Training for the Bedroom: It's Not What You Think featuring Dr. Peter Swanz

In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Peter Swanz for a powerful conversation about polarity -- the timeless dance between the masculine and feminine energies.  Together, we move beyond surface-level ideas or gender-based roles to uncover the deeper essence of what these words truly. mean.  

What does it look like to embody the unapologetic divine masculine? 

What qualities define the unapologetic divine feminine? 

How do we recognize, cultivate, and express these energies within ourselves, regardless of gender? How do we bring these into relationship with others? 

Dr. Swanz and I explore the ways these forces shape our relationships, our sense of self, and the way we show up in the world.  We talk about the importance of balance, the beauty of polarity, and why embracing both masculine and feminine energies is essential for wholeness, growth, and authentic connection.  

Dr. Peter V Swanz IV is a naturopathic physician, holistic health coach, and stand-up comic. He created Training for the Bedroom to help men reclaim their energy, build real strength, and create deep polarity in their relationships.  Blending healing, humor and heart,  he's passionate about guiding both men and women to transform their health, their relationships, and their lives -- in and out of the bedroom.  His first book, "Training for the Bedroom", will be publi

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 1:19

Welcome back to today's episode of Unapologetic Living. I am Elizabeth Elliott. I'm your hostess. I'm excited to have Dr. Peter Swans. He's a naturopathic physician back on the show. Welcome.

SPEAKER_02: 1:31

Hey, Elizabeth. I'm very glad to be here. Thanks.

SPEAKER_00: 1:34

Oh, good. So I know the last time that we spoke and had a conversation was about, we really delved into homeopathy and how you treat folks individually using homeopathic medicine and also other modalities as well. But since then, I have noticed, and it might be a completely new Instagram page, maybe it was already up there when we were speaking, I'm not sure, but called Training for the bedroom?

SPEAKER_02: 2:15

Yeah, correct, correct.

SPEAKER_00: 2:18

And I also started to catch some of those live clips when you are talking about masculine and feminine and then polarity, how important that is for, I mean, I would say maintaining or sustaining a relationship.

UNKNOWN: 2:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 2:39

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So I appreciate you inviting me on to come and talk about this. And it's something that has been part of my own personal journey, my own personal health journey, my relationship journey, you know, part of my professional journey and training for the bedroom. It's actually a book. It's a book that I have been writing over the last few years And I decided because I had about 60,000 words, you know, which is a lot of content for a self-help book. And I I wanted I needed to get into editing it, you know, fine tuning the flow of the information, removing redundancies. And I just wasn't doing it like I should have. I'm someone who can put things off and do them at the last minute. And so I decided a couple months ago, and it might have been back in May, and I'm not sure if it was live yet, but I had this inkling. I was like, you should put Trading for the Bedroom on YouTube and Instagram. And then recently, I just went over to TikTok for the first time. I was resistant to being on TikTok at all. And then I was like, maybe I should do it if I'm going to sell this. And I'd already created content that I could sort of repurpose over there. But I thought, I'm going to go live on social media and start putting out content for this book and try to build an audience for this book and see if I can get people excited about this book before I officially get it published, which is something I want to do at the beginning of next year. That's my hope. Since I went live with that, I've been re-reading and editing my chapters and I've been sharing them with a few buddies of mine to kind of read through and get some other eyes on it right now and I've really enjoyed creating the content and then putting it out into the social media realm and I've been a little surprised I guess about the number of people that have directly reached out to me men and women and been like thank you like keep doing this like this resonates this this is this seems like something you should be saying or sharing you know so I'm really grateful for that feedback and I'm excited about it

SPEAKER_00: 5:16

so okay so you've mentioned the last few years and I am with the individuals who are directly messaging you or commenting on your post in that I think this information is imperative actually for the collective consciousness and the growth of the collective

SPEAKER_01: 5:37

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 5:38

I think I know just for me in a now almost soon to be five-year relationship, so much of the information and insight and wisdom shared could have helped me in prior relationships. And when I go back and look through this lens, I can see where... I fucked up.

SPEAKER_01: 6:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:07

Right. And I don't I mean, I don't I don't want to I don't really want to say that I fucked up. Right. Or that anybody's fucking up in their relationship or screwing up, whatever. But, you know, I think what society has kind of taught us along the way is. about, you know, the masculine and the feminine and how much of that has been almost, golly, I don't know. I feel at this point now I was misinformed.

SPEAKER_01: 6:36

Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 6:37

Agreed. Yes. And, and that is going to, and it's still taking some untangling to do. I mean, there's so much untangling, like even, like I have to like check myself sometimes. And, and so in the, in just the last, five years, Polarity, David Day does work, Alison Armstrong's book, The Queen's Code and Keep the Kingdom. They're just really new for me. And so, you know, when you are bringing it to light, I feel like there's no way there are not other women that resonate and men.

SPEAKER_01: 7:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 7:17

But I also think, again, you have to be willing to unlearn And not every individual is ready for this information because it's so outside, even outside the paradigm of what society has been teaching or culturally we've been taught all this time.

SPEAKER_02: 7:41

Yeah, I agree. I agree completely. And it's so relevant and pertinent to our intimate relationships, but it's also important information just as an individual to understand. And, you know, that's something that I realized in my practice dealing with patients that I was able to, even somebody who was a single male or female coming to work with me, you know, often they're interested in pursuing relationships. They've had relationships that have worked and then not worked for periods of time. And they're dealing with their own emotional wounds and stories around that. And that's the feminine, right? All of us have a feminine and a masculine aspect. And it's not male. It's not female. It's not a gender thing. It's yin and yang from a Chinese medical perspective. And so helping people to kind of understand this like hey your your emotional body is your feminine body and it's juicy and it flows and it's the weather and some days it's you feel like it's storming and raining on you and other days it's a blue sky sunny day and then helping people to see again especially when they're on their own how they're trying to balance their own polarity with certain practices practices certain behaviors that maybe actually aren't the most effective way, you know, aren't the most valuable way for them to care for themselves, for them to balance their polarity, for them to, you know, create some structure in a safety in a container, because now we're talking about the masculine for that feminine emotional energy. And so being able to look at it from like the individual, it's And then hopefully those people can apply that in their own life individually and then carry it forward into the relationships. Because I think our relationships are intimate relationships. And this is not just like romantic, but our close friends, our family members. I mean, those relationships are opportunities for growth. I mean, they just provide training ground, practice day. opportunities to get things wrong over and over again and then start to do it right and I'm absolutely sharing from my own personal experiences you know twice divorced right like I am I'm owning it and I I joke a lot in like relationship stuff you know that I I'm a recovering codependent nice guy and like those things don't work in relationships not the way that I want to show up, not in the kind of relationship I want to have and not with the kind of, you know, partners that I want to have in my life. And so it, you know, really for me, the journey started back in my first marriage. And when that relationship was, you know, initially on the rocks and started reading books about males and females and intimacy and dynamics and communication tactics. And I am a reader. And I do a good job synthesizing and remembering information and then sort of, you know, repackaging it or pulling it together. And so that's been my own journey was just exploring this for me. And, you know, part of it comes from the nice guy, me, that honestly, for a long time thought my purpose was to be better than my dad as a father and as a husband in relationships and so that was you know like that felt like that was what I focused on as long as I'm doing better than my dad did I'm doing okay you know and that's absolutely not my purpose and the bar was set pretty low by my dad I love my dad you know grateful for the lessons that I have from him but that you know I should absolutely aspire to more but I should do do it for me and for the right reasons, not because I wanted to prove to my mom that I'm better than, you know, the husband she picked for herself was.

SPEAKER_00: 12:21

Yeah. And I know I've spoken to a couple other gentlemen on various episodes and past episodes. I know the one fella, you know, just said, I think there's a book called No More Mr. Nice Guy. It

SPEAKER_02: 12:36

is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 12:37

Yeah. And I haven't read it myself. It's on my list along with other things. But you know i i mean i too would be i i could fall into that same category of what you used were codependent mr nice guy i mean i can you know i i i guess maybe i don't know maybe it's the film i could i could swing maybe both ways i was on the pendulum there right but um either it's either like codependent or or what what would i know there was a one book i read um called uh Flight from Intimacy. Did you read that one? I

SPEAKER_02: 13:14

don't. I have not read that one.

SPEAKER_00: 13:16

Well, instead of the word narcissist, that author uses codependent. It's not always narcissist, is it? And counterdependent. And how they will attract one another really because they both know the other cannot offer intimacy.

SPEAKER_02: 13:39

Right? Right. Right. Well, I heard someone say, you know, like, oh, a healthy relationship is not codependent. It's intra-dependent. I-N-T-R-A. And I like I can get I can buy that. Like, yeah, I mean, it's you know, that's why we would choose to have a partner in our life, because we lift each other up. You know, we makes it better. It gives us, again, these opportunities to to look at ourselves, to have a mirror reflecting back. on us um and you know it's it is an important thing no more mr nice guy is a book by rob dr robert glover and i i highly recommend it i was actually working with a men's coach named karen brody and she's the author of a book called open her which talks about um i think she has seven sort of male archetypes in there and she talks about these different ways archetypes and they how they can react interact with with women in the feminine and I had listened I had you know read listen to her book and then I reached out with her and I did some private you know some one-on-one coaching with her for like six months and I was extremely grateful for that and she mentioned the no more mr. nice guy book to me she said she was like Peter like you don't check all these boxes but if you haven't read no more mr. I think you would appreciate it. And that suggestion alone was worth every penny that I paid her. And it was significant because I invest in myself and my health and my relationships, you know, and I want coaching and support and people to help hold me accountable. So that book, No More Mr. Nice Guy, was fantastic. And Robert Glover has worked with David Data. And, you know, John Wineland and these other people within the community. And a lot of times, I mean, we're talking about some of the same energies. We're just using slightly different words to kind of talk about what's happening here.

SPEAKER_00: 17:46

Yeah. So, you know, and when, you know, some might hear No More Mr. Nice Guy, but we want a nice guy. Well, you do, right? However, you don't want, I mean, really the No More Mr. or nice guy, the traits of your codependent would be what? People pleaser, fawner, what else would you say? I mean, someone who's just, I don't, not necessarily a doormat, but sort of becomes like whatever you want. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02: 18:12

it's, it's, yeah, it's a, well, I think nice, you know, be nice, be nice. That's what we tell everybody. And it's not that you need to be nice. We can be kind. You can be kind and put up a boundary, right? Like, but when we're nice it's almost like well I can't have any boundaries because I don't want to hurt anybody else so I can't the nice guy they they're not really nice is the problem you know and so one of the things he talks about and I'm guilty of this is covert contracts so again it's this idea that I'm going to be really nice and I'm going to try to meet all of these needs for you with this unspoken expectation that you'll meet my needs and I don't have to ask for them because I don't want to feel selfish and I don't want to feel like I'm a toxic man who is demanding or wanting something that makes someone else feel uncomfortable or whatever so like the nice guy is not nice it's they play around with these covert contracts and you know they're often giving to get right and and especially the in relationships. You know, I mean, I still think I'm an Nice. I genuinely want to make the world a better place, a healthier place, a happier place. I want to make relationships place. But without a doubt, I've been in relationships with unspoken expectations. I've made passive aggressive comments because my feelings were hurt. I'm not able to, you know, I've not been able to ask for things directly that I should have been able to ask for. And all of these, you know, the relationships and the books and then the practice like that how we start to change what we're doing and what's not working.

SPEAKER_00: 20:09

Now, do you feel, I mean, speaking, I mean, you're, you're a man, I'm a woman. Um, and do you feel that, do you, do you find that men have a harder time asking for their needs to be met or being able to access what those needs really are? Because yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:32

Yeah. Yeah. It's a hundred percent. I literally, just like listened to an Esther Perel like two minute quote and I love Esther Perel yeah she's so fantastic and she was talking about this specifically and she she gave this example she said you know there's often women will make a statement like well he only wants sex and she was just like that's so untrue she's like men have so many needs for intercourse and connection and acceptance and physical touch. And today in society, so many men either don't have the vocabulary, the self-awareness, or they don't, honestly don't feel safe or sure how to ask and express for those needs. And then sex becomes this sort of like space holder that creates all of those for the guy. And so it looks like the guy, oh, he just wants to want sex or he just wants to be with me for sex, but that's not it at all. It's just that that's the way that's safe for guys to get those needs met. I can share an example if it's okay. I had a girlfriend who made me start spending time snuggling with her and staying in bed when we were intimate and not you know just like hey let's get up and yeah like you know

SPEAKER_00: 22:17

she made you stay for the oxytocin

SPEAKER_02: 22:20

yeah but the thing is I was starving for that like I needed it so bad like I didn't know that I needed this and and I worked through this so I went into this and myself and I'm like why you know what is this where does this come from and I love my mom you know, I have a wonderful mom. She sacrificed so much for me and my brother and sister when we were kids. And, you know, she raised us as a single parent and she forego, she, you know, forego dating and relationships. She's never remarried because she, you know, prioritized us kids. Now, I don't think, you know, we didn't get to then see what a healthy relationship could look like, but we had a mom who was always attentive to us. I was the oldest and, you know, I experienced some of my mom's love as needy. I was the oldest. She often was looking to me to validate her and to tell her she was doing a good job in ways that a partner might have. I think there was a part of me, again, none of this was conscious, but I was a little resentful to that in a way. My mom is very physically affectionate. I was extremely push off to that with her and like my brother is much more physically affectionate with my mom but I think for me I was like look I can show up on time make good grades you know cut the grass I can do my responsibilities but I'm not here to meet your physical need for affection you know and then and you're telling me stuff about what I should be doing with the women I'm dating and you know so I'm pulling off this in and so I think there was a part of me that was again afraid to be needy for that kind of affection that kind of just being held and intimacy and just the nervous system relaxing you know and so I'm so grateful to that woman who really helped me you know become aware of that and now I'm I can even be more affectionate with my mom in ways you know that that I wasn't

SPEAKER_00: 24:40

Yeah, it's funny how I don't know. And I, because I've read a lot on relationships, too. And, you know, you wonder, okay, why do you attract certain individuals into your life? Right? For what reason? And, you know, there's various theories, some just think whatever. Others, you know, suggest that you attract, you know, the parent you have the most healing to do with, right? I mean, there's so many different theories. And if I look at the men that I've attracted into my They definitely, I would say, carry traits similar to my father in many ways. And so there's definitely been healing work to do. And I have also become much more aware of where maybe there is a connection to something that I happens in current relationship or one of one of the other relationships it really wouldn't matter that really the original trigger has nothing to do with them and everything to do with a past experience and it's just resurfacing whatever is going on in my nervous system is resurfacing and then all of a sudden you know

SPEAKER_02: 29:00

yes and that's such a crucial awareness I mean almost always you know almost always whatever hard troubles are resistant you know the roadblocks we're bumping into today we are absolutely carrying the remnants from our past and our past wounds and our past hurts and you know I was with one woman and this was a good red flag for me to see you know when she said oh I've worked through all my childhood stuff like bing bing bing that is a problem if you think that because now go forward every problem that we encounter is now going to be about me or every problem you have about me you're going to think it's 100% because of something I just did or have done while you're completely discrediting that child part of you that didn't get a need met in the way that felt good or felt right and you know has struggled and has had that come up and again I think people can work through their childhood stuff and on their own, with therapists, with coaching, but the dynamic changes as soon as you bring a second person into your intimate relationship. It's not the same as dealing with it on your own. It's just not.

SPEAKER_00: 30:27

No, because you're really, in some regards, the way I see it is if you don't have, well, first of all, I think of it like a spiral, right?

SPEAKER_01: 30:36

Potentially each

SPEAKER_00: 30:38

person, you're going to be revisited with similar, Lessons. Maybe this time it looks a little bit different because your coping skills are better, right? You have more techniques to deal with this particular thing. You better regulate your nervous system. And then maybe what is an anthill stays an anthill instead of making it, you know, this mountain that it never was. Right. And so I think that we're always and but yeah, some issues you will never see. if not paired or in a relationship, and it doesn't have to be romantic. You're going to see things in a romantic relationship than you're going to see in a friendship. Right. Especially when you are going into the bedroom. You're not doing that with all your other friends. Maybe you are. Maybe you aren't. But let's say you aren't. and that looks different you also probably don't live with this person

SPEAKER_02: 31:41

right well and i think i think you know this is something again i'm going to use my mom as an example but i think this applies to a lot of women today my mom got divorced she never remarried and she had a core group of female friends who she still you know loves to death they're all still still so close now many of them were married so they had their spouses but my mom was able to get a lot of needs met through her friendship but it didn't have the same kind of emotional toll it didn't require the same kind of growth from my mom to be friends with these women as it would have if she was in a you know relationship and I just I think this is happening so so frequently I mean, there's so many younger women who are, again, they've got the girlfriends, they're working hard, they're pursuing their professional career, and then they're struggling to find balance in the intimate world. And oftentimes, right, this is because a lot of the ways women are showing up today is in the intimate world. more masculine pursuits and behaviors, the driven for work, the, you know, checking the boxes, the way we're keeping score, you know, that those tend to be more masculine practices. And when I say this statement, I'm saying this as an observation, not as a judgment, but the feminist movement in America has made women more masculine and men more feminine. Oh, 100%. Yeah. And again, I'm not saying that being more integrated humans is a bad thing, because I think all of us should be aware of both our masculine and our feminine energies and be able to integrate this. But if we want to be in a relationship with a man and a woman and there's a charge, there's an attraction, we need to be less neutral together and be able to tap back into those polarities. If I if I'm a female who identifies more with my feminine energy, even if I don't go there a lot because of work and all the other obligations, that's a place where I do feel comfortable in a relationship. And if I'm a man who's being more sensitive and, you know, a nice guy and not wanting to hurt anybody else's feelings. Hey, that woman, when she's in her feminine, she doesn't want you to say we can go wherever you want to go. She wants. She wants you to make a plan for dinner. it's about holistic health so I was writing it for men because this has been my journey so you know I've got a chapter on hormones and hormone replacement for men and there's a nutrition and a physical fitness and a lifestyle and stress management and you know there's chapters about the bedroom and intimacy stuff but the name the title it was a joke in a way because I I've played soccer my whole life but I had knee surgeries in high school and you you know, knees that were starting to get bad. And it was like eight, I think it was seven or eight years ago. I just quit playing soccer. I was like, I can't do it. My knees are aching for two or three days after a wreck pickup game. It's still fun, but I liked, I'd rather play volleyball or, you know, go hiking and go out and see a band and go dancing. So I stopped playing soccer and I was hanging with a comic buddy of mine and, and he's another guy. And we talk a lot about health stuff and he was like, well, what are you going to do now? that you're not playing soccer, you know? And I was like, I don't know. I guess I'll just train for the bedroom or something. And he's like, dude, that's your book. That's the book title. So I want to give a shout out to my buddy, Rich Riggins for helping me. He's like, that's a great, funny title. You know? So I like bought the domain name that day. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 36:25

Sometimes those answers, right. When we've been, they just come and friends.

SPEAKER_02: 36:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:30

We don't know how it's going to show up, but.

SPEAKER_02: 36:33

Well, and I just want to put it out there because I do. worry a little bit that people are going to think oh this is just a sex thing or just a pickup thing you know but that's really that's not what it's about for me

SPEAKER_00: 36:44

no and but this but the reality is okay this is what i have come to truly believe um is that okay you mentioned the masculine and the feminine have you read the book getting to i do it's great

SPEAKER_02: 36:57

no i've not read that either

SPEAKER_00: 36:59

and basically she it's like getting to i do um i have it over there um doing relationships Right. She'd also been a handful of times and her, she teaches you how to date. She's really writing to a female.

SPEAKER_01: 37:15

How

SPEAKER_00: 37:16

to date if you want to live in your feminine energy and what that looks like and how to date if you, if you are like, but first you have to understand, like, where do you feel safe there? But if you want feminine energy, you can, have to be able to embrace the masculine, right? And if not, you're vying for the same position and there is no bedroom there because the attraction is lost. The polarity is gone and you can watch it happen. And I feel like I see it happen. And you can kind of guess when you're looking around that this has happened in a lot of situations and you wonder why, right? They don't want to have sex with their husbands. Husbands aren't interested in their wives. You know, they're turning to porn or this that and the other and I think this is a huge part of it because there's not a genuine understanding of well first of all like I've been you've been on the journey as a male I've been on the journey as a female wanting to like live in that feminine energy

SPEAKER_01: 38:14

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 38:16

now I too have more but now and in hindsight I can also see that there's healing to do with my mother as well because the messaging that I have received from her is a very deep you know general of men are dumb. You know, they don't know what they're doing. Right. Right. And if they aren't, and when I actually look back, God forbid, I don't know if she ever listened. She hasn't listened to one yet, but of my episodes, I could see why she attracted my father. This just came to me in like the last six or eight weeks since my son got married. And her father was more feminized, more of a nice guy. He was kind. I don't know. how much boundary setting he did. And my grandmother was German and definitely had that more masculine. Like I didn't get that warm, fuzzy feeling from her. And, and so like, so I think my mom was craving that. My dad's a more masculine, wanted to provide, protect, but I, With him as well, there is that shadow piece of that, the shadow side of that, which was using this to control and manipulate. Right. I'm very aware of that. But there are elements, and I think I talked about it on a prior podcast, where I saw my dad go into protect mode over his four- and six-year-old daughter that my mother would now deem as toxic, and I would think hero, honestly.

SPEAKER_01: 39:47

Yes, right. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 39:50

Because of the picture that has been painted of man being toxic.

UNKNOWN: 39:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:55

And any aggression. Right. Would be toxic. It's being able to discern when you actually might need to fight.

SPEAKER_02: 40:07

Yeah. Right. Yeah. But and here's the why the wild thing about this, too, in this energy flow. And I really I love the book King Warrior Magician.

SPEAKER_00: 40:20

Yeah. I just read that one.

SPEAKER_02: 40:22

Yeah. You know, and like like for me, that helped. to kind of reiterate this idea there actually is not there's no such thing as toxic masculine there's immature right masculine right like that have that that that are trying to assert the self but it's coming out in an unhealthy way and the other thing that I think is really interesting you know again the masculine is about presence in stillness it's not fiery it can be firm and directive but you know when we talk about like you know so like hormones estrogen and testosterone estrogen is feminine estrogen is where the fight comes from where the yelling comes from the screaming and and even in like you know roid rage where the This is where this idea that testosterone does it was that all these guys, these bodybuilders taking excess testosterone, they go crazy and beat people up. What happens is when you have too much testosterone at those levels, our body converts it to estrogen. That's where the roid rage comes from. It's estrogen that is doing it. Again, it's not to villainize estrogen because estrogen is also what gives you gives us the juicy and the connective and, you know, I mean, it's important. Both hormones are important for both men and women, but we need more masculine presence to balance all of the emotional pain and chaos and, you know, lack of trust and lack of safety that is going on in our society, you know, and I'm not saying that, you know, the elected leader in charge is doing that because i think there's a lot of immature masculine behaviors that are coming that way but the solution is also not to you know not we can't pretend that we don't need what we need there needs to be this balance between these energies and you know we've we've moved away from it and again i think there's been positives from that from those movements, but those positives have not carried over into our intimate relationships.

SPEAKER_00: 43:03

It's

SPEAKER_02: 43:03

made those things harder.

SPEAKER_00: 43:05

So I... was driving Uber and Lyft. I don't know if I've, I don't know if I told you that the last time. And I occasionally, so I was out one night and I picked two young women up and I was like, oh, where are you going? You know, and they were going to O'Shea's. This chick needed that chick to come out to see if this guy liked her. She couldn't tell because this guy doesn't have the courage. And so we had this whole dialogue. I actually recorded it. I have a 10 minute video of listening to these young women and they're maybe mid early 20s to mid 20s talking about how the men are so afraid to even make a move or make a yes or ask them out or let them know how they feel or claim them

SPEAKER_01: 43:52

that

SPEAKER_00: 43:53

they're having to bring girlfriends out does he like me they like you kind of know but like fucking a stand up get a set of balls and and tell you know and I think we so we have that going on where men are afraid because of the Right. coin, there's two sides. Yeah. So women who are actually in abusive relationships can get out and have the ability to go out and earn a dollar so that they can take care of themselves. But on the flip side of that, I also think it's left men wondering what am I needed for?

SPEAKER_01: 44:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 44:42

How do I show up? I can't provide for them anymore. I can't protect. I'm too angry. Whatever, you know, I can't do these things and I can't even ask her out And then she also has been, like I was watching, I watched Sex and the City 20 some odd years ago. And I also revisited Six Feet Under. And I mean, these are like pre my kids, actually. I don't know about six. I don't know how long sex in the city went on. But when I think back to that show and sort of the grooming, I think grooming the way they talked about men and this and, you know, and the promiscuity and I'm not whatever you want to do. That's up to you. But I don't think that it is this this liberation. Women can do what men can do. By sowing their seeds or what have you. When I don't think in reality, when we do know that women tend to produce more oxytocin during a sexual encounter, right? It's not really leveling out. They're still making their way to the counselor's office, the therapist's office to say, why doesn't he like that? You know what I mean? Yeah. And so we kind of in this, like, and so we have women also not... And also turning men away or I'm just going to do whatever men, you know, we're equals. But really, like, we also have to understand that we are different.

SPEAKER_02: 47:29

Yes. Yes. And again, I think, you know, there are women who in their most pure, true nature could be more masculine. And there are men who in their true, but that's like maybe 10%, you know, the majority of us are somewhere, you know, closer to kind of our, you know, birth agenda. If you were born female, you probably truly more at home in a feminine energy space you know even if you're not living that way today because you pay all your own bills and you've got a great job and you're checking the boxes and achieving achieving achieving it's just that won't fill the cup in the same way and again I think I mean what for me what you're talking about is this nice guy epidemic it's this It's nice guy seduction. I'm just going to be the cool, nice friend until she finally realizes how awesome I am. And then she's going to want to be with me. You know, that's that's like the nice guy seduction thing. But it builds so much resentment.

SPEAKER_00: 48:52

Well, that's the thing. He's pushing her into this in her having to claim him in her moving towards her masculine. That's essentially what it's doing. And And she's having to make the decisions. And I mean, looking back, like with, when I was raising small kids, I can't tell you how many times I felt like I said, I am driving the bus and I was fucking exhausted. Yeah. You know, when we would go to dinner and I would name 10 places, 10 different cuisines, you know, I don't know. That doesn't say, Oh my God, just pick, just pick. Yeah. And now that I understand, I wanted that because I wanted this masculine energy to just kind of like decide for me. I've made all these other decisions all day long. Please, please take the reins.

SPEAKER_01: 49:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 49:43

But then you also have the message like, oh, you're just going to let him make all the decisions for you, right? No, I'm just going to let, I'm just going to sit back into this feminine energy and just let him lead the way for a minute.

SPEAKER_02: 49:57

Yeah. Yeah. And it's not all of the decisions. And the reality is. yeah and the reality is in like a true you know partnership whether it's a marriage cohabitation I mean just even a long term thing no the big decisions we talk about together and maybe we do come into a more neutral energetic place for those conversations and we're both offering suggestions and we're both truly listening and hearing you know and feeling where things are coming from and that that is productive but if we want to have a fun date night in a you know in a fun playful sexy time in the bedroom and we want to keep that energy going long term in the relationship then we got to be able to fall back into the polarity dynamic

SPEAKER_00: 50:49

yeah and you know getting to i do she talks about uh it really doesn't matter if where you male if you're a male more you know uh embodying more if you're feminine or if you're a female body more, whatever it is, you kind of go in sort of with an agreement. Like this is, I don't know if it's necessarily discussed, but maybe there are going to be elements that are discussed. Right. And

SPEAKER_02: 51:17

meaning like if, if, if, if someone's not where they're supposed to be, is that what you were saying or what she was saying?

SPEAKER_00: 51:25

Well, she just, she's just suggesting like even in a same sex couple, you're going to have a masculine and a feminine. It's imperative, right? Yes. And there may be times they kind of swap throughout. Of course. But for the both part, you're kind of going in, okay, like, for example, you know, okay, maybe the conversation from the beginning is like prior to, because she gives you like a year, getting to I do in a year if you want. That's her book title. And what that might look like, again, she's speaking to a woman. If you're going from the feminine energy, but she's talking about both of them, how you might even approach that. You're not asking him for his number if you want to change the feminine energy. As soon as you do that... You're not going to be courted. I mean, just right. Right. So you

SPEAKER_02: 52:15

set the pace.

SPEAKER_00: 52:16

You can set the stage as a woman or if you're in the feminine and what that looks like or the masculine is going to, hey, I want your number. I'd love to take you out. And you pay for that. And guess what? If you really want a masculine man, you wait till you meet that guy. You're not going to go out of your way.

SPEAKER_02: 52:33

To settle in

SPEAKER_00: 52:35

these dynamics. Right, right. You might talk about something like, well, I really want my masculine person to provide for me. That's what my expectation is. You might talk about that. So maybe the, you know, going in, he might be the financial provider, right? It's not always the case. And those are the things, the nuances that she talks about in today's world. You do have some women. Absolutely. Who are making more money than their, than their husbands and how they can still embody the feminine.

SPEAKER_02: 53:09

Well, and that's an important thing to understand. And often that is a huge predictor of divorce. When women start making more money than their male spouse, divorce is on the horizon often for these couples. But it's a problem that the woman has. It's a problem for the woman. In general, most men actually don't it doesn't make most men insecure if their wife makes more money to them

SPEAKER_00: 53:40

okay that's in the surrendered wife have you read her work

SPEAKER_02: 53:44

i don't think so

SPEAKER_00: 53:45

okay well obviously it's written for a woman but it definitely would be worth the read i think

SPEAKER_01: 53:49

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 53:50

um to under because she has uh and and i can't believe i haven't read the book the surrendered wife like i've shared the title with friends are like there's no way

SPEAKER_01: 54:00

right

SPEAKER_00: 54:02

but if you actually like dug into the Right. Right. Because you have to be able to trust this individual if you're going to surrender into that feminine energy to the masculine leadership. Right. Somebody leads, somebody follows. It's a surrender. rendering, essentially.

SPEAKER_01: 54:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 54:35

My understanding. And because that's the energy I want to embody. And so, you know, her suggestion is, well, first of all, respond to your mate, your male counterpart with whatever you think. Because every time he asks you a question, what do you think?

UNKNOWN: 54:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 54:55

he's almost looking, he's turning to you almost as a mother. Whatever you think.

SPEAKER_01: 55:01

Just

SPEAKER_00: 55:02

come with that phrase. And he starts to step into it slowly, doing the work without even knowing he's doing it, right? That's just like one suggestion. And another one is to not say anything about the way he drives, no matter what. She says, no matter what. And I can tell you how many fights their dad and I had over the drive. I'm like, please slow down. Please slow. Like, why are you going that way? Questioning, emasculating him slowly. Does that make

SPEAKER_01: 55:32

sense?

SPEAKER_00: 55:32

Just questioning everything he did to the point. He's like. Right. your needs are met. You know, this is my, this is what I need every month. It does not forego nails. It does not forego your coffee at Starbucks with your girlfriends, right? You build it all in. And this is my, you know, this is what I need every month. And then everything else, you know, he gives you, it's just interesting. She's like,

SPEAKER_02: 56:27

yeah, I could see that working. I also though, like, I don't consider myself, I mean, I'm good at math, but I, you know, I've also had, I had my ex-wife was was an engineer and she was so detail oriented and list and the finances stuff like when she was in engineer mode she that it was way more efficient and effective for her to do that right you know and again nobody like it was that it didn't stress me out about it and the fact that she was an engineer that's part of what really got me starting to understand and explore more of the masculine and feminine stuff because I was like, oh, she's an engineer. She works almost exclusively with men. She's always in her left brain, you know, and I was like, I need to, what are ways I can help her tap into her feminine so that when she's done with work, not only is she done with work, but she's done with that energy of herself so she can relax and then feel all the other emotional stuff.

SPEAKER_00: 57:36

Right. So it didn't bother you however had you maybe taken that piece off of her plate even though she's better at it

SPEAKER_02: 57:45

right it might

SPEAKER_00: 57:46

have also might have helped like with the masculine feminine dynamic I mean I'm just throwing it out there but you

SPEAKER_01: 57:53

know for sure

SPEAKER_00: 57:54

like it was something that I really because I look their dad and I did not marry and you know the way my mom sort of you keep your own money right and that was the message so that's why every owned our home together I wrote my portion He wrote his portion. There was no joint anything. And in some regards, it was to our detriment.

SPEAKER_01: 58:16

Sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_00: 58:17

Because of the way we set that up. And that was so much of that was due to. And then this whole 50-50 model, that just doesn't

SPEAKER_02: 58:29

work. I heard a thing a long time ago. I don't know, like, you know, there's these weekend intensive stuff, the Landmark Forum. There was one I did call, I did the Landmark Forum. I did one called Psy, P-S-I, when I was out in med school. And they asked, you know, what do you think the ratio percentage should be for a good relationship? Is it 50-50? And, you know, the answer's no, it's 100-100. Like, don't do it. both people truly need to be willing to carry the entire burden at some point in time in the relationship if you truly are envisioning yourself as a partner and so again I've always kind of taken that to heart like that that resonates with me you know I do want to show up a hundred percent of the time I mean you know yeah

SPEAKER_00: 59:19

it's

SPEAKER_02: 59:19

just

SPEAKER_00: 59:20

but that's what I hear though is we both should be showing up up 100% of the time. Yes,

SPEAKER_01: 59:26

yes.

SPEAKER_00: 59:27

But that doesn't mean the daily chores, the financial burden is all going to necessarily be 50-50. Somebody to me.

SPEAKER_02: 59:35

Correct. Right. Oh, right, right, right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00: 59:38

Or you're going to have somebody who's kind of like you holding the container and then somebody else is.

SPEAKER_02: 59:43

Yeah. I mean, I tell the guys that I talk to in my practice about this stuff, you know, directly. I just say like, look, I mean, it does seem kind of unfair Right. Right. for that for her. And that never stops. And my tendency, what I always wanted to do, and this is the guy thing, we wanna fix it. We want to get to the solution. And the last thing any of my female partners ever want is to be told what they were doing wrong, excusing things, explaining things, rationalizing things defending things like none of that works and and but it's also though important for us as individuals and this is what I say to the female patients I work with because again I'm talking with patients about grief and loss and anger and their stuff and I tell them I'm like look what you're talking about now is anger or it's sadness you can't think your way through it you have to feel it right yeah we have to be able to hold space for our own feminine right and what many people today do to avoid that because it requires practice you know work meditation sitting breathing instead we detach and go to these surrogate masculine and immature masculine structures I'm going to eat some food have a beer and watch a show right I'm creating something that's got a start a finish it's allowing me to not have to really lean into those feelings and it's a distraction and that's where you know addiction it's this disconnection to ourselves to others and whether it's drugs or TV or porn or you know whatever food I mean people are are We're trying to create balance for this emotional body in all of us that just wants to be felt. We want to feel that other people can feel us, but we're just not doing it well. And so I'm hoping that we can get back to that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:32

And that's training for the bedroom. And what are we going to say?

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:37

Yeah, that is training for the bedroom. And what I was going to say about that back to the training for the bedroom is I'm so glad how many women have reached out to me and told me they were grateful for this information and for thinking and without a doubt I want to write training for the bedroom for women

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:53

yeah you

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:54

know like that's the next version of the book with you know the next book or whatever like with without a doubt and and um and I don't consider myself you know a relationship coach or I'm a physician I'm a physician I'm a holistic physician you know I have these certain skill sets but I've also worked walked this path in my own life and so that's what I'm trying to share this

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:18

is the thing though too though you see it I mean as a physician you know This type of disconnection shows up to me in dis-ease.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:31

I'm

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:32

saying no diagnosis disease, dis-ease. I don't care what the label is. Whatever the label is in our bodies.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:43

And

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:45

When, I mean, and I'm going to put it out there. If your libido's low, that's not at 45. It's not age.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:56

Sorry. Don't buy it. I am not buying it. I'm not going to buy that. I'm not going to buy anything. You have to look at your stuff. You've got to feel the things. You've got to release it. And I think most things are connected too. And so as a physician, you see these people. We come into you. you know, this and the other. Are you satisfied in your marriage? Oh, maybe that's why you aren't lubricating. No, I don't buy it's all perimenopause or menopause, right? If you are not dealing with your stuff, right? And I remember listening in Christiane Northrup's book, Wisdom of Menopause, like in menopause and perimenopause, no stone is left unturned. So whatever you haven't dealt with, it will be turned up.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:38

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:39

During that time. So you better be ready for it. And, you know, There are people cruising right through it, having fantastic sex because they've created the container that you're talking about. Yes. And the type of dynamic and polarity that you are talking about. And that's why they cruise through maybe a certain situation. That's why they're not experiencing erectile dysfunction. That's why they're, you know, because they are looking, it is a whole body deal.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:06

100%. And people take for granted how easy it is for new relationships, for people to slide into the masculine and feminine especially in the bedroom right like it's easy because oh we're going out and so she's getting all dressed up and she's putting on makeup and yeah you know just doing these little things and you know complacency and the routine and the work life like that's where we get into trouble and so absolutely just just being able to talk about this and then you know as a couple to say, Hey, how important is the bedroom for our relationship dynamic? How important is it that we're experiencing these energies and, and, you know, having, and for some people it's not, you know, there's some people who just want to be friends and coexist and live and have a life together in that way. And that could be okay too. You know, it's just not what I want for myself.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:12

I, yeah, I hear you. I mean, I think there's, I just think there's too much learning that can take place and healing that can take place actually in that arena. Yes. That... I mean, I know, I know that that's how many live. It's just not, but I know I do have to really deep down wonder and would be curious if that's truly, truly absolutely fulfilling or if it's become just. Right,

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:42

right. No, for most of those dynamics, if those people were in a different relationship with a different person, it would be totally different. You know, the woman or the guy who says, I have no libido, all of a sudden, you know, they're charged right back up. I love, there's a book called Pathways. Passionate Marriage by David Snark. It's like S-N-A-R-C-H, I think. And that's actually one of the very first legit relationship books I think I read that started me thinking about this. And he talks about it and he says, effectively, the dynamics in a relationship are going to play out over and over everywhere within the relationship. So it's like, Like we can work on these dynamics that we have and we can do it arguing about how we load the dishwasher or we can do it figuring out how we like to have sex and be intimate and, you know, get ourselves turned on. But the same energy exchange where we're getting stuck, you know, is often coming from the same place. And the other thing that I really loved about that book, and again, this was the first time and it made me really It made me grasp this because it was so relevant to my first marriage. Um, the romanticized fairy tale of, you know, you complete me happily ever after, like that causes us more problems than we, than we can even begin to make. And my first wife, you know, we could not have been more opposite in every way. And I truly thought like, I blame Jerry Maguire. Oh, she completed me. me like I need somebody who does all of these things completely different than how I would do and that's such bad advice like it's such a bad

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:39

but just I mean if you if you reflect back on that can can you see the mirror the roof oh yes yes because like

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:49

it's the other side of the coin the opposite is the other side of the coin I mean she and she was my mom in a lot of ways you know to like I can own that and in some ways my mom kind of tried to take her side in the divorce even a little bit like that you know it didn't last long because I made it I made it very clear to my mom that I'm not my dad and so whatever story she had about my dad and her divorce with him that doesn't apply to me and my daughters your granddaughters

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:26

so there you kind of set that container with your mother right really like created like

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:34

yeah I've worked a lot on the relationship with my mom and you know I think I have found the last few women I have dated have all had the same astrological sign as my mom and I swear that this is some kind of growth self work that make me be just more loving and tolerant of my mom is too because now because I know how everybody else loves my mom she's cute and she's kind and she is sweet you know and so like I can the things about her that drove me crazy I can now see similar behaviors in these women who I adore right and be like oh okay it's cute when my mom does it too it just annoys me yeah you know yeah

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:25

yeah right I yeah I know I'm My son and I, we definitely have our moments.

UNKNOWN: 1:10:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:32

Sure. And so, yeah, we can really battle. But I also like aside from just the romantic relationship, when you start to bring in and weave throughout some of these, I don't know, just subtle shifts, like just tiny things.

UNKNOWN: 1:10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:53

And I don't know how much time you have, but, you know, there's little bitty things that I was terrible at receiving. The feminine energy receives. The male is the giver, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:06

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:06

He's the giver of the seed. And so there would be tiny little things where I also realized, and this was part messaging from my mother, you can do it. You're a woman. You know, you don't need a man for anything.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:18

Actually,

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:20

you need a man for a kid.

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:22

Right, right. They're

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:28

here for our protection. I mean, sure, I can go out and get a weapon and learn gun skills. I haven't. I could. But on the same token, you know...

SPEAKER_02: 1:11:43

It's, we're complimentary to each other. You know, we're not supposed to be exactly the same. Men, all men aren't exactly the same. All women aren't exactly the same. And all, you know, men and women, we have differences and we have similarities. And that's a beautiful, beautiful thing. And I'm, you know, I have two awesome daughters who have, you know, kicking butt, they're achievers, they're hard workers. Like I love that they live it. at a time that they can do that I also appreciate that their mom like my mom is a you know very emotional and has offered them that and that I've tried to be more sensitive to that and having again two daughters and and wanting to be good in relationship like all just all of these opportunities for me to become more self-aware for me to push myself through uncomfortable situations and we we We all can benefit from this. And without a doubt, when we start working on our relationships, we can work on our health. Or when we start working on our health, we should be working on our relationships. I mean, that is what holistic health is about. It's about all these things.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, like... My son and I, we were getting into it. He was getting ready to move across the country and he was packing his car. Okay. 23 years old. I was like, you're not doing it right. Right here. Mom comes in. He's like, are you ready to fight before I drive across the country to New Mexico to live? And you won't see me for a while. And I was like, well, no, not really.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:24

You know,

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:26

he put a cap on it. He was like, every time he came in and out of the house to pack, he locked the car. Yeah. And so like, when I can look at that really clearly for a moment as a mom like first of all it was none of my business how he packed his car actually right as the codependent fixer you know right as the mother if I trust that I've raised a decent son he knows what he's doing right yes I have to trust that he knows what he's doing and I have to let him do it

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:54

yes

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:54

right because otherwise I'm emasculating his capability you know like I'm questioning right who he is at 23 instead of just letting him do it

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:03

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:04

I think it's something that women do all over the place right these little like you know that seemed like pretty trivial but in the end they just build up to like oh I just can't do anything right I need your help to do everything oh yeah you know what I mean and so then you've slowly emasculated your man and Even if he started out masculine.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:27

Oh, a hundred percent. And it's, and it's like, I mean, a guy in that kind of relationship, but I've been in relationships like this. It's like, it's like, oh, I can't do anything right. And does this person even like me? Right. You know what I mean? Like, do they even like me at all? Like, what are, like, what is this about? You know? Yeah. Yeah. And it's, but.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:52

So, I mean, whether it's your romantic relationship or or not just, I think associating with the opposite sex or these different energies, it just improves the quality of all of your relationships. And as you said, if you're working on your relationships, you're working on your health and then vice. And if you are working on your health, you really have to. I mean, if you're looking at the holistic picture, you're looking at those relationships, you're looking at the career, you're looking at, you know, the food you bring into your house and, you know, put into your body, you're looking at all of all elements in order.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:25

And even if you're not in a romantic relationship, that relationship between the masculine and feminine within each of us, becoming aware of that and working through that. And I love that I get to talk with patients about this stuff. And I think for a lot of them, that can be validating to be like, oh, wow, yeah, I am sad. And oh, well, now it makes sense why I come home and I just want to sit in front of the TV and eat junk food till I go to bed yeah you know like yeah because your emotional body is not being felt and you're just trying to not you're not wanting to feel it so you're looking for these other you know excuses hey let's talk about some healthier ways we could balance that out and instead of not wanting to feel sad how about we just feel really sad for a moment and just because it's not a bad thing right you should be sad about what happened you know how how human of us

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:31

yeah so okay so i know the book's not out for a minute but people can follow you and they can find you to gain all this wisdom and

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:38

are

SPEAKER_00: 1:16:39

you working with clients like who just want this information and how you're not a men's coach right

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:46

not i mean i would i would talk with people about this stuff i mean i if they came in and said they wanted this i would start talking to them about Okay. Yeah. and start getting people maybe excited about the book or, you know, maybe give a chapter away. I'm thinking of some different ideas to start kind of like, again, I want to, I want to get the book published next year. I want people to be excited about it beforehand. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:40

Well, I'm excited about it. So I'm, I'm really, I hope

SPEAKER_02: 1:17:43

we get to talk about this again, Elizabeth. Like, I'm super glad you reached out about this. This is fun for me.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:48

Well, for me, it's just been, like I said, like I just, these last couple of years having, and then just, just being able to reflect. I think it's, I mean, of course I've had several relationships, right? I mean, there was one, he was this guy in so many ways felt very, very safe so that I could surrender a little bit. Right. We were various things, but otherwise he was like the, one of the most unsafe men I'd ever been with. Right. Okay. But in realms, when I look back, I'm like, Oh, like he, he's the, you know, I did my first psychedelic mushroom while we went on this retreat together in this, in, in, in, in Jamaica. I don't know why or what reason in the world would make me feel safe enough to do it, but it did. There was something.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:35

It did. Yeah. That's amazing. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:38

And then he would order my dinner. Not because he was controlling. I knew he was going to order something I loved.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:50

You know what I mean? It was just like handing that over. Whatever you pick. I'll be fine with whatever you We were going to split whatever it was, like the two or three items, you know, but it was just like handing that over. And, you know, it was one of the exercises in another program that I participated in. I don't know if you followed the Kim Inami on Instagram, her work. She has that program called Vaginal Kung Fu and she's got couples coming together, but she's a pretty interesting gal. And she, so I, and you know, that was just one of her exercises. Let him order for you. Let him take you. Yeah. Yeah. him do it. And I have learned to say, you know, I mean, even just little things like we would walk to Kroger and I would refuse to let Joe, that he's my partner, carry the bags back. And I realized I'm like, okay, this is, and I just heard it in my, well, you can carry the bags back. Just kind of Elizabeth. Why do you need Joe to carry the bags? Right. Well, yeah, I'm perfectly capable, but he wants to be helpful right now. And he wants to be helpful because men want to be helpful, but they also need to know kind of how they can need to be helpful. And so I'm 100 percent. Yeah. How can he be helpful and how can I make it very clear that this is helpful?

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:22

And and and letting him do these things for me. just because and I know it's a gift for him

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:32

it is that's the thing it fills the guy's bucket we want to solve problems we want to be caretakers we truly do and I heard somebody else talking about it might have been Alison Armstrong saying you know like men love it was Alison Armstrong she was like men actually love easier than women because like men boys this love and adoration for their mom you know at this like and just this full heart and she was like you know when men love they're just all in but like women are layered and that's where like the nitpicking comes in it's like i don't like this thing and this thing and so you know we're like guys when a guy truly is love somebody they just they just accept them and again this is you know blanket statements i understand why you know it doesn't apply 100 percent of the time But that's been true. I do want to share one thing. I do have a follow-up coming in in about 10 minutes. Yeah, yeah, you're good. But when you were talking about things like coming up or happening, do you know Paige Perlman of Holotech?

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:41

Oh, yeah, that's where my space is.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:44

Are you there too?

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:45

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do body work and teach Pilates there. I use space there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:21:49

Yeah, so Paige and I are going to do something here sometime in the fall. Oh, good. Yeah, she's done some different little things. workshop stuff around polarity and her journey I mean it's a more recent journey but we've got together and talked and brainstormed some ideas and she had a partner who she's no longer with who she had done a few things with so she reached out to me and so I'm excited we'll do some fun stuff together

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:16

maybe we can all get on a call we can share that and get that out there because to me again I think it's what's needed for the collective healing I think we need to understand this a little bit better I mean, I think everybody would just function and flow better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:33

I love it. I love it. I appreciate this so, so much. Just being there with you and talking again.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:37

Okay. Well, it's great to see you and I'll be talking to you soon.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:44

All right, Elizabeth. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:45

You have a great day.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:46

You too.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:47

Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:48

Bye.