The Truth About Fear, Imposter Syndrome, and The 5 F's of Fear | David "Pep" Anderson (Part 2)

In this heartfelt and hilarious episode of Man: A Quest to Find Meaning, James sits down with poet and wellbeing mentor David Anderson, also known as Pep the Poet, for a conversation that weaves together fear, humor, healing, and the power of playfulness.

David shares his signature “Five F’s” of fear response — Fight, Flight, Freeze, Flock, and… the cheeky one — and introduces us to the metaphor that changed his life: The Lifeboat. Once drowning in anxiety and self-doubt, David reveals how asking for help, surrounding himself with a “CPU” (Close Protection Unit), and rediscovering his inner child helped him rewrite his story.

We explore the healing power of humor, the importance of giving ourselves permission to be silly, and why playfulness isn’t just for children — it’s a crucial tool for adults navigating stress, fear, and identity. From making mud pies and singing in the rain to confronting imposter syndrome and setting boundaries with “drains” vs. “radiators,” this episode is a refreshing mix of deep wisdom and joyful storytelling.

Whether you’re feeling overwhelmed by modern life or simply in need of a laugh, this episode offers practical tools and poetic insights to help you return to yourself — with compassion, clarity, and a good dose of silliness.

About David:

www.davidanderson.uk

www.pepthepoet.co.uk

Transcript

0:00

In today's episode, we talk about the five Fs of fear response. We look at the power of humor and playfulness. David talks about his lifeboat metaphor, which helped him to change his life story. And the difference between drains versus radiators and how these affect the people around you. Welcome to Man: A Quest to Find Meaning, where we help men navigate modern life, find their true purpose, and redefine manhood. I'm your host, James, and each week, inspiring guests share their journeys of overcoming fear Embracing vulnerability and finding success. From experts to everyday heroes. Get practical advice and powerful insights. Struggling with career, relationships or personal growth? We've got you covered. Join us on Man Quest to Find Meaning. Now, let's dive in.

James: 1:01

You mentioned the five F's. Can you go through the five F's with us please?

David: 1:06

Yeah. They're a bit naughty actually because of the, let you remember, I say, I always talk about the five F's, the fight, fright, flee, freeze, flock, and reproduction. Which was quite naughty actually. And I think what it is was the, there's the fight or flights when you've got a, when you've got a situation, you're confronted the fear. You can either run away or you can deal with it. And that it's, and sometimes you've only got a split decision to make that, you get these people that win, like prior to Britain, they've run into a building and pulled people out when it's on fire they've dived into a raging river and pulled a child out and when you interview the masters, I, I can just about swim a length of the pool. I don't know what come over me. And it's just that sometimes you have that and, being a firefighter, that you know that's heroic, absolutely heroic. So it's that fight or flight. So first of all, we have to decide if we're gonna fight or we're gonna flight. I tend to go for flight along long, a lot of the time being the coward that I am. And then there's freeze. And that,'cause, sometimes with an animal that, that they could be eating something and then a big lion comes on and they just freeze. But I think what I mean as well in, in society freeze, just stop taking the situation. If you're worrying about something stop. Right, and that's the que right? Because you can feel your self spiraling. How much of this is real? What evidence is it happening today? Am I an immediate danger now? No. And then the and the flock, I always think about the flocking was beam with, I call it my CPU. I have a thing called a Close Protection unit. And when you get like superstars or royalty and it's lovely now that I was watching the podcast the other day and the Royal family, they're on social media now and Prince William and Kate. And it's lovely, but and they go out, they shake hands with the crowd and it's lovely, but they've got two or three big bodyguards around them and if anybody comes forward they'll protect them. And I have a CPU, I have a close protection unit and they all know who they are. There. There's my wife who's the head of my CPU with two boys, Leo and Ryan. There's my mate, big Al. There's my former de head teacher I used to work with me mate, Lee Pace, who co-wrote the book with me. There's Big Al and there's my sponsor from AA and Alex. And then my sisters Annemarie and Helen. They're my immediate close protection unit. Then I've got layers around them, so if you ever tried to attack me, you've gotta get past them. And and big Al's six foot seven, so he wouldn't be messing about with him. Yeah. So I, and when I say with my CPU. Sometimes we have I think it was Steve Harvey that, the American talk show host. He said there's nothing kills a big dream better than small-minded people going round. And I've got this idea I'm gonna ask everybody, and everybody gets their opinion. In the end, you talk yourself out of it. If I have an idea, I go to my CPU first of all. So my, my flock, my tribe. You know what I mean? Yeah, so there's fight, flight, freeze, flock, and I for I forget the fifth one, but whatever it is. But it's about reproduction. But yeah. So yeah, I hope that helps.

James: 4:17

Yeah. Yeah. The CPU sounds pretty much if you are in a little bit of trouble. Yeah. Say for example, you do have a little bit of money issues. Yeah. You've got your CPU to assist.

David: 4:30

Do example, I've got friends and I've got great friends, I've got businesses, I've got contacts. And the other week I was a bit, I've been a bit worried lately because obviously this time last year that, I was fully booked for October's National Poetry Week next year in March's World Book week. And I was absolutely blocked and I was booked out and I'm then, I've still got a lot of gigs coming in, but I was solid. It was great. But at the moment I'm classed as an enrichment activity for schools. I'm the icing on the top of the cake. ISN it and it's like you, so it's one, this is one of the first things that cut back. It shouldn't be cut back because, poetry helps children to express themselves. It helps'em to write it. It's great for the self-confidence, it's great for the self-worth. It's just, it's a wonderful vehicle for all round thing. And I would say that being a poet, but it is, but that's cut back. So my financial insecurities, I've been riddled with it lately. And you can go around, said to you, mate, oh, can you give us a hundred quid? But that's great if you've gotta pay that back. I spoke to my mate, Carl, who was the head teacher where I used to work, and I said, do you think I'd be all right teaching a secondary school? He says, yeah, I think you'd be great, because he knows me and he's seen me teaching and he's my minimum mate for 10 years. I've got my mate Lee, who's works in a secondary school, middle school. She said, no, Dave, you'd be absolutely fantastic. They're the ones I seek the advice from. I could ask one of in mates who's a, who loves me, who's a construction worker, for example, who's never ever seen me in class. He could say, oh Pep, I think you're great. But he's never actually seen me teach. And then I think Carl then put me in touch with a local secondary school. I went to meet the head teacher and I've got, I've now got, one day a week. So that's that's a certain amount of money coming every month for the next year.'cause that was my c because I went and what I was saying about the CPU is. My son's a bodybuilder, so I'm trying to lose weight at the moment. So I ask him questions about nutrition and my other son's he's a plumber in a building and really talented guy. So I go around affairs of the heart. I go speak to my wife.'cause what, it was terrible at the, in the past, James was asking every Tom, Dick and Harry's opinion. My wife would still argue I'm still the same. But, if ever wanted to buy a car, I would ask everybody's opinion. What do you think about Volkswagens and, oh, best cars in the world, or my mate, I'd one of terrible, or, and I'd get all this mis this misinformation. And I was just confused. So my CPU they're there to protect me. They're there to advise me. And and I have great fun with'em as well.

James: 6:58

Yeah. Yeah. Is it one thing I'm doing at the moment is asking my close friends, where am I not fully stepping out? Or where am where do they see me? Perhaps not being able to fully embrace my true self, them kind of questions because again, we can ask ourselves these questions, but quite often we might have a blind spot. They can see our blind spots.

7:28

Absolutely.

James: 7:29

What I wanna cover now is obviously you talk about poetry and humor, both things to do with playfulness. Yeah. And I think playfulness is so important, especially in child, children's lives, but also I think playfulness is very important in adults' lives. And so I feel sometimes we can get, overcome by all this fear. But I think playfulness is a good way to really allow ourselves to step into this fear because play it gives us, it's this really humorous or soft way of dealing with fear. Yeah. To say, for example, you might have, you might be fearful that down the road you might see somebody, yeah. You could actually have, you could have a bit of fun actually to go walking down the road and get dressed up in different outfits. Or you could go down and just be somebody, act, be somebody different. Yeah. We've got the great things to do. The question is, how can someone be playful in the moment instead of fearful?

David: 8:39

Yeah. It just,

James: 8:40

I

David: 8:41

can you remember his children stop being silly. Stop being so silly. And I'm, I urge people stop being silly. Stop being really silly. I am a really silly person and I love the word silly. And don't me wrong mate. If I've got a, if I'm talking with a CEO of a company and he wants me to come in or she wants me to come in and do, a session of workshops for, for mental health and wellbeing, obviously I'm not gonna go in with a joke nose on and crack jokes'cause that's not what they're after. But I know for that, we always say in aa for example, alcoholics Anonymous that a lot, you go into a room and people always think when they first go to an AA room, it's gonna be full of broken people. And people think they'll be there with like raincoats on with a piece of string and drinking out a bottle. You go into an area, there's people laughing and joking and winding each other up and banter. And it's brilliant because we always say, we now laugh at, we laugh at things that what we used to cry about in the past. And my mates will say and the humor's almost, it's gallows humor sometimes, but, and again, you'll know that with firefighters, you'll know that with nurses, you know that. But police officers, some of the things that you've seen, it's quite horrific in your line of work. Yeah. And I'm not saying you don't trivialize it and joke about it, but you have to add a bit of fun to that to make, and one of my greatest inspirations is working with children. Just really, and, just really silly gig. The laughter of children. I think I, I know I wanna find a quote and I'm sure it was somebody like, so Socrates or Plato or something. He always said, when do you know? He used to ask him once, how do, when you go past the classroom, how do you know there's great learning going on? He said, because I hear laughter. And that's what it is. It's about this laughter. I've got a friend a guy that's helping us with the putting the book together. A guy called Andy Cope, and he's wrote a book called The Art of Being Brilliant. You ever heard of him? Great. I've heard of

James: 10:34

Andy Cope, I think. Yes, Dr. Andy

David: 10:36

Cope. He went to Bury University and he's did, he did a PhD in happiness and he's actually officially the he is the doctor of happiness. And he talks about the two percenters, the people in life, the ones that really achieve true happiness. There's only 2% of the population, and I try every day to be a two percenter. I try to, I try and see the good of everything, try and see the happy and everything. And it is just about not taking life that serious. If you want serious flick on the news and look at the politicians and look at the, what's happening around the world. I spend most of my time on YouTube watching Family Guy Kevin Bridges remakes, like por you remember porridge and only fours and horses. Only fours and horses and, more common wise, the classics, but, just watch things that are really funny and that I need that tickle, that little funny bone tickled on a constantly. And I do, I tend to find the funny in most things. And I am a self-confessed very silly person. I, I see things, not my, we'll talk about later. I was down in new in Cornwall at 9 19 81, so I was 18, so what was that, 30, 44 years ago? Yeah, 44. I'm really old now. And I mate Keith and he said we were down in New Keith. He says. We were walking into town, he says, have you seen the size of the sparrows down here in Noki in Cornwall? I said, why? He said, they come to our sparrows, they batter them. I thought, why would sparrows be fighting? But I can imagine like a corny sparrow. I have a go at you mate. But then I thought, if sparrows, I wonder if the chirp in different accents. And but then I thought, what about worms and what about an earwigs? I thought, I wonder if insects have different accents. And that's where the that's where the ideas of me ping come from. For me, oh, spiders are Jody, look at me. I'm a Spiderman. I'm spin the web like, and tadpoles are s scouses. I tell the taal they live a bog. Worms are Scottish. I'm Willy the worm. And I like worm'cause there's lots of Scottish rollar. I'm Willy, the worm are rolling a rele. These come from Birmingham'cause they're really busy. But they talk really like that. All right. I'm a be from Birmingham and just, I'm a bit, but that's my life. And I do, I look at things and Billy Conley says, I'm not funny. I just meet the ordinary, extraordinary. And I and I do. I see things that are really funny and I love remember Victoria Wood?

James: 13:10

No.

David: 13:11

Victoria Wood, the, you, I'm older than you. They, she's Julie Walters, Victoria Wood the, she's one of the greatest comedians ever. She wrote but she was on about, she just makes things really funny. Everyday things just put a certain twist on them and, yeah I try me, I try my best to see the humor and everything. And with my poems I I give everything a character, a personality. I said about my fear. I give it a personality. I give it a person and it's like. When you go out with your mates, you go in the pub, and I can imagine most of your friends, are they quite positive people? Some of them, not all of them, yeah. We'll talk later on in the second half about drains and radiators. But you normally, if you've got a choice of a night out, you normally surround yourself with positive people, and I always, if you've got this drain in your life, oh, James, I'm having a terrible time. I don't have an, and my fears like that. Oh, I'm so scared. Oh, it's terrible. He's got this moan invoice and oh, I think we're gonna die soon. I think the god's going fail. It's OTI think you're gonna have no money, or I think the house is gonna flood or think your passport's gonna, I think you're gonna get lost on a, and that's what it says all the time. But I have to just see it as like a moaning auntie or a mo, and I. I know that I'll be back in a minute. I hear what you're saying. I'll be backing it up. I'm just gonna go and talk to James and when I come back, I'll still yell and I think I'm gonna, I think I'm gonna, you're gonna burn yourself when you make a cup of tea and it will just, it she'll just carry on and he'll carry on forever. So what I tend to do is I see life very differently. My wife loves, sometimes I'll say something like, or whatever I said the one day I said, do you think Dan, do you think daffodils are sad? And she went, where do, where's this idea come from? Or I'll we'll go along and I'll see something in cloud. I can see faces in clouds and

James: 15:01

yeah,

David: 15:02

I think, do you think cloud's are sad? Paul? She said, I don't know, David. And I just, do you think waves are happy? And, but I give everyth, I give everything a personality, but I see, I choose. And you have I choose to see the world. And I send, I've got a friend Ru, I send her all these little meme. I'm one of these pain in the bums, you make that sends you ream after me. Meme after meme. I'm one of them sadly. But yesterday there was two, there was a meme. It was on Instagram. Two little girls. They're probably three or four, and they're outside. It's the middle. It looks like it's summertime. They've got rain max up, but they've got a big bowl full of water. One's mixing the bowl, and the other one's got a teapot and they're just in a kitchen, but they're just making water and mud. And it's the middle of summer. The ones singing jingle bells at the top of a voice jingle bell jingle. But I thought, how many times have, how many times have you sang jingle Bells in the middle of the summer? You know what I mean? Or when was the last time you made it? I'm asking you, when was the last time you made a mud pie?

James: 15:59

Oh a while ago.

David: 16:01

Put stones in it to decorate it and give it to your mom. They made a mud pie for you. In most many

James: 16:06

years ago,

David: 16:07

I haven't done it for 50 years, but remember the day you made that mud pie, you got the best mud you could. You mixed it all up. You put it in, you patted it. So it was a nice shape. You put little stones around it, you put little tweaks to make it look great and you gave it to your mom. You know what I mean?

James: 16:21

Yeah.

David: 16:21

I did that for mom once. She said, Dave, you're 24. Get a job. So I again, see that's just, I try my best to make people laugh'cause you laughed and that made me feel good. Yeah, that's just very true.

James: 16:36

Wasn't there a guy? Wasn't there? There's a guy, I can't really of his name, but he was. Basically he, I think it was in the seventies and he was diagnosed with an illness bit by the doctors and they said that it couldn't be cured. Yeah. So he thought to himself he could be cured. So he went and sat. He hired, he went, I think he went, I think he initially started in hospital watching funny comedies. Yeah. As you mentioned, some of them you mentioned, and I think the hospital eventually said, you can't do that. And he went into a hotel. Yeah. And I'm sure he went back to his doctors and they looked at him and the illness that he had gone.

David: 17:19

Yeah. That was I, it was the book called The Secret. I think it's have you ever read the book called The Secret? I've, I know of The Secret. Yes. Yeah. Ronan Rona. I will get, we'll get the, we'll get the link. It's, I think it's Rona Burn or Rona but the, on, in there, there was a guy who was ill and it basically just he chose to watch, videos. I think back in the seventies it was videotapes. He was watching, but now I spend most of my time on YouTube just watching thing. I was like, if you look at my YouTube, it's you know these guys, you know these restoration. You'll get like an old battered toy, like a tin toy from the 1930s, but they'll get it and the they'll or it'll somebody making a shelter in the woods. Yeah. When again, when was the last time you made a den with your mates?

James: 18:06

Probably a while ago, but I'm sure there occasions when we've done it in the past.

David: 18:13

So maybe outdoorsy. Can you remember the last time you, when you were a kid and you made a den with your mates? And it was the best dem ever. And you'd be really creative. You'd get like wooden crates and you'd, or put a window in it and all it was just a load of twigs and a load of grass in a local field. But it was your denim. Okay? And you got a box and you pretended that was the cooker and you sat in there and you were inside a pub. But we lose all that as children. But when was the last time you put the SP sprinkler on in your garden just with your pants on and running back and forward in the sprinkler? If we did that now we'd be arrested. But the chil and it is just the innocence of children, and they're just running around carefree. And for some reason we stopped doing that. We yeah. That inner child that, that little silly boy and girl within us, we lose it.'cause we have to conform. And again, mate. If you're trying to do a presentation, you're getting paid, but you don't turn up in your pants and run through sprinklers.'cause that's, and I'm not urging that, as a, a 60-year-old man, you can't do that'cause you will be arrested. But what I'm saying is that inner child, the things that we did as children, we spend hour just spinning around, do your arms out, are you spinning around until you fell over? Oh, you being a paddling pool. And you'd be shivering. Your mom said, come out and up my James, get out. Your lips are blue. When was the last time you played in the paddling pool till your lips were blue and you couldn't? That's what we did as children. And it is just, but we lose all that as adults, isn't it? But I've, there's a part of me hasn't lost that. There's a part of me and I think because I've got little niece, great nieces and nephews now I'm the greatest builder, the den builder. And I say she would make a, she would make a wood pie for your mom. People. Oh, you are you are brilliant. Keeping the kids entertained. No, it's all about me. I wanna make a good pie. But if I've got a 5-year-old with me, it makes me look good. But it's me wants to make the, when was the last time you built something outta Lego? It's probably last

James: 20:17

year.

David: 20:18

Oh, that's good. That's good then. You know what I mean? But it's just,

James: 20:20

I've got niece and I've got nieces and nephews young, so yeah.

David: 20:24

And I'm blessed enough on a daily basis to go into schools to be really silly. And my poems are really silly. And that, and it's, and a lot of my poems, they do contain bu poo fart, oh

James: 20:37

yeah. Kids Willie is a big one. Young boys. No,

David: 20:42

I've got two boys. I've got two boys. But I've always said that you can't mention Willy or Boobies.'cause if you do, you have to go to teacher jail. That's where all the naughty teachers live. But you get away with bum pants. Knickers put, we fought. They're the north. They're the really north,

James: 20:59

yeah.

David: 21:00

The secret is my poems. I don't actually say them'cause it, and it's I've got one called a scarecrow rap and it's outstanding in my field. That's what I'm told. No need for money, no need for gold. I've got straw for hands, no fingers or a thumb. I've got a wooden pole right up my, and have kids all shout bum, but no, on my back. Why would you? You're ruining my po. But I play the mantle, the full and they love it. The pirate is scared of the sea. We scrub the decks and we play the parts. Life's so busy. There's no time to far, no, no time to rest. And I play this like mant, you're ruining my poems now. But if you look on my website, you'll see children crying that'cause for a night. Yeah, that's comedy gold. But again, some, sometimes I've been to 200 schools and they've loved it, but I know certain schools it. They have to be a bit careful you're on about the Willy Word. If you look, I think it's and I love his work, David Williams. I think it's it's chapter 13, page 133, and it is Boy with a Dress. And in there's a little ad, I think it's called Rory Malone or something, but whatever happens, he talks about, he got his Willie stuck in a test tube, which I find that hilarious. But that's on the shelves of the schools all over Britain, which is funny, but sometimes some scores I go into and I'll say, oh, you do mention Bum and Pants a little bit. And some of them I, there was one school down in London, I didn't actually get booked because they were scared I was gonna mention M and Pants, but I said, have you got the boy with a dress in you? She, yeah, I said, and it's a fantastic book and it's really funny and I'm not offended by it. But yeah, chapter 30, I think it's page 133. You can look it up, roaring Malone with his will a test tube, which I find that hilarious. But yeah, you just, you gotta be so careful. So I don't go anywhere near that, but I just it's just really wholesome. It's fun. It's just, yeah, it's just it's what kids in the playground, it's what they talk about, when the teachers are not there, they're all telling yeah. Jokes and far jokes and poo jokes and snot jokes and, that's what they're after about. Because that's the inner child within me. So that's where, and I get paid for doing it, which is even better.

James: 23:12

Yeah. It's per, it's a perfect job. It's, I think humor and laughter and all that kind of stuff, it's so in, it's so important for us because it, as you said, it just wakens up the inner child. But for somebody who's perhaps in a cycle of fear

23:28

Yeah.

James: 23:29

How can they give themselves permission to rewrite the story that they're going through?

David: 23:34

Yeah. You could, you can start any time, but again, like we said, and I was there, if you'd have said to David Anderson eight years ago when I was off work, we hang on eight years ago, 2017, November, 2017, which is eight years ago, if you'd have said to me eight years ago. I was there and just I said to me, boss, I was at work and I was struggling. He See how you doing, Dave? I says, Carl, I've gotta be honest with you. I think I'm a puncture or a speeding ticket away from a nervous breakdown. I have a, I have the slightest little thing now back in that it was the darkest place I was ever been. I didn't see any hope for the future. I really was, I've learned now that suicide ideation, I didn't contemplate suicide, but I said that, I said to Paul, we were talking one night, Paul, and I said that somebody had passed away or whatever it was, and I said, if anything happens to, if anything ever happens to me, don't worry, Paul. I said, if I went to bed one night and I didn't wake up, don't be sad because I'm done. Now you, that's a terrible thing to say to us. No, I don't wanna die, but I'm done now. I can't live with this head any longer. That's when I was, what, 50. 54 and 56 of us then and now I wanna live to, I'm 120 now. I've got that many things I need to do. I wanna learn new instruments. I want visit places. I've still got careers that I want to develop. I want to learn languages. I've got that much you need to do, so I can't be dying just yet. So when you're in that really dark place, first of all, and it's like getting the, but I always think it's like drowning. You're in you, you're just drowning this sea of negativity. What I did, and I'm not urging every first of all, ask for help. That's the first thing. If the way talk, you've got a listener out there who is absolutely in the middle of self-centered fear and anxiety. Imagine yourself, you are in the sea drowning, first of all, wave your ask for help. First of all, tread water, you and know you're gonna get saved. You can swim and this isn't gonna last forever. It's only gonna be a short time. Somebody is coming to help you and somebody will always come to help you. So that's so that, so first of all, do things. So be honest with people. Be open with people, and then wave you on that mean taking up, shooting off a flare or doing something, get noticed and somebody will come along and they might just give you a life jacket. You're still in the water, you're not gonna drown now. And that's fantastic. And for me, that was me when I went to the doctor.'cause I had a chemical imbalance. I had tablets from it. That was my particular journey. I'm not saying that everybody had, and I was absolutely. Anti antidepressants mate. Carl said to me,'cause I eventually went off work in the October, but by the march, I was really sad in March. And Carl said, why don't you go to the doctor? Said, no, I don't want tablets. I don't, no, I'm all right. I'm all right. I said, tell I'm gonna do, I wanna stop. I'm gonna stop. He's not, isn't that, I've just said that to you Carl? And the phone's just pinged and his name's come up on the screen there. Just, he's one of me. CPU I've just mentioned Carl. And he went, ping, it's a message again. That's a higher power. That's it. That's the universe. That's a signal again. So Carl, I said to Carl, I'm gonna start walking Carl. I'm gonna start walking and if I'm still bad in August. I'll go to the doctors. Neil said to me, you remember that time you were gonna walk yourself outta depression. David and I laugh about it now'cause you can't walk yourself outta depression, but you can do more exercise. So first of all, be honest and open. Go to people around you and say to people, I'm struggling. Tell your loved ones. I'm really struggling here. Go see a doctor and you might have to have antidepressants, but what that, to me, that was the life jacket. I knew that I wasn't gonna drown. And that just gave me a bit of, so I could think there, because whereas before, I was just thinking of, I'm going to live and now know that I'm not going to die, but hang on, it's cold in this water and I'm soaking. I need to get outta the water. So I need to get into the boat. So somebody's gonna come and get me into the boat. So in the boat, that could be being open and honest with your friends, going to a help group starting writing, poetry, journaling, doing mindfulness. And then eventually you're gonna try and help other people get in the boat with you, which is great. But eventually you, once the boats fall, they're gonna drop you off on the beach. But my mate David said to me once, God didn't save us from drowning just to have us die on the beach. So when you get to the beach, then you think there's people out there still saving lives. I've done my bit. I'm gonna head into the town now and I'm gonna start living my life. I'm gonna get these wet clothes off. I'm gonna get some dry clothes off. And what I might do some fundraising in the town, so to fund the people that are saving the boats. And that's that's me, that's supporting charities, like mind and different things. So the first thing I do is I was genuinely, so if you're struggling, you, if you're drowning, ask for help. Yeah. Be honest with the people around you. Visit the doctors. Speak to other people that you know that have what's their experience if need be. Have medication.'cause sometimes it's a hormone. It's, it is a chemical imbalance inside your head. And sometimes tablets are on that. Start journaling, practice mindfulness, get out in the open, walk more. And then be honest and put back. The big thing I'm at the moment Ja James is boundaries, put boundaries in place and even, I'm not saying you give up your job, but sometimes you might be doing a job that's killing you. And if you have a heart attack or you die, you're no good to your family anyway. Sometimes I was in a job, I was a deputy ed teacher. I was doing in a good way. I had a pension, and I had a great job and I carried on. I. I think I would've been dead if I'd had carried on.'cause it was just for me, it was just so stressful. And I left to do that, to do the pep, the poet. And I've earned as much as I did as a deputy ed teacher for working half the time and doing what I love. But at the moment that's, at the moment it will get better. It's just, it's gone a bit quiet at the moment. So what I've done now is I'm gonna focus on the focus on secondary schools, talking to teenagers about self-centered fear and anxiety. I'm gonna start working in a senior school, so I've just taken my di I've got another arm to my business. Yeah. And planning. But the only thing is be honest and talked to people and ask for help. And then identify your CPU. Look at the people in your life. Who are the ones that in, if you were stuck at Manchester Airport in the middle of the night, who would you ring for a lift? Who'd be the ones that'll say, I'll be there in, I'll be there in an hour, mate.

29:58

Yeah.

David: 29:59

James, what you I've got working the mornings. I can't come now, James, they're not your CPU. It was, it were the ones that, if you were poorly that and there'll only be probably about five or six in your life. And before we go can I mention drains and radiators to you?

James: 30:14

Yeah.

David: 30:14

The drains and radiator and this is helps when,'cause sometimes when you're drowning, I didn't realize it was drains that got me there. In my opinion, the whole of the world split into two categories. You are either a drain or you are a radiator. Now the drains, the drain, the lifeblood out you, the drain, the positivity out you, the drain of the drain. Every ounce of jovial joviality out of your body and they'll leave you. They sucky clean like vampires. Andy Co. Andy Coke calls'em mood Hoovers. My friend Mike calls'em time bandits, but they just, they steal your, you can't get rid of them. And the reason you can't get rid of them James.'cause people say just get rid of'em. Put'em out your life. You can't.'cause sometimes you might be married to one. I'm not. But you could be married to one. They could have given birth to you, they could have given birth to your partner, you could have given birth to them. You might work alongside with'em. One of them might be your boss. You might be the boss to one of them. One of them might be your siblings. So they're all around and you know who they are, James.'cause you say to them, like my mother always used to say that the wind's always in the face. Lemme just go quickly and that, sorry Marc, I a quick think

31:28

it's

David: 31:29

alright. And you know who are James because I say. How you doing? Oh James, I've had a terrible day today. Oh, James. Oh, this weather. I was too Ted. I don't Oh James. That call you was a bit fast. I wouldn't want to go that fast. I'm going and hurt other next. Oh, I wouldn't go there. I heard the drains but the opposite. The drains are radiators and they radiate kindness and love and prosperity and that they're brilliant people to be around. And what I did in the past, I went around and tried to fix all the drains'cause I am a radiator. My mate Alicia said to me once, Dave, you're a central heating system. But I am a, I am definitely a self-confessed radiator. I can be a drained sometimes but I'm aware of it. But'cause I'm a human being, but I choose to be a radiator. And I went round a few years ago trying to fix all the drains and in the end I fell in one and I couldn't get out. And the secret is. And this is really sad. They don't, I want, I don't want'em to be drains, I want'em to be radiators, but they're quite happy being drains.'cause that's where all their self-esteem comes from. That's where their, all the, all their interactions come from. That's all their, everything. They're self-worth is wrapped up in people feeling sorry for them. And they love being, they don't realize it, but they love being drains. So all I do is I limit my time with them. And that could be a family member or whatever. And you can't cut'em outta your life, but Right. I'm gonna go and see X who's a note. You might have a friend that you ring up how you do? Oh, I'm having a terrible time. All you have to do is limit your time with him. You say I'm gonna ring, I'm gonna ring Dave up. I'm gonna give yourself 20 minutes. And he even say to your partner, in 20 minutes time can you knock the door or can you ring or something? And yeah. Oh, that's terrible. Yeah. Works bad. Is it? Oh, the cars. Yeah. And the kids. Yeah. That's terrible. And it's just all one sided and get you. Sorry mate, that's somebody at the door I've got and but just give them 20 minutes.'cause and I always, Steve, it's not really, but what happens if they want to tell you more?'cause when you go, they'll get onto somebody else.'cause they have to, they're like vampires. They have to, they've always got ready. They've always got willing victims to go onto. So what I do is that I spend less and less time with them and I recognize them. And and I thought and I chose not to, I chose not to be with them. I'd spend me time with positive people, like-minded people that make me happy, that make me smile and that and that's what I do. When sometimes, like I said, when of you going back to original questions, if one of your listeners are drowning, it's because probably they've spent that much time with drains. And if you imagine you are in the sea and you've got, remember those old fast, those cast iron Victorian drains? Oh, like a replica one Here it is like a. They've got two or three of them around the neck and they're pulling them down. It's just, cut'em off and just let'em sink. But you've got to'cause it. Self preservation is the name of the game.

James: 34:19

Yeah, definitely. That's their very powerful picture you can put into people's minds of that with the drain, the radiator. Just to clarify that, we've obviously, throughout this, I think it's an hour and a half, 90 minutes, we've talked about childhood healing. We've talked about self-centered fear, humor, imposter syndrome. We've looked at signs and symptoms of self-centered fear. We've also looked at being silly and having fun and humor, that kind of thing. And you mentioned about the idea of, so if you are sucking self-centered fear, how you can overcome it by using that lifeboat

35:00

Yeah.

James: 35:00

Idea. Can you finish off by telling us. What is it that you do and how can people get in contact?

David: 35:08

Fantastic. The strength in my, but the main thing that I do, Yeah I thing is that I also performance poet and wellbeing champion. So my work split into two. What I, I love doing and I always think if you love it, if you were a millionaire, I won the lottery, would I still do this? And I think I would, I'd still carry on doing this. I'd, yeah, probably not four days. I'd do mornings, but I'd still do it. So the first thing I is, I'm a poet. I'm I've written five poetry collections and I go into primary schools and I deliver whole school poetry days, which I love. And it's silly and it's funny and it's wiggle your bum and it's send a peer and it's just, you are smiling now you, you're smiling now and it's just really silly. So if you go into my website, pep, the poet co uk. It's all on there. You can follow me on Instagram and TikTok, which is at pep, the poet. And I put lots of poems on there and really silly, the very silly poems. So that's the one side of me there that I love, but the one I'm really passionate about,'cause that I love that one and the children get a lot out of it, but it's very self-indulgent for me. I just love performing, I love being silly, but what I'm getting a lot of what fulfills me as well is helping people that, like you said before, eight years ago, I was in a really dark place and today I am not. I live a beautiful life. So obviously my other side of my string of my about is I'm a wellbeing mentor. I give keynote talks talking about self-centered fear and anxiety. And it's about helping people become the more, the better version self they can. So for businesses, if you've got a workforce, you want to be more productive. Lot members of staff been on long-term sick retention of staff because they're leaving'cause they're sad. I can go in there, give my message, and I do genuinely ch cheer people up. And I give them tools and strategies of how they can become a vet, the best person that, the best version of their self. That can be the way I describe myself is I'm not a doctor. I'm more of a chemist. You know when you go on holiday and you might get a bit of a rush from the sea or whatever, you don't go to the doctor, you go to the chemist and you're broken English. You tell them and they give you some cream and it heals it up. I feel like the chemist, if it's something really deep rooted, you might have to go to specialists, you go to the doctors or this. But if you are suffering from low self-centered fear and anxiety, I can give you strategies. I go to secondary schools and like I said, I talk about fear fear and anxiety, that imposter syndrome, that low self-worth. That fear of needing to fit in, children with behavior problems, vaping, just that peer pressure being the authentic you is just wonderful.'cause you can only be yourself. Yeah. Only I think it was Oscar Wallace. It'd only be yourself'cause everyone else is taken. And that, so I go in and I talk about being the authentic you. I talk about reintegrating the people of people that are missing out in school. Those that are disengaged, I help'em become reengaged. I talk about transitions from secondary school to primary school to secondary school, or from secondary school to sixth form. And and I talk about exam pressure. That I'm that, that many young people, they just tell themselves they're gonna fail their exams. You have to put place in, first of all, is it real? Is it happening today? What can you do beforehand? And I give them strategy. So I'm a poet by day. And then me grownup talk about self-centered fear and anxiety. And again, that's that website, two different websites. That one's David anderson.co uk? No it's not. It's David Anderson uk. So the poetry is pep, the poet.co uk. The talking that I do with adults, businesses, colleges, universities is David Anderson uk and I have got an Instagram, but I think it's Mr. Under David Anderson underscore. Lots of underscores. But that was the nearest I could get to David.

James: 39:05

Yeah.

David: 39:05

It's missed up on David Anderson underscore,

James: 39:09

I'll get all the links off you and I'll put, we'll put it in the show notes and it'll be all accessible via that. Thank you very much, David.

David: 39:17

I've had a lovely, absolutely, and I'll tell you what you just said. We've talked about this imposter syndrome and I thought all it's been is a couple of mates having a cup of tea and a chat and we've covered so much excuse this

James: 39:28

deb de and a 90 minute talk. So thank you.

David: 39:32

God bless you mate. Thank you very much. Thank you.

39:36

Thanks for tuning in to Man a Quest. Find meaning if today's conversation sparked something in you, take a moment to reflect, then take a step. Remember, real growth comes from action, not just insight. If you found value in this episode, share it with a friend. Leave her a review, or reach out and let me know what resonated. Your feedback helps shape the journey we are on together. For more conversations like this, make sure to subscribe and stay connected. You can also follow me on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn for updates, tools, and upcoming guests. Remember. It's not about having the answers. It's about daring to look.