Man: Quest to Find Meaning

Stuck in Life? Start Here to Rediscover Your Purpose and Find Clarity

• James Ainsworth • Season 1 • Episode 23

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Stuck in Life? Start Here to Rediscover Your Purpose and Find Clarity 

In this powerful episode, I sits down with men’s coach and transformation expert Scott McGregor to explore how to overcome self-doubt, perfectionism, and inner resistance. Discover practical strategies to break free from mental roadblocks, embrace authenticity, and step into a more fulfilled life.

🔥 Key Takeaways from This Episode:

✅ Why self-doubt holds you back—and how to rewire your mindset for confidence.
✅ The hidden dangers of perfectionism and how to stop it from keeping you stuck.
✅ Techniques to break through inner resistance and move forward with clarity.
✅ How reframing rejection and failure can help you grow and find your true path.
✅ The role of men’s groups & spiritual practices (like Byron Katie’s The Work) in self-discovery.

💡 This Episode Is Perfect For:

✔️ Men feeling stuck, lost, or disconnected from their true purpose.
✔️ High achievers battling perfectionism, self-sabotage, or fear of failure.
✔️ Anyone seeking personal growth, resilience, and mental clarity.

🎧 Listen Now to Man: Quest to Find Meaning and start your journey to authenticity, purpose, and success!




Scott McGregor, PhD is the founder of the Powys Men's Circle and has been leading men's support groups since 2010 in both the US and UK. He has completed Leadership Trainings in both Mankind Project and Satvatove Institute and is a certified life coach since 2011. Scott is adept in designing experiential events that are engaging and support participants to find new perspectives and solutions.

Last year, Scott was commissioned by NHS Wales to host discovery workshops for leaders of men's groups across Wales. Over 150 men attended in total, representing over 80 men's groups. Scott is now crafting facilitation trainings for group leaders (men and women) which will begin in January with David Wolf, PhD coming to lead the Transformative Communication and Advanced Seminars in Mid Wales.

https://satvatovewales.org/

In today's episode, we have a deep conversation about how self-inquiry. Asking oneself, deep reflective questions. Can help you to open up new pathways for personal growth. And discovering source of emotions and beliefs. We talk about how facing those challenges. With curiosity. Can create a better understanding and acceptance of difficult situations. Talk about how to reframe rejection. As redirection. Welcome to Man Questifying Meaning, where we help men navigate modern life, find their true purpose, and redefine manhood. I'm your host, James, and each week, inspiring guests share their journeys of overcoming fear Embracing vulnerability and finding success. From experts to everyday heroes. Get practical advice and powerful insights. Struggling with career, relationships or personal growth? We've got you covered. Join us on Man Quest to Find Meaning. Now, let's dive in.

James Ainsworth:

Let's just start off. Tell me a bit about yourself.

Scott McGreger:

Thanks. We came into contact because we're both part of Mankind Project U. K. I was involved since 2010 in America before I moved here to Wales. And yeah, for me, it's been great to have a men's peer to peer support group that I can attend. When I came to Wales from America, I didn't know anyone other than my in laws. And to be able to get on the website for MKP and find different groups, men's groups, that I could attend in the area, it was a big boost to my well being and feeling a part of this community.

James Ainsworth:

Can we go back to your childhood and how did you start to get onto the path of personal development?

Scott McGreger:

Thanks. Yeah. For me, it started pretty early. I got a book on self hypnosis when I was like 14 years old and started getting excited by the idea that I could change myself. I could do some simple practices that all of a sudden things that scared me, I would be more comfortable with. And then that led to a search for meaning and purpose as a college student who was on a path of Hey, I'm just going to make a lot of money. I'm going to be a stockbroker like my brother and money is going to bring me happiness. And then, of course, at some point I questioned, is that true, what are the real riches in life and experiences, community, peace, harmony, contribution. And so that led me to questioning what's this all about. And soon after that, I met a Hari Krishna on campus at the university or Florida State University. And I've read the Bhagavad Gita and it made a lot of sense and became vegetarian. And in all that process, I was just remembering friends saying you're going to become a Hare Krishna. I'm like, no way, I'm never going to do that. And then as I learned about the things like, why do you eat this way? Why do you dress this way? Why do you shave your head? It's oh yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And pretty soon I was like, oh my God, I've become one. And yeah, so that when I graduated, I finished my PhD in business from Florida State. I said, okay, one year before I become a professor, I'm going to live in the temple and immerse myself in the practices and the tradition. And that one year turned into nine years. And so I had nine years experience of being a monk in a temple with a vow of poverty and just my day filled with service, learning, comradeship, camaraderie.

James Ainsworth:

Nice. That sounds like a really interesting journey. Just before we cover that little bit, how did your childhood impact Your teenage years and your 20s.

Scott McGreger:

One way that my childhood impacted me that I didn't have a religion. My parents religion was Sundays we golfed. And I feel like because I never was pressured, you have to go do this. And I definitely never had anything like God's watching you and he's going to punish you. I never had any negative connotations with spirituality and God, and so when it came time as a a 22 year old, college student to figure out what is my belief system? What is my relationship with the divine? I didn't have a lot of baggage to get over. I hadn't been harmed and traumatized. And so I, yeah, I think I was more open to to the idea of not like whether or not God exists, but what is God? What is my relationship with source and how do I connect with that source and what's it look like for me to bring out that divinity in myself?

James Ainsworth:

It's a big question. What is God? What is purpose? What is desire? What are all these words? And I think as soon as you open that kind of worm, that kind of worms and you're open, you start to be open to this kind of stuff. It's almost becomes a quest. A big quest.

Scott McGreger:

Yeah, I like that word, quest, cause it is, and for me quest involves adventure and all the things we love, but it also involves like night sleeping on the floor and the dark night of the soul and all the challenges. to get to the other side of that quest. I think for me the, like if you talk about the chakras and like for me, the spirituality was the top chakras, my heart was open. My, my concept of what's possible was really open. I was airy. And so then when I came into contact with men's work after I'd left the temple and got involved in mankind project and talking about shadow and how to not try to. Meditate away shadow, but to go into the shadow and to claim it as a gift. It felt very grounding. You know that the activities of the men's group is earth based. It's grounded. It's not airy fairy. And so I feel like for me that, that was really a help to feel like an integrated, more complete quest for evolution.

James Ainsworth:

How did being in the temple really impact your life? How did really having that idea of living in poverty and being meditating, how did that really help you to ground into your purpose?

Scott McGreger:

The process of bhakti yoga, as I understand it, is to Find a way to be of service to the divine, like what's being called of me right now in the world, what's the highest good I can perform, and when I'm performing that service, I can do it with a mentality of Oh, I got to get this over, then I can get back to my Netflix show, something that's really important to me, or I can embrace it as there's nothing better than this moment right now. And by that full presence in the moment, in the activity, it's like you think of the Buddhist monks that do the sand mandalas, and like they're fully there in that, and then when they're done with it, they just scrape it away. It's not important. It's the process that's important. And for me, that's something that I felt the temple training gave me. What is my motivation? Am I able to deepen my service to another person? Am I able to get free from that mentality of what's in it for me? That kind of taints the exchange. It taints the exchange. It's like the price tag for deep ecstasy is giving up the price tag. So the more I can lose myself in the service to another, the more I get, it's that kind of challenging quandary, how can I give up my fear that I'm not going to get anything out of this. And by giving up that fear, it's actually, that's where the reward occurs. The payoff.

James Ainsworth:

Don't you give up fear? But, actually, before we get too deep into it Dig a little bit deeper into that. How did you find the journey on presence? Because I know from my own perspective, last year, one of the things I've been really focusing on is becoming more present in my everyday life. It's, it seems to be, sometimes I'm able to be present. But then other times there's a battle between present and becoming unconscious. How did you start to really hone in presence and what kind of steps did you take?

Scott McGreger:

What I heard you say there was like yeah, you're interested in presence cause you sense there's something there to this because you have a different experience of the world when you're present versus what I heard you say unconscious. And so for me, I challenge you to, or invite you to look at what is taking you out of presence. I

James Ainsworth:

think it's more the everyday kind of habitual habits. So for example, when you go downstairs, you get into perhaps do a morning routine, but because you perhaps have this idea, you're going to do this, it's a lot harder to be present. Because your body almost automatically takes over or another example could be, perhaps I'm doing a job that I don't particularly like what I do it. I do it again and again, so I become on present or unconscious with regards to that. And it's more working out. How did, how are you able to overcome that of being unconscious to becoming more present?

Scott McGreger:

Yeah. What I heard you describe is a, an experience I have sometimes driving, like I drive somewhere and it's like, how did I even get here? I don't feel like I paid attention to the driving any of it. And yeah, you can have your morning routine and in some ways the body takes over and the mind goes somewhere else and there's maybe a loss of experience. There isn't as much taste or you don't relish the experience as much when your mind is elsewhere.

James Ainsworth:

Yeah. It becomes, I think it becomes tedious, becomes boring. And I've noticed yesterday I had a podcast yesterday and we did, rather than actually talking about his journey, we talked, we did like a coaching session just to explain and show people the impact of shadow work. And one of the things we did was. Connecting to the safety officer. The magician side of things and having a conversation of why does he need to protect the inner child, the boy inside when the actual being, the actual, the king energy or the as people say that the being that we are when you're present can actually start to run the show more by being in that state of presence.

Scott McGreger:

Yeah. So there's a way you could experience leaving presence because of a safety officer or a fear of, Hey, did I take care of everything for yesterday or for the future? And did I do something wrong yesterday that I need to clean up? So it's maybe past and future oriented.

James Ainsworth:

Yeah, so where, whereas when you actually, the only time you can really impact your life is really this exact moment to buy, obviously being that state of presence. It's then when you're able to connect your intuition on a deeper level. It's then when you are able to really fulfill, feel that bliss or that feeling of ecstasy because you are present in the body. And so the question more about is, how can people, listeners, start to take that idea of being less present to becoming more present in their everyday moments?

Scott McGreger:

Yeah, I think this starts, that's a great question, how to do it, I think it starts with first having a reason to, and I loved your explanation of I can have an activity that I'm doing without presence, but it can be boring, there can be a way that there isn't as much taste to it, and I heard you describe that the reason there isn't as much taste is because I'm not embodied. I'm feeling through my mind, and that's only one of the ways that we acquire information, pleasure, connection, joy in the world. If we can engage the body, the mind, the intellect, the soul, the aeros all of the energies that make up this divine human experience that we're having. The more that we engage them the more richness there is in this moment. And sometimes, maybe we've had this experience from psychedelics or something. It's just, whoa, the colors, the touch, the, right? It's that's not doing anything that our body can't do itself. Psilocybin, all these things, it's just changing the serotonin and the dopamine that's already existing in our body that we can create, as you say, by bringing this full presence to the moment.

James Ainsworth:

Because I, I come to realize is that where the more that you become bored of the mundane things that you do throughout a day, the less conscious the more likely you are to take on things like binge watching TV or pornography other things. And it's more, it's just my own realization is that within boredom though. There's actually space, and it's exploring, explore, you start to explore, I did it at a a dance festival, there's times when I don't always partake in all the activities because I feel in that moment, I don't need to do that thing in that moment, so it's more along the lines of being able to sit quietly, doing nothing, And allowing boredom to come up, and then within that boredom, able to explore what is boredom, what's underneath boredom, what's inside boredom. And then, the answers, that's when you suppose you get the gold.

Scott McGreger:

Thanks for that. Yeah, what I'm hearing you say is like there's a way that an emotion can come up, in this case boredom. And rather than be like, Oh, bored, I want to get the, I want to drink the antidote for boredom, do something. But instead of trying to get out of the boredom to really go into the boredom. Yeah. To be curious what's this about? How's it feeling my body? And then what I heard you say is like from underneath there, some deep answers might come out. Like for me, it can be unexpressed grief. If

I've got

Scott McGreger:

unexpressed feelings inside, anger or grief, then I've numbed myself, and my life feels boring. And through emotional release techniques, like I've been involved in the ISTA, International School for Temple Arts, and they teach a lot of emotional release techniques. We do it in Mankind Project. By doing these activities, then I reconnect with the vibrancy of life. All of a sudden the haze of boredom has been removed. Yeah, and it won't be, it won't be from, binging Netflix or doing a wank or something. Those are all temporary. They're not gonna, they're not gonna express the full emotions deep underneath. And then the wank and the Netflix is much better after, after I've done that emotional release, I'm not against self pleasure or entertainment.

James Ainsworth:

So how did, so obviously we're talking about the temple. How else did the temple being in the temple impact your life?

Scott McGreger:

Leadership. Yeah. I was in charge of the temple for seven years and I was given the keys and said, okay, because meditate good or something like that, or know how to distribute books in a parking lot. You should be in charge of people. It's like I had no training. And it, yeah I reverted back to strategies for survival. In this workshop that I'm involved in, Sattva Tov, we talk about strategies for living versus strategies for survival. Strategies for survival are looking good, maintaining an appearance of control I got this together, anything but being vulnerable. And because in my role as a temple president, I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do. I put on the mask, the persona of authority. And then I often had a different voice and often that voice was yelling at people. Yelling management by yelling. You won't find it in any of the Stephen Covey books. It was a Scott McGregor special. And what happened is after a few years of doing that I was depleted. Yeah, I was going to the I went to the emergency room in America for a backache. And I said, this is so bad. My, my legs are numb. I don't know what's wrong. And they did an x ray and said, there's nothing physically wrong with you. Maybe you're trying to get pain kill, pain pills out of us. And I'm like, no, I don't even drink coffee, tea or anything like that. And so I went to a network chiropractor and he said, Oh yeah, this isn't a physical problem. This is an emotional problem. I'm like, what are you talking about? I can't move. And so he did the muscle testing where they put the arm in the air and he puts pressure on it. And he says different things. And he talked about bereavement or grief and no, I'm okay. When people die in my life, I feel it. And then he said dogmatically positioned persons. And my arm went down, and I said, I don't even know what that means. He says your body does, and he says, it means the people you care about in your life, you're at odds with, you're in an argument with, and you feel like you can't resolve it. And I'm like, yeah, about 40, 40 of them, because as a leader in a community, whatever decision I make, for some, it was too strict, and for others, it was not strict enough. And so I was having, voices in my ear all the time, like you have to do different, you have to do different. And yeah, it felt like a lot of tension. And so it was a relief for me to know okay, at least I've identified the problem, but I didn't know what to do with it. And so the next day Hari Krishna, a friend of mine, David Wolf, he had, he said. I've been taking his counseling skills courses to help me learn how to manage the people in the temple better. He said, I've developed a three day seminar that I think you should come to. I'm like, totally, I'm there. And it was great. It was three days of really looking at what are my strategies for living life? What is the things that I learned from watching mom and dad argue? The things that I learned from being ostracized from a group of kids as a five or a fifth grader? And what, who, who do I really want to be in the world? And a lot of empathy skills too, so how to listen to people at a deep level. And I was in one of the final processes of the workshop, and it had to do with obstacles. And my obstacle was, I want to make my personal relationship with the devotees in the temple, devotees is what we called Hare Krishnas, my priority. Yeah, and even like saying that would bring tears. Because I just thought, I can't do it. I've hurt their feelings, I've treated them harshly, I just, I can't do it. And we personified our obstacles. Don't want to give away the process. But in there I got to really stand up for what I believed in and argue with my obstacles. I'm not going to let fear get in my, get in the way. And then the other one was like, you've got too much to do. You don't have time to prioritize relationships. And I argued, if the devotees are happy, they'll do 10 times as much work. It was a real way to take the mental things going on inside, put them outside into physical space and engage with them with real energy. And after that process, I was like, my back's all better. And it was that instantaneous, it was that much of a one to one correlation. The challenges in my life were coming from my head. And they were manifesting in my body in a pain that was practically debilitating. And so that gave me a lot of faith in this idea that by repressing things, I'm going to hurt myself and the kind of gabber maté. Explanation way of like stress is the cause of all ailments unfelt traumas from childhood. These are things that are really affecting our health and well being. Yeah, I continued to be involved in that workshop, the sub the toe of workshop and David's written a book relationships at work and, I've, for the last year, I've been bringing him here to Wales from America to teach that, that workshop, and I'm bringing him again January 9th through 12th in Llandrindod Wells, Wales. And it continues to be a big part of my unfolding and the listening skills that I've gotten from that workshop have been recognized and appreciated in the men's group circles. And I've done a lot of specific help to help men's group leaders hold a sacred space. For other men, by, by deeply stepping into their world, helping them feel heard and understood, and having the trust that I don't have to advise someone, I don't have to fix someone, but just to hold an unconditional positive regard and an open space for them to explore what's going on, they have the answers. So

James Ainsworth:

that idea was that you would take a challenge that you're having, such as I don't have enough time and you would argue the reasons for that. You do have enough time.

Scott McGreger:

Okay. So I'm going to describe more of that process. So the process is to take somewhere where you feel stuck in your life.

James Ainsworth:

Okay.

Scott McGreger:

And then to have 3 or 4 people personify your obstacles. I want to do, I want to do a new website for myself. So my obstacle is I'm not, I don't want to pigeonhole myself. I love the work of Byron Katie. She's one of my mentors. I love the work of Satvatov. I love men's work. I love the tantra work that I'm involved in. So I don't want to make a website that's going to limit me. And so that's one of my obstacles. Another obstacle is I can't stand working at the computer. I like to be out in nature. Another obstacle is it's never good enough. And so I would let these obstacles argue with me and then I'd usually you have a coach to someone who's on your team like, come on, Scott, you can do this, tell them, stand up for yourself. And yeah we'd say go and then the obstacles would argue. And then when the obstacles got that, I was with a hundred percent of my being committed to my goal. Then they would sit down. Okay. Come to the point.

James Ainsworth:

Because yesterday I had a coaching session and we went through this process of, we realized that I've got resistance to little resistance to certain things, and she was saying, it's about that, that feeling of what was it, unfair, I, underneath the surface, there's a lot of, I feel a lot of unfairness. So she was getting me to talk about all the unfairness that I'm feeling. And then, to turn it around, and to ask me, Why is it fair? And by doing that and working out why it is fair, you start to create a list of gratitude for that thing.

Scott McGreger:

So it's the little

James Ainsworth:

things. Yeah. So it works quite well.

Scott McGreger:

Yeah. So you're describing a process of what we call in Sattva Tov alternate perspectives. So looking at something from another viewpoint, glass half full, half empty. So why is this way I'm being treated in this circumstance unfair? I can, my mind can find all the reasons why I'm right. That's what mine does. Mine is trying to service every minute, either telling us how to stay safe, the safety officer, or it can be of like, I have a belief. Nobody really likes me. They don't really want me here. And then it gives me all. Oh, yeah, this person. They canceled that meeting with you. And this person didn't invite you to a party 5 years ago. And then it might even be so supportive that will remind me of something from childhood. Yeah. The yeah. The mind. So it's nice to take the mind and say, Hey, mind, look at it from the other perspective. And then, yeah, it can also be our best friend or our worst enemy. That's a verse from the Bava Gita. But the mind is something for us to utilize as a tool, not worship as God.

James Ainsworth:

Yeah. Nice. I like that. It's that's quite a powerful statement. How did you really get from. Going from the temple to into mend work and joining the MKP.

Scott McGreger:

Oh, there was a step in between there. So I had gotten a book on my birthday and it was called Loving What Is by Byron Katie. And another monk in the temple gave it to me. He said, I think you'll like this book. And in there, one of the questions she asks in her process is, who would you be without this thought? And I'm like, I can do that. I can just pretend erase the thought. And yeah, I got really excited by the process. I started, I read her book. I started doing it. I was feeling a lot of freedom in my life. And at the time I was supposed to start flying from. Florida to Los Angeles once a month to participate in some governing body meetings. They're asking me to take on a more higher management role within the Hare Krishna movement. And I don't know, there's something inside me like this isn't what I got into it for. This isn't where my next step is. And instead of saying yes to that, I said yes to Byron Katie's 10 day school. So there's a real immersion in the process she calls the work, and the work is looking at our belief systems, bringing them out, what our subtle beliefs might be, that the only way to live in the world is win lose in order to get what I want, I have to take it from someone else, and I don't want to be a taker, so I'll just put away my desires. So to get clear about what those stories are that are going on subtly in our mind. And so in her workshop I had my mind blown. I blew my mind. And in that was a lot of freedom and authenticity and natural joy for life. Yeah, I felt like I was seeing God in every tree, every plant, every person that I came in contact with. It was a beautiful opening, and of course I went back to more regular consciousness, but it was still there in the sense that when I came back to the temple, I could not make myself do something I didn't want to do. There was no more obligation, no more people pleasing. There was no belief that anyone on the planet wanted me to do something I didn't want to do. So they'd ask me are you going to come hear the Swami speak tonight? I'm like, no, I'm going to go play basketball. And so they're like, oh my gosh, you're so honest. I would have, said, look, oh, I have to read the scriptures or something, but I had no one to impress, no obligation. And so being a leader in a community, that was the beginning of the end for me. I was definitely getting up earlier than I wanted to. I was chanting more of the mantras than I wanted to because I wanted to set an example. For the younger people in the temple, I wanted to set an example for what a good Hare Krishna is. But in that process, I had forgotten that, hey, an aspect of being a good Hare Krishna is being authentic. And so I was striving for a higher level of spiritual realization than I was at. And yeah, it was fake. So when I came to that real platform, some people were like, yay, Scott, so happy for you. And other people were like, You're doing it wrong, basketball's not going to get you to the spiritual world, chanting is. And so I saw that in order for me to continue my authentic path in life, I couldn't do it in that community. I couldn't do it where other people were being affected by my decisions. So I turned over my management to the temple. It was a long process of a year. But yeah, it was a necessary next step in my evolution. And I still have a nice connection. I enjoy being in a kirtan or meeting Hari Krishna's when I'm out and about. And it's, it'll always be in my heart. But yeah, the path of authenticity is the one I worship. And so that took me to Byron Katie. Okay. I got involved in her work, and we lived in the same town, Ojai, so I was fortunate to have some good training from her, and I continue to stay involved in that community, and I teach some of her workshops. And then someone asked me, they said, hey, you want to come to a men's group? I'm like, yeah. And the first time I went to the New Warrior Training Adventure, so Mankind Project has this three day rite of passage, which we are both graduates of. And in that space there was 40 men in the room. I got in that workshop and it's the first time I've ever been in a workshop or even a space like that with all men. I heard this voice come up like, if mom's not here, the men are going to kill each other. If there isn't a woman in the group. Yeah, I can't trust men. And I didn't realize I had that in me until I went into a workshop space or a setting where I was confronted with that belief. Yeah. And, and I had these beliefs like I'm younger than that guy. He's younger than me. We're different. Like I make more money than him. I, he's not like me. I had all these differences. And then after doing a few processes and hearing what, what's your fear in life? What's your joy in life? What, who are you as a person? The more I heard, I'm like, Oh, my God, you guys are just like me. And so for me, that was really a juncture in my life from seeing men as kind of competitors or competitors. acquaintances at best, but the people that I confided in were women up until that point. So I changed my relationship with men from a distant thing to yeah, I have support. I have the support of brothers that I can cry with, that I can laugh with, that I can ask for help from, and yeah, trust that they want me to succeed.

James Ainsworth:

Cause I remember when I did it, I did probably about, I think it was two years ago, but it was more the power of being in a room with a hundred men and to know that they all have your back, but at the same time. You are just like them. You are in the same situation as all these men are, and it's that ability to be able to speak your truth, to be able to talk about your emotions to be able to be honest and open, especially when it comes to the warrior work side of things, where you're truthful about a man, but you see a reflection, it's a reflection of you, and that's powerful.

Scott McGreger:

Yeah, thanks. Those are all great. They sound familiar to my experience too. Yeah, to have a space where you're with other men and you feel their support, you're able to open up about emotions rather than hide them for fear that you'll, they'll be used against you, call you a pussy or whatever, the wounds we had from our childhood relationships with other men. Yeah, it was it's like such a beautiful healing that takes place in those men's groups that way. Yeah. Yeah. And to feel that what was the last one you said?

James Ainsworth:

About the warrior side of things. So seeing a shadow in another person that is actually, it's an aspect of yourself.

Scott McGreger:

Thanks. That's also a a gift that I've gotten from Mankind Project, that my relationship with another man, if it becomes strained, I don't have to either hate him or run away from him or exclude him. I can address it in a healthy safe way. So yeah I'm frustrated at you, brother. This thing you did to me, brother, has hurt me and I'm mad at you about it. And then I can find that, ah, it's not you, brother. It's what happened to me as a child that you're reflecting or it's what I made it mean and, to hug at the end of that process. It's like such a beautiful affirmation that men don't have to be enemies when conflict comes up. We can work through it. We can find the gold that's there. We can build new relationships, agreements, trust to move forward with. It

takes

Scott McGreger:

a

James Ainsworth:

lot of courage, especially because from my own perspective, when you approach somebody and tell them how you feel, there's that vulnerability, especially if something is, it's a negative thing. And it's that it's that vulnerability to be able to tell them that I feel angry or there's an aspect of you that I hate. But it's not actually them it's, you're looking at it as part of yourself. And that leads on quite nicely to the next bit, which is, how do you define a healthy man?

Scott McGreger:

Yeah, thanks. Let's hold that healthy man because I yeah, what you said is so rich. It's like we haven't a system of process for Dealing with our thoughts and beliefs. So if I have a oh god, I can't stand James. He's so arrogant version that instead of like really like gossiping about you and enlisting other people, but he's arrogant, isn't he? You believe it too, right? Yeah. Instead of that approach, I can say, Hey, James, I'm having this situation where I'm judging you as arrogant. Will you help me explore this? And we might have a couple people supporting us in that process. And then you go through what's the data? What's the judgments? What's the feelings? And then the ownership, where am I arrogant? Because I can give you advice all day. Yeah, James, you'll be happier in life. You're a little more humble, but this is, we do this thing where you point one finger out, three are pointing back at you. So I think that process is that. That same logic that my judgments that I'm flinging out at the external world are really just for me inside and so where am I arrogant? Where am I arrogant? I don't even know if you have a family. I don't even know. There's so many things. I don't know about you. And so arrogance to me means self centeredness. And yeah, that's where I'm being arrogant in my relationship with you. I haven't taken time to find out about who you are as a man. What are your aspirations other than this awesome podcast that you're doing? So yay. I go away with something valuable. Our relationship gets built because I've been real with you rather than blaming you, making you wrong or the opposite, which I often do is just write you off, avoid your call. Yeah. We build relationships. Yeah. So if you segue into the question of what's a healthy man, I think a man that is in touch with his emotions, is willing, sees the value of being vulnerable, because it invests in relationships with other men. That vulnerable, vulnerability is the currency for building trust and connection, for building intimacy. Yeah. And for me, a healthy man, there's no such thing. It's a healthy man in community of men in the family. We build a healthy dad by having a healthy family, a healthy child has healthy parents, the health is not just within us, but it's our environment and our relationships.

James Ainsworth:

Yeah, that sounds, that's powerful. Can you explain a little bit more about that?

Scott McGreger:

I'm spiritual as anything, when I'm sitting on my couch, when I'm sitting on the sofa all alone, I am like so even keeled. Add a person to it who has maybe needs different than mine or different way of speaking or a different accent. All of a sudden it's more challenging than it starts to in the Hare Krishna movement. We cook with this thing called ghee. Ghee is made with butter. You put a bunch of butter in a pot, you turn the flame on low, just a small flame, and over the course of hours, the impurities in the butter rise to the top, and you could scoop them off, and then what you've got is a thing you can fry things in at a very high temperature, and they don't burn, so you have the best fried foods when you fry them in ghee, and it's rich it's total fat, there's nothing but fat so in the same way I feel like There's weeds in my heart. There's things in my heart, some impurities, some wounds some parts of me that, that need to be attended to, and they don't come out until there's friction, until there's the rubbing against another person, literally or figuratively, and in there, then I can be like, Huh, I don't like the way you did that. And so that brings up like, what is it in me that's needing to be attended to, needing to be expressed? And so for me spirituality doesn't take place in a vacuum. Anybody can meditate and sit on a yoga mat and do that thing. It's great. Now, can you do it with the person who just cut you off in traffic? Can you do it with that co worker who just took credit for the stuff that you feel you should have gotten credit for? That's practical spirituality. Someone told me, you want to give someone a spiritual test, you take a camera and follow them around for the day. Because spirituality isn't about like, how good I can meditate, or what I eat, or something like that. Spirituality is about how I deal with conflict, how I deal with expressing myself in the world. When I'm challenged with something that doesn't match my comfort zone, do I make them wrong Republicans hate Democrats or, there's so much divisiveness and that's like a base level, and the Ken Wilber system. We want to come up to the higher levels of synthesis of cooperation of what are the common needs that both of these people have. Oh, yeah, you feel strongly about creating a world where there's safety, where there's respect for each other. Yeah, I have those values too, rather than just argue that we have a different candidate that we want to support.

James Ainsworth:

That's that's powerful because there's the idea that, as you said, you can be as spiritual or as anything as you want when you're by yourself. But the work is being able to do it out there. And there's a couple of places there's a place called Oshalia down in Dorset, which is pretty much a personal, for the people who are listening, it's a personal and spiritual development centre. And it's got its own bubble. Now it's great you can do all the work there, but then the next bit is to take that work that you did there out into the real world and to do it in real time circumstances where people some people get angry, some people get really emotional, and to be able to maintain that out in front of people is the key.

Scott McGreger:

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. It's a great way to express it. And I feel like those tools, like you described earlier, the tool of owning my projections of having a clearing of withhold, withheld energy with me and another person, those are the tools that help me maintain that, that centeredness, that connection with myself when I'm challenged in those other circumstances. So we don't learn this language, Okay. When we're in school, this isn't something taught in the curriculum growing up. But for me, these are essential skills for being a good human being for enjoying life to the fullest extent for being able to fulfill my human potential. And so like nonviolent communication the things I learned in Sattva Tov workshop the Buddhist practices or the Byron Katie approach to relating to my thoughts. And something that came up today was with talking with a friend is I don't need to figure out like how to succeed in my career or succeed in my relationships or all these different areas. I just need to have 1 thing that I work on. And that 1 thing is my relationship with fear because it, it pervades everything my fear. She's going to leave me or my fear that someone's going to think I'm a bad person because I'm bisexual or whatever. My fears might be. If I deal with my relationship with fear, then all of those things will be addressed. My fear to put out a website, my fear to, Stein bigger in the world or whatever it is, what's my relationship with fear? And so I'm really excited by this idea that anything I want in life. It's all just have to hinge on this one thing. What's my relationship with fear? Is it something that I run away from, I hide from, I distract from, I smoke marijuana to get away from? Or is it something that I have curiosity about and I'm going into it? And fear, you're welcome. You're welcome here. Yeah, I can do a website with fear. I can put on a workshop from America and that fear that nobody's going to come. And yeah, it's with me.

James Ainsworth:

Yeah, I start to see fear now as the unknown. Because inside fear, there's this idea that you don't know what's going to happen. Because the near reason fear is coming in is because it's in a place which is unpredictable. And when I feel fear feels very stagnated, it feels very hard, whereas the unknown, changing the fear to the unknown, is a sense of excitement, sense of joy, sense of let's go, what's in, what's, what can I explore, what can I do?

Scott McGreger:

Nice. Yeah. Nice. There's a concept in David's book, Relationships at Work, that's language reflects consciousness. Yeah. So the words I'm using reflect what's going on inside of me. If I say, Oh, I'm shit at mathematics. I don't understand numbers at all. So that's creating my reality. So what I heard for you is this word fear. It has so much connotation. It's a bad thing. And so if you change that word to unknown, yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what's going to happen there. That it feels softer. It feels more expansive. A little bit. Even lens possibility for curiosity, adventure, and excitement. I'm

James Ainsworth:

not sure if somebody is going to judge me. I'm not sure if people are going to name call me. I'm not sure if I walk out my front door, I'm going to hit by a car as an example. But it's the idea that if we get caught enough. Thinking of fear is going to own me, then we get to a point where we don't do anything. And so it's almost like embracing, not allowing fear to hold us back, but embracing it as something that can help us to grow.

Scott McGreger:

Yeah, information. Yeah, someone said to me, because I was doing some work with a coach on this upcoming workshop and hosting it. It's a big financial commitment for myself. Plus, it's, a lot of work telling people like they can't even pronounce the workshop. Satva Tov. Satva is a Sanskrit word meaning goodness. And so when I looked at that fear, it's like we walked into what could happen. And we do this in mankind project in the process called what's at risk. What's at risk if you don't change? What's at risk if you do change? So if I do the workshop and no one comes, what's at risk? I lose a couple thousand pounds, I feel sad for a little bit, and I go on with my life. I can live through that. Yeah, what's at risk if I really go for it? And, yeah, it's totally successful. Yeah, last year I filled it, 30 people, that was the full capacity of the place I rented. I still have people in my life telling me about the realizations they had from that workshop and how they've stepped more into things that they were afraid to do in their life because of overcoming internal blocks.

James Ainsworth:

And you taught, what's the workshop about? The

Scott McGreger:

workshop starts with listening skills. Do I know the difference between listening, advising, consoling, sympathizing? How is empathy different from sympathy? Because this is, since 1999 I've been involved in this question and I continue to be excited. By how much richness there is, the more that I can listen to a person deeply. If I'm bored with a person, to me that means I'm not listening to them. I might be hearing the words, but I'm not opening to the somatic energy, to all the information, because the information that comes across from another person, you've probably seen that pie chart before, it's 7 percent is the words we use. And by 28 percent is the inflection, the speed, the pace, the other things. And then 70 percent of it is not to do with words or sounds at all. It's the energy coming from the person. It's the facial features. There's so much information that we can learn somatically, energetically. And so the more the I learn about these practices of deep listening, the richer my life is. And yeah, so I'm excited to, to bring, cause I, I experienced David Wolf as being a master at this. He's a great facilitator and trainer and to have him here and my little old town in Wales just feels like a blessing. And so after we've got those skills of listening, then we can start to create the safety. Because when someone feels safe to express themselves, then we can get start taking off the masks and looking at what are the masks I wear in life. What are the personas that I feel comfortable showing another person, but it's not my full self. It's not my full authentic self as a full authentic self would include those things vulnerable, sad, insecure the, when I start to be comfortable allowing into my being, then they integrate. And they have less power. Sometimes the analogy is given of a beach ball, like you hold down a beach ball under the water, and it takes work to hold it down. And like the stripes on the beach ball are emotions, so fear, anger, sadness, joy. And so I don't want anyone to see I'm an angry. I'm an angry man. I anger. I don't want anyone to see that. Then I'm holding down that anger. So no one sees it, but it's taking away some of my energy. And if I take my mind off it, it'll pop back up and then I'll get pissed off. Angry at my son for spilling milk, and this is like, Dad, chill out. The process in Sadhvotov is to start to quit beachballing our emotions instead of pushing them into the darkness, to start to feel them, to start to be curious about them, to, to look at, like, where is it coming from and what would it look like to live a life of more authenticity? And within that, there's a lot of. Exercises and games that we do, like these simple games that all of a sudden, by playing that game, I realize so much about myself. How am I viewing other people? How am I viewing myself and the world? And it's quite profound. Super experiential. What I learned from David, because of my facilitator training, was with him. And then I came into Mankind Project and other things with that background. We don't tell anyone. anything. There's no like blackboard and you're saying, so this is what you should do. And this is shadow work. And this is this it's doing it. Okay. We're going to, we're going to personify our obstacles. You're going to do this ready go. And then we process afterwards and what people learned and we get to share from each other using I statements and nothing about making it a religion or making it a philosophy. This is just my heartfelt experience by hearing another person's heartfelt experience. I may be like, Oh, I'm going to take that with that gem, that wisdom home. But yeah, really experiential. I like that about David's work.

James Ainsworth:

What are the dates for this?

Scott McGreger:

January 9th through 12th and you can ninth through 12 find it. Maybe we can put the link sat vov whales, that's S-A-T-V-A sattva, TOVE to muzzle to ov whale.org.

James Ainsworth:

I'll put a link in the show notes. So then they can click on the show notes and then yeah, follow the link to the page. That's not an issue. Thanks James. Do you run any retreats and what else do you do?

Scott McGreger:

Yeah, Lawrence Johns from Mankind Project who I know has been on your show too. He and I do an annual or maybe sometimes twice a year men's retreat at my family's land here close by. That's called Dudes in the Dome. We put up a geodesic dome as our workshop area before, and so that name stuck. Yeah, it's a great blend of process, work, community, being in nature, just having shared meals with a group of guys being real with each other. It's so healing. And then, yeah, there's a river there so we can do some Wim H. Cold water immersion and other things that bring aliveness and joy. And yeah, so that's something we do within the men's work area. I teach workshops here in Landry Dodd Wells on Byron Cady, the process of doing the work, Subbatobe Listening Workshops, and then I've been bringing David here for the last two years.

James Ainsworth:

Nice. I think the more that we can submerge ourselves in men's work, I think the more enriched our life is going to be.

Scott McGreger:

Yeah. You've gotten a lot out of the men's work, haven't you?

James Ainsworth:

A lot. Thank you very much, Scott.

Scott McGreger:

Oh, James, thank you. Yeah, I really appreciate that you're making this like a priority in your life of giving this information of things that have helped you giving it to others who might be newer on the path and want some tips and things. And yeah, it's been a pleasure to meet you and look forward to more.

James Ainsworth:

Thank you very much.

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