Big Goals, Big Results: The Proven Path to Lasting Success

In this powerful episode of Man: Quest to Find Meaning, I sit down with international speaker and goal-setting expert David Hyner to unpack what it really takes to achieve big, meaningful success.

We explore why most people set goals that are too small—and how that keeps them stuck in mediocrity. David shares the life-changing moment that shifted his entire mindset at age 30, when he decided to stop listening to the voice that said “you can’t” and started asking, “What if you can?” From there, he’s gone on to speak to over a million people, write 30 books, and help others do what once seemed impossible.

Together, we discuss:

• Why doing beats dreaming every time
• The truth about SMART goals (and why top achievers don’t use them)
• How to set massive goals with realistic steps
• The importance of consistency, action, and “grunt work”
• Why surrounding yourself with the right people is non-negotiable
• How to bounce back from failure and build resilience
• What truly healthy masculinity looks like in today's world

David also dives deep into emotional honesty, accepting our insecurities, and the vital role of accountability and support. Whether you're lost, overwhelmed by options, or just looking to level up in your career, health, or relationships, this episode offers grounded, practical advice delivered with humor and heart.

If you’ve been stuck playing small, this conversation will challenge you to think bigger, act braver, and finally move toward the life you really want.

David Hyner is an award winning international professional speaker, author, broadcaster and researcher, looking into personal effectiveness having interviewed over 250+ top achievers in 24 years.

Over years of research, adventures and success, David Hyner has helped thousands of people to tap into the mindset of the worlds highest achievers and most effective performers, and use these principles to improve their own performance. He gives your delegates the inspiration to take MASSIVE action!

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Transcript

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In today's episode. We talk about choosing a goal. I'm fully committed to it. About taking ownership of your actions. Doing over dreaming. The importance of surrounding yourself with the right people. Welcome to Man Questifying Meaning, where we help men navigate modern life, find their true purpose, and redefine manhood. I'm your host, James, and each week, inspiring guests share their journeys of overcoming fear Embracing vulnerability and finding success. From experts to everyday heroes. Get practical advice and powerful insights. Struggling with career, relationships or personal growth? We've got you covered. Join us on Man Quest to Find Meaning. Now, let's dive in. Good morning. Today, I have my special guest, David Heiner. How are you, David? I'm brilliant. Thanks, James, for inviting me on. For the guests and the audience out there, me and David have done quite a bit of work together with speaking and things like that. And it's more, I know David, he's an amazing speaker. David, can you start off by telling us your journey? Yeah I was born, no, there we go. Sorry, can't help myself. Yeah, I was born in the UK in the West Midlands in Birmingham. I was a very average kid growing up at best. I, right up until the end of high school, really. I just, I was a bit of a coward. I was very immature. I didn't know that at the time, but I was I wasn't a coward in the literal sense though, so I didn't shy away from the rough and tumble of life, played rugby. Went up the football and it did that kind of stuff. But when it came to personal insecurities, I guess I was too afraid to put my hand up in class, too afraid to ask for help or too afraid to do the work needed. Or if I didn't understand, I'd walk away rather than try and figure it out. And I, and so I grew up and woke up at the age of 30, having strived for and achieved nothing at all. And I was, I don't know about you James, but I was one of these people who had dreams, goals, aspirations. And I sometimes say in my talks, places I wanted to go, things I wanted to do, things I wanted to achieve. And other than find a woman mad enough to marry me at the age of 30, I looked at all the things I wanted to do and I'd achieved none of them, not a single thing. And I, I had an epiphany moment where I just said to myself, Dave, you need to stop believing that voice that says you can't and go and find out what's true. Can you? Because it's no good saying I can't if you haven't tried. And in the spirit of honesty, I'm not one of these motivational speakers who will only tell you the cool stuff with pointy fingers and a wink and white teeth and matching tiny cufflinks. I'm honest. I've still failed since the age of 30, sometimes gloriously. If anyone ever sees me, you'll say I'm an average little fat guy from Birmingham who just happened. Turned his life around a bit and been places done things and achieve things that the average little me before the age of 30 would never ever have dreamt possible. I started interviewing successful people as a hobby because I wanted to find out how I could be more happy and successful and effective. And when I started hearing all these common little traits, James, the way they think, the way they behave, I realized that, you know what? Yeah. None of this is difficult. It's just about consistency and relentlessness doing the little things. And there's a lot of talk in sport these days about marginal gains and the 1 percent that will elevate you to success. And actually that combined with a relentless consistency is what it's all about. I learned from these top achievers, how to set goals, which just changed my world fundamentally. And now at the age of, I've got to stop and think at the age of 57, 57, I think, yeah on one of the few speakers are presented to over a million people live all over the world, over a quarter of a million, virtually people give me awards and. Trinkets and baubles and things like that. And I'm still the same average little fat guy from Birmingham who goes, what me? I don't deserve that. And full of insecurities still, it's just that despite them, I still go and find out what's true. So that's a potted history. Isn't every person average in some respects? Gloriously. Gloriously average, because, there's, yes, there are people out there who think they're better than everybody else, but underneath that that outer layer, probably inside, they're probably just their average selves. They have insecurities. I know for myself, from doing this, from doing other things, that I always have these insecurities and these worries about, even this morning, I've noticed that there's a sense of neediness with inside myself. It's this truth, this going within ourselves, talking about our own truths, which tend to inspire the masses. The, I think what you say is true. I think we are all ordinary, but I think we need to accept rather than understand that. So most people understand that we're full of insecurities and anyone in any, what you and I are intelligent enough, and most people listening to this are intelligent enough to know that anyone who says, I haven't got any insecurities or fears, they're either arrogant or a liar, right? Because all of us we're a mix of values, insecurities, strengths, weakness. We are human beings. We're not robots. So what we need to do is not just understand that, but accept it. And instead of keep trying to always overcome our weaknesses, actually accept that, you know what, I'm not very good at that, but if I need to do that to achieve my goal, I need a work around and that could be the famous Richard Branson thing of hire the most intelligent person at that thing. So you don't have to do it, or it could be okay. If I've got to do it. I'm going to do it right. I'll do it to the very best of my ability and it's having it. I'm going to be consistent, relentless on it until it's done just to get it out of the way. So if we accept it rather than just understand it, we can then progress. If we keep pushing it down, insecurities will only ever crop up. And to go back to your original question, I think, yes, I think we are ordinary people. And in most cases, we are capable of extraordinary things. Yeah. I agree. Just going back to when you were interviewing the top achievers, what kind of things did they teach you that were common between them all? Oh, how long have you got James? How long have you got mate? I would say seriously, and anyone here listening to this who wants to understand how they can be better at Anything. I don't know. Pick a, pick either a hobby or a career or just give me an example, James. Anything off the top of your head. Let's, while you're a speaker, let's use, actually no, let's use something different. Let's say they want to lose weight. Okay. I know someone who's overweight. I'm a chubby guy, right? So I would never advise anyone on how to lose weight. But if I decided I want to lose weight, what I would now do is I would go and find someone who has done it effortlessly, consistently kept it off in a way that's joyful without their diet being torment. So I would find someone who's done exactly what I want to achieve. Not someone who yo diets, not someone who one week says you got to eat meat. The next week he says, you got to eat tofu and avocado. Yeah. I'm going to find someone who has done exactly what I want to do at the very highest level. And that comes from an interview with a. Globally known top achieving athlete called Chris Akabusi, who says you should look into people, not up to them. And he's a very much an advocate of what you were saying, James, we're all just ordinary people, but if you want to be exceptional at something, find somebody who has been exceptional at that thing and ask them to mentor you or find out how they do it. So one of the things I learned. If you want to be great at something, you should get a mentor and you should stick with that mentor and follow their advice because many of us, I know I was guilty of this when I first got into the world of personal development. You read every book, you go on every course, you listen to everybody. And from one month to the next, you're going to do that. I'm going to do it actually. It doesn't matter what lots and lots of other people want. What do you want? What's your thoughts? What, where is it you want to go? And so go after that, don't seek approval and acceptance, seek trust and respect. And that's something that was like a bullet to my brain, top achievers don't seek approval and acceptance unless they're actors or musicians, typically they seek trust and respect through their actions. So the, they do consistently what they know is the right thing. They're relentless about it. They're not doing it. They, they don't write a book and brag about it. They write a book and then onto the next And, okay, that book might bring them fame, it might bring them fortune and, weight loss, are you, why are you doing it? If somebody wants to lose weight, are you doing it so that you can write a book or become a speaker on weight loss? Or are you doing it because you want to be able to have a conversation with your kids when you're 80? That's my motivation. And so it's looking at the why, the purpose behind what you're doing. Have you and I know we've spoken about this in the past, my friend, which is you've got to have a reason why you want to do this thing that is bigger than your fears and insecurities. And saying that still inspires me after 23 years of doing this. I am still inspired by that quote. You've got to have a reason why you must achieve your goal that is bigger than any fear, any insecurity, any doubt. Any weakness you've got that way you will do it. And most, and he's the glorious thing, James, you, me, uncle Tom's dog, everybody listening to this right now, you've had a moment in your life. Hopefully you've had many, but most people have had at least one or two moments where whatever it was that was challenging them, they had to overcome it. They had to do that. They had to go there, do this, achieve this thing. And they did it. Because that was walking the talk in that moment. They had a reason bigger than their fears and insecurities. So look into people who have done it, get a mentor, have a reason why, and seek trust and respect rather than acceptance and approval. Cause so many everywhere you go, can I ask you all, please listening to this today, just for the rest of today. Just watch people. No, not in a weird way, right? Not like James on a Friday night, sitting on the street corner, rocking on the park bench, watching people eat their chips. Yeah, don't do that. If you do that, say James told you to do it. But what I want you to do is just watch people as you go about your business and you'll see most people, they are primarily driven by a need for approval and acceptance. Now, if they accepted it and worked with it, that's, that earns respect, because that's who we are. But because they don't know it, they don't understand it, they don't accept it, their whole life is just around doing things to be told how good they are, and then feeling bad when people don't tell them. That is not a way to live your life. And that is not how top achievers think and behave. They just do things to earn trust and respect, to have relationships with people, to understand people and be understood. They don't do it for glory or to increase your likes, shares and followers on social media. If they did a podcast like this, awesome podcast, James, they would do it like you are, out of service. And you'll, you will see occasionally some very successful people who I wouldn't call top achievers, who they're really successful, made millions in business, and they'll start, for example, a podcast and it's only objective is marketing to make more money. And you just go, really what about genuinely helping people? So that's something else. Top achievers go out of their way to bring people with them. There you've all heard the metaphor around, are you a rhinoceros or are you an elephant get where they get by walking in a straight line and treading on people and rhinoceroses, despite charging at things. In a relentless, consistent way. They're a nurturing animal. They bring their family with them and bring people with you. That's what top achievers do. Really successful people do. Another thing, if we've got time is how they set goals, James. And some people listening to this, especially if they're in the world or the circles of personal development and learning and development, you might raise your eyebrows and roll your eyes when I say this, but we're all taught. To set realistic and achievable goals. And the buzzword in learning is smart goals. Now, if that is true, if we should be setting realistic and achievable goals, why is it that not a single top achiever I've interviewed and I've interviewed over 230, how many of them. I've answered the question. Not a single one of them have answered the question by saying, Oh, I set smart goals or, Oh, I said realistic and achievable targets. Not one of them. They all to a man or woman said things like huge, massive, enormous, colossal dream, ambition. Everything was big, exciting, bold, infusing, inspiring. And most people go. I just want to write a book. I want to lose weight. I want to start a business. I want to qualification. I want to find a partner and start a family. Why don't you write a global bestselling book that makes a difference and changes lives all over the world? I want to raise money for charity. No, instead of raising money for charity, why don't you organize event that gets a 200 people raising money for charity and make a genuine difference instead of a, Piss poor car boot sale attempt at it. Sorry. Was I allowed to say car boot? So it can you see it's the way top achievers think and behave. They make it big, bold, exciting. It motivates them. They, and here's the kicker, James. If anyone listening to this is going, Oh I was taught and I read a book on smart goals and realistic goals. Here's the rub, right? Not only do top achievers not set realistic goals, they set massive goals. They set realistic and achievable steps to their massive goal. And I cannot, you can probably tell by my voice, I cannot. Get over my level of frustration. Once you become aware of this and accept it rather than understand it, it's like this nuclear device going off in your brain because your brain goes, hold on a minute. If I'm setting realistic and achievable goals and I'm getting average at best in life and business and work, if I set a truly massive goal, but set steps to that goal that every one of which Are both realistic and achievable per se. Therefore, the massive goal is achievable. As long as I'm prepared to graft and the graft word, I call it grunt work. You've got to do the grunt work. Some people say, I want to start a business. Great. What do you want to do? I want to sell. I want to sell Zeppelins. You mean like first world war balloons that got shot down all the time? Yeah. Why'd you want to do that? Oh, I love them. Okay. Have you done any research whatsoever to see if anybody wants to buy a Zeppelin? No, I just think it's a great idea. We all know how long they're going to last in business. So. You've got to do the grunt work. You've got to do the research. You've got to, it's no good saying, Oh, I'm going to go and run a marathon. No, you've got to go and do training for the marathon. Got to learn how to run properly. Got to get the right kit. Most people just want the glory without the grunt work. I want to write a book. And all they do is for 40 years of their life, talk about the book they're writing. In truth, they've written a chapter. That's what they've done. They write a chapter and then get frustrated and beat themselves up for what they haven't done rather than get excited over what they have done. And you James, you've done so much in the world of personal development like myself that you and I have got enough scars and wounds and bites and bruises from failures and knockbacks and that. We know that actually, if we, instead of just getting excited about writing a book, all we do is for one year, write one page a day, realistic, achievable. One page a day, this time next year, we've got a book, a big book that you can write to, you can write to and this is what top achievers do. They don't make it complicated. They don't make it over scientific. They don't have processes with long names to make you look good. All they do is keep it simple, realistic. Achievable. And if you look at all the things you've got to do to your massive goal and look at every single thing and by itself, each one is realistic and achievable. There's nothing to fear. Therefore, your insecurities can't crop up and get in your way and stop you. Anytime our insecurities get in the way. It's because it's not. It's not being managed in a way that's congruent with who we really are. We're trying to fight who we are. So by doing realistic and achievable, everything just gets sorted. It's just like this beautiful tapestry that gets put together and woven. And most people are just trying to. Buy a piece of cloth off a market stall and hoping that's their tapestry. When no, you've got to, you've got to make it, you've got to do the grunt work. You've got to be relentless. You've got to be consistent. I'm not telling people to overwork and burn out and become depressed. I'm not. What I'm asking you to do is get so excited. You can't wait to do it. Have a goal that is so inspiring to you, but don't just get high on the euphoria, adrenaline, and dreams. Do the grunt work every day, do a little bit that takes you closer to your goal. And this time next year, let's have a party. Like it. So just for the listeners, for the people out there who perhaps are lost, don't really know what they want to do, or don't have a clue at all. What would you suggest? Them to do first. That is one of the best questions you could possibly ask me, right? Because in my talks and I talked to young people in education, I talked to chief execs and I talked to big conferences and I all the time get people come up to me and say what'd you do if you haven't got a goal and you don't know what you want? I asked them a question and the question, okay. Pretend jams, humor me, right? Cause I don't think I've done this with you ever before. So humor me. Look, let's go. I'm a school boy. Okay. You are a school boy, I hope we all, okay. So you're going to come up to me and you're going to ask that question. Go for it. David, I loved your talk, but I don't have a goal. I don't know what I want to do. What? Can you suggest that I do? Great, James. Thank you for being courageous enough to ask that question because it shows you're already thinking about it, which is more than most people do. So first of all, good on you. The question is this. Is it true that you have not got a clue and you really haven't got a scooby doo what you want to do? Or is it true that you've probably got lots of ideas but you're afraid to have a go at any of them in case it's the wrong thing? Which is true? I would probably suggest that I have lots of ideas, but I'm afraid to take that step. In that case, you've just put yourself in the top two to three percent of people for emotional intelligence, because what you've just identified is that hardly anyone, hardly anybody hasn't got a clue what they want. We all have dreams, goals, ambitions. It's just that what we do is that we get overwhelmed with this plethora, this veritable buffet of opportunity. And we're scared to have a go at any of them in case it's the wrong thing. And we look stupid if we fail. So first of all, except that it's not true that you don't know, you do know, the problem is, more than most people, you've got loads of ideas. So now what we need to do is this. Especially in Great Britain and the Western world, most of us will procrastinate on making a decision as which one to do that procrastination over time, especially tell me something that this school boy, James really would like to do one thing as an example. Oh, I would love to do to be, to let this podcast to go out worldwide, globally, and to impact hundreds of thousands of men's lives. Maybe even millions, if I think in big goal. To someone like that schoolboy, who's got this massive goal, and has just had me come in, convincing him that he should set this massive goal, and this schoolboy does not know where to start, that's overwhelming. It causes fear, stress, anxiety, rather than excitement. And so what I need to do now is say to this schoolboy the following James, what you've got to do now, my friend, is Write down out of all of these ideas, you've got two or three of them that you think you could do every day for the rest of your life and never say never get tired of sick or tired of doing it. And if you write three of these things down, I want you to look into, read about them, watch videos about it, maybe go and speak to people who've already done each of these three things. And then out of them, Pick the one you're doing first. This is critical. You're not saying no to any of the others. You're saying not yet because most people don't want to let go of all the ideas because they've got great ideas. They're saying, you're not saying no, you're saying not yet. And then you go with that one thing and maybe it's for you. It's that podcast and you go, I'm going to give this everything I've got for a few months, really drill down, understand it, research it. I'm not just going, I'm going to get some experience in it. I'm actually going to look into how people start podcasts. I may be going to invest in some coaching on it or, Or take a course on it, or I'm going to ask someone who is a really successful, not an average, really successful podcaster. If I can go and shadow them and get mentored by them. And in those first three or four months, I'm going to get everything I need to know so that on X date in the future, I can say categorically. Either A, I don't want this and you let it go, or B, yeah, this is my thing. I'm going for it. I'm going Rhino on this. And if it's no, let it go. You do, all you do is instead of crying about it, you go to the next thing that you had on your list out of those top three and you do that for a few months. What you're doing is twofold. Number one, eventually you're going to find the thing that's right for you. You'll find that thing. That's sweet spot and you'll go for it. But more importantly than that, James, is that we're not procrastinating. We're not filling our heads full of fear and failure. All we're doing is taking pragmatic action and steps towards the goal. So rather than be overwhelmed of, I'm scared to do anything in case it's the wrong thing, you're immediately switching the psychology to proactive grunt work. So that would be my advice to anyone who says I haven't got a Scooby Doo. Cause in truth, out of the 1. 2 or more million human beings I've spoken to, I've probably had a couple of thousand people come up to me over the years and say, I haven't got a clue what I want to do. And out of those, a fraction of them, I would, I could probably count on 10 fingers. The number of 2 million who genuinely haven't got a clue or will say they haven't got a clue. And those people I go, wow, it must be so cool to be so peaceful and free of stress. But if they say, but Dave, I still want a massive goal. I go, okay, then what do you like doing? What do you love doing? What excites you and then and look at things in that way to find out what they might could look into. So there's always a way of helping people, but the truth of it is that hardly anyone genuinely doesn't know what they want to do. I can vouch for that because obviously knowing you for quite a few years, I've bounced from one thing to another thing. And I always found it so hard to let some of this stuff go because, we go into this personal development journey and you want to do everything. Try and do everything's too overwhelming. So it's, and it's, I've always found it hard to let go of things. I would love to do that. I'd love to do this. I'm like the exit, they call it the silver shiny thing syndrome, where you see something shining. You're like, Ooh, yeah. Any kind of thing. It's yeah, I bought. I've been starting doing podcasts and having this idea the last probably two or three years doing a lot of men's work. I've linked the two together and it seems to get in quite smoothly kind of thing. And this realization that yes, this is the thing that I can do. And then as you would know, and probably mentioned this from these one things that you do, Other things come off, so speaking opportunities, books, courses, and it's about focusing on the one thing first and then expanding out. Yeah, and it all comes down to the doing. Not the dreaming about it, you know, there's a Bill Phillips was an American entrepreneur in the health and fitness industry. And he said stop talking about it. Stop dreaming about it. You're going to be judged on what you do. Do something. Yes. You can talk the talk, you can dream the dream, but you'll only ever be remembered for what you do. And And forgive me if this offends anybody, there are people out there who think all you've got to do is sit on a hill with your legs crossed going on, desiring things, and the world's going to come to you. I haven't interviewed a single Top Achiever yet that does that. They make a plan, get excited and go for it. Even the law of attraction, the word attraction is I think it's the last few letters, it's action. Oh yeah, never thought of that, yeah. So that's a big one. Anybody who likes following the law of attraction, which I do myself, there's this idea that within law of attraction is the word action. So you've got to take action to be able to start attracting it. Yeah, say for example, They start to achieve stuff. They start to set, they set a goal. They start to take steps. They start to see progress. And then suddenly they're hit by a setback. How would you navigate that personally? Oh, great question. Oh, you're on fire today, mate. Good question. Okay. So you've started taking action on your big goal and then something, cause the happens, something just wipes the floor. And I dunno, maybe you set up goals to set, start a business and the business fails for some reason, or you're distracted because of a family emergency. So the business fails and. That can be devastating, especially because this podcast is predominantly aimed at men, to men, because men like to be the provider, they're the hunter gatherer, they're, they, psychologically speaking, even though we're weirdos and incompetent most of us, we like to think we should have the answer, we should be able to fix things, and the truth is that There are moments in life where it's going to throw you a side ball, a curveball in baseball, as they say there's a two and a half to 3 percent rule in positive psychology, which was proven by positive psychologist Dr. Andy Cope. And I've proven it in my research as well. And it was first invented. He never did any research. He just came up with a figure and positive psychology happened to prove it to be true. Scott Alexander and his book rhinoceros success. Yeah. He said, he suggests when I interviewed him that there's about 3 percent of the population who see what they want. Go for it. And they outachieve everybody else. 97 percent of people just keep plodding, failing, and then using that as a reason not to set more goals and have another go. And so the truth is that 3 percent of the time. We are truly outstanding. All of us, 3 percent of our lives we do at the very highest level. We're awesome. We're on fire. We're on in the flow, the zone. And 97 percent of the time we accept mediocrity and failure. Let me say that again. 97 percent of the time we accept. Not life forcing it upon us. We accept mediocrity and failure. Here's the truth. 3 percent of our lives, statistically two and a half to 3 percent of our lives, bad things are going to happen in every 100 days. There's going to be between two and three. Bad days. Life does that businesses are going to fail. Books are not going to get written. People get ill, people die. You're going to tread on the hamster, crash the car. Your partners are going to fall out with you. Your mates are going to fall out with you down the pub and bad. You're going to get a tax invoice that you weren't expecting. Bad things happen. That is life, but only two and a half to 3 percent of the time. The rest of the time we're choosing. No. I've gone on this long monologue narrative there about good and bad things happening. You specifically asked me, how do you cope with the failures? For a man that is difficult, but at the risk of sounding like a 1970s personal development classic book, what I see in top achievers is that their pursuit of the outcome is not necessarily successful. The outcome is not necessarily the goal. The goal is to have as much fun as they can in the process. And they almost take the pressure off themselves to achieve because they've set a goal so colossal, so massive, most people are expecting them to fail anyway. Most people expect people who set massive goals to fail. So when someone does achieve something big, it's wow, whoa. Wow, you're good, but because they've achieved big the next time they fail, they tend not to go, Hey, see, told you'd fail because they class that person as a top achiever. All my life, up until the age of 30, people held me back, put me down, told me I was useless, told me I was thick, told me I was stupid, told me I shouldn't apply to college, told me I could never start a business. When I started business, I overheard two, I thought, friends and colleagues tell me, the business won't last a year, I'll give it 10 months tops. I, everybody, In my life, apart from my mum and dad, dissed me. And because of that, up until the age of 30, that's what happened. I believed it to be true. What is true? What is true is that since the age of 30, I've failed gloriously many times. But I've also become an international professional speaker. One of the busiest people in the country at doing that. I've written 30 books after being told by an English teacher to, that I'd never write a book. Five of them, I was on subject number ones. I've raised over a million pounds, breaking four charity fundraising records in the process, giving over 4, 000 people experiences of a lifetime. I could keep going on. And on with the things that have happened, I've shared my goal setting process with people who have gone on to be Amazon number one bestselling authors, millionaires in business, sporting champions, charity fundraising, rock stars, people who have quadrupled their business on. And by the way, I'm not talking about someone starting in a garage. I'm talking about someone who had a business with 200 staff and he's now number two in Europe. quadrupled their workforce, quadrupled their sales, quadrupled their profits, and putting the massive goals down to part of these are things that are true. And yet now people identify those things with me rather than the failures. So it is a difficult thing to do for the first time. If people listening to this can begin to think about failure differently, it's not the end, it's just a learning. We are going to fail. Deal with it. Does that mean therefore you shouldn't do anything in case you fail? No. You should be relentless. We are here to evolve. Not revolve. We're not here to keep going around in circles, chasing our tail, bitching and whinging and moaning about everything in life, holding us back and us holding us back. We will cause we're pathetic. We're insecure and we like people to like us. So we will bitch, whinge and moan. Bitch winch. What does that mean? I don't know. Bitch winch and moan. We will do that. But as well as doing that, keep having a go. That's why we're here. That's why we exist as a species. To evolve. To grow. We are here to set big goals. We are going to fail occasionally. But here's the rub, James. Do you think people listening to this, We And it's a simple question, would rather consistently achieve mediocrity, and not follow their dreams, and never fail? Or, would they dare risk occasionally, tripping, stumbling, falling, failing, but achieve big from time to And big, from time to time. What would most people want to do more? Oh, I don't know. For me personally, it's the big dream, the massive dream. But then there are some people that I see who are just quite happily jumbling through life, but then there's others who I know from personal experience want to, want big things. As yesterday I watched a documentary and the guy said about, Bailing forward towards your intention. Yeah. I like that. I like that. And it was just clicked and I was like, Whoa, that was good. So basically you fail towards your goals rather than against your goals. Also if we're afraid of failure because of people not liking us or laughing at us, maybe we need better people around us. Because if you start hanging around with people who succeed at stuff, and consistently hang around with them, become friends with these people, earn their trust and respect the way you trust and respect them. They won't let you get down about failure. They'll just go, and what are you going to do about it? Instead of going, Oh, nevermind, James, we thought you wouldn't succeed. Why are we still hanging around with these people? Sometimes we do have to let people go. And I don't mean cast them off, never speak to them again. I just mean, don't let them influence who you are and what you do. I'm privileged that in my phone, because of all the interviews I've done with top achievers, I can pick up the phone to world champions of sport, neuroscientists, neuropsychologists. I can pick up the, I can pick up the phone. If I've got a question about business, I can pick up the phone to multi millionaires, serial entrepreneurs and go, can you help me with this? Dave, can you help me with this Jules? They'll go, really, Dave, really, and they will not let me wallow. They will pick me up, dust me down and go, have another go boy. And he, and this links beautifully James into the two things that top achievers run towards that most people run away from. And I don't know if you remember me saying these before, but top achievers run towards, and most people run away from support and accountability. You have been on a relentless journey of personal development and growth. Most people aren't brave enough to do that. They're terrified of learning about themselves. You're not. Most people are terrified to say, I need support, I need help. Because it's not in the British psyche. We're supposed to be stiff upper lip, you should know this. Crack on. No, we're human beings. Top achievers ask for help, but they ask for the right help, at the right level. They don't go to average people or read averagely written books. They go to top achievers for their information. So they are big enough and honest enough to know I need help. Occasionally, famously Richard Brunson surrounds himself with people who are brilliant at the stuff he doesn't know how to do, but then they are also fearless about accountability and most men. And notice what I said there. Women are better at this than men. Most men are terrified of accountability. In case it shows who they are. If in case it highlights the fact that they're a bit insecure and a bit of a coward. And so we avoid accountability through machismo, butchness, trying to show who we are as men, when in actual fact underneath again, Oh, nobody likes me really. Yeah. I'm just gonna have to go to the gym and make myself look hedge just to appear like a man instead of, and there's nothing wrong with that by the way, but nothing wrong with going to the gym, by the way, doing it for approval. He's ridiculous. Seek accountability. Get people who. You trust and respect to look you in the eye on a regular basis and go, okay, well done. You're doing that. I'm going to support you in that. Brilliant. This bit what's going on here then? If if you can get a little peer group of people around you, I call them a mastermind group, a little group of people who are so tight with you by that, I mean you're fearless in helping each other with support and accountability. Let's just say James. You and I are in this mastermind group. Let's just say one day I say, Oh no, I haven't done what I said. I'd do this month towards my massive goal. It's been a bit busy, had stuff. I'm going to say, I'm going to say, what's the real reason? And I'm going to look deeper into that reasoning because this reasoning is stopping you from progressing and quite right to thank you That's exactly what I would need. I would need Oh what I would not need is someone to go. Oh, never mind Let me tell you about my week. What I need is someone like that James to go really Dave? Really? Sorry. I thought you were better than that and make me feel appropriately And I'm not talking about bullying here. I'm saying all we need sometimes is someone just to give us a little around the face and say, come on back on track now, let's do this. And then support them in doing that. And that's the important thing. It's not about bullying. It's not about trying to be better or get one up my chip on your mates. It's about if you and I in this group, and I'm not failing you, Should be so good a friend to me. You don't let me fail. It should be the no. You're better than this. Come on. And if what you said earlier, if one of those cataclysmic experiences in life means I do fail at something, you don't laugh. You don't say they're there. You just say, okay, how are you bouncing back from this, Dave? What are you going to do? How are you responding? You are there. You should be so good a friend. You're prepared for me not to like you for a couple of hours. That's how good I call it a slap in a velvet glove. You, sometimes we all need a punch in the face or a high five in the face by someone wearing a velvet glove. I am so good a friend to you. I'm having you now. No, not acceptable, James. You said you would do this. How are you going to achieve your goal one year from now? If you haven't done this, let's look at this together. Let's sort this. That's what a top achiever would do. Surround themselves with people who are no fools, but you've got to be prepared to take it and give it. Just so the audience knows, I have been on that receding end with David in the past. And many, and the only reason I do that is because I know how it's helped me in the past. When I stopped, I've still got, I've got to be very careful how I say this because I've got, I've still got some friends who are not of this mindset. And it's difficult sometimes to be around them. Difficult, but they are good people. They're nice people and they're still my friends and always will be, been best man to a couple of them. And then there are others. There are people who I would. I would walk through walls for them. And I know they would walk through walls for me. We need to be careful who we hang around with. This leads on quite nicely, actually. This is where now the conversation turns a little bit to a bit more heart to heart. What do you personally define as a healthy man? Wow! A healthy man in my head. is someone who is sincerely happy, not pretending to be, is fearless in both positive and negative situations. Not just fearless in saying life's great. Fearless in saying life's bad, it's okay to talk. It's okay not to be okay, et cetera. I think A healthy man is someone who doesn't overeat like I do. Someone, I think a healthy man is someone who treats people with respect unless they show you they don't deserve it otherwise. And I think a healthy man today is okay with difference and a healthy man doesn't necessarily think he's better than anybody else, but also Doesn't think he's less than anybody else. I've never been asked that. I had to think about that. I've never been asked that before. It's more, I think. I see you personally as a very healthy man, in that respect that you're there of service, you're there, you help people, you're truly yourself to the people, you come from a place of the heart, wanting to help, and I feel as though a healthy man nowadays is somebody who, as you said, takes action, but is also very grounded. in what they're doing, knows what they want to do, speaks from the heart, is allowed to, allows himself to go into their heart to express their own emotions. Because I think in the past men have been at a point where they just, the old fashioned man struggles to speak their own mind, speak their own emotions, and quite often almost runs over people sometimes. And I think with today's society, things are changing. And so we need to help men, especially, not all men. But some men to navigate the current life. You used a word there that I love and that it's the ability to express yourself appropriately in all situations. That's a healthy man. So being able to express yourself when you're angry without. Your anger negatively impacting other people or a situation or a room, being able to express yourself when you're joyful and blissfully happy, being able to express yourself when you're scared because you're in a situation you don't understand or are genuinely scared of and being able to express yourself sincerely, congruently and authentically. Yeah, I like that word, James. Also, you mentioned earlier about acceptance of the things of perhaps things which kind of you see as negative. So acceptance of insecurities, acceptance of our own feelings, because like you said before, if you can accept them, you can then almost bring them in, love them and almost transform the energy into something a bit more positive. There's, yeah.'cause if you accept your weaker sides, your ex, your excuses, insecurities, failures, foibles. If you accept that, that is part of who you really are as a human being, rather than push them down and try and all the time, try and solve them, cure them. You know what, maybe sometimes we need to accept that's who we are and we can live with it. Because if you just understand it. You're at the whim of that thing controlling you. Actually on a personal note, right? Those who know me, or if you ever get to see a picture, you'll say I'm a chunky little guy. I'm a chunky guy. I'm a sphere, basically. Now, I used to be so devastatingly insecure. And all it would need, I could put on a good show, pretend I'm confident, but if someone had a go at me for being overweight, I would crumble inside. That's not authentic. Now, what I've learned is, okay, yeah, I want to do something about this, but I am doing it for me, not for other people. I'm doing it for me and my son. Not for other people. So I've accepted that over the years. And so if people ever do, and they don't necessarily the occasional trial on social media, but apart from that, if anyone has a go at me now, I just go. What a child, you poor little child. Really? They're, what they're doing is they're pointing out something so obvious to me. Now, if someone is afraid, telling them they're a coward, why should that upset them? Because if it's true, you go, yeah, and? It's like me saying to you're fit, James, you healthy person. Everybody's got something, but it would just like you say, Dave, you've got ridiculously black hair for a man of your age. Why aren't you gray? If people say to me, Dave, you're fat. Yeah. What's your point in the making? What point are you making here? Other than hurling sticks in a playground here, grow up. I haven't got the crayons or the inclination or the time to entertain you. Go away, little person. So your insecurities are who you are. So are your values. If your insecurities are around a need for acceptance, do something about it. Hang around with people who accept you. Stop trying to win approval and acceptance from people who, I nearly said something really naughty there who don't get you will never get you. Stop trying to be part of a team. That doesn't want you find a team that wants you to play for them. So that's, that just brings a bell. I just read a chapter in a book the way of the superior man. And the one in one of the chapters, it mentions about finds a woman or a partner in the respect of women. Listen to us as well, who accepts you and almost pursues you rather than you pursuing them. And then not pursuing you. So pursue people who pursue you and you pursue them, rather than finding people who you want, but they're running the other way. And this goes into count of relationships, friendships, anything, any relationship. I worked with a guy who I think, Sanjay Shah very good friend of mine, world authority on the subject of emotional intelligence. And I saw him work with a woman once who was really upset because she couldn't find a man. And he was asking her how it made her feel. And she was going, Oh, upset, needy and angry. And the angrier she got. And he helped to get angry. He said, so what do you think men look for? And she was going kindness loving, and this is, and do you feel kindness and loving? She says, no, I feel angry. He says how is that attractive to someone? And it was just like someone switched on this light bulb in her head. She went, oh my God, everything I'm doing. It's repelling the kind of person I want and he helped her let go of not push down anger and that resentment because she'd been dumped on badly by men, idiot men in the past. Then he helped her let go of that and just be. Loving, kind, and her features in her face softened, her complexion shone, and I'm talking within the space of an hour, and she just had been freed of this prison of rage and resentment because she realized she was angry with herself rather than men. And it's, it can be liberating. It can be truly liberating. Nice. But anybody wanted to get in contact with you, what's, how can they find you? And what's your contact details? If they get my name spelt right, I'm over the internet like a rash. So it's David Heiner. Heiner is H Y N E R, LinkedIn, YouTube, I'm over it like a rash. You'll find me. Davidheiner. com is my speaker website. Thank you very much, David. My pleasure, James. Lovely chatting to you. Yeah, and yourself.