Living Aligned: Thriving with Spinal Fusion & Scoliosis Over the Decades featuring Meg Ossorio

In this heartfelt and hopeful conversation, Meg and I dive into what it really looks like to live with a spinal fusion long-term.  We share decades of lived experience, the lessons we've learned, and the powerful ways we're staying strong, energized, and pain-aware -- not pain-ruled. 

Tune in as we explore: 

• Our favorite tips and tricks for staying mobile and energized
• How to prevent further progression and stay proactive with your healt
• Ways to adapt to the physical shifts that come with age and scoliosis
• And how we've turned limitations into strength and self-love 

Whether you're newly diagnosed, post-op, or just seeking support, this on'es for you. 

Meg Ossorio’s scoliosis was discovered when she caught cat scratch fever. She
underwent a spinal fusion from T2 – L2 with Harrington Rod instrumentation in 1979, and wore a plaster cast for nine months. Many years later, Meg graduated from the Desert Institute of the Healing Arts in Tucson, AZ and practiced massage therapy for seven years. Her passion for holistic health led her to explore various types of alternative healing modalities in her quest for living well with a spinal fusion. Her new passion is sound healing, and Meg is currently working on her certification in this modality. 

Connect with Meg 

Instagram @genxspinalfusion and on 

Substack at crookedstardust.substack.com.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 1:19

Welcome back to today's episode of Unapologetic Living. I am excited to have another scoliosis warrior known as Gen X Spinal Fusion on Instagram, and that's how I found her, Meg Osorio.

SPEAKER_01: 1:35

Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be on your podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 1:40

Yeah, you know, Instagram opened me up to a world of of other scoliosis individuals. Because I really, in my circle, have like four or five. And I met those four or five other than my mother in the last, I don't know, I guess eight years. I don't even know how they found me. And everyone is older. None of them are fused. They just, you know, stayed strong and active. But what I'm seeing, because I've been with them now for a chronic pain issues, it's knee or it's hip or it's the neck. And, um, you know, I've always been active, but seeing it right in clients, uh, reiterates to me, I can't get lazy now.

SPEAKER_01: 2:32

Right. No, no. In fact, old getting older is when we need to ramp up even more.

SPEAKER_00: 2:39

Yeah. So you, I was listening. You are, Had your spinal fusion in like 1979. Okay. And you're 59. I

SPEAKER_01: 2:51

just turned 60 in April.

SPEAKER_00: 2:52

Okay. What day? What day? Earth Day, April 22nd. Okay. Happy birthday. I'm April 8th. I thought it would be a while if we shared the same birthday.

SPEAKER_01: 3:03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 3:03

All right. So you're 60. So in 1979. I'm not going to do any math. Will you tell me how old you were? I was 14. 14.

UNKNOWN: 3:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 3:13

And then where were you growing up at the time?

SPEAKER_01: 3:15

Well, at the time, I was living in a really small town in North Florida. And I missed the screening the day they had it in school. Ironically enough, I had a doctor's appointment. And later on, I found out that they did the Adams forward bend test. Well, the school nurse didn't check me, so I fell through the cracks. And it wasn't until I got what turned out to be cat scratch fever, but I got this mysterious lump under my arm like a year later. And in the process of getting it, it diagnosed, I got an x-ray and then that's when the scoliosis was discovered and then the lump disappeared and I was off on my scoliosis journey.

SPEAKER_00: 3:56

Now, do you remember the degree of your curvature?

SPEAKER_01: 4:00

Yeah, it was 44 degrees. So I have a right thoracic left lumbar curve, double major idiopathic and 44 degrees. in the thoracic area and 34 in the lumbar area.

SPEAKER_00: 4:14

Okay. So I just want to make sure that I understand it correctly because you're definitely a little bit more, what would be the word? You're articulating that better than I am. I went to massage school. Okay. So yeah, right now. So I did too, but from the Strothmuth and I have the 3C.

SPEAKER_01: 4:36

Okay, I don't know. I do this trough, but I don't know what you're talking about here.

SPEAKER_00: 4:41

So it's like mine comes down,

SPEAKER_01: 4:43

goes

SPEAKER_00: 4:44

this way away from my heart. Okay. Is that how yours is? Yeah. And then it comes down. Yes. Yeah, okay. So we have the same curve pattern. Probably, yeah. So then when they went in, because I had a, I don't remember the lower when I was a kid, because I was 12, 11. I think it was in the 40s. And then like currently my upper thoracic is 37.

SPEAKER_01: 5:12

Well, and Elizabeth, the only reason that I know about my degrees is because after I started on my scoliosis journey in adulthood, the only records that were left at the hospital in Atlanta was just a letter from my doctor excusing me for PE and he had the degrees on it. That's the only reason I know. So I got some kind of correction, I'm sure, but not like what you see today. Well, and they excused you from PE. For the rest of my high school career, yes. Wow. And I had to sit in the bleachers, which is horrible. That's the worst thing I could have done with a smile. Vision was set on a hard surface for an hour, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 5:54

Yeah, and I think things have changed probably a bunch since then. I don't recall being... excused for PE. Gosh, I would have liked that maybe. Probably with the brace after the surgery, I was excused, but not prior to. Okay. Oh, interesting. Yeah. I don't remember. That was a weird, crazy time in my life. I don't know if you can recall like events leading up to But for me, there was a lot of emotional stuff, a lot of family stuff. And so a lot of it's a blur. My mother was diagnosed with breast cancer around the same time. My parents were really rocky. And then, of course, you know, I get this diagnosis. So even my parents are like, we don't remember that much about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:44

That is kind of similar to me. So my parents were divorced. We were living in with my grandparents and we moved into a mobile home on their property. So that was so. But then my mom moved us to the capital of Florida. So my scoliosis was discovered in this small town. But then we moved to Tallahassee, Florida over the summer. And I didn't have very I didn't have any friends. I had to start a new school in the ninth grade. So I'm kind of shy and I'm kind of reserved. So I didn't really have a lot of friends when I had to go get the surgery. Now I'm reconnected with some of the women who were in my eighth grade class. And every single one of them remember when I came back in the body cast. But it was like my childhood was not a fun, happy childhood anyway. So it was almost like just another thing I had to deal with. But I don't remember a lot. The only thing that triggers memories is certain songs. And that'll take me back to a memory.

SPEAKER_00: 7:46

Yeah. I mean, I can have a hard time recalling my childhood too. I know there were moments, but there was also a lot of strife. So I do, you know, I guess I'm not totally convinced when they say idiopathic for unknown cause, I don't totally necessarily buy into that. I just think that that's what the allopathic, um, That's the way they describe. I mean, that's what I think. I think there's really some sort of psychoemotional reason for all disease in the body. And, you know, I remember interviewing this woman, Maria Magical Hands. I think she's something like that. Magical Hands, Maria. And she's like, yeah, what's got you all twisted up?

SPEAKER_01: 8:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 8:32

And, you know, there are probably people out there who don't want to. believe that per se, and it might be underlying and subtle and subconscious that it hasn't even really been brought to awareness. Like what emotions might be trapped in the body, in the scoliotic body. But I was, you know, just in having this conversation wondering, you know, I know what led up to mine. Now my mother has it too.

SPEAKER_01: 8:59

My great grandmother had a kyphosis, but it skipped two generations and she, I have it and another male cousin has it and had a spinal fusion too. In this family, they had other members in between those generations have it, but not to the severity that I do. But I also had some challenging experiences in my childhood. Well, I'm just going to say I had six out of the eight adverse childhood experiences. So I'm sure that that didn't help, especially when you have to sit on one butt cheek and switch butt cheeks because you got your, because you got beat. the night before. So yeah, that happened. That happened to me. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 9:40

Yeah. And that's going to throw off your

SPEAKER_01: 9:42

posture. And then now I know you live in Kentucky, right? I'm originally from West Virginia. And I went back in 2020. I was just there for my birthday, but I went back in 2022. And I mean, I think the whole state of West Virginia has scoliosis, right? The mountains and the curvy roads. And I thought to myself, How could I not have scoliosis? Is every surface I was standing on level like the whole time?

SPEAKER_00: 10:09

Really? You know, so yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's an interesting thing. So you are 14. And then what type of fusion? Did you have the Harrington rod or what?

SPEAKER_01: 10:22

Yes. So in that in those days, they were doing it with the Harrington rod. And I had just one rod. And it had two hooks on either end. It was reinforced by bone, pulverized bone from my hip.

SPEAKER_00: 10:35

All right. From the whole spine? T2 to L2. Okay. T2 to L2. Mm-hmm. And then did they remove those? They're still in your body.

SPEAKER_01: 10:53

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I would imagine it would be quite a... undertaking to chip that through all that bone and remove it at this point. So I'm hoping that it's going to be in there forever.

SPEAKER_00: 11:05

Yeah. Yeah. I know. Yeah. Mine is 35 years old. How old is your fusion? It's 46 now. Yeah. Yeah. And I hadn't really thought about it in those terms until I guess when I, just in the last two years, I've really started to look into this more and understand it better simply because i herniated three discs and that's been mentioned in other shows but um i had to start rehabbing to fix my i was in so much pain you know When I was going, well, because of your spine, right, your neck is more compromised. It's going to be off whichever way it is and blah, blah, blah. And you don't have the natural curve in your cervical spine. So you're kind of straight up. So these muscles are going to be all this stuff. And really, when you understand that it affects everything in your body. Mm

SPEAKER_01: 12:07

hmm. Yeah. And I didn't really understand that until I went to massage school. And I feel like I don't practice anymore, Elizabeth, but I went for myself as much as for other people. And that's when I really started thinking about how my whole structure is really compromised and how, and I didn't, I didn't know about compensation patterns and a lot of things I didn't know about that I, that I learned. So.

SPEAKER_00: 12:32

And I think that's one of the reasons I was drawn into body work as well is because I wanted to understand, right? We do compensate or to see one physical therapist. So I'm fused from T11 to L3. Okay. And this was in like 1990 and it was called, and they still do it. It's called the Zilky procedure. So they go in the side body. So I'm, I'm cut here.

SPEAKER_02: 13:00

I

SPEAKER_00: 13:00

can't see it anymore. I covered it with a tattoo. But it's like from here to here. I broke out a couple ribs. And then they just didn't. So they didn't touch the upper curve at all. Oh, okay. They only worked to straighten my lower lumbar curve in hopes that this would not get worse. And because there are no known records. We have no records. They do not hold them anymore, I think, past 10 years. I don't know what they originally were. So I don't know if things have gotten worse or better. Maybe they just stay the same. But that's, you know, that's what my procedure was very different. I know it looks like when you follow different people and meet different people, they're all so different. So they

SPEAKER_01: 13:51

did the whole

SPEAKER_00: 13:52

procedure through your side? Yeah. Okay.

UNKNOWN: 13:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 13:56

Oh, so, but because of this, you know, this affected this psoas, this left hip terribly. And I didn't put a lot of pain until afterwards. But one of the things that this PT found was like the only way I could get my psoas to now fire was to hold my breath, which it shouldn't be, right? So I'm using, I have to hold my breath in order to get the psoas to fire, which is poor. It's not good function, right? I should be able to Engage my psoas without having to hold my breath. So, you know, there's a lot of things that, you know, I don't know. You don't really think about until you I think part of it's just a getting older and your body starts changing and it happens gradually. Right. You just don't move as well. Yeah, I don't. Did you feel like it really limited your mobility? I don't feel like. Over the course of my life, it has overly limited my mobility. Some, maybe I can't twist this part, which I've quit twisting anyway, because I've heard that's not good.

SPEAKER_01: 15:05

Right. So I just kind of forgot I had a fusion. And I think one of the things that really helped me early on was this friend of mine. I was a junior in high school and this friend of mine said, hey, why don't you join this gym with me? And I'm sure it was just so she could get a free month in the gym. I'm like, OK, I wasn't really interested. athletic before then. I'm more of a bookish music person. So I wasn't involved in any kind of sports or anything like that. Um, and that was, that was my thing. I loved weightlifting. I think that kept me pretty much pain free until I got into, I want to say perimenopause. Um, well, massage school, I did have some pain with my, uh, sacroiliac joints after I started doing massage that went away when I quit. But, um, yeah, I just kind of forgot that I had a fusion all in my, my youth was just like, I may move a little bit different, but I wasn't always thinking about it until I got to massage school. Um, so yeah, now, um, I still have the same motion that I have, but it just hurts a little more when I wake up in the mornings, it hurts more.

SPEAKER_00: 16:13

Yeah. I, um, remember, so I had that fusion, um, And I mean, maybe like six months, but again, I don't recall any restrictions placed on me. Like I was looking at old photos and I'm gonna post them on Instagram, but I learned to ski, I don't know, a year later. And then I jumped off a 45 foot cliff into the Colorado River with that spinal fusion. I look back and I'm like, what the fuck was I thinking?

SPEAKER_01: 19:37

Yeah. I remember I went river rafting in Colorado. I used to live in Colorado and I did a lot of things except rock climbing. I didn't do that, but the whitewater rafting could have been risky.

SPEAKER_00: 19:49

That's the thing. It's like, what, what are you doing? And then horseback riding, you know, I did some of that out there. And then, um, you know, hiking up mountains. Like it really hasn't. And I had a baby at home with no drugs. It hasn't kept me. I never thought about, oh, I shouldn't do these things or how was it going to impact me? Maybe my parents asked those questions with the surgeon. It's almost like the younger finding gratitude for being that they chose that, even though I don't know if I would choose it again. If I got to make that decision, it was almost, that makes sense. Like it just, I didn't think about it that much. If I was having one now, I would be going into it with like so much more thought. I would too. So many more questions and thinking how, how is this really going to impact my life? So I think I'm grateful that my parents made that decision for me when I was 12.

SPEAKER_01: 20:52

Well, you know, for me, so my mind wasn't detected right away, but there was nothing but a brace to wear. So now that we have seen how scoliosis can progress during times of hormonal fluctuations like pregnancy and menopause, even if I had just worn a brace, I probably would, depending on how much the correction I got with a brace, I would still probably have my scoliosis progress. So I just like to think, you know, it was the only thing that could be done at the time. And that was the only thing to do. So I did it. Yeah. The surgeon told me it was too late to wear a brace, but after the fusion, they did tell me not to ride horses, not to jump on trampolines, not to ride motorcycles. So I've always kind of interpreted that to me. Don't jostle my spine a whole lot, not to jostle myself too much. Now there've been a few instances when I was somewhere like, for example, I was right. I was like four wheel riding the back roads in Arizona. And the guy I was with went down this really bumpy road and I'm literally like hanging onto the truck with, I'm hanging onto the handle, like getting my butt off the seat. We need to get off this road. I can't do this. And getting on an inner tube on the lake. No, that's like a what? No. So there are things that, that kind of accidentally like, Oh, I shouldn't be doing this. This is too much for me. Too much jostling.

SPEAKER_00: 22:19

Yeah. I think some of that is I was thinking about, roller coasters the other day and I know I definitely was riding roller coasters with my kids who are now 23 and 19. I mean I would say the last time was probably it was before 2013 but the thought

SPEAKER_01: 22:34

now my dad took me on a roller coaster I think I was in a body cast and my mom freaked out so so you had a body cast after your surgery yes I've posted a couple pictures on my Instagram but I had a body cast that came to right about my collarbone all the way down to the crease in my hips. And I had an oval cut out for me to breathe, which I didn't realize this until years later when I took singing lessons. But I was probably shallow breathing my entire life until I relearned how to breathe. And in that time, my little boobs grew bigger. And I couldn't wear a bra. It was like really embarrassing. Yeah. So yeah, it was, it felt like being in a, of course in a prison, you know, I couldn't take it off. I couldn't bathe Elizabeth. I had to sit, I had to sit in a really shallow tub and bathe. That's what they told me to do at the hospital. So I could like, you know, and I can kind of get underneath a little bit, but I couldn't like get down in the cast. And so by August, I, you know, living in human, hot human Florida, I began to smell like literally like I, I stunk and there was nothing that could be done about it. It was pretty awful.

SPEAKER_00: 23:55

Yeah. And being that age, I think it would just be even exponentially worse, like awful on steroids because yeah, that's a rough time being in, in, in your body already from like 12 to 15 for so many. And then to throw that on, that was, uh, I mean, I literally found just one picture of a brace, but I could take it off at night while I slept. That's great. And I looked and there might be others at my mother's house, but I only found one. And I don't know that I was never in pictures, but... I, my clothes were like so oversized to try to, it clearly was sticking out way out here, you know, way in. And then I don't know about you, but like, I remember, I can remember the feeling of it sort of like jamming into the, that thigh crease when I sat. Oh

SPEAKER_01: 28:41

yeah. Now one thing I do remember is when I went back to the eighth grade, I was sitting in a lunch table or somewhere with some other people and there was this boy sitting next to me and I looked down and he had his hand on my thigh and but I couldn't feel it because it was cutting off the circulation. And I think about, so now I'm starting to have some issues with numbness in my legs. And I just wonder like how much circulation, how did that affect me at all, all those years ago and sitting down for so many years after, you know, through life.

SPEAKER_00: 29:16

I mean, I've noticed that so much has happened. And I really do think it's with these hormonal changes as I'm 47 heading in and heading into perimenopause towards menopause, sitting in wooden chairs for too long. I didn't have this problem before. Now, I do know in my car, I use that little tush kush to help lift my butt up and there's a hole for the coccyx. Yes. Yes. That has been helpful. And I keep thinking I need to buy an extra just for the house dining room chairs because we do a lot of puzzles at our kitchen table. But it's usually just one side of the body that's more uncomfortable than the other. And I'll feel numbness or I don't know if it's sciatica, but it'll be a strange nerve station.

SPEAKER_01: 30:02

So I was 35 years old, 36, and I was driving cross country from Tucson to back to Florida and all of a sudden my coccyx started to hurt. I'm like, okay, that is my tailbone for sure. So I've, I've had that pain ever since then. So I'm always on the hunt for different cushions and I have, I have them all over my house. Like I, my, I'm going to do a review of my cushions. Um, but my favorite is the cushion lab. Have you seen cushion lab cushions? I'll have to I'll have to do a story about that or something. Um, but they have a cut out for your coccyx. And so I went, I've started out with the, I'm going to call it the toilet seat, the donut hole thing that cut off my circulation that didn't help at all. So I'm always on the hunt for the next greatest thing in cushions. And I love the cushion lab cushion. I keep one in my car. Um, I had a travel one that I lost. I left on a train in England and I bought something kind of like it that I keep on my exercise bike. And then, you know, a great place to find inexpensive ones is TJ Maxx or Marshalls in the travel section. So I've got one that I just kind of like$14. I've started carrying it with me. And if I leave it, I didn't leave a hundred dollar cushion. So that's, A really big one stay in my work, in my office chair, in my car. And then the carry around one is real, like it's a cow pattern. So it's visible. I can see it, you know, and that helps. And then I have a little blow up because I'm going to a concert Wednesday and I'm going to take a little blow up one and put on the seat. But I've only just recently started doing this. But I can tell you for sure that I didn't really have any major pain until I started doing until I went into perimenopause and I was working at a desk job. And that's when I started having pain.

SPEAKER_00: 32:02

And then what was it back pain or leg pain? Because I know, I mean, the women that I work with, it can be like, my mom has a lot of lat, lat, lat pain.

SPEAKER_01: 32:14

It's more, well, it feels like it's, it's low back. It feels like it's from just the pressure of sitting and standing and, Like I can't, I can't sit for long periods. Right now I'm sitting on a ball and I'm moving around, but I can't sit or stand for long periods of time. And also I, I'm going to have to do another post about this, but we had a flood in my house in 2016 and we had like a six month remodeling nightmare going on. And we, we had to take the flooring out of like half of the house. So we, I was just so eager to move back in. And my husband and I were like living in two rooms. We had our kitchen and the living. It was just it was a nightmare. So I did not want to wait for any more flooring. And I didn't want to pick flooring out and think about it. So he just slapped some vinyl sheet flooring over the concrete and just said, you know, we'll deal with it later. So I think it was standing on that concrete in the kitchen floor. for all those years. And I finally just put my gym flooring down on it and it's made such a difference. But I really think that it was, now that I look back on it, it was during 2020, during COVID and lockdown, when suddenly everybody has to be in their kitchen all the time, preparing every single meal and cooking and washing. And I was spending so much time in the kitchen. That's when I finally got an MRI to find out what was going on with my lower spine. So- And what did they

SPEAKER_00: 33:44

find in your lower spine?

SPEAKER_01: 33:45

Well, so I have a little bit of degenerative disc disease. I have spondylolisthesis, when the vertebrae slipped out below the others, and a syrinx, like a little bubble of fluid in my spinal column.

SPEAKER_00: 34:03

And okay, so what are you doing right now as far as staying active and strong to support your clinic?

SPEAKER_01: 34:09

Well... everything kind of changed for me. Like, like I've heard you talk about lockdown was a big, um, a sea change for me and how I dealt with exercise. So for the first year, my husband and I did not bake sourdough bread or reorganize the house. We watched, we watched HBO, we drank wine, we sat on our pet, you know, and I kind of, I'm like, okay, I got to get back in the gym. So, um, It was, I'm ashamed. I'm almost embarrassed to say, but it was like the beginning of 2021. I'm like, okay, still, I'm still not going back in the gym. I've got to start working at home. So I had a weight bench and I had some weights and I knew what to do with the weights. Cause I've been working out since I was 17 years old. But when I tried to like, okay, I have to design a routine for myself. Well, I was following people on Instagram and I, I started seeing some well, Emily at Curva doing Pilates. And I had given up on Pilates because I tried a regular class and it hurt me. And I'm like, OK, I guess I can't do Pilates. Well, anyway, so since 2021, I have I have gorged at the buffet of spinal fusion fitness to the point where like I can't. There's so many options I can't even do. I can't afford or have time to do everything there is to do, which I think is wonderful. So I got into, I started taking classes with Samam Kaya, the yoga studio in New York City for spinal fusions. So I do, I started doing spinal fusion yoga with Jen Gorman. Sometimes I do it with Stacy, Stacy Joyce too. Yeah. I started doing, doing Pilates with Emily at Curva. And I started taking, I signed on with Beth at Strength and Spine, Beth Terranova. And this was the first, and I've also heard you talk about like the importance of doing scoliosis specific exercises. So this was the first time that I'd ever had my fusion and my scoliosis taken into consideration. And Beth said that she thought I just got really out of shape during COVID. So um, she showed me some, I had never done the Pallof press in my life in the gym, but that's one of the things that I learned from Beth. It's like an anti-rotational exercise. It's just so, so anyway, um, I got really into it and I joined a support group. I joined the Samankaya and Twisted Outreach support group. And I've, I've met just about all the teach just about everybody except Teresa, Teresa, but I did order a mace and I, and I have her online program. I'm trying to work through with the mace. So, I mean, I'm just, yeah, I've tried to do it all. And, and, you know, sometimes I have to kind of step back and prioritize things, but that's, that has changed my whole outlook on my whole game. Like before lockdown, I was person who, Worked an office job. I went to a gym that was like really close to me. And I did like 30 minutes on the machines. And then after work, I would go do aqua aerobics. That was what I did before lockdown. Now we have a gym in my house and I have Shroth. Oh, and I started Shroth therapy. I had never heard of Shroth therapy before.

SPEAKER_00: 38:49

Me either. Two years ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 38:52

Yeah. And I'm like, Ooh, what? And I Googled, there's like somebody 10 minutes from my house who does, who is my shot therapist, my physical therapist.

SPEAKER_00: 39:00

Yeah. I feel really lucky. My guys here too, but you know, they're not everywhere. Right. And they don't all work with adults there. I think there are four here and only two of them work with adults, but he has people coming in from all over.

SPEAKER_01: 39:12

Yeah, I bet. My, so my exercise room right now is, um, I have some stall bars and my husband ordered me a reformer from Costco and I have a weight bench and I have an ancient exercise bike that still works.

SPEAKER_00: 39:26

So you're getting to do a little bit of everything. Yeah. And I think that's the other thing. Nowhere along the way did I learn... I mean, I've been active. I've done yoga, Pilates, done the weight training, hiking, a little bit of biking, walking, running, but never... Had I been told that I needed to do scoliosis specific corrective exercises and that it was a progressive, I hate to use the word disease, dis-ease. It's dis-ease in the body.

SPEAKER_01: 40:04

Right. And it's a game changer, isn't it? Yeah. So when I was younger, I think what I was doing in the gym was sufficient. I could cruise on my youth and kind of, you know, getting started early, but we really have to take all this into consideration when we think about exercise and how to move our body.

SPEAKER_00: 40:25

Yeah. And that even certain things that I was potentially doing, twisting was adding to the current rotation that I already had, like potentially making it worse.

SPEAKER_01: 40:36

Yeah. Yeah. When I started doing yoga for scoliosis or yoga for spinal fusions, I thought back on all this. I didn't do yoga till I was 29. And I tried every single kind of class I tried. I tried Kundalini, which I love Kundalini yoga, but I can't really do Kundalini yoga. I can't really. And then I did actually Bikram

SPEAKER_00: 41:01

yoga.

SPEAKER_01: 41:01

And I loved it. But there are so many things. And I guess I thought that adapting mean I'm just going to move my body until I can't move it anymore. And I don't know how much I hurt myself between that. The high impact aerobics, the jumping around and the trying to twist and even kayaking like you're supposed to. I live on a lake sometimes and you're supposed to rotate when you paddle. And I was trying to do I'm going to sell my kayaks now because kayaking isn't really something I need to be doing. Yeah. It just hurts. And why do I want to do things that hurt me?

SPEAKER_00: 41:39

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm like, I don't have a kayak. We'll go like once or twice a year. And I can manage that, you know, hour, I think it was like a three or four hour little stint down the river. But I'm with you if it's like, for me, certain things really, you know, the lower left part of my my back, right, those muscles, the QL, the erectors, they all stay really tight. And whereas the other side on the right, you know, are underactive. And so he's recently given me a new exercise, which I just posted on Instagram, where we're trying to strengthen the multifidi, the multifidus and the psoas on the right and keep the psoas on the left from performing, I guess, not at all, but.

SPEAKER_01: 42:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 42:27

And he claims that will really help with back pain. Like that's what they're seeing. This is, and I guess they're moving away from the word shroth. He said he went up to the scoliosis deal in Boston in February. And they are, so since I've seen him since then, it's the exercises he's given me have, have been much more doable at home without a bunch of props. Okay. As I cannot say that I was doing everything he gave me because I, it was a big setup. Right. You know, you got to do this and put this under this and do this around this, you know? And so I do really like the direction he's moving with what he's offering me, but yeah, my mom's degree, Curvature is 46 degrees right now. She had a friend who whose curvature even wish Roth like she could they'd done all they could for her at 72. She went in and had a I think a Harrington rod put in 72 years old. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 43:37

Harrington rod

SPEAKER_00: 43:38

this. Yeah. Like

SPEAKER_01: 43:41

recently.

SPEAKER_00: 43:41

Yeah. a hair, a Harrington rod recently. Wow. Okay. I mean, I'll have to confirm that, but she has a spinal fusion. Yes. It was almost fine. She gained like two or three inches.

SPEAKER_02: 43:52

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 43:54

Um, so. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 44:00

Yeah. I know people were having them older. I

SPEAKER_00: 44:02

had a friend. 72.

SPEAKER_01: 44:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:05

It just seems like that would be a tough recovery.

SPEAKER_01: 44:08

Yeah. You know, Elizabeth, I'm really hoping that I don't have to have any more surgery. And I find that Facebook scoliosis for older people are a completely different environment than Instagram. I've encountered scoliosis. people online who have had these revision surgeries and I'm really hoping that I never have to have one because I just don't want to go. And I mean, this is kind of an afterthought for me, but I also suffered a really devastating femur break when I was 46 and, um, had to, I was in a wheelchair. Like I, I entered the disability community. Um, and I had to re I've had to relearn to walk twice in my life now, but, um, Yeah, I kind of want to, I don't want to be in the hospital anymore. I've been in the hospital enough, you know, and I just don't want to, I don't want to go back.

SPEAKER_00: 45:03

Do you have osteoporosis or

SPEAKER_01: 45:05

osteopenia? I do. I do. And actually I have something I want to talk to you offline about, but I do. And I was recently diagnosed with, it had crept from osteopenia into osteoporosis and, So this past year, instead of going out and get... If I have to take a drug, I will. But first, I'm going to change my lifestyle. I've been working on changing my lifestyle because I feel like your bones... You got to nourish your bones. There's so many things that I realized that I could have been doing differently when I was younger that could have helped me, like not drinking alcohol, not. Well, I smoked a little bit when I was younger. I don't smoke. I haven't smoked in a long time, but, you know, smoking alcohol. Drinking beer, stuff like that. Diet sodas are not good. I was always a picky eater and I was a vegetarian in my 20s, but I probably did not get enough protein. So I'm super picky about the meat that I eat. I do eat meat now. I eat only fish and it better be organic chicken breast. So an organic turkey breast, but I just don't like beef. I don't like pork and I don't like lamb. So I'm not going to eat that stuff. I will eat beef bone broth though. So I probably didn't get enough protein in the years when I really should have been nourishing my bones. And it really has to start when you're young.

SPEAKER_00: 46:41

That's funny. I also was vegetarian like from like 15 to 27. And then I became un-vegetarian. And now I, we do eat a lot of grass fed beef. I mean, we just bought pounds of grass fed beef from a farmer the other day. I joke and I have these like, you know, we should almost have a Instagram page burgers every day in every way because we eat hamburgers almost every day. And they're slightly different. Maybe they're Greek. Maybe they are just good old American. Maybe, you know, whatever. But, And I'm with you. It would have to be organic chicken or turkey. And then we eat a lot of eggs. And then, you know, I didn't ever love the diet sodas. But you mentioned something. Oh, the alcohol. Oh, my. I don't drink. It's been like half years now. But I mean, I definitely thank you. You know, I mean, alcohol is just I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 47:49

Yeah, it's like smoking. If you're going to smoke and have a spinal fusion, you might as well just give it up right now. Yeah. And, you know, it's really changed my view of things is when I had my leg break, if something happens and you have to have orthopedic surgery, you want your bones strong enough to be able to handle the surgery.

SPEAKER_00: 48:07

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, and that's why I was curious because I know it's more popular. prevalent in those of us with scoliosis. And my mom does have osteoporosis. She's 71 in December. She's not taking any drugs. She's stuck with Pilates. She does some low intensity like dance and posture pump, all these little weight classes and forth. And now she's seeing a Shroff practitioner too. That's all new. And she's seeing someone specific for osteoporosis and she's got some exercises to work her posterior chain. Okay. So lots of airplanes, but again, very specific to her curve. And I think she did vitamin D and I don't know what supplements she took. Yeah. You know, you don't, I mean, I've heard really, a lot of horror stories around the medications they want to give.

SPEAKER_01: 49:08

I have two and I, yeah. So the, uh, I believe they're called the anti-resorptives that stop the process of, of the osteoclasts breaking down the bone and you just have like bone, like dead osteoclasts hanging out in your bones. That's what makes them dense, but it doesn't, Like, it makes them chalky. Like, you can have an atypical femur fracture where the femur just breaks in half, which is harder to repair. And then I've had so much dental work that the last thing I need is osteonecrosis of the jaw. So, yeah, I'm... And I met with somebody about hormone replacement therapy, and I did not pull the trigger yet. So I have my concerns about that. I know that that's the new thing now, you know, is hormone replacement therapy.

SPEAKER_00: 50:07

Yeah, I don't know where I stand on that one either yet. I've listened, being 47, I'm listening to a lot to try to, you know, but I haven't come to a place where I am aware. for it one way or another i think ultimately right it's a personal decision but i'm not sure

SPEAKER_01: 50:22

yeah um you know what's really helped me calm my calm down a little bit is i quit following these physician influencers because it's like you have to have you have to jump and you have to wear a weighted vest and you have to shake like okay i just don't want to hear this right okay i i get it i bought your book i know but I don't know. You know, I have questions about having a spinal fusion, having spondylolisthesis. Should I wear a weighted vest? I don't know. I think the big gut I have is enough because I've gained like I'm like 40 pounds overweight. So I think my gut is the weighted vest. Thank you very much. I'm not going to be wearing another weighted vest. Yeah. And I have questions about hormone replacement therapy. I don't know if that's. something i want to do i mean go ahead yeah well i don't know i don't know you know and i have a doctor's appointment in um next month and i have to get my pt orders renewed so i know i'm gonna probably get fussed out for not getting on a drug but Let me tell you, my dad was a physician. He was an osteopathic physician. So he did osteopathic manipulation, but he also did drugs. I've been having doctors shove drugs down my throat all my life. And I finally decided to quit taking pharmaceutical drugs. I was on a... This is another thing that people need to know, is if a doctor puts you on a drug, you really need to research the... the uh effects of it because i was on a proton pump and i was on a drug for um gastro in gastro uh

SPEAKER_00: 52:18

issues it was called

SPEAKER_01: 52:18

pantoprazole

SPEAKER_00: 52:20

okay

SPEAKER_01: 52:21

and um i was having problems swallowing and my physician put me a different doctor put me on this drug So I did this was before I looked up the drug. This is before I started doing my research. Now I do my research and it can cause bone loss. So that's when I slid from osteopenia into osteoporosis. So I quit taking that drug. And I yeah, I'm not taking any drugs right now except for supplements. And I'm trying to get that kind of tightened up, too, because. I was taking too many supplements and I'm trying to eat my vitamins now. I'm trying to eat as much as I can and not take supplements and only take the supplements that I need to take. So that's kind of the journey that I'm on right now.

SPEAKER_00: 53:05

Yeah. And I hear you. You don't want to literally switch from supplements. pharmaceuticals to supplements, right? You don't have to rely on either. I don't want to rely on either. I do take supplements too, but I don't want to have to rely on either. And I do want to be able to get those nutrients from food. I know that, you know, digestion issues also are very common with us with scoliosis. I'm sure it's common for a lot of people today. We eat too fast. We're too rushed. We're not, we're not calm when we're eating. So we're not entering rest and digest. So there's a whole, a bunch of things to consider when you're having digestive troubles. I also know there's a connection between lack of stomach acid and osteoporosis. So if you don't have enough stomach acid, you could be eating the best diet possible. possible. And the nutrients aren't getting to where they need to go. So it's not just what you eat, but it's what you actually convert, absorb and assimilate.

SPEAKER_01: 54:10

Right. And you know, when I was younger, gut health was not a thing. Like in the 90s, it was all about fat free and cardio. Like I'm seeing now the millennials like we were we were raised on cardio and no fat, you know, Gut health was not a thing. So yeah, if you can't digest your nutrients, they're not going to help you. Right. So that's another thing that I'm on is trying to improve my gut health.

SPEAKER_00: 54:33

Yeah. Yeah. I know it's, it can feel like a lot, but if you can tackle it with baby steps.

SPEAKER_01: 54:41

Well, one tool that I have that I did learn from an Instagram influencer is the chronometer app. I have that too.

SPEAKER_00: 54:49

I do

SPEAKER_01: 54:50

have that. Okay. So I got the premium version of it. And because it's very granular. So I try to see what I'm doing, what certain meals that I make that really, you know, hit a lot of the categories and bone health that I need to get all except for vitamin D. So that we can get from sunlight. But yeah, and that's really been useful to me. I've started using blackstrap molasses in my tea and just trying to chip away getting the calcium from So that by the end of the day, I've got like 75 percent. And I don't I'm not I don't hit it every day when I'm traveling. I don't hit it at all. But that's what I'm focusing on right now is making my own meals and really trying to make them be as nutritious as I can get them.

SPEAKER_00: 55:44

Something that I also heard the other day, just listening to various experts. menopause, perimenopause podcasts with different physicians and it can become overwhelming. You don't know. It is. Which is where I think like, ultimately we have to really hone in on our intuition and go with what feels right for us. And I think that's the most important part. So, you know, you know, okay, just because somebody's saying this, this works for them or that you need to sit with yourself and take a moment, maybe, you know, meditate for a moment, a few mindful breaths and figure out, does it feel right for me? But this woman and I, I, I do have, I bought this back in September. was the vibration plate. And what this gal, Dr. Mindy Pelz was saying, and I can share, I'll share a link in the show notes of the studies that it actually helps the micro vibrations help the bones hang on to the calcium and phosphorus or something similar to that. And so I'm like, I'll include that in the show notes, just so the audience has scientific reference to this. Um, But it's also just good for lymphatic drainage and it's good for developing balance. It's good for circulation. It's, you know, I mean, I like it. I don't stand on it every day. Yeah, I have one too. It's great for pain relief.

SPEAKER_01: 57:13

I have one. I don't stand on it every day. I'm a little bit wary of it, but I do use it. And, you know, another form of vibration is sound. Oh, yeah, yeah. And that is kind of what I am into. But, but another thing that I have right here, I don't have, it's not true, but I have this like massive, um, massage gun I've gotten for a long time and I have osteoporosis in my wrist. So I just put it on my wrist. Oh, nice. And get the vibration on my, on my wrist that way. So, um,

SPEAKER_00: 57:47

so yeah, the sound, I know we were talking before because I know that you have, um, your, your spine, your spinal fusion, your Instagram handle is Gen X Spinal Fusion and definitely bringing awareness to scoliosis and living with scoliosis and the journey as you, you know, age with grace, you know, and helping people, you know, move forward on their own journey, right? You know, even inspire people others to start some of this stuff earlier than we did. I mean, I know that like I have some young girls and no, no, they don't want to do this work. I get it. I wouldn't 16 or 17 too. And you just want to be like, I know do it now. If,

SPEAKER_01: 58:36

if I could have sat on a cushion from the get go, I don't know. My body might feel different now. I don't know. You know, um, That's one of the things I encourage younger people to do is don't worry about trying to fit in. Be comfortable. Don't be uncomfortable. We spend enough. You're going to spend the rest of your life being uncomfortable in a spine that doesn't move. And sometimes I am very uncomfortable. So if there's something you can do to make yourself comfortable, do it. Don't worry about what other people. One of the things I've gotten older that I've realized is like people aren't really thinking about you as much as you think they are, and they don't care. So just do what you want to do. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 59:23

they don't. They're too busy thinking. thinking about, especially in the adolescent years themselves, they are right at you. Now they might go home and talk to their friend, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, but in the scheme of things, they're not thinking about you.

SPEAKER_02: 59:36

And it's hard to get that message across because you think they are, you think all eyes are on you and they just aren't.

SPEAKER_00: 59:43

So the sound, I know that's what we, you mentioned that you were getting into this and you were obtaining a sound therapy certification. Yeah. So I,

SPEAKER_01: 59:52

I first, my first exposure to a sound bath was in 2015 when my husband and I went to this spa in California and they have a yoga dome and we did a sound bath in there. I'm like, wow. So I would do the sound bath when I... I've been there two or three times. I haven't been in a few years. But there's somebody locally who does sound baths. So I've started going to one once a month. And I went to a special retreat that she did with a couple of... And breath work too. And I just decided to get myself some crystal singing bowls. And then one day I was scrolling Instagram and I saw this ad about... a sound healing training in Tucson. So that's where I went to massage school. Tucson is where I learned all where I experienced all different kinds of alternative treatments. When I was, I went, I got rolled. I did all, I all kind of past life regression, Phoenix rising yoga therapy, all kinds of different things I experimented with. So I just walked into the living room and I told my husband, I'm going to Tucson. So I went and took a workshop. And I mean, I could probably take the test right now, but I want to read more. I want to read the entire manual and then take the test. But anyway, so what I'm really most attracted to are the metal instruments. So the tuning forks and the Tibetan bowls and a gong. Now, I know there's got to be some big vibration coming out of a gong, right? So, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:27

Well, let me tell you. So we have been, another gal and I, she's a biofeedback practitioner. Her name is Robin Alexovich. She's, I don't know which episode, but we talk about, we go into that a little bit of sound bowl therapy, but she, her friend was, I don't know. I think she was over in Tibet. I've heard the story a gazillion times and then, but they found all these Tibetan hand forged bowls. And so once a month we have, a sound bath, but it's somewhat hands-on. So everybody gets to experience the bowl and try to play the bowl themselves before we end with a sound bath. And then I do a little bit of fascial work with them. So it's a little bit of movement, a little bit of breath work, and then sound bowls. And then she most recently acquired a gong.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:19

Nice.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:21

Now we went... My significant other, we went to a breath work and sound bath journey. I don't know, whatever you want to call it, about, I don't know, like six or eight, maybe six or eight weeks ago. We've done maybe twice together, and then I've gone to several different breath works and some other sound baths. But it was a small group of us, but he had an incredibly powerful experience for me. when he hit the gong and it was a very specific gong because he had three okay and you know lots of visuals and it like all this stuff was going on but he wasn't quite having that experience until that man hit the gong it was unbelievable i

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:11

my cranios one of my i have two now um one of my craniosacral therapists was telling me he went to a gong bath And he had this ache in his shoulder that he'd had for a while, and it really started hurting while his friend was playing the gong. And then it quit hurting, and it hasn't bothered him since then. So, I mean, I don't know how it works, but I think that it does. I think it would be measured scientifically, too.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:38

Yeah, I mean, you saw the vibrations. And I think Robin, she talks about the science between, you know, like those who are undergoing cancer treatment who have sound vision. experiences fare better than those undergoing cancer treatments without the sound, right? Scientifically, right? These vibrations, I mean, you know, are going into the body and making changes on such a subtle level, energetically and physically. Yep. Those sound waves that, you know, I very much thought about, you know, with the sound bowl and, because I have three of them and I too am interested the tuning forks I had another gal from California who we spoke about tuning forks Linda Floor I can't remember that might have been April maybe it was March but I'm fascinated I just love all things holistic

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:37

me too

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:38

and you know I haven't golly I haven't been on pharmaceuticals I mean, you know, like, I don't know when the last time I took an antibiotic was. Before my kids were born, before my son was born. And he's 23. He's repeated, you know, sinus infections. And I do think it's so important that you look at some of the side effects of the drugs that you are taking. And there's a website called Mydavin, M-Y-V-A-T-I-N.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:14

Not all drugs are in there, but if you go in there, it'll tell you specifically what nutrients or what vitamins and minerals that drug is depleting you of. Okay. So like the birth control pill depletes you of B6. Well, you need B6 to make serotonin. And so you have this thing going on. All right. So you have women who take the birth control pill for a number of years, many years. They're starved of B6. And then they wonder why they're going on antidepressants after they go off the pill. So- And

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:45

that's a little bit like what I'm envisioning the hormone HRT is because I took birth control pills for a year now. And I'm not you know, I have one foot in womb and one foot in science. I do. You know, and sometimes we need these drugs. I'm a doctor's daughter. We need our drugs. We do need drugs. But yeah. So I took birth control pills for a year. And I quit because I'm like, number one, my body is, looks, it's affecting my body. I'm paying for it. I'm getting screwed twice here. So I just, I decided not to take them anymore. I'm super, I was super, super careful about birth control because my dad, let me watch him deliver a baby when I was like 13. So it was like a scared straight experience for me. So I was like super, super careful. And what I, and the methods that I employed worked. So I did, you know, but yeah. So I'm kind of like, is this going to be like birth control where I'm taking hormones again? And what is it going to do to my voice and to my, I don't know, you know, so I'm skeptical. I'd rather just do seed cycling and see if that can,

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:00

you

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:01

know, help or not. It's not going to hurt me. It's not going to hurt. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:06

Yeah, I know that Dr. Mindy Pelz, I think she wrote a book, Fast Like a Girl and Eat Like a Girl. I have neither, but I definitely would. And she talks about some sort of the way you're eating, like how are you eating based on what's going on. And I think, yeah, I just, those that I know that I seem to have taken the HRT route, it seems like they're always going in to have things readjusted. Okay. Yeah. Does that make sense? And so we're always having to balance something. Okay. Now we're going to add an estrogen patch. Now we're going to take a little bit of this. I'm going to do a little bit of that. And it's, it's not like you go in once and they establish your baseline and then they never change that. And it, it, it, um, I just, I'm just not sold on it yet. Maybe I will. I

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:55

went to a meeting. I had one meeting with the nurse practitioner, um, before I could even see the doctor who would administer them. And, um, It just made me go, okay, I need to learn so much more about this. I'm not going to put any more drugs in my body until I have more knowledge. I'm never just going to unquestionably do something again without questioning it. Another thing to think about is that I don't know if you... I was going to say first, I don't know how we are on time, but I didn't realize until Meredith Bionic Ballerina did her post about how Your pain levels can fluctuate with your menstrual cycle. And I'm sure that happened with me when I was in my fertile years, you know. So there's that to think about, too. You know, we're always in a state of flux. There are these shields you can get, apparently, that protect your hips, right? If you fall, you put them in your underwear, and you have to buy special underwear to wear them, but they shield your hip joints from breaks. I would rather make lifestyle changes, level up my nutrition and my exercise, and fall-proof my house, and that might have to be good enough. And I'm 60. I've only got another 20 years to go. I mean, it could be 30. it could be 30. I hope not,

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:23

but

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:23

yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:24

Yeah. I know my mom just put in a walk-in, you know, one of those walk-in showers, like she took that out. It's completely level with her bathroom floor. So you can just walk right in and the door would be, and that shower would be able to house a wheelchair if needed. But you know, the way the whole thing opens, there's no risk of tripping or falling because that floor from the bathroom floor into the shower is completely level.

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:50

Yeah, I mean, I think we're just going to fall. We're going to fall no matter what we do, really. So it's also the question of how strong your bones are, what the quality of them is. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:00

and you've got to have the musculature for that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:10:02

Right, which I do. And then when I had my leg break, the surgeon, so on one of my checkups, the surgeon came in, said, I want to know where you buy your groceries. And I'm like, well, Whole Foods. Why? It's because you're putting on bone, like you're just putting down bone like that. I'm going to listen to my inner wisdom about my bones. Thank y'all very much and continue to learn and educate myself, but I'm not going to just, I don't know. I'm just stubborn, I guess.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:35

I don't think it's, I don't think it's stubborn. I think it's just, you know, you, again, I think we hand too much over to others and that, you know, that really is like, we know how, us best. And I think over years, you know, we, we don't always trust our intuition, but once we get in tune with that. Yeah. Also think it's really one of the great things about sound bowl healing is that, you know, you are going into a really still state. You're relaxing the nervous system. I don't know about you, you know, you get insights of wisdom in from those spaces. And, you know, when you tune out all that chatter and, you can better hear that inner wisdom.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:20

Right. Yeah. So that's, hopefully I'll be able to offer that to people. I only practiced massage for seven years. It was really hard a month. So you're still doing massage, but you do other things too, right? I

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:34

do. I don't do as much massage and it's interesting. So I try to actually stack some of my podcast interviews on the same days. Okay. For you, I was talking with a gal who was having a lot of stuff in her wrist and hands. And in our conversation, we talked about the importance of listening to the body. And I do believe, like you said, you were having sacroiliac joint issues. Yes. I think our body will tell us what we are and are not supposed to do if we are listening. Yes. And

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:11

I've always listened. I remember when I was like 14, I would come home from ninth grade. Maybe I was 15 by then, but I had my cast on. And it wasn't until I went to the support group and I started having some of my memories come back to me. And I would go home. I was really tired. Maybe I had a little at school that was legal now, but back then was not, which was actually... probably one of the best things I could have done for myself back then. But I would come home and my favorite, it's been a long journey from Kiss to the Tibetan singing bowls and gongs, but I got there. But at the time, Journey was my favorite band and I would put on this Journey album and just like, and I would lie down on my bed and put my knees up and just listen to Journey and sing because I was working my lungs out. But I realized that I was doing Shavasana. I didn't even know I was doing it. Right. So I've always listened to my body and that and my body likes to be like now that I don't have to work an office job. I spend my time either standing up or reclining. I'm like this all day. Very rarely in my sitting. I'm upright or I'm reclining. Yeah, sitting is the worst. It is the worst. It is the worst.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:28

It really is. And well, even like if I'm sitting on the couch, it's really just one leg. Like certain, I can only do it for so long before I have to extend. I have to. And sometimes I have to elevate, actually. It just depends. It must be the way the femur sits in there. I'm not sure. But something about, yeah, the flexion at the hip. It's just too much.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:54

My doctor, my surgeon who did my repair of my femur said that he wanted me to be out of work for six months and he knew that wasn't feasible. But I went back to work and I really regret that I did because I just sat in my wheelchair at my desk for eight hours a day, cutting off the circulation of my healing leg. I'm cutting off my circulation when I'm sitting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:20

Well, that's what I feel like even with this, I'm cutting off circulation.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:24

Yeah. But I mean, you can, you can move, you have

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:27

the, I can move, but yeah, like, like right now my legs are crossed and I feel some discomfort, like from, from my knee down. So the nerve issue from my knee down to my right foot. Um, but if I'm straight walking or laying, yeah, it like instantly, um, I can find relief, but

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:49

that's what I do all day. Just go up. And I really don't have a whole lot of pain, which is awesome. Unless I'm doing something for too, too long a period of time.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:59

Yeah. And I

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:59

still do try. I solo travel the world by myself. Well, not the world, but I travel for three months in 2023 solo by myself all over England and France. And I still do things that I want to do. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:15

Yeah, well, that's awesome. I one last thing I know, because I want to honor your time. And I want to make sure everybody can find you. I know we said Gen X spinal fusion, but you also mentioned and then you might be offering sound bowl healing soon, potentially. It might be a little ways off. But finally, you did mention that you had started a sub stack.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:37

Yes, I started a sub stack just because I was part of a Fusion Forum this November that you can find on the Twisted Outreach Project YouTube channel. And I was kind of telling my story and I was trying to write it and I realized, wow, I can't fit all this into 15 minutes. So I started making posts about my journey and some other just things. So I have one post there right now. But I plan on posting more there and that kind of thing. One thing that I really quick I really feel like this community needs some help with getting, must find the right massage therapist, Elizabeth, because I'm hearing so many troubling things about how they don't a lot, not a lot of massage therapists know how to work on scoliotic fused bodies and just how do you find that person? So that's what I want to help other people with, you know, because I want them to love it as much as I, and be helped as much as I've been helped.

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:39

Yeah. Um, Yeah, I mean, I could keep going. Really quick, one more thing. Do you get a lot of body work?

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:50

I do. So I get craniosacral therapy. and massage and I can go for a little while without it but I try to get one you know one massage a month one cranial treatment a month now I found this new massage therapist who's into these new energy work things that I'm that one is called vortex energy healing and something that he did to me last week that it's Taoist it's it works on your nervous system and When I got off the table, I was so dizzy. And then like that, the next day I was so tired. So that had to have been working on me. So yeah, I like to try new things. I'm open to pretty much anything. I just want to, I want to try it out because you never know what's going to help you. We don't get any, we don't get an instruction manual with our few spines. When we leave the hospital, we just have to go figure it out. So I'm pretty much open to anything. I want to, I want to see what effect it has on me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:49

Yeah. I think it's hard when people ask me, I'm like, well, I don't know. You know, you have got to, it's really a lot of times it's trial and error. It

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:56

is trial

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:57

and error. You can read every piece of scientific literature, this, that, and the other, but until you try it and have your own experience, I don't really care what everyone says

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:09

because Right. Yeah. And I want to come, I'll come see you and I want to find out about the special stretch therapy too. So maybe I'll do a little tour of, you know, the Southeast states and I'll go hit, I'll go see Allie and I'll go see

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:23

Stacy. She's in Nashville, I think. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:26

And she's in Franklin, Tennessee and, I

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:29

have my route planned. Yeah, because that's not far from me. I've realized that she was very close to me just the other day. I'm like, oh, you're close to me. Okay. It's like a three-hour drive. But to me, that's very doable.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:41

Yeah, that is doable. Maybe that'll be my next solo

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:43

trip. Yeah, well, maybe I'll meet you there. Yeah, there you go. Well, thank you so much for joining me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:50

Thank you. I could talk to you for hours, obviously. Thank you for having me on your podcast. It's, it's an honor.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:57

Yeah. Thank you so much for joining me. I think it's been great. Yes. And we definitely, I know because again, the journey is so different. I just don't have that many people, you know, other than really, then I met through, through social media. So I'm really grateful for that.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:12

Yeah. And to be in a room with other people, the smile fusion is pretty amazing. Okay. Well, cool. All right, thanks again. Thank you.