The Restaurant Guys
Mark Pascal and Francis Schott are The Restaurant Guys! The two have been best friends and restaurateurs for over 30 years. They started The Restaurant Guys Radio Show and Podcast in 2005 and have hosted some of the most interesting and important people in the food and beverage world. After a 10 year hiatus they have returned! Each week they post a brand new episode and a Vintage Selection from the archives. Join them for great conversations about food, wine and the finer things in life.
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The Restaurant Guys
Aldo Sohm Makes Wine Simple (Perfect Pairings)
The Banter
The Guys discuss the benefits of tip pooling and the mystery of cheek pinching.
The Conversation
The Restaurant Guys welcome back sommelier Aldo Sohm who’s mission is to pair wine with food, but also people with wine they will enjoy. The three discuss the joy of connecting all of the pieces of that puzzle. Aldo shares his insights on wine pairing, recounting the development of his new book, Wine Simple, Perfect Pairings.
The Inside Track
The Guys have known Aldo for years, first having him on the show in 2008, and have been long-time admirers. They all agree that stepping into their respective dining rooms is daily pleasure.
“ I'm very, very fortunate because I found in a very early stage of my life what I love to do the most, and that was my hobby back then, and it's now my job, but I've never worked a day,” Aldo Sohm on The Restaurant Guys Podcast 2025
Bio
Aldo Sohm is an award-winning sommelier, author, and wine director at the three-Michelin-starred Le Bernardin in New York City, where he has overseen one of the world’s most celebrated wine programs since 2007. Named Best Sommelier in Austria four times and Best Sommelier in the World in 2008 by the World Sommelier Association, He has been awarded M. Chapoutier prize for the Best Sommelier of Les Grandes Tables du Monde in 2019 and Wine Spectator’s Grand Award for Le Bernardin's restaurant wine program in 2021.
He is founder of the acclaimed Aldo Sohm Wine Bar, and a collaborator with Zalto glassware and Bäuerl Vineyards in Austria.
He has a TV series "An Austrian Wine Journey"
He is the co-author of Wine Simple and his newest Wine Simple Pairings to be released in November 2025
Info
Aldo’s book
Wine Simple, Perfect Pairings
By Aldo Sohm and Christine Muhlke
https://aldosohm.com/collections/book
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Hello everybody and welcome. You are listening to the Restaurant Guys. I'm Mark Pascal and I'm here with Francis Shot. Together we own stage left and Catherine Lombardi restaurants in New Brunswick, New Jersey. We're here to bring you the inside track on food, wine, and the finer things in life. Well, hello Mark. Hey buddy. How are you today? I'm doing great. How are you today? I'm doing terrific. We have Aldo, so is gonna be our guest on today's show. It's pretty exciting. One of the best, best sommelier in the world. Winner. Um, yeah, he's, he is a, a cool dude and great at his job, and I love people who are great at their job making a return appearance onto the restaurant guys. But let's have a little chat before Aldo joined us. Sure, sure, sure. You know, I, I was recently reminded of a ritual that used to happen when I would go to my grandmother's house on. Sunday mornings, is this gonna get into the occult or it's just a No, you weirdo. Okay, good. Oh, by the way, my fam, my family is Irish. We had like banshees and stuff. Well, you, you recognize that I'm fairly corpulent. I have noticed. Have, and I've always been that way, way Uhhuh and I have not nice round cheeks, round, I dunno about Nice. There's something in the Italian uhhuh culture, Uhhuh. That makes old ladies uhhuh want to pinch young people's round cheeks. Yeah, well, you have those in abundance. I did have them in abundance and more than anybody else in my family. And I remember being an eight, nine, 10-year-old, and I would go into the house, my grandmother's house, and I would dread the first two minutes of being in her house. Why? Because when I was greeted. By my grandmother and my Aunt Uhhuh, they would squeeze my cheeks so hard that tears would come out of my eyes, and then they would. I'm like, don't you see the tears coming out of my eyes? Why are you pinching my cheeks so hard? Didn't they realize you could beat them up? I couldn't at that time. Oh, I guess that's true. I couldn't at that time, And as much pain as I was in. Yeah. I still named a restaurant after her. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So the food must have been pretty good. Mm-hmm. Can I tell? Yeah. I, and I, and I wanna preface this by saying I have never been tempted to pinch your cheeks. That's good for you for, or get my face pinched in. But to pinch your cheeks for a moment. But I'll give your aunt and your grandmother this. If I were a cheek pincher, this would, how gotta say this would be a cheek that you pinched. You'd be on the list. You definitely would be on the list. All right. Well, so I, I wanna go on the rituals of my family. Go ahead. when I say there are rituals, and you will attest to this at one point'cause. We grew up, we both were raised Catholic and mm-hmm. I think I was raised a little more religious than you. A little more Catholic. Uh, a lot more Catholic. Yeah, A lot more. But, you know, well, you know what happened to me? Is my parents when they got divorced. Oh, well, they were excommunicated, so they weren't so big on the, on the big religion at that point. They're not technically excommunicated, but you didn't go to church enough to know the difference. So, so yeah, but they, I, I get, I get your point. I get your mother that. But don't worry, Mrs. Pascal, you are not excommunicated. Okay? We check with Rome, we'll double check it and everything will be fine. She asked for forgiveness. She's good. my great-grandmother used to see a banshee, and a banshee was like a, witch that you would see. And if she saw the banshee, it meant somebody was gonna die. Of course, in a family that large, somebody dies every week anyway, because you have 200 cousins and there's 52 weeks in a year. So, um. But the, I do remember there was a time that my sisters came and we were talking about the differences and we were very into the mystical side of Catholicism, you know? Mm-hmm. And, um, I'm sitting with my sisters and um, and we were talking and you're like, well, you don't believe it, like relics and holy water. And, And my sister all reached into their purses and pulled out like the holy water and the rally. It was shocking. And my favorite, my favorite thing.'cause you really didn't realize, you're like, people don't do that anymore. I'm like, no, they do. Mark my mother still carries holy water around. Mm. Well, and what I, but I just, in cases, what I'll always remember is she said. Religious. You're witches. You're all witches. Yes. There were spells and, uh, it's, it didn't go that far, but I see it's, it's, it's the opposite of the, uh, more restrained version, So let's take, let's bring this back to restaurants. Let's have an actual restaurant conversation. Okay. That happened in a restaurant, by the way, that did happen in this restaurant. Everything happens in a restaurant. True, Francis. That's true. That's one of, that's the cool things about restaurants. Indeed. Everything happens in a restaurant. Indeed. So I was in a restaurant not that long ago for, a family party. Mm-hmm. And it was not a very crowded restaurant. And we had a little private area for 20. Right. And we had a waiter. Okay. Okay. And our waiter was diligent. Okay. He was hardworking and on the task, but we were a little off to the side. And he was by himself. Mm-hmm. So when he was running, for instance, 20 appetizers or 20 entrees to table himself by himself, oh my. There three at a time. Kitchen was on the other side of the restaurant. Oh my hustle back. So. Know, 12, 15 minutes to run entrees. Sure. Now, which is, which I get, I, I had no, no problem with them until I walked through the main restaurant I to use the restroom. Oh, no. I know what you're gonna say. There are three or four other people in the, okay. There are no guests other than our party. Uhhuh and then's quiet late Sunday afternoon. No guests other than our party and three or four other employees of the restaurant, including the manager. Who are in the bar room chitchatting with each other. Waiters who could be helping in one of them? Well, one's a bartender, one's a manager, one's a waiter for the other section that's empty. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, how did you let this guy drown? And how did you allow service like this to happen to your restaurant? Yeah. But. That's one of the disadvantages of not tip sharing. Yeah, yeah. Right. You got tip pooling. You mean tip pooling? Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So when you, when you pool tips and that bartender or that other waiter knows that their income is gonna depend on how the this 20 top. Does. Yeah. And how, how good services. Well, they're much more likely to help, but I, I went from being, oh, our waiter's working so hard to what the hell is happening here? I remember when our staff, our staff decided to be, be a pool house. Mm-hmm. Which is, and when you're not a pool house, you have individual tips. You still tip out the bus boy, you still tip out the bartender and it, you, it's mm-hmm. Everybody in the, in the house gets tipped somehow. But when you're in a pool house, every. Buddy is everybody's problem. Yes. And it evens out your wages over time, and it makes for more cohesive staff. all the great restaurants in the world are pool houses. When our staff changed that it, I think it was one of the best things that ever happened to our restaurant. Sure. Sure. Well, and the other thing is, if not you're, you're fighting over a who gets the best customers, or I'm not gonna help you mm-hmm. Because you're gonna, and I think it works out really well. I think it's, well one of the things that happened, and this is true in, in pool houses, okay. When you do a party menu, when you have a menu, that's a limited menu, right? It is the easiest event of the day, right? Yes. Because the menu's already chosen. You don't have to know a lot about the menu. You don't have to know a lot about the wine list. Right. Frequently, those are already chosen, so, and it just flows, right? Yeah. It's gonna be three courses for everybody. Well, that party in a non tip pool goes to the senior person, right, right, right. The person who knows the most. Sure. Because he, okay. That person, he or she has dibs'cause of seniority and all the customers who have the biggest demands and, and need to know about the nuance, uh, between the pork chop and the pork meades. Right. And be SpecialEd by somebody great. And Right. Yeah. Have somebody now they have the next tier person. Right. Yeah. That, that's interesting. Instead of the top tier person and I, and so one of the things that I, that I think made it easy for our staff, our waiters to staff Yeah. To do this, was they were like, well, let's put the least senior person, right, for maintenance on the party into the, into the easiest part of the day. And let's put the best people into the hardest or more challenging parts of the day and everybody will do better. including the customer, I really like the, the way that a, a pool house works and that's why a restaurant's, if it works. Right. If it works Right. I'm very happy with it here, I think is the way to, do you know where else? I'm always happy Mark. Where's that at? La Bernadin one of the best restaurants in the world, and we're gonna be talking right after the break with Aldo. So who is, uh, author wine guy A returning guest to the restaurant guys and sommelier at La Bernadin. So stick with us. We'll be back in just a moment. We are the restaurant guys. You can find out more, as always@restaurantguyspodcast.com.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Hello everybody. Welcome back. Our guest today is Aldo, so he's a return guest to the restaurant guys. He is one of the most respected voices in the wine world. He is the James Beard Award-winning longtime wine director at La Bernadin with its Michelin Stars and its Wine Spectator Grand Awards. He was named Best Sommelier in America and Later Best Sommelier in the World. His book, wine Simple, is a modern classic. His newest work Wine Simple, perfect Pairings is all about bringing food and wine together with expertise and approachability from the world's most refine dining rooms to everyday tables. And we couldn't be happier to have him on the show today. Aldo, welcome back to the show. We're so happy to have you with us.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Thank you for having me.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:It's been a long time, my friend.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:My God, I, I was just thinking, you know, this is, the wine world was in a very, very different place. Huh?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah, the whole world was in a very, very different place. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It was like 2007 or 2008 when you first came on the show.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Oh my God. This is when, when Burgundy slowly became trendy.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Well, you have written this book and we're gonna talk about a number of things today, but I wanna start off talking about your new book, which is just, uh, launching, just arriving shortly. Um, and you've tackled a subject that I think is. Really one of the most difficult things to quantify. And you say in your book, I thought it was really interesting that you talked about how you have, you're kind of your own encyclopedia of knowledge for all these years of having done this. You just, you can pull out memories of flavors and textures and structures, that kind of work. And I remember we did a proprietary wine program. Here for our inventory. And I wanted the program to be able to write my wine list for me. And I looked at like, well, you know, different regions of the world. You list the wines differently, whether the place comes first or the producer comes first, or the grape comes first, and it, there's a lot of reasons why and. I just knew those reasons from marinating in it my whole life, and trying to formulate those into rules that I could put down was really one of the most difficult and one of the most educational things for me. Did you go through a similar process with the more complicated rules of how to pair wine and food?
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Oh my God. Uh, I, I'm missing a couple of hair in my head. I can't tell you that. it's, uh, I mean, you speaking outta my heart because at the, there were a point where I became really desperate. Uh. Because, you know, I taste wine all day long and taste the food all day long. And you know, with my chefs on Barbara, right, I often pull her in. And when we, when I look for new pairing and have a variety of, uh, glasses in front of me because she communicated also them to the team, you know, to me often I do the wine tasting in the afternoon, keep the bottle and then taste because I think that dish, uh, that wine works with that dish.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yep.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:And in 99% it's absolutely on.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:And she asked me, how do you do
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Uh, and I kind of was a little bit baffled because I had no answer for
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Right? Like, you don't know how you mm-hmm. Like, you just know. How do you know? I don't know. I just know it, it's, it.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:to say, I said to her, it's logic. And she got annoyed by
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, part of it is it becomes instinct, right? Yeah. You know, I, I do the same thing with numbers. You know, I don't remember all the algebraic formulas for the, for the, the things I figure out. I, I just kind of do it in my head. It's like, it's, it's the, the same way you do math is the same way you do. I don't have you, you, you match wines. I don't have that same facility with numbers. So when Mark looks at the books, he knows the answer at the beginning, and then he does the, the paperwork and checking the books. I always say it's like using the force. But we do the same with wine.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:I mean, look with wine, simple.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:my first book right up here. I, was so lucky because we did one thing. I'm a sommelier, I'm not a
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm. Right.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:And I barely speak English. And I'm European, I'm politically incorrect. Uh, default, um, we don't beat around the bush for half an hour. That is a waste of time. We address the problem, we tackle the problem. Five minutes, I spend time with that. And the next 25, we friends, uh, it's, you know, we and wine, we, it's not worth it. the idea was. And I see this on a daily basis because I work now for, you know, over three decades in this industry. Um, I see the fears
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah. Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:in their eyes. wine is still intimidating,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yes. Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:right? Uh, and then there's an old white dressed, uh, black dressed man in front of them. It's not helping the cause whatsoever. Right?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Well, in my case, it's also a giant old dressed man dressed in black in front of them.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:No, but, you know, wine people are often very, very easy to look through. We wanna share the passion,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:right?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:this is a lifestyle for us. You know, if you don't like the wine, if this is the greatest problem we have, we have no
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Right.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Right? Um, but it's, of course, that's, and then people start projecting into you. And then I realized, you know, Le Baran is one world. Then the wine bar completes
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Uh, more because I get to taste also simple cati, classical
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah. Yep.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:you know, a big burgundy. I enjoy that at just also different mindsets. And what's also interesting is also, you know, men buy wine differently than women and it's from a psychological effect. How do you. Approach this as a sommely. And luckily, you know, Christine had for the, for Wine Simple, had this absolutely incredible team. Uh, and Christine Muker, who wrote the book with me, Christine created a fictional person because, you know, how do you simplify something without dumbing it down? we created, the person Josephine, like Josephine Schmo. If Josephine reads this, what would, would she understand this
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:and what would she make out of it? And fast forward and then, you know, we broke down this palatable into palatable sound bites and passed it on. as you read in my wine, simple, you know, wine can get off very, very quickly, stuffy.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:And in my case, look, I started with Bacardi Coke, So
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Right,
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:can you be?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:right. I started with.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:No, because I mean, often sommelier, but also when people mock certain larger brands, they have their purpose. They bring people in, they get people excited, uh, right. And then people want to more listen. Our palette is always driven to better and more challenging. I met very few people who loved the first oyster,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah. Mm-hmm. Well, so I just wanna talk about your,'cause we've dined at Larna, Dan with you. We've done dined at the wine bar as well, and you've always been great and I've watched you and your team with other guests in your dining room. And there's a similar goal, I think when you go to La Bernardin, you're like, you have this award, similar goal, but very different experiences. Yeah. But, but what I'm saying is you go into Laan, you've got this, this award-winning, list that has some of the most expensive and best wines in the world. And you've also got some entry level wines that I know you put as much work into making sure they're as delicious dollar for dollar as the others. And when we,'cause we have a restaurant that is fine dining, but it is not LA Bean. Right. And. We have unusual wines there. And the, the problem that faces us is we wanna invite people to ask questions of us. But we have, for the last 30 years, always been very careful to not intimidate people from, they don't wanna sound, nobody wants to sound stupid. Nobody wants to sound like, I don't know anything about Chinon. Please explain it to me. And so that's, that's just not a question you get in the dining room. Right? And, and so an example of what we do is we always say. If you get as a, as a young waiter to a a point where a que someone's asking a question and you need, you should send over the samia, you should send over somebody who knows more about wine than you. Don't ever say, oh, I'll send the sommelier over. Say, oh, lemme send over Mark. He loves pinot noir. Lemme send over Francis. He's, he loves these wines and we were just talking about them the other night, and we never say the word sommelier because I don't wanna intimidate you. I want to. Send over the friend who knows about wine to help you get it. And that's the feeling I get in your dining rooms and what your book, I think is trying to do even when they send over the sommelier.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:You know. I believe, and it's funny, I, I just posted about this yesterday in Instagram. it's a similar thing I posted about wine
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm. I thought this was a great quote. I watched this. It was, it was terrific. I'd love for you to recount it. Great. Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Uh, it's basically, I got it from a reader actually. Uh, they asked, you know, what do I think about certain trends? What is gonna last and what is going to fade away? I don't look necessarily at trends. Of course you look a little bit what, you know, what's new and so on and so on. What's a new winemaker? Of course you look at that, but I mean, look, I can elaborate. There was a time when in New York, uh, COIC and wine was the hottest candy wanted coic and
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yep.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:we look back, who is talking about corset and wine right now, and again,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:only people from Corsica are talking about Corkin wine right now.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:But we had go through these cycles, right? And I mean, listen, there was abuc, which I still love the wines from
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:right? wines, uh, with a soul and everything. There's a story to it. But the dilemma, if that is, if you have, you have to read the client who is in front of
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:right? Uh. If your client, uh, is coming with the mindset that they wanna drink roughly co and you tell them about a bucci, you lose the
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm. Right?
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:right? And that's why I said, listen to me. I often give this the quote, the fish has to like bait, not the fishermen.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah. Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:why don't you connect with that person? Give that person a hospitality and a service experience second to none, so they will remember you.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:And eventually these people start trusting you. I often downsell people,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah, we do too. We, we talked about that a a lot.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:I care for you as a human
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yep. Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:right, and guess what? I upsell them then left and right too
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:then they trust me.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Well, I think, I think sometimes people come in and, and some people are of a mindset, Hey, we're in a great wine restaurant. Take us on a wine adventure. We like this and this. Another people are like, I want a pinot noir. And you say, okay, well I bring you that, I'll bring you a peanut oil. It's the quote that you used in, in the Instagram recently was, you know, the question was about wine feds, and you said. hospitality is the, fad that I follow. Right, right. and to me that resonated so much. It was just such, one of those moments of Yeah, it, it doesn't matter if you like natural wines or if you like orange wines or you like Coskin wines. If I'm hospitable, I'm gonna get you the wine that you want. I'm me, where I'm, I'm gonna meet where you, you, where you are. Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Yeah, and if you look, I take myself, I'm not a moody person, but I'm a very moody drinker,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:That's, that's great.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:so yeah. But. Sometimes I'm just in a mood for one crisp, fresh G glasss of white
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Nothing else. And sometimes I like a bigger, bolder style of
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:It depends also who I'm with, right? These are all floating changing factors, right? Let's say Mr. Smith comes with a business client in, he probably drinks something very different than Mr. Smith comes with his espousing, right? And so on and so on. I mean, this is endless, right?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:So let's, let's talk about your book, because what you did was you took what I think for us teaching wine classes ourselves for all these years, it's the hardest thing to, I mean, you can give people rules that kind of work most of the time, but you really went comprehensively to take something that I think most people who are good at it. Most So sommeliers view this as some rules with a lot of intuition, and you've written a whole book about pairing wine and food. Tell us some of the rules that you came up with, some of the things you were able to articulate.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Um. Well, let me start. You're talking about, uh, wine, simple, perfect
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yes, yes.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Um,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:There it is. There's a picture of the book.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:there it's, uh, the idea here was look, wine, simple, not in my wildest dreams, avoided the to dream for small percentage. Uh, I'm, it's a really humbling experience and if you read wine simple, the acknowledgements, they have to give. I gave credit to one editor. Who chased me for years to write this book. And I thought, who am I? I have nothing to say what has not been said. And she said to me, you have a, was Susan Camille. Sadly, she passed away and never seen the first book, but she pushed me for years. I've given her credit. I've given her credit also for this book, because never forget the people
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:who pushed and believed in you. So, but the idea was, look, with the pandemic, I realized one thing, people started eating out more. Or decided cooking at home more,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm. Yep.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:or the other. Now we have Josephine. She has now a basic understanding the book or of wine. She has an interest. Uh, she's curious. What does she do with the knowledge? Because most of wine books including wine, simple, we write often, you know, salt goes with this, acidity goes with that. Sweetness goes with this. And this doesn't mean anything for a normal person.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Okay.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Nothing. Um, how does Josephine, when she goes on a date, orders the food for the right wine or vice versa? Or if Josephine cooks it home, she cooks it home. meatballs. What wine can she buy at the liquor store? And I thought to break it down, how can you break this down? That it's becomes logic because it's such a complicated and tedious. And then if you go into my world, you know where it's a big difference between two sauces or uh, two spoons of, uh, sauce or three spoons of sauce, and the whole dish changes. We know that, uh, right, these are the restaurant things, but I didn't wanna make a three Michelin star Sommely out of, uh, Josephine either because there's no need.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Right.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Uh, that being said, Christine gave me. 10 dishes, what would one cook
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:or what to go to a restaurant. And you know, my day in, day out work is often a little bit crazy and you need really, for writing a book, you need time of quiet and calm, which we typically never have. so I was lucky enough to kind of schedule it around when we had a little downtime and it took me two months to develop a matrix. And a matrix, because I look often in the wine pairing. To me, the protein is often X, Uh, we learned this rule. White wine goes with white meat and
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:and red wine goes with dark meat. Let me give you, life is a bit more complicated than
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yes. Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Uh, this is more than antiquated. I have looked more at the sauce. And how the protein is, uh, prepared. Is it grilled or is it seared or is it poached? different thing. Does it, what type of sauce does it have? Does it's more broth or sauce or is it more a thicker sauce? room with that, to maneuver it. So I started doing one thing.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:You know, one of the things you said, and I loved this quote, was you said, A good sommelier knows the food inside and out on the menu because.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:can't be a without not knowing the
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Because what, what an important job that is. And I think that that sign kind of gets lost in the world of sommelier sometimes when you're talking about pairing food and pairing wine, knowing exactly what the dish is and the, and the texture of the dish. And, and we'll talk about more about weight of food and things like that, that come from, book. I, I just found that to be just simple, like one of those things that you would expect that everybody would do that not everybody does.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:I taste the sauce every single day. Because of a restaurant is the consistency. And look, I work with one of the greatest, uh, partners, one canon we hope for, uh, Eric Repair. He is adamant, uh, about consistency, right? He checks nonstop and he's on it nonstop. And for me, look. I, I learned this from him because this was many, many, many years ago. a pairing, which I was very, very passionate about, and then three days after he said, the pairing doesn't work. I said,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Huh.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:what? I said, I just tasted it yesterday again, it's right on. And he says, there's no way. I said, taste, test it. And sure enough, it was a sauce based on sea urchin
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:said, sea urchin is one of the most inconsistent products. Right. It goes up and down and up and down, right? And it wasn't good.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Um,
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:I had to give it to him. And that's when I realized, wait a second, I need to find, you know, the ex, you know, how far is the spread?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:what
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yep.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:today. Maybe x then where is the extreme? Where do I find in the middle? Right, right. That I can tailor this in the middle end, and it's really fascinating.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:You know, Aldo, when we do wine dinners, we conceive of the menu, then we do a menu tasting. Then the day of the dinner, we taste the food and wines together again because something might be different, right? The the chef got fresh basil in that's a little different. You know, it's a lemon basil, not the regular basil that he normally, whatever the thing is, you have to try it every day when you're, when you're putting those types of things together.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:When we have big wine dinners, Eric actually often helps me a little bit and often alters the sauce a little bit
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Oh yeah, yeah. You do that. Oh yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:that in.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:I have to. Well, well, I wanna, I wanna point out a, a difference here, and I think the, a great service that your book does here when, when you come to a restaurant and if there's a great sommelier there and a, or a good sommelier there, or good wine buyer, whatever you wanna call him or her, um, we have tasted all the food. We have, we know what the wines taste like and we've tasted wines like them or different vintages of'em if we don't have the exact wines. And so we, when you ask us for a pairing, we should be bringing you something where it's definitely a one plus one equals three, right? But I think at home, I don't want people to be intimidated. And I think that your book is a great resource, but. Mess around with it. You know what I mean? Like, use some of these principles, find some things that work for you. Maybe it'll help you explain why they work. But I think, you know, at home, I always say to people when they have dinner parties, you know. Open three bottles of wine and don't do them in a specific order, but try all three and build your own repertoire of what goes with what. And your book helps to systematize that knowledge. And I want people at home to feel, and I know you do too, that it's, it's time to mess around at home. you also talk about you have to try things that don't work. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's a, that's an important part of learning. Right. And I, I wanna go to that in a second, but I just wanna say we're getting paid to get it right. You are, you are having a good time in your dining room. And that's how that should be. But what Mar just said, can you talk about that? And I lo we lo both love this about the book when you said he, you give suggestions of things that don't work and say, here, try this and you'll see what a clash is. And I think a lot of consumers at home, they're, they're formulating that basic knowledge and, and to show things that don't work. And why is as important as the o opposite.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Yeah, because look, here's one thing in life, uh. Nobody wants to sit like and be like the professor. Right? and basically, you know, I think it's very, very important. Um, there's a ton of learned on a wine, which you absolutely despise, but why is it?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:it that I don't like? also why doesn't it work? To me that's an important factor because look, we, and I give you the most interesting example I see all the time, in America, everybody loves blue cheese and they drink a red wine with it. Now, if you, if you really eat consciously without cell phone or any other distraction, almost impossible to eat blue cheese with a. A tanic red wine on top of it without having one wrinkle in your face, that is not possible, right? Uh, it's just too harsh, too aggressive. It's like you have Windex in your mouth, right? Whether if you have a wine with a little bit of a sweetness to basically take that sharpness and coat the saltiness of it, then you take that away. But you know, it's always one thing. If the Somali tells you, this is the rule, do it this way. It's very important to see what the negative part is so you understand.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:You know, especially I think people who haven't been in the restaurant business since, people on the floor of restaurants get to taste wines. If you're tasting wines for cork every night, you get to supplement your book. Learning with learning about all these different wines that you're serving. Um, and one of the things we always teach young waiters that is, is very interesting too.'cause you have to know. The flaw. When we find a corked bottle of wine, we will put that bottle of wine aside and we will for a staff meal at sev. All the new people especially will, will have them smell and taste the corked bottle of wine because. we want them to know that that's a flaw because there are things, if you don't know anything about cheese right? And you open a stinky cheese, you're like, oh my God, the cheese went bad. Well, no, that, that is a truffle ma'am. Right. You know, so that, so, but to that, that is a very important part of the frame of reference. And people are like, there are many foods you're like. Is that disgusting or wonderful? Uh, it's a truffle, it's wonderful. You know what I mean? And, and so I think that part of your book is the only time I've ever seen that. Like, go try these things. These are flaws and this is why that's wrong. But you know what? If you like it, then eat that all the time. But, but here's, here's a way to look at how it's wrong. That, that, that was fabulous. Part of your book.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Yeah. That's why again, you have to tell people, see, this is what I learned in wine. Simple. You have to give often an unbiased opinion, right? And underline that why. And if you, again, you can take me by the word, but try it
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:you see what we are talking about, right?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:How often does mom tell you do not touch your bare, uh, with your bare hand, the hot stove?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Right.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:We all have our, uh, bruises on it still because we had to
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Had it once.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Yeah. But that's the experience everyone
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:A hundred percent.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Uh, that's the most important part. And I think it's very important. You know, everybody will believe if you give them a little notch, try it,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:All right. Well.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:about it, and watch, and maybe your perception will change as a result.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:And the counterpoint to that is you, you don't always have to accept something as as fact. You know, your mom told you not to eat an hour before going swimming, and. Sometimes I go swimming without waiting an hour. And it's okay. It's really okay. And you're still here. Alright, listen, we're gonna take a quick break. We'll be back in just a moment talking more, more with Aldo. So one of the world's leading experts on wine about our favorite topic. Uh, stick with us. You can find out more about us, as always@restaurantguyspodcast.com. Hey there everybody. Welcome back. We're with Aldo. So Aldo, in your book, one of the favorite, my favorite bits of word play in the wine world, uh, was you do not have an algorithm for finding great wines. You have an Aldo rhythm for finding that is a dad joke of monumental proportions. Uh, can you explain it to us?
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Um, I mean, look the way how I put the book together, it's just, you know, how do you. Distill the information down and make this accessible. So I started weighing on one thing, categorizing wines right into light, medium, full, and then opulent, but also the dishes. What is a driving force in a dish, What? What's the personality in a dish? To me, often what alcohol is often in wine is the fat. Uh, or the richness in the dish gives you sort of a weight, how
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:it, right? I often call it texture, but often texture is perceived as something different like breadcrumbs or crispies, right? Um, that viscosity. And if you bring both together, you have basically a connecting point. then I did one thing. Because Christine gave me homework of 10 dishes. can you break this down? And I tried to, and we had, Christine spent more time with Christine than with my wife, uh, many times. And I felt really guilty and prefer vice versa. I, when I taste wine, I often look at one thing. I look at the alcohol, I look at the residual sugar, and I look at the acidity. I look at that triangle. because if you had high alcohol right there still can be a little bit residual sugar.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:hidden and we don't think about, right. Think about how many people don't like Riesling, but they have no problem drinking Prosecco,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Right.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:which
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:that has just often, much more than many dry Rieslings has residual sugar. But because of the acidity and the CO2, we don't look at
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Right.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Or look at big, bold, uh, red wines from a hot climate. There's Sid sugar. That's why they bring that kind of power on. Uh, I look at that. So I look in this triangle, but then I realized, uh, so I called it triangle. Then I realized, oh, wait a second. Then you have to look at, at Italian, and then you have to look at another element. then, because I don't speak English, I called it not Pentagon, I called it pentagram.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Not a
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:I've been told this is slight. This means something slightly
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:yes.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:it's not pentagram. then I kept thinking, and again, Christine took the opposition and I basically had to sell her. You know why for instance, this and this wine works with spaghetti meatballs. We all can cook at home. And because in my accent, which can you believe I have an accent?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Uh, right.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Barely. We talked about your Brooklyn accent the last time you were on the show.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:I love it. She basically, when I explained to her that, uh, I thought it's like an algorithm, and it turned out to be, she understood and said, what an algorithm, and that's how this stuck.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Uh, that's great.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:And so I created this matrix that you can play at whether you go in a restaurant. And figure this out in less than 15, 20 seconds because Josephine is on a date. She doesn't have time, you know, to spend five minutes on
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Right? Yep.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:can figure this out, but also reverse it if she goes in the wine store and buys a bottle of wine for the meal she's gonna cook tonight she can play this in both ends. so I create this algorithm that kind of stuck them.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:I love it. I absolutely love it. You know, it's, it's a great word, and I'm sure you got tired of, you know, Aldo, the Psalm, right? So you needed a new, you needed a new expression to, to tell people who you're.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:this is happens still every day and I'm actually amazed by it. I never thought about it before I came to the us. the marketing people, they really ask me. So your last name is really so,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:No.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:uh,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:No.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:right? And I never thought of it.'cause in Europe we see, we don't, we don't
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm. Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:it Somali,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Sure, sure, sure. Interesting.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:so I said, no, no. My real name is Brad Pitt.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:All right. So I wanna, I, I think one of the things that's really interesting, and I really wanna encourage people, if you have never delved this geekly into wine, but you just like wine'cause it's tasty. I always like on-RAMP books, and I think your books are on-ramp books for people. Mm-hmm. Especially in a world where a lot of people aren't on-ramping into wine. Some younger people aren't on-ramping into wine. And I, and there's a lot of criticism out there that says, you know, we need to get away from the al aspects of wine. We gotta stop talking about acidity and body and weight and we should just sell wine based on feel. And I've seen some wine criticisms and critics that have changed there. Way that they write about wine. And to me it makes no sense that because it doesn't say anything. I said, well, this is the kind of wine I would have on a summer day at the beach with friends. You didn't tell, you didn't tell me anything. And it might be, but how does that help me? whereas I think what we need to do is we need to recognize that, hey, listen, if you just like wine and you're like, I'd like some Zellar Schwartz of cats, and that's great, that's great, and there's nothing wrong with that. But if it tickles your fancy a little bit, you know, then, then you wanna learn a little bit more. As with any hobby, as of any sport you start to follow or mm-hmm. Or hobby, you tend to have, you know, I think that. This is a great way to on ramp up and learn a little bit more about something if you like it. But I wanna encourage people out there if you like, you know, go to a restaurant and say, you know what? I run a nice glass of wine, a little bit of sweetness, that's fine too. Yep. That's the way it starts.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:You know, you're speaking outta my heart because I, I read, comments like this as well, and I read opinions like this as well. That's one way of approaching it, right? Uh, if you make it, if you really start taking it more passionate and taking a more serious approach, it's like having a car. Of course, a car brings you from A to z.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Right,
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:But if you start becoming interested and you're not just saying, yeah, we know you should just do whatever car is fun, right? Because all of a sudden it's developing an interest and you start looking, okay, how much horsepower does it have? How is this right? Has the RPM and this and these little things can help you with you experience Now? Do you have to be able to become a mechanic? Uh, right. Start disassembling the car and putting it back together? Probably not, but a little base knowledge. Which is you can't acquire just from TikTok,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yep.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:um, is maybe helpful to get it there
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Well,
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:have to make a fuss around it. I do this often with, when I have friends of my wife in, I just still pair the wines regardless onto the meal. Don't talk about
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:right? Mm-hmm. Right.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:them experience it. And you know, funny enough, nine out of 10 times point this actually out. This was actually wonderful. Also the way how everything tasted,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah, lead with pleasure. Explain it later if you're asked. You know, that's the most important thing.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:but that's, and I know people pick up on that.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:A hundred percent, you mean? Well, you know, you can go to the Prado Museum. It's a building full of pretty pictures, right? But then if you go back there a lot, maybe you start to learn something about Spanish painting or maybe like a particular artist you kinda like, and it's the same it, it's all the same. And I think it's great to walk around a building full of pretty pictures. It's a lovely afternoon, but it's also great to learn about, you know, what's in there.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:that's why a little bit of a base knowledge, it comes in handy. You don't, again, why this book is not designed to make a three star so mile out of you. No, but it tries to get you in
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Well, it's designed to make you the experience better for you, whether you're at a restaurant or your home or what have you. one of the things that, that we share, right? We, we love wine and we want people to, to enjoy the, all the great things that wine brings you. Right. Wine's. Wine's got just it, it enhances life. Okay. For a lot of people. For most of it, it enhances life. What are you seeing in your dining rooms between some bar and, uh, la Bernadin? What are you seeing as far as people enjoying wine and cocktails and, and how, what are the trends you're seeing in both your Michelin three star restaurant and your wine bar? Uh, nearby?
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Uh, I mean, look, we live in a very hectic world. Uh, it's very fast paced Sometimes, you know, I see people coming in a wine bar at four o'clock and they just want a glass of crisp, fresh g glass of white wine, which it just can jot
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yep.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:and
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Affable. I like, I call those affable something. I'm just gonna drink for just the pleasure of having a drink. Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:meet a coworker, you know, they just one event, uh, the day off and, you know, they want the wine, which basically supports their conversation. If you go to Laban often, you know, and you have a tasting menu, you look for an experience. And of course, depending on, I had yesterday, actually, funny enough that you say this, I had two gentlemen in, they asked one Somme, they wanna have an elevated wine pairing, and they said, we wanna spend two and a half thousand dollars on it.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Okay, I can do this. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:the way, how they set this also is that because we like to challenge the som. Now, of course, listen, of course you see the numbers, but I, the moment you get distracted by money, immediately you lose your passion and you lose your creativity in no time because it dilutes it. Of course, your boss is very happy, right? Uh, because there's revenue. But if you have a client like that and you know, he says it like this, you know, he's expecting something
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:you better deliver.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:that is your client. And I said this to one of my son, he said, this is actually a sticky. Position you're being right now in, because that is the client, which can be your greatest long-term client. This can be also the client, which you get the most horrific, complaint letters about it. And so I went over there to these two gentlemen and said, um, I know you gave this kind of, um,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Criteria.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:uh, do this to my, so now, how, how key, how strong can I geek out on you?
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah, yeah, yeah,
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Right. Uh, how far
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:You finding their place?
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Right? I'm hearing you and I'm listening to you and I'm seeing you, and they said, listen, you can do your cartilage if you need more money, no problem. We'd just like to have a really incredibly experience and said, I have you covered.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:There's, uh, for me, there's nothing more fun than that. Right? That's the, to be challenged for somebody to throw the gauntlet down and say, I want the best wine, and food pairings, I can possibly have
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:not about the money,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yes, absolutely.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:less.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:almost always gonna get your best experience when you, when you make a statement like that, whether it's about money or not, whether, whether you say, I have a hundred dollars and I want to have the best experience I can possibly have for a hundred dollars, you're gonna still get that same mind space from From right. You put from us, you put yourself in our hands. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:if you say, I need this for half the
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:what can you do? It's listen. But again, this wasn't my point. So I delivered to them and I said, and I looked at them, I said, I really can geek out on you. And they also do. He said, absolutely. So I gave him also a combinations, which in textbook make absolutely no
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Oh, that's great.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:none. I said, have it. Look right now, the sauce cooled off a little bit. Try it now with this wine. Uh, and I guarantee you will come, you come as close to God as possible.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:And did they.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:They actually thanked me profoundly
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:it.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:for it was really, uh, this is why I love this industry because you get immediate feedback
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:I'll tell you, I could never work in the kitchen or like Francis was about to say, I can never be a winemaker where I don't see the person enjoying the product, being on the restaurant floor. There's nothing like that.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:They thank me profoundly said, listen, we are very, we are very, very lucky. We are very, very fortunate in life. That's why we can afford also kind of these kind of meals. But the reason why, you know, often wine pairings are performed is calculated. We like to break out a little bit of that role and challenge to somebody to get an experience, and then we see often two things. Either we don't do this in every restaurant because when the program is not necessarily there, there's no point in doing that. But when you have a program there, but then often he said this point blank to me. And that's when I saw the danger from, from beginning there. And it was confirmed. There were two hardcore attorneys, and he said, look, sometimes, you know, Willis get lazy just serving us two bottles of wine. And that's the end of
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah. Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Um, and you actually was, this was the wine of Oura because we'd never expected anything like this. there was actually one dish. We have one dish, poached salmon, uh, with a spoon of caviar and a sauce marinna, which di mounted with a little bit of horse rice. And just to make this dish, uh, more impossible for the summer, he added some pickled, uh, beets to it, uh, which delivers sweetness and vinegar, acidity. I said to them, look. I thought about it to serve you Aru with this, and I said, oh, I love Krug. I said, yeah, but asked me for a pairing.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:I'm downselling you because I know this writer at 2016 is the better combination. If you, if you want aru, I have no ego. I'm opening a bottle immediately
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:It's just not as a good thing. I said, you so much. We trust you 100%, because so far this has been incredible. but that was again, hospitality listening, recognizing
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yep.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:breaking out of your day in, day out habit. And again, you have clients, regular clients now forever. And guess what? They making free advertisement for
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yes, so I have, we have a similar uh, uh, couple that come in and they've been coming in for more than 10 years now, but it was about 10, 12 years ago. And they said, we've been in a number of times, you've recommended great wines for us. We would like to come in and have dinner for two, and we would like the bill to be$1,486. Exactly. I was like. Um, okay. And so I, I crafted a tasting menu for them and the bill came to$1,486. And, uh, they had a great time. I took them through course, by course we did, and, and I said them when I said, what can I ask? What the significance of that is? Like, yes. Uh, the last alimony check after 20 years that I had to pay was$1,486, and that was last month. So this month I put it toward dinner and I thought,
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:That's Bonnie.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:they come every year on the anniversary and now they come every year on the anniversary of the alimony check and, and have, and have a dinner and like that. That's great. Yeah. Alright, so I wanna bring this into something personal, Aldo. You are relentlessly positive and you cannot have a conversation with Aldo. So without smiling and being invested and brought into your world, tell me about your life as a psalm. I mean, you've, she's a lot of success, but you are a relentlessly positive person, and that's part of your charm. And, and tell us about that. Tell us about you as a sum.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Oh, uh, know, it's funny, um, I, I, I probably unable to answer this question because this is just me. look, I live in New York, which to me is one of the most magical places on Earth because. While in the restaurant industry, we won't become millionaires, uh, let alone billionaires, we, we become billionaires in one thing, and that is personal experiences because we have access to the greatest and smartest minds, uh, this world has seen. And oddly enough, because we wind them up, they talk with us,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:And to me, this is the greatest, uh, gift I one can possibly have. I'm very, very fortunate because I found in a very early stage of my life what I love to do the most, and that was my hobby back then, and it's now my job, but I've never worked a day.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Uh, you know, I love that you said that The other thing you can do is you can start a podcast and you can get to, and you can talk to all the smartest people in your industry and all the, your favorite people in the industry will spend 45 minutes with you talking about the things that they love,
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:there's one little trick to it. Uh, this is what I enjoy about the wine bar. You assemble 10 random people from all walks of life. And give them one or two glasses of
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:They start talking with each other and if you add a third glass to it, they start talking about mama's cooking, and this is when the magic happens. It's absolutely incredible.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:I I, I have to say though, to return to a former point, I, we, Eric's been on our show and we've, we've seen him in, in public and run into each other a few times, but the two of you have you set the tone for. What happens in your restaurants? And we've seen on TV, and we've seen in reality, and we've worked within our lives, people who let the high stress part of elbows out, restauranting, whether it's the chef or the wine people, it can be competitive in a way that is, um, it's just not as nice and, and not as, um, welcoming and warm. And you guys seem to have very similar personalities and compliment each other very well. And that trickles down through your staff and, uh, and it's, it's what hospitality should be. So kudos to you.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:I mean, I mean, I know Eric, uh, he walks to work every day. He
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:walks to work every day. He's a happy
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yes. one of the questions we get, and I'm sure you get this question all the time, what's your favorite restaurant to go to? What do, where do you go when you want to have a great time? My answer to that question more times than not is Larna Dent. So you should know that that's, that's the answer to that question for me.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Well, I, I would say the same because I go here 300 and, uh, plus days a year.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:I like that. I like that.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Al Wine bar. No, I mean, many great restaurants, but it, it, to me, this is a mood driven
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. A hundred percent.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:that's.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Well, again, we, we appreciate you so much. We appreciate the work you do every day. Again, we know what it's like to be on the floor 300 days, a year. And, just trying to get that done and still do some other interesting things with your life, like be a, a marathon bicycle rider and the, and the fun challenges you do with the free time you have in your life.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Yeah, but look, this is one thing I see and I see quite a bit. I mean, I, in my case, when I got out of hospitality school, you go one thing, and I was always very, very driven. I was very, very passionate. I was very determined. came also from a conservative household. My father said, you
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Mm-hmm. Hmm.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:uh, every dollar or back in the day, every year, you, you earn, you reinvest in your knowledge. Uh, don't buy a fancy car right away. Buy a shitty car.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Uh, which of course, when you're young. It's not really cool. Uh, but luckily I listened to my father in, in, in retrospect because I, there wasn't for me, there was no mile too long if I had a trainer who trained with me. There was no hour too long, uh, if I had the opportunity to work with someone for free. Didn't matter. Thank you. can I set up the tasting? I break down the tasting, I mop the floor. No problem. Just I can spend an hour with you, learn from you. and I invested everything ahead. Eventually it comes, it catches on.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah. Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:I was sick, nonstop. uh, only working. This can't be the answer either.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Yeah.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:But I grew up in rural Austria. Right? We are very outdoorsy people. Then I went on a treadmill and I thought, watch the Kardashians. And I thought, this can't be it either,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Right.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Uh, I'm not a gym person. So then I, I, don't know why I started, cycling and I was hooked immediately And so Sommely, you know, you eat and you drink and you taste all the time. How do you make this sustainable? We take care of our body too, because you need that, and it helps me to become a better person. I'm more calm. Yes, it is a time investment and you know, I'm Catholic. I feel guilty by birth,
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Uh huh
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:right. Um, but I've learned also thing, I don't have to be more religious than the Pope that's his job or not mine. but it's a well invested time because I'm clearer at work. I taste better.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Uhhuh.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:I don't get annoyed, quickly, and you tackle the problems which are worth to tackle. The other ones we don't tackle necessarily right away
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:I love it.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:they don't result in anything.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:Well, I think that we all benefit from your work life balance, and the work you do is really great. Uh, thanks for coming on today. It's been a pleasure to have you. Thanks so much, Aldo.
aldo-sohm_1_09-18-2025_151503:Thank you for having me.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_151518:So, Aldo's new book is Wine Simple, perfect Pairings. You can find out more in our show notes and uh, pick it up. We have, it's great.
the-restaurant-guys_2_09-18-2025_160824:Hey, Aldo. So super nice guy. Really? Between him and repair, there are two of the nicest fricking guys. They're, it is amazing. They're nicer than we are. Well, they're nicer than you are, man. Oh man, that's not right. See what I mean? See what I mean? No, seriously though. You know, one of the things Aldo spoke about was tasting the food, tasting the wine, tasting it every day. Right. Mm-hmm. Uh, you know, I was thinking about this just the other day, how important it is and, and our bartenders do this all the time, for you to be tasting your cocktails every day. Yeah. When you make a a, a cocktail, certainly your first one of the day of that cocktail, you need to taste it. Well, unless it's all spirit, unless it's a Manhattan. Yes. Unless it's all Spirit, unless it's Manhattan. Absolutely. That's absolutely correct. If it's juicy, your juice is different, but, but your juice is different. Um, your melt might be a little different depending on, on the ice. you need to taste that initial cocktail every day. Whenever you make it, and I see bartenders neglecting that one little step all the time, but it's an important step. Can I share with you from 25 years ago, we had a problem of consistency that took us a li hot minute to figure out what was going wrong. Okay. The Chipotle mayonnaise. Oh yeah. And the Chipotle mayonnaise, which is an integral part of our burger, and we were one of the first people to serve Chipotle. It's everywhere now. 1992 was first, but in first time we had it two. And so around 94, all of a sudden the Chipotle mayonnaise would come out. And it would be darker, sometimes Be darker. And really spicy. And really too spicy. Yep. And we go back to the kitchen guy. At the time we didn't have the long-term staff we have now and be like, this is different. He is like, no it's not. I'm like, yes it is. I followed the recipe. The ingredients are exactly the same. And we, it took us a while of like, and we'd have to take it and reject that batch of, mm-hmm. Of Chipotle Mayo. And what we found out in the end was. He, depending on who was making it, sometimes they included the seeds and sometimes no seeds, and sometimes they didn't. And, but I mean, we ripped our hair out trying to figure out what, and we got, and we got that answer. And, and you know what, Francis and I do this for a living and have done this for a really long time. It's different. We know it's different. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we got the answer of it's not different. I made it exactly the same way. Yeah. Yeah. The products are different sometimes how, how they're utilized is different sometimes, and you need to taste. The food and the spirits and the wine you gotta be tasting all the time. It is a big part of this business. Alright, so Mark, I'll tell you what, I'm gonna take one for the team. Yeah, I'm gonna go have a cocktail. I said taste okay. You can have a little bar trough full of cocktail. How's that? Oh, that's not very nice. All right, well I hope you guys have enjoyed the time with Aldo Sohm. What a great guest. What a great time. I know that we certainly have. I'm Francis Shot. And I'm Mark Pascal. We are the restaurant guys. Find out more. Follow and subscribe@restaurantguyspodcast.com.
