The Masters Athlete Survival Guide
We explore thriving as an athlete after 40. Each episode, we’ll dive into tips, hacks, and inspiring stories from seasoned athletes and our personal experience. Whether you’re a weekend warrior or a competitive pro, this podcast is your playbook for staying fit, strong, and motivated
The Masters Athlete Survival Guide
The Movement Linguist: Why Your Body Needs to Speak All Languages with John Odden
Check out John's YouTube channel Empowered Strength and IG @empowered strength for more of his ideas and insights
John Odden shares his journey as a Highland Games competitor, fitness professional, and movement enthusiast who's discovered the key to athletic longevity after 40.
• Background in healthcare, cardiac rehab, and multiple strength sports including Highland Games and stone lifting
• Importance of technical precision in training as we age to reduce wear and tear on the body
• Moving in all directions and planes to maintain mobility and function
• Training more frequently but with shorter, more focused sessions
• Combining structured training with unscripted play to maintain athletic joy
• Prioritizing animal-based nutrition with strategic carbohydrates for performance
• Finding your optimal body weight for both health and athletic performance
• Taking a mindful approach to supplementation focused on basics like creatine and magnesium
• Including family in health and training goals creates sustainable lifestyle changes
• Maintaining childlike movement curiosity while respecting your body's changing needs
Stay tuned for a future episode including John's guide on realistic weight cutting for competitions that works for both men and women.
@masters_athlete_survival_guide on IG
New episodes come out every other Thursday!
Welcome to the Master's Athlete Survival Guide, where we explore the secrets to thriving in sports after 40. I'm John Catalinas and, along with Scott Fyke, we'll dive into training tips, nutrition hacks and inspiring stories from seasoned athletes who defy age limits. Whether you're a weekend warrior or a competitive pro, this podcast is your playbook for staying fit, strong and motivated. Let's get started and we're back. Hey, I'm John. Today, I'm still Scott. Yeah, I love that intro. And we have a very cool guest today, john Oden, who is not related to any Norse gods at all.
Speaker 2:Not that I know of, hey you can always start a trend.
Speaker 3:I think you're related to a Norse god, so I mean, if I say it's so, it's so.
Speaker 2:I did do my 23andMe as much as I may regret it with whatever information gets leaked out and all the conspiracy stuff. But I do have almost full, you know, northern European ancestry, so it's kind of cool to have you know that little bits of history at least too yeah, you know I did that and I thought myself pretty much nothing, but because, like my dad was lithuanian and you know, okay all my oh my god, all my relatives are giants.
Speaker 1:They're just he was latvian. Yeah, no, sorry, stop it, but my mom forever said and this is appropriate this weekend was like she's irish, she is irish, she's scottish. I am so scottish. It's like and you know, you know the deal, john. How many times at highland games people ask you well, so are you scottish? And I'd always be like uh, not even a little bit.
Speaker 1:And if you go, to yeah sort of if you go to canada they'd be like oh, what's your, what's your tartan? I'm like I thought it looked cool. Does that count?
Speaker 3:it's. It was the least expensive one at uh sports kilt.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's some weird welsh one, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, whatever yeah, I've heard it, heard it all, I think, from. I think the worst, um, whatever stressor or knock that I ever got was my first games. Um, we were wearing it. If it's a team games for our local hospital that we were we're all part of, and the lady, one of the vendors was just like you need to know this history, what you know, what kilter you're wearing, and just getting this whole lecture. So I was, you know, it was about the most negative thing of the day. I was like I I didn't know anybody. This was just our know team kilt that we picked out and just like that from sport kilt. It just reminds me of exactly that. You're just like I like. I like that one and I know I'm. I'm okay with that overall.
Speaker 1:Well, before we get into introducing you, there is an important question, given where we've gotten to right now, how many 70 slash 80 year old women have lifted your kilt over your career because for me. I bet you, it's 10 maybe, maybe a handful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I maybe don't uh a little ptsd or something I don't remember.
Speaker 1:You probably don't.
Speaker 3:We try to forget those things, john, I know it clearly is the most blatant like like there.
Speaker 1:We had a pretty great games here that was in amongst a very wooded park and they had benches all over the place and you know, between events you'd sit on a bench and invariably the front row would be. You know, grandma, that somebody plunked down there because she couldn't walk anymore and always I would look down and my kilt would be like up around my waist and she's like you're not traditional and I'm like, oh, thank god I'm not right.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, regimental came from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right so, john, on that note, could, uh, you introduce ourself yourself to our audience?
Speaker 2:please get me away do my best and, uh, we could go go a lot of places without, too, you know, just on a professional excuse me, end of things I I like to make sure people know I often don't don't talk about this. I think we talked about this ahead of time too. Having a background that is quite eclectic within the health care fitness world, um, you know, which I think is a really good foundation, having worked with, uh, everything from employee wellness and just doing you know, community health side of things, and and then digging into this cardiac rehab world, pulmonary rehab, which I did not, you know, go. I went and did my exercise science degree because it was like, well, there's nothing else, that's just totally jumping out at me. I knew I wanted to be something in healthcare science and I get to train people and do this.
Speaker 2:You know, strength coaching side of things was, was the, you know, typical guy, in my era at least, was wanting to get people strong and lift and all that. And thankfully it's caught on as a, you know, huge worldwide, you know, research driven. It's got so much more clout to it. But, you know, that's kind of been my professional road. So did my gym private training facility moved to Bend, oregon, in 2015. And, uh, I've competed in the Highland game since working at the hospital setting in 2004.
Speaker 2:So something I take a lot of pride in and have had, you know, my hand in in, I guess you could say, all different strengths sports. I guess I technically haven't competed in powerlifting, but I've, I've competed, you know, and I'm happy to share. Not, you know, I'm definitely not good at all of them, but there's been a few successes and lots of lessons along the way. But, um, everything from olympic lifting, strong man, um, you know, just these odd strength tests I've gotten, you know, john, and I've actually talked with a little bit about grip training over the last couple years too, I've got got much more into the arm lifting side. I want to compete now and you know, john, and I have actually talked with a little bit about grip training over the last couple of years, got much more into the arm lifting side. I want to compete now and you know, it's like I love having something to compete in, some new skill, something I can go, like had planned to go do the Hoosfell Stone 2020.
Speaker 2:All the COVID shutdowns, this, that and the other, I was maybe devastated, a little bit strong, but I was, I was. It was a hard, hard pill to swallow just to turn 40. So, you know, I consider that a master's athlete, although you look at some some sports right and it's it's 30 or or some masters.
Speaker 2:Yeah, depending on where you can tip.
Speaker 2:That was like my master's kickoff and I had been to Scotland for two, you know, two years before that um done really got into the stone lifting culture and, you know, really like the just physical culture.
Speaker 2:I love the science or I like to think I'm a balance of that, a little bit of wisdom from that, you know, older populations, that cardiac rehab side, and again, I just got such diversity. Literally in the same day I could be working with an elderly patient in the morning or vice versa, and then doing some work around the physical therapy clinic kind of, you know, being able to bounce around was was a blessing and a curse, and then I'd be working with the high school athletes in the afternoon evening. So just being able to, you know, really pay attention and look at these especially, like you know, naturally we're going to talk about the longevity and the and the, you know, graceful aging or what. Longevity is just a weird word in itself. I think that people have an idea what that means, but I think I have a you know some, some ideas on how to maybe, uh, have some checks and balances and in reality, checks maybe to that too along the way yeah, I like the new term that.
Speaker 1:Uh, I think peter attah tends to coin health span.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know if you've read outlive his book.
Speaker 2:I have it's pretty good. Yeah, yeah, I believe it. You know, it's been for quite a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's very medical based, but it's it's. It's pretty great. Now, before we move on, uh, two things. Are you pandering to the hosts considering where that scott and I are planning to go in 2026?
Speaker 2:to iceland and do the husafel because I feel like, no, not at all.
Speaker 1:So clearly, that's that's what that must speak to old men, right like we're old.
Speaker 3:Now let's go lift a rock you said it and, honest to god, john and I are in the studio. We both turn and look at each other ear to ear. Grins came, like he has to know. Yeah, no, and I didn't think he did.
Speaker 1:And what's funny is I actually have an icelandic flag flying in front of my house because I just need this constant. I need this constant reminder that hey there you go that rock is waiting and you can't bluff your way through 408 pounds or whatever ridiculous thing amen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm actually looking at my islamic flag right now too. No, no joke, see, right there next to my american flag and my scottish flag in my office area that's turned into kind of a just collection of all my, my, uh, I hate to say trophies, but just just a mix of everything over the years from from the games and just just meaningful stuff that my wife was kind enough to, you know, let me. Let me put up, or even help me put up as a, as an artist herself she's. She's good at organizing and creating a space out of all the mismatch that could just be thrown up on the wall or whatever to her, thrown in a, you know, thrown in a um thrown it somewhere like a shadow box, or yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, that's a story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean that stuff that we sort of get. It's not the, the bowling trophies and there's nothing against those in and of itself. It's those extra things, you know, like we've taken at the gym to giving out swords for awards and stuff like that, and it's those type of things that sort of are our visual scars that tell our story a little bit.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, oh yeah I mean, if you look around my office right, well, I'm sorry, if you look around aurora studios right now, um you'll, you'll see nothing but shadow boxes and swords, because those are clearly the things that it's like. Oh that, that was awesome I will always remember orcan dragon head.
Speaker 1:Oh, and the dragon head, but whatever, whatever different different conversation, so you did touch again other pandering to, uh, your host you sort of mentioned a word that I use a lot because I did it in my career is the pivoting between sports. So I came out of collegiate track and field, went into highland, went into strongman. Now is in grip. Moving on a little to stone lifting um where in your? Journey and I've seen you through all of it. Where would you say you are right now?
Speaker 2:uh well, I'm in a very uh level headed, intelligently programmed. I'm doing a lot more jumping. You know, trying I'm getting back, getting that back ahead. I could go on. You know we've all had injuries, but I love learning from injuries and I say you know the gift of injury. I think it was a book by I forget who wrote that a few years ago, but I do love to learn so much from my injuries.
Speaker 2:I had plantar fasciitis this time last year. That was just a beat to to get over, so I could not jump for the life of me without you know very much, just changing my mechanics, put it that way and like everything was was shifted. So to get that back, I'm just like a, you know, feel like a kid again with that ability, that overall athleticism. But I am competing in a week and a half in sherman, texas. I get to go down there and enjoy the sun, while you know we still have snow on the ground and the, at least in the mornings here, kind of clears off. But it's a kind of that dragon on weather and that too.
Speaker 2:But I'm just enjoying the, the being being intelligent, with it being much more technical, like you know, doing what I say, not what I do, kind of thing too, rather than than like, okay, let's go out and throw, like here is the plan and I'm I'm working on some things with some of my um more online oriented clients and that, and I think it can turn into something I won't uh, we'll put it out there yet, but something bigger as far as a book or a manual or something. You know just the how to uh here's. You know just the how to here's. You know shooting video and doing all this. Really, and you guys know this too we can get better technically. There's no downside to that. Besides, our brain gets tired, gets fried. I think if we're technically moving better, you know, there's less wear and tear on our bodies and we're using that mind to develop, to believe that I can push into some areas that I at least haven't been for a long time is.
Speaker 3:It's pretty cool feeling and, of course, being injury free is is something that it's pretty good this year oh yeah, but I think you're you hit on something there and I apologize for jumping in on you here that idea of increasing our technical ability or how we do, something that has saved me in numerous competitions, and in many instances I can move more faster than athletes that are significantly younger because my technique is better.
Speaker 1:Right, you're efficient. Smooth goes far right, exactly Right yeah, well, it's funny. Before we go too far, john, I need to preface this. The other question I meant to ask as a proxy for the listeners how old are you?
Speaker 2:I am 45 now.
Speaker 1:Welcome to it, brother so.
Speaker 3:I found, I found John.
Speaker 1:I found John from the water bottle drill, which is in proto YouTube, john put up a video on how to throw weight over bar.
Speaker 2:That was you and he still put it out first, but yeah, okay it's all been spun around and again yeah, I don't, it's, it's been around give credit for sure when I, whenever I can, but sometimes we just it's lost, yeah coach friend said that too. It's like the first first time they say it, I give you credit. The second time they say it's somebody I know, and the third time it's mine or something like that it's fine, whatever, yeah, we're all it's all been done before I think right I think.
Speaker 1:I mean you know this was early youtube. It definitely was before the word influencer was out and it was clearly just you doing really solid, clear coaching on a drill that is like invaluable for that thing in highland games so I found I found john that way and then, you know, the digital love affair started and I pay attention to his content and you know john's doing bear crawls and rolling around on the ground and swinging indian clubs and all the things.
Speaker 1:It like you'd cringe because I was. I mean, you know I power lifted for a while so I was very strong in three planes for a bit. Yep, and you know the deal. Everything you was, you were doing was just exposes every you know like a deep lunge like I. I think I just made myself shudder thinking about a deep lunge right now yeah, I can.
Speaker 2:I get that from the sides again, from the extreme elderly, deconditioned folks to just um other friends and just always talking to you know other. I was a. I was a pro for four years and a relative heavyweight very small heavyweight in the game. So I have literally competed now in like every class that I'm been eligible along the way, so so that's kind of cool too. But you know just all those different week I just get excited about and other people just you know my wife will compliment me or other coaches like you're willing to do these odd or take on a new challenge, and I'm like it's just so innate for me. I really don't even have to think about it. There's no extra, you know, effort or energy into that too. It's just this is just what I do. I'm curious about this, maybe to a fault sometimes, like still lifting while I'm prepping for handling games. I could tell you that story didn't didn't turn out quite as as well in that 2020 era when I dug into that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, please do, let let's get into it, because we just had a couple stone lifters on and they are an an interesting breed and we had a great conversation with both.
Speaker 2:Uh oh yeah, john johnson and sean urquhart I did listen to sean's podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sean's great, I mean there sean is basically a historian who just happens to be strong exactly yeah, I love, love, that that's more of my interest than ever too is like how can we or why would we not, you know people again?
Speaker 2:I could go off on a highland game specifically, but any sport, to not know the history just seems such a natural thing, or some of the people that brought us here and honoring their legacy, or whatever you want to call it, to just make so much sense. But anyways, with the, with the Stones 20 coming into 2020 or COVID era, I was really fully dedicated to snowmlifting, but I had decided, of course, it's like, well, maybe I can sneak in here and do do Highland Games, and the first one worked out fine, and then the second one I've been having. You guys probably know this too, and if you've heard of guys like one of my coach friends who had you know, find the guy who's lifted the hoots of all stone and get him to you know, bug him until he'll help you or tell you to screw off or something too, but one of the ways.
Speaker 2:That's what we do yeah, mark wechter, who's been around the? Games and strongman world for a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and mark may be the most efficient athlete I think I've ever seen in the Highland Games.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, that's fair. And of course he suggested doing lots of RDLs and really condition the hamstring tendons and that. But I had, let's just say, a scare mild meniscus issue and it was right. The day before I was planning to literally get down on one knee and propose to my wife. The day before I planning to literally get down on one knee and propose to my wife that it all did, did, end in all the all as well.
Speaker 2:That end well but I was out in Montana like the first, literally the first throw of the games. I was actually competing with Mark for my first time throwing or second time throwing as a 40 year old. Uh, so it was. It was one of those, this boat, you know, the knee just just felt that twinge and buckle and I'm like I'm lucky to be walking, I think, right now. So that was a very, uh, you know, awareness thing, because I've thankfully never had other, uh, knee injuries besides. You know just some tendonitis stuff in high school or whatever.
Speaker 2:It was like, wow this is just this knee is just garbage right now.
Speaker 2:I don't know and then thankfully, two weeks later it's like oh, you know, I think we're gonna be okay. I don't know. Thankfully, two weeks later it's like oh, you know, I think we're going to be okay. I don't need a MRI, just checking in with some of my PT buddies and getting some some opinions there, making sure I'm not getting too far out of myself. So I was able to get back into uh training and that was when, again, the COVID, covid shutdowns and uh all that I wasn't able to go over to Iceland. Two trips got canceled. So I still was able to kind of make that shift. But I think that's a good lesson.
Speaker 2:Like what you were saying too, you're moving in three different. You know basic planes of motion here, not even outside of the. You know the transverse plan, all that rotational stuff. But, um, I had put myself so much in that position for uh nine, 10 months. I was fully, you know, fully immersed in that all winter long and that's all. I tried to document a fair amount of that on my old um Instagram stuff too. It was fun to share all these lists like out in the snow in a way, yeah, sometimes barefoot, but you know you can't mix too many different, uh painful modalities, I think, or you're just gonna suffer needlessly.
Speaker 1:But I love the mental image. The mental image you gave me is the best. I have a mental image of you getting down on one knee to propose to your now wife and then having to look her square in the eye and say will you marry me? And when she said yes, then you had to say can you help me up Can?
Speaker 2:you help me stand up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was like, yeah, this is the start of what it's going to be like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was just getting started. You sure you want me. You know I'm a little defective and ironically, just to touch on that you mentioned, like other things I'm doing, and I've gently guided her. Just kind of it's like these ideas just come to you and you throw them out there and see what sticks for anybody, everybody, and really got her excited about powerlifting. So she's 52. So well into her master's career and she's competing in her first powerlifting meet. So I said I've never done a powerlifting meet, but you know we're gonna figure this out and we're gonna're gonna, you know, bring in some other coach friends into the mix. So I'm not just writing all your programming and getting in my own way and she's just doing great with it. She's gonna have a great, great first meet.
Speaker 2:I won't won't put her on the spot too much yet, but nice, she's got a lot of potential as a very petite, and she competes in the highland games too at 120 pounds.
Speaker 1:Oh God, talk about Rudy, not 400. 100 and nothing. She's supposed to be 420 pounds.
Speaker 2:She is probably especially in the Masters realm and came into the sport at 110 and barely five foot tall and she's all around and technically really enjoying it and improving. She came in right when we, you know, got serious in 20 2020. So it's a cool you know journey for her and getting her out of that mindset of like no, you're not, you're not a beginner in the games anymore. Like you're, you've earned, earned that you're five years into it.
Speaker 1:So and I'm sure she's gonna love the fact that you just shared her weight with the internet.
Speaker 3:That's a solid move, brother, and you are so screwed.
Speaker 2:Right now, john, I have a pretty comfortable couch if you need somewhere to hang out for a while. Thank you, of course it's a little bit of a road trip from oregon.
Speaker 1:A bit of a road trip, but whatever well we'll see where uh where the road takes me right. I understand.
Speaker 3:So help our folks out a little bit here. You know you've talked a little bit about some of the things you've done. You talk a little bit about your professional forties. Have you changed the way you look at what you're doing? Have you changed the, the approach that you're taking and talked a little bit about you know being more technical, but what other things you know? Have you seen change that you know some of our listeners might look at?
Speaker 2:Oh sure, yeah, Great, great topic. And, and as much as I really wanted to hit the ground running and was on that track, definitely that injury, I can blame the pandemic. You know, we got hammered here in oregon with being a gym owner and my wife going through her transition with her business, and that too. So you know, all this, a lot of light stuff, a lot of great light stuff, but it was just a heavy, you know, heavy time. So I, you know, I didn't didn't quite hit that accomplishment. I did win masters, masters worlds in 2021.
Speaker 2:Um, that's a lightweight, you know, for my first, first games in the 40 to 44 class. So I had, you know, some success, but I definitely didn't feel I still I'll leave it at a good place to lead into right now Excuse me, just turning 45. It's like I have haven't achieved that potential in the forties, I believe. So enough of that hunger and reality checks and again, talking to other coaches and people that are older and wiser, and you know all that. Then then me, it's like there's there's more and and really, like I said, the, the precision work, the discipline having, like we had talked about earlier before we got on air, to just reality. We, you know, in our into our 40s, hopefully, have our careers fairly settled and and our lifestyles and family stuff. So it's like there's there's nothing, nothing there to hide behind anymore. I have have the gym space, you know, right on my property. Now I've built the dream as far as having all the equipment and, you know, underweight implements and all all this creative, you know geeky stuff that I love to get into, but just proud that I guess most of all and maybe takeaways for people, of course to uh just staying, staying hungry, staying excited, being a kid, you know, getting out there literally and playing and moving in all these different ways, like you kind of mentioned with me. I've just always done that and that's just as exciting as ever, and I don't know where or why that goes away, because, again, it's just so. I'm just having so much fun just exploring movements and doing different things.
Speaker 2:But I think my you know exploring movements and doing different things, but I think my you know again to to that 40 transition was that filter or saying less is more and really having that awareness like, yeah, probably, especially in the gym, don't need to do that extra rep if my goal is to throw farther or have more. I just look at that like we're not, hopefully, walking on a tightrope, but it's more of like a sidewalk rather than a a big open road or something where you know, walk on the sidewalk, you. You can't just be, um, that like there's going to be some things that, uh, you can't drift off as as much. I think it's just tighter awareness. But it's not that hard to walk on the sidewalk.
Speaker 2:Just stay off your cell phone and you know, don't, don't drink too much, and just get all wild and crazy. Like just walk down the. The sidewalk is more of the way I look at it. Now, instead of this big, you know open road or or forks in the road, we can go all these different ways. It's like like, uh, I think you guys had dan john, if I saw yep coach john was amazing.
Speaker 2:I love that guy yeah, he's been a I could go on about that, especially in my earlier years and before, like you said, the influencers and the information out there. He was putting out just things that really resonated with me and being whatever he is 15 years older, a little bit more yeah, he's. What did he say? He's like 60.
Speaker 1:Did he say he was 65?
Speaker 2:He's about 10 years old. Yeah, that sounds right.
Speaker 1:But you know he's funny, because you know you are clearly like spiritual kin with him, because one of the reasons I wanted to have him on. There is. He is simple and efficient. Like when I was looking to restart lifting as a master's athlete, I looked to him like mass made simple was hey, here's six movements, do them. Do them well when you. Hey, here's six movements, do them, do them well.
Speaker 1:when you get good at them, do them a little heavier I mean right, you could almost boil down his entire book to that and exactly, you know, and I think with you and you've blinded yourself to this. Um, just keep moving would would be something I would see from you, because and you know, the more people we talk to in this space, I mean you have medical doctors telling my, you know, my contemporaries, you know, I know you used to lift, but maybe you need to start taking it easier on yourself. And that just feels like the worst advice ever. Oh, it's so counterintuitive, you know.
Speaker 3:I think one of the things that when john and I talk and you said it, and you said it so realistically was just move and have fun doing it. Do something you want to do, be passionate about it. You are passionate about having fun and enjoying life, and if we can get people to start doing that, especially at that master's athlete level, I think that's the step that we need to really advocate with people. You know, john and I talk all the time, just get up, take a 10 minute walk, okay, yep, yep, you've done that cool. What do you want to do? You know, I mean, john, it's pickleball me oh who had uh?
Speaker 3:who had scott pickleball at 29 minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 29 minutes.
Speaker 3:In we mentioned pickleball okay we haven't mentioned cheetos yet, so now we got cheetos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, but it's in the right in the right, dose in the right you know prerequisite. That's my clinical brain kicking on and saying, okay, well, look at the injury rates of pickleball.
Speaker 2:Or look at you know, what, what fits for your lifestyle? And like, like you guys said to all of us, just, are we enjoying checking in with ourselves? Are we enjoying this? I'm not always enjoying the process, of course, too, like my training session today with the cold and wet and that, but I I hit, you know I went in there with intention and I've this is part of my newer training, whatever I say more in-depth approach to like writing this up, like taking what I already do, maybe more naturally, which I think a lot of coaches don't realize are experienced athletes, and just like reverse engineering and really putting it on paper for other people to be able to use. And sometimes it just seems so silly, like, like, of course, I think everybody does this, and then the people are like, wow, that was a big takeaway for me. I'm like, okay, I should keep putting this out there.
Speaker 2:And if some people which sometimes happens too in some of my clinics I teach and that people say, oh, I felt like I already knew so much of that stuff, but it's like, are you really using it?
Speaker 3:Are you really?
Speaker 2:consistently doing that, and that's what I call my superpowers. Just enough of that. Just super consistent, that I just I just can't imagine not doing it that way too.
Speaker 1:That's, that's my way of life that's that influencer culture that exists right now, where you need to. You need to have your brand, and your brand includes some wacky ass movement that no one else like. You need to reinvent the wheel to make it your wheel, um, and like it's just it's. It's so bonkers when it really comes down to like. I guess that you know one of the takeaways I'm going to get from you is do something. Do something enjoyable, I think, like that's the subtext of do something do something that's enjoyable.
Speaker 1:Have fun doing it yeah because, yeah, because I come, I think you do as well. I mean, I had a pretty strong track and field background. I did it in college. I was national champion as a master, which I had to mention. I don't know who had that in the ego moment.
Speaker 1:But track and field is super prescriptive, right, it just it's very rigid and part of the attraction of highland was hey, we are a bunch of people in a field throwing rocks. There are there's 20 ways to skin this cat and if you start to take it too seriously, you know, and I took it seriously, but still look around, we are in a field throwing rocks.
Speaker 2:Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa, whoa, yes, sir, yes sir, you took it seriously.
Speaker 1:Well, seriously for me. How's that?
Speaker 3:that's a funny yeah man, the stories I got. Yeah, I know I know all right.
Speaker 1:So, john, one of the reasons I asked you on is I feel like you're incredibly passionate about, you know, and I think we led with longevity, health, span, lifespan, yeah, being mobile when you're old and gray and full of sleep. Um, what, what, what things are you doing right now? Because I feel like you're very forward thinking what are you doing right now? To ensure that at 65 we could have the same conversation, and you'd be like, yeah, I did some barefoot shit out on a, on the, out on the deck in the snow.
Speaker 2:Exactly, yeah, I do really think beyond that, or the I forget what Peter called it like backcasting, I think.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 2:He says in there. I like that too. And again, a lot of that is just so innate and, like I mentioned in the beginning, I wanted to make sure, like, give that credit where I was working with such limited populations and didn't didn't necessarily go to school or love doing it at the time, like these, these people are salt of the earth. That just just uh, honest, look at people and I just can started to realize I can see that and it's just like um with you know, unfortunately my parents are just aging folks and some of my friends and colleagues in the, in the games I won't pick on the name, names, but it's just like a lot of they can speak that or they can talk. Oh yeah, I want to be competing, I want to this longevity and then, um, you know, my, my goal, being to your point, really is I want to do at least one games, one competition, and be healthy doing it. Uh, at least one for the rest of my life, you know, until the, the last last year of my life, whatever that happens to be. But, um, I guess take takeaways, like, specifically, what you're asking is, you know, I guess I could give percentages. I've been trying to quantify this a little bit as much as I am I. I can be very analytical, but I think that the creative side has got to come out a little bit more now. As a small business owner and I'm not so protocol driven I'm always going to look at the science, I'm always going to keep up on things, but then I can take that and, I think, have a clearer lens and filter and and awareness, and having a wife that's right there along with me and and clients, I can, uh, you know, sort of battle, test them, some things or or pressure tests and things I'm going to call it that. Um, that helps too. So they and I know I like they, I joke and say hey, you know, I think this is going to work or this is, we're going to listen to our bodies and do these parameters. And a lot of them, you know all of them would say yes, you know, your, your, your first do no harm is is that, is that guy? What can I do to not? You know, just jokingly, you know not, don't die doing it and don't just force into this, this place and check in.
Speaker 2:If you've been having a nagging shoulder back, I have a lot of um, chronic back. You know, grade three, um, degenerative disease, blah, blah, blah. I've I've had a lot of back pain since high school and I could go off on that too High school shoulder back pain, just not being able to bench press for years and years. And it's like you know, with the bench press specifically, do I want to do that movement? I guess enough of me just decided hey, I haven't been able to do this without pain and I'm just super proud of being able to to bench press now a full, you know, training block, even just recently, um, nowhere near the strength I'd like to be, but I'm just proud to be able to do that lift. And, of course, you know, compete pain free.
Speaker 2:But it's a lot more, just condensed quality enough, variety and variety. And you know just everything from like choosing the right footwear, the right conditions, the right, you know, like I was talking about kind of quantifying it. I would say like 20 of the time it should just be like unscripted play or something semi. I really, you know if I'm being honest, I'm always intentional with something, even if it's a, if it's play, it's kind of funny to be like an oxymoron. But enough of that. Let's just go out and move our body and like whatever comes to mind, and the more you use that, it's like. I look at it like a language and moving as a language or a movement, linguist or whatever you want to call that.
Speaker 1:Maybe there's a new there you go and catchy instagram thing from that I don't know, get your business cards printed now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, movement linguist yeah, go, go, go, play express movement, and I'm sure you guys get this. It's so obvious, it's like people forgot to do it, so it's like a dan john quote. I think this works so well. I stopped doing it like move your body in every different way within reason, at least on a weekly basis. If we don't reach overhead and train some way overhead or squat deep and roll, you know, get on the ground and get up off the ground in different ways, like that pattern gets rusty. The brain doesn't trust the you know body to to cash that check as well and you know, just just, things like that are just so easy, like once you feel that I just I know that's going to carry me into that. If you're paying attention to what the elders are doing, whether they're five years older than you or, you know, 50 years older, whatever too, I guess 50 is a 95-year-old math for me. I've got to watch out.
Speaker 3:But I think that's where, you know. A couple of things came to mind here when you were saying that. I think that's where, when you look at those that are, you know, octogenarians and they're doing Tai Chi in the park versus you know when, oh, I don't feel like it. Today, I'm going to take today off, and then tomorrow, well, I just put in 14 hours at work and then you find yourself at the end of the week when you haven't put a week in and you haven't done anything and you can't bend over and pick something up off the ground or you can't reach up and grab something off of the shelf without that. You know that major pain versus that little, sure and old. It hurts a little bit, okay, it's gonna hurt a little bit, yeah, and I think I think john touched upon something that we say, but in a much more elegant way.
Speaker 1:We just say you know, just move, just do something, definitely you're. You said like, understanding you have limits doesn't limit you. You know, I mean working within your limits. I, I think we're still suffering from, you know, the residuals of, you know schwarzeneggers and psychopathic bodybuilding. Where you know you need to, you need to murder yourself in the gym to get any benefit. You need to walk out unable to walk and you know I was there. I mean, I think we all we've all done that.
Speaker 1:I think there are times now yeah but if you want to live to 100, you know, and be able to move, you just need to move right, like you said you, you mentioned something to me that resonates, you know. You mentioned something that resonated to me. Um, if you don't lift overhead, you know you're going to lose the ability to lift overhead. Um, you don't need to lift. You know you don't need to lift a car overhead, but you know you're going to lose the ability to lift overhead. Um, you don't need to lift.
Speaker 1:You know you don't need to lift a car overhead, but you know even if it's just a matter of a stretchy band overhead, yeah it's a something and that's I. I feel like that's one of the lessons that I think we're relearning as and I don't even want to use the word athletes, because it's just anybody that wants to be athletic with their body, you know, know this whole body linguist thing that we've just discovered.
Speaker 2:I just it's like the Bill Bowerman quote, I just bought into that If you have a body, you're an athlete, and my wife would tell you that too, like I told her she was. You know the other side of this too. She was my client, you know, my top client for many years, and I married my client, which I had never dated clients. I broke up with her.
Speaker 3:Oh man, you crossed the street, oh boy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the whole truth.
Speaker 2:She loved that. I said she was an athlete on that you know. More serious note too, like I looked in the eye I don't even remember it that well, but she's like you changed that. And now saying that to our kids, who are 13 and 16 and not, let's say, driven towards athletics, naturally, but they're very dedicated. I could talk all day about them and brag about them, but they're just doing just very easy, consistent, very consistent. We're getting out and moving with them and it's like you know crazy how that works.
Speaker 2:When you're consistent, you do just reasonable, quality work, you have some intention to it. But then we put some play in there and they, at least they tell us they don't, they don't mind coming down there and train or they're not walking away Like I gotta go, I gotta get out of here, like, oh, I guess we're done, like, yeah, you guys are good, like go, go play, do something else, you know. So it's just at all ages, right, and we see how, yeah, how much our youth are really struggling with that sense of how to even play again, and that just is a crazy thought for me too. So it's just, you know, just allowing that space, allowing that time, I guess that's the first thing I'd say allow a little extra time, and I don't, you know, for me, having not going into a commercial gym anymore, that has saved me, I guess, if I think about it that way too, because I was very concerned with how much weight I had on the bar, other people watching me, the social aspects were good in a lot of ways too. But if I think about it that way, I haven't I kind of forgot about that too. Training on my own, I'm in my own little world and, of course, checking in and making sure and again having some other coaching eyes on things.
Speaker 2:I'm always, you know, curious enough and willing to learn, willing to be, you know, aware of some things that are taking me down the wrong direction too, but that's a great point too. Between the too, but that's a great point too between the, you know, right, right at that 40 point to 40, 45 now too. It's just just that, that sense of awareness and willingness to say, you know again, that I, that I can make make some shifts and enjoy, like I was just gonna gonna share something along those lines too on my media channel with like what if we took jumping, you know, or sprinting, and that as serious as we took our lifting. I know that doesn't fit, especially a you know 300 pound guy or an average Highland games athlete at any age. They cringe at that. I do get that.
Speaker 2:I've had enough of those days but thankfully, you know, we can play to our strengths. We don't. You can be more of a lifter. You can do stone lifting, like for me. It just doesn't appeal to me as much and I know if I just keep grinding away at the stones, for example, it's not going to help my throwing to an end point and I feel more achy and sore and I'm just more bound up. I'm not as light on my feet or, like you said, with aches and pains. I've definitely had those days and they're mostly gone. Knock on, knock on wood, I get. I use that as my litmus test, my baseline how do I feel first thing in the morning? Because that's a great indicator. Getting down and moving, um, and that's my big takeaway hopefully no that's fine.
Speaker 1:I don't. I don't know that. It's how I feel in the morning. It's typically how I sound, because there's usually seven levels of groan two pops and a crack.
Speaker 1:John is a walking Rice Krispies, but you know, as you were talking, all I could think of, like I have some very strong contemporary friends. So you know, 55 and above. I probably know a dozen elite strength level humans. I probably know a dozen elite strength level humans. If we, if I, were to line them up and have a standing jump contest, I think some of them might cry Like I because that's not a thing, right Like it's not a like to to load your leg, explode and then to especially softly land.
Speaker 1:That is that is not a movement that people are doing all right to john's point.
Speaker 3:Right now he I'm 54 and it's funny. You said you know the average 300 pound guy and you said that he looks at me and I raise my hand because I go a little above, a little below, depending on the day. Sure, probably last year, I think it was. It might have been early last year we were doing something and it was. Uh, sundays at the, at the compound, are normally like um, old man grind type of days so he had me take a hex bar, I did oh yeah two squats and then two box jumps and it's not something you do now.
Speaker 3:I mean vertically I can do okay. Distance, yeah, no, if I'm leaning forward I'm going to cover some distance, but that's just because the body's going to follow the six feet that I am. But you know, you're right, we don't do those types of things we've got, like this year's nationals coming up is one of the events is bag over, uh, bag for height oh, scott, are you competing in the strongman nationals coming up in june, june? Wasn't where I was going. Oh no, I just want thank you.
Speaker 1:Yes, I am did you happen to be the silver medalist last year? Awesome okay, I really no, you know what, john? John, honestly, I fill this, I I fill all this data with my bullshit ego. I think Scott needs a shout-out every now and then.
Speaker 3:Scott is the exact opposite of what John does.
Speaker 1:We're going to talk about ourselves, yeah and Scott is incredibly humble and incredibly strong and incredibly driven and, as much as I don't want to admit it, his gas tank is probably pretty great for someone who weighs 300 pounds. So yeah, yeah, when I think about things like making him jump that day it made me, brought him perverse pleasure.
Speaker 3:It made my soul sore um, yeah, yeah because but I mean for sure the, the events in strongman now and you see this if you're looking at your local competitions all the way up to like World's Strongest man, they're gas tank events. Now there's fewer and fewer pure strength things, and where I was, going was like this year's nationals. One of the events is three bags to 16 feet for time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So you've got to have that extension. I mean, that's where our Highland background is going to come into, to helpful. But you don't see those things. You don't see that sort of crossover as much as you should, and I think you're on to something there, as reticent as I am to say it. 300 pounds.
Speaker 1:Did you say reticent?
Speaker 3:I did say reticent, thank, you yeah, I'm whipping those
Speaker 1:big words out on you.
Speaker 3:You just elevated this whole thing, yeah you know that idea of we got to do a little more, we've got to run a little bit more, we've got to do some more of that. You know triple extension, jump, ball slams. You know we do a thing where we'll take. You take a sandbag, oh yeah, you take a sandbag, put it over the yoke, push the yoke and repeat for 60 feet. You know that type of goofy stuff. That's horrible.
Speaker 2:And it's and to do it in in training again. You guys get this too like what if I do it with again intention and time and loading and but and that's what I have a hard time with strongman in the competition side. It's like I'm still wanting to be so safe in the midst of competition with the yoke on my back and like brain like get me to go faster. And sometimes in like running with a caber, like come on, we can. You know, we've been, we don't want to be too safe. Now's not the time we like we're, we're pushing the gas pedal now. So it's kind of funny when you realize like, oh, my body just and body and mind just sometimes don't want to go there as much and it's, it's, you know, it served me well overall, but it's still like oh, let's, where's that extra gear? I don't know if you guys feel that too, like I had that extra gear when I was 30.
Speaker 2:It's like this adrenaline tank. I could just like squeeze something out of that gland and just get it to like milk it or something. It would just go. And now it's like oh well, maybe you're okay. Let's just you know, it's been a long day. I'm kind of tired like, oh, let's you know still go. So I have, you know, all those battles within me still too. It's like you'd think after so many years it would just be like you know, push play, let's just automate this nope, and I mean.
Speaker 1:The reality is I was gifted to train with a very, very, very high level strength coach for about a year year and a half. And he just said something to me that didn't really stick then but resonates now. You basically lose 10% a decade. You just do, and it's maybe not fall on the 30, 40, 50, 60, but I've seen it, you know cause.
Speaker 1:I, you know as much as I still get after it, and you know, I, I feel like I'm, you know, not the worst person in the room when it comes to health and fitness. I'm, I'm not who. I was at 30 and I, I couldn't be. I just absolutely still couldn't be.
Speaker 2:And you guys know this too, just for people to realize like you're going to, for this is just the facts about power. Strength is gonna go second and then the endurance, so that muscle endurance side of things, and then, of course, we can do more efficient and all those other things I've touched on. So I, you know, I've studied it to a maybe, to a fault and and really like, okay, we're coming on 40, these all these changes are going to happen, but you know, even the even dietary side of things.
Speaker 2:It's just way easier to be consistent. Again, I have my wife to thank for that, my family. I've just set my lifestyle up to be very clear and down, but to your point too. Like I'm still, you know, fighting to get back to those numbers, I'm not hitting lifetime pr, isn't it? You know that's to each their own. Some people are somehow able to do that. I try not to overly speculate how, how you're hitting you know lifetime cures in your later forties but that's another, another, uh rabbit hole too, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. But you know, doc, my, my, my testosterone is a little low.
Speaker 2:So could I, could I have 900 units a day, please.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's normal, right, so, and then they'll still. People will still not. You know it's like you can't out, train a bad diet, or you could probably. You know all the, all the help in the world and you're still gonna be like. You guys have seen that, heard that too over the years. I remember like, yeah, you might have a big year, an athlete might have a big year or two, but then they're gonna crash and burn. Things are not gonna out. You don't see the staying power, that longevity for years and years and years without a lot of things done right over. You know a long period of time. So that's, you know. That's just what it comes down to too, and just you know all those things you guys mentioned too. It's great.
Speaker 3:So you hit on a couple of things there and I want to take us, you know, in a little bit of a new direction. You talked about diet. We've covered diet in chunks and bits and blobs throughout. You know the podcast that we've done thus far. And it's funny because you said you cannot train a bad diet or you cannot perform a bad diet. And I look over at someone I consider one of my dearest friends and yeah, john's looking around because he knows where this is going.
Speaker 1:Is there someone else here?
Speaker 3:We've you know, in arm lifting, in grip competition, john tries to get down to certain weights. And so he has, in his fog-induced mind, think that he has mastered how to weight cut. Well, he weight cuts and he's got to lose. Yeah, he needs to cut maybe a kilo, so a little over two pounds, right? Oh yeah, so he's got to come in at 242 pounds. Well, that's great, but then he'll come in at like 233, because he's cut 12 pounds.
Speaker 1:Yeah I'm an overachiever. Yeah, you're an overachiever, because I'm horrible. And then he opens up the feed because I'm horrible he opens up this bag that, without exaggeration, will have 20 000 calories in it because I'm horrible and it's not good calorie it's like there's
Speaker 3:nutty buddies, and there's cinnamon rolls, and there's those blueberry muffins that are the size of an elephant's fist.
Speaker 1:You know, I mean yeah, no, I'm horrible at it. And you know why I'm horrible at it, john? Because really, the only resources for for weight cutting unless you know, like, have a personal relationship with somebody that knows how to do it well is like these mma guys or power lifters that you know. Like, have a personal relationship with somebody that knows how to do it well is like these mma guys or power lifters that you know, people that have weight classes and the mma guys. It is always like they cut down three weight classes, weigh in and then balloon up. So I mean that that's what the model is and I'm horrible at it.
Speaker 2:Um, and and that I that's, I appreciate it that's terrible it's, it was rough on my body.
Speaker 1:I won't do it again. I try to walk around a lot leaner. Um now, just because I learned my lesson. And you know, I don't want to say I almost died, because I've been known to be too dramatic, but I almost died.
Speaker 3:You were perseverating in your room, dude. You called us when we were at dinner and you were crying.
Speaker 1:I was a little bit, but you know, here's the thing I don't want to gloss over um, because I suspect this is a whole can of worms with you that I really want to, really want to learn about what's your diet? What's your diet like? I bet you your diet is is either you're only eating pine cones or at least it's it's very, it's very mindful.
Speaker 2:I bet right, because everything I feel like you do is pretty mindful yeah, I go and research, research to no end, and then I talk to people and I start, you know, experimenting, whatever I call it. And, uh, you know, find, find that balance is a boring word, I guess too. But find, find a balance for that period or that fits that goal, and I watch you know, again, my medical side of me, like you know this this more I check my blood pressure a few times a week. I get my labs done twice a year at least. So I want to face the music.
Speaker 2:I think that's a huge thing too that people don't realize. Or even getting on the scale. I could tell you so many stories of patients who get on a scale. I'm like, oh yeah, last time I weighed I was two, 200. I think I'm about 200. And of course they're like, eh, when was the last time you weighed? Well, it's been a while and it's 225 or 230. I'm like, oh, the scale's got not and seeing that shift again, that could be a whole, whole podcast in itself. But, um, so I if I hate labels on it, but it's again very I've used systems.
Speaker 2:I've been trained in systems from like precision nutrition and there's it's a newer guy I've kind of latched on to a little bit trevor, cashy, nutrition and and it's all this habit-based um way of doing again the boring side. There's no, no secrets. And it's all this habit based way of doing things Again the boring side. There's no secrets and it's just setting up the whole lifestyle that way. And I do eat a high protein, high meat, if you want to call it. I call it more animal based and I decided to become a bow hunter and harvest as much of my own meat as I can, so it's all local source stuff. I'm fortunate in this kind of area in Central Oregon where we can get really good quality, you know, more local food sources.
Speaker 2:I'm not a huge, you know. I want to go deeper into that. I could again go on and on about that too, with really, like you know, raising my own, all different foods, but I eat a decent amount of berries, some vegetable as much, as you know some people. Just talking to people that you know a friend that's a vegan the other day and realizing, like people don't, even if they're on you know a vegan or vegetarian my wife was was laughing at that too like doesn't that mean, um, lots of vegetables and plants and that like plant-based um so people will. You know we all find shortcuts. Like you know, I love a good beer. I used to joke more about that on my social. Like I love, I love all the food.
Speaker 2:Like I'm a fat kid in a normal person body but, I, just have this ability, I guess again, I guess we'll just call it more innate or something too. It's just like that way of life just overpowers everything else and it's just not a big deal. But I eat, you know, I eat organs. I eat all the. You call me like liver King before, before and after liver King.
Speaker 2:I just enjoy enough of all that, all that stuff, cause it just makes sense. There's all you know the nutrients are in all these foods and I, you know, do a decent, very modest, like supplementation side of things. I will, you know, fully admit, like I've tried every, every you know natural supplement on the on the planet kind of thing too. Yeah, um, and used to work in the nutrition side of things and that was part of my degree program. My minor was in nutrition. I was fascinated, or still am, with nutrition side of things too, although I don't love to coach it because it is such a sticky uh area and such a deep belief. But I'll, you know, coach on those principles and look at habits and dig, try to dig deeper, get into the you know the feelings of things with, especially with men.
Speaker 2:That's a that's a harder topic, but it's like I've been able to basically make it easier than ever to just maintain my body weight, having my wife and kids on board, having a family affair, crazy stuff. We cook our meal, our mostly home-cooked meals, and we all take turns cooking and going to the grocery store and actually paying attention, sitting at the dinner table and having dinner as a family. It's a more European, italian kind of way of eating. We really enjoy our food and, you know, it's just as much locally sourced and organic food as possible, but then again, like on the weekend or tomorrow night my you know date night I'll eat whatever the heck I want. It really doesn't, you know.
Speaker 2:Know, I don't stress about it and I'm just like boom right back on the oh, that's right, and it's after a hard, hard training day like tomorrow's my big training day, so I feel like I've, you know, earned those carbs, or yeah, whatever too. It's just not a big deal yeah, I forgot tomorrow's date night.
Speaker 1:Do you want me to wear a dress or slacks? What?
Speaker 3:and what time do you want me to come over um?
Speaker 2:yeah there's a loaded picture. No, but seriously, there's a picture I don't want in my head. You're welcome.
Speaker 1:You're welcome, I look great in a dress whatever. Have you seen my calves, but the one? Thing John is as we talk to more and more people on this podcast. The one thing I'm seeing is that a huge barrier to health is if the family isn't necessarily at least on board. I mean, they don't have to necessarily, you know, subscribe to everything you do, but but if they're doing the opposite or disregard what you're doing, uh, you are fighting a monstrous uphill battle that almost nobody wins, um yeah, so I I applaud that.
Speaker 1:So I'm not gonna let you go away from diet too much because again, I think you have it dialed in. I mean, I am a career scientist. I think a lot of the things you say I've done the same thing. I read everything, I've researched everything. I try to at least understand what I'm doing to my stupid body. Pick a day of I don't know recently. What do you eat in a day? Tell me about.
Speaker 2:Tell me about the oh, that's a fun one, yeah yeah. So you know, morning it sometimes depends on what's, what's there for leftover, so I'll throw some portion of meat salmon. I eat a lot of beef, a lot of elk, you know, being a hunter too, and harvesting my own meats is great. Sometimes, liver in the morning, my wife gives me maybe extra credit and cringes at the same time too when it's like here's my liver and we do a lot of eggs, a lot of whole eggs, of course too, nothing. We're full fat people. Um, everything from. You know, bacon, grease or it could you know it could be bacon on a on a oh, I think scott.
Speaker 1:scott just smiled and a tear fell down his eye when you said bacon grease.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy We've just gone like it's almost too far. Maybe for the kids we're like we create these carnivore monsters or something where they're willing to eat ground beef at every meal or something. It's like, wow, this worked too well or something, so it could just be ground beef or throwing that all in a mix there, depending on the training goal or days. Like you know, right now I'm shifting into making weight next week for the Sherman Games down there in Texas, so I'll have like a, maybe like a kimchi or some kind of fermented foods in there, like a little bit of that crunch, and I guess I've adopted adapted enough to eating a handful of vegetables or something left over and just cooking. You know the, the common thing with just the leftovers planned and over stuff. We're cooking bigger portions and working on doing even more of that. So we're doing that for the the whole week. So you have, you know, something you can throw on the on the plate that way too. And again, depending on how my training is looking like that day, I will will throw a carb in there. I'm just really easy with my carbs, just basically no, no gluten. So I love my like sourdough, like real, you know, earthy, natural sourdough bread, and I'll throw a little jam on that if I'm in in that kind of training block or it could be rice or sweet potatoes, something in that realm. Just a very small portion, very, you know, like the little Asian small handful cup of of rice or something too. So it's very small, small portion. I'm not a, I'm like a farmer. Nowadays my wife laughs at me and just like, why are you not eating wine? Why do you keep going all day? And it's just, I'll do my, you know, post.
Speaker 2:If it's a training, training day, which I another another topic on the training side, I like to train more frequently and do those skill practices and even the two-way days, but it's very short training sessions. It could be a skill, you know, highland games portion for 25, 30 minutes and then I'll my lifting could still work. It's getting harder to do that. I'm finding I'm more, more fatigued, and that's another, you know again, deeper topic. But doing my post-workout, doing like right now I'm having some bone, bone broth, um, you know just that holistic stuff. And um, you know, I'll throw in a little bit of much as I'm kind of shifted away from some of the green stuff I'll throw in uh, um, right now I'm using. I think it's paleo valley greens. I'll throw my creatine in there. Um, I like honey, like honey pre-workout and stuff like that too. Just natural local honey and stuff like that. I'll do a little, a very minimal caffeine, or I'll just do straight straight caffeine for my pre-workout.
Speaker 1:I think all the pre-workout drinks and crap. Yeah, you lost me. I'm sorry. I don't have many vices these days, but the whole bottom shelf of my refrigerator is a variety of caffeine chemical in cans with caffeine and I like those too.
Speaker 2:It's like once, once a week. I'll give myself one of those I have one, like once a week tomorrow.
Speaker 2:I was like, I was like I wanted, I wanted one, this, you know, today before training, and I'm like, yeah, I don't, I don't need it. I'm just, you know, I don't even take ibuprofen or any anything, anything that's you know, from a chemical bottle or prescription. It's really awesome to be able to say that. But again, it's been it's step-by-step, it's been been that process. And then just to touch on dinner, I guess to dinner would be another big, big carnivore based, you know, meat based meal. Um, I love my big steak. I'm a huge, huge, big juicy steak. You know, guy, I can do three pound burgers Like I can. I can hang with the you know the best of them kind of thing too. And I do, again, watch my cholesterol, watch all the variables.
Speaker 2:I feel great after I eat a big, you know, meat, uh, meat meal, that way too, and um kind of thing. It's just rice or a little bit of um, sweet potato or kind of our go-to's there. Sometimes we'll mix in a little bit, I don't, you know the pastas and all that stuff just doesn't, doesn't really do it for me. We don't combine, we just have separate ingredients and each person can take their own portion of that rather than kind of the mishmash of stuff. And then I do get a little bit of cravings in the in the evening, but usually it's just like one of my show chews is like pork rinds with a little bit of avocado in there and or like sunflower seeds or something. I'm just something's got a little crunch, a little whatever, and my wife's even. You know way better than I am with that the curse superpower. But we like our good, good beers honestly, honestly.
Speaker 1:We live in Oregon, so you guys are like the original.
Speaker 2:I guess Right.
Speaker 1:I have to bail on date night Cause I think Scott wants to go. If you're going out to dinner because your, your eating is, I mean, he may be even less vegetable and more, or at least less carb, but he, he's as dialed in and I think my, my contribution to this space is I have a very boring menu in which I bet you there's eight things that I eat.
Speaker 1:Sure that's okay though, during the week, and it's not because I don't like things, it's just I've gotten to the place where it's dialed in. I treat food these days a lot more like fuel, as recreation and or enjoyment. And again, like you like your beer every now and then I need a burrito. I just I need a burrito every now and then.
Speaker 2:yeah, mine used to be pizza, like yeah, it was like I'm gonna put out as much pizza as I want and I, I don't know, maybe I'm I just just grew out of that.
Speaker 2:I guess, too, my wife just doesn't care about that stuff as much, so that helps it's not just right in front of me being thrown, they're out there and again just not having it in the house. Crazy idea too. So I, I like and you're, you're. You know that whole like um, like a mark zuckerberg kind of thing, like wearing the same shirt every day, like less decisions we have to make. There's definitely something to that, you know, and we can break that. You can break that up and like well, let's bring in whatever food for a while. I'm enjoying that, just like the training stuff, like there's some playfulness, there's some room for um, playing, you know, playing around and uh, going out and eating, giving yourself permission, you know, again, like my saturday night, knowing that that's coming up, I'm, I'm like great, and usually I'll just self, naturally self-regulate, i'm'm full, I'm ready to have another beer or something.
Speaker 1:That's just because you're old. You're just full because you're old and you're eating dinner at 4.30 and you're splitting a meal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's just because you're old.
Speaker 1:That's fine Supplementation. I heard creatine, anything else.
Speaker 2:Oh, creatine magnesium, I still do my fish oils Again I'll, again I'll throw in like one you know crazy idea, more scientific method. Throw in one. One thing Don't take three new herbs or something so kind of dabble with, like the ashwagandha and the um, you know that side of like the adaptogenic herbs, yeah.
Speaker 1:Have you, have you seen anything from that? Because we, scott and I, competed at the Arnold and there was a company that had a monstrous ashwagandha booth and I got to say, for all the things I look into, I've never really looked into that, do you see?
Speaker 2:anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's something to it, just very subtle, like a little bit better quality sleep, I think, maybe a little mood boost. But it's one of those that's like, yeah, if you took it away from me it wouldn't be that good to you. But I mean, how many supplements have any of us taken, you know, that are over-the-counters, that are like, oh, that makes all the difference in the world. Yeah, that kind of thing. And I guess you know my organ meter. I'll take a. I guess that kind of fell out of favor.
Speaker 2:But I look at all those organs so I'll take a combo of of heart and liver and they're just so full of nutrients so I just, you know, just take that. And then again it's like bringing something in that has enough research to it. Or again, the first do no harm, um, vitamin D, I'm always taken to Um, and that's really like I said, the straight caffeine rather than the drinks. I think there's enough research that, obviously, and it's just one of those obvious performance enhancers and it's a little higher doses than people realize too. It's like for my body weight it's more whatever it was like two, almost like two times per pound of body weight, so it's pretty high.
Speaker 1:It's, you know 400 milligrams, so that gets you zinging pretty good too especially if you're just doing it from like you know no does or you know some, right, yeah, I do the natural brand I just ordered on amazon.
Speaker 2:It's 10. It's 10 bucks for yeah god whatever it is 90. God bless, amazon, god bless, yeah, exactly um, and I, I guess I do my coffee. I do like a. There's a little adaptogenic um blend in that too, and yeah, I'll go through.
Speaker 1:Is that like? Is that like mushroom coffee? Are you doing that kind of thing?
Speaker 2:or it's the, it's layered superfood, oh yeah I'm familiar with. I'm familiar with that layered stuff it was out here, uh, in sisters oregon, which is just like 20 minutes away. So I just I I just drank, you know, tried it once and it was one of those things like wow, this is like too good to be true. And you look at the label and it's like, yeah, 10 calories. So it's like, why, why not?
Speaker 1:it's pretty tasty. It's actually. I actually liked the taste, which I think is a big selling point exactly, but I think that's a lot of supplements is that we have to feel good about it, what it's doing for us.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can look. I mean, like you said, we were just at the arnold and you walk around and there were hundreds of booths where it's try this, try that. Well, if it doesn't do it for me, yeah why the hell am I trying?
Speaker 1:it and I I'm a huge, I'm a huge believer in the placebo effect too, like I will, I will never I will never shit on anybody's belief that whatever they're doing works for them, because you know what? If you think it works for you, it probably does to some level, and that's's, that's fine.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I do. Another thing I guess is more, um, like the uh, trace mineral kind of side of things and just getting enough sodium. I do a ton of salt. I do the Redmond real salt. I just bought a 25 pound bag of real salt.
Speaker 2:I'm like you know, this will, this will last me for a while, and the whole family is just addicted to that stuff too and never read anything bad about it. I, you know, I hate to put all my eggs in one basket with any supplement or food source, right, you never know. Like, oh, I'll suddenly come out and it's full of arsenic or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, you're just checking in with the body every day. How am I, how am I feeling? And you know, how am I really feeling? Am I that you know, willing to die on this? Yeah, uh, things, and that's again the social media and the polarity of things that we could go on about. It's so. It's often, you know, out of context, just a short little blurb in there and people feel like they need to be, or maybe do need to be, to be, to sell this, that and whatever, uh, their beliefs, by just pushing something. So, absolutely, you know there's, there's not like not like other options.
Speaker 2:This is, this is the way and this is that.
Speaker 1:Gets hard to swallow but it's funny, like everything every, everything you are old enough to realize that everything you mentioned has come back around like salt oh my god salt organ meats like red meat, not like whole eggs.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, now it's for a different way you're not. You're not eating like potatoes, you know it's like usually yeah, I love again, I love it, love it all. But and then you know it's like jack o'lanterns if it tastes good, spit it out, or if it's not enjoying the damn meal like stop eating no, you know, you don't have to be an asshole and keep eating. You know, just I'm talking like to myself. Even you know, I don't need to keep eating this just because it's on my plate and you know, we've really just set our lifestyles up that way too.
Speaker 2:So unfortunately there's no. And I kind of hate the word hack too, because like what kind of way can we, you know, treat the, the symptoms of this and just patch something up and then not actually deal with our own? Yeah, you know, exactly lifestyle flow of things or what, what we're doing in these repeated patterns. How do we break that? I'm just kind of obsessed with that. You know habit-based stuff and and love that topic and it's all too well as we start to tail off here.
Speaker 1:The one thing that I think you were pretty passionate about in some of the setting up today's podcast was you wanted to speak to optimal body weight, and, oh sure, I don't think I know anything about that, other than when I was talking to coach dan john, he mentioned something about you know eating for your circumference and your height yeah height like that what that was his sort of metric for that?
Speaker 1:uh, where where do you fall on this optimal body weight and how you know? Tell me what, what you are so passionate about and what you think the message that clearly is probably being lost on the, you know, the average athlete.
Speaker 2:Well, not to to to hijack that too, but I that's a, that's a great one and and we were doing that in the, in the clinic, years ago and thankfully, you know it's like they would pay me to spend time geeking out and researching this. I, thankfully, you know it's like they would pay me to spend time geeking out and researching this. So I didn't realize, like how good I had it to be on the clock and you know I wasn't, you know, doing all the, all the things I loved all the time. Like they're they want me to do this for this employee wellness talk or this cardiac rehab talk. So I got to dig into all this data and finding those inflection points and everything too. It's like there's some really obvious stuff and I there's some really obvious stuff and I'm sure it's still true. I haven't looked as closely at it, people want to fact check they can.
Speaker 1:I'd love to hear the other side too. No, it's a podcast with a couple of bald old men. Facts are nebulous here.
Speaker 2:Irrelevant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at best. Yeah just talking, yeah, basically.
Speaker 2:But it was like, right at that 32 BMI. As much as people knock on the BMI, try that 32 BMI as much as people knock on the BMI. It's just like that's just a height to weight. Or to Dan Don's point too, I do really like that. Looking at it's half of your, whatever your height is, that's what your true waistline I hate to use the word should, but it's just this inflection point there's a big shift right there and you know we could look at every factor from injury wise to.
Speaker 2:You know, cognitive decline and I'm sure Peter talks about that in his book one or another too but, and yes, definitely more strength and more capability. I totally agree. I see guys like again getting into more backcountry hunting, guys that can just go all day, that are much heavier than me. I mean guys that can just go all day that are much heavier than me, and I use that a bit even, you know, ironically, at my weight I walk around no more than 215, at 62 nowadays. Ok, and that's been great all around for me. But depending on what I'm doing I could shift a little bit leaner, but I don't have much. You know it's funny to say, but the body fat I don't have the body fat to lose, like that is me walking around. I haven't haven't tested it for a long time, besides on calipers, but I'm you know, you know about 8% every you know year round kind of thing, and that's, I guess, amazing to say and do that.
Speaker 2:But you know, I guess, to your you know kind of wrapping, you know I guess to your um, you know kind of wrapping, wrapping up into that too, just just those um, like you said too, you know, if you're honest with yourself. And again, we could look at labs, blood pressure, like how is that treating you? And that was my story with turn, like turning myself into a lightweight. I was, and I'm probably, I think, the first one to go from pro to lightweight class and there was a bit of controversy over over doing that too. They didn't want to let me into the first year of nationals or worlds when it was still or it was becoming 200 pounds, and that was what kind of shifted me. I'm like I'm not a one 90 guy, but I can definitely make 200. And I'd love to talk more about the weight cutting side of things and that's actually inspiring for me to put out another.
Speaker 2:YouTube topic on that too, how to do it.
Speaker 1:And I have, I have found a really good system. Oh good, I endorse it.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what it is and it's got to be better than whatever bullshit I did. And, and on that side of things with feet, if it works with females, if you can, if you can work it with the female metabolism and they're not suffering, I think that really says a lot too. But yeah, I guess that's the easy answers. You know that feeling and and the labs, plus the you know certain waistline, and I was just reading, if you guys have have read or seen, um, uh, old book from Brooks Brooks Kubrick, uh, dinosaur training, uh, he had talked about the old um, it's worth, worth, uh, worth looking at.
Speaker 2:It's a little harder. You know the the text is really small and all that too, and I don't are you saying I was gonna say I have cheaters on right now for no? Reason because I forgot they're on my face, so that's funny, but um, he talked about I forget what the old time strongman was with. You know those guys, and before drugs before there was influence those guys were generally a lot smaller. You look at, you know, it was down at the university of um, Austin, there, uh, Jan Todd and that.
Speaker 3:Oh, looking at what?
Speaker 2:the Stark center? Yeah, it's a beautiful place. Highly recommend that. That was after masters rose in 21 and highly recommend that I could, you know, spend. You know that's hysterical.
Speaker 1:We have a friend in arm lifting that's really big also into arm wrestling and he just totally geeked out. He told us all about how beautiful that library is and just the breadth and depth of going way back in strength sports.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's all in there.
Speaker 1:And just so you know you, you inspired me. Now you know who I'm gonna try to track down for a podcast episode an elk hunter. Because okay, I have a weird I have a weird fascination with steve ranella because you know he very casually will say something like oh, yeah. So I had to hike eight miles in up this mountain.
Speaker 2:I stood there all day.
Speaker 1:I finally shot, you know, a 700 pound bull. Uh, dressed it at three o'clock in the morning, slept for a bit and then we started hiking out a hundred pound chunks.
Speaker 2:I'm like you know, if that was, if that was an Olympic event, you know and that's where you you know again, I could go on and on about that too. That was into my 40s and it's not not trying to knock on that. I've done that side of things too. Where you sit in the tree stand, that's a different kind of energy in that too. But that with the rifle is it's just a different beast, rather than the, the wraps and wraps, and again, I could go off on that. But getting precise with the bow, the, the carryover with the throws and that mindset and those um, precision work, or they talk about like somebody who's a martial artist or a musician, somebody like that could be very good at, potentially at the highland games or something that you're willing to do, that really technical work that most people aren't. You know, and I'm like I get it, you know, like you said, throwing stones in the in the park, like I laugh and I love that too.
Speaker 2:But if I'm being honest, like I love to be, look as good as possible doing it like even if I'm not throwing the farthest, I want to look the best and be that, you know, example of health.
Speaker 1:So and I am I mean, I'm very science-based, for sure, but I still geek out on watching. You know, bert soren shooting 70 yards to see if he can eat that day, or you?
Speaker 2:you know, or and.
Speaker 1:I'm bro enough that you know if Joe Rogan is putting you know 200 arrows a day. Uh, I'm on, I'm on board. That's cool. I don't do it, but I recognize how cool it is, and you know, maybe one of the last things I need to say to you is so many times you've said in this podcast I could go so much deeper into this that we're clearly going to take a breath and have you back sooner than later, because I think I think there's a lot to talk about, especially, you know what, after you put your weight cutting thing out.
Speaker 1:You know, give me a holler and I will look at it and at some point we will talk about it, because we will be other ends of the spectrum and I will be the how not to do it, guy.
Speaker 3:So yeah, we'll have the before and after the two, the two kilos, and basically you could go, basically I will just.
Speaker 1:I will do what I've done to so many of my friends over the years I will make you look good.
Speaker 3:So thank you. Just by comparison, that is john's superpower.
Speaker 1:Yes, you're welcome so I think, john, we're gonna, we we're going to wrap it up. I think this has been amazing. I appreciate your time, as always, with people that I've never really met in life but know from their reputation and their digital footprint. We're your tribe and you're ours, and I love what I've learned from you today. Scott will be over tomorrow slathered in bacon grease, because he's putting it on right now yeah it can be done, yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't understand it, but I support it because again friendship you suck. Thanks again for your time, John. As always on this podcast, my name is still and always will be John and I will forever be Scott. Thanks, John, so much. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you guys.
Speaker 1:It's been an honor. Bye-bye, Bye. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post it on your social media or leave a review. To catch all the latest from us, you can follow us on Instagram at Masters Athlete Survival Guide.