Boundaries, Ownership, and Growth: The Secrets to Healthy Relationships | Jack Longbottom - Part 2

In this powerful conversation, relationship coach Jack Longbottom joins James to explore the real meaning of boundaries, the courage it takes to own your part in a relationship, and why “the work” is simply the part of you that keeps trying.

Jack opens up about his upbringing in a family affected by addiction, the suppression of his sensitivity as a child, and the life-changing experience of his first men’s retreat. He shares how those moments shaped his commitment to helping others and how his partner Erica has been pivotal in his personal growth.

Together, they unpack the difference between fear-based and love-based boundaries, revealing why most people misunderstand them and how to create boundaries that actually stick. Jack explains the nuances between rigid, porous, and loving boundaries — and why the most effective ones start with what you will do, not what the other person must do.

The conversation also dives deep into ownership — reframing it as authorship. Jack highlights the power of asking: “Given everything that’s happened, what do I want to do next?” From failed relationships to daily conflict, they explore how self-awareness, curiosity, and small consistent actions can transform connection.

You’ll also hear stories about:

• How commitment is a daily choice, not a one-time promise
• Why conflict is co-created and how to shift from blame to repair
• The importance of agreements alongside boundaries
• The trap of “stopping trying” in long-term relationships

This episode is a heartfelt guide to building relationships rooted in respect, care, and resilience — with practical tools you can start using today.

About Jack:

Jack is a qualified relationship coach who helps couples using a blend of practical tools, emotional insight and a hardline of removing restricting/untrue beliefs to support lasting change. Jack believes that much of our relational behaviour is shaped by the baggage we carry — often unconsciously — from past experiences. By helping clients understand how their nervous system responses & relational strategies impact connection, safety, and reactivity; He empowers them to build more consciously connected and authetic relationships through both individual ownership and collaboration with others.

Transcript

0:01

In today's episode, we talk about Jack's lessons from past relationships. We look at boundaries, including fear-based and love-based boundaries, and how to create boundaries that stick in lasting relationships. Welcome to Man: A Quest to Find Meaning, where we help men navigate modern life, find their true purpose, and redefine manhood. I'm your host, James, and each week, inspiring guests share their journeys of overcoming fear Embracing vulnerability and finding success. From experts to everyday heroes. Get practical advice and powerful insights. Struggling with career, relationships or personal growth? We've got you covered. Join us on Man Quest to Find Meaning. Now, let's dive in.

James: 0:54

Can you tell us your story?

Jack: 0:56

Yeah. Where it's like hard born where to begin. Okay. So yeah, as I mentioned, my dad was, my dad growing up was alcoholic. In fact, I forgot a big history of substance abuse throughout the family. That was completely, I was completely unaware until I like went counseling for the first time, which was just after COVID, which I had like my biggest dip That was on my, one of my lowest points just after COVID and pointed out that, in fact, essentially my entire family deals with their problems through substances, mostly alcohol. Mine was weed, there was alcohol, but my, yeah, I've had multiple family members die from the ramifications of being alcoholics. And so yes, my dad dealing with his own trauma never had the opportunity to, was like super tyrannical and just a bit of a broken man growing up and. That led me into big people plea. I was super sensitive, emotional growing up, as I later realized my father was as he was a child, but his dad fucked it messed him up. And anyway, that's how it bleeds down. And he really did try his best. Anyway. This isn't becoming about my dad's about me. It took me, what I'm trying to say is it took me a long time to reconnect with my sensitivity after having it very much squashed in my formative years. And then it was around, no, it was a maybe a year or two before COVID. I went at my first men's retreat, which blew my mind. I had never experienced anything like that before. Being like 30 guys of all walks of life, everything I could imagine dealing, coming to deal with all walks of obstacle. Whether that be relationships or self-exploration or drugs or what, whatever. I could imagine. And then just this air of doing the work, like we are there to do the work, but zero expectation of how you show up. You could be 100% authentic and you'll be welcomed in. You wanna do the workshop? Do the workshop, don't wanna do the workshop, don't do the workshop. By turning up. We've all made our commitment here to try and do the work, but if it's really too intense for you, that's fine. And everyone did all the workshops and no one ever backed out of anything. And I got to the end of that week and we're in our closing circle and we're all making our commitments to, what's the next step? What's our accountability step? And it was in that moment that I just I. Need to work with people. I have to work with people. This has just blown I've never felt so fulfilled in my entire life and I wasn't even facilitating hosting anything. I was just there as a as a member of the participants. But just having connected with the other brothers and just seeing the power it had on them and feeling the power it had on me, I was like, wow, okay. This is definitely something that I'm gonna pursue. I dunno, didn't know what it looked like then. And this many years later, maybe six years on I'm, I really only feel like now that I'm have started fulfilling that, that promise to myself then, but, these things take time and it's been a wonderful journey. And I would say also, apart from the individual men's work, my partner Erica, has just been pivotal in. In my ability to explore. One thing that has become very apparent to me over the last years, last however many years as I've been training and helping people is I'm only able to help others as much as I'm able to help myself. And it's been such a real motivator, and it's so true. If I'm in denial about X, Y, or Z, how on earth am I gonna go help someone else who's in denial of X, Y, and Z? How on earth am I gonna speak from a place of authenticity to help that person move through this particular obstacle? So yeah. And again, that bleeds back into the relationship part of it. Erica has been just there aren't enough nice, powerful words to describe how lucky I feel in one sense, almost. Now, maybe that's a part of, it's still a part of my worthiness that I need to work on. It's like I almost feel like this is luck, like it's been given to me from the universe or whatever, but I've put in plenty of effort to make this work and to work on myself. So it isn't all given, it's never all given. Nothing is given. But I would say those two things are like the main factors of how I, or three things, my upbringing, finding men's work and finding a relationship that's really motivating me to improve myself yeah. How I found myself

James: 5:59

here

Jack: 6:00

right now. Talking to you. Yeah.

James: 6:04

There we are. So you mentioned a couple of things, and then earlier on you mentioned about commitment. I remember after my first breakup. First major breakup, which led me onto the path I believe the path, the journey, whatever you wanna call it. The fur, the main thing that I did after that was to commit to never being in that same place of my lowest point ever again. And I feel such a commitment is such a strong word.'cause we have this idea of we have to commit to doing some things, though. We have to commit to a job. We have to commit to making, paying off our house to commit to having looking after kids, that kind of stuff. But there's something deeper with the word commitment. And I think with regards to commitment, there's a level of you, you've said a few times ownership, and I think you were mentioning about. You don't, in order to do, in order to progress, you've got to be at a level, a place of taking ownership of yourself, which is such a key thing. And so what is what is your definition? And take ownership.

Jack: 7:20

Okay. I'm actually gonna, I'm gonna steal, I'm gonna steal, have you heard of a guy called Jason Gaddis?

James: 7:27

No.

Jack: 7:28

He's a wonderful relationship coach and psychotherapist, a mentor, and I actually did two years of training under him. And I love, I, I now associate the word ownership with the word authorship. He has, he's talking, reference is, he talks about victimhood and authorship. But it is all, it's all in one. And I feel like we really have to trust. That we are in control. We do have a choice going forward. And there are events which we are victim of. So it's like someone cheats on us, someone hits us, someone, those truly like bad things, which we are victims of. It's hard to take ownership over the those bad events where we are true victims. But the author side of that, the ownership, the authorship of that is, okay, I find myself in this situation. What do I want to do next? And that for me, like that one question is ownership. It is authorship. It's here are all the things that I've experienced. Here are all the impacts I have. Here's what I'm carrying. The good and the bad. Dunno those words, the comfortable and the uncomfortable. What do I wanna do next? And that's as simple as it is for me in ownership as a statement piece. What do I want to do next? Do I need to turn around and make amends for maybe some of the things in the past? Is that holding me back? Do I have these thoughts going, I really wish I hadn't done this, really wish I hadn't done that. Or whatever. If it, if is it something in the future? I never want to experience a relationship like that again. I never want to be abused like this again. I never wanna be used like that again. I want to create this. So it's like this ownership is really realizing that we have the power to build our future. And I always try and wanna, I wanna avoid being super cliche when I say that. It's not oh, anything is possible. Every, the world is yours. But it's like on some level. Yeah, actually anything is possible. You don't want to, you don't wanna have bad relationships anymore. You can make that happen. You want to be more financially comfortable. You can make that happen. You want to live in a different country. You can make that happen. You wanna make amends. You can make that happen to a point. It depends what your idea of making amends is. If your idea of making amends is this person has to forgive me, then you that's something you don't control. You don't control other people. But you can. But you can go and admit to the impact of your actions and then leave it in their hands. And if they wanna forgive you, they can forgive you or so on and so forth. So I think, yeah, as simple as it is, ownership is about choice and reintroducing choice and it's the react re respond thing we were talking about earlier, reaction. There's no ownership in reaction. You can own that. You've had a reaction, but react is like victim, victims react, oh, this thing's happening to me. Bam, I'm gonna react this way. And authors respond. It's oh, this, I'm receiving this thing.

James: 10:47

How do

Jack: 10:48

I want to respond to this? And also, both are, again, I wanna say both are fine. We will all feel victims of things sometimes, even if we're, even if at a later date when we really think about it. It's oh, actually I did have a part to play in that here. This is a ridiculous example, but this is the one that, that Jason used to say, and I always used to love this because it's a completely out there example, but it really illustrates the point. It's let's say one of your car gets stolen. How do you take ownership over your car being stolen? It's not your fault. Someone else has come into your life and done this really horrible thing. And he was just like I could have got a steering lock for the wheel. Actually, I got two cars. Probably didn't actually need a second car. I probably didn't actually have to have it, could I next time buy a car that has a better security system? Could I put a tracker in my next car? So if it did get stolen, I would know where it is. It's instead of just sitting there being like, I'm the victim of a crime, it's been like, okay, retrospectively could have made these decisions. And even if that wouldn't have helped in the future, I can make this dec these decisions to make sure it never happens again. So there's the ownership piece. It's not oh, I hope no one ever steals my car again. Oh, I feel so bad because I didn't deserve this. It's what can I do in the future? And it is like very hyperbole that. Example, but it example, I love it.'cause I do think it illustrates just choice, just reintroducing choice. And I love that. And it's not always fun. Sometimes it really isn't fun, but it's so important.

James: 12:26

Yeah. Let's do another example. Let's use the example of my first relationship gone wrong. I could blame that person and just completely blamed her for everything. But if I was to take ownership, there was part of me that had patterns, which led me to be what they call a Mr. Nice guy. So the not accepting conflict, the idea of my own patterns from childhood. Perhaps I wasn't in a place ready for them yet. I wa I wasn't in ready for them. I could have taken ownership with regards to how I treated it at times, I could say ownership of, yeah just the way I act and not accepting, sometimes I wouldn't take responsibility. And they're all key things. And if you look, you mentioning earlier about pe people who are in the relationships. They go from one bad relationship to another, bad relationship to another. And they ask the question, why am I always attracting this kind of person, whether it's male or female? And it's because you, I believe they've got subconscious patterns and as you said, if they feel safe in them, relationships not being, you said you not, may not be good for'em, but they feel safe. And so it's about. Identifying those patterns and changing them patterns, because I think you can you probably, I think to a certain degree you can live a fairytale life if you want, but you've gotta do the work. And that's the key thing. Work. Not as in it's always like business work or work you hate. It's that growth.

Jack: 14:15

Yeah. You've gotta value it. And honestly, like that used to, that exact thought actually used to really put me off. And is this just always gonna be work? Is this always what it's gonna be now? Just constant self-reflection, finding out these things about myself that I really don't like. And I do think it plateaus off after a while. I genuinely that there's always gonna be new challenges, but I do feel like after you get over that initial hump of. Finding the shame, loving the shame, loving you. I do think things become easier and it and say it doesn't feel like a, it used to feel like a chore to me. It really did. And that kept me stationary for a long time because it felt like such a chore and I would've so much shame come up through the work. But oh, it is so sitting in where I am now, it's so worth it. And I'm not perfect, don't want to be not cured because I'm not ill, I'm not fixed because I'm not broken. All of those things. And those are like the limiting beliefs I have before. I need to be fixed. I need to be cured. I need to be this, I need to be that. And it's no, that's, I'm completely missing the point of doing the work in the first place. And a funny as well. I love what you were saying about the end of your last relationship and actually had the same thing. And I actually feel like ends of relationships are places where people really struggle to take ownership over their part. And really, and I think that's why so many men, people, men as well, are completely blindsided sometimes by a relationship ending. They're just like, this was me. Okay. My relationship before Erica, at some point, we were together about six years, and at some point she made me promise her that we would be together forever. I promised me we'll be together forever. And I was like, yeah, I'm in. We're gonna be together forever. And when we broke up, I was furious about that. I remembered that oath. I remembered that vow. I'd never said that to anyone in my entire life. And I was, I felt so betrayed and I blamed her. It was her fault. She promised, she made me promise, why are we not doing this? And then as I started reflecting, and this wasn't immediately, it took me long time. Probably a big pivotal point for me actually in my personal growth. I actually realized that from the moment I made that promise that I'll love you forever. I stopped trying. I stopped putting the effort in. I stopped showing up the same way I had been, because in my mind, the end had already been written. And it didn't matter what I did at that point. Didn't matter how unloved she felt, how unheard she felt, how unappreciated or undervalued I could be as. Emotionally abusive. And I don't mean I was shouting her or anything like that. I was just checked out. That was my, I just wasn't just like she was in a relationship with no one. And and those are the lessons that I, I really carry now, every day is a new day with Erica, and every day could be a breakup or it could be another fantastic day in our relationship. But there's none of this. I promise you today that I'm gonna be this way forever. I promise you today that I can show up how I am in this moment forever. They're just that unrealistic and not ex not my version of expressions of love, which to me is a daily choice. So yeah, you can learn. You can, if you are willing to take ownership, you can learn so much. We can learn so much about ourselves at the end of, especially end of romantic relationships. But I think a big pitfall or a big trap is people just, they turn to blame and, it pains me a bit actually, when I see people really forget, especially after long lasting relationships, really forget the beauty of it, why they were together, and just turn into, oh, they're a jerk, or, or they're a waste of space. Or, what the, whatever platitude we come up afterwards, which is just meant to keep it at arm's length. And yeah, it's a shame, but we're never taught. We're not, when, where are we supposed to get the lesson that says, okay, we do have a thing that says, oh, learn from your mistakes. And, oh nothing ever worth having was easy. And, we have all these cliched sentences, but we never, oh, I was never, and I think a lot of people don't get that sitting down at some point in their life and being like, there's something to learn from all of this, and it's your responsibility to try and learn from your experiences. Yeah. I dunno. Need to put up a big on billboards somewhere, plaster it everywhere. Public service announcement

James: 19:11

you mentioned. Stop trying. That's a big one. I think I can, I, you know what I'm gonna say ownership right this moment, and I'm gonna say that perhaps the first two, three months of the relationship you try. I tried and tried to keep, to keep doing stuff, but then eventually I stopped trying, but then stopped trying for me was I reverted back to my old patterns. I reverted back to taking, making, going the easy route. No, I think the key thing, and this is, this, is this is where the work, this is where the work is the part of us which keeps trying, the part of us that steps in and okay. Perhaps takes a step back of an argument, sees their own patterns, sees their shadows, not in just themselves, in their partner, in their family, in the people around them. It could be the idea that they might go and stick, might read things like authentic relating or go and do men's work. That's where the trying is, that's where the growing is, and that's what I fully believe we need to put out into the world is that idea of doing, I hate your word, you're doing the work because it's the idea of growing, that's where the growing happens. Yeah. So let's just quickly go on to That's okay. You we'll go on to boundaries.

Jack: 20:45

Yeah, let's do it. I do just wanna hire, you just said one of the most amazing things I think I've ever heard, which I've just written down. And I'm gonna say to people, you said the work, it's the part of you that keeps trying. And I love that so much because it's like, for so long I was asking myself, what is the work like? What is the work? And like I said, I went through a long period of oh, the work is fixing myself. The work is not being broken anymore. The work is this, the work is that. And actually, I think that is one of the most perfect ways of expressing the work. It's just the part of you that keeps trying. Yeah. And I love that. And that's enough. A lot of people don't think that's enough. And it is, it's, that's so much just to begin with. I love that. Thank you for saying that. I'm genuinely It's a pleasure. Put that one in my pocket.

James: 21:31

I give you permiss. I do. Yeah, so boundaries. Oh, what a topic to, but yeah. So confusing. Because I believe as human beings, we don't even know what boundaries are. We know, okay, we see we know what a boundary is. A boundary is like a hedge around the field. Or you've got a boundary around your house, as an example. But what is a human boundary?

Jack: 22:02

It's difficult, isn't it? I think what I have a very bad habit of going first to what things are. When people are like, what is this? I'm like I'll tell you what it's not, which doesn't really answer the question. However, the one thing I always start with. And again, this is in terms of relationships, but I suppose works everything. It's like a boundary is something that I do not, something that you do. And I think that's a super important definition for me. A boundary isn't, Hey James, you'll never raise your voice at me. That's not a boundary. I can't tell you that a boundary is, Hey James, the next time you raise your voice at me, I'm gonna pause to conversation and we are gonna take I'm going to take 10 minutes, take a breath, and then come back to the conversation. And I feel like the difficult thing about a boundary is to hold what is that solid line, to that solid line that the example I just gave is, I'm gonna walk away, you shout at me, I'm gonna take 10 minutes and then I'm gonna come back and try again. It's not, you are not going to shout at me. And I think that. That's very hard to come to because it's also hard to then go too far with a boundary, let's say, because where in that is, is my care for you, James, where let's say we're in a relationship. Ideally, I want you to have the freedom to be able to raise your voice. I want you it may not be conducive towards collaborating, but I think you are owed the freedom to be able to be triggered. And if that means that when you're triggered, you raise your voice, I can't deny you that experience. You can commit to working on it if you see that it doesn't feed into our relationship. But I, it's not, it's a bit harsh for me to say. If you read your voice even for a second, I'm out. I suppose it leads into the definition of so there's. Two types of boundaries. There's fear-based boundaries and there's loving boundaries. Fear-based boundaries tend to be one of two things, either impermeable or permeable. So the impermeable ones are like super rigid. They don't take into account any context, and they're meant to keep us safe, like super safe. For instance, in the example I just gave, let's say I'm gonna take it a step further. I'm gonna say, if you ever shout at me, I'm gonna break up with you. Okay. Rigid boundary, because I've had some really traumatic experience or whatever in the past from someone who shouted a lot, and it ended horribly, and I stayed way too long. So I've taught myself I'm never gonna experience that again. I'm afraid of it. I won't do it. Fear-based, rigid, you've raised your voice even once. That's it. I'm out the door. Even though we probably had a chance to make our relationship work. The other fear-based one is the porous, the permeable boundary, which is when I will sacrifice. That's that's less of the fear of like conflict and fear of like punishment or something bad happening. And the porous ones are fear of loss of connection, which basically means, I've said it to you, James, every time you shout at me, I'm gonna take 10 minutes or whatever. And I never do that. Or, Hey James, I don't like it. I don't like to. The first thing you do when you get home from work is have three beers. I, I am, I'm going to leave if you don't cut down on your drinking. And then months, past, years past, and I never do anything about it, I say that it's a boundary, but it's not because actually the fear of losing my connection with you is greater than serving myself.

James: 25:59

Okay. So just to clear that up. Yeah. The fear based boundaries, you got the rigid ones. The ones where say you raise, if you raise your voice or you go and do this certain thing that I don't I'm gonna leave. Yeah. And then the fear based one the other one, the one where Perper is basically, they have a boundary, which is based on fear. They never stick to it. Yeah. For example, let's use another example. I don't like the way, I don't like the way you always go over and hug that woman over there. And I don't like it. I want you to stop. Yeah. And then he keeps doing it and she ignores it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Got you.

Jack: 26:46

I think Okay. A better way of describing. Describing the two splits is one is fear of losing yourself and one is fear of losing the other. So they're both

James: 26:56

okay.

Jack: 26:57

So it's if I put up with your behavior, I'm gonna lose myself, so get the fuck away from me. Or if I don't put up with your behavior, I'm gonna lose you. And depending on what relational traumas we've come from, one is probably gonna be more important than the other for us. So then you would hopefully set your boundaries. And like the third way I say third way, fear or love, those are the two, but fear is separated into those two. And a loving one takes context into the picture. They are caring for both you and me. And it's only maybe even a slight tweak onto, the shouting one. It's yeah. In fact if I could, oh, I wish I could rewind. Now, let's say the rigid one was you shout and I leave the relationship. Okay, so it's just straight off end of nothing's happening. There's no space for context or anything like that. A more loving version of that would be the, when you shout, I'm gonna take 10 minutes. I'm gonna take 10 minutes because I need to calm myself down. I would also like you to have 10 minutes to take a breath also, or you do what you want, wherever it is. But my aim and my hope from holding this boundary in place is that we can come back into a space and collaborate again without denying you your experience. And not denying me my experience, your experience being you're triggered, and my experience being that I'm also triggered a bit in a different way. Maybe I'm feeling you're feeling anger, I'm feeling fear. What? Whatever isn't quite jiving. To bring us back into that space of collaboration.

James: 28:27

Okay. Okay. So going back to that, from looking at from the outside and how you described it, the fear-based ones are perhaps the person who has the fear-based ones don't see themselves as perhaps don't see them their own worth. And they don't feel good enough, whereas the loved ones are based on their own self-worth.

Jack: 28:51

Yeah. Yeah. I would say the poorest fear based ones, definitely a lack of self-worth, I think a rigid one. I, because you are protecting yourself in a big way, by walking away from situations that are a hard No. And I think it's, it is important to have those very strong. Boundaries in place. There is, there are things that none of us should put up with when we talk about levels of abuse, emotional or physical danger, lack of safety, those genuinely harmful things. We, I, and I think we all on some level do have boundaries around that. I'm really talking about in, we're not talking about, we're talking about relationships that actually have a chance to go somewhere. Not, I'm not talking about, for instance, if you are in a relationship which has a problem with domestic violence, I don't think any amount of loving boundary is gonna help you through that. Okay. If your partner is hitting you, there's no real recourse for that in the ways of. Of, oh, me taking 10 minutes is gonna help you get through this awful thing. Yeah. So we are talking in terms of a scope of a reasonable amount of conflict. What is reasonable for people to be impacted and have and experience in a relationship. Yeah so self-worth does come massively into it, I think. Yeah, the poorest ones definitely you feel unworthy'cause you're not worthy, you're not feeding yourself enough worth to hold it. The rigid ones are, I would say, you're holding yourself in worth. But you're also not brave enough to keep yourself in a situation. And, and I don't mean that as an insult, but it's too intense and too scary for you to re-experience a situation and try and do it in a different way. And we're just talking about conflict, like even if it's just a trigger that comes up and that's the nervous system coming back into it. Like nervous system goes, Hey danger, get out or whatever it is. And that feeling is so intense for you that it's I'm just gonna close the door on that. So the loving ones, again, always end with something that I am going to do, not you are going to do. If it's something for both of us to do, then it's an agreement, not a boundary, yeah. We agree. When we have a conflict, we are gonna, we will have resolved it within 48 hours. There's an agreement that a couple can make that both are taking a step forward. I'm setting a boundary that when we have a conflict it's exact, I'm gonna stick with the same one. When we have, when we are triggered and it gets to the point of shouting and n things aren't going anywhere, I'm gonna be the one who just says, no, I'm taking a break. I'm,

James: 31:56

stop

Jack: 31:56

in here. Yeah. Does that make sense? I feel like I, I'm probably, I'm met that a bit messy.

James: 32:02

It, it has made starting to make sense, but I think boundaries is, are a messy subject. Yeah. Because we don't understand them. So how do you, for people out there who are listening, how can they start to create their own boundaries? So for somebody who's got no boundaries, how do we start to create them?

Jack: 32:22

Again, I think it always starts with a, with a conversation. I think once you've started the journey, the path, whatever, once you've started to just get real about what it is you want from your relationship, what your obstacles are as an individual coming into a relationship, what you are gonna struggle with, what they're going to, and then you are understanding your partner and what they struggle with and all of that beautiful, honest, expansive conversation, then you can start setting realistic boundaries. Just picking and choosing without having any real idea about how you receive the impact of the world isn't gonna form a boundary that serves anything more than the strategies you have in place currently. So if you are if you are unaware that your conflict avoidant. The boundaries you put in place are going to feed your conflict avoidance. If you are someone who loves to fly off the handle, then well, I say loves to, who reacts in a way where posturing up getting more aggressive than what's in front of them has served them well in the past and kept them safe after the fact or removed the danger from their environment. It's what I should say. Then your boundaries are gonna feed into that. So I think before you even set any boundary, you really have to understand relationally what you're bringing into the space, what your obstacles are gonna be. Because like I said, the loving boundaries have care included in them. So let's say. Let's say, James, that I know that you struggle to tap into your emotions. You struggle to really articulate yourself when it comes to like deep conversation. It wouldn't be very kind of me to put a boundary in place, which is do you know what the next time you're silent, next time you gimme the silent treatment? Not in a cruel way, but because I'm asking you questions and you don't know the answers. I'm not gonna put up with it anymore. I'm just gonna leave. I'm gonna go spend a couple days at my mom's house.'cause I'm just so sick of the silence. There's no li like, yes, I'm standing up for my value in wanting to have a more communicative relationship with you, but it's not loving in a way that actually allows you to step into okay. And practice talking deeper into it. So it's nuanced in a way. If you are setting boundaries that are supposed to work for two of you, it's like, where's the give and take? Obviously you are gonna have my value. Again, it comes down to values. My value in that boundary I just tried to set is I want to be able to talk to you on an emotional level. That's why I want to expand that. So then create a loving boundary around that, which honors me also gives you a bit of leeway to f to do the thing that I'm asking you to do.'cause that's the other thing about it is that we all think that we're so deserving of being treated exactly how we want to be treated. And we are, however, expecting someone else who's coming with decades of their own life experience to just overnight be able to fit into our cookie cutter mold of what makes us feel good is so unrealistic. Just like we are not gonna be able to do it for that other person. Straight away. So really? Yeah. Exploring what it is that honors both parties. So I would say like boundaries are hard. So if you're looking to set boundaries, you're looking to find out what they are, then you need to find out what you value. You need to find out what your obstacles are. And you need to know what your partner's values and what their obstacles are. If you really wanna make a boundary that's gonna last. And then also be willing to review, come back to it. How long am I, do I need to hold this boundary for, not all of them are gonna be permanent. Maybe some only work because of the environment you're in. You, I don't know, move to a new city for six months, you're not gonna be there permanently. They may be things that you. Have to put in there that won't work the next place you move what, whatever they may be. So actually being able to also surrender to the fact that these aren't aren't permanent. They last as long as you want them to last. And be willing to review, be willing to own when you don't hold your own boundary.'cause that's the thing. If someone else steps over your boundary ball's in your court, this is why a boundary isn't something that you do. It's something that I do. Oh, James has rose's voice. Am I going to do the thing that I said that I'm going to do in this moment? Can I make that, can I make that decision? Is it scary? So

James: 37:19

It's something I set that you do.

Jack: 37:23

No, it is something that I set, that I do. There is obviously impact in there, but a boundary. I can't tell you how to be. I can tell you how to show up to get the best out of me. Rj, it really helps when you use a soft tone. And I like it when we go slow and we take breaths together through our conversation. That actually really helps me stay centered and get through this difficult conversation. But I can't tell you, you will do this, you will do that. You will do the other. It's unrealistic. It's so James, I love the slow pace and the breaths and things and to serve myself if things get heated and you end up raising your voice. I am gonna take 10 minutes'cause I need that for my own goal. Ah,

James: 38:07

okay. So it's something I set. I do. They set. They do. Yes. And you are finding a nice balance in the middle. Yes. To obviously not trance all over each of his boundaries. Yes.

Jack: 38:24

And that's where the agreements come in. So that's so the thing, so when you start exchanging the responsibilities is like that's an agreement. So it's okay. And agreements can be more challenging and I always recommend doing really ex, same with boundaries, small and accessible. It's the micro, it's the micro decisions that lead into the macro decisions, which is why I don't like boundaries. Oh, if we have another argument by the end of this month I'm gonna leave. It's whoa, that is a huge step to make over what is one, you're just talking about one natural conflict in the next month and you're gonna make this huge, massive decision. So I know, let's keep it to keep it realistic. Small things, which is why I love the 10 minute break things or whatever works, but an agreement, let's say our agreement around that could be. If I say, if the worst should happen, if you should raise your voice, James and I have to take 10 minutes. Can we both agree that the first thing that we are going to talk about when we come back is what just happened? We're not going to jump straight back into the conversation. The first thing we both agree to do after we come back for that 10 minutes is talk about what caused that disconnection. Yeah. And really understand each other's realities. So for me, it'd be like, okay, yeah, I got really stressed. I could feel myself sweating and my hands shaking when you raised your voice. And I needed a break when you said this thing and yours could be, I don't know. I felt really criticized when you made that comment. And and yeah, I, that's why I. Raise my voice slightly. Or you could be like, I don't feel like I've raised my voice. This is what happened for me. But again, it's not about back earlier in the show, that conversation is about being right or wrong. Anyway, we're getting into other things now. There's an agreement there is, we both agree that's gonna be the first thing that we talk about when we come back into reconnection. I don't okay. I don't need your help leaving the conversation. That's my boundary. But can we both do this thing when we come back? Yeah. Yes or no, and and there are loads I love I like agreements and, but again, they have to be held in the same sort of messiness as boundaries. It's okay, let's say that we both fail at an agreement. We've come back into connection and the first thing that we did was not. That conversation about what's just happened. Okay, we failed our agreement. Both parties failed the agreement. The next important step at whatever point it is, and this is where boundaries and agreements sometimes fall apart, or people find them a struggle to hold them. Is that the temptation there would be, okay, we made that agreement the first time the opportunity came to practice. It happened. We both failed, so we're never gonna talk about that again. That agreement can just get lost in the past. And, we both tried it once and it didn't work. The thing about boundaries and agreements that make them so powerful is the willingness to review. Come back, discuss, is it working? Did it work? Did it not work? What worked, what didn't? Do we need to change it? Is this working for us now? Cool. Let's continue along this path. So I think actually the willingness to touch base again and again around agreements and around boundaries is probably what helps them stick the longest. Recognizing the value behind them. Is it fear-based? Is it love-based? Committing to something that's accessible and easy, waiting for a time to practice it and then even if it goes well or goes wrong or goes somewhere in the middle, agreeing to come back into conversation around that again.

James: 42:31

Okay.

Jack: 42:32

Because you can either, because it's just as important to address something that didn't work, as it is to celebrate something that did.

James: 42:42

Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Thank you very much, Jack, for those people who wanna get in contact What your detail, how can they get in contact?

Jack: 42:53

Yeah. Jack Long bottom, relationship coach.com is my website or info at Jack Long bottom. Relationship coach.com is my email address. I don't have any social media at the moment. I'm trying to rekindle my relationship with social media in a positive way. That's gonna take some boundaries. Yeah,

James: 43:15

definitely.

Jack: 43:16

Yeah. So yeah, at the moment it's just just my website. But yeah, I also do I'm actually, oh, when, I dunno when this podcast is gonna come out, but on the 18th of this month, I'll be down at Glasbury, a festival called Love Jam, doing a workshop on conflict and repair. And that's actually the most immediate thing I've got planned in the future. Okay.

James: 43:38

It'll probably come out after that. Oh.

Jack: 43:41

But

James: 43:41

I can put a thing out anyway on, so onto my socials. Oh. If you send me, if you send me the details.

Jack: 43:47

Oh, that'd be amazing. Thank you so much.

James: 43:49

Yeah. Thank you very much.

Jack: 43:51

Thank you, James. It's been such a pleasure.

43:54

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