Ep. 4 (Solo): A Recap of My Conversation with Harry Kraemer, Jr.

A wonderful hour-long conversation with former Baxter CEO Harry Kraemer transforms from a simple blog comment into a profound lesson on leadership and human connection. What began as a discussion about a controversial blog post becomes a masterclass in values-based leadership principles that can transform how we approach personal and professional relationships.

• Finding that top performers share common traits, including competitive spirit and detailed memory recall from formative experiences
• Understanding values-based leadership through four key principles: self-reflection, balance, true self-confidence, and genuine humility
• Learning the power of Harry Kraemer's 40-year daily practice of asking four transformative questions
• Discovering that leadership starts with presence rather than position

Reach out with your thoughts and feedback at nick@timeandenergy.co and visit timeandenergy.co for more insights on maximizing your most important resources.

Keep Grinding,

NJL

https://harrykraemer.org/

https://harrykraemer.org/one-acre-fund/

Transcript

Gratitude for Podcast Growth

Nick Lakoduk 0:31

Hey, what's up everybody Nick here, hope you all are doing great. Thank you for joining me this evening Solo episode. Tonight we're on Tuesday time and energyco that are reading the blog posts that are listening to and sharing um, you know the, the podcast episodes and the conversations. Man, I just I am floored at the response that that I've been getting and that we've been getting, and obviously wouldn't be able to do this without our first three guests Josh persons, david Schultz and Andy Doden. Um panelists Josh Persons, david Schultz and Andy Doden.

Common Traits of Top Performers

Nick Lakoduk 1:18

It's funny when you sort of look back on, when you're starting something like this, what you imagine it could be like, and then comparing and contrasting with exactly what it is and as something that really just was a thought, as I was spending some time on a paternity leave last summer of 2024. You know, I really just had no idea exactly where it was going to go. But, man, I'm just I'm floored at all the wonderful comments and texts and words of encouragement. Clearly, what we're doing is right and clearly what we're doing is helping a little bit. Is is is right and clearly what we're doing is helping a little bit Um and so uh, that's the whole goal, if anybody is able to identify, you know a little bit about who they are, what they have to offer and um identify a few ways to to start the work, then that's exactly what this is for. So, thank you to all of you who are riding along and and joining me, uh, in this journey, and I look forward to getting some of our guests back again. I mean, I think that when you have the opportunity to be friends with top performers, that you take advantage of that in a bit of a way that allows you to, you know, have access to some of those experiences that those individuals have had and certainly not going to apologize for that by any stretch of the imagination. But I also just think it's important that, even though I've known all those three gentlemen Josh and Dave and Andy for an extremely long time, I'm still genuinely curious about them and I feel like I've learned. I know that I've learned something about them that I didn't know in each one of the conversations, and to me that's just fascinating. Know in each one of the conversations and to me that's just fascinating. So, as we continue this journey together and trying to identify what are some of the common things and some of the common traits that top performers have. I'd love to hear from you, nick at timeandenergyco. Drop me a note, let me know what you think.

Nick Lakoduk 3:09

As you have listened and you've had the opportunity to digest and process, what do you think are some of the top through lines, if you will, that are identifying themselves through the first three conversations, I can tell you from my perspective, one of them is absolutely a competitive spirit. I mean, when you listen to Josh talk, the ability for him to be able to process and recall you know a lot of those moments and a lot of those memories in very distinct detail, in fact, that's actually another through line, if you will across all three is their ability to recall things from a really, really long time ago, because clearly, that competition brings out core memories. It brings out, you know, things within us when we're in the arena, as Teddy Roosevelt would say, that allows us to have some of those deep-seated memories, and so that, to me, has been very interesting, the way in which all three of those gentlemen have recalled things from a long, long time ago. I'd also say, from a competitive spirit perspective, um, all three of them absolutely possess that. You know Josh talking about, you know the, the first few tournaments that he played in as a, as a kid, and, and the opportunity to and the, and the time that he spent, you know, up at Edgewood golf course chipping and putting and competing with people that are a little bit older than him. You know, same with same, with Dave, competing, whether it was, you know, football or golf, or, you know, moving to a different, you know, school and high school, and then again in college. I mean, my goodness, you know, the ability to go and do that and compete at an extremely high level and then be able to recall some of those emotions is just fantastic.

Nick Lakoduk 4:52

And then, lastly, you know, in our conversation with Andy, I mean goodness, again, the recall is absolutely incredible. And you know, with Andy, one of the things that I took away, in addition to the competitive spirit, was the extremely thoughtful responses that he provided to some of the questions. And I'll, and I'll be very honest, he didn't know what I was going to ask him, you know, I think he might've had an idea of what we're going to talk about clearly, but, um, he really took it seriously and I give him a lot of credit for doing that. You know, we sat down for nearly three hours and it was supposed to be about an hour and we just kind of kept going. So I really look forward to bringing those guys back at some point because, um, you know, when we do get into some of the key topics of leadership and self-improvement and things of that nature, every single one of those three guys has a lot more to teach us and I have a lot more to learn. So thank you to Josh and Dave and Andy for your time and your energy and your willingness to sit down and share a little bit of yourselves with with me and the rest of us, your willingness to sit down and share a little bit of yourselves with me and the rest of us.

Nick Lakoduk 6:03

Today, I want to actually share a story that reminded me just how powerful one moment of connection can be. It's not a guest episode, not going to have anybody joining me today but I've taken this chance to fill you all in on a conversation that I had this past Saturday. Taking this chance to fill you all in on a conversation that I had this past Saturday and if you have had the opportunity to read the blog at timeandenergyco, you're going to know what I'm talking about but I wanted to honor it with not just a blog post but a few of my thoughts verbally as well. So take you back to a night. Actually it wasn't a night, it was evening, I guess you could say.

Nick Lakoduk 6:33

I was sitting on an airplane with my wife, alyssa. We were flying out to New York City. Actually, if we want to be fully honest, we were flying out to Newark, new Jersey, and we didn't realize until we were about ready to take off. All the captain had mentioned that we were clear to go and no issues. I think we were one of maybe like 30 planes that went in to Newark on that day unscathed. So it's good to be lucky every once in a while. But we were flying out to Newark to spend some much needed time together, alyssa and I, and I happened to cross a blog post of an individual who I've been following now for quite a few months by the name of Harry Kramer, and if you've heard that name before, it does not surprise me.

Nick Lakoduk 7:23

He's the former CEO of Baxter, a pharmaceutical company, a worldwide pharmaceutical company that operates in, I want to say, 103 different countries, and with my pharmaceutical background, I know what Baxter is. I've heard of the organization. I can't, off the top of my head, recall any of the specific medications that they sold, but anyway, I found Harry through some you know, the books on values-based leadership, and your 168 is one of them. 168 is the number of hours that each one of us has in our week. Just like we all have 24 hours in a day, we have 168 hours in a week, and so, as we've talked about here on the pod and on timeandenergyco, you know that 24 hours that everybody gets is static time. And energyco, you know that 24 hours that everybody gets is static, and so Harry expands that out into a seven day period from a hundred excuse me, from 24 hours to 168 hours. So, just all of the all of the things that you know bumped up against some of my thoughts and my philosophies and my ideas that that Harry was championing drew me to him and his, his, his writings and his teachings, and, um, so I happened across a blog post as we were flying out to Newark.

Nick Lakoduk 8:41

So let me take you back to a night. Actually, it's an evening. I was flying out to, uh, new York city with my wife, alyssa. Um, well, actually, if we want to be completely honest, we were flying out to Newark, new Jersey, uh, and we didn't realize all the stuff that was going on in Newark recently until we learned from the captain that had came out and introduced himself and said, hey, we're going to be fine to go. I know you guys have probably heard all the things and the issues that are going on in Newark Airport, but we're going to be just fine. And Alyssa and I looked at each other and kind of shrugged and it's like, okay, uh, clearly we're not. We're not dialed into the news of the day, as maybe we once were with our, with our two little ones at home. And, uh, I don't have any problem with that at all, but I digress. So, listen, I are. We're sitting on the airplane heading out to Newark, getting ready to spend some time together in New York city, some much needed time together in New York city.

Nick Lakoduk 9:36

And and if you know the name, it doesn't surprise me here he's a former CEO of Baxter international. Baxter is a pharmaceutical company that I have a little bit of familiarity with because of my time in pharmaceuticals. Um, and and know a few people at that organization. Uh, for sure, he's also a professor at Northwestern's Kellogg School of Management. He's been there for oh my gosh, a good. While he's a graduate of that school as well, he is also an advisor at Madison Dearborn Partners in the Chicago area, sits on multiple boards of organizations and an individual who really just champions what he calls values-based leadership.

Nick Lakoduk 10:15

Now, values-based leadership, for context to share with you all here today, is comprised of four main things Number one, self-reflection. Number two, balance. Number three, true self-confidence. And number four, genuine humility. And we'll get into each one of those in a little bit more detail as we go on today and beyond.

Nick Lakoduk 10:41

But when you hear him talk, when you hear him write and you read what he's put out into the world, you can't help but be attracted to the passion that he has for his tenets and his philosophies and you can't help but be attracted to just the way in which he discusses how he has arrived at some of these values. In fact, he told me this story on Saturday. So he's a graduate of Northwestern's Kellogg School of Management and he's the author of From Values to Action. From Values to Action, which was his first book bestselling book, and his work on values-based leadership has had really a huge impact on me, and I found him as I was, you know, continuing my research on self-improvement and leadership things of that nature. You know, continuing my research on self-improvement and leadership things of that nature, and a lot of the tenets that he champions are things that are very near and dear to me, like self-reflection, balance, true self-confidence and genuine humility. Those are his four, what he would say are his values-based leadership tenets. So self-reflection, balance, true self-confidence and genuine humility.

Nick Lakoduk 11:54

And so as we were flying out to New York, I read a blog post and the blog post spoke into some of his feelings around the death of the Pope. Now I'll stop right here and just say not going to get into any religious fodder here this evening, but I do think it's important to call out the nature of the pod. Or, excuse me, I do find it important to call out the nature of the post, because where this led is extremely unique. So let me explain. So the blog post that Harry wrote was about the Pope Francis, who had most recently passed away. As many of you know, and Harry, as I learned from this blog post, is a devout Catholic. He's got five kids, him and his wife, a grown family, and he really looks at faith as a guiding light for him, which I completely respect. I don't have the gift, if you will, of faith that has yet to grace me someone's desire or willingness to follow or evangelize any sort of religious beliefs that they have. I absolutely do.

Harry Kramer's Leadership Principles

Nick Lakoduk 13:20

But what was interesting about this specific blog post is that Harry had talked about leadership and the way in which Donald Trump had actually put a meme out and the way in which Donald Trump had actually put a meme out of him as the Pope. Now he went on to suggest that it's in poor taste and he went on to suggest that there are things that, as leaders, you really just shouldn't do, things you shouldn't say. And I don't disagree. I thought the meme was actually kind of funny. I didn't take it any further than that. I didn't actually believe to be true that Trump thought he should be the next pope or even wanted to be the next pope. I think from his perspective and you know this is just my two cents that it received probably the attention that he was hoping, which was a laugh, but that's neither here nor there, which was a laugh, but that's neither here nor there.

Nick Lakoduk 14:11

But as Harry went on in this blog post, I found it very interesting in how he tied in leadership to some of the tenets of religion, which is totally fine, but the premise was really that, when it comes to leadership, there are just certain things that should be off topic or off limits, or things that we just shouldn't do as a leader perspective. And I I thought that was extremely ironic, because here we have a situation where we have a very decorated leader in Harry Kramer who, um, is talking about leadership and he was talking about perhaps maybe there are things that we shouldn't say and he's talking about religion and he's talking about politics all in the same post. So I found it incumbent on myself as I'm, you know, sitting next to my wife here on this airplane to respond um and comment on his blog post, and I didn't think that anything would come of it. I mean, there was. There was no way that I could have assumed or thought that it would. Because, number one, I I've maybe commented on three or four blog posts in my entire life, but number two, he's a busy dude. I mean he's flying all over the world doing speeches for organizations. He's he's a professor, like I said at Kellogg and Northwestern. He's got kids, he's got grandkids. I mean he's a busy guy. Uh, you know what? What exactly do we expect when it comes to how much time he has to be able to give the world. And, um, I was shocked that he replied. And not only did he reply, he said that he would like to to talk and invited me to call him. So I did.

Nick Lakoduk 15:53

Took a couple days for us to iron out the time in which we were going to be able to connect, but we landed on this past Saturday, so a couple days ago. It's Tuesday today and what I thought was going to be, you know really, about a you know 10 to 15 minute conversation specifically around the blog post, because he had replied to me and said hey look, I'd love to talk about this. I love your thoughtful response and I'd love to learn more about your perspective. I was absolutely floored at number one, just the response. But number two, here is a guy who is still learning. He's humble enough to know that he doesn't know everything, and I'm not suggesting that that I do or that I even had anything specifically to teach him on this topic, cause I certainly don't. But it was an opinion and it was a thought from from one leader to another. You know, how are you processing this? How are you looking at this, harry, when you think about leadership and things that you should say and that you shouldn't say, and how that fits into religion and politics.

Nick Lakoduk 16:59

And I was very, very interested to hear what he had to say. So what I thought was going to be about a 10, 15 minute conversation turned into an hour and seven minute talk. So let that sink in. I mean this man, he's a former CEO, he's a professor, he's a published author. He took a full hour out of his day to talk to a stranger who left a comment on his, on his blog.

Nick Lakoduk 17:18

And what struck me the most was was his resume. It was it wasn't, excuse me, his resume, it was his presence. He was extremely generous, he was, he was very present in the conversation. He was curious, he was real. He said things to me like you know, nick, now here, now challenge me on this, challenge me on this.

Nick Lakoduk 17:36

And if you've heard Harry talk, you know he kind of kind of talks fast and he kind of repeats himself and he, you can tell there's just a stream of consciousness moving there at a special rate, which I can appreciate from time to time. But but behind some of the uh, you know the scatteredness, if you will, was a genuine heart that was interested to learn about a perspective that he did not share. So there was no agenda, there was no rush, just the kind of genuine human connection that has become all too rare in a world that's moving extremely fast. And the value of conversation, the value of sharing opinions and respecting others man, it really slapped me across the face as something that not only I found deep value in, but I feel like we could just really use a lot more of in this world today. Because, um, you know a lot of the conversations that that that I'm privy to, either personally or professionally, don't always have the two ears, one mouth, philosophy that I like to think about, where we want to be listening twice as much as we are talking, and and so here's a guy who's willing to have this conversation.

The Power of Daily Self-Reflection

Nick Lakoduk 18:55

So we talked about leadership, we talked about family, we talked about you know reflection and priorities, and he shared with me you know how he sort of got into the self-reflection game, which was one of his key tenants, and how, when he was courting his now wife, his father, his now father-in-law called him and said I understand that my daughter seems to like you and I want to know why. So I'd love for you to come up to St Paul and spend some time with me and just to hear him tell. The story is fantastic. And he went on to talk about how he went up to St Paul to see his soon-to-be father-in-law, or eventual father-in-law, and asked him so what are we doing? Are we going to a Vikings game? What are we doing? And he said no, we are going to a retreat for the weekend. We got three days together, but here's the thing you can't talk for three days.

Nick Lakoduk 19:47

And so the way Harry describes it is you know, here's a guy that talks all the time and at this point I think he said he's, you know, 19 or 20 years old, but here he's meeting his future father-in-law, his girlfriend's dad, and he said the first thing that he thought about is okay, well, how much do I really like this girl? Super fair, I think that's a fair question that any 20 year old would ask themselves when posed with the opportunity or um, I don't know a chance to spend a weekend with, uh, with this girl's dad, you're probably going to ask yourself okay, how much do I actually like this girl, uh, to go on a three day? No talking, uh, religious, you know, find yourself type retreat, um with, with her dad. So, anyway, um, he, he took the time to explain sort of how he got into the self-reflection and that was the. That, really the first thing. And then he went on to talk about just some of the daily habits that he champions around self-reflection and the things that he asks himself. So, um, I'd really like to spend some time here, um, not necessarily just now, but over time, but I want to share them with you right now because they are extremely impactful for me and I hope they are for you as well. So he spends 15 minutes every night before he goes to bed and he asks himself the following questions.

Nick Lakoduk 21:03

Number one what did I say I was going to do today and what did I actually do? Number two what am I proud of today and what am I not proud of today? Number three if I were to live today again, what would I do different? And number four if I have a tomorrow, how will I operate differently based on what I learned today? If I have a tomorrow, how will I operate differently based on what I learned today? And he said you know, nick, I mean, some people might take that last one as a bit morose, but the reality is is that at some point, all of us are going to get to a time where tomorrow is in question.

Nick Lakoduk 21:48

And you know, I would say, at least from my perspective, you know, that feeling is, um is not something that that has hit me very often, but um, you know, here's a 70 year old guy, harry Kramer. I'm talking about that. Um, here, here's a 70 year old guy that you know he's seen a lot, he's, he's, he's done even more and, um, these are the types of things that he's thinking about. So he said he's done this 15 minute exercise every day for 40 years. And again, you know, talk about things that sort of slap you across the face.

Nick Lakoduk 22:24

I was, I was genuinely interested and curious as to how this, this man can commit to something like that and and do it. And what he told me is he's like Nick, it's changed my life. It's changed the way in which I process things, it's changed the way in which I operate. It's helped me make better decisions, it's helped me get over bad decisions that I've made and it's given me the opportunity to live in the moment and not consistently focus on what's ahead of me and what's in front of me. So here's what I'm taking forward from that conversation you make time for someone who reaches out, especially when they're trying to grow, and that's what Harry did for me, you know.

Leadership Lessons and Future Plans

Nick Lakoduk 23:07

The second one that I wrote down here is your calendar reflects your values. What you say matters, but what you give your time to says even more. I think this comes to fruition more often now when I think about charities. And anybody can write a check to a charity. But is anybody willing to give their time, their 24, their 168, to go and spend an hour volunteering somewhere or championing a cause that they feel fills their bucket? And thirdly, presence over position Titles don't make a leader. So how you show up for others does?

Nick Lakoduk 23:47

He made a comment to me. He said you know my goal as I was growing up through Baxter, because he started not necessarily from the bottom, but he started certainly not as CEO. And he said that his goal as he was working his way up through Baxter was to get to know everybody that he could within the organization, and for that, everybody that he could within the organization, and that his goal was that the people that he met, if they were asked, said that they would someday want to work for him. Well, what an incredible philosophy to have, in my opinion, and he shared his why behind that, and I'm just internally grateful for the time that he spent with me. And so, in closing here this evening, that that hour hour and seven minutes to be exact reminded me why I started.

Nick Lakoduk 24:40

Time and energy in the first place? Uh, it's cause the time and the energy. Those two resources are finite, but when we spend them well, they create a ripple effect that we can't always see. And, and you know that hour of time that Harry spent with me, you know, was an hour out of his day, but but for me, you know, that hour of time that Harry spent with me, you know, was an hour out of his day, but but for me, you know, what it did to fill my bucket was truly a one plus one equals three or more type scenario, and I'm extremely grateful.

Nick Lakoduk 25:07

And you know, furthermore, what I think is really really cool is he's like you know what, nick, you got my number now. You've asked some great questions and I'm really grateful to have gotten to know you. You know, feel free to call me anytime if you have any questions or if you have any thoughts or anything that you want to share with me, um, or or get my thoughts on. He's like cause. I think I could learn from you too, and I'm extremely grateful, and so at that point I mentioned to him. I was like, well, might as well share with him the podcast and the blog and all those types of things he's like. Well, he's like you know, I don't have any problem sitting down and talking about things. As you can probably tell, I love to talk. It's my favorite thing to do. My wife tells me all the time that if I could just simply talk for a living, that that would be fantastic, because that's all I do anyway. And so my commitment to you all, as you continue following along, is that I'm going to do what I can to see if we can't get some time with Harry Kramer on the Time and Energy podcast, and I just think that would be fantastic. And so I'll leave you with this.

Nick Lakoduk 26:11

Sometimes, leadership isn't in a boardroom. It starts with a blog comment and the decision to pick up the phone, and those, albeit small things can make a world of difference and have a world of impact on those around you and yourself as well. Thank you for joining me. I appreciate it. Thanks again for following along. Reach out nick at timeandenergyco and check out the website timeandenergyco. I welcome your thoughts, your comments, your feedback and look forward to bringing you a few more episodes here coming up in the next few weeks. Stay tuned. Thank you all, take care. Bye-bye.