Man: Quest to Find Meaning
Man: A Quest to Find Meaning is the podcast for men who feel stuck, disconnected, or uncertain about their place in the world — and are ready to reconnect with purpose, emotional strength, and a more authentic way of being.
Hosted by [Your Name], each episode explores the deeper questions of modern masculinity through honest, unfiltered conversations. You’ll hear from men who’ve overcome inner battles — and from women offering powerful perspectives that challenge, inspire, and expand how we think about growth, relationships, and healing.
From purpose and vulnerability to fatherhood, fear, and identity — this is a space for men who want more than just surface-level success. It’s for those on a journey to live with intention, courage, and truth.
New episodes weekly. Real talk. No ego. Just the quest.
Man: Quest to Find Meaning
Navigating Love, Masculinity & Self-Discovery with Shakti Sundari
Are Modern Men Struggling with Love, Purpose & Emotional Connection?
In this deep, eye-opening conversation, I sit down with renowned love coach and embodiment teacher Shakti Sundari to explore the challenges modern men face in relationships, confidence, and self-growth. As my first female guest on Man: A Quest to Find Meaning, Shakti shares powerful insights into modern masculinity, emotional intelligence, and how men can break free from limiting beliefs to cultivate deeper relationships and personal fulfillment.
🔹 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
✅ How men can build confidence and redefine success on their terms
✅ The hidden impact of childhood conditioning on love, self-worth, and emotional intimacy
✅ Why men struggle with expressing emotions—and how to break free from societal expectations
✅ The real effects of porn addiction, loneliness, and emotional disconnection in men
✅ How movement and conscious dance can help unlock masculine & feminine energy
✅ How to cultivate self-awareness and create fulfilling relationships
🚀 If you’re struggling with dating, emotional connection, or feeling stuck in life, this episode is for you!
🎧 Listen now to gain practical tools to break free from self-doubt, build healthy relationships, and start living with purpose.
About Shakti Sundari:
Shakti Sundari is a love coach, writer, trailblazing wise woman & skilful curator of embodied awakening with a mission to bring more love, awareness and unity to life through the teaching & embodiment of tantric principles.
She published her first book - RAPTURE: A Guide to Sexual & Spiritual Awakening for Women - in 2020 and founded the Conscious Dating Collective at the start of 2025.
Instagram: @shaktisundari
In this week's episode, we take a deep dive into why men struggle with emotional connection. We talk about how your deepest pain can actually unlock your purpose, and the secret to confidence and attraction has nothing to do with chasing or proving yourself. Welcome to Man: A Quest to Find Meaning, where we help men navigate modern life, find their true purpose, and redefine manhood. I'm your host, James, and each week, inspiring guests share their journeys of overcoming fear Embracing vulnerability and finding success. From experts to everyday heroes. Get practical advice and powerful insights. Struggling with career, relationships or personal growth? We've got you covered. Join us on Man Quest to Find Meaning. Now, let's dive in.
James:Today I literally have my first woman on this podcast, and it's Shakti Sundari. How are you, Shakti?
Shakti Sundari:I'm great, thank you. I'm really, really excited. I'm honoured to be your first female guest. It's a great honour.
James:So. The whole point of this episode and what I'm thinking in the whole of March is going to be based on the topic of relationships. So, let's start off with, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Shakti Sundari:Okay, so, um, my current iteration of who I am in the world and what I'm showing up as is a love coach. But basically for the last 20 years, um, and a little bit more, so 20 plus years, I've been teaching different forms of embodied awareness, like conscious dance, yoga, and tantra, and focusing on conscious relating or authentic relating. within that. Um, before that I was, uh, in academia and before that I worked in business. So it's kind of like, this is like my third career really in terms of my life stages, but it's become my absolute, absolute passion. Um, this whole topic of love relating and intimacy.
James:So what actually got you into all this conscious dance and, um, love and relationships?
Shakti Sundari:Well, um, I guess in a nutshell, uh, the conscious dance was something that was just, I'm, I've always loved to move. I've always been very embodied. I've been an athlete. So that was something of me just pursuing a passion. But what that did, because it was a conscious dance practice, which means bringing awareness to what you're doing, rather than just doing something automatically, it began to. Wake things up in me that I hadn't been aware of until that point. And then in kind of in tandem with that, I was in my second marriage at the same time. Um, I had children. And then that marriage began to get rocky, kind of in tandem with me for the first time exploring what it is to be conscious or aware in the body, and that marriage ended, and also there was a lack of intimacy at the end of that marriage, um, and then I sort of got to the point where I thought, right, the common denominator here is me. This is the second marriage. I'm a single mom. I've got two young children. There's something here that I need to figure out about relationships and about myself. And, um, you know, I hadn't been intimate with my husband for four years. And that, you know, sex intimacy was something that was really important to me and meaningful to me. So it was kind of also in hand in hand with that was like, how do I make sense of my desire for sexual intimacy? and healthy relationship. And then the third part is, and how do I integrate that with being a more spiritual or a more conscious being? How do I bring all of these three different things together? And that's, so I started off just exploring for myself to find meaning and to find healing. And then, you know, my mind was just blown open by all the things that I discovered. And I was like, Why did nobody tell me this? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. You know.
James:It's, it's almost like you've been on this, well, it is, you've been on this path of self discovery, of learning about relationships, and in the end, finding a purpose.
Shakti Sundari:Yes, exactly. This is exactly how they say, you go from your karma to your dharma. You know, because I, I discovered that the root, and this is the same for everybody, the root of all the issues or problems or challenges or difficulties that I was having very much lay with, you know, my formative years, like my childhood, the way that I was parented, the family that I grew up in, the dynamics of relating that were modeled, um, what love meant in that family unit and in the society that I was a part of, and so, um, you know, that's kind of, the difficulties stem from that to a large extent. Um, so that was like my pain became my gift, if you see what I mean. And that's, yeah.
James:Yeah. And I remember, I think it was probably two, three, four months ago, I interviewed, um, one of my guests and he was talking about how your biggest pain It's all about, it's your purpose because once you are able to dig into that pain, you are able to find a way to overcome it and you're able to help others to do the same too.
Shakti Sundari:Yeah, absolutely. Totally. That's, that's kind of a core belief of mine and it's something I actually teach. Um, I call it the principle of the gift. So it's like your deepest wounding, your deepest challenge, the thing that you think is the biggest fuck up in your life. is actually an invitation to your greatness. And I, you know, people can say that, um, and just understand it at a mind level, but I've understood that on a lived level. I've come to know that is true. So, yeah,
James:it's, I can over last, I think it's been eight years, 2016. Yeah. Eight years. And to be honest, Massive, uh, growth of spiritual and, uh, personal development, and what I'm noticing is that step by step, I'm slowly figuring out what I'm meant to do, but it all comes down to that idea of self discovery and being able to step into the worst parts of ourselves. The shadows, but also, I suppose, at the same time, it's also accepting in the light parts. So, kind of having a whole balance of everything, but at very deep crutches of ourselves, that's what I believe is What we're here, what we're meant to teach, what we're meant to really go into, what we're supposed to explore. And yes, it's painful, and it's terrifying, but it becomes easier. It becomes easier, and then it just, yeah, it's one of those things.
Shakti Sundari:It does become easier, and I have to also say, it's not like I ever set out with the intention of like, Oh, I'm going to teach Tantra. I'm going to teach conscious relating, like that was never part of like a blueprint that came from the mind in terms of a strategy. You know, for me, it was very much, I would see something and I just felt this. This, like, with the conscious dance, which is how it all started off, really, I just went to a class, and I thought, I fucking love this, I want to teach it. And I just didn't think about it, it was just such a strong, I need to teach this. And I followed that impulse. And then every other step, for me, was just I had an inner impulse, like a calling or a knowing or a sense of like, yes, inside my body, which told me to follow it. So it wasn't like a master plan that, you know, somebody had engineered for me or I sort of wrote down the steps like this and then this and then this and then this. And it included. You know, along the way, lots of moments where I really couldn't see the wood for the trees, and I thought I was completely lost, and I thought, you know, I was at my lowest ebb, I was hopeless, I was crying my eyes out, I was on the floor, like, literally heartbroken many times, you know, so it involved going through those deepest, darkest Um, sort of bottom, like being at the real bottom of, of everything, you know, like going through that many times as well without understanding the meaning of it, without understanding why. And I even, I remember saying like, why is this happening to me? Why is this happening to me? It doesn't seem fair. I remember having that thought quite a few times. It's not fair. Why is this happening? I've done all the right things. Why is this still happening? You know?
James:Yeah, I can, I can relate to them in relationships, so I've been through quite a few relationships, but each time it's almost like a stepping stone. I've gone on to the next, but kind of slightly leveled up, and then again, and then again. But I see people who go from relationship to relationship to relationship, and from my own perspective, it's kind of, I feel as though when you come out of a relationship, my personal opinion is that it's down to you to do the work. In order that you don't have the same happen again.
Shakti Sundari:For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, for me, that was kind of one of the biggest switches that's taken place over all these years of like, studying and teaching and like, fucking up. Uh, and I really want to make, like, really clear to everyone, like, I fucked up so many times and now I just very happily own it because I think it's like a teaching for everybody else that we, we can't, you know, we're imperfect, we're imperfect and perfect. But it's like the biggest switch for me was going from thinking it was everybody else's fault or, you know, it was, it's because of this, but like pointing to something outside of me. The biggest shift has been like those fingers of like, you know what they say? Like when you point your finger, like you've got four fingers pointing back at you and then I like literally through the process of repeating patterns that were very painful and very challenging, realizing, well, it can't be just all about them. There's got to be something here that's about me and like taking it all back. So getting to the point where I really own everything in my life. I'm responsible for. Everything in my life, I create. Everything in my life, you know, it's up to me to choose and determine and how I respond, how I react, how I think. It's all up to me.
James:So with regards to, so obviously this is towards men. And what I was thinking with regards to this session today, we could perhaps start to move the switch and kind of navigate how men can really step and start to own. Their own responsibilities, but also to own themselves. So, with regards to men generally, what are some of the biggest challenges that men face when navigating today's fast paced world? Especially when there's so much disconnection.
Shakti Sundari:Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it is a challenging situation out there. But again, you know, you can use the word challenge or you can use the word opportunity. And I would prefer to see it as an opportunity. Everything is shifting. So society is moving at such a fast pace. There's all this technology everywhere. The way that people meet and relate has changed dramatically in the last 10, 20 years, like, you know, so much has gone online and yet we all know there's an epidemic of loneliness. particularly for men. And from what I'm seeing, and this isn't just my own personal perspective, because I'm reading and listening to other podcasts and, you know, really curious, there is this epidemic of loneliness and men wanting to connect, but not really, um, or having having difficulty understanding how to make that happen. And, um, so I see that and You know, I can also see this as a wonderful opportunity for all of us to actually really kind of inquire like what is it I actually want and how do I make that happen and seeing that the way the world is set up isn't necessarily like there are some things aren't so healthy about that. Um, and. You know, that, that it starts, it starts with you and it starts with making changes and complaining about the way things are isn't gonna change it. So it's gonna be up to you to figure out, like, how do I shift, how do I shift this reality? And shifting this reality starts with me and how I engage with other people and how I engage with life and how much I use technology and how much I use porn. And it requires some, like, asking yourself some really hard, honest questions. Because I think that it's very easy to avoid those hard questions, um, and, and sort of go into being a victim. And the hard questions are, you know, basically, are you avoiding your own pain? Are you avoiding your own loneliness? Are you avoiding your own desire for connection? Are you using, um, superficial connection? Are you using dating apps? Are you using porn to actually try and fulfill this need for connection, but not really meeting that deeper need underneath that. You know, and, and then that requires becoming a little bit vulnerable to admit what's underneath that desire and to recognize that we all want to connect. It's like a human need. It's a human desire and there's nothing shameful about that. I think, um, there can be, uh, particularly for men, this sense of like, I have to have it all together. I have to know all the answers. I can't show what might be perceived as a weakness. Um, you know, and just like, just me speaking up recently about wanting to date. Everyone said to me, oh, that's so courageous of you. And I'm like, why is that courageous? You know, it's my truth. I would love to date somebody, but people see that as a courageous thing to say. Um, so it's quite interesting.
James:Let's, actually, let's, now I've got the opportunity, let's step into the vulnerability, because I can, I can feel fear within inside me, and I, I can admit that I've had, I've had in the past a porn problem, and again, there's still times when I do have a porn problem, but from my own perspective, and I'm delving a little bit deeper into this.
Yeah.
James:It is a sense, there's a disconnect to the, to the idea of porn, and at the same time there's this idea underneath it's loneliness, but underneath that, it can be a sense of lack of love.
Shakti Sundari:Yeah, okay, so, um, there's a few things I can respond to there, so, um, I don't want to shame anybody. Right? And I think shame is such a strong inhibitor of well being and connection. And it is an emotion that everybody feels. So, um, when I talk about porn, I know it's a big issue, but I also don't want any man listening to feel that I'm trying to shame him. I get the reasons behind why that's appealing. Um, and also men and women are different in my, you know, in my understanding, right? And I also know from what I've studied and experienced that, that kind of when you get into an addictive relationship with that, um, way of engaging. It's really not healthy for your mental, emotional, or spiritual well being, and it's not going to meet that need that you have for connection. So, the fear, like, fear is something that's going to come up when somebody kind of says something, like I'm saying, that might feel a bit confronting. Because then the invitation is, you know, what am I really looking for? And that's when the vulnerability comes, because it's like, underneath that, there's like, oh, I'd really just love To have someone accept me for who I am. I'd really love to have somebody listen to, to me. I'd really love to have somebody care about me. I'd really love some physical touch. I'd really love to express my sexuality. And I don't know how to make that happen with real people, you know, so there's, there is a vulnerability there. There's the, uh, that I, that I perceive, um, and that is really beautiful because it creates an opening. It creates a potential for, um, for a more honest way of being with yourself and creates an invitation to change something and to take some courageous steps. Um, and I think it's important for us to exploring, well, how do I connect with people face to face, how I do I connect with people in the flesh, rather than online, you know, how do I do it, and opening up to beginning to explore that and knowing that you will feel uncomfortable.
James:So in the short terms, obviously, how can men start to feel connected when they perhaps don't have anybody around them to feel connected? So how can they go about and explore that?
Shakti Sundari:Okay, so, um, the first thing I would say to that is that if you're looking for all of this connection outside of you, there's an element of that that I would say is unhealthy. And disempowered so I'm just going to be really straight and will lead to you probably having a Um, less successful relationships because you're looking to get something from, assuming you're heterosexual, but you know, you could be any, any, um, you know, sexuality, but if I'm assuming you're a heterosexual, then you're looking to get something from a woman rather than show up in your wholeness, in your fullness. In your self care, in your self love, in your I'm already worthy, to connect with another woman who is the same as that. If you're looking to take, if you're looking to get, to fulfill, like, to fill something that's empty inside you, it's going to create a dysfunctional dynamic. So the first part is to recognize what you need, and to give that to yourself, and to begin to cultivate a sense of worthiness. Well being, self love, self care for yourself. That's the most important thing. And I would say the same to a woman, actually. Because, you know, you might think, um, like, one's better than the other, or one's higher or lower. Everybody I speak to, really fundamentally, like, there are differences between men and women. But ultimately, we all have the same shadows. We all have the same light. We all have the same potential. We all have the same issues. And we all long for connection and love. You know, ultimately. But it starts with self care, self love, self worth. So, so, like if you're in a situation where you don't feel good about yourself. What can you do to begin to build your confidence? What can you do to begin to take care of your body? Um, what can you do to begin to cultivate a better mental state? So things like meditation, things like working out, things like doing activities that you really enjoy, pursuing a hobby that, that makes you feel accomplished. So you begin to develop this for yourself. Um, and then when you go into connection, you know, there's less anxiety, there's less need, there's less grabbing, less trying to get something. And then the sexuality is the other part of that because I don't want to deny that and I like to be very open about this because it's a really important part of our being human is our sexuality. Um, and it's not to repress or deny that aspect of yourself, but it is to understand that your sexual energy and your sexual desire are yours. And you are responsible for them. And again, not to, um, make somebody else responsible for your sexual, uh, well being. There are many ways that a man can learn to channel his sexual energy and self pleasure, for example, and, and begin to fill his whole body with, with that energy so that he feels more empowered, more alive, more virile, um, more healthy, um, you know, they're, they're There are ways to do that. I don't want to go into too much depth now, but I hope that answers your question.
James:Yeah, yeah. Um, because I noticed when, when you were continually watching porn, there's this idea that you almost treat women as a piece of meat. And there's this idea that you get, men go out. are nights out for the simple reason to go into, as people say, get laid.
Yeah.
James:And that's not really I suppose from doing a lot of personal and spiritual growth, I've come to learn that it's, it becomes very unhealthy. And it's, it's that idea that you're just going out for a simple thing, not even to connect to that person. You've got, you've got one goal in mind. And But again, I think from a man's perspective, it's almost, it's almost ingrained into us in a little, in a little bit from societies, obviously getting a little bit more stricter on things like porn, but it's so, it's so, it's so big and so fast and it's so almost in your face.
Yeah.
James:And then there's the idea that when you start talking about porn with friends or family, uh, or in schools, it's almost a taboo subject. So you can't even, it's the idea of shame, keeping it to yourself.
Shakti Sundari:Yeah, exactly. Well, that's that's the thing and that's what they're banking on because I just want to highlight like, you know, in a way, just think about it from the highest perspective in terms of who's making money out of this, like, I don't know the exact figures, but it's one of the biggest, if not the biggest industry, they're making so much money out of men's addiction to it. And like you say, it's, um, so think of yourself like being caught up in that energetically and being exploited. It's. Like your desire is being exploited and you're not really finding a place of fulfillment and you probably end up feeling shit afterwards as well because then you probably start judging yourself for what has happened, right? So it's not a healthy dynamic for you. And the thing about the objectification as well, that is so true. And of course, um, it's what then gets in the way of a real connection because Um, from a woman's perspective, like, a woman yearns for a man's presence. A woman yearns to be seen by her partner and to be seen for who she is, not to be seen as a sexual object. A woman will open. This is the irony that I really wish men would get, it's like a woman will open to a man sexually if she feels seen, which means her whole self, not just like a means to an end, and appreciated and respected and cared for, safe. So seen and safe. If a woman feels seen and safe. She is way more likely to open sexually, so you have to understand we are opposite, we are different, it's kind of the other way around. And, um, the more, in general, the more that a man approaches a woman with that, if it's only coming, like, with the sexual intention, we can feel it, it's obvious. And it's, it's like walls will go up and then you wonder why you're not connecting. Well, that's why if you instead reign that energy in and realize that it is yours and you can still have the energy in your body, but you're not like transmitting it out and you see with and basically bring that energy into your heart. Then you begin to understand and realize like, oh, this is a human being. This is another soul. This is another person who has issues like I have. This is somebody who might be very sensitive. Like you begin to see them as a whole person. And you respect them just with curiosity, and not with a very blunt objective, they are far more likely to be open to talking to you. Because women are very sensitive, we can feel these things intuitively in our field. So if a stranger starts talking to me, and I can kind of feel like he's only wants one thing, I'm not going to want to talk to him. If he starts talking to me with genuine curiosity and genuine interest in who I am, My guard will slowly come down and I'm sensing all the time. Is he safe? Is he safe? Is he safe? Does he just want one thing? Is he safe? Is he safe? And the more safe I feel the more I will respond by relaxing my guard and opening and giving you what you want And it's not like a conscious thing. But what what men crave is feminine energy, which is playfulness Joy, flirtation, happiness, expression, um, laughter, like warmth, love, connection. That's what men crave from the feminine. And we can only be in that if we feel safe and if we feel seen and respected. So it's, it's kind of like ironically what everyone's doing is getting in their own way.
James:So, what other challenges do men face in relationships, but especially in a world where. Men's masculinity is being redefined.
Shakti Sundari:Right. Um, can you say the question again one more time, please?
James:So, we've obviously mentioned about porn and some other things. So what other challenges do men face in a world where masculinity is changing on such a big, big way?
Shakti Sundari:Right. So, the fact that, that, um, masculine identity is changing is a good thing. Um, it's a bit destabilizing and I can see the effect of that destabilization for men around the world at the moment. And it seems to be creating a lot of polarity. So in the one hand, you have men kind of going into the incel extreme of hating women and blaming women and staying really stuck in a very resentful, angry, victim consciousness, which, um, is, I find sad and You know, because underneath that is a lot of pain, is a lot of pain and grief and loneliness and a sense of stuckness and not knowing how to get out of it. Um, and on the other hand, then there's this question. It's like, Oh, women want me to be more feminine or to be more soft or to be more understanding, but then they don't like it when I'm too soft. So like, what else, what the fuck am I supposed to do? I don't know. I don't know. What, what am I supposed to do then? So I really get that. Um, um, and the other thing I want to say is it's also really good that the sort of the patriarchal paradigm that has dominated for so long is shifting. You know, because the way I see it, we're moving towards a world where there is ultimately, it might not look like it, more love, more understanding, and more respect and honoring between men and women, where we really see, like, you are my brother. You are my sister. We're not here to fight each other. We're here to co create a beautiful world together. We're here to co create beautiful relationships together. So that's the potential. It's happening and that's what we're moving towards more and more and more. We're not there as a whole society yet. Um, it does require inner work and it does require contemplation and it does require getting vulnerable and beginning to do things like, um, looking for role models. Who do you see in the world? Who is a strong role model of a healthy masculine. So the thing with patriarchy is that, um, it basically is a shadow expression of the positive forms of masculinity. So being leading. Living on purpose, being driven. These are all great qualities that from what I hear, women desiring men, we want you to step up. We want you to take the lead. We want you to, um, feel a sense of honor to protect those that you care about, you know, these are qualities that are very positive. But what's happened in the patriarchal world is it's gotten out of balance and only the shadow forms are kind of like if you look at the primary male leaders in the world right now, a lot of them that they're kind of is so out of balance because they have lost connection with their feminine qualities as well. So it's a bit of rebalancing that needs to happen between. So when I talk about the feminine, what I mean is your body. Uh, your emotions and your sexuality and for a lot of men there's a disconnect or a cutoff between those aspects of your being and the more masculine aspects such as your mind and your willpower, for example, and your sort of your drive. Um, so going to men's groups, looking for role models, doing the inner work to explore what shaped you to be the man that you are, you know, understanding that the way you've been parented and your culture and your society have shaped you. And I think there does need to be some inquiry around toxic masculinity. Um, some people don't like that phrase, but like, what does that mean? And where can I take ownership and how can I step up so that women do feel safe in the world? How can I call my brothers out when I see them behaving in a way that I know is going to be hurtful or damaging to a woman? And how can I cultivate honor and love for myself so that I am willing to stand up and be different? Because I, I do think it does take a lot of courage. You know, there can be this sort of buddy mentality or the pack mentality for men. Like I've got, just to say, I've got a son and a daughter, so I've seen them grow up. They're in their early twenties now. My son is an athlete, so he was always with a bunch of male athletes. And, you know, there is that locker room talk that happens. So how do you, in that environment, have the strength of character, which is very masculine, to, to stand in your truth? You know, integrity is a very masculine quality to be in your integrity and say, actually, guys, I really don't like the way that you're talking about. So, and so right there, you know, it's not respectful. How do you do that without becoming so rigid that, you know, that that's kind of been tipping into a shadow. But those are some of the things I would, I would say that I would highlight.
James:So one thing, one thing I love to do, I love to do conscious dance, like yourself, and what I noticed, I went to, um, a dance a weekend on Sunday, and there was a girl that I admired on the dance floor, but what I kind of noticed was that it wasn't necessarily me. The woman herself, it was some of that aspect, so there was the aspect of beauty, the aspect of courage, aspect of, uh, flow, and, uh, yeah, them kind of aspects. So, sometimes I feel as though I almost project those things, them positive aspects of myself onto this other person. Which gives you that idea that, okay, I like this woman. So then I was allowing myself, in that dance, to own those parts, to own that inner beauty, to own the courage, to own the elegance, and allow this, these aspects to really change how I was dancing. And so I was able to nicely, I was starting to delve a little bit deeper into the divine masculine and divine feminine and allowing both parts to sync as I danced, which is quite a profound experience because you could see the difference. So the divine feminine, you're more flowy, you're slower, you're, it's kind of the elegance. Whereas in the Divine Masculine, it's a lot more, a lot more faster paced. It's kind of like a bit more erratic. There was a sense of, um, allowing that masculine energy of tribal music to really, really come out. And I think dance, Is a great way to explore these male, these masculine and feminine traits and to explore yourself as a person.
Shakti Sundari:For sure. I mean, you know, I'm a dancer and it's like my absolute passion. So I'm dancing all the time and going to things like static dance and five rhythms, which are like moving meditation practices. And you're right. Um, and I really, so there's two things that I would draw from what you've just said. So the first thing that you said was about projection and that's a really important point that you've made. Which is that we tend to project onto other people or onto our partners both the qualities that we desire um And the qualities that we hate so we tend to project them onto other people. Um, and Exactly that really what that is is those people are mirroring back to us I desire to be that, which means it's already within you somewhere. And I reject that part of me, which is when you, when you kind of judge and hate on people, it's actually, you're rejecting something that's, that's active within you. Right. So being aware of what you're projecting is really helpful for healthy relating. Then the other part is your body. So And this is something that's so important for men because, yeah, you tend to be more in your heads. And one of the key things that's going to help you connect better with yourself, and then with others, and with women, is to be more embodied and to begin to cultivate that balance of body and mind as one. Which is like, if you want to shorthand it, it's like Feminine and masculine as one. And then the final part that you said about, you know, like dancing, you're feminine and dancing, you're masculine. And like, what does it like to have them together? I love that. I do that myself. So sometimes, you know, I feel lonely. Sometimes I feel horny. Um, so when I go dancing, I imagine myself dancing with my inner masculine. And like, I imagine us making love inside my body while I'm dancing. So that I'm not, like, hooking onto the men in the space to get that from them. I create it for myself. And then, you know what the interesting thing is? I remember this so clearly. I remember doing this one day. I went to the five rhythms and I was like dancing with my inner masculine and I was just basically then so complete because there wasn't an emptiness. There wasn't a void. There wasn't a need. There wasn't a looking like, Oh, where are the good looking men in the space? I was like, so in myself and like with myself. And then I had never had so many good looking, gorgeous men come up and dance with me as on that night that I was. It like fully within my own fullness and juiciness and inner making love. It was just really, really interesting to observe that happening. So I can imagine it would, of course, work the other way around as well. If you're not like, you know, where's all the hot girls and you're
like
Shakti Sundari:the hotness with yourself and having a really great dance that it's going to be more attractive to then, you know, it's kind of like the opposite to what people are doing. Like we said before.
James:It's again, it's about being, being in your own frame. So rather than projecting your energy out to that person or a person over there, it's bringing your energy back. And I think dance is probably, for me, from my own personal perspective, dance has helped me to go from when I first started conscious dance three, three years ago, being in my head. To literally now, whenever I dance, it probably takes me two or three songs to get into my body. And then, it's just allowing, then the body almost directs what, it kind of directs what, where, basically, yeah. It directs where you're going. It flows. And there's this idea that, um, You might feel angry, or you might feel sad, or you might feel grief, and it's an opportunity to connect and accept these emotions.
Shakti Sundari:Mm hmm. Yes. And, yeah. Sorry, sorry I interrupted you. Go on. Go on,
James:carry on.
Shakti Sundari:I just got excited. It's just such a good way to move energy, because emotion is energy, right? And if we don't allow ourselves To acknowledge any emotion and repress it, which men do more than women, they kind of like, Oh, I can't show emotion, like keep it inside. I want to tell you that that emotion is going to stay in your physical body. It will stay in your tissues. It will stay in your organs. It will be here and it will, um, shut you down. So you'll be less. able to feel. Less able to feel means less able to connect, means less able to be intimate. Um, because like repressing emotion shuts, shuts everything down in your system. So then that's again why some people then need more extreme experiences to feel anything because there's, there's like such a contraction. And the body as a result. So dance and any other dance might not be for everybody, though. Try it once, guys. It could be some other form of conscious movement, right? It's a wonderful way to just release emotion with no story. Like you don't need to go into some big, like psychoanalytical thing about all I'm feeling this. And that's because my mom did this to me when I was five. You know, you can just just move and the energy moves. and after two hours of letting loose. You'll end up in a completely different space where your mind is clear, your body feels great, the energy in your system has moved and everything's just more relaxed. Everything's just more relaxed and chilled out and like, oh, and from that place, you know, then again, you're much more available for a healthy level of connection with yourself and then with other people. I mean,
James:you can, I do notice it when I'm, when I'm in my own frame dancing on the dancefloor. When you are literally having fun and just being you and not worrying about anybody else, you will notice women looking at you. Oh, of course, and it's because I think it's, it's nothing to do with, you're not projecting out. You project, you're bringing yourself, you're bringing yourself in and there's that feel and you, you are being you on the dance floor and it's, and it is a very profound experience.
Shakti Sundari:That is the key to so much. And, um, thank you for bringing that up. So I have a friend who runs ecstatic events. ecstatic dance events in London and their, the name of their, their company is URUBU, uh, which is the acronym U R U B U, because there's nothing more beautiful and there's nothing more attractive than a person who is being authentically themselves, nothing. And we feel safe with someone who's themselves. You know as well and it's really attractive and because again like speaking from personal experience and having worked with clients for so many Years one on one and in groups as well Like the biggest thing is that we are taught as children to be inauthentic And I don't mean in the sense that your parents are saying. Oh, you know, you should be inauthentic but basically what that means is because we had to do certain things as young children to survive and to Um, and it's not because someone's deliberately trying to make us feel safe and to be loved. We began to bend ourselves out of shape from our original innocent nature to fit into the family structure or to fit into the school structure. So certain things that we used to do like quite innocently, like we learned not to do because it maybe wasn't safe because maybe we'd get a slap. Maybe we'd be told off. Maybe everyone would take the piss out of us and we'd like feel really hurt. So we stopped being our authentic selves and it's not because someone's deliberately Trying to do that, but it's just what happens. So there's like this false self that then gets overlaid onto who we really are. And for me, the whole spiritual awakening journey has been actually like, it's kind of ironic, but it's like taking all those layers back off again to reveal like, who am I really? Like, what is my essence? And having the courage and the confidence to just be true to who I actually am without self consciousness, without fear of judgment. And I have been doing this for years, so it's not like this was easy at the start, I've got to be honest. But now it's second nature. And then two things happen. You become very inspiring to other people, just innately without having to try. Um, and you become more attractive. And then also you line yourself up with the right people for you. Because most of the time, you're bending yourself out of shape to try and fit with somebody where you're just not aligned. Like, no blame or judgment needed, but like, it's the best way to get into a relationship with the right person is just to be authentically yourself and not try to please them, which men and women do, both, people pleasing, you know. Or, um, hide the bits that you're ashamed of, because you're scared they won't like you. Um, or not speak your truth, again, because you've learnt that it's safer not to. All these things are very damaging to healthy connection, so. I
James:Why do men. struggle to connect so deeply emotionally?
Shakti Sundari:I think there are several reasons. Um, I do think there are differences. Um, I think the orientation in the masculine is more to action, simplicity, um, thinking, um, solving problems. And I think there's like, um, you know, historic reasons for that in terms of survival, like right back to cavemen and hunting and stuff. You have to be focused. to get the job done. And it wasn't safe to feel your emotions. If you're out there and a lion's chasing you, you know, you don't have time to think about that. You've got to kill the fucking lion. Right. So that's when turning off the emotions was helpful for our evolution. So I think there's a part of that in, in the equation. Right. But then there's the whole socialization part, which of course, you know, that we've already spoken about the model that it's not manly to have emotions. It's not manly to cry. And sadly, there are people still in society, teachers and parents and leaders who've modelled that and reinforced that by the way that they've parented. So that's also part of the issue. And then I think that there's a fear of appearing to be weak. And being rejected for that. And again, I think other men in some circles may have encouraged that, you know, like you call other guys, like you're a pussy, you're a wuss, like, you know, you use those it's quite interesting because men use words that refer to feminine parts to say you're weak. In other words, saying. Because the feminine is weak. You're weak like pussy, right? Actually, pussies give birth. So like, come on guys, that's not weak. I've given birth twice. Right. Um, but, but it's kind of, again, what, what all that conditioning has taught you is the wrong way around because it's really fucking courageous. To own and feel your emotion without making anyone else to blame for it and to hold yourself in that. That's really strong, so it's not weak. It's actually more weak to repress and to deny out of fear of rejection or fear of appearing to be something. That's more weak. It's kind of, again, it's an irony. It takes a lot of courage. To feel what you really feel and to own that and to allow yourself to go into that. And it is necessary because what happens a lot in dynamics with men and women is that if a man hasn't done this inner work to begin to become more comfortable with his emotions and his body, because body and emotions go hand in hand, when his woman gets emotional, he won't be able to tolerate it. He will feel so anxious and so uncomfortable in her presence that he will get defensive. Or he will shut her down. Or he will say something nasty. Um, or he'll just have to leave the room. Um, because he hasn't done that inner work yet. Basically, the more a man is comfortable with his own emotions, the more present he can stay to his woman when she is in her emotions. and being present doesn't mean that you accept any kind of abuse. It doesn't mean that you accept, you know, disrespectful behavior. It just means that if a woman is crying or upset or angry or frustrated or any emotion, and like that's part of being feminine is really feeling everything, um, that you're able to just stand there and breathe. Feel yourself really rooted and grounded in your body and in, you know, on the earth. And even if there is a bit of reaction that's happening to not feel overwhelmed and afraid of it, which is what could be a common thing that happens and to just stay there. And that is like one of the greatest gifts a man can give a woman is, is his presence. That is like, you don't need to do anything. You don't, you just need to be there and to breathe and to be, I see you, I hear you, I understand. Gosh, I feel that, you know, I get how that must feel for you. I couldn't, you know. And that is going to soothe her down, like, and just soften her. She's going to love you forever. If you develop that capacity.
James:I think from a men's perspective, we've been so ingrained into fixing things. So if we've got an issue, down in the garage, we'll go and fix it. If we've got an issue in a house, like a door, we'll go and fix it. But, you know. Women want to be heard, so how can men shift that mindset from wanting to fix it, to being present, to listening, to hearing what she says?
Shakti Sundari:Yeah, um, it's such a big one this, um, thank you for bringing it up, and I also want to say, I love a man who can fix things. I love it. I, like, my dad was amazing. He could build anything, fix anything, repair anything. It was, I really admired that. That was a, for me, that was a very masculine trait that I admired in him. And I actually wish I had more male friends. You still have those traits. Like they seem to be dying out. I don't know where they've gone. So, love the Fixit. It's great. And, women are different to men, just think like, we're the opposite, we're a mystery, we're different to you, we're not the same. So what you would want, or what you would do, is not what she would want or she would do. So just understand, it's not that anybody's right or wrong, it's just that people are different, no blame. Um, and that, in a way, most of the time, the worst thing you could do is when she has an issue or she's emoting about something is to try to fix it. That's going to make her even more upset, even more angry and feel that you just do not understand what she's going through. Right? So instead, this is where the need to be in touch with your own emotions and your body comes into, into practice though. Um, you know, the, the, the, the thing to offer there is your presence. And again, what does that mean? It means nonjudgmental. Listening and being in your body and staying in the room and being in your body and feeling what you're feeling and containing it within your own body. And that does require some practice. It requires you probably to be meditating on a regular basis so that you have the capacity to still your mind. And it requires capacity to be in your body and notice what's going on in your body and to ground yourself. Um, and then things you can do are say like, thank you for sharing. Um, or to, or to say, or to reflect back. So giving reflection shows that you're listening rather than trying to think. Cause if you're listening from your head, rather than from your body, you're already going to be going into the fixer mode. So like, listen with the intent. Not to have an answer but to reflect back. I hear like, so I hear you saying that your boss was really annoying at work today. Did I get it right? So you reflect back what she said. Another thing you can do is to ask what do you need right now? How can I support you? Would you like a hug? Right? So you are offering and you are asking, what do you need right now? Because, um, my kids do this with me now'cause I taught'em to do it. Do you want me to just hold space or do you want me to offer advice? Cause sometimes she might want advice, but giving it unsolicited is probably going to go squiffy. And then she can say, I would really love you to just hold space for me right now. I would really love you to give me a hug, whatever it is. And you can also set a limit, you know, out of honor for yourself because you don't have to give unlimited presence if you're, if you don't have the capacity for it, boundaries, it's also up to you to say, you know what, I don't feel I have the capacity for that right now. Okay. Or I can, you know, I can hold space for you like, um, five minutes and then I need to go and do something else, or can we make a time to do that later? I don't feel I have capacity. And that's owning what's, what's right for you. Cause you don't want to get into a situation where you're doing something and you're resenting it, you know, but that's again, self responsibility, knowing yourself, having boundaries is also important.
James:And this is, sorry, does that start with. owning the space for yourself. So putting aside time to go and perhaps meditate or to go and dance and having that time as your space. Because I think sometimes from, from, from, from being a man, sometimes it's hard to get into the idea that, okay, I need to give her space. But it's also the idea that if we start to give ourselves space and to strengthen our own space, we're able to Build that capacity to give to a woman.
Shakti Sundari:Definitely. And, um, you know, one, one difference I do see in men, a lot of men, is that they do need their man cave. And that means taking space for yourself to go and do your hobbies, to go and meditate, to go and work out, to go and do whatever it is, whatever it is you need to show up as the best version of yourself. Right? That's what you, you have to prioritize that and in any relationship, both couples, I would say both people have to prioritize. I'm responsible for my physical, mental, emotional, spiritual wellbeing. You're responsible for yours together. We come like when we've taken care of ourselves. So we show up as the best version. Um, and I think sometimes I want to speak about the shadow that women bring, because of course we have our shadows too. And so women can come and they can be needy and they can be insecure and they can be clingy and they can be manipulative. So these are some of the feminine shadows that then show up and they're like, Oh, I don't want you to go to the gym. Like, Oh, can't you just stay with me? You know, and then actually if you're being in your integrity as a man, it's important to actually not get manipulated and actually have a boundary and actually say, Um, I hear that you want to spend quality time with me. You know, that's great. And I would like to spend quality time with you and have this commitment to go to the gym every day at 11 o'clock and I'm going to hold that commitment and it doesn't mean that I don't love you, but this is my commitment to me because I love me too, you know, and it requires you to be like that strong. Strong and integrity, speaking your truth and valuing yourself. And a woman will respect that. And if she, if she begins to find out that she can manipulate you, you know, it might give her temporary satisfaction, but she's going to lose respect for you.
James:Yeah, I can, I can vouch for that. And also, there's, when you're talking about having space to yourself, I think that's key, because I've noticed I'm there in one of my values is freedom. And so when I'm around people for too long, contained in a space. I get very overwhelmed. I, I get very, um, resentful, angry, so I have to take myself away, whether that's a short five minute walk or it could be go to a woodland or whatever it is, to allow myself to be in my own, my own space so that I can process what's been going on. And I think that's so important. I remember a relationship I was in and my partner stayed over the whole weekend. We were together the whole time. And by the, um, Saturday evening, I was like, just starting to shake a little bit. And I was like, I need to just go for a minute.
Yeah. But
James:it's been able to communicate that to your partner.
In a
James:way that brings, um, trust and understanding.
Shakti Sundari:Yes, so important. Because there's nothing, again, there's nothing wrong with you and your needs are important, as important as your partner's. But the thing that people, the part that most people miss out is the communication part, like you said, which is, I know, or I'm noticing, I'm beginning to feel overwhelmed. This is mine. It's not yours. You're not doing it to me, but I notice I'm, and I need to take some space. Um, I'll be back in an hour. So it's that part that is often missing. It's like expressing your need and then giving, like communicating something to reassure. I'll be back in an hour or I'm going on a business trip. It's going to be really important for me to focus on my work while I'm gone. So I won't be texting you for the next two days. So she knows. And then she can have that. It's just having that sense of consistency and clarity and integrity in your communication. Like, if these things aren't communicated with clarity, then she's left feeling like, I don't know where I am. Like, I don't feel safe. I feel insecure, like what's happening. And like, she'll begin to get like all kind of anxious and activated. And then if she's not self aware herself, she'll come back at you with some like jab and then off you go and you'll have an argument. Right. All it needs for her nervous system to relax is for you to really clearly just say like, this is, this is what's going to happen. It doesn't mean I don't love you. I'll be in touch in a couple of days or in a week, like just name it, frame it. And then, and then be a man of your word. And if you can't honor that agreement, this is so important, tell her and tell her why. You know, otherwise trust gets eroded. So it's just like, as a man, you're there to hold the frame and the frame is, is like, you know, clarity, integrity, consistency, reliability. And that doesn't mean you have to have like a big weight on your shoulders. It just means being responsible and just sort of being clear. And again, uh, facing your own fear of rejection that might come up in being that. Because that that might be part of why you're not being clear. It might be why you're being
that
Shakti Sundari:avoidant and anxious attachment that kind of you referenced a bit. And then there is this thing of men, I think can get more overwhelmed, um, sometimes and need and need that space. And there's nothing wrong with that. Let's not stigmatize that. And then another thing is pace. There's so many things. It's like often I think women process stuff quicker. I mean, we are all unique, but sometimes men need longer to process things because being in the emotional realm isn't their natural hangout. So it can take a man like So something to be aware of in your relationship is like, you might need five days to get to clarity around something for yourself. She might need half an hour. And then she's like, thinking like, what's going on? Like, well, you just need a different length of time to her to get to clarity.
Yeah, yeah.
Shakti Sundari:Nobody's right, nobody's wrong.
James:So to finish off, can you, obviously I haven't got anywhere near to the questions I wanted to ask, so I'm hoping we can have a part two. Yeah, perfect. Um, just to finish off, can you tell us what do you do and how can people get in contact?
Shakti Sundari:Okay, so, um, I'm a love coach. I've got 20 years experience teaching embodied awareness, sexual and spiritual awakening and personal development. And I work one on one with people now to really get to the root. of challenges in your life, challenges in your relating and your intimacy, um, but like going deep, not on a superficial level and really seeing you as a whole person and whatever challenge you're going through is, is a gift and part of your spiritual and personal development. So that's the perspective that we take when you work with me.
James:Perfect. Thank you very much.
Shakti Sundari:Oh, thank you so much. I've loved it.
