Ep.3.2: Leadership Through Transition: DBI and Beyond - w/ Andy Doeden

Andy Doeden’s remarkable journey from professional golf to corporate leadership shows us how life's transitions shape our perspectives and priorities. With refreshing honesty, Andy reveals the mental and emotional challenges of shifting from an individual contributor role—where success meant topping sales leaderboards—to leading teams at Discovery Benefits (later acquired by WEX)

The conversation delves into leadership philosophy that prioritizes people over metrics. "Lead, love, and serve people towards their full potential," Andy shares as his mission statement, reflecting his belief that true leadership focuses on helping others reach their potential. 

His approach cultivated a unique corporate culture where colleagues genuinely celebrated each other's successes rather than competing against one another—a rarity in sales environments. Particularly compelling is Andy's discussion of identity and worth beyond professional achievements. Having previously tied his identity to golf scores and later to sales numbers, he speaks powerfully about the journey to recognize that "you're more valuable than your results." 

This perspective shift proved crucial during his leadership years and his recent decision to step away from his 18-year career to prioritize family and personal growth. The episode offers practical wisdom on navigating relationships in leadership positions. Andy challenges the notion that "leadership is lonely" and the false dichotomy between friendship and authority, sharing how setting healthy boundaries allowed him to maintain meaningful connections while still leading effectively. 

His candid reflections on using outside perspectives—from his wife Katie, business coaches, and friends—demonstrate the importance of vulnerability in leadership. Whether you're contemplating a career transition, stepping into leadership, or seeking a healthier relationship with work and achievement, 

Andy's story provides both inspiration and practical guidance. His willingness to discuss personal struggles with anxiety and the mental toll of leadership creates space for honest conversations about the human side of professional success.

Transcript

The Importance of Leadership Pipeline

Speaker 1 0:00

It's solely important that you build a pipeline of future leaders, it's solely important that you have a hiring process, that you're going to identify the right leader, and it's solely important that you spend time with your leaders, providing the vision, removing barriers, understanding what their goals are and supporting them like crazy to move into the future. And if you can start to think that way, boy, it gets really fun.

Speaker 2 0:53

I believe there's some really good tangential things that are that are working towards kind of how you then transitioned into another individual contributor role at discovery benefits.

Speaker 2 1:03

Right another individual contributor role at discovery benefits, right, so two things. At what point did you realize, or come to that conclusion that, okay, perhaps this is not the longterm job for me? Yeah, and and what was the what? Was there a moment, specific moment? Was it kind of a slow bleed, as it were, into that realization? And how did you handle that, knowing that you're probably 10, 15 years into being this close to that dream and moving forward?

Speaker 1 1:36

Yeah. So I think some of my best memories were the friendships being made in professional golf and Katie would often travel and even caddy for me, and those were sweet times. Professional golf and Katie would often travel and even caddy for me, and those were sweet times. And I, graham's playing some junior golf and I and I I kid with him cause he could have caddies. I said not many, not many caddies today are going to have on their resume that they caddied for a professional golfer who won an event.

From Professional Golf to Corporate Life

Speaker 1 2:01

You know, he get a kick out of that Cause. Katie and I um, she did that at a tight lies event and we just had a. We just had a blast.

Speaker 2 2:08

So Katie's doing some caddy infogram.

Speaker 1 2:10

Yeah, well, up to like age 11, you put on some of the Minnesota tours and stuff, and so she, she loves, she loves walking. The golf course we've had doesn't play, but she's played a few times.

Speaker 2 2:19

But and could I mean she's an incredible athlete. Yeah, you know, was it swimming and diving right? Yeah, swimming.

Speaker 1 2:24

She swam at UND, yeah, that's right and she's played a few times together but more importantly, she just loves being together as a family or out on the golf course with me at this time. So we have some unbelievable memories through these years of golf and some have to do with her caddying for me. For me, um, they're the fourth year and so I, I make, I make the nationwide tour right off the bat and, um, you know, finished far off, maybe 130th on the money list, to even keep a card. It was a great learning year, unbelievable experiences. Katie's now starting to teach in Fort Worth and we're we buy a house, we're living off her teaching income. Great, unbelievable teacher sixth grade math in the Fort Worth, and we buy a house, we're living off her teaching income. Great, unbelievable teacher sixth grade math in the Fort Worth school district and I'm gone for three weeks at a time.

Speaker 1 3:11

Come back, kind of connect. You know I'm going again. It's all about me, golf, golf. I don't regret anything, but it's just one of those things that it's very me centered. It just is.

Speaker 1 3:21

And if you want to talk about a group of very unhappy millionaires with somewhat broken lives, look at the PGA Tour. I know we get to see all the great things going on, but it is hard. And so you start to realize some of these things what do you want out of life? Where are we at today, was my agent and my brother, dan, gave a lot of wisdom and they were cheering for me like crazy, but they couldn't see how tough it was on the home front, if that makes sense. And so it was our fourth year.

Speaker 1 3:52

I was on the Canadian tour for a couple of years, we were doing whatever and, and Katie and I are talking like hey, should this be it? Well, I make the decision to keep playing and give it one more year, and my heart wasn't. I kind of knew at that time. My heart wasn't there. I kind of knew what that meant and had really good wisdom from other folks. But that was a tough year.

Speaker 1 4:19

Katie continued to teach and it was some of these. We had marriage retreats, we'd go to just beautiful people. We were learning and growing. We didn't know anything about marriage and we go to some counseling. We go to some counseling and it came out that, hey, andy, you might be listening to other people's voices more than mine and you want to be hit in the face, like you say. I matter to you, but you're not valuing my opinion, and so I still remember in tears.

Speaker 1 4:50

I'm like looking at her and like, okay, our marriage is more important than than, than than all this other stuff going on. I want to stay married, I want to start a family and I want to make a paycheck. This is what I want for us. Do you agree, katie? Yes, I agree. It sounds wonderful. So that that was the moment where I knew that she was the most important person in my life and I said it to her, though she didn't always feel it. And, um, we moved on from there and I called Bell Bank at the time. That was that fall of I don't know 2007. Called Bell Bank, had a year on the contract left that they said Mike, thank you for everything it's been. I'm done playing golf. That's fine, andy, we want to hire you. Just next words out of his mouth Boom and Andy, we want to hire you.

Speaker 2 5:48

Just next words out of his mouth Boom. So do you? How do you think that would have changed had you had, let's just say, the first couple of years more success on the nationwide tour? Let's just say, instead of finishing 130th, you finished 25th. Um, I mean, obviously you know tough to know, but I mean, as you, if you think back on your relationship with Katie and just how that, obviously you know, really went to the next level around communication and, you know, moving from that individual contributor to now, not just a golfer, perhaps as an identity, but as a husband, yeah, what, what would have happened?

Speaker 1 6:20

Well, I mean how it could have played out. I don't know, I believe everything happened perfectly, but if it would have happened, well, I mean how it could have played out. I don't know, I believe everything happened perfectly, but if it would have been where I was making a sustainable living, over time there could have been an opportunity for her to back away from teaching. It would have been very tough to start a family, though. What do you do in that case? And we desire greatly to have children. So, yeah, there would have been some big decisions to make. How long do you go trying to chase this dream, and at what expense, is the core question.

Speaker 2 6:50

It's a cost.

Speaker 1 6:51

Opportunity cost. So I'm very thankful it played out this way. I'm thankful for everybody who supported us, but ultimately, katie and I I needed to lead her better and we needed to make a unified decision on what we wanted out of life. And that next phase are some of the best years of of our lives together, in my life professionally.

Speaker 2 7:12

Well, let's get into it, man. So you? You mentioned Mike, that's Mike Solberg, you're talking about right who?

Speaker 2 7:15

you know, took over the reins from his father, Dick, at at what was state bank and, trust you know, eventually became bell bank. But at that time they were helping sponsor you a little bit, provide you a little bit of cash and whatnot to to chase your your professional golf career, and called Mike and said, done playing golf. They said, I want to hire you. So what did they hire you to do? And how'd that? How'd that play out?

Speaker 1 7:38

They had just entered in. A couple of years prior to this idea of FSA, hsa, cra administration, there was a local company they bought into and Blaine Brantner again, you know he's influenced me in golf and now he's on this team of ownership that company I'm working for and I did a paper. My two favorite classes in college were from Dr Minor and Dr Mueller and they were both around entrepreneurship and business because they were real world. I'm not very academically smart myself, but I love real world experiences and that's what I relate to. So they impacted me. I had to do a paper. I actually interviewed Michael D Hardy who was the owner of what was Northern Capital Trust Lane, had to sit in the room with that and did a paper on it.

Speaker 1 8:22

Fast forward, bell Bank was very excited to grow the assets through HSAs, to leverage them to become really a national brand. Right, they have big dreams of what they want to do which are so fun to follow. So they wanted me to sell and Leslie Johnson, leslie Birdie now was on our sales team, then Jeff Brunsberg was the sales leader and they just Blaine Brantner said it said a vision, we're going to go market through brokers and consultants highly relational, right, I lived in the market so I could travel a bunch down in Texas and meet some of these people. Didn't know the first thing about selling, but I knew people through golf. I knew how to relate to people.

Speaker 1 9:01

I was a hard worker, I had structure and discipline and I was going to like right away Alyssa Tennyson. She was on her team, she had the, she was on the leader of the scoreboard. I said I don't know how long it's going to take, but I'm going to be on the top of that leaderboard. Now I'm transitioning from, like, my competitiveness and golf to take it over and so I'm like I'm going to go do it. It might take some time. That is my goal, clear goal and tirelessly work towards becoming the best sales individual I could through trial and error and I'm doing it with people that I love still do in a fast paced, healthy environment. Um, there was nothing better than having those victories and growing a region, a territory, relationships and a company along with others.

Speaker 2 9:47

Moving again from that individual contributor role. You're living down in Fort Worth, completely changing your entire paradigm. Now you're working for somebody else, even though it's the same people writing some of the same checks. Now they're asking you to do something a little bit differently, which I think is kind of interesting. So no real formal sales training, as it were. But I mean that 90% of sales, as you know, it's just shown up. Now you are having to rely on others for information, perhaps that you don't have, or having to rely on others for business that you don't have. That you're trying to gather. You're trying to gather what were the specific transferable skills that you brought into your sales career as a seller from your experience in professional golf, mindset, work ethic, relatability to others, find a connection as fast as possible.

Speaker 1 10:35

You know people in Texas. The narrative was they won't do business with anybody that doesn't live in Texas, and so I was local. That helped. Whether it was the narrative was true or not. I think that we've proven over the years that they will do business with people outside of of Texas. But you had to break down some barriers, and one of those barriers was do you know the local market? Do you know what the Dallas Mavs are doing? Do you know where I like my favorite bagels from? Like, what's the local? I want to feel. I want to feel it Right, and so I worked hard.

Building a Sales Career at Discovery Benefits

Speaker 1 11:03

Also, people in Texas transfer trust before they instead of you having to earn it, and I would say that's true for Georgia market as well. Atlanta, kind, kind people. Um, they want to do business with people of of character within the channel we sold. They want people that are dependable, reliable, like this is who we were as a company, it's who I was was an as an individual, and we just kind of grew it slowly, but over time it snowballed in the right direction for sure.

Speaker 2 11:31

And now you're still in Fort Worth. How many years did you stay in Fort Worth?

Speaker 1 11:34

It's a good question, so so Katie was teaching and I was working out of our, our house, I decided I wanted to run a half marathon. So Mark Johnson would always go down and run the half marathon. So I trained for that to stay competitive and get out of the house a little bit. And then that next June Katie was pregnant, due in September. She finished out the school year.

Speaker 1 11:56

We came up here and you know I talk about feeling things deeply. Change has been. I reflect unbelievably deeply in change has been. I reflect unbelievably deeply in change and this, this like chapter over. With that, I have, like I've just been so fortunate. I have so many good memories and I just remember, like you know, weeping with Don Johnson, like in a good, healthy way, after I finished hole 18 at the Ohio state course I by birdie the last hole there, uh, my last hole my college career. My mom's hanging out behind the green giving her a big right and crying it's done well. Leaving Fort Worth is a special place. I remember just taking the shower and letting it flow, like I'm just weeping and like, okay, let's get it out and let's change. And so that was a Fort Worth. We have some deep relationships still there. People have different connotations of of, of Texas and whatnot. But Fort Worth felt Midwestern, the people were great, the culture was great and we, just, we just loved every moment of it.

Speaker 2 12:54

Yeah, and so what year did you move to Fargo?

Speaker 1 12:58

That would have been 2000, 2008. Claire was born into the fall September of 2008. We would have got here in June and that's when I'd come into the home office of Discovery Benefits.

Speaker 2 13:07

You've ever had. You've got the acumen, at least from a, from a mindset perspective, the competitive spirit. The one thing that interests me for anybody that makes career changes specifically from professional sports to you know, maybe a more traditional quote, unquote job or day to day is that in professional sport, golf specifically, I mean you have a four to five hour period of time where you are competing constantly with yourself or with others or with the golf course, and you can scratch that itch pretty regularly every day if you wanted to. Right Now you're in a situation where you are trying to build a pipeline, work opportunities through a pipeline as well as build relationships and ultimately close business to drive revenue, and then even then you're probably not seeing the fruits of that labor financially until a little bit down the road. What did you do to keep your competitive juices flowing, as it were, to scratch that itch of that innate and just extreme competitive streak that you have, of that innate and just extreme competitive streak that you have Early on.

Speaker 1 14:26

It was wake up early, stay late, go meet as many people as you can go, learn as much as you can. It was there. I mean I was competing. It was competing against every this is the underdog from Fargo. Still we're out of Fargo and going to go compete with the biggest and the best and the locals and the regionals, but I'm going to go. I have competition and the best and the locals and the regionals, but I'm going to go. I have competition out there and everybody's trying to call consultants and I'm going to go beat every one of them and I'm going to do it the right way over time, consistently, making the small decisions, following through writing.

Speaker 1 14:57

We wrote personal thank you notes to everybody we met with. We sent them those chippers and we meant it. We understood a broker different than anybody I have seen at the time or experienced since in how valuable and important they are. And we knew their personas. We knew what they liked, we knew what they wanted to hear and we delivered it as an organization. More often than not, when we didn't, we were humble enough to say sorry or we screwed up. We're not going to do it again. It was the dependability, the know you, like you, trust you. It was consistently doing that, over and over and over, bringing the right people on growing like crazy.

Speaker 2 15:36

What number of employee were you? Do you recall?

Speaker 1 15:39

I was below a hundred. I think I was 90th give or take in 2008. Yeah, got it, maybe 60.

Speaker 2 16:06

All right. So you're on the bleeding edge of this brand new organization, or relatively new organization within within state bank which which had had it become bell bank at that point.

Speaker 1 16:14

Not, it was right around there, they could correct us. But yeah, it was still state, bank and trust, but it was discovery benefits. We were the brand of the market and the bank was the owner and supporter.

Speaker 2 16:26

Yeah, how did the broker channel come to be Like? Why, why that?

Speaker 1 16:30

Lane Brantner worked at a big four consulting firm and worked out of two places One, it was Kansas city and then he moved to Fort Worth and I got to my sophomore year. I got to play a lot of golf with Lane and Brad and Travis's buddies, which was very enjoyable. They joined shady Oaks as junior members and just to have that local face was so important to me and really fun. But he was the brains behind the idea of what a broker is and the value of how you can grow your pipeline immensely rather than going direct. And so they threw a dart at a map and landed in Atlanta and I think he and Jeff Brunsberg flew down and tried to understand how to sell a story. And it was just trip by trip, conversation by conversation.

Speaker 1 17:16

Somebody took a chance on us. We proved ourselves and got another one. Boy, it sounds simple when you say it. Boy, it sounds simple when you say it. It is an unrelenting focus on who your buyer is and where your opportunities are going to come from, and then what they expect of you, based on the products and services that you're asking. And if you can figure that out and do it well and consistently, there's opportunity there. And we were able to do that.

Speaker 2 17:48

Well and clearly you figured it out individually. As a seller, I mean extremely decorated multiple green jackets and, for those that are listening, green jacket was a million dollars sold per year and you're selling stuff for 50 cents $5. So selling a million dollars is a heck of an accomplishment. You did that how many times, would you say? I don't know.

Speaker 1 18:10

Too many to remember. I don't know.

Speaker 2 18:12

Where did the green jacket thing come from?

Speaker 1 18:14

Well, I think the first year that that this was going to happen, and I don't remember the year exactly Um, Matt and John were looking for a way to recognize people. We had an annual kind of winter dinner and they were going to do something.

Speaker 2 18:29

Matt Feer and.

Speaker 1 18:30

John Bewer. John was the president, matt was the sales leader at the time and I don't know. They probably knew I golfed, they liked golf and we just need to recognize somebody in a unique way. So that's where that took off. And you know, those evenings I still have videos of some of them and pictures to look back on. And you talk about modeling something.

Speaker 1 18:57

We were growing fast, hiring a lot of people, and this is getting into leadership more than individual. But even for me, when I did that the first time, there were people in the room like I want that and you've talked about this, I want that. How do I do that? Healthy it weren't perfect, but a healthy, competitive, genuine culture that we were going to share, how we did everything with each other, and we did that over and over and over. And I mean those, those, the individuals that we brought on over the years to then see them.

Creating a Culture of Healthy Competition

Speaker 1 19:30

Those are the most special because it's not about you, it's about now. They've. They've set a goal and this is the idea of leading, loving and serving people towards their full potential. That's been my mission, that's the coaching, the development. Jason Christian would always call us. You're the CEO of the company, the chief encouragement officer, mindset encouragement you can do this. Belief in people, and from the heart like deep. You can't fake that, you can't. And people feel it, they know it or not, and we had leaders and people that, right here, at the heart level, care deeply for other people's success. That is a special. That is a special environment.

Speaker 2 20:07

Well, it's not normal, and when you come into something and I'll, and I'll just inject myself in here super quick which you know, I came on board in 2013 and clearly the the recipe had been written that, okay, the broker channel clearly is a is the way to go, and when I came along, it was more just like how do we continue scaling this to a to a level that allows us to be able to meet the needs that have been identified within this broker market? But when you're put in a situation where it is truly sharing a best practices, you know, I I think very fondly on the fact that, cause I came from the pharmaceutical arena, right when you were, you were truly force ranked against others, meaning there was. You had a great year. That's awesome for you, but that meant that I was just going to make less money, even if I had a very good year too.

Speaker 2 21:03

The way Discovered Benefits was operating at the time and still we're very fortunate for the most part operates today even after the acquisition by WEX is that and you've got a lot to do with this by requiring that remain consistent, because if you're put in a situation where somebody else's success does not negatively impact your own individual success, incredible things become possible we joke a lot about. I think about my first couple of weeks with Matt Fears as the sales leader, right, and it was just like what sort of training and onboarding did you have? Well, here's your list of your offices get a pat on the back, go get them. It might sound somewhat tongue in cheek, but that's literally what it was. I mean, it was learning from Mike Hagan, it was learning from you, it was learning from Zach Hansen and Jason Christensen, and just sitting in and learning and just baptism by fire. You could look back on that and say because I'm sure it was that even escalated for you at the beginning. I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.

Speaker 1 22:01

Yeah, I tend to agree with it At that phase of the company, this isn't that hard. We hired you for a reason. You made it. We were very selective. We had tons of great friends and it's the people you hire. It's the people you surround yourself with. But if you hire the right people, anybody can go connect with a consultant. You'll learn as you go and it was a beautiful.

Speaker 1 22:24

There was freedom in that, so to say. Now you need to get to some organization, get to the level. Well, yeah, we got to have something a little more stronger than this, but at that level, first of all, think about the deep relationships we organically built because you get to go, spend more time with each other, modeling what good looks like and learning from others. You get to add we have blind spots, so you got to add some unique experience and thoughts that you would have brought in from pharmaceutical, for instance, and others did the same. It was a living and breathing process. It was a live. We talk about trust, the process, it. It was always getting better. Nobody was threatened by it.

Speaker 2 22:59

No.

Speaker 1 23:00

Because we never arrived. And if you have that humility around, I have never arrived. I have value, like I'm. I have a confidence in myself, but I'm also I'm also open to teachability from other high performers. Boy, you can get better quick.

Speaker 2 23:18

Well you can, performers, boy, you can get better quick. Well you can. And and the secret sauce there is making sure that you uh, I think the term that you've used in the past and perhaps it's a, it's a John Bewer, but it's like fiercely protect that, that culture, and you know culture is used so flippantly these days Right, and it's oh, we've got a great culture, we've got a great culture in it. What does that mean? I mean cause it's not overly tangible. I mean you can't touch it, you can't smell it, you can't taste it, you can't, you can't feel it or, excuse me, but you can feel it.

Speaker 2 23:46

Right, you know you, you can't put your finger on it, but it's that energy that you feel when you walk in a room of of, of collaboration and others wanting to, to push you towards that success. And I think that is uncommon and it just you know you got to skin the cat your own way and and to me, that was just extremely refreshing for me as an individual contributor, coming in on the team and being surrounded in that environment, because there were people that were modeling that behavior, such as yourself that had had success, and you were. You didn't really have much left to prove by the time I got there and cause you transitioned into leadership in what 2016, 2016. Okay, so a couple of years after that, a couple of years after that.

Speaker 1 24:29

Yeah, I mean early on, discovery benefits was bleeding money. That's the reality of the deal. And there John Bewer took over president in roughly 09. He was operationally minded, numbers minded. We didn't really have a CFO from my memory.

Speaker 1 24:44

D Fiori came on just after that and there were a lot of naysayers that said just watch this thing fold. The bank's going to lose money on this. Truly, he turned it around faster than anybody thought he would. And I know Solberg and Lane had a deep belief in John. You said watch this guy, this is the guy. But John Bewer, you think of a country club guy, flashy no, he's the Edgewood guy and I don't mean that and he's just humble, hardworking. Nothing was flashy for anybody and that was modeled for us. We're going to go, pull up our bootstraps, we're going to prove people wrong and it's that that thing that Michael Jordan would tell himself like we're, I don't care what anybody else says, it's bulletin board material, let's go. And that's that's what you felt when you came. We're just, we're just. We're just a bunch of hardworking people aligned.

Speaker 2 25:35

A bunch of hardworking people aligned, and freedom. I think the freedom that Solberg and Bell provided to John and the rest of you all, and eventually all of us at Discovery to, because the environment that that I experienced, that you all had built built before I got there. I didn't feel pressure, I felt comfort in the time that it was going to inevitably take. That was a feeling when you start unpacking. You know what culture really is and, as as you were building this along the way, at what point did you realize perhaps we're onto something really, really, really special here?

Speaker 1 26:30

I didn't know anything different. I thought every company operated this way. It was the only one I'd work at other than my paper out, my golf ball business and professional golfer, um, but it was clear early on. The. The deep level of trust I think is a word that I go back to. You talk about comfort, but there's there, there was empowerment, there was trust, it was entrepreneurial and we were producing. So you don't get asked as many questions when you're, when you're having the success. It's like I think John and Mike knew the people that we were surrounding ourselves with bringing on growing in an intentional way. So I, I knew it was special.

Speaker 1 27:08

Early I sold for probably what was that? Eight years, and on year six, I'm like I think I could do this in my sleep and that's not good for a competitive person, and I struggled and it was probably okay, like you're producing, like I could have been, it was fine. But for me that's not how I was built and and so I like what is next? What is next? And I was looking elsewhere, um, and then, ultimately, a couple of the individuals in our leadership team went somewhere else and I, I, I firmly believe you're always interviewing, you're proving yourself over time. Your character is exposed under pressure and leadership's responsibility is to see what the future looks like and build into people. And they had started a leadership program that they were developing us, which kept us there, and so it was just like that.

Transitioning from Seller to Leader

Speaker 1 27:53

It was a very fortunate timing where I hadn't, I hadn't left, and then another opportunity came about, and then it's like this is this, is these are big shoes to fill, and I I was the captain of the golf team my senior year, but I I didn't probably truly know what leadership looked like other than what I'd seen modeled in good people. So I took a lot of that. But I also had a business coach. Uh, he listened to the words. Words matter, right. Words matter deeply in leadership. You have to choose them carefully. You have to communicate with passion. You need to connect with people deeply. These things were somewhat natural for me, but I had a lot to learn at the same time, and so, again, just the people that continued to make me better as I transitioned into that leadership phase were really impactful to that leadership phase were really impactful.

Speaker 2 28:42

You've spoken in the past around some of just the emotional and mental toll that that took on you. Whatever you feel comfortable sharing today is completely up to you, but I feel like that is extremely understandable, knowing that you've gone from again being that highly decorated individual contributor, massively successful really throughout your entire life, at everything you've. You've really done up to this point and I don't think I'm exaggerating that. Now, all of a sudden, you are responsible for others their lives, their families, or at least that's how perhaps a new leader could internalize that. Right that this is all now on. You talk maybe a little bit about that transition, um, and to the level of which you feel comfort you know, just how that impacted you individually.

Speaker 1 29:28

Well, I'm an anxious person by nature and a word like I do, I do worry.

Speaker 1 29:33

I do have a tendency to get fear-based, though Maybe I can exude some confidence Right, and so we all have insecurities if we're honest with ourselves and so I had never experienced anxiety quite like I did when I took over leadership, though it was a time where you're growing a family, you that motivated me to go produce, and I want to have Katie attain her dreams and support her incredibly well. And so there's there's different angles of pressure. You know, when you have your own sales number, like I, I'll get up and I'll go do it and that's I can control that, so to say in parentheses. But but to take over a team that had tons of success already, I really needed to define what what success in my role would look like. However, I was in new territory, which I like pressed upon more than I had realized, maybe in the past yeah.

Speaker 2 30:46

Yeah, so what did you do with that information? How did you work your way through?

Speaker 1 30:50

that. That's a good question. At that time, I started working with Frank, a business coach, and so an outsider's perspective. The lie we believe is that leadership is lonely. It's lonely at the top, and I was only at the. I wasn't at the top of the company or anything but like okay. It doesn't have to be, though, and if anybody's listening, that can be encouraged by that. One of my biggest downfalls is internalizing things and trying to manage them on my own when I've got an unbelievable amount of people that are there for me to support me Okay. So don't believe the lie. Leadership is lonely or you're lonely.

Speaker 1 31:25

This idea of working from home has produced an unbelievable amount of loneliness and people. I don't think we're handling it as well as we, as we should or could. I would. I would Katie again, I go back to the support. She is stable. Again I go back to the support. She is stable, steady, wise, dependable and has a high level of character, and it's those things in which I mean you're only as good, as in this case, my spouse really Like she was there, and I had other great men in my life as well, but, but katie has really been the one where I can trust in deeply and and process. Um, I at times had a couple drinks to try to subside it right, and that doesn't work. Um, I hadn't. I hadn't run to that really much at all as an individual contributor, and so just an awareness around is this going to lead to health or is this going to lead to destruction?

Speaker 2 32:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2 32:28

So I'd like to stop here for a second, just because I think everybody has crossroads in their lives, right, where things present themselves that either are within our control or that aren't in our control, right, and we can obviously think of the myriad of things that could come up that are not inside of our control when life sort of just happens to you. But in this scenario, from an outsider's perspective, I mean you were living a dream. I mean you had moved from a top individual contributor to taking over the sales team now and being responsible and being the captain of the ship, right, I would imagine for some people it would be like well, what could he possibly be stressed out about? What could he possibly be anxious about? Why would he need to consider having a couple of drinks? Right, because now he's living the dream, he's, he's working his way up.

Speaker 2 33:17

Now you talked a little bit about, you know, utilizing the business coach and just perhaps kind of clearing the mechanism a little bit around the way in which you're processing information and the way Katie was able to help be that kind of steady individual for you. But what was it about that experience that you'd say prompted you then to move into kind of owning that, that role or that identity, as it were, because we haven't really talked much about identity yeah.

Speaker 2 33:46

Identity yeah, so I yeah, that's, that's good.

Speaker 1 33:48

I, you know, I would often say to the team and it's a maybe, it's one of the axioms like you're more valuable than your results, you're not your results, you're accountable for them. But that like identity is such a like who do we believe? We are at the root of it, and in college I made a decision like my faith was going to be very, very important to me and that hasn't been easy. That's a challenge, like if anybody thinks that faith is easy, I mean it's not. There's trials in life. Where are you going to go when those trials come up? So that was. That was very foundational to how Katie and I set up our marriage. And into the trials in life, what do we go to and why?

Speaker 1 34:29

But I would always be tied to a golf score and everybody could see it. I would always be tied to a leaderboard individually, everybody could see it. Tied to a leaderboard individually, everybody could see it. Now I am, I am tied to this number millions, tens, twenties. What are you going to do with that information? And you have some good days and you have some bad days, and understanding who you are and what's most important and how you are valued. But people need to know like you're more than a sales number. We need to, we need to preach that because if we believe that's who we are, at our core or my golf score, good luck. And I say that from experience of being in the valley, of of trying to deal with that result being who I am and it's just, it's just not going to end well because you're going to have some bumps and what do you do with those bumps? We tend to handle them alone, in shame, in guilt, in unhealthy ways.

Speaker 2 35:29

You've been known to say you know you listen to yourself, or talk to yourself versus listen to yourself, right? I mean, that sounds to me like this would be an example of that right, when perhaps some of the the tangible victories of being on the top of a leaderboard weren't present because you you necessarily you weren't competing against anybody per se, other than maybe just an intrinsic.

Speaker 1 35:49

I wanted to beat my previous years of sales. That was me, yeah, I. I that's what I wanted to do, because it was it was uncapped. I just wanted to. That was fun about sales Like go kill something. It was, it was uncapped. I just wanted that was fun about sales Like go kill something bring it home and be rewarded.

Speaker 2 36:06

Yeah, dopamine, yeah, exactly yeah, dopamine makes makes the world go around, or or so we think why?

Speaker 2 36:08

why we spend hours on our phone trying to get those, get those hits, but again, you know you don't have that now as a as a leader, right, you don't. And again, you don't have that now as a leader, right, you don't have that leaderboard per se. As I've been asked over the years by people who have shown interest or thought that maybe they should get into a leadership type position, I've said well, from my humble opinion, there's two questions you need to ask yourself, right? Number one are you okay being responsible for things that are outside of your control? And that comes straight from from Kirby smart. Um, you know his cost of leadership. Uh, I think that's one of the best quotes and speeches that that I personally have ever heard, you know. So are you okay being responsible for things that are outside of your control? And then, number two do you enjoy watching people win, or help or supporting other people win as much or more as you did yourself? How would you answer those two questions?

Speaker 1 37:09

The second aspect is where my mission statement was drawn from drawn from Lead, love and serve people towards their full potential. It is why you tear up watching people win their first deal, why you get joy when you see the green jacket being put on somebody. Yes, so yes to the second question. The first question is the core thing I have had to work through is influence and control. What is leadership? Leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less. When you have empowerment, accountability, control, I'm able to release that control easier. I'm supporting, I'm removing barriers.

Speaker 1 37:59

You know, in leadership it's not always winning, it's a lot of issues and losing. And coaching mindset and being positive with people. And what did you learn? What can we draw from this? Like asking questions, Like I've learned to ask questions like crazy, both in sales and in leadership. So the control aspect when things get tight, I want more control and that doesn't serve me well. So letting go of the result and you're doing everything within your empowerment and influence to help, but also holding it loosely at the same time that's, that's been a learning moment for me.

Speaker 2 38:36

I think that's that's a very common thing is is for high performers to want, either consciously or subconsciously want more control when things are perhaps out of their control. How did you work your way through that? I mean, was that something that you identified early? Was that something that you identified? You know kind of as you were working through that process.

Speaker 1 38:53

It was a blind spot. It was a blind spot for sure, and I think the biggest area was for the biggest question, moving into leadership, was these these are my friends.

Speaker 2 39:01

Yeah.

Leadership Challenges and Mental Health

Speaker 1 39:02

How am I going to lead my friends? Cause that that is a tough. It's tough going from individual contributor to leader and it's also tough leading. And I go back to Dr Henry cloud, the book boundaries and you can be friends. There's the lie that you can't be friends and lead people. You can be friends and you can lead them. Well, you just have to set healthy boundaries. And so there's been times where I've said the words is this a friend conversation or a business conversation? It's actually like the cipher between the two, and I learned that from that book Boundaries and that was very helpful because that was my core. I almost it was like there was this trepidation because I don't want to ruin my friendships because I valued them that much. Right, yeah, it worked out, I think, very well. We've been able to work through challenges and joys and have successes and do it in the healthiest way possible. Not perfect, but I think I wouldn't do it over again.

Speaker 2 39:59

No, I would completely agree with you. I think one of the things that you've well, one of the many things that you've taught me over the years, is that comfortability of just saying out loud some of the things that many people perhaps don't feel comfortable saying out loud. Right, and the best teams are built on trust and communication period and the few times that, as you and I started working together, you know more closely and more intimately around just kind of the shape of things as the team was progressing. You were very open and honest and clear, just like hey, look, there is nothing that's going to come between our personal that will impact our personal relationship. Right, these are simply business conversations and I think you know we could agree, that you know we didn't always agree on certain things and that you know not to make it about our relationship. But as far as your leadership goes, it's one thing that I just I really loved is like look, you can have your cake and eat it too.

Speaker 2 41:02

I talk a lot about the Venn diagram of personal, professional, and for me I prefer a tight overlap there because it makes it easier, if one is able to communicate in a healthy way with those individuals that are friends, to say look, I love you, I care about you. My first inclination is to make sure that you are healthy, happy and your family's in a great spot. I also have obligations to the organization professionally that require me sometimes to ask you questions that you might not want to have to answer around accountability right that you can have your cake and eat it too, and if you lay on a bed of trust and love and respect generally, in my experience those conversations become easier. Would you agree or disagree with?

Speaker 1 41:42

that A thousand percent. I mean it's the heart in which we're leading with and people can feel that very quickly and if you do it consistently over time and they know you're for them, it allows the ability to have those tougher conversations. And it's no different than marriage, it's no different than friendships. What is your heart posture towards somebody Right? And we have to continue to die to ourselves. Put our pride aside. We see an opportunity to have a conversation that's going to benefit you, benefit the company, whomever, all day long.

Speaker 1 42:16

I grew up we often grow up in the Midwest with stuffing down our, our, our thoughts and we've we've seen that modeled and then, therefore, we've done it and so some of like this idea, like we have, we have we eat crucial conversations for lunch. That's a saying we've said over the. We eat them for lunch. These are not Michelle Larson, these are not personal, these are business. We're going to talk about things. Healthy teams have tough conversations. Healthy teams have healthy disagreement.

Speaker 1 42:52

We all have blind spots. We're doing our best to make the best decisions, but how can we get so live in reality? Do you think or do you know is another axiom. Do you think or do you know? So do we have the humility as leaders to say I think I'm thinking about this right. What? What do you all think? What am I missing here? The more you can do that, you have to make the tough decision someday, and in leadership, this is my biggest lesson. You're not going to make everybody happy, and if you're in it to please people, you're in the wrong position. Get over yourself, and I again this was, this was part of the maturing process for me as a leader. Are you trying?

Speaker 2 43:27

to keep everybody happy, well, and if you're not happy yourself, you don't have a chance.

Speaker 1 43:30

What do you have to offer?

Speaker 2 43:31

There are so many things that I've learned over the years and in in my studies of time and energy and the way in which those that have been successful, at least. Again, from my experience, the number one thing is you have to know who you are as an individual. You have to know what you have to offer, right To the best of your ability, all the while understanding that blind spots are going to continuously present themselves over time. Right, but if you don't, as a leader, know what you have to offer, how can you possibly lead somebody towards something? Because leadership doesn't just stay within the walls. I mean, that's the difference between a boss or a manager and a leader. Right? Leadership transcends organizational boundaries. Nobody's modeled that better than than you have, certainly for me. But they say that 86% of first year leaders fail. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 1 44:25

There's a lack of. I'm answering this really quickly, so I'm sure that I have, but what I go to right away is you often don't put the people in the right positions. Number one you don't. It's this idea of we're always interviewing or, as a leader, we're always building our pipeline of future leaders. How are you mentoring, how are you investing? So we think like, let's just say, Andy, okay, he's at the top of the lead board, he must be the next leader. That's not the right assumption. Leadership. They've, they've, they've watched me for for eight years.

Speaker 1 44:58

To that point Do I, do I speak up and and align with the vision in certain situations, so others buy in like you are always interviewing, you have opportunity to always interview. Maybe that's even a better like take, like support the vision. Um, and then I just I just think there's a there's a lack of time that often leaders have, and I've met with companies over the last few months that need help in these areas. I don't have the time to build into my sales leader, or I don't have the time. They're so busy with themselves.

Speaker 1 45:32

So we talk about the Q2, the important, but not urgent. That is it. It's solely important that you build a pipeline of future leaders. It's solely important that you have a hiring process, that you're going to identify the right leader, and it's solely important that you spend time with your leaders, providing the vision, removing barriers, understanding what their goals are and supporting them like crazy to move into the future. And if you can start to think that way, and supporting them like crazy to move into the future and if you can start to think that way, boy, it gets really fun.

Speaker 2 46:05

Hard to do, but worth every moment of it. Let's have the hard conversation now around what happens when you believe you're unable to fulfill those commitments.

Speaker 1 46:11

As a leader. As a leader, so you're unable to invest the time that you want to.

Speaker 2 46:17

Or perhaps maybe you're not supported organizationally to be able to do that. So now maybe, perhaps transitioning to I've gone through a lot of change here over the last few months and working your way out of WEX and back into learning a little bit more about yourself, learning a little bit more about your family and just rekindling a lot of those things that are immensely important to you. Um, I I believe to be true there had to be an impetus somewhere that would suggest that that maybe the level of influence, or maybe the the, your ability to honor what you were hoping or what you were able to honor once previously, you know, maybe didn't quite fill the bucket or allow you to continue moving forward in the way that you want it to.

Speaker 1 46:59

That's good. I I have. Um, I say that I've had the unbelievable opportunity for working for a privately held fast growing organization all the lessons and trials and joys of that and I've had the significant privilege of of of working for a global, public, fast growing company that grew differently through organic and inorganic growth, larger obviously 8,000 employees versus 800. Like what a gift. Yeah, I mean, what a gift. Now you want to talk about change, and where I was at my worst mentally was when the predictable became unpredictable, like what you believed you were coming into every day you just didn't know, which wasn't a bad thing, you just didn't know. But for me, predictability, I needed it.

Speaker 2 47:48

How did that become unpredictable?

Speaker 1 47:50

Because it's just new ownership. What does the future hold? You just don't know. And I don't operate well in that environment that well. So that was the most challenging moment, to the point where I was getting an EKG three months into the acquisition to see are you having a heart attack here, sir, or what? No, you just need to chill Like where's your faith. Just take a deep breath, breathe dude so but. But that's like it just rattled me to the core, and then I would, I would, I would you know, talk to other people about it.

Speaker 1 48:21

I'd be, I'm, I'm, very open about talking about some of these challenges. Um, cause, I believe that that people are there to care for me and and and love of, okay, new organization, understanding how to operate. How do we set goals? You have the grieving of losing unbelievable people through planned exits, through John Beaver, through Mike DeFiore, through Suzanne Rare, through Brian Carey, people that you were just daily seeing them and all of a sudden they're gone. Oh, okay, I have to like, what do I do with that? That's sad. I'm happy for them, but that's that's sad to me moving into covid holy cow. So the the unbelievable leadership opportunities and the team were, were, were unbelievable did you see it as opportunity at the time?

Speaker 1 49:16

to um, I know, reflecting like it was challenging. Yeah, like we were all figuring out what to do. It was anxiety ridden. Yeah, how do we lead through this? How do we connect with consultants when we can't travel? Are we going to grow? Are we not like things you care about for your team? Yeah, so no, I didn't. I didn't see it as opportunity until years after. Didn't see it as opportunity until years after. Um, yeah, and then I think, just an um, honest assessment of like I think I've done everything I can for the organization, honestly, um, and and releasing your like you gotta hold things open-handed. You got to, and so for me, it was coming to the point where, uh, a little burnout was there, right, A little.

Speaker 1 50:01

Yeah, a lot, whether you know it or not.

Speaker 2 50:04

Not to put you on the spot. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 50:05

No, you're spot on. Like I was burned out. I was trying to do everything I can for the team to serve and to like continue to do the best for the organization and at some point you got to make a is this, is this the future for me? And just a united decision with Katie to say I think we believe deeply that this is the time to step away from the organization, as tough as it is. So that that, yeah. So I think you know, I think there's in a fast growing public company.

Speaker 1 51:00

You know you talk about time from leaders and whatnot. I think you gotta you gotta communicate right and ask for what you need. If that's the environment you got to, um, find others that you can confide in and and be encouraged by. I mean, I think the leaders want the best for people Like I believe that I just think, um, there there's opportunity, clear communication always.

Stepping Away and Finding New Purpose

Speaker 1 51:27

How can you get encouraged? What expectations do you have coming in every day and are they? Are they fair or not? How can you, how can you promote the vision and add to it versus deflecting from it? What fills your bucket in your role that you get to run to every day? Right For me, if I would have done anything differently, it's like, oh, okay, like I didn't get on the road very much, I got comfortable being at home when a few trips. But like, okay, andy, like get like you love being with people, get out and see the remote team get out and see the remote team get out and see consultants. So, just if anybody wants to listen to that, like there's opportunity there. There's nothing better than winning hearts and minds in the consulting channel.

Speaker 2 52:09

You. You've been very consistent in that and I've I've taken that to heart, uh, personally. But I in my, my wife Alyssa, said the exact same thing to me as I was processing going out to Denver in January before our sales conference out in Orlando, and Alyssa almost pushed me out the door. It was like you have to go, you have to go. You always come back with more energy, you always come back happier, you always come back with a better mindset around the team and just where you're at. So thanks to both you and her for that I had those same feelings.

Speaker 1 52:44

You have a family that you're leaving.

Speaker 2 52:46

Yeah, that's hard for me.

Speaker 1 52:48

I hated, as it was easy taking 25 trips early on when you're young, naive and like I'm going to go do it, I can come back, I'm going to miss Katie, but like so then you have one child, two children. Like I remember, we had a baby. Graham is our second child. The next day I was out to Houston presenting in a finals, I got to go provide for this kid. It was tough, but over time it's like man, these are, they're tough. So I think, if you, if you see things different, like how many, how many trips can I take a year? 10. Okay, 10 seem reasonable. Three are going to be internal. I'm going to go on seven trips, alyssa, you aligned with that? Yes, okay, alyssa, each time I leave I miss you dearly, I miss our kids, but I'm doing this for your benefit and their benefit. I'm going to come home refreshed and a better dad and husband because of it. If you have that mindset, what's possible?

Speaker 2 53:34

I can't improve on that. How would you compare the stresses of providing via finalist for your family versus trying to birdie the last two to make a cut?

Speaker 1 53:48

I want to win the finalist more than I want to birdie the last. Here's what happens. It's all mindset. Early on, I wanted to birdie every hole and then, when your heart isn't in it, you're coming down the stretch in a tight lies tour event, staying at a super eight rooming with two guys you know you don't really know them trying to spend 20 bucks to you know and you're not really that interested in getting to know them either no, I mean maybe not maybe.

Speaker 1 54:09

I mean I had good roommates. I don't say I know it's.

Speaker 2 54:11

You know, yeah, you're there to do a job. You're there, you're working.

Speaker 1 54:14

It's like yeah it's a friday, katie's getting done teaching. See, I'm in. I'm in shreveport tonight. If I miss this putt, I can get home by six and we go to the casino oh man, oh man, so I think there's a no.

Speaker 2 54:28

If I had a family and, like I, was good at golf and like you know all these kinds of things.

Speaker 1 54:32

Maybe you're you know it's a little different, but I can see how that can. That can screw with your mind and a finalist. Nope, this is. This is what I am committed to. It's what katie and I are committed to for the future, supported greatly. I'm going to go win this deal to provide into our future so, november 2024, make the decision to unplug from your.

Speaker 2 54:53

How long were you at dbi wax?

Speaker 1 54:55

yeah, just under 18 years.

Speaker 2 54:57

It was 18 years january 18 years, not quite half your life, but many of the formative years.

Speaker 1 55:05

It's march 28th today where you at the first 60 days were an extended Thanksgiving Christmas vacation, and when you make a decision in faith, you don't know what's ahead. You're eager to learn, but you don't know, and I had a job opportunity that I was somewhat interested in in January that I ultimately passed on, and it was the best decision I've ever made, as tough as the last 60 to 90 days have been since then.

Speaker 2 55:45

And so this was when this was in January, in January, okay.

Speaker 1 55:48

And so think about, you're like, okay, I've got 18 years of experience and I somewhat have the ability to use that experience into the future. And I say no. And it's like, oh, what do I do into the future? And I say no. And it's like, oh, what do I do? And I had to be comfortable with looking at myself in the mirror and asking who have I become and where am I going and where are we going? And I say our family, katie and I, and that do I have the courage to do that and look at the joys and also the, the things that aren't so fun to always look at and the things I would regret, or the what would I do differently? And how do those balance each other out? I'm a deep feeler, as I mentioned. I would call this a midlife transition. I've I've played 18 holes of my career. I have roughly 18 left.

Speaker 1 56:40

The mental aspect of just like being what it's done is I didn't know what my pride was doing to me. I didn't know what my ego was doing to me. I didn't know what the narrative I was telling myself was doing to me in a couple of challenging years. And those came to pass. They rose up from stuff down. Okay, now, what do I do? Was doing to me in a couple challenging years, and those came to pass. They rose up from stuff down. Okay, now, what do I do? And it has led to me. It's led to a softness and a and I think, a tenderness in a, in a positive way, along with conviction, if that makes sense. Um, in ways that I could have never imagined.

Speaker 2 57:34

I'm going to ask you to to dig to take a little bit there, if you don't mind it. I'm not purposefully trying to draw out emotion, but what you just said there is incredibly impactful Tenderness. Say that one more time. You identified it. A softness, a softness, a tenderness.

Speaker 1 57:54

And a tenderness with a conviction.

Speaker 2 57:56

With a conviction, there we go. Okay, yeah, tell me more about that.

Speaker 1 58:01

Yeah, well, um, the narrative. So I, katie and I, will look back at this time and we will look back and say that was the moment Andy's leadership within our marriage was reinvigorated. Um, you talk about some of the mental challenges over the last couple of years. I convinced myself by telling myself it's just a gentle, it's just a sentence, I'm not needed here, I'm not needed here. Well, if I would have taken that captive or said, katie, I'm telling myself this and I may have over the time there, but it's like, hey, nick, I'm telling myself this. Do you think that's true of me? And this is where you get suffocated by trying to internalize. I got to make a decision here in the next couple of years on what I'm going to do next, and it's not something you're going to share with a bunch of people. But so okay. So, andy, I'm not needed here, I'm not going to take that job. They don't need you, katie. Do you need me? Graham, claire, charlie, jack, do you need me? Anybody looking at this from the outside would say Andy, you idiot.

Speaker 2 59:19

That's even harsh on myself. I'm not going to be harsh on myself, but Andy.

Speaker 1 59:24

No, you idiot, that's even harsh on myself. I'm not going to be harsh on myself. But, andy, no, you're right. Yeah, do you do you? Can you see straight? No, I was. I've been confused because of the narrative. At times I'm telling myself and how that has impacted Katie, how that's impacted others, how it's impacted some friendships Holy cow, look at that in the mirror and try to turn that around. So now, reinforcing that with, with positive, um, with truth, really not just positive, like no, I'm, I'm needed greatly and um, what are you going to do with that? What are you going to do to step up in these areas? So there's the conviction side of things that, yes, I'm going to move into this Um and by move into this you mean just the uncomfortable, the unknown like.

Speaker 1 59:59

In faith, continue to move forward. And so I'm going to serve. Katie served me for 18 years, golfing at discovery. She's teaching for the first time. It's my, my turn to serve her to, to help more with the details of how to manage a home where she's, you know, efforting greatly to be the best teacher she can be. Um, am I going to die to myself or am I going to hold bitterness? Fair question. No, I'm not going to be bitter. Look at what she's done for you. Look how the Lord has provided Katie in your life as an encouragement and as a partner, as a friend. Now go do the same. Like that's some deep stuff.

Speaker 2 1:00:39

And I don't know if I could have realized that without, like, taking a step back as you work your way through this period of your life. I mean, obviously things are, are cause, it's not obvious, it's, uh, something new. I would imagine every day that you're learning about yourself and you're learning about the world in general and and what you continue to have to offer it, which, um, what, what, what do you think you have left to learn?

Speaker 1 1:00:57

what do you think you have left to learn? I am almost through this. I think I've learned. I have a lot to learn in general, but about this season of looking back, everything was designed for a reason and you've gone through to mold who you are today, to mold your relationships for who they are today and a deep conviction, and I believe that, to then understand what are some of the shame, the guilt, the, what stories am I telling myself? To then leverage that to what's true, like I can see the light and that I will make it through this healthier and better, entering into that second half, whatever that is, in confidence and faith, like it's. I'm so confident in that, um, so I, I think I'm, I, I'm, I'm very self-aware, um, communicated, I've grown like I'm very thankful for the process, but I think it's, it's on the tail end. I could be surprised, but I believe to be true.

Speaker 2 1:01:58

What I've been able to discover and work through is going to serve me well and my relationships well, going forward offer the good, the bad, the ugly, which is those that just stay in their lane and stop growing, stop learning, stop getting uncomfortable, Cause that can look so many different ways for so many different people. Right, In my experience and perhaps this is part of what you've experienced because I I know in just some of the things that I've done in my life that it took the hard moment, that hard decision, to understand my gosh. I was either just spinning my wheels or I was just. I was just compounding bad decision with bad decision, or surrounding myself with people that were just comfortable instead of growing me.

Speaker 2 1:02:51

You know, talked about conversations. I mean, the best friends I have are the ones that tell me, when I'm being an idiot, that that are comfortable, telling me, like dude, what are you doing? Stop it, Be better, Right. And if you don't have that type of relationship, whether it's with a spouse or a friend or somebody you know, the same holds true in business. And so if we let life, if we, if we, if we take from it what it is offering us, it's hard as hell, but it can be an incredible journey. So what would you tell somebody who perhaps is maybe on the precipice of I call it, doing the work right, you know, getting in perspective, learning about oneself, defining and determining what it is that you have to offer. Some people retreat back into comfort. Some people lean into, run towards that storm and do everything they can to to experience it for what it's worth. If somebody is at that moment, at that crossroads, what would you tell them?

Speaker 1 1:03:55

What would you tell them? For my experience, there's been key moments in my life where I've known I've needed to address some things, but it's been a challenge to do so. And each time that I have been able to talk to Katie about something hard, talk to a friend about something hard, address something in my own life, I can't say that you can take this to the bank. But there is so much opportunity for more intimacy. But there's so much opportunity for more intimacy, care and authenticity in whatever relationship that that would encourage, if that makes sense. It's hard. We tell ourselves stories and everybody listening is struggling with something. It doesn't have to be that way. And so what courage can you do to possibly journal about it, pray about it, if you have some faith and go about it with humility, to dream of what could?

Speaker 1 1:05:11

I've said this a lot, but like what is possible in your marriage, what is possible in your ability as a parent, what is possible? I mean humility, saying I'm sorry, take just like, cut through any junk or crap right, it just knifes through it. So that's where I go, Like the opportunity you have for more connection in your life is there and it's worth every minute of it. I don't know. Like I said, it takes time and it takes intentionality. We can go through life and we can scroll ourselves to death when we know we've got something inside of us we've got to talk about or address. So go to counseling, Find a good counselor, find a good friend, whatever that is for you. There is so much opportunity and we hold our own selves back of what's possible.

Reflection and Personal Growth

Speaker 2 1:06:11

We talked ahead of this conversation about perhaps a through line of your life. A lot of it is people, starting with your immediate family and your father and your uncle and your father from a mindset perspective, katie, and all of the other individuals that you named along the way, that have that have supported there, or you know words that you used were just supported. You know been there, um, encouragement, right, I mean just people that either you attracted to you or that you know they themselves attracted you to them. That is not an accident. Katie's been that that rock for you, that you know. Hearing you taking a conscious effort to now honor her at this point in your guys's life, it's special stuff, man, it's special stuff. So if you think about the people that, the people in which.

Speaker 2 1:07:19

I've been associated with all years.

Speaker 1 1:07:21

Yeah, I mean one thing that I can see a pattern of. I talk about these people. How do I stay in touch with these people better than I have? Right, and I think that idea that you talk about actually reaching out and asking for help or asking for coffee or time is something I'm learning as we, as we speak here today. You are, you're going to become what you read, what you watch, what you listen to and who you hang out with. It's a Josh Med Joshua Medcalf, I think, is his name burn your goals drilled into us Like who do you want to be a part of?

Speaker 1 1:07:55

And again, I go back to the unbelievable people that have shaped me from a very young age, to how they still have and do today. One of the ways in which we can honor others is just write them a note to tell them thank you again and again and again, to give them a call, instead of a text, to try to find a way to honor them, especially the older generation. You know there's so much to offer and I think often there's pictures painted of each generation, but what a way to honor somebody older than you or that has impacted you in a way that we have so much to learn, and so that's how I'd answer that, I guess. And then it inspires me who do I want to be a part of into the future? Yeah Right.

Speaker 2 1:08:37

Kind of that give back mentality. Yes yeah, yes, yeah. What's next for Andy Doden?

Speaker 1 1:08:45

Well, I'm going to make pizza for a prom group tonight homemade pizzas so I'm headed to the store and making a homemade pizza. We always enjoy hosting, so I'll have 10 high schoolers over.

Speaker 2 1:09:02

Um, I continue to kind of network and see what's out there.

Speaker 1 1:09:04

So nothing official to announce here on the time and I would have loved to. I. Would have loved to I. Um, I've been thinking about like idle hands are not, are not great Right?

Speaker 2 1:09:11

So workshop, as they say.

Speaker 1 1:09:13

Yep, and so I would say that anybody entering into any type of extended time off, try to set a timeline that you believe would serve you well and actually put a plan in place proactively, because it can come back and bite you and you can, you can it'll mess with you. So I've learned that specifically, maybe, as I do work towards ending a career and moving into whatever it is, at whatever age, you know you just, you just want to be aware of that. So it's been a little mini practice from that standpoint. I'm I'm trying to get down my thoughts, though not as um structured as you, but trying to offer some things on LinkedIn where people may benefit from just learning and being encouraged by Um. And then, yeah, hopefully, I mean I'm excited to be with people again in a work environment and so hopefully, you know, something can come together here, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:10:02

Well, you have an abundance of options. I know that that is definitely a truth. So talk about the LinkedIn blog that you're kind of working on and just you know real quick, where can people find you? Where can people learn?

Speaker 1 1:10:14

from you. Yeah, I mean, just search Andy Doden on LinkedIn and send a note to me or an invitation or follow, and I think that there's been just a couple of posts. I've again been very, very reflective. I've been encouraged to share over the years and now have the time to do so. So there's just different topics. I've mentioned some of those axioms on the call today, but just really trying to encourage people, give people outlets to learn and continue towards again their goals and their potential.

Speaker 2 1:10:45

Yeah, anything that we didn't talk about today that you'd like to spend some time on before we wrap?

Speaker 1 1:10:52

I think you did a great job. If I um, if. I remember anything. Maybe we can do it again someday, but it's been um love to very, very fun Just preparing some thoughts, remembering some stories that have been, in fact, impactful to me, and then really, like you said, you know the people that have influenced and shaped me. So I, I, you did a great job. Thanks for having me on.

Speaker 2 1:11:11

Well, thanks. Thanks for that vote of vote of confidence. It's always meant a lot coming from you. Whether we were 12 years old, you know competing against each other. Whether we were 40 years old, you know helping try to mold individuals into reaching their full potential.

Speaker 2 1:11:27

I taught me what it means to be a good father, what it means to be a good husband, what it means to be a good father, what it means to be a good husband.

Speaker 2 1:11:35

You have modeled for me how humility can achieve results, how positivity and encouragement can go further than really anything else from a leadership perspective, showing individuals what's possible, and not just telling them what's possible, but showing them what's possible. Getting in there, getting your hands dirty, doing the work, the concept of removing barriers for others, you know, and what that provides me individually in my role today and my career personally and professionally, are things that I've learned from you that I would not be where I am today without you. Our organization would not be where it is today without you, and I just sincerely appreciate your, your friendship, your leadership, your guidance, your mentorship, and I encourage anybody who happens to be listening today to follow Andy and and, if ever possible, try to get on his calendar to spend some time with him, because you will inevitably become a better person because of it. And, andy Doden, I just really appreciate you being here today.

Speaker 1 1:12:42

You as well, thank you, and I just say, like, the joy is, you've taken it and done something with it. Like, I want to be around people like you that actually do the hard work, because that's not that. That's what we encourage people to do. Like, do the work. There's so much opportunity and joy that can come with it, so I kudos to you for uh, for taking and running with it, and you're impacting many more people than than you know.

Speaker 2 1:13:06

So well, that's what's fun about it. Right Is is is generally when some of these things that you know do take work but don't feel like work right. It's really just buying a couple of mics and a couple of headsets and making a few notes and having a conversation. But, um, if, if others find some some use from it.

Speaker 1 1:13:26

That's fantastic. We got to do what you talk about. Jim Velvano tells us a lot already today by noon.

Speaker 2 1:13:29

So this is a. It's been a joy. Well, what is it you think you laugh and you cry.

Speaker 1 1:13:32

That's a heck of a day. That's if we could be like that every day. That's a good thing.

Speaker 2 1:13:36

That's a heck of a day. Well, I appreciate you, buddy. Thank you so much for taking the time and we'll do it again, yep, thank you.

Speaker 1 1:13:41

All right, cheers. We'll see you next time.