The Shadow Diaries

We Nearly Broke Up - Friendship Edition

• Lurinda & Steph

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We unpack the near breakup that almost ended our friendship and how we found our way back. From anxious and avoidant attachment styles to business comparison, unmet needs, and emotional repair, this conversation explores the messy, human side of female friendship.

We talk about:
 • spotting the slow cracks and micro-moments of disconnection
 • anxious vs. avoidant attachment in friendships
 • over-responsibility, boundaries, and honest communication
 • comparison in business and diverging life paths
 • repairing ruptures while emotional (without bypassing)
 • long-distance friendship structures that actually work
 • asking for what you need in clear, grounded language
 • how rupture and repair deepen trust and safety

If you’ve ever wondered how to navigate conflict in friendships, rebuild trust, or handle emotional triggers with compassion - this episode is for you.

Subscribe for more raw conversations about friendship, healing, shadow work, and the real stories behind repair.
Share it with someone who needs a reminder that they’re not broken - just human.

Reach out to us on Instagram!
Steph is here and Lurinda is here.

SPEAKER_04:

Welcome to the Shadow Diaries.

SPEAKER_01:

This isn't a Deer Diary. It's a dear shadow. Here we are pulling the curtain back to the good, the bad, and the ugly to bring light to those deep inner thoughts and feelings you keep on having but are too ashamed to admit to. To provide a safe space and get radically honest about what's holding you back and what shadow work really is. This isn't surface level.

SPEAKER_04:

It dives deep into your soul to meet it with acceptance and compassion. There is no need to hide. All is welcome. This can be a space where you learn and receive real women, real stories, real shadows.

SPEAKER_01:

This is the Shadow Diaries, and your story starts now. Welcome to the Shadow Diaries. Today we're recording in person, which is so fucking weird for us. Because it's it's a little bit more normal because I'm used to seeing Lorinda through a screen, but not with me, also in the same shot.

SPEAKER_04:

Which is why we sound really awkward.

SPEAKER_01:

A little bit. It's really weird. Bringing bringing your online friendships into person. It's a weird medium. I keep looking at you, I'm like you're very close.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm like, I can see all of your body, not just the top half, not just the top half.

SPEAKER_01:

Probably lucky.

SPEAKER_04:

This episode has those awkward moments where because we're still like landing that we're next to each other.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's really weird.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Bearing in mind we speak daily, but at least once a week via video. So being in the same place. Very fun and bizarre.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Yeah. Which is which is actually really cool though, because today we're going to be talking about friendships. And this is one when I knew that she was having a like, if we record a podcast, it needs to be this one.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Because this one's going to be so interesting for not only you guys to listen to, but also for us to speak about in person. I'm like, oh, here we go. So the reason we're going to talk about friendships is that we have been doing this podcast for over a year now. We've been friends for a couple. Yeah, like two years maybe. And we nearly had a friendship breakup.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we nearly broke up.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that was so funny to talk about now. But we had an extreme rupture that we weren't sure if we were actually going to be able to repair. And it's like, I'm trying to like bring my memory back to everything, but it essentially started I would say the crack started last year. Yeah. Like around this time last year.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I think it was. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So we were in a container together, um, a business container. And even that container had a few cracks in it in itself. Um, and we can talk about that another time. But I had just gone to Canada and I had come back, and there was just things that we weren't open with each other about because you kind of get into this phase in personal development where you're like, oh, but it's mine, it's my projection, it's my responsibility. So I'm just gonna hold it. So we took that personal development a little bit too far because we're like, yep, okay, I can see why this is frustrating me, I can see those cracks because it's mine.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Throw in as well that neither of us are big fans of conflict. No, we both are. We both like to avoid that like the plague. And yeah, it was it was just basically like the perfect storm, really. And so yeah, we we had a bit of a bust. I remember I messaged you, it was like one random afternoon. I don't even remember. It was like I think it was like January, February this year, actually. Yeah, it would have been. Um, and I messaged you, I'm like, oh, I've had this like thing drop in, can I share it? And you said to me, I'm not really in the space for it right now. And I was like, Oh, what did I say? Oh, no, you said I've you can send it, but I might not reply. And I was like, that's gonna do bad things for me. So you were like, That's okay, I'll reply. And when I said to you, you were not ready to hear, and like mistake number one, yeah, that just because you're ready to talk about it, it does not mean that the other person is ready to receive. And looking back now, I should have gone to my fucking journal.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and then my own thing, I had my own thing because something that I really struggle with is when somebody needs to tell you something and you know that you're not ready for it, but then you're just gonna like think over and over and over and over again about it. Like, that's my biggest thing. Like, if you're you've got something to tell me, I'm like, I have to hear it right now because that fixer comes out of like, cool, so what what the fuck is it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, like don't tell me that you need to talk to me to tell me what it's about.

SPEAKER_04:

Just tell me what it's about. But in my own thing, because actually this would have been like late Feb, maybe March, because my stepdaughter had been in a car accident, and that was a hard thing as well, because like the cracks had started and I just went into like you know, a bit of trauma response, like we weren't sure what was happening with my stepdaughter, it was a really horrific accident. Um, and even though it was a few months in, I went into like fix-it mode even for that for that accident. So I was like, cool, just keep going, keep going through the motions, all of the things, and didn't really do any grieving around it or any processing around it. So when you had sent that message, I was like, fuck. Like, cool, I know I don't have capacity, but then the I guess the sh shadowy side of that was like I have to fucking hear it because I need to know what the fuck's wrong so I can just fucking fix it. Yeah. And I remember I can't even remember what that message was about. I have terrible memory, but I remember the feelings around it, and I'm like, fuck.

SPEAKER_01:

It was that I felt left out.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that's what it was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I realized what it was, and I yeah, I I can't remember exactly what I said, but it was around that that I'd had this thing drop in. And for me, like I didn't think I was like, oh, I've realized what this is, I've realized why I'm so like annoyed about this, blah blah blah. I didn't really think that it was that big a deal for Lorinda. I was kind of like, oh, you know, I'm just I'm just sharing this thing, and then she was like, Well, actually, you know, that kind of triggered then the things that she hadn't been saying to me, and it was like, oh, oh, there's things here, and that could that's what can happen, right? Where we go to someone with what we think it's just gonna be a simple conversation, a simple like, hey, I've just realized this, and then it kind of opens the door for them to say things as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

But there's duality in that because I fucking hate when people do that to me. If I'm having a conversation with somebody and they're like, actually, this I'm feeling this way, and I'm like, why didn't you fucking bring it up then? Yeah. So I was doing my own shit around that because I was just like, okay, is this a door? And the problem is in looking back at it now, I didn't ask if it was a door, right? I remember being like when we had our uh conversation, like what I could have done better is actually go, hey, this has actually opened up a few things. Can we actually talk about it? Instead, I was just like a little bit defensive and a little bit like cool, there's a fucking opening because I fucking hate bringing shit up. Yeah. Um, and I'm like, cool, opening, I'm gonna drop all of this. I honestly don't remember what mine was about.

SPEAKER_02:

Neither do I.

SPEAKER_04:

This is so funny. I just remember the thing is, I remember the feelings around things. Yeah. And I remember like just feeling really frustrated, and there was a part of me that's just like, fuck, I have to take care of my family, like we have this big thing, and now like she feels left out. I don't even have fucking time for myself. Like, yeah, yeah, but it was actually had nothing for that part, it had nothing to do for me. I think mine, like if we're gonna look back, so Steph and I went through a really slow period in our businesses last year. And like it was around the same time. I think we're actually like kind of entering that now, but I've mine like I feel like now this year, ours is very intentional.

SPEAKER_00:

Purposeful, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Last year we were like, we've just spent all this money on a business container, like our businesses are slowing down, like what the fuck's happening?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And I remember that you got out of your slump quicker than I did. Yeah. And I remember being like, what like going into like that comparison of like, cool, like she's getting more clients, she's getting this and getting this and this, because uh, I guess in that container there were so many beautiful realizations that like our businesses don't actually have to look the same. Yeah, like our businesses don't have to be that way, and my business has changed a lot. But I remember having that comparison of like, you know, I have to try like a huge try out shadow, I have to try really hard at everything. And I'm just like watching you get these things and you understand these things, and I'm like essentially a little bit like a fucking I feel left out too it in a different way, yeah. Yeah, yeah, and I remember that, I remember feeling that way, and oh, and it was also like um I think you missed, and it was my fault as well, but like I I got an opportunity and it was like kind of skipped over. It was something so small, yeah, and you were and you didn't say anything about it, and then I felt like oh, like I felt like I could celebrate it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. It was just like honestly, looking back, it was a series of I think difficult moments in both of our lives where we like, and obviously, as once you take the rose-colored glasses off, and if you're already pissed off with somebody, it just amplifies everything. So previously, these things probably wouldn't have been that big a deal. It would have just been a quick voice note, which is what we normally done. It's like, yeah, okay, cool, like no dramas, whatever. But this time, because obviously Lorinda was already having feelings, and I was already having feelings. So the second that somebody said something, because we were already feeling that defensiveness and that anger and that frustration within ourselves, we kind of took that opportunity to make each other wrong, where it was like, Well, you're you've done this and you've done that, and I feel left out here, and I feel like you're not supporting me, and you know, yada yada yada. So instead of unpacking those in a regulated space, we unpacked them from defensiveness, yeah, and all at the same time.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it was just like we feel all of these things, here's a potential doorway. Yeah, let's go into it. And I remember, like, for me, it wasn't like in the moment that pissed me off. It was the fucking way we handled it. Yeah. Like, so like for you, you're sharing all these things. I don't have capacity to hold it, I don't have capacity to listen, I don't have capacity to even try and fucking understand it because all I'm hearing, like, this is the funny thing about perspective, like you're saying, hey, because of these things, I feel left out. And in my head, I'm going, oh, she's telling me that I'm not putting enough effort in.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, which is not what I was saying.

SPEAKER_04:

No, but that's what I was thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, like, if we go, so how long did that last?

SPEAKER_01:

Like, there was a couple of weeks. It was a good few weeks because you were like, I want to speak about this in person. And it's really funny because I didn't actually realize this until this particular moment that I have a mad at avoidant attachment. As soon as I think someone's mad with me, or I think that a friendship is gonna go down the drain, I was like, nope, I'm out. I was like, I'm done, like, nut fucker, like I can just cut this off. Like, I don't have to worry about it, we don't have to fix it. She's in Queensland, I'm in the Northern Territory, like, you know, I'm just gonna avoid it, avoid her, avoid it. Because I have had friends who will come to me before and said, like, I don't want to be friends with you, and it really, really dug into that wound. I've been broken up with in the same way as well. So it really hit that wound for me pretty hard. And I was just like, I'm out. If she had never messaged me again, I wouldn't have messaged it.

SPEAKER_04:

I remember it went on for a few weeks there. So it was a big there was a cyclone. Oh yeah, there's a fucking random cyclone here.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that was when the cyclone was in Brisbane, in like Brisbane area.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and yeah, fucking messaged me.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't, I didn't, I didn't.

SPEAKER_04:

It was totally fine, everybody. But she was just so fucking avoidant. And I was just like so dirty. Like, this is the thing, because like these tiny little things ended up adding up, right? Like, because I was already frustrated, you were frustrated, we were avoiding it. I think we gave we were like, let's give each other space, and the space for me was like, cool, like I really want to have this friendship, and Steph's like, cool, how the fuck do I avoid things? And this is one of those moments where I'm like, oh, cool. Like it was in that conversation where I was just like, Oh, hang on a second, when I'm in conflict, I'm okay. It's the getting to the conflict, yeah. Because I remember on the phone you being like um something about uh it was something to do with like effort and then like wanting this friendship. And I remember saying on the phone going, if I didn't want this fucking friendship, I wouldn't be on the fucking phone with you.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm like, You know what? That's it. That was another one of your of your little bits because you were pissy with me because I never had time because I was really busy. Like I had a heap of clients, and you're like, you never have time for me, like you're always so busy, and like you don't have time to record stuff, you don't have time to catch up. And I think that with everything that had happened with the accident and all of that sort of thing, I think that had probably been rubbing on you for a while, and obviously because you didn't have the chance to really process it, yeah, I feel like it just it was just a series of unfortunate events.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, because you're because it was like this combination of like you're telling me that you feel left out, you feel left out, you're not even making fucking timing to like for me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And I remember that being like, I'm fucking sitting, we're on the phone, it was like three hours.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah, I I was on my way to get my ears pierced.

SPEAKER_04:

And like I knew you were so busy, but part of me is like bitch telling me that she fucking feels left out, she can get a fucking ears pierced, and I'll fucking do a recording. Like, that's how penny it was. And I just remember being like, you were just like, nah, I think I'm done. And I'm like, well, do you not want to fucking fight for this friendship?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I think you said you said, I don't know, I don't know how we come back from this. And I was like, phenomenal. My avoidant was like, yes, grabbed it. And I was like, look, Lorna, I just don't know how how we work this out, and you fucking lost it. You were like, and I was like, oh, oh, she's like, she's not trying to break up with me here. Like that that's not what's happening. And I was like, oh, okay, like, okay, this is different. I'm not used to this. I'm gonna go get my ears pierced and I'm gonna call you back.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I was just like, it was just so funny. I remember feeling like you're telling me that you feel left out, cool, let me show you. Because I have this, I don't know if it's like a neurodivergent thing, but like if you're not in front of me, I'm sorry. Yeah, you're not really in my head.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And that's like a trait that I really don't like about myself. But it's kind of just like I'm my head is already so full all of the time. And I'm sitting here going, my head's so full all the time. If you're not in front of me, I don't think about you, but Steph, I'm putting so much fucking effort in to think about you and make sure that we have this fucking phone call and like we fix this. And I'm like, so how do we go from here from like go from here? Because I remember I had to message you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_04:

Because you were like, I would have I would have left it. I decided I was leaving it. And I can feel that pull, and I'm like, cool, I'm gonna be the one here to message and and book the I remember booking the phone call like when are you free? Yeah, and when you were like, I don't know, and I just was like, you don't know? Yeah, like we can't come back from this. Are you fucking kidding?

SPEAKER_01:

Like, yeah, I think because like every other conversation I have ever had, like that, whether it was friendships or like there was one boyfriend who left me in the same way, that conversation ended with the friendship ending. And I was like, I already know how this goes. Like, I don't need to have this fucking conversation with you, I don't need to hear about it. If I walk first, you don't have the opportunity to hurt me. So I'm I'm out, I'm just gonna bail. Because this is what happens like we hang out, we're friends, blah blah blah. Something happens, you decide you don't like me anymore, and I don't need another one on that fucking pile. So I was like, if I bail, that can't happen. Yeah, and that was it, this and this is the thing, right? Is it's why it's important to be aware of those wounds. And I feel like that particular that particular argument, Barney, blubber's teeth. Bestie besty fight. It really shone a light on a lot of things that I did not realize.

SPEAKER_04:

I think it was just like uh literally all of the shadows and the belief systems and the patterns were like really shown, like it was just like highlighted, like spotlighted almost on all of our stuff. Because you're like this, because the other thing about our friendship is that we were a fast friendship.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, very fast, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Like we were, what do they call it? Like um, like love bombing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, in a way. Yeah, it's like the the lesbians, there's jokes about it. It's not me, there's jokes about it, but they like moved in after three months.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, like I remember seeing you in in a shadow alchemy call. Yeah, you were a like certification freak, I was a certification freak. I'm like, actually, you're pretty cool. We vibe. Next minute we're suddenly like best friends. Yeah, and the problem the the benefit of that is like cool, we've we've met this person, I feel like I've seen you in another lifetime. The the downside is I don't know all of your history and you don't know all of mine. So like when you're like, I feel left out, I'm like, What do you mean? What? And then like when you were telling me about your history, I'm like, oh, this fucking makes sense. Like I'm a pattern interrupter here. But your body is like, we've fucking seen this game over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Right. And for me, I'm just like the tryhard thing came out. I'm like, I'm fucking trying really hard at this fucking friendship, trying really hard at this business, I'm trying hard to be fucking present as a person, and I'm like going through something traumatic. Because like you even came, like the first time we actually met in person, though, I was like, not here, no, on this earth. Like she the first time we actually met, Shadow was in like my eldest one was in hospital.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

And she just had an accident.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So like even from then, I'm like, fuck, like, I I tried really hard to be present here on this earth, but it's like so it was just like highlighting so many things, and for you to just be like, peace out, motherfucker. That was also a thing for me because I tend to be the the person in the relationships where I'm like, oh, this isn't like terrible, like, let's just fucking fix it. It's like it's it's right.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, you're a bit of a dick.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm like, yeah, like everyone's got flawed. Like, let me fix it. So I tend to be more of that anxious attachment style of just like, cool, let's fucking fix this. Like, if we're gonna fix it, and you were just like, nah. And I was like, So you're just gonna fucking walk away.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna do.

SPEAKER_04:

And my little body was like, I've seen this game before. What am I gonna? And I had that choice of like, what am I actually gonna do about it? Can I actually go, no, this is not what we're gonna do. There is opportunity here because at the end of the day, it was like the end of the phone call, everybody was like Steph taking responsibility for her shit, me taking responsibility for my shit. We're like, wow, I didn't really fucking see that pattern, wow, I didn't really fucking see that shadow. Yeah, but that's what our friendship was, is like a this, and it still is, is like a mirror.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, definitely, and that's the point, right? Is when you get to the point where you can You've got fucking big bugs here. When you get to the point where you've got those types of friendships where you can have an open conversation, and I would not say that either of us were really regulated in that conversation. No, like we were, we thought we were, but we were not looking back. We were both quite emotional, we were both quite activated, but because of the work that we've done on ourselves and because we do know each other well, we were able to pull back from that. Like, I don't know about you, I can recognize most of the time, even if I think I am, I know I'm not. Like, yeah, so we were able to kind of recognize, yeah, okay, cool. This has actually been a really big misunderstanding on both of our parts. There's been some things that we've learned about ourselves, or the we we're revisiting these particular pieces that we thought that we dealt with, and now we're just dealing with them. I feel like we're dealing with them on the layer where it wasn't that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Like previously we dealt with it before, and the same thing happened, and it was the same pattern, and it was, you know, yeah, this friend is saying they don't want to be friends with you anymore, so it's you know, the two versus one kind of deal, blah blah blah, which is probably why my kids trigger the shit out of me when they leave each other out. And for you, it's like that avoidant or the um anxious rather, where a lot of the time you'll kind of, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, like you know, just like the chaser. Whereas I feel like in that moment I needed to be chased because I never had been before.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That you also kind of needed the chase to work. Yeah. Like to have to have like a solid person on the other end of it. Well, I could imagine there it was like you're the Angelo, but I'm a leopard and I find I'm not the And I'm not a great fucking run ass of lichen.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm like rather than me, yeah. No, but also like to like stand up for myself because even though the anxious attachment, I've always been like a little bit more like, ooh, try and be nice about it. And I just remember being like, I'm on the fucking phone with you. Yeah. Like I just needed that moment to be like, I have some thalls about me, you're fucking annoying the shit out of me. I love you so much, and if I did want to fucking do it, I wouldn't fucking be here.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Because even though like I have that anxious attachment, like if I'm done with somebody, like I'm done.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

But I was just like, Steph, you're actually hitting me right now.

SPEAKER_03:

You don't have a fucking choice.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm like, we're gonna literally like break up for for something that is actually not against each other, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's the thing, right? It was both of our shit playing out like parallel. But unfortunately, the wounds that we each had, it was just like a yeah, from both of us. And it wasn't it wasn't on purpose, but because our minds will try to make the other person wrong to prove that pattern again, so oh yep, I've seen this before, this is what happens, yep, that's what happened. Yep, I knew that's what would happen, blah blah blah. Yeah, that's what our minds were trying to do, and we were trying to make each other wrong, and I was trying to push her away because then I'm like, yep, there goes another one, of course that's what happens, blah blah blah. And then she goes, you know, yeah, that's just another fucking whatever, yeah. Person who's not supporting me, or person who doesn't see me, or whatever. And because we were able, well, Lorinda was able, I won't, I won't take her, I won't take the credit for that one. Lorinda was just like, hang on a minute, stop being a fuckhead, I'll stop being a fuckhead, and let's just talk this out. We were able to salvage things.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and like let's even like you talk about dysregulation. I feel like having sometimes having a conversation trying to be regulated is actually the wrong fucking thing. Yeah, right? Because if I didn't show emotion in that moment, yeah, like I literally just had this little cry and was just like a little cry. Yeah, just a little a little one. Well, you bitch is gonna get an ears pierced, and I'm like, fuck me. I can barely understand what she was saying. I was fucking heartbroken, but bitch is okay to get her ears pierced.

SPEAKER_01:

I wasn't.

SPEAKER_04:

Um, but like for me to show that emotion and to show you like that that you actually do mean a lot to me, yeah, I think was actually needed. And sometimes when we have these fights, like, fuck there's a big fly on you, hey. Yeah, having these fights and trying to always be regulated is not always like super beneficial. And also it's like fake.

SPEAKER_01:

Totally. And that's the point, right? Is that we want to be able to feel and show that emotion and also be able to apply our logical brain, and that's kind of the point of being regulated, is that you can do both at the same time rather than one or the other, because both have their place. And like you said, if you if you hadn't have gotten emotional in that moment, because you had said to me previously, like, I don't know how we move on from this, I don't know where we go, and then I just kind of spouted the same thing back like five, ten minutes later, that would have been it. That would have been it.

SPEAKER_04:

You're like, there's the door, yeah, there's the door giving me the opening, yeah. Yeah, and I think that's like that's when pendulation comes in. So pendulation is like coming into dysregulation and then like swinging it back out, and that's what the best thing about the conversation was is that we had those moments of dysregulation, and you would you were saying these things and I'm listening, and then that would trigger me into dysregulation, and then like you would be regulated and be like, actually, this is what this means, and like we would just kind of go off each other to have that, and yeah, it was a wild ride, everybody.

SPEAKER_01:

It was, and I feel like we were able to both kind of validate, but also be like, actually, that's your shit. That's not me, that's actually your shit. Yeah, I I can see how how you took that based off of that, but that is also not what I meant.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and I remember having to take responsibility because there was that opportunity that I got, and it was a really awesome moment, especially for my little try hard shadow, because I was like, Yeah, I didn't want these fucking bugs. Um I remember being like, Oh, I actually got something, and I yeah, I did try hard everybody, but like it didn't feel as hard as normal. And because you it wasn't really a celebration moment, but I didn't fucking say anything. And it was like fucking six months later when we had this buy.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And it's like one of those things that I'm actually really great at is holding grudges every time. I can't remember what I fucking had for breakfast yesterday until you June of 2023 when Matt pissed me off.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. It's a great trade.

SPEAKER_04:

Terrible. I can't remember where you left your fucking keys, but I remember you being like, that was six months ago, and I'm like, yeah. Yeah. But the other thing is I was like, I don't didn't know how to talk to you about that. But like we needed to have that rupture. Yes. So now I'm like, I mean, I don't think we've really had anything successful.

SPEAKER_01:

No, because I think I think we I you know what I think it is with ruptures is that there's this thing that if you you always have to get along, and if you have a fight like that, that it means that's it, it's never gonna be the same, it's all over and done with, yada yah. And I think that this is a really beautiful example of where ruptures can actually strengthen a friendship. Because I remember once everything was all good and we'd spoken that we were like, oh wow, this feels really good again. Like, I actually want to like come and talk to you again, and I feel like I can say things to you again, and this doesn't feel weird because it'd been feeling weird for a while, obviously. Like it doesn't just blow up all of a sudden, it blows up because of a multitude of micro moments that weren't addressed then. And that does happen because again, we neither of us like conflict at all. We will try and avoid it like the plague, and also the micro moments don't feel like a big deal in the moment a lot of the time, so we let them slide and we go, you know what, it wasn't that big a deal, like they're a good person, blah blah blah. I think this happens a lot in relationships, yeah, friendships with your kids, all of the things where you know, I love that person though, they're a great person, and you hear people say that all the time, right? Like if they've had an argument with their partner, yeah, and their partner's done something really fucking shitty, and they'll sit there and go, but they're a good person. Yeah, you know, good people do bad things, like and good people can do shitty things, and bad people can do good things, and it's one of those moments where you go, Yeah, they're a good person, and in that moment, they were a fucking douchebag.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, because everyone has that part.

SPEAKER_01:

Thousand percent. I can be a douchebag, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

You can. But the thing is, this is something that I heard this year as well, is like when you look at your friendships, if something bad happens in your life or like something's happening, which friendship do you turn to? Do you turn to the one that doesn't have any rupt hasn't ever had any ruptures or the one that has? Because the one that has ruptures before, you know that they can repair.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04:

So like for us, we're kind of like, okay, cool, if something does come up, we both know that we can actually repair. Yes. Because there's evidence now. Yes. Where if you don't have ruptures in your relationship and something big comes up, you're like, fuck, I don't know if we can come back from this.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think if it were to happen again, which it might, we would be a lot quicker to come together and be like, okay, what's going on? Yeah, what's happened? Because again, it's that evidence of oh, we can actually have these discussions and it's not the end of the world, it's just a discussion. And this is again the same in relationships where if you're I don't think it's healthy to always be having ruptures. No, no, no, obviously, and to like I I I'm a big fan of the saying, um, you can only say sorry so many times before it stops sounding like I'm sorry, and it starts sounding more like I know that I'm doing this thing and I'm not gonna stop. Yeah, but it is healthy, and this is in any relationship. This is with your partner, with your parents, with your kids, with your friends, with anybody, that there needs to be both. You can't have the light without the dark, you can't have the dark without the light. It's just the way that it goes. And yeah, we both know that if shit goes down, whether it's between us or in our lives or whatever, we know that it can be held, yeah, and that we've got that deeper level of respect for each other. Plus, you know, we got to we got to break patterns alongside each other, which was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Nice little parallel pattern interrupt.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it was wild. And I think like there's actually we've had a lot of big things happen in our lives since then, not with each other, but just outside of them. And it just allowed us to go, cool, we can actually be here for you, or like knowing when the other person doesn't have as much capacity. And I feel like for me, friendships has always been a really, really hard thing to navigate because like, let's be real, when you get into a relationship, you kind of know why you're there. Right? You like that person, maybe you just want to have sex with that person, up to you.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you men?

SPEAKER_04:

But like you have a you have a reason where friendships, you're kind of like, oh, yeah. Like, how are we gonna do this? What does this dance look like? Uh, do we have and then the other thing is do we have the same values in our parenting? Do we have enough like similarities that you know it's not completely against it? Like, can we handle each other's differences? Like, friendships is something that I've always felt really hard to navigate. And this is probably being one of the biggest ruptures I've had in a friendship where it has had a repair, like we've had.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

So even in that moment, I'm like, cool, there is a chance that she will walk away. And I have to trust that if that's what happens, that that's what happens. Like, I feel like friendship breaks up uh not talked about enough, even though they're one of the heart, most heartbreaking things.

SPEAKER_01:

A thousand percent. A thousand percent.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I feel like you just don't see it coming as as much, and it feels less if you break up with a partner, generally it's for a reason, right? Like, you know, things are and you can't be with somebody that you don't share values with, and you can't be with somebody who it doesn't feel good with, and or you know, there's something obviously like a massive, like they've cheated on you, or something like that's happened. Whereas with friendships, I feel like it it's very rarely like that. Yeah. So I don't don't get me wrong, so there's a lot of toxic bitches out there, but sometimes it's just yeah, one of those moments it gets blown out of proportion because everybody's assuming what the other person means based off of their own views of the world. But also yeah, it's this piece of like, well, why are we friends? Especially long distance, right? Like bearing in mind we'd met once for about 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_04:

And I wasn't here.

SPEAKER_01:

No, you were on a different planet. Um, so yeah, it's it's that thing of it was even easier. It's not like we had a bunch of shared friends or we, you know, our kids were friends or anything like that. There were no ties. There was no reason to, except for the podcast, that was the only thing.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And that could have very easily been like, we'll stop, blah, blah, blah. And I feel like that even in itself, because there weren't the ties, there wasn't that forced, oh, we may as well just we'll just sweep it under the rug because we have to be friends because you know, our partners are friends, or because we've been friends for 30 years or whatever. So it kind of even means more.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It was literally a choice.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and we weren't even in like because our container had finished, and we haven't really we haven't been in a container together since. Like we only have like, well, not even like because you don't come on the calls as much anymore. Like, we don't have any thing where we're like, we're gonna probably cross paths. So yeah. And I also feel like for me, like looking at it now as well, like being in the industry that we are, and I feel like this year we've really taken a step back and tried to untie a lot of beliefs. Like, I think being in containers where it's business, you kind of have like these beliefs of like, yeah, like all about collaboration, but there is that underlying piece of competition. Yeah, and like because our businesses at one stage were actually very similar, yes. It was like this weird, like, I can see you're going on this path, and I'm going, um I'm going on a different path, but we're still comparing, even though we don't need to compare because we're not actually in competition. But the way that the industry works is like, yeah, if you're making more money, then you're a better person. Yeah, yeah. That's how it was.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I mean that's that's what it's been like our entire lives, right? Like we compare ourselves to other people, how well are we doing in comparison to that person rather than how well am I doing in comparison to how I was doing this time last year? Because that's really the only gauge. But yeah, we our businesses kind of were doing these and then they branched off where you know the render went more into like support coaching and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04:

Whereas I kind of stayed on the same no, but you just like really niche down. Like you went on that path and I went over here, and yeah. A lot of it was as well of like why, like why even with lives, right? Like you have an idea from your conditioning of how life should look, right? You you get the house, you get the partner, you get the kids. It's also very similar in business, right? Like you like you do one-to-one coaching and you do group coaching and you do this, where I'm like, cool, I'm doing making money different way, like I'm supporting in a certification, I'm running retreats, and I'm now not doing group programs where you're like, okay, I'm doing this huge, big, beautiful, like freaking mastermind thing, and like our businesses can do really well in different avenues.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, yeah. I think it was just like you said, it was a big year for both of us personally, like a lot of shit went down, yeah. For both of us, just a lot of really, really hard things, and I think it's really easy to get stuck in your own little world when those sorts of things happen and be like, this is really, really hard for me right now. And yeah, just just checking in and being like, okay, am I still showing up for people? Bearing in mind as well that you don't always have to, like, if if you've got shit going, and unfortunately, we both did have things going on at the same time. Yeah. Um, so it was just a lot for everybody involved, and it was it was circumstantial, and that's the thing, is it just because something like that happens, it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to, you know, end the friendship. Like, can you be adult enough to go and have a conversation about something that's been bothering you? And it was just different things that just it compounded. And this, I think, is a really fucking great example of just go and have the conversation because it would have been so much easier if you just come to me and said, Steph, you're being a bit of a bitch about this, and I go, huh. Probably piss me off for a couple of days and then I come back, you know what, you're right. Like, yep, okay, cool. I can see, I can see how you feel that. Yep, I will check myself.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, but even that, right, like because both of us were so fucking defensive at the start. So it's kind of just like, yes, part of the reason why we got to that point was we took the whole take responsibility shit too wet way too fucking far.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

But there is still a level of responsibility that you need to have in those conversations of like, cool, where was I actually playing into this? Well, I'm playing into comparison. I'm playing into the tryhard. I'm also playing into like even looking at it now, like fear of my fucking abandon, or actually both of us have fucking abandonment wounds. We fucking felt felt that in that conversation. Because, like I mentioned at the start, like if I'm not looking at somebody, I have that terrible trait of like you, you, yeah, I just forget about you. But I definitely was like, not that our friendship is hard at all, but just being very mindful that because we do have a long-distance friendship, that I do need to put in more brain effort to think about things. Yeah. So then it was like, fuck, dude, like I didn't do enough, even though I felt like I was, you know, trying to really show up and try to be really present because like my trauma response tends to just be like disassociation.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And like after going through a lot of things, I was just like, cool, I can feel myself going into that, but I do have people that I want to know that they feel love. And that was even like my own projection of that wound. I know how it feels to be abandoned, so I'm gonna put in effort. And then when you're like, I feel left out, I'm like, but I just fucking did all of this shit. Like I'm trying.

SPEAKER_01:

And I think that that's also even that is a really good example because I speak to clients about this all the time where they'll say, But I'm putting in effort, and I go, Okay, cool. To you, you're putting in effort, but to me, I may not I may not see that, or I may need it in a different way. Like rather than you know, you like checking in, maybe I need something different to that. Yeah, like I need you to just tell me like every now and again you send me really nice messages, like, you know, you're handling this really well, and I'm like, I think. Um, whereas maybe you need more of that check-in, right? And so we do revert back to what we would need in that moment. Yeah, being like, okay, cool, I'm showing that person that I love them, I'm checking in with them, I'm doing all the things, and then they come back and say, You're not doing enough. And you're like, Well, what? Like, what do you mean I'm not doing enough? And this is again one of those moments where we really need to. I was speaking to a client about this the other day, right? She's like, I'm having this same conversation over and over and over again with my partner, and it's just not going anywhere. I was like, okay, tell me a little bit about it. And she was like, I just feel like I'm not getting enough help. I'm like, that is so fucking vague. Like, so vague. It is so top level. Like, I'm not getting enough help. Great. In what circumstances? Can you give me some examples? She gave me some examples. I'm like, right, so the next time that this happens, that is a micro moment that you want to really dig in on. Because instead of saying, like, you're not checking in with me enough, saying, I actually need you to check in with me in this certain way.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? Because then it's like, this is what I need. And then you are well within your rights to say, you know what, Steph, I can't do that for you right now. And this is that piece of really owning our needs, owning what we want. And this takes fucking practice because I mean, clearly, we didn't do it very well in this moment.

SPEAKER_04:

Can I also add on to like long distance? Yes. Because there's not many things.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I want you to show up at my doorstep with flowers.$3,000 later.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, yeah. So it's just navigating how do you do that in a long-distance friendship? How can you actually say these things? Yeah. And how can you like repair from like what is actually needed? Like the repair here was honestly just fucking listening. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_04:

A lot of it was just like, cool, we actually do, like in our friendship, we can't only just podcast. Because that was something that like it was all business. It was all business. And we were definitely using that, I feel like, as an escape from the fucking reality that we were living, which meant that everything was tied in that. We're like, cool, we it has to work, it has to be created. Like, you know, we're you've got heaps of clients, I'm doing different things as well. Like, yeah. So the only tie that we had was the podcast. And I'm like, wait a second, but we're not getting a chance to be friends outside of work.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And I think it it got to I do tend to when things get hard, I tend to knuckle down where it doesn't feel hard. And business did not feel hard in that moment. It felt like, you know, I was like if business was booming, it felt easy. Whereas my personal life felt a bit, you know, not great. So I would avoid this thing by going all in over here.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And yeah, that's definitely the point it got to, where I was telling myself, I'm too busy, I'm too busy, I don't have time, I don't have time, I don't have time, I don't have time. And Lorinda's like, what the fuck, man? So I just want to catch up with you, I just want to see how you're going. And I'm like, eh, like it was, and again, because remembering that we were also pissy with each other along this way, I was like, I don't have the time for you right now. But I don't really want to talk to you right now. Like, we do what we have to and then we go do the thing. But it was it was avoiding the fact that it was feeling uncomfortable, that it wasn't feeling as easy, and if we just had a fucking conversation about it, yeah, it probably wouldn't have ended up taking like a month to I think it was about that.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it felt longer though.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it felt like a really long time because we were like, oh, let's let's organize times and like neither of us could do. Um we tried to book it in a couple of times, but yeah, we had to cancel it. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of lots of pieces here. Yeah. But it is those things of you know it's it's that whole the grass is greener where you water it, right?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And people love to look at relationships and go, oh well, they're so lucky. Very rarely.

SPEAKER_04:

My also thought was like, don't water it too much because then it will drown.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh.

SPEAKER_04:

So the anxious attachment, like, just constantly tries to water the grass, it doesn't actually need any more fucking water.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, maybe, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

You seem to pull back a little bit dull.

SPEAKER_01:

Go go think about yourself, go feel your own cup.

SPEAKER_04:

Oh, anxious versus avoidance. So funny.

SPEAKER_01:

It's well when I like I did a little reading about that last year when I was doing my group program, and it is the worst combination to have in a relationship. It's the worst. If you don't have one secure person in there, you're it can it can get a little bit uh hairy. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But we got there in the end, and now I feel like we're kind of moving more towards that secure space where it's yeah, you know, yeah, if things are if things are bothering us, we can bring them up.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And I also think like we've done a lot of work. I remember you asking me a couple of it was maybe a month ago, you're like, Do you still have this issue? Because you wanted to share a celebration or something. And I'm like, and it was around business. And I was like, No, I'm good now.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Do you have the do you can you can you take that on board right now?

SPEAKER_04:

And I'm like, yeah, it's fine. And so it's like not just doing the work in a relationship or a friendship, it's kind of like cool, where can I work on my own capacity to hold my friend and also to be held by my friend? Because that's something that we we're like, oh yeah, I'll create more capacity to hold others when sometimes it's actually the you actually need capacity to to be held.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And I don't know, like I love you dearly, but you're not really great at that.

SPEAKER_01:

No, I'm not. I'm not, and that's that's the thing, right? Is that then we go to other people for our needs and we go, they're not meeting my needs.

SPEAKER_04:

It's like Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Hun, when was the last time you worked out?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, okay, maybe I need to maybe I need to step up a little bit. And then when you are able to meet those needs, I feel like you are in a much more grounded space to be able to ask for what you do need from friendships, but it's also a lot less unrealistic where you're going to be like, I need this one person to meet every single one of my needs, because this is another thing, right? Where people like, but my partner doesn't do XYZ. I'm like, great, go find a friend who does. And they're like, What do you mean? Like they should they should meet every single need. Why? Like, why do they have to meet every single? That's putting all your eggs in one basket, my friend. Like, my husband meets a lot of my needs, but there's a few things that he just does not do well. And I'm like, I understand that you cannot do that. Yeah, I'm not gonna make you a bad person for that. I'm just gonna go, I will go and do that with somebody else. Like, I will go and celebrate that thing with somebody else. I will have that conversation with somebody else. Like, he doesn't love these sorts of conversations. If I ask him, like, do you have capacity for something? He's like, Stop fucking speaking to me like I'm one of your clients, Steph. Like, just what do you need? I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_04:

It just reminds me like soccer field, like you've got the the striker and then the goalkeeper, like the goalie. Yeah, you're not gonna ask the striker to be the fucking goalkeeper.

SPEAKER_01:

No, they're gonna be terrible at it. Absolutely terrible. And yeah, he's a wonderful man, you're a wonderful friend, but there's also things that I would not come to you for. That's why we've got like that's why we have I hope those things you don't come to be for. Yeah, yeah, that would be really weird. But it is that thing of like if you are trying to make one person be everything and you're not meeting those needs for yourself. Like, we need to just be a little bit more aware of what we're asking for, if it's even realistic, how we're trying to meet that need, and if that person is even capable of doing it, and that does not make them a bad person, does not mean that they're like it doesn't mean that they you can't be friends with them because they can't, you know, they don't share absolutely every single value. It's just like if you don't share my value in parenting, great. We just don't talk about parenting.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, I talk it also opens up perspectives because not one person's gonna be right about everything, right? Because you like we're in different parenting stages, yeah, very much so, yeah. Yeah, and so there's gonna be things where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna do it this way, but I'm gonna share it with you. So then when your kids are teenagers, you'll be like, Okay, so that didn't fucking work for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, I will have forgotten about that, let's be real. But yeah, it is it is that piece of going just because we I mean we've got one kid that's yeah, similar age. Yeah, similar age, but even they're very different. Oh, yeah, very different. And it is that I think uh getting used to being able to disagree or not necessarily doing things the same way, and that doesn't make either of us wrong. I think one thing that Lorinda and I are very big on, I know I certainly am, is I do what works for my children in my household. I don't subscribe to everybody else who shoulds. I don't subscribe to well, you should do this, you shouldn't be doing that, because honestly, you'd be a basket case, and so many of my clients are.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, I should be doing this and I shouldn't be doing that. I'm like, who told you that? Like, oh, I followed this person on Instagram. Are you fucking kidding me? Like, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and also like I think that's what we need to remember is like social media is just like a highlight reel. Like they might share, they might be like, oh yeah, I'm sharing this, but they've probably already moved through it, and they're sharing you those other parts, and like something that like for me, I had to unfollow a bunch of mums because one of them had a baby. I remember she was a business owner, she had a baby, and she's like, I don't understand why people need to take time off to have a baby. And I'm like, You've got a four-week hold. You literally told me a week ago on your in-story that you fucking got annie. Yeah, right? Like, yeah, so like we don't see all the details, and the other thing is like uh for that particular instance, her husband she doesn't actually need to work, yeah. Yeah, like so we have to remember that everyone's situations are so different, yes, and there's things that we don't know, and each child is so different, like everyone is so different.

SPEAKER_01:

So, why are we raising our children to be the same and then trying to compare and it just I actually think it makes you a better parent if you can push past the shoulds and think what is working really well for my kids because I mean, even in terms of things like time-ins, have you heard of that instead of timeouts? If I try and do that with my middle kid, he will literally throw things at me. He gets so angry if we try and stay in the room. And if I'm going off social media or what you know, like Lorinda says to me that I should be doing, not that she does, or like what that person over there is telling me that I should be doing, I would actually be doing my child a disservice because I am not listening to what he is trying to tell me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's the same thing in terms of friendships, like, oh, we should be doing this, we shouldn't be doing that. If they're a good friend, then they should do this, you should be checking in, you shouldn't be going months and months without talking or whatever, not that we do. But like then I've also got very, very good friends who I've been friends with for 30 fucking years.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Who I'll talk to the mayor once every four to six months.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And we'll just have a chat and we'll chat for like three hours.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Like some weeks we talk more than others, and some weeks we're like, you know, and I'm just in the middle of something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, I'm busy. I know you're busy over there. How are you? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Especially since the rupture have just been like, hey, just checking in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Haven't heard from you in a while.

SPEAKER_04:

You good over there? Like, no. You could no. Okay, great. I don't drink send alcohol.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But yes, I think it's it is really important to to realize that it is okay to have those ruptures, it's okay to disagree, it's okay to not have the same perspectives. That is all okay. It doesn't make you a bad person, it doesn't make you wrong me right or vice versa. And to if you can get good at being able to move through those things or even say, you know what, I actually really don't agree with what you're saying. I don't like I'd love to have a conversation because I'd love to hear your perspective about it, because I'm always open to perspectives. And sometimes we've had those conversations and Lorinda says something, I'm like, you know what? Actually, I never thought about it that way. That's that's a really good way to think about it. Maybe you have changed my mind here. But that we can have those adult conversations rather than going, you're wrong, I'm right. I'm gonna go bitch to this person over here, they're telling me that I'm right because they're getting my side of the story. You're bitching to this person over here, they're telling you that you're right, like bringing all these other people into it. What if it's actually okay that we don't agree on everything? Yeah, and that we handle things differently.

SPEAKER_04:

Okay, I guess from our kneeling breakup, what was your big lesson?

SPEAKER_01:

We have the hard conversation a lot early on, but also this is a really, really great example of how patterns that you've run your entire life, you will continue to see them until you break them. And you will continue to reaffirm that pattern until something comes along that where you see it in the moment and you manage to break it in the moment. And I didn't necessarily Lorinda kind of did that for me, but but it is really easy to. I was aware of this, by the way. I was aware of this wound. It was not new to me. I I had moved through it before at a different level. But that if you're able to see those things in the moment, that's the work.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think. And it can happen, it happens to all of us no matter where you are in your journey. It'll probably come back up again, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

What was your lesson?

SPEAKER_04:

Sometimes you gotta stop taking so much fucking responsibility. Yeah, like I I really feel like we took that too far of just being like, This is my own wound, yeah, yeah, cool, but the other person is not aware that they're pressing on it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Like, I did not know.

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, and I I don't think I ever blamed you for that either. Like, again, because we are in that position where we can be self-aware about it and go, like, I understand that you did not know that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, but yeah, when we are sitting there taking over responsibility, like I could have sat there and gone, you know what, actually, this is my shit because that's my wound. And if I had never told Lorinda, she would have never known.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, and we wouldn't have changed any actions, I wouldn't have changed anything that I've said or like been even aware of it, or even like validate you. I feel like there was a lot of points where both of us needed a lot of validation, yeah, because we hadn't received that from people in our past. But like, if because we were taking so much responsibility and we weren't talking about it, then it was like the resentment was building and building and building until it was just like I can't actually fucking take anymore.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And so, like taking that over responsibility and not saying anything caused a bigger rupture.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I feel like it's that that responsibility, and I can do it on my own. I'm just gonna work through this over here on my own because it's my shit. Yeah. When it wasn't, it was our shit, but it was also our shit. Yeah, and so I I think that's another big piece as well, is it sometimes you do need sometimes? There's a time and a place to go away and work it out on your own, and sometimes there's a time and a place to bring it into the friendship, the space, the relationship, or whatever, and say, I actually need your help with this because you are actually pressing on something that you weren't aware of. I'm not blaming you for pressing on it, but you are pressing on it, yeah. And so let's talk about it. And it I think it's yet one of those pieces of we're not responsible for other people's triggers. But in saying that for a healthy friendship, relationship, whatever, if you know that that's a trigger, don't be a digging about it. Exactly. Like, don't purposefully say something that's going to upset somebody just because you know it's there.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Communication. Yeah. It's a good one.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, so that was our near friendship breakup. Yeah. Um, behind the scenes of the podcast, which is I feel like having that rapture also allowed us to change things eventually.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_04:

With the podcast and where we wanted to go with it, and like really look at like what like what and who we are in regards to this podcast and our own businesses and our friendship. And yeah, I think it definitely needed to happen. Did it need to happen the way it did? Probably not. Um maybe it did though.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe it did. Because again, we did get to break some shit in the in the interim.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, lots of tears. I think I cried a little bit. A little bit. A little bit. Yeah. But yeah, I we really hope that you loved this episode because I feel like this is happening to me a lot more than people realize, and friendship breakups are actually really, really hard. And even the potential, like the grief that can come from that, like to know for those few weeks that maybe our friendship was gonna end was a big piece in itself, and grief can come from friendships as well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_04:

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SPEAKER_01:

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SPEAKER_01:

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