High Standards, Mental Health, and Growth: A Conversation with Cain Leathem - Part 1

What does it mean to truly raise the bar in life? In this powerful conversation, Cain Leathem — a high-performance coach, veteran, and mental health educator — joins James to explore what it takes to move from self-sabotage and stagnation into purpose-driven growth.

Together, they unpack the often misunderstood difference between mental health and mental illness, and how language shapes stigma. Cain shares how negative self-talk and unrealistic expectations can quietly hold us back, and why meaningful change only happens when we’re truly ready — not when someone else pushes us.

From the precision of blood work to the value of rest days, Cain explains why small details matter, and how “doing it properly” beats quick fixes every time. He reflects on his own journey — from years of deep study in personal training, nutrition, NLP, and functional medicine, to raising his sons with presence, purpose, and boundaries.

James and Cain also discuss the emotional rollercoaster of growth, the invisible barriers we place on ourselves (like in box jumps and high jump), and how spiritual connection and stillness can lead to deeper wisdom and clarity.

Whether you’re struggling with self-doubt, chasing big goals, or simply trying to be more present in your life — this episode offers grounded insights, vulnerable reflections, and practical tools to help you on your path.

If you’ve ever felt stuck, burnt out, or unsure how to move forward — this one’s for you.

More About Cain:

Cain Leathem is one of Britain’s leading Exercise and Nutrition Consultants... having studied extensively aspects of the human body, exercise and nutrition, functional medicine, biomechanics, phlebotomy, DNA assessment, Neuro Linguistic Programming among many other related disciplines. He prides himself on constantly furthering his education and the sharing of this knowledge.

As a highly qualified and experienced consultant he has appeared on T.V./radio, and has been featured/written in many specialist magazines/newspapers. He is the author and course provider for his award winning Personal Trainer, Nutrition and First Aid for Mental Health Qualifications as well as owner and director of GB Fitness.

 As a personal trainer and nutritionist his clients range from complete beginners desiring fat loss and health enhancement to international athletes in elite competition (details available on www.gbfitness.com). He encourages health within the workplace and offers businesses advice on how to best maximise efficiency (and therefore profit) through the wellness and vitality of their employees. His expertise in this field has taken him worldwide including work in Africa, Malta, India, Germany, Turkey, Tenerife, Miami, Hollywood, Las Vegas, Estonia, Croatia , Italy, Switzerland, Finland, Cayman, Poland, Austria, Kuwait, Bahrain, Ireland, Greece and Hungary. Cain is a Professional Speaker and presents on all matters of health and optimal being – both physical and mental.

Cain is also a qualified NLP Master Practitioner and utilises this skill to motivate his clients and help instil a positive mood state in all the people that he meets.

Cain has been actively involved in the health industry for 30 years and has held many seminars including being a key speaker at the Federation of Holistic Therapists convention and the annual conference on ‘Childhood Obesity and Malnutrition’. 

www.gbfitness.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bfVAr30194

Transcript

0:00

In part one, I talk with Cain Lathan about having high standards over given and lifelong learning. We look at the difference between mental health and mental illness, And we take a deep dive into negative self talk and how we have to be ready to change. Welcome to Man: A Quest to Find Meaning, where we help men navigate modern life, find their true purpose, and redefine manhood. I'm your host, James, and each week, inspiring guests share their journeys of overcoming fear Embracing vulnerability and finding success. From experts to everyday heroes. Get practical advice and powerful insights. Struggling with career, relationships or personal growth? We've got you covered. Join us on Man Quest to Find Meaning. Now, let's dive in.

James: 0:59

Excellent. Is the result of caring more than others? Think is wise. Risking more than others think is safe. Dreaming more than others think is practical and expecting more than others think is possible. Good morning, Cain. Good morning. Tell me more. What does a statement, what does a statement mean?

Cain: 1:20

Okay, so it's actually a statement that I put into my award-winning courses in personal training, nutrition, and the like. But it's literally just wrapping up that people have different standards applications, expect different things in life, drive for different things. I love that we're all different, but me personally with the career path that I'm on, which I'm sure we'll get into it in a little bit a lot of people feel that I've probably. If the term is correct over studied. But I've moved from years of doing personal training and nutrition into studying sports therapy, NLP, master practitioner then looking more in depth at clinical measuring of blood work. Studying the newer generation of what's called functional medicine which would include microbiome testing via stool. So all things gut looking at hormonal in-depth testing including, circadian rhythms, cortisol patterns, things like that. Looking at DNA assessments, but with health markers in mind, not the ancestral stuff. I also teach and try to be proactive with issues around mental health. And I teach first aid for mental health. So two weeks ago, tomorrow we're speaking at Cardiff City Football stadium on issues and matters around mental health. And he started that with, look, let's use the correct words, terminology, words matter. People will talk about. For instance, mental health and automatically people look at that and the connotation, it's negative. And I said, just switch that around. If somebody come to you and said, I have mental health. Oh no. Now what if that same person came up and said, I Physical health, we'd be like, oh, great. What are you doing? Training, eating well, sleeping, all the good stuff. Why is one automatically positive, one automatically negative? And it's what we've become conditioned to. So I don't really go with that. I want to use the correct terminology. So poor mental health issues with mental health. Mental health is took a downturn. The difference between poor mental health and mental illness, which is, diagnosable and potentially treatable. I'm very much about the detail and I think that strap paragraph that you're open with kind of sums me up. So I like that.'cause I probably do. Putting too much effort for my clients. This morning I've had two people. I've done blood work and, lovely people. One I've worked with before. The other lady who's not long left this is her first blood, work through me, but I do work with her daughter. And for instance, just as an example, it's not a big deal, but she was supposed to bring a questionnaire and a food diary and all the things that I'd pre-sent weeks ago, and she's oh, I'm sorry, I forgot it. So I was like, no problem. I'll print it all off, bring it with you next week, get it to me in advance. That's what I do. One of the little catchphrases again. If you wanna call it cliche, but I finished the mental health talk in Cardiff two weeks ago was do sweat. The small stuff, the details do matter. And in this day and age, and especially with what I call on social media, everybody's an expert on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube and fast bookers I call it. And when you speak to them, oh, what makes you a personal trainer? I've been to the gym twice. What makes you a nutritionist? Somebody did my diet so I know what I'm doing. And worse when it comes to issues around counselling mental health, NLP, there are courses out there that you can do online, no exam for two hours and get certificate from, one of these 29 pound group on living socials, whatever they are. And it just, it's not even angers me. It scares me. That people are putting their trust, physical and emotional wellbeing, which I looked called optimal being. And again, that's just raising the bar. So give you a little example, a mutual friend of ours who's all about setting the bar super high. And I can say that I was somewhat instrumental in actually using that term, setting the bar high in a very practical way. And that gentleman you'll know as the Rhino David Hyner. Oh gentlemen, I've known him for 25 years and the raising the bar was actually 25 years ago when he was doing, he's what I like to call homework. He's very stringent and did a lot of study and interviews and information gathering before he, became the wonderful speaker and huge motivational person for especially school children. He's done some work with my oldest son Oscar when I was coaching him through the 11 plus. But anyway, back in would've been 2000, 19, nine, 2000. He interviewed, I took her in actually a girlfriend of mine at the time who was an international high jumper, seven times Welsh high jump champion. Went on to win a silver medal at the Commonwealth Games in Melbourne. And that is literally. A bar, which is seen as a physical barrier. And the example that I would give is, and I worked with David on this and Julie psychologically, if I went down to watch her train, it was in, in Solihull. She was with Birchfield Burg train at soy hall. So if I watched her train, because when I get into something, I study to the nth degree. So I'm no high jump coach. But I became pretty knowledgeable in high jump. And the biomechanics. And the technicalities off never was her high jump coach. I did the strength, condition and nutrition. But let's put it this way when I started working with her, and she'd had weren't going into great details, but injuries and issues I said, the person you're working with at the moment and he was very high up in, the coaching hierarchy. Isn't the right person for you? Quite frankly, he's dangerous. She was so impressed with the new coach that we found'cause we, broke up by this time. But I was still helping her. Still a friend. She was so impressed with the new coach. She married him and she's got a couple of kids with him and he is an awesome high job coach for, British squad and the like. But going back to the story, if I took the bar away, she's a high jump pad. Did you know a 12 step run up arch over the bar? Except she couldn't arch over the bar because this previous coach had as good as crippled at, and she had completely degeneration in three discs, three degenerated discs in the lumbar, vertabre. She was in a lot of pain and a lot of issues, a lot of treatment to get her through her training, which I said was successful. Went onto a silver medal, but she couldn't arch over the bar so she would actually jump straight. She didn't have that backward bend. Basically, I. Through no fault of room. So I said we, you've gotta jump differently. Your coach is obsessed with you arching over the bar and being a certain way. You need to have more power through that one takeoff lick because once you hit your optimum height, you are coming down'cause you can't articulate over the bar. That approach works. But going back to the bar, this physical barrier, if you put the bar there, she would hit the bar at a certain height, took the bar away. I would stand to the side, film it, and she would clear where that bar would've been. She was hitting the bar because the bar was there. And that's when people say set the bar high because doing some psychological kind of techniques, it's forget about the bar. I mean it has to be the end competition. I think if they modernized high jump and had a kind of laser break and actually assessed where people jumped, then we would see world records getting smashed. But anyway, we taught her to. Literally pretend the bar wasn't there. And guess what? She went on to PB and win a silver medal at the Commonwealth Games. So that again, is my philosophy. People very often, and I do it, we've all done it. We sell ourselves short. You've gotta decide what is important to you, and if you really want it to make the effort and go that extra mile that other people won't. And that's what I've done in my profession. So again, going back to, have I ever studied, I don't think so, because I can offer services and the quality of those services with great confidence over and above. And again, since out most people that I know. So there will be specialists in certain hormonal areas of nutrition or maybe contest prep for athletes and this that, but I genuinely don't know anybody that does it all with the mental the physical, the testing of but that's taught me 33 years. So that's summing up the paragraph.

James: 9:12

It's alright. There's a few key things, and I think you're completely right. In order to move through life and to really progress, there has to be a level of growth. And I feel as though when you get to a point where you stop growing, you stop a segment net. So I've been on this I've barely been on this journey for 10 years, but what I've noticed is how I went from depression, anxiety, not knowing where I was going and bit by bit, step by step. And they were never big steps. And actually when you're taking the steps, there's a little bit of confusion. Am I doing the right thing? Is this right for me? And so you have to have that faith, that kind of that drive to just keep going. And this is where it's got me to now. And I feel like. Growth. We as human beings need to have that growth in order to excel. But it's just one of those things, I think sometimes people get into this place where Espec especially. Yeah. I think we get to a place where we get sometimes get a little bit stagnated and I suppose sometimes being stagnated is a good thing because stagnation allows us to see where we can improve.

Cain: 10:29

Yeah. At the time it gives us thinking time and I will, sorry, cut in. But I will say because you, Taipei personalities, if you're looking to human psychology and stuff, are very driven by goals. But I will. Give the flip side of that coin and you're absolutely right and if something inspires us, who should work towards it? And it won't always be easy and growth and small steps, although David would argue somewhat, make it a huge goal and go for it anyway. But doesn't mean we can't do the small steps to get there, but sometimes, and I've learned this since I've got a little older, not too old mine, but a little older. Most just being in the moment and not putting pressure on you.

James (2): 11:04

And

Cain: 11:04

more than putting on yourself. I have two young children and we were just in the late district, came back yesterday and it's just nice being in the moment, the pair of now and the monks sold these Ferrari and all that good stuff because I think in the modern commercial world. People very often judge their success by their financial gain and possessions and stuff. And what about your spiritual wellbeing? What about literally your happiness? Because, I've traveled around the world. I've been to some amazing places. The rainforest in Venezuela. I worked in Africa, I toured around America for three months. When I came out the Air Force I've seen a lot of the world. And I'm not saying I don't wanna see more, and especially as my children get older, but now my time with them, I kinda explain how precious it is. And I know everyone's oh, I look my kids so much, and but literally they, I'm twice married and divorced. I've been single for literally seven years. That's a long time to be single. But, and especially for me, I'd enjoyed my single life, if but really that stuff doesn't matter anymore. I'm not saying I'm close to it, but I'm not looking for it. And literally spending time and watching them, play. The simplest things in life really mean so much to me now. So goal striving where I've trained Olympians, world record holders, achieved good things in academia. I studied master's degree at Chester University, ward three Liverpool in exercise, nutrition science, which I ended up teaching on'cause and again, it's not being bigheaded, I've been in the industry. I actually had more relevant experience than the tutors and the head of the department called me in and I thought, oh, am I gonna get a bit of a, you seem to be struggling, type thing. And he actually said, look, looking at your resume, would you give some guest talks on sports nutrition for us? Because we, and this was quite a confession'cause it was a brand new course, this is many years ago before, we got a trend and it was an offshoot of the sports science, but they didn't have nutritionist on the faculty. So I was actually more relevantly experienced. Qualified than the tutors. So that's why I've always set high standard because I want to be in a room and I don't have to be the best, but I want to contribute. So I go to many seminars and online webinars and it's about giving back. Same with the veterans. I do what I can. I never did anything great, heroic and wonderful in the Air Force. I was a cog in a will and a very important one. I was a weapons technician, an armor. So there's a sign in the Air force, especially with armorers, without armaments. The Air Force is just a fancy flying club for rich folk, and it really is. If you're not strapping bombs, missiles, and, to save them ejection systems, which is a big part of what I did on onto an inter fighters, then, it's a jolly for the boys, but everybody has to trust each other. When that pilot or nav pulls the handle in the, it's called a Martin Baker rejection seat, they have to absolutely trust that what we've done is a good job. And that's the way I was raised as a child. Quite disciplined, strict I was in the Air Force at 17 and a half and that's all I know and I've carried that over. And I think you get a lot of that with military veterans and the frustration that, I've been a c for many years, but you'll hear veterans don't have bloody cities. They're never on time. They never do this, they never do that. And it's not that they're critical, it's that lives depended upon their efficiency to the nth degree. There's a saying, if you're on time, you're late. So the six Ps I drum into my boys and they think it's funny to say it's penguins and it's PS and it's, they know what it means. Proper preparation prevents, I'll just say P'cause that's what I say to the boy, boys, people performance. But it is, and again, that's going back to that paragraph, but talking about goal setting and growth, sometimes you have to take a step back and go, not today. Today's a rest day. Today's a walk in nature. Today's a go and have a beer and a beer garden if you, or go to the gym, you don't have to pb just go and enjoy it. Whereas again, life has become, in my experience, of working with so many people across so many different demographics of life. Be age, be it fitness, be you know, where they are in their life financially, wherever it's push, push. And I'm a absolute bugger for that. And I have been for many years and it's only on reflection that now, like I said, my two boys, eight and 13, who are absolutely amazing, but I will not take a day away from them, for instance, have them every Saturday. For pretty much anything. Pretty much anything. One exception in the last few years has been Remembrance Day and March with the Armors very proudly, from all guard past the center stuff. This year I'm not doing that'cause I wanna take my older boy down. But people, can you run a course on a weekend? No, I've got my boys. Can you see me? I've been offered positions with sporting clubs, let's say it's football, for instance, games on a Saturday. No but we'll pay you really well. You can't pay me enough to neglect my boys because that might be how they see it.'cause remember, they're not with me every day. So Saturday's Daddy's day and it's non-negotiable. Now that gives me growth in here. Not in my bank accounts. Not in my business in here. And I think people need to remember that growth isn't always about what you've got. Maybe it's about what you give.

James: 16:27

Yeah. Was a one thing I've come to realize. This year and probably end of last year, is it's great striving. It's, I, my, my head always wants to be doing this, the productivity mindset. But if I, when I shift myself outta my head and into my body, especially into my chair, into my heart's more like just be, yeah, just chill, breathe. Because quite often what I find is that when we are able to connect to our heart, we go beyond what we can physically know, and we are able to connect something more. It's hard to explain. We're able to connect something a lot more spiritual, a lot more knowing. It's more like knowing, and it's this idea that when you're able to connect to your heart on this deep basis, you are able to connect into, I feel. Ancient wisdom. Wisdom, which isn't nothing out here, it's in here.

Cain (2): 17:28

Yeah.

James: 17:29

And that's a huge thing. And also I was gonna mention when you're talking about the high jump, one thing I've come to I'm a big CrossFitter, right? And one thing we're doing about a month ago was jumping jumping, but like box jumps. And I was, yeah. So I was about here, I was jumping to about that height, probably my chest height. But I got to a point where my mind was literally, I can't, and literal I tried, but I couldn't cross that barrier. Yeah. And it's just eye-opening how when you're able to shift that barrier, you are able to do it.

Cain: 18:09

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Good example. Again, if you took that away and if somebody filmed you from the side, but'cause we're about preservation, so it's not the same. But for instance, I don't like heights. Say I'm scared of heights, whatever. Okay. So if my rin around the house is a bit blocked up, which thankfully it isn't, I'd rather pay somebody than, and I've got the ladders and I'll go up the ladders if I need to do it and clear it, but my knees are shaking, my belly's flipping and my head's going just pay somebody to do it. So many years ago, and I've, not been a fan of heights from where I remember my whole life. So years ago I took up skydiving and did 83 solo jumps and this, and every single time I Dr. Drove into a drop zone and of several here, so Langer dunk as well, I. In turn, Western on the green, even in Spain, Seville, et cetera. And every single time in my head I'm going, what have you got to prove? Why are you doing this? You've done the jumps, you're still scared. Oh, it doesn't make a difference. I loved being out of the plane once I've exited. Love it under canopy. Love it. But going up there, the anticipation and that is pushing me, as you said, into growth. And we do have to challenge ourselves within the realms of safety. And that's what's happening when you're trying that bunk shops. You'll look at it and all the reasoning in the world and go, it's a nice, big soft foam. Box, it's not made of, steel or corrugated iron or wood or something. Nowadays, the player box is in the gyms. It's not gonna hurt that much if I smack into it. But that takeoff, people,'cause I've done it with people, doing plyometric training, especially track and field athletes in the left, and it's like somebody's nailed them to the floor and it's look, I've raised it two inches from the last one, which you cleared by five inches. So it's a really good, parallel what you said with the high jump. And sometimes it's that, don't worry if you're scared, face your fear and do it anyway. There's nothing wrong with being scared. That's normal. It's healthy because if you're not scared, that's one thing they said, I gave up skydiving when we were expecting my first born Oscar, the older and sold all my stuff. And that was because, I. For instance, it was what's called a boogie, which a big get together, two people plowed in. I won't go into it. One was seriously injured. The other one unfortunately lost his life. And I was supposed to be there that day jumping, and it was down to what they did. People take risks, but I wasn't and would not be willing for that to happen. And the impact it would have at the time on my son and now my sons. There is a self preservation thing and we need to listen to it. But then sometimes it's pretty unfounded. Like I said, what's gonna happen if you hit the bar and high jump, poof, the bar's gonna come off. Unfortunately, it's not a, legal jump. You get a second go. What's gonna happen if you hit the foam player box? Okay? It's embarrassing more than it's hurtful. It's gonna hurt your pride. It's not gonna hurt you physically, but. What I would do is then that's when you know a little bit of a pep talk and we take the hike back down and we build your confidence and even film it from the side. And that's one thing I'm good at is gaining trust. But doing that because I can explain in great detail what's going on and what needs to be done. Whereas a lot of coaches, PTs, it's that just do it. Come on. If you've got a brain, it's about survival. Just do it isn't good enough. Have the depth of knowledge and understanding and respect for that person and why things aren't getting done.'cause this might be everyday behavior such as, are they eating well or not? Are they drinking too much? Are they sleeping? Are they taking their supplements, are they doing their stretching? Are they doing their daily walk, whatever. And some people, those are massive. Issues and barriers and to others it's like just what's the big deal? And if you've got social anxiety going outside for a walk in fresh air, which ironically and we're talking about, you've got the serotonin that raises your mood and that's gonna trigger melatonin so you sleep better and that's gonna help your mood and your immune system and your hormones. But also social interaction, especially outdoors. BDNF, which is basically brain repair. Hormone slash chemical. I was talking about that when it came to mental health in Cardiff'cause of the issue around COVID and Lockdowns. So me and my boys, regardless of the weather, we interact, we go out, we went to the lake district, right? And the weather today is beautiful. On Tuesday it was peeing down. When we arou we arrived. So what did we do? Did we cancel the going out on the lake on the boats?'cause the boys were stealing their little, just a little, lightweight, motorized, slow boat around the lakes. No, because what message am I sending to them? If we're like, okay, we're only gonna live a comfortable life. We're only gonna do things when it's perfect. We went out there and they had the best time. They, I think they enjoyed it more because it was raining for a start. Everything was really quiet and the lake was empty, give or take. But it was just fun that, they were steering the boat. Driving it as they called it, under canopy. But then I made sure they came out and they took in the scenery and they were in the moment, they were enjoying it for what it was. So I'm waffling on a little bit, but yeah people need to, not always, every day doesn't have to be, they need to achieve today. Maybe you need to recharge. If you pick up the mobile phone and it's losing a bit of power, plug it in, then don't wait till it goes dead. And then you've gotta plug it in and you're worrying about the call that you might miss, or God forbid, the post on social or on social media, and if we took the same approach to our bodies, which was to listen, and that's why it's great when I do things like the bloods, because it might be that I see somebody's heading towards an issue, but they're not there. It hasn't manifested itself as yet. So I'm very proactive with it about health assessments. I offer everything wherever I do, whichever labs. And I work with labs all around the world. They've done it cost, price, so it's as accessible as it can be. I'll educate people, ask your GP or the hospital for this and I'll give them a run through and explanations.'cause let's face it, if you do have a health issue, you shouldn't necessarily be paying for tests, if you're under consultant or the GP care, but sometimes they're a bit lost and I'm not being critical as to what even to test. So if I can put them in the right direction, and again, that's that being excellent and it sounds bigheaded, but it, it is what I strive for, but it's not always about me achieving. I do achieve indirectly'cause I love helping people into better health. Whether it's, dealing with a health issue, illness, disease, or winning, a gold medal at the Olympic set the world record. And I've helped people on both ends of that spectrum, if you wanna call it that. One of the most satisfying things ever did with all the champions. I've got world record holders, the lady's still in touch now, her son's about 17, 18, and it was a kind of fertility issue with PCOS and stuff. I'll go into details, but she's still in touch now. Because she was told she'd never naturally conceive. And even with IVF it was, a gamble and a risk. And she conceived naturally because of the help that I gave. But I could only do that'cause she invested in my advice. She trusted it. And thankfully it worked, so that feeds my soul. And more so now, because, this was years ago, my oldest is 13 and so I'm saying this LEDs 18, her son. So I didn't fully get the love is capable of and the impact and the beauty that children can have on your life. And now when I think about what I helped her do, oh, that's. It's not life changing, it's life making. And if we could all think about others a little bit, and I mean by what we contribute and what we share and what we give to others.'cause I don't think we credit ourselves enough with that. And whether people appreciate it or not. I've helped people for years with all sorts of things, never hear from them. Whereas in contrast, this lady still keeps in touch. And that's just people. But you know what, I know what I've done. I know how I've felt. And if we could all do that and be a bit more open-minded and open-hearted, oh, wouldn't the world be a better place? Especially now. The world's a crazy place, isn't it? Jesus Christ.

James: 26:07

Yeah. Taste crazy news.

Cain: 26:08

I try not to watch the news. I try not to read newspapers, but, I need to keep up to date, know what's going on. My God. It's depressing. It's absolutely depressing. Don't even know what I'm laughing because I am genuinely fearful for the world. My children will live in 10, 15, 20 years.

James: 26:25

I was gonna ask you to tell me about yourself, but we have, I feel as though over the last probably 10 minutes, we've covered that. So what I'm interested in is you were mentioning about mental health and how when people hear the word mental health, they think, oh no, what's going happen? What's that all about?

Cain: 26:46

Okay, so the first slide, and I give talks given talks on issues around male suicide, which is horrendous statistically, especially within the veteran community, male and female, but males massively, but females. But I start some of my mental health talks, and I did two weeks ago in Cardiff with, it's a quote by bipolar.com. I always like to, credit my tutors and if somebody's made a quote, I'm not pretending everything's from me. And it's, we all have mental health. You have mental health, I have mental health, you mental health. There's a lot of buzzwords, a lot of talk about it, and everyone's trying to solve problems and that's nice, but let's just respect that it isn't always a bad thing. And yes, we want to improve our own and others, but let's assess where somebody is and where they want to be and what's practical.'cause maybe this, wonderful utopia that people want to live in where everything's perfect. Maybe that's not realistic. We all have up days, damn days, good days, bad days. We're trying to optimize what our mental health should be. Because if I used the parallel with physical health. And I've got, 18 on Beach Champions, 14 World Champions, six Miss Universe winners, four world record holders on my cv. Now, if I took regular clients, so I've got a lady coming to see me this afternoon, we're gonna do some very gentle, lightweight training, at home training. She was a client many years ago. There's been some health problems over the years. Lovely lady. Now am I gonna train her? Like I would, one of the professional football players or a world record holder in cycling, guy Dave Gras, who's an awesome guy. He's written his auto biographies, health issues. He's a older now in the last few years, and he's a phenomenon. This guy's a machine. And he's been a top coach to many cyclists. You'd know the name himself. And he wrote in his book, Canin Changed My Life. And it was because I did some NLP with him, which he called that mind Shit. So he came to see me for his nutrition. Many of his cyclists who were great in gonna the Olympics, he was coaching them. Came to me for some strength conditioning and nutrition work years ago.'cause once you work successfully with one type of athlete, you get loads calling you. And they kept saying to him, Dave, you gotta go see Kane. You gotta go and see Kane. And he's in Essex, I'm in Birmingham. And he eventually came up and we did some nutrition and this guy was, I mean he was like, he's 25 times world champion. He hadn't got the world record of been after many years. He says, you've gotta improve your nutrition.'cause this guy was running on sandwiches, cans of coke and cigarettes and beer, and I was like, imagine if you had the right fuel and recovery. And he says, you do that mind shit, don't you? I says, if you mean neurolinguistic programming, yeah, I do that in LP mind. Shit. He was so impressed with what we did.'cause it helped him get the world record for years. He actually studied it and he helped his athletes, his cyclists. By me doing something that helped him, he was like, I wanna do that for others. So with that. In mind, where am I gonna go in the future with this as well, is something, because you're talking about growth, and I'll be honest, I'm gonna say cards on the table. I feel a little bit stagnant because, I know what I'm doing is high-end work, but I wouldn't say I've run out of challenges. But it's almost should I cruise for a bit, being happy where I am, knowing I'm making a difference? Or do I need to raise the bar? Because something inside of me goes, you need to raise a bar. You need to raise a bar. Can you need to do something new? You need to keep growing. And sometimes you need to go, you know what I'm doing is enough. At the moment, I've been watching yourself, develop and grow and your podcasts and these interviews. And I think it's fair to say you've probably picked stuff up the same as I've picked up off, literally seen thousands of clients over the years. But going back to the, would I push everybody like, this lady's coming see me this afternoon, like an Olympic sprinter? No. So everybody with their mental health, like their physical health maybe has a different end goal. And for someone

James (2): 30:43

that's

Cain: 30:43

going through mental turmoil, let's say it's PTSD or something like that, just being free of that is enough. We don't have to always walk around with massive smiles on our faces, just being free of pain and anguish. Maybe that's enough. Maybe that's enough forever that they can just close their eyes without demons and, flashbacks, or maybe they'll get to that point. And like you said, with the stepping stone, small steps, maybe that will be enough to get them onto the next step. And again, don't always strive for perfection, be it physical health or emotional health. When I speak on issues around emotional slash mental health have this big thing about we all have it, we're all in a different place, but maybe the place we're striving for is different for each of us as well. I've got a picture above my head. I'll do this if I may, that says, you can see it, think about things. And the word differently is underneath. And I say to my clients what you want, and therefore what you'll get from me is different to what I would want for myself and what other clients want for themselves. I have no set agenda that I'm trying to make everybody optimally, physically and emotionally, mentally perfect. Because let's face it, I deal with top, top bodybuilders. I used to be into that. I was knocking around body bottles for many years and had the muscular aesthetic shape and the ridiculous low body fat and all that kind of stuff. And at the end of the day, it's nice to see that in the mirror. Doesn't make a massive difference to your life. Not really, at the time it did. I was over since flesh. I was teaching in Grand Cayman, my, my courses PT and nutrition. So I went to walk in the room and people go, whoa, this guy knows what he's about. You know what I'm about? It's this muscle between my ears. I could go in there looking whatever. What I'm impart in is knowledge. But at the end of the day, excuse the French bullshit baffle brains, if you look the part, but again. I know people who look amazing emotionally, they are not happy and possibly because of things they've done to get there. The restrictions in diet time away from the family, not having a drink on a hot summer's day, not enjoying a dessert. We need to stop putting people in little boxes and understand the world is massively diverse and to appreciate we can learn from each other, but we don't have to be each other again. So long-winded answer, but individuality to me is everything. When I do the testing, when I do plans, when I do diets, when I do training programs, it's about doing it with and in conjunction with and through conversation with my client. I have no

James: 33:20

Yeah.

Cain: 33:20

I have no set script. And this is another problem with on social media, oh, I'm doing you a bespoke nutrition plan. Really the same plan. They've emailed to a thousand of other people because what questions have they asked you? The lady this morning came, she's had some previous blood work and she's retired. And I says, did they put this into context? Did they ask why are you having them? Are you taking supplements? What medications are you on? What are your goals? No, they've just run my bloods. You can't recite the results blindly because for instance, the test I've done in this morning we're measuring things like B vitamin D. She's had to stop her supplements a few weeks ago to get, her baseline levels without the influence of the supplements. Now I'll alcohol for three, four days. No hard training for three, four days water only in Lazo for the last 12 hours. These things for some people seem ugh, that's a bit finicky, that's a bit strict. That's a bit, that's a bit correct is what it is. That's how we get things done properly. Okay? Do sweat the small stuff. So when I get the results back, which will be tomorrow or the next day, I'll know that it's not been skewed by bad practice. And when people say, why didn't the doctor sell me that? Why didn't the hospital sell it? Maybe they don't have the same standards, maybe they don't have the time or the inclination to take the time to explain why this is important. Maybe then no people won't listen. But if somebody comes to me and they say, actually, I've forgot I had a drink yesterday. I did a workout yesterday. I've had my breakfast this morning. Go, you know what? Let's reschedule.'cause I'm about doing things properly or not.

James: 34:53

This brings me perfectly to the idea. This is do with my car. So I recently ever had a bad stint in my car in about to have two. I about to have a new dual mass flywheel in the engine. And it went to this place, this garage, and I thought, yeah, this is perfect. It's close, it's cheap. And went there. I've

Cain: 35:14

Long mow going off close and cheap. Convenient.

James: 35:16

Yeah. They didn't do it properly, so it churning again. And I took it to, they basically bought a secondhand one thinking it would be all right. But what I didn't know is that on manuals compared to automatics, you have to use precision equipment to, to set it, to set the jaw mass fire wheel. And so it churned up and I ended up just about making it to a sc in s about half an hour, 40 minutes away. And they said, you can't drive us back. You're going to end up breaking down. So I have to have a whole new a whole new dual mask flywheel, and it cost me twice as much as what it was, but it's more, it's, some people don't want to know. About how they can make it better or are they doing it right? Because if they do, it's more, it's harder work. It takes time, it takes effort. And this goes on quite nicely. You are talking about earlier how mental health is very, it's, it is mental health, physical health, emotional health, spiritual health, all individual because we're all individual beings, but I do feel we are connected just to throw that in there. Yeah. But I feel as though, when it comes to individual stuff, it's this idea like relationships, when somebody breaks up in a relationship, some people find it really easy to move on. Others take, I, for me, myself, I've taken three years from a breakup. Just so I can heal properly so that I can do the work, the growth, and what I find is that. Some people really find it quite hard. I know people at the moment who are just really struggling because of a a relationship and it's, as somebody who's, it's hard to understand sometimes what person's going through because you are not living their experience. And it's almost about listening and supporting rather than saying, you could try this, and this. Yeah. We don't always have to

Cain: 37:24

Help or fix as much as we might. You just have to sometimes be there. It's a really good point, James. Yeah.

James: 37:31

Yeah, and it just I was initially trying to fix, but then I realized, oh, I'm stepping into what a lot of men do, I think is they step into fixing mode, but sometimes we just need to pull ourselves back and step into the listening mode. Allowing them to be heard is a big one. And what I wanted to talk about, you mentioned about with mental health, how obviously we all go through our own individual battles, whatever it is. And sometimes we are caught in this trap of negative self-talk.

Cain: 38:05

Big time. Yep.

James: 38:06

And how it's very, we get caught in this spinning this I probably call a hurricane we can't get out of. How do you work with clients who are in that position and what do you, how can you help them?

Cain: 38:23

Good question because I will say, and straight into my head, some people aren't ready for help. So when somebody comes to me, and this might be for a diet, might be training, might be mental health, advice, help canceling whatever when somebody else calls on their behalf. Good question because I will say, and straight into my head, some people aren't ready for help. So when somebody comes to me, and this might be for a diet, might be training, might be mental health, advice, help canceling whatever when somebody else calls on their behalf. Always very dubious about, is this because somebody's trying to be the helper, fixer? Or is this because the person that is involved the client wants it. So I always say let's say it's your partner, husband, wife, boyfriend, girlfriend, son, daughter or mom, dad, whatever. Have you spoke to them? Is this something they want? Are they ready for the changes that is gonna put them into a better place? Or do you want to help them? Which is admirable, it's applaudable, but maybe they're not in the place to accept and they're not ready and you are putting unnecessary pressure on them. And ultimately, you might be paying money for something. Somebody isn't gonna follow up, you're absolutely right. And there's men, I think we want to be that provider, that fixer, but each person that comes to me's what do you want from me? How can I help you? And it's amazing how many people will call me book in and they go I'm not sure. And then it's very organic and conversational. A consultation with me will take hours. I go in with no preconceived ideas. Yes, I might have previous health history, blood test results. They fill in a four pace questionnaire, keep a training and food diary and all of that. But what happens when we go into conversation very often, the destination of what they thought they wanted and the reality are hugely different. They're different postcodes, they're even the same vicinity. So opening up and giving somebody room to talk when somebody's ready. I want them to ask for it, not for somebody else to ask for it. They say, whether it's addiction, whether whatever it is, you've really gotta open your heart and mind up to the fact that there is a problem before you will seek help. Because you might go, yeah, I do this too much, I do that too much. I don't do enough of this. But you in denial the minute you go, actually this is starting to be a problem, or it could be a problem. I need to go and seek advice, help, mentoring, whatever it might be. But I think it's very important the person is involved in that decision. And, rather than being intervention by those people around that's one point I would make. If somebody's not ready they're not ready for change.

41:10

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