Love & Laughter the Next Time Around featuring Elizabeth Lewis-Acton

In this episode, Elizabeth and I dive into the real challenges and joys of dating the next time around. Our guest shares insights from decades of coaching singles and couples, including:

What We Cover

• The biggest mistakes next-time-around singles make
•  How to get back out there with confidence
•  Facing common obstacles, fears, and internal saboteurs
• Navigating the modern dating world especially online dating
• The truth about sex too soon and how it impacts connection
• What it takes to find joy, fulfillment, and long-term success in dating

Whether you're newly single, dating after years away, or supporting someone in that season, this episode offers compassionate, practical, and hopeful guidance.

Elizabeth Acton-Lewis is a remarried widow, retired award winning teacher, and found of Singles Meet Singles, LLC, Louisville's largest singles group with over 4,000 members. She coaches "next-time-around" singles, helping them identify saboteurs, shift limiting beliefs, and date in alignment with their values.  She also leads marriage enrichment and couples coaching to keep healthy strong relationships. 

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Website:  https://loveandlaughterlifecoaching.com/

My book, 29 Days: The Self-Love Leap is your guide to making 29 meaningful, healthy lifestyle changes - one per day - that will help you unlock the best version of yourself.  These aren't overwhelming, unrealistic goals.  They're practical, empowering steps that fit into your daily life and help you create habits that promote self-love, balance, and optimal health. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 2:36

Welcome to today's episode of Unapologetic Living. My name is Elizabeth Elliot, and I'm excited to have another Elizabeth with me today. Elizabeth Lewis Acton. She's a um sister Louisville, and she is a the love and laughter life coach. Love and laughter, right? Life coach and author. And today we're going to talk about. I don't just want to welcome you first. I'm so glad that we get to be here because I know for so many, I'm 47, and I know that a lot of people do find themselves, you know, in the dating world when they don't think they might ever be there again, right? And I know. And so I love that because I think it's hard today's world with social media and this app and that app to meet people. And oftentimes it, you know, there's um maybe I know it can work and it has worked for for several um individuals and couples to meet that way, but oftentimes uh that's not necessarily the way I hear when I'm talking with people because I talk to a lot of people. I talk to people in the car when I'm driving lift and uber, I talk to other women and men. Like, how do how do I get back out there? Where do I meet someone? You know, and I love that you are you need to send them all to me.

SPEAKER_00: 4:04

Yeah. It will help change their perspectives. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 4:07

So can you tell me a little bit about your journey, uh bringing you to this spot, creating, I know you're also an entrepreneur like me. Um yeah, a little bit about your journey.

SPEAKER_00: 4:19

Yeah, sure. So I'm actually a retired teacher, elementary teacher. I became a widow early in life at age 40. My husband died on 9-11, 05, when my kids were 9 and 11. And so, of course, my focus for the first couple years was just, oh my gosh, I have to parent these kids and they have to turn out okay, and I have to do, you know, all the jobs and all the things. So, you know, once I got that figured out, um started dating, and uh in my book, I I kind of do a longer story of that. But then after I retired from teaching um and went to life coach training, they want you to pick a niche or something you're passionate about. And I thought, oh my gosh, you know, I started the largest singles group in Louisville, and I feel like all I do is talk to girls, uh women, uh, you know, don't sleep with them on the first date, or I talked, you know, navigating men into dating. And I thought, you know what? I feel like this is a need in the community. Like everybody is trying to figure this out the next time around. And, you know, again, like you said, people don't think they're gonna end up in this space, but 50% of Americans do. Um, and the second marriage, it's 63% divorce rate, and the third marriage is 71% divorce rate. So I thought, oh my goodness, this is a need more than ever. And so um, my niche was helping next time around singles date, and then it also morphed into helping uh, you know, those people that date eventually marry. And my goal is to keep marriages strong so that it end up back in my singles class. So I do couples enrichment um as well as do singles classes. I love that.

SPEAKER_02: 6:02

And so this started um, and so did you find when you were re-entering um the dating world uh after with kids? Kind of want to touch on that a little bit because I know and I and I I just and whether it's your personal experience or just experience uh that you've heard through others, I find that some people and and maybe it is the best decision to put it uh to shelf dating while raising children, or do you think um it's important, and I go of course, every every scenario is going to be uh personal and different, um, important to get back out there.

SPEAKER_00: 6:40

Yeah, so it's it's a little bit different from a widow than it is a divorce person. I say that only because I didn't have every other weekend free. So for me, um, and my kids, again, they were nine and eleven. I mean, it's just like such an awful, I mean, it's never a good time for your daddy to die, but you know, going into middle school and all of the things, and um so I think uh if it wasn't for the first man that I fell crazy in love with after uh my husband died, um, it was a rebound, just like divorced people have rebound. Uh, if it wasn't for that to show me that I could love again, you know, I I perhaps would have waited longer. Divorced people, I mean, don't get me wrong, parenting should be the number one focus, period. They those kids are entrusted to you, and it is your job to make sure they, you know, end up okay. Um and I and I mean in all areas, not just physically, but emotionally and psychologically, and you know, all the things. But um, but it there's nothing wrong with dipping your toes in and going in and saying, hey, I'm new to this, I'm not, I'm not looking for anything serious right away, but I would like life-enhancing friendships and you know, there's a way to navigate that. And that that's kind of what I do with my one-on-one clients is wherever they are in their journey, because you know, God wired us to love and be loved. It's in us. So as much as we want to push it away and say, Oh, I'm gonna, I'm never gonna love again, or I'm, you know, whatever people say, a lot of singles say a lot of negative things, which deep down in their heart, of course, you want to love again. It's it's ingrained in us. That's why we're here is to love.

SPEAKER_02: 8:20

So you mentioned, I want to and I also want to touch on something that you said you were talking about, um, talking to young women about not having sex on the first date. And then I also heard you say something about you know, help helping guide men in in getting out there. Um I don't want to uh what what what would you say? Um I guess I'm kind of looking at this through uh, you know, a lens, uh uh a more um for me, it's a newer lens in the past like three to four years. Um, one of the books that I recently read was uh called Getting to I Do. Are you familiar with it?

SPEAKER_00: 9:07

I have heard of that. I've not read that one.

SPEAKER_02: 9:09

Well, I really appreciate I really appreciated the insights and wisdom from that book. And I I almost want to like give it to every young girl because uh she also strongly and discourages, you know, um really sharing that part of yourself with a man um early on, like really give it some time and with the you know, with but which is like um contraindicated in society. It's like the more you right, you can sleep around and you're you can be liberated like a man and do what you want, but yeah, this is a big topic. It's not serving, I think, either party, right? The male or the female.

SPEAKER_00: 9:57

Um, so I it's a big it's a big topic that we talk about in our singles classes and of course with my one-on-one clients. So, and you can look at it through several lenses. Obviously, if you're a Christian, you know, God created marriage and He should know, He should know when it's supposed to happen. Um, but you know, singles go, hey, been there, I've done that, I've done it before, it's no big deal, and they kind of lessen the thing. But even if you don't look through a Christian lens, because you know, not all of my clients are Christian based, and I, you know, can honor that, but we still want to honor who we are. And uh when you give all of yourself to somebody too early and it doesn't work out, and a vast majority of them do not work out, then there's pain and there's hurt, and there's another notch on your belt, and there's another I mean it's just so many other other things. So yeah, you might uh, you know, Steve Harvey says wait 90 days before you give up the cookies, right? That that was his famous, famous saying. Um Wendy Walsh had a book that talked about high sexual economy, and and she at her book was the 30-day love detox. And she said that if you people, this is a statistic that I she did some study. If you have sex with someone in the first 30 days, there's a 90% chance that you will not be with them in a year. And I'm thinking, well, gosh, can't you wait 30 days? You know, I mean, let's just look at that statistic. And believe it or not, people just have trouble with that. And I think a lot of it has to do with, oh, they're not gonna love me if I don't have sex with them, or they'll just go get it from somewhere else. Like, no, they're not gonna get sex with you somewhere else. Well, that's right. They're they're they're gonna get sex from somebody else, but not with you, with somebody else. And it also puts a higher value on you if you say no. It doesn't mean you're prude, it doesn't mean that you don't love to be naked and want to have sex. I mean, it does I mean again, God God made that to be a beautiful, wonderful thing. Um, so yeah, I I could probably talk a lot longer about that, but I I think that the longer, I mean, if you if if the guy puts pressure on you, well, that's you know, love is patient, love is kind. That's not loving or kind if they're pressuring you. And if you don't know if you're gonna spend forever with this person or not, you probably shouldn't be giving everything you have to them. Are you gonna give them all of your bank account on that 30 first 30 days? You're gonna say, here's all my money, you have access to it. Because that's what you do when you get married. You know, you share everything. So anyway, I could probably go on, but that is definitely um a question that comes up all the time that I help people navigate through that.

SPEAKER_02: 12:50

Yeah, because to me, you know, I I I um it's a conversation I've you know have with both of my kids um who are now adults. And I'm I don't know, you know, I can remember the messages that I received. I grew up Methodist uh from my parents, um, but then you've got all these other messages that are, you know, cultural today. Um then in reading uh again some newer literature, it's not new literature, but was newer to me. Um it just makes so much sense. And that was one of the things she talks about, is just you know, and it and if and if they are really interested, they will step up to the plate. And absolutely, absolutely, yeah, yeah, every time. Yeah, and you just have to, you know, again, continue. Would you say that uh some of that is um I don't want to say a lack of boundary setting, but or again, just fear, right? As you mentioned, of them going to get it somewhere else. Well, then okay, see you later next.

SPEAKER_00: 13:58

Yeah, wish them love. Yeah, so I think it's because I mean, you know, a lot of women go, men just want sex all the time. Well, so do women. It's not just the guys, do you know that there's another partner in that bed, you know, and so you can't just put on one gender. Um, I think it has to do with um not dating with your values, and everybody's values are different. Like you say, if you have a Christian uh lens, that's gonna look different than maybe an atheist who, you know, um that might think differently, you know, doesn't make them a bad person. It just means that uh and I and one big thing I work with my clients on is um what I call saboteurs. And so saboteurs are all the voices in your head that tell you why, you know, I'm too fat, I'm too old, no one will ever love me again. If I don't sleep with, you know, those saboteurs become really loud and they're always wrong and they're always negative. So I teach them to listen to what I call is their captain, and I I take them through this little activity to figure out their captain. But um yeah, it it is individualized, but overall, I mean, just look at statistics, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 15:12

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And then also just knowing that um, you know, women, women more so than men, uh that oxytocin is released, you know, so much more easily than for men. It happens, right? But we bond quicker, and so despite um the messaging again, this new cult, this cultural messaging of the last, however, the the women need to wait until the men fall in love before they have sex.

SPEAKER_00: 15:42

So for men, they can have sex like a light switch and just that's just how they're made, right? Women have to have the more emotional and and whatnot. But uh by act of having sex, women fall in love. But for men, we need to wait until the men fall in love before having sex. So it's it's uh it's interesting how we're wired.

SPEAKER_02: 17:52

So so just to kind of jump around, because I know we only have a uh, you know, a small amount of time together today, um I know that you have created some of these singles, meet singles, in-person events. Uh what so I I and I don't do you still have offer those? You still host those too?

SPEAKER_00: 18:13

No, I don't I don't do the big parties quite as much because after COVID, people would just not engage in the same way. And you know, I had to buy a venue and a DJ, and uh singles are famous for if you make an event, and I know because I was a single for 16 years, um, you click interested, you don't commit and click going. And so I would have 20 going and 150 interested. And I'm like, I can't, I can't have a party with just interested people. I have to have some going commitment. So I've I've stepped away a little bit. It doesn't mean I'll never do a big party again. I I'm sure I will, because they're a blast. And it's just such a great way to, I mean, there have been 20 marriages as a result of just having this group, which is just amazing. But um, so I now focus on my I have a life love and dating class that I host once a month. Um, and that's at the end of every class, there's a QA with me for 15 minutes so they can bring any question that they have, either personally or about the dating world or or whatnot. So that's a that's a great class if you're in or around the Louisville area.

SPEAKER_02: 21:07

So that's and and would you say that's for predominantly singles or is that for couples too?

SPEAKER_00: 21:11

That one is for singles. I do have couples enrichment classes, and the next one coming up is in January, February. It's about attachment styles. Okay. I don't know if you know a lot about that, but it's it's literally the best class that I offer. And uh it's for it's for singles and couples. You can be married or not married or almost married or uh married before you have babies or married 15 years. I mean, it's truly uh in a nutshell, we all have an attachment style that we take into every adult relationship. And if it's an insecure attachment style, that might mean you're a pleaser or an avoider, there's all these little nerd names for them. When you have a rupture or a disagreement, the the argument happens the same way. It's the same dance, the same thing happens, and a lot of the times it doesn't get resolved. And so this class teaches you what you are, and then at the end, it teaches you how to heal your um insecure attachment styles.

SPEAKER_02: 22:08

So oh, I love that. Uh, it was funny. I was um just this week talking with a friend and then watching a uh YouTube by a guy, a gentleman who was talking about the disorganized attachment style. So uh it's something that you know I I know a little bit about, but not enough. But I can see what you're saying when there's a rupture that the pattern repeats, yeah. And breaking.

SPEAKER_00: 22:38

The other one has no idea. Yeah.

unknown: 22:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:42

If you say something to your husband or boyfriend or whatever, and he erupts, and you're like, all I said was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But what you don't know is that he is wanting you to meet an emotional need that did not get met when he was maybe eight. And you don't know you're supposed to meet an emotional need. And he, you know, and so that it's it's crazy interesting. And and depending on what book you read, there are different labels, but they're all fit under, you know, certain umbrellas of terminology.

SPEAKER_02: 23:15

Yeah, which I think can interfere with those deeper levels of intimacy and connection.

SPEAKER_00: 23:20

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 23:21

And if we understood that, um, the goal is to be secure. Yeah, then you might we might see less in endings of marriages if everybody could understand and look. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 23:36

This class actually was um, there's a a podcast that I'm actually a life coach referral for. It's called New Life Live. And they do this national workshop on on how we love, which is this book and this class that I do. And there are people that have divorced papers ready to be signed that come to this and their marriage is saved. I mean, that's how powerful this is once you know this and know how to get out of your rut and you understand each other at a at a whole different level. So I mean, yeah, it's it's powerful.

SPEAKER_02: 24:11

Um, yeah, I love that. I think, you know, I've again, as I said, I've read literature I never read. Uh, I don't uh um The Empowered Wife by Laura Doyle. Okay. Uh, really great. Her first book was called The Surrendered Wife, which just definitely is not what you think. Uh, they're both, but you know, her goal too is to end worldwide marriage, uh, worldwide divorce. And that she she thinks almost any marriage can be saved if you know that they do many end unnecessarily, they just don't find the right tools.

SPEAKER_00: 24:50

I agree. I totally agree.

SPEAKER_02: 24:52

So okay, so you have in person and you have the in-person, but I'm curious what you think about like the online dating because you you get mixed reviews, and I want to meet somebody organically. And you know, what are your thoughts about the online dating world?

SPEAKER_00: 25:06

So I could go on literally for hours. I do I do speak about this, I speak to singles groups about this, but I'm a huge proponent for online dating. And hold on, I've got something in my throat. I wish they weren't called dating apps. I wish they were called introduction apps because that's all they are. So if you go to a party, and let's say there's, I don't know, two or three men that look interesting, and you're like, oh, I sure would like to meet them, right? It's the same as going online. Oh, they're cute. I'd sure would like to meet them. And then you go and you meet them and you figure out if they're your person or not. 99% are not the one, only one makes it. So all the rest are lessons. And so the beauty of online dating is that you get to get a whole crop of people that are in your age range, your area, that are looking for love. Now, the reason you get bad raps and bad stories are twofold. Number one, they're scammers, and and you're gonna get scammers everywhere. Let's you can't avoid that. But as soon as in my book, I talk what a what a a scammer looks like. So you're able to identify them and you just you just skip them, go on. Another reason people get a bad rap is because some people are liars and they lie about their age or they lie about their weight. That's not an online dating problem. That's a human behavior. That's a human character problem. It's not online dating's fault that they lied. It's it's their character that lied, you know. And so, um, and then actually the third reason is maybe, you know, they go online, like when I went online for the first time, I'm like, how hard can this be? You know, I'm cute, I'm fun, I I I'm just gonna go meet somebody and fall in love and get married. It's just gonna be that easy. Well, when you go in with that kind of expectation, you're gonna get disappointed really quickly because you're like, okay, yeah, no, okay, no, oh gosh, no. You get a lot of note, you're like, oh, you're just not my people, right? But that's also really important because you figure out who you are again in the dating world. You know, if you haven't dated for 25 years, it's kind of scary to go back out and do it all over again. But it's also fun if you go with the right frame of mind and and the the right perspective. So to me, online dating is like going to a party. And if you if you go to a party and you don't find anyone interesting, it doesn't mean you don't go to parties anymore. You don't just quit. And a lot of people go online for three weeks and go, oh, I tried that, it didn't work. Really? You thought in that three weeks you were gonna find the one. You know, it's just it's just a a perspective that just does not match reality.

SPEAKER_02: 27:46

Yeah, I uh it's funny that you mentioned the scammers or the the ones that are lying. Um I was on before I met Joe, I was on Bumble and I met a guy, and I appreciate the fact I met him. He he uh uh met him out um to have a drink at the time. This was when I was still drinking. I don't drink anymore. But um, we met, and the first thing he told me was that he lied. It was the very first thing he said, like the first couple of sentences uh that he um oh gosh, he was I think he said he was 42, and in the end he was 49.

SPEAKER_00: 28:29

And he gave you some reason of why he had to lie because he's looking for somebody younger.

SPEAKER_02: 28:36

Well, what he said was, yeah, that he what he found when he was honest uh with his age is that everybody it was cougars looking for him, and he did not, you know, he wanted somebody who was um let's see, so I was like 42 at the time. That might not make sense. Maybe I was 40. I can't remember even when that was.

SPEAKER_00: 29:12

You know, if that happens to you one, three, maybe even five times doesn't mean you we put these blanket statements out there, and that's what stops us.

SPEAKER_02: 29:23

Well, he had posted old photographs. I didn't know he, you know, was completely bald, which is fine, but every photograph was you know, he had a hat on. Uh, I didn't know he was super short, he didn't say that, and he'd gained a lot of weight, you know, and the photos were again like eight or ten years old.

SPEAKER_00: 29:47

And see, and if he were my client, I would say, you put your little short, bald-headed self on there because the person that's looking for you is gonna love you for all the reasons that nobody else did, right? And they just have such low confidence, and you know, to that guy, he someone probably made a comment about being short, and I'm looking for tall again. He's putting a blanket rule. Well, nobody wants a short bald man. I I love short and I love bald, so I I wouldn't be one of those women, right?

SPEAKER_02: 30:19

Yeah, yeah. And that's you know, part of the reason I name my podcast Unapologetic Living. Like, I want, you know, to give people permission to be their unapologetic, authentic selves, right? And and that's like my biggest mission. Like, please be unapologetically you. And if that means you're a little overweight and bald and short, then that's you know exactly who you are. And you're absolutely correct. So, you know, I do um, yeah, definitely there's there's mixed reviews, and I I get it. I've definitely heard it wasn't for me. Uh, they're on and off, they don't give it enough time, uh, you know, no different than, you know, maybe the person who is dating and trying to meet people organically and swears off, you know, men or women altogether, right?

SPEAKER_00: 34:05

Yeah. I mean, again, I could talk truly hours for the about this, but um I feel like uh people have in their head there's only one way that they can fall in love and and it's not gonna be, you know, or or they'll say, Oh, I'm open to love. Yeah, I I pray about it and I'm I'm open. But yes, when they open their mouth, it goes totally the other way. And well, I'm open, but I won't do online. Well, I'm open, but I won't go and do this. Okay, well, that's not very open, you know. I mean, I was I was often online for 13 years, and people go, Are you kidding? I'm like, no. It wasn't the only thing I did, but it was it was one way of meeting people that I would have. My now husband lived two hours away, and he's very Catholic, and I'm very Protestant. So even though I would, oh, I would love to meet him at church on the my pew, I would have never met him. I would, I don't go to Catholic churches. I do now, but I mean, you know, uh we have this little we want the the story, you know, the the fall in love story to be grand. And 40% of people meet their people online. Well, you'd be a proponent if you met your guy online, right?

SPEAKER_02: 35:14

I mean well, let's see, I didn't end up meeting him online. I met him, well, kind of I mean, I wouldn't say online. It's an interesting story with him because we lived in the same neighborhood for a long time and we would both randomly walk to Kroger, and I didn't know him, but we had a mutual friend, and I never met him through the mutual friend. But this guy would wave to me at Kroger. I'm like, I don't know you, I don't know why this guy's waving at me. This was like eight or 10 years ago, and I'm like, but if I ever had a chance to meet him, and you know, God put me, you know, if if that would then I would want to meet him, you know what I mean? Like I was like, I definitely would want to meet him, and then we eventually did in 2020 through a mutual friend, you know what I mean? So it's like a mix of like because somehow he had started following on Instagram. So did I meet him online? It was kind of you know a mixed story there, but um, but I do when it okay, I want to for just a moment, you mentioned, you know, being Protestant and your husband being Catholic. How important do you find that sharing similar faith um would be in in any relationship, whether you're because I now have come to a place where um, like I said, I was born raised Methodist. My background uh at the University of Louisville was in religious studies, and I uh also am drawn to the um Eastern philosophies as well. However, I don't want to say I've gravitated back towards, I'm just a little bit I'm spiritual, but definitely think God needs to be at the center, actually. I might not have said even 10 years ago or even five years ago. Yeah. Um, but I think that you know, when you're talking whether it's young women or young men or adult, I real when it doesn't really matter. Like when you are are choosing a lifelong partner, how you know do you see it working when you have someone maybe who isn't of faith and then one who is.

SPEAKER_00: 40:14

Yeah. If you are a Christian, if you are a Christian, you are always going to want, and I don't care if you're a baby Christian or you've been in the faith since you were born, you're you're gonna want someone, as the Bible says, equally yoked. Okay. Now that doesn't mean you're comparing, like, oh, you go every week and I go once a month. You're not, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about are you walking in the way of Jesus? Okay. Now, um, so for me it was huge. In fact, my prayer was to find somebody that loves Jesus more than me.

SPEAKER_01: 40:44

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00: 40:44

And he brought me David. And David is uh, like I say, very Catholic. I'm very proud. We go to double church every week. And I I could sit there and go, oh, but I don't believe this about the Catholic faith. And who he could say, oh, but I don't. We rise above that and we are we believe in God and we walk with Jesus. And and so we we keep the main thing, the main thing, and don't fight over all the little man-made things that we put in our path. Now, if you're an atheist and uh a Christian, the atheist needs to know they're gonna uh their partner's gonna do everything they can to bring them over because that's what believers do, you know. If you're both atheists, not a problem. If you're both baby Christians, not a problem. I mean, um, I think it's more of a problem when you have one of a strong faith. And I mean, every single one of my clients, if if they are Christian, that's number one on their list, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 41:40

And that's okay.

SPEAKER_00: 41:41

And it's okay if it's not number one on your list, but also needs to not be number one on their list, you know. And I went out with several atheists. Um I I just didn't go into it thinking they were gonna be my guy, but there was there was, you know, one guy was so sweet, he's like, I'll always go to church with you. I just don't believe. And I'm like, you know, I I love that about you, and that's gonna serve you well with someone else, but like it's it's a big fat hairy deal to me, you know. And it's just one of those conversations you have in really early dating, you know, or you know, another thing is um the reason you want to date over time and don't go quickly is because do they do what they do and say what they say? Like they go, Oh yeah, I'm a Christian, I go to church every week, but then you date them, and then on Sunday morning they're like, you know, I'm tired. Let's let's go to the park instead, you know, or let's like you look at their behavior and see um if they are who who they say they are.

SPEAKER_02: 43:49

So you golly, you you just said something that I wanted to um mention. You said um, oh goodness, I'm gonna I can it's this paramenopause brain, I have to be really honest. Um you were saying, okay, you were saying, um, let me think about what you were doing. Equally yoked, equally yoked, um, watching their behavior, um with something around that, and I'm drawing a blank, but um I it might come back, it probably will. Okay, okay. So, okay, so when people do start dating and and uh what kinds of um mistakes, what do you think the biggest one make biggest mistake?

SPEAKER_00: 44:30

Um single sleeping together, sleeping together right away. That's uh hands down. And in my book, I did um I've got several statistics about sex, and I even did my own little unofficial like um survey, and I was appalled at the number of people the next time around, fall into a friends with benefits relationship. And you know, they dated, but then they broke up. And hey, until we meet someone, why don't we, you know, get it on over here? And like it was it's extremely prevalent. I was just I was really appalled at at how prevalent it it is. So um that I would say that's the number one mistake. That another mistake um is um uh again, putting blanket rules on things. Uh so like let's say let's say you go on a date and you like each other and you go out again and you know the girl says, Oh, that was a red flag for me. Well, it might be a pink flag to me. It might be a green flag to you, like you know, they'll just put these blankets, like, and then they'll just like I just gotta break up. Well, there's something going on inside of them, probably their attachment style, right? They're right. They're anxious avoidant or or avoidant, or you know, maybe somebody goes too fast. One person, oh my gosh, you're the best person I've ever met. And the other person is like, well, I'm just casually dating right now. You know, like being at the wrong in the wrong place at the uh, you know, being at different. I always say that dating is 90% timing and 99% are not the one. So the 90% timing thing has to do with being in the same place at the same time. You're both looking for love, or you don't want sex only, you're going toward marriage or not going toward marriage. I mean, um, yeah, it's a it's a fine, it's not a fine line, it's a squiggly line to to navigate and figure all that out. And that's why you have to date. You have to date to learn that. You can read all the books that there are out there, and I have read hundreds of dating books, and I've written several. Um, but until you go and do, until you go and do the dating, it's not, you don't learn it in the same way. Your head knows it, but your heart says all sorts of different things.

SPEAKER_02: 46:46

So, okay, and that but that what you said, something that you said kind of trigger that memory. It's like, okay, so when we're talking about dating and um, you know, having sex too early on, right? Sleeping together too early on, which I'm like 150 million percent believe that. Um being honest and upfront with your desires sooner than later, like, hey, I know I want to get married, that's my end goal. And if this guy doesn't, or this girl doesn't, or I want kids, like when do you bring those things up? Does that make it like people find themselves, you know, a year or two in and they've never even expressed the fact that, gosh, ultimately I want um, you know, a man that's going to be, you know, provide for me or you know, take care of or you know, a combination of things, right? It's a yeah, I want someone who will marry me. And yeah, I think that should be personally, I think it seems like the sooner you can share those things, the easier it is to move on. I'm not gonna say weed out, but you know, to know if you're on a moment in any way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 47:54

I would in my first three, I the first meet, I always call a meet and greet. Okay. So you meet online and and you go and you have a cup of coffee and you see if you like each other, want to go out again, right? I would say by the third date, I, this is what I did, I would say something like, So, um, do you eventually want to marry again? Are you pretty happy being a bachelor the rest of your life? And it it really opens up. And then now, if they're newly divorced, guess what? They're not ready near, ready, but then that opens that up. Are they still dog and their ex? Are they you know they're they're probably not healed? And and for me, who done did a lot of work and always does a lot of work on myself, we'll be like, you know, we're just we're not in the same place. That's that timing thing, right? He's got some healing to do, and so I might let him go just because we're just not in the same space. Um, there are some people in their 40s, some want kids and some don't want kids. That's huge. Yeah, now I will also tell you that if you ask somebody, you know, do you ever want to get married again? If they go, well, you know, I don't know. And you know, some women might go, Well, if you don't know, that's it. I I do, and and and they just write them off. And I wouldn't do that. So one of the perspectives I'll talk about in my book is called Discover, don't decide. Discover, don't decide. Let's just, and I did that with my husband. He was two hours away, and of course I was retired at the time, and he was too, so that made it a lot easier, and our kids were grown. But um, I said, you know what, let's just let's discover and don't decide. Let's don't make any decisions on what who we are and what we're gonna be. And we just dove in and God love him, he's dating a relationship coach, right? And so we read eight relationship books together, and he dove in with me and we discovered, and of course, being over COVID helped because you know, we had a lot of time that we could read and and discuss, and we wanted to do it right. He was a widower, I was a widow, so we, you know, we we know what loss is like and time is precious, but we also didn't want to just rush, rush, rush. So yeah, I'm rambling now, but I think I answered your question.

SPEAKER_02: 51:14

Yeah, I get it. It's like I always, you know, um, I it makes me think of that Dave Ramsay question or maybe question to ask. It's like you don't know it's a no until you ask. Like you have to, you you can't and and don't decide for the other person either, right? You can't just if you're not communicating, right?

SPEAKER_00: 51:30

Your desires and and I wouldn't ask it on a first date because that would scare a lot of people away. Like, do you want to get married again? And then the guy's like, uh, I I don't know, like I don't even know if I want to date, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 51:43

So do you think that that some maybe sometimes the way you approach that first date uh can uh influence whether I want to say one gets a call back?

SPEAKER_00: 51:55

Yeah, I think the first date should be about an hour. Um and it the goal is to see if you like each other to go out again, right? And you usually know that I hate to tell you, you know that in the first minute because of the energy the person, you know, if you texted a lot beforehand and you really know each other a lot, doesn't matter. I emailed a guy for weeks, which I do not recommend doing for weeks and weeks, and met him, and I felt nothing. I mean, it and his words, I can fall in love with words. His words were so amazing, but then yeah, so you know pretty quickly, and then um, you know, you want to leave at the height of interest. If things are going well, that's not when that order another drink. You say, you know, this has been great, and I would love to do it again, but you know, I gotta get, I gotta get down the road. And you want them you want to leave them wanting to go out again, and then that's how you get the second date, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 52:52

Yeah, that makes sense. So no, okay. So then do you feel um look my my the books that I've been reading really uh that masculine energy um male should be pursuing the female. That's that's my that's what I've decided.

SPEAKER_00: 53:08

So um sperm chases egg.

SPEAKER_02: 53:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 53:12

And they know it. Yeah, they know it. They they know they're supposed to be the one chasing.

SPEAKER_02: 53:16

And so, but again, with the newer messages, um, and and again, some of the cultural programming I see, you know, it's oh yeah, no problem. You can ask him out what's stopping you, you know, as a female. And uh the more and more I learned, um I I kind of I did I 100% disagree actually with that. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 53:38

So with online dating, I I learned a little bit. Uh I won't I I have the same perspective, but I will say what I learned to do was I would reach out, I wouldn't mind reaching out to the guy for the first time, and I would say something like this Hey, I really enjoyed reading your profile. Would you look at mine and let me know if there's any interest?

SPEAKER_01: 53:58

I make him look.

SPEAKER_00: 54:00

And if he looks and is not interested, I won't hear from him. If he is, I'll hear from him, and then you let him pursue. Do you know what I mean? Oh, I mean, it's okay to make him look. I mean, why do we fix our hair and wear nice clothes? We want him to look, right? But unless you say, Hey, I'm interested in you, will you or are you interested in me? And then you can let them pursue. But I can't tell you the number of women that do the and I I used to I used to do this, I used to be. The chaser early on, and I would be like, um I can't think of an example, but like I would be texting him instead of waiting for him to text me, or um, I would be pushing it along more than he would be pushing it along. And I learned really quickly, he's like, Oh, again, learned about the masculine and feminine energy, and you know, being a single mom and a school teacher and a leader, you know, it's very much in me to have that masculine energy. And I had to learn to step it down uh and let them pursue. You know, if they offer me their jacket instead of going, oh no, that's okay, I'm good. I go, sure, thank you. Because they're being masculine and I need to be feminine, you know what I mean? So yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 55:12

Yeah, it's funny that um you mentioned exactly that because I definitely uh have worked more towards like um receiving, right? Being stepping into that feminine and surrendering to that um masculine energy. Uh we would walk to Kroger, like I said, we met at Kroger, but then we would start walking to Kroger together and just my programming, and a lot of it's just programming that we've, you know, you know, with the times and the feminist movement, is like we don't, you know, Rosie the Riveter, we don't need any men. And he would offer to carry the grocery bags back. And, you know, it took me a little while to realize like, I know I've got this, you know, instead of just letting him, yeah, I'm capable of carrying the guard the grocery bags. Yeah, but I'm not going to since you're often going to let him do it. I'm gonna let him offer me the coat and I'm gonna put it on, even though I might not have even three years ago. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 56:13

Yeah, we learn as we go. And again, that's the importance of dating. You learn as you go, and that's why I think the the classes that I offer are really valuable because you're sitting in a whole room of people that are walking the same path as you are, and so we can bounce different ideas off of each other, we can, you know, ask questions. You know, Susie Q asks a question and everybody else has the same question, but they're scared to ask it. But, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 56:37

Yeah. So, so, so when you okay, so a lot of this um is relative to dating across the board, but what what do you think changes when you're out there for that next time around? Whether it's, you know, because you've lost your spouse um, you know, altogether, you know, become a become a widow, or if you know, you've gone through a divorce or whatever other myriad of things might happen. Um what do you think is why is it so different that next time around?

SPEAKER_00: 57:11

Well, a whole list of things. I know this is in my book somewhere, I don't know where it is, but um, you know, first you have most people have kids, and you know, when you marry the first time around, you're looking for a baby daddy or a baby mama, and you know, okay, you're kind of cool. I think I'll marry you, you know. Um, the next time around, you've got uh kids. Now I wouldn't call kids baggage, but for some people it they may consider that, right? Like uh I dated a guy with five kids. Now all my girlfriends ran from that. I love kids, I was a teacher. I I master at kids, you know, I could totally do that. Um, but somebody else might run, right? Or um we have houses now and we have investments and we have savings accounts and bank accounts, and um we have a set of in-laws that are no longer our in-laws, and we have, I mean, it's just it's so different the next time around. Uh, we have wrinkles, we have cellulite, we have, you know, there's there's uh uh women and men think, oh gosh, I you know, I could never be naked again. Like I who's gonna ever love me? I'm too fat, I'm too wrinkly, I'm too old, I'm too, and that's just so wrong because there are 80-year-olds looking for love, just like there are 60-year-olds and 40-year-olds, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 58:29

Oh, well, I mean, I just learned that uh STDs are rampant in nursing homes. Yep, yep. I mean, there's gotta be a reason why. That's right. Yeah, you know, um, and so you work with people and individuals to help them maybe overcome some of these uh, you know, maybe like self-created obstacles. Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 58:49

That you know, that they have given the confidence and and tools, and like we just finished a big body language class. Oh, it's so good. And I taught them different body language class, and men don't get it. I mean, they get it, but they don't get the signs as quickly as a woman. Their brain doesn't see it. They see a girl looking at them across the bar and they're like, Are they looking at me? And you know, the girl's smiling and waving, and they're like, Who are they smiling at? I mean, they just don't they don't receive it or pick up the clues as well. Um, and that's that's actually not a gender, uh it's a studied thing that the behaviorist that was doing the class taught us. But um, but yeah, it's uh I give them confidence to to go and do the thing. And whether the thing is online dating or if it's offline dating, or if it's how to communicate, if it's how to say no to sex, if it's how to um say no, I'm not interested. Like a lot of times singles just don't know how to wrap words around, I don't want to hurt their feelings. Well, hurting someone's feelings is on them, it's not on you. You're gonna be kind, but if they choose to be, you know, upset about it, that's their choice. They don't have to be.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:01

Right. Yeah, yeah. And and yeah, and and I think also um just in, you know, talking to some youngsters, and I say youngsters, my daughter's age, you know, there is that fear of hurting someone's feelings, so they can't have the conversation, like we've been hanging out, but I think I just see friendship, or you know, um, if one has been, um, or a people pleaser, or right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:30

Kind of attachment styles is huge because a secure attachment would be able to have a hard conversation and a pleaser would have trouble, an avoider will ghost you. I mean, it's it's the attachment styles really come out at at times of of rupture, right? Right. And so, but it's a great um, that's why I really wish kids that haven't had babies yet come to my attachment style class because they're gonna make the attachment style of our grandkids, you know, they're they're gonna make their kids' attachment style. Um, but uh it's also adulting, right? It's like you gotta have caught hard conversations, um, and you gotta learn how to do them in a kind way.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:15

Yeah, I know, I yeah, and it it is, it's difficult. I know that it can be uncomfortable, but um ultimately it it does foster deeper connection and vulnerability, and so it is important to be able to um, you know, stand in your power in an intentionally loving way to share what needs to be shared. Um I know you you uh you know, I I agree that there are men that I've spoken to who just have not picked up on the fact that a woman is hitting on them. Um what I and and then I was driving these two girls. Uh, this was like, I don't know, this was like early spring. And I was taking them to the bar, I was taking them up to O'Shea's, and I ended up videoing this because I was like, oh, what are you girls up to tonight? Oh, we're going to O'Shea's. She's trying to figure out if this guy likes her or not. I'm like, what do you mean? Well, she we don't really know, but they've gone out a bunch, and you know, they blah blah blah. You know, I can't remember all of the details, but she was literally bringing her friend to go to the bar to see if she thinks he likes, you know, her. And I was just like, what do you mean? I like, how do you know? And why also is it, and kind of what they kind of concluded in the car was that they feel like because um men, you know, and this toxic masculinity word is thrown around that men have become a little bit uh fearful of like really like stepping into their own in this and like acknowledging or claiming or or you know, stating like I really like you, but they're also get apparently this young man was kind of giving the signals, but kind of not, um, but just wouldn't like you know, take the next. Yeah, yeah. And so what do you think? Like, how do you know?

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:14

Okay, yeah, you 100%, you 100% know 100% of the time, and here's how. So there's high interest and middle interest and low interest. So high interest is he's texting you, he wants to see you, he's asking you out, he's pursuing you. That's high interest. No interest, low interest is uh the girl texts him, hey, how's your day? He goes, Good. Oh yeah, he's not asking her out, he's not chasing her, he's not pursuing her. That's low interest. That that's it's a no-brainer. And then in between, is like sometimes he'll text you, sometimes he won't. You might go out once every three weeks. What he's doing the next time around, anyway, is he's probably trying to figure out who he's gonna date. So online dating, you might be meeting three to five people a week, and that's there's nothing wrong with that. You're not committed to anybody, you're just going out and having a cup of coffee, and you're not even kissing them, you're not even holding their hand, you know, you're you're just meeting, meeting, meeting, greeting. And so you might be one of three or five people he's talking to, and he wants to keep you hanging because he's like, Well, you know, I had a good time with her, but I'm just gonna meet this other girl tomorrow night. I want to wait until, you know, so that's that's mental interest. So, what that girl needs to do is uh wait for him to text first and you go on, you go and meet other people, and you go on with your full life, and don't pine and wonder. And does he like me or doesn't he like me? You'll know if he likes you. Sperm chases egg, they know to pursue. You can't stop a man from liking you, and you can't make a man like you. You you see the difference? I mean, you you can't if a man looks at a woman and goes, That's my girl, he's gonna go, he's gonna go and chase that girl. And if he's not, and the girl's chasing him, there's nothing you can do or say to make him like you. He's gonna like you or not like you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:22

So no, absolutely. I I mean, I uh again, uh in reading some of these more recent books, I I um 100% agree. I could say that in the past, I gosh, I don't know which attachment style it would be, but where I have actually, you know, made that first move and initiated the first call, or even um did a follow-up, right? Because I wasn't hearing back. Uh, and that could be anxious, I'm not sure. Um, but that you will know, right? They will pursue definitely that gal in the book who wrote getting to I do, you will know they will pursue you.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:05

Yeah. And then there's nothing that feels better, right? I mean, you're just oh my gosh, this is this is what it feels like. This is the way it's supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:13

Okay, so like once you get into this relationship, and do you think um uh the um man, the masculine energy should be that claiming energy, should be the one saying, Will you be my girlfriend? or I want to be exclusive, or do you um see that as you know, the woman suggesting that, or should the woman be very patient and waiting for that?

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:44

There's there's a lot of different ways to look at that, and I really need to know a little bit more about the their dynamic of it, you know, as a couple, but yeah, um, I love this this perspective I'm getting ready to tell you about. So, like let's say um we're dating and I'm crazy about him, and I think he's crazy about me, but we haven't had that conversation of are we exclusive or or not? If you are the man or the woman, I think you could, and again, I would have to know the dynamic and how secure they are in their relationship, but um you could say, you know what, I've decided I am going to close my profile and I'm not gonna see anybody else. Now, you don't have to. You can keep dating people, uh, but I'm just letting you know my side. Now, one of two things will happen, right? They're gonna be like, Yeah, I'm not ready for that, and whatever, and they're gonna you probably will end up breaking up only because you're in different places, or or they are like, Yeah, me too. Let's see where this goes. And that's where you go to discover, not decide. Yeah, you decide that you're exclusive, but like that doesn't mean you jump into bed the next day, and you know, you're all you're saying is I'm gonna not see anybody else at the at this time.

SPEAKER_02: 1:08:01

Okay, so would you would you wait to um to sleep with them until after you have that exclusivity conversation?

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:11

So I would uh no right, no, no, no. I didn't think that since I did not say it's good. Yeah. What I would do is still, so again, this morphed over my single years to where I I would say something like this I think sex is the greatest thing God created, but I'm not gonna go there until I know that I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with someone. Wow. They might think, well, that could be a long time. Uh-huh. Yep. I don't know. I'm not putting the time on it. It might be four months from now, it might be seven months from now, but it'll be it'll it won't it won't be that long. I'm gonna know if you're if you're my guy, uh, you know, six months, because you want to observe behaviors. If you say, Okay, we're exclusive, okay, good, now we can have sex. Have you met their mama? Have you met his kids? Have you gone to church together? Have you prayed together? Have you had a holiday together? Have you had a fight? You need to fight a lot. You want to know how they fight. Do they yell? Do they uh and you're not gonna see that in three months?

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:22

Everybody's on their best behavior. You may not see that for six months. So if you go all in and say, okay, the third date, let's exclusive, let's not see anybody else, that should not mean let's have sex right away, because there's so much to still discover. Like there was one couple, they got engaged at six months. Okay, so they dated, got engaged at six months, and then came deer season. And he was a totally different person during deer season. And then came Christmas. And that was to, I mean, it was like you haven't even I always say date every season, right? Go through every season of the year before you get married, um, for obvious reasons, right? I mean, what are they like at the holidays? And and by then you have met their family and you do know how he treats his mama or his kids or the ex-wife or the ex-husband. I mean, there's just so much to discover. So I think I think still waiting makes you of high value because heck, anybody can say, let's be exclusive and let's have sex, and then you've done that in the first, I don't know, month? 90% chance that you're not going to be together in a year. Because those are just words, they're not actions yet.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:41

Yeah. Uh I you um okay, so you mentioned X and the way they treat, like you said, I agree. Seeing um, like seeing all four seasons and the holidays and how they treat others, um, even in a restaurant setting per se. Um when it comes to an ex, I think it's important that I mean this is just me and what I've come to conclude that you know, maybe I I think it's important that one speaks less negatively about that person. I'm not sure. Like, I think it it it I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:23

I any well, it doesn't serve anybody. So, like if you broke up, obviously there were reasons that you broke up. And if children are involved and it's that it's their daddy, then they have to come up with their own, you know, you want them to keep uh the daddy relationship is so important with kids. Like, not that the mama isn't, but there's something about a missing daddy that makes them you know a little bit different when they go into relationship. So that's a whole nother set of work that I do with clients on um the way that you think about and and speak about, and it needs to be uh, you know, obviously something you work through, but where you get to a place of love and and wish them well, and um yeah, it doesn't serve anybody to dog the other person. In fact, it shows more about your character than theirs.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:17

Yeah. So I know that you again you do a lot of work with um couples. What is the main main thing that if there's like a main course um that you work with when you work on clients as it pertains to dating? It sounds like we've covered many of them already, but if there's like one main are you talking couples now? Are you talking singles? Or are you talking well? I mean, I guess I don't know. I know because we were talking, let's talk couples. Yeah, what would be the main thing there? And and and do you think that the man the man should continue to pursue his wife once they're you know, if if that makes you know, pursue?

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:01

I think the man should always pursue, but I mean it's obviously gonna look different, you know. The girl, the woman might say, Hey, let's go to Cancun for New Year's, right? She might well, okay, you know, that's okay. Like you're gonna both initiate things, but um, you know, the man always needs to pursue. Here, here's my perspective of marriage. So the Bible even says this the purpose of marriage is to point people to God. So if that is uh if your relationship is not doing that, that's where the work is. If your relationship is doing that, that's where the work is. You know why? Because it's really hard to stay there. And the only way that you point people to God in a marriage is by serving. So I serve you, which makes me want to serve, you know, I serve you, which makes you want to serve me, which makes me want to serve you, and all you do is serve one another. And everything that I do for my husband is because it's important to him, and and then vice versa. You know, I might say, We need to, we need to, you know, do the laundry before we go on vacation. And the next minute he's doing the laundry. I'm like, well, I didn't mean now. He goes, nope, let's do it now. You know, like he'll he'll just lead that way. But um, and and there's a ton of other things that I and I love the topic. I I I definitely love the topic, but it, you know, from love, love languages to uh how to communicate. To attachment styles, to how to have a hard conversation. I mean, like all the things.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:35

Um so yeah. And and so, okay, and then people can find you. I know that's you've written you remind me the name of your book. I forgot.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:43

Well, my first book is called First Date, Next Mate, and the subtitle is Perspectives in Dating the Next Time Around. And then my next book is called How to Find Love Again. And um, I have a class that's the class I do four times a year about finding love again. It's very short. I make no money on that book. It's my gift back to the singles world. Um, it's like five bucks. I mean, it's it's$525 or something like that. And then I have a dating log and I explain kind of how to use a dating log. Um those are all the yeah, I also write sweet romance, but those are my those are my dating books.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:21

Awesome. And then what your website is love.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:25

Okay, it's long. Love and laughterlifecoaching.com. And there are all of my packages, like how much it costs to coach with me. I don't put current um classes up. I mean, I tell about the classes I do, but I do everything on Facebook. I organize all my groups. I have a life, love and dating group, I have a connecting couples group, which I need to add you to. Um and we're signing up.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:48

I've already signed us up. No, I really, but I'm going to.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:54

Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I love, I love what I do. I I love love. I'm a lavaholic, and I um I just want people to find better ways to to love each other in any relationship. Might be a a a parent child. I work with a lot of couples on how their kid has moved away and doesn't ever talk to them. And well, there's a reason. And you know, so we kind of talk through that and uh might be a work relationship, you know, just really any relationship. But um, yeah, I definitely my niche is working with next time around singles. And you know, some people hire me for three sessions and I help them and they move on, and some people do you know a whole year long or they'll come to classes, which is of course cheaper. It's only seven dollars to come to class, it's a lot more to hire me as a coach, but you know, you can go deeper and work on really personal stuff that you may not say in a group.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:40

And I I find, you know, even um uh so much of what I read, uh I mean, well, in particular um when it comes to the divine masculine and feminine, those energetic poles uh and and uh essences has helped, you know, with the relationship also with my son, you know, it's gonna be different than with my daughter because you know, so I I find that when you it it you know, a lot of these um tools, you know, work in of like you said, work with um siblings, uh children. It's not a friendships, you know, it's not just um, but you know, the love relationship is a different relationship because there is the romantic uh part of that and and and the joining of two souls, you know, literally and physically, right? And so it's different than you know, some of your other relationships, which is why um, and but you know, when you're learning to cultivate connection in any way, I just think it's valuable. And then that usually like right leads to that ripple effect and and just extends out, you know, to that greater um collective. So I really appreciate what you're doing. I'm so glad we got to have this conversation today because I know that um dating, you know, from the mixed uh age groups that I get to be with um specifically, you know, when I'm driving Lyft and Uber, which uh oftentimes is on like just the dinner time hour on I feel like I feel like I need to give you a stack of business cards and say here to call this lady if you have trouble because you know there's so many singles that are just trying to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:27

I mean, I could save them years. Like I made dating mistakes, I made all the bad decisions early on. I mean, uh not all of them, but you know, I mean, a lot of bad mistakes. And I mean, I could just save people years of agony.

SPEAKER_02: 1:18:41

Um, so yeah, I should one day I was joking with these guys because they were having a hard time. And I was like, Well, do you all have the same like profile picks? It's like is you know, do you have a hat on in one, like hat backwards in another? You've cut out a woman in another photograph, but you're wearing a suit. Like, and it's funny, like, how did you know? I'm like, wow, everybody's posting the same photos, it's just a different person, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:06

And that's an easy thing to learn. That's that's an easy thing to learn. But yeah, they don't learn it until they learn it, though, right? Until someone says, Take your ball cap off, take your sunglasses off. You need a headshot, you need a body shot, you know. Yeah, have a picture of your motorcycle without you on it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:21

I mean, yeah, yeah, it's just it was funny. But yeah, I should I should um get uh I'll get a stack of your business cards when I um when we come to the pr in person class in January.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:33

Yeah, perfect.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:34

Well, thank you, Elizabeth. I really don't that many Elizabeths, so it's cool to Elizabeth.

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:42

Yeah, it was great. Thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:45

Yeah, you're welcome. Have a great day. Okay, you two, bye.