The Restaurant Guys
Mark Pascal and Francis Schott are The Restaurant Guys! The two have been best friends and restaurateurs for over 30 years. They started The Restaurant Guys Radio Show and Podcast in 2005 and have hosted some of the most interesting and important people in the food and beverage world. After a 10 year hiatus they have returned! Each week they post a brand new episode and a Vintage Selection from the archives. Join them for great conversations about food, wine and the finer things in life.
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The Restaurant Guys
Dylan Trotter and the Legacy of Charlie Trotter's in Chicago
The Banter
The Guys discuss whether a cheeseburger is a composed dish. What do you think?
The Conversation
The Restaurant Guys are joined by Dylan Trotter. Dylan shares anecdotes from his unique childhood, his journey into the culinary world, and the challenges and excitement of keeping his father’s legacy alive through pop-ups and potential new ventures.
The Inside Track
The Guys are grateful that Charlie Trotter was so supportive of the early iteration of The Restaurant Guys. They enjoyed sharing their memories of Charlie and talking about Dylan’s rebellious phase.
Mark: I ran to the restaurant business because that's what rebels did when we were kids. They ran to the restaurant business because they were rebelling against everything else. Your rebellious stage, you were trying to run away from the restaurant business, but couldn't make it happen.
Dylan: No, couldn't make it out…but that was really what I needed and I had a great time in the kitchen.
Dylan Trotter on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2025
Bio
Dylan Trotter is the son of the late chef and restaurateur Charlie Trotter. As a teen he worked in his father’s business at Trotter’s To Go in Chicago and later El Bulli in Spain.
After Charlie Trotter’s restaurant closed in 2012 and his passing in 2013, Dylan gradually stepped into preserving and honoring his father’s legacy. Dylan led efforts to revive Charlie Trotter’s namesake restaurant in Chicago. In 2025 he created pop-up events and restored much of the original space—while preparing for a full reopening.
Info
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Hello everybody and welcome. You are listening to the Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Shot. Together we own Stage Left and Catherine Lombardi restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life. Hello, mark. Hey Francis. How are you? I'm great. We have coming on the show, Dylan Trotter, son of Charlie Trotter, who is as actually resurrecting Charlie Trotters in Chicago and all sorts cool stuff. So stick around for our guests, but first we will have some. Chatter among Mark and Francis. So what are the things about going to a restaurant like Trotters? And we're gonna talk more about this in a couple minutes mm-hmm. But about going to, you would go and you would have a tasting menu and you'd be put in the chef's hands. Yes. And I loved eating that way. I think it was a great part of the culinary movement Yep. and some chefs. you know, when you create something, you've created a masterpiece, right? Yeah. Well, today I was watching Instagram before we were doing the show Okay. And I watched, and I'm using air quotes, a chef come on. And he came on and he started out the conversation with, do you have any allergies? And the person goes. No, I don't have it. I'm, I'm not allergic. He said, then no substitutions. And I thought, okay, what's, what's happening here? What kind of creation has he made? And he was serving a cheeseburger. And he said, We've worked very hard on this and it's a composed dish. It's a compose. What? Okay. And we've come up with a composed dish and you are going to eat it. The way we composed it, I guess this guy isn't the owner? No, he is the owner. He's the owner chef of this, of, of this restaurant and, and I watched that and I thought. You, Dick. I, that's all I could think of as I watch this guy. Come on. And, and'cause it's a cheeseburger. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. You arrogant jerk. It's a cheeseburger. Okay. Most humans in the United States have been deciding what their perfect cheeseburger is since the time they were three years old. Okay? And it, for some people it's well done. For some people it's got cheese. For some people it's got ketchup. For some people, it's got mustard. For some people, it's got mayonnaise. Shut up. All right. Shut up with your composed dish. All I, I agree with you that it's absurd for him to say that that's a composed dish, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a moment. Okay? That, that I'm gonna tell you to shut up, be nothing new about that. But there rarely is there daylight between our opinions, I think that is generally true, and I don't want to own the place like that, but there are some places that are like. This is how we make the cheeseburger. If you like it, you can have this cheeseburger. You don't like it, go someplace else and get a cheeseburger. They're like, this is how we make the drink. This is what we do. We don't have decaf. Sorry. You can't have decaf. And you know what? I don't know. There's a place in the world for that. There's a place in the world for like this. I'm, I do this. This is what I do. If you like it, take it If you like, go someplace else. So what you're saying is there is a place in a room. For total dicks? No, I, I, I think that, I think that some, it's a cheeseburger, bro. It's a cheeseburger. And if you come in and you say, I'd like my cheeseburger with no cheese, I'm gonna say, sure, yes, me too. A cheeseburger. Of course I am. Okay. And if I go anywhere and anywhere, anywhere, and I say, can I have a cheeseburger with no cheese? And they say, no. I guess what I'm gonna think, can I tell you something? Go ahead. You can't have a cheeseburger with no cheese. Yes, I can. It's not a cheeseburger anymore. Yes, I can. I can have a cheese list cheeseburger. It's just a hamburger. It's just a hamburger. That's all. No, I think there is a cer there for certain places like the Belmont Tavern. Belmont Tavern in, as in Bloomfield. Bloomfield. Right. And like, they don't, they don't have, I, they don't think they don't have the cat. I'm not saying, can I have the chicken Savoy with no chicken? You know? No, you're not saying anything in the Belmont Tavern. They serve what they serve and that's what you get. I. I'm saying that it's a cheeseburger and there's, And listen, I don't like it when people come in and they dismantle our dishes. Okay. that's not what I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. okay. I'm not talking about the crawfish and crab salad, but I, I want you to do it without the orange vinaigrette. that's not what I'm talking about. I. People have spent their entire lives deciding how they like their cheeseburgers. Mm-hmm. So for you to tell me it's a composed dish, I I agree. That's absurd. And it only has to be this way. You, you're, you're, you're over the top. You think too much of yourself. I agree. I agree that that's absurd. But, but at the same time, token, the greasy spoon who's like, like the Belmont Tavern. You want decaf? No, you can't have decaf. I'm okay with it. But what I'm lamenting at the same time, and this is counter counterintuitive, right, based on what I just said, is the tasting menu of, here's the thing. Yeah. We spent hours and hours and days and weeks working on making it just so in this perfect way where it's gonna be a perfect mouthful and you're gonna have 24 perfect mouthfuls during the next three and a half hours, and you're gonna put yourself in our hands. That's a different thing and I miss that. Mm-hmm. I miss mm-hmm. Restaurants like Charlie Trotters, which was at one time, number one, restaurant in the country, in America for sure. Okay. And regarded that way everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think Trotter passed the torch to Keller. Mm-hmm. And that was, that was the, the evolution of the best American restaurant was universally recognized. And I, and that. Restaurant, and I'm so excited to talk to Dylan Trotter later in the show and to talk about how important restaurants like that were in the lexicon of. Yeah. And what was happening in the movements? I mean, it realized that Trotters had the first vegetarian or, or first vegetable tasting menu, which later became a vegetarian menu in, in the country. And people like Roxanne Klein, who then opened her vegan raw food restaurant in Larksburg, California, came out of Trotter's Kitchen. Yeah, yeah. And so many people came from there and got their base knowledge of food and cuisine and. this tremendous learning place and brutally hard, right? Yeah. Brutally hard place to work. and you watch the show The Bear and you know that one of the characters there is based after Charlie Trotter. Mm-hmm. You know, and it's the character that both made the main character great. And made him crazy. Yeah. At the same time. You know, I recall, um, that one of the things that Tr Trotter also got, I mean, he was a chef, but he was also like the, there hadn't been restaurants like, I think probably before Trotter, you would look to Joe Baum, who ran the Palace of the Seven Caesars and, and all those great restaurants in New York that were themed restaurants. But it wasn't like that French Michelin stard level of, of attention to detail. Mm-hmm. And not just in, in a new cuisine, but I remember that. Now whether this is true or not, I don't really know, but the legend was that if there were, there was this lint on the floor or one of the things chart I used to hate. When you had that, uh, little, little bit that artificial sweetener mm-hmm. That there would be like a little bit of it on the, on the floor, the corner that was torn out, that you would see that on the carpet. That he didn't want people walking through and wanting us waiters who were touching your food to be seen reaching down to the floor in the middle of the dining room. So he put double sided tape on the bottom of their shoes and didn't have them walk over to pick it up. Yeah. He talked about it. He talked about that with us on our show. Yeah. I think it's, I. I still, I'm not sure it actually happened, although he said it, it happened, but it, but either way, it's the idea of making it. invisible, making all the mechanics invisible, making sure that you had a totally curated experience, which that was great. I, I loved it. And you know, I'm not talking about the cheeseburger when I talk about, when I talk about this kind of menu. Yes. But for Charlie Trotter, he, it was, and, and you and I feel this way and have talked about a little bit on the show. It was personal. Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. It was personal. It was him. You were getting a piece of him every night in his dining room with his food. I'm so excited that that Dylan's gonna give us all a little piece of, of Charlie back again. And you should stick with us because Dylan's gonna do that in just a moment. You can find out more about us@restaurantguyspodcast.com.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Hey there everybody. Welcome back. You know, few restaurants have left as deep a mark on American Dining as Charlie Trotters in Chicago, and today we are talking with Dylan Trotter, Charlie's son. Charlie was a great friend of the restaurant guys appearing on our show a couple times and really helping us to get established as a nationally important food podcast in the beginning. So we're grateful to Dylan and his family. Dylan has a distinguished career of his own, having worked front and back of the house at restaurants like Lbu Lee, GT Fish Oyster, and GT Prime. Now he's taking on the extraordinary task of renovating and reopening the very space where his father's restaurants once stood, financing the restoration himself, and bringing in many of Charlie's closest friends and colleagues for pop-up dinners and breathing new life into the landmark of American cuisine. He's also digitizing his father's cookbooks and cooking shows, and ensuring Charlie's voice and vision continue to inspire the next generation. And we couldn't be happier that he's our guest today on the restaurant. Guys, Dylan Trotter. Welcome to the show.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Thank you guys so much for having me. it's an honor to get to speak with you.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:No, the honor's, all ours and, you know, your dad was super important to us. Yeah, so realizing the, in the beginning, Francis and I would have guests, you know, every show, just kind of like we do now, but your dad was the first really famous chef we had that we didn't already know who was willing to come on our show. And he really broke the ice for a lot of people because in those days, and frankly, it still happens now. Everybody wants to know who was on your show, who else was on, who else was on before they want to come on. So before Danny Meyer came on, he wanted to know who was on Before, you know, Thomas Keller was on. He wanted to know who was on, and the answer was always, well, Charlie Trotter was on. And then everybody would be like, okay, Charlie was on, I'll be on your show. Yeah. Yeah. He was really, and that's, and was such a big start for us, a very important, meaningful guy for us.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Well, um, you know, now, I can say that I was on your podcast and therefore I can get onto other podcasts.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:I think you're, you're we're a legacy. it was really tremendous. I just wanna say, and then, and then your dad did one other thing is that, he evidently liked our podcast and he told a lot of people we were great, which is terrific, and especially in 20 years ago, to have Charlie Trotter saying, you're great. That will do good things for your reputation. the show was really taking off and becoming nationally important, but our staff was like, it's like when your parents do something cool, you're like, you don't believe that it's that cool? And I think you might know what we're talking about. and we had our staff went out, a couple of our members of our staff went out to Chicago and were having dinner at Trotters. And they knew they were in the restaurant business and they said, where you're from? They said, we're from New Jersey. And they said, oh, do you know the restaurant guys? Like we work for the restaurant guys. And your dad had played our episode for his staff. And so the last people to consider the restaurant guys an important show were our own staff. And it was due to you and your dad as well. Finally one who convinced them that it finally won them over.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:unbelievable. I mean, um, and, and this is going back. 2005
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:2005. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wild 2005 is when we started the show. So,
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:2020 years.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:so what was it like growing up? Charlie Trotter's son, man, he's the most important chef in America at the time. what was that like?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Um, it was, it was normal for me. I, I knew no other life, uh, so I, I thought everything I was experiencing was just run of the mill, but, uh. it couldn't be further from the truth. It was an extraordinary, childhood and you know, and I didn't, I didn't appreciate it until later. I always thought that I, you know, oh, maybe I don't know too, too much about this or about that, but just being around my dad, I was absorbing this, um, knowledge and information and, and just this cool charisma. I mean, he was a one in, I always say, a one in 10 million kind of person, because. don't make it like that
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:You could probably use a bigger number than that. Yeah, I think it would be fair. So that's, you know, I, I read a lot of your, your story and for me it was very parallel.'cause my dad was, an innovator, an entrepreneur, and somebody who really, really liked really good food and. I was a 10-year-old kid who wasn't sure cheese belonged on a hamburger, you know, uh, it was, it took me a long time to kind of grow into all the cool foods that my father was showing me. I saw some of that. And you, you're sitting next to some of the, the world's famous chefs and your dad's like, you gotta eat it. Right. so tell us about.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Tetsuya, Wata, I mean, uh, you know, going to Sydney, Australia at, 13 years old to eat, uh, at Tetsuya, and my dad's like. You better eat everything on this plate. The chef is sitting next to you for dinner in his own restaurant. And, um, you know, it just, whoa, like, uh, it was, it was a really special thing. And getting to try, I was a picky eater basically until that trip. It was the trip to Australia that up my palate.'cause I, I always wanted plain Turkey sandwiches with the crust cutoff. And then, uh, my, my dad's like, this is the trip. Like, you know. Crash course, you must eat everything. And, uh, ever since then, it's like, you know, organ meats, you know, insects, whatever it is, I throw it my way and try everything at least once. Guinea pig,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Yep.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:alpaca, whatever it might be. I.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:That was my dad's rule too. You had to try everything. You had to try everything. Unfortunately, once it was on your plate, you had to eat everything that was on your plate. Mm. So if you took it, it was on your plate. There was no wasting anything.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:And yeah, my dad certainly, did that for a lot of people. He exposed a lot of people, to cuisine. I mean, three times a week in, in this very room, I'm sitting in the studio kitchen, which is where, it's, it's a house. it's still feels very homey in here. the kitchen's in front of me, you can't see it, but it's kind of like a Martha Stewart. In-home kitchen for like filming his PBS series. the kitchen sessions with Charlie Trotter, three seasons, behind me, you know, room for one big dining room table that could seat 20. And so three times a week he would have, 20, Chicago public school students in here to have the same meal that the paying guests were having next door. just to expose them not just to the cuisine, but the service, and to let them ask questions. to the cooks who would present the food to the wait staff and the sommelier, you know, these kids would be trying things just like me when I was a kid that, I'll try one little bite of, liver, this, this, lamb's tongue or something. But, uh. You know, asking a lot of questions, and it was a learning experience for everybody and for the staff who were put on the spot that they have to do, public speaking, even if it's to high school students, you still get nervous. Um, you, you gotta talk to a room full of people and you gotta know, how to, present yourself and, and articulate, what you do to pursue excellence on a daily basis.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:You know, and to anyone who that seems maybe a little trivial, like, oh, you know, is that really what high school students need? Yeah. I think for a lot of students who. Maybe it wasn't in their cultural background or they didn't have the money to wind up being in a place like Charlie Trotters. If you as a teenager can be comfortable in a dining room, and we always say this about the restaurant, I mean, I never walked into a fine dining restaurant until I was applying for a job. Um, and by I learned about how to be in this environment and how to exist in this environment and then command this environment. There's a lot business deals happen in restaurants. The way that things happen in restaurants is related to business and culture and, and if, if young people are taught to navigate food and this culture in western restaurants, that's a, that's a big skill. And it was great that your dad did that. love that. I love that, so important to indoctrinate the, the next generation and, and give people that, you know, you talk about giving people a leg up, right? and we talk about privilege and being underprivileged. One of the ways that people are under privileged is they don't get to experience how. This works. And a lot of stuff happens in restaurants, and I think that's what Francis was alluding to. Yeah. The business deal, the interview, all those things happen in restaurants and if you're comfortable in that setting, that gives you a leg up in those deals in.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Certainly. And um, and, and it was something that. Even being around it, you don't realize that it might be affecting you until years later. It's like, you see, um, other people and, who might not be in the restaurant industry and, you realize I actually know more the average person because I was around it.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Yep.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:I didn't, I kind of doubted myself and now I, I try not to, because. it's a special thing to, to be growing up in this world and,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:you were in a very special place and there's a lot that comes with that, and some of it is responsibility, right, that you have now, but some of that was that the, the. Cool stuff that you were exposed to early, at an early age. So when you were a kid, what was it like you came after school to the restaurant and like how were you immersed in the restaurant? How did that work with you growing up?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:YY I mean, I, yeah. After school I would come to the restaurant and, you know, it's, less than a 10 minute drive. It's like an eight minute drive from my school to the restaurant. It's cl it was closer than our house. So I would come here you know, my dad would pick me up, he'd swing out of a meeting, pick me up. Uh, he drove my grandfather's 1990 Burgundy Jaguar. And, uh, it was the one that had like the automatic seat belts that would go up. Um, but it was, it was pretty old. And like even, you know, by 2000, the floor under the passenger seat had like rusted out so you could move the floor mat and see the road But, anyway, so I would, uh, come here up in the office upstairs. Um, you know, he had the chess board set up in the office. We'd always play chess. Uh, managers would come in, you know, having him double check menus and so, you know, you have to call this person or, you know, there's a meeting with, with, uh, you know, a new deal over here or, you know, he'd have to run out, come back, staff meal. I'd get to come downstairs and have staff meal with everybody. Um.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:tremendous. A lot of good stuff happens at staff meal every day.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Definitely. And you see how many people who were like my brothers and sisters'cause my dad was like a father figure to them. So, you know, 30 cooks and 30 front of the house, uh, more. I mean it was, um, it was an army of people over here.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:The other thing, and this has really changed. Okay, so one of the things that that used to happen at Family Meal, that doesn't happen the same way at Family Meal anymore, that we still talk about the, the restaurant, and. Who's coming in and what's gonna happen that day. But there was a time, so before you start having your meeting, when everybody's eating, there was a time where the staff would be talking to each other. And so much of that time now is spent with them looking up, catching up on their phone, catching up on whatever they missed while, while we were doing setup. Yeah. whatever email or text that they're trying to catch up on. And they don't use that time to talk to each other anymore. And it's, it's really, you can see how it's affecting their relationships with each other. Mm-hmm. And negatively.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:it's unfortunate and it's like, even, even now, I'm like noticing there, I'm gonna put that there, noticing that my phone is on the counter and it's like a subconscious, you're always glancing at it. I, I just had to go and hide it
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Yeah.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:um. It's, it's terrible. And you're at dinner even even at dinner with friends and, and people are looking at their phone. But I find if you have, I had dinner last night with a former trotter manager and, with one of my millennial friends and my girlfriend. And because he, he was so engaged and so excited to be in town and, and part of our, uh, recent dinner, telling us stories, regaling us with these incredible stories that we were so. up in it. There was no way we could look at
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Mm-hmm. Yeah.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:it was a wonderful thing. So it helps to have someone from, from your generation who, isn't so conditioned.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:I think he just called you old friends. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I think that's, I think that that's what he did. Right. But like a, like a,
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:just like 10 years older than me.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:like a vintage wine mark. Like a vintage wine. So, so how do, now you come of age and you decide to enter the restaurant business, was there ever an idea that you wouldn't enter the restaurant business yourself? Or was it a direct line?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Yeah, I mean, there was a lot of ideas because my dad said, whatever your heart tells you. Do what you love. And, I, I didn't exactly find my calling, You know, kind of have some rough teenage years and rebellious phase and, um, I love drawing and sketching in my notebook and, I played tennis and piano and, um, I was on the chess club, but it, um, you know, it just, I wasn't really finding my calling. And then. know, I was, I was dealing with a lot of family issues and, My dad getting sick, and everything passing away when I was 22. So I, and he knew what he wanted to do when he was in his early twenties. He. was about 21 when it, I think it clicked for him that he loved cooking just for his college roommates. Um, and that was where, where the passion came from. But for me, I found over the last 10 years that my passion has really come from, you know, I don't wanna say forced, but it was my dad was trying to get me to just do something. So as a, you know, 14, 15 years old, uh, I was working at Trotters to go his to go store. Um, I felt it was too much pressure to officially get on the payroll at Charlie Trotters. It was a little intense over here, and I would put these expectations. I'm his son, I should know everything.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:My kids felt exactly the same way and still feel the same way when, when they're here. Mm-hmm.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:to go was like a little more easy going. You just, kind of. You're in the back. There's not guests like, yelling at you. You're just like preparing these sandwiches and packaging them and a little more easy and you can kind of get the ropes of here's how you make more basic things, salad sandwiches, soups, and so that was nice. getting thrown into L Bully at 17 was a bit of hardcore exposure therapy.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:did that happen?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:well it was one of those things where my dad just said, You know, right as the school year ended when I was 17, we're we're leaving, uh, tomorrow we're, we're going to Europe, so pack your bag. I'm like, not really an explanation. then, um, we show up in Spain, Barcelona, drive up to Roses, had dinner at Bule, 36 courses. stuff. And, This is, yeah, 2008. then he, he, you know, leaves me at the hotel and says, all right, you're gonna be living at this hotel for the next three months. And I'm like, what? And it's like, yes, you're going to work tomorrow, where we just had dinner. So, uh, that was crazy. I mean, I wasn't, I, I, I couldn't even appreciate the food back then. I was just sort of absorbing. Socially being with these 50 cooks, only 10 of them spoke English, going to the disco tech after work every night. I was, I was 17 and this one Australian guy gave me his, expired driver's license. that said I was over 18 so I could get into disco tech,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:That's awesome.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:getting exposed to Europe was, was crazy. But,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:So when you're Charlie Trotter's kid, what happens is your choice is to work at BU Lee or run away. Yeah. Those, that's, that's what you got. You got those two choices. Mm-hmm.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:know, then, um, I, you know, I mean, I, and I wasn't back in the industry after that until right after he passed away, like, within four or five months when I was, like really depressed, sulking at the bar at GT Fish and Oyster, that's a GI chef, Giuseppe Tin Tori's restaurant who. Was a sous chef and chef to cuisine at Trotters. Um, he worked here for seven years and, you know, he came up to me and I was sitting there and he is like, you know, Dylan, what are you doing? he could tell that I needed like, some help and was like, you come work in the kitchen tomorrow. Like, okay, yes chef. And so that got me back and really, you know, before it was kind of like I. I was just Charlie Schroder's son. And I, you know, he's just a kid and we don't need to ride him too hard this time, you know, I was an adult. I was just another hook on the line, and I had to contribute to the team. If there was, you know, if anything was wrong at my station, that was my fault and I was letting the team down. They would have to come and fix the problem. And step away from their station. So it was like a real, you have to pick it up because there's people depending on you. and so that was really what, what I needed at the time, uh, to feel like I was part of something.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:You said you had a rebellious stage and remember very well my rebellious stage. I ran to the restaurant business because that's what rebels, that's what Rebels did when we were kids. They ran to the restaurant business because you know, you were rebelling against everything else. Your rebellious stage, you were trying to run away from the restaurant business, but couldn't, couldn't make it happen.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:No, couldn't make it out. but yes, it was, you know, going back to, uh, structured life was back at the
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Mm-hmm.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:So, that was really what I needed and I had a great time in the kitchen. you know, finally once it clicks for you, there's like emotional, um, breaking points and then you get through that and you're a much better person for it, and then you can work. Fast and with diligence and that was great. And then after, like a year of, in the kitchen, uh, my second year there, I switched to the front of the house and was running food. And I felt that, well, I've been hands on with the food. I know the dishes so well that I can explain this to the guests in detail if they wanted, So that was fantastic. And I sort of realized that I had a more of a natural ability for the front of the house. it just came a little more easy to me talking to people and occasionally it would be like, oh, I, we ate at your dad's restaurant. I'm like, oh, incredible. So, it was fun to hear other people's stories about Trotters and, went to Los Angeles for a year, worked at a huge steakhouse out there, BOA Steakhouse. Um, like over 400 seats
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Wow.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:was all about, take out the stakes as fast as you can, get them to the table as fast as you can. Um, it was high volume and it was, you know, then tableside Caesar salad. So it was fun to do a little tableside presentation for the guests. Um, but while you also had to like do it quickly, try to be charming, balance all these things, you don't wanna feel like. You're rushing through them, but
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:But your other tables might be giving you the stink eye while you're, while you're making somebody else's Caesar salad across the room.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:right. And then one person says, okay, I want mine with no anchovies. And someone else says, I want mine with no mustard. And you know you're, boy, I gotta make five salads right here.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:if you don't mind if, I hope this isn't too personal, but when your dad got sick and then,
Francis:andpassed away.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:That must have been a real rift in your life and, the restaurant that he founded and your family. Can you tell us about that experience?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Um, I mean, yeah, just, you know, basically, yeah, it was devastating. I mean, um, even though we knew he had some serious medical issues, um, in the few years leading up to it, nobody saw it coming. especially not me. I mean, I was, maybe I was trying to run away from it. Um,'cause it's hard to accept that, you know, the person that you looked up to your whole life as the, you know, the one who supported you through everything. who was like Superman could ever get sick or falter or, I think I was bearing my head in the sand. And then, you know, the reality, it just hit, on one day. So, uh, it was, it was not good. it, it sort of tore everything apart and, uh, you know, family relationships fell apart. You know, the restaurant was gone and you, you find out who your real friends are real quick because the people who were there for the fame and everything like that, I mean, and that was kind of happening the restaurant closed anyway, but it was really serious after he was gone. know, there's a lot of people who love to be near the limelight and everything like that. And once he was gone, they, they were gone. And, um.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Yep.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:But the people who stuck around, that's who you knew, who were like your, the real family. And not necessarily related by blood, all the, guys who worked on the restaurant building all these years, it was open. They're basically, we, liked to go by their first name and their trade. It was John the painter, al the electrician. Frank, the plumber and these guys, were always here. So John, the painter though, especially, I was especially close to him. and my dad really loved him because he would, paint all the walls and everything in, in, in the restaurant at the house, in the front of the restaurant, out on the exterior. And my dad would say, look at what John does. He meticulously draws the line with the brush. He doesn't even need painter's tape. Just right where the molding meets the floor. so I would actually work jobs with John the painter as his assistant. so we, we got close and he was always there for me after my dad passed. there's, there's a handful of people like that I can count on one hand who were there for me,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:that's,
Mark:A tough
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:lesson as a young man to, to find out that some of those people who were surrounded. You were not surrounding you for the best reasons, you know, for the right reasons. It's, it's, it's a very difficult thing to go through
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:And well, it's, and it's not necessarily that, everyone who was no longer around had bad intentions
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Sure.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:there for
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Absolutely.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:There's a lot of folks who they were struggling on their own paths in life and, or maybe they were too young to give me a hand. I now, I'm trying to get to be more and more in a position to help other people, but I'm still trying to help myself first. So I get that there's people out there that I should be trying to help. But I need to get my own business off the ground first
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:have a chance. I, I suspect you'll have a chance to help those people if you want to. Well, actually, if you stick with us, we're gonna come back on the other side. We're gonna talk with Dylan about what he's doing. They're actually doing dinners in the old Charlie Trotter space and bringing it back to life in a lot of different ways. It's super exciting and super fun. And if you come back in the other side, you can learn all about it and you can always find out more about us@restaurantguyspodcast.com. Hey everybody. Welcome back to us talking with Dylan Trotter Dylan. So you are resurrecting the very space that housed Charlie Trotter's two addresses in Chicago that sat dormant for a long time. How is it possible they sat dormant for so long and didn't get converted to another use? Uh, and and what have you had to do to bring them back and what's the state of it right now? When can we come to dinner?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Well, uh, you could come to dinner September 28th. But we're doing these popups, sometimes once a month, sometimes twice a month. we're not open full-time yet. Um, how did it come to be, that nothing happened here? I couldn't say for sure. I was not really calling the shots, back in the day. you know, I, it was very difficult once something shuts down. You've got, that were built 145 years ago, converted into restaurants. you know, not easy to bring back online. Um, o only in 2020 did I, uh, get to the decision making power to, do whatever I thought necessary with the buildings. And so the first thing I did was I moved in. Um, I, up in the, the, the former office, that's where I live now, and, just converted it into a little, bachelor pad. And, uh, that's great because I, I needed to be on site 24 7
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:just about to say the, the first thing you learn when you as a young restaur is you're gonna be there a lot. Yeah. So if you're already living there, that's a, that's a good jumpstart.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:it's the best commute in the world.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Yeah. Yeah. And the worst.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:but then the building needed a lot of work, uh, starting from the exterior. I mean, uh, tough pointing. The, the masonry work on the, on the sides of the building that support this, the whole structure, the roofing, you know, these vines in the backyard had overtaken everything. They'd overtook the garage, the, the siding of the building, the wood siding would rotted out. Then the vines had gone from up the backyard up over the building, over the roof, onto the other side, onto the neighbor's property. the, the whole thing, it took a long time. like I said, roofing brickwork, um, even like all, all the painting on, on the, on the front, the tr the trellis where the vines grow, you know, all the rust on the railings for the wheelchair ramp, everything. You know, it's the things you don't think about. They all needed to be brought back to life and we're still working on it to this day. Um,'cause then after the exterior was done. was like the interior. And we also, you know, I, I didn't have any air conditioning when I first moved in upstairs. It was so hot, get the new AC unit, H-H-V-A-C, uh, furnace, plumbing, hot water tanks,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Well, and you had to
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:this,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:kitchen, right, and bring the kitchen back as well.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:yes. Yeah. So, and, and that, and the, the kitchen was really like the last. The last year, um, I spent on the kitchen, uh, the commercial kitchen.'cause there's also the studio kitchen. Um, so commercial kitchen, it, it's like these, the bone ranges from 1996. All the equipment in there is from when, when my dad renovated in 90, 96, 10 years after they built the first kitchen. And so all the refrigeration, all the ovens, is from 96. So to, it's all custom built, like into a, cement curb. So with the, the tile work going up the curb so that it's easier to clean. You could power wash the hotline on the floor and everything. And, uh, but you can't just, it's not like today's countertop refrigerators. You can't just wheel them out. When they break and wheel in a new one. We'd, we'd have to tear everything out and knock down the wall just to get the ovens out.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Mm-hmm. Yeah.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:the refrigerator's out. So I'm like, we need to repair these things. Um, so like new copper lines and new condenser units on the roof and, learning how bonnets work and the, the guts of it, the, igniter valves and the thermal couplings,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:those of you who don't know, the bone range was simply the oven stove, kitchen console to have, but they're all custom made and in place, and this is exactly the problem when they're that old and you're trying to repair them. It's all, it's all a custom job, but. It's also the most prestigious range you can set yourself in, in front of, but so can you tell us about some of the popups that you've been having, who've been partnering with, who's been coming in to do cool stuff at at your spot and what are you gonna call it?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:I mean, for these popups we're sticking with Charlie Trotters because it's, it, you know, the vibe in here is very much what it, what it used to be. And, it's sort of this classic, feeling ki like the James Beard House perhaps. our first, guest chef, To, to kick everything off right as the kitchen was ready to go. And just as the dining rooms kind of felt like they were almost there, was Chef Bra Aki of Alinea, Alinea.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Who was a, who was a student of your father for a long time? Mm-hmm.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:the number one guy in Chicago, after my dad closed. so it was super cool to have him in here. He was already doing a trotter tribute menu at his restaurant next,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Yep.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:every four months changes their menu. And, that was going really well. We had worked together on that for four months and I said, Hey, what you wanna come do it here? And it was like a last minute thing. We got the permit to do, do the popup a day before the first dinner. We had already sold tickets. We're like, where's the permit? Come on. And,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:We need deadlines. We're restaurant people. We need deadlines. That's just the way it is.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:so that we did it for two weeks and it went so well. We said let's do another two weeks. So
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Nice.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:full month
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:That's terrific.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:that was amazing. Kicked it right off. And then, since then, in March, John Shields from, uh, three Michelin Smith, uh, and the loyalist is his, uh, more casual gastro pub in the basement there. he's another Trotter alumni, um, worked here with his wife Karen. I think they met in the kitchen here. Um, so there's a lot of, a lot of couples who met in the kitchen or in the front of the house at Trotters,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:what's planned for the rest of the year and into to 2026. How many of these, how many weeks a year do you think you're gonna be open with popups? And when do you think if all goes well, you'll be able to actually open again full time?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:We're, yeah, we're doing one to two a month. I mean, yeah, we had John Shields, Justin Cogley, uh, of Aber, Jean, and uh, uh, Carmel by the Sea. Um, Nancy Silverton has come and cooked. Um, I mean, there's many more I can't even name, but we're,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:That's a pretty good lineup so far. Yeah, you're doing.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:uh, but, uh, you know, we, we're doing like one to two a month and, uh. Uh, you know, we're gonna do a few more, um, you know, up until the end of the year. But I think the idea is to try to get something going full-time here. Five, be open five to six days a week. And, you know, the restaurant landscape has changed so much since my dad's time.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:It's.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:for the, of course, for these special events, people would love to do these, 7, 8, 9 course dinners. But I think for a permanent. Fixture may be just in the studio kitchen. We do a, a real Charlie Trotter's dinner for like 16 people, but next door in the main building. I believe it needs to be a more casual concept
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Yeah.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:that, that the price point's a little easier. And sometimes it's not even just the price, but even people's time. People kind of these days don't really wanna do a three hour experience. a lot of them, them wanna be in and out in, maybe an hour, maybe an hour and a half.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:For me, what I see is a, it's a control thing. People are, are so much less likely, and we talked about this with, with one of the, on one of the live shows, people are so much less likely to just put themselves in your hands. Than they used to be. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's when, when we look back over the 33 years we've been doing this, we had a, in the early days we had an eight course tasting menu, or five course tasting menu, or three course tasting menu, and then our, a la carte menu, and half of our guests were doing one of the tasting menus or more. Um, now if we, if we put out a tasting menu, it's 10%. I mean, it's, it's, and we don't do it that much because, so, so many people want to control what they do, their time. how many courses they're gonna have, exactly what they're gonna eat. My friend wants to eat this. I don't eat this. it's not the same as, as it used to be, where, let me put myself in your
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:And I, I appreciate that wisdom and I, I could learn a thing or two from you guys. I'd, I'd love to come out there and, and dine and, and, and, and hear what advice you might have for me because, it's a, it's a, it's a rough landscape. but I, I am, I'm confident in the, in the brand of Charlie Trotters. And even if we do, you know, my dad had other spinoff sort of things. He had Bar Charlie in Las Vegas. Uh, which earned a Michelin star in its first year. And that was like an Oma Casa sushi restaurant. He had a restaurant c uh, like the letter C in Mexico at the one and only Palm Mia hotel. Um, so more o ocean, a la carte, um, you know, and Trotters to go where I worked. So take out, you know, grain salads, uh, pasta, cold pasta salads, rotisserie chicken. Um, there's a million different ways to go, so maybe putting my own spin on it. Making something more casual, but you know, a tip of the hat to the legacy, uh, while still giving maybe for, for a select number of guests, the, the real original experience. You have a standing invitation.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:to come out dinner with us anytime. You're out on the, do you ever make it out to the East coast?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:oh yeah. I, I, I love it out there. Boston, New York,
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Great. Well, we're, we're not far from New York City. You I'd love to sit down with you in our restaurant and raise a glass to your dad. Uh, and also we wanna come see you. So how will our listeners find out about, what's going on? with your place and with the popups that might be coming up, and how do they stay
Francis:apprised of what's going on. and
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:when you're gonna get open?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Well, um, you know, the, the easiest way is to follow me on my Instagram at Dil Trott, so it's D-Y-L-T-R-O-T, dil Trott. But, uh, that's where I announced our upcoming popups and have a link on there. Um, they, they do get sold out like the day of, which I'm super blessed that that happens. Um, I'll actually, I'll send an email to our newsletter before I post on there. So that's who gets the first chance to get tickets
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:If you're driving in your car right now and you can't write this down, you can always go to our show notes. We're gonna put all this information on this show so you can follow, uh, what's going on in Chicago at the same time.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:and sign up for our newsletter. It's charlie trotters.com.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:So I heard a rumor that you are putting together your father's old PBS show and somehow gonna re-release that wonderful, wonderful three year, show. He did spill the beans a little bit there. What's going on?
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Well, you know, we're still working out the details, but, uh, Melanie Kosaka, who was the producer of the Kitchen Sessions, um, she lives in Honolulu, but we filmed some footage for a pilot and, uh, interviewed Chef Keller, um, chef ATTs and a, and a handful of others. just to put a pilot together. We're pitching that around. We're gonna re-release the original, uh, series, but we're also gonna do a new series where I would go and interview, second and third generation, kids, but now adults like myself who are in the restaurant industry or restaurant adjacent.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:that's great. I love it.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:to hear, you know, how do you preserve your family's legacy, but also put your own fingerprint on
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:That's amazing. Well, you have, I mean, you have a unique story, but at the same time, I'm sure that it, it is a relatable story for a lot of people whose parents have been doing this for a long time. Right.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Definitely, I mean, it's, they, our parents influence us more than anybody.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:Dude. Well, Dylan, it's been amazing talking to you and, we're happy to spread the word about the cool stuff you're doing out there. And don't be surprised if we turn up in Chicago at hopefully one of the popups before you get open Completely.
dylan-trotter_2_08-12-2025_130729:Okay. I'll email you guys first before the tickets sell
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_140748:I love it. I love it. I love it. Terrific. Thank you Dylan. We'll be back in just a moment. Don't go away. You can always find out more about us@restaurantguyspodcast.com.
the-restaurant-guys_2_08-12-2025_145149:Hey there. Welcome back. very cool. Absolutely. Very cool. I, I love it. It's a ton of pressure though, that kid's under a lot of kid, kid. That young. Yeah, that man is under a lot of pressure. He is. Kids today. Big, big shoes to fill. Yeah. Big shoes to fill. And it looks like he's ready. Yeah. To do it. Smart, smart, way to look at things. You know, it reminds me, it does make me feel like an old man, but I think we've done a few things, right? And we're gonna invite him to maybe do a collaboration dinner with us and our chefs. So don't be surprised if you see a trotter dinner here in New Brunswick, New Jersey. Absolutely. so we have, Dylan Trotter, Charlie, Dr. Trotter's son. We have Augustina Hobbes mm-hmm. Who we're doing, doing wine with Paul Hobbs' daughter. Yep. We have Grace Corson, Kathy Coon's daughter. Mm-hmm. who else have we got? We've got, George Henry's nephew. Yep. Michael. And, uh, it just means we're old fricking guys, but honestly, it warms my heart to see. We always talk about it's an old fashioned way of doing business. You know, it's the, here's the whole chain of production. You see it right here. when you see it pass on from generation to generation in a small business like that, I think it's very hard to do and I think it's a great thing to do. Well, this business is not for everybody, so not every. Business is gonna get passed to the next generation. Right, right, right. So I, love it when I see somebody kind of ready to grab that mat and well, and you know who else we saw with the Brennan's when we were down in New Orleans? Mm-hmm. It's another family business that goes from generation to generation. That's been like four generations. Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. So kudos to them. Kudos to him. Keep your ear to the ground. Because probably we're gonna do something with a Stage Left, trotter collaboration. that was a super fun time. Hope you've enjoyed the time with us and Dylan Trotter. I'm Mark Pascal. I'm Francis Shot. We are the restaurant guys. You can always find out more about us@restaurantguyspodcast.com.
