TEASER! Charlie Trotter Gives Lessons in Excellence *V*

This is  TEASER of a Vintage Selection from 2005

The Banter

The Guys talk about their restaurant philosophy and how cultivating a team of people who share your vision is what will sustain you. However, Francis does not share Mark’s vision of going to a Cub’s game.

The Conversation

The Restaurant Guys are thrilled to have Charlie Trotter on the show to talk about excellence, foie gras and a restaurant that he had planned to open in New York that never came to fruition.

The Inside Track

The Guys have been fans of Charlie’s for a long time yet did not fully realize their similar attitudes on experiential dining.

“ The vision we've had here has been to try to deliver an experience where the food part of it, the service part of it, the wine and beverage part of it, and the ambiance all add up to something greater than the sum of the parts.

So with myself as the chef-operator obsessing about food, almost to the point where it's perverse, I still don't even think that food is the most important part of the dining experience,” Charlie Trotter on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2025 

Bio

Charlie Trotter opened Charlie Trotter’s Restaurant in 1987. Twice it received two Michelin stars. He closed it in 2012. Restaurant Charlie in Las Vegas received the Michelin Guide One Star Award. He opened other concepts such as a high-end delicatessen store and a seafood restaurant in Mexico.

He received the James Beard Foundation Humanitarian of the Year Award for his philanthropic work.

Trotter was the host of the 1999 PBS cooking show The Kitchen Sessions with Charlie Trotter.

Info

Charlie’s Book (mentioned in the show)

Lessons in Excellence from Charlie Trotter

by Paul Clarke

Guest Chef Dinner Series at Charlie Trotter’s 2025 

https://www.charlie-trotters.com/

If you’d like to hear the full 2009 conversation, listen here:

https://www.restaurantguyspodcast.com/episode-26-charlie-trotter

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Transcript

Mark: 2:09

Morning, Francis. Good morning, mark. Pretty special show today.

Francis: 2:12

Very special show today everyone. We have as a guest, uh, coming up a little bit later, we're gonna be talking with Charlie Trotter. And, uh, Charlie Trotter, for those of you who don't know if you've been living under a rock somewhere, uh, is perhaps the most influential chef in America. His restaurant Charlie Trotters in Chicago has been called the Best Restaurant in the world for Wine and Food by Wine Spectator Magazine. Um, he's been called the Best Restaurant in America by several magazines. He has five stars from the Mobile Travel Guide, five Diamonds from aaa. he's a member of Re and Chateau and, and he's an author of o over a dozen books, um, some of which have. Been very important to us. Uh, and he's the father of a generation of, of American cooks. You can't

Mark: 2:53

really get much bigger than that, can you, chef?

Francis: 2:54

No. You can't get bigger than Trotter. That's, that's pretty cool. So he's gonna come and talk to us, um, a little bit later. And one of the interesting things about Chef Trotter is gonna be opening a restaurant in New York.

Mark: 3:05

Yeah, that's gonna be great.

Francis: 3:06

Well, and something that's, that is a little unusual about in, in an era of chefs that, you know, sort of grow as superstar chefs and have multiple television shows and open restaurants all across America and restaurants on two continents and in multiple countries. Charlie Trotter's been doing this for 17 years, and he's been at, you know, rated among the best restaurants in the country, uh, from the very beginning. And he right from the start, and he has a lot of celebrity. Um, but he's gone very, very slowly in expanding. Mm-hmm. And that's one of the reasons Trotter's remains.

Mark: 3:35

Well, he is done a lot of books and a lot of cookbooks and even a, even a television show. But, uh, as far as his, his restaurants expanding, you know, it's been one little piece at a time. Um, and I really respect that.

Francis: 3:46

Absolutely. And when, and so his, his new restaurant that is gonna be opening in the Time Warner Center in New York, uh, coming this spring or summer, I think it'll be opening in the summer is, is pretty exciting. Thing for us here in the East coast to be able to try some of that food without flying 1500 miles to do so. You know, actually try to, many of you may remember there was a chef named David Drake who ran the stage house in, in Scotch Plains for a long time. That's changed ownership and I think they're still doing well. But David, I think when he was cooking, was probably the best chef cooking in New Jersey. Um, no offense to any of my many chef friends, but David was, and man, I know many of them agree. He was, he's an amazingly talented chef and he was the O chef owner. And one year he took his entire kitchen staff to Trotters for dinner. Flew them out to Chicago,

Mark: 4:27

flew them to Chicago dinner. for Chef Trotter. I mean, I think that would be such a compliment that somebody would, who is in their own respect, a very, very good chef. But say, you know what? You wanna see who's really doing it right. Let's go to Chicago. I'll fly you all out there. We'll spend the weekend and we'll go to Trotters and see. What the best restaurant in America's doing

Francis: 4:43

and you know, we, we are really, we're the restaurant guys, but we haven't been to Trout's restaurant and that's have

Mark: 4:47

not,

Francis: 4:48

that's a big hole. We need to fly to Chicago, like this weekend, Chicago,

Mark: 4:50

I haven't been to Chicago since about 85, so it's not fair. Well, he wasn't open yet.

Francis: 4:55

But though we haven't been to, Trout's restaurant, we have take, we've taken a lot of influence from him. One of his proteges, a woman named Roxanne Klein, we were big fans of her restaurant. Whenever we'd go buying wine in California mm-hmm. We would stop into her restaurant and, uh, she was a protege of his. Hopefully we'll talk with Chef Rader about. Her and, and his involvement in raw

Mark: 5:10

food, raw that, I mean, his book Raw, I think kind of was a whole new revolution for food for, just a whole new generation of people that people didn't even consider this as being a, a, a, a line

Francis: 5:22

of cuisine. And we're gonna talk about raw food with Chef Trotter in, in a moment or two, but, but he's influenced us through his books and his books. Some of his books are cookbooks, but some of his books. Are are just, they're, they're used as, um, as guides for business people in general, a management tool for anyone involved in any sort of project, whether it's business or not. And one of the books, which, which meant a lot to us mm-hmm. Was lessons and excellence, what was funny is many of the things that we found in that book. We found that we operate on a similar philosophy. And many of the things that we found in that book that we hadn't previously, uh, operated under mm-hmm. We then adopted as our own philosophy. But I was struck by a quote in the book where he said, and this is a quote from, uh. Lessons in Excellence by Charlie Trady says, I've very rarely brought in anyone from the outside. I've always brought people up, trained them exactly the way I want to train them, and as a result, they helped me to execute the vision that they've learned. Mm-hmm. And you know, I don't know if that was for him, the way he decided he always wanted to do things, but Mark and I, we've run Stage Left, which Thank Heaven has, has received, you know, a claim is one of the best restaurants in Jersey. We've been there for 13 years and that's how we do things, right. Almost everyone who works for us has come up. From a, a busing position, and I don't think that was intentional when we started, including our nature D Yeah. Right. Who's been with us for 11 years or, or, or so.

Mark: 6:35

Well, one of the things that, that I realized very early on it, it really didn't take very much time, is that experience sometimes can be bad. If you work with somebody who's, gotten bad habits from somebody else, you need to reteach that person. Much more difficult than teaching someone is to unteach them and then teach them again. And also, you know, a lot of restaurants, certainly in this area, people just don't have the right attitude. They, they don't have the right attitude about restaurants that it, that it's the person sitting in the seat needs to perceive nothing but magic happening at their tables. And the answer to, to all questions should always be yes, or of course.

Francis: 7:11

Well, I think also that, and again, we didn't start with this as a policy, we just found ourselves, we always said, you know, our favorite relationships are long-term relationships. Mm-hmm. You know, and so we have very four of the restaurants in this area, we have very low turnover. We have a number of people who've been with us four in five years. Mm-hmm. And they're the most valuable people. Because these are people, yeah. They're waiters in the restaurant, they're captains or sommelier or the MA of mage in the restaurant. But there are also people that we, at the end of the night, we sit down and we say, you know what, what about what happens tonight? Or what do you think about taking the restaurant in this new direction? Mm-hmm. And there are people whose opinions are really important'cause you're all following the same dream,

Mark: 7:44

you know, in, in, and actually I was rereading through lessons in excellence last night. One of the things that I, that I remembered that, that really was similar in the two organizations. Most of our employees work for us, either fewer than 30 days or more than four years. Yeah. And, and the reason for that is. It's a very hard job and most people aren't cut out for it. Most people aren't cut out to be the best to do, to be the absolute top of the top.

Francis: 8:11

But it's not only that it's too hard, but it's also, it's not only too hard, it's that you have to really be into it. Mm-hmm. I think that people who work for us make good money, but. It's not, it's not enough. Mm-hmm. We're much too hard to work for. Right. We're much too mean to work for. Um, if it's just about the money they have to love great food and love great wine and it needs to be people who are into food and wine and people who read and people who. People get it and people who need to be great about this. I,

Mark: 8:34

I, one of the things I say to all our employees, or actually all, all our applicants, when I'm trying to scare them off, and I, and truly when I'm interviewing somebody, once they've gotten to that second interview with me, I am trying to scare them off. I'm trying to make sure they understand all the bad things that are, that are gonna happen to them. And I tell'em they have to have three qualities that have to be reasonably intelligent. They have to be extremely hardworking, and they have to have a desire to be the best. Because if you don't have the desire to be the best, it's not worth it. It's just not worth it. The difference between good and very good is relatively small as compared to the difference between very good and excellent

Francis: 9:09

and, and you're also trying to scare them away because if they come and work for you for a week and then they, they run from the room mm-hmm. Burst into tears and run from the room, then you've wasted their time and yous being, speaking of being the best though, we're gonna speak with Charlie Trotter, who has been called by many, uh, the best chef in America when we come back and Charlie will be talking with, with us about his new restaurant he's gonna be opening in New York as well as. His myriad interests, and the many people as he's influenced over the years. So do stay tuned to the restaurant guys,

Mark: 9:33

Hello and welcome back. You're listening to Mark Pascal and Francis Shot. We are the restaurant guys. Today our special guest is Chef Charlie Trotter from Trotters in Chicago, author and man extraordinaire. Uh, one of the things that, that Chef Trotter is, and it's really hard to explain this, A great restaurant owner has to be a lot of things, and a, and a great chef owner has to be even more things. I mean, he's an owner businessman, he's a chef, artistic director, he's a marketeer, and he's mare d. Service director, very, very rarely in the world do you see somebody who is extraordinary at all those things. And I wanna introduce our guest, chef Charlie Trotter, who is indeed extraordinary at all those things. Welcome to the show, chef Trotter.

Charlie: 10:18

Thank you very much. I'm, I'm delighted to be with you today.

Francis: 10:20

It's nice to have you. We were talking, uh, just before you came on about your book Lessons in Excellence, which, uh, mark and I run a, a small restaurant here in, in Jersey. Well, it's not so small anymore. We run a medium sized restaurant in here in Jersey for the last 13 years, but. When I read your book Lessons and Excellence, it was literally in one sitting. I started in the afternoon and I just went plowed straight on through. what prompted you to write these books on more than just cooking? I mean, you have books on a number of different issues.

Charlie: 10:47

Well, I, over the years, historically, we have, um, used a lot of outside analogies to what we do in order to help, uh, educate the staff. And so when we've. Conducted staff meetings and, and instructional seminars. It's not just relating specific ideas regarding life in a restaurant or, or service technique or culinary ideology. It's, it's bringing a lot of outside influences in and it's relating the restaurant business to other types of properly run businesses. And so we felt that there were enough things that were in place here that we could set them out as examples and have people take a look and, uh, and draw from that and have perhaps people apply some of these ideas. To their own businesses, regardless if they were restaurants or not.