The Shadow Diaries
Real women - slightly unhinged - get real about the daily chaos of motherhood, business, relationships and everything that comes from life. From airing out the dirty laundry to actually washing it, we dive into the messy, beautiful, and hilarious reality of navigating life.
The Shadow Diaries
How Being 'Too Busy' Is Actually Your Biggest Block to Getting What You Want - With Cinda Brandham
Ever feel like you're constantly exhausted but somehow never getting ahead? This week, Cinder shares how she went from killing herself in corporate (literally first in, last out every day) to working 15 hours a week - and somehow doing better than ever.
We get into the real shit about why we stay so fucking busy all the time. Spoiler: it's not because we need to be. Through shadow work, Cinder discovered that her need to be the hardest worker in the room was actually about proving she was enough - and it was keeping her stuck in patterns that looked like success but felt like prison.
We talk about:
- Why posting about leaving the office at 7pm used to feel like a flex (and why it makes her cringe now)
- The moment she realized being "busy" was just fancy procrastination
- How shadow work showed her that 80% of what she was doing was just... noise
- That voice in your head that says you need to work harder to be worthy (and why it's lying)
- What actually happens when you stop trying to prove yourself through exhaustion
- The difference between actually working hard vs performing "hard work" for validation
- Why doing less isn't lazy - it's just not being controlled by your shadows anymore
This one's for anyone who's tired of the hustle culture bullshit but doesn't know how to stop. For the women who've been taught that their worth comes from how much they can handle. For anyone who suspects there's another way but can't quite see it yet.
Real talk about shadow work, breaking patterns, and creating a life that doesn't require you to burn out to feel successful.
Reach out to us on Instagram!
Steph is here and Lurinda is here.
This can be a space where you learn and receive real women, real stories, real shadows.
SPEAKER_01:This is the shadow diaries, and your story starts now. Welcome back to another episode of the Shadow Diaries. And today I am joined by a guest. We have got Cinder Brandham with us. She is a friend of mine, but she is also an absolute fucking powerhouse who has gone from super high-powered career, super successful, like managing in her early 20s, doing all of the things super successful on paper, to effectively burning that all to the ground and then moving into that slow entrepreneur life. However, she has built it in such a way that is still allowing her to make at least as much money as she was when she was working insane insane weeks. And I think that this is such an important conversation to have for our high achievers because we we live in a society where it's more more more hustle, hustle, hustle, and you have to work hard to make the money. But Cinder is the exact opposite of that, but she is still earning and she's living her life by her design. She's doing she's living life on her terms, and I think it's a really fun, important conversation to have. So Cinder, can you please introduce yourself a little bit better?
SPEAKER_02:Hello, I'm Lucinda. Cinder, everyone calls me Cinder though, so around friendship channels. So I'm um a shadow work coach also, and I also have two children. We also my partner runs a building company. Um and so yeah, like Eva was saying, I've literally kind of swung the opposite way. I was very much like a high achiever. Um I don't want to say I was a slave to the corporate world, but I was technically my own slave to the corporate world. And from the lens of they weren't making me work harder, that was like for me. I genuinely thought, you know, being a manager at 20, and every single person that like I led, my team was all older than that. And to be honest, I found that quite triggering. So I felt in order to prove myself, I had to work longer days. So I was when like I was always the first one there, I was always the last one there. Um, and I just like had such an identity wrapped, it was like the ego identity wrapped up in status of success, um, and busyness, and you know, achieving, which is like us high achievers. And then yeah, I kind of went through this journey. I I had two businesses at one point, I actually only let that one go. Oh my god, a second business September last year. Um and I had kids like just after I get got out of the corporate world, and it's kind of been a journey of like unraveling and like figuring out what I actually want in life while still achieving, because I'm definitely always gonna be an ambitious girl, I'm always gonna be a high achiever, and we can just like rip that out of us. Um but doing it in a way where life actually just feels really, really fulfilling, and exactly what you said, creating a life that's completely on my terms, which I've had to again like slowly shed and let go a lot of those like masks that society has set and identities that is typical success, right? Like the busyness, the constant go, even like the having of things and like the you know, the appearance from the lens of oh you've got the car, you've got the house, you've got I don't know, the white picket fence, the you know, your even like things like I used to post on Instagram that I was um when I was in the office leaving at seven, and I thought like that was success, and I look at that now and I'm like I'm like actually uninspired by anyone that does that. Like do you know what I mean? And like it's all proving energy. So yeah, it's been very much this yeah, unraveling, and that's what we're here to chat about today.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I love that, and yeah, I think that there is I mean, we get those accolades, right, when we are achieving, when we are successful, when we get the promotion, we get the house, we have the kids, we get the new whatever. People are jealous of us, they're envious of us, and they are giving us that pat on the head saying, You're a good member of society, and it's so easy to fall into that good girl persona who just does what people expect, who is looking for that external validation, who is looking for that constant you're on the right track because you're doing XYZ, and so then we go into what you're doing now, which is obviously just completely fucking shattered the patriarchy in that regard, where it's you have to work a million hours a week in order to earn money, like you know, if you're a mother, then you have to, you know, you're either a mother or you're a worker, like you can't have both at the same time. I think that people say that all the time. Things like you you can be you can be everything, but not all at the same time. And I'm like, I don't actually fucking believe that. And I think for you, the biggest piece here is not that you are not a hard worker, not that you don't hustle when you need to, not that you don't like you don't do things anymore, it's that you are extremely intentional and purposeful about how you spend your time. And I think that's what people miss.
SPEAKER_02:100% I was thinking about this the other day, and I was like, you know, it's funny because people literally wouldn't think I work hard, but I'd be like, put me in a room with you, and I'll easily outwork you. Like, and it's not from the lens of time, this is the problem, where we keep thinking time and busyness, it is about intentionality and it's about structure and it's about execution, and like even in the journey of becoming like you know, I only work three days per week, and like two of them I have to pick up my girls from three uh uh at 3 p.m. Um, and I've learned how okay, how can I still do what I was doing before while I still have capacity to grow, but do it actually in you know those 15 hours. And it's funny because I'm not actually doing any less. I'm just not wasting my time and I'm not self-sabotaging, and I'm not staying busy doing like non-needle movers and like sitting at my desk tweaking in Canberra for 50 million hours, and like you know, feeling my own ego thinking that I'm busy, when none of it was really moving me forward, right? It was it's procrastination, but in a way that you're not dwindling your fingers, you're pretending you're busy, and like deep down, it's like you know it. You know if you're listening and you do this, and yeah, so that was one of the biggest things to me was like, yes, I've worked on the sabotager and we'll probably talk about that more um shortly, but like bringing in a lot of intentionality, and the biggest thing was like actually knowing what is required to move my business forward, when I genuinely do not think a lot of people even have asked that question, right? Like, what do you need to do weekly um or daily? I kind of do mine weekly to move your business forward, and like what are those needle-moving tasks? Like, you know, posting content, email marketing, um like ads, for example, um, launching your campaigns, like keeping on top of like everything that goes into a campaign, like they're really your needle-moving tasks that are going to grow your business, get you more clients, get you more customers, um, get you more revenue, which is what you need to actually have a business, right? Um, and like it's even that concept there too. Like, people think having a business is staying busy, but it's like, no, you're not a charity. You're actually not a charity, and you need to be working on making money and like growing a business. Like at the end of the day, you know, we all want to be paid, even if we're in salaries, like that's like you're getting paid, right? You're doing a job. Um, and so you're really knowing like what is required every single week, and I never let it drop, ever. And that was actually one of the biggest shifts, obviously with clearing sabotage, but it was like getting really clear, so then I wasn't doing things from a space of shadow, of oh my god, I've got to do this because I'm in scarcity right now. I'm like, no, I know I need to send I only send two emails a week, which probably would be a lot for some people, right? But it's like if I was to go send a third one and it wasn't coming from this place of I've really good I've got a really good story to tell, I know that that is coming from sabotage, it's coming from scarcity and lack of oh my god, my sales have dipped, so now I'm gonna send another email so I can get some more money, or you know, it's coming from a really like shadowy place and to try and feel enough, to try and feel the wound, right? And so that never comes out. I don't go, oh I'm gonna post three pieces of content now because content one didn't perform well. It's just like it just is, and it's funny, right? Because you have the beliefs there of like I don't need to do more to create to have more. That actually is the reality, that is my reality. Like, I can do the two emails a week, post daily content, um, and grow every single week.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about the clearing of sabotage because I feel like this is the big piece, right? Where we can we can listen to you saying these things if you're a business owner, if you're a parent, if you're in your career, whatever, like this applies across the board. What were you doing that was sabotaging the shit out of you that on the surface looked like you were actually working hard, you were doing the things that you should be doing, and how did you change that? Because this is obviously such an ingrained belief of society, it's a it's a at a societal level, it is not individual levels. You obviously hold a very different view than most people here. So, how did you bust out of that and how did you clear that sabotage? How did you call yourself on it? How did you say disciplined to move that sabotage? Because that's so fucking hard.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and you know, the biggest thing with like this whole working hard, it was this pattern. And I remember I caught it. I caught it even with and like I'd work with coaches, I've worked, I've been in coaching spaces for ages now. I self-caught this by coaching myself by on a voice note. I was driving the car, I put my phone down and just voice note it to myself, so it's very much like in that subconscious, voice noting, pretending I was my own client, and I caught it. So I was like every if the biggest thing was I made small problems of things that were literally not even a problem, they actually weren't a problem. I could easily find a solution, but I love to bask in it, and I would take you know, I remember an example was we ran out of the candles. I used to my whole other e-commerce business was like candles and crystals, and I used to make the candles, and we ran out of jars. And that's obviously a problem when I'm selling, like I was making like a hundred a week, and I it is a problem, right? But I could have easily found a different jar. It was a white jar. It actually, like, honestly, there's so many manufacturers, there's actually some down the road in the Gulf Coast and stuff, like, but to me, I just I gasped in it and I was like, oh my god, and I made this big deal to my partner, and my partner's like, Have you started looking for jars yet? And I was like, No. And then I kept just basking in it, talking about it, and like making it was this big problem because it made me feel more successful to then climb. But I acted like it was this, and this is obviously unconscious, right, to climb back to the top to soothe myself of like, oh, I'm so successful. I then found the solution, I had these big problems. But what was that doing constantly slowing me down because yes, I caught it in that area, but it was literally happening, happening everywhere, and it was this massive moment of wow, I always choose the hard path. Two situations could be presenting, and I would be so blind to the easy option, so blind. I remember even there was this was at the exact same time. I had um we were launching a new candle collection, and I wanted to get 10 people to smell the candle on camera. And like I already worked at Performances. I already had a lot of my private clients in my coaching also bought my products and like lived in Brisbane. And I remember I put up this massive campaign, and then everyone had to send in their emails, and then I screened them all, and then I individually had to get their addresses, and then I packed up the candles and I sent them out. I had to wait like four weeks now to get these videos, follow videos up, and I was like, why didn't I just send it to the people I already knew who could execute quickly? Right there, I've wasted all this time screening people, and I was like, because you literally believe you need to work harder to make money, and working hard is what makes success, and all these patterns are just validating that as true. They're literally just validating it as true, and to be honest, that was one of the biggest shifts for me. And what I did was um I did do hypnosis, right? Around like going to because that's what I also do, shadow work and hypnosis, it's with like an unwalking session, and I can just do that on myself. And I do did I did do that with the founder who created that modality, but did I work on those beliefs? I'm not sure. Um did I or did I do that myself? But honestly, even just having the awareness of that's the root, right? Like I needed to work harder to make money, and like also why was that to feel good enough. So I knew that I got a lot of my work and feeling successful from creating harder paths. So that was like a lot of the awareness in that sense. But one of the biggest shifts for me was like catching myself in the pattern when I would go to choose the harder path and pause and go, can this be done an easier way? And sometimes I would sit there for five minutes, but I always seeked to find an easier way. And no joke, 100 99% of the time there was always an easier way. So you can imagine how much time when you think about it, if you're choosing a harder way to do everything, because that pattern is in every part of your life, the way you're doing the washing, the way you're doing your groceries. Like, why are people going to the grocery shop daily? I don't know. That is honestly blows my mind. And then they're like, I don't have time because you drove to the grocery shop and it probably took you an hour and then you did your shopping, like when you could have just gone. You know what I mean? It's little things like that. Like, um, why are you ironing every piece of food? Like why why are you picking up your vacuum every single day? I genuinely do not think your vacu your house needs to be vacuumed every single day. Like that's even a bit of the perfectionist, and then but the perfectionist, the perfectionism still comes from wanting to feel good enough. Do you know what I mean? When I have a clean house, I am good enough. When I folded my washing every single day, I am good enough, right? Um, so it really was having awareness of that pattern and questioning it every single time around am I choosing the harder path or am I choosing the easier and I'm gonna take that easier path? But what did this do to my own brain? I literally created all this evidence because it was right in front of me, and this is what I mean like the evidence normally is in front of you, you just can't see because you're literally blinded by your own shit. Yeah, so I started creating the evidence through those daily micro actions of choosing the easier path, choosing the easier way, that I was like, wow, it actually can be this easy.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I feel like yeah, like this can even be applied to motherhood because how often do you hear people say it's so hard, it's so hard, it's so hard, it's so hard. And then I'll start speaking because I obviously work with mums predominantly, it's my main my main client base, and they'll say, you know, things are so hard, like I just can't get them to do X, and I'm like, Why are you even why are you trying to do that? And they go, Oh, because I have to, because I should, because that's what society says that I'm a good mum. Again, it's that proving piece that I'm a good enough mother, and I'm like, Do you even care about that? And they go, No, and I'm like, Well, why the fuck are you doing it then? Like, why does it matter? It's it it can honestly be applied to so many areas, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because the way of something shows up in one area is just like the shadow across every area, right? Like it is literally that saying of the way you do one thing is the way you do everything, yes, but from an unconscious lens, like you or even you know, and like even with the motherhood example the other day, this showed up for me the control. Um, the kids were outside in their pajamas, and it wasn't that they're outside in their pajamas, I like don't care about that because like how dirty can you really get? Like, do you know what I mean? In there riding their bikes, it was that they weren't following what I had anticipated we were gonna do, but I wasn't doing it, I was cooking dinner, and I was like, why is this a big deal for you? And I was like, it was me, the internal of me. They weren't doing what I wanted them to do, and I was like, but they're happy outside, why are you trying to pull them inside to do an indoor activity um to stimulate their brains? I'm like, just let them be. Like, so at that exact time I just decided to let it go and continued cooking dinner because either way, I wasn't gonna be doing the puzzle with them, if you mean. Yeah, it's a lot of creating the internal chaos, but we think it we think it's like that that we think it help makes us feel in control, but it actually makes us feel out of control.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, totally. And then again, we get to prove it's hard because they're not doing what I'm asking them to do, and then we're losing our shit, being like, you need to come inside right now and do this puzzle that I've set up for you, not realizing that it's yeah, that whole like, oh, but that's what they should be doing. They should, you know, they shouldn't be doing this, they should be doing that. Like, my clients, first thing, as soon as they say should or shouldn't, because it always comes up in the first session. That word is banned in my containers. Do not say it to me. Like should ban it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, should is like you're fitting that box of what you think you should do. It's like I dropped the word normal, I completely took it out of my vocabulary, and I was like, normal is an illusion. No, like we're all like, don't do that, it's not normal, or that's embarrassing, and that's not normal. And it's like, but normal and is an illusion, and it's all to fit this society's like ideal human being, but that's the reason you're in the place that you are, and no one is the same, we're actually all different, and it's like you need to embrace that. That yeah, like that is your superpower.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. I love that. Okay, so the second thing that you told me that you had to do in order to go from you know, Elwoods to to like the the beach Barbie that you are now, um, which we love. Cinder's always posting photos of herself at the beach, and I'm like this bitch, like she lives literally right on the beach. It's amazing. It's it's very inspiring from someone who lives in Darwin. We don't go to the beach, that's crocodiles. The second thing that you said, and I think that this again is such an important conversation, it comes back to that intentionality, was setting your bare minimums for obviously business, but I'm assuming that this probably also goes for again across the board where you sat down and worked out, or maybe sort of I don't know, you worked out what you needed to do each week to move yourself forward. Again, I'm assuming that you also kind of had had a little bit of a a look at what your values were, where you were wanting to grow. All of that comes into that intentionality because you can't work out the bare minimums without knowing those things. Like, where am I trying to go? What am I trying to do? How am I trying to raise these kids? What is a good partner, like all of those things. What were your bare minimums? How did you work those out based off of where you wanted to go?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So, and this can kind of be like, I think the value conversation is very, very important, and I'll just say something quickly here with the values right, and especially with mumps. Um, people think you do the to-do list, which again, this is coming back to self-worth thing and your productivity being tied to self-worth. Um, okay, I'm gonna do the to-do list and aka my chores and my errands, and I don't know, my resets, and whatever else you do, and then I get to have pleasure, and I'm like, that is at the top of my list. Like, literally, my pleasure. We wake up on Saturdays and Sundays, we have breakfast, or we just get our clothes on, and we go have breakfast that side and we're riding our bikes down the beach, like on eight bikes, so we're going to the beach every day. On the weekend, which was a long weekend, we literally did it every day, and the chores are like something we do in the afternoon, and to be honest, they don't even take up a big amount of time for me because I have a lot of structure, even in the way that I do that, but there also isn't anything like from the lens of if I didn't fold my washing, I am completely okay with that. I literally, so this is even how I do my washing, I keep on top of like the bas the dirty basket, simply just put it on every day. But even from the lens of like, I don't hang anything out, I am efficient with that dryer, it gets used for literally everything. Even towels, because I lack them fussy. Like, have you difference when you hang them on them? Oh, they're scratchy. Yes, I know.
SPEAKER_01:I did it the other day and I was like, I won't be doing that. It's efficient and it's better.
SPEAKER_02:And it's better, and so I keep on top of the c like clothes, but like it's even that. Like, if my partner didn't have a work show, like just go to the pile. That's not there's no weirdness around like oh, I'm not a good partner because I didn't keep my washing clean, or I'm not a good mum because my kids now need to get their cleanness out of that basket. And what I do is every Sunday I will go in there and I will shut the door, lock it. I don't I don't I lock myself in, but I'm not physically locked, um, and I just fold and I'm like in that pattern, like that flow state of fold, fold, fold, fold. Honestly, I will fold six baskets, seven, in less than half an hour, and then I put it like they're in their piles of um weird walkers to each room, and then I take each one to each room and I put it away. Where if you're doing that daily, that's probably 20 minutes every single day from wash to fold to put away, and you're probably also getting distracted. Like, even watching it, doing it in front of TV, like you're doing two things at one time. So it's even little things like that around like efficiency of how I do things, like even cleaning the house. I don't clean per room, I clean per like tar. So if I'm gonna clean windows, I go to every single window, and that's things that are simple as like you're not changing bottles all the time, you're not changing like your chucks and your cleaning products because you're just using glass cleaner and paper towel. Do you know what I mean? And then rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. And I kind of learned that in business, right? Because we get in this flow state, so that science says it takes 20 minutes for you to get into a flow state. So let's just think you're cleaning, you have an hour of windows to clean, right? Because we have a lot of glass in our house. Like I'm just gonna start getting into a flow state and execute it so much quicker than oh, I'm gonna do the windows now, I'm gonna do the services, I'm gonna change chucks, I'm gonna change towel. Um, and you yeah, and I call this in business like an energetic hat, right? Where I have like a creative hat, I have like an admin hat, and technically it's kind of the same, right? Because your body and your subconscious just go through that same repetit rep repetitive pattern of white, white, white, spray, spray, spray. And like that's how I do things efficiently. It's even things like um in the household, I will make myself lunch and I'm using the chopping board to like make a sandwich, and I'm like, okay, what I think ahead. This is like how can I do things easier? Okay, so I don't have to wash this chopping board right now. I'm gonna cut up all the food that I need, and I'll put it like in a bowl. Sometimes they'll I put an actual slow cook on if it can be something that's slow cooked. Um, and so it's dinner's prepared. Dinner's either cooked and we need to serve it, or it's prepared in the fridge, and my partner just needs to cook it. He does a lot of the cooking in time. Um, and it's like things like that, right? Like, how simple is that? Saving us time in the afternoon because we all know from 5 pm or whenever your kids get home, it's pretty crazy. So it's like that batching of tasks. It is, it's called yeah, that's the proper name for it. It's batching. And what I did was I did that in business first, and then I brought it into life because I realized, oh wow. And so even things like um, yeah, like what you said before, like knowing your values and then setting your kind essentially what I have right is KPIs. I have my own KPIs, and I think a lot of people don't do this in business because they like you know, they it's almost like you need to still treat yourself like you were back in the day from the lens of like I have KPIs, I have things I need to do, but not that you need to sit there for 10 hours a day and work for the second, right? But because you know your KPIs, you know what you need to do, and anything outside of that, like you really need to question it. And so I knew, um, and if this and again, this will change, right? If I have like and I sit down weekly and like plan out my week, but let's just say on a Monday, I was actually in a launch of a new product or something, I probably would create more content, right? So it's not just consistent, but bare minimum would be two emails per week and then content um pretty much every day, right? Pretty much every day. I even batch a lot of my content, and that's again that flow state. So I'll show you a little bit how my weeks look. I call these like the creative hats because I've structured my weeks in a way that I don't need to pivot between tasks too much, and I really do get into that flow state. So like my Monday mornings are like what I call like setting myself up the book, and so that looks like I'll always go to a cafe, I will plan my content because I only work a week ahead, and I have tried to do more, but I just feel like it's like well, I don't know, you lose a bit of that like creativity, and then you obviously have things that come up with your clients that you want to talk about and put in your content, and then it kind of can mess the whole schedule up because you're like, Oh, I'll change this here, but that's actually creating more work for you because you did plan out your flow, right? So plan my content. I I don't really need to write a to-do list because anytime something comes up, I put it in the notes section of my phone, like puts out of my brain already. My to-do list is pretty much done. Sometimes I might need to add things into it, but because I have these days, these energetic hats, I know what needs to be done every day, and even that's taking um, like it's not consuming me, right? So Mondays is admin to-dos, invoicing if I need to do it, um, and I then I write out my emails for the week, and they'll schedule them in. Sometimes one Monday, another, and another one Wednesday. Um, so that's done. Email marketing is fully done. That email marketing normally gets repurposed for the week too. So that will get repurposed. Um, and then what I do is normally I have clients on Monday afternoons, so that's that's so it's just admin and clients, right? There's nothing really else that gets done. Um, Tuesdays I'm with my kids, and because I batch a lot of my content, I honestly do not need to think about content. I literally do not need to think about business because all my KPIs, right, are getting done. I've done them because I know I do them on my set days. Wednesday is what I call a creative day. Like I have no meetings, I have no um, I have indie's like OT appointment in the afternoon, but I have nothing personal for myself. No meetings, no clients, very much a day to like create and be in a creative path. And so normally there's a lot of space between it. And I can move quite intuitively. But normally I would batch content on those days. So that just looks like you know one I do my makeup, and because I don't do my makeup every day. So that is even intentional, right? Like I don't have to do my makeup. Oh wow, I've got two hours back every week now. See, even things like that. Um and I just batch out a lot of content. I um do a lot of talking to the camera, and so again, even things like I'm strategic with when clients bring things to me that I think would be good content, and it's obviously personal to them. I put a note but then I clip it to the audience. So peep it's not talking about my clients, it's like educate, for example, but it's about that specific thing. Um, so I've got the list there already in my just in my notes section. It's fine, so I'm not putting it into notion, it's very like basic. It's like what did my clients need this week? Like, what's good to talk about? Like, and then I just set up the camera, bang, bang, bang, bang. I will always have an overflow from that. Like, and then um that afternoon I will edit the content, and I again it's even this. I talk to the camera, maybe do I don't know, six videos right, that talking is out of the way, and then I edit all together, and then I upload them into Instagram, and then I write the captions. So it's like even that. It's film, edit, see how I'm doing the same task over and over again, and you are more efficient. Um, Wednesdays I also use for like at the moment I haven't even needed to film content right because I have so much. Like I have I over like I post daily, right? But I also do other pieces of content as well that I'll edit in that afternoon that might not be talking to cameras. So um oh, so I have so much content, right? So I don't need to always film, like, and so at the moment I'm I would say I'm in like what I would call my hustle to a lot of people to be on their hustle, um, but I'm in I'm working on three projects. So my Wednesdays at the moment I would call them more like a locked-in. I still edit content, but I don't need to do a lot of filming because I have so much batch, and I'm trying to really like utilize that so I can focus on like my projects. So then that's just me pretty much sitting at my laptop, like really zoning in, creating, and it's still creating, right? Because I'm using that like creative hat, but I'm not getting distracted with meetings, not getting distracted with clients. You oh my god, this is so big. If you are not utilizing do not disturb, I don't know what you're doing with your life, and it's like because you just get pulled out of your focus constantly when emails, text messages, your partner calls like put your phone on do not disturb so you can actually focus. And then Thursdays I don't work, they're days with my girls, and Fridays are just all clients, and again, I will have space in those days, like on a Friday if I'm not back to back with clients, and so it's just having those systems that see how I'm not getting pulled back and forth all the time, it really does save a lot of um time, and a lot of what I'm doing, I'm controlling how I'm spending my time. Like, you know, a lot of mums feel this, and even a lot of entrepreneurs, it's like I'm always needed. Yes, because you tend to things as they come up instead of it being on your time and having self-restraint, because if your phone's not on do and D D, right, you don't know that someone's sent your message.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And then you respond to it when you get back to it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So yeah, having that flow is like if you look at that, like how much mental capacity have I saved, right? I'm not every day, I don't go, what am I doing today? I know exactly what I'm doing. It's even things like on Monday it was a public holiday, so I didn't get to do my content, right? I didn't um get to like plan it, so it actually didn't get done. So this week, now it's when you know yesterday, I still didn't do it, but I just pulled things that I had in my drafts because now a Wednesday is a creative day. It isn't it wasn't for planning my content. And even writing my emails, I didn't get to do that, so I did one just before quickly we come on here, um, because I had space because but otherwise I probably just wouldn't have done it. Do you know what I mean? For this one week because Mondays are those that and it's like being okay with that too, right? Yeah, yeah. Um, because this is where people don't like like I don't I'm so working in my business, I don't have time. I mean, I'm yeah, I'm working in my business, and because I can't scale it, yeah. Because you're constantly in these small micro moment um micro moment things of like sustaining and maintaining, you don't have time to scale. So, like you need to have that time locked in, and you cannot go, oh, I forgot to do this this one. It's like, well, now you actually need you're at 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. You're actually supposed to be in your execution and growth phase, so you need to forget it, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think it can definitely be really easy to be constantly like chasing, oh I need to do that, oh I need to do that, oh I need to do that. And I know that my brain is very flitty like that. I could definitely use some more training in this area, you know, a bit of the ADHD as well, but we're working on that because I don't like using that one as an excuse. It is a piece of information about my brain that is important to know, but now recently, because like obviously you are still extremely disciplined, like you know, you know what you need to do, you get it done, which obviously probably does come from those days where you like you've just kind of condensed the high achiever, right? Where it's you're still a high achiever, but you've just really like made it super fucking efficient. So I know that recently you shared that you realize that you'd kind of become a little bit a little bit complacent about all of the things, and obviously when we're bringing in that high achiever, because what we know about shadows is that they don't disappear, they are always there, and we always need to just keep an eye on them. It's a bit like a toddler in a fucking water path, like we know that they're around, we just need to keep eyes on them, they're probably fine, but every now and again, if you don't keep an eye on them, they're gonna run off and you know try and eat somebody else's food. So this piece came up for you where you felt that you just kind of weren't pushing yourself. Firstly, I would love to know like why do we need to continue to push ourselves? Is there a spot where we can just kind of be like, you know what, this is good enough? Probably not for you, but for people in general. And this obviously does come down to a personality thing. Some people are so happy to just hang out and just do their thing, do exactly the same thing every single week. Love that for you. What like how did you spot it? How did it make you feel? And what are you now doing to again? We don't move out of it, but integrate it.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, yeah. So what I what had happened was, and again, I wasn't actually feeling um like bored with it, so the shadow was complacency. I wasn't at the point of bored, like don't get me wrong, I think I probably would if I let it go longer, um like maybe another month, I probably would have been bored. But what was happening was I wasn't really pushing myself in any area, and this was happening in a multitude of areas. Like, for example, I've been running 6Ks without stopping for a long time now, never felt the need to push, and but that is because I enjoy running, right? I'm not doing it for a PV, I'm not doing it for even aesthetics. I actually genuinely love running, and like my running track is just six K's, so I was like, Oh, I love this run, I'm not gonna go further, right? But it's even that like running 6Ks just on repeat for like two years, like so that even in itself was like, oh, okay, I had that realization, and I was like, Well, I'm just gonna push myself on this one day, I'm gonna run up further into like the middle of town, which is actually like a really beautiful run. Anyway, what do you know? I did 9K's without stopping, and I was like, Oh, that's interesting. Like, it I mean, I definitely was like hucking and puffing. I I mean I don't want to say it was easy, but it was like it wasn't like dragging my feet. And then I realized the same had been happening in my business, like we had been selling um my guide the shadow bible 30. We'd kind of gone consistently up to 30 for a long time. Like, I'd say even the past four weeks, we're consistently at 30, and that was because I had been just maintaining I wasn't doing anything to push it beyond. Like, that's just what it was. Literally, with both, I had got complacent and was like it was that this is good enough, right? And when I think about what I've created, I'm like, oh well, this is pretty good in comparison to most people, right? Even that, but it's like but so you're just gonna settle, right? Because you know, like this is great, oh I'll just settle now, but then what is that? I'm never pushing myself, and I'm not I'm literally not meeting my own potential. I'll never meet my own potential for as long as I go, oh, this is good enough, right? And I think there definitely is a balance between like being grateful for what you have and then going for more, but for someone for high achievers, you naturally have a like a shadow around challenge. You love to be challenged, that's why you keep seeking out the challenges to push yourself. And I wasn't doing that, I'm not pushing myself. Content feels easy, getting sales feels easy, coaching feels easy. So, what will happen? You'll soon get bored, and then you'll probably start running these narratives that this isn't aligned to me. Like those literal words, but it's not that it's not aligned, it's that you're not actually pushing, it's an internal thing, right? To get your kick. So all I needed to do was like I it actually was a very simple fix. I literally needed direction. I was like, okay, what are your goals now? Yeah, okay. I was like, why don't I go for double? And so that would have been 60, and I hit the 62 for the week. And even that felt stretchy when I was like, wow, that was kind of easy. But it still made me think, like, wow, where do you like settle? And you're like, because you just hadn't thought beyond that. Like that was kind of what it was. I hadn't even expanded my own mind. I guess I didn't really know what was re I don't think I still really know what's possible, right? But I think it was like, oh well, this is good, maybe I should just settle. A very unconscious process. And so all I did that week, this was last week by the way, um, where we doubled our sales, you know, my running went up, and I actually worked the least I've probably ever worked because it's holidays and my partner was home a lot. So now I've had a warning every day, like it just never felt easier. I was like, wow, even my own mindset was going, I was getting so much evidence of oh wow, it actually can be this easy. Like it's been easy, but look how easy this actually was. And there was definitely action steps that I took, right? I made bigger risks, I increased my ad spend. So I was like, let's take a risk on this. I got a bit more strategic, I was really analyzing the data. I changed a few things up quicker than I normally would, um, because it was like one ad was starting to die out, so like there would have been waste of budget because I changed it up, it it boosted again. Um, and then I went for another two runs and I again had to mentally push myself for them. There definitely was this one time where I was like, just walk, just walk. You, you know, you I didn't say deserve it, but I was like, it'd be nice to just walk on the beach. And so just things like that, I really pushed myself beyond my norm. And like it kind of was this like not simple, but kind of simple but not easy, right? So and I think a lot of people get in this of like I'm good, but they never push themselves. And like discomfort for me isn't something that really is a uh bluff. Like I'm so happy to hold discomfort. I don't have anything around that. Like, I think a lot of people don't move because they're actually scared. I'm not actually scared, I just hadn't expanded my mindset. I didn't know. I was like, oh, this is good, cool. Yeah, you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_01:I think a lot of that does come from that comparison piece, right? Because if you look for long enough, you will find somebody who is doing less than you are all every time. You will find someone who is better and someone who is worse. So if you are wanting to sit in that comfort, you're not wanting to actually change things, you will find someone who's doing less and go, oh well, at least I'm not doing I'm doing more than that person, so I'm good here. And it is such a trap, that comparison trap.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it is because and I've done this even in with like my work KPIs, right? Where I never stretched myself because I was like, Oh, I post, I sell every day. I'm like, that's easy for me. And Taylor was like our mentor, like for those listening, well, why don't you sell more? And I'm like, Oh, oh it's like we can do that, like you get so adjusted to these norms, and you're like, Oh, other people um aren't doing that, so this is good, so I'm good now. Like, right? But it's like other people are not your fucking competition, you are, and for as long as you sit in that, you will never actually that was the awareness to me of like wow, I'll never find my potential because I I'm not even pushing up against myself, I'm pushing up against people that I know aren't like their capacity isn't my capacity, it's even that like yeah, our capacity is completely different, and like you know, even the fact that you know I can't hold so much, but because of all this work, it's not like we just have different capacities because of like we were born that way. It's because of the work and the shadow work and the internal work and like even all this, like what you call this, like strategy stuff of like looking at how you're weak, and that's why I have more capacity.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_02:But I need to push myself. Um because as other than that, I could coast forever in that, really. Like, if I didn't have this awareness, I would just keep coasting.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I I feel like capacity is honestly such a mental game. I feel like capacity is like that mental resilience. It's like how do you overcome challenges, exactly like you know, how do you blow these challenges up, how do you, you know, get stuck on them, how do you sit there in your victim, how do you sit there going, oh, you know, poor me, everything's so hard, yada yada. But when you sort of start going, okay, cool, what's the solution here? What can I do here? You start to move faster, then yeah, your capacity does naturally start to stretch. I think it's a it is a real mental game, and people think that they can't, they don't have any control over that. Wild. Because I mean I'm sure that you're the same where like most of my clients by the time they leave me, they have gone from snapping over absolutely fucking everything and blaming everybody else for their problems is a big one, to okay, what part am I playing in this? How can I clean up my shit? And their capacity has just grown, they they're so aware of their emotions and their emotional intelligence, and all of those pieces, and all of this comes into it, yes, that they stop looking for it to be yeah, it's so hard all the fucking time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And and that's what I think too. I think I think a lot of people just avoid discomfort. So you you know, it's typical in our industry, like you probably work with a lot of people like this too. Oh, I've been going to therapy for years, I'm in all the self-development courses. Because you all this inner work you're doing is separate to your actual life. You have not addressed anything in your actual life. You've actually bypassed the whole thing, no work has been done, and it's because they are scared of the discomfort holding the boundaries, having those awkward conversations. But it's like you could literally do all the belief work, and you will if you don't have the evidence, nothing will ever shift because you're in an environment that it keeps just coming back out, right? And it like doesn't matter what you're trying to achieve, like you can't avoid the discomfort, you cannot avoid the action piece of it. And I think um, I think it's like even the love and light industry, it's like it's meant to be easy and it's meant to be flowy, and it's like, yes, I've spoken about ease today, but look at the work I had to do to yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
SPEAKER_01:And I think people miss that, right? They come out of it and they go, I'm gonna start a business so that I can work three days a week from my laptop on a beach. And it's like, yeah, you can get there, absolutely you can. You also need to work your fucking ass off to build to a point where you can do that. It doesn't just come, it's not like oh, I just manifest it and it just falls in my lap. Like, no, babe, you need to actually go out, you need to take the action, you need to do the things, and if you're not doing that because you're scared of discomfort, you're scared of fail, you're scared of boredom, is a big one. You're scared of yeah, like you can't sit in the the in the the discomfort of being bored, you're not going to get there, and like you do need to put in the work. I do feel like this is a huge piece in society at the moment where people just don't want to put in that work. They feel like entitlement, like they're entitled to just, well, you've got that, so why don't I get it? I actually saw I heard a quote this morning I was listening to um Diary of a CEO, and he quoted Jimmy Carr, who's a comedian, and it was it said, Everybody is it's uh it wasn't exactly this, but something along these lines. Everybody's jealous of what you've got, but nobody's jealous of how you got there. And I'm like, I love that. Like you've and you've got to choose your hard work, right? Like, you can take a bunch of action, you can sit there and hustle at your computer, absolutely. You can go into this sort of work, into the shadow work, into all of your beliefs, into all of the things that like gnarly bits of you that you don't want to touch because it's painful and it hurts and it's scary. But on the other side of that, laugh ain't so bad.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, and that's it, right? It's like it is that element of like who's your heart because yes, you can get to places purely by action alone, right? With plenty of people who are successful purely through action, who probably haven't even touched a self-development book and picked that one in their life, but it's like what is that from wounding one, probably, right? Like the high achiever, um, who they even have performance outside of their life, right? And eventually I do believe you will get to the point when we know this when you don't address your shit, your shadows, your wounding, it will get to the point you have no choice to address it. Yeah. And this is where a lot of people probably come to you and they come to me, like I coach a lot of high achievers, because they're so successful on paper, they're like, it's none of it's fulfilling. Like, and they have they can't be present with their kids. They're in a prison of their own mind, they keep chasing more, they get a luxury car, and they're like, Oh, I thought this would bring me happiness, and I'm like, and they don't have fulfillment, like a lot of people have no fulfillment except for inside their business. That's why they keep working in it. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Even that is a big piece here, especially for moms, especially for entrepreneurs, is you know, it's and it's quite simple, right? It's like everybody's seeking more performance, but like, what are you doing to fill your own cup up? Like, what do you actually do for yourself? And if you don't know, that is your responsibility to find out. And even that can be uncomfortable for people because what it means is trial and error. Going to a tennis class, maybe you hate it. Going to a painting class, you hate it. Maybe it's going and sitting by the pool and you actually again can't see the fullness. So it's like, okay, how do we figure that out? Like, do we do some traumatic practices? Like, you know, connecting two or five senses, do we do it for 10 minutes? Increase the time. Maybe dive in the pool. Like, we have to, there's we have to have, you know, we gain so much. For example, if you think about me doing the sabotage, what was I gaining from being busy? It fueled myself well. But when I started, um, because I used to sacrifice my health all the time. Like, I'd forget, I wouldn't eat properly, I would forget to exercise. I was always putting exercise at the last day, and I sacrificed that, I sacrificed time with my kids, I sacrificed um my pleasure. Like business always came first back then, like that's how fucking committed to it I was, wounding. But then when I started seeing in the gain from fulfillment, it started to switch. So that's kind of an piece to this puzzle, too, is you have to bring in the other things at the same time. You don't go, I'm gonna work on my wounding now around being a high achievement, and then I'm gonna have or do my to-do list, and then I'm gonna have some fulfillment now. You have to include that at the same time because then you get the game. Oh, this feels really good. I now love surfing, I love going to do a I don't know, a fit stop class, I love doing, I don't know, cartwheels in the backyard or like whatever you want to do, and then you start to see the game. Yeah. Which takes away from self-worth being tied, and like because you have more in life, your identity is not wrapped up in success. It's like who are you? Your work is to discover who are you outside of being a monk, who are you outside of being an entrepreneur? Who are you outside of any title, to be honest?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, a hundred percent. I I literally have people come to me and they say, I don't even know what I like doing, I don't know who I am, I don't know any of it, and I'm just like it's you can see the pain in their face, you can see it. They're just like, I have everything I ever wanted, and I'm so unhappy, and it's just it's so sad, it is so sad to watch. We could talk all day, I feel. I want to ask one last question because obviously we know that shadows don't disappear, these are personality traits that I don't believe you can get rid of. Like, obviously, we've repressed them, that's what a shadow is. It is a repressed trait, it's a trait that you've been taught is wrong, so it kind of comes up in crazy ways because it still needs to be represented. How do we like keep eyes on these things? How do we integrate them? And how do we make sure that these shadows don't pop up in another area just because we've like, you know, mowed the fucking lawn over here that that weed isn't gonna come up over yonder and start causing grief in another area of our lives?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so the first thing, and exactly what Steph said, it's like I think a lot of people say like dissolve the shadow, and I when I think they say dissolve, I hope they mean integrate. I don't think they mean actually get rid of it. But it like it technically it dissolves its power, right? Once it's integrated in a healthy way. So let's think about um like the shadow of even like selfish is a big one, right? So many people have repressed selfishness, mums in particular. I mean, you know, business owners, people we coach, right? Um, so they think again it's like their identity is wrapped up in caretaking, giving to others, that makes me important. Like I'm gonna self-sacrifice, I'm gonna come last, but as long as my kids are fed and as long as my kids are happy and I've tended to every every um then every waking minute that my exercise is at the window, my nourishment is out the window, and now I literally have no time for myself, and at 7 p.m. I have to go to sleep because I'm fucking so mentally exhausted, right? It's like that is actually the shadow coming out. Like that and your your shadow will be if you if you've suppressed selfish, you will be selfish in another area. You just will not be able to see it, and it's probably coming out very unhealthily, and I'd probably say it's coming out with your partner, yeah. Um or your partner. So it's like you and this will come out in not being supportive, even emotionally supportive. So you're actually being selfish and you don't want to give your time to them, your support to them, you don't want to hold them like emotionally and energetically, you have no bandit for them. Uh what is it like the reactivity, the resentment, like you know, you're not you can't you have no compassion for them. Why do they always get to do what they want on the weekend? They I'm it's always expected I have to ask them, they I don't know, they're the kids. And so what we want to look is is like selfish is never a bad thing, right? No shadow is bad, it's only bad because you've perceived it as bad. Like you think it's bad, ten slides now in the shadow and if you've disowned it. But how can we integrate your shadow, aka and this example selfish, in a positive way? The first thing would probably and eat not easy, but like the most obvious would be like how can we prioritize time for you? That actually requires you to be selfish, whether you want to say that or not. If you're taking time for you, technically you're selfish. Me being an entrepreneur is me being selfish. Even you taking a pay cut is you being selfish. We need to stop pretending it's not, right? That's healthy ways that we integrate selfish, and all that needs to be done is in a healthy way. It's not saying now go you don't give any fucks about anyone. It's not saying no one else matters, you are solely all that matter, because then what happens is the shadow will swing the other way, right? Um and so it's about bringing in in what's the word like a healthy equilibrium? I don't know how to say that word, but like equilibrium, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. A healthy balance, right? But here's the thing, right? It's not always gonna be balanced. Like you can integrate the shadow, but then something might happen in your life that maybe uh triggers you, maybe you're going through something, so like you actually do need to be more selfish, and that's just okay, right? Um, and all it takes is really the awareness to see it and go, like instead of like you know, we go, oh why am I doing that thing again? It's like, oh, I'm doing that thing again. How do I like shift it? Or like what do I need to look at here, right? Like, for example, why am I staying staying busy again? Like, what am I avoiding? What do I need to look at? And this is what I say to everyone, right? Like, when they do this work, because you know, shadow work, they're like the dark side, we're addressing the dark side. Yes, we are technically addressing the dark side, but you cannot get into your light without addressing it. Yeah, you cannot positive think your way to being healed, like it just physically isn't possible. And so I say the shadow is the portal to your next level. The patterns are the gateway. They're actually like what a privilege to be able to see it. Yeah, what a privilege to be able to see this shadow coming out in your relationship that's keeping you from a deep, secure love. What a privilege to see my shadow around the complacency where I'm like, fuck, I would have never like you know, re reached my potential and then I would have eventually felt disconnected and maybe had no idea why actually I saw that part of me, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think the pi the mistake that people make is that they'll change something and they'll you know maybe go from not ever exercising to like prioritizing their health and fitness, and then they'll do that for a while and then they'll fall back off the bandwagon and they go, Oh, I'm so shit, this always happens to me, you know, I'm just crap at it. No, that pattern has been a pattern for a very, very long time, and that pattern was there for a reason. So if you've put a little bit of space between the times that that pattern has run, that is still progress, and we go, yeah, okay, cool. Because we will always snap back to what we know, especially when things start getting stressful. When we go into that survival mode, we will always go back to what we know, what we've done the most, what feels comfortable to our brain, what our brain can do on autopilot, so it has extra bandwidth, right? For the other things that are going on to keep us alive. Our brains are very dramatic because we're, you know, pretty comfortable, we're not getting chased by tigers anymore. But when we when we constantly beat ourselves up for oh, I'm doing that thing again, it just allows that shadow to go back into the shadow. It's like they're like baby deers, like you kind of just have to stand there and wait.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's about like taking the pressure off of it. I think people put so much pressure on themselves, and it's like even with the exercise, like, why did you decide you were gonna go from zero days to seven?
SPEAKER_01:Because you should.
SPEAKER_02:You are literally setting yourself up literally, you will probably fail. Like, I don't want to disembowel you, but like why seven? And like, why do you need to have seven to be quote? It's the success, it's successful, but in a different way. It's like take off this benchmark, maybe you do three, but also. Remember being okay, like what I said with the washing. I don't make it mean anything when I haven't folded my washing for a week. Do you know what I mean? Don't make it mean anything and just go, oh, I'll I'll do it tomorrow. Like if we make everything so personal, that's literally the problem, right? And we're designed to do that, but this is where, and that's our consciousness, right? We need to step almost outside of us to be able to observe and then to like make the appropriate action without making it mean something at all. Yeah, you know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's coming back to that like neutral space where nothing's good, nothing's bad, it's all just data, it's all just information, and we go, okay, phenomenal. I'm doing that thing again where I, you know, don't look after myself and I stay out way too late scrolling and I don't exercise and I don't eat well, and then I'm getting snappy and I'm seeing all of this unravel. What's going on? Like, why is this happening?
SPEAKER_02:Curiosity, yeah. It's about being curious and like having compassion for yourself, and exactly what you said. Like, I I think you know, we have to remember you are un becoming an unlearning years, like literally lifetimes of stacked, stacked evidence of like this is who you are, this is the way you are, and then you think you can unlearn it in like what four weeks, like it just doesn't work like that, and it's even when you have integrated a shadow, it comes up again at a deeper layer because your environment means if you're in a like you know they're saying new level, new devil. Maybe it's visibility in your business because you're exposed to more eyes. That's not that you haven't done the work, it's that you just need to address it at a deeper layer, and maybe there was like a belief you didn't see, maybe there was like you know, something you didn't see previously, but again, it's like it's still a gift to be able to see it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. And I think you just the more layers that you go through and the more times that you see it, the better you get at spotting it. I've just spotted a a one recently where it was like that fear of being left out, that wound of being left out, that wound of not being liked, like all of that sort of stuff, and it came back up in a big way, and I was like, oh my god, what's going on? And then I was like, Hey, you sneaky little bitch, what are you doing back here? I thought we dealt with you.
SPEAKER_02:Like I said to my clients, see how you kind of spoke to yourself in a different tone to how you normally talk. I do that too, so it's like it's separating you from you. You're like your ego, like, hey, I see what you're doing, I know you're just trying to protect me, but like it's safe. I'm still gonna post the content, I'm still gonna take this time for myself, whatever it is. And like you take that emotional charge out of it, and I do that too. I'm like, I'm I'll speak to myself quite stern, and I'm like, fuck off, we're not going there again. It's fine, just do it. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, um, and it's interesting what you said too about like if I want to come up, my control has been coming back up because I've been in different environments, and it's interesting to see wow, I feel obviously really safe in my town, and now I go to another town, and everything's unpredictable, and I like see this part of me that wants to control, yeah, and I think that that's so important too because people will go, Oh, I'm healed, but they never leave the house and they never do anything new, and it's like, no, no, no, you need to put yourself into new situations in order to see what there is still because this is a journey, it is not a destination, like you will never be healed. You just kind of you get to a point where you're like, Yeah, this is pretty good, and then you kind of get to a new point, you go, Okay, yep, there's still some stuff here to do, and that's that's beautiful. Like, the journey's a fun bit. It's noticing the things and going, Oh, look at that landmark, oh look at that thing. Oh, I've seen that before, but it's back again. Okay, cool. Like, let's let's deal with you then. Come on, then. What do you need to say? What do you need to do? What's going on? Um, yeah, and just bringing that it's just fun. It doesn't have to be so fucking serious all the time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it gets to be fun, and I think you know, a lot of like people don't get that, and like shadow workers, literally self-acceptance, it's actually accepting the part, it's not actually about I mean your your behaviors will change, but it's just changing your perception and what that part of you actually means, right? Because we're not it's not bad, we're just want we want to integrate, we want to see we we wanna see it. Like most of our shadows are actually superpowers. Well, they all are to be honest, but you know, it just depends on what they are. Yes, exactly. It's just about having it in a healthy balance.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been such a fun chat. Um, if people want to come and find you, come and follow you, I will pop your Instagram handle down. Yeah, it's the best spot to find you. Yes, just see I think it's just Cinder Brandon.
SPEAKER_02:So just pop it in those show notes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'll pop it in the show notes. I'll also put the link to Cinder's Shadow Bible, which is super fucking cool. It's like a whole document of all of these pieces and how they're coming up, and super super handy document to have. But again, thank you so much for joining me, and we will see you in the next episode. Thank you for having your story does not end here.
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