Leading From the Inside Out: How Identity, Joy, and Energy Shape True Leadership | MaryAnne Katsidis

In this rich and honest conversation, I sit down with Maryanne Katsidis to explore what it really means to lead from the inside out. We go beyond the usual leadership talk and dive into the inner architecture that shapes how leaders think, decide, and hold pressure — especially under sustained complexity.

Maryanne shares how true recalibration doesn’t start with systems or strategies, but with stabilising what’s happening internally — emotionally, energetically, and somatically. We talk about identity shifts, joy suppression, the sacred role of anger, and how deeper connection to self creates steadier leadership.

We also explore Maryanne’s near-death experience, her initiation into Dragon energy, and how fire, creativity, and embodiment have shaped her life and work. This episode is a powerful invitation to reimagine leadership as a path of truth, presence, and inner alignment — not performance.

Whether you’re a CEO, coach, or simply someone walking the path of deeper self-awareness, this one will meet you where you are.

About MaryAnne Katsidis:

Maryanne Katsidis is an Executive Advisor and Energetic Leadership Strategist who works privately with CEOs and senior leaders navigating sustained pressure, fatigue, and cultural instability. Her work focuses on diagnosing and resolving the internal pressure and regulatory patterns that shape how leaders think, decide, and lead and how culture responds as a result.

With more than 30 years across leadership, education, and cultural development, Maryanne operates at the level most leaders never receive support, the energetic architecture beneath behaviour, emotion, and strategy. Her work stabilises leadership presence at the source, allowing trust, decision-making, and culture to recalibrate organically.

https:www.maryannekatsidis.com

Transcript

0:01

In this episode I talk with Maryanne about leadership. A starts at the root compared to the traditional sense how creating lasted. Embodied change requires changing our inner identity. First, how somatic and energetic regulation is a foundation for calm, clarity and better decision making, and so much more. Welcome to Man: A Quest to Find Meaning, where we help men navigate modern life, find their true purpose, and redefine manhood. I'm your host, James, and each week, inspiring guests share their journeys of overcoming fear Embracing vulnerability and finding success. From experts to everyday heroes. Get practical advice and powerful insights. Struggling with career, relationships or personal growth? We've got you covered. Join us on Man Quest to Find Meaning. Now, let's dive in.

James 1:01

What I know is simple when a leader studies everything around them. Recalibrates. Good morning, Maryanne. Can you tell me more?

MaryAnne 1:13

Absolutely. Good morning. It's so good to join you. Okay. So what that statement, what I know is simple when a leader studies everything around them recalibrates. The work that I do with CEOs is one where we stabilize. Not through frameworks or emotional intelligence or nervous system work specifically, but it is what is happening at the roots for them internally. And when they steady, when they recalibrate what is happening for them internally, emotionally, what, when they, when the pressure that they're living recalibrates, then everything eases in their organization. So the way that they lead becomes easier, the way that their people respond becomes easier. And that is why that statement is true for me.

James 2:06

I think it, what you said it said about happened at the root. I think that's key because quite often when we look for, and I'll quickly mention, so I've always had a business coach who would look from the outside in, who would look at the different marketing, would look at the different ways and means would look at how I can improve myself. From the outside in, but obviously with having Cora, Elizabeth a new coach. Yeah, the, it's changed. So we are looking at the identity, we are looking at the inner change first, which creates delta change. So obviously I feel like that shifts the whole, your whole idea, your whole way of working, the whole, then you become more attuned.

MaryAnne 2:56

Absolutely you do. And the work that I do. So I recognize patterns, I can see and feel them and I am able to ascertain where things have started. So a leader might respond to me and say, I'm experiencing some stress around this situation, and I'm able to determine where that pattern started. And then we talk about what might have been happening around that time. And using somatic techniques and kinesiology, I'm able to. Rewire what is happening for them on a subconscious level. And that way their nervous system knows that it can re relax, that there's some safety there. But that container is. It is you need the right facilitator in those sessions. And Kara is an amazing coach. I've worked with her as well. She she's she's like my muse really. But but this work with CEOs at that level, the pressure that they're carrying is so internal not. And it's not just on one level. It's not just leading a team. They have got the whole comm, they've got. Their organization, they've got their community that's watching them, they've got their family, they've got the government, they've got their board. So it's so multi-pronged. And so the support at that level is different from an entrepreneur for example. It is very intense and very complex. Being able to provide that support and helping them steady that internal pressure I feel is a real gift. And it. Everything, all of the things that have happened for me in my experience have led to this. I've just followed the path and this is where things have landed.

James 4:44

You've mentioned quickly there about recognizing patterns. Is that one of your gifts or is that something that you've had to work on to, to build?

MaryAnne 4:56

A bit of both. Mostly it's just something natural that I've been able to do my whole life. So there were many years there where I was suppressing it or I felt bad that I was seeing things that other people couldn't see, or I was feeling annoyed that people couldn't see what I could see. But now, obviously as I've, matured and had different life experiences and work with different types of people, and having been a therapist for eight and a half years. I know how to use that gift and I cultivated it while I was a therapist. So I had a lot of clients that were entrepreneurs and business leaders that I was treating even back then and now over time it is just strengthened. So it is a combination.

James 5:43

I, for me, I can, I see. So I'm what they call it cla clairvoyance. But at the same time, I can, like inside my own body, I can almost pinpoint intuitively where to go and what to see. And I can almost do it if other people, and I always sometimes know exactly what they're thinking and whether something's wrong. And usually I know what's wrong.

MaryAnne 6:08

And that's, that is. A, an absolute gift, not just for you, but for the people that you are witnessing. Because a lot of people their whole, their desire is to be seen. And so to be able to witness somebody and let them feel that. Even if that makes them a little bit uncomfortable, really is a gift.'cause we, we are trained and encouraged to walk around with blinkers on and to mask and to protect ourselves and to hide. When you are witnessing people, and I, and this has happened for me as well. In dating. That's my favorite one, where I'm like truly seeing that person and they freak out. Like it's confronting for a lot of people, but I just think, this is how I am, this is and of course it's, you are seeing the best of them, but sometimes people haven't recognized that for themselves, so it can feel a bit discombobulating. They feel a bit uneasy. They don't know what to do with it, and it's, it can be quite overwhelming.

James 7:08

Yeah I've done that before. In, in, it wasn't necessarily relationships, but when I've had short-term answers, I've been able to pick up when something's wrong. And then I almost, I voice it. I don't, sometimes I should perhaps hold back a little bit and say, okay, I recognize that now. Just feel into the discomfort of it. But it's more sometimes when you voice that there's this, they're like. Almost right back at you because they either take it as a gift at the time or sometimes there's an idea that, okay, I'm working through that kind of thing and I don't need you to voice it.

MaryAnne 7:52

Yeah, exactly. But.

James 7:55

Go. Sorry.

MaryAnne 7:56

Yeah it's reading. It's reading the energy without the words, and especially because you can see and feel as well. It sometimes you. There needs to be some reflection of, does this need to be, is this just for me to know and acknowledge, or is this something that I need to share with the other person? And that comes with practice that, we all go through those experiences, but for the most part, people, my, my favorite tool is asking somebody if they wanna know what I'm seeing or what I'm feeling about a situation. And then if they say no, that's fine. But most of the time that people are curious, they do wanna know. That one, that, that's the way that I keep out of mischief. I,'cause I, especially with my family, I love to tell them all the things that I'm seeing and that I'm thinking and that I'm feeling. But do they wanna receive it? No, they don't. And I'll ask them, I've learned to ask them now, and sometimes they absolutely say no, I know what you're gonna say. They say, so I'll just leave them where they are.

James 8:55

Chris, it's I know there's certain people. That are quite quiet, but there's part of me that knows, what they need to be able to, they, their next step is to stand in their own power and to start to foist their own Yeah. Themselves loudly. But maybe me saying that isn't quite right, the right time for them, for me to say it. For them to hear it.

MaryAnne 9:22

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And that's why asking the question, do you wanna know, is a really great way to, to keep the boundaries there and to respect the other person, but also yourself, because sometimes volunteering your insights as well-meaning as it is. If the other person isn't ready and they reject it or they don't wanna hear it, or you feel disappointed that they haven't listened or they're ignoring what you're saying or dismissing it you, you start to feel bad. And so it's a good way for you to protect your energy and the way so you're not energy leaking and you are also giving that person a choice. Yeah.

James 10:06

It's almost just knowing when to tell them and not going blah all that information out because otherwise they can, you can almost, yeah, they can almost reject it and then suddenly if you are quite sensitive soul, you'll then feel that rejection.

MaryAnne 10:23

Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's usually what happens at the beginning of a journey. When you start tapping into your gifts you, it takes a bit of practice to learn that, and that comes with experience. But over time you become more comfortable in just holding the energy and just trusting whatever is, whatever is supposed to happen next.

James 10:44

Yeah. Okay. I'll, we'll come back to trust in a minute because I've been exploring trust quite a bit. So can you tell us your story please?

MaryAnne 10:53

Yeah, so I I have I first started my own business as an entrepreneur at 19, so I've always had a. A, a different insight about the kind of life that I wanted to live. I, my dad was an entrepreneur and I watched him grow and develop and build a life and a legacy, and so that stayed with me very much and. At 19, I started with so much delusion. I started a clothing business and I love that so much. And I ran that for two and a half years, and I did so well because I had no fear. And of course at 19 you are fearless. It's a very different chain of events now at nearly 50 where, I'm more considered, I'm thinking I'm taking more calculated risks, but there's a part of me that wishes I was more like that. So I've been reflecting on that lately. But after that I went in and started working with a large corporate, a telco, and stepped into leadership there and that felt. Like a really natural thing for me to do. I loved leading teams and I was good at it. And then I moved into marketing while I was there, and then I left there and started studying kinesiology and built a kinesiology business. So I was running that for eight and a half years. So I learned a lot about the. The subconscious and the way people are responding and how the subconscious patterns really determine how people are responding and reacting. Without their conscious knowledge and how that is feeding patterns. And I really, I love that a lot, but I burnt myself out and then I closed the business down and made a choice to step away from that and had an opportunity to work for a virtual reality company, which was so random and. I was working in strategy and marketing for that organization and I forgot how much I loved that aspect of my skillset. And then COVID happened and I was made redundant and I, so I. It gave me a bit of a crossroads moment and I thought, okay, what am I going to do now? And I wanted to go back to working for myself and I wanted to incorporate the marketing and strategy side of things, but I wanted to work with purpose-based businesses. And so I did, and I ran that for two, two or so years, and then I had a near death experience that turned everything on its head and made me reevaluate again. And so this was like an another crossroads moment. And I decided to look at what, on a metaphysical level, what was causing. That, that near death experience, and I realized it was a program that I was running where I wasn't allowing myself to experience joy and I had a disbelief that I was allowed to experience joy, and so it was playing out without me even realizing, even though I was working with fantastic clients and I was working for myself successfully. I was doing all the right things there. There was a part of me that just really wasn't feeling ignited the way that, I guess my soul really wants. Really wanted to. And so I took a two month pause to really think about what I wanted to do when I was working, spiritually and working on my nervous system and energetically did a lot of deep inner work and realized that. I was still holding back from this work that I'm doing now because I was scared. And so I ended up seeing, and through a lot of meditation, I ended up seeing the visualization for this work. And I made a commitment to myself and to the universe that I would commit to this for however long it took. And so this is my legacy work, and I'm incredibly passionate about it. I, I. Every experience personally and professionally has led to this. And so it is natural and easy for me and very joyful, but I've had to strip away a lot of things, like I had to turn my business upside down. I went from, strategy and marketing, Maryanne to business advisor, Maryanne, and I had to let go of the things that I was using to relate. To CEOs and to business leaders. I had to let go of being the spiritual one. And so there was a lot to undo and it's taken a little bit of time. And even now, like I, there are still phases where I'm letting my nervous system expand so I can hold the capacity of this work, but I can do it now with Joy because I know. Why and where I'm going. And I saw the parts that I was refusing to look at and I stood still with it for the first time in my whole life. And I just faced the things that were causing me a great deal of pain that I just, I didn't wanna look at and deal with. I just wanted to keep suppressing. But it was coming out physically and as we know when with emotions. If you don't deal with it and you suppress it and suppress it, eventually it'll start to come out on a physical level. And that's why I like to look at the metaphysical aspects for the physical issues because it's telling about what is happening emotionally. And it's where the the rope's gone too far out. And it is work that is. Intimate and sacred to me and the clients that I work with, they know that they're being held with respect, with integrity and truth, and it's not, it's not necessarily light and breezy work when you're having to look at some of the internal stuff, but God, you feel amazing after. And the only reason I can do this work so deeply is because I've, I have taken and continue to take myself to that level and. I encourage anyone that's listening, if you're working with a facilitator, you want someone that is actively doing that. And Cara is a brilliant, she, she talks the talk. She's one that she's constantly in that inner work, and so of course she can. Coach and facilitate in, in that remarkable way that she does because she knows how to take herself through what I call like the underground. And yeah that's basically my story. That's the simplest sort of version of it. But there always, there have been some very key moments. When I had my spiritual awakening, that was a key moment when I. When COVID happened, that was another key moment. And then the near death experience was definitely another key moment. So tho those points, I think we've always got a choice about what we're going to do there. Are we gonna, are we gonna regress again and have another cycle of the same thing, or are we gonna challenge ourselves through it? And I've been through hell and back, I've had a lot of trauma, there was no way I was gonna stay in the pit. But it takes a lot of courage to do that and that's why most people spend some time avoiding it. But the way that the world is going now, we are really not gonna have much, especially now as we are in 2026. There's not much choice for avoiding, and it's only going to intensify for people. Highly encourage that. If there are things that you're not wanting to look at, just be ahead of it. Always go willingly. That's what I say.

James 18:39

So something I wanna quickly cover, you've mentioned about Joy. I've not really allowed to experience it. So a couple of, I think about three weeks ago I went to a shadow day retreat and we are, and the one thing that this is one of the peoples. Was said was that they felt like the joy was almost the joy that they wanted to bring to themselves and the world was almost blocked. And that kind of sat with me and that kind of felt quite related to that. And it's this feeling that within the for me, joy has, I've only suppressed joy. Because I suppose there's this idea that if you start showing joy, if you start suning your arms around, people are gonna think, what's he all about? Who's that weird person? And so there's been blocks, but it's funny'cause what I've come to realize is that all these things, whether it's emotion, whether it's different abilities or. Yeah, like trust, like joy, like confidence. They all have a different vibration or frequency, and so I've come, I've got this realization that if we try to use our brain to logically think about these things, we can only get so far. But if you allow yourself to go into the body. Into these parts. So say for example, trust. Trust, I feel like trust comes here. So going into that part of the body and allowing in that moment just to feel that trust. And I feel like the more you go into these parts of the body where that, and that might change around the body going into the parts of the body where you feel this ability or this whatever and exploring it, I feel then you start to. By break, you start to connect that frequency of that whatever it is, whether it's joy, whether it's happiness, whether it's sadness, whether it's trust. And I feel like embodying these qualities, that's the word, after the qualities, embodying these qualities is the key, I think, to going deeper into him and starting to properly be with these things.

MaryAnne 21:03

Absolutely. And when hearing me say I wasn't allowing myself to experience joy, you might think like what? You've never experienced joy. You don't, you didn't experience joy. Yes, I did experience it, but it was fleeting because. Quickly after experiencing joy. It was, did I, there were programs of did I deserve that? Am I worthy of that? What's next? And'cause I was on a perpetual, like I had this sort of cycle where I was. It was like an internal running where I was onto the next thing and the next thing and proving and people pleasing and driving myself crazy with a million tasks and overworking. And so even with some big achievements like in 2014. Before chat, GPT before any of the tools that are available Now I wrote and self-published a book on my own. I did all of that work. I learned how to do that. I put it up on Amazon before any of it of the cool things that are available now for help. And, but as soon as I published that book. It was like I couldn't feel it. It was like nothing. Even though I was proud of myself consciously. I couldn't feel the joy of that. And I, I remember thinking, this isn't normal, but I didn't know what to do with it really. And even though I was having therapy and things at the time, it's only now reflecting back that I can see that it was because that, that, that. That connection to true joy not the egoic joy not the adrenaline. And that feeling, no, it was like the peace that comes with joy that the presence with the joy I just, I couldn't connect to, and so that for me is. Incredibly important. And I think for our society as a whole, that's a big missing piece. I hear people talking about kindness, that's a big piece as well but being present with joy, being present with yourself is a. Such a, an integral aspect of this work. And it's a quality that I think is underrated. I think that, e every, everything has its place, but that for me sits at the core. And so when you are a leader or an entrepreneur rushing and holding so much pressure and feeling overwhelmed, feeling, highly responsible. Even personally, if you are, if you're a parent, you are carrying a household that can feel incredibly intense and so you don't wanna drop the ball. You're scared that if you let go or you stand still, everything's gonna fall apart. And that was true for me. I felt if I don't stop i'm gonna lose something. Something is going to fall apart. I'm gonna have less than I do now, and I can't risk that. So I was like hyper alert all the time. And that's not healthy.

James 24:04

So that, so is that to do with the chase. The chase for external things where the chase for happiness. The chase for joy, the chase for nice cars, riches, whatever it is. Okay

MaryAnne 24:20

yeah, absolutely.

James 24:21

Sorry, go on.

MaryAnne 24:22

I was just gonna say, I was just gonna say it, it sh in that mode it shows up as over responsibility and hyper vigilance. It's the the mental rehearsal where you just can't switch off. And that, that feeling is again, is, if I drop the ball, then everything else is going to drop. And most people. On a leadership level. Most people don't call that stress. They just think that's the standard, that's how they need to behave, but that isn't normal.

James 24:53

I went for the new year. I did a four day retreat, and part of the retreat you did, I don't do they often, but I did yoga twice a day and in the past. I found yoga to be for me, hard work, slow, boring. So what I did instead was to embody fun. So I'd allow myself to do the yoga to moves. And when I started feeling a little bit like, oh, come on. Speed up. Hurry up hurry up. I myself to. Go into the part of the body that for me, in that moment was fun. And to sit there as I'm doing this stuff. And what I noticed was a is a faint smiles like to come across to my face and I started to actually enjoy it. Even the two and a half hour sessions I would enjoy doing it. And that shows the power of actually, rather than logically trying to think it, embodying it.

MaryAnne 26:00

Absolutely. And that's the thing because that comes through play. It comes through your natural expression to just relax and just be in the presence with whatever you're doing and take it for what it is. And just allowing yourself to be curious. That's a, an important piece. Curiosity. Curiosity and play leads to joy. It leads to. It leads to a fulfillment that you can't get numbing. So alcohol, shopping, overeating over exercising, social media, doom, scrolling, all the tools that we have available. That is suppressing the play. And so people are thinking those things are play, but that's not play at all because it's actually pulling you out of your body. It's not letting you stay in, you are literally moving out of your own energy, whereas play you are literally holding your energy in and you are. You are feeling what is moving through you without realizing, and that's why creativity is so good, because whether you're drawing or painting or dancing or cooking or gardening or whatever it is that brings you back into a presence and keeps your energy with you. And it allows for joy to come out. And I remember years ago, I. I read this book called the Artist's Way. It is a fantastic book. Highly recommend, but it just, I'll give you a warning though, that it will turn your world a little bit upside down, but in a good way. But it is a fantastic book because I was blogging back when it was cool to do that many years ago, and. I was getting blocked. Oh I just, I wasn't finding any inspiration. I was getting really frustrated and I found that book. And what you have to do is take yourself on an artist date every week. So doing something that you don't normally do. You have to think about what, what used to bring you joy as a kid creatively. So I used to like to paint. I like photography and drawing. And so because I'm one of tho those people that just tell me what to do and I'll do it just to get me to the end goal. And that was the program I was running back then. So I thought I'll just go to the$2 shop and buy a canvas and some paints and who cares? And I'll just get this task done for this week. And I started painting and I was like, oh my God, I love this. I love this. What? Why haven't I been doing this? And then all of a sudden I was painting more regularly, like just actively painting. And then I ended up loving it so much that I ended up. Creating a whole collection, and I was exhibiting in Melbourne, in in Australia. I was exhibiting across the state and who, who would've thought that action would've led to that and that, that piece of work. That first collection was about healing the divine masculine. And how that connects to this work now is I am now working with men at a high, very high level, and I'm helping them heal the parts and stand still with the parts that they're struggling with internally. And it is the exact same thing. It's just a different outlet, but that. The work is the same, and so it was just a different expression, but I didn't know that then, and my family thought I was going around the bend. They were like, what do you mean you're painting now? Like, where did this come from? But it did. And of course, my. My creative surge for writing came back, but this went on for 12 weeks. And so each week you have to do something different and something by yourself. You can't take someone with you. You have to take yourself on an artist date, and it is fantastic. And in the morning you have to you have to write three pa three a, four pages of a brain dump, and you would think. In the morning, like, how much have you got to say? But there's a lot of junk to get out, and it's amazing how much your brain is going into. I feel tired, I don't wanna do this. I can't be bothered with the day. Oh, I don't wanna deal with that person. I don't wanna go to that meeting or. I feel a bit nervous about this. And so you journal it out and it's like you just clear it out at the beginning of the day. And honestly, by that 12th week I felt like a completely new person. So if you want a. Another opportunity for major transformation, highly recommend. And I've read that book three times now, and every time it did the exact same thing. So there was another big shift, but that first one was, yeah, pretty epic because I didn't know what was coming. And yeah, if you wanna try, I say go for it.

James 31:09

I have started doing a little bit of creativity because I with Cora each week. We, as we're going through the coaching session, we're getting out, stuff's just flowing outta me and I'm coming up with these new concepts, new ideas I might create a load of cards, trust cards, so people can pull a card each day to do trust. I might, and I also created a frequency box. Sorry, I love frequency box. So you'll put stuff in about what you love about yourself or your day, and then when you're feeling a little bit down, you can pull something at the bottom. So I'm, yeah, starting to, I'm starting to utilize all that and it's coming through flick and fast. You mentioned healing the divine masculine. Can you go into that a little bit more please?

MaryAnne 31:56

Yeah, so that, that came through because that's what I was healing within myself. So my relationships with men have been challenging to say the very least in the past. And so in order for me to. To come to this work, I needed to heal those aspects. But through my healing, I found a deep compassion for the masculine within myself.'cause everyone's got the feminine and the masculine, but also the masculine presence that I have had in my life. And that, that's not just with family or relationships, but even. Even with the patriarchy as a whole, the government, that's all masculine energy. So in all any authority figures, bosses, and so forth, it was looking at and reviewing the impact that had on me. And through that healing and through that painting, I was able to release those emotions. I was able to release the despair, the deep grief the longing the rage. So much rage, the, all of those like deep emotions that. Really challenging. I was able to pull that out and transform that into these artworks. And as a result, e each piece really told its own story. And there was, there's one piece in particular. One of my friends brought the piece. She I painted it with my eyes closed. And when I opened my eyes, it looked like two black lungs that had gold all the way through it. Like just, they were like so black, but the gold was sitting on the top. And in the morning I woke up and. The gold had seeped into the black, so it literally had absorbed it. And aesthetically I'll put the gold back on, like I did another layer of it. But that piece held such significant transformation energetically and the outside of it looked like it was in the shape of a love heart. It just, it you couldn't. To paint like that and for it to transform in that way and to look like lungs, but also look like a love heart at the same time was so epic. And that's just one of the pieces. Some of them look like. You could see the inner journey and the transformation. Some of them you could see the cycles, the the under. The undercurrent of the energy moving before that full release, and you can as the pieces went on you can see the respite and relief and the breakthrough and the healing around that aspect. It ignited a pathway for me. So much so that I started recording videos. This was probably back in 2016. I started recording videos about. I'll put'em, we'll put them on YouTube and it was about how women can support men and the you can imagine. Back then, this was before the Me Too and all the things I was getting nearly a thousand views for each of those videos. But there were no comments, good or bad.'cause I think people are too scared to say anything to me because they knew I was talking a truth. But, it was crickets. No one was responding. But I was saying we need to support men, especially because they've been on the receiving end of the toxic patriarchy as well. It's not just us, but obviously women have had a lot of resistance to that and still do, and you can see the polarization with feminism and all of that, which, we don't need to get into, but, for me, I felt so much compassion as a result of the healing that I did, that I wanted to support men because I could see the gap, I could see it there, I could see the opportunity, and I did probably about six months of those videos and it the same thing again week on week. Still nothing. Like nearly a thousand views every time. No response, no traction, no recognition, no attention, no nothing. That's what I was feeling. And I got really frustrated and like a lunatic. I deleted all the videos and threw all of that into the bin and went, nah, this doesn't mean anything to anyone. I'm having no impact. And I,'cause I was running a program where I was self abandoning and of course this was before the joy piece'cause I was still healing and obviously, but had I continued on, I would be like the Brene Brown now. Yeah. I, that. That's like the, you can hear so many people talking about that side of things now. So many. And it's so good. I've interviewed men who were doing that work on my podcast left and right over the last three seasons. That's the work now. But I got impatient. I, it was ahead of its time, but I didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't allowing the sovereignty of what I was seeing to stand still and to be present with it. And so I created chaos in my own life. And so now knowing all of that and seeing all of that has made this work even more important to me because it's another extension. It's just come out in a different way. And I'm even more. I've even, I've got more knowledge and more strength and more learning and more capacity to help on a much deeper level than I did even before. Yeah, it was an interesting time.

James 37:36

Yeah, it's, it sounds it because it's, I think. I've noticed myself sometimes that these podcasts I've got, this will be, by the time this comes out, I think it'll be the 83rd episode, and you get to a point where you might get a few views or. 20 views, 50 views. Thinking to yourself, you think to yourself, come on, people. Stop viewing it. But it's that idea, you gotta into yourself, the identity of yourself, who's already in that spot, who's got millions of views of each episode, and have that patience and trust and it's coming.

MaryAnne 38:17

Yeah. Absolutely. And it's a, it is not the first time that has happened to me, but it is the most recent significant time. So I remember that and I think I'm not doing that again. I won't. And so for me, that's why Legacy is such a big piece. For me, and it's why I wanna work with, and I do work with legacy driven CEOs because it's more than just about the now. It's like what I, we wanna create something that's lasting and that they understand the impact that they are carrying, not just for themselves, not just for their families, not just for community and their staff, but just, GL globally what this, what impact they are having. And it is, it needs to be considered. And I don't, I, I don't I refuse to work with leaders who are just after profits. I'm not interested in that. Or the super quick wins. I'm not a churn and burn, business advisor. That's not this work. It is it takes its own course and its own path. And the beauty of working with many is the their brain is. Men's brains are so completely different from the female brain, and I saw this over and over again in the kinesiology space. Women's brains is like a ball of wires mixed together. Like just the, everything is intricate and everything is touching the next wire. It's complex and the male brain is not like that at all. And so when I used to treat clients in kinesiology, as soon as they understood the concept, it was like, okay, done. Yep. I can release it, I can let it go. I've got it. And they were able to move forward quickly, and in one circumstance, one of my clients had attempted to take his life and within two weeks. Of working intensely with him. He was well back from the edge of that, and within 12 months, 35 people close to him were my clients because they couldn't understand how that transformation was even possible. But then I had a female client who had a breakup, and 12 months later we're still dealing with the same things because. Of the complexity of how else it's connected to the millions of other experiences that they've had. So when I work with business leaders at this level, even though the work can be intense, it's, it is quick, but it's not for a quick win and to just, treat this flippantly. It is with reverence and respect, and it is for. Appreciation of how long things are going to take. And it might be short and it might be a little longer, but yeah, the transformation tells its own path. But yeah men tend to move much faster than women do.

James 41:10

Just before we finish I want to take a big deep dive into drug and energy. Because you mentioned when we had a chat about energy. How does that come through for you?

MaryAnne 41:24

So that's a very personal, spiritual aspect. It's not something that I share really publicly. I, you'll see the little symbol. I've got little symbols of it in sneaky spots on my social media and on my website. But when I was meditating and when I had that near death experience I felt. And saw the dragon energy almost initiate me, if you will. And so I did a lot of meditation around that and with them and I, I. I was born the year of the Dragon, so that has always been a reference point for me. But when I turned 13 my grandmother who, who passed away not long after that gifted me a teapot with Lucky The Dragon, and it's hand painted and it was my favorite tea set and I, she knew that I wanted it and she gave that to me for my birthday. And now that might seem a bit weird for a 13-year-old kid, but for me it was everything and. So d drag, the dragon has always been there. It's there without me knowing that it's been there. And the fire element in particular has been really important for me because. I was foregoing my personal power. I was I didn't have strong boundaries. I had to learn how to put all of those things in. I didn't know how to allow my creativity or when it, when I was creative, it was like. I couldn't control the fire, if you will. And working with the Dragons has really taught me how to temper that fire and not when I was younger, I like, with when I would get mad after suppressing my emotions, I'd wanna burn everything and everyone to a crisp, like that fire, like

James 43:11

rah.

MaryAnne 43:12

And so I know how to use that energy now and how to alchemize it for my work, for the way that I connect with other people. How to fuel the energy and the environments that I'm in, and how to bring that into my expression so that that's what happened there. But it is it was an induction around that near death experience.

James 43:36

It's funny because I've say the last six months I've really, but probably a bit longer than that. I've really connected with Dragon, but it's always been there because for the last 15 years I've been the firefighter. And since that I've been, I was a scout. I was playing with fire. So there's always that connection. Yeah I didn't realize it. And obviously I feel like dragons come through healing initially for me, but it's come. Yeah. And it's funny, I was in Glastonbury in the uk probably about last week, and I bought. Four little dragons, the three little green dragons, and one red dragon. Now the four dragons for me represent fire, wind, water, and air. And it's funny how the other three are all green, and the fourth one is red, which I feel like I am stepping into the fire aspect of the dragon. And I feel like as I progress, I will probably find the blue one, which represents water or another color. I don't know what air's gonna be, and I just feel like I'm almost being initiated initially through fire. And I'll grab, I'll gravitate around to the other elements.

MaryAnne 45:00

They're so sacred as a animal totem. They are so sacred. And I feel grateful that's that, that is the animal totem for me too. And I, there is, a intuitive nature about them that is so incredibly rare. They're not like any other animal in any way, shape or form. And the way that they move, the way that they trust, the way that they know that they can protect themselves without having to be aggressive. They just know how to move. And the fire aspect is. What a lot of people avoid because they, we, depending on your generation, it, we were, I know for me, I was told I wasn't allowed to be mad. I wasn't allowed to be sad. I definitely wasn't allowed to be mad and I, and so I suppressed all, I learned how to suppress all of those emotions. And I remember going to see a tail west and he checked my chi and said, your fire element is like the pilot light is. Nearly out. This is not great. And so you need to, and he gave me some strategies to work with that element. And so that was like another, this was before, way before the the dragons came in, but that. They were like little keys for me to acknowledge, oh, this is why this is what I've gotta step further into. This is where the connection is. This is why I feel depleted. This is why I don't feel inspired. This is why I don't feel that. I'm not feeling the joy. And given that they came in at a time where. This work came to life. And everything was around the joy. They're especially sacred and important. And I've got, this is my, I've got a little gold dragon that sits on my desk in front of me so that I can remember.'Cause it's easy in the day to day, we get busy and life. It keeps us distracted with all sorts of things, but I look at that every day and I, it's like my subconscious connects without me having to consciously think about it. And I love that you've got the, all of the elements around the dragon, but the fire is that missing piece. And I think in our. Society anger is so active at the moment. Everyone's rageful and opinionated and everyone's got something to say and that's a good thing, but it needs to be alchemized so that we can transform this world and not let it run. Riot and chaos.

James 47:35

Funny thing is, this weekend I am ruling a awakening Inner Dragon this weekend retreat day retreat.

MaryAnne 47:45

So cool.

James 47:46

Number one, first one of all. So it's exciting, but hoping the snow goes down a little bit because it's in the hills.

MaryAnne 47:55

Oh no. But maybe you need the snow. Maybe you need a fire in the snow. That would be cool.

James 48:01

Yeah. That's fire.

MaryAnne 48:01

Like Nordic style,

James 48:03

Nordic. That's quite cool. We got a fire ceremony at the end, which will be outside maybe. You're right.

MaryAnne 48:09

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because just

James 48:12

make sure everybody gets there.

MaryAnne 48:14

I've got I've got Viking lineage, so that's right up my alley. If you could teleport me, I'd be there in a heartbeat.

James 48:21

Yeah. If after, after organize. If you're ever in the uk, let me know. And I organize one.

MaryAnne 48:28

Absolutely. How cool would that be?

James 48:30

Be absolutely amazing. Can we finish off? Can you tell us. What you do and how people can get in contact.

MaryAnne 48:40

Yeah, absolutely. I work privately with CEOs and I diagnose and resolve the internal pressure and the patterns that shape how they lead and how they. How that transforms their culture, their trust, their decision making, and how they actually function. Most leadership work focuses on behavior or emotions or systems, but our work on the energetic architecture that those outcomes depend on. The work is private but the impact is structural and for anyone who wants to learn more about. What I do the best way is through my website, which is maryanne kadi.com or through my social media. And it's my name again, Maryanne Kadi. You can find out some more that way and I'm happy to answer any questions anyone might have.

James 49:30

Thank you very much, Maryanne.

MaryAnne 49:34

Thanks so much for having me, James.