The Restaurant Guys

Big Apple BBQ: Lotsa Q!

• The Restaurant Guys • Episode 109

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This is a Vintage Selection from 2005

The Banter

The Guys talk about the Big Apple BBQ 2005 that Francis attended with their chef. Sadly, Mark had to miss because he had a newborn. 

The Conversation

The Restaurant Guys interviewed the best pitmasters from all over the U.S. at Big Apple BBQ in NYC. The masters shared their regional styles, methods and colorful personalities while the guys “pigged out” on the good stuff that used to be hard to come by in the northeast. 

The Inside Track

The Restaurant Guys are culinarily well-versed from fine dining restaurants to hamburger joints, but they had some things to learn about Q. 


 Francis: What's snoot? 

Smoki O’s: Snoot is the anterior prolongation of the pig's nose.

Francis: Is that your specialty?

Smoki O’s: Barbecue is our specialty. We barbecue anything from the pig's nose to the, um, from the rooter to the tooter! 

-The Restaurant Guys Podcast at Big Apple BBQ 2005

Guests & Info 

Chef Anthony Bucco

Special Guest Host


Michael Rodriguez

Salt Lick BBQ

Driftwood, TX

 https://saltlickbbq.com/driftwood/


Ron Blasingame

Whole Hog Cafe

Little Rock, AR (& in NJ, too!)

https://www.wholehogcafe.com/


Elaine & Garry Roark

Ubon’s (The Barbecue of Yazoo)

Yazoo, MS

https://ubonsbbq.com/


 Carolyn Macklemore

Big Bob Gibson 

Decateur, AL

https://bigbobgibson.com/


Kenny Callahan

Blue Smoke (2002-2024)

NY, NY

https://www.bluesmoke.com/


Smoki O’s (closed 2021)

St Louis, MO


Ed Mitchell

North Carolina

https://www.thepitmasteredmitchell.com/

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Mark:

Good morning, Francis. Hi there, mark. How you doing? Welcome home. Thank you. Glad to be back. Sorta

Francis:

for those of you in Lister land, I just returned from Ireland. Yeah. With nice little trip land of my forebears. Yeah. It's beautiful. Mm-hmm. The island of saints and ferries and

Mark:

I'm not even going there. Not that kind of fairy. Had a nice little weekend myself. Oh yeah. Yeah. We did some, some grilling and barbecuing in the backyard. Yeah. It was big fun. You did not, well, we didn't really, but we did some ribs and some burgers and some chicken and

Francis:

that barbecue line was a, was a, was a lob, wasn't it? Yeah, it was indeed. That was a segue into our, into our discussion, which is we're gonna talk about real barbecue

Mark:

today, except I really did do some fake barbecuing.

Francis:

Well, you did some real

Mark:

grilling. Well, no, I, I, what I do with the ribs is I cook'em for a couple hours in the oven at a low temperature and then I take'em out to the grill and just finish'em up out there. I recently met some gentlemen

Francis:

who would. Would quibble with your, your classification of that as real barbecue.

Mark:

I'm sure that they would just not even quibble with it. They'd call me an idiot and move along. No,

Francis:

they're nicer than that. That's just what they'd think. What we're talking about for all you out there, our listeners is, uh, we're talking about the distinction between barbecue and grilling now. Barbecue, real barbecue. We don't see a lot of in New Jersey, and only recently have we started to see some in New York. Mm-hmm. But real barbecue is, is is a long slow, I mean like 18 hour cooking process. Well, Francis,

Mark:

we're, we're here in New York, New Jersey area. Mm-hmm. We don't have time to barbecue. Exactly right. Hey, I got 18 minutes. Ready, set, go.

Francis:

Well, and you also, you know, I find that in suburban lawns, if you put a coal pit in your backyard. People get really upset. Neighbors get ticked. You can't

Mark:

really bring down the property values and you, and you can't fit a, a pig in one of those terracotta things that goes on your patio.

Francis:

But, but if you're in Decatur, Alabama, it's just, you know, you don't, if you don't have one, you're not cool. Well, I recently went to, as you know, I. And this is Tell all of you out there in listener land. I went to the Big Apple barbecue before I left, and the big Apple barbecue is a big deal thing. We have a, it's a, it's huge. It's a, it's at Madison Square Park and it's a, it's a, that's a Saturday event. It's a two day event actually. And uh, what we have the best barbecuers from all over the country come to this region, which is kind of unusual. We've got, Ken Callahan from Blue Smoke in New York, and they sort of host the event, but it's outside in the park. Yeah. He doesn't travel very far. No, he's the closest. Yeah. We have people from all over the country. And what's real interesting is while they do barbecue all over America, it's different

Mark:

every place. So how many different barbecue people are, are at this event? For

Francis:

instance, uh, 10, 10 different master bar. Now these people go and have a competition every year. Oh yeah. I mean, in, in the Memphis and May competition, there are a thousand. Pit masters, that's what you call somebody who does barbecue. A thousand entries into the Memphis and May concept. They take this stuff pretty seriously. They really do. And they travel all over the country to do it. And barbecue lovers likewise travel all over the place. And there are regional differences. Mm-hmm. In Texas, they barbecue, mostly beef in, Mississippi and the northeast of barbecue, mostly pork. I mean, this is a whole culture. It's called Q by the way. If you're in the know, you gonna go and get you some QI I'm thinking up a southern accent talking to you. I dunno where that came from. I was thinking of brogue two days ago. The thing. But they have, they have the music, they have the, the whole thing. Um, they do this every June. This is the second year. We're gonna do it again next year. Um, but they have bands. They have bands all afternoon. and there's different kinds of music depending on where you're getting your barbecue. There was jazz, there's jazz band, there's a rockabilly band, a country band.

Mark:

Well, just like each, each area has its own style of barbecue. They also have their own style of music that goes with, with it. And it's, it's the style

Francis:

of barbecue is what they barbecue and also what sauce they put on it. Mm-hmm. Because the barbecue sauce, you know, this whole, like, we go into the supermarket and you get that can and pepper thing, that's not really, I mean, you, you can't call that a barbecue sauce and barbecue country. Right. I mean, some places have tomato-based barbecue sauce that's like that, but better. I had some of the best food. Mm-hmm. I mean, this stuff took a long time to cook and it was unlike anything. There's no way to make it that good unless you cook it that long.

Mark:

Well, you know, I was really jealous'cause I adore barbecue and, and was unable to come with you'cause the baby was just a, a week or two old at the time.

Francis:

All I have to say is get your priorities straight, man. I will tell you about this festival. What was interesting is you saw New Yorkers who were just, I mean, were very fanatical about this now. This was a hot summer day and there were lines. The way it works is you go to the barbecue festival, there's no fee for entry, but you can buy a beer and they closed off a city block around Madison Square Park, which is

Mark:

impressive in, in and of its own holy cow. To closed off a city block in Manhattan is beautiful. The logistics of doing that just must be.

Francis:

Tragic beau, beautiful summer day. And there were lines mark. There were lines like, I mean, I would say that it took you an hour to get to the front of the line. There's no fee for entry and you get up to any stand you want to go to. Mm-hmm. And it's seven bucks for a plate of barbecue, whatever they're making. I don't know, pig lips, hog feet, I don't know. all kinds of things. and uh, you know, I thought to myself, I would never stand on a line that long for anything in the hot sun. Except maybe barbecue, but I also got a press pass. I love this radio show because they have this thing. If you go, and I'm gonna tell you if you go buy this thing called a Bubba Pass, and you can find out more about this than when the next one's coming. I, I'm sorry. Francis Bubba Pass. That's what I said. Yeah. Okay. Whatever you say, man, you go, you go to this. By the way, part of what was great about this event was it was totally ridiculous uhhuh to see New Yorkers doing this. But, but the lines are in Terminable. Mm-hmm. But if you go and you buy a Bubba Pass for a hundred dollars, you cut in front of the whole line. And that is worth a hundred dollars worth of stuff. So the idea

Mark:

is you better go really hungry. So you could go to the 10 places with, or, or you can go to seven places with, with two people. That's it. And at$49 you'd each, that's it. You'd make out or, or you. And you can go to the front of line. You don't have to wait for 150 people to get the

Francis:

barbecue. There you go. It's like an hour in the hot sun waiting to one place, and then if you want barbecue someplace else, that's another hour. That's really, that's

Mark:

really a

Francis:

no brainer. I recommend as decadent as we are. Well, you know, but the thing is you can get four people and spend 25 bucks a person. Right? That's true. so you go, you get the Bubba Pass, or you start your own radio show and you get a press pass. I really do like this. The France part of, yeah.

Mark:

Do the people online get mad at you when you cut in front of

Francis:

em? No. No. No. They don't. They, you sort of go in the back and they, they, you have this official looking pass around your neck and they figure you're somebody important. I'm not, but it looked like I was on So you fooled them. I did way to be, man. I had them fooled. But you have real barbecue here and you also have the real people that. Do it. This is, I mean, there are, these are the top, these are the championship barbecues from across the country, and they're there, and you can talk to them when you get up there. Now, are they from restaurants now? Now are these guys just backyard barbecuers? Some of them are backyard barbecues. This is like a hobby. This is like, you know, if, if, if, if you had a, like a sport that was your house, a civil war

Mark:

reenact that goes

Francis:

around the country, huh? Even more serious than, and some of these guys have restaurants. I mean, some of these, have you seen some of those Civil war reenactors? Yeah. They're pretty serious. I, I knew one. He, he, he sold his horse, his wife made him sell his horse a couple years ago. A friend of mine. Oh man. So now he's gotta be infantry Poor jack. Anyway. Stinks. No, no, no. He, he's giving it up much like. Much like you've given up golf, but these, some of these people own restaurants. But the thing is a lot of these people do it for the love of it, and they are very knowledgeable about it and about the history of it. And these recipes come down in their families. And when you go to these individual stands, the person, the pit master is there, uh, to talk to. And also usually it's their friends and family as well as maybe some employees who are long time employees that are. We're making this happen. Mm-hmm. They're fascinating people to talk to, and I got the chance to talk to some of those people. I actually went there with, I took, uh, our chef Anthony Buco from stage left. And we went down and we talked to all the different people to really get an insight on barbecue and the thing about barbecue, unless you gotta go to a competition or some kind of a festival like this, because that's the only way to really have Louisiana Barbecue next to Mississippi

Mark:

Barbecue. Francis. I'm really looking forward to listening to that and right, right after the break we'll be back. You're listening to the Restaurant guys, Today we're gonna be talking about barbecue. Francis went to a great little festival in, New York City, to learn all about barbecue, where people from across the country come and, and talk q which is, which is the in the know lingo for barbecue. You sound a little queeny

Francis:

when you said that, mark. Yeah, I'll be honest with you. So I did have a great opportunity to go and talk to these guys. Uhhuh, I think my feelings are hurt. I can't be honest, man. Um, no. I went, I did have an opportunity to talk to these guys. I think they're, they were, I learned so much and I had read a lot about barbecue and I've had a little bit of barbecue in my life, but I haven't traveled that. Widely with barbecue next year. My goal on the motorcycle going around to visit these places home, ah, I think it'd be a great trip. And the nice thing about this was it wasn't a barbecue competition, which is where you didn't usually see these guys together. It was just a fair. So why don't we listen to, uh, some of the people we talked to about barbecue let's talk about Texas Q and and hear it. Pardon the pun from the, the horse's mouth or the pig snout. Anyway, here we are at the Barbecue Festival in New York, uh, just about a month ago. So chef, here we are. We're standing on, where are we? We're standing on the corner of Madison Avenue and 26th Street and the street's closed off full of barbecue lovers Q Lovers for short on qs. And the point of the barbecue here is of course that there's barbecue from North Carolina. There's barbecue from South Carolina, there's barbecue from from Texas, and barbecue from New York. So we're gonna go in and sample. We're here early. We've got our press pass. This is what you call a perk Restaurant, business Journalism business. Full of perks. Chef, what are your thoughts on barbecue?

Anthony:

I love barbecue. Francis,

Francis:

what are your thoughts about barbecue in New York?

Anthony:

It's a different perspective on barbecue, I guess. You find that barbecue tends to stay down south and out southwest of the country. It's very rare to find it in the northeast, but it's become more and more common lately with the addition of blue smoke and a lot of the more casual restaurants along the Broadway Times Square area, Virgil's, and some items like that.

Francis:

Well, we got our press pass. Let us go to the head of the line. You wanna go and steal some barbecue from these New Yorkers? Let's start eating. All right. We're standing in front of the Salt Lake Barbecue from Driftwood, Texas, where the Pitmaster is. Michael Rodriguez. So we're gonna go try some brisket sausage in coleslaw, some Texas q shall we? Okay. Alright, the salt lake. And I would like you to, um, take your coleslaw, which like unlike any coleslaw I've had around here, I dunno if you can hear that, but it's a cacophony over here. Of crunchy, beautiful slaw. What's in there, man? Well, the first thing actually I get is sesame seeds, which actually are quite interesting in here because this isn't cole slaw that your mom made. There's no mayonnaise in here. There's no real vinegar flavor. It's very simply cabbage, carrots, some nice sesame seeds toasted to bring out that nice, rich, nutty flavor. Just it looks like it sauces with maybe a little bit of lemon juice. Really tasty. And the acid is from, what do you think? I think it's more than lemon juice. Is there vinegar in there? If there's vinegar in here, it's not a very powerful vinegar. It's probably like maybe a white distilled or something like that. It's not a, it's not over the top. It's more like a salad than a coleslaw. It's really delicious. And the cabbage is, uh, crisp and clean too. Yeah, everything's maintains. Its, uh, its textural. Alright, salt. That gets an a plus for the coleslaw. Let's go on to the, uh, sausage and brisket. This looks like a hearty meal. We're gonna gain five pounds. Okay. Ready? Hold on. Here we go. That's awesome. Why is it awesome, smoky? All the flavors are in balance. The texture of this meat is unbelievably tender. It's just a perfect amount of smoke sauce just rounds everything off. You know, it's funny, I think that one of the mistakes that people make when they try to make barbecue around here is they, they go too smoky, you know, and they throw in a fake, smoky flavor. Here, lemme try some of that, Bubba. Holy cow. Holy cow. Oh my goodness. That's, that's the piece right there. You got the fat line running through it. You, you know what's funny? You just said you got the fat line running through it and that's a piece, but that's because it's been cooked so long. Everything's so tender. The fat melts in your mouth. Exactly. Unbelievable. The fattest labor buddy. If you go with the sausage, you're gonna have to pick that up with your pork and just show it in your mouth like a lollipop. Awesome. I mean, it's hard to describe the flavor here. You got the nice snap from the skin of the sausage, that nice, juicy, perfectly cooked, mildly smoky, just subtle flavors all throughout. I mean, this sausage is nice. Well, you know what it's also hard to describe is the look of your face.'cause when it exploded all over your face, you got barbecue sauce all over you barbecue's a messy affair. Be careful everybody. Mm. Oh my God. This food will kill you, but you'll die happy. Alright, we, we give, I give them best, best rating so far. Hands down.

Mark:

That was really interesting, Francis. that was from those folks from the Salt Lake in, uh, Texas. Uh, you know that people though. Used to eat like that when they worked on the farms every day. They'd eat like that at night or, and they'd have these big old sausages in the morning and lots of eggs. And

Francis:

I just came from Ireland where I had Irish breakfast every morning. Yeah, I have a friend visited, visited a friend in Northern Ireland and we had a northern Irish fry, and then in. I went to the south and we did the same kind of thing. Yeah, listen, you need to work on a farm. If you have a breakfast like that, I don't know how you, I don't know how those people, you know, to eat like that every day you'd wind up eating a million pounds and you know,

Mark:

but Francis realize that when you're working on a farm all day, you're burning 4,000 calories a day in the sun, outside back breaking work. But now that everybody in the south is working on a farm, come on, and I'm not talking about right now, I'm talking about traditionally where, most of the. The income from people in the south was people working every day? You know

Francis:

what, I'm just thinking back on as we talk. Thinking back on being at the barbecue uhhuh, there weren't a lot of really selt people behind the barbecue stands really was a sort of a look they had about them. Okay. When

Mark:

you're cooking stuff and you're like, ah, not fat enough, us usually that, that, that, uh, transfers to the human being.

Francis:

I don't care what they look like. I just care about the love on the plate. We'll be back in a moment and we're gonna talk with more. Interesting people from different parts of America that are barbecuing from my experience at the Barbecue Festival in New York,

Mark:

Francis, how are things in the city? Were people nice to each other? For Jane?

Francis:

People were loving it. Mark, it was so much fun to be out on the street and having barbecue and people with things they love. Actually, it, it seems

Mark:

so incongruous Francis. I know, I know. Because you got these people who won't look each other in the eyes on the subway. Uhhuh and barbecue is such a familial kind of

Francis:

Oh yeah. People loved it.

Mark:

there are so many different places and barbecue's different from so many places. What do you think is the biggest thing that, that, uh, separates the, the areas?

Francis:

Well, you know, it's interesting. There are two things that really make a difference. One is what you barbecue. Okay. First of all, are you barbecuing pork or are you barbecuing beef? Right? The other thing to worry about is, um. Are you, uh, is what you put on it is the sauce itself. Mm-hmm. And, uh, that makes a pretty huge difference over, over things. So, so there are different

Mark:

types of sauce depending on where you, where you come from or where you go.

Francis:

Yeah. Yeah. But it's all what binds, what binds barbecue is, it's always, and some people will cook barbecue, you know, chickens and Turkey and, and turkeys even, and things like that, but mm-hmm. But. Other people usually barbecue fattier meats'cause that long slow cooking process tenderizes them and gives them a lot of smoke flavor and it's a smokey flavor that comes over time and with great care. So let's go back and listen to some other folks who know a lot more about it than I do. Talk about what makes barbecue different place to place. Alright. Uh, here we're talking with Ron Blasingame from the whole hog cafe. And where is the whole Hog cafe? We're in Little Rock, Arkansas.

Ron:

Uh, we've really enjoyed it. Hospitality has been wonderful and, uh,

Speaker 3:

so all they, I've been

Ron:

here three or four times on business. It's the first time I've ever, you know, been able to come up here and play. Uh, the main thing that's important to us about the sauce. Is that we have six sauces on our table at the restaurant. And the reason is, uh, if you go to the East coast, Florida, South Carolina, they, uh, they like a, um, a mustard sauce. Uh, you may have noticed in the news here in the last couple weeks, there's been, uh, a conflict going on in North Carolina about, uh, Lexington Barbecue versus, um,

Francis:

no, what's that?

Ron:

West Coast? Well, what it is, the state's pretty much split and divided that, uh, uh, one side of the state, like, say, uh. Vinegar and water based, and the other side of the state likes a tomato, ketchup based sauce.

Francis:

This becomes a serious rip.

Ron:

It has. I mean, it's already gone all the way to the legislature,

Francis:

has it really? That's

Ron:

exactly right. Yeah. You

Francis:

people take it, you barbecue very seriously. Yeah. So

Ron:

we do our, uh, well that's in North Carolina. It's not in Arkansas. Right, right. But we do, uh, but barbecue people do take it very seriously. You're right. we have a, a mustard sauce for the Carolina people. We have a tomato sauce for like the Mid-South. And then we have, a light and a heavy molasses sauce for the Texas and, uh. Kansas City people, Kansas City people love that sweet, sweet molasses flavor.

Francis:

Lemme tell you something, I'm in the restaurant business as well as having the radio show and, um, nothing brings people together or makes people more passionate and love or hate than barbecue. What is so special about barbecue that makes people so maniacal?

Ron:

I have no idea other than the fact that probably, uh, I think a lot of people perceive themselves as, you know, and from the backyard cook aspect of it. You know, being, being able to cook the best barbecue, gorilla, best chicken, or whatever, you know. And I guess it just kind of carries over. People seem to, come into our place. They bring in people from out of town. They just like showing us off. I mean, you know, this, this is our barbecue and I guess they think it's better than wherever the other people are from. It's better than their barbecue.

Francis:

Well, I'll tell you, if I ever make it anywhere near Arkansas, we serve and come to your place. Well, I appreciate that. Come see us. Thanks for talking to me.

Ron:

Thank you. Thanks. Take care. Alright, thanks. Y'all. Come back now.

Mark:

We will. Francis, y'all come back. Now you hear. Was that actually a quote from the Beverly Hillbillies? No. Or was that what he actually meant to say? No, the Beverly Hillbillies were coding his grandfather. That was, that's beautiful, man. Beautiful. You gotta respect the heck out of a state that will send legislation. To the house to be passed to decide what kind of barbecue sauce, tomato versus vinegar,

Francis:

baby. That's very important to people in North Carolina. That's beautiful. You have no idea how serious these people are. Okay. I'm pretty serious about food, but this is, this is amazing stuff. Talking to these individuals about it and they're really serious about their, their differences and I think it's sort of great in, in this day and age to still have regional differences.'cause so much of what we see is the same coast to coast. Mm-hmm. These people are about. Local traditions. In a lot of cases, these recipes came from grandparents and great-grandparents on their, their secrets. They're really, really secrets. Like the owner will come in to make the sauce and none of the employees

Mark:

are, are allowed to know how it's made. Mm-hmm. Well, I love that there's such a thing as Kansas City Barbecue and, and I love that there's such a thing as Texas barbecue. Yeah. You know, each, each of these and, and North Carolina is trying to create a single barbecue because it's split in, in it's very important down there. It's great stuff. I love it.

Francis:

Yeah. It really, and, and again. The quality of the food is really, really paramount. Elaine Roar from, uh, Yasu City, Mississippi, I also did talk to about this and, her husband Gary, and she started a small business when he lost his job doing something else. And this is a love that they're pursuing. So let's go listen to them.

Elaine:

I'm Elaine Roark. my husband Gary Roark is actually the pit master for Ubon Barbecue, and we are from Yasu City, Mississippi. Yasu, Yasu. And, um, Ubon was actually Gary's father's name and the barbecue sauce was Gary's grandfather's recipe, Uhhuh, and just kind of handed down. Mm-hmm. From generation to generation, and we have, um, we started cooking on the Memphis and May Circuit to just introduce our barbecue sauce to different people.

Francis:

What's the Memphis and May Circuit?

Elaine:

Um, of course, Memphis in May is the World Championship barbecue contest.

Francis:

I see.

Elaine:

there are probably about a thousand teams that compete annually. On the circuit and, um, we do that on a regular basis, and have had the privilege of actually winning first place at mi.

Francis:

How does Mississippi Barbecue differ from Texas? Barbecue differ from South Carolina Barbecue, Florida Barbecue. What sets Mississippi Barbecue apart?

Elaine:

We typically do pork and Texas is big on beef. Brisket, uh, chicken and they do some pork. And of course in Mississippi we do a sweet, usually tomato-based barbecue sauce. Mm-hmm. And that's usually the, the major difference in. The different regions is the different kind of barbecue sauce,

Francis:

but the, what my friend and I were just commenting on in this barbecue is that it seems to be that you haven't cooked it as far as long. It's not completely fallen apart, and it actually retains a nice moisture and texture. Is that sort of, is that sort of on purpose?

Elaine:

Oh, that's definitely on purpose. That's the way that, uh, good pool pork should be served. It should not be mushy. It, uh, you just have to cook it to that certain point and know that it's ready.

Francis:

So you wanna cook it to the point where you can pull it off the bone, where it's not falling off the bone.

Elaine:

Exactly. And it's not mushy.

Francis:

And it's not mushy. Remember that if you're in Mississippi, you get mushy barbecue. You go up to the person and you see you're standing that back.

Elaine:

That's exactly right.

Francis:

Thanks for talking to us.

Elaine:

You're welcome. And of course we have a, um, restaurant in Yasi City and, um, you, it's called Ubon Naturally. After the sauce,

Francis:

what were you doing before you owned a restaurant?

Elaine:

Gary worked for a company that after 30 years filed bankruptcy and a lot of the employees lost jobs and he had catered for years. It was just natural that he would've opened a restaurant. And of course, I myself, I'm a nurse and I do home care, so I just try to. Support him whenever, you know, he's out here at functions like this.

Francis:

Well, I have bad news for you, in addition to having the radio show, I'm, I'm a restaurateur. I own a restaurant, and, and Anthony over here is our executive chef, and we're here to both tell you that only crazy people enter the restaurant business. Oh. And if you're not crazy when you go in, I'm afraid your husband's lost cause

Elaine:

Oh, listen, I was not coming this week because I had some prior engagements and I decided. He has gone crazy and I better comb with him this week because, uh, that is exactly right.

Francis:

And if we do have crazy mississippians in New York, they should be here with their wives. So we're all glad that you came.

Elaine:

Thank you very much. And you can find our website

Francis:

I'll check it out this afternoon. Thank you so much for getting us our food and talking to us and being so kind.

Mark:

So Francis, uh, from what I just heard, this woman, Elaine Rourke, is afraid to leave her husband alone in New York City.

Francis:

Yeah. You know, I don't know. The whole thing's scary. I don't know the whole thing's scary. I thought her accent was fabulous. Memphis in May. Thousand people participate in Memphis in may thousand teams, and she won first place. That's a beautiful thing. That's pretty cool. It's,

Mark:

that's obviously the food must be spectacular.

Francis:

Well, it was. The food really was spectacular. But did you not love that accent? Wouldn't, yeah. Well, how, how do you not

Mark:

love that accent? Wouldn't you love to have that accent? Little southern bell? No. No.

Francis:

You would sound a little bit ridiculous. Yes. I'm, listen, when we come back, we're gonna talk to Big Bob Gibson. And we got a lot of great interviews from Barbecuers from around the country. And one of the most interesting was a guy named Big Bob Gibson, who is from, Decatur, Alabama. Well, we're gonna talk to him about recipes that have been, longstanding recipes in his family since 1925. Some real history here. So let's listen to what, uh, big Bob had to say. I am Francis Shot. How are you? I'm

Carolyn:

sorry. I'm Carolyn Macklemore with Big Bob Gibson Barbecue. We're from Decatur, Alabama and we have barbecue pull pork. We're six time world champion with that pork. Admit, it's in May and we cook it every day at our two restaurants in Decatur. How long did it take to cook back? Well, this was on. 16 to 20 hours. Some of the shoulders were 18 pounds, some were closer to 20, so about an hour a pound. So give or take a little bit

Francis:

and somebody pins that the whole time.

Carolyn:

Uh, well our cookers are real good at holding the temperature, but um, we cooked them at 2 25 all night and the security guard didn't have to call us one time to tell us that it was either hot or cold. So, and what are

Francis:

the sauces do we have here to put on our barbecue? Well.

Carolyn:

This is our championship Red Uhhuh. Uh, we won Memphis May with it in 97 Uhhuh. We won Kansas City at the American Royal with it. Best sauce on the planet in 98 and Memphis May again in 99. What

Speaker 3:

makes it great?

Carolyn:

It's just a sauce that really compliments our pork.

Francis:

And what are the other options You saw some

Carolyn:

people like it a little hotter. Okay. It's the same base recipe with a little habanera and, uh, just adds a little heat because we do serve it in the restaurant and general public doesn't like it. Too hot. And then we have a mustard sauce for some of those Carolina people. You know that one little mustard in there, Uhhuh Uhhuh. And uh, it's real good. Uh huh And we have a chicken sauce that dates back to the 1925. My husband's grandfather started our restaurant.

Francis:

Well, I wanna thank you for coming all the way up here to, to share real barbecue with us New Yorkers. You don't know much about it.

Carolyn:

We love it and y'all have been very gracious to us. It's a pleasure to come up here and serve New Yorkers.

Francis:

Terrific. Well, we're gonna go eat some of your food and spread the word. Alright, chef, what do you see here? Looking at some, uh, pulled pork, some baked beans, and some championship barbecue sauce. Alright, now we're throwing a little bit of sauce on here on our potato roll. Chef, you have the honors. That barbecue sauce makes that dish. It makes that pork sing. Yeah, the pork is kind of plain. and I'm surprised, surprised how mild it is. But lemme tell you something, this is a tough cut of meat. It's beautiful and tender. Yeah, it's smokey and I'm not a baked beans guy first. My mom used to make really sweet and molasses baked beans. Boston baked beans. Exactly. This ain't them. Nah, these are uh, these are nice. I think this is what she was trying for when she was making the Boston baked beans. That's big Bob Gibson. Chris Lilly's, the pit master from Decatur, Alabama. Ur, Alabama. Should we go get some more barbecue? Yeah, definitely. You see, do you see that I'm picking up a bit of a southern accent'cause I like that woman's accent so much. I've noticed it's quite a, it's, it's, it's quite flattering on you, Francis. You should see Mount St. Patrick's Day. I pick up a lovely brogue. You ready for Mark Q? Let's go Mark Q.

Mark:

Francis, after listening to that segment, I just have to say Decatur and Hara.

Speaker 3:

That's

Mark:

unbelievable. She was great. Oh, she's awesome. I love that. Oh, it was great. The whole thing was great. Um, you know, one of the things that I think that is great about. Uh, getting to meet all these people from all across the country is, you really do see that, that it is a really big country with lots of different people and lots of different kind. Yeah. And most of'em are nicer than people from New Jersey. Certainly nicer than we are. That's for sure. I, you know, man, I love that you're talking about your mom's baked beans. Oh, God, I, I love that you're talking about'em as if she didn't open a can and pour'em into a pot and warm'em up. Mm. That was sort of the end,

Francis:

but, but that was a little improvement. My mom is outside listening area. I'm sorry. She doesn't know how to use the internet. I love her dearly. And she provided for her family every night and we had a good warm meal seven nights a week. Mm-hmm. For a long time. You know, one of the

Mark:

things I never understood about, about barbecue though, and, and where I think they could, they could take a lesson from New Yorkers is what exactly what you were talking about. Those soft potato rolls that you bread, bread. Because they can't make bread in the south. Gimme a ni right, because it's too humid. Ugh. Gimme a nice crunchy piece of bread. Of bread with, with my, my barbecue and I'll be

Francis:

Jules. Yeah, no, there's really no excuse for, and every place is the same where they do barbecue. They just don't, they do beans well, they do slaw well. They do sauce well. Bread is abominable And Francis.

Mark:

Yeah. I'm much more pleasant when I'm jus

Francis:

I'm much more fun to be around. I remember after our first restaurant review, they used the word luscious in their review, and, and, and you adopted that nickname for about a year. I enjoyed being called Luscious. You're a 330 pound, six foot two inch guy named Luscious. That was scary. That was really scary at the time. Well, I, I have to say no. I, I did find that. Everybody there was really, really nice and very informative, and those other side dishes were very important. There is no side dish. Every dish counts. Everything in the plate counts. Exactly. And we're gonna go out and we're gonna go to the south and help them with their bread. Mark. I know you're a big meat fan. Oh, I love my meat. And I know you love to roast a pig as well, which is not quite barbecue.

Mark:

Well, you were around those first couple years when, when I, when I roasted my first,

Francis:

Yeah. We've been friends

Mark:

forever. I'm kind of sick of you all After 20 years. My first trip into the meat market Yeah. Was to pick fraternity event Sigma Pi fraternity, Sigma Pi fraternity. We went, I, I went with a guy by the name of Casey Fowler and we went to the, to the meat district in New York City because that was the only place we could get a whole pig uhhuh to do a barbecue uhhuh. And we used to have an event every year was a big barbecue, hundreds and hundreds of people. We'd roast a pig all day long and literally we'd go the day before and Casey at four o'clock in the morning, be there. Digging in the driveway, dig a big hole in the driveway, fill it with charcoal, and start roasting this pig at five o'clock in the morning. Well, the first pig was a little bit too big. Yeah. Okay. So instead of eating at 6, 7, 8 o'clock Yeah, it was like two o'clock in the morning. And now we had a party, so there was a lot of drinking going, going around. And Casey's sitting out there in front of his, in a lawn chair guarding his pig. Don't touch that pig man. It's not done yet. And literally sitting there and people, drunk, people trying to knee little steal little bits of the pig off the, off the roaster.

Francis:

It was very tribal. I think you fraternity guys have a very tribal thing going on. Oh god. And when he finally gave the go ahead,

Mark:

it was carnage. It was just How

Francis:

long did that little. That sucker instead of chance. Huh? That sucker

Mark:

lasted about four minutes with, with 150 idiots at 2:00 AM after. Drink it all night.

Francis:

Well, you know, actually we have some more interviews with some really interesting people, from around the country. we were gonna talk with Ken Callahan, who started. Barbecue he's the executive chef for Danny Meyer at, at Blue Smoke in New York City. In New York City. Mm-hmm. Which really brought barbecue to Manhattan, which I think is a very fabulous thing. Uh, I also, we're also gonna talk to Ed Mitchell, who barbecues whole hog, which is a very difficult way to barbecue. It's just so, it sounds like you barbecue the entire pig. And so, and then the, the chopped product that you get as a result of that. is the most complex, one of the most complex meats I've ever had, and it's very hard to barbecue whole hog. We're gonna talk to a woman from Smokey Os in St. Louis, Missouri. Uh, and she's gonna talk to us about grilled snoot. I would tell you what grilled snoot is, but you should listen to the rest of the show. Yeah, we should wait for that. The grilled snoot segment's my favorite. Please do stay, stay around. You

Mark:

there was so much interesting stuff that came outta these, these interviews that you and I decided that, that we easily could make this into two shows because, of all the interesting characters and, and almost caricatures that, that you gotta speak with.

Francis:

And, and these people are really passionate about their food and they have some really good points. And you know, the proof is in the pudding as it were. Or the proof is in the bar. Is in the QQ. He short for barbecue. Um, because these people then served us food and it was really they, this guy Ed Mitchell from North Carolina had an 18 wheeler bringing up his barbecues. I love it. Love it. An 18 wheeler, they looked like little battleships. Well, I think, I think we're a little arrogant here in the northeast sometimes to think that, that we have the, you know, the only American food, there are all different kinds of American food being served across the country. Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that what's different is not only that they're, that it's different from here, is that they're different from each other and these people are really passionate about it. So when we come back, we're gonna talk to a few of these folks about barbecue and you're gonna hear me eat some barbecue. That's more exciting than it sounds. Stay tuned. You're listening to the Restaurant Guys, central Street. It better be Central Jersey 1450. New York City had a great little festival, that Francis and the chef went to to taste all kinds of different q from all over the country. But one of the, The interesting places where you can get Q now is New York City, And it's very exciting because, you know, barbecue is not, Indigenous to New York. Barbecue is indigenous to a lot of different places and you know, there's, there's, in North Carolina, the state, it went to the state legislature because the west. of North Carolina likes barbecue sauce with tomatoes in the east North Carolina, like vinegar and water sauce. So they're, they're battling it out in a legislature. Right. Literally went to the state legislature. I love it. I love, I love when people are passionate about their food, but I love it. And there's a lot of barbecue in New York up in Harlem now. Mm-hmm. Uh, but the big splash downtown barbecue is Blue Smoke owned by Danny Meyer. Danny Meyer owns Union Square Cafe. He owns Gram Tavern, some, some of New York City's best restaurants. And that he's doing barbecue is, is a really big deal, I think. And his great Ur and Ken Callahan is his, is his executive chef at a restaurant called Blue Smoke. And they are really making waves in the barbecue world and here in New York. And what's more interesting about this guy is you can go and try his food. So let's listen to what he has to say.

Ken Callahan:

Uh, Kenny Callahan, executive Chef Pitmaster or Blue Smoke, New York City. Now

Francis:

you've kind of blazed new trails with blue smoke, I mean for like a big production barbecue. Serious barbecue in Manhattan. Sure. Um, how hell do you wind up doing that?

Ken Callahan:

Well, you know, we originally, uh, intended to, to open up a joint, you know, just a, a barbecue joint. And then, uh, you know, and I had come from a fine dining background, you know, I was the executive sous chef at Union Square Cafe for the last five years of my career over there. And, uh, so, I mean, I was really running the place over there and that's where my roots were, was in fine dining. So, you know, I just started messing around with trying to get the barbecue as best as we could be, and then really surrounded with really high quality ingredients and, uh, really kind of raise the level of, of all the food or surrounding the barbecue because as you know, in, typically in barbecue joints around the country, you have your brisket. If you're in Texas and it's beans and slaw and you and one bottle beer and it's wrangled, right? One bottle beer and usually one of those side ditches doesn't, it's, you know, it's bad, you know? Right. I'm just trying to bring the level. Of all the ingredients and food around the barbecue up to a different level to give people more options. And you know, we're in New York City, they're uh, much more sophisticated pallets here. Yep. And people respond to it.

Francis:

How do you barbecue in New York City? How do you have a pit? How do you make that work? What makes barbecue work that's different than other people are sort of the pretenders to the throne.

Ken Callahan:

Well, you have to have the equipment, you have to have the ability to be able to produce good smoked quality meat uhhuh, which, you know, that's what, if you don't buy the equipment, you don't invest in it. And it's very difficult to do in New York City with all the, uh, codes and the fire restrictions and regulations and all of that. Uh, so

Francis:

if the special air, uh, scrubbing equipment for the, for the

Ken Callahan:

ignition. Yep, exactly. And, uh, and, and, and it's very expensive stuff. And if, and if you, if you don't spend the money, then you're gonna be cheating. You're gonna either gonna be steaming brazing or boiling your ribs with some kind of liquid smoke or other marinade. And, uh, I mean, you can clearly tell the difference as soon as you see the meat and you bite into it. That stuff is either brown or gray on the inside was once you smoke with, uh, with wood. Then it automatically gets that red hue to it. Right. And that's the smoke rig.

Francis:

And did you, now, do you, um, you smoke with wood exclusively in, in at boost smoke? I mean, how, how, how's your equipment work at Boost smoke?

Ken Callahan:

I mean, is it gas

Francis:

assisted?

Ken Callahan:

What, how does it work? It's gas assisted. So what what'll happen is, well, a load, my, uh, my pit, I'll fire it up with wood and the gas will come in to ignite the wood, and then basically the wood will just burn down the coals. And then finishes off, uh, on the coals, just like that. Well, I gotta tell you, made a lot of waves in New York. I've been to blue smoke, and that's really pretty enjoyable. But it's nice to be out here on the street as well. Well, it's an unbelievable day. I mean, you see the way New Yorkers respond to barbecue here. I mean, I can't even imagine how many thousands of people are here today. I mean, it's gotta be, gotta be 20, 30,000 people here just today, right?

Francis:

Yeah, there are. And some of'em are really good looking. I don't know if you noticed.

Ken Callahan:

No, I

Francis:

haven't noticed. But evidently good looking women like barbecue and I like so I like barbecue too. Exactly. I like barbecue. Good looking women too. Thanks a lot, man.

Mark:

So, Francis, you went to this barbecue. I thought you were working, not working it. What was up with that? I was so playing it, mark. I had the microphone with the CTC flag. There are a bunch of interviews that we're not gonna get to hear or No, but I got some numbers. Hey man, girls who like fat girls who like flavor. I'm a fat guy actually there. You were probably a skinny guy. I was actually. But uh, you know, we were talk, you were talking to Ken Callahan there. When did it make you upset? If I tell you that I interviewed someone without him putting the microphone on, I'm recording. I would believe it for sure. That's a lie, but it's a nice fantasy. So anything we, we were talking about two different things though that I, that I want to get into. The first is, I, I think that a lot of times people, uh, don't use as, as good of ingredients around their barbecue and, and they spend so much time focusing on the barbecue itself, that, that other things fall by the wayside. And, and we talked a little bit about bread and some, some of the other side dishes aren't as good as they could be. One of the things that Ken Callahan said was, he is a chef. He, he is a. Trained in other areas and then spent a lot of time learning about barbecue to be able to do barbecue and getting the right equipment and having the right support from Danny Meyer. Right. Um. So he is able to do those things. Remember, most of these people who are making barbecue are making the barbecue the way that was handed down to them from generation to generation. Sure. And so, you know what? The rolls didn't get into the generational mix. Well that's, you know, and he mentioned liquid smoke. Okay. No true barbecue or ever would use liquid smoke. Liquid smoke is, is just what it sounds like. It's something you rub on the meat in liquid form in. So it pretends that it was smoke. Well, and when you go to corporate places, I mean, that's what you're getting, right? Unfortunately. And my favorite interview at all came from the people at Smokey O's in St. Louis, Missouri, because, and their specialty there is snoot and I didn't know what Snoot was, but I do now. And you're going to, in just a second,

Francis:

your place is Smokey O's. Yes, sir. That's a pretty good name. Where? Where's Smokey O's?

Speaker 9:

Located in St. Louis, Missouri at 1545 North Broadway.

Francis:

We're a long way from Missouri. Is it worth the trip?

Speaker 9:

It increases our, visibility toward the product that we serve. And the, uh, Snoop is becoming a nationally known product where previously it was only known in, uh, St. Louis. What's Snu? Snu is the anterior prolongation of the pig's nose uhhuh.

Francis:

And that's, that's your specialty?

Speaker 9:

Well, it's one of our specialties, actually. Barbecue is our specialty. We barbecue anything from, uh, from the pig's nose to the actual, um, from the root to the Tudor. Our process in preparing the snoot is actually a secret, but we do not grill it. We do not. Fry it. The process that we use, we have taken all of the fat out of that snu. We also have dehydrated it, so there is no cholesterol in the snu. It's a true delicacy that is, uh, really fat free. And all of our customers, they become addicted. Once they try it, they become addicted to soup. We can't keep it in the restaurant.

Francis:

It's fat free barbecue.

Speaker 9:

Exactly.

Francis:

It's the only barbecue that's good for you.

Speaker 9:

Okay, thank you. And when you're in St. Louis, come to Smokey O's if you crave barbecue, we have it. Come get it.

Mark:

Francis, did she really say from the ruder to the tutor?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Mark:

Can I tell you, the first time I heard that tape, I, I was listening to it. I was sitting next to Jennifer. I was like, Jennifer, rewind that. I think she said, I think she said. We roast the whole pig from the rooter to the tud, from the root to the Tudor. It's funny'cause she was a little bit rigid until then. She sounded a little tense. Yeah. And then as soon as she said from the Rooter to the Tudor, that's she loosened right up. That's her line. I'd say. I love it. And when she said, we'll, barbecue anything, I think she meant it. I was a little scared, you know? And all these years that I've been calling you a snoot, I didn't know what I was, what I was calling you. But now I do. Well, everybody out there, the anterior prolongation of the nose, Francis, that's you of the page's nose. Well, if any of you wanna try Snoop, we're not gonna be serving it at staged left anytime soon. So you're gonna have to go down to St. Louis, Missouri, have the address. Hold on the line. We have it. Come and get it. That's like, that's like my favorite. That's, that's, that's my favorite line of all I want. I wanna get a bumper sticker that says that. So you're listening to the restaurant guys, we have it. Come and get it every day from 11:00 AM to noon and we'll be back after the news. Talking more with Ed Mitchell Lu's whole hog barbecue in North Carolina, That, that was a beautiful segment. We just did. Francis, for those of you who just tuned in, we are doing a segment on, we're doing a show today on barbecue and we just had the most beautiful interview of all times. You, you gotta play that one more time. You're gonna hear just this, that one. Snitch it. Play it. One more time for it, please. That is, that is the best 10 seconds of the Restaurant guys radio show. So far

Francis:

ever. Okay. Alright. You ready? Here it goes.

Speaker 9:

Barbecue is our specialty. We barbecue anything from, uh, from the pig's nose to the actual, um, from the rooter to the t.

Mark:

That was beautiful. Oh, she's great. That was beautiful. From the router to the Tudor. Jeez. Everybody know what the router is? Yeah. And I don't need to explain the other, explain the other one. Do I? Oh my God, that's hysterical. I gotta tell you something. That's, that's going to restaurant guys Hall of Fame right there. Snoot is an acquired taste too. I'll tell you something. Is it how you gotta tell me? How was the snoot? Uh, that woman was very nice. Fat free snoot. She was very nice. Anyway, it's not gonna be a special at stage left anytime we're, we're not doing that. But uh, I have to say the other stuff, it's not snoot snoot. It's not good. It's not just good. It's good for you. It's good for you. We got, I got there. New tagline. You know, it reminds me that we, we have it come and get it. Reminds me of the Brock when I was working in a supermarket as a young kid, I, you know, those Brock's candies that you used to buy? Sure. The first bulk candy that you could get. Yeah, I used to love those. And, uh, they, the Brocks fa the Brock's logo was on the side of every box as we'd pack them out. You ready for the Brocks logo? Yeah. Uh, candy is good food. Eat some every day. I love it. I hope they didn't pay somebody a lot to come up with. I, well, I, you know, the best part of that last segment we just did was it really sounded like she was trying to do a commercial. Oh yeah, she was, and I let her,'cause it was a great one she got and, and it's good from, and it's from the router to the Tudor. That's good. And there it was commercial over, uh, that's it. Commercial. Commercial went right into comedy. It was, but no, I think that's part of the commercial. Well, you know, we, I have another guy that, that, that I talked to, a guy named Ed Mitchell from North Carolina. This guy. I think he's my favorite over everybody that was there. This guy, uh, came up from North Carolina with his own 18 wheeler filled with the barbecue pits. Mm-hmm. To do whole hog barbecue. So what he basically does, he takes your home oil tank. Cuts it in half and puts a sea in it. Um, and the coals go on the bottom and the pig goes on the top. He was splitting the pigs. He was roasting'em half at a time. That's his version of cheating. Right? Um, but he does So it takes 16 hours instead Exactly. Instead of 25. But in, but in, but in North Carolina, he does the whole hog together. And what's interesting about it's, he takes the meat of the whole hog. So you get all the different parts of the, you know, the, the bacon and the belly and the tenderloin and the trotters and the whole thing. And he, and you know, he doesn't start like different pieces, that's all cut and scraped outta the pig in it. And then this, you get a bit of the skin and it's unbelievably complex. It's really unbelievably complex. And literally four star restaurant in Manhattan served this man's barbecue as a component on a dish. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. So he is the real deal. That's what you're saying. Oh, man. And to see this, you know, convoy of things that he'd roll out of his own 18 wheeler and all going and all being, uh, attended with Loving Care. It's really great. Why don't we hear what Mr. Mitchell has to say? Love it. Ed Mitchell from Ed Mitchell's in North Carolina.

Francis:

All right, well, we're here, we're talking with Ed Mitchell of Mitchell's Barbecue, uh, in Wilson, North Carolina. And you've come all the way from Wilson, North Carolina to New York City. How's trip? Oh, trip's been great. Yeah. Yep.

Ed Mitchell:

Trip's been great. Beautiful day.

Francis:

And how you be hospitable or nasty like they say.

Ed Mitchell:

Oh, the great, great. Very hospitable. I gotta say, I,

Francis:

I'm looking at a line right now of hundreds of hundreds of people of New Yorkers standing on line. On Madison Avenue to wait for Ed Mitchell's barbecue. How does that make you feel?

Ed Mitchell:

Great. Super great. As a matter of fact, uh, these guys have adopted me as their home guy, so, and I'm very proud of that.

Francis:

Okay, so now all the barbecue, do you have all the pulled bargain everyth? This is whole hog you did today. Yeah.

Ed Mitchell:

I'm the only crazy guy that come up here and cook 30 whole hogs,

Francis:

and that's something. Well, now where did you cook? 30 whole hogs in New York. Where'd you have the equipment? You truck it in yourself?

Ed Mitchell:

Oh, no. Those 10 cook out there, my man, we rotate 10 around.

Francis:

I didn't notice that before. You have a, you have a like a convoy. That's right. Looks like 10 battleships out here. That's what we got. They call hog.

Ed Mitchell:

That's what we got. And we brought'em up on my 18 wheeler transporter, which is over there. And, uh, each one of'em have to be individual chambers because each one has to cook separately for 12 or 14 hours.

Francis:

Alright, I'm impressed. Okay. Okay. Now what, what would you say makes Eastern Barbecue different? We're asking everybody to sort the same question. What makes Eastern Barbecue different from Texas Barbecue different from regional barbecues around America?

Ed Mitchell:

Uh, according to the history of barbecue, the North Carolina has been considered somewhat the cradle, and it started out cooking a whole hog. And as it moved around at various other locations, then people began to separate different portions that they were comfortable cooking, but really it originally started out cooking that whole hog. Hey Chef, why don't you describe to people what we're looking at. Looking at what is this An oil tank? Oil oil

Francis:

tank.

Ed Mitchell:

What? Converted into a chamber. A whole oil tank. Yep. Convert into a chamber because the whole heats very well. And oh my God,

Francis:

say, oh my God. Oh my God. But you, we have a split pig roasting over is this charcoal? Underneath

Ed Mitchell:

charcoal and we have a blend of heat and wood. Oh,

Francis:

smell that wood. Yeah. Smell the pig in the wood. You can still see the USDA stamp on the, on the shoulder of the pig. That is amazing.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Francis:

Everything by the head hoof on, that's right. Two halves of a gutted pig. Yep. And look, its name was Mary. It's got the collar around his neck. Okay. Alright. Now you got this whole hog, it's all cooked all the way through and you just pull all the meat. I mean, how do you, do you handle different parts of the pig differently or what?

Ed Mitchell:

No, no, no. We, once he's done, we take him all up and then we put him on the chopping block and we actually can hold the meat right out. And then we go through a chopping technique that gives you that blend of flavors that we were talking about, which blends all the different portions of the animal, like the tender. He, the chef knows what I'm talking about, the parts to make the bacon out of, and the sausage. And then we blend it together and give you a taste of what it really supposed to taste like.

Francis:

Wow. That's pretty amazing. Thanks a lot Mr. Mitchell. Quite welcome. Thank you. Let's go try some of Mr. Mitchell's food. This just looks different now. We just got talking to Mr. Mitchell about why his pork is different.'cause he does a whole hog and then he basically blends up all the different parts of the hog. It means. You know, some of the less appetizing stuff. Some of the more appetizing stuff. There were definitely feet on

Speaker 15:

those pigs, so they wound up somewhere. So they're in here, man. Exactly. You know, it's funny to watch. I mean, he is, it's almost like watching an artist at work. He's taking apart this whole animal and just putting together this blend of meat that's just, it's delightful. I mean, there's no other way to describe it. It looks different than all the other barbecue you've had here. Yeah. Well, it's funny to listen to him describe his chopping method when they take the pig apart as soon as they probably pull the skin back and, and they start to kind of combine the meats and the different areas of the pig to make up this blend. It's funny, you had just mentioned the word pate before and it, it has almost that texture. It's unique and it's Oh, so tasty.

Francis:

It's America's answer to a pate because like he said, you do get, get the pig's feet and you get the tr, you know, you get the trotters in there, you get the bacon part in there, you get the fat back in there. It's deli. It's absolutely. Remarkably complex and delicious.

Speaker 15:

I mean, food like this is special. I mean, it's, it's almost sad that he's so far away. I go to North Carolina for this. I mean, not tomorrow,

Francis:

but let's walk and get some more. All right.

Mark:

Alright, Francis, I have whole new respect for, for the expression going whole hog. Wow. That I'm dreaming about that still. That was so amazing. I, I, I'm, I'm very upset that I missed it. And I'm even more upset. You didn't bring some home for Yeah, I'm sorry. You were home with the baby. You weren't even gonna work. Come on, come on. That was, wasn't that far. You could have brought some That was, that was really, really complex food. And when I tell you that literally if we served that and just people didn't know what it was, and we served like the, the meat itself, and we put a slightly different presentation on it for four star, four star food, seven to place. So that, so that was your favorite at Mitchell's? I have to say it was the whole hog barbecue was, was a revelation to me. so let me see if I got this right. What he did was he took, he cooked the whole hog, and then when he presented it to you, as for your portion, you got a mixed plate. I got stick full of meat. All these d of all the different parts of, yeah, no, but it just, it, it looked like it was sort of, it wasn't ground meat, but it was chopped meat. You didn't know what was what. It was sort of like a hash of the different parts of the hog and it's just like a big cleaver and, and worked it all down from, I have no idea. Okay. Well we saw, we saw them take the hogs off and put'em in the chopping block, but he said he had a special technique. I didn't know exactly what it was, but I mean, it was all the different parts of the meat and spices and the fat was throughout and you could taste all these different textures. It was absolutely incredible and I would go down to North Carolina for that. Yeah, we'll definitely put all the, all the websites to each place and that we talked about in the last two days. And, and if you're a real foodie and feel like making a road trip, you could do a road trip, barbecue, take a couple of days, and go to barbecue in a couple of different places. It sounds great. I mean, I have a motorcycle and I'm thinking that that might be a nice little way to, you know, find a destination, you know what I mean? No, I would definitely do it if I didn't have to go with you. Well, you, you, I don't know that I could control the motorcycle with you on the back of it there, Mr. Mark. I, I'm sure you could. Um, but we'll put that up on the website If you wanna try barbecuing at home. I suggest you probably don't start with a whole hog thing, but there are ways to do it and be real about it. It's, it's really quite a large endeavor, Yeah. Just remember this isn't a two hour process. No, it's the long. Long, slow cook. It's like overnight, 16, 18 hours if you want to, if you wanna really barbecue and you gotta tend the fire. Right. So, you know, you gotta buy some equipment because if you wanna bury like you did in in college, in the backyard, you gotta have somebody standing there. Yep. You gotta keep a thermometer in there. It's, well, it's, it's a long process and, and you can buy whole hogs in Manhattan, in the, in the meat district. Yeah. You can just go right into those places, order a whole hog and they'll have it ready for you and you just throw in the back in a pickup and off you go. Or, or in the SUV and off you go. And, and I was saying my first foray into the New York City meat market was with Casey to get the pigs for the, the Sigma Pi pig roasts. But the thing I didn't, that I left out of yesterday's, discussion of this Yeah. Was Casey, after the first couple years ago and into the meat market. That wasn't good enough for Casey after that. He used to, he started going to the farm directly butchering the pig himself, killing a pig himself, right? Killing the pig himself. And then he would bleed it and bring it back to, to the fraternity house. I love that. Where he would then cook it for 18 hours and stand guard over that pig, so nobody would get to touch it until that pig was absolutely perfect and absolutely ready. And let me tell you something. Holding 150 drunk people from a fraternity party, fortunately away from a. From a pig that's roasting and been roasting in the front yard for 17 hours. Fortunately, Casey's a big guy and so are you. That's a lot of work, I tell you that, that that's a lot of fun. And I, I think it's, it was a blast. I think it's important when people get, I mean, when people do, like what Casey did is like, you know, if you're not a vegetarian and you eat meat, I mean, for people to understand that, you know, we do kill animals for food, but whether we do it humanely or not, how we do it, how that animal raised those things are all, you know, it's not a, a simple black and white issue, you know? Right. Well, I, I like that he. Went all the way back and started at the beginning of the process. Yeah. So I think one of the things that, that we don't do enough of, and, and we kind of, kind of divorce ourself from the, from the process of bringing meat to the table. It's, it is a process and, and it, it doesn't, chickens don't come quartered. Right? Right. That's, that's not the way they occur in nature. What does chicken come from? Doesn't come in a plastic bag. Right. You know, when we have barbecue around here, I don't know what they, you know, there's a lot of local beer drinking with it going on down south, but usually that would be a typical thing to do is to drink beer with, but I'm a wine guy. I like wine. Well, I think that, that people don't realize that wine can go with barbecue too. I think wine can go really great with barbecue. Mm-hmm. I think beer goes really well with barbecue as well, but, but with barbecue, which is different than your grilled meat out on the, in the backyard because barbecue is not a rare red meat. One of the surprising things to go with barbecue is German or Austrian Riesling. It, it's a great touch. Actually. We have a dish on, on the menu right now. It's a, it's a spicy lamb sausage and Riesling is. Beautiful with it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. you know, especially if it's a little bit spicy mm-hmm. If you've got a little, little bit of spice to it. Riesling is a great, great compliment. People are afraid of Rieslings because they think that Rieslings are always sweet. Mm-hmm. And often German rieslings do have some sweetness to them, but they range in from, from the very dry, the truck and wines from Germany are very dry and the hob truck and wines are very dry all the way to some of the al slices and burnes or dessert wines. But that's something you need to ask your local merchant about. Right. And, and, um, or your, or your wine guy in the restaurant. Um. But with a nice, but, but I'll tell you right now, even for your backyard barbecue, as long as you're not having rare red meat right? This is not gonna go with your rare cheeseburger. Right? Okay. But for, for your ribs that have been cooking for six, eight hours, right? For, for your, uh, sausages, especially if you like your burgers like spicy sausage, if you like your burgers, like my Irish relatives, like their burgers, which is good for six hours, they will go well with it. But without, aside from railroad meat, people are really, I can't recommend riesling enough. And there are actually some Australian rieslings that are really great as well. Um, and. It's, it's very complex how it interplays and it's sort of surprising'cause people think, oh, I have meat, I have to have red wine. Right. No, you don't. And the reason we'll also go with fish if you like oysters. One of the things I like to do out in the backyard is I always like to, um, whenever I can open oysters to order or open them on the grill, but there's some reds that'll work here too. Yeah, I think, well, what do you suggest, mark? Well, if you go with a Zinfandel, a red Zinfandel, not a white Zinfandel, red Zinfandel, or you go with a Syrah or a wine like that, that's gonna have a little bit higher fruit content to it. A little petite sra maybe? Yeah, a little. And, and a wine that'll, that'll have some softness and some spiciness to, to work as both a compliment, uh, with the, with the, uh. And barbecue sauce and those wines, Zinfandel and Syrah and Petit Sirrah will also go well with your rare hamburgers. Exactly. And your rare steaks. Exactly. And so they're a very versatile red wine. I can't stress to you enough, if you're outside and you're serving wine, especially red wine, you need to chill it down. It cannot, if it's 78 degrees outside. Yeah. Your 78 degree wine is gonna taste like alcohol and lollipops, right? And even worse, when it gets up to 90 or 95 degrees, you're gonna it, you're not gonna understand why the wine tastes so bad. Cellar temperature, we're talking about 55, 58, 62 degrees, especially for these wines, the, the reds that get higher in alcohol. And don't be afraid to take a little bit of that red wine and just drop it on ice for a few minutes. If it gets too hot, it's perfectly okay. Once you've opened the bottle, Francis doesn't mean put ice cubes in it. He means drop it on ice. Yeah, put the whole bottle on ice. Yeah, you don't wanna dilute it with the ice cubes. mark, we've done our whole show today on barbecue and, uh, one of the things that I think is so interesting is when people around here say, oh, come on over to my house for barbecue. They should say, come on over to my house to grill. Um, because I think that the guys in New York, I asked them all what they had to say about local people barbecuing. Mm-hmm. And, uh, let's hear what Ed Mitchell had to say about local New Jersey barbecue. I.

Francis:

Now you're, you're as serious. As serious as can be. And I wanna go on another end of the spectrum. Our radio station is broadcast out in New Jersey where we got a lot of guys who have day jobs during the week and they got a, a nice suburban lawn in the backyard and they got a Weber grill, and it's probably even just a gas grill. They turn it on, light it up and throw a couple of steaks on there and they say to their friends. And so why don't you come over to my house for barbecue? What do you have to say to those people?

Ed Mitchell:

Well, I say, you know, those guys are comfortable doing what they do. That's their thing, but is what they do barbecue. Uh, if they wanna do barbecue, tell'em, come find Ed Mitchell. Let, let's, let's put on about a hundred and seventy five, two hundred pound a whole hog, and let's see what we've got.

Francis:

Gonna need a bigger grill. Thanks for talking to us, Mr. Mitchell. You're quite welcome. Thank you. Thanks

Ed Mitchell:

a lot. Alright.

Mark:

That, that was absolutely great. I, I'll tell you, I, I missed it last this, this past one. I will not miss it next year. I know we're going together. There is no shot that you're going without me next year. I promise not to have another baby next year. And we, and I am going, I had this picture when I was talking to the guy of you with your Weber grill in the backyard and me showing up with 175 pound hog throwing it on there. I don't think it gone over so well. Uh, I, again, Francis, this has been a great

Francis:

show out

Mark:

I love this kind of food. Yeah, I absolutely adore great barbecue sauce. One that's not too sticky, sweet one that's just kind of smoky and, and delicious, and in an era when you can get everything delivered to your home. Mm-hmm. You still have to travel if you want to try the different kinds of barbecue. And I think that that's great because the barbecue itself can be a destination and I recommend it for a summer trip. I think next spring I'm gonna go on a barbecue tour of the middle west and south. So maybe we'll catch a ball game in, uh, in Kansas City and go get some Kansas City barbecue. Sure, I, you'll have to explain the rules of the ball game to me. Three outs an inning, but I know barbecue pretty well. Well, I hope you've enjoyed this time with us couple of days talking about barbecue and touring the country. Uh, and next year we're gonna do it again. Maybe we'll go down and do it ourselves. Have you enjoyed yourself, mark? Oh, so much. I certainly have. Well, you spent another hour listening to the restaurant guys. Uh, I'm Francis Shot. And I'm Mark Pasco. We are the restaurant guys, central Jersey 1415 to time

Francis:

this 12.