The Power of Collaboration: Lessons from Surviving the 2004 Tsunami | Michelle Mills-Porter

In this inspiring and deeply moving episode of Man: A Quest to Find Meaning, James sits down with speaker, behavioural profiler, and collaboration expert Michelle Mills-Porter to explore the transformative power of working together. Michelle shares the life-altering experience of surviving the 2004 Boxing Day tsunami in Sri Lanka — an event that not only reshaped her personal values, but also ignited her lifelong mission to help people collaborate more effectively.

From the chaos and devastation, Michelle witnessed something extraordinary: strangers pooling skills, resources, and ingenuity to create solutions no one could have achieved alone. A broken mobile phone became a lifeline to the world when individuals each contributed one small but vital piece — a battery, a SIM card, a length of wire, technical know-how. It’s a vivid example of how, when we each bring what we have to the table, we create something greater than the sum of its parts.

Michelle explains why so many people undervalue their own contributions, and how letting go of control can open the door to deeper trust, connection, and impact. She also shares her analogy of barbershop harmony to illustrate how collaboration can create a “fifth note” — something magical that emerges only when voices blend in unity.

The conversation covers:

• Recalibrating values after life-changing events
• The courage to stand up first so others can follow
• How society can move from competition to connection
• Why true collaboration needs to become second nature
• Michelle’s behaviour and values analysis tools, designed to help people understand themselves and others

This episode is a heartfelt call to embrace connection, celebrate what you bring, and stretch beyond old patterns — because collaboration isn’t just about achieving more, it’s about creating a better world together.

About Michelle:

Michelle Mills-Porter FPSA is the President of the Professional Speaking Association.

She is a veteran, a past CEO and a Tsunami Survivor.

In an extraordinary shift in trajectory, Michelle is now a renowned behaviour expert and the creator of The People Reader Analysis tools, a suite of empowering tools that help unlock people's magnificence.

Transcript

0:01

In this week's episode, I talk with Michelle Mills Porter about the power of collaboration. She talks about her life changing event. Survive in a 2004 Boxing Day tsunami in Sri Lanka and how this shifted her entire perspective on life values and purpose. And we talk about valu in your contribution and letting go of control. Welcome to Man: A Quest to Find Meaning, where we help men navigate modern life, find their true purpose, and redefine manhood. I'm your host, James, and each week, inspiring guests share their journeys of overcoming fear Embracing vulnerability and finding success. From experts to everyday heroes. Get practical advice and powerful insights. Struggling with career, relationships or personal growth? We've got you covered. Join us on Man Quest to Find Meaning. Now, let's dive in.

James: 1:04

When we collaborate effectively, we can create something greater than a sum of our parts. Good morning, Michelle. Can you explain more?

Michelle: 1:14

Good morning. Yeah I was quite before my life changing experience. I was. Quite independent. I just did things my own way. Not because I'm unsociable, but just because I just get on with things. And it wasn't until my life changing experience that I realized the power of collaboration. And once I'd seen it, I just, I couldn't forget it. I realized that. That we can actually create things that are greater than the sum of our parts. When we all bring what we've got together and collaborate effectively, we can move mountains, and that, it just blew my mind, and I've been on a journey since then to help people to collaborate more effectively and to create something they could never have done on their own.

James: 2:01

Yeah I a hundred percent agree. I couldn't because I know. When I do my own stuff and I'm trying to do it all by myself, it's such it's almost trying to walk up that mountain while pulling a big, massive rock. But I feel as though if I was to go a little bit deeper and a little bit more spiritually into a thing, is the idea that if we're all connected, when we all link our own energy together, we almost have this superpower and this energy almost amplifies.

Michelle: 2:33

You are absolutely right James. Let me give you an analogy. Because I, I use this analogy in quite a few of my keynote talks and it's the analogy of barbershop singing. So barbershop singing is four part harmony. And what happens when you have four people singing and they're singing the right notes? What can happen is something that can be achieved is called an overtone. In barbershop language, it means different things in different. Genres, but an overtone in barbershop is actually the creation of a fifth note that nobody's singing, and it's just created by the four voices coming together and it rings on an overtone and you get a fifth note that nobody is singing, but a trained ear can actually hear. So it's the best way to describe something that is physically. Creating something greater than the sum of its parts. What a beautiful analogy.

James: 3:33

I used to be a member of the PSA and obviously the whole idea of the PSA is about collaboration and obviously the power of collaboration. When you actually work with somebody, you don't just get your own experience, you have experience with the other people. And it, I think when we are able to collaborate, work together. We are starting to create a, I feel a much, much better world.

Michelle: 4:01

Yeah, and I think the Professional Speaking Association is a membership association. The purpose of it is to help people to speak more and to speak better. So it's all about helping people to grow the speaking side of their business or their speaking business, whether that's training, speaking, coaching, whatever. If you use your voice in order to earn a living, then you know that's the right association for you. But actually. My theme as national president is called Collaboration Evolution, and that's the theme that the national President every year has their own theme. And what I wanted to do was to create something within our tribe that gave people the idea of in order to succeed collaboration is essential, but actually we need to evolve. We can't, I want to get us to a place where collaboration is second nature. And we never have to go back to thinking about how we collaborate again. It just becomes second nature.

James: 4:59

Yeah, we, I think some, sometimes, especially at this moment in time, collaboration is so important because we, on the, on Instagram, on Facebook, and there's all these people saying, you can have this amount of money, this house, this car, if you do this. But they sell you the course and then that's it. They leave you to it. And there's this idea that when you are able to work alongside people. You get something more than physical things such as cars money. You start to create connections within yourself, but within other people. And I think one thing I think in this world that we quite often struggle with, and I reckon it's probably a cause of so much suicide, especially in men, is the lack of connection. Collaboration is all about creating those connections, creating something bigger than ourselves, and that gives us a sense of purpose.

Michelle: 6:02

Absolutely. And I think the whole world is fractious. That there are so many examples of individualistic behavior and people doing things. It doesn't matter whether it's. Children, playing on the mobile phones rather than going out and playing with children on the streets or in the parks or whatever, or whether we are talking about politics or, or war or whatever. The whole planet is breaking down into these fractions and. It's more important for us to practice collaboration in these times. There was a memory that came up on Facebook this morning from a few years ago, and it was a poster that I posted up on my page and it said, when hate is strong, love must be stronger. And that's always been my philosophy. It, there is hate in the world. There is. There is trauma in the world, but when there is we, the best way to, you can't fight it. The best way to, to drown it out is to spread more love, to be more giving, to be more collaborative.

James: 7:08

Can you tell us, can you tell us your story?

Michelle: 7:12

Sure. So I thought I was rocking it, James. I was a young CEO at 32 years old. I became a CEO and I was winning every single award going, and I thought that was my purpose. I had 14 staff. Winning all these awards, one of the youngest companies in the country to gain investors in people. And I went on a few holidays in order to celebrate learned to dive in the uk and then our dive team decided to go on a Christmas holiday. And that was in 2004. And we went on a diving holiday to Sri Lanka and we caught, got caught smack bang in the middle of the Boxing Day, tsunami. So we were in UA in Sri Lanka, and it was the second worst hit place on the planet after Indonesia, which was the epicenter. So 250,000 people lost their lives immediately. Another 500,000 people were injured and ill, and. Countless people died afterwards. As a result of that 33,000 people in Sri Lanka lost their lives. More than 4,000 people in the village where I was staying, and 2000 people on the worst ever train. Trauma that we've ever seen, and that was two miles inland from where we were. So it was pretty big. And it was what I learned in the aftermath. In Jimmy Lau's Garden. Jimmy Lau was a village elder who opened up his garden to all of these refugees or displaced people. And we were there for a week, and it's what I learned in that garden about how human beings came together that gave me all the lessons that I now live by. Try and share with others. So it's what I call the magnificence of humanity. And let me give you an example of the first story of collaboration. When I got to that garden, I had a Nokia mobile phone in my hand. It wasn't working. I dunno why, but the signals had gone down and everything. And as soon as I got into that garden. We suddenly had one person that had a battery, one person that had a sim card, one person that had knowledge, one person that had a piece of wire, and all of a sudden they descended on this phone and within minutes we had a working phone. Now, it might seem like a simplistic example, but with that one working phone, every single person in that garden. I've got one message home. We reached every corner of the planet with that one tiny little example of collaboration. And so many people knew that their loved ones were okay. And that's the worst thing people, a lot of people say. The worst thing is not knowing whether their loved ones are okay or not. So the power of that tiny little piece of people bringing what they had together. I had a useless phone. Someone else had some knowledge, someone else had a sim card, someone else had a piece of wire. We just bought what we had, but when we put it together, we made a massive difference across the planet.

James: 10:10

That's powerful. It's it just shows to show that when people pull together. The power it has and how it can impact people's lives in such a big way.

Michelle: 10:21

Yeah, and I think the problem, James, is that a lot of people don't value what they bring to the party. We are afraid to say I can do this because we think well. That's nothing. But what we don't realize, because it comes naturally to us, we don't think that it's valuable.'cause it's everyone can do that. Can't they actually know? If somebody can't do what you do, it's incredibly valuable to them. So we need to get over this fear of, being ridiculed or fear of not bringing enough. We need to get over that and just say, this is what I can do. Might not be a lot, but if we put it together with something else, maybe we can create something. So we need to get over that and learn to just give what we've got, bring it to the party and see what can happen when other people bring what they've got together. It's the collaboration of those skills, the collaboration of that knowledge that then becomes something much more powerful.

James: 11:19

How do you think that people can start to get over their fears in order to start to collaborate more?

Michelle: 11:25

I'll give you another little story if I can. Which might be able to put it into context. I remember a few days in, I said to my friend, John Gin he said, Michelle you don't look, you don't look at yourself today. You okay? And I said, I just, I feel useless. I don't understand what I'm bringing to the party. I don't feel like I'm doing anything. And he said, Michelle, are you mad? And I said, what? Tell me I don't see it. And he said, Michelle, if people are low, you are the one that's raising their spirits. You are the one that's, making them smile. And I'm like, oh, great. So I'm a clown. Is that all I've got to bring to the party? And he said, no, it's more than that. He said, when people are broken, when they're crumbling. You are the one that is whispering in their ear and calming them down. It's the communication, it's your counsel that is managing that, helping people to manage their emotions. And I thought that's. Nothing is it, but it's only months later when I, when people came to me and said, Michelle, if it wasn't for you in that moment, I would've lost it. My children would've seen me lose it. It would've had a much different effect on them. So thank you. And I suddenly realized months later how powerful it was just me doing what I do. I don't value it, but other people find it invaluable. So it's about. Just being open and saying, I don't know if this is any use, but I can tap dance, whatever it might be. I don't know if it's any use I can knit. Oh, hold on a minute. You can knit suddenly in that scenario, we can make fishing nets by somebody who knows how to knit. We can start to make fishing nets. We can feed people. If we can catch fish. How valuable is that? So it, it's about saying, I don't know if this is. Worth anything, but here's my offering. And then allowing other people to say yeah I don't know if this is valuable, but this is what I've got. And then seeing what you can do, putting it together. So it is a practice, and it's a habit. You have to get into the habit of doing that on a regular basis. I think

James: 13:31

communication is so important. I've started reading a book on authentic relating, and that's all basically down to. Going deep deeper into our conversations and trying to understand people, but from our own perspective, and there's one on, so it's about accept, accepting everything kind you saying to yourself I, I acknowledge perhaps anger in myself, but I welcome it. I acknowledge happiness in myself, but I welcome it and it's these kind of things that, so maybe I acknowledge fear. I welcome it because all these parts of ourselves that we don't like about ourselves or we're afraid to acknowledge, but actually underneath the surface, these can become almost our superpowers because we start to accept everything. And then there's another part where it starts to say in about talking about your own experiences and listening to other people's experiences, when you are able to speak about your experiences, you're able to connect more deeply with regards to communication, which then can quite often heal a relationship rather than pushing a person away. So after this army, where did you go from there?

Michelle: 14:51

So it, I look back and it looks like a really tidy timeline, and it wasn't. It was so higgledy piggeldy. What happened was, I went back to my business because I had 14 staff and I felt a responsibility. I felt a responsibility for them paying their mortgage and for their kids to have food in the fridge and shoes on their feet. I, I felt a responsibility, but what had happened is my. All of my values had been recalibrated. I'd been woken up to what was important to me, and it certainly wasn't running my marketing business. I didn't think once about my sales figures whilst I was stuck out that I was thinking about my family. I was thinking about playing Scrabble with mom and dad. I was, thinking about my mom in-law's roast potatoes and a roast dinners, and all those. Those little things are so important. So all of my values have been recalibrated, but because I've gone back to doing something that I thought, was my purpose, it was, it broke me. So eventually, over a long period of time, I just got ill and Ill. It started off with me being sick every time I was going to work and the doctors said it was some kind of reflux disease or, something like that, and put me on on some gastric tablets and stuff like that. It didn't stop. It's my subconscious saying this is the wrong path. And it was almost like things were thrown at me, until I fell down and couldn't get up. So I had slip discs, which I got in the tsunami. I had. The only form of cancer that is not caused by this sun, the only form of skin cancer that's not caused by the sun. I had delayed PTSD fibromyalgia, the worst eczema on my hands and my feet. You've ever seen I'd had an internal infection, which had stopped me ever being able to have children. And I just, I had everything sleep apnea and all sorts, and it just. To the extent where I was literally, I couldn't make it from the bed to the sofa in one go, I was flat on my back, and it was only when I ended up rehoming all my staff and closing my business and then concentrated on healing myself and realizing that the only way. To find that alignment and to heal was to actually be in alignment with my core values, what I call our driving forces. That's what gives us health purpose, fulfillment, and I ended up becoming a behavior profiler and pouring everything I had. Into understanding the lessons that I'd learned. Fast forward another 10 years and I've created an entire suite of brilliant analysis tools which empower people. They help people to understand what their true drivers are, helps'em understand how they communicate, how they're perceived by others. A whole host of these brilliant analysis tools that actually enable me to do what is now my true purpose.

James: 17:40

So before we go to analysis tools, and we talk about that, you mentioned earlier about how your then this normie completely ch transformed your values. What, what actually transformed.

Michelle: 17:58

So let me just put you in the scenario we're sitting there, we've just gone through the biggest natural disaster in our living history. And I'm sitting there and I didn't once think about my sales figures. I didn't once think about, whether my team were hitting their targets or whether my clients were satisfied. It's not, didn't think about that at all. And it was realizing that actually in the worst adversity I'd ever been through, it almost felt like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I was sitting there going, there's nothing I can do. There's nothing I can do about this situation. So for the first time ever, I was not in control and I just had to go with the flow. And it was realizing that actually the things that were important to me. If we get back alive, then this is what I'm gonna do differently. If I get back alive, this is what I'm gonna make sure I do on a regular basis. And work can just go and jump, and we started a charity. When we got back home, we started to do a village fund. And I was the PRO and all I wanted to do was spend time in the charity. Was to look after orphans and help people rebuild their lives in Sri Lanka. That's what I was driven to. I now understand that my core driving forces are social aesthetic and it's all about helping other people. Empowering other people. And what I was doing in my business was nothing like that.

James: 19:29

You mentioned that suddenly you lost all control.'cause I, I. If you look in the world, quite often people love to be in control of their lives, or they think they love to be in control of their lives, but in fact, they get so uptight when things don't go to plan because, oh, I need to control this. How was it when you first realized that you weren't in control, and what was the moment that changed that?

Michelle: 20:02

I think when you are, when the entire world turns upside down and you dunno what's going on, and you see this huge body of water that is now surrounding you and is, we were in the hotel room when it hit and all of a sudden from our third floor hotel room, I could literally, reach down and touch the water. It was so high and everything that you knew. About the seaside was completely turned up, upside down on its head. Everything that was in the ocean is now all around you. So there's no choice. It's just, it's a big bomb, a truth bomb. This is. This is a different reality. So you have to scrap everything that you've held onto in terms of your beliefs and what you know and all that kind of stuff. And just say, okay, what do I do? How do I survive this? How can I help? And, suddenly you are at the mercy of what's happening rather than being able to control it. There's no better way to describe it, is the fact that circumstances made me,

James: 21:07

so for those people that you work with who perhaps have a, this idea of trying to control everything, how do you work with them to relinquish and start to surrender?

Michelle: 21:20

I think there is a particular behavior type that likes to be in control, and it's really important that we don't try and change people's behavior types, but we just need to help'em understand why they feel like that. And if they understand that there is a reason they feel like that they can often reason with themselves and say, okay, I feel like that, but actually I can't be in control. And it could be something as, as simple as. Getting in the car and sitting in the driving seat and saying, I'll drive. And actually, when that person isn't driving and they're in the passenger seat, have you noticed how they're the worst passengers? They're the ones that stamp on the invisible brakes and are like, oh because they. They want to be the person driving the car, not because they're selfish and not because they're controlling, but because they trust themselves. They trust their driving skills to be able to look after everyone in the car. So it's understanding the reason. That we want to be in control over something. And that can quite often help quell the desire to be in control. You just say I know that I want to drive the car because I know that I'm a good driver and I can keep everyone safe, but actually you are a good driver as well, and you can probably keep everyone safe. So I'm gonna button my mouth, let you drive, and and just try and. Contain it a little bit. So it could be something as little as that, and it could be something as big as, as not being able to control the, what's going on in your business. It's just one of those things. Understand each other, understand yourself a little bit more, and then you can duplicate the desire to a certain extent.

James: 22:55

Now I, I can, so I, there's times in my life where I've tried to control things. And what I've noticed is the more that I try to control, the more that I get uptight, the more anxious I get, the more fearful I get. And so I've had to over the last probably, I don't know. 5, 6, 7 years, I've started to let go and surrender. And I think the biggest example I can give there is that this house that I live in here live in here now, back in 2017, I was looking and I was basically going around every house saying, yes, this is the one. This is the one. And then I go into the next house and this is the one, this is the one. I came into this one and I was like. This is the one I knew deep down that this actual house was the one, and it fell through twice. And the lesson there was that if I just allow myself to surrender, if it's right for me, it will happen. And it happened. And that's just the power of letting go.

Michelle: 23:59

Yeah. You are so right, James. And if I think, if I think about scenarios that happened, I look back and it feel, there's a cathartic feeling about what happened. You look back and you think, do you know what? Danny was holding onto Paul's hand, her father, and she was being swept away, and he lost grip, and you might think, oh my God, that's it. She's gone. But actually, when he lost her grip and she carried on being washed away. All of a sudden a rack of BCD jackets those, inflatable jackets, a big heavy rack fell down and it would've fallen straight onto Donny, a tiny little curl. It was stick thin. They used to call a shark's tooth pick just as Tiny little thing. She'd have been flattened. So actually it was. It was the right thing to do. So that letting go, it didn't let go on purpose, but actually that letting go was the very best thing that could have happened. She survived. He survived. And that might not have been the scenario, if that rack had fallen on top of them and there were so many thousands of instances that you see almost in slow motion, if that hadn't have happened, then that would've res resulted in something completely different. So there is that belief that, okay. I'm stuck in a traffic jam. Maybe I'm not meant to arrive at that time. I can't get to the meeting in time. Maybe there's a reason for that. It, I don't know. But I do have this spiritual side of me that says, okay, I hear you angels. I'm just gonna sit tight.

James: 25:36

Yeah. Yeah. So going back to your analysis tools, can you explain that a little bit more?

Michelle: 25:43

I have, I've written a whole suite of analysis tools. I started off being a behavior profiler using other people's tools. And it got to the stage where I. I wanted more from my tools. I was doing behavior profiling tools, and I was realizing that actually that question's wrong. It's eliciting the wrong answer, and I'm delivering the analysis in front of a team full of people, and they're saying I've got that written about me, and I've got that written about. We are completely different people. So the tools weren't good enough. So I decided that I wanted to go right back to the originator and I went back to William Malta Marston's work and what he really meant by the words that he used in my opinion. And I rewrote it. And one of the things that I'd realized. Is that we are driven by an unseen force. So even though you can see somebody's behavior style quite often, we don't know what motivates them. And again, these are lessons that I learned in the aftermath of the tsunami, watching people behave and act in ways that I wasn't necessarily expecting and realizing there's not an awful lot. That we can do to uncover that. So I created a tool that will allow you to understand what your own core driving forces are within seven or eight minutes. None of this rubbish about saying it's gonna take seven years, 10 years for you to understand your purpose and your drivers. No, it doesn't. That's the postman. Sorry. Can't do a lot about him.

James: 27:11

That's all right.

Michelle: 27:12

Yeah. Go away. Thank you. Yeah. But so I did the core driving forces analysis, which I call essence'cause it's our DNA, it's our essence. The behavior is just the way that we tend to communicate and think and we can change that. It's very changeable. I've got another tool, the only analysis tool I know of, that allows you to covertly read someone else. For the sake of building rapport. I wrote it initially for salespeople,'cause my background is sales and I thought if you have a hot prospect and you want to be able to know how to build rapport with them, how do you do that? Do you know what? You can go online, you can fill in analysis about them, your opinion of them. And it just asks questions about when James signs his email off, how does he sign it off? And when he meets you, how does he greet you? Is it a big hug? Is it a firm shake of hand? And what it does is then it gives you this rapport and all the ways that you can build rapport, all the ways you're gonna break rapport. Based on the information you've given. And it's a, it's an incredible tool and I'm now writing that tool for couples, for families, for many more scenarios for customer care rather than just having this, the sales kind of aspect. So that's a tool I'm really excited about.

James: 28:29

Something, tools are so important because what I've come to to realize about my own journey. Is that there is no one thing that fits for everybody and there's not one thing which is gonna last the entire life. I feel like you get things which come in at the right time. You take a bit of that, then you get the next thing. You get a bit of that, and one day I'll sort at the moment is human design and understanding. I didn't know if you've heard of human design. Yeah. Yeah. So I've understand that I'm a projector so that my energy goes up in waves. And so it's understanding that I can't do an eight hour day because my energy would be whacked. But it's, but also knowing that there'll be times when I might have to go and have a nap to re boost my energy. And sometimes I think we can get so caught up in one thing. And that almost becomes our our savior, our God. But then I found that human design. Not getting too caught up in it or wrapped up, but allowing myself to take what I need and then disbanding the rest and that, that really helps me. And so I can imagine your tool would be great for people to pick up, to see their behavior style, to see other people's behavior styles. Say, okay, that works. Let's take them, let's go on. Yeah. And then move on from there.

Michelle: 29:56

I think my tools are designed because I'm known as the people reader and I didn't realize I was only diagnosed a couple of years ago with A DHD, but now it all makes sense. The reason I read people so easily is because I have this hypersensitivity to everything about. Somebody's energy and their facial, my micro facial expressions, their behavior the words they're using, I pick up on that hypersensitivity, but I didn't realize that when I wrote all these tools. I'm just going I can do this. How can I help you do it? So I've got. All these courses, CPD, qualified courses, C-P-D-C-P-D, qualified courses on reading other people. But for me the analysis are actually the evidence because I can sit here and talk to you and I can tell you all this stuff, but unless you actually do your own analysis and then have a 28 page report that you can read through. That's the evidence and it's there written on paper and they are remarkable. And when people read them, they're like, I cannot believe that you've got all this information after just 10 minutes of me filling out this analysis. But I think the important thing, James, with my tools is that you shouldn't just read them and put them in the drawer because that's a vanity tool. That's, it's not, that's not used to anyone. What you need to do is you need to get it out. You need to read the results every single day for a minimum of 28 days, and understand who you are, how you communicate, why you don't get on with certain people, why you are drawn to others, because that's the only way that you can grow and evolve. Otherwise, it's just a vanity tool. It's just, oh, it says that about me. Isn't that lovely? And then you put it away. It's pointless. Pointless. You've got to, you've gotta implement it. If you don't implement it, there's no point.

James: 31:44

Yeah, you almost a hundred percent. It's like anything, it's human design, it's like authentic, relating all these different tools. It's all very well reading a book about it and then going onto the next book. You've gotta, you've gotta do it. And one thing I'm doing at the moment is. There's a lady called Taylor Eaton, and I'm gonna have her on, I think in a couple of weeks. She talked about, man, she talks about money, but from an energetic point of view. Yeah. And one of the 28, 21 day programs that we're doing at the moment is quantum jumping to doing a quantum jumping to the money manifesting. I felt an urge to quantum jump into abundance of love. And what I'm finding is the more that I jump into the quantum jumping of abundance of love, the more actually people are turning around and talking to me. The more I'm able to go and give people a there's a girl at desk, the other a tell the other day, and she was, I think she was, she looked very new. She was quite nervous. And I said to her, you're doing an amazing job. And that moment gave her a smile. And so is that. Able to interact with people back into, but from a space of abundance of love, but it's about implementing that into your daily practice.

Michelle: 33:03

Yeah, and it's, until you gave me that example, I was struggling a little bit because I struggle with manifestation and I particularly struggle with money'cause I don't reconcile with that. My utilitarian core driving force, which is about money and everything is very low. And that's because my social is high in there. Kind of opposites. And it it doesn't resonate with me when you're talking about, quantum jumping and and manifestation. I find it a little bit woowoo and that's really bizarre because some people would look at behavior profiling and think, that's a bit woo. I'm like, no, it's a science. Here's the proof, but actually other people have a different opinion of it. So thank you for giving me that explanation. It makes it much more palatable for me. There are still certain areas where I'm thinking, yeah that's a stretch too far for me. Somebody. Was talking to me the other day, beautiful girl that I've just met. She's, we've, we just resonated so much and then she started talking about, are you a star seed? And I'm like, whoa, that's a little bit too far for me. I can't, but it's not that I'm not interested, it is just that I'm not there yet. Yeah. And I have one foot very firm. In science and the other one kind of like pokes around spirituality and stuff. But I've gotta tell you one thing, James, I have had my best year of speaking ever this year, and there is no rhyme or reason. There is no rhyme or reason. Suddenly I'm getting more booked. Suddenly I'm getting better bookings, bigger bookings, more regular bookings, and there's no rhyme or reason I've been speaking for 20 plus years. So why is it suddenly turned around? It's not because I've sat there and manifested it. It's not because I've changed in any way, shape, or form that I can see. I have no idea what's caused it. Do you know what? I'm just gonna go with the flow and say, thanks. Keep it going.

James: 34:54

Yeah. As you said earlier on, it's the unseen force. I think I something bigger than the selves.

Michelle: 35:03

Maybe it is something in the way that you deliver your message that resonates with people. And this is, I, although I've been a professional speaker for more than 20 years, I didn't speak about the tsunami or what I learned in the aftermath of the tsunami until maybe seven years ago, because for me, the story is not important. The story is just the wrapping paper. Unless you understand the lessons that you are gonna leave people with, it's pointless. The gift is the lessons. And the story is just the wrapping paper. So it was only maybe seven years ago that I started talking about it. And a lot of people say, oh, you've done a TEDx. Oh, I'll watch that. And I go, oh no, please don't. It's the first time I ever spoke about it. And I look at what I deliver now and what I delivered in my first ever TEDx on the same subject. And it's a world apart. A world apart. So maybe there is something in my delivery that is resonating with people and making them, head of global consulting for BAE systems saying, Michelle, you opened up our conference. That was magnificent. I'm gonna change the way I speak now based on watching you. And I'm just like, whoa. That's bizarre.

James: 36:19

How have you noticed how you've evolved? So as you've started to do this this analysis tools and used it and behavior change with yourself and others, how have, how have you noticed your evolution?

Michelle: 36:32

I'm much more accepting of others, whereas before I would've gone, yeah, I don't get on with you. We, we've got different values. There's almost this element, and I talk about it now, Jones, when people say, you don't share my values, therefore you are my enemy. That's what causes wars. Actually realizing that our values come from our first seven years of life when our brain is learning at a fastest speed than ever. And you realize that it's due to your upbringing, your experiences, your culture, your background, your religion, what your caregivers teach you. That's what forms your core driving forces. So if someone else. Has got different core driving forces. It just means they have a different perspective. They have different experiences, a different upbringing, different culture, background, religion. They have different caregivers teaching them different things. It doesn't mean they're your enemy. It means that they can teach you. A perspective that you are not aware of. So actually embracing that, and like you said earlier on, accepting that and trying to work out how you get on, that's the key. Rather than creating these silos of saying, yeah, I don't get on with you, I don't get on with you. This is where I live. No it's about that collaboration is. I guess the tools help everyone to collaborate better because it shows you how people are likely to perceive you and why you feel certain ways about other people. It's not a difference in it's not a difference in animals, it's just a difference in behavior or perception.

James: 38:06

As soon as you mentioned that I picked up the words collaboration because it's, we can get too caught up in our own little worlds and it's almost puts a sideline to what's going on. But how can people start to understand their own? So how, if, obviously they can get in contact with you, but how can people start to explore their own core values?

Michelle: 38:32

I, okay, here's a little exercise, which I dunno where I got it from. I know that it, I didn't make it up. It's something that I heard and have evolved. But what I say is imagine that you are in a train, okay? And that train has got two seats up front, and then it's got two seats behind, two seats behind, and it's a great big, long carriage. Now you sit at the front. And who do you want by your side? What do you want by your side? What are the things that you can't live without? And after that, what is in the two seats behind you and what's in the two seats behind them? So if you make a list of all the things that are important to you and a list of all the people that are important to you, and then start to put them in order. It will help you realize what you can't live without and what you can't live without are the things that are most important. That might sound a little bit simplistic, but I'm a simplistic kind of girl.

James: 39:31

From my own perspective, what I've noticed over time is how my values have changed as I've evolved. I think quite often my initial values when I started, they'd be more perhaps from my own personal perspective, egotistical. So I'd want money, I would want a good job. I would want a loving family. But as I've evolved my, as I've evolved and gone on this path, what I've come to notice is that my values have turned from from that to, to love, to freedom, to to, what are the other one's? Playfulness and things like that. So how can, the question I wanna ask here is how do people really know? What they want.

Michelle: 40:24

See, this is the reason that I wrote Essence. There's a big difference between, and I call it core driving forces. What drives you rather than values? Because as soon as we start talking values, we start to argue with people about what they are. If I ask someone what their values are, they tell me what they aspire to, what they want their values to be. That isn't necessarily what's true for them. So what essence? The essence analysis. What that does is it shows you truly subconsciously what drives you by the cl very cleverly written questions and the answers that I elicit from that it, it shows you what truly drives you. That's a different thing altogether. But what you are talking about James, is you are talking about the fact that, you were thinking. What you've gotta start somewhere. What are your values? Okay, I want money. I want a nice car. I want success. I wanna be heard, and all that kind of stuff. But then you've gotta peel the onion layers back and say, but why? But why? Why do you want money? Because it'll make me feel recognized, because it'll make me feel successful. But why? Okay. And you keep asking the but why, and where. You've got to, you've called it evolution. It's how you've evolved. It was always there, James. You just weren't asking the right questions and peeling the onion layers back. So what you want to do, the truth of what you want to do, you know the earning the money might help you get there, but it's not the truth of what you want. The truth of what you want is what you're talking about now. So well done for getting there.

James: 41:54

Thank you very much. Because it's. In this world. I think it's also part if, I think society almost quite often in school dictates that you need to go and do education, go and get a job, go and get married. And we I suppose it's still dated a hundred plus 200 years ago, but it's, I, we are getting to this place of collaboration, of turning our world from things like war and prosper and people being being poor and that kind of thing. And it's about us taking that collaboration and moving it into a place of. Abundance of, and when I say abundance, I couldn't mean abundance of love. It could be abundance of prosperity, it could be abundance of life, it could be anything like that, but love, family connection and all these things. And I think I've, I fully believe we're heading in the right direction, but there's still plenty of work to be done.

Michelle: 42:58

The my theme of collaboration evolution, when people are saying why don't you just call it collaboration? Why is it collaboration evolution? And this is why we start to learn how to collaborate more effectively. We start to learn how powerful we can be when we put all of those good things together and we start to realize how important. That collaboration is, but human beings are like elastic bands. We bounce back so quickly. So what we need to do, and I want you to think of it like a piece of nicker, elastic. Okay? You need to keep stretching it and keep stretching it until the elastic goes, until it doesn't bounce back to where it was. That takes practice. You have to keep stepping forward. And I said this from main stage last year. If we keep taking a step forward and then taking a step back, the only thing we're doing is the fricking hokey cokie. We are not evolving. We need to take one step forward and then we need to bring the other foot forward. And sometimes we just need to stand there. And be grounded before we can take the next step. But it's all about that moving forward and not allowing ourselves to bounce back to where we've been before. And that is true in society. When we look at what's happening with with equality and acceptance of each other, we are seeing the entire world. Step backward, taking steps backwards. And it's like, why are we taking a step backward? We moved past this, we got somewhere, let's evolve. And I went to, I was invited by moving ahead, an agency that I is very dear to me. We have a brilliant relationship. They invited me to the House of Lords, to this magnificent. Event where there were several women who were just phenomenal and they'd been all over the world and they came back and we were talking about equality and. And diversity, and they were saying exactly what I was saying, but on different subjects, we need society to move forward and we cannot allow society to move back. So when people are taking steps backwards we have to say, no, I'm sorry. That's, I don't agree with that. And stu our grand, because otherwise we are that nicker elastic.

James: 45:04

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's down, sometimes it's down to fear because I think you've got tv, you, sorry, news. You've got all kinds of different other things, and I feel like people are sometimes afraid. Some people are afraid to step out because when you step out, it's like the tank analogy. When you, in your tank, you're safe, you put your head out the, like the parapet, it can be shot off. We need them, brave you to stand up to be seen so that others can do the same.

Michelle: 45:35

And do you know what? When we do stand up and speak out, what we're actually doing is we are giving other people permission to do the same and. And it's imagine one of my talks, if one person doesn't stand and give me a standing ovation at the end, no one will. Once one person stands up, everyone starts standing up. And I think if we look at it like that and say it's not about sticking our head out of the tank to get shot at, it's about standing and saying, that was marvelous. I'm giving a standing ovation and then watching everyone else say, yeah, I agree. That was marvelous. And it's like a comedian doing standup. If one person doesn't laugh, then nobody laughs. If one person starts laughing, it gives everyone permission to laugh. So be that person that is encouraging the crowd to be themselves and allowing them to have permission to, to, to applaud or to laugh.

James: 46:34

Yeah. It's almost, there's this idea that. Yes, it's scary to stand up and be seen and to show your true self, but it's also admirable and it's this idea that once, as you said, once, once you start to stand up, others will stand up alongside you.

Michelle: 46:55

Yeah, and I've, I, sometimes I've been, sometimes I've been the only person that's given someone a standing ovation and no one else has joined in. I don't care. I'm showing you what I feel and how much I respect what you've just delivered. And if other people don't wanna stand, that's okay. So you also have to remember that maybe sometimes you are gonna be the only person standing, and that's okay.

James: 47:17

Yeah. I know from my own, because I'm starting to stand up now. Whatever what I'm doing and try my best. But it can be scary. And I, but at the same time, I also know that this, the being, having this fear, having this anxiety or whatever emotional feeling is inside me, is an opportunity actually to love this part of me. So if you love that embarrassment, if you love that fear, you start to create this love with for this. Emotion or this feeling or whatever it is, and you actually start to sink. So it becomes, almost, becomes second nature and it becomes easier.

Michelle: 47:57

Yeah. And do you know what it is just come to me. Which really, I think it really fits in with that. If you are standing at the back of the audience and you stand. For a standing ovation, the rest of the audience doesn't know that you're standing unless you are near the front. They can't see that you're standing. So actually, with you doing your podcasts, with me being a speaker, with people actually going out there. And putting it on social media, it's the only way that other people are gonna know that you're doing it. So you have to be in a position of leadership of sorts in order for other people to be able to see you. So even if it just means if you've got an idea or whatever, or you want to say something, if you are the first person that puts it on social media, then put it on social media. You're gonna have some people standing with you. You're gonna have some people disagreeing with you. That's okay, but unless you are the person starting it. And in a visible place where other people can see, other people aren't gonna know.

James: 48:57

Yeah. It's, so the lesson there is to go to the front, book yourself, the front seats of the place where you go into, or just get on social media. Thank you very much, Michelle. So if people wanna get back in contact with you, how can they get in contact?

Michelle: 49:13

They probably won't. So this is something really interesting. I have Neurodivergence. I'm a DHD. One of my talks is called The Astonishing Advantages of Neurodivergence, and I'm a big advocate of that. One thing that I get is I get rejection sensitivity dysphoria, so I'm not gonna hope that anyone reaches out to me because from a podcast, people don't. I would love love. Any of your audience to prove me wrong, and to do that, there's only one Michelle Mills Porter on the planet. You can find me on LinkedIn. That's probably the easiest place to find me. But if anyone was to reach out and say, I just saw you on James's podcast, that I would be thrilled.

James: 49:56

There we go. Everybody reach out and I can, and this we, everybody can clarify. I can see Michelle's energy, Michelle's passion, and it's absolutely amazing. So thank you very much, Michelle.

Michelle: 50:10

Thank you. I'm just going to say one thing. For the first three people that do reach out to me, I will gift them an essence analysis and it will change their lives.

James: 50:22

We go. Bye Michelle. Thank you very much.

Michelle: 50:27

My pleasure.

50:29

Thanks for tuning in to Man a Quest. Find meaning if today's conversation sparked something in you, take a moment to reflect, then take a step. Remember, real growth comes from action, not just insight. If you found value in this episode, share it with a friend. Leave her a review, or reach out and let me know what resonated. Your feedback helps shape the journey we are on together. For more conversations like this, make sure to subscribe and stay connected. You can also follow me on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn for updates, tools, and upcoming guests. Remember. It's not about having the answers. It's about daring to look.