarly like health scares.
SPEAKER_02:There they there were quite like significant, and there's other little bits and pieces in there too. But basically, yeah, like, and I think we talked about it before we got on to with the weight gain, like, and that's not normal for me, and the the thyroid issues, which I'm still working on now, but like as soon as I made that decision to leave, like within three weeks, and no difference in my eating, and no difference in my exercise. Like, I just dropped seven kilos from like holding on, you know, so tight. And then as soon as I let go, it was like it's actually safe to let that go. Like, we don't have to carry that. Um, but you're so right, with like now, like when you have that awareness, you can tell the little niggles of like, like if I notice my throat's tight, I'm like, oh, you're stressed. Yeah, you're stressed. Like, what do you need to stop yourself from getting to that point of like yeah, you know, burnout or whatever it may be, or like where are you not speaking up? Where are you not using your voice? Kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it's cool when you can notice like where the stress starts. Like for you, obviously it's your throat. Mine is like in my my face. Like I get like really bad jaw pain and like the back. Yeah, because once again, it's like if we go symbolism, I'm closing my mouth so I'm not saying anything. Or I'm like, uh, because I'm on Zoom a lot, right? I'm on camera, I'm in front of people all the time. So I don't I've always been told that my face has subtitles. So you kind of already know what I'm thinking, but because I'm around people and I don't want to be mean, because there is that part of me where I'm like, what are you doing? I just like keep my face like neutral, but because I'm keeping my face neutral, I'm like my face is clean. Yeah, so fun factor do have subtitles that I am learning to turn off, but it's aware of it though. Like, yeah, so aware of it. Like I remember so funny, I'm gonna go on a tangent, but I remember going to this bridal shower, and I'm not like I'm not artsy, I'm not naturally cre like it's not something I enjoy. Yeah, it's I don't enjoy it. So I went to the bridal shower, yeah, and we had to make flower crowns. I was just like, it's my first time away from my child, and I'm making flower crowns. Like, and I just remember like as she was like the lady who was organizing that, as she's like teaching us how to do it, one of the um bridesmaids look at me and she's like, Surrender, your face.
SPEAKER_02:And I'm like, oh because it was just like, oh, clench clench unclenched.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm like, okay, don't look at the lady while you're making this face. But yeah, it's so funny. Like, but once you start to notice where your stress lives, you can go, okay, cool, this is what's happening.
SPEAKER_03:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Where do I want to go next? Actually, there is a piece that I was like, don't forget, don't forget, don't forget, because I also have raging ADHD. That moment that you said, I'm done, I can't do it anymore. Was there guilt for you making that decision?
SPEAKER_02:So this is where it gets interesting because my usual conditioning is yes, very, very guilt, very shame-driven from like childhood trauma. But in the six years, but especially the three years, so much guilt, so much guilt. You should be, you should be glad. Like he does this, he does that, everyone loves him. He's a great person, he's a great dad, blah blah blah blah blah. Oh, maybe there's something wrong with me, maybe I'm the problem, maybe you know, whatever. And I'd get like stuck in like a guilt and a shame and a I'm bad cycle. But I guess like through that journey of me honoring myself and being like, no, do you know what actually like that actually does make me feel like this, and I have communicated everything and beyond, and I'm still not being met with you know, whatever it is that I'm asking for. I don't feel guilty anymore. I feel really sad for me. Like, I feel really like it got to a point with that journey where it's like it's actually an honor to love me. So because I had learnt to love who I am after not liking who I am for my whole life and judging the shit out of myself, that I was like, it's an honor to love me. And like I really am lovable. And if I can't communicate a basic, you know, bare minimum need, then like, no, I don't have guilt because it's more of like a yeah, like a sadness, and also a sadness for the other person as well. Like, yeah, I think in a nutshell, no, when I made that choice, I didn't feel guilty. Of course, like for the three years, I've been like, but what about the kids? Like, how that's gonna work, how's it gonna impact them? How will it affect them? Knowing, like, from me coming from a divorced family. Um, I was like, but at the end of the day, the difference for that for me, for what I have in my control, is I'm aware of how that feels from growing up with that. I I see how that went wrong for me and how those two parents didn't co-parent very well. Um, but like we had a good enough friendship and relationship where we could come together and be like, hey, the bet we need to work towards the best interest of the kids. And although very hard, like the alternative is we stay in this, and they get a mum who is not herself, and a mum who is sick, like has proper chronic health issues, is so unhappy and can't be, you know, the best version of herself for those kids. Um, so we stay in that out of fear and safety, or we go over here and we do the hard thing and we have half the time, you know. I have to sacrifice half the time with my kids, but my kids get a happy, healthy mum. So I think that helps dissolve the guilt because yes, this is the hard choice, like it's way harder, so much harder, but but staying there like is so much more negatively impactful on the kids. So that helped my guilt.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I literally had this like perspective shift as you were saying that around like because when my partner and I were separated, I was nearly vomiting at the thought that my children, like, well, he would they're his children as well. Like that I would not have my son with me, like all of the time.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, right.
SPEAKER_01:But then I was just like, oh, it's actually a perspective thing here of just like if I'm separate, if I'm in a relationship where neither of us are happy, it's actually really impacting them when 100%. If we split, yes, it's gonna impact them because they're not gonna see me as much, but it's really gonna impact me as a the parent more.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So it's kind of just like I'm gonna take the pain of not seeing you and knowing that I'm gonna miss you. So you can have a better dad and you can have a better mum, or we can stay in this and you're actually just gonna have a shit time because neither of us are happy.
SPEAKER_02:A hundred percent. And then what does that instill into? And I think that like this is where it really hit me because that like after we had our daughter, I was like, she's you know, our first was a a boy, then she was a daughter. I was like, whoa, like I don't know that I can stay in this situation and have her grow up as well as my son, but like have her grow up thinking like I can't speak up, I can't communicate how I feel. It's not okay or safe to feel how I feel. It's not a safe or okay to be who I am. I have to suppress myself. Like, I you know, need to feel judgment. I there's there's you know, I didn't I could not let my kids grow up feeling like they also had to, you know, dull themselves down and suppress who they were and not be in their full expression of themselves. So I think, yeah, definitely it is like a bit of like I'll cop the the the pain of missing you, and like yes, also the guilt of it being hard for them as they transition through that, and of course, like in the long term too, like there is an impact, there's always an impact on them. But the alternative and the benefit is that yes, they do get a happier dad, they do get a happier mum, and that also like I feel good in the fact that my kids will grow up being like my mum really chose to take care of herself, to also like you know, my mum chose to be brave and do the thing that everyone else, you know, judged her on, but she knew what she needed, and she stood up and asked for what it was that she needed and went after it and got it. So, yeah, I think that helps too for them to hopefully know that they can be who they are and speak up for what they need.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that. All right, we're gonna take a little shift because I feel like it's needed because we've kind of like stayed in this bubble of just like cool, what was the impact? Like, you know, marriage counseling and kids. Let's feel a little bigger, separating. How did that impact everybody else? Like, not even impact's the right word, like how did everyone else take it like around you? Friends, family, all of that.
SPEAKER_02:So, so I'll put in here first that this is the importance of being connected to yourself and being, you know, within your truth and having your own back and knowing your why as to why you do and move the way you do. Because, like, then for me, I lost heaps of friends. I lost family members through this situation. I had people turn their back on me, even though like when we really break it down, like I was self-ab I was abandoning myself, and I was also very abandoned emotionally in my relationship, and you know, my some of my close friends who I'd been friends with for the longest time, and also my sister, my biological sister, who was so very close to me, and who all knew the struggles that we were going through and how that was for me, and seeing me cry frequently, and all of those things, and my health issues. I had friends and family members that completely turned their back on me and abandoned me, completely just turned for not for no reason because there was nothing in the relationship, like there was no affairs, there was no abuse, there was no toxicity, it was very healthy, very, very loving in a way that you know we both cared about each other and did the best that we could for each other and our family. Um and then to have friends and family like completely turn their back on me was interesting, but okay to navigate because like I was like, So you're telling me because I've showed up for myself and I've gone after something that I know is right for me and my kids, that you're not gonna turn around and be like, I don't agree with that, I don't I'm gonna judge you on that. You're telling me now that you just completely abandoned me. And I was like, Okay, if you're like for these people, like if you're gonna abandon me for me choosing to no longer abandon myself, okay, you're not meant to be in my life anyway. Yeah, like that was the yeah, I guess, and of course, hurtful, and of course it comes up often still sometimes. I'm like, wow, you you really just disposed of me like that, but at the end of the day, like I didn't dispose of me, so that's where I can balance out the judgment of others and I guess the abandonment of others, yeah, for me choosing to you know pursue my health and happiness.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and that is just so wild. It is so wild, like listening to that, my heart hurts for you because it's just like even though I believe that I'm a huge believer that you can choose your family, like I mean, I'm a stepmom, so like I I'm a true true believer of like blood and nothing more to me. It's like the people who show up for you, and some people will be in your life for a reason and others will stay forever. But my god, sorry, I think I've been ending landing it's been rough, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think like even specifically, and this will probably help other people too, is like when you have really close, if we talk about like the close-knit people who were really like intertwined in those social groups um and relationships as a couple and as a family, and you're all intertwined, and then when you know you choose to step out of that and it doesn't make sense to other people because they come back with you with the but he's a good dad and he's a good person, and he does this, and he makes the lunchboxes and whatever it is, like it's just yeah, wild, but also okay. Like that's okay. Like, if you I I also understand some people we all have different capacities, so and different levels of awareness as well. So, what is like so true and real for me could make complete sense to someone who's you know maybe not at a level where they have even any ability to feel into their nervous system and be like, hmm, am I actually safe or am I self-abandoning? Or like, you know, there's there's there's a pattern as well with the people who some of the people who did abandon me that it was kind of like I'm just gonna put my head in the sand because this is too confronting and it's too scary because that's my family and group as well, and now you've ruptured it and you've changed it, so now I don't know how to be around you, and then that's when I've just been like, that's painful, really painful, but also okay. Like, that's okay. If you can't love me for me, and for me choosing to um show up for myself and be a better mum for myself and you know the kids and all that, um, then I really don't think those people at this time deserve a place in my life. So I guess that's really helped with that situation of the judgment and all of those things. But had that had had I not have been anchored into who I was and done all the work and the identifying of my needs and my beliefs and my conditioning and healing my trauma, like I wouldn't be at that point. I would be a spiraling mess. Like I've you know had depression, anxiety, like heaps of mental health issues and struggles my whole life. So if I had not have done that work on myself and like really learnt who I was and what I needed and heal the parts of myself that were basically running the show, I wouldn't be able to sit here today and be like, and that's okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And I think like what you say is I'm like, yeah, that makes so much sense because it just hits an L on the head for me. Because I'm a huge believer of like to have a healthy relationship, you do really need to have a healthy relationship with yourself. Or and I mean healthy, I don't mean fully healed. I mean a willingness to to meet yourself more. And 100%. It just sounds like you did that while also navigating the breakdown. Because I feel like my journey is like the opposite, because he broke up with me while I was in my hot mess era, and then I had to find myself afterwards.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, right. So it's like a flip-see.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. So then, but in your what you're saying is like, yeah, cool. But what we need to do is actually build safety within ourselves so that way when we do speak up, it's not coming out of like place of pain. And like you're like, no, no, no, this is this is my boundary, or this is what I'm needing, this is whatever. And also, like, I love that you're talking about different people's capacity because um in my in my relationship, I'm like the rainbow, I'm like the woo-woo, I'm all of these things. And my partner, for anyone who wants to understand, is a financial advisor. Yeah, numbers man, black and white, logical. But we still work because there's capacity to go. I still want to know who you are.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right. I still have like we have very different like interests, values, but at the end of the day, it still comes under the same umbrella of like, okay, I want this relationship to work. I want to be able to communicate and also be heard, and and our kids are really important.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, it sounds like you both have a willingness that you you both want to get to know each other and grow for yourselves and the relationship, and that's like key.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Does it come with its um with its moments?
SPEAKER_02:Oh yes, yes, yes, absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Cool. So this it just also sounds like you've abandonment's, I think this is what happens with people with fear of abandonment. Abandonment's still gonna happen in some way in our lives, right? It can show up in our business when clients leave us, it can show up in our income, it can show up in our friends and our relationships and stuff like that. But it sounds like because you realized that you by making this decision, you were no longer abandoning yourself, it made the other people who did abandon you still painful, but you're like, I have a choice here.
SPEAKER_02:What's what's what's worth more risk? Like, is it is it okay? Like, because obviously, if we talk about you know the effects on my health and my body, I could choose to continue to abandon myself, or I could choose to be like, okay, that's really painful, and you guys are abandoning me for something that is actually not even a concern of like it's not it's it's nothing in your control, it's my life. Um, the the risk there to choose, like a hundred percent every day of the week, I'm gonna choose to not abandon myself because I abandoned myself for my entire life, and I do I did have that abandonment wound. So I think I think it's really like beautiful that you said as well. I went through that process of learning to not abandon who I was and learning to like hear myself and love myself and know myself, whilst also trying not to let my marriage fall apart. So it was like a double whammy. When yeah, um it got to that point, and then of course, like the complexity of when I was like, I'm not self-abandoning anymore, and then I I didn't, and I made that choice, and then people abandoned me. But it was like at the end of the day, you know what? It's okay if people do, because like I know now from now on, like I'm so anchored into who I am and what I need, and I've worked really hard to be who I am that if anything happens in my life, I know that I've got my own back and I know that I won't self-abandon, and of course it's still a work in progress, it always will be, because it's such a deep like patterned into my nervous system, but like I am okay with people disposing of me as long as it means I I haven't disposed of myself and I haven't abandoned me and my needs and who I am.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love all of that. Do you feel like part of the reason? And this is just me assuming because I'm actually interested, is because you like you literally mentioned, but he's a good dad and he does the lunch boxes and all of those things. Like I feel like there's a conditioning here piece of just 100%. Like you're you're lucky that you've got somebody like this. And I'm just like as you're saying these things, to me, I'm going, that's actually bare fucking minimum. Yeah, yeah, it is, it is. And I literally was like, because I have to say, like, I am very privileged, but also like not because it's the bare minimum for me. Like, my partner is a great fucking dad, like super supportive. But I'm not gonna stay with somebody just because they're doing the fucking bare minimum and being a good dad. So I feel like there's a you should be grateful because you have somebody who's like that.
SPEAKER_02:There's that there was that um shaming component of myself where that's why that I had that internal struggle for such a long time because it's like, well, your family loves him, like he, you know, um provides, like he, you know, works really hard, he, you know, helps with this, he does that, he's a good guy. There's no abuse, there's no affairs, there's no lying, like there's no identifiable, identifiable bad things happening. So you should be grateful, you should stay. Look how much worse, you know, other people have it, etc. etc. There's no domestic violence, like you know, all that that was that inner turmoil for such a long time, which is why I got so fatigued and burnt out and sick. Where it was like, Do you know what? Fuck that. Like, no, like that is bare minimum. And if I have to voice and continue to voice the bare minimum and still not be met with the bare minimum of my emotional needs, and like for a bit of perspective, like I'm a counselor myself, I've done a lot of work on myself, I'm very self-aware, I'm very healthy in the way that I communicate those needs. So when when I say like I I really broke it down in a very easy but compassionate, empathetic way and strong communication skills, and to still not be met with you know that, it it's yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it just honestly sounds like two very different people. 100% that just don't that don't match right now. And like as you're thinking about it, one of my biggest fears for my relationship is that I don't want to raise our children and them go, they go and live their lives, and I'm stuck with somebody that I don't like. That I'm stuck with somebody that I can't have a conversation with because we are misalignment. Yeah, yeah. Like literally our whole year was just like we need to find something that we can do together because our interests, like spiritually, do not overlap whatsoever. He's into cars and I'm into all of this other stuff, right? Like he's into this and I'm into the like it's honestly like we did this personality test, and he I can't remember it's like the Myers Bridge test. Yeah. So he's literally the left hand side, and I'm literally the right hand side. So you're complete like polar opposites, polar opposites, polar opposites, like crazy. But I also don't want to get to my kids being like leaving the home and me being like, well, why do we wait so long to put our relationship first? Like, are we actually better to be together or separated? And I don't want to wait until I'm older and my kids are no longer here to do that.
SPEAKER_02:And so when it's wasted time, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I feel like listening to you, I'm just like, you don't actually have to have like an affair or some form of a trail or line or like these big events. It's like could be as simple as like, why like our relationship's not working because we're not communication for some reason isn't working, our connection intimacy isn't working, even though you guys like have done years of counseling. Sometimes it just doesn't work.
SPEAKER_02:No, no, sometimes there's just a misalignment, and I think like when you were talking about before with like the fear of outgrowing, also people can be different with and and this is fine, like this is like you know, some people don't want to do that or don't feel safe enough to do it. But like when one person really loves to grow and develop and be the best version of themselves and do the hard shit to get there, and the other person doesn't quite feel like safe within their own internal being, or you know, knows no better and isn't ready to to change that, there's a misalignment, like there is there is an outgrowing, but I guess like in situations for people who may be in a different situation to me where there is an ability to get both of you to continue to grow to come together, beautiful, perfect. But if there is not, and like a person, like the for example, on a woman's perspective, if you have to communicate your bare minimum needs and your your bare minimum of like emotional safety and what it is that that looks like and how that feels for you, and you're met with resistance or dismissiveness or an inability to get like to give that, then like I think that's when we really need to look within ourselves and be like, am I willing to actually live my life feeling like this, with you know, like essentially no joy, no pleasure, no fun, no alignment, no, you know, like zest and like happiness for life. Because I can tell you, for me, before none of that. Temporarily, I'd try and force myself to to be in those moments, but I knew within myself that there was a misalignment, but I wanted it to work. The moment I stepped out of that, like the colour is brighter, things are juicier, like everything is so much like harder, yes, but not not that hard. So, like, I guess that's that quote where it comes in too, where it's like choose your hard. Like, yeah, hard is staying there, abandoning yourself and being in that full safety, or hard is like take a risk. If you know, if you know you've done everything you can and you know that it's just not right for you, and you've honored yourself and you've looked into it and you've assessed all the areas that could be playing a part in why it's not working, then you go do that. Then I can guarantee it is it is very juicy, it is very nice, it there's there's joy again, there's pleasure, like there's you know, it's it's just the trust in yourself too, though.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was so funny when you said that quote, literally the whole like podcast was just like, oh, it's a choose your hard situation. Yeah, yeah. Like, and then you said it, and I'm like, yeah, that's like real alignment. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. 100%. Yeah, and I like when you were talking about like so something else that I hear from a lot of people is like like the outgrowing thing, but like they're not doing this, this, and this, like personal development. And I just want to like add in there that like our personal development can look different. 100%. Because is my partner got like honestly, when he tells people that I'm a shadow work coach, he just tells them I'm a wizard. And I'm like, please don't tell people I'm a wizard. You're like, uh I'm like, yeah, say something else for God, like, but he You're like something a bit nicer. Yeah, look, my sister does tell people I run a coven, so I'm like, a wizard's probably better. So I'm like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_02:You're like, I'll take, I'll take it. I'll take it.
SPEAKER_01:Wizard's fine, okay. I have to go for it. But it's like the way that I do personal development is gonna be so different to the way he does it. I don't do like traditional talk therapy anymore because I mean I can talk out of my ass, obviously. So I can tell you all of my things, but I actually need to experience it. Where my partner, he has a different thing, and he's just like actually talking about it is already a huge fucking step, and we forget that our voice is actually part of our body. So talk therapy. I gave a shit for ages, but it's actually really good because your voice is your body. So like doing that. And his thing is also out of comfort zone of like making new friends.
SPEAKER_02:Where mine's growth. It's gross, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Where mine is like, actually, I just need to be alone for five fucking minutes, right? Yeah, I need to come back into my little introverted thing and recharge. Like that to me is choosing myself because I'm like, I've had a pattern of like constantly, you know, taking care of others and always been, and I'm like, actually, no, I need to say no. So growth can look so different.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm. And I just I'm glad you added that in because it's it's very true. Like growth, you like when we think, and I went through this stage like maybe two years ago, where I was like, Well, for example, to him, I was like, Well, I'm doing this and you're not doing this kind of thing, and like if you're saying you want to work on this, blah blah blah blah, whatever. But then I was like, the way I grow and the way I heal and the way I develop is completely different to the way he does. He's got completely different childhood experiences to me, he's got completely different temperament and personality to me, and also like different like drive and ambition and everything. So, what that looks like to someone may look completely different to you. Like, for example, some of my clients they love journaling. I hate journaling, but like some people love it, and I'm like, I couldn't think of anything worse. Like, yeah, so like the the personal development, it it really like I do love that it does look and it shouldn't there's no like expectations on you know what the other person or whoever does in that journey, it's just like I think the ability to like have a dedication to learn new ways or to improve or to stop the behaviors that are hurting someone. Um and then if if that's if there's if that's not there, then that's just like a that's a self-thing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I love all of this. And to wrap this up, I always love this question, and some people love it and some people hate it. If you could go back to oh, okay, if we could go back to Caitlin three years ago, what would you tell her?
SPEAKER_02:Hmm, that is an interesting one because I've got two things coming up. So one would be like I would go back and say to her, like, it's all gonna be okay. Like it's all gonna be okay. Like you are going to get the life that it is that you've always dreamt of, and you are going to feel connected to who you are, which is what you've tried to do for your whole life. The other part of me is like it's hard to explain. Like, I wouldn't change what happened in that relationship. Like, I feel yeah, I I don't know. I don't know what I would yeah, I just I wouldn't I wouldn't change it because the thing is like I actually wouldn't be who I am today if that didn't happen, and I wouldn't be able to be in this space of having the honor and the privilege of like coaching other women through finding who they are and like coming back to themselves and using their voice and setting boundaries and choosing themselves regardless of the judgment and the guilt and everything like that. Like I just really wouldn't change it. Yeah, painful, yes, yes, but also uh yeah, yeah. Um, yeah, it's it's made me who I am, and that's I guess what I look at throughout my entire life is like it's all it's all added, you know, to the experience of becoming who I am. So I think I'd just say to her, hold on, babe, just like hang in there and like yeah, it's gonna be okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I really love that because I had this huge theme with everybody in my life right now, especially like my clients, of like, you can't bypass the pain.
SPEAKER_02:Right?
SPEAKER_01:You gotta go through it, you gotta go through it, and also everyone will have some significant pain in their life. And I always think back to like I heard it ages ago, and it was about public speakers, and you don't listen to the public speaker who just goes, Yeah, I'm fully healed.
unknown:Right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like you know, like I'm so happy. You listen to the public speaker that has been through the dark depths and has come out the other side and going, Well, that was fucking rough.
SPEAKER_02:That was fucking shit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and so it's kind of just like these experiences do shape you, and you can't just bypass it into healing. Right? Healing is always continual, but also like you do have to experience the shit.
SPEAKER_02:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Mm-hmm. So but 100%.
SPEAKER_02:And when you experience that shit too, like usually it'll be connected to something like deeper within that you didn't realize was there, like shadow work, um you didn't realize was there, and then you're like, Oh, that little that little guy down there, like it all activates things within you to to help you grow and to help you heal. And like, I will never say, I'm healed, like it is a forever you know, unfolding journey, and it's always pivoting and changing. And yeah, I think I like what you said there too, with which is what I say to my clients like you really can't bypass it. And if you do, you're just putting a little lid on it, like you really have to feel it and go through the depths to be able to come out the other side and actually, you know, heal and feel and experience the beauty in life again.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love all of that. For somebody who is listening who may be going through a separation or maybe in marriage counselling or maybe just in a bloody rocky place, what would you tell them?
SPEAKER_02:Um, I think that what I would say is just make sure so so pull back for a second and just feel into yourself, like notice like what is this? It'll just be a quick tool, but like notice like what is happening within your body. Are you clenching, like you holding back? Is your throat really tight? Like mine was like um how do you feel? Like, do you feel safe in your environment physically, emotionally? Like notice like what's happening, take a second pull back instead of trying to control and fix and do all the things and like just check in with yourself. Like, what is it that you're feeling? Like, what is it that you need, and what's one step that you can take today, one bit of action that you can move towards like honoring yourself and what it is that you you know, what what it is that your body is trying to communicate to you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. If somebody wanted to, well, I mean, I said at the very start of this, silently stalk. If someone wanted to silently silently stalk you, where can we find you?
SPEAKER_02:So Instagram, which is heal with Caitlin. Um, yeah, that would be the Best place, like you, like you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, Instagram's so easy. Now, uh, are your DMs open if somebody wanted to ask you a question or always?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, even my DMs are even open. Like, honestly, I have that many conversations in my DMs just to have like a chat. Like, I actually genuinely love that. So, always open, always open.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. All your details will be in the show notes. And if anyone does want to chat with her or connect and also just follow her, honestly, all of her content is just like so lively and fun. Um, and it just makes you really think about things. But thank you for being on here and we'll talk soon. Thank you. Thank you.
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