Ep. 3.1: Quiet Confidence Discovered - Andy Doeden: The Golf Years

Part 1 of 2 

What makes some people able to rise from obscurity to achievement while others with similar talent fall short? In this candid conversation with Andy Doeden, we delve into how a small-town golfer from Fargo, North Dakota, developed the mindset that propelled him from public courses to professional competition.

Andy shares vivid memories from his early days—collecting golf balls at age 7 to sell from a roadside stand, delivering papers in -30° weather, and practicing bunker shots when everyone else took shelter from the rain. These formative experiences weren't just about golf; they were building the character foundation that would define his approach to challenges throughout life.

The conversation takes us through Andy's journey competing with childhood rival Shane McMenamy, his collegiate career at TCU under the street-smart Coach Monigill, and his pursuit of professional golf. Throughout these stories emerges a philosophy that transcends sports: excellence doesn't come from talent alone, but from preparation that nobody witnesses, embracing difficult conditions that others avoid, and developing what Andy calls "quiet confidence."

Perhaps most compelling are Andy's insights about competition—how he could be fiercely determined to win while maintaining genuine kindness toward opponents. His encounters with future PGA stars, such as Charles Howell III and Camilo Villegas, reveal how closely he observed excellence around him, absorbing lessons that would shape his own development.

Whether you're interested in golf, leadership, or personal growth, Andy's journey offers valuable wisdom about finding your edge and making the most of the opportunities life presents. What's your equivalent of "practicing in the rain" when everyone else is seeking shelter?

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:00

Hey, what's up everybody? Nick here, I hope you're all doing well. Thanks for working your way back here, episode three of the Time and Energy podcast. So excited to have you back. And thank you first of all to all of you for sending over all the nice notes and emails and texts of encouragement and congratulations, which also feels a little bit weird to be congratulated doing something. That's just sort of uh, sort of fun on the side, but uh, sincerely. Thank you so much for all the words of encouragement. It's, it's really been, uh, it's really been a blast.

Welcome to Episode Three

Speaker 1 0:29

We were able to post the first episode with Josh persons, uh, last Friday, uh, during the masters and um, I figured there'd probably be a few people roaming X for information on the golf tournament uh from time to time. So, uh, might be able to get a few folks to check it out, and sure enough. So then we were able to post our second episode with David Schultz on Sunday of the masters and man, what a great day that was. I had a lot of thoughts, a lot of emotions going through me that day. First and foremost, it was the first time that I really had an opportunity to engage with my three and a half year old son William, on a master's Sunday. I have such fond memories over the years of that afternoon being such an awesome, awesome time with my dad and my grandpa. It is almost like a national holiday and I thought it was really funny. As you scrolled some of the social media last week, you realized or at least I realized that I wasn't alone as a middle-aged male who perhaps cried a few tears of joy, and in fact my son William was saying all week. Last week, rory was crying tears of joy, daddy, wasn't he? And I said, yeah, buddy, and he said daddy was crying tears of joy too, wasn't he? So I did write a post on this on timeandenergyco.

Speaker 1 1:46

You can go to the blog, check it out, as well as some of the other blog posts that are in there. You're just going to find some things on leadership, self-improvement, anything related to growth and really what the entire endeavor of the Time and Energy podcast is all about. And just the Time and Energy umbrella. You'll also see some influential articles. And just the time and energy umbrella you also see, you know, some influential articles. You'll see some influential podcasts and books really is just a way to curate a lot of the things that I've done over time and then you could also learn about the time and energy sales system as well as the time and energy philosophy from a leadership perspective.

Speaker 1 2:20

Again, it's just been really, really fun to put this together and really start taking a lot of these things that I've been doing, as I've been teaching, coaching, training, doing some executive coaching and mentorship on the side, and that's really really filling my bucket the opportunity to travel and have conversations with individuals and organizations. On my free time. I use that in air quotes, but it's really just been fantastic to learn a lot and I'm just a very, very lucky guy. So please check out the site timeandenergyco, please provide your feedback. Again, it's really there for all of us to seek those out and continue to just have some leadership, self-improvement, things like that. By no means do I have all the answers, but with all your help, I think you know, together we can sort of get there.

Speaker 1 3:09

So, without any further ado, just want to introduce our third guest on the Time and Energy podcast, this individual I've known for 35 years.

Speaker 1 3:17

We go back to, you know, playing baseball when we were kids, to golf, to tennis. You know it didn't connect for about 15, 20 years after that and then came back together when I joined Discovery Benefits in 2013. Individuals taught me a lot about, you know, being a leader, being somebody that others can count on. Taught me a lot about what it's like to be a dad and, like you know, truly. You know give yourself to your family in a way that I've just never really experienced and seen from a man before. And if you are interested in learning a little bit about how you can have a competitive spirit and how you can just grit your teeth all day long and try to win, but also be an impactful individual from a leadership perspective that does it in a quiet, confident way, these next two episodes are for you. This is part one of episode three of the Time and Energy podcast. I'm excited to introduce Mr Andy Doden. Good morning.

Speaker 2 4:50

Good morning.

Speaker 1 4:50

How are you today?

Speaker 2 4:52

I'm doing well, thank you. Just got back from Southern California with the family, palm Desert yeah, we've been going down there for a good amount of years now and it gets more enjoyable, more enjoyable each year. The kids get older and, uh yeah, we had a sweet, sweet time as a family. Good, Played a little golf a little golf, yep Hiking uh. Resting reading uh is a good week.

Speaker 1 5:14

What are you reading right now?

Meeting Andy Doden

Speaker 2 5:16

Um, I just finished a novel, so I we joke about this. Uh, uh, I am. I've not been a reader. My wife, katie, has influenced me very well in reading, as of other people in my life, but it's typically been business books or leadership books. I joke about it, but this might've been the first novel I've ever finished. In high school I would read the CliffsNotes and try to take the test and get the easy way out.

Speaker 1 5:43

I can relate to that. I can relate to that.

Speaker 2 5:45

But yeah. So I read a novel and it was recommended to me, theo of Golden, and it's just about this 86-year-old man who wants to give back, and he, it's just a sweet story. It brought me to laughter, it brought me to tears, and so I've been buying it for people. So if anybody's yourself or anybody's- listening it's a good novel to read.

Speaker 1 6:07

Remind me again.

Speaker 2 6:08

Theo of golden. Okay, and uh, it's been a great encouragement to me over the last, uh, last couple of months here.

Speaker 1 6:16

Awesome. Well, um, I will put that in the show notes so that folks that are listening if they want to take a look at it.

Speaker 2 6:21

We'll put a, put a link and have them reach out to me and I'll buy it for him. I am that passionate about this book.

Speaker 1 6:26

Fantastic, all right, what else is on the list that you're going to buy for us?

Speaker 2 6:29

I don't know yet. It's early.

Speaker 1 6:33

Well, thank you for being here. I'm excited to to welcome longtime friend and colleague, andy Doden to the Time and Energy podcast here this morning. In interest of full disclosures, I feel like I've said a couple of times, uh on the show and in our third episode now here with Andy. Uh, the first two are individuals that I've been friends with for a really long time and Andy's, of course, no different. I think about, um, you know, we're both about the same age. I think, uh think, 10 days apart, if I'm not mistaken. That's right. So about 45 years old, going back man, 30 years, 35 years maybe.

Speaker 2 7:10

Yeah.

Speaker 1 7:11

Probably 35 years playing baseball together.

Speaker 2 7:13

back in the day we went up and played my last baseball tournament. We went and played in the Prairie Rose games.

Speaker 1 7:18

That's right.

Speaker 2 7:19

And I thought I was. Well I didn't. Early on I thought I was decent at baseball. And then I got up to that tournament and the the. I didn't swing the bat once. I just stood there, watched three strikes go by and I went to the bench. I was scared I was going to get hit. So I went back and practiced my chipping and putting the next day and figured out where I wanted to be.

Speaker 1 7:36

Well, sometimes that's all it takes, right, it's just an experience of one thing, and just Now I know I don't want to do that. That's not for me. I do remember. I mean we must have been 10 or 11 years old and we got up there and Grand Forks Air Force Base, I remember, had a team and it seemed like all of those kids looked like they were about 17,. Big, strong, could throw hard, run fast, and they hit the ball harder than I'd ever seen before.

Speaker 2 8:00

I was playing center field that game and I think I threw out my arm. I was playing center field that game and I think. I threw out my arm. I got so much action. Yeah, they were, it was. It was a fascinating team. We didn't have a chance.

Speaker 1 8:10

Well, the relationship goes back a long way and that's why I'm so excited to have you here, sit down in this type of forum and and and look back on on a relationship that has transcended, you know, personal, uh things, um, professional items, and then you know sort of coming full circle to to try to recap it as well as well as we can here today, I know I'm just genuinely fascinated and interested, and I know many others are too. So thanks for taking the time.

Speaker 2 8:35

Yeah, thank you, and I uh, I'm really excited You're starting this, this website, blog, um podcast and it's um. You have a wealth of knowledge over the years and you have a deep passion and value. You can add both just individuals, and I'm confident someday this is going to turn into a hobby, business or a full-time business for you, with the amount of knowledge and, then again, passion for training and developing people.

Speaker 1 9:01

Well, I appreciate that I appreciate that You've always been a huge champion of mine and it's it's hard for me to describe how much that that means to me, but I, uh do have a passion for it, and one of the things that's been um feeding that that passion is a desire to um continue to to learn and grow, and I would say that that is one area that you know, as we work together for over 12 years, starting at Discovery Benefits and then, of course, onto WEX. That you know, I believe that you've taught me is is just that you know we've never arrived.

Speaker 2 9:35

Well, I don't have it all figured out and I'll start there. But at a young age, well, I and I think one of the through lines is that I have always been surrounded with unbelievable people and that has been a deep blessing to me over the years. The people that have influenced me, from my mom and dad to my dad's work ethic, to his loyalty to a company that he's worked for for, I think, 50 plus years. Now he's still there. He has a passion for writing. My mom's a deep feeler, empathetic got a lot of good traits from her as well. And then I'd go to my brother, about 500 yards from here we're sitting in North Fargo, not too far from Edgewood, and he's always allowed me to tag along. I'm six years younger, like that's a pretty big difference, right and uh, but I remember the like I.

Speaker 2 10:32

I have a few significant memories of like falling in love with the sport of golf, and one was at the back of the range. I don't think there's two greens anymore, but there were when I was about nine years old and him and Jeff lamp went out there almost dark at one point and allowed me to come ride my bike up there and chip, and I was dinking around and I hold one out and my brother I still remember I had like a. It was a very short club but he'd he, he wanted to know how far it was from the hole. So he'd taken and he'd measure it in the shaft lengths and it was like 32 shaft lengths. I'm like I just hold out for him, you know whatever. And that was just a meaningful you know moment for me.

Speaker 1 11:10

How old were you at that time? I was eight or nine.

Speaker 2 11:12

Okay, very young.

Early Golf Influences and Competitive Spirit

Speaker 2 11:13

And he was just getting into high school about that time, and you know anyway. So those are some early just influences. And then you take that, like you realize maybe I've got something here right, a God-given ability, um, the way I'm designed and wired and I want to go use that to the fullest. And you just this work ethic, um, this innate desire to compete. I've always just loved competing um, healthy in many ways, probably unhealthy in some ways as well, but it's like I'm going to go. I'm going to go work and try to develop myself because I know I've got something. I've got something there, you know.

Speaker 1 11:53

So well, what a great memory of, of playing with your brother and having him tag along. I mean, had that not happened, gosh knows, right, what sort of um, what sort of pads you would have been down, at least from a golf perspective, right, I mean so, your, your brother, dan, would you say six, six years older? Okay, fargo Shanley ended up playing some golf out at Wyoming. Yes, right, okay, yeah, um, still see him. I know we've. We had an opportunity in 2019 to take a trip out to Ireland and, um, he was able to join us. Uh, I was always impressed as that week played on. I don't know if any man in the history of an Ireland trip uh, dan Doden I'm talking about now has had more orders of, uh, uh, what was it?

Speaker 1 12:38

Fish and chips and chowder and chowder, and chowder and Guinness. It was just. It was like clockwork, it was perfect.

Speaker 2 12:45

He had his routine that week and it was, uh, that's a memory. You know that, that those types of trips are just fascinating, but, uh, yeah, I think I think, if I can get to where maybe you're going with that. As you know, dan, um, we we still do get together. Um, he's still passionate about golf. He's got three kids now that will be have played or played college golf.

Speaker 2 13:05

We're at a little different stage and where our kids are at, but we, we try to get together as often and cheer each other on like crazy, and he's offered a lot of wisdom, um, in my life, but I think one of the you know I want to get to this idea of like we had a hotbed of junior golfers come out of Fargo and I don't know if anybody's spoken to this at all, but it's like this started in my mind with a guy named Jason Lamp who grew up on Elm street here and he went to Texas Lutheran and he kind of set the stage that, like, somebody from Fargo can go play golf somewhere, right, and everybody knew what he'd come back and he'd win the KX amateur every year.

Speaker 2 13:40

I've got great memories of watching him. And then all of a sudden you've got Mark Halverson, lane Brantner, jeff Lamp.

Speaker 1 13:51

Dan.

Speaker 2 13:51

Doden, I think, Mike Baldwin, you just I don't know I'm probably missing some people there, but but that's the group that I think defined and like broke through. Everybody broke through a new barrier in my mind. Like Jason got out there, he tried to play pro. Uh, Jeff Lane, Mark, all tried to play pro. They had good college careers, right. They broke down barriers, they set the bar. You know you're like, okay, if they can do it, I can do it. And then you just see the trickle down effect of what ultimately kind of came together for Tommy and now he's winning PGA tour events and I think it's just the, the. It's not Morehead hockey-esque, I don't think, but there's something there that is pretty cool that I don't know that. I have tried my best to bring that all together for people, but it would be neat to get that group of people together and share some memories and reminisce, because everybody in my mind had an impact on the other person to what was possible.

Speaker 1 14:46

That's really well said. I had not, I had not gone maybe that far back in history of of Fargo golf to think about the Jason lamps of the world. Um, of course I know Jeff. Um, you know, not, not really well, but if you know, know, know, jeff and Dan of course, and Lane and those folks but it reminds me of, was it Roger Bannister who broke the four-minute mile? That's right, you know. And for the longest time it's just like nobody can do this, nobody can do this, and it's just not possible. And then he does it, and then you know, all of a sudden, everyone else starts to do it. And you know, all of a sudden, everyone else starts, starts to do it. So it brings in, you know, mindset and and just what's what's possible? If you can visualize something like that, right, so would you say. So was it. Was it, dan, then, that that really kind of got you into the game of golf specifically?

Speaker 2 15:38

Yeah, Dan, and my uncle, Jim, who just just passed away a couple of weeks ago actually.

Speaker 2 15:42

But yeah, yeah and uh, he's a, he's a great man but he influenced me greatly. Um, my dad wrote in the obituary he was kind of the head of the golf and the Doden family, um, very proud, proud man and big supporter. Um, but yeah, dan, and then they would just allow me to play with them. So I think at that time we were at more at country club, right, and I got to. They all worked out there, but I got to get up at 6 30 AM and we'd, we'd, we'd play before they had to work, and like I get to compete with division one golfers at an early age and that that formed me greatly and like, allowed me to see what's, what does great look like. And, um, I've always watched and observed other people and I've learned so much from them, so I think that was a big influence.

Speaker 2 16:28

I think work ethic I had a paper out, my dad delivered 30 papers. I delivered 30 papers and you know you want to talk about developing perseverance and grit and work ethic. Wake up when it's negative 30 out and at 6 am, you know in january, and go deliver 30 papers, and so just some of that like, let's get after it and um, that that formed me as well. Just a simple paper out job. How old were you? I started in seventh grade so 12 13 years old.

Speaker 1 17:03

What kind of 12 or 13 year old does that?

Speaker 2 17:23

you can get paid like it was a hundred bucks a month, which is a lot to us, you know, at that point, and yeah, um, and then I'd have to go collect. You know, go collect, interact with people, like I always started to like, okay, I gotta sell something, try to get more people so I can make more money. And, um, yeah, that was one of my first sales jobs, I'd say the other first job creating work ethic was I'd go collect golf balls at el zagal. Um, there, a whole seven used to be a par four. People would duck, hook it or slice it into the weeds and I'd go find a bunch of balls. I'd come home I'd wash the balls, I'd scrub them, I'd put them in egg cartons and I'd go down to the end of 27th Avenue and Elm street and I'd say I have a, I have the sign still. Um, my mom has a picture with me holding the sign. It's on my desk right now. My first job ever before the paper out. Actually, golf balls 25 cents.

Speaker 1 18:07

I know that sign. Yeah, I didn't know that that was actually from your first sales job.

Speaker 2 18:12

That was it I was. I was that was before the paper out, but that was when I was, you know, seven, eight, nine years old. So, oh, that's fantastic yeah.

Speaker 1 18:21

So, so competitive spirit, I mean, well, let's just, let's idle back to work ethic, right? So instilled to you from your father in that regard. And then you know, you're, you're taught. I suppose maybe subconsciously at the time, I would think, right, it's probably not on the nose when you're 12, what your dad is trying to accomplish by exposing you to this type of stuff. But still, even even though your father exposed you to that, that opportunity to do the paper out and meet people, and I mean, I'm sure in hindsight, right, that's some of your, those are some of your takeaways, but it still requires somebody to actually get out of the bed at 12 years old, at six 30 in the morning, to do it, right, do you think that was just innate? You know, like, this is just the job that needs to be done, so I'm going to go do it. Or did you believe at that time that there was, that you were even then working towards something maybe bigger or greater?

Speaker 2 19:17

I, I think, probably working toward something bigger. I didn't love it like it wasn't easy, you know. You do it, though, because it needs to get done, and umness, uh, is there in my family as well and I'm going to go. You tell me to go do something. I'm going to go do it and I'm going to get it done and I'm going to grit my teeth and that type of attitude, so, but I, yeah, I think, um, I think that was part of who I, who I was. I'll talk about this a little bit but it's like this underdog from Fargo. I wanted to go. I always imagined something bigger.

Speaker 1 19:49

Yeah.

Speaker 2 19:50

Always and I dreamt about it. I would on some nice December winter days. I can still see myself on Fifth Avenue. There I would. My parents would be having a dinner party and I'd go turn on the light in the backyard and it would be nice fluffy snow and I'd pretend like I was hitting bunker shots in the snow. Just, I'm going to go get better. We had a walk-up attic and my dad. It was a crinkly wooden floor with all kinds of different breaks and my dad cut a hole in it. We put a Folgers coffee tin in it and I would try to make putts and use my imagination. You know, getting into high school he added onto our basement, we lifted up our house, he added a ping pong room and then two cups with holes and I thought, man, this is life. I get to go watch NFL on Sundays in the middle of the winter and putt and hear the ball hit in the bottom of the cup and I just wanted to go do something with my life.

Speaker 1 20:42

What point did you realize golf was something special for you, that you might be maybe a little bit better than most, or this is something you can be really good at?

Speaker 2 20:54

I played golf and baseball until about fifth grade and I remember we were a very good t-ball team. We would dominate people t-ball and I would be keeping score in my head. Nobody else knew the score, but I knew we were winning. Well, that came all the way ahead when we started pitching. And Eric Grandy, who you know was in. North Fargo. Um, you were probably on this team and I was on a on a Holy spirit type team.

Speaker 1 21:16

Um, oh yeah, we didn't like you, we didn't like the Holy spirit, no, no.

Learning Discipline Through Paper Routes

Speaker 2 21:20

And and we lost for the first time and it was on Mickelson. I know the diamond it was on. I drive by to Oak Grove and I bring the kids to school and I think about that loss and I got on my bike. I didn't talk to anybody, I went on my bike and I got to our back porch on Fifth Street and I just wept. I hated losing. Okay, I hated it, but we lost, so I had to accept it. I had to accept it, I had to deal with it. It produces perseverance. You lose. Well, anyway, after that season I was golfing, my mom would drop me off at 7am every day up here at Edgewood and I'd get picked up at eight more days at night. More days than not.

Speaker 1 21:55

Right.

Speaker 2 21:56

And, um, it was at that point where, like, nope, I'm going to go, I'm going to go golf, and my dad, my mom, stayed at home. My dad worked his tail off in the sports department and grew you know, grew his career. But we didn't come from a terrible, terribly a lot of money I guess I'd say it that way and so I didn't have money to go buy range balls at Edgewood. It was a buck 50, a bucket, but I I rarely hit range balls and I didn't. I didn't make it in my golf career because of my ball striking. I made it in my golf career because of a hundred yards and in, and I only was good at a hundred yards and in cause, I got to hang out at Edgewood every day and chip and putt and chip and putt and chip and putt, cause it was free.

Speaker 1 22:39

Yep.

Speaker 2 22:40

And that that's a beautiful memory for me, um, to be able to be able to like, look back and I still go up at Edgewood. It's a better facility today than it was back then. But like that's and I, I didn't have any money for lunch, I should say that as well. And so I had two guys that I'd start gambling pretty early, and in sixth grade I'd start to gamble with the Rangers, Ted Kennedy.

Speaker 1 23:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2 23:03

And I'm missing the other guy's name. I'll think of it, but a large bucket of crispy fries behind the bar. There was 75 cents at the time and they made good fries. They did make good fries and I knew I had to go make money so that Ted Kennedy would or Bill Nygaard was the other one.

Speaker 1 23:23

There we go. Yes, bill Nygaard.

Speaker 2 23:28

Kennedy would. Or Bill Bill Nygaard was the. There we go. Yes, they would. Somehow I'd win 75 cents off these Rangers and I'd get to go have a crispy bucket of fries and it was the best thing ever, with just a bunch of ketchup.

Speaker 1 23:36

So that's an. That's an immediate, immediate outcome of working hard with a goal right. So you're setting a goal, in this case, to just eat lunch, right, without any money in your pocket. So you've got to figure out okay, how am I going to make some money out of this deal? You find your marks, as it were, your targets of where the pockets maybe have some money in it. You go, targets of of where where the pockets, uh, maybe have some money in it. You go and you uh. So what? You challenge them to, like a putting contest or something.

Speaker 2 24:12

Yeah, and they were kind to me. I should say my parents probably gave me some money. I'm I'm embellishing a little bit there, but like I, I started to like say I'm going to compete, to compete, I'm going to play for a couple of quarters and then I'm going to go get the reward of French fries. I, lee Peterson was another guy.

Speaker 1 24:25

I don't know if you know Lee Peterson but I, I.

Speaker 2 24:28

I remember asking him on the first tee one night I got paired up with him Do you want to play for money? We see each other every now and again. He'll remind me that there's a guy from Chicago. Forget his name, my dad will know it he I asked him if he wanted to gamble. Like this guy, we just get paired together. You want to gamble? He was at our wedding, katie and I's wedding Stayed in touch with him. He sent me like a driver, like with a graphite shaft that I used. Amazing story. But yeah, I just I just love the gap.

Speaker 2 24:55

I don't offhand.

Speaker 1 24:56

That's okay.

Speaker 2 24:58

My dad will.

Speaker 1 24:59

Yeah.

Speaker 2 24:59

But yeah, just these. I wasn't scared, I guess, to ask you know I was I was. I had a, didn't have this quiet confidence at the time. I thought I was better than I was, probably. But just like, let's go have fun. Compete.

Speaker 1 25:11

This is part of what golf is, and you know so anyway what a great memory, uh, lee Peterson I uh, when I was working out at Rose Creek, uh, back in the early two thousands 2000s, he would play in all the events out there too.

Speaker 1 25:26

So between Edgewood and Rose Creek you got to meet so many people that had so many different experiences in life, and I think one of the things that golf provides anybody whether it's an up-and-comer such as yourself, who had an abundance of success locally and nationally, or just anybody that enjoys it as a hobby you know golf is such a great game and there's a lot of the sort of the trite comments around like oh, it's a metaphor for life and when you really look at it it's not tried at all. I mean, it truly does have a lot of tangential things to it around. You know communication. You know if you're playing with a partner collaboration pumping people up, you know communication. You know if you're playing with a partner collaboration pumping people up, you know having to uh really just forget about the results in the moment and and continue to move forward. So, as you think about how your golf career as a um, as a youngster, what? What were your biggest takeaways? What are your biggest learnings?

Speaker 2 26:24

Um, that's a. That's a good question. Let me take a minute to just just process that. What were your biggest takeaways? What are your biggest learnings? That's a. That's a good question.

Speaker 1 26:33

Let me take a minute to just just process that. My biggest learnings up through maybe eighth grade. Yeah, I'd say before, maybe you got into high school golf, like you know, and then maybe started traveling for some age.

Speaker 2 26:38

Well, I learned that, like if you find out your God given ability to go attack it. Yeah, um, golf produces deep character. It can, it does. It doesn't like your characters exposed Maybe it's a better way to put it. I mean that, um, you know, maybe I was disappointed in my baseball buddies. Uh, you know that we didn't beat long fellow, but like you're in control, you, you are the one that has to look yourself in the mirror. So what are you going to do about it? What are you going to go do to develop and get better, always been social and to be around people and to communicate and connect deeply with people? Golf affords that um ability, um to to. You know, you can use it as a platform to understand others, and so there are so many learnings there. And then the competition, of course, like you know, is there.

Speaker 1 27:37

So, yeah, so, moving into high school, it became evident very early from, from a distance, at least from my perspective. You know, being the same age as at Fargo North, here at Fargo Shanley, you know you were the guy, you, you, you became the guy very early and that became known as, as people got to know you and who you were, as you were playing in high school events and you know you got the Ironman over in Detroit lakes. You've got you know a few different. You know that. The FM all city. You know the FM junior tour, a few different. You know that the FM all city. You know the FM junior tour, um, it was a.

Speaker 1 28:14

It was interesting in hindsight and retrospect, looking back from my perspective, as somebody maybe who, um, you know, played in those types of things, but you know, maybe it wasn't as committed, it certainly wasn't as committed as as you were to see, just candidly, how much better than everybody else you were. So when you think about then transitioning into high school where you're playing with guys that are a little bit older and some of the names that you mentioned previously, was there ever a point that you got humbled?

Speaker 2 28:51

I wasn't the yeah, so maybe I. In Fargo I was the only guy, but there was a very respectable opponent in Grand Forks, shane McMenemy. And um, here's, here's pride comes before the fall Right, and so we we go seventh grade. I make the varsity golf team Don Johnson one of my favorite people in the world was our coach.

Speaker 2 29:05

Yes, and, uh, he influenced me greatly, uh, in so many good ways. And our first I make the varsity team in seventh grade and our first meet is at Oxbow. We're playing 18 holes at Oxbow. Then we're going to go to Maple River it was a nine hole course at the time and we're going to go play nine holes there and I'm not kidding, it was blowing 30 to 40 miles an hour. I don't know if you were in that tournament or not, I don't know.

Speaker 1 29:31

I don't. I don't think so, but playing with Jay Bartley.

The Fargo Golf Scene and Breaking Barriers

Speaker 2 29:39

Okay, and it's a shotgun start. We start on hole 18 and I start I'm putting like crazy, I'm just making everything and it's windy and I'm managing somehow, and we get to hole 17. It's our last hole and, um, I've, I've hit a good drive and it's blown left to right and I'm, I'm, I'm four over par on this day, four over par on a blustery day, my first high school tournament. And instead of so I'm about 80 yards out and instead of trying to force a sand wedge up in the air, I bump and run a seven iron. It's like I was in Scotland already, I don't know I I take out a seven iron and I hit a little draw punch, shot from the middle of the fairway to 20 feet left of the hole. It's pins in the front right and I two putt for par, shoot 76.

Speaker 2 30:23

It it may have been the low round of the day, and I'm in seventh grade, and and and somebody says on the van ride over to Maple River hey, there's a seventh grader from Grand Forks that shot 79. I'm like, okay, that's a good round. So you know, pretty happy with how it played that morning. Jay Bartley's pumping my tires like crazy Couldn't believe it. Maybe he still remembers that story. I'm not sure. We go to Maple River and I shoot 52 on nine holes.

Speaker 2 30:53

So was I ever humbled? My first varsity meet? That day I was very proud and I was very humbled. So, yeah, that was a good day. And then I'd say, if I could continue on, shane McMenemy and I pushed each other like crazy. It was so healthy. He won the state tournament as an eighth grader at Boyd a Sioux and Wahpeton and we had gone back and forth that year. Um, there were other great players, of course, that that pushed us as well. But he won state as an eighth grader and I went back and I still remember I that day we got home from Wahpetton, I went straight to more country club and I started practicing. I did not like that feeling.

Speaker 1 31:36

Was it more of a desire to not lose to him, or that because you wanted to beat him?

Speaker 2 31:43

Um well, I didn't like losing to anybody. I wanted to win.

Speaker 1 31:49

And Shane was the same age. Right, it's the same age okay.

Speaker 2 31:52

so the if I so, so if I could maybe share another meaningful moment. So growing up at a public golf course, I think, is one of the healthiest things people can do, if you can get into this idea of public versus private. I joke with with katie. Katie went to und. Our son and our kids are the biggest UND hockey fans. You got to be careful what you wish for. They've got the most beautiful facilities. They've got as much money as they want. They play one of the toughest schedules in college hockey. They've got bunk beds in their locker room where you can go take a nap. They've got heating for your gloves and your skates. If they're sweaty they'll dry out quicker. They have missed the playoffs two of the last three years and that shouldn't happen, and I'm a big Bradbury fan. I know he just got fired. That's sad to me, but who knows if it's the right decision or not. You got to be careful what you wish for and you got to remember your upbringing and what got you to where you got, and I am so thankful that I got to have that experience at Edgewood at a public course.

Speaker 2 32:55

Sean Anderson's dad, Dick Anderson, was on the board at the Fargo Country Club and must have, I don't know heard about me. I don't know how this came about, but he had the foresight to say hey, we think Andy Doden has some potential. We're going to give his family an honorary membership at Fargo Country Club, and this was in eighth or ninth grade right in that time period. So I was at Edgewood for a good a while. Then we went over to Morad Country Club.

Speaker 2 33:22

My brother worked there and my dad joined and then all of a sudden, boom, we get to go play out at Fargo Country Club and I dreamt of that par three course. You want to talk about somebody who loves a short game and I would get to go play it every now and again. But to be able to go have the short game facility, the par three course, the course, that was a new world for me and something that Dick Anderson opened up. That really matured my game and I hadn't taken a golf lesson before then. No golf lessons. And then this individual, Peter Nervick, came alongside me and gave me some fundamentals to kind of work on and develop and um so you were completely self-taught up until what Eighth ninth grade.

Speaker 2 34:02

Yeah, yeah, maybe after ninth grade is when I saw Peter um for the first time.

Speaker 1 34:08

So and so the basics of golf mean just learn from your father, your uncle, your brother. You know I grip your stance here. I'd never worked on my grip.

Speaker 2 34:16

I think somebody said hey, you got a baseball grip, you got two options you you interlock or you overlap. Figured out, I interlocked, um, you know I what? What? Probably my biggest blessing and curse is that I I've always had good hand-eye coordination. Yeah Right, I feel like we've talked about this a few times.

Speaker 1 34:33

The blessing and the curse of having good hands right.

Speaker 2 34:35

Yeah, and so I've had good hands and I could kind of see a shot and I could do what I wanted with it. I'd feel it. Feeling and not thinking about your swing provides many positives, until you get later on in your career and you trying to play every day and call or you know, probably even professionally, it's like, okay, what are my fundamentals? Like it's exposed here, you can't go on a feeling, and so, anyway, um, but yeah, those years at Fargo country club in high school, man, they were so sweet and they developed my game and I think that you, you look at the example that Dick Anderson provided through just his generosity and serving my family, it's like geez, what do I? What have I done to deserve this Nothing?

Speaker 1 35:18

Well, I, I, I would maybe challenge you on that a little bit. I mean, it's, it's, it's maybe what you didn't do right as a, as a young man, which was perhaps, you know, be abrasive or be put yourself in a situation where you thought that you were better than everybody else and tried to show it Right. I mean, I would imagine that those opportunities would not have presented themselves to you I, you know, Dick Anderson, coming to your family had you, had you not been, you know, gracious and and and been raised in an environment of right and being appreciative and grateful for for what you have, with a great work, ethic, Right, I mean, obviously that was seen.

Speaker 2 35:59

Yeah, thank you. I yeah, I received that. Well, I think, if I look back, why that could happen. So my dad signed me up for a USGA junior amateur qualifier. It's my first qualifier ever. I think it was after my eighth grade year, it might've been after the seventh grade year and it was out at Oxbow and he played 36 holes in one day and I don't remember about that day. But I remember one thing whole third old hole 13 at Oxbow. I'm in the bunker, tight pin front, right short-sighted myself, and I know I'm I'm doing well and I swing as hard as I can and I whiffed, I, I, the ball was, I wasn't buried, it wasn't challenging. I whiffed, I hit inside the ball and I whiffed. Then I got it up on the green. I don't know if I made the putt or not, but that I I ended up qualifying for this um, this event up in New Jersey qualifying for this um, this event up in New Jersey, and this is the U S junior.

Speaker 2 36:55

U S junior am, and so I my, I I think it was, I don't know what year it was after seventh grade, after eighth grade, I qualify and I get to go play in this event in New Jersey and I show up on the first tee. You just show up and I get paired with a guy who's got his own caddy and he's got a deep Southern drawl drawl. And I said hi, my name's Andy. And he goes hi, my name's I'm Charles Howell, the third, and that was my first exposure to.

Speaker 2 37:19

Charles Howell and he was so kind to me. Obviously a gentleman, but he was so kind to me over the years. Same age, one year older one year older.

Speaker 1 37:28

Yeah, yeah, and you would end up meeting him again in college, correct?

Speaker 2 37:33

We played a lot of junior golf together. Um, he played at Oklahoma state, had a great career. I was at the Western amateur. I had to Monday qualify for the Western amateur. My parents drove me out there, made, made it and then I started playing really well in the Western. Amateur is probably the most challenging amateur event out there. It is 72 holes of stroke play, two days of 18 holes and one day of 36 holes and they take the top 16 players and you get to play match play and I had. I made it. It was probably some of the best golf I've played over a five day stretch, six day stretch. And um, I'm walking in to the that dinner. They give you a dinner at 16 and and I I walk in with Adam Scott and I walk in with Charles Howell and, sure enough, I play Charlie, I play Charles Howell in the first round yeah and uh, he was, he was pretty good, he beat me so but it was uh he's just such a.

Speaker 2 38:36

He is who he is and uh, he's never changed when's the last time you talked to him?

Speaker 1 38:42

it would have been that been in college.

Speaker 2 38:44

Yeah, yeah I think I saw him at the byron nelson when I was at just after tcu and said hello to him oh sure um yeah, so that would have been the timeframe.

Speaker 1 38:52

So what year was that junior amateur and do you remember what course it was at?

Speaker 2 38:55

So it was out in New Jersey and I keep having. Echo Lake was the name. Not a, not a, not a.

Speaker 1 39:01

Yeah, I'm not familiar with that one.

Speaker 2 39:01

But but yeah, joel Kribble played Ruge Imada that year, I remember I believe. And yeah, just, you start to get exposed to it and what that did if I can kind of transition into the college recruiting aspect of things what that did was it exposed me to okay, I'm not as good as I think I am, but I had a great opportunity. I missed the cut after two rounds, which was okay, and it exposed me to like I can do this and it gave me this confidence. And then I started getting letters in the mail, some from colleges but then from other tournaments, and I got to go play the next summer in a tournament called the Doug Sanders. My dad, kyle Newman, and I drove from Fargo and listened to like Dina Carter and Shania Twain and country music and sang it the whole way down and had a blast.

Speaker 1 39:50

You can imagine that. What would Dennis say about that car ride?

Speaker 2 39:53

Oh, he loved. Well, my dad loves music. So, he loves. I don't know what Kyle Newman thought, but, um, we get down there and you know again. Next tournament I, I, I shoot 72,. Give or take the first round, second round, playing with my buddy Chad Collins, who I met for the first time, and I shoot a 66.

Speaker 1 40:14

And and how old are you at this?

Speaker 2 40:16

time?

Speaker 1 40:16

Well, it was the year after that, so I'm trying to put I'm sorry I don't have those years, but it was probably after my eighth grade year or ninth grade year.

Speaker 2 40:23

One of those two and I I shoot 66, the last round I shoot a couple under and I'm in a playoff the top. So somebody won Troy Kelly, who played at Washington and had some success professionally, and I earn a playoff. And if I win the playoff you get to go play in the national or the international tournament at St Andrews and I didn't know what St Andrews was at this time. He beat me in a couple holes but I finished second and coach Monigill was there, my golf coach at TCU, and he was the first coach to ever approach me. He says hi, my name is Bill Bill Monigill, impressed with the week.

Speaker 2 41:01

Here's our, here's our, you know, publicity guide or whatever to the team guide. So I take him I don't know what to do with it, but that was the first time I met him and it's only because my dad drove me down there and and I had some success. And then that, of course, opens you up to. You get to go play in AJG events and you know you don't have to be political. You like your scores, do the talking and you know you go, you go, do what you do after that. So there's those two, those two moments, those two tournaments that set me up to have any type of national success?

Speaker 1 41:35

uh, through high school. The great thing about golf is that it is objective. There's no, there's, there's no politics Like you talked about. There's no coach deciding who gets to play or who gets to start to, who gets the playing time Right. I mean you, either you either go out and you and you win or you don't.

Speaker 1 41:48

Right, you post a number and that's your number and and I, what I, what I've found, or at least what I'm learning, is that you know there are people that like that and there are people that aren't that interested in that. Right, you know the idea that, oh, I'm just going to go and this is a very foreign concept to me I'm just going to go play nine holes by myself and it's like, well, why would anyone ever do that? And I mean, there's, of course, the inherent competition that you can have within yourself, but you know I'm I can empathize and relate to that, that idea of like, no, I want to beat you at something, I want to compete, I want to know that, when this is over, that I have your money in my pocket. And golf is a really good conduit to be able to do that. In can be 90 minutes, 120 minutes, four hours, whatever. So when you think about some of the competition that you faced, you know, starting locally, moving, moving nationally, I mean, would you say that your competitive drive at that time was on par with, maybe, the folks that you were meeting nationally?

Speaker 2 42:50

The top, the top ones, for sure. Some people were just there that you know they they came from some money and they got to pay the fee and they could travel and they were there. Um, so not everybody out there had it, if you can believe that. Um, but I knew how, who I wanted to to to be around and and learn from and compete with, and it was like Boyd Summerhays.

Speaker 1 43:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 43:13

He's now Tony Fino, or he was. I mean, maybe they're there, but Boyd was a very genuine, nice, nice man. Sal Spallone, who is my teammate at TCU. Kyle Thompson, who now works at Gallagher in South Carolina, if you can believe that. Lucas Glover, bubba Watson these you know, they just you knew it when you saw them and that's why I wanted to be a Bryce Mulder, one of the kindest men out there.

Speaker 1 43:39

Um, so, yeah, I mean how do you juxtapose the ability to be kind and competitive at the same time?

Speaker 2 43:46

Yeah, I remember at this Western amateur and I'll give you an example of Bryce Mulder in particular like you had to wear pants every, every round. It was like a pro event, right and um, I was competing with Bryce, we were playing together I think Danny Green was the other guy in our group and they announced between rounds that you could wear shorts because it was so hot. It was over a hundred degrees and humid. I'm like, oh man, I didn't bring any shorts. It was over a hundred degrees and humid. I'm like, oh man, I didn't bring any shorts. Bryce Mulder has two pair of shorts. He's like, hey, buddy, would you like? I mean, I could almost cry. I think, like this was simple stuff. I'm competing with this guy.

Speaker 1 44:19

Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:23

And he's given me a pair of shorts to wear because I'm hot, but he didn't need to do that so that, like the, they're just built different. Like you talk about, there are some unkind people that have success for sure, all day long, but this is who I wanted to surround myself with and then learn from and observe that you can be highly competitive and want to a humility that can lead to kindness to treat others the right way at the same time. Again, I'm talking about this not from perfection in my own life, but like you surround yourself with those people, you become who you hang out with and you learn lessons from those people. I think that's what I take away most from it.

Speaker 1 45:03

Well, from my perspective, andy I mean you you learned that at such an early age, um, comparatively to many of the people that I know, and certainly myself included, where you seem to find comfort in humility earlier than maybe others who would have been in your situation perhaps would have Is it conscious for you to say I should consider maybe a more quiet, confident route that you began to champion for the rest of your life? Or maybe talk me through that?

High School Success and Memorable Victories

Speaker 2 45:33

a little bit. Yeah, no, I, I, I don't remember um saying I need to have a quiet confidence. I think, uh, um, I, I, I knew that I might have a different set of skills that could lead to some success. But you gotta be careful what you wish for and you gotta stay humble. Called golf is one of the most humbling sports you can play. I know it's tough to hit a baseball, you know I, but you're on your own and and everybody sees your scores and is your identity and your scores or not, and that's another conversation and but I just I worked hard. I knew I was going to bring my best. I knew when I wasn't prepared at times too. Um and and again, I think that Shane McManamy kept me humble. Honestly, he, he won. He won the state tournament and as an individual and they dominated as a team.

Speaker 2 46:42

As you know, as an eighth grader we went out to Minot the next year and I'm like I'm going to win this and Darren Uselman and um Ben Webster from Jamestown were in a playoff to win. Darren was on my team at Shanley and a good friend of yours and mine over the years, ben one from Jamestown, uh, 10th grade, uh, I was like we're going to Jamestown. I'm going to. I'm going to beat Shane. I remember really close coming down the stretch. I top one. I top one on hole 13, 14 off the tee. It was windy. I was trying to hit a low driver and I topped it. Get up there for like bogey and it's kind of a pin is on a slope and actually it's so windy the ball was moving back down. I missed this. Putt comes back down, I make it.

Speaker 2 47:35

Shane took a couple of stroke lead hole 18. Still remember it. I'm down one or two and I hit it over and you got this undulating green and I make like a 60 footer. You know, I'm just mad I'm losing. Shane was in there 10 feet for birdie. I'm like I. I putted, I make it for birdie and then Shane birdies. He wins again. So that keeps you humble. You're not even the best in the state, andy, you got to keep working. And then that next year we go to Mandan and I put together a pretty good first round. Brandon Askey and I are playing in the second round. Um, I put together a good second round. I. I win the, the one of the most defining moments of an aspect of a team and an aspect of an individual of golf was our senior year and I had this circled for as long as I knew about it because red river was the dominant golf team.

Speaker 1 48:22

That was a heck of a team, so let's just stop here for a second. So you got Chris Croach. Yep, yeah, tim Scarford was there. Shane.

Speaker 2 48:28

McManamy, scott Mesmer you know they were gone our senior year, but Jared Odinger.

Speaker 1 48:35

I think was a guy named Matt it and.

Speaker 2 48:36

Red River won regionals. It was at the same course and I've got Paul Keller, mark Sanders, john Deutsch.

Speaker 1 48:59

Chris Schwinden.

Speaker 2 49:01

Mark Sanders, I'm not sure. So two guys that played football at NDSU and two ninth graders that like okay, let's go. Let's go. Like leadership, we're going to Four out of six. Let's have some fun here. Ninth graders that yeah like okay, let's go yeah, let's go like leadership like we're gonna four out of six, let's, let's, let's, let's have some fun here.

Speaker 2 49:14

I'm playing on a. I'm playing at fargo country club the day we leave. I play the day we leave. I'm playing at fargo country club and I shot an 83. I don't know the last time I didn't break 80 at the Fargo country club. I'm duck hooking it. I'm not putting well, and I'm leaving for state the next day or that. That afternoon practice round, next day, two rounds, and I've got a pit in my stomach and Peter Nervick comes on the putting green. He goes Andy, your, your left hand looks strong on your putting. Just just move it over this way a little. Hey, okay, I got a thought. Okay, whatever, I got a new thought. I'm not thinking 83.

Speaker 2 49:54

At Fargo Country Club, russ Newman and I played for $10, 999,. You know, every time I'd win $30 and he'd never take strokes from me. It was like he funded my Chipotle. He just funded it and he loved it. I think that was probably the only time I lost to Rusty that morning and I'm going to state. Well, anyway, we show up at state. I play a practice round, I'm paired with Shane McMahon in me round one and we both start off playing pretty well and I was never good with my pitching wedge. I was good with my sand wedges, but I just had this mental block. Even in my pro golf I'm like I don't want to hit a three wood or a pitching wedge. And so we're on. We're on hole six and I've got. You know, grand fork central club didn't have the best manicured fairways, but I've got like a little flyer lie yeah, it's a back pin that the, the ground, the.

Speaker 2 50:44

The green is back to front and I catch a flyer and I airmail the green and I say oh, and I hit a safe shot to 40 feet below the hole and I'll never forget this. This is, this is mindset and it's understanding where your competition's mindset is. And can I say a swear word on this? So we're on six hole. I'm up at his home course and he had just won the US Junior. He beat Charles Howell back. If you want to bring it full circle, there we go charles howell in 19 holes and flagstaff, arizona one of the best feats other than mike podolak winning the the mid-am. Yeah, those are, in my mind and my knowledge, two of the best feats coming I suppose the other one would be uh, amy anderson, amy anderson.

Speaker 1 51:24

Thank you, sorry girls, junior right and tom hoagie, like those four things, like you put them in a bucket like this is what.

Speaker 2 51:30

This is the best feats of north dakota golf, to my knowledge. Yeah, and so at that time it would have been shane's accomplishment and mike's and and and, uh and so I, I have this 40 footer. I'm thinking of peter's, I, I center, cut this 40 footer, make it, I make it and I walk up. I'm walking up to get the ball and Shane looks at me and he goes fucker. And I knew at that moment I had him, I knew it. And so I go on and I shoot. I know I'm saying I a lot and talking about me. This is great. I shoot 68 that day. I have a couple shot lead. I'm in the final group. Shane struggled that first round. I think he had an injury that nobody knew about in the hockey season. I kind of impacted them into the future. The next day was the most beautiful round of golf that I can remember playing and and the sweetest hug and I'll, I'll cry, um, I'm a deep feeler.

Speaker 1 52:34

So um, it's well, it's all. Welcome here.

Speaker 2 52:37

Yep, it is. It was a sweet round of golf. I I shoot a 66 and uh, you know, I think it was 10 under for a couple of days and uh, that's not the impressive thing. I won by eight or nine shots. I think the most impressive thing was that team that I talk about. We won the state championship by five shots or something like this give or take.

Speaker 2 53:00

And I'll still remember hugging Don Johnson and weeping at that moment because it's a close of a season and change has always been really impactful, because I look back and I think and I just am so appreciative of it. But it was a sweet time and a sweet ending. The next year we're in Bismarck for the state match play tournament and we both made it through the first few rounds. It was I don't know who the fourth person was, but it was. Shane and I were playing at Riverwood in the morning semifinal and Mike Podolak was playing somebody in the other semifinal and we're riding down the elevator and Shane was always you know, we always would banter, but but he said something demeaning to me. I don't remember what it was, it wasn't like, but it was just. It was to put me down, sure, and in that elevator ride I said I'm going to beat you. You are.

Speaker 1 54:10

Did you say it out loud?

Speaker 2 54:11

No, I no, I wouldn't say that to him. I just going to go do it and and so um.

Speaker 2 54:18

As if, as if Andy Doden needed any more bulletin board material, right he might not have known that, but it's like you know, and one of the axioms is we're always communicating out of the abundance of the mouth, mouth about out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth overflows. It's like a staple, like you know where people stand if you listen and I've always been a good growing in it. But like observing where people at you know, especially in golf, when you're playing match, play like how's this person thinking or feeling, how confident are they? And that dictates kind of your aggressiveness or your, your style of play. That day we had a great match. It wasn't easy, but but you know you, you start to listen to the, to the words of other people and then okay, what am I going to do with that information?

Speaker 1 55:01

Well, and the fascinating part about that from a competition perspective that I think certainly bleeds into other areas of life, is just that, that ability to be mindful of the nonverbal, or just the, the energy around where in which you're operating Right. And so, in that situation with an individual that you've competed with for a really long time, who certainly has the acumen and the, the ability he's gotten you a couple of times, you've gotten him a couple of times it really sort of comes down to. A lot of situations are like this, right, where it's just like a, a very thin thing, right, it's, it's one shot or it's one moment, where you're just trying to find that edge. Think about Michael Jordan, right, and his competitive nature, where he would just make stuff up that would be real in his mind, right, that would be like, oh, you know. And then you hear these guys tell the stories after the fact. It's like that never happened. Right, he just made it up just so he could be pissed off about something and try to step on that guy's neck. I believe to be true.

Speaker 1 55:58

An innate aspect of what some of the top performers have is just the ability to find advantages or be able to find things to motivate them that might not be just right in front of their face, but in a way that gives them an opportunity to say, okay, I'm going to jump off of this and keep running when you, when you look back on on that. So you, you, you finished. You had the hug with Don Um. At this point you're committed to to go to TCU Um. At what point did your relationship with Mark Johnson begin to flourish? At what point did that sort of take shape?

Speaker 2 56:33

Yeah, mark, um well he was an assistant.

Speaker 1 56:36

Yes, mark, yes, thank you.

Speaker 2 56:37

Mark was an assistant pro along with greg mccall at more country club under larry murphy, and so um I started to build a relationship with him earlier at that point, yeah, and but deepened as I entered into those last years of high school and then, I really think, into college.

Speaker 2 56:54

Golf him and pam, his wife hosted me in arizona over winter break once where I just went and practiced and we worked on the game. Um, he was such a loyal, good, encouraging friend, he, uh, my third us amateur he. He flew out to East lake and we played a practice round together and he got me through the first round at East lake and, um, you know just the loyalty and the care. We'd go out to Meadows and he'd take me through some, some drills. I remember when it was spring, my senior year, maybe in, maybe my freshman year of college, it was. It was a nice December day and we went out to like Hillsboro and we found two storage units that were I was struggling with my driver like 20 yards apart and we just started striping. Well, I wasn't striping it, I was duck hooking it actually, but like we're trying to like, okay, here's your fairway, let's go. And so just some of those good, um, sweet memories with with Mark Johnson. Um, just a good friend and um, he cared so deeply and, yeah, he wanted my best.

Speaker 1 57:49

I remember Don fondly from my high school days and, um, you know, he, he and my coach at Fargo North, ray Callahan, uh, steve Kennedy was the coach at Fargo South that time, you know, they would always play golf together. Uh, we'd always joke that on the really crappy weather days, right, we'd be out there grinding and they'd be in drinking coffee, because they'd be like, oh no, we're not going to play. We're not going to play today. But you know in retrospect such such unique individuals that you meet through the game of golf and then you know individuals that just want to continue to give back. Well, let's take a quick break I'm grabbing a little bit more coffee and come right back.

Speaker 2 58:29

Yeah, okay, thanks, andy, thank you.

Speaker 1 58:55

All right, we are back with Andy Doden here on the Time and Energy podcast. If you were to think back on just everything that happened before you went off to college from a golf perspective, from a life perspective and if you were packing a bag to head down to Fort Worth, you know what were two or three things, metaphorically, maybe that you wanted to make sure that you packed in your bag with you that you learned.

Speaker 2 59:19

Yeah Well, um, I knew I wanted to be part of a winning team. I was, uh, the the. You know, you go back to the people and I should say, the one person I didn't mention on our high school golf team that year was David Schultz.

Speaker 1 59:31

He was at Shanley. Now you're heading down to Fort Worth. Yeah, big time, college golf, right A rock and roll.

Speaker 2 59:40

What did you want to make sure that you packed with you from Fargo down to Fort Worth? Yeah, I think that um the the quiet confidence. I wanted to be part of a winning team and that's throughout my entire career. I wanted to surround myself with with really good people, and that's when my freshman year was actually a little little on the tougher side, but then it grew as the college golf career went forward. I wanted to have fun Getting away from home. Probably everybody's looking forward to those years of college, which I probably would have done some things differently, but you learn and grow through those areas as well. And then just I knew I wanted to make the tour, and so I don't think I aligned all the decisions right away to get to that point. I got there over time, but that was my goal. I wanted to play for a living and see where it could take me.

The TCU Years

Speaker 1 1:00:32

So you get down there as a freshman? Tell me about Coach Monago.

Speaker 2 1:00:36

Oh, he has a basketball recruiting background. He knows nothing about golf, okay, but he was an unbelievable basketball recruiter. And so the golf job opened up and they say you know, you want this job. Never would they do that today. This was 30, 35 years ago, never. But he had street smarts like nobody I'd ever met. I learned a lot of street smarts from him.

Speaker 1 1:01:00

For example.

Speaker 2 1:01:04

Bring poker chips on a plane. Just time management like five minutes on time is, or five minutes early is on time On time's late Drilled it into me, served me well in my career Traveling. What flights to book, why? Simple things right. But Coach Monigal was different than a lot of the recruiters.

Speaker 2 1:01:26

I got recruited many places but I toured University of Texas and I toured TCU and University of Texas. John Fields had just come over from New Mexico and he his like the Fab Five at Michigan. That was their big year with Chris Weber and John Howard and all those guys. Fields had had the Fab Five with John Clout, david Gossett, russell Serber, there were a couple others and scholarship was there but not fully went on a recruiting trip. That um, there was no football game that weekend. I was kind of just okay, this is fine. And then I went to TCU. Coach picks me up in a Hummer, I get to go to a football game. I get to go tailgate. Um, sal Splone, scott Volpito, show me a great time. Like okay, I'm going here, this is, this is a small environment, like 8,000 people at the time.

Speaker 2 1:02:16

But coach Monigill stood with me all through recruiting. In fact he came up to, he was at Edgewood here I keep pointing to Edgewood, but I was in the FM all city. He came up, followed me around. He loved to play ping pong. We'd go in the basement play ping pong and then he'd sit around our dinner table. No other golf coach did that. But what coach Monigal knew from a recruiting perspective is if you get the mom, you get the kid. There's a lesson there and my mom, like I said, careful, worrier and so like hey, where's my son going? It's important to the coaches. And coach Monigal knew that, of course, and he came and had some good, good dinners with us, but he was just um, a kind, kind man, you know. He gave a talk about axioms, one of the best axioms, and I actually heard Graham, my son, saying this as he left the door today. But I'm like, if you're on the bubble, get off of it.

Speaker 1 1:03:08

Wow.

Speaker 2 1:03:09

If you're on the bubble, get off. Stop. You don't have anything to complain about. You're in control. Get off the bubble. Which way do you want to go? Do you want to go on the right side of the bubble or the wrong side of the bubble and you want to talk golf about being objective? You know where you're at yeah and you can't complain because you know where your game's at yeah and so he he reiterated, five minutes early is on time.

Speaker 2 1:03:27

In fact, if you were four minutes early, that was a one stroke penalty in qualifying. If you were, if you were four minutes like one minute, that's four strokes. So we were on time, we were disciplined in that and we knew we had nothing to complain about. If you're on the bubble, go work harder or don't. You have a choice that can be applied to business, of course.

Speaker 1 1:03:49

Absolutely. What was your qualifying objective in that regard too, yeah?

Speaker 2 1:03:54

Yeah, he didn't sway. In fact, um, sal Spallone was an all American. Our freshman year JJ Henry won the national championship as a senior and TCU performed very, very well. Very respected program. Coach was turning it around. They had Alberto Ochoa, scott Valpita who was from Augusta as well, grady Gerard. It was a great team. The next year JJ leaves. Coach didn't bring in many recruits. Alberto Ochoa turns pro at Christmas.

Speaker 2 1:04:22

Sal Splone can't crack an egg. He can't break 80. But Sal Splone's dad was a powerful man in Florida and Sal Splone, his dad, would call Coach Monigal and complain about he's not going to tournaments. Well, he can't make it, he's not good enough. Well, sal redshirted. You think about being an all American coming in and redshirting.

Speaker 2 1:04:39

So we had five guys our second semester, which there was no healthy competition. That's why I say I want to be part of a competitive, healthy, competitive team and that just wasn't the case my freshman year, to the point where I was on coach's sofa with him and his wife saying I think I want to transfer. That's where I go back to my dad's loyalty. He, my dad, doesn't say many words, but he gave me wisdom that day that I'm forever thankful for to say you got to stick this out, andy. This is one year. What kind of character do you want to develop? So that's pretty impactful. Um, so our team that year we didn't make nationals. Uh, we went up to the preview at Hazeltine and then we didn't make nationals. I think university of georgia made it when ruji yamada um eagled hole 16 um you speak as a of it, as if it was yesterday yeah, yeah, well, these are, yeah, I mean just you know it's funny like that.

Speaker 2 1:05:28

Yeah, memories yeah, and so coach was, was was great, and so you go back to what was the qualifying. Like Sal didn't get any gifts because he was All-American the previous year.

Speaker 2 1:05:42

We had to go compete and they were long qualifiers and the best qualifiers were when you got back from Christmas vacation in January and you got to take the trip to Hawaii. Those were 10 rounds and he figured over 10 rounds. The cream's going to rise to the top and then if you finished in that, if you won, you were exempt for the rest of the year. A college golf tournament If you finished top 10, you got the next two or three. If you finished top 20, you're good for the next one. Okay, that was it. You knew what you needed to do to be on that team.

Speaker 1 1:06:07

Well, that's pretty straightforward from a coach's perspective, and so a guy that doesn't know much about golf but as set expectations of discipline, right Of of getting off the bubble and, just you know, working hard and things of that nature, what I mean? What else was he doing for you all that allowed you to be successful, besides maybe just getting out of your way?

Speaker 2 1:06:29

Well, coach Holder was a legendary golfer at Oklahoma state, won many national championships, and coach Monigal was was an assistant basketball coach at Oklahoma State. So they formed a relationship and Coach Holder was a mentor to Coach Montague. I was at a if I go back to high school and recruiting Coach Holder we were in Colorado was playing well in a national tournament. Coach Holder's were sitting over the just up on the deck and he says, andy, we'd like to have you come on a recruiting trip to Oklahoma State. I said no, thanks.

Speaker 2 1:07:04

I know I don't want to go to your school. I know that might be hard to hear or you don't hear it often, but I just I don't think I'm your guy. And he said, son, that's like at the time anyway, son, that like somebody getting asked to go to her Notre Dame as a football player and saying no, I said I, I understand. What he didn't know was that I wanted to go to school and probably not work out. And they worked out tirelessly. They did like jazzercise or whatever. I mean they did weird stuff and and you were there and you didn't drink, and I didn't know that I didn't want, I wanted to have a good time and so those were two and and over the years coach Monigal was the one guy that coach Holder rarely, if ever, beat from a recruiting standpoint. That's how good coach Monigal was at recruiting Fascinating, I digress there. What was your question?

Speaker 1 1:08:01

No, no, I, just when you think about guys and the influence that they had on you. Obviously, coach Monaco was one of those and you know you, you had already had. Clearly you had been blessed with a gift of discipline and drive, um, facilitated through your young career, right. And so, like a guy like that, who, who isn't coaching you and I think this is maybe a misnomer that that the lay person probably doesn't understand is that you get into some of these college golf arenas. You know big time college golf. That golf coach, more often than not at least, isn't teaching you golf, maybe as much as the average person might believe that they are. What are they doing?

Speaker 2 1:08:42

Yeah. So, coach Monigill, thank you, you reminded me of your question. He would surround us with the resources we needed while developing mindset. So any coach or any leader, it's all about mindset. Where is your team at? Are they prepared or not? We would prepare like crazy. He taught us how to like.

Speaker 2 1:09:02

I didn't know how to prepare in a practice round for an event. What do you look for and why? And there were coaches Coach Holder was the extreme of this and very, very good, and I think Monigal learned a lot from him. But we had Coach Dr David Cook was a mental, uh, mental coach that would come up once a month and we'd learn from him. See it, feel it, trusted, as his famous motto Yep, uh. And then you've got um, you've got Dana Bollinger, who was a swing coach if you needed it though many of us had our own back home and whatnot. Um, but it was mindset, it was preparation, it was, it was the details that that coach Montague, um, what attitude do we want to bring into this? Um, he just tried to recruit good players and let them set them up for success.

Speaker 2 1:09:45

Now I think a lot is some has changed, some hasn't, but I think it's all about college golf coach. If you can, if you can create an environment of healthy competition, teach people how to prepare unbelievably right and support them and remove barriers. I'm talking about leadership at WEX for you right, I'm talking anything right, but that's what a college golf coach does really, really well. I don't know how NIL has changed things there's probably some of that as well and you always are recruiting. That's what they do. They recruit around the clock, um and with the transfer portal. Now I I'm sure they have to have assistance to just try to keep keep tabs on everything and all the moving parts.

Speaker 1 1:10:28

Were you aware in the moment how impactful and influential he was and was going to be on your leadership acumen.

Speaker 2 1:10:39

Probably not. No, um, I you know. You just remember some of these things. You look back. Where did I learn? I don't have an original ID in my body, but again I go back to the people. He was a Don Johnson coach, monigal Wow, unbelievable mentors by what they did. But also you know what they, what they, what they taught.

Speaker 1 1:10:56

At the same time, so your freshman, let's, let's your freshman year at TCU away from Fargo Fargo being, you know, big fish, relatively small pond, or at least the pond that you were placed in find yourself competing with other individuals of probably similar, if maybe not greater, acumen at the time. What was the first moment that kind of slapped you across the face of reality in Fort Worth at TCU?

Speaker 2 1:11:28

Probably Hazeltine. The preview was our first national tournament. I had a dream the weekend before we left that I won the thing right, that's how naive I was.

Speaker 2 1:11:36

I can still remember the dream and I get up there, my family's there supporting me, excited, and you know I just you finish 50th or something, give or take. Got to eat like. I learned how to make shrimp scampi. I was at a rich private school who says that like filet mignon and shrimp scampi. I still have the recipe and I make it for my family and friends. I'm at TCU living the high life. You know and and um. But what it, what it did was um. There was one time I got I'll never forget this lesson too, but like I, I, you know, was out partying. It was. It was the Red River Classic. The weekend that Texas plays Oklahoma in football. We also there's a college golf tournament that they Texas and Oklahoma host.

Speaker 1 1:12:26

Oh, I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 1:12:27

Yeah, I don't know if they still do it, but it was called the Red River Classic and we went over to, you know, play in it. And um, another thing I learned from Monogill. It's Scotty Volpito and I. We were out partying. We drive over there on a Saturday stay in a hotel and on Saturday, sunday morning for the practice round, we hear a knock at the door. What in the heck is going on? Scotty Coach Monigill and he had already brought the other three players you have five in college to the course and he comes back and hey, boys, how are you doing?

Speaker 2 1:13:01

You missed your tea time.

Speaker 1 1:13:03

Oh my.

Speaker 2 1:13:05

We missed the bus, we slept through it and Coach he didn't really say anything at that point and Coach had a saying and I don't know if this is my saying I don't, I don't, I don't subscribe to this way of leadership or anything like that. But he always said I don't get mad, I get even.

Speaker 1 1:13:25

Okay.

Speaker 2 1:13:26

And, and I again, I don't subscribe to that. But what he meant by that is that, hey, I'm not going to get upset right now. We got a job to do. You guys, there's some some grace here for you, but here's what we're going to do. You're going to meet me at five 30 at the football stadium the day after we get back. And I learned real quick that I wasn't in very good shape running stairs.

Speaker 1 1:13:46

I was just going to ask you what the punishment was Exactly.

Speaker 2 1:13:48

We ran stairs like crazy and I don't think it was just for one day, but I learned the lesson here. Andy, what are you doing? What are you rep? You're representing yourself, you're representing your team, you're representing your coach, your family, like this isn't. This isn't good enough, and I don't think I shaped up right away, but it's like that's a miss buddy and you know you learn from it, learning, grow, growth, mindset. So, um, those are some impactful. Impactful, you know, moments and learning from people like, like coach, on how to lead through issues or conflict and how to, how to treat others.

Speaker 1 1:14:22

Was there any any modicum of? It was always my mom, that's like you know, I'm not mad, I'm disappointed.

Speaker 1 1:14:30

Right, you know my old man would get. He'd get pissed off, and you know that would be just kind of what you would expect, and you know gender, gender roles. We could spend time talking about that too, but. But but it was always worse with mom Cause it was always like I'm Nicholas, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed, right? So that implies a level of relationship, a deeper level of coaching and leadership, right, which is man I I just don't want to disappoint. Did you experience that in that moment that you might've disappointed him, or was it? Did that relationship get to that point?

Speaker 2 1:14:59

Yeah, we, uh, we've had. We had a great relationship from from day one and trusted each other deeply. He believed in recruiting from the North that you know there's potential there and come down and give you the resources you need. And yeah, it was. It was like I, I knew he didn't have to even say, say anything. Like you know it was a mistake. Learn from it.

Speaker 2 1:15:17

But I think back to your question around like, what did that fresh? Was there a moment? Yes, that was the moment we only had five guys. There wasn't the healthy competition. What it taught me was perseverance. When the chips are down is when our true character comes out. I wanted to run from it. Are you going to fight or flight? I wanted to transfer to Ohio state. I had a buddy over there talking to me like come, come play at Ohio state, it's awesome here. Well, I stayed. So like perseverance, loyalty, working through hard things. Life isn't easy but it's worth it. Got through it, worked really hard that next summer and that was one of my best summers of golf, leading into probably my best season of college golf.

Speaker 1 1:15:57

Yeah, let's go there. So this is your now sophomore year. Yes, okay.

Collegiate Golf Lessons

Speaker 2 1:16:00

Yes, so I had some success, um, nationally, in tournaments. That summer I think it was the first time I had I had won the pine to palm, um, and going into college, um, just with some confidence that I didn't have. And I, I, I start off. We go to East Tennessee States tournament, a popular course that you'd know, um, but I was playing very well that day, I think I, I, on whole set. John Engler said, man, you're going to, you might win this thing on whole 17,. Walking up the fair, I'm like, oh, I hit it to 10 feet. Like, oh, I might win this thing. Well, I crank it by by three feet and three putt bogey, then I bogey 18. I think I had a top 10, but, like, just boy, this is different.

Speaker 2 1:16:46

And so, going into that year, coach had to start working out with a guy named Ken Stone. We'd get up every Tuesday and Thursday morning at 6 am. We'd be running two miles with like 10 pound weights in our hand, with like 10 pound weights in our hand. It was just mental toughness. It's just what I, what I wanted be challenged Like. I don't want to settle, let's go do some hard stuff. We did lunges Like it wasn't, you know like real creative stuff, but it's just good hard work. We're doing it as a team, we're growing a bond and we have this healthy competition. Coach brought a bunch of guys in. It's like this is what I want to be a part of. Well, anyway, we we make it to nationals. That year made the cut we shouldn't have based on on paper we shouldn't have, but we did. Coach prepared us really well, um, and so, yeah, that was, that was just a very satisfying year of of college golf and fun.

Speaker 1 1:17:29

One, the pine of palms that year um us amateur.

Speaker 2 1:17:32

I played in the USM three times and once was at Baltusrol, once was at Oakland Hills in Michigan and then Eastlake. I think was my last one. So three of them, yeah, I progressed. So the first year I missed the cut, just playing terrible. The next year I made it to match play at Baltusrol, lost in the first round. And the next year at Eastlake, won the first round, lost the second round.

Speaker 1 1:18:03

Any notable names?

Speaker 2 1:18:07

Well, it's funny you say that the second year or the last year at Eastlake. I'm watching Full Swing the other day with Graham on Netflix and Camila Villegas is on and he's telling his really sad story about his 17 month old passing away.

Speaker 2 1:18:19

And I'm sitting over here making breakfast. Hey, graham, you know who beat me at the USM. Graham doesn't want to hear my stories. Okay, dad, like are you just saying that to feel good about yourself or what? But yeah, camila Villegas, we had a just a great learning moment a hole 16. I have him. We're even going into hole 16 and he's missed the green. I've got in for par and he's got a 12 footer and he gets. You know, he's so flexible and does the? Spider stuff.

Speaker 1 1:18:45

And was he doing that back then too?

Speaker 2 1:18:46

Yeah, and he makes the putt, I have the honor. So we tie that hole. I have the honors on 17 and this is hole eight now. So if you can think about 18, then was the par three that you'd hit a three wood on right. Uh, that we know it to be. But they've switched it around today and I'm, I'm just, I'm playing really well. Mark Johnson was like. He was there for me that week and I I had him confident he didn't. He had to leave after round one. So Adam Rumanson caddied for me. Second round of qualifying. I make it beat a guy from wake force in the first round. I'm playing Camila, even going into 17. I hit the perfect draw Like I picked up my tea. What you can't, what you don't know at that point, is that you can't feel the breeze. I pick up the tea and I look up and the ball's drifting. Oh man, bunker, up against the lip, make bogey, missed the green with a three wood. He, he makes par, yeah. So anyway, that was Eastlake.

Speaker 1 1:19:46

What a memory.

Speaker 2 1:19:47

Yeah, it was good, it's fun. Fun event. Next round would have been against a guy named Bubba Dickerson, who Camila lost to, and he ended up winning it.

Speaker 1 1:19:54

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:19:54

They both play golf at university of Florida.

Speaker 1 1:19:58

It's 20 years ago, 20. Yeah, five years 25 years ago.

Speaker 2 1:20:01

Yeah, yeah, a while ago.

Speaker 1 1:20:04

And names that many are familiar with what a what a gas? Yeah Well, let's um. Let let's move into, to sort of your transition from from TCU. Um started to realize, obviously you know, coming from Fargo into TCU, that, okay, over time I got the chops. I can compete at this level. Um, certainly, have the drive, have the desire, you know, have the acumen, have the discipline. Now you're going to take a run at playing professional golf. Talk, talk me through that thought process. You know what were the points of consideration and how that was going to play out. How are you going to go about it? And and what sort of transferable skills did you learn from your time at TCU that you believe prepared you for that next phase?

Speaker 2 1:20:46

Yeah, so I went to school five years so I played four. I roomed with David Schultz my fifth year at TCU. He transitioned over to TCU and had a great career there. Obviously, that fifth year, fall I went to Q school just for experience. My brother was and sister-in-law and their family were very influential in supporting me financially. Bell Bank, state Bank and Trust at the time was very kind to me from a sponsorship perspective and basically I just had minimum funds to go, fund entry fees and some travel.

Speaker 2 1:21:22

And so I went to Q School that fall just to get an experience. I wanted to see what it tasted like, didn't have many expectations. Missed first stage. Um I I think I might've played in the North Dakota open that summer and turn pro the end of the summer prior to my fifth year and then I play some mini tour events around the Metroplex. Um got engaged that fall to Katie um in November. Um, and I haven't. We haven't talked about that a whole lot, but we got engaged. I knew I was going to go pro and I knew I wanted to marry her slam dunk decisions easiest decisions I made in my life.

Speaker 1 1:21:55

So this is about 2003. This is 2002, 2002.

Speaker 2 1:22:00

Okay, that fall, Yep. And then um, I, I, I go into um the next summer after I finished school and go out and live in Fountain Hills, arizona. Play on the gateway tour at the time.

Speaker 1 1:22:12

Would you say Katie was as interested in marrying you as you were her?

Speaker 2 1:22:16

A hundred percent. I was probably she. I knew she liked me and loved me, but I didn't know to the extent until this played out here. So wonderful human being.

Speaker 1 1:22:26

Great when a plan comes together, isn't?

Speaker 2 1:22:28

it. You knew her before I did.

Speaker 1 1:22:29

Well, my goodness, I remember going to kindergarten. Well, I don't maybe remember that, but I remember her mom being a room mother at Longfellow in first or second grade. And gosh, it's funny, wonderful family.

Speaker 2 1:22:42

Yeah, so yeah, I went out there. Gosh, it's um anyway. Yeah. So yeah, I went out there and I I it's funny you look back I've been so reflective over the last two months. It's so reflective and I think about these things that I do differently. Okay, it's almost like I'm in a mid-year, midlife transition. I wouldn't call it a crisis. I don't want to go get plastic surgery, I don't want a new wife, I don't want a new car, like I'm not going to spend. But I was going to ask you, I didn't, I didn't look outside.

Speaker 1 1:23:03

I don't want a new car, Like I'm not going to spend. But I was going to ask you. I didn't, I didn't look outside, I didn't see a Porsche.

Speaker 2 1:23:06

I got a truck with 194,000 miles on it.

Speaker 1 1:23:08

So and I'm comfortable your kids get all the nice stuff now Exactly.

Speaker 2 1:23:14

Yeah, so just reflective. And it's like Katie, I don't know that I like I was playing golf. I have so selfish. I was playing golf in Arizona. I don't think I ever thanked you or took part in our wedding planning, like I don't think so. We were on a hike last week. I just told her that I said thank you for everything you did. I don't think I ever understood it. She goes Andy, I didn't do much either. My mom did a ton. I said well, did we ever thank your mom? I don't think so. Last week we're sitting at dinner, nancy. I don't think so. Last week we're sitting at dinner, nancy, thank you for everything. I don't know that I that I thanked you enough for that. That was impactful.

Speaker 1 1:23:50

So that's a moment.

Speaker 2 1:23:53

It's good, you know, and it's never too late to say thank you. It's never too late to say I'm sorry. Right, I think I've learned those two things as well here, but like those, those moments, um, um, yeah, so so, playing golf in Arizona, we get married unbelievably generous people giving us money at our wedding. We lived off our wedding money for five months and I was telling Katie last week people sent us money that I don't. I don't even know how they knew we needed money, but we were provided for. Well, we, we had a George Foreman grill. I remember we got tuna steaks one night. We were living the life down there and just newlyweds.

Speaker 1 1:24:31

It's a long way from shrimp scampi yeah.

Speaker 2 1:24:33

Yeah, but under George Foreman, like what was I doing? But just sweet moments and I would. I would play on the gateway tour and and didn't have a ton of success. Craig Palmer, he'd come and support me every day and that's a man who has influenced me greatly. He was so loyal, just like a Mark Johnson, and he had a great golf career, but he would travel with me, he caddy for Pat Moore, if you remember that name as well.

Speaker 2 1:24:58

So, hey, we talked about all the accomplishments, pat Moore winning three nationwide events and again, that's an unbeatable feat too. Yeah, they keep coming, but Minot guy right yeah, minot. Yeah, and did he he had some injuries? I believe he did, and that's what took him down, Unfortunately some back injuries, but a great man, humble guy.

Speaker 1 1:25:13

Where's he at today? Do you know?

Professional Golf Journey Begins

Speaker 2 1:25:14

I don't. He lived in Scottsdale at the time, so Craig Palmer and I hit it off that summer. He's living down there. They had a house in the Scottsdale area and just supporting me like crazy. I had a great group of friends that's another thing down there where we got together every week and then we went to Q school and I wanted to pick the hardest courses possible, like I. My game at that time, and still is, wasn't to go shoot a 63, like these guys can today. My game was to go find the most difficult course in the toughest conditions and have my short game come through and my thinking and my mental fortitude Okay. And so I went over to Dallas, texas, one of the stone bridge courses, and I start. I practiced like crazy at a talking stick course and I found a swing thought just self-teaching again, and I'm like this is it. I'm compressing the ball and we get up. It's at. So I made it through first stage, second stage, even a tougher course, stonebridge, and there's water everywhere. It's out in the open. You've been there.

Speaker 1 1:26:12

No, I have not no.

Speaker 2 1:26:14

And I knew that I wanted to go to that course because I'm comfortable in Texas for one thing, but I knew it was tough and this is in late October, so you know the conditions are going to be maybe not as warm and a little windy. And I get up there on the first tee. We tee off on hole 10 early one morning and there's a strong left-right wind. This hole is 470 yards and I hit a perfect draw into this right-to-left wind and that was tough for me, Tough for anybody, but when you know you're so. And then it's a small green, I've got a four iron in jesus and I hit another towering four iron middle of the green. Two putt next hole, hole 11, dog leg left, straight into the wind, huge water up the left side. Hit a draw, hit a six iron to 10 feet. Okay, I, I got something this week. It was. It was a beautiful week, just like that. I knew it. I knew it because my short game was there and I was playing so beautifully Well, one of the best shots I've hit in my life.

Speaker 2 1:27:17

I have a peanut butter sandwich that day and I'm on hole 15, 14, 15. It's a par five. My wedge. I got a wedge in my hand. Front left pin. Hit a nipper five feet. Make it for birdie. I know I'm in position. Par the next hole. Par the next hole. I'm trying to eat a peanut butter sandwich. I can't swallow it Because you're so nervous at this point.

Speaker 1 1:27:38

Your hole next year is gonna be determined by these next couple holes and those thoughts have to be, I mean, as as much as you are accomplished right and and keeping the main thing, the main thing you know, keeping your eye on the prize, growth, mindset, all those types of things that you've been prepared for, that has to be in there.

Speaker 2 1:27:54

You try to stay in the moment, but it's, it's virtually impossible for me. Some people can just turn it off but like, okay, I've got something here. My, my heart's pounding, I'm nervous. This is where I want to be. You're in, you're, you're in the, the stadium right now, what you've worked your whole life for. Like, let's go. I think I bogey 17. Okay, we're on hole 18, hole nine you hit a cut up. It's like sawgrass hole number 18. Just think about it a cut hole. 18. You got to hit a draw. Winds coming left to right again hard, 20, 25 miles an hour. Round four I bogey 17.

Speaker 2 1:28:27

Guy named chris cox, um was was off to off. He was going to t off. First, he bails out right. Second guy bails out right. We got an elevated t. I say you got this. I hit the most. For me I hit a draw into this right to left wind. Like I can still see it, I can feel it middle of the stinking fairway and if I make bogey I miss. If I make par, I go, that's it. If I duck, hook it in the water, I'm out. I hit a wedge, draw two putt par. Give Craig a big hug. Katie had come over, celebrated with friends that night going to third stage. On paper probably shouldn't have been going to third stage right out of college, but it was just a sweet time to kick off the professional career.

Speaker 1 1:29:21

But you were ready and you proved it.

Speaker 2 1:29:24

And fear of failure, though I mean that would drive me like the and that drove me to over preparedness and that played in, I believe, to me as a sales individual and as a leader being over prepared. Thinking things through, I'm very reflective, I'm, I'm diligent, but like when it's on, let's go. I'm going to out prepare everybody. This was my attitude and, um, you know, I think of even back to Fargo country club. I'm it's this one spring guy named Ben I don't remember his last name, him and Nate Hunter and some other guys. They're playing. I don't know they were, they were seniors. I was a junior, Ben Muhlenberg. Yes, Thank you, Muhlenberg. He lived right over there by the country club and I'm hitting bunker shot after bunk down below. It's a Saturday morning and these kids are just running around goofing off and he goes. This is why you're having success.

Speaker 1 1:30:14

Well, not only that, but you were the guy that, when it would start raining, you'd put your rain gear on and go hit balls. And you, you'd chip and you'd putt, and you'd do all the things in the dark, in the quiet, when nobody else was looking.

Speaker 2 1:30:25

It is my. I love spinning the golf ball first and foremost and you're always going to spin it most in the rain. But my attitude and I'll share a quick digress a little bit here. But I was going to go outwork anybody and prepare in every condition and have a blast doing it Like I love it. Learn to love playing in the rain. I still tell Graham this Learn to love it, others are going to hate it. Learn to putt on bad greens. You're going to make more putts than your competition. Learn to love whatever is displayed or presented to you that day. Learn to love it. Drill that into you. I would do that at Morad Country Club. I remember doing it. I remember doing it at Fargo and it's like let's go put on a rain suit or not and let's go hit a bunch of bunker shots and watch the ball spin. Okay, I'll tell you a moment now.

Speaker 2 1:31:10

Now I'm at, uh, uh, the U S U S junior amateur. What's the name of that course in Pennsylvania? Jason all read one at. He was in our wedding. Um, great course, aeronomic. Oh, and I'm down one to a guy named chris who plays golf at east tennessee. He's gonna go to east tennessee state and and I've got a. I we're on hole 18 and it's downpouring and it's it's late and I hit a four iron to a foot and I made birdie on him from the first cut of rough and we got to make a decision. Hey, it's raining a lot, there's some standing water. Should we play our playoff hole today or sleep on it? I mean, like what do you think? Yeah, don't ask me twice, we're playing. Yeah, so hole one at aeronomic. I hit it on the green and I'm not in casual water, but there's a big puddle between me and the hole. Like there's standing water.

Speaker 1 1:32:04

So clearly he was okay with continuing to play as well.

Speaker 2 1:32:06

Whether he wanted to or not, we were going there. He would have had to say yes, oh, yes, you're right, I can't force him. Maybe I used some sales tactics.

Speaker 1 1:32:15

But you knew you had an advantage, right.

Speaker 2 1:32:17

There's no way this guy practiced in the rain like I did in my mind, maybe he did, but in my mind I've got the competitive advantage right now did in my mind, maybe he did, but in my mind I've got the competitive advantage right now, and I'm like I've hit this putt before I know how to judge standing water and I I judged it well. I make par, I I win. The next day. I play trevor emelman, if you know that yeah and, uh, he beats me.

Speaker 2 1:32:41

He ends up losing to jason Allred in the finals. But I mean, those are the things about preparation. Learn to love the quiet, the behind the scenes work that nobody sees, and just go attack it in any type of environment. How do you teach that? You can model it. You can't tell anybody to go practice in the rain if they don't want to. You can model it and set an example. People have to make their own decisions in life. Is that who I want to become? Or am I comfortable with where I'm at? And that's okay if you are, but that's what's possible.